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Speaker 1: Going from home to home, forever hating this endless rome.

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Speaker 1: Told to keep the faith and hope, Yet no one

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Speaker 1: stayed to teach me to cope. Wanting to speak up,

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Speaker 1: yet who will listen? And if done, will it even

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Speaker 1: make a difference. All I truly desire is a mother's embrace,

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Speaker 1: and to see a smile on a father's face, to

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Speaker 1: finally know that I can really call them my own.

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Speaker 1: What a thing to dream and so far fetched, it seems.

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Speaker 1: For now, that's how I shall cope. It is how

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Speaker 1: I will keep my faith and hope.

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Speaker 2: So written by Thomas. Well done, young man.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: It's beautiful, Aaron, first time you read it?

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Speaker 3: Cry?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'd like to carry a lot. Welcome to

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Speaker 2: an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm just

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Speaker 2: a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm

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Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach in inner city Memphis.

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Speaker 2: And the last part unintentionally led to an oscar for

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Speaker 2: the film about our team called Undefeated. I believe our

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Speaker 2: country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of

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Speaker 2: fancy people in nice suits using words that none of

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Speaker 2: us understand. On CNN and Fox rather an army of

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Speaker 2: normal folks US you and me just deciding Hey, I

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Speaker 2: can help. That's what Aaron Smith, the voice we just heard,

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Speaker 2: has done. Aaron started the North Mississippi program of CASA,

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Speaker 2: whose volunteers are masked with foster children to serve as

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Speaker 2: their advocates in the core system, but most importantly, advocates

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Speaker 2: in their lives. And oftentimes they're these kids one true

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Speaker 2: and only advocate. And that's been the case with Thomas,

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Speaker 2: the young poet we also heard, who's been subjected to

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Speaker 2: an unbelievable amount of trauma that we'll hear about. And

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Speaker 2: when you hear it, I dare you not to cry.

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Speaker 2: Aaron is the first real advocate that Thomas has ever

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Speaker 2: had in his entire life. And nationwide, KASA has more

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Speaker 2: than eighty five thousand of these volunteers serving two hundred

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Speaker 2: and sixty thousand foster children across nine hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: different programs in our country. But even more volunteers, even

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Speaker 2: more programs, and even more donors are needed. So let's

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Speaker 2: get started right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. So,

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Speaker 2: Aaron is a kid that came from a divorce family

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Speaker 2: and grew up in Jackson, moved to Yazoo, went to

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Speaker 2: Old Mister School, and just a normal old person doing life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and let's talk about is it cassa? Is that

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Speaker 2: how I pronounce its casa?

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Speaker 4: It's okay. Everybody says that.

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Speaker 2: Is it supposed to be like Spanish house? Is that

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Speaker 2: the idea?

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Speaker 4: And I will quickly correct anybody that calls it cassa?

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Speaker 2: All right? So you're this, You're this normal kid, never

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Speaker 2: been a foster kid, and you come to Oxford, and

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Speaker 2: because you're going to be you, you join a sorority. That's right,

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Speaker 2: and that's Theta's right, that's correct. All right, So you're

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Speaker 2: a Theta and you're living life. You're being an old

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Speaker 2: miss sorority chick.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: And Theda has a national philanthropy Yeah, tell me about that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So, like I said, I came here into the

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Speaker 4: thousand and two, grew up in Mississippi my whole life,

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Speaker 4: so I knew a lot about old miss Although I

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Speaker 4: had planned to go to Missippi State, I came here one

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Speaker 4: time and decided this is where I was going to go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean you can assume how that happened.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you go here, you go to Starkville, you come here. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just lost all of our Starkville listeners.

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Speaker 4: But we gained more Old Miss listeners.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I joined Cap Alpha Theta and as you

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Speaker 4: mentioned their national philanthropy as Cossa never heard of it,

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Speaker 4: didn't know anything about it.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's for those of for those who are listening

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Speaker 2: that don't understand Old Miss and the Greek system here,

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Speaker 2: it's robust. I don't know the numbers, but there's twenty

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Speaker 2: or thirty fraternities, twenty or thirty Swarties very active, and

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Speaker 2: Sarti has two hundred and fifty three hundred members.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's actually right now, it's probably around four hundred

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Speaker 4: to five hundred, four hundred and.

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Speaker 2: Five hundred members. Persalty fraternities are two fifty three hundred.

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Speaker 2: The houses on campus.

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Speaker 4: Sleep defends, but they're usually about ten million dollars.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, and I mean they do they sleep two

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Speaker 2: or three hundred, well, no, probably fifty to one hundred

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Speaker 2: and twenty five members. And everybody eats breakfast, lunch, and

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Speaker 2: dinner at the houses together. It is a robust system.

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Speaker 2: And each SORTI infraternity always has a philanthropy, and so

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Speaker 2: theta's was this thing you'd never heard about called KASAKA.

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Speaker 4: Yeah right, it actually stands for court appointed Special Advocates, So.

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Speaker 2: Court appointed special advocate, that's an acronym. But we're just

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Speaker 2: going to go a CASA.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, if I have to say that again.

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Speaker 2: But your kid, your college kid, and there's this flanchpek

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Speaker 2: called castle.

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Speaker 3: That's rights, you'll get it right.

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Speaker 2: Eventually it's the ASA. So you don't know anything about it,

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Speaker 2: but you're probably required as a sorority sister in there

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Speaker 2: to do something to raise money because that's typically requiring

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Speaker 2: of membership in the Greek system. Yeah. Right, So the

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Speaker 2: truth is you were required.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, I mean you know it's aired it okay.

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Speaker 2: But that's we're going back to the beginning, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: all right, so you're required. So would you find out

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Speaker 2: from this requirement? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: You know, honestly, I didn't really find out a whole

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Speaker 4: lot because KASA is such a different type of organization

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Speaker 4: and so it's really hard to be hands on, and really,

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Speaker 4: unless you have a local program, it's death it's essentially

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Speaker 4: impossible to be hands on. So really what we did

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Speaker 4: is we we would raise a lot of money, give

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Speaker 4: it to them and give it to them and hope

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Speaker 4: that it was impacting. You know, another program across the

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Speaker 4: United States, and that was it.

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Speaker 2: So but so something happened when you found out about it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so are the gentleman the judge that started KASA.

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Speaker 4: You know, he one day he said, I can't keep

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Speaker 4: making these decisions with these children and foster care with

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Speaker 4: not enough information, and so he one day just gathered

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Speaker 4: a group of volunteers together and said, Hey, I want

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Speaker 4: to start a program where y'all are advocates, volunteer advocates

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Speaker 4: for children in the youth court. And they do exactly

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Speaker 4: what social workers CPS workers.

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Speaker 3: Do, but they're volunteers, all.

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Speaker 2: Free, minimum age twenty one, twenty one, got to be

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Speaker 2: legal adult, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Twenty one, past background checks, all that good stuff. But

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Speaker 4: the other side of this is that these volunteers only

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Speaker 4: have one to two cases at a time, whereas caseworkers,

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Speaker 4: I mean, they're overburdened. You know, we have so many

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Speaker 4: children in the system, and it's that's not no fault

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Speaker 4: of their own. But also that's the that's the important

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Speaker 4: thing about KASSA.

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Speaker 2: So these KASA volunteers they spend time with foster children

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Speaker 2: they're assigned to every single week, and then they provide

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Speaker 2: written reports and recommendations to the Youth Court judges. And

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Speaker 2: they do it all as volunteers. And their reports and

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Speaker 2: the recommendations, it's all about what's in the best interest

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Speaker 2: for the health of the child and no one else.

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Speaker 2: And what do I mean by no one else. They

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Speaker 2: don't care what the court thinks. They're not worried about

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Speaker 2: the parents, they're not worried about the system. They're simply

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Speaker 2: providing written reports and recommendations for what's in the best

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Speaker 2: interests of the child. Again, they're the advocate. After graduating

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Speaker 2: from Old Miss Aaron wanted to become one of these volunteers,

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Speaker 2: one of these advocates. She had a heart for the kids,

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Speaker 2: but there wasn't a cost of program in Oxford or

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Speaker 2: the county. It's in La Fayette. She then thought, well,

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Speaker 2: maybe I'll start a program in Oxford. But she didn't

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Speaker 2: think she could do all that at that point in

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Speaker 2: her life with all she had going on, so she

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Speaker 2: simply started as a volunteer elsewhere in addition to her

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Speaker 2: actual job. To pay the bills, like everybody has to,

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Speaker 2: once week, Aaron got her car and she drove to Memphis,

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Speaker 2: an hour there and then an hour back the same night,

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Speaker 2: just to be a constant in children's lives.

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Speaker 4: So I tell people all the time that our purpose

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Speaker 4: is to ensure that children find a safe and permanent home,

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Speaker 4: whether that's reunification.

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Speaker 2: Or it's adoption, reunification with their family or adoption.

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Speaker 4: And that comes in a lot of ways. So it's

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Speaker 4: really given a voice for those children in youth in.

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Speaker 3: The court system.

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Speaker 4: It's also supplying resources for them and being that consistent

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Speaker 4: adult in a child's life. That's one thing that we

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Speaker 4: really really are, and.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about oftentimes five, six, seven, eight year old

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Speaker 2: abused child who's scared, angry at the world and all

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Speaker 2: about themselves and selfishness because they have to survive.

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Speaker 4: And they don't trust anybody, and.

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Speaker 2: They've been through trauma and they're broken, right, and they

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Speaker 2: don't trust anybody. So you're supposed to go in there

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Speaker 2: and be trusted and be their advocate, and they're supposed

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Speaker 2: to fall in love with you, and I'm sure they

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Speaker 2: do immediately, right.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, we'll have to ask Thomas.

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Speaker 2: That, but I mean, that's the goal, right is to

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Speaker 2: is to break through that barrier they've had to put

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Speaker 2: up to survive and and be a trusted, be able

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Speaker 2: to be constant. Yeah, and so that's what you did

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Speaker 2: in Memphis.

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Speaker 4: That's what I did in Memphis.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about your first case. Well, it was you

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Speaker 2: didn't know what you were.

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Speaker 4: Doing in your It was a child that had been

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Speaker 4: severely abused as an infant, an infant like she was

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Speaker 4: three months old when she was abused, checking baby syndrome,

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Speaker 4: so much so that she was a special needs child.

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Speaker 4: But the abuse calls brain fracture, and so of course

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Speaker 4: then cause her to.

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Speaker 2: Have to there's not a deep enough hole to put

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Speaker 2: those people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I know it's tough. I will be honest. After

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Speaker 4: that first case.

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Speaker 2: That's my question.

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Speaker 4: You know, I definitely have to take a break. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's it's tough. It's just it's not something there's not

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Speaker 4: enough training or really really any real life experiences to

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Speaker 4: prepare you for it. Just the things that you see.

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Speaker 2: And so the farm break and the loss and the sadness.

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Speaker 4: And I already have a super sensitive emotional heart.

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Speaker 2: As it is, So how do you deal with that?

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Speaker 4: You know, when I was in Memphis, and I was,

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Speaker 4: you know, I was still in my early thirties, I

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Speaker 4: mean late twenties, and it honestly, which is this might

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Speaker 4: sound crazy, but it just it empowered me more to

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Speaker 4: do more, to help more, to what could I do

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Speaker 4: to help this child?

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Speaker 2: So the way you talk, that's why you decided to

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Speaker 2: dig in and do better.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's impressive, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: For an average person. So you spend four years in Memphis. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and now you say I want to revisit this idea

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Speaker 2: in La Fete County.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 2: Because you decide you got to do more.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. That that's a lot of it. But also for

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Speaker 4: anybody that knows much about you know, good Oxford, they

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Speaker 4: know that it's.

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Speaker 3: Often as I said earlier, is Camelot.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's I think that, you know, we're lucky

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Speaker 4: to live in a town that has, you know, a

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Speaker 4: great public university. The town's beautiful to retire e place,

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Speaker 4: and we have great public schools, some of the top

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Speaker 4: in the state, good jobs, good community colleges. We have

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Speaker 4: a lot of successes here. But one thing that that's

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Speaker 4: a hard fact for people to face is that there's

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Speaker 4: abuse and neglect going on around them, could be in

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Speaker 4: your neighbor's home, poors and homes, richest of homes. It's happening.

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Speaker 4: And so one thing that I knew going into this

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Speaker 4: this was that it was needed here. And a lot

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Speaker 4: of people didn't know that. You know, there was there's

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Speaker 4: no concept burgers in this part, in this part of

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Speaker 4: the state except for this one.

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Speaker 2: And so did you did you know that need existed?

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Speaker 2: When you were in Memphis? The four years kind of

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Speaker 2: taught you this is going on in my own back door.

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Speaker 2: And I'm driving to Memphis. First of all, you're working,

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Speaker 2: trying to make a living, and you're burning your gas

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Speaker 2: and all your time up going back forward to Memphis,

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Speaker 2: and you know I can do it here. Yeah, we'll

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Speaker 2: be right back now. Let's return to Aaron on starting

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Speaker 2: a Costa chapter. So I started it? Yeah, how'd you

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Speaker 2: start it? Who? Who? Who? Did you? How long did

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Speaker 2: it take?

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Speaker 4: It was a long process?

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Speaker 2: How long?

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Speaker 4: So I started trying to start it in November twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 4: That was when I had my first meeting with the

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Speaker 4: youth Board Judge and I will never forget, and I

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Speaker 4: tell this story often that I called him, well, I

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Speaker 4: emailed him, actually I like to give my youth court

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Speaker 4: judge a hard time because he still has a flip phone,

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Speaker 4: so he either called him on.

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Speaker 2: His house flip phone Mississippi.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, he's great. But he's been doing this for

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Speaker 4: over twenty years. And I send him an email and

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Speaker 4: I asked him, you know, if I could meet with

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Speaker 4: him one day, and we met up here in the

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Speaker 4: Youth court. And I still give him a hard time

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Speaker 4: because we walked in and there's a bunch of windows

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Speaker 4: in the courtroom and there's a lot of blinds, so

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Speaker 4: if the blinds are open, you can still see pretty well.

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Speaker 4: He never turned those lights on in that courtroom, and

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Speaker 4: I was like, well, this is not going to go good.

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Speaker 4: And I remember him sitting down and he said, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, people have wanted to start programs like this

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Speaker 4: four but nobody's ever followed through. And I will never

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Speaker 4: forget him saying that to me. And I tell people

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Speaker 4: all the time, and I tell him and I said,

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Speaker 4: this is something that I've got to fall through with now.

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Speaker 4: I'm not one to either aid to back down easily

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Speaker 4: either when things get hard, because I tell you, this

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Speaker 4: was no walk in the park and starting this organization.

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Speaker 2: So that was November of twenty.

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Speaker 4: Seventeen, and so then I hit the ground running and

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Speaker 4: February the fifth we got our nonprofit status of eighteen.

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Speaker 2: We're the fifth of eighteen. So it took you four months, yeah,

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Speaker 2: to get your nonprofit status, and I guess to get

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Speaker 2: the court to approve you guys to.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the very first thing we have to do

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Speaker 4: is basically have him signs you to paper and say

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Speaker 4: he's willing to support us. And then there's obviously a

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Speaker 4: ton of paperwork. And we started with three volunteers serving

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Speaker 4: six children, and then just in twenty twenty one we

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Speaker 4: served over one hundred and fifteen children.

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Speaker 2: How many volunteers we.

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Speaker 4: Had, I have to go back and look. I have

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Speaker 4: all these stats on my phone and.

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Speaker 2: Paul apart me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's twenty twenty one we had thirty seven.

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Speaker 2: And you have how many volunteers today? Forty two, forty two.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent of the kids in foster care and

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Speaker 2: the Fat County are served by you guys.

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Speaker 4: It's correct. It's very rare for a cost of program

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Speaker 4: as young as we are. We've been serving kids for

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Speaker 4: since November twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 3: It's very rare.

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Speaker 4: For a program to be serving one hundred percent of

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Speaker 4: the foster care population that quickly.

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Speaker 2: How did you find volunteers?

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Speaker 4: I really, you know, I think when you talk about

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Speaker 4: something that and let me let me let me preface

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Speaker 4: this by saying, I always tell people this is not

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Speaker 4: a sunshine and rainbow volunteer job. It's a commitment.

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Speaker 2: Any volunteer jobs with their salt.

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Speaker 3: Are not yeah yeah shine jobs.

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Speaker 4: So it's it comes with the commitment, and I make

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Speaker 4: sure individuals know that ahead of time. But I really

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Speaker 4: firmly believe that we have built this program due to

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Speaker 4: the success and the impact we've had it children and

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Speaker 4: families lives.

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Speaker 2: And now because of her success, they're building it beyond

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Speaker 2: Oxford Lafayette County. They expanded to Lee County, which includes

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Speaker 2: the city of Tupelo, birthplace of Elvis Presley, and Aaron's

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Speaker 2: ultimate goal is to serve five unserved counties all across

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Speaker 2: North Mississippi. So, which proudest moment Aaron?

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Speaker 4: You know, it's it's really hard to identify one pride moment.

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Speaker 4: You know, It's a lot of people don't understand, is like,

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Speaker 4: not all parents are bad parents, and so you know,

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Speaker 4: some people can turn their life around. And I've seen

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Speaker 4: some really, really, really good reunification situations where the parents

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Speaker 4: are doing well, still doing well, still stay connected. I've

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Speaker 4: seen some incredible adoption stories.

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Speaker 2: Is it oftentimes parents are struggling with drugs.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so yeah.

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Speaker 2: They get their lives cleaned up and then they're able

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Speaker 2: to reinduce the children into their own families. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And a lot of times I just need somebody to

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Speaker 4: support them, you know, and that there themselves. Yeah. And

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Speaker 4: that's where you know, myself and my staff and my

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Speaker 4: volunteers come in and provide that support. It's not just

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Speaker 4: about you know, oftentimes, more often than not, these parents

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Speaker 4: have been through the same thing that they're going through

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Speaker 4: with their children. And it's very i had to say, hereditary.

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Speaker 4: But when you go through it, that's all you know,

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Speaker 4: then more than likely you're going to be involved in

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Speaker 4: it too.

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Speaker 2: It may not be genetically hereditary, but it could certainly

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Speaker 2: be culturally hereditary.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, And it's it's a tough world that we

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Speaker 4: live in, you know. Just in my my family. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I've seen my sisters in recovery and so I've seen

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Speaker 4: a lot of that I carry into my day to

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Speaker 4: day work, because I've seen it in my own my

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Speaker 4: own family just in you know, and she's come a

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Speaker 4: long way and she's doing great, but you know, she's

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Speaker 4: she's been there, and so it's easier for me to

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Speaker 4: relate to these parents because I have. I can't relate

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Speaker 4: in all ways, but I can relate in those ways.

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Speaker 2: Makes sense.

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Speaker 4: So a lot of pride moments. You know, I'm just

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Speaker 4: proud that I get to wake up and do what

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Speaker 4: I love every single day.

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Speaker 2: That is a blessing, it is. And Thomas, maybe your

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Speaker 2: story is a little different. Tell me about where you

356
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Speaker 2: were born.

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Speaker 1: I was originally born in Saint Louis to my knowledge.

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Speaker 1: When I was two, around two months we moved to Batesfield, Mississippi.

359
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Speaker 2: With your mom, your dad, both with.

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Speaker 1: My mom and my grandmother and grandfather got it. We

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Speaker 1: moved into a small, little, uh broken down trailer. My

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Speaker 1: mom was a struggling drug addict who was abusive. She

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Speaker 1: would often tie me up with electrical chords. So I

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Speaker 1: was Bachsfield, Mississippi. Oh, there's a news article about us.

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Speaker 1: How How were I was five? When I was five,

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Speaker 1: I remember the police suddenly like banging at our door.

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Speaker 1: My mother she went to hide in a closet. The

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Speaker 1: policeman eventually like knocked down our door. They brought my Yes, yes.

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Speaker 2: No trauma involved here.

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Speaker 1: I remember pretty much everything from then.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: The police came and got my brother and my sister

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Speaker 1: and I UH, and they went in to search the home.

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Speaker 1: I did what I usually did, and I took off

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Speaker 1: running from the police officers. And I stopped at a

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Speaker 1: tree and I thought, you know, let me climb it.

377
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Speaker 1: But I realized that it not a climatory. So the

378
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Speaker 1: policeman came and he got us, and from then on

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Speaker 1: we went to CPS. I went to a foster home

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Speaker 1: with my younger brother and I. We also had an

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Speaker 1: older sister, but she went with her biological father, who

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Speaker 1: did not want any biracial children. So my brother and

383
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Speaker 1: I went to a home. I was deemed a problem

384
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Speaker 1: child and I was sent to facility. After facility or.

385
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Speaker 2: Are you a problem child?

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Speaker 1: I would say I definitely was.

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Speaker 2: What does a problem chop mean?

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Speaker 1: I threw a lot of temper tantrums when things didn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily go my way and stuff like.

390
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Speaker 2: That doesn't sound like a whole lot once your way.

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Speaker 1: Early in life, it did not know so you were mad,

392
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Speaker 1: Yeah I was.

393
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're allowed to be mad when things don't go

394
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Speaker 2: your way. When you're a child and someone ties you

395
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Speaker 2: up with an electrical cord, I think you're allowed to

396
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Speaker 2: be angry about that. So you're angry, right, Yeah I was.

397
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Speaker 2: And so how cared do you feel about? How cared

398
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Speaker 2: do you feel for when you're in a group home?

399
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Speaker 2: I mean, Thomas, I'm sitting here thinking about being five

400
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Speaker 2: years old and my door getting kicked in and run

401
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,360
Speaker 2: into a tree I don't know how to climb, and

402
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 2: some cops taking me away after having been tied up

403
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 2: and abused by my mother, and then being put in

404
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 2: a facility very angry, very confused, very scared with a

405
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Speaker 2: whole bunch of kids who have a similar experience. What's

406
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Speaker 2: the atmosphere like there for a kid?

407
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Speaker 1: It's the atmosphere is pretty chaotic. Those places tend to

408
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: attend to the need of the group rather than the individual,

409
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Speaker 1: so you don't really feel cared for or like your

410
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 1: needs are being met. And so the root of those

411
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: behaviors I never really talked about or tried to be

412
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Speaker 1: like solved or anything.

413
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Speaker 2: So because you have no real parental care and you

414
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 2: get systemized. I guess institutionalized maybe is a better word

415
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: in a system. And you may be in one foster

416
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Speaker 2: home and then another foster home, but in the middle

417
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Speaker 2: of that you're in a group home. I can't imagine

418
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Speaker 2: that there's anything constant for you other than chaos.

419
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Speaker 1: Yeah, there really isn't. I would go from one facility,

420
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Speaker 1: they would deem, you know, that I did not complete treatment,

421
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: and so I would just be sent to another facility

422
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Speaker 1: in hopes that I would complete treatment.

423
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Speaker 2: In the meantime, you're not Issian treatments you since you'd't

424
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Speaker 2: being loved.

425
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that wasn't There wasn't a lot of love

426
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Speaker 1: in those facilities. I mean, you act up and then

427
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: they inject you with a shot to put you to sleep,

428
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Speaker 1: even at you know, eight years old, So it's it's

429
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Speaker 1: not really a whole lot of help.

430
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Speaker 2: I do not like victims in this world. And what

431
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 2: I mean by that is people who do the woe

432
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Speaker 2: as me and take on the presence of a victim

433
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Speaker 2: because they want to. They want to become victims as

434
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Speaker 2: an excuse. Okay, on the other side of the leisure

435
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 2: heartbroken by true victims, and I can see that as

436
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 2: a child. You're a victim. Yet I'm looking at this

437
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 2: seemingly well adjusted, nineteen year old, bright kid. How's that happen?

438
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Speaker 1: I mean, I was adopted at eight.

439
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 2: That family, somebody adopted this pain and the kid who

440
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 2: couldn't complete treatments, who was angry and didn't even know

441
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 2: how to climb a damn tree? How's that work?

442
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: They came to a place called Youth Villages, and we

443
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 1: had a couple of visits, and I didn't think it

444
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: was possible, But one day they just decided that they

445
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 1: wanted me, and so I lived with them. The adoption

446
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: eventually got finalized, and I was loved. I did to

447
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: an extent. It's a very complicated family dynamic with them.

448
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 1: There was a lot of love, but also, let's say,

449
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: a lot of hatred and sometimes regrets.

450
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.

451
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: Shortly after I was adopted, I also had an adopted

452
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 1: brother who was there, who got adopted some years before me,

453
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 1: and shortly after the adoption process was over, he began

454
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: to molest me on numerous occasions. Occasions, and one day

455
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: my mother walked in on it, and she proceeded to

456
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: beat the living crap out of us.

457
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: Both.

458
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: I actually still have some of the marks, like on

459
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: my upper thigh, to the point where I had to wear.

460
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: Your adopted parents.

461
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: My adoptive mother, yes beat you, yes, being last Yes,

462
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: at eight.

463
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 2: That would be like if someone walks in to rob

464
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 2: the Chevron station and the police show up and they

465
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 2: beat the hell out of the clerk for being robbed.

466
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that happened, and she let us know that

467
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: if it ever happened again, that we would both be

468
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: removed from the home.

469
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 2: Did she think you were complicit?

470
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: I suppose, so you're thirteen years old, Yeah, I'm sorry.

471
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 2: Go ahead.

472
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: They were heavy on just praying for somebody would make

473
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: them stop those deeds. And so when I was when

474
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 1: I was thirteen, it happened again, and I did not

475
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 1: want to tell anybody because I did not want to

476
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: be removed from this home.

477
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: Even though this home was rough, yeah, I mean it

478
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: was still better than no home.

479
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. And at thirteen, I just started not having any

480
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: any behavioral issues. I just got off all medication and

481
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: I was doing well in life. Eventually, my adoptive brother

482
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: told him himself, and he was removed and sent to jail.

483
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 2: How old was he when he went to jail. Was

484
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 2: he an adult or a child as an adult?

485
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: Twenty two?

486
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: Okay, so he went to big jail.

487
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got out January of what January whenever?

488
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: When he went to jail, did you stay in the house?

489
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: I did? Yeah, I did January twenty twenty yep. And

490
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: once he was released, there was a court order saying

491
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: he was not supposed to be around me until I

492
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: was at least eighteen. All this February came and he

493
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: was basically living in our household, and I tried to

494
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: talk with my parents about how I felt about it

495
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: and how I did not want to be in the

496
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: next bedroom next to the person who did all this.

497
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: Did not listen to me, and I was However.

498
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: I can't even believe that. I mean, because it's if

499
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: you're a if you've been unders is if you if

500
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 2: you've been convicted of a of a sexual offense, you're

501
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: not even supposed to live next to schools or churches.

502
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 2: How in the world can you live with the person

503
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 2: that you offended against. I don't even understand how that works.

504
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: I don't know any of the legal details. I was

505
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: kept out of all of that.

506
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 2: But the bottom line is he moves back in your house.

507
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I tried to sit down with my mother

508
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: and my father and talk about.

509
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: This, talk about these kids just they don't feel safe,

510
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: They've been beat they don't trust anybody. I mean, my gosh,

511
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: I can't even fathom how that must have made you feel. Thomas.

512
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I mean my mother stuh been.

513
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 2: Just screwed with since day one.

514
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, my mother's she straight up reminded me all the

515
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: things that I had to go at her household. I was,

516
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: they were paying for my senior trip to Europe. I

517
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,959
Speaker 1: was part of the National Honor Society, a whole lot

518
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: of clubs, and she reminded me that if I would

519
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: say anything that I would be removed and I would

520
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: lose all of that. And I kept all of that

521
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: in until November second. I had started college courses and

522
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: it was distressed, became too much, and so November second

523
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: I told my therapist and November three, I was put

524
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: back into the system and as.

525
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 2: A therapist because there's danger can step in, Yeah, change things, And.

526
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: I mean it. I had thought about it a lot,

527
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: and I so you.

528
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: Knew that, Yeah, it was. It was one of those situations,

529
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: so you hadn't told your therapist yet because you knew

530
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: what was going to happen, and you finally said, this

531
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 2: is mild. I'm a tone with therapy.

532
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets to the point to where you know

533
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: you're going to be uprooted from everything that you had

534
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: gotten used to, but it far outways. Staying in that

535
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: current situation.

536
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: I can't help but think what I'm thinking, And I

537
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 2: got to ask this question. Do you do you think

538
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: your adoptive parents looked at that molestation and patent abuse,

539
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: which is exactly what that is. Do you think because

540
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 2: it was brother doing to brother, that they saw it

541
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: more as a homosexual act rather than an abusive act.

542
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: Yes, we would, We would have late night discussions and

543
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and it was it was they didn't

544
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: see it as molestation. They saw it as just plain

545
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: simple homosexuality and that he was my brother and that

546
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: I throughout everything, I should always love my brother, and

547
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: that prayer it will all work out.

548
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: Look, I want to say this, I'm a Christian, yeah

549
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: and operate, and I believe in the power of prayer.

550
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 2: So before I say what I'm about to say, I

551
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: want to make sure that I'm not to have a

552
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: critical on what I say, I am a Christian. I

553
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: do believe in the power prayer, and I pray every night,

554
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: and I believe in redemption. And I'm really not sure

555
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: how I can face the next day from all the

556
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: things I do wrong without my prayer and redemption. Having

557
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: said that, you're not going to pray away as sexual predator, yeah,

558
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: and that was the answer here. And instead of this

559
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: being a sexual predator, this was, in their view, a

560
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: homosexual act, not a predatory act. And once again nobody's

561
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: protecting you. Wow, Thomas, amazing, amazing story. The fact that

562
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: you're here and so you are representative in this conversation

563
00:31:53,840 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: of thousands of kids across this country and the sadness

564
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: that so many children lived with in the world. Yet

565
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: you're also to me into mine eyes, a really interesting

566
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: example of what can happen. Thomas is in college now,

567
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 2: which is where he met Aaron and Casa. But to

568
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 2: get to college, he figured that out all on his

569
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: own before CASA, who advocated for.

570
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: You Tuplow's Mississippi Child Protection Services.

571
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 2: How did that work out?

572
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: It didn't a quite work out. Once I turned eighteen,

573
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: they removed me from the facility that they had placed.

574
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: Me in.

575
00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: And I went straight. I went to a shelter and

576
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: for a couple of days before I came to Ole Miss.

577
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: To school.

578
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, for college.

579
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: Uh, what do you mean you went to a shelter.

580
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: It's homeless shelter.

581
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: No, it's it's a children's shelter.

582
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: In two Yeah, because then at eighteen.

583
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: Well no, there was just they couldn't find a home,

584
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: a foster home that I ended up at a shelter.

585
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: D dorm room.

586
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

587
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: How in the world did you get into college?

588
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: Well, I just a few. A few months back, I

589
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: decided I wanted to go ahead, and uh graduated from

590
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: high school early because I knew if I didn't, then

591
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: the state would. Yeah, the state would just find somewhere,

592
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: whether it be a facility like they eventually did, or

593
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: a group home or something where I had no technology,

594
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: had no contact with my friends. I would be even

595
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: more stranded than I was then. And so in December,

596
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: all that was finalized, and I just I didn't want

597
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: to go to college. Nobody from the agency talked with

598
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: me about it or anything, or told me about any resources,

599
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: any scholarships, and I applied to a lot of them,

600
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to comfortable Miss. I had a

601
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: scholarship to a Fisk University in Nashville, four ride, but

602
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: I was required by the state to state in Mississippi,

603
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: so I chose all miss It was no scholarship, but

604
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: they told me that that was all right since the

605
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: state would pay for everything. In the summer, I was

606
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: transported by a two interns that I never met, and

607
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: I was so.

608
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 2: Your experience of being dropped off college was not mom

609
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: and pop and some people that cared for you and

610
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: he loved you and everything else. It was two interns

611
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: you never met, drop you off in Oxford. There's your

612
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: dorm room and you probably have a bag of stuff,

613
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 2: and that's that.

614
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: They gave me about one hundred and fifty dollars of cash.

615
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: I didn't have a working phone, per se, it worked

616
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: like through Wi Fi.

617
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: Let me just say this real quick. If anyone listening

618
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: here has a seventeen year old or eighteen year old

619
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 2: that's able bodied and minded that says they can't get

620
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: to college, they need to listen to Thomas, because that's amazing. Thomas,

621
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: Thank you, it really is. That concludes part one of

622
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: our conversation with Aaron and Thomas and I hope you'll

623
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 2: listen to part two that's available right now. Before we

624
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: sign off, there's a production note I've got to address,

625
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: and it has to do with Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong.

626
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 2: There was a song once called Tomato Tomato, and it

627
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: addresses the different pronunciation of different words, and my fancy

628
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 2: producer says, I don't know how to say philanthropy or

629
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 2: philanthropy or phalan. I don't know how to say it,

630
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: but here's what it is. It is basically giving of

631
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: your time and your effort and your resources to help

632
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 2: another person who needs help. And an army of normal

633
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 2: folks obviously is predicated on the idea that fancy people

634
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 2: in fancy suits on CNN and Fox using big, fancy

635
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: words are not going to solve our ils. And so

636
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: my producer was kind enough to point out that I

637
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: don't know how to use fancy words, and frankly, I

638
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 2: think I need a medal for it. And you know

639
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 2: they're from some cargo. I'm from Memphis. I guess it

640
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: makes them feel important using big words. So anyway, I'm

641
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 2: glad we address that. To join an army of normal folks,

642
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: go to normal Folks dot us. That's right, normal folks

643
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 2: dot us and sign up to become a member of

644
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 2: the movement. Even if you can't say philanthropy, I hope

645
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 2: you'll join us. It only takes committing to doing one

646
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 2: good thing a year to help others. And there will

647
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: be a ton of awesome ideas on this podcast. When

648
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: the folks are featuring, some of you may resonate with

649
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 2: the stories deeply and others may not at all, And

650
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 2: that's okay because we're all called to different things because

651
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: we have different talents, and some of those talents include

652
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 2: producing and some include pronouncing philanthropy. But together with each

653
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 2: of us doing what we can, we literally can change

654
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 2: the country. We'd love to hear what you do. And

655
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: if there are stories you've heard that you think we

656
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 2: must tell, write me at any time at Bill atnormalfolks

657
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: dot us. As you've heard everyone we're featuring and myself

658
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 2: included or sharing our direct contact information. The reason is

659
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 2: we want to build a community that's unlike anything America's

660
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: ever seen. Guys, we're not just making a show or podcast.

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Speaker 2: We're trying to build a movement. If you enjoyed this episode,

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00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 2: rate it and review it, Share, it with friends on

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00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 2: social all these things that will help us grow an

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00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you

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00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 2: next week. They lay the tank to Dom