Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up an
Speaker 4: SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 2: We're coming to you live from Atlanta, Georgia, and here
Speaker 2: we do SVU. We talk true crime and because of
Speaker 2: the strike, we do not have any guests, but no fear.
Speaker 2: We're Virgos and we will continue talking. And it is
Speaker 2: Virgo season. Oh actually, as this as this releases, it's.
Speaker 3: Not Virgo season anymore. It's Libra season. Damn.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but we are the forgotten Sign. If I'm
Speaker 2: being honest, Libra's like I remember playing a game where
Speaker 2: you have to name a name whatever, like you have
Speaker 2: to name all fifty states, and I always forget Connecticut.
Speaker 2: Now that you're in my life, I wouldn't, but I
Speaker 2: feel like Libra is the Connecticut of sign. Just like,
Speaker 2: what are you even about just hanging out there middle Fall?
Speaker 3: You mean nothing?
Speaker 1: They have that Libras are the scale, right, so are they?
Speaker 1: Like supposed to be balanced people.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Oh, I guess we love justice on
Speaker 3: this pod. That's true. Oh my god. Svu is a Libra.
Speaker 3: That's so wild.
Speaker 1: Okay, no, because it's beard on your birthday, my birthday.
Speaker 1: So s few is a virgo. Yep, fuck that s
Speaker 1: Few was born on my birthday. And we are coming
Speaker 1: to you live right now from not live, very unlive
Speaker 1: in the time machine.
Speaker 3: We are coming to you from Atlanta.
Speaker 1: Lisa and I are in a suite that has two bedrooms,
Speaker 1: and we are just in different rooms recording the podcast
Speaker 1: right now. I thought you guys might like to know
Speaker 1: that I can literally hear her echo outside of the
Speaker 1: room as she speaks. But last night we got into
Speaker 1: Atlanta early and we went swimming.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, at a at a.
Speaker 2: Pal's pool, and I think I had a special connection
Speaker 2: with the Black Lab, if we're being honest, she.
Speaker 1: Did Like this Black Lab was like, oh, this girl
Speaker 1: came to play and just did ninety thousand belly flops
Speaker 1: into the pool. Every time Lisa dove into the water,
Speaker 1: the Black Lab was like, yes, bitch, and like followed
Speaker 1: and jumped on top of her. It was wild. I've
Speaker 1: never saw Yeah, that. The people were like, oh, he
Speaker 1: will continue flopping until his paws bleed. Yeah, that's saying
Speaker 1: that the fur on his belly is gone because he
Speaker 1: cannot stop belly flopping. That he goes into the pool
Speaker 1: every single day. Yeah, basically we were in a dog pool.
Speaker 1: We were just we were using his pool.
Speaker 3: We were in his worlds. He's like, what are these
Speaker 3: bitches doing?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he had this little chew toy that was
Speaker 1: a piece of brie. Right, it was like a little
Speaker 1: wheel of brie. So we kept throwing the bree to him.
Speaker 1: Time's funny to do something so much that, like your
Speaker 1: humans have to take you in because your paws are
Speaker 1: just bleeding, but you just can't stop.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like, I don't know if there's anything I would continue
Speaker 1: doing until I was full of leaving, just bleeding and
Speaker 1: bleeding my body. No, couldn't be me. I guest smoking weed.
Speaker 1: But even then, my pawbeds are doing good.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: Your little paws are intact. Yeah, oh I want Oh sorry,
Speaker 1: what about the flight. Oh, it was a fun flight.
Speaker 2: And I loved being the gen Allians of the group
Speaker 2: in business class and watching you walk right past me.
Speaker 2: And I love that there's now a reference, like it
Speaker 2: would just be like, oh, I'm in first class and
Speaker 2: now I can go, oh, I'm just gonna be a
Speaker 2: little gen alliance today.
Speaker 3: Like that, she's come at us strong.
Speaker 2: I always love when the women of Real House has
Speaker 2: are a new franch or anything, they think they're gonna
Speaker 2: spin it and not be the villains. Like they thought
Speaker 2: we would all hate Jenna because she's rich and in
Speaker 2: first class, and instead we're like, leave her alone. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is real House says of New York, if you're
Speaker 2: confused by it. And they all got mad at this
Speaker 2: woman who's twenty years older than them. She's six feet tall,
Speaker 2: she has just had mouth surgery, and she has a
Speaker 2: skin condition, and so she went down early on a
Speaker 2: business class flight to get a little tam because she's
Speaker 2: feeling insecure, and these girls pounced on her, pounced on her.
Speaker 3: Can you imagine?
Speaker 1: It was like one of the most manufactured, boring storyline
Speaker 1: things I've ever seen. Like I think maybe a long
Speaker 1: time ago people would have cared about that. I think
Speaker 1: maybe like the Ramota bethany days, people may have cared,
Speaker 1: but it's like, I just don't think anybody cares about that.
Speaker 3: Kind of thing.
Speaker 1: They were not separate flights. They care though, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think it's manufactured. I think these bit are truly
Speaker 1: like jealous of her. They want to they think they're
Speaker 1: equal to Jena Lions. They're they're not self aware. They're delusional.
Speaker 1: They're delulu. That's a new word I learned. They're delulu.
Speaker 1: They're a little bit delulu.
Speaker 3: They so.
Speaker 1: I just as I opened my phone this morning, there's
Speaker 1: an article in the cut about Gena Lions and she
Speaker 1: has about like whether she could still form a beauty
Speaker 1: brand without ruining her reputation since going on The Real Housewives.
Speaker 1: I think she can because I think she's coming off
Speaker 1: very well on the show.
Speaker 3: And she said an interesting thing.
Speaker 1: Now of course I can't find it, but it was
Speaker 1: something along the lines of like, I'm twenty years older
Speaker 1: than these women, like I have spent a really long
Speaker 1: time like thinking before I speak, like trying to be professional,
Speaker 1: trying to be a boss, and then these like thirty
Speaker 1: six year old women come on the show and are
Speaker 1: just like why, Like, so, she's not going to be
Speaker 1: exactly like you guys. She's not going to come out
Speaker 1: with like all of her personal information on the pilot,
Speaker 1: you know, like that's just not how she has come up,
Speaker 1: which I respect, you know come up.
Speaker 2: It's like they're just like, honey, we're not posting her
Speaker 2: stuff for free. And it's like she was the head
Speaker 2: of j crew and work there for twenty seven Who
Speaker 2: do you think you are? She's remodeling Rockefeller Center, Like,
Speaker 2: I just don't get Sometimes someone is better than you,
Speaker 2: and it's it's better to admit it than to fight
Speaker 2: it and go.
Speaker 1: How is the Four Seasons Jenna? It was honestly worse
Speaker 1: than her house?
Speaker 3: How about that?
Speaker 2: Like she's Jenna Fucking Lions and she's coming off stylish.
Speaker 3: I want to know everything she's doing at every moment.
Speaker 2: I don't believe she says shy and goody goody, because
Speaker 2: I've heard stories of her in the boardroom. Right, So yeah,
Speaker 2: this whole like I've never been on a girl's trip.
Speaker 2: It's like you've never been to Dinah Shore. I don't
Speaker 2: buy it. I don't buy it.
Speaker 3: That's so true.
Speaker 1: JFL used to stand for Just for Laughs Comedy Festival,
Speaker 1: but now Jenna Fucking Lions. Everyone's use it, throwing JFL
Speaker 1: around everywhere. I was wondering how you're gonna connect to
Speaker 1: the festival. Is what happened right now. But we took
Speaker 1: a turn. Wait, speaking of taking a turn, I don't.
Speaker 1: I just want to shout out a friend of the pod.
Speaker 1: If you came to our very first LA show, he
Speaker 1: sold you merch. My dear friend from high school, Jed.
Speaker 1: He listens to the pod. He just had a surprise
Speaker 1: medical procedure. I'll say, And I just want to say
Speaker 1: hi Jed, and I hope you're doing great, and I
Speaker 1: hope everybody can send collective love and good good vibes
Speaker 1: to my friend Jed. Jed word my friend since third grade.
Speaker 1: They were both you probably know this biggest gossips in
Speaker 1: yeah school superlatives. That was our superlative baby, and nothing's changed.
Speaker 1: Tell us your secrets say nothing. Should we start to
Speaker 1: text us your secrets?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: I sort of love the idea of like a phone line,
Speaker 1: like a Google voice line for the pod, and people
Speaker 1: just call of us and text us. They tell us
Speaker 1: our secrets in their DA and the dms. We get
Speaker 1: some secrets loose on the insta. I guess a more
Speaker 1: not fun thing, but also good. Danny Masterson getting thirty
Speaker 1: years is I've heard of, because no one gets thirty years.
Speaker 1: It's usually like, did you rape a family, here's a
Speaker 1: couple months, Like it never works out. So it is
Speaker 1: so disappointing that all these letters of support came out
Speaker 1: when it's like, you don't get thirty years when you're
Speaker 1: a white, rich person in scientology.
Speaker 3: If you didn't do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there must have been like a lot of
Speaker 1: proof because this is that is a sentence. That is
Speaker 1: quite a sentence, And I guess we learned a lesson.
Speaker 1: Do not write character letters for rapists who cares if
Speaker 1: they're your friend or sibling or cause what are you
Speaker 1: talking about? You fucking yeah, somebody like this guy I
Speaker 1: follow on Instagram that I love, Matt XIV. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they have this great Instagram and I always love what
Speaker 1: they post. And one of the things was every single
Speaker 1: person that's ever raped or murdered someone has been nice
Speaker 1: to another person in their life, Like you can still
Speaker 1: be an abuser and be nice to other people, Like
Speaker 1: it's just crazy to be like I know one thousand
Speaker 1: percent that this person didn't do this because they were
Speaker 1: on a TV show with me and I liked them. Then,
Speaker 1: like it's just so you also know, they're part of
Speaker 1: a extremely shady religion that hides the truth all the
Speaker 1: time and investigates people and does intimidation campaigns. So it's
Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm even talking this much about scientology
Speaker 1: because they truly freak me out. But please don't come
Speaker 1: for me scientology. I can't handle it. I'm just happy
Speaker 1: that Leah Remni keeps surviving because that's good. Yeah, she's
Speaker 1: almost like too high profile now if they do something
Speaker 1: to her, it's like too shady. Yeah, I just and
Speaker 1: what we learned from as you so much in the
Speaker 1: real world and all the cases, it's like a lot
Speaker 1: of abusers purposely are trusting members of the community. That's
Speaker 1: how you build trust and get people to you know,
Speaker 1: not tell or no one trusts you, Like of course
Speaker 1: everyone's gonna believe if like Rusty the pervert from the shack, you.
Speaker 3: Know, behind in the woods. Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: There's a reason it's pastors. There's a reason it's people
Speaker 1: that are really nice on set, you know. But their
Speaker 1: apology was so wild because in it they're like, we
Speaker 1: just thought this was for the judge.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh so secret.
Speaker 2: Okay, No, they seem like more like especially her, she
Speaker 2: seems annoyed to even have to be talking about it, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: we support victims, and we thought it was for the judge. Okay,
Speaker 2: so stop it, like we support, We're not trying to
Speaker 2: invalidate what they said. And it's like you are and
Speaker 2: your attitude is weird. You stood up for a rapist, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know why you're not more ashamed? Annoyed is
Speaker 2: not the right.
Speaker 1: A adjective culture has an organization that literally fights shady.
Speaker 3: It's shade is well, it's not shady.
Speaker 2: I'm sure he's done amazing work, but it's a tech company.
Speaker 2: It's a FA facial recognition software that works in helping
Speaker 2: victims of human trafficking, but I think it does fuck
Speaker 2: over sex workers as well. He has saved young girls,
Speaker 2: that is great, But remember the SVU with that the
Speaker 2: guy who is helping the and he wanted he pretended
Speaker 2: to want to have sex with Olivia Benson and he
Speaker 2: was like, my sister's dead. I must fight all the pedophiles.
Speaker 2: But with Steve Tabolowski, Oh right, right, what episode is that?
Speaker 2: But whatever, We've covered it. Stephen has been a guest,
Speaker 2: but it's the guy who's like, oh, I'm here to
Speaker 2: help people, and he's the one.
Speaker 3: So no, I don't.
Speaker 1: I think they're I think in the organization and is great.
Speaker 1: I think he is trying to save children and people
Speaker 1: from human trafficking. But it is a software company. You
Speaker 1: never trust the rich like you never trust the rich.
Speaker 2: And then it's also like the George Clooney of it all,
Speaker 2: where it's like, I don't trust a pranker.
Speaker 3: A branker, Yeah you did punked.
Speaker 1: I'm not trusting you a prank Once in a while,
Speaker 1: it's the right moment. Oh she's coming back, let's all hide.
Speaker 2: But someone that's like Ellen Ellen is another notorious pranker,
Speaker 2: like not to be trusted.
Speaker 3: Don't trust the franker. They're sociopaths.
Speaker 2: They don't feel anything, so they need to like scare
Speaker 2: people to feel anything, and they like being in control
Speaker 2: of your emotions. Don't trust someone that's like a dick
Speaker 2: to There's actually someone at the comedy club at before
Speaker 2: Matt and this motherfucker, I don't trust him anymore because
Speaker 2: this is he'll pull these things where he'll go, what
Speaker 2: are you doing?
Speaker 1: They just called your name on stage and so then
Speaker 1: you just start running like a crazy person. And yes,
Speaker 1: I'm kidding. And no matter how much you know he
Speaker 1: does this shit it like he is so good at it.
Speaker 2: He will just say stuff that isn't true you believe
Speaker 2: it or reactor start running and then he'll laugh And
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, okay, so you've committed crimes, right, you
Speaker 2: keep the secrets, you punk and you punk bitch. I
Speaker 2: did watch Punk. I liked watching justin Timberlake, cry should
Speaker 2: should we start this?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Start, But before we get going, let's just remind you
Speaker 1: of sas. We gotta tell the people we are coming
Speaker 1: to you very soon. Buffalo on the eighth of October,
Speaker 1: new Haven, Connecticut on the tenth of October, Burlington on
Speaker 1: the twelfth of October, then a few days later we
Speaker 1: got Cleveland on the eighteenth, Boston on the nineteenth. Boston,
Speaker 1: gets your asses out there. We are playing a very
Speaker 1: large venue and we need but in the seats. And
Speaker 1: then Ronto for the first time on the twenty fourth,
Speaker 1: Detroit on the twenty fifth, and Pittsburgh on the twenty sixth. Obviously,
Speaker 1: tons more dates coming up in November and December, but
Speaker 1: that's our October schedule. And we really hope that you
Speaker 1: guys will come out and see us because we're so excited. Honestly,
Speaker 1: we just did our first few shows of the tour
Speaker 1: and they've been so freaking fun already. You guys are
Speaker 1: the best listeners and audience members, and we love giving
Speaker 1: you a live show, so come see us. And we're
Speaker 1: getting good. We're really getting good. We have a good
Speaker 1: time at these shows. We shin yeah, and all the
Speaker 1: information is that that's messed up live dot com, so
Speaker 1: you can head over there to see where we're going.
Speaker 1: When we're going, where to get ticks. This episode is
Speaker 1: a classic. We're excited, let's get going.
Speaker 3: Okay, here we go.
Speaker 2: We're doing Futility season four, episode twenty two, and we're
Speaker 2: starting at a poker night. Love that they're playing Texas
Speaker 2: hold them. Love that even more. And it's the Wonder
Speaker 2: Years actor. And he is being nuzzled on by a
Speaker 2: woman during the game, so that's cute. He's wearing a
Speaker 2: wedding band, so you know they're probably married. And I
Speaker 2: love wardrobe and storytelling. Very cool and his and his
Speaker 2: name is Fred Savage. I will be calling him multiple
Speaker 2: other things. Besides, I have an old and his brother
Speaker 2: Ben Savage is from boy Meet's World.
Speaker 3: Right yeah.
Speaker 1: And then I think only one of them is a rapist,
Speaker 1: right yeah, but you guys can guess which one.
Speaker 3: I guess. We're not allowed to.
Speaker 1: Say, well, because it's alleged or what. I think it's alleged.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's rapist. It's like me too,
Speaker 1: he got like me to I think he was inappropriate
Speaker 1: at work. I don't know if he actually went.
Speaker 3: Well did I tell you?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: But did I tell you?
Speaker 2: At the comedy store, I was doing a joke and
Speaker 2: someone yelled I don't know if I've talked about on
Speaker 2: this show. This was like last month, but someone from
Speaker 2: the audience yelled out, you've never been dick raped?
Speaker 3: Did I not tell you to you?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I was on stage.
Speaker 2: I was doing like my false rape accusation joke or whatever,
Speaker 2: just knute the backs or whatever.
Speaker 3: I was working.
Speaker 1: I was working on a bit, and some dude just
Speaker 1: yelled out, whatever, you've never been dick raped? And so
Speaker 1: I just said, oh, you have to go, and so
Speaker 1: I kicked him out, like I that's not even I
Speaker 1: don't know what he meant by it, and I wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna find even the whole audience was like, ugh, no
Speaker 1: one liked it. And then one of the door guys
Speaker 1: who's a comment, came up to me after and he
Speaker 1: said that it took five security guards to make this
Speaker 1: guy leave.
Speaker 3: He would not leave.
Speaker 2: And I also, usually I like dealing with Heckler, but
Speaker 2: it was just like, I can't even deal with you.
Speaker 2: But I guess when they were kicking him out, he said,
Speaker 2: what what's wrong with yelling to a female comedian about
Speaker 2: dick rape? Like he didn't understand, And then they found
Speaker 2: his scariest part, and then they found him tweeting about
Speaker 2: the comedy store and he wrote, I just got kicked
Speaker 2: out of the comedy store for yelling dick rape, and
Speaker 2: then he used the emoji of like the shrugging of
Speaker 2: the shoulders.
Speaker 3: Like huh. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: Like you can't say anything in this world anymore, you know,
Speaker 1: these libs.
Speaker 3: You just can't say anything.
Speaker 2: You can't yell at a woman you've never been dick raped.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what it means. It was very wild.
Speaker 2: I mean, oh, yeah, misconduct on the former, Yeah, allegations
Speaker 2: of misconducts whatever. So there's tons of articles I'm looking
Speaker 2: at the Times they have a look a closer look.
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, I didn't want to
Speaker 2: give them time because it's just like, I don't care,
Speaker 2: you know, if you're if you're fucking up and not
Speaker 2: treating women right.
Speaker 1: Well, I do think that this one, I'm glad we're
Speaker 1: addressing it because I do think this one flew under
Speaker 1: the radar, and I wouldn't want people to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: we thought you'd get Fred Savage as your guests, because
Speaker 1: we're not. We're usually not really having people with uh
Speaker 1: misconduct allegations on the pod.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess I mean the La Times says
Speaker 2: that they've been dealing with accusations of inappropriate behavior on
Speaker 2: set since he was sick.
Speaker 3: Because he went from an actor to a director.
Speaker 1: He's directed a lot of episodes of Modern Family, like
Speaker 1: he's I think more so has been focusing on directing
Speaker 1: in the later part of his career than on acting.
Speaker 1: Though he was in a great show called The Grinder
Speaker 1: that I was obsessed with with Rob Low that did
Speaker 1: not get its true flowers.
Speaker 3: I feel in the television business. It was such a
Speaker 3: funny sitcom.
Speaker 1: With where he plays a lawyer Rob Low plays his
Speaker 1: brother who's an actor who's played a lawyer, and he
Speaker 1: like moves back to the town and starts to be
Speaker 1: a lawyer.
Speaker 3: It's really funny. I always wild.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize some of the suits go back to
Speaker 2: like nineteen ninety three, ninety four. I thought it was
Speaker 2: like some of these are And then twenty eighteen, speaking
Speaker 2: of the Grinder, someone worked in the wardrobe department on
Speaker 2: The Grinder sued him too ooh, and that it was
Speaker 2: alleged to salt and battery by the actor and he
Speaker 2: was aggressive, intimidation, constant use of profanity aimed towards female employees.
Speaker 3: Yuck. Helloa.
Speaker 2: One was that he violently struck her arm three times
Speaker 2: and asked her to brush dandruff off the shoulders of
Speaker 2: his suit. He says, untrue, these are no merit. I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously the case was dismissed.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 1: If you want to know more information on him, obviously
Speaker 1: you know the la times.
Speaker 3: You guys do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why we're doing the episode. And we can't
Speaker 1: have guests if you're wondering, because we're not gonna have him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So that was a nice aside and
Speaker 2: hopefully none of you are mad at us, but I
Speaker 2: can I see it coming, all right, So buzz buzz.
Speaker 2: Someone's at the door of this apartment with the poker
Speaker 2: game and the Wonder Years. Guy goes to open it,
Speaker 2: but it's really choppy sounding on the intercom, so he's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'll just go downstairs to get the food. He opens
Speaker 2: the door, nobody's outside, and then we hear the sounds
Speaker 2: of the city and then we see the food ten
Speaker 2: feet away on the sidewalk, just like on the bottom,
Speaker 2: like on the bottom on the ground. This is a
Speaker 2: bag of Chinese. I also assume it's Chinese food, but
Speaker 2: I don't know what it.
Speaker 3: Is Chinese too.
Speaker 2: I didn't know why because this is also old and
Speaker 2: I feel like back in the day, the only things
Speaker 2: you really got delivered was pizza or Chinese.
Speaker 3: Right, And if it was pizza, you'd see the box, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, I mean you can get a fucking bubble tea delivered,
Speaker 2: but back in the day it was way more limited.
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe a diner, you know, maybe.
Speaker 1: Sending you your birthday cupcakes was actually the first time
Speaker 1: I ever sent anything with Postmates that wasn't like food,
Speaker 1: like just regular food. You know, I like never sent
Speaker 1: a gift or anything by that, so you can really
Speaker 1: do anything these days. Yeah, I well, because the funny thing,
Speaker 1: I didn't include the card, so I didn't.
Speaker 3: I was not happy with them. They did not include
Speaker 3: the card.
Speaker 2: But what I loved about getting those cupcakes is I
Speaker 2: always send those cupcakes to everyone, but I never taste them.
Speaker 2: So I got to finally taste all the flavors I've
Speaker 2: been sending people all these years, So now for you, baby.
Speaker 2: So it was exciting. But he so he decides that
Speaker 2: he's gonna still pick up the food, even though this
Speaker 2: is obviously creepy, like the food is away from your door,
Speaker 2: no one is there.
Speaker 3: Boo.
Speaker 2: It's Stabler and Benson and he's under arrest and Finn.
Speaker 2: He's confused why he's being arrested and assures to them like, oh,
Speaker 2: you got the wrong guy. Benson goes, it's rape. You're
Speaker 2: being arrested for rape, and then he punches her in
Speaker 2: the face.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, fucking crazy.
Speaker 1: Your toast, dude, is the whole reason they're doing this
Speaker 1: little like ruse because of that whole thing that we've
Speaker 1: talked about before where you can't be arrested in your
Speaker 1: own house or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, correct. I just don't get that.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've seen them show up at other
Speaker 1: people's houses and say you're under arrest before.
Speaker 3: But maybe it's more of a warrant situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, or no, it's usually at a banquet,
Speaker 1: it's usually at an event.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not enough way.
Speaker 2: They're not arresting people in the home unless they're actively
Speaker 2: doing it. But yeah, I don't know, but I think
Speaker 2: that's why ruse for sure. Yeah, and he decides to
Speaker 2: punch Benson in the face. The wife runs out and says,
Speaker 2: what are you doing? That's my husband. And it's like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: I guess we'll stop arresting him since that's your husband.
Speaker 1: We don't care, we don't know you know him. He
Speaker 1: just cold cocked a cop, you dumb bitch.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He tells her to contact their lawyer, and as he's
Speaker 2: carried away, she asks, why are you arresting him? And
Speaker 2: Stabler turns around and says, your husband raped four women.
Speaker 2: Finn says, your dinner is here, it's on the NYPD
Speaker 2: love that her mouth is open. She is stunned and
Speaker 2: I'm wanting some sweet and sour chicken. Okay, but I
Speaker 2: think this is what I wrote here. I think that
Speaker 2: sushi is the best poker food because it's chopsticks, no hands,
Speaker 2: no mess, easy compact, Like you're not gonna get grease
Speaker 2: on the cards.
Speaker 3: It's and nothing's gonna drip. And that's why we're having
Speaker 3: sushi the first night we're going to Vegas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I don't want to get any grease on
Speaker 1: my poker chips.
Speaker 3: Wait when does this episode air right before? Oh? This one?
Speaker 3: Are we back? We're back, we'll be back. We'll be
Speaker 3: back from Vegas. Yeah, we'll well, you'll hear. That's what's
Speaker 3: gonna be wild.
Speaker 1: You'll hear about Vegas in the intro maybe or maybe
Speaker 1: not next week.
Speaker 2: It's wild. Someone I did see a comment from someone.
Speaker 2: They're like, we hate the time machine, and it's like, well,
Speaker 2: that's how things work.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, we can't
Speaker 3: do it live, but I don't know we'll do it live.
Speaker 2: We can't, we can't, we can't. Who's that's not enough
Speaker 2: time to edit out all of our ums likes?
Speaker 1: Uh? Uh yeah, Casey needs weeks to do it to
Speaker 1: make us sound listenable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So she uh whatever, So rapist Chinese foods Soushi's
Speaker 2: the best. Now we have the older savage brother sitting
Speaker 2: in a cement room with bars and he it looks
Speaker 2: like he's in a dramatic one man play. He says
Speaker 2: he regrets hitting the women and that he lost his temper.
Speaker 3: All the women are no no hitting.
Speaker 2: I think just stip in I don't know why I
Speaker 2: wrote women, and it's like, okay, so then I guess
Speaker 2: you can leave like these people.
Speaker 3: This couple just thinks that they could just say facts
Speaker 3: have nothing to do with it and be able to leave.
Speaker 2: He says he takes full responsibility, and it's like, okay, great, Well,
Speaker 2: if you're taking full responsibility, then go to jail. The
Speaker 2: quickest episode ever, what do you think of responsibility and
Speaker 2: accountability is if it's not going to jail. So then
Speaker 2: a young severe woman with a cartoonish hair flip and
Speaker 2: a swoop bang is yelling about how you know my
Speaker 2: client is so banged up, and they're like, lady, he
Speaker 2: punched a lady cop in the face, so he's gonna
Speaker 2: get roughed up. Cabet's in the room and she's like,
Speaker 2: I don't know what happened, and Finn says he fell.
Speaker 2: The lawyer yells bull and she is no nonsense. She
Speaker 2: is on all cylinders. It's so wild, like every morning,
Speaker 2: I know that coffee on an empty stomach hurts me
Speaker 2: and every morningvertheless, she persisted, Yeah, she brings up his
Speaker 2: knuckles and the evidence of him punching Benson. So unless
Speaker 2: you want to add assault of a police officer on
Speaker 2: the charges, why don't you stop over, you know, trying
Speaker 2: to overplay this hand. He denies raping. He says, you
Speaker 2: know wrong, you got the wrong people. You got the
Speaker 2: wrong person. We say, well, we have a print, so stop.
Speaker 2: The lawyer goes, okay, Well one print isn't enough. And
Speaker 2: the one print is actually a couple blocks away from
Speaker 2: his home on a metal railing. Does not equal four rapes.
Speaker 2: And I hate to agree with you know, hair flip
Speaker 2: and savage, but I'm here. So she does have a point.
Speaker 2: He calls the detectives lazy, and Cabot says nope and
Speaker 2: throws some crime scene photos at him. And we connected
Speaker 2: it all because you have a signature. And if you
Speaker 2: leave a signature on all of these attacks, then one
Speaker 2: print does count to connect you to all of them,
Speaker 2: and the signature is a choking and then it's cutting
Speaker 2: off tits, which I don't like to read that out loud.
Speaker 3: Does he? I don't think he cuts them off.
Speaker 1: I think he just slashes them on their tip, slashes
Speaker 1: the tit. Yeah, I have had a tit removal episode
Speaker 1: and that's not this, No, we have that's Bengali and
Speaker 1: you can listen to that episode too.
Speaker 3: My god, we're so sick. We knew that immediately. So
Speaker 3: it's a it's a tit slash.
Speaker 2: And she says not enough evidence and not unique enough
Speaker 2: of a pattern, and they say, well, we have a
Speaker 2: victim who gave a description, so boom.
Speaker 3: He still denies it. The lawyer is still trying to
Speaker 3: shut it down.
Speaker 2: She says, listen, if they actually had a victim, you
Speaker 2: would be in a lineup, but you're not, so let's go,
Speaker 2: and Kabba goes, you're right, that's your next stop.
Speaker 3: So it's time for the lineup.
Speaker 2: And Carrie is the victim, played by the actress Mindy
Speaker 2: Christ And honestly, anyone would be proud to have an
Speaker 2: IMDb like hers, Like she's on every show ever. She's
Speaker 2: showing emotions, she's shaking, she's denying even actually seeing him.
Speaker 2: Uh oh, that's not good. And she but she's scared.
Speaker 2: She's like, if I don't pick the right person, that's
Speaker 2: going to be bad. And her advocate is there, and
Speaker 2: the advocate's really helping her and like, do your best,
Speaker 2: just say what is true.
Speaker 1: She's crying, like what if the wrong person? And then
Speaker 1: he gets away and she's just really having a hard time.
Speaker 1: She would have been fun to talk to, Mindy christ
Speaker 1: We could have talked to her. That would have been fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but what are we gonna do?
Speaker 2: It's a strike, Benson interjects, and she quizzes the victim
Speaker 2: on her memory to give her confidence. And she's clearly
Speaker 2: scared about this too, but Benson is gentle, sits her
Speaker 2: down and they start to talk. So she was choked
Speaker 2: from behind and then passed out, but she wakes up
Speaker 2: and so she remembers being on the ground on her back.
Speaker 2: He was on top of her, and he didn't say anything,
Speaker 2: and his hair was brown, wavy.
Speaker 3: He had dark eyes. She pushes, like what else, what
Speaker 3: else do you remember?
Speaker 2: What about the face and she says, dark eyebrows, clean shaven,
Speaker 2: he had a scar over his right eye and she
Speaker 2: thinks he saw the car and it was a white truck.
Speaker 2: Benson says, see you remember, and Benson allows Bethany, the
Speaker 2: rape crisis worker, to go with her. Bethany and Benson
Speaker 2: talk outside the room and leave Carrie crying alone, and
Speaker 2: she's like, this whole case relies on her, and Bethany's like, listen,
Speaker 2: I already know all the rules. I'm not gonna help her.
Speaker 2: I'm just here for emotional support, and she says I know,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, I just really want to get this guy.
Speaker 2: He clocks them and looks on them on his way
Speaker 2: to the lineup, and now it's time for action. His lawyer,
Speaker 2: Aaron is so over the top annoying, like this girl
Speaker 2: is married to a men's rights activist for sure. So
Speaker 2: she sees him, she clocks his ass, more tears well up.
Speaker 2: She says three, that's him. She swallows and says, that's
Speaker 2: the man that raped me. She looks down. Everyone scurries
Speaker 2: out except Cabot and aggressive hair Flip and she's like,
Speaker 2: I thought there were four victims, and Cabitt goes, we
Speaker 2: only need one, and the hair Flip girls like, no,
Speaker 2: not if it's wrong. They just live in the same neighborhood.
Speaker 2: She might have seen him just around the neighborhood. They
Speaker 2: fight back and forth and she's like, well, the three
Speaker 2: others can't id him, and everyone's gonna hear about it.
Speaker 2: And it's like, okay, yeah, he knocked the others out fully,
Speaker 2: so I can't imagine that, but like helping the case,
Speaker 2: but okay, sorry, they didn't get a glimpse they were
Speaker 2: knocked out.
Speaker 1: Also, like, the Upper West Side is not like Daniel
Speaker 1: Tiger's neighborhood. It's not like you know all your neighbors,
Speaker 1: like I've lived up there forever, and I would say,
Speaker 1: like I saw a few people I guess here and there,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't like you recognize all the people, Like
Speaker 1: you don't see people coming and going even the same
Speaker 1: four blocks. You're like, oh, there's mister Wilson leaving every
Speaker 1: day like he does. It's just like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't think I think I would know my rapist
Speaker 1: versus a guy I like saw it Duane read.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so Benson announces the news of this guy
Speaker 2: being booked right now.
Speaker 3: The women are really excited.
Speaker 2: All four victims are there and Benson explains the grand
Speaker 2: jury and the trial and everything with bail and just
Speaker 2: breaking down all the options that they have. It's a
Speaker 2: powerful group of women, and Benson's answering all of their
Speaker 2: questions and there are a bunch of annoying problems. So
Speaker 2: he knows where they live, so like they want his
Speaker 2: address so they know to how to avoid him, and
Speaker 2: they say they can't do that. But also if they
Speaker 2: do issue an order of protection for these women and
Speaker 2: he gets all their locations work Infoux information, because he
Speaker 2: needs all that info to be able to avoid those places.
Speaker 2: So it's like they can't do an order of protection
Speaker 2: or get help, they'll know where he is and they
Speaker 2: don't feel safe without one because he's going to be
Speaker 2: out on bail. And one of the women did want
Speaker 2: an order of protection, and so the other women do
Speaker 2: agree to it and he is free.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: Munches at the corkboard speaking to the team and the
Speaker 2: photos of the women with their identical markings, so now
Speaker 2: they want to figure out the connection between the women
Speaker 2: and gain more evidence on the white truck maybe what's
Speaker 2: going on. They're chatting with Benson, and then Benson gets
Speaker 2: a call from Carrie Gardner followed her into a coffee shop.
Speaker 2: So now we know Savage aka Wonderers is Gardner, so
Speaker 2: I think it's the first time I said his name.
Speaker 2: So they go to Nice Perks Coffee. He left, Carrie
Speaker 2: is sitting there. She is shaken up. She says he
Speaker 2: smiled and said hello, but she walked in and he
Speaker 2: was already there, and she's like, how did he know?
Speaker 2: That doesn't work, baby girl, Like if you walked into
Speaker 2: a coffee shop at he's not following you, even though
Speaker 2: the coincidence is for a rapist, Like, I don't believe it.
Speaker 2: So Cabot says this isn't gonna work, and Benson goes, no,
Speaker 2: I know, but this is a bad guy. I know
Speaker 2: this was in an accident. He stalks them, but now
Speaker 2: what he was in the coffee shop first. So we
Speaker 2: go to Huang and he agrees with Benson. This dude
Speaker 2: is meticulous and plans everything carefully. He's a power reassurance rapist.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: He has a perfect job and wife and looks good
Speaker 2: and he does all that to feel like a man
Speaker 2: because he wants to feel like a man. But inside
Speaker 2: he's an insecure baby and that's why he cuts their
Speaker 2: boobs because then they're scarred forever and they'll always think
Speaker 2: of him, and he's in control. He wants to instill
Speaker 2: fear in these victims because he gets off on it,
Speaker 2: and it's a way to take his control back because
Speaker 2: he doesn't think he's a real man. So what are
Speaker 2: we gonna do?
Speaker 4: Fuck?
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler run off and take charge. They go
Speaker 1: to talk to the women.
Speaker 2: One has a son, and Benson's like, just go stay
Speaker 2: with someone else, and she's like pull him out.
Speaker 3: Of school, like I gotta work with the fuck what
Speaker 3: do you want from me? And so she slams the
Speaker 3: door in the face and is really mad, and then
Speaker 3: we see what.
Speaker 1: What Well though, this woman, just FYI is the mom
Speaker 1: from Webb if you recognize her. She was just the
Speaker 1: mom of Teddy and Jake in Webb, which we just
Speaker 1: covered like a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 3: Wow yeah, wow wow.
Speaker 1: I was like, she's so familiar. Have I seen her
Speaker 1: in something? And then I looked her up. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: the mom from Webb.
Speaker 2: So once Benson turns around, she sees who else but
Speaker 2: Wonder years across the street and he's walking.
Speaker 1: A really cute puppy like a beanie bait, like a
Speaker 1: stuffed animal, gunned puppy, Like.
Speaker 3: It's so crazy, how cute the puppy is just the chunky,
Speaker 3: little golden I mean it.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, more puppy shots please, He's just perfect.
Speaker 2: And then Stabler picks up the puppy and it's just
Speaker 2: cute and sexy and amazing, and I can't, I can't.
Speaker 3: It's like my favorite scene.
Speaker 1: But it's like if it was like some snaggletooth like
Speaker 1: Mutt were they just gonna leave it there. But then
Speaker 1: Stabler's like, I can't leave this beautiful walk here as
Speaker 1: we pick him up.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the policy is when you arrest
Speaker 3: somebody that has a dog with them.
Speaker 1: I you know, you get around. Wait have you seen
Speaker 1: the video of Pinky? It's a viral video online.
Speaker 3: Who's Pinky?
Speaker 1: So it's like this cop is holding a cat named
Speaker 1: Pinky outside and he goes, hey, this is our cat
Speaker 1: of the week, Pinky, and he's up for adoption and
Speaker 1: he's a great gentle cat. The cat goes insane and
Speaker 1: it's like a minute and a half video of this
Speaker 1: cat trying to escape. They keep trying to put it
Speaker 1: in a box it won't and then we just hear
Speaker 1: then the cat grabs his leg.
Speaker 3: And you just hear the cop go, ah, you just
Speaker 3: have a bitch, And.
Speaker 1: It's like, Pinky is not a gentle and I don't
Speaker 1: think anyone adopted him. But it is a video that
Speaker 1: I cannot stop watching.
Speaker 2: It's old, it's old, but I just it was recently
Speaker 2: shown to me though, But so whatever, he's outside the house.
Speaker 3: So that's an you know, the broken order of protection.
Speaker 2: And so they're back in court for charges of menacing,
Speaker 2: stalking and intimidating. He also fired him lawyer and is
Speaker 2: representing himself, and the judge is like, oh great, more
Speaker 2: work for all of us, and then brings Cabot and
Speaker 2: him to the bench. Cabbot believes he's doing this to
Speaker 2: fuck with the victims some more and not in good faith.
Speaker 3: But he is right. He has the right to defend himself.
Speaker 2: The rape and these charges are different judges though, so
Speaker 2: even though this guy allows it doesn't mean that the
Speaker 2: judge in the next trial will stand for this. He
Speaker 2: claims it was a coincidence, and Cabot goes, no way,
Speaker 2: not twice in a day, like you're lying. The judge
Speaker 2: does dismiss it though, because there's not enough evidence. Gabble, gabble.
Speaker 2: The wife is in the stands and gives him a hug.
Speaker 2: Cabot is livid and is bitching to the squad, and
Speaker 2: Benson is so mad, like he didn't even attack the
Speaker 2: victim at her home and we just gave the address,
Speaker 2: and like, at fuck this, like we can't even keep
Speaker 2: these women safe and this is bullshit. Munch It also
Speaker 2: goes to talk to all the Wonder Years people, so
Speaker 2: coworker's friend's wife, everyone, and everyone just says he's a
Speaker 2: great guy, great guy, perfect guy. Benson goes to the
Speaker 2: phone and starts making calls to let the victims know
Speaker 2: that he's going to be defending himself in court, which
Speaker 2: makes it harder to testify and do all of that.
Speaker 2: So someone hands something to Cabot and she opens it
Speaker 2: and it's emotion to sever the charges, and so now
Speaker 2: we have to go to emotion hearing. He says there's
Speaker 2: no evidence in three of the four attacks. Cabot brings
Speaker 2: up loss stuffs to say how it's valid, and we
Speaker 2: have the judge Lewis Preston, that's not how what is
Speaker 2: it Louise Lois Lois Lois Preston, our redheaded princess of
Speaker 2: the court, and she's taking it all in and asks
Speaker 2: if there's an outside pattern of attacks and is there
Speaker 2: any more evidence? Cabot says, we don't need that the
Speaker 2: people versus West. When an mo is unique, then multiple
Speaker 2: crimes can be charged under one indictment. And then wonder
Speaker 2: Years is fumbling with his books, and the hair flip
Speaker 2: lawyer is still like sitting by side his side, helping him,
Speaker 2: and she's a bron Win type from the William Lewis episodes.
Speaker 2: If that rings a bell to you guys, And I mean,
Speaker 2: we always get these lawyers who's the other lawyer? They
Speaker 2: just like want to fuck these rapists and defend them.
Speaker 2: So and he's pretending to be like, oh golly, shock.
Speaker 2: So I don't I don't know how do I read?
Speaker 2: But it's all fucking an act. And he brings up
Speaker 2: people versus sable. When more proof on one crime has
Speaker 2: more evidence than the others, then the jury won't be
Speaker 2: able to consider the proof separate and it's an unfair connection.
Speaker 2: But him flipping through the book was an as and
Speaker 2: R noise for me, and I enjoyed every little flip page.
Speaker 2: The judge agrees with him, though, and calls it bootstrapping,
Speaker 2: and she's severing all counts. Cabot is mad and fuck
Speaker 2: now he wants to dismiss all the charges in full,
Speaker 2: and Cabot's like, okay, but we do have proof on one,
Speaker 2: and the judge goes yes for the fourth victim, there is,
Speaker 2: so for the others, we're going to close the indictments.
Speaker 2: On one through three they are dismissed and four is good.
Speaker 2: So this is going to be an uphill battle. Benson
Speaker 2: and Cabot are like, uh oh, unless this dude passed
Speaker 2: the bar overnight, this hairflip bitch is helping him. Cabot's
Speaker 2: still feeling confident that she's going to nail his ass
Speaker 2: with Carrie's testimony, and then Benson is like, well, only
Speaker 2: if she gives it. And Bethany says that Carrie cannot
Speaker 2: face her rapists again and does not want to do it.
Speaker 2: So now we're at Carrie's apartment and she's apologizing to
Speaker 2: Benson and Bethany and Benson just wants to know why
Speaker 2: she changed her mind. She's like, I don't want to
Speaker 2: talk to him. Or hear him, and I got to
Speaker 2: get on with my life. Benson says, I know, but
Speaker 2: he's free, Like, how are you going to get on
Speaker 2: with your life if he's free? She goes, that's not
Speaker 2: my problem and it's not my responsibility.
Speaker 1: He also lives in your neighborhood, and is that the
Speaker 1: coffee shops you go to, just having like a nightmare,
Speaker 1: possibly lurking around every corner.
Speaker 3: It doesn't seem like a good option either.
Speaker 2: Bethany is supporting Carrie's choice and Benson is convincing her
Speaker 2: to testify, and she says she knows nobody that has
Speaker 2: regretted testifying. Only women regret not doing it. So we
Speaker 2: got her on the stand. She's doing it. She still
Speaker 2: has a mark around her neck from the choking. She's
Speaker 2: speaking clearly effectively points him out. It's Michael Gardner, but
Speaker 2: we know he's going to pull some tricks, so he
Speaker 2: gets up. It's really creepy. She talks to him like
Speaker 2: you put a cord around my neck, and he's trying
Speaker 2: to push it, like, well, if I was behind you,
Speaker 2: how do you know it was me? And she says,
Speaker 2: I saw you later when I woke up, and he
Speaker 2: walks closer to her and says, well, you claim sexual assault.
Speaker 2: She says, you forced your penis into my vagina and
Speaker 2: he's like, did your attacker notice your eyes were open?
Speaker 2: And she goes, no, you weren't even paying attention. He goes,
Speaker 2: so you were six inches from my face, and you
Speaker 2: know I wouldn't notice you're you're awake.
Speaker 3: That's kind of strange.
Speaker 2: Cabot objects and is like, fuck, how many more ways
Speaker 2: can she answer the same question, like she was awake,
Speaker 2: you didn't notice. Move it the fuck along, and the
Speaker 2: judge agrees. He then pivots, someone was with you when
Speaker 2: you went to the cops. Yeah, she goes, yes, Bethany,
Speaker 2: and Bethany talked to her that night, and he wants.
Speaker 3: To know what they talked about.
Speaker 2: But that's shut that shut down because you know, both
Speaker 2: Cabot and the judge know that that's privileged information.
Speaker 3: He sits down with no other questions.
Speaker 2: And I'm a little taken aback that that was chill,
Speaker 2: you know, like I just thought he was gonna play
Speaker 2: some shenanigans on her. Benson is now on the stand
Speaker 2: giving all the info about the arrest, the prince, the lineup,
Speaker 2: and the bing bang bong vibes. Sorry to quote Stucky,
Speaker 2: but it was appropriate in this moment. He asks why
Speaker 2: he wasn't questioned, and she says that she was preparing
Speaker 2: the victim for the lineup, and he brings the punch
Speaker 2: that I was expecting earlier, but cab It objects and
Speaker 2: he's like, well, maybe Benson hates me because I punched
Speaker 2: her and she's extremad at me. And the judge is
Speaker 2: now a judas and allows this questioning and she and
Speaker 2: so Benson goes, I have no personal stake in you,
Speaker 2: and this is peak Benson.
Speaker 3: I'm obsessed with this.
Speaker 2: So he says, well, I embarrassed you in front of colleagues,
Speaker 2: and she explains it's not uncommon for a purp to
Speaker 2: lose control and I certainly have been hit much harder.
Speaker 1: Ah get her, Jade get her, and he you know,
Speaker 1: he smiles and I think you know that that got him.
Speaker 1: And he continues trying to trap her in something.
Speaker 2: So he says that he saw her with Bethany at
Speaker 2: the precinct and he wants to know what they were
Speaker 2: talking about. And again we already covered privilege, but hairpipe,
Speaker 2: hair pipe, hairflip pipes, in, so she says that, like, no,
Speaker 2: that privilege is only with a victim, not with you know,
Speaker 2: loose detectives. And so what were they talking about? And
Speaker 2: she's like, I was advising miss Taylor not to interfere
Speaker 2: so everything would be fair. And he's like, but you
Speaker 2: were looking at me and Bethany did too, and Benson
Speaker 2: is like, you can ask her if she looked at you, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't fucking know. And after they were done talking,
Speaker 2: she went to the interview room with Carrie, and Benson
Speaker 2: realizes what he's up to. He frames it that Bethany
Speaker 2: talked to Benson, saw him in handcuffs, and then talked
Speaker 2: to the victim alone, and that's how that she was picked.
Speaker 2: And Benson is so mad and she's yelling at Cabot
Speaker 2: and Cabot is yelling back at her, and Benson assures
Speaker 2: that the lineup wasn't tainted, but they're screwed. Bethany walks
Speaker 2: in and uh oh, she just got subpoena to testify
Speaker 2: on Michael Gardner's behalf. Benson scoffs, we are in judges quarters,
Speaker 2: we have Gardner versus Cabot.
Speaker 3: What will happen?
Speaker 2: So the word fishing ex addition is used. He feels
Speaker 2: like things are unfair. So the judge decides that she
Speaker 2: will question Bethany in chambers and she'll figure out what
Speaker 2: the jury will hear or not hear. And Benson and
Speaker 2: Cabbitt are waiting outside the judge's doors and outwalks Bethany
Speaker 2: and they ask how it went, and she goes, I
Speaker 2: said nothing, and they're confused, and the judge walks out
Speaker 2: and goes Benson arrests her for contempt and Benson doesn't
Speaker 2: want to, but the judge is like, Okay, I can
Speaker 2: get someone else to do it, So fucking arrest her.
Speaker 2: I'm going to get someone else. So Benson walks her
Speaker 2: out into custody and it's a subpoena, so you have
Speaker 2: to talk.
Speaker 3: She will not. She is in a cell. Cabot walks
Speaker 3: in too, like to you know, talk to her and
Speaker 3: talk her out of it. She will not end up stories.
Speaker 3: She is not talking.
Speaker 2: So Benson is like, Bethany, you know, did Carrie tell you, like,
Speaker 2: did you tell her what you look like or anything?
Speaker 2: And you know Bethany didn't do that. She's a professional.
Speaker 2: So Benson's trying to, you know, push her and be like, so,
Speaker 2: why does it matter. You'll just tell the judge what
Speaker 2: you guys talked about. She'll find it immaterial to the
Speaker 2: trial and no one else has to hear about it.
Speaker 2: But Bethany doesn't like that and the precedent that it
Speaker 2: will and then victims in the future will never trust
Speaker 2: her again, and everything's going to be on court TV
Speaker 2: and nobody will trust us and nobody will report their crimes.
Speaker 2: Cabot asks her the plan to spend the rest of
Speaker 2: her life in jail, and she says she brought her
Speaker 2: toothbrush and is ready to serve the time if it
Speaker 2: needs to happen. Kabot's like, well, the trial's going to
Speaker 2: be thrown out, and Benson says what if the victim
Speaker 2: waives the privilege? And Bethany doesn't like putting that much
Speaker 2: on Carrie. Benson yells, well, what else do you want
Speaker 2: me to do? And Bethany says, I don't fucking know,
Speaker 2: but you know this is just too damaging. She does
Speaker 2: not want this to happen, and she goes, you're supposed
Speaker 2: to help the victims, do your job, so she sits down.
Speaker 3: Benson's at the end of her rope.
Speaker 2: So she goes talk to talk to Carrie and tries
Speaker 2: to convince her to waive her right to privacy so
Speaker 2: Bethany can testify to the convo. Benson notices, though, that
Speaker 2: Carrie is no longer wearing her engagement ring, and she
Speaker 2: said that was her decision. She didn't want Aaron to
Speaker 2: have to wait around for her to get back to normal.
Speaker 2: She couldn't have sex without crying. Loves him, but she'll
Speaker 2: never be normal again. And Benson goes, this is not
Speaker 2: the right time to make these types of decisions, and
Speaker 2: she's like, well, what is the right time. You're all
Speaker 2: sitting around waiting for me to shake this off and
Speaker 2: get back to normal, And she chuckles softly, and the
Speaker 2: close captioning wrote the chuckles, and so she exhales and
Speaker 2: tears start.
Speaker 3: You have no idea.
Speaker 2: I can't sleep for more than twenty minutes a night.
Speaker 2: I hate to be alone, but god, I hate to
Speaker 2: be around people more. And I'm so afraid to go
Speaker 2: outside or go to a crowded place because I might
Speaker 2: see him. And all I can think to myself is
Speaker 2: that it would be so much better if he just
Speaker 2: killed me. That's what I talked to Bethany about because
Speaker 2: she said I could say anything to her and no
Speaker 2: one would ever know. Benson says, nothing I do will
Speaker 2: ever change what happened to you. But I can only
Speaker 2: try to make sure this doesn't happen again to anybody else,
Speaker 2: and everything I've done has failed. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: pretend this is a good or fair thing. But she
Speaker 2: has to ask for her help because she this is
Speaker 2: the last chance. So Bethany is pacing in her cell.
Speaker 2: Carrie visits her says I hate seeing you in here,
Speaker 2: and Bethany assures her it was her decision and not
Speaker 2: Carrie's problem. Carrie proudly states that she waved her rights,
Speaker 2: and she says I wish you didn't do that, though,
Speaker 2: And Carrie's like, it is my choice, but Bethany says
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. I still won't say anything. Carrie says,
Speaker 2: I'm taking back my control. I don't want him getting
Speaker 2: away with it, and I can't like this is only
Speaker 2: going to get worse, So tell the judge everything and
Speaker 2: let's lock his ass up. Lois says, yep, not relevant
Speaker 2: at all, bozo, So he looks worried it didn't work
Speaker 2: at all. And your due process is fine. He of Jackson.
Speaker 2: Lois goes, yeah, you can't do that. He yells that's
Speaker 2: not fair, and she's like, well that's my ruling, so
Speaker 2: shut up. Benson and Cabin are walking down the stairs
Speaker 2: trying to guess what else he's gonna pull in there.
Speaker 2: Bethany runs down the court steps and you can tell
Speaker 2: she is super mad. And she now has another subpoena
Speaker 2: of someone who raped like another client of hers, and
Speaker 2: he wants her records disclosed, and she feels like Benson
Speaker 2: will be the perfect person to bully her into giving
Speaker 2: up her rights. Betson explains, like, I did what I
Speaker 2: had to do just stop him from raping other women,
Speaker 2: and she says, well, six of my clients just stopped counseling.
Speaker 2: They don't trust me anymore, but you got your wins,
Speaker 2: so who cares if it's at everyone else's expense? And
Speaker 2: Benson is really sad and she's waiting for Stabler to
Speaker 2: come home, like waiting on the soup. And she pulls
Speaker 2: up and she's like, where is everyone? And Kathy took
Speaker 2: the kids to see La Boem, Like what aren't those
Speaker 2: twins like seven? Like they're going to see Lobom the opera.
Speaker 3: And he goes pass and it's like, you can't just
Speaker 3: go to the theater with your family for a day.
Speaker 2: She's like, wow, you're night off with the kids and
Speaker 2: you go store shopping cool and he says, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: a grocery store with strippers. And he basically goes, live,
Speaker 2: you gotta let it go, and he you know, you
Speaker 2: put a rapist on trial, you know, And she says
Speaker 2: I made it worse. He says, you know that's not true.
Speaker 2: But she's making it about her. How she to she
Speaker 2: doesn't think the cost was worth it. He looks deep
Speaker 2: at her and says, you always identified with the victims
Speaker 2: and it's one of the things that makes you a
Speaker 2: great cop. But that's what makes this job torture. Sometimes
Speaker 2: you can never go back and change things that have happened.
Speaker 2: You can't a real philosopher. Yeah, he's like explaining time
Speaker 2: to us. So she's having a really hard night, full
Speaker 2: existential crisis. Maybe there isn't a point to all of this,
Speaker 2: maybe the cost is too high, and he goes, well,
Speaker 2: nobody's making you do this, Olivia. You can walk away,
Speaker 2: and she goes, no, I can't so we're back at trial.
Speaker 2: We're back at trial and he's not in court and
Speaker 2: it's been an hour and Cabo it's like whatever, we
Speaker 2: could do the trial without him, it doesn't matter. And
Speaker 2: hair Flip is fighting for her man, claiming she doesn't
Speaker 2: know where he is, and Benson and Stable are run
Speaker 2: into the court or maybe like a walk with a.
Speaker 1: Brisk up beat vibe, you know, not a full jog.
Speaker 1: They run back out and are going to try to
Speaker 1: find him.
Speaker 2: All alerts are on, all hands on deck and a
Speaker 2: busy scurrying energy in the squad room. Many targets out there.
Speaker 2: We need warnings out to everyone that could be his enemy.
Speaker 2: And Craigan tells him that he has had a heart
Speaker 2: on for you. Benson Wow NBC. So she says, I
Speaker 2: hope he tries something, and Stabler hangs up the phone.
Speaker 2: He already did another attack. They go to the alley
Speaker 2: and there's a crime scene there. The victim is dead,
Speaker 2: so he cut up her face to nobody to id him. Now,
Speaker 2: the victim is now in the morgue and Melinda's breaking
Speaker 2: it down for the detectives. Her name is Evelyn Sharp
Speaker 2: from Staten Island. Strangulation is here, latex gloves, bruises on knuckles,
Speaker 2: no evidence on body left behind, but there's a part
Speaker 2: of skin cut off where he bit her. So but like,
Speaker 2: so he's getting better at this, but he didn't cut
Speaker 2: the skin deep of enough, and there's still an impression
Speaker 2: of his teeth in.
Speaker 3: The muscle, which got he bitter so hard.
Speaker 1: This is so fucked up, and Melinda matched it to
Speaker 1: his dental record, so now there's no question we got
Speaker 1: the son of a bitch. So now Benson and Stabler
Speaker 1: are hounding hair Flip and they're like, it's a super
Speaker 1: windy day.
Speaker 3: Everyone's hair is flying.
Speaker 2: Benson is in her Bieber era short you know, short
Speaker 2: but long hair, and they're pleading like it's no longer
Speaker 2: a case of mistaken identity.
Speaker 3: We got him.
Speaker 1: Aaron guilty of rape and murder. She says, if I
Speaker 1: knew where he was, i'd tell you.
Speaker 3: I just don't know.
Speaker 2: So we're all back in the office and Munch goes, well,
Speaker 2: he has no family and he you know, we talked
Speaker 2: to the business partner's staff, nobody has heard from him.
Speaker 2: The wife is devastated, so they dump his phone to
Speaker 2: see who he like, calls all the time, Benson runs
Speaker 2: in with a file.
Speaker 3: All the money is his wife's, but he.
Speaker 2: Does have access to it, and recent activity shows five
Speaker 2: grand he took out yesterday morning in the Bronx. So
Speaker 2: then they heads to the Bronx to go to the
Speaker 2: cash and check place and the guy behind the bulletproof
Speaker 2: glass called him.
Speaker 3: Richie Rich, and the camera of course is rolling.
Speaker 2: There's money, there's bulletproof glass, there's a camera, and there's
Speaker 2: proof on the camera that he was there. And in
Speaker 2: the same frame we have the white truck in the background.
Speaker 2: So you know, Carrie mentioned a white car, but they
Speaker 2: couldn't find one registered to him or his wife. Who
Speaker 2: is driving that white car and it's a ninety nine
Speaker 2: Lexus r X three hundred, And they play the video
Speaker 2: longer and Joel Delafuente is blowing it up and getting
Speaker 2: so freaking close. Oh my god, he's kissing this person
Speaker 2: that is not his wife. There's a girlfriend in the mix.
Speaker 2: So Craigan is now like, okay, we got to get
Speaker 2: to the bottom of it. Let's like look through the
Speaker 2: phone records. So the issue those Stabler is like he's
Speaker 2: too smart to be pulling dumb mistakes like calling his
Speaker 2: girlfriend on his regular phone, and the majority of his
Speaker 2: calls went to his lawyer this month. And then Stabler
Speaker 2: those screnches his face and goes and last month, and
Speaker 2: then Benson grabs more papers and it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: he has been communicating with Hairflip for four months and
Speaker 2: why would he need a criminal defense attorney before he
Speaker 2: was even arrested. They look her up and they're having
Speaker 2: an affair. Benson's like, oh my god, and guess with
Speaker 2: the DMV record show. She has a white Lexus done done.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, exactly what I think of when I
Speaker 1: think of a white truck, a white Lexus, a SUV.
Speaker 1: Stabler says, the white I mean, it was just her
Speaker 1: memory after an Oh I'm not. I'm not, but I like,
Speaker 1: I wonder if they were like what the cops were
Speaker 1: looking for. Sailor sees the white Lexus trunk open. Not
Speaker 1: a great sign.
Speaker 3: They run in.
Speaker 2: They go into the Aaron's apartment, knock knocked, so we
Speaker 2: hear a voice go doors open and it's her and
Speaker 2: they walk in, guns up and they ask where he is,
Speaker 2: and she says he's here. She's uh, puts her hands
Speaker 2: up and they're covered in blood. They ask her if
Speaker 2: she's hurt. She says no, So she found the murder
Speaker 2: weapon in the car. He denied it even after she
Speaker 2: found everything. Benson says, if he attacks you, there's nothing
Speaker 2: you could have done, and she says, that's right, justifiable homicide.
Speaker 2: And so then Sam, you know, wonder your savage is
Speaker 2: just bleeding out on the ground. And Carrie and Beth
Speaker 2: and he go down to the morgue. They want to
Speaker 2: see his body, so she wants to know it's over,
Speaker 2: and Benson pulled some strings to get them in to
Speaker 2: see the body.
Speaker 3: She's a real one. She pulls back the curtain. He's dead.
Speaker 2: Carrie stares at him, then walks away. Benson covers his
Speaker 2: blue body back up. It's the end of the episode.
Speaker 2: Dick wolf Baby.
Speaker 1: I don't really I like wish she had just like
Speaker 1: made him, like she gets to kill him and now
Speaker 1: he's dead, like he doesn't get to like he doesn't
Speaker 1: really face the consequences for being a fucking serial rapist.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't like that she vigilanted in
Speaker 3: that situation.
Speaker 1: I disagree they're all happier that he's dead, you know, probably, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he can't make print calls or letters or not, you know,
Speaker 1: like he is dead dead dead dead yeah, yeah, true true.
Speaker 1: Oh and Lisa, thank you so much for that beautiful recap.
Speaker 1: Before we get into our true crime segment, I would
Speaker 1: just like to remind everybody gently in the middle of
Speaker 1: the podcast that we are on tour in October. We're
Speaker 1: going to be in Buffalo, New Haven, Burlington, Vermont, Cleveland, Ohio, Boston, Ontario, Detroit, Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1: Please come see us. Some of these are cities we've
Speaker 1: never been to. You guys have asked us to come.
Speaker 1: If we don't sell the tickets, maybe we can't come back.
Speaker 3: So we are. We're getting low on tickets in Burlington,
Speaker 3: see us. Vermont, we love you so much. We need
Speaker 3: you to buy those tickets. For Boston and everywhere else,
Speaker 3: just come see us.
Speaker 1: And also, Lisa will be at the Bellhouse in New
Speaker 1: York City on ten eleven, October eleventh, in between a
Speaker 1: couple of those dates, and I'll be doing a quick
Speaker 1: little opening set, so get tickets for that as well,
Speaker 1: because those are going fast. Okay, well, listen to these
Speaker 1: message from our sponsors, and then we've got some real
Speaker 1: true crime to talk about.
Speaker 3: And we're back.
Speaker 1: So this episode is based off of the case of
Speaker 1: the bike path rapist, who was a guy who would
Speaker 1: choke victims until they passed out and sexually assault them
Speaker 1: and then he eventually ended up murdering a few of
Speaker 1: his victims. Like he was at first just known as
Speaker 1: a serial rapist and then I don't know if he
Speaker 1: progressed to murder. It sounds like some of the murders
Speaker 1: were results of victims fighting back, but we'll get into it.
Speaker 1: What is wild is that this episode aired in two
Speaker 1: thousand and three and the crime had not yet been solved,
Speaker 1: but it has since been solved.
Speaker 3: Wow. So yeah, So here's what happened.
Speaker 1: This kind of came to prominence more in late September
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety a woman named Linda Yellam had just
Speaker 1: begun her sophomore year at the University of Buffalo. She
Speaker 1: went out for a run on a bike path that
Speaker 1: goes through the campus into the town of Amherst, New York,
Speaker 1: and it was like a regular route for her. She
Speaker 1: was training for the New York City Marathon that was
Speaker 1: coming up in like just over a month, and it
Speaker 1: was twelve fifteen in the afternoon. She had promised her
Speaker 1: sister that she would never run at night because just
Speaker 1: the year before was the infamous Central Park jogger case,
Speaker 1: and you know, everybody was, I feel like, very on
Speaker 1: edge about jogging, especially at night at that in the
Speaker 1: aftermath of that horrific crime. So she had planned to
Speaker 1: run fifteen miles and then meet her friends to watch
Speaker 1: the movie Beaches Hello, one of my all time favorites
Speaker 1: that I made watch. So when no one had heard
Speaker 1: from Linda by nine thirty pm, her roommates called campus
Speaker 1: police to report her missing. Police and student search groups
Speaker 1: led by Linda's boyfriend, went out looking for her on
Speaker 1: the bike path. But then in the morning they really
Speaker 1: got down to business and like campus and local police
Speaker 1: were like using dogs and a helicopter. And the cops
Speaker 1: were struck by a sense of familiarity in this case
Speaker 1: because four months earlier, a thirty two year old woman
Speaker 1: had been found moaning and hanging on to life fifty
Speaker 1: feet from the bike path, having been beaten and sexually assaulted.
Speaker 1: She was unconscious for over six hours. They didn't know
Speaker 1: she would ever regain consciousness. She finally did told the
Speaker 1: police that she couldn't remember anything except for suddenly having
Speaker 1: a rope around her neck and she never saw her attacker.
Speaker 3: And this.
Speaker 1: As this is a verb and a noun, but it's
Speaker 1: called a garote and it's a rope or a wire
Speaker 1: or anything that's used to like strangle someone. And so
Speaker 1: I think garrot. When you garrot someone, it's actually pronounce garat.
Speaker 1: I think because I listened to a little Google thing
Speaker 1: that's like garat and tells you how to say it.
Speaker 1: But the rope left this woman unconscious and made deep
Speaker 1: impressions in her neck. And so then the story goes
Speaker 1: even further back to August of eighty nine, when a
Speaker 1: fourteen year old girl from Amherst, on her way to
Speaker 1: cheerleading practice at Sweet Home High School, was dragged off
Speaker 1: the same bike path and raped. Three months earlier than that,
Speaker 1: a fifteen year old high school student was attacked with
Speaker 1: a similar mo in Buffalo, and then in eighty eight,
Speaker 1: a sixteen year old high school student was also raped
Speaker 1: in that same area of Buffalo, And the first two
Speaker 1: victims go all the way back to eighty six, when
Speaker 1: a forty four year old jogger in Buffalo and a
Speaker 1: seventeen year old high school student in Hamburg were attacked
Speaker 1: only weeks apart, so in total that six victims over
Speaker 1: four years before Linda goes missing in nineteen ninety. So
Speaker 1: when they're looking for Linda, they're hoping to find her
Speaker 1: alive because to their knowledge, this purp has not killed before,
Speaker 1: so they're hoping she's somewhere where she can't call for help.
Speaker 3: But she's so alive.
Speaker 1: Sadly, on the day after she disappeared, her body is
Speaker 1: found and she's wearing a Nike T shirt with the
Speaker 1: wront words run like Hell on it, which is so horrible,
Speaker 1: and she has duct tape covering her nose and mouth,
Speaker 1: and it really looked like she fought back hard. Police
Speaker 1: knew when they saw the double ligature marks on her
Speaker 1: neck that this was the same guy, and that forensics
Speaker 1: from several of the previous scenes confirmed that this was
Speaker 1: the work of the bike path rapist. Police worked diligently
Speaker 1: to find this guy. They did steakouts on the bike path,
Speaker 1: they investigated hundreds and hundreds of tips, but nothing came
Speaker 1: of it. The case went unsolved for over a decade.
Speaker 1: But here's what they did know. Killer had typo blood
Speaker 1: in every case beside Linda. He attacked between seven thirty
Speaker 1: am and nine thirty am, and always between meg and October,
Speaker 1: like this man did not like to kill in the
Speaker 1: cold months. Victims were seemingly picked at random, but the
Speaker 1: locations were pre because during some of his attacks, he
Speaker 1: would force the victims to a different location on the
Speaker 1: bike path where he had like pre cut strips of
Speaker 1: duct tape and medical tape and stuff waiting for him.
Speaker 1: So he had like areas set up for his crime.
Speaker 1: But I think he picked the victim based on opportunity.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of times we hear about
Speaker 1: rapists and killers like stalking victims getting to know their patterns,
Speaker 1: but I think this guy knows, Oh, it's a bike path,
Speaker 1: like people are running on it all the time. I'll
Speaker 1: just get someone when the time strikes me. Apparently, one
Speaker 1: time this guy identified himself as Dave and said he'd
Speaker 1: been in prison for rape or murder. I don't really
Speaker 1: know where that came from, because I haven't read specifically
Speaker 1: any of the victims saying they conversed with this man.
Speaker 1: But most of the time they were all just like
Speaker 1: attacked from behind, unconscious and then left. The garaat he
Speaker 1: used was a wire or a cord that did not
Speaker 1: leave fibers, and it was originally used to keep victims quiet,
Speaker 1: but later they said he would use it to purposely,
Speaker 1: purposefully bring them in and out of consciousness, like during
Speaker 1: the races. We've seen that before. I feel like where
Speaker 1: they think that's it's like a torture. That's kind of
Speaker 1: fun for these rapists to like have you come back
Speaker 1: awake and then go back out when he chokes you again.
Speaker 1: So he would usually sneak up behind them, double wrap
Speaker 1: the chord hence the double ligature marks on the victims
Speaker 1: before pulling them back, and he always took the chord
Speaker 1: with him. But he did leave DNA and other evidence
Speaker 1: at several of the crime scenes, not all of them,
Speaker 1: but several of them that could tie them together, whereas
Speaker 1: in this episode he only had left evidence at one case,
Speaker 1: so they were allowed to sever them. This was like
Speaker 1: a clear pattern and he'd left DNA that tied them all.
Speaker 1: The bike Path rapist case was also on Unsolved Mysteries
Speaker 1: and they would get new tips every time the episode aired,
Speaker 1: and the Emmers Police did like arrest a couple of people,
Speaker 1: like one guy that was loitering on the bike path.
Speaker 3: Was kind of creepy, and his name was Dave.
Speaker 1: They got him, but everybody got exonerated by DNA because
Speaker 1: it didn't match. So by two thousand and two, the
Speaker 1: statute limitations is up on all these rapes, but not
Speaker 1: the murder, which obviously could still be proxiicant did so
Speaker 1: after nine After nineteen ninety, which is when Linda was killed.
Speaker 1: In ninety two, they found the body of Majean Mazur,
Speaker 1: who was a sex worker who was sexually assaulted and
Speaker 1: murdered by strangulation the same way as Linda was. She
Speaker 1: was found in a field in Buffalo, over three weeks
Speaker 1: after she disappeared. She was a heroin addict and she
Speaker 1: was allegedly they knew each other, her in the attacker,
Speaker 1: and so he killed her because she could id him
Speaker 1: and like he had solicited her before, they think, and
Speaker 1: probably because she was a sex worker.
Speaker 3: There's actually not very much information about her murder.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like, I know she had a daughter
Speaker 1: who was five at the time of her murder, but
Speaker 1: that's kind of all I could find out about her.
Speaker 1: And then then what's creepy is On September twenty ninth,
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, which is six years sixteen years
Speaker 1: to the.
Speaker 3: Day that Linda Yellam was killed.
Speaker 1: Joan Diver, a nurse from Clarence, New York, disappeared after
Speaker 1: going on a run on a rural bike path. Her
Speaker 1: body was found two days later, also strangled, and interestingly,
Speaker 1: she was the only victim who was not sexually assaulted.
Speaker 1: It's thought that she may have died from strangulation before
Speaker 1: the attacker could get to the sexual assault. So a
Speaker 1: few months later, investigators linked the DNA to all three
Speaker 1: murders and to five of the rapes, and the DNA
Speaker 1: also show that the attacker would be of Hispanic origin,
Speaker 1: so a task force was formed that included New York
Speaker 1: State Police, Erie County Sheriff's Department, Buffalo, and Amer's police departments.
Speaker 1: They cross referenced all these lists of suspects they'd have
Speaker 1: over the years, and they landed on a man named
Speaker 1: Altemio Sanchez, who had been a suspect in a nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty one rape and was the only Hispanic man to
Speaker 1: show up on multiple lists when they cross reference, and
Speaker 1: this man, al Tamio Sanchez, was from Puerto Rico, so
Speaker 1: they started surveilling him, like they were following him around
Speaker 1: town to and from his factory job. And then they
Speaker 1: are literally undercover in a restaurant one night while he
Speaker 1: is at dinner with his wife, and they had instructed
Speaker 1: the people at the restaurant do not any of his
Speaker 1: stuff when he's done, and they did this shit that
Speaker 1: they do on SVU all the time that I always
Speaker 1: think is like sort of for TV. But they get
Speaker 1: his plate, his glass, and utensils after his meal, they
Speaker 1: test it for DNA and it matches the DNA from
Speaker 1: three murders. So Altimio Sanchez is the guy, and profilers
Speaker 1: had thought he was single and a loner. And you know, interestingly,
Speaker 1: I was on Twitter, the app formerly known as Twitter.
Speaker 1: I was on X the other day and I saw
Speaker 1: a friend of mine tweet in another conversation this Vox
Speaker 1: article about profiling that it talks about how profiling like
Speaker 1: doesn't work, like it's not real and maybe we should
Speaker 1: like have TV shows stop celebrating it. I will link
Speaker 1: to it in the show notes. But it's interesting about
Speaker 1: criminal profiling. When they do studies, most profiling doesn't really
Speaker 1: come up with more information than what like non trained
Speaker 1: profilers could come up with and in this case, they
Speaker 1: assumed this guy was single, a loner, hates women, I
Speaker 1: mean probably does hate women. But it turned out a
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff they thought about this guy was incorrect.
Speaker 1: Sanchez was a short, stocky, bald man with a mustache.
Speaker 1: He did not fit the profile of a quote unquote
Speaker 1: maladjusted loaner. He was employed, he was married, and he
Speaker 1: had two sons, which we've seen BTK, the Green River
Speaker 1: killer was married. You know a lot of people I
Speaker 1: can't appear well adjusted and look quote unquote like the
Speaker 1: guy next door, quote husband, father, solid work record, little
Speaker 1: league baseball coach, church goer. He just didn't fit anybody's profile,
Speaker 1: said Frank Clark, the county district attorney. And Sanchez's neighbors
Speaker 1: in suburban chic Towaga, where he lived, were stunned. Like
Speaker 1: The New York Times wrote, he just blended in. All
Speaker 1: his neighbors thought he was thoughtful, helpful. He would have
Speaker 1: like garden parties in the summer, like pot lucks, people
Speaker 1: would bring food to And this is so fucking creepy.
Speaker 3: Get this, This motherfucker actually registered.
Speaker 1: And ran in Linda Yellham Memorial run in nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 1: which is a run that her family set up to
Speaker 1: like to honor her memory, and he murdered her and
Speaker 1: then for six years later ran in her memorial race
Speaker 1: that fifteen hundred plus people ran and it was like
Speaker 1: a three point one mile race, and come sick, come
Speaker 1: so sick. But also this is that's such an sbu plotline.
Speaker 1: I know, like to go to the memorial race.
Speaker 2: Usually they just go to the press or the memorial
Speaker 2: or the cemetery, but to fucking race, that is.
Speaker 3: To run in the race.
Speaker 1: I mean, who would think, No one would think that
Speaker 1: you would be like that the killer would be on
Speaker 1: that list of fifteen hundred people.
Speaker 3: Oh god, I wonder, Oh my god. Sick. And he
Speaker 3: actually had like pretty much no record.
Speaker 1: He had two arrests for soliciting prostitution in ninety one
Speaker 1: and ninety nine, but they didn't go anywhere. In nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety the police questioned mister Sanchez and took his fingerprints
Speaker 1: after a coworker reported him lurking on a bike on
Speaker 1: the bike path. So but I guess fingerprints weren't part
Speaker 1: of the evidence they had gathered. In nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 1: five years before the first rape of his that we
Speaker 1: have connected. Officers interviewed this Sanchez's uncle after a rape
Speaker 1: victim thought she spotted her attacker in the uncle's car
Speaker 1: at a shopping mall. But at twenty years later, twenty
Speaker 1: five years later, the uncle is like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 1: forgot to tell the cops that my nephew had borrowed
Speaker 1: the car that when that woman made that report. So
Speaker 1: when the cops came to him and said, this woman
Speaker 1: says her rapist was in your car, the guy had
Speaker 1: an airtight alibi because it wasn't him, it was his
Speaker 1: nephew he'd lent the car to.
Speaker 3: And this guy just never told the cops.
Speaker 1: And then twenty five years later, you've been basically harboring
Speaker 1: a serial rapist and murderer as your nephew. Worse still,
Speaker 1: is that a man named Anthony Capozzi, who was, you know,
Speaker 1: suffering from schizophrenia, served twenty two years for two rapes
Speaker 1: that are now through DNA tied to Sanchez, and his
Speaker 1: convictions have since been erased. But it was crazy because
Speaker 1: this guy was, like everybody said, he was severely debilitated.
Speaker 1: He was on medication that made him slow and lethargic.
Speaker 1: He was much heavier than what women reported. There's no
Speaker 1: way he would have been able to like physically detain
Speaker 1: these women because he was so sluggish from his medication.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's the eighties, so let's just like
Speaker 1: get this guy with a mental health issue and lock
Speaker 1: him up for these rapes.
Speaker 3: But it wasn't him.
Speaker 1: Just essentially how making a murderer starts, but then we
Speaker 1: know how it ends anyway, May two thousand, I think
Speaker 1: I said this, but just to be clear, he is
Speaker 1: arrested in January of two thousand and seven, and then
Speaker 1: in May two thousand and seven, he pleads guilty to
Speaker 1: the murders of Lynda Ellam, Majen Mazour, and Joan Diver.
Speaker 1: In August of that same year, he sentenced to seventy
Speaker 1: five years to life. He was imprisoned at the Clinton
Speaker 1: Correctional Facility in the Adirondacks, but I looked him up
Speaker 1: in like the inmate system for New York, and he's
Speaker 1: since been moved to the Wendy Correctional Facility, which we
Speaker 1: just talked about on another episode. And I think from
Speaker 1: what I gathered, it's possible that him pleading guilty got
Speaker 1: him moved to a facility closer to his family, so
Speaker 1: because the Wendy facility is like just east of Buffalo,
Speaker 1: so he's closer to home and closer to where he
Speaker 1: committed his crimes. But yeah, this is like another case
Speaker 1: of just like a guy who totally blended in no
Speaker 1: one thought it could have been him, and he was
Speaker 1: just doing these horrific crimes and probably was also a
Speaker 1: power reassurance rapist, like made him feel like a man.
Speaker 1: I don't know, wow, but it seemed also like the
Speaker 1: people that he killed he killed to either cover up
Speaker 1: form id or because they fought back, or he Like
Speaker 1: with the third victim, I think he was just trying
Speaker 1: to strangle her and he killed her by accident. But
Speaker 1: it's yeah, horrible. Well he'll be in he'll rot in
Speaker 1: jail forever. So that's that story, and you know he'll
Speaker 1: be in jail forever. And Fred Savage's character is dead
Speaker 1: on the floor of his hair flip lawyer girlfriend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the profiling. It's like clearly a criminal their
Speaker 2: anti criminal minds.
Speaker 1: Yes, specifically this specifically this says it basically talks about
Speaker 1: mindhunter criminal minds and says that like you see criminal
Speaker 1: profiles even in shows like The Alienist, which is about
Speaker 1: happens in eighteen ninety six, Like, like the article goes,
Speaker 1: we hardly do anything about human psychology in eighteen ninety six.
Speaker 3: But I guess Malcolm.
Speaker 1: Gladwell did like a thing about this a while ago,
Speaker 1: and then uh, the research that they are talking about
Speaker 1: just says like it's just not conclusive.
Speaker 2: Like I mean, I guess I know, But I don't
Speaker 2: like Malcolm Gladwell. He's really like been a proponent about
Speaker 2: going back to the office, and I'm like, fuck off,
Speaker 2: I know you don't go to an office. I just
Speaker 2: find people that don't actually go to office as being
Speaker 2: like it's good for you. It's like this is all
Speaker 2: about real estate and money for rich people. Like everyone's
Speaker 2: lives are better not having to go to the office.
Speaker 2: And anyone that is pro office to me, you're not.
Speaker 3: I don't. I'm against you. I agree, I agree with
Speaker 3: you on all that.
Speaker 1: But Malcolm Godwell does call out a lot of bullshit
Speaker 1: rich people shit, Like he has a great article. He
Speaker 1: has a great episode of his podcasts Revisionist History about
Speaker 1: golf courses and how golf courses are like total bullshit.
Speaker 1: They take up so much fucking land in cities that
Speaker 1: could be used for people to enjoy. They're privately owned.
Speaker 1: They don't pay taxes, like basically tax paper. Why don't
Speaker 1: they pay taxes because there's these loopholes where like specifically
Speaker 1: in LA the members are the owners, so they can't
Speaker 1: be tax like because the membership owns the club, even
Speaker 1: though there are owners of country.
Speaker 3: Clubs like people. So it's all set up like tax shields.
Speaker 1: And you know, like there's places like in Toronto where
Speaker 1: there'll be private golf clubs, like the city will own
Speaker 1: golf clubs that members can only go to them on
Speaker 1: the weekends. It's members only on the weekends, but in
Speaker 1: the week anybody can go. And I'm like okay with that,
Speaker 1: you know, like let's let the membership money pay for
Speaker 1: something that helps other people in the city. But they
Speaker 1: just take up tons of public fucking land and they're
Speaker 1: just for rich people. So he definitely goes after other shit.
Speaker 1: But I agree with you on the office space thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. He's probably trying to make some
Speaker 1: kind of statement about what it does for us culturally
Speaker 1: as human beings, that we need to be around each
Speaker 1: other and blah, blah blah. But I haven't actually heard
Speaker 1: him talk about that. Oh God, I feel like I
Speaker 1: haven't taken a breath in ten minutes. Anyway, that's the
Speaker 1: story of the bike path rapist fucked up.
Speaker 3: I'm glad they solved it.
Speaker 1: Crazy that SVU kind of did a episode based on
Speaker 1: it and then it it all shook out.
Speaker 2: Well and get ready for our post mortem because there
Speaker 2: are no guests. Well, this is wild because we were
Speaker 2: just talking in the intro about Danny Masterson and this
Speaker 2: is the This is like completely in line with reality.
Speaker 3: You know, she's like, but he's my husband, but he
Speaker 3: has a puppy and well, now.
Speaker 2: You've been a woman and cut off her skin, but
Speaker 2: not do I mean this biting whatever? Like this is
Speaker 2: actually the perfect episode too with what is going on
Speaker 2: where people just because they have friends they can't be
Speaker 2: rapists or because your friend didn't rape you.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, this guy almost reminds me of the guy
Speaker 1: from those episodes we haven't actually covered them, but like
Speaker 1: the ones with Michael Jay Fox's wife Tracy Pollen where
Speaker 1: the guy ends up he's just like a rich guy
Speaker 1: that just does this and he collects little tokens like
Speaker 1: he takes necklaces and bracelets and stuff.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Uh, I remember the Tracy episode and it's like that
Speaker 2: episode's all about like the post trauma and they do
Speaker 2: a good job, but I don't Actually there.
Speaker 3: Are two of them.
Speaker 1: The bad guy, Yeah, there's two of them, because there's
Speaker 1: like one is like when it first happens to her,
Speaker 1: and then they catch up with her like a couple
Speaker 1: of years later, and she's like a vigilante now or something.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the bad guy kind of looks like Matthew
Speaker 1: Modine and he's just this really smug, rich guy who's like,
Speaker 1: I didn't do any thing, and his wife is covering
Speaker 1: for him until she realizes that all the gifts that
Speaker 1: he gave her were trophies from his victims and that
Speaker 1: he probably loves seeing her wear them, so she does
Speaker 1: that little sick total. But like, yeah, this guy, the
Speaker 1: guy in the real case too, just like had garden
Speaker 1: parties potlucks. People said he was a good guy. It's
Speaker 1: just like really, honestly, don't know. Potlucks are trash. Make
Speaker 1: wanted you host a little bit, be a host. Potlucks
Speaker 1: are trash. I hate bringing stuff to a pot luck
Speaker 1: because I'm just not unless I could just bring like
Speaker 1: something from the grocery store, I'm just not good at
Speaker 1: like I don't know because.
Speaker 2: I don't trust people, like and it's transporting. Here's a
Speaker 2: potato salad I drove in my hot car, like ha ha,
Speaker 2: I understand telling people like, oh, bring some drinks and
Speaker 2: desserts some but like if you're hosting, fucking host And
Speaker 2: this actually showed up on my phone where it was
Speaker 2: you know, am I the ass list and that, and
Speaker 2: there were these white women were talking about if it's
Speaker 2: a child's birthday party, it said food will be there,
Speaker 2: but it's for the kids. And I guess one adult
Speaker 2: was like annoyed, and so they were like, excuse me,
Speaker 2: it's a kid party. We're not here to feed everyone.
Speaker 1: And then the one person who was not white, not
Speaker 1: sure where she's friend, was like, oh, yeah, no ethnic
Speaker 1: people's that's what you're saying is wild. Yeah, you feed
Speaker 1: every single person. There's an abundance of food, and you
Speaker 1: send people home.
Speaker 3: With food, is what she was saying.
Speaker 1: And they're like, well, what if the families have siblings?
Speaker 1: She goes, yeah, no, everyone gets.
Speaker 2: They're like what about the spouses, like they couldn't under
Speaker 2: they could not believe feeding everybody.
Speaker 3: No, like this is my problem.
Speaker 1: When Jared's like, you invited so many people to Rosie's birthday,
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, the issue is if she has fourteen
Speaker 1: friends and they all have a little brother and they
Speaker 1: bring two parents, that's like fourteen times four. Like immediately
Speaker 1: it's a party of eighty people, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like it's and you have to feed every That's just
Speaker 1: that's why I'm ordering massive pizzas that are the size
Speaker 1: of like a desk, because I need to feed everybody.
Speaker 1: Like that is a crazy Like that's a I don't
Speaker 1: know anyone who I've never been to a kid's party
Speaker 1: and I've been to dozens where they're like the foods
Speaker 1: drifts for the kids. Yeah, these women or the rules
Speaker 1: were like short said lunch, they mean unicorn, bread and popcorn,
Speaker 1: not you feed yourself.
Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, that's who, that's who has a potluck.
Speaker 2: That's who goes come to my party. But by the way,
Speaker 2: it's buyob and potluck that's Byob and Paul. The only
Speaker 2: time a potluck is appropriate is when it's like a
Speaker 2: party where everyone at the school brings a dish from
Speaker 2: their heritage.
Speaker 3: I can get behind that. You bring an Israeli.
Speaker 1: Salad, you bring some strogan off, you bring paiea if
Speaker 1: we're trying to taste the world, yeah, children, then yes.
Speaker 1: And I've done it potluck stile at my house, I
Speaker 1: guess where I've said, like it's last minute and it's
Speaker 1: just good friends and I'm like can you bring this?
Speaker 1: And you bring this and I'll do this, and we
Speaker 1: kind of like divided off quick pay.
Speaker 2: That's different. That's you going, hey, I'll order the dinner.
Speaker 2: Why don't you bring this?
Speaker 1: Or yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's friendship. But the thing
Speaker 1: is that friend the times with friends, we will bring.
Speaker 3: Stuff to each other's house, of course, but we are
Speaker 3: not what's the word made to feel like you have
Speaker 3: to yeah obligated?
Speaker 2: Yeah, obligated because you know, I had a friend you
Speaker 2: know exactly who it is where if you stayed at
Speaker 2: their home and you did not leave them gifts, they
Speaker 2: would talk shit about.
Speaker 3: You to your They would tell you, oh, will you
Speaker 3: were supposed to leave me a gift? Oh yeah?
Speaker 2: They would scream at you, going, why didn't you pay
Speaker 2: for our pedicare? Like because I remember one time I
Speaker 2: was like trying to get until a flight and Kara
Speaker 2: was driving me. I wasn't living in La yet, and
Speaker 2: I was like, I have to go buy a gift.
Speaker 2: I have to leave them gifts. And she's like, do
Speaker 2: you really have to leave them a gift?
Speaker 3: You got it. I'm like, I have to leave a
Speaker 3: gift or they get this.
Speaker 1: And then I had real friends sit me down, going
Speaker 1: you could just hang out, you could truly come to
Speaker 1: our home.
Speaker 3: We do not need gifts from you.
Speaker 1: And it was a big learning experience because I felt
Speaker 1: so made to feel like a horrible person. If it wasn't,
Speaker 1: I don't know, And I'll always pay for a dinner. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well yeah with friendship, it's like I'll bring something.
Speaker 2: But if I go to your house and I don't
Speaker 2: bring something, I don't think once I leave, you'd be like, God,
Speaker 2: that ungrateful little bitch.
Speaker 3: She didn't bring a cheese. You know, I just don't.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wait, I feel like we should at this point call
Speaker 1: out an article that our friend wrote that we both
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. Let's do we have There's a comedian
Speaker 1: that are that we both like, named Matty Connors, and
Speaker 1: she wrote.
Speaker 3: At the end of August.
Speaker 1: So I guess the article came out about a month
Speaker 1: ago called Generosity and Paranoia, and it's the and then
Speaker 1: the subtitle is the American Love Language, and it's on
Speaker 1: Dirt and the website for Dirt is dirt dot FYI,
Speaker 1: we'll post a link to it in the show notes,
Speaker 1: but just want and I can also probably do a
Speaker 1: story of it day it comes out. But we really
Speaker 1: enjoyed this article and it was like a lot about
Speaker 1: giving gifts and generosity. That was interesting, So we'll call
Speaker 1: that out.
Speaker 3: People are trash, but that's the thing.
Speaker 2: It's like, I always want to bring stuff, but then
Speaker 2: someone that's like, listen, the flower shop was closed.
Speaker 3: We're good friends who cares? Yeah, yeah, But I also
Speaker 3: don't like coming.
Speaker 2: I think I'm full of contradictions, honestly in this post mortem,
Speaker 2: because I also I don't like going to places empty handed.
Speaker 3: No me neither.
Speaker 1: But if I really am, yeah, I usually bring a
Speaker 1: bottle of wine. If I can't, I go, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I couldn't get it together to get the wine before
Speaker 1: I came, like, you know, and they're like, you're my friend,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, you know, And I think if you're
Speaker 1: habitually coming and being a bit like I have a
Speaker 1: friend that comes to parties and just like brings garbage
Speaker 1: and then just eats like he's never eaten before, like
Speaker 1: an animal, and you're just like, you have to like
Speaker 1: calm down at parties.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you think you're not going to type
Speaker 2: into the chat who this is, you are mistaken. This
Speaker 2: is yes, eating all your food and bringing trash.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah people. Yeah, I don't even know that.
Speaker 3: There's a few of Yeah, I don't even know.
Speaker 2: I get confused between all the varieties of this person's name.
Speaker 1: But okay, delete that break. Yeah, but one time I went,
Speaker 1: at least Mitch mcconald for a second.
Speaker 4: I did.
Speaker 1: We can leave the break, and if we were trying
Speaker 1: to prove it, people will probably think it broke it.
Speaker 3: But I did Mitch the one time.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be offended if you said I'm Mitch mcconald,
Speaker 2: you know, because everything else is like I kicked school
Speaker 2: children and you're like, look at this McConnell.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: One time I went to the house of like a rich,
Speaker 2: famous person and I did bring like chips and white claws,
Speaker 2: and I immediately felt humiliated because he had a chef
Speaker 2: and two bartenders, and so I like hid my bag
Speaker 2: in the kitchen. So I guess if you're going to
Speaker 2: someone that's super rich, you don't have to bring it anything.
Speaker 2: What I what bothers me is I've read about etiquette
Speaker 2: that you can't you shouldn't bring flowers unless it's in
Speaker 2: a vase, and it's like.
Speaker 3: It's hard to get a vase. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: I do like flowers though, in like nice like paper
Speaker 1: versus like plastic, like you know, like it feels like
Speaker 1: it's classier when it comes from like the florist in
Speaker 1: our neighborhood does like this pretty like wrap around it,
Speaker 1: and it makes me feel like I've spent more neighbor
Speaker 1: our neighborhood's incredible. The florests, every single piece of our
Speaker 1: neighborhood is amazing.
Speaker 2: Well, I woke up telling you this this morning. We're
Speaker 2: in the time machine. I don't know if you cared.
Speaker 2: But when I was talking to my mom, she goes,
Speaker 2: what are you doing for Russia, Shanna? And I'm like, nothing,
Speaker 2: like going to a couple of birthday parties. She goes,
Speaker 2: you better eat a circle hala and apples and honey.
Speaker 2: I go, I'll bet, I'll get a bagel and she goes, no,
Speaker 2: a circle Hala, apple and honey.
Speaker 1: You have to.
Speaker 2: And then I was on Instagram before bed and Belle's
Speaker 2: bagels goes last data pre order circle.
Speaker 3: Halla is an apple cake. So I did it.
Speaker 2: So I hopefully I'll see you that because I don't
Speaker 2: think I can finish a whole hala in apple cake.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to come up from My kids will eat Halla
Speaker 1: and they eat apples and honey for breakfast, like all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 3: It's Russiashana in my house constantly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I will bring I'll bring my Russia Shana
Speaker 2: goodies to your house for breakfast lunch vibes, and then
Speaker 2: we can do a little Jewish hang with the kids. Yeah,
Speaker 2: let's sprinkle a little Judaism on my children because they're
Speaker 2: not getting too much of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a fun new year, you know why not?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, let's move on right to Sister Peg. No,
Speaker 1: let's talk more about Judaica. Yeah, let's move on.
Speaker 3: For what would Sister Peg do?
Speaker 1: Our weekly segment where we give you guys a resource,
Speaker 1: an organization, a book, a blog, something to give you
Speaker 1: more information about what we talked about in today's episode, We're.
Speaker 3: Gonna point you once again.
Speaker 1: I know we've we've pointed to this organization before, but
Speaker 1: not for a while, and they are like a vital
Speaker 1: national resource for rape survivors and survivors of abuse. And
Speaker 1: that's RAIN, which is the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network.
Speaker 1: It's the nation's largest anti sexual violence organization. I truly
Speaker 1: can't find other ones that are as national as RAIN,
Speaker 1: and so I think they what they do is they
Speaker 1: operate the National Sexual Assault Hotline in partnership with more
Speaker 1: than a thousand local sexual assault service providers, So I
Speaker 1: think they work to kind of bring together what all
Speaker 1: fifty states offer in terms of rape crisis across the
Speaker 1: country and operates the DoD Safe Helpline for the Department
Speaker 1: of Defense. So for more information about RAIN, you can
Speaker 1: go to www dot r ai NN dot org. That's
Speaker 1: going to be also posted on our Instagram page and
Speaker 1: stories the day that this episode comes out and will
Speaker 1: be saved forever in our WWSPD highlight.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for taking us through that and
Speaker 2: next week please join us as we do. Why did
Speaker 2: I sound so NPR ye, we will be doing the
Speaker 2: episode Competence Season three, episode twenty two. Wow, we're really
Speaker 2: obsessed with these the early years, Glue, Peacock, all that
Speaker 2: good stuff, and we're obsessed with you.
Speaker 3: Give us a nice little review, give us some stars.
Speaker 3: Let's go.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: We love you guys. We'll see you on the road.
Speaker 1: We'll see you in your ears and check you later.
Speaker 3: Bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information. Thank you so much to our producer O'Brien,
Speaker 1: and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cotner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song,
Speaker 1: and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 3: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia.
Speaker 1: Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Danielle Kramer, and everybody at exactly right
Speaker 1: media
Speaker 3: Dun, dun,