Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing
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Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well, it's the international cover
Speaker 1: story this week. It's about something that we were all
Speaker 1: mesmerized by for one week back in March, when global
Speaker 1: shipping tim came to a halt, when they ever given
Speaker 1: got stuck in the Suez Canal and how it happened.
Speaker 1: That's a story. It's the international cover. And joining us
Speaker 1: now is Joel Weber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week. He
Speaker 1: joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Also
Speaker 1: joining us Kitch chellel senior writer at Bloomberg News, joining
Speaker 1: us on the phone from London, Joel, I learned more
Speaker 1: about shipping and ever Given then I've ever thought I
Speaker 1: could know. When I read this piece, well, uh, you
Speaker 1: know if you everyone, everyone became an expert for a week, right,
Speaker 1: and then the moment that it got dislodged and was
Speaker 1: able to move again, everybody forgot about it. And that's
Speaker 1: exactly when Kit was like, do you want to know everything?
Speaker 1: And I was like, yes, tell me everything. And thus
Speaker 1: began the odyssey to explain not only how they ever
Speaker 1: Given got stuck, but the quagmire that it finds itself in. Now, um, kid,
Speaker 1: there's so much fabulous reporting. Um, can we just start
Speaker 1: with the audio? The the audio from the bridge? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what happened? One of the one of the one of
Speaker 1: the things that got me excited about this story was
Speaker 1: I felt like I didn't still didn't understand how the
Speaker 1: ship had crashed. You know, it's a straight come out,
Speaker 1: It's not technically very challenging. In some ways. It was windy,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's always the Egypt at that time
Speaker 1: of year, so I didn't really understand what was going on. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then we discovered the existence of the v d R,
Speaker 1: which is the voyage data recorder that records all the
Speaker 1: conversations that are held in the bridge of a ship
Speaker 1: like this. So the Egyptian authorities had access to everything
Speaker 1: that happened on the bridge before, during, and after the
Speaker 1: crash and becurse the ship was seized by the ad
Speaker 1: diptional authorities, and because there was an ongoing legal dispute,
Speaker 1: we were starting to get when that some of the
Speaker 1: evidence from from from that transcription from that audio was
Speaker 1: going to emerge, we might find out what called the
Speaker 1: crash and and obviously we didn't get to hear it
Speaker 1: because it's under lark and key in Egypt. But one
Speaker 1: of the things that we learned was that the captain
Speaker 1: actually got conflicting information um and and what how did
Speaker 1: that transpire according to the reporting that you guys were
Speaker 1: able to get. So what we do know about what
Speaker 1: happened on the bridge when the ship crashed was there
Speaker 1: was a chaotic situation. These these pilots had boarded the ship,
Speaker 1: Egyptian pilots whose job it is to steer giant ship
Speaker 1: through the canal. They spoke mainly in Arabit and on
Speaker 1: the bridge. Also was the captain who was an Indian
Speaker 1: gentleman and his crewman who spoke mainly in English, and
Speaker 1: there was this situation where there a dispute emerged about
Speaker 1: whether it was too windy to enter, and then once
Speaker 1: they were inside the canal, how to keep the ship
Speaker 1: on a straight keel, And the argument became quite forceful
Speaker 1: and the pilots threatened to leave. And while all this was,
Speaker 1: while this was going on, but they lost control of
Speaker 1: the vessel and it crashed. So well, what about now?
Speaker 1: Because I think, as Joel said, and I think people
Speaker 1: were obsessed with this story for six days and then
Speaker 1: so many people, like we do with with with big stories,
Speaker 1: I think as as consumers, we move on. And I
Speaker 1: think people were really surprised to find it have been
Speaker 1: really really surprised to find. And then hey, the status
Speaker 1: of the ever Given rain how is kind of still
Speaker 1: up in the air. Yeah. I think most people just
Speaker 1: assumed the ship had sailed out from kind of about
Speaker 1: this business, but no, it was. It was seized shortly afterwards.
Speaker 1: It never left the Sewers Canal. It's in fact still
Speaker 1: there because the Egyptian government is seeking a billion dollars
Speaker 1: or so in compensation from the ship owner, and really
Speaker 1: the only leverage that the Egyptian authorities had with the
Speaker 1: ship itself, so they refused to let it leave, and
Speaker 1: the crew and the captains found themselves almost as pawned
Speaker 1: in this in this big money game, um and they're
Speaker 1: still there. Just this week, it looks like there's going
Speaker 1: to be a settlement, that they've reached a tentative settlement,
Speaker 1: and the crew and captain will be hoping they can
Speaker 1: leave in the next few weeks. But you know, there
Speaker 1: are there there are stories of sailors who have been
Speaker 1: stranded on vessels in the Sewers Canal over legal dispute
Speaker 1: and stayed there for years. So it's a really bad
Speaker 1: situation for the crew in particular. Well, and what's interesting is,
Speaker 1: and you really shed a lot of light um Kit
Speaker 1: on this, is that there's a lot of parties involved
Speaker 1: in these massive ships. There's the owner of the ship,
Speaker 1: there's companies that provide the people who are on the ship,
Speaker 1: and then you've got the Egyptian pilots who come on
Speaker 1: and help it through the canal. And there's a lot
Speaker 1: of finger pointing, it sounds like at this point because
Speaker 1: from what I understand and you're reporting to, those pilots
Speaker 1: were bickering while they were going through the canal, and
Speaker 1: they were bickering when they came off the ship as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the modern shipping is really complicated. Things get messy whenever
Speaker 1: there's legal dispute because you've got the owner of the ship,
Speaker 1: the crew of the ship, the owners of the cargo.
Speaker 1: There were seventeen thousand containers on board the ship holding
Speaker 1: things like Nike shoes and Lenovo laptops. You've got the
Speaker 1: insurers involved ultimately are going to pay the bill. You've
Speaker 1: got the Egyptian government. All these different parties have different
Speaker 1: interests and it gets really complicated. My other favorite scene
Speaker 1: in the story kit is the court scene that that
Speaker 1: went down, and what can you tell us about what
Speaker 1: transparreed there? It was this amazing day in the court
Speaker 1: in Amailia, which is almost exclusively for shipping disputes that
Speaker 1: happened in the canal um and we just we were
Speaker 1: we were fortunate to happen to be there when the
Speaker 1: ship owner suddenly pulled out a new legal strategy. Until
Speaker 1: that point, the conversations had been very civil and looked
Speaker 1: like they were working towards the settlements. When we were
Speaker 1: in court, that all changed and they suddenly played their
Speaker 1: their wild card, which was to say it wasn't alful
Speaker 1: this crash. The Egyptian authorities in the Egyptian pilots bear
Speaker 1: some of the blame, and we have this audio from
Speaker 1: the bridge that proves it um. So it was actually
Speaker 1: he was very dramatic importance, very tense, and it was
Speaker 1: a remarkable scene. The ship's kids are getting bigger. The
Speaker 1: Suez Canal is so important to global trade. I was
Speaker 1: so surprised after reading this that this hasn't happened many
Speaker 1: times in the past. It to me seems just like
Speaker 1: a matter of time until this happens again. Considering that, well,
Speaker 1: the ships are getting bigger. So here's an interesting thing.
Speaker 1: The day before the canal was completed in the nineteenth century,
Speaker 1: just before they were about to hold the first ceremonial
Speaker 1: blow killer of vessels along it, they had an incident
Speaker 1: the night before and a ship got stuck and blocked
Speaker 1: the canal. And it's a more night to free it.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a narrow channel. It's two hundred
Speaker 1: meters wide in places. That sounds like a lot that
Speaker 1: wasn't container ships are so enormous, But there's not a
Speaker 1: lot of rooms, and in a way, it is amazing
Speaker 1: this hasn't happened before. You know, fifty ships going through
Speaker 1: each and every day, and it really is only a
Speaker 1: matter of time before one of the really big ones
Speaker 1: get stuck again. I don't want to end. I want
Speaker 1: you to just keep going. Kid. This is an incredible story,
Speaker 1: a great right through, and I highly recommend everyone pick
Speaker 1: up the magazine. Go to Bloomberg dot com, business Week
Speaker 1: dot com or the Bloomberg check it out. KITCHELLL. Senior
Speaker 1: writer of Bloomberg News, Joe Webber, editor of the magazine.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. So in
Speaker 1: Public Today healthcare platform Doximity, an investor raised six hud
Speaker 1: six million dollars after preston IPO above the marketed range.
Speaker 1: This is according to the company, the profitable San Francisco
Speaker 1: based company, selling twenty three point three million shares twenty
Speaker 1: six bucks each after marketing them for twenty to twenty three.
Speaker 1: Let's get more on the I p O and the
Speaker 1: outlook for the business. I should point out shares of
Speaker 1: Doximity flying in their first day of trading, up se
Speaker 1: up more than nineteen dollars at forty five eleven a share.
Speaker 1: Doximity Chief financial Officer Anna Bryson joins us on the
Speaker 1: phone from the New York Stock Exchange. Anna, good to
Speaker 1: have you here with Tim and myself on Bloomberg. Congratulations,
Speaker 1: the i p O out of the gate really strong.
Speaker 1: First of all, when this happened, and we've got to
Speaker 1: ask you, feel like some money was left on the table. No,
Speaker 1: absolutely not. We're really really proud and happy that we
Speaker 1: had a positive outcome for our physicians who participated in
Speaker 1: this IPO. We had over ten thousand physicians participating in
Speaker 1: this i PO and and that's more important to us
Speaker 1: than any additional funds for for our company. Explain what
Speaker 1: you mean by that, because increasingly we are seeing companies
Speaker 1: offer shares when they do go public to groups of
Speaker 1: people who traditionally don't get to participate in IPO. So
Speaker 1: explain what you did. Yeah, So we did a directed
Speaker 1: shares program for our physicians which enabled them to participate
Speaker 1: in the i p O at the offer price. And
Speaker 1: it was critical for us because the physician is at
Speaker 1: the court of the mission. Physician first is our guiding principle,
Speaker 1: and the physicians really the reason that we've been able
Speaker 1: to build this leading digital platform for medical professionals. So
Speaker 1: they're the reason we're here. So it's very, very important
Speaker 1: for us to have them participate in the IPO. I'm
Speaker 1: wondering how you community heated this to physicians, because in
Speaker 1: preparing for this this interview, I did reach out to
Speaker 1: a friend of mine who's a who's a doctor, and
Speaker 1: I told him I was interviewing executives from the company today,
Speaker 1: and he actually didn't even know it was going public.
Speaker 1: Interesting we did. We did send out a lot of emails. Um.
Speaker 1: We we contacted all of our physician members via email
Speaker 1: to give them the opportunity to participate in the offering. So, um,
Speaker 1: it was mostly for our physicians that that do use
Speaker 1: our platform. Yeah, well, I should say he uses the
Speaker 1: free tier. I don't know if that if that matters,
Speaker 1: Oh no, that as long as he's using our platform,
Speaker 1: it does not to us. We did not discriminate over
Speaker 1: if if they paid a version or if it's free. Um,
Speaker 1: but we we did send out email last and many
Speaker 1: of our members. I should tell him this is why
Speaker 1: you have to be sure to read your email exactly exactly. Well,
Speaker 1: and what I understand is you've got one point eight
Speaker 1: million verified members on the platform. Of those one point million,
Speaker 1: how many did actually participate in the directed shares program.
Speaker 1: We had over ten thousand positions participate in the director
Speaker 1: Shares program. Alright, good to know. So tell us about
Speaker 1: the metrics going forward. I mean, you've got multiple tiers.
Speaker 1: One is free as him just mentioned and his his
Speaker 1: friend that taps into that. Uh, you've got what almost
Speaker 1: twenty dollars a month as a provider that you can
Speaker 1: tap into, and then hospitals are also tapping into it. Um,
Speaker 1: that's the that's how you that's the financial model going forward. Yes,
Speaker 1: so we actually sell almost all of our offerings are
Speaker 1: free for our positions, So all of our tools are
Speaker 1: free for our physicians. We do have a premium feature
Speaker 1: of our telehealth tool that we we do sell to
Speaker 1: our physicians for as you mentioned, about twenty dollars a month.
Speaker 1: But the main way we monetize is by selling into
Speaker 1: the healthcare space. And healthcare is an industry that's long
Speaker 1: been very under index on digital spend and it's in
Speaker 1: the midst of a digital transformation. And we currently work
Speaker 1: with twenty of the top twenty hospitals and twenty of
Speaker 1: the top twenty pharmaceutical companies. And that's the main way
Speaker 1: I monetize. So r M is never to make to
Speaker 1: make money out of doctor's pockets, but but to focus
Speaker 1: on on the healthcare and industry. All right, so what
Speaker 1: does the health care space get out of it? Uh?
Speaker 1: And and I'm assuming then that's the bulk of your
Speaker 1: revenues in terms of percentage wise, that's correct. Um, So
Speaker 1: he health systems customer would use us in order to
Speaker 1: in gender referrals. So we allow them to potentially connect
Speaker 1: with a colleague or a key opinion leader in order
Speaker 1: to give share brand awareness about what's happening at that
Speaker 1: hospital or what's the new the new therapy they're they're
Speaker 1: focusing on in order to engender referrals. How did it
Speaker 1: grow during the pandemic Because the doctors who I've spoken
Speaker 1: to have talked a lot about how uh it offers
Speaker 1: telehealth and it gave them an opportunity to also contact
Speaker 1: their patients not just through telehealth, but also by calling
Speaker 1: them from their cell phones. But making it look like
Speaker 1: you could actually we're calling from the office. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's one of our one of our favorite features. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know that during the pandemic, these positions have long
Speaker 1: been using our tools for for a multitude of years.
Speaker 1: You know, we've been in place for um and during
Speaker 1: the pandemic, they when you know, physicians couldn't see any
Speaker 1: of their patients face to face, they started using our
Speaker 1: telehealth tools dramatically at a much much faster pace. And
Speaker 1: we were really proud to do our part in the
Speaker 1: pandemic and give back. And we actually didn't even start
Speaker 1: charging for any of the telehealth features at all, even
Speaker 1: to our health systems until January one, so we really
Speaker 1: gave it away for free for those first eight or
Speaker 1: nine months of the pandemic, and that was really really
Speaker 1: critical for us. We were very proud to do that.
Speaker 1: It sounds like an ultimately I think about companies that
Speaker 1: outsourced back office operations or customer service operations, and it
Speaker 1: feels like, in many ways, you guys are looking to
Speaker 1: do that for the medical community, doctors specifically, and the
Speaker 1: doctor communities at major hospitals. Is that what it's ultimately about.
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. We have a multitude of ways in
Speaker 1: which physicians can use us, But we want to enable
Speaker 1: them to collaborate with their colleagues, stay up to date
Speaker 1: the latest medical news and research. They can manage their careers.
Speaker 1: They could conduct virtual patient visits. We're replacing that that
Speaker 1: that facts machine and some of the more anequated technology
Speaker 1: that that they've been using for so long. And um,
Speaker 1: we're trying to be a smartphone hub really for them. Listen,
Speaker 1: research is a tricky one. How do you how do
Speaker 1: you stay ahead and make sure you do have the
Speaker 1: latest and greatest research for those members on the platform.
Speaker 1: Just got about thirty five seconds left here. Yeah, of
Speaker 1: course we do physicians summits. We are constantly connecting with
Speaker 1: our physician members and getting feedback from them in order
Speaker 1: to grow our product suite for them, so they are
Speaker 1: directly involved in our product groom up. How big can
Speaker 1: this company become? I'm just wondering because it sounds like
Speaker 1: you guys have a lot more revenue streams that you
Speaker 1: can pursue. Forgive me, and we just got about twenty left.
Speaker 1: I think we have a tremendous organic opportunity ahead of us.
Speaker 1: As I mention healthcare and industry that is in the
Speaker 1: midst of a digital transformation, and we look forward to
Speaker 1: continuing on this journey and seeing where it can go.
Speaker 1: And I'll get back to you on that one, all right.
Speaker 1: We'd love that, would love to hear more. We've talked
Speaker 1: to Peter Alprin who's on Doximity, and we've talked to
Speaker 1: him a lot throughout the pandemic. So look forward to
Speaker 1: more on this company. Anna Bryson, thanks CFO at Doximity
Speaker 1: on the phone from New York. From the New York
Speaker 1: Stock Exchanged, the stock up about's first day of trading.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. This is
Speaker 1: among our most read stories on the Bloomberg and you'll
Speaker 1: understand why in a moment. It's about the billionaire co
Speaker 1: founder of PayPal, a vocal opponent of higher taxes, who
Speaker 1: tim a mass billions in a tax free roth ira
Speaker 1: a according to a Pro public A report. Wait what okay,
Speaker 1: so how does this sound turn less than two thousand
Speaker 1: dollars into a fortune worth more than five billion dollars?
Speaker 1: And the cherry on the on top tax free. How
Speaker 1: do I do that? Let's ask Stifferman, personal finance editor
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg News. He's joined us here in the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Interactive broker's studio. How did Peter till do it? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, these raw iras, they were really designed for
Speaker 1: the middle class. If you make a certain amount of money,
Speaker 1: you can't even open one. And uh and the contribution
Speaker 1: limits right now is six thousand dollars. When Peter tile
Speaker 1: opened this, according to ProPublica, the contribution limit was two
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. So how do you get um five billion
Speaker 1: dollars out of two thousand dollars? Well, he did it um.
Speaker 1: What he was he PayPal at that time, which he
Speaker 1: co founded, was a private company, and he took some
Speaker 1: shares which um were supposedly valued at a tenth of
Speaker 1: a cent per share, took about two million of them
Speaker 1: and stuffed them into this IRA, and then within months,
Speaker 1: less than a less than a year, the value just
Speaker 1: skyrocketed to millions of dollars. And that raises the question
Speaker 1: of like, were these shares actually worth ten cents a
Speaker 1: tenth of ascent at the time? Maybe not, But what
Speaker 1: he's been able to do very skillfully. Pro Publica showed
Speaker 1: is moved from pro PayPal, which is incredibly successful, to Facebook,
Speaker 1: which incredible was incredibly successful, onto Palatiner Technologies and it's
Speaker 1: now five billion dollars because once that he was then
Speaker 1: allowed to play with that money within that fund. Correct. Yes,
Speaker 1: and the money, this is the thing. It's the money,
Speaker 1: a traditional ira a. When you take the money out,
Speaker 1: you pay taxes, a roth ira a. Once it's in there,
Speaker 1: it's tax free forever for for the rest of your
Speaker 1: life at least and um as long as he waits
Speaker 1: until he's fifty nine and a half, which is the
Speaker 1: rule you have to be a certain age to access
Speaker 1: these retirement accounts. He pays no money when he pulls
Speaker 1: the money out, pays no taxes when you pay some
Speaker 1: money out. So we were talking about this story all day.
Speaker 1: We talked about it on Quick Take earlier with Douglas Bonaparte.
Speaker 1: He's a Regitered investment advisor. He's big on Twitter, and
Speaker 1: we asked him the question of whether it's legal, and
Speaker 1: because it's getting so much outrage, he told us it's
Speaker 1: it's perfectly legal. But still now there are there's pushback
Speaker 1: already from Democrats right now about trying to close this loophole. Well,
Speaker 1: what's legal is um is what is the idea of
Speaker 1: putting you know, putting this making a really smart bet
Speaker 1: and then like having an explode that makes total sense?
Speaker 1: The question really is um, what was Were the PayPal
Speaker 1: shares really at the value that he said they were?
Speaker 1: So the I r S could have back in the
Speaker 1: day gone in and that challenged them. But as we know,
Speaker 1: the I R S budget has been just been gutted.
Speaker 1: They don't have the resources to go after these folks.
Speaker 1: And there's a ton of people in silicon value who
Speaker 1: try this trick. Um. Peter Thiel got lucky. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: he put in the right stock at the right time
Speaker 1: and it just exploded. This goes to when we're talking
Speaker 1: about the infrastructure plan, how to pay for it, you know,
Speaker 1: putting more money into the I r S to kind
Speaker 1: of go after some of these individuals who've been able
Speaker 1: to really avoid you know, or just come up with
Speaker 1: some interesting tax strategies. The thing is in your story
Speaker 1: and you point out, and I guess from some of
Speaker 1: the pro publica data, he's not alone in doing this. No,
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe not to this extreme, but nonetheless there
Speaker 1: are others who've done it. There's definitely others in silicon
Speaker 1: value who's done who've done this exact technique. A more
Speaker 1: common thing is something called a backdoor Roth conversion, where
Speaker 1: you take a traditional IRA, you pay some taxes on it,
Speaker 1: a bunch of taxes on it, and then you converted
Speaker 1: into a ROTH that's completely legal. It was a way
Speaker 1: that the George W. Bush administration tried to raise some
Speaker 1: short term revenue at the cost of some long term
Speaker 1: lost to the to the treasury. Um that's that's something
Speaker 1: Wren Buffett has used um and that's what the Propolica
Speaker 1: story showed. But UM ron wide and the Senate Finance
Speaker 1: Chair has proposed somehow limiting Roth diaries to five million dollars,
Speaker 1: basically saying over five million, maybe you get taxed or something.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly how that would work, but he's
Speaker 1: come out he put out a proposal a few years ago,
Speaker 1: and he just said today's planning to bring it back.
Speaker 1: Today's story is part of a bigger picture about wealth
Speaker 1: and what we've learned about the wealthiest people in the
Speaker 1: country when it comes to taxes. And I'm wondering how
Speaker 1: the story plays out in Washington, because we have heard Democrats,
Speaker 1: specifically Elizabeth Warren is among them, um calling for ways
Speaker 1: to make sure that some of these loopholes. I know,
Speaker 1: we keep calling it a loophole. I don't want to
Speaker 1: to be a legal definition, but the ways that some
Speaker 1: of these people have been able to um, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: not pay what many people say of their fair share. Yes,
Speaker 1: so Pro Publica has gotten somehow gotten their hands on
Speaker 1: these confidential tax documents. Very controversial and there's an investigation
Speaker 1: of how they got their hands on these things. But
Speaker 1: they're planning a series of stories using these insights. And
Speaker 1: so we already know from previous reporting by them that
Speaker 1: a lot of billionaires in this country really don't pay
Speaker 1: any taxes or they're able to offset their income um
Speaker 1: with losses and really aren't paying what you would expect
Speaker 1: a billionaire to pay, just because they're able to manipulate
Speaker 1: the tax code and manipulate the amount of income they recognize.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've heard from billionaires over the last few
Speaker 1: years when it comes you know that they acknowledge that
Speaker 1: there are tax strategies come completely legal, but that enable
Speaker 1: them to not pay a lot in taxes, and it's
Speaker 1: an interesting Ben, I feel like backdrop, especially as you
Speaker 1: know they are taught, you know, talk in Washington about
Speaker 1: kind of what to do in terms of maybe new
Speaker 1: tax policy. Yeah. I think it's really pays for taxes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think this might raise the pressure on Congress to
Speaker 1: do something. It's hard for Congress to to to to
Speaker 1: raise taxes. It's it's it's hard for a lot of
Speaker 1: wealthy people are in Congress who are using these techniques. Um,
Speaker 1: they're very some of these are very common. Um. The
Speaker 1: Peter Teel thing, um, five billion dollars in row diory.
Speaker 1: That's an extreme outlier. Peter til say anything. He has
Speaker 1: not responded to Comma all right, just trying to be fair. Um,
Speaker 1: good stuff as always, Ben Steverman. He is our personal
Speaker 1: finance editor. Check them out at Besteverman on Twitter here
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg News Journal. Yeah but you let me drive? No, no, no,
Speaker 1: all right, please, I want to drive. Drive question. This
Speaker 1: is the drive to the Globe community. Thanks, we'll drying
Speaker 1: us Dawn on Bloomberg Radio TikTok, everybody, About ten and
Speaker 1: a half minutes left in today's trading session. We are
Speaker 1: definitely off our loads of this session, holding near our highs.
Speaker 1: When it comes to the Dow Jones industrial averages, you's
Speaker 1: just heard Doug talk about let's get to it our
Speaker 1: drive to the clothes with Matt Tuttle. He is chief
Speaker 1: executive officer also chief investment officer at Tuttle Capital Management.
Speaker 1: He's joining us on the phone from Greenwich, Connecticut. The firm,
Speaker 1: by the way, it's a money management from offering thematic
Speaker 1: and actively managed e t F. Hey Matt, nice to
Speaker 1: have you here. What's in your mind today when it
Speaker 1: comes to the financial markets. Well, I mean it's it's
Speaker 1: a bowl market. The bed left the punch bowl out.
Speaker 1: Looks like we're getting infrastructure. We got second quarter, you know,
Speaker 1: we got earnings coming out next month, and analysts probably
Speaker 1: underestimated stuff. So you know, we we love what we're seeing. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, definitely still like buying the dips. H you
Speaker 1: mentioned infrastructure. We got to talk more about it because
Speaker 1: the DAO is significantly outperforming the other major indices because
Speaker 1: of optimism about infrastructure. Is that telling you that investors
Speaker 1: certainly seem uh that to think that this actually this
Speaker 1: bill will become law even though it is on this
Speaker 1: dual track with the quote you know software infrastructure package
Speaker 1: that progressives want, you know, I think that's part of it.
Speaker 1: But to me, the bigger thing is the fact that
Speaker 1: value sold off, you know, in a real big way
Speaker 1: last week, and you know, you've really got you know,
Speaker 1: a situation where things are going back and forth when
Speaker 1: investors are buying the dips, so you know, big send that.
Speaker 1: You know, a day like today, you've got value, you've
Speaker 1: got financials doing really well. We's got really crusted last week.
Speaker 1: So I think that has probably even more to do
Speaker 1: with it than the infrastructure deal. Matt, sounds like you're
Speaker 1: on an infrastructure site right now and you're building a building.
Speaker 1: Sounds like you're outside. Hey, you know, you are very bullish.
Speaker 1: It sounds like you said, you love what we're seeing.
Speaker 1: You're buying the dips what specifically, so you know, specifically,
Speaker 1: we're we're buying the value stocks, We're buying the reopening play.
Speaker 1: You know, we we love to buy stuff when it
Speaker 1: goes down, and that stuff went down last week. We're
Speaker 1: we love the meme stock. You know, we don't think
Speaker 1: that's you know, we don't think that's going away. You know,
Speaker 1: at anytime soon. Uh so you know those are our
Speaker 1: favorite things right now. Um yeah, I mean it's it's
Speaker 1: the memes that, it's the value the folks, the phone,
Speaker 1: we have the Fomo week TF so yeah, that we
Speaker 1: we love. We're we're big into you know, buying anything
Speaker 1: that's going up. So tell us how the Pomo et
Speaker 1: F works. So the Fomo et F is designed to
Speaker 1: be able to go into whatever themes happened to be
Speaker 1: hot at the moment, which includes the meme stocks. So
Speaker 1: you know, we start off with kind of figuring out
Speaker 1: what at any given point in time is fomo. So
Speaker 1: right now, it's stocks that are popular with retail investors.
Speaker 1: It's you know, stocks that are the memes stocks and
Speaker 1: maybe the future memes stocks are stocks were can have
Speaker 1: short squeezes. It's stocks that are popular with hedge funds,
Speaker 1: and it's innovative technology. We start off with that masket,
Speaker 1: and then we're looking for, you know, what is in
Speaker 1: an up trend and we're gonna buy that and and
Speaker 1: try to keep writing it up. But we're also looking
Speaker 1: for what has been in an up trend, has recently
Speaker 1: sold off, and we're looking to buy into those names
Speaker 1: as well, and really the portfolios split fifty fifty between
Speaker 1: stocks that are currently going up and stocks that had
Speaker 1: been going up but it had sold off recently. And
Speaker 1: that that's send to smooth things out a lot. Just
Speaker 1: looking at some of your top holdings, I mean it
Speaker 1: reads kind of like a who's who of some of
Speaker 1: the corporate space. Coca Cola is in their Walmart's in
Speaker 1: their Lockheed Martin, United Health, Invitation Home, Cisco Systems, not
Speaker 1: the food Cisco, but the Texaisco. How much movement are
Speaker 1: you guys doing back and forth though, if you're trying
Speaker 1: to kind of play the winds here of what might
Speaker 1: gain what might not, because it sounds like that will
Speaker 1: can create a lot of activity. Yeah, I mean we uh,
Speaker 1: sorry about the train going but see I knew you
Speaker 1: were outside. I am, I meant the train station. We
Speaker 1: really balanced the fund on a weekly basis, So yes,
Speaker 1: there is a lot of movement back and forth. You know,
Speaker 1: the ideas we want to stay in harmony with what's
Speaker 1: going on in markets, so you know, we don't There
Speaker 1: are a bunch of index funds and rebalance like twice
Speaker 1: a year, four times a year. I mean, that's just
Speaker 1: not so much as going on so quickly you can't
Speaker 1: stay in harmony with what's going on, so we rebalance
Speaker 1: every week. Huh um. When you say the meme stocks
Speaker 1: are here to stay, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 1: Do you mean that the meme stocks are there's going
Speaker 1: to be like a new meme stock each and every
Speaker 1: week or every few days, something that's talked about in
Speaker 1: Wall Street. That's because we have access to commission free
Speaker 1: trading from in the palm of our hands. Is that
Speaker 1: what you're saying? So basically yes, and it's more than
Speaker 1: commission free trading. It's you've got a group of retail
Speaker 1: investors now that have access to the same quality information
Speaker 1: that you know we as institutional investors that act to do.
Speaker 1: The biggest piece of it is they're connected now, you know,
Speaker 1: through these chat rooms, Wall Street, bets and you know,
Speaker 1: stock twid and all of these things, so they can
Speaker 1: wield influence that you know, is is it powerful? Is
Speaker 1: any institutional investor? Oh? Yeah, I mean it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's not gonna always be game stop in AMC. At
Speaker 1: some point those things are you know, fundamentals are going
Speaker 1: to come back and those will crumbles onto the next
Speaker 1: and onto the next This is something that's not going away.
Speaker 1: These guys have power now, and what history has told
Speaker 1: us is people who have power don't give it up willingly.
Speaker 1: You also, are you know, all in on this back
Speaker 1: space um that seems to be volatile, no doubt about it.
Speaker 1: The performances down after initial kind of move up, and
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of questioning about the transparency and
Speaker 1: what investors are getting. You gotta be wary there. So
Speaker 1: it depends on on what you're doing. So we've got
Speaker 1: three funds in the fact space. One ftc X is
Speaker 1: pre merger spacts, you know, ten dollars in cash looking
Speaker 1: for a deal, and you know we're buying those companies
Speaker 1: that under ten. So you know, to me, that's that's
Speaker 1: not a bad thing, buying something for less than ten
Speaker 1: that you know, worst case you're gonna get ten. Then
Speaker 1: we've got two d S back fawns, one inverse and
Speaker 1: and one long based on the d S back in deeck.
Speaker 1: That's volatile. That index moves. So you know, we launched
Speaker 1: those funds about a month ago. The long funds up
Speaker 1: like or something, and the short funds about that. You know,
Speaker 1: those Lordstown Motors quantum escape Clover. I mean, that's the
Speaker 1: stuff that really is high octase. Alright, we're gonna leave
Speaker 1: it on that note. Hey, Matt us to get some
Speaker 1: time with you. Matt Tuttle, he's CEO and CEE IO
Speaker 1: of Tuttle Capital Management, joining us on the phone from Greenwich, Connecticut,
Speaker 1: FOMO and SPACs. That is certainly something he is looking
Speaker 1: at the train station. A perfect day for to talk
Speaker 1: about trains, right, infrastructure, no doubt about it. Thanks for
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