1 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:23,530 Speaker 1: Pushkin, as all dungeon masters and adventurers know. Twenty twenty 2 00:00:23,570 --> 00:00:27,930 Speaker 1: four is the fiftieth anniversary of Dungeons and Dragons, the 3 00:00:27,970 --> 00:00:31,610 Speaker 1: first commercial role playing game. I'm a huge fan of 4 00:00:31,690 --> 00:00:34,370 Speaker 1: role playing games. I've been playing them since the early 5 00:00:34,450 --> 00:00:37,770 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, and to mark the anniversary, I wanted to 6 00:00:37,770 --> 00:00:42,170 Speaker 1: give you another chance to hear an old favorite. A 7 00:00:42,250 --> 00:00:46,210 Speaker 1: quick word of warning. This episode discusses death by suicide. 8 00:00:46,690 --> 00:00:51,130 Speaker 1: If you're suffering emotional distress or having suicidal thoughts, support 9 00:00:51,490 --> 00:00:55,570 Speaker 1: is available, for example, from nine eight to eight Suicide 10 00:00:55,650 --> 00:00:59,210 Speaker 1: and Crisis Lifeline in the US and from the Samaritans 11 00:00:59,250 --> 00:01:02,810 Speaker 1: if you're in the UK. Cautionary Tales will return with 12 00:01:03,050 --> 00:01:07,450 Speaker 1: new episodes on the tenth of January. In the meantime, 13 00:01:08,090 --> 00:01:12,730 Speaker 1: I give you demonizing Dungeons and Dragons. 14 00:01:21,210 --> 00:01:25,130 Speaker 2: And Raymond Chandler novels, and in Humphrey Bogart movies, it 15 00:01:25,170 --> 00:01:29,370 Speaker 2: often begins with a telephone call. Strange to say in 16 00:01:29,410 --> 00:01:32,170 Speaker 2: real life that often begins that way too. 17 00:01:33,890 --> 00:01:37,130 Speaker 1: For those are the words of William Deer. He's going 18 00:01:37,170 --> 00:01:41,370 Speaker 1: to take us on an adventure that's full of thrills, surprises, 19 00:01:41,410 --> 00:01:44,970 Speaker 1: and terrors. William Dear is one of the most famous 20 00:01:45,090 --> 00:01:50,410 Speaker 1: private detectives in the world. Dashing mustachioed, sporting a vast 21 00:01:50,490 --> 00:01:54,890 Speaker 1: gold ring. He's a star with his own private plays, 22 00:01:55,250 --> 00:01:59,930 Speaker 1: and this telephone call in August nineteen seventy nine was 23 00:01:59,970 --> 00:02:01,970 Speaker 1: going to get him started on one of his most 24 00:02:02,210 --> 00:02:05,930 Speaker 1: infamous cases. On the other end of the telephone was 25 00:02:05,970 --> 00:02:09,610 Speaker 1: a surgeon from the same part of North Texas, Alliam Deer. 26 00:02:10,170 --> 00:02:11,770 Speaker 1: The two men had met a few times. 27 00:02:15,050 --> 00:02:18,410 Speaker 3: My nephew has disappeared. He was taking a summer course 28 00:02:18,450 --> 00:02:21,370 Speaker 3: at Michigan State University and East Lansing when it happened. 29 00:02:21,570 --> 00:02:23,290 Speaker 2: And he didn't just run off. 30 00:02:23,850 --> 00:02:27,250 Speaker 3: He's not that kind of kid. He loves school. In fact, 31 00:02:27,930 --> 00:02:30,770 Speaker 3: he's considered to be a genius. 32 00:02:30,770 --> 00:02:36,290 Speaker 1: The boy, James Dallas Egbert the Third or Dallas, was 33 00:02:36,530 --> 00:02:38,050 Speaker 1: just sixteen years old. 34 00:02:38,530 --> 00:02:42,770 Speaker 3: He graduated from high school at thirteen, entered college at fourteen. 35 00:02:43,250 --> 00:02:45,730 Speaker 3: I'm telling you, Dear, he's not the type to just 36 00:02:45,810 --> 00:02:47,010 Speaker 3: go on the road. 37 00:02:47,370 --> 00:02:52,530 Speaker 1: Well maybe and maybe not. Young Dallas had been missing 38 00:02:52,570 --> 00:02:57,330 Speaker 1: for eight days already. William Deere called Dallas his parents. 39 00:02:58,010 --> 00:03:01,370 Speaker 4: Mister Dear, thank god you called. I'm so desperate about 40 00:03:01,370 --> 00:03:04,570 Speaker 4: my son. I don't know if he's committed suicide and 41 00:03:04,730 --> 00:03:08,450 Speaker 4: is lying in some ditch or what. Maybe he's been kidnapped. 42 00:03:09,250 --> 00:03:13,490 Speaker 1: Deer's team was soon packing for the trip to East Lansing, Michigan. 43 00:03:14,530 --> 00:03:18,130 Speaker 1: There was an expert pilot at a sniper Vietnam vette. 44 00:03:18,530 --> 00:03:24,970 Speaker 1: They assembled telephoto lenses, bugging devices, tracking systems, and spy cameras. 45 00:03:25,010 --> 00:03:29,210 Speaker 1: Deer himself was running through the possibilities. Most of them 46 00:03:29,330 --> 00:03:34,530 Speaker 1: were mundane. One of them would prove to be truly fantastical. 47 00:03:35,730 --> 00:04:05,290 Speaker 1: I'm Tim Harford, and you're listening to cautionary tales. The 48 00:04:05,370 --> 00:04:09,730 Speaker 1: simplest explanation of Dallas's disappearance was that the young man 49 00:04:09,770 --> 00:04:14,130 Speaker 1: had killed himself. That was William Dear's instinct. It was 50 00:04:14,170 --> 00:04:19,570 Speaker 1: also Anna Egbert's. According to Dear's account, she blamed herself. 51 00:04:20,530 --> 00:04:24,930 Speaker 4: Dallas called me on August twelfth. He was so happy 52 00:04:25,010 --> 00:04:27,850 Speaker 4: because he got a three point five and a computer 53 00:04:27,930 --> 00:04:31,850 Speaker 4: science course. I told him it should have been a 54 00:04:31,930 --> 00:04:32,810 Speaker 4: four point zero. 55 00:04:33,690 --> 00:04:37,650 Speaker 1: Deer's team started asking questions around the university. What they 56 00:04:37,690 --> 00:04:41,210 Speaker 1: discovered deepened the fear that this was a case of suicide. 57 00:04:41,930 --> 00:04:46,890 Speaker 1: Dallas was depressed, but Deer also asked what did Dallas 58 00:04:46,930 --> 00:04:50,290 Speaker 1: like to do with his spare time, his classmates said 59 00:04:50,290 --> 00:04:54,010 Speaker 1: that he liked computers. At the time, computers were rare 60 00:04:54,130 --> 00:04:58,610 Speaker 1: and mysterious, and Dallas did some other mysterious things too. 61 00:04:59,930 --> 00:05:04,330 Speaker 1: But then so did William Deer. For example, when he 62 00:05:04,370 --> 00:05:07,450 Speaker 1: received an anonymous tip that Dallas used to risk a 63 00:05:07,570 --> 00:05:11,170 Speaker 1: kind of thrill seeking day, lying down on the railroad 64 00:05:11,210 --> 00:05:15,090 Speaker 1: tracks and letting the trains pass over him, Deer decided 65 00:05:15,090 --> 00:05:18,530 Speaker 1: that he really needed to put himself in Dallas's position. 66 00:05:19,690 --> 00:05:24,210 Speaker 2: Literally, I laid down on railroad ties and tried to 67 00:05:24,250 --> 00:05:30,450 Speaker 2: imagine myself it was Dallas. Was this how Dallas fell? 68 00:05:31,730 --> 00:05:35,210 Speaker 1: His colleague screamed a warning the oncoming train had a 69 00:05:35,210 --> 00:05:45,290 Speaker 1: cattle catcher. William Deer scrambled off the tracks just in time. No, 70 00:05:46,330 --> 00:05:49,290 Speaker 1: couldn't have been a train. If Dallas had been hit 71 00:05:49,330 --> 00:05:52,090 Speaker 1: by a train, surely his body would have been found 72 00:05:52,170 --> 00:05:56,130 Speaker 1: soon enough. It did seem likely that Dallas was dead. 73 00:05:56,250 --> 00:06:02,930 Speaker 1: But if he was dead, where was the body? William 74 00:06:03,010 --> 00:06:05,970 Speaker 1: Deer couldn't rid himself of the suspicion that there was 75 00:06:05,970 --> 00:06:13,570 Speaker 1: something rather different behind Dallas's deay disappearance, something fantastically strange. 76 00:06:13,810 --> 00:06:18,970 Speaker 1: A game, a game that reportedly hundreds of students were 77 00:06:18,970 --> 00:06:24,050 Speaker 1: playing in dark humid tunnels beneath the campus a game 78 00:06:25,090 --> 00:06:34,050 Speaker 1: called Dungeons and Dragons. Now, William Dear didn't know what 79 00:06:34,130 --> 00:06:38,010 Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons was. Neither did Dallas' friends. 80 00:06:38,770 --> 00:06:40,970 Speaker 2: I don't know how to play it, but I do 81 00:06:41,090 --> 00:06:44,250 Speaker 2: know that you can't play if you're a dumbass. 82 00:06:45,370 --> 00:06:50,010 Speaker 1: But what kind of game is it? William Dear received 83 00:06:50,170 --> 00:06:54,770 Speaker 1: phone calls, There were rumors. He tried to piece together clues. 84 00:06:55,290 --> 00:06:59,970 Speaker 1: It was difficult to understand. You might find this bafflement odd. 85 00:07:00,610 --> 00:07:04,650 Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons is pretty mainstream these days. You might 86 00:07:04,690 --> 00:07:08,650 Speaker 1: well have played a game yourself, But in nineteen seventy nine, 87 00:07:09,410 --> 00:07:13,090 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine, Dungeons and Dragons was pretty much unknown. 88 00:07:14,170 --> 00:07:18,490 Speaker 1: Dallas's disappearance was going to change all that. As William 89 00:07:18,530 --> 00:07:23,090 Speaker 1: Deere explained in his subsequent book titled The Dungeon Master, 90 00:07:23,770 --> 00:07:27,490 Speaker 1: he wanted to get into those mysterious tunnels to search 91 00:07:27,570 --> 00:07:32,090 Speaker 1: for Dallas's body. In order to pressure Michigan State University 92 00:07:32,170 --> 00:07:36,610 Speaker 1: into giving access to a celebrity detective from Texas, Deer 93 00:07:36,810 --> 00:07:40,810 Speaker 1: frequently spoke to the press about his Dungeons and Dragons hypothesis. 94 00:07:41,410 --> 00:07:46,130 Speaker 1: The newspapers lapped it up, tunnels are searched for missing student, 95 00:07:46,850 --> 00:07:50,570 Speaker 1: reported The New York Times, explaining that Dallas might have 96 00:07:50,650 --> 00:07:54,410 Speaker 1: become lost in the tunnels, which carry heat to campus buildings, 97 00:07:54,810 --> 00:07:58,570 Speaker 1: while playing an elaborate version of a bizarre, intellectual game 98 00:07:58,770 --> 00:08:03,970 Speaker 1: called Dungeons and Dragons. If you've noticed there's a lot 99 00:08:04,010 --> 00:08:07,970 Speaker 1: of vague talk about this game, how it's intellectual and 100 00:08:08,170 --> 00:08:11,890 Speaker 1: bizarre and you can't play if you're a dumbass, but 101 00:08:12,130 --> 00:08:17,690 Speaker 1: no specifics, You're right. Dungeons and Dragons was a blank 102 00:08:17,930 --> 00:08:23,050 Speaker 1: canvas onto which parents, media critics, and celebrity detectives could 103 00:08:23,130 --> 00:08:30,450 Speaker 1: project any anxiety. In the informational vacuum. Rumors grew. Apparently, 104 00:08:30,650 --> 00:08:36,010 Speaker 1: people wore costumes. Apparently a dungeon master would lead quests 105 00:08:36,010 --> 00:08:39,650 Speaker 1: around the tunnels in the scalding heat and the darkness 106 00:08:40,170 --> 00:08:43,250 Speaker 1: and the stench. You'd have to put your hand into 107 00:08:43,250 --> 00:08:46,370 Speaker 1: crevices and there might be rotting calf sliver in there, 108 00:08:46,530 --> 00:08:50,970 Speaker 1: or spaghetti to represent an orc's brain, or they might 109 00:08:51,010 --> 00:08:55,810 Speaker 1: be treasured. Apparently there were more than one hundred dungeons 110 00:08:55,850 --> 00:08:59,490 Speaker 1: in the East Lansing area, And if you don't know 111 00:08:59,530 --> 00:09:03,730 Speaker 1: what that means, don't worry. William Deer didn't either but 112 00:09:04,010 --> 00:09:08,090 Speaker 1: he had a theory. Whatever this strange game was, whether 113 00:09:08,130 --> 00:09:11,810 Speaker 1: it involved dungeon or rotten liver, or all sorts of 114 00:09:11,850 --> 00:09:15,930 Speaker 1: other things that William Dear didn't understand, it might have 115 00:09:16,090 --> 00:09:21,130 Speaker 1: something to do with Dallas's disappearance. And since William Dear 116 00:09:21,290 --> 00:09:25,170 Speaker 1: was an investigator, heck he was going to investigate. He 117 00:09:25,290 --> 00:09:28,290 Speaker 1: called a hobby store, got the contact details of one 118 00:09:28,330 --> 00:09:32,730 Speaker 1: of these so called dungeon masters, and offered him fifty 119 00:09:32,770 --> 00:09:36,730 Speaker 1: bucks to drop everything and initiate Deer in the mysteries 120 00:09:37,290 --> 00:09:42,130 Speaker 1: of dungeons and dragons. Sixty bucks if it was good. 121 00:09:42,690 --> 00:09:45,450 Speaker 1: Back in nineteen seventy nine, that was a lot of money. 122 00:09:46,290 --> 00:09:49,970 Speaker 2: I didn't know what to expect from my dungeon master. 123 00:09:50,930 --> 00:09:53,810 Speaker 2: Would he show up in a Merlin castrome with a 124 00:09:53,930 --> 00:09:58,650 Speaker 2: funny pointed cap. I knew he would have complete control 125 00:09:59,250 --> 00:10:04,370 Speaker 2: over the circumstances of the fantasy adventure on which I 126 00:10:04,530 --> 00:10:05,850 Speaker 2: was about to embark. 127 00:10:12,410 --> 00:10:15,130 Speaker 1: When the young man knocked on the door, he and 128 00:10:15,210 --> 00:10:19,850 Speaker 1: his friend were both wearing jeans, sweaters and sneakers, and 129 00:10:20,050 --> 00:10:23,450 Speaker 1: rather than leading deer into the tunnels to mine for 130 00:10:23,530 --> 00:10:28,650 Speaker 1: Calf's liver, he pulled out a pencil and paper, some books, 131 00:10:28,690 --> 00:10:37,770 Speaker 1: and some dice. The adventure was about to begin. Cautionary 132 00:10:37,770 --> 00:10:47,930 Speaker 1: tales will be back in a moment. William Dear didn't 133 00:10:47,930 --> 00:10:51,010 Speaker 1: wear a pointy hat. He didn't have to dip his 134 00:10:51,090 --> 00:10:55,250 Speaker 1: hand into dark crevices in the tunnels under Michigan State University. 135 00:10:55,890 --> 00:10:58,930 Speaker 1: He just got into character, pretending to be a wizard 136 00:10:59,090 --> 00:11:03,610 Speaker 1: named Tor who was accompanied by a sneak thief named Dan. 137 00:11:04,730 --> 00:11:08,290 Speaker 1: Nor did Deer visit any tunnels. He just sat at 138 00:11:08,330 --> 00:11:13,410 Speaker 1: a table describing what Tor was doing. In his vivid imagination. 139 00:11:13,970 --> 00:11:17,770 Speaker 1: Tor and Dan got into various scrapes around a medieval town, 140 00:11:18,170 --> 00:11:21,730 Speaker 1: scrambling through an escape tunnel, pursued by some guards, being 141 00:11:21,770 --> 00:11:25,490 Speaker 1: attacked by giant rats, being taken prisoner by orcs, and 142 00:11:25,650 --> 00:11:30,370 Speaker 1: finally triumphing thanks to a combination of bluff and cunning. 143 00:11:33,330 --> 00:11:35,890 Speaker 1: All this took place in the Theater of the mind, 144 00:11:36,410 --> 00:11:39,970 Speaker 1: with the dungeon master simply describing what they saw and 145 00:11:40,050 --> 00:11:42,610 Speaker 1: with the aid of a few dice rolls, whether their 146 00:11:42,650 --> 00:11:48,010 Speaker 1: schemes succeeded or failed. In fact, the game wasn't nearly 147 00:11:48,050 --> 00:11:52,130 Speaker 1: as odd as all the rumors suggested. Yes, the stuff 148 00:11:52,170 --> 00:11:55,690 Speaker 1: about wizards and orcs is a bit strange, but then 149 00:11:56,050 --> 00:11:59,650 Speaker 1: Star Wars with its Jedi nights and dark powers and 150 00:11:59,730 --> 00:12:03,650 Speaker 1: the Mysterious Force had just been a smash hit. The 151 00:12:03,690 --> 00:12:06,250 Speaker 1: animated film of The Lord of the Rings had just 152 00:12:06,330 --> 00:12:10,850 Speaker 1: been released too. Nothing's more culture really mainstream than wizards 153 00:12:10,890 --> 00:12:17,170 Speaker 1: and heroes, dice pencils sitting around a table playing Let's 154 00:12:17,210 --> 00:12:22,650 Speaker 1: Pretend was all very tame, but William Deer had fun. 155 00:12:23,890 --> 00:12:27,650 Speaker 1: In fact, he worried that this game of the imagination 156 00:12:28,490 --> 00:12:33,530 Speaker 1: might just be too much fun. Maybe for a troubled 157 00:12:33,570 --> 00:12:39,210 Speaker 1: mind it could be dangerous. Dallas might actually have begun 158 00:12:39,290 --> 00:12:41,690 Speaker 1: to live the game, not just to play it. 159 00:12:42,090 --> 00:12:46,690 Speaker 2: Dungeons and dragons could have absorbed him so much that 160 00:12:46,810 --> 00:12:51,930 Speaker 2: his mind had slipped through the fragile barrier between reality 161 00:12:52,570 --> 00:12:57,690 Speaker 2: and fantasy. 162 00:12:58,210 --> 00:13:00,730 Speaker 1: If there is a time and a place that the 163 00:13:00,850 --> 00:13:06,010 Speaker 1: fragile barrier between reality and fantasy first broke down, perhaps 164 00:13:06,090 --> 00:13:10,730 Speaker 1: it was Saint Paul, Minnesota in nineteen sixteen. Behind this 165 00:13:10,770 --> 00:13:15,770 Speaker 1: breakdown was a young physics graduate named David Wesley. Wesley 166 00:13:15,850 --> 00:13:19,370 Speaker 1: was a founder of the Twin Cities Military Miniatures Group, 167 00:13:19,770 --> 00:13:24,890 Speaker 1: a wargaming club. Wargames are more realistic descendants of chess, 168 00:13:25,330 --> 00:13:28,850 Speaker 1: allowing players to re enact battles from history. With model 169 00:13:28,890 --> 00:13:33,330 Speaker 1: soldiers on a realistic miniature battlefield. Robert Lewis Stevenson, the 170 00:13:33,370 --> 00:13:37,570 Speaker 1: author of Treasure Island, was a wargamer, so as H. G. Wells, 171 00:13:38,490 --> 00:13:42,770 Speaker 1: wargames can be used for serious military training. David Wesley, 172 00:13:42,890 --> 00:13:46,090 Speaker 1: who was in the Army reserves himself, was interested in 173 00:13:46,130 --> 00:13:50,970 Speaker 1: these training exercises, where making decisions over a tabletop battlefield 174 00:13:51,410 --> 00:13:54,970 Speaker 1: might prepare a young officer for the real thing over 175 00:13:55,010 --> 00:13:59,810 Speaker 1: in Vietnam. To be useful, a training wargame couldn't be 176 00:13:59,850 --> 00:14:02,810 Speaker 1: restricted to a limited set of moves as in chess. 177 00:14:03,570 --> 00:14:06,410 Speaker 1: Players should be able to dream up all sorts of 178 00:14:06,530 --> 00:14:10,610 Speaker 1: tricks and tactics, which meant the game needed a referee 179 00:14:10,650 --> 00:14:13,330 Speaker 1: to use his or her judgment when a player tried 180 00:14:13,410 --> 00:14:18,210 Speaker 1: something unusual. The game of war was open ended and unpredictable, 181 00:14:18,730 --> 00:14:23,370 Speaker 1: just like war itself. In a wargame set in eighteen 182 00:14:23,410 --> 00:14:27,970 Speaker 1: oh six in the fictional Prussian town of Braunstein, David 183 00:14:27,970 --> 00:14:31,770 Speaker 1: Wesley took this open endedness to the next level. As 184 00:14:31,850 --> 00:14:34,890 Speaker 1: with a normal wargame, he put players in charge of 185 00:14:34,970 --> 00:14:39,290 Speaker 1: Napoleon's French army and the Prussian resistance, but then he 186 00:14:39,370 --> 00:14:43,850 Speaker 1: assigned rather more unusual roles. One player, for example, was 187 00:14:43,890 --> 00:14:48,170 Speaker 1: given the role of the chancellor of Bronstein's university. What 188 00:14:48,290 --> 00:14:52,810 Speaker 1: could he do well anything. He didn't command any troops, 189 00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:55,690 Speaker 1: but he could rally the students and urge them to 190 00:14:55,770 --> 00:14:58,610 Speaker 1: join the resistance. Or he could challenge another player to 191 00:14:58,650 --> 00:15:02,490 Speaker 1: a duel, perhaps over the affections of a lady. Another 192 00:15:02,530 --> 00:15:06,450 Speaker 1: player's character started in jail. Any of these players could 193 00:15:06,490 --> 00:15:11,970 Speaker 1: attempt anything. Wesley, as refere had to improvise. The experimental 194 00:15:12,010 --> 00:15:15,610 Speaker 1: game was a chaotic series of whispered conferences between the 195 00:15:15,650 --> 00:15:20,170 Speaker 1: players and Wesley, the referee. It took ages, and the 196 00:15:20,210 --> 00:15:24,370 Speaker 1: French and the Prussians never even fired a shot. Not 197 00:15:24,450 --> 00:15:28,410 Speaker 1: so much a war game as a phony wargame. Wesley 198 00:15:28,450 --> 00:15:31,530 Speaker 1: felt like it had been a flop. Then the players 199 00:15:31,530 --> 00:15:35,490 Speaker 1: told him they loved it. One of those players was 200 00:15:35,610 --> 00:15:40,210 Speaker 1: Dave Arnison, who seized Wesley's idea with both hands in 201 00:15:40,250 --> 00:15:43,970 Speaker 1: a follow up game set in a Banana Republic. Arnason 202 00:15:44,090 --> 00:15:47,530 Speaker 1: started as a student revolutionary, but managed to convince the 203 00:15:47,610 --> 00:15:50,890 Speaker 1: other players he was working for the CIA. He ran 204 00:15:51,010 --> 00:15:54,410 Speaker 1: rings around them, not by rolling dice or pushing pieces 205 00:15:54,450 --> 00:15:58,010 Speaker 1: around the map, but by acting the part and bluffing 206 00:15:58,010 --> 00:16:02,010 Speaker 1: his way to success. What Wesley and Arnison and the 207 00:16:02,050 --> 00:16:05,650 Speaker 1: group had invented together was a strange combination of a 208 00:16:05,650 --> 00:16:11,050 Speaker 1: classical wargame, a military training exercise, an improvised acting class. 209 00:16:11,810 --> 00:16:14,530 Speaker 1: It came to be known as a role playing game, 210 00:16:15,490 --> 00:16:18,730 Speaker 1: the first commercial role playing game, designed in part by 211 00:16:18,810 --> 00:16:22,650 Speaker 1: Dave Arnison. Could have been about Napoleonic battles or pretending 212 00:16:22,650 --> 00:16:26,170 Speaker 1: to be in the CIA, but it wasn't. It was 213 00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:30,930 Speaker 1: about heroes and wizards exploring the tunnels beneath a medieval castle. 214 00:16:31,330 --> 00:16:36,890 Speaker 1: It was called you guessed it, Dungeons and Dragons, and 215 00:16:36,970 --> 00:16:40,810 Speaker 1: it was dungeons and dragons that William Deer feared had 216 00:16:40,890 --> 00:16:45,010 Speaker 1: driven Dallas Egbert into some kind of delusional state that 217 00:16:45,130 --> 00:16:49,730 Speaker 1: he imagined he was a wizard. So does the barrier 218 00:16:49,770 --> 00:16:54,370 Speaker 1: between reality and fantasy break down in a role playing game? Well, 219 00:16:55,090 --> 00:16:58,450 Speaker 1: maybe a bit, But the same is true for novels 220 00:16:58,570 --> 00:17:01,970 Speaker 1: or movies. I don't watch horror movies. I don't like 221 00:17:02,010 --> 00:17:06,370 Speaker 1: the way they scare me. I cried uncontrollably at the 222 00:17:06,530 --> 00:17:11,890 Speaker 1: end of Cinema Paradiso. Did between reality and fantasy breakdown 223 00:17:11,930 --> 00:17:15,530 Speaker 1: at that moment? I suppose it did, But there's nothing 224 00:17:15,650 --> 00:17:20,130 Speaker 1: shameful or dangerous about that and yet there was something 225 00:17:20,170 --> 00:17:24,450 Speaker 1: different about these role playing games, something that drove America 226 00:17:24,690 --> 00:17:28,130 Speaker 1: into a state of moral panic. Maybe it was the 227 00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:31,290 Speaker 1: fact that, as I suppose I've just demonstrated, they are 228 00:17:31,410 --> 00:17:35,730 Speaker 1: quite hard to describe. But for many people it must 229 00:17:35,730 --> 00:17:38,370 Speaker 1: have been the context in which they first heard of 230 00:17:38,410 --> 00:17:43,170 Speaker 1: the game Dungeons and Dragons. Isn't that the game that 231 00:17:43,330 --> 00:17:47,490 Speaker 1: poor kid was playing when he died? Newspapers such as 232 00:17:47,530 --> 00:17:50,410 Speaker 1: the New York Times and the San Francisco Chronicle and 233 00:17:50,490 --> 00:17:53,330 Speaker 1: Examiner tried to get their heads around what the game 234 00:17:53,490 --> 00:17:57,690 Speaker 1: actually was and how people played it. Words such as 235 00:17:57,930 --> 00:18:03,810 Speaker 1: cult and bizarre were often used, but the publicity fueled demand. 236 00:18:04,450 --> 00:18:07,970 Speaker 1: The game briefly appears in Et, which was released in 237 00:18:08,090 --> 00:18:11,730 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two, and at the same time, but less favorably, 238 00:18:12,010 --> 00:18:15,770 Speaker 1: in Mazes and Monsters, a TV movie inspired by the 239 00:18:15,810 --> 00:18:19,530 Speaker 1: giddy media reports about Dallas Egbert's disappearance. 240 00:18:20,010 --> 00:18:22,330 Speaker 2: Tom Hanks and his friends get caught up in a 241 00:18:22,370 --> 00:18:25,570 Speaker 2: deadly game of fantasy until they'd take it too far. 242 00:18:27,890 --> 00:18:31,890 Speaker 1: In Mazes and Monsters, the young Tom Hanks plays a 243 00:18:31,890 --> 00:18:36,450 Speaker 1: teenager who completely loses his grip on reality while playing 244 00:18:36,490 --> 00:18:36,890 Speaker 1: the game. 245 00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:43,290 Speaker 3: This is only a game, Abody Mazes and Monsters seventy 246 00:18:43,490 --> 00:18:45,730 Speaker 3: three on ZTV Fox seventeen. 247 00:18:46,170 --> 00:18:49,650 Speaker 1: The other thing that happened in nineteen eighty two was 248 00:18:49,690 --> 00:18:54,770 Speaker 1: that a young man named Irving Pulling killed himself. His mother, 249 00:18:55,050 --> 00:19:00,890 Speaker 1: Patricia Pulling, was convinced that Dungeons and Dragons was involved. Indeed, 250 00:19:01,130 --> 00:19:05,890 Speaker 1: she sued Irving's school principle, claiming that Irving's suicide was 251 00:19:05,930 --> 00:19:09,010 Speaker 1: a response to having a curse put on his character. 252 00:19:10,010 --> 00:19:15,050 Speaker 1: Patricia Pulling even appeared on sixty Minutes. The creators of 253 00:19:15,170 --> 00:19:19,530 Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons complained that sixty Minutes had misrepresented two 254 00:19:19,730 --> 00:19:23,290 Speaker 1: other teenage suicides as being connected to the game, despite 255 00:19:23,370 --> 00:19:28,530 Speaker 1: letters from the bereaved mothers saying otherwise. In her grief, 256 00:19:28,850 --> 00:19:33,370 Speaker 1: Patricia Pulling described Dungeons and Dragons as a fantasy role 257 00:19:33,410 --> 00:19:43,810 Speaker 1: playing game which uses demonology, witchcraft, voodoo, murder, rape, blasphemy, suicide, assassination, insanity, sex, perversion, homosexuality, prostitution, 258 00:19:44,290 --> 00:19:51,250 Speaker 1: satanic type rituals, gambling, barbarism, cannibalism, sadism, desecration, demon summoning, necromantics, divination, 259 00:19:51,610 --> 00:19:57,010 Speaker 1: and other teachings. Now, a role playing game can describe 260 00:19:57,050 --> 00:20:00,650 Speaker 1: all sorts of activities, just like a novel or a movie. 261 00:20:01,530 --> 00:20:06,210 Speaker 1: But Harry Potter uses witchcraft, and not many people lose 262 00:20:06,210 --> 00:20:10,570 Speaker 1: sleep over Harry Potter. On the other hand, people seemed 263 00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:13,730 Speaker 1: willing to believe anything about this mysterious game. 264 00:20:15,410 --> 00:20:18,890 Speaker 2: There are sixes involved in the pieces of the. 265 00:20:18,930 --> 00:20:23,250 Speaker 1: Game, explained one religious critic of Dungeons and Dragons. The 266 00:20:23,370 --> 00:20:25,650 Speaker 1: number of the beast and all that. But I think 267 00:20:25,650 --> 00:20:29,170 Speaker 1: he was referring to dice. But it wasn't just the 268 00:20:29,250 --> 00:20:34,210 Speaker 1: hardline evangelicals who worried about Dungeons and Dragons. In nineteen 269 00:20:34,210 --> 00:20:38,210 Speaker 1: eighty four, a baffled police chief blamed a teenage suicide 270 00:20:38,210 --> 00:20:38,730 Speaker 1: on the game. 271 00:20:39,370 --> 00:20:42,530 Speaker 3: My understanding is that once you reach a certain point 272 00:20:42,570 --> 00:20:45,850 Speaker 3: where you are the master, your only way out is death. 273 00:20:47,050 --> 00:20:50,210 Speaker 1: This claim is analogous to saying that once you become 274 00:20:50,250 --> 00:20:53,650 Speaker 1: a tennis umpire, the only way to quit is to 275 00:20:53,730 --> 00:20:57,690 Speaker 1: kill yourself. It makes no sense, But if you know 276 00:20:57,810 --> 00:21:00,690 Speaker 1: nothing at all about the game, you don't realize that 277 00:21:00,730 --> 00:21:04,930 Speaker 1: it makes no sense. In nineteen eighty eight, tip A Gore, 278 00:21:05,610 --> 00:21:09,610 Speaker 1: then wife of Al Gore, claimed that Dungeons and Draggons 279 00:21:09,610 --> 00:21:13,970 Speaker 1: had been linked to nearly fifty teenage suicides and homicides. 280 00:21:14,890 --> 00:21:19,610 Speaker 1: But there are thousands of teenage suicides each year, tens 281 00:21:19,650 --> 00:21:22,210 Speaker 1: of thousands over the course of the nineteen eighties. As 282 00:21:22,210 --> 00:21:25,890 Speaker 1: a whole, Dungeons and Dragons was becoming a popular game. 283 00:21:26,370 --> 00:21:29,890 Speaker 1: Of course, some of those suicide victims would have played 284 00:21:29,890 --> 00:21:32,410 Speaker 1: the game, just as others would have listened to heavy 285 00:21:32,410 --> 00:21:36,650 Speaker 1: metal or been vegetarians. But people who should have known 286 00:21:36,690 --> 00:21:42,090 Speaker 1: better took role playing games all too seriously. In nineteen ninety, 287 00:21:42,370 --> 00:21:46,530 Speaker 1: the US Secret Service took the panic to the next level. 288 00:21:46,810 --> 00:21:50,170 Speaker 1: They raided the headquarters of one role playing games publisher 289 00:21:50,690 --> 00:21:55,370 Speaker 1: and confiscated their computers. The Secret Service had become convinced 290 00:21:55,570 --> 00:21:59,410 Speaker 1: that a role playing game about futuristic cyborgs and hackers 291 00:22:00,130 --> 00:22:04,290 Speaker 1: was in fact a practical guide for computer crime. This 292 00:22:04,610 --> 00:22:09,810 Speaker 1: was beyond odd. The game included rules for hacking computers 293 00:22:09,890 --> 00:22:14,130 Speaker 1: by plugging your brain directly into the net and uploading 294 00:22:14,170 --> 00:22:17,850 Speaker 1: your consciousness. It is a technique that seems unlikely to 295 00:22:17,930 --> 00:22:22,010 Speaker 1: bear fruit for any aspiring hacker. The US Secret Service 296 00:22:22,170 --> 00:22:25,570 Speaker 1: were unmoved right up to the point at which they 297 00:22:25,610 --> 00:22:31,930 Speaker 1: were successfully sued. Remind me who exactly is confused about 298 00:22:31,930 --> 00:22:39,850 Speaker 1: the boundary between reality and fantasy. From the vantage point 299 00:22:39,930 --> 00:22:44,210 Speaker 1: of today, It's easy to laugh, but perhaps we shouldn't 300 00:22:44,210 --> 00:22:49,530 Speaker 1: feel quite so smug. Back in February twenty nineteen, parents 301 00:22:49,530 --> 00:22:52,850 Speaker 1: were anxiously warning each other about a new threat to 302 00:22:52,890 --> 00:22:56,690 Speaker 1: their children. Please read this is real. There is this 303 00:22:56,730 --> 00:23:01,170 Speaker 1: thing called Momo that's instructing kids to kill themselves. Inform 304 00:23:01,490 --> 00:23:07,890 Speaker 1: everyone you can. That tweet received tens of thousands of retweets, 305 00:23:08,250 --> 00:23:12,650 Speaker 1: as did others similar warnings, but as with the Dungeons 306 00:23:12,650 --> 00:23:16,690 Speaker 1: and Dragons panic, the details were a bit vague. There 307 00:23:16,730 --> 00:23:20,970 Speaker 1: was an unsettling picture of a creepy puppet. One claim 308 00:23:21,130 --> 00:23:25,570 Speaker 1: was that somehow this puppet, Momo, would use WhatsApp messages 309 00:23:25,650 --> 00:23:30,930 Speaker 1: to deliver its deadly instructions. Another was that children's television 310 00:23:30,930 --> 00:23:35,250 Speaker 1: programs had been hacked, although what exactly that meant wasn't clear. 311 00:23:35,770 --> 00:23:40,250 Speaker 1: Schools sent out messages of warning, so did some police forces, 312 00:23:40,850 --> 00:23:45,050 Speaker 1: so did newspapers, even the BBC. In each case, the 313 00:23:45,090 --> 00:23:48,370 Speaker 1: evidence that there was a problem was simply that others 314 00:23:48,410 --> 00:23:51,330 Speaker 1: were reporting that there was a problem, and you can't 315 00:23:51,370 --> 00:23:56,130 Speaker 1: be too careful. Except that schools even gathered children together 316 00:23:56,290 --> 00:24:01,610 Speaker 1: to warn them about Momo, which was predictably, absolutely terrifying 317 00:24:01,650 --> 00:24:04,810 Speaker 1: for the children. You can see where this is going. 318 00:24:05,530 --> 00:24:08,970 Speaker 1: There is no momo puppet. That creepy image is for 319 00:24:09,170 --> 00:24:13,250 Speaker 1: a Tokyo Art Galleries exhibition about ghosts. There were no 320 00:24:13,530 --> 00:24:17,610 Speaker 1: hacked television programs. There have been no credible reports of 321 00:24:17,770 --> 00:24:22,570 Speaker 1: any Momo related suicides. I'm tempted to add there is 322 00:24:22,690 --> 00:24:27,370 Speaker 1: no Momo challenge, but that wouldn't be quite right. The 323 00:24:27,450 --> 00:24:32,010 Speaker 1: Momo challenge is very real, but it exists not as 324 00:24:32,010 --> 00:24:36,010 Speaker 1: a deadly game shared among children, but as a panicky 325 00:24:36,090 --> 00:24:40,810 Speaker 1: myth shared among their parents. What we're really talking about 326 00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:44,930 Speaker 1: here is the anxiety of parents who don't really understand 327 00:24:45,050 --> 00:24:48,090 Speaker 1: what their kids are into, and they feel bad about it. 328 00:24:48,890 --> 00:24:52,130 Speaker 1: That's just as true today as it was a generation ago, 329 00:24:52,930 --> 00:24:57,570 Speaker 1: when the panic was not about WhatsApp but about wizards. 330 00:25:01,810 --> 00:25:12,250 Speaker 1: Cautionary tales will return shortly. In nineteen eighty five, the 331 00:25:12,290 --> 00:25:17,810 Speaker 1: cultural critic Neil Postman published an influential book, Amusing Ourselves 332 00:25:17,810 --> 00:25:21,130 Speaker 1: to Death, in which he lamented the effect of television 333 00:25:21,290 --> 00:25:25,130 Speaker 1: on the intellectual, cultural, and political life of the United States. 334 00:25:25,770 --> 00:25:30,010 Speaker 1: Adapting an idea from his teacher Marshall McLuhan, Postman argued 335 00:25:30,050 --> 00:25:34,890 Speaker 1: that the medium is the metaphor that any communications medium, 336 00:25:34,970 --> 00:25:37,930 Speaker 1: from the spoken word to the written word to primetime 337 00:25:37,970 --> 00:25:42,930 Speaker 1: TV subtly influenced the kind of ideas that could be communicated. 338 00:25:43,610 --> 00:25:48,170 Speaker 1: Fifty years ago, movies and TV favored good looks and strong, 339 00:25:48,370 --> 00:25:53,370 Speaker 1: simple stories, and a former Cowboy actor, Ronald Reagan, was 340 00:25:53,410 --> 00:25:56,770 Speaker 1: the perfect fit for the time. It's easy to read 341 00:25:56,850 --> 00:26:01,050 Speaker 1: Postman as a profit of inevitable cultural decline, with each 342 00:26:01,210 --> 00:26:05,970 Speaker 1: new medium stupider than the last, But decline is not inevitable. 343 00:26:06,490 --> 00:26:09,970 Speaker 1: Consider how TV drama has been changed by the availability 344 00:26:10,210 --> 00:26:14,130 Speaker 1: first of affordable box sets and then on demand streaming. 345 00:26:14,810 --> 00:26:17,930 Speaker 1: TV producers would have to assume that people would miss 346 00:26:17,970 --> 00:26:22,210 Speaker 1: episodes and so would make simple, predictable episodic comedies and 347 00:26:22,290 --> 00:26:26,290 Speaker 1: soap operas. Now writers and directors can reasonably expect that 348 00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:29,370 Speaker 1: people will catch up on any episodes they missed, or 349 00:26:29,410 --> 00:26:32,810 Speaker 1: even binge watch an entire season in a weekend. The 350 00:26:32,890 --> 00:26:37,890 Speaker 1: result longer, more complex story arcs and characters who grow 351 00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:41,650 Speaker 1: over time. This isn't the result of some sudden cultural 352 00:26:41,730 --> 00:26:46,010 Speaker 1: hunger for more sophisticated storytelling. A subtle difference to the 353 00:26:46,050 --> 00:26:51,370 Speaker 1: medium also changes the metaphor. Movies invite us to value 354 00:26:51,370 --> 00:26:57,170 Speaker 1: beauty and classic story arcs. Streaming TV drama valorizes complex plots, 355 00:26:57,210 --> 00:27:02,130 Speaker 1: and character development, and reality TV thrives on attention seeking 356 00:27:02,210 --> 00:27:06,410 Speaker 1: and treachery. So then, what is the underlying metaphor of 357 00:27:06,450 --> 00:27:12,570 Speaker 1: a role playing game? Demand imagination. They're collaborative, You can't 358 00:27:12,610 --> 00:27:17,610 Speaker 1: really play by yourself. They're active rather than passive. If 359 00:27:17,650 --> 00:27:21,730 Speaker 1: you sit back and watch, nothing happens. You need to create, 360 00:27:22,330 --> 00:27:27,130 Speaker 1: not just observe the creativity of others. A collaborative, imaginative, 361 00:27:27,170 --> 00:27:30,970 Speaker 1: and actively creative pastime doesn't sound so bad to me. 362 00:27:31,970 --> 00:27:36,090 Speaker 1: After all, we're constantly being told of the importance of creativity, 363 00:27:36,610 --> 00:27:40,770 Speaker 1: the creative class, the creative economy, or simply the need 364 00:27:40,810 --> 00:27:44,490 Speaker 1: for every child to be creative in school. And yet 365 00:27:44,810 --> 00:27:49,210 Speaker 1: and we actually see some creativity, we can't quite comprehend 366 00:27:49,290 --> 00:27:55,810 Speaker 1: what we're looking at. Back in nineteen seventy nine, Dungeons 367 00:27:55,850 --> 00:27:59,130 Speaker 1: and Dragons seem to be a bit too creative for 368 00:27:59,250 --> 00:28:03,210 Speaker 1: William Deere and the journalists and commentators who were intrigued 369 00:28:03,250 --> 00:28:07,370 Speaker 1: by his theory. The story became bigger than Dallas Egbert himself, 370 00:28:07,970 --> 00:28:11,410 Speaker 1: and the question of what happened to Dallas was forgotten 371 00:28:12,090 --> 00:28:16,810 Speaker 1: long after the panic remained. Mazes and Monsters, for example, 372 00:28:17,090 --> 00:28:21,090 Speaker 1: the movie in which Tom Hanks, his character becomes utterly delusional, 373 00:28:21,450 --> 00:28:25,090 Speaker 1: stabbing someone, hallucinating monsters, and trying to leap from the 374 00:28:25,130 --> 00:28:26,570 Speaker 1: top of the World Trade Center. 375 00:28:27,170 --> 00:28:28,730 Speaker 2: Robbie, what are you doing? 376 00:28:28,850 --> 00:28:29,570 Speaker 3: I'm going to fly? 377 00:28:30,090 --> 00:28:33,370 Speaker 1: Is often thought to be loosely based on Dallas's disappearance 378 00:28:34,090 --> 00:28:34,810 Speaker 1: Don't you want to? 379 00:28:34,930 --> 00:28:35,770 Speaker 2: I do here? 380 00:28:36,690 --> 00:28:36,970 Speaker 4: Jat? 381 00:28:37,090 --> 00:28:38,610 Speaker 3: Why ageat? I remember? 382 00:28:39,810 --> 00:28:43,090 Speaker 1: Let's just say that in this case, the fantasy and 383 00:28:43,130 --> 00:28:48,530 Speaker 1: the reality were a very long way apart. Reading William 384 00:28:48,610 --> 00:28:52,490 Speaker 1: Deere's breathless book The Dungeon Master, it's easy to be 385 00:28:52,570 --> 00:28:55,930 Speaker 1: carried away with the tales of gadgets and stakeouts and 386 00:28:56,010 --> 00:28:59,090 Speaker 1: lying down in front of trains, But when you have 387 00:28:59,130 --> 00:29:02,810 Speaker 1: time to stop and read carefully, the story becomes a 388 00:29:02,850 --> 00:29:06,890 Speaker 1: lot more mundane. When I first heard about this steam 389 00:29:07,010 --> 00:29:12,730 Speaker 1: tunnels beneath Michigan State Universe, I imagine students exploring inside 390 00:29:13,010 --> 00:29:16,970 Speaker 1: huge steam filled pipes. But when I looked up steam 391 00:29:17,010 --> 00:29:20,570 Speaker 1: tunnels on Wikipedia, I was redirected to an entry on 392 00:29:21,210 --> 00:29:26,090 Speaker 1: utility corridors, which is a rather more prosaic name. The 393 00:29:26,130 --> 00:29:30,570 Speaker 1: corridors contain hot pipes, but nobody gets inside the pipes themselves. 394 00:29:31,570 --> 00:29:35,970 Speaker 1: William Deer describes the tunnels as stinking, hellish and deadly 395 00:29:36,890 --> 00:29:40,530 Speaker 1: Lieutenant Bill Wardell of the MSU Campus Police told The 396 00:29:40,610 --> 00:29:44,090 Speaker 1: Washington Post, they're hot and dirty, but not as bad 397 00:29:44,090 --> 00:29:48,170 Speaker 1: as he portrays them. Utility corridors have existed in various 398 00:29:48,330 --> 00:29:52,010 Speaker 1: universities since the nineteen twenties, and students have been messing 399 00:29:52,050 --> 00:29:56,090 Speaker 1: around in them long before Dungeons and Dragons existed. A 400 00:29:56,130 --> 00:30:00,530 Speaker 1: team of men, including William Deer, explored the tunnels thoroughly. 401 00:30:01,410 --> 00:30:05,330 Speaker 1: Dallas wasn't down there, but he had been missing for weeks, 402 00:30:05,930 --> 00:30:08,650 Speaker 1: and it was increasingly hard to see what rolling dice 403 00:30:08,650 --> 00:30:13,690 Speaker 1: around a gaming table had to do with that. Dallas 404 00:30:13,730 --> 00:30:18,250 Speaker 1: Egbert's parents seemed to publicly accept William Dere's media friendly 405 00:30:18,370 --> 00:30:22,090 Speaker 1: theory about a Dungeons and Dragons game gone wrong, but 406 00:30:22,290 --> 00:30:27,810 Speaker 1: Deer's investigations brought more straightforward possibilities to light. Dallas had 407 00:30:27,810 --> 00:30:30,970 Speaker 1: a drug habit, so perhaps a drug deal had gone awry, 408 00:30:31,690 --> 00:30:35,050 Speaker 1: and Dallas was also a member of the campus organization 409 00:30:35,210 --> 00:30:39,170 Speaker 1: for gay students. William Deer mused about how what he 410 00:30:39,250 --> 00:30:44,210 Speaker 1: called the gays might somehow have been involved in Dallas's disappearance. 411 00:30:45,210 --> 00:30:50,050 Speaker 1: More likely, Dallas's sexuality simply compounded his risk of self harm. 412 00:30:50,570 --> 00:30:54,450 Speaker 1: Even today, in our more enlightened times, gay teenagers are 413 00:30:54,530 --> 00:30:59,770 Speaker 1: at substantially greater risk of suicide, but William Deer made 414 00:30:59,770 --> 00:31:05,730 Speaker 1: the dungeons and dragons theory seem so compelling. The case 415 00:31:05,970 --> 00:31:08,850 Speaker 1: ended as it began, with a phone. 416 00:31:08,570 --> 00:31:12,930 Speaker 4: Call, mister Dear, this is Dallas. 417 00:31:12,890 --> 00:31:25,970 Speaker 1: And then Dallas burst into tears. Soon enough he was 418 00:31:26,010 --> 00:31:29,370 Speaker 1: reunited with his parents, and William Deer was fending off 419 00:31:29,410 --> 00:31:34,010 Speaker 1: a pack of newshounds desperate for the scoop. It was 420 00:31:34,130 --> 00:31:38,930 Speaker 1: simple enough. Dallas had indeed been severely depressed, and he 421 00:31:39,010 --> 00:31:43,650 Speaker 1: had indeed tried to kill himself. Fortunately it not succeeded, 422 00:31:44,490 --> 00:31:47,810 Speaker 1: but he had run away. When he called William Deer, 423 00:31:48,050 --> 00:31:51,050 Speaker 1: it was from all the way down in Louisiana, leading 424 00:31:51,130 --> 00:31:54,490 Speaker 1: Deer and his crew of elite operatives to fly over 425 00:31:54,570 --> 00:31:58,210 Speaker 1: in his private plane. They effect what Deer describes as 426 00:31:58,250 --> 00:32:01,810 Speaker 1: the tense rescue, but which on a second reading is 427 00:32:01,850 --> 00:32:04,450 Speaker 1: simply two grown men knocking on the door of a 428 00:32:04,490 --> 00:32:08,730 Speaker 1: rented room to find a tearful teenage boy ready to 429 00:32:08,730 --> 00:32:14,050 Speaker 1: go home. Later, Dallas told Dear the story over a hamburger. 430 00:32:15,050 --> 00:32:17,770 Speaker 1: Apparently he did like to hang out in the steam tunnels. 431 00:32:18,370 --> 00:32:20,290 Speaker 1: I could go down there and nobody would bother me, 432 00:32:21,050 --> 00:32:25,010 Speaker 1: and he also enjoyed playing Dungeons and dragons. When I 433 00:32:25,050 --> 00:32:28,210 Speaker 1: played a character, I was that character. I didn't bring 434 00:32:28,250 --> 00:32:31,010 Speaker 1: along all my personal problems with me. It's a terrific 435 00:32:31,050 --> 00:32:35,170 Speaker 1: way to escape. And while the media clung onto the 436 00:32:35,210 --> 00:32:37,450 Speaker 1: tale of a boy who had been lost to a 437 00:32:37,530 --> 00:32:41,890 Speaker 1: world of mazes and monsters, and evangelical campaigners warned of 438 00:32:41,930 --> 00:32:45,850 Speaker 1: satanic rituals and tip A Gore feared an epidemic of 439 00:32:45,970 --> 00:32:50,770 Speaker 1: D and D related suicide, the truth was simpler and 440 00:32:50,930 --> 00:32:57,330 Speaker 1: harder to bear. Dallas disappeared because he ran away. He 441 00:32:57,410 --> 00:33:02,490 Speaker 1: ran away because he was suicidally unhappy. Some young people are. 442 00:33:04,330 --> 00:33:07,130 Speaker 1: And I'm sorry to tell you that Dallas did not 443 00:33:07,530 --> 00:33:11,050 Speaker 1: recover from his depress He took his own life a 444 00:33:11,130 --> 00:33:16,410 Speaker 1: year later, but the narrative had moved on. An isolated 445 00:33:16,450 --> 00:33:25,690 Speaker 1: and depressed young man had been largely forgotten. I have 446 00:33:25,730 --> 00:33:29,730 Speaker 1: a confession to make. I too, am a role player. 447 00:33:30,810 --> 00:33:35,650 Speaker 1: I can't imagine you're terribly shocked, but I love these games. 448 00:33:36,610 --> 00:33:40,130 Speaker 1: To me, there is important a creative outlet as writing 449 00:33:40,170 --> 00:33:43,810 Speaker 1: my books or this podcast, and not everyone gets to 450 00:33:43,810 --> 00:33:47,330 Speaker 1: publish a book or present a podcast with respected actors 451 00:33:47,330 --> 00:33:51,450 Speaker 1: and its own composer, but anyone can be creative in 452 00:33:51,490 --> 00:33:54,530 Speaker 1: a game. I learned to play in the middle of 453 00:33:54,570 --> 00:33:58,290 Speaker 1: the Satanic Panic of the nineteen eighties. I remember having 454 00:33:58,330 --> 00:34:00,930 Speaker 1: to have a long conversation with a senior teacher at 455 00:34:00,930 --> 00:34:04,010 Speaker 1: my school who was concerned that the game might open 456 00:34:04,050 --> 00:34:08,250 Speaker 1: me up to evil influences. To his credit, he listened 457 00:34:08,290 --> 00:34:13,290 Speaker 1: and changed his mind, and I'm still playing games sometimes 458 00:34:13,290 --> 00:34:15,450 Speaker 1: with the same people I went to school with, some 459 00:34:15,530 --> 00:34:19,890 Speaker 1: of my oldest and closest friends. My hobby is a 460 00:34:19,970 --> 00:34:24,090 Speaker 1: pastime that's as creative as drawing, writing, or drama, that's 461 00:34:24,130 --> 00:34:27,850 Speaker 1: as collaborative as a team sport, that involves no drinks 462 00:34:27,890 --> 00:34:31,610 Speaker 1: stronger than coffee, no mind altering chemicals more potent than 463 00:34:31,890 --> 00:34:34,930 Speaker 1: whatever it is they used to flavor Dorito's and alas, 464 00:34:35,450 --> 00:34:38,650 Speaker 1: no sex at all. The kids tell me that these 465 00:34:38,770 --> 00:34:44,450 Speaker 1: days Dungeons and Dragons is cool. Maybe I'm just thankful 466 00:34:44,490 --> 00:34:50,730 Speaker 1: that despite everything, the hobby has survived and flourished. William 467 00:34:50,810 --> 00:34:55,050 Speaker 1: Deerre has survived and flourished too, penning works such as 468 00:34:55,530 --> 00:34:58,810 Speaker 1: OJ Is Innocent and I Can Prove It and appearing 469 00:34:58,850 --> 00:35:04,610 Speaker 1: in the TV documentary Alien Autopsy Fact or Fiction. He 470 00:35:04,730 --> 00:35:07,250 Speaker 1: was interested in the entertainment business. Back in the nineteen 471 00:35:07,290 --> 00:35:11,250 Speaker 1: eighties too. He had been urging Dallas and his family 472 00:35:11,370 --> 00:35:13,490 Speaker 1: to work with him on a movie about the case. 473 00:35:14,210 --> 00:35:16,770 Speaker 1: But as Dallas' mother Anna said. 474 00:35:17,370 --> 00:35:20,690 Speaker 4: It was never all that exciting. He just got on 475 00:35:20,730 --> 00:35:23,010 Speaker 4: a bus and went as far as his money would 476 00:35:23,010 --> 00:35:24,570 Speaker 4: take him. 477 00:35:24,650 --> 00:35:29,250 Speaker 1: Yet, when William Dear told the story, it was an 478 00:35:29,370 --> 00:35:36,050 Speaker 1: unforgettable tale, the fragile barrier between reality and fantasy. Indeed, 479 00:35:42,410 --> 00:35:45,970 Speaker 1: the key sources for this episode are of Dice and 480 00:35:46,170 --> 00:35:50,730 Speaker 1: Men by David Ewalt, and Playing at the World by 481 00:35:50,810 --> 00:35:56,330 Speaker 1: John Peterson, and of course The Dungeon Master by William Dear. 482 00:35:57,370 --> 00:36:14,330 Speaker 1: For a full list of references, see Timharford dot com. 483 00:36:14,650 --> 00:36:19,130 Speaker 1: Cautionary Tales is written by me Tim Harford with Andrew Wright. 484 00:36:19,730 --> 00:36:24,130 Speaker 1: It's produced by Ryan Dilly and Marilyn Rust. The sound 485 00:36:24,130 --> 00:36:27,650 Speaker 1: design and original music are the work of Pascal Wise. 486 00:36:28,330 --> 00:36:32,650 Speaker 1: Julia Barton edited the scripts. Starring in this series of 487 00:36:32,690 --> 00:36:37,890 Speaker 1: Cautionary Tales are Helena Bonham, Carter and Jeffrey Wright, alongside 488 00:36:38,010 --> 00:36:45,370 Speaker 1: Nazar Aldurazi, Ed Gochen, Melanie Gutteridge, Rachel Hanshaw, Cobner Holbrook Smith, 489 00:36:45,930 --> 00:36:50,890 Speaker 1: Greg Lockett, Massa Munroe and Rufus Wright. The show also 490 00:36:50,970 --> 00:36:53,770 Speaker 1: wouldn't have been possible without the work of Mea LaBelle, 491 00:36:54,050 --> 00:37:00,130 Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg, Heather Fame, John Schnaz, Carlie mcgliori, Eric Sandler, 492 00:37:00,530 --> 00:37:06,570 Speaker 1: Emily Rostick, Maggie Taylor, Daniella Lakhan, and Maya Knigg. Cautionary 493 00:37:06,570 --> 00:37:10,330 Speaker 1: Tales is a production of Pushkin Indo Strees. If you 494 00:37:10,450 --> 00:37:14,170 Speaker 1: like the show, please remember to share, rate, and review.