WEBVTT - Lonnie Bunch 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.880 Very special programming today featuring Lonnie Bunch, he's the fourteenth 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:09.360 Secretary of the Smithsonian, and David Rubinstein, host of the 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:12.920 David Rubinstein Show, a peer to peer conversations. Speaks here 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.280 from the Udvar Hazy Center that's part of the Smithsonian 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.560 Museum and it's near Dallas Airport. That's right in. Rubinstein 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:22.880 begins here by asking Bunch about being the first historian 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.680 and the first black person selected as the head of 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.800 the museum complex. Let's listen in. That's right. And I'm 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:30.760 very proud and glad to be with you today. And 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:32.920 I should disclose that I was the chairman of the 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:34.800 Smithsonian at one point. I'm still on the board of 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.839 the Smithsonian, but I will ask tough questions anyway. I 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:41.519 appreciate that. So, now that you've been the secretary for 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:43.720 a while, um, is the job as good as you 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:45.680 thought it was going to be? And you're happy you haven't. 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:49.159 I think that no one knew what it was like 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.960 to lead during a pandemic. But what has happened is 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.480 as a result of that, I really learned the wonders 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.240 of the Smithsonian. When it comes together, the Smithsony is 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:01.440 often a conglaborative, museums and research centers um and that 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.440 doesn't always blend. But because of this pandemic, people have 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:11.760 come together, cross lines, brought their creativity scientists, historians, educators. 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.959 So for me, I'm really glad because I'm getting to 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.600 see what the Smithsonian does, even in the most difficult 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.240 of times, when it comes together and brings its creativity 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.039 to bear. How did you operate during the COVID nineteen situation? 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:26.280 What did you do in terms of operating the zoo 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.959 and all the research institutions and your nineteen museums. What 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.120 I realized is that once we shut down the buildings, 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.080 that I needed the Smithsonian to still be operating. So 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:40.400 we really put went to everything online. We created educational opportunities, 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.959 portals that would allow people to educators to get our science, 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.080 our history, our art. We've made it so that scholars 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:49.360 could continue to do the research, the scientists could do 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.080 the work they needed to do. But the reality is 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.320 that we recognize that now as a result of this virus, 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.600 we've got to rethink so much about the Smithsonian. We've 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:01.760 got to rethink about how we tell a work more effectively. 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.440 We've got to think about once people come back. What 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.320 does social distancing meaning a museum? Because, as you know, 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:09.959 the major thing that happens in a museum is people 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.639 who don't know each other come together around an artifact 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.600 like the Shuttle. UM. And so are people gonna want 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.240 to come together um in a time of pandemic? So 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.480 we're really thinking about how do we create community even 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:25.520 in with social distancing. So the Smithsonian is not yet open. 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.720 You have two parts of it open. This museum is 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:30.520 open and the National Zoo is opened, right, Um? Why 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.720 did you open those two? First? I wanted to be 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:35.800 able to figure out how do we open the rest 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.040 of the Smithsonian. The zoo because it's outdoors, um, and 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.200 that was easier UM. But also this museum because it's 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:44.760 large and it also has parking, because there were issues 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:49.080 of transportation. So basically these were the test case which 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.880 will then if the if the virus then begins to 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.320 go down to allow us slowly to open the rest 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.160 of the Smithsonian. Now where did you operate from when 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.079 COVID nineteen was prevalent, Well, be coast there were some 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:03.680 guards that had to work. I thought I would go 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:05.520 into the office, but I realized that if I went 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:07.640 to the office, so many other people would come in. 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:09.919 So I ended up working from home and I learned 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:14.000 to master zoom um and sort of other technologies I'm 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.679 still fighting with, but basically work from home every day now. 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.880 Museums have been around for thousands of years, but now 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.800 with zoom and virtual technologies, why don't we really need museums. 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:26.399 Why can't you just look on the screen and see 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:28.560 what you need to say? I think there is something 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.680 powerful about the object. I mean, the fact that you 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.320 can see the Space Shuttle um right in front of 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:38.000 you is really powerful. You feel the connection. I've seen 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.120 throughout my career people stand in front of a copy 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:45.800 of the Emancipation Proclamation or Chuck Berry's candy Apple red Cadillac, 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.160 and it stimulates conversation. So that, in essence, what we 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.120 should do with the Smithsonian is find the right tension 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.880 between tradition and innovation. We have to recognize that the 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.640 traditional stuff is good and we want people to enjoy it. 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:01.160 But now we also recognized it as a result of 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:05.600 the pandemic, more people are comfortable receiving content digitally. So 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:07.520 it really means that we just need to find the 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.400 right balance between serving the millions that will never get 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.600 to a museum, and the millions that actually come to 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.880 the Smithsonian. Now, during the COVID closing of the museums, 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:19.760 we had some race riots in Washington and other cities 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.600 around the country, and reaction to the death of a 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:27.159 number of people uh such as George Floyd. Um, how 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:30.000 is the Smithsonian reacting to that? I thought it was 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.360 really important to realize that in some ways, the Smithsonian 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:35.719 is the glue that holds a nation together, and it's 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.120 the kind of place that can bring people of different 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:42.040 political points of view together. So when when all of 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.680 the sort of angst and the pains happened as a 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.440 result of the murder of George Floyd and others, I 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.719 realized that the Smithsonian had a role to pay, that 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.200 we should be a place that would help the public 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.160 grapple with the things that have divided us. So one 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.720 of the things we did was we got support from 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.640 Bank of American created a program that looks at race, 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.039 community and our shared future to basically say, how do 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.080 we create town halls an opportunity for people to come 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.760 together to talk about what is divided us? How do 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:12.760 we use the resource of the Smithsonian our expertise on 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.080 African American culture to give people the kind of historical 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:19.599 guidance to help them live their lives. Now, the Smithsonian itself, 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.839 what about the diversity in the Smithsonian workforce and your 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.480 executives who helped run the museums. I think the Smithsonian, 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:28.840 like many places, has a lot of work to do. UM. 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.840 I'm very pleased that we've got some diverse leadership. UM, 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.520 we've got strong, diverse, playful, and different parts of the Smithsonian. 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.800 But I think that the Smithsonian needs to do a 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.480 better job because if we're going to help the public 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:44.920 grap with these issues, we've got to model it. Now. 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.880 There's a story about the secretary of the Smithsonian when 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.120 they had the Lafayette Park riots or whatever you wanna 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.160 call them, that he was wandering around looking for artifacts 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:56.000 he could pick up and take to the Smithsonian. Any 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.240 truth of that, Old curators can't break their habits. I 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:03.800 was down um at Lafayette Square talking to people looking 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.400 at some of the materials on the walls, collecting some 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.440 for the Smithsonian, but really directing others, saying here's some 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.520 stuff we should have. Well, you're walking around there and 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.479 you're saying I'm the secretary of the Smithsonian. Can I 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.440 have this? And the police are saying, how sure? I 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.360 had to show my idea? Okay, so you've got you 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.640 didn't get arrested. So what's the biggest challenge you have 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.000 at the Smithsonian right now other than getting ready for 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.280 an opening again after COVID, what's the biggest challenge of fundraising? Gillingly, 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.720 Members of Congress, what is the biggest I think first 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.640 of all the challenges that to make sure that the 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:38.599 Smithsonian has the stable funding it needs. Because of the pandemic, 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.320 We've lost millions of dollars. People aren't going to the 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.640 restaurants and shops, which has an impact on our research 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.320 and on staff. So really trying to make sure we 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:51.039 have the strongest financial model, because what it really means 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.279 is we've got to rethink some things. So rather than 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:57.919 just reopen our shops, we've got to build more e commerce. 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.840 So this is really allowing us to think creatively about 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.400 what the Smithsonian should be. So let's talk about your 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.520 background a moment um. You grew up in New Jersey, 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.160 in the Garden State, Okay, in the Garden State, and 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:12.560 what did you want to be when you're growing up, 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.760 I assume not the secretary of the Smithsonian, right. I 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.040 didn't want I didn't know what the Smithsonian was, but 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.440 I wanted to do something with history. I've always loved history. 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.400 And the story that is an absolutely true story, is 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.239 that my grandfather died the day before I turned five, 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:28.880 and he would read to me, and he would read 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:30.840 books and one day was reading a book and it 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.120 had a picture of school children, um and it was 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:38.520 probably from the eighteen sixties, and he said to me 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.560 that the picture said unidentified children. And then he said 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:44.640 something I've never forgotten. He said, isn't it a shame 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.760 people could live, their lives, die, and all that says 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.920 it's unidentified. And that got me trying to figure out 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.720 how do I understand what their lives were like? And 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.080 I began to look at photographs as a little kid 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.400 and try to imagine what were their jobs? Were they happy? 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.160 And it got me interested in history. So that was 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.200 the first step. And the second step was growing up 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:06.680 in the town I grew up in. There were very 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:09.480 few African Americans. In fact, I was only African American 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.239 in my elementary school, and there were people that treated 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.520 me horribly and others that treated me wonderfully. And I thought, 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.040 if I understood the history of this town, maybe i'd 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.400 understand me. When you were younger, your father would drive 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:24.080 you to the South, but you couldn't stop in many 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.520 places except one place that he did take you. So 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.280 we would drive from New Jersey to visit my mother's 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.280 family in North Carolina. And this was in jim Crow Era. 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:36.040 So we would load the carp with food and blankets 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.520 because he knew we couldn't stop. Um and what he 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.320 was the only driver in those stop because did no 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.160 place they would let black people stop. Um And so 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.240 I remember he was falling asleep, and he pulled off, 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:52.800 and he pulled into a motor court. Um And and 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:55.480 he pulled in, and my mother my brother were asleep, 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:57.840 and I was watching him, and he went out to 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.560 smoke a cigarette and I noticed he was standing under 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.200 a sign that said white only. And I was terrified. 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.679 I thought something's gonna happen, and I was just the wreck. 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.880 He finally comes back in the car. He recognizes that 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.400 I'm really worried, and he said to me something I've 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.559 never forgotten. He said, you know, this is my America too, 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.000 And it reminded me that no matter what happened, this 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:21.520 is part of my country and I want to do 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.200 whatever I can to make it fairer. And did he 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:25.920 ever bring it to the Smithsonian? And why did he 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.120 bring you to the the Smithsonian? For me, when we used 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.840 to go south, we would go past the museums, would 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.640 say museums in Richmond and Petersburg. And like many kids, 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:37.120 I was a Civil War buff and so I wanted 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.959 desperately to stop, and he would always find an excuse 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.840 not to stop um. And on the way back, I 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:45.840 remember taking out a map and plotting, saying, Okay, they're 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.320 twenty miles before we get to Richmond or Petersburg, and 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.520 I would sort of alert him, but he would always 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.560 keep going. But then instead of driving straight to New Jersey, 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.320 he pulled into Washington, and he pulled in front of 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.439 the Smithsonian, and he said, here is a place where 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.120 you can go learn about yourself in a museum and 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.640 not worry about the color of your skin. So for me, 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.160 the Smithsonian was always a place of fairness that for 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:10.600 a twelve or thirteen year old kid, this was a 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.200 place that said to me, here you can be who 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:15.200 you want, You can learn all you want and not 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.000 worry about the color of your skin. So being secretary 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.240 in a way was my way of thanking an institution 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.560 that embraced me when a few places did. So, you 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.880 came to Washington get your undergraduate education at American University, 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.320 and I did my graduate work there. So you're an 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:35.760 African American mayle. And this was the nine seventies. So 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.280 are there lots of job opportunities? Uh, there are very 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.400 few teaching jobs. Um. And I remember at the end 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:46.480 of my graduate career. UM, I was broke. I was 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.120 living on a teaching assistant salary. And there was a 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.160 returning student, she was forty years old, um, and she 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:54.479 said to me, you should go down to the Smithsonian 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:56.719 because her husband worked there and you can maybe get 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:58.880 a job. And I remember saying to her, who works 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:00.920 at the smith selling it's way you take dates because 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:03.719 it's free. I mean that was my notion of the Smithsonian. Well, 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.760 I went down and the man her husband was the 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.440 head of science, David Challenger, and he introduced me to 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:11.800 the secretary. As still in ripley, I didn't know the 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.320 secretary was and I'm not going to get a job, 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.880 so I'm in jeans. I've got a big afro, and 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:18.640 I sit there because I'm not gonna get a job, 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.040 very comfortable. And we talked for two and a half hours. 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:24.240 Then he says, you know, we might want to hire you, 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:26.360 and I could really I said, I wouldn't mind working 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.680 at the Museum of History and Technology. And he said 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:30.520 to me, we don't have any jobs there. We only 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.600 have a job at the Air and Space Museum. And 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.640 I said, I'm a nineteenth century historian, I know nothing 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.080 about air space and I hate airplanes. And then he 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.760 said language that was so instructive to me as a secretary. 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.200 He said, young man, how much money are you making now? 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.280 And I told him. He said, you make four times 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:47.080 that if you become and work for me at the 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.360 Air and Space Museum. I said, I'll become an Air 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.240 and Space employee. And that's really how my career began. 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:56.040 By luck. You also met your wife there. Aeron Space 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.400 was everything I met my wife there. I learned about 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.280 how to be a curator there, um I learned about 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.559 the wonders of the Smithsonian. So for me, my whole 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.280 life has been shaped in part by the Smithsonian. So 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.040 you were recruited away for a while to go to 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.760 California and the museum there, and what was that um? 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.040 I went away to run to be the first curator 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.560 of the California African American Museum, was the first state 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.080 funded museum that explored issues of race. And I went 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.480 there before the Olympics of four. So my big job 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.719 was to do a major exhibitional history of blacks in 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.280 the Olympics. You know, the Smithsonian taught me how to 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:29.640 be a scholar, didn't really teach you how to be 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:31.840 a curator. You came back, but then you were recruited 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.400 away to run the Chicago Historical Society. So we moved 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:36.480 to Chicago. Is that right? That's right? I was. I 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.920 was at American History for twelve years and wasn't gonna leave, 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:44.240 and Chicago recruited me, and I really wasn't planning ongoing. 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:46.400 But I had a meeting with the mayor and the 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:50.400 governor of Illinois and they said, this is a city 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.200 that has been tortured by race, and if you could 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.520 come and be the only African American running one of 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.240 our major institutions and do well, what an impact you 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.439 could have. And that appealed to me, so I came back, 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.840 and I came to Chicago and loved it and had 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.439 planned to stay there the rest of my career. Um, 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:08.840 when I got the call to think about would you 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:10.400 like to come back and help build the Nashville of 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.800 African American History and Culture. So there was a secretary 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.520 then who called you, and that was Larry S Larry Small, 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.840 and he said, come back and build this museum. And 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.439 you came back and you ultimately took the job. But 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:24.319 why didn't you take it? Because there was no money, 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.280 there was no land, there was no plan, and did 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.560 you know all that? You know? I wasn't sure how 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.560 many knows there were. Um. I knew that there was 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.520 no plan, and I knew that there was no site, 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.600 but I didn't know there were no staff and um. 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.400 But what I realized is that being an African American 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.040 running a major museum in Chicago nurtured my soul. I 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.840 was really happy, but I realized that if I could 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.920 help build this museum, we could really both nurture the 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.640 souls of my ancestors, but we could help America really 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.920 grap with race. And that's what brought me back. Now. 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.640 The museum opened right the for President Obama left office 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:06.160 and that was two and a very memorable ceremony. But 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.160 before we got to that ceremony, you had to get 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.000 an architect, to build a building, get a site, raise 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.000 the money, and get the artifacts. So let's go through that. UM. 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.280 Let's take the money. How much the cost to build 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:21.600 that museum? The museum basically cost five and fifty million 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:26.880 dollars to build, um, and we raised about six to 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.680 do that. Half of it was paid by the federal government, 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:33.000 in half um by wonderful philanthropists and donors. Did you 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.200 ever think you could raise that much from the private 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.080 sector when you started? When I told my mother that 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:40.120 I had to raise that amount of money, she said, 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.880 that's more money than God can count. So I wasn't sure, Um. 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.880 But one of my great strengths is to be able 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:47.960 to sort of look at the big picture and then 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.200 put my head down and do the work. And so 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.400 slowly but surely it began to work. So when you 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:55.160 got the money from the Congress, and you got the 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.640 money from the private sector, and then you had to 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.640 figure out where the are you gonna put in the 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.800 museum and artifacts? How many artifacts did you inherit um? Zero? Um? 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.440 We had no artifacts whatsoever, and at some point I thought, well, 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.200 do we just do it without artifacts? But it's the Smithsonian. 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.080 People come to see the rights fly or the Ruby Slipper, 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.920 So we needed to find these objects. And I didn't 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.040 know exactly how to do it. And one day I 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.280 sort of fell asleep in front of television and I 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.040 woke up an antique road show was on. I had 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:25.560 never heard of it, and so I suddenly said, what 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.200 a great idea. So I sold the idea called it 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:32.040 Saving African American Treasures, and we took curators and conservatis 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.640 from around the Smithsonian and went around the country and 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.960 help people preserve grandma'sles show or that nineteent century photograph. 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.200 And then people would bring things out and say do 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.920 you want this? And suddenly we found amazing things that 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.680 I wasn't sure we could find. How many artifacts totally 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.120 did you get? We collected over forty artifacts, of which 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.240 about four thousand were on display, and seventy percent of 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.760 them came from people's came from basement's trunks and attics 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.400 of people's homes. Okay, and how many people have visited 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.040 so far? Over seven and a half million people, and 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.360 it's one of the few museums at the Smithsonian up 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.800 to now where you don't you can't just walk in 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:09.920 because you need tickets because it's demand is so great. 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.600 Um and did you expect the demand be that great? 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:14.760 I did, and I knew it would be popular. It's 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.800 the Smithsonian, but it really has become a pilgrimage site 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:21.760 for many people, for African Americans, for non African Americans. 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.440 And we expected four thousand people a day. We were 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.000 getting eight thousand people a day. So we had to 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.040 actually say you have to have tickets to get people 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.520 in because the crowds were so great. So every congressman 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:34.800 and center is calling it for tickets. Him, I am 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:39.920 everybody's best friend. Let's go back to the opening day 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.560 A right, so you've worked on this for how many years? 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.800 Eleven years? Eleven years? You started with nothing? It opens 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.960 in September of team and who was there? Who were 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.480 the dignitaries? It became a who's who? I mean? On 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:58.280 the stage was president and Mrs Bush, president of Mrs Obama. UM. 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.200 I was seated next to John Lewis, UM, the Chief 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:05.120 Justice was there, other super senior people from the Smithsonian, 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:09.960 Um and in the audience were who's who who's almost 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:14.040 every political figure was there, so many people from entertainment 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.000 and sport. And what I was so moved by is 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.160 the people who wanted to participate in the program, Oprah 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.639 Winfrey and Will Smith and Robert de Niro, so that 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.359 it really became more than I could have ever imagined. 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.560 It was less an opening of a museum and more 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.159 a celebration of a culture. So were you worried that 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.879 something would go wrong that day? I was terrified. I 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.520 was terrified that um I would mess up. I was 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:42.600 terrified that somebody would UM not enjoy themselves. I was 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.000 terrified that we wouldn't get the crowds that I hoped, 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.480 and instead we got tens of thousands of people on 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.280 the mall. Um it became an opportunity where I thought 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.119 some of the best speechmaking I've ever heard. I thought 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:58.240 President Bush gave a powerful speech about how um a 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.119 great nation confronts it's just three doesn't run from it. 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.760 President Obama talked, oh just beautifully about what this meant 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.640 to him and his family, but clearly the late John 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:12.560 Lewis stole the show, talked about how this museum was 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.600 the culmination of the civil rights movement for him, and 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.960 that this was really something that he was proudest of. 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.560 And I'll be honest, I was so grateful to be 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:24.000 able to help fulfill his dream. It was just a 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.399 special day. President Bush forty three had signed the legislation 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.880 with approved the museum, and President Obama was president when 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.320 it was open. I think he had to you make 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.800 sure it's open while I'm in office. He did. He 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.159 would say to me, you've got to let me clip 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.400 cut the ribbon, and so that was great. I would 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.359 go to construction people and say I was talking to 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.359 the President. He says, we got to move a little quicker. 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:48.399 So okay. So most people don't have a chance to 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.879 do two great things in life. One great thing is 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.880 pretty good for people. You built this museum. You deserve 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:55.679 the lion's share of the credit, if not all the 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.040 credit taken from nothing to this great museum. It's very 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.600 popular and so forth. Why did you want to be 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:04.240 Smith's of the Smithsonian secretary? Because, as your mother would 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:05.560 say to you, what do you need that for? You 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:07.520 already have a great job. And besides, you have the 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:10.000 best opposite in Washington. You have a great view of 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.399 the Washington Monument at the top of the African American 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:14.680 History and Culture Museum. Why did you want this job 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.399 because you told me to what I What I really 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:21.439 realized is that I loved what I did, and I 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.880 knew that I had the best view. I could see everything. Uh. 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.440 The story is, I took President Obama through the museum 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:29.280 and he came to my office and he said, you 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.040 got a better view than I do. And I said, 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.359 we only worked eight years. I worked eleven um and 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:38.880 but I realized that I didn't need to accomplish anything 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.919