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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: A production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 3: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 2: They call b Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 2: super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 2: are you. You are here that makes this the stuff

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Speaker 2: they don't want you to know, and thank you for

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Speaker 2: tuning in. What do you think about aliens, folks, whether

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Speaker 2: you're a skeptic or died in the wold true believer,

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Speaker 2: there's no denying UFOs have been everywhere in the news recently,

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Speaker 2: and we wanted to go to an expert on this,

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Speaker 2: so we have something special for you tonight, friends and neighbors.

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Speaker 2: We are thrilled to welcome back the award winning documentarian, filmmaker, investigator,

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Speaker 2: world traveler as we came to find, as well as

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Speaker 2: podcaster the one and only Payton Lindsay to make sense

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Speaker 2: of all this stuff through the newest season of his

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Speaker 2: hit podcast High Strange. Pay Dude, You're back.

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Speaker 4: I'm back man. Thanks for having me, let's talk about aliens.

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Speaker 2: You're going to sort it all out right here.

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Speaker 5: And I think I think within this hour we're going

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Speaker 5: to solve it, and we have to talk about it.

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Speaker 4: So watch this whole thing because we'll figure it all out.

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Speaker 6: Take those aliens.

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Speaker 2: U p U A p is kind of cool.

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Speaker 4: Kind of cool, cool either way.

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Speaker 2: As cool as your cardigan and pay we were Noil's

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Speaker 2: got a sick UFO card again. Uh, zoom in as

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Speaker 2: you watch Netflix, folks, Yeah, exactly, pension Zoo Payne. We

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Speaker 2: were talking a little bit off air before we rolled. Uh,

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Speaker 2: this is indeed your fourth time hanging out with us

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Speaker 2: on stuff they don't want you to know. Is that

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Speaker 2: a record had?

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Speaker 4: That is? I mean for any other guest, Do I

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Speaker 4: get like a medal?

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Speaker 2: Or there was talk of a jacket. Yes, five time

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Speaker 2: rule says per Saturday Night Live that on your fifth time,

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Speaker 2: we do have to get you a special jacket.

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Speaker 4: So basically you're never gonna happen me on ever again.

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Speaker 2: No, we're working with.

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Speaker 3: Accounty budget as we speak.

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Speaker 6: It's also like the kind of jacket you get if

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Speaker 6: you behave poorly in prison. You know, you get the

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Speaker 6: jacket jacket you record, it's on your permanent record being

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Speaker 6: on stuff I don't want you to know all the

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Speaker 6: four times.

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Speaker 2: That's a great segue there too, because a lot of

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Speaker 2: folks who may somehow not be familiar with High Strange

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Speaker 2: just yet, they doubtlessly know your storied background in previous

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Speaker 2: true crime investigations like Up and Vanished, for instance, or

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Speaker 2: the Monster series which you've made with our pal Matt Frederick.

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Speaker 2: One of the first questions probably for everybody in the

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Speaker 2: audience tonight, if they somehow haven't heard of of High

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Speaker 2: Strange Pain, how would you explain it to someone who

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Speaker 2: had it was a new idea to them. And also,

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Speaker 2: how would you explain it to an alien.

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Speaker 3: I'd explained.

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Speaker 4: They'd be similar.

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Speaker 5: I would say most of the alien UFO content that

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Speaker 5: I grew up consuming, that I obviously loved and influenced

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Speaker 5: me as a person as a creative, All that stuff

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Speaker 5: made me curious at a young age. I always felt

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Speaker 5: like it was mostly geared towards people who already believed

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Speaker 5: or already wanted to believe, which was me. I've always

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Speaker 5: wanted to believe, But I wanted to create a show

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Speaker 5: that kind of went a little bit more down the

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Speaker 5: middle and invited more of the masses to say, hey, look,

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Speaker 5: something's going on. We're not going to we don't know

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Speaker 5: exactly what it is, but at this point we can

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Speaker 5: say there is something, let's just explore that. And so

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Speaker 5: I kind of took the same true crime investigative approach

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Speaker 5: I've done with other shows like Up and Vanished, and

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Speaker 5: just applied it to what I feel like is one

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Speaker 5: of the biggest mysteries.

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Speaker 4: Of all what's going on? Are we alone? What's out there?

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Speaker 3: So in season one, I remember us talking a lot

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Speaker 3: about the Betty and Barney Hill incident and the Rendelsham

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Speaker 3: Forest incident. And if you if you're watching this, you

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Speaker 3: want to go hear that, Go check out High Strange

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Speaker 3: season one, because I remember you covered those pretty extensively,

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Speaker 3: and my goodness, fascinating individual incidents right where somebody encountered

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Speaker 3: something and then how does how does that encounter pass

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Speaker 3: over through time? If you had to point to like

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Speaker 3: the main incidents or people that you're talking to in

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Speaker 3: season two, what would you say that is?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think in general, I mean, just speaking

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Speaker 5: about Rendall Sham and Betty and Barney Hill, I am

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Speaker 5: drawn to some of the older cases for a couple

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Speaker 5: just simple reasons, because hey, it's twenty twenty six. Is

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Speaker 5: this an AI rendering of me right now? Or is this,

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Speaker 5: you know, is this my habitar?

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Speaker 4: What's real? What's not?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 5: What would be a convincing UFO photo today that you know,

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Speaker 5: couldn't wouldn't have a big asterisk next to it. But

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Speaker 5: when you go back further in time and you have

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Speaker 5: these you know, old recordings, hypnosis tape and you know

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Speaker 5: Kodak images that are film, these kind of stories to

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Speaker 5: me hold more weight because they are before this like

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Speaker 5: technological leap we've had. And so I'm kind of drawn

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Speaker 5: to that, not only from nostalgia way, but I think

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Speaker 5: that there's some of the the last standing stories that

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Speaker 5: don't have all of the red tape that any new,

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Speaker 5: profound UFO story of modern day would have, right And

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Speaker 5: so in the new season, I explored with Streeber's story.

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Speaker 5: He's a prolific guy, well known in the UFO world.

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Speaker 5: Different opinions about whether or not it's true. He's had

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Speaker 5: major success with making books and movies about his experiences.

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Speaker 5: Great storyteller, and it's stories like that. And then the

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Speaker 5: broad the broad Haven incident which happened in in Wales, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, back in.

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Speaker 5: Late seventies were a bunch of school children and teachers

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Speaker 5: all saw this craft and some claim they saw it

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Speaker 5: being So it's like you know the mass sightings and

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Speaker 5: you know before TikTok less reasons to get attention. You know,

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Speaker 5: kids in a small town in Wales weren't trying to

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Speaker 5: get attention from the international news.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 5: So like so like these kind of stories to me,

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Speaker 5: whatever happened, it's strange and like it it crosses that

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Speaker 5: line of like, Okay, maybe it wasn't Aliens. Maybe it was,

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Speaker 5: But if it wasn't, then there's a weirder explanation here

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Speaker 5: as well.

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Speaker 2: Well, I said, yeah, there's also there's let's go back

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Speaker 2: to a point that you made right at the top

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Speaker 2: they're pain which is the following. It's your documentary and

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Speaker 2: background right where investigators we're holding objectivity. You and the

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Speaker 2: team over at High Strange do something just phenomenally well.

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Speaker 2: Aside from the production, which is insane by the way

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Speaker 2: that I describe it as cinematic, Yeah, aside from the

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Speaker 2: cinematic production here, you're going into this clear headed but

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Speaker 2: with an open mind. And you're not veering too far

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Speaker 2: into credulity or into automatically dismissive skepticism. In the course

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Speaker 2: of season two, has it been challenging to maintain that objectivity?

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Speaker 2: Like how do you do it when you hear these

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Speaker 2: bonker stories?

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Speaker 5: So, I mean, let's just compare it to a true

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Speaker 5: crime case, right if you are If there is a

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Speaker 5: like a very famous popular news story going around about

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Speaker 5: a missing person or an unsolved murder, everyone wants to

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Speaker 5: hear and.

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Speaker 4: See the suspect talk.

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Speaker 5: They want to they want to make their own assessment

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Speaker 5: of something. And so I try to find cases where

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Speaker 5: I'm getting as close as possible to the people who've

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Speaker 5: claimed to have experienced something and kind of let you

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Speaker 5: decide for yourself. They're making extremely extraordinary claims, but you

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Speaker 5: tell me if it rings true or not. Just because

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Speaker 5: it sounds insane doesn't mean it didn't happen. But if

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Speaker 5: they're making it up, are they just doing a really

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Speaker 5: good job at doing that? So maya like I try

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Speaker 5: to stay objective in the sense of I'm going to

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Speaker 5: play you some very compelling tape and I'm gonna go, hmm,

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Speaker 5: that's crazy. It's I think this person believes that happened

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Speaker 5: if it didn't, what does that mean if this person

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Speaker 5: believes that it did, right? Yeah, And so like, we

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Speaker 5: haven't really solved that mystery either. You know, there's sleep

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Speaker 5: paralysis and stuff like that, but there's other fringe events

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Speaker 5: that don't fit into all those categories. And so that

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Speaker 5: to means what's compelling. You could sit there and hear

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Speaker 5: someone tell a fantastical story and maybe not believe every

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Speaker 5: component of it, but say, hmmm, something something happened here, right.

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Speaker 3: I think the best example of this within High Strange

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Speaker 3: two is I remember hearing Jeremy Corbel's voice and you

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Speaker 3: guys are are talking about Area fifty one, you know,

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Speaker 3: and you you move on to the best case of

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Speaker 3: an individual who has told a story, continues to tell

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Speaker 3: a story and is possibly the most explosive story within

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Speaker 3: this whole world of uap UFOs and everything. But as

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Speaker 3: you know, all of us have just been individuals listening

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Speaker 3: to these stories and trying to come up with our

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Speaker 3: own answer if it's true or not. You do a

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Speaker 3: really great exploration of that. I wonder if you can

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Speaker 3: take us to the bob Blazar of it all.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean So Bob Lazar one of the most

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Speaker 5: infamous people in this space. I mean, he basically brought

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Speaker 5: the concept of Area fifty one into the center of

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Speaker 5: pop culture, not just in the tenfoil hat way, but

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Speaker 5: just in the way that we discuss whatever that place

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Speaker 5: is and whatever.

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Speaker 4: They do there.

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Speaker 5: Has insane stories, even down to the idea of the

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Speaker 5: flying saucer, what it looks like.

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Speaker 4: You know, he claims to have.

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Speaker 5: Worked on these spacecraft that looked like the if you

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Speaker 5: google flying saucer, looks like that, right.

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Speaker 4: Bob Lazaar is a very believable person.

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Speaker 5: He seems sincere, he seems smart, he seems like he

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Speaker 5: knows what he's talking about. It's hard to find the motive,

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Speaker 5: like the motive behind someone making up a lifelong lie.

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Speaker 5: But then you have these sort of asterisks in his

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Speaker 5: story where years later, upon fact checking and you know,

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Speaker 5: independent research, there were things that he said that couldn't

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Speaker 5: be proved or just were flat out untrue. And so

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Speaker 5: for me, especially coming from investigative journalism, if it was

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Speaker 5: a suspect and it was in the courtroom setting, if

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Speaker 5: someone had a history of life about these things, why

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Speaker 5: would you believe a more fantastical story.

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Speaker 4: If you were to lie about.

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Speaker 5: Something small, then wouldn't it make sense that you would

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Speaker 5: lie about something even bigger. I mean, I think that's

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Speaker 5: just like a human condition thing. I'm not saying that

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Speaker 5: that's how I feel. I'm saying I think that's how

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Speaker 5: the mass is typically tend to lean. And in a courtroom,

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Speaker 5: if it was a prosecutor in the defender, the prosecutor

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Speaker 5: would say, look, this person is known to lie about

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Speaker 5: all these things.

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Speaker 4: Why are we going to believe this person? Now?

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Speaker 5: They would be saying that, right, And so I brought

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Speaker 5: that point of contention up to corbel which is one

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Speaker 5: of it's one of the things that is uncomfortable to

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Speaker 5: talk about. But for me, like if Bob Bazar came

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Speaker 5: out and said, hey, look I made that part up,

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Speaker 5: I'd be like, okay, whatever, I could still probably believe

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Speaker 5: everything else. It actually might make me believe it more.

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Speaker 2: Because now we get more of an honest character.

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Speaker 4: Right, Well, it's interesting I exaggerated my resume.

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Speaker 6: Sorry, you don't really think about the courtroom aspect of

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Speaker 6: it all. I think that's an interesting thing to bring

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Speaker 6: up because these types of cases are not the kinds

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Speaker 6: of cases that typically end up in a courtroom to

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Speaker 6: be litigated in the way that you're talking about. They're

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Speaker 6: more litigated in the court of public opinion and wildly

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Speaker 6: speculated upon. So it's as interesting to kind of draw

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Speaker 6: that comparison, because you know, you don't often get to

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Speaker 6: look at these kinds of stories through that more legal lens.

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Speaker 6: And on that note, I was also just wondering how

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Speaker 6: you feel about this whole like kind of post truth

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Speaker 6: world we're living in more and more where even when

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Speaker 6: it comes to the news or the way certain things

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Speaker 6: are covered or the way certain governments talk about things,

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Speaker 6: feels like we're being lied to all the time, only

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Speaker 6: you know, with the facts we're being told or not told,

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Speaker 6: but literally with our eyeballs not being able to trust

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Speaker 6: a lot of images that we see or footage that

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Speaker 6: we see, and instantly calling into question so much quote

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Speaker 6: unquote evidence about things that maybe used to be much

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Speaker 6: more cut and dry. How do you think that kind

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Speaker 6: of figures in to the future of investigations surrounding the

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Speaker 6: paranormal and things of this nature, whether it be extraterrestrials

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Speaker 6: or you know, the kind of stuff that we like

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Speaker 6: to talk about on the podcast.

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Speaker 5: I mean I think it just it immediately opens up

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Speaker 5: this sort of existential question of what is what is truth?

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Speaker 5: What is reality? Can multiple truths exist?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 5: I mean humans themselves are historically not the most reliable witnesses.

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Speaker 5: You could have ten people witness a thing happen and

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Speaker 5: they thought he had a red shirt on, but it

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Speaker 5: was really like a purple shirt whatever, right, And I

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Speaker 5: think today it's the hardest it's ever been. And like

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Speaker 5: the way my brain works, I always want I want

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Speaker 5: there to be some like absolute truth, like what is

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Speaker 5: the and like I'm always gonna try to find that.

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Speaker 5: But the more I've explored in the unknown, the harder

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Speaker 5: that that tends to be. And I think that's a

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Speaker 5: testament to a lot of things. And if you just

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Speaker 5: go back to you know, belief, like yes, what what

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Speaker 5: would make you believe something is true? We already believe

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Speaker 5: in things that we can't see and can't prove, right,

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Speaker 5: Like I mean, right now, Like what's what's a silly example?

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Speaker 4: Like Okay, I'm on Wi Fi?

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Speaker 5: Right, I can't see the Wi Fi, but it's there

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Speaker 5: right somewhere, whatever it is.

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Speaker 4: If you're religious, you know.

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Speaker 5: Someone might say, okay, maybe they do see angels and

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Speaker 5: premonitions and whatever. But isn't religion just across the board

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Speaker 5: kind of like predicated on belief.

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Speaker 2: Well, absolutely, it's aving in.

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Speaker 4: It is part of it is part of the experience.

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Speaker 2: Like the stock market.

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Speaker 3: It's like crypto just money in general.

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Speaker 4: You've got to believe in bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: I want to push back just slightly. I mean, like

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Speaker 2: the Wi Fi, there's someone that can explain how that works, but.

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Speaker 4: I'm saying that we can see We can't see it.

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Speaker 6: For sure, absolutely, But what I guess what I'm getting

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Speaker 6: at is, like even the people that purport to be

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Speaker 6: the finger on the pulse of religion or the mouthpiece

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Speaker 6: of God or whatever, I would argue it's it's a

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Speaker 6: lot harder to you know, quantify those claims than it

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Speaker 6: is to like, you know, figure out the science behind

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Speaker 6: something like Wi Fi or even like what an objective

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Speaker 6: truth might be that we can you know, potentially prove.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm with you entirely. I think we're all

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Speaker 2: just like in this place where everything.

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Speaker 4: Is so well.

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Speaker 5: The difference is that we invented Wi Fi, so we

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Speaker 5: do know how it works. But the things that we

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Speaker 5: didn't invent or don't understand yet we're still just trying

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Speaker 5: to figure out or we're just guessing or speculating, or

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Speaker 5: we're assigning some sort of belief based on our own experiences,

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Speaker 5: our paths, our histories, our comfort zone, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Our pre existing information informs our perspective. So now we

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Speaker 2: have a new puzzle piece and we the human impulse

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Speaker 2: is by hook or by crook. This piece is going

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Speaker 2: to fit in my bigger puzzle.

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Speaker 3: And how to don't care?

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Speaker 2: I don't care. I want to dovetail into something you

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Speaker 2: mentioned really quick. This is something really stood out in

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Speaker 2: our notes while we're researching this, this conversation you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: I love the way you set this up. All you're

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Speaker 2: talking about not just human psychology, but also the nature

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Speaker 2: of reality. And in episode two, without spoiling too much,

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Speaker 2: you have this fascinating meditation on the psychology of inexplicable

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Speaker 2: encounters and you say, hey, these can challenge not just

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Speaker 2: a person's perception of a moment, but their perception of

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Speaker 2: reality overall. So do you think that these psychological challenges,

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Speaker 2: which are hardwired into the human mind, do you think

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Speaker 2: they might cause some people to just sort of ignore

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Speaker 2: a thing they've seen or try to explain it away.

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Speaker 2: How does that work.

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Speaker 5: From a psychology standpoint, which I'm not a psychologist, but

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Speaker 5: I've gone to therapy, you know, Like, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 5: people can remember things differently. In that analogy I was,

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Speaker 5: I was kind of very loosely, almost like a diary entry,

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Speaker 5: relating it to like a relationship of mine, and how

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Speaker 5: multiple truths can exist, same words, same room, same everything,

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Speaker 5: but walk away with different experiences. And I think that

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Speaker 5: is true with everything and human interaction to this thing

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Speaker 5: happens on the news. We all see the same thing,

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Speaker 5: but we're all going to perceive that differently.

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Speaker 4: And so back to the larger reality question.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think that already exists from just a

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Speaker 5: the way our brains work and how we consume and

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Speaker 5: compute information right and filter out what we're scared of

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Speaker 5: or what makes us uncomfortable, or what we're curious about,

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Speaker 5: what we want, what we don't want.

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Speaker 6: The same as the echo chamber effect to the inverse

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Speaker 6: of that, where we also kind of tend to consume

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Speaker 6: and bubble ourselves in these biospheres with the stuff it

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Speaker 6: does support our world.

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Speaker 4: Right and get out on them.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, but yeah, I think that the more I've

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Speaker 5: just dove into this topic talking to some of the

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Speaker 5: like cooler experts than me who've been studying UAP for

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Speaker 5: their entire lives, I think that it all eventually converges

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Speaker 5: on this concept of reality.

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Speaker 4: Like this is I'm going to be terrible at explaining this,

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Speaker 4: but like.

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Speaker 5: A UFO sighting in the sky, like what if it

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Speaker 5: could be there and then like not be there at

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Speaker 5: the same time, Like what if we're getting like a

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Speaker 5: glimpse of something else, Like it's really like there's a

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Speaker 5: physical thing there, but it also isn't or something. And

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Speaker 5: like I think paranormal and UAP, all these things kind

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Speaker 5: of there's an element of call it dimensions, call it whatever,

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Speaker 5: but like an overlapping thing or everything always existed at

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Speaker 5: once and always did.

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Speaker 6: Dude, Matt, you mentioned the thing about this something that

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Speaker 6: was contained in those disclosure files, about a hologram projection

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Speaker 6: of some sort. Tell me, because we talked about it recently,

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Speaker 6: and that was a David rush in my mind, and

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Speaker 6: I don't think I fully wrapped my head around. I'd

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Speaker 6: love to maybe take a second tip to chat about that,

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Speaker 6: because it really fits right in line with what you're saying, man.

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Speaker 4: I need to find exactly how David Grush explained that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, he did it well. And then you're kind

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Speaker 5: of like, huh, okay.

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Speaker 3: Well, I know for sure he mentions the concept of

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Speaker 3: projecting a three D image onto a two D plane,

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Speaker 3: and that's as simple as making a shadow, right right,

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Speaker 3: But then thinking taking that several layers up past two

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Speaker 3: D into four or five, six, thirteen whatever. Just the

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Speaker 3: concept of that my head. I always get tripped up

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Speaker 3: on the concept of how do you manipulate things if

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Speaker 3: you're projecting down?

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Speaker 4: Because what do.

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Speaker 2: You mean what do you mean down down into lower dimensions? Right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so from higher dimension and lower dimension, and the

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Speaker 3: only example.

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Speaker 4: But that's the assumption that there's higher and.

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Speaker 2: Lower right.

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Speaker 3: Here.

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Speaker 4: If anybody we're heading king.

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Speaker 3: I want to do something really quick, just based on

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Speaker 3: the discussion we've had. I saw on Instagram yesterday another

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Speaker 3: one of these, you know UAP videos or images. There's

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Speaker 3: so many of them that they hit every social media.

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Speaker 3: Some of them are just outright fantastical, some of them

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Speaker 3: are definitely AI. Some of them, you know, it's so grainy,

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Speaker 3: it could be anything. I found this one. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to share it just to see what we think, because

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Speaker 3: it's one of them. It's one of the strangest looking

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Speaker 3: alleged UAP I've ever seen, and you'll you'll notice. And

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Speaker 3: let's just I want to get some opinions and if

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Speaker 3: you don't mind, let's start with pain. Okay, here we go.

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Speaker 4: Yes, So I saw this one.

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Speaker 5: My first take was like, this looks crazy, this is

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Speaker 5: this is definitely a UFO. But then I'm not kidding

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Speaker 5: at last night, and again, I don't know. I didn't

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Speaker 5: fact check this, I didn't go like too much deeper,

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Speaker 5: but I saw another side by side image of a

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Speaker 5: balloon that looks exactly like that.

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Speaker 2: The mirrored kind of mylar texture.

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Speaker 5: Like almost like you could have taken a picture of

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Speaker 5: a bullet that this would have looked weird to even

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Speaker 5: the human eye. Right, Yes, but when they zoomed in

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Speaker 5: and they screenshotted this photo, you could have put that

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Speaker 5: in AI and then just kind of cleaned up all

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Speaker 5: the party balloon elements and kept the shape. And now

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Speaker 5: it looks like mechanical and I think that might be

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Speaker 5: what it is. I've not personally found in or looked

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Speaker 5: up that balloon.

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Speaker 3: Well, good luck, man, How do you verify something like that,

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Speaker 3: you know, I mean.

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Speaker 5: To me, it would be literally finding where you could

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Speaker 5: buy that balloon? Yeah, yeah, find Yeah, you should able

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Speaker 5: to find that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you should be able to find that balloon. If

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Speaker 2: whant to disprove the thing, we should also be able

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Speaker 2: to I mean we're in the age right where uh

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Speaker 2: there are entire online communities dedicated to figuring out whether

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Speaker 2: or not something is an AI generated image, So that

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Speaker 2: the best we can hope is to find the providence

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Speaker 2: like the first time this picture popped up ever and

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Speaker 2: where and then maybe yeah, and maybe you know, to

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Speaker 2: take a take a note from you paint, find the

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Speaker 2: person who first posted it and say, okay, give me

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Speaker 2: the story.

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Speaker 5: I'm more so like where I want to be able

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Speaker 5: to find on like Amazon or Ali Baba, Like where

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Speaker 5: can I buy this balloon? Perhaps because somebody bought this

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Speaker 5: balloon and let it go in the sky, but.

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Speaker 3: It appears to have first been posted a long time ago,

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Speaker 3: like twenty eighteen. Yes, okay, so.

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Speaker 5: We'd have to make sure that it was available for

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Speaker 5: purchase back then. So I will say, like, there's definitely

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Speaker 5: some things in the sky that are our balloons or

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Speaker 5: birds that are misidentified. But as much as we have

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Speaker 5: a UFO problem, I think we have a bigger we

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Speaker 5: have a bigger balloon problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, shut down there.

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Speaker 5: I've never seen so many cool ass balloons in my mind, that's.

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Speaker 2: What cause that whole airspace shutdown.

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Speaker 3: And I'll passo.

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Speaker 2: It was literally a party balloon, not even like a

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Speaker 2: weather balloon.

441
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 4: So I think there was more to that one. I

442
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 4: mean the official.

443
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 5: From what I read, I think that they were doing

444
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 5: a like a military tests.

445
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 4: And they didn't tell them.

446
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 5: Makes it kind of reminds me of the New Jersey

447
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 5: drone incident, where I feel like there's only so many

448
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 5: X explanations as to why there's so many things in

449
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 5: the sky and people are seeing this stuff, and the

450
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 5: governments like we don't know what they are, Okay, So one.

451
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 4: Why that's weird? Figure that out? What does that mean?

452
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 5: Does that mean it's an adversary just hanging out and

453
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 5: like one of the most popular populated like airspaces in

454
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 5: America between like New York New Jersey, Like that's like a.

455
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 4: Very heavily populated area.

456
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 5: So like if no matter what it was, you have

457
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 5: to think about why someone would choose that as the

458
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 5: area to do that for a long period of time,

459
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 5: and for me, the only it comes down to probably

460
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 5: being to test and see how we respond.

461
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 2: I like that answer because it also it also shows

462
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: a point that we have to we have to trumpet

463
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 2: at every opportunity, which is the US government, right, big,

464
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 2: dangerous labyrinthine, It doesn't always know what it is doing. Right, Yes,

465
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: because yes, compartmentalization. Did you run into any moments where

466
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 2: in the course of this season where you thought, Holy,

467
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: this changes the entire way I thought about, you know, implants,

468
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: or I thought about photography of UFOs. Were there any

469
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 2: things that really just rocked your world?

470
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 4: I think that.

471
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 5: I mean, growing up, it was always the like the

472
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 5: general UFO conspiracy is that, oh, you know, the entire

473
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 5: government knows and they're hiding alien bodies and spaceships at

474
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 5: Area fifty one. Right, that's a clean way to look

475
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 5: at it. But I mean, have you ever been to

476
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 5: the DMV, like right, right, you know, have you ever

477
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,719
Speaker 5: used the US Postal Service? Like I'm just saying, like,

478
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,719
Speaker 5: not all these systems are perfect here and they're not

479
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 5: all connected.

480
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 4: I r s like, come on.

481
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 2: What are the chances they could keep this under cracks successful?

482
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 5: Well, no, actually, I think that that lends towards the

483
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 5: fact that they could. Yeah, because there's a lot like

484
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 5: the US government doesn't make their top secret planes. They

485
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 5: outsource that. They're not equipped to make that stuff, they

486
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 5: go to Lockheed Martin, right, And so you have these

487
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 5: private sectors, private companies who are really kind of in

488
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 5: the depths of the real secret stuff whatever it is,

489
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 5: not like not the non human stuff, like real like

490
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 5: military tech like skunkworks.

491
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 4: Right.

492
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 5: And it's very possible that there is like a small

493
00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 5: black department that has intimate knowledge about certain things, and

494
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,959
Speaker 5: only some of that is disseminated to certain people in

495
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 5: places in order to keep studying it or.

496
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 4: Try to recreate it or whatever.

497
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 5: And I've thought about it, and I've put myself in

498
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 5: their shoes. There would be zero incentive to ever tell

499
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,239
Speaker 5: anyone any of this, not one thing other than the

500
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 5: moral we deserve to know.

501
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 6: From the Legacy program stuff that we talked about on

502
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 6: a recent episode.

503
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: Sorry, Matt, you had some.

504
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 3: I really like that picture you're painting their pain because

505
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 3: I'm imagining DMV, Post Office, all these other governmental agencies,

506
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 3: you know, even on the law enforcement side of governmental

507
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 3: agencies and intelligence side. Those those groups don't have full agency.

508
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: You have to follow you know, books and books and

509
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: books of how things are done in a specific order

510
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 3: or else that does not align with you know, true

511
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 3: information that we can trust or we can take somewhere

512
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 3: and use. We can't send that through the post office

513
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 3: if you didn't do it exactly the way the instructions. Say,

514
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 3: a group that you're describing that is inside somewhere, let's

515
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 3: say the Department of Energy or the Air Force, something

516
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 3: like that, it would have true agency where it could

517
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 3: just do what it needs to do and it doesn't

518
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 3: have to report anything. It doesn't have to be done

519
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 3: in a specific way. That is, I haven't thought about

520
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 3: it in that specific way before.

521
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: There are private contractors also with higher security clearances. Yes,

522
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: thank government employees.

523
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 4: So what are they going to do?

524
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 2: Are they going to walk away from all that money

525
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 2: and face these serious consequences for the idea of the

526
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: moral imperative which, just like you said earlier, paying is

527
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 2: similar to wi FI. It's invisible, the moral imperative. We

528
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: see its effects sometimes, but it's easy to ignore it

529
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: in your day to day life.

530
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, like as as as humans, as the

531
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 5: human species. Yeah, we deserve to know if we're not

532
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 5: alone in the universe, and we definitively know that, But

533
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 5: there is literally zero incentive for them to come out

534
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 5: and say that.

535
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 4: Whoever that is, what do they gain?

536
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 6: Did you see the Obama's take about UFOs or about

537
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 6: aliens on that podcast? Just curious because he basically said,

538
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 6: you know, if there are, then it is above my

539
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 6: pay grade, like it is not something that I, as

540
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 6: the president, would be privy to. And I think the

541
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 6: implication there was if that's not how it is, then

542
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 6: then it's likely not a thing. But I think to

543
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 6: your point and to Matt's point, and I completely agree,

544
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 6: I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility and

545
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 6: all there are things above the president's pay grade, you know, yeah, yeah,

546
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 6: I don't think.

547
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 5: I mean, if these programs exist, the president isn't aware

548
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 5: of all this stuff because not only an office or

549
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 5: for years or eight years if they get another term.

550
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 5: There have been presidents in the past that have tried

551
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 5: to poke around, Jimmy Carter being one of them, and he.

552
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 4: Had his own sighting.

553
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 5: And there's also like weird stories around kind of you know,

554
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 5: they're kind of more in folklore now about he did

555
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 5: get close. He found enough information and it kind of

556
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 5: messed them up. Right, I don't doubt if you're if

557
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 5: you're the president and you really tried, you could get

558
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 5: close to something.

559
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 4: But you're not briefed on that kind of stuff.

560
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: And we'll pause here for a word from our sponsors.

561
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 2: We'll return to Get High and Strange with Payne Lindsay.

562
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: And we're back, So High and so Strange.

563
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 5: I found the way that David Rush described the quantum mechanics.

564
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 4: Here we go.

565
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 5: So he says, in terms of dimensionality, the framework he's

566
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 5: familiar with is something called the holographic principle, and it's

567
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 5: driven from general relativity and quantum mechanics. And he says,

568
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 5: if you want to imagine three D objects such as

569
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 5: yourself casting a shadow onto a two D surface, that's

570
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 5: the holographic principle, So you can be projected quasi projected

571
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 5: from higher dimensional space.

572
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 3: Again, it's an amazing concept, right, and I think we

573
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 3: understand it. My question with it always you guys, is

574
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 3: if if you project a shadow of Matt onto the

575
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 3: wall over there, my shadow can't do it? Can It

576
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 3: can walk around? And you can be like Hey, I'm

577
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 3: a shadow, but I can't interact with anything on that wall, right,

578
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 3: I can't interact with anything in that two D space

579
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 3: where I'm being projected, which would always be my question,

580
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: how do you? How do you project down? And then

581
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 3: also be you know.

582
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 5: I think that was just the analogy right where it's

583
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 5: like the shadow is a two D projection that we

584
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 5: know what causes that, you know, the light shadow, but

585
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 5: holographic our shadows aren't holographic projection.

586
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, mine aren't.

587
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: I hate to tell you, guys, No, we'll save it

588
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: another right, they can be right this. I mean, I

589
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: do think it's a it's a phenomenal analogy because what's

590
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 2: the fourth like the two D the three D version

591
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 2: of the square is the cube, So what's the fourth

592
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 2: dimensional version of the cube is it's something we can

593
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 2: perceive the hypercube right or time cube by the way,

594
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: we'll bring that one back when you know. It's interesting

595
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 2: here because from the jump in episode one, I believe

596
00:34:55,320 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: of high Strange two we hear directly from David Grush,

597
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 2: and by all accounts, he seems to be very careful

598
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,479
Speaker 2: with what he can or can't say, and he tries

599
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: he seems to at least avoid going too far in

600
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 2: his claims. What's your read on Grush and his statements.

601
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: Does he seem credible to you? Does he seem legitimate?

602
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 5: I mean on the surface, just watching him talk and

603
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 5: seeing him, I'm like, I believe this guy. He seems

604
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 5: very believable. He doesn't seem like he's out to get

605
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 5: anything else out of this. I think, no matter what,

606
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 5: he believes this stuff and people have told him this

607
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 5: stuff for a long time. And so if that, if

608
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 5: what he's been told and experienced isn't true, it opens

609
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:04,280
Speaker 5: another door of who's cast lighting this guy for whatever reason?

610
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 3: Right?

611
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 4: I mean?

612
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 5: And not to say we wouldn't do that. And he

613
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 5: is very careful about what he says. One thing I

614
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 5: noted is that when you know, people in Congress were

615
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 5: asking him questions they wanted to know about the like

616
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 5: you know war, were they aliens? And he said that

617
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 5: or extraterrestrials And he says he doesn't like to denote origin,

618
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 5: and he prefers the term non human. And I'm kind

619
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 5: of like, okay, why not denote the origin? Is it

620
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 5: because we don't know or that there's multiple origins? Is

621
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 5: it AI, like from the futuren't human?

622
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 4: Right?

623
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: Is it AI traveling back in time? We've got to

624
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 2: We've got to talk just real quick. So everybody knows

625
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 2: that you traveled to DC for research on this show.

626
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 5: Correct, Yes, So I got like an email from another

627
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 5: friend journalist and I was actually just at the bar

628
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 5: with my friends in Atlanta, and then I gets tomorrow

629
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 5: in DC at like nine am.

630
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 4: I was like, I was like, should we go?

631
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 5: And we're like, yeah, we should go, And so we

632
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 5: booked a flight, went there, first time ever doing something

633
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 5: like that, and I will say we didn't get there

634
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 5: early enough to get in the actual like chambers. So

635
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 5: they had a spillover room right next door for other

636
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 5: journalists and it was also packed, and they were running

637
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 5: the live feed through there. And I actually was glad

638
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 5: that I was in that room because my experience was

639
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 5: totally different and I should probably play some of the

640
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 5: audio of it later on the podcast. But when David

641
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 5: Rush was saying some of these really profound claims, people

642
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 5: in this room were clapping, like it was like, for

643
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 5: what it's worth, it felt like a Steven Spielberg disclosure moment,

644
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 5: Like they weren't doing that, and like because they're quite

645
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,479
Speaker 5: not allowed to get kicked out. But like in this room,

646
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 5: they were clapping and whistling, and I was like, what

647
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 5: is going on?

648
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 4: This is weird.

649
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 5: And his claims are insane. So I don't know. At

650
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 5: what point is everyone crazy? I don't think so.

651
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 3: I hope not, because I like Mulder and Scully and

652
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 3: you and everybody else here want to believe. Can we

653
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 3: please talk about Whitley Streeper just a little bit. Sure,

654
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 3: he's got some of the most interesting depictions of one

655
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 3: of these things others, let's say, from some from elsewhere.

656
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 3: I believe it's in the first I think it's episode

657
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 3: I can't think it's episode one or two. I can't

658
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 3: remember pain it starts in one, goes into two.

659
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, it kind of.

660
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 3: So Whitley is telling this story of what happened to

661
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 3: him the day after Christmas nineteen eighty five, and man,

662
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 3: it's it's just some of the most disturbing imagery I've

663
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 3: heard when it comes to an encounter. Can you tell

664
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: us about the listos on things, the mechanical voice, the

665
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 3: way these creatures looked, the way he describes them, and

666
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: how they came to be with him.

667
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, he basically says that he woke up

668
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 5: in the middle of the night and he heard noises

669
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 5: around him and just kind of like the human instinct,

670
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 5: like it is someone in my house, you know, like

671
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 5: you hear weird noises, but like it was movement, like

672
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 5: there were people in there.

673
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 4: And then he he couldn't really get up.

674
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 5: But then eventually he rose up and he realized that

675
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,959
Speaker 5: he wasn't actually on his bed, he was somewhere else.

676
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 5: He was in this room that wasn't his house, and

677
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 5: he was surrounded by these tall, insect looking beings with

678
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 5: big black eyes, and they were just peering over him,

679
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 5: and they were like trying to stick a needle in

680
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 5: his head and experiment on him.

681
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 2: And it's fire in the sky type stuff.

682
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 4: Nightmarish kind of stuff.

683
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 5: And then wakes up the next morning, you know, he's like,

684
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 5: was that a dream?

685
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 4: What was that?

686
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,720
Speaker 5: And like some of it was foggy, And he says

687
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 5: that over the course of the next couple of weeks,

688
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 5: bits and pieces of it came back, and he felt weird,

689
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 5: He felt physically ill, like he had been hurt, and

690
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 5: so he went to his own doctor and they ran

691
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 5: some series of psychological tests, and they just did like

692
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 5: a general physical and inspected his body and he had

693
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 5: damage what he described as a rectal tear, which is

694
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 5: really where the whole concept of alien probing ever came from.

695
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 4: I think one of the first.

696
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 5: Episodes of South Park did a parody of this, but

697
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 5: this is really kind of where that became in pop culture.

698
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 5: This stuff, according to him, really happened to him, like

699
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 5: these these injuries are real, and that wasn't the first

700
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 5: time he was visited. He claims that this happened for decades.

701
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 4: Over and over again.

702
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 5: And one of the times, years later, he had another

703
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 5: incident where this car pulls up to his house and

704
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 5: a man and a woman who he describes as humans

705
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 5: not aliens, fight him and hold him down and put

706
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 5: something in his head. And then he realizes days later

707
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 5: that his ear starts to hurt and he feels this

708
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 5: little thing in his ear and it would buzz and

709
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 5: it would ring, and his doctor said it was just

710
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 5: a cyst, and so he kind of ignored it. Years later,

711
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 5: it was still bothering him, and he had a friend

712
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 5: who was a doctor and he was talking to him

713
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 5: over dinner and his doctor friend was like, just come

714
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 5: over to my office tomorrow and we'll take it out.

715
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 5: And they go try to do this allegedly, and when

716
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 5: the doctor gets the scalpel and gets inside his ear,

717
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 5: he goes to touch it and grab it, and he

718
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 5: claims that it moves, not that he poked it in

719
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 5: it no move like he tried to and it was like, no,

720
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 5: don't touch me. And he was able to get a

721
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 5: little tiny nick of it, but that was it. And

722
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 5: then he said, yeah, it's still right there in my

723
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 5: ear where it is right now today.

724
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 4: And I was like what. I was like, it's there

725
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 4: right now. He's like yeah.

726
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 5: I was like, can I feel it. I'm like he's

727
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 5: like sure, So I did. I walked over it. I

728
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 5: touched his ear. Sure enough, there is a thing in

729
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 5: his ear. I'm not a doctor, but it it felt

730
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,720
Speaker 5: like a little bebie from like a beak.

731
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 4: That's what it felt. It was hard, that's what it

732
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 4: felt like.

733
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 6: There are cysts that are non you know, lethal, that

734
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 6: can feel like that, can be like little right things

735
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:06,439
Speaker 6: that move around.

736
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: Just one in my leg, but man, the description is chilling.

737
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 4: Yeah.

738
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 2: I think he did the right thing by touching.

739
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 3: No question.

740
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 4: Would Yeah, absolutely, I would have regretted it for a

741
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 4: long time.

742
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, guys, got a thing in his ear. You got

743
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 3: to touch his ear.

744
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, prove it. I'm like, oh he does. Okay, Yeah,

745
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 4: and you.

746
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 2: Know fair is fair? Let him touch your ear too,

747
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 2: That's what he said.

748
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 4: He could have said time. I was like, is it okay?

749
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, just two things on that. It's baffling to me.

750
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 3: If you actually had something like that in your ear,

751
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 3: why wouldn't you take it out? And there's your proof, right,

752
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 3: You've taken out. Now you've got absolute, one hundred percent

753
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 3: proof that this thing happened. It was described as biomechanical

754
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 3: technology when they got that little sliver, right, Like, that's

755
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 3: at least what the doctor claims. That's what Lee describes.

756
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 5: In the podcast in episode two, when his story ends,

757
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 5: it ends with him saying, ah, yeah, it actually turned

758
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 5: Actually I have a weird story about this. It actually

759
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 5: turned on forty five minutes ago. It's been listening, it's

760
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 5: listening now, And I was in it, like in the moment,

761
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 5: I was like what like, And so I kind of

762
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 5: I kind of left it at that and left you

763
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 5: hanging there. But I asked more questions and I'll probably

764
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 5: put it out, but I was like, what do you mean?

765
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 5: And he basically began to describe that this thing is

766
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 5: in his ear, which he believes is an alien implant.

767
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 5: He wants it there because it's made him like, it

768
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 5: makes him smarter, he said what he says. When it

769
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:36,959
Speaker 5: turns on, he can speak better, he can understand better,

770
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 5: he can write better.

771
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 4: It's like a useful tool.

772
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 5: And he goes to the extent of saying everyone should

773
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 5: have this, and I was like, okay, whoa. And so

774
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 5: side note, this is like a really silly story, and

775
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 5: like if you want to get all conspiracy, it's funny

776
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 5: either way. But we were recording in this in this

777
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 5: hotel room in Italy at this conference, and when we

778
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 5: first got there, there was this annoying fly in the

779
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 5: room and we're like, we got to get this thing

780
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 5: out here.

781
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 4: It's so annoying. We could never catch the fly.

782
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 5: It was like the episode of Breaking Bad where he's

783
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 5: trying to get the fly the whole time, and so

784
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 5: we're like whatever, And every time we did an interview,

785
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 5: it would eventually go away or okay, cool, there's like

786
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 5: no buzzing sound. But during Whitley's interview about it was

787
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 5: like exactly an hour of his time that we had.

788
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 5: About fifteen minutes into it, that fly goes and it

789
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 5: lands on his knee and I'm like, so adhd. I'm

790
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 5: like I can't stop looking at this fly. And I'm like,

791
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 5: does anyone else see this? And he tosses his legs

792
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 5: stays on there. The fly stays on his knee the

793
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 5: entire time. What, Yes, it never it never flew off.

794
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 5: And then listening back to the tape, I was like,

795
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 5: he does say, like around forty five minutes ago that

796
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 5: it turned on, And I was trying to like like

797
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 5: like guestimate around when that would have been.

798
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 4: I mean, it does kind of math. I don't know

799
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 4: exactly to either way.

800
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 5: The fly thing was so strange and like as soon

801
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 5: as it raples, like, guys, you see the fly on

802
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 5: his knee and I was like, yes, like a little

803
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 5: drone or something like micro.

804
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 2: Drones, yeah, which could be a real thing. And did

805
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, did Whitley himself acknowledge the fly? Did

806
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 2: you ever say anything?

807
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 4: No?

808
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 5: I mean I was just kind of keeping him in

809
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 5: the story and we were just talking. I thought it

810
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 5: would just fly away. It never moved and he would

811
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 5: even readjust and he crossed his legs and the fly

812
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 5: never moved. We couldn't catch this fly or kill it,

813
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 5: but it landed on his knee in state.

814
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 4: I've just never seen a fly do that.

815
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 2: On Furst's And there's also another thing that we we

816
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: want to hit here that that you mentioned, which is

817
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: he was saying, Hey, I have a thing that maybe

818
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: an implant. I don't think it's a bad thing. It

819
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: helps me write, is one of the things you mentioned.

820
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 2: And people who are maybe more on the skeptical side

821
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 2: of Stryber's accounts, I often see them bringing up that

822
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 2: he is also a prolific fiction writer. But I think

823
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 2: that's I think to your point that those two truths

824
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 2: can exist.

825
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 4: Right.

826
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 2: Do you see people or on the more skeptical side,

827
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 2: do you see people trying to dismiss claims like his

828
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 2: because of other things in their past?

829
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 5: So actually I literally asked him that. I said, you know,

830
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 5: there's some people out there who, I mean, you're a

831
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 5: very successful storyteller and novelist. There are some people who

832
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 5: may be more skeptical, and they may believe that you've

833
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 5: embellished parts of this story. He challenged that by saying

834
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 5: that his injuries were real and all this stuff. I

835
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 5: will say my personal opinion, and this only comes from

836
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 5: having interviewed probably hundreds of people by now in all

837
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 5: walks of life, some of them being, you know, traumatized victims,

838
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 5: some of them being suspected murderers, some of them being

839
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 5: actual murderers, people who were lying, people who were giving

840
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 5: me half truths, people who told me things that I

841
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 5: thought I wouldn't believe and I ended up believing. Talking

842
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 5: to Whitley, my take is that it feels like he's

843
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 5: embellishing this and I could easily write that off as well.

844
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, he's a storyteller. He's a good one, right,

845
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 5: and I think he would tell a fantastical version of

846
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 5: him going to the grocery store, you know what I mean.

847
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 5: And it kind of like we all had like an

848
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 5: internal discussion after that about whether or not we believed

849
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 5: him or what we did and didn't believe in. All

850
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 5: of us on the team kind of like landed on

851
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 5: this point of is it even about believing like him

852
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 5: to a degree or like obviously it's part of it,

853
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,320
Speaker 5: but like we could just you know, bang our heads

854
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 5: against the wall forever about is he telling the truth.

855
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 5: It's more about like this person has spent his whole

856
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 5: life telling the story. I think that something did happen

857
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 5: to him, especially that first night, something unexplained, something traumatic.

858
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 4: And I think.

859
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 5: Even if I were to try to put myself in

860
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 5: his shoes, I might start to blur the lines between

861
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 5: my books and my movies and what I've really experienced.

862
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 4: And I think that may have been what I was

863
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 4: picking up on.

864
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 5: I guess I would compare it to Travis Walton, right,

865
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 5: he also has an insane story. But when I sat

866
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,879
Speaker 5: down with Travis Walton his I could tell from the

867
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 5: beginning he was like I don't want to do this,

868
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 5: like I don't want to relive this, you know, And

869
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 5: that really I was taken aback by that. I was like, Okay,

870
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 5: this is he really doesn't want to go revisit this. Whitley, however,

871
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 5: was on December twenty sixth, nineteen eighty five.

872
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 4: Okay, well, but.

873
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 6: My family, it's a defining thing that has shaped his

874
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 6: career and given them a story.

875
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 3: Toselfah.

876
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 6: And I'm not saying that he's being disingenuous and to

877
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 6: your point of pain. I think there are versions of

878
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 6: truth in that respect in terms of his belief in

879
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 6: what happened to him and the way it shaped his perspective.

880
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 6: But there's also a bit of an incentive for him

881
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 6: to fantasize it or what's the word, you know, fantastify

882
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 6: it a little bit.

883
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 2: To fabulate that's the word.

884
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, And like I don't want to, you know, because

885
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,720
Speaker 5: I'm a creator and we're all creators without a doubt,

886
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 5: if that had happened to me that first night, I

887
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 5: would be writing books and movies about that ship for

888
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 5: the rest of my life. So I definitely don't try

889
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 5: to use that as a variable as to like the

890
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 5: truth test. It was really just like my own human response,

891
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 5: Like that's really kind of and like, that's just based

892
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 5: on my own experiences. I was left with a little

893
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 5: bit of like I don't know if I fully believe that,

894
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 5: and I didn't have any preconceived notions going into it.

895
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 2: So there's also we have to be fair and say

896
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 2: at this time that you're you're speaking with with Ley,

897
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 2: he has you know this, this happened to him decades ago, right,

898
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 2: and every end. Memory can be tricky because memory asks

899
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 2: you to be your own eyewitness right, and your account

900
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 2: will change or has the potential to change a little

901
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 2: bit each time you remember it. But I think that's

902
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 2: just a phenomenal explanation. I am going to be thinking

903
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 2: about the fly for it.

904
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 5: So there things like that where I'm like, you know,

905
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 5: the fly thing didn't have to happen, but it did,

906
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 5: you know, like, and it can be totally meaningless, but

907
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 5: I'm like, it does.

908
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 4: It adds to the weirdness really quickly.

909
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 3: I would just want to bring up between episodes two

910
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 3: and three, you guys put out a bonus episode that

911
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 3: is pretty short. It is a nineteen eighty six hypnosiscession

912
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:50,359
Speaker 3: that Whitley does with doctor Donald Klein. And when I'm

913
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 3: thinking about the way Whitley tells his story, what he says,

914
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 3: you know, even we'recalling it right now, and how comfortable

915
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 3: he is telling it, I'm thinking about him screaming on

916
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 3: that and how disturbing that is. And then also I'm

917
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 3: thinking about that mechanical voice that he describes that says,

918
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 3: what does this say pain? What can we do to

919
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 3: stop you from screaming?

920
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 4: Or something like what what can we do to help

921
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 4: you stop screaming? God?

922
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

923
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 4: What?

924
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 5: And It's like so like, what can we do to

925
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 5: help you stop screaming? It's like, oh my god, I

926
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 5: don't like that.

927
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 1: You know.

928
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 5: Hearing his hypnosis tape and I heard it after I

929
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 5: interviewed him, it did further shape my.

930
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 4: Doubts.

931
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 5: I was like, wow, this is in the screaming, was like,

932
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 5: I mean, this is so intense. I don't even know,

933
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 5: like I put like all this in here. So I

934
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 5: put little bits and pieces in that, you know, first episode.

935
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 5: But then I was like, I think people should hear

936
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 5: more of an uncut version of this where it's like

937
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 5: hear him really talk about it, because it's weird, and

938
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 5: that's like, a that's the thing that happened, you know,

939
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 5: that's an early account. If this guy's making it up,

940
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 5: he went through a whole lot to do it.

941
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 3: And with that, we're gonna take a break. We'll be

942
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 3: right back after a word from our sponsors.

943
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 2: And we have returned. Let's dive in. I know we're

944
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 2: getting close to wrapping up for time with you here,

945
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 2: but this hits on one of the questions that I

946
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 2: had to ask. I was almost saving it for off air,

947
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 2: but man, all right, what do you think about hypnosis?

948
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 5: So I've never been hypnotized. I've never, like I guess

949
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 5: I never asked to have been. From what I've gathered

950
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 5: and I've actually talked to legit hypnotists and from what

951
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 5: I know about it, I think it's one of those

952
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 5: things where you can be hypnotized for real, but you

953
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 5: have to to give permission for the content you have

954
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 5: to it's kind of subconsciously. There's other things that we do,

955
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 5: like E. M. D. R therapy or something where we're

956
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 5: kind of unlocking memories. I don't think it's much different

957
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 5: in that sense where it's like traumatic experiences. You know,

958
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:24,280
Speaker 5: people have PTSD from anything. There are you know, ways

959
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 5: and methods of sort of unlocking that stuff and letting

960
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 5: it out and letting it go, or remembering something that

961
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:41,240
Speaker 5: you buried. So hypnosis sounds like a Last Vegas Magician show,

962
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 5: and I think in some cases that's what we're referring to.

963
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 5: But I do think that there is some legitimacy in

964
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 5: some of the usage of it in this stuff.

965
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 6: Do you think it's interesting though, too, because we know

966
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 6: how fallible our memories can be, and we tell ourselves

967
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 6: these stories and that can shape the way we remember things.

968
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 6: So the notion that hypnosis can unlock stuff. I see that,

969
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:09,320
Speaker 6: but it also feels like it could unlock other false.

970
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:10,399
Speaker 2: Stuff or.

971
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 4: It could be creative.

972
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 5: Yes, if someone misused it, they could definitely influence what

973
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 5: you're saying.

974
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 2: Especially through like memory regression, which, as we know and

975
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 2: also in previous work right that we've all done, we

976
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 2: know that there are some serious scientific questions about that.

977
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 2: I'm thinking of stuff like the Satanic panic right right,

978
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 2: how memory regression played a huge role there. Would it

979
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 2: be best then to describe actual hypnosis as a consensual

980
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:44,320
Speaker 2: trance state?

981
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,280
Speaker 5: I think so, okay, And it has to be someone

982
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 5: who's trustworthy to do it. I mean, like, there's people

983
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 5: who want to quit smoking cigarettes and they'll go to

984
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 5: a HYPNOTI like a hypnotist, and clearly the guy or

985
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 5: gal is saying don't smoke cigarettes or something like that

986
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 5: in their hypnosis session, So you could tell them to

987
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 5: keep smoking cigarettes, I could assume. So, I mean, there's

988
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 5: ways to like probably do this in a bad way.

989
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 5: But if we're saying that, even then we're lending credence

990
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 5: to it being a potential tool to unlock fuzzy memories

991
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 5: of something that maybe you're subconscious tried to protect you from.

992
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 3: In that hypnosis session, there's a thing that happens, and

993
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 3: I feel like it has something to do with this

994
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 3: big question of why would some other extraterrestrial civilizations, some

995
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 3: extra dimensional species, Why would they come here? Why would

996
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 3: they contact us? What is the You know, we're replying

997
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 3: our human reasoning and meaning to it, but if you

998
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 3: were looking for a why. In that session from nineteen

999
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 3: eighty six, Whitley says that he is being shown by

1000
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 3: these creatures images of Earth exploding, like literally like imagining

1001
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 3: yourself perspective in space watching Earth explode. And I think

1002
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 3: I keep thinking about that as like maybe a warning

1003
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 3: like this is coming or we might we would do

1004
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 3: this to you, But it feels more like a warning

1005
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 3: like this is a this is going to happen kind

1006
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:26,919
Speaker 3: of thing.

1007
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 4: We're definitely capable of doing that to ourselves with nuclear warfare,

1008
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 4: right sure.

1009
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 5: And it almost makes me think of Clockwork Orange where

1010
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 5: his eyes are peeled open and they're showing them all.

1011
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 4: This bad stuff. Right yeah.

1012
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 5: It could also I mean, if that really happened, it

1013
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 5: could also be more like, you know, the way humans

1014
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 5: currently are, you guys are very capable of blowing yourselves up.

1015
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 5: We know that, and there's a doomsday clock for that,

1016
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 5: you know. Yeah, I don't know, And it's in the

1017
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 5: The question as to why they would come here there

1018
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 5: is that's a very human question, right because because you

1019
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 5: could also ask like, well, why haven't you shown yourselves?

1020
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:14,439
Speaker 5: Right as if like I mean your favorite celebrity, why

1021
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 5: haven't they gone to my city and gone to dinner

1022
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 5: with me?

1023
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 4: Because they don't care, they don't know you're you know, Jeff,

1024
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 4: you know who you are. You know, it's like that's why.

1025
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 5: But I also look at it like there are places

1026
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 5: on our own planet where there are people. There are

1027
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 5: islands of people where they are left alone to live

1028
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 5: with no technology, and we're like not allowed to.

1029
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 2: Go there North Sentine Island, right, Yeah, we'd screw it

1030
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 2: all up.

1031
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 4: And so.

1032
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 5: And we have visited or illegally, but like there's sanctuaries basically,

1033
00:59:54,720 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 5: and so I mean even on Earth we to animals

1034
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 5: and we're like protecting like you know, a marsh or

1035
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 5: like this swamp preserve so the alligators and the ecosystem

1036
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 5: can continue.

1037
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 4: It could be something like that.

1038
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 5: I mean, if we're talking about something so advanced that

1039
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 5: we're sitting here debating today what's real about it or

1040
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 5: what's not? Then if it is real, then they would

1041
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 5: be advanced enough. Assuming that they're not out to kill us,

1042
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 5: which they clearly probably could if they wanted to. Maybe

1043
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 5: they're just checking up and doing scientific research like we

1044
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 5: do on everything else.

1045
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is also it goes into a beautiful point

1046
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 2: you made with the why being a human question, because

1047
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 2: we might not be equipped to really get to an

1048
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 2: answer because we're functioning under the burdens of humanity and

1049
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 2: all the assumptions. But I'd love to stick with the

1050
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 2: why for a little bit further out we've said why.

1051
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 2: You've made High Strange one of the busiest guys we know,

1052
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 2: and we all share the same love of the unexplained.

1053
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 4: We want to believe.

1054
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 2: What do we hope people walk away from having learned

1055
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 2: after experiencing this season of High Strange.

1056
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 5: I just want people to open their minds, because if

1057
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 5: you just look at the last ten years, fifty years, so,

1058
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,479
Speaker 5: it's so easy to wake up, even for me every

1059
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 5: day and be like this is it. You know, like

1060
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 5: there's nothing else coming, there's nothing else really to learn.

1061
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 5: You feel stuck in just sort of the monotony of this.

1062
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 5: You know, we used to do so many things that

1063
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 5: we didn't know were harmful to us. We used to

1064
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 5: not know that, you know, we could build this thing,

1065
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 5: and now it helps us. There's so much that we

1066
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 5: don't know, to the point where we can't even think

1067
01:01:56,040 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 5: of it yet, because we don't even know enough to

1068
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 5: think about solving that problem. And so I just feel

1069
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 5: like it's it's naive and also kind of limiting to

1070
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 5: yourself to assume that this is it and there's nothing

1071
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 5: else out there that we don't fully understand or know

1072
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 5: about yet. If you gave a caveman an iPhone, he

1073
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 5: he wouldn't know how to use it right, and he'd

1074
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 5: be like, what the hell is this? He'd probably smash

1075
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 5: it with a rock or whip it.

1076
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 4: Or worship it. But but you know what he couldn't

1077
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 4: do is recreate it, not yet.

1078
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 3: Not unless you had a lockeed Martin and it's print

1079
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 3: of energy all.

1080
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 4: I love it. I think we all have weird personal experiences.

1081
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 5: And you know, there's so much of the world is religious,

1082
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 5: and you know, a lot of religion is predicated on

1083
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 5: believing things that you can't see in touch and some

1084
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 5: people have different experiences, but it's mostly about what you feel,

1085
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 5: what you believe, the belief being at the core, and

1086
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 5: I think there's some real truth and power to that.

1087
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 5: And so I think it's just always better to keep

1088
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 5: an open mind because I don't know. I feel like

1089
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 5: I'm consistently surprised. Even when I have become hell bent

1090
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 5: on a certain answer or a way of thinking, I'll

1091
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 5: get challenged and go, well, I guess not, you know,

1092
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 5: and that will continue to happen. Keep an open mind,

1093
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 5: and I think the world is more fun through that lens.

1094
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 6: It's more of a superpower than a lot of people realize,

1095
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 6: because totally it is not. It is not to be

1096
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 6: taken for granted, having an open mind and being able

1097
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 6: to know what you don't know, and being willing to

1098
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 6: learn new things and to challenge your own views. I mean,

1099
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 6: especially now more than ever, with the whole lack of

1100
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 6: transparency and you know, rhetoric going on.

1101
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 3: I think it's really important.

1102
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 5: Do you think Trump's going to release actual files? Do

1103
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 5: you think he can't even get them?

1104
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 4: I think you might. I think it might be up

1105
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 4: to no good.

1106
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 5: I don't know, but I think I'm not talking about

1107
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 5: the motive I'm talking about. You know, will he fall

1108
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 5: through on that?

1109
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it was a reaction to

1110
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 2: that statement from the previous previous president that he doesn't

1111
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 2: really care for So he heard that and said, yeah,

1112
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 2: me too, though, don't forget I'm the cool one.

1113
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 5: So do you think it'll just like just drop that.

1114
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,040
Speaker 5: I think it'll just fizzle out.

1115
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it will likely be vaporware.

1116
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 3: It'll be likestein files. Right, there might be some stuff.

1117
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 5: At least they released three million of them, even though

1118
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 5: they're mostly redacted.

1119
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 2: Which itself is a staggering number because three billions still, that.

1120
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:55,440
Speaker 5: Always blew my mind, Like do I have three million

1121
01:04:55,480 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 5: of any dou correct?

1122
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 2: I wonder though, because this is something a lot of

1123
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 2: people outside of the United States don't realize. Folks, if

1124
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 2: you're watching from somewhere outside of the US, please know

1125
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 2: we're a little bit cynical sometimes because every time somebody

1126
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 2: runs for president, no matter what party or whatever demographic,

1127
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 2: at some point in their campaign they say, yeah, I'm

1128
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 2: going to figure out aliens every single one.

1129
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 4: Or legalize cannabis right a little bit or.

1130
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:33,439
Speaker 1: Point.

1131
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,479
Speaker 6: But there was talk for a minute about nationalizing, uh,

1132
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 6: you know, or decriminaliz student debt or changing the scheduling scheduling,

1133
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 6: thank you very much.

1134
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, if if we keep cutting agency funding, then

1135
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 2: won't drugs eventually all just become legal by default because

1136
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 2: there's no way to like, there's nobody to say what

1137
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 2: the schedule is anymore.

1138
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:57,480
Speaker 5: That is true, but those still be that one local

1139
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 5: sheriff is like, you're going to jail son, you know, Jeremy, all.

1140
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 3: Right, geeze locals Hey. In episodes twenty five and twenty

1141
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 3: six of Up in Vanish season four, Holy crap, I

1142
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 3: know more. When when do I get more of my

1143
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 3: sweet sweet up and vanished.

1144
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 5: The calls that you heard, I got those back in

1145
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 5: May of twenty twenty five, and it was at a

1146
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 5: really hectic time in my life. It was also the

1147
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 5: week that I was going to do that polygraph test

1148
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 5: with Oregon John, who was the main suspect in another

1149
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 5: associated case in Noam, Alaska.

1150
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 4: And that was stressful. The whole thing was just wild.

1151
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 5: And I kind of slowly communicated with this individual about

1152
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 5: getting permission to release the tape, verifying that it was

1153
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:51,960
Speaker 5: actually obtained legally, and it was there were all one

1154
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 5: Party States. And the craziest thing to me was that

1155
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 5: these people were never really on my radar, like that

1156
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 5: I knew who were in association with everything. But if

1157
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 5: you just hear them talking, you're like, why are they

1158
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 5: so up in arms about this? Like it just as

1159
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 5: a human response. And so I'm currently working on wrapping

1160
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 5: up several signed affidavits from different witnesses and individuals close

1161
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 5: to this, and my plan is to basically button this

1162
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 5: up as much as I can and approach the FBI

1163
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 5: with it because I think, I mean, I don't think,

1164
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 5: I know there is enough evidence here that warrants a

1165
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 5: third party to come in. All it takes is one weekend, guys,

1166
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 5: and just go interview everyone and ask them why they

1167
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 5: lied on this day and then this day and that

1168
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 5: day and figure it out, you know what I mean.

1169
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 5: I can't do that, and they're not going to do it,

1170
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 5: because this podcast proves.

1171
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 4: That they probably should.

1172
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 5: Now if I have, you know, signed out a davits

1173
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 5: from family members and witnesses and stuff that I haven't

1174
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 5: released and all put together, yeah, I'll give you guys

1175
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 5: that after we open a line of communication and then

1176
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 5: the clock starts. And then if you don't do anything.

1177
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:30,600
Speaker 5: Then I just released it all again. So that's it,

1178
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:31,639
Speaker 5: just like I did before.

1179
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:35,639
Speaker 2: Not the first rodeo by any means, so excited paint. Yeah,

1180
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:39,519
Speaker 2: that's gonna be. We're obviously looking forward to this and

1181
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 2: seeing how it develops. We also want to know where

1182
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 2: people can go to learn more, not just about High

1183
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 2: Strange and Up and Vanish, but all your other many projects.

1184
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 5: Yes, I mean Tenderfoot TV is the company. We have

1185
01:08:54,080 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 5: dozens of podcasts now suspenseful storytelling, true crime, really powerful

1186
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:05,759
Speaker 5: emotional stories, a lot of collaborations with you guys at

1187
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 5: iHeart and yeah, go check out Tenderfoot TV. I have

1188
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:16,639
Speaker 5: several other shows. High Strange is my latest, and if

1189
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 5: you're new to that, you can go bene season one.

1190
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 5: It's eight episodes. It's an easy listen, very bingeable, and

1191
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 5: then you'll be primed for season two. It can go

1192
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 5: binge that as well, and then in June we have

1193
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 5: a third installment coming out. But yeah, if you want

1194
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 5: to check out some of my true crime investigations, I mean,

1195
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 5: I guess you could start with season one of Up

1196
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 5: and Vanished, but I'll sound a little younger, but you

1197
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 5: can start anywhere you want, but I would say start

1198
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 5: with season four, just because I feel like I've gained

1199
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:51,840
Speaker 5: more experience every time.

1200
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:53,440
Speaker 4: And I get a little bit more.

1201
01:09:54,840 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 5: Aggressive with my investigative tactics each time, and I think

1202
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 5: to some listeners that would be refreshing from what you

1203
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 5: you may get from every single true crime podcast that's

1204
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:06,679
Speaker 5: out there.

1205
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 2: Well said in Payne Lindsey fellow conspiracy realist, Ladies and gentlemen,

1206
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 2: the one and only Pain, thank you so much for

1207
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 2: joining us today. Stay safe out there, man, Thank you.

1208
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 5: It's crazy out here. It's still dumping, It's it's wild snow, snow, snow.

1209
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:31,640
Speaker 2: What a wild ride of friends watching this on Netflix.

1210
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 2: You may notice that we have all shifted to a

1211
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 2: blue hue. We are recording this after we had such

1212
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 2: a wide ranging, illustrative and somewhat inspiring, somewhat disturbing conversation

1213
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 2: with our pal Pain.

1214
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 6: It was mainly so we could do a wardrobe change

1215
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 6: because it was just that good conversation with Pain. We

1216
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 6: were all sweaty, no super super cool. Much appreciated for

1217
01:10:57,439 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 6: Paine's time.

1218
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 2: What a neat dude, great.

1219
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:04,560
Speaker 3: Podcast, And one thing we talked about in this episode

1220
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 3: is the bonus episode that was put out by High Strange,

1221
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 3: where it's just the audio from a single hypnosis session,

1222
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 3: and it's like, it's pretty raw and scary and pain.

1223
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 3: After we recorded this episode, he went in and created

1224
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 3: a video asset that you can go watch right now

1225
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:23,240
Speaker 3: if you find High Strange on social Nice.

1226
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:26,679
Speaker 2: Awesome. Yeah, And we also had to take some time

1227
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 2: to figure out how on earth we're gonna get this

1228
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 2: guy his special jacket for his fifth appearance on the show,

1229
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 2: which we'll be coming up soon. In the meantime, folks,

1230
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,240
Speaker 2: we would love to hear your thoughts, especially if you

1231
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 2: have an experience that you cannot personally explain, whether it's

1232
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:49,719
Speaker 2: something odd you saw in the sky, whether it's something

1233
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 2: like lost time, perhaps sleep paralysis, perhaps you feel you

1234
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:59,679
Speaker 2: have met an extra dimensional or extra terrestrial entity. If

1235
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 2: so so, let us know. There are so many ways

1236
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 2: to get in touch with us. You can find us

1237
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 2: on the lines, You can call us on the phone.

1238
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 2: You can always send us an email. It's true.

1239
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 6: If you do seek us out on the aforementioned lines,

1240
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,360
Speaker 6: you can do so by searching out the handles Conspiracy

1241
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:17,679
Speaker 6: Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show.

1242
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 3: We have a phone number. It is one eight three

1243
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:24,559
Speaker 3: three std WYTK. When you call in, give yourself a

1244
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 3: cool nickname and let us know if we can use

1245
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 3: your name and message on one of our listener mail

1246
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,920
Speaker 3: episodes on the audio feeds wherever you listen to that stuff.

1247
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:34,680
Speaker 3: If you've got something else to say to us, why

1248
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:36,719
Speaker 3: not write it down and send it in an email.

1249
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:40,520
Speaker 2: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence

1250
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 2: we receive. Be well aware yet out of greid the

1251
01:12:43,439 --> 01:13:05,440
Speaker 2: void rights back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1252
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:07,879
Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1253
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1254
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:16,080
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,