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Speaker 1: Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. I'm

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Speaker 1: Jessica Savetto, executive producer of the Netflix series Dancing for

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Speaker 1: the Devil. The Seven M TikTok Cult. This documentary series

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Speaker 1: explored the story of Robert Shin, the La based Chakaina

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Speaker 1: Church and Seven M Films. Shinn founded Chakaina Church over

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Speaker 1: two decades ago before establishing seven M Films and is

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Speaker 1: named in a civil lawsuit alleging abuse and cult like behavior.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Clia Gray, former member of Chicina Church and

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Speaker 2: seven M Films.

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Speaker 1: In this episode, we discuss the words that are often interchangeable,

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Speaker 1: but that do differ slightly. High controlled groups and cults.

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Speaker 1: Will also dive into an acting coach and spiritual healer

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Speaker 1: where she also blurs these lines, highlighting how this person

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Speaker 1: in her practice allegedly operates and controls its members. I've

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Speaker 1: just been thinking a lot about the word cult. It's

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Speaker 1: a word to express extremes. And you know, I think

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Speaker 1: about social media and this feeling to want to be

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Speaker 1: a part of something, to be a part of a group,

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Speaker 1: and you see, we're exposed to so many things, and

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Speaker 1: it just seems that like cults are becoming more and

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Speaker 1: more common, and I can't help, but just like wonder

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Speaker 1: is it because people want to feel a part of something,

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Speaker 1: whether it be a religious organization, whether it be some

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Speaker 1: sort of self help, whether it be just like minded

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Speaker 1: people in finding that community. But through that, I also

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Speaker 1: feel like, like life, it's okay to change your mind.

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Speaker 1: It's okay to be fully invested and committed into something

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Speaker 1: and then realize it's no longer for you. Absolutely there's

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Speaker 1: going to be growth. You're going to grow as a person,

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Speaker 1: and you're going to observe friendships and situations and religious groups,

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Speaker 1: politics and say, you know what, that doesn't really align

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Speaker 1: with where I'm at anymore. And so as we go

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Speaker 1: into the continuation, and I know we've said this before,

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Speaker 1: to just remind our listeners to remain open minded and

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Speaker 1: to stay with an open heart, that these are extreme

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Speaker 1: circumstances and that people that we will hear from may

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Speaker 1: have changed their mind, and maybe they haven't, maybe they're

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Speaker 1: still part of an organization. We have no idea where

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Speaker 1: this is going to go, but to know that people

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Speaker 1: can change their mind and it doesn't make them dumb,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't make them naive. To me, it's more about

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Speaker 1: growth as people, absolutely, and so with that, I think

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Speaker 1: kind of going into the terms of high controlled group

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Speaker 1: and cult, I'm using quotes you can't see me. They're

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Speaker 1: often used interchangeably, like we said, but both describe groups

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Speaker 1: that push influence over its members, and so part of

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Speaker 1: today wanted to talk through a little bit about what

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Speaker 1: those mean, breaking it down a little bit more Before Khalia,

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Speaker 1: I share with you an interesting group that I came

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Speaker 1: across and how cult like environments don't always look like religion.

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Speaker 1: It's not always necessarily self help. It can mask itself

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Speaker 1: in just like minded people, and in this particular episode,

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Speaker 1: it could even be in acting. I think.

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Speaker 2: I have also been thinking about the difference between a

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Speaker 2: high control group and a cult and why it matters.

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Speaker 2: And I think because the term like cult, like you said,

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Speaker 2: there's a heaviness to it, there's an extremist to it.

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Speaker 2: And then when we look at like high control groups,

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Speaker 2: I think that's when a lot more muddy waters come

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Speaker 2: in where people may have a harder time to recognize

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Speaker 2: this is a high control group, because when we think

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Speaker 2: of cult, it can be those extremes like so, for instance,

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Speaker 2: me leaving Chicina. I'm like, Okay, that quite obviously was

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Speaker 2: a very specific religious like cults and almost every definition

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Speaker 2: of it. So I think you know the importance to

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Speaker 2: talk about high control groups because they both push in.

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Speaker 1: Us over its members.

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Speaker 2: They both can be very negative on different groups and

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Speaker 2: different communities, and like you had mentioned, even in like

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Speaker 2: an acting group or I think we've mentioned before, like

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Speaker 2: a relationship can be very or high control, a friend

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Speaker 2: group can be very high controlled. So I think it's

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Speaker 2: very important to add that into it as well. And

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Speaker 2: so one major point of a high control group is

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Speaker 2: any organization that enforces strict rules and expectations. It can

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Speaker 2: often restrict members behaviors, their thoughts and emotions and ways

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Speaker 2: that are deemed unhealthy. So they're not necessarily cult like

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Speaker 2: in a traditional sense, but they have significant control over

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Speaker 2: its members' lives and daily activities. And it uses the

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Speaker 2: same techniques as cults, like emotional manipulation, isolation, and authoritarian

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Speaker 2: leadership to maintain control.

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Speaker 1: In a let's just say an abusive or a high

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Speaker 1: controlled relationship. Isolation is a tactic that to me is

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Speaker 1: the first thing to really look for, Like, are you

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Speaker 1: starting to become distance from your friends, Like, what is

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Speaker 1: it when you do go out to see your family?

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Speaker 1: What does that control look like? So isolation and control

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Speaker 1: kind of go hand in hand. But with isolation members

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Speaker 1: people may still interact with outside world through behavior and beliefs,

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Speaker 1: but it also might be heavily influenced by a person

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Speaker 1: or a group. So what does that look like? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then that also leads to leadership and that there's

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Speaker 1: someone above you, and that leader may have strong authority,

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Speaker 1: but also might be a little less rigid than a

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Speaker 1: cult and maybe more room for questioning.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And I think when we talk about cults, another

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Speaker 2: common thing that we see is how difficult it can

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Speaker 2: be for people to leave. And so I know with

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Speaker 2: high control groups it can be difficult because of social pressure,

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Speaker 2: but not necessarily as dangerous as leaving a cult situation.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. And then lastly, perception often seen as legitimate but

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Speaker 1: overly strict. Members may feel social pressures, but leaving doesn't

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Speaker 1: usually result in extreme consequences, So that would kind of

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Speaker 1: transition us into a cult. And what the difference may be.

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Speaker 1: A cult is generally seen as more of an extreme,

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Speaker 1: like we were saying, a manipulative group that exerts intense

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Speaker 1: control over its members, often using tactics or deception, coercion,

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Speaker 1: and isolation from the outside world to maintain that power.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes that can be utilizing beliefs and religion seems

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Speaker 1: like a way to really bring in and hook people

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Speaker 1: into that right. Cults can also typically revolve around a

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Speaker 1: charismatic leader. You know, we talk a lot about Robert

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Speaker 1: Shin and you know, when I first watched some of

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Speaker 1: those videos of him, I got it. I was like,

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Speaker 1: he is very charismatic, he's playful and he's fun. And

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Speaker 1: obviously we've seen that it can go into extreme circumstances,

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Speaker 1: but you get it, you can buy into that. So

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Speaker 1: it could be a charismatic leader or a specific belief

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Speaker 1: system that is considered absolute. Members are often conditioned to

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Speaker 1: see the leader or belief system as the only source

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Speaker 1: of truth. Sometimes also they feel they are better than

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Speaker 1: people and that because the beliefs that they have gotten

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Speaker 1: are the truth, they know their way is right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And I think, especially with coults, the only way

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Speaker 2: to get access to that truth is through this particular group. So,

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Speaker 2: for example, in a religious cults, this is the only

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Speaker 2: place where you'll get the real word of God. Or

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Speaker 2: this is the only place you can get access to

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Speaker 2: this truth that we have found really common in some

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Speaker 2: of these groups that we've looked into.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, So, yeah, you have these religious groups and then

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Speaker 1: you have these extremes. I don't know if you saw

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Speaker 1: the documentary Twin Flames, but that's one where you're taking

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Speaker 1: matchmaking almost like people that are feeling lonely and maybe

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Speaker 1: having a hard time finding their partner and who's the

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Speaker 1: right partner. Maybe they've dated the wrong type of person

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Speaker 1: and kind of praying on that part of a person,

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Speaker 1: but feeling like a person can provide a service for

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Speaker 1: you that you can't get elsewhere or on your own, Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: But again with cults, it also goes back to control.

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Speaker 1: So those groups use extreme emotional and psychological manipulation to

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Speaker 1: control nearly every aspect of that member's lives. So once

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Speaker 1: they get you hooked onto what is the belief system,

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Speaker 1: whether it be religious, whether it be matchmaking, whether it

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Speaker 1: be acting, whether it be trying to break into an industry,

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Speaker 1: and saying this is the group, and this is the

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Speaker 1: group that's going to help you get there. Also, leadership

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Speaker 1: it centers around a charismatic, often authoritarian leader who is

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Speaker 1: seen as infallible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we also see a lot of structure with

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Speaker 2: leadership as well. That's something that I've also noticed is

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Speaker 2: like there's usually a hierarchy within the group, like the mentors.

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Speaker 1: Some mentor is like whatever the verbiage. We see that

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Speaker 1: type of hierarchy often absolutely and perception like you were

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Speaker 1: just getting into generally seeing negative lee by society due

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Speaker 1: to the manipulation and harmful practices, so from an outside perception,

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Speaker 1: but on the inside, that perception is fully in belief

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Speaker 1: that those practices are the right practices.

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Speaker 2: Or justified by some layer means within the belief system

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Speaker 2: for sure.

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Speaker 1: And then exiting it is very difficult in a cult,

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Speaker 1: and that might be an emotional because sometimes you have

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Speaker 1: leaders that are like, there's the door, you can lead

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Speaker 1: whenever you want, which we know that Robert has said,

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Speaker 1: but it's not that it's the manipulation that was done

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Speaker 1: mentally that breaks a person down. Of what happens when

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Speaker 1: you leave? Are you going to be cursed? We've had

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Speaker 1: people talk about that fear when you leave, and then

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Speaker 1: it takes something like stubbing your toe, a car accident,

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Speaker 1: the loss of a loved one, that is like, shit,

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Speaker 1: maybe they were right, Like all of these things are happening.

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Speaker 1: I'm sick because I left right. So I think that

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Speaker 1: really is an extreme version of exiting, making it difficult

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Speaker 1: for members to often face the severe emotional, social, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes physical consequences to leaving a cult.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think also financial a lot of times

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Speaker 2: with cults, especially people who have been in for a

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Speaker 2: long time, it's possible that they've surrendered their finances, they've

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Speaker 2: surrendered things in their name, they cited over to the

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Speaker 2: cult and the leadership, and so when they leave, it's

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Speaker 2: almost like starting from zero or starting from nothing.

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Speaker 1: That can be really difficult and the snowball that comes

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Speaker 1: with that. We've all been there, I imagine at some

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Speaker 1: point in our lives, unless you're extremely fortunate, which is

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Speaker 1: great for you that you know how difficult that is.

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Speaker 1: When you are starting fresh and you have these new beginnings,

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Speaker 1: there's excitement, but there's so much fear that goes around

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Speaker 1: it and the stress that comes with what that means

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Speaker 1: financially to be on your own. And we have people

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Speaker 1: that have also talked about how adulting becomes difficult when

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Speaker 1: you hand something over to a group to handle everything

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Speaker 1: like paying your bills, making decisions, you come out, and

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Speaker 1: that type of deprogramming and almost relearning of what it's

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Speaker 1: like to adult again. But again for the listeners that

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Speaker 1: have been in groups like that, remembering to give yourself grace,

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Speaker 1: take it a day at a time, and it's not

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Speaker 1: all going to happen at once, and there's going to

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Speaker 1: be really great days and there's going to be really

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Speaker 1: shitty days, and finding what works for you, finding those communities, group, family, meditation,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is that works for you to allow yourself

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Speaker 1: to have those bad days and take it a day

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Speaker 1: at a time. This is forgive me for I have followed.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Welcome back to forgive me for

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Speaker 1: I have followed. Now back to our conversation, Miscalia. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I know I mentioned to you that I was in

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Speaker 1: introduced to this other high controlled group that was unique.

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Speaker 1: It's coming in the form of an acting coach and

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Speaker 1: in the world of acting, which is different when you

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Speaker 1: think about what that looks like. Right, So, wanted to

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Speaker 1: share with you this particular story, this woman Candace Silvers.

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Speaker 1: So Candace is the daughter of comedian Phil Silvers, a

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Speaker 1: well known actor from the fifties. Okay, she's an actress

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Speaker 1: turned acting coach. Decades ago, she transitioned from acting to

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Speaker 1: kind of a self help guru, combining acting with life

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Speaker 1: coaching and energy healing. So obviously took a lot of

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Speaker 1: her worlds and just meshed them into one. So followers

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Speaker 1: see Candace as kind of this transformative mentor, and she's

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Speaker 1: cultivating a tight knit group of loyal clients in Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: including prominent actors and entertainers. So a little bit of

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Speaker 1: Candace's background her rise to prominence. Daughter of Hollywood legend

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Speaker 1: and twin sister of actress Kathy Silvers, she never gained

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Speaker 1: any major acting success, but transitioned into teaching acting under

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Speaker 1: Roy London. Her reputation as a respected coach grew, attracting

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Speaker 1: a dedicated following. As mentioned, she also had kind of

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Speaker 1: this spiritual journey that she was on and she also

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Speaker 1: utilized that in her coaching. So after Roy London's death,

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Speaker 1: Silver expanded her teachings to include life coaching and energy healing.

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Speaker 1: She studied Kundalini yoga and became involved in self actualization movement.

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Speaker 1: So to me, Kullie, this sounds like a actreice that

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Speaker 1: turned acting coach that would take some yoga on the weekends,

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Speaker 1: and she was like, ooh, this is a vibe, this

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Speaker 1: is my life. Let me embrace this type of healing

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Speaker 1: and started to then utilize those practices on at the

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Speaker 1: people and have them pay me to teach them. Yes, okay.

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Speaker 1: So continuing on, after Kundalini Yoga, she travels to India.

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Speaker 1: So this is starting to get where she's really immersing herself.

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Speaker 1: We all know this. This is also what we were

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Speaker 1: talking about earlier. You find something that you're interested in

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Speaker 1: and then you become super invested in it and give

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Speaker 1: your all. So she travels to India where she met

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Speaker 1: some people and adopted these spiritual practices. So she shifted

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Speaker 1: her personal and professional image to become a spiritual guru.

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Speaker 1: So known for her blunt language, profanity, and non traditional

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Speaker 1: approach to self help, Silver's created shock values in her lessons,

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Speaker 1: so she was speaking to a new audience, but through

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Speaker 1: spiritual practices. So critics argued her speech is a defense

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Speaker 1: mechanism to maintain control over followers by making them feel disoriented.

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Speaker 1: That's very reminiscent. Yes, yes, So the questions around her

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Speaker 1: confidentiality and boundaries were also up for debate, so allegations

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Speaker 1: of breaches and confidentiality with personal details from private sessions

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Speaker 1: being shared in public classes. That is an absolute nightmare.

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Speaker 1: If you are going into a therapist, you are going

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Speaker 1: into a coaching class, and you feel that you can

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Speaker 1: allow yourself to be vulnerable, this is where things start

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Speaker 1: to really cross the line and it is just not okay. Period.

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Speaker 1: But this raises concerns about silvers encouraging students to open

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Speaker 1: up and deeply painful experiences to then only use them

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Speaker 1: as teachable moments for all to be witnessed. It's not okay,

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Speaker 1: but also very reminiscent to what we heard people using

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Speaker 1: personal situations, including I know you and Kevin spoke about

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Speaker 1: when a situation that you were in was then brought

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Speaker 1: up on the pulpit. How that is meant to be personal,

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Speaker 1: that's meant a one on one conversation that's being used

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Speaker 1: to someone else's gain.

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Speaker 2: Right. It does sound like there's a lot of seeds

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Speaker 2: here that can lead to a bigger, more extreme problem.

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Speaker 2: But thank you for bringing this into the podcast, because

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Speaker 2: I think it is important to really get into the

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Speaker 2: things that are like cult like and high control and

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Speaker 2: things that we don't necessarily think of when we hear

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Speaker 2: the word cult, because like you said, it can be

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Speaker 2: an acting coach who now is dabbling in spirituality and

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Speaker 2: could be exerting some sort of undue influence on the

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Speaker 2: people who follow her, and now their personal details are

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Speaker 2: being shared, and now there may be other things that

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Speaker 2: she could be bringing up to them.

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Speaker 1: They're like, I don't know if I signed up for

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Speaker 1: this necessarily. Flash forward. Silver learned the practice from Ratchu Nabe,

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Speaker 1: Balanese priest, and rebranded it as a healing technique she

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Speaker 1: offers her followers. She markets it as a solution for

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Speaker 1: serious medical conditions, despite no formal studies supporting its efficiency.

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Speaker 1: This obviously brings in all these retreats to Bali, high

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Speaker 1: cost retreats to Bali where students are encouraged to immerse

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Speaker 1: themselves in Shiba murday. Now, this is something that kind

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Speaker 1: of peaued for me because I'm seeing a lot more

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Speaker 1: of these spiritual leaders, Yogi's women's groups even that use

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Speaker 1: retreats to bring like minded people together. I think that

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of positivity that comes with that. But

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Speaker 1: you see people like Candice that can also manipulate that

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Speaker 1: situation and utilize that to gain more control. Again what

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Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier. This is where the financial

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Speaker 1: ruin starts to come in, right, but also that you

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Speaker 1: need these retreats in order to hit another level, forcing

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Speaker 1: people way outside of their comfort zone. So she expands

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Speaker 1: into life coaching and quote unquote human behavior courses, also

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Speaker 1: giving me very scientology vibes.

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Speaker 2: By the way, is she accredited to teach human behavior courses.

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Speaker 1: Or this is no no, So again no formal studies

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Speaker 1: supporting some of these techniques that she's implementing. So her

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Speaker 1: teachings start to expand beyond acting, focusing on life transformations

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Speaker 1: and self improvement. She creates a very high cost retreat

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Speaker 1: as mentioned earlier, and then the accusations of unethical practices arise.

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Speaker 1: Allegations that Silvers manipulated her clients into making large financial commitments,

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Speaker 1: even encouraging them to take on debt to afford these retreats,

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Speaker 1: so really extreme levels. Here, concerns about her request for

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Speaker 1: commissions on clients' earnings, rivalrying that of traditional agents. So

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Speaker 1: acting coaches are a big part of the industry now.

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Speaker 1: Good acting coaches do help actors find the role find

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Speaker 1: accents in some situations really get into it. And there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of actors I know that utilize acting coaches. Now,

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Speaker 1: I've never heard of an actor paying their coach a

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Speaker 1: percentage of their earnings, so that's a little bizarre to me.

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Speaker 1: But again, she seems unconventional.

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Speaker 2: So she's basically charging like a management feared agent ZV.

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Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, this starts to go into some of the

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Speaker 1: questionable techniques and exploitation. So she allegedly shares personal stories

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Speaker 1: and traumas from her student's private sessions without consent, using

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Speaker 1: them from her teachings, which I mentioned earlier, also not cool.

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Speaker 1: So she has these claims that she pushed clients to

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Speaker 1: adjust their psychiatric medications without proper medical guidance, creating potential harm.

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Speaker 1: So she starts to take on an extremist role here.

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Speaker 1: So because I'm using the word stream, my personal opinion

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Speaker 1: is it feels a little cult like given the allegations

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Speaker 1: that are being presented forward. So, just based on what

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Speaker 1: we have in front of us, has nothing been proven

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Speaker 1: in a court of lolliet correct And because of that,

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Speaker 1: I do think it's important that we do remind ourselves

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Speaker 1: our listeners that these are allegations. When we return the

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Speaker 1: conclusion of our conversation, this is forgive me for I

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Speaker 1: have followed.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed.

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Speaker 1: Here is the conclusion of our conversation. Carrying on, now,

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Speaker 1: we're going into the criticism and the allegations. So former

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Speaker 1: students and staff accused Silvers of manipulation and toxic behavior,

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Speaker 1: comparing her to a false prophet quote unquote. So allegations

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Speaker 1: involve emotional manipulation, questionable business par practices, and exploitation of

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Speaker 1: personal information, which we kind of talked about. Where again,

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Speaker 1: when you're dealing with clients and as a therapist, like

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Speaker 1: we've all heard it, whether you've experienced it in your

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Speaker 1: own life, you got to keep what is shared with

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Speaker 1: you from clients confidential. Seemingly and allegedly, she's sharing that

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Speaker 1: information with other people. So not cool again on personal

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Speaker 1: information sharing, right, And then we're going to go into

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Speaker 1: Lindsey McKeon's story. She's an actress from Saved by the Bell,

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Speaker 1: The New Class and One Tree Hill, Oh, and initially

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Speaker 1: a committed follower, she eventually left Candace after realizing the

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Speaker 1: manipulative nature of the environment consulted a cult debriefer to

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Speaker 1: understand the scope of the manipulation she experienced. So again

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Speaker 1: this one kind of like I feel for her because

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Speaker 1: when you start to like the realization that wait, something

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Speaker 1: is wrong, and like the fact that she had a

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Speaker 1: consult one to say, like, what is that scope of manipulation?

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Speaker 2: Right? And I wonder, so if this actress Lindsay was

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Speaker 2: in Saved by the Bell, the New Class at One

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Speaker 2: Tree Hill, she had found some success in acting, I

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Speaker 2: wonder if it was through the coaching services that she did,

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Speaker 2: or if she had already had that and then joined.

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Speaker 1: Well, Candace may believe that it was because of that,

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Speaker 1: because as mentioned, she was trying to get management like fees,

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Speaker 1: because she felt responsible for some of these people's success,

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Speaker 1: allegedly allegedly, and we do see that as a theme

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Speaker 1: of taking credit. I can speak on my experience with

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Speaker 1: that ultimate narcissist right. Another client of hers was Jessicasuda.

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Speaker 1: She was a former Pussycat Doll member and described being brainwashed,

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Speaker 1: emotionally manipulated and controlled by Candace Silvers. She felt immense

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Speaker 1: gratitudude but also dependence on Candae and again later saw

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Speaker 1: that through that there was a lot of manipulation that

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Speaker 1: was happening. Not she infiltrated the Pussycat dolls. I love

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Speaker 1: the pussy Cat I know, I know, so she really

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Speaker 1: she was out there, she was working.

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Speaker 2: It's so sad, and I feel like I say this

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Speaker 2: every episode, but it really does make me feel less

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Speaker 2: alone because it's like, Okay, this really is rampant in

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Speaker 2: this industry. This is really something that people have gone through.

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Speaker 2: The emotional manipulation, the feeling controlled, the brainwashing, like oh,

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Speaker 2: and then even hearing that like she felt gratitude towards her,

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Speaker 2: which is like similar to me where I feel gratitude

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Speaker 2: towards Isaiah because I learned filming from him, but at

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Speaker 2: what caused, Like it was not worth the brainwashing and

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Speaker 2: it was not worth the emotional manipulation and the financial manipulation.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and knowing that he's a pawn in a bigger

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Speaker 1: game and a bigger scheme again whether he knows it

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Speaker 1: or not, and he's just blindly following, We're going to

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Speaker 1: give him a little bit of grace and credit there.

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Speaker 1: So going back, there were multiple former students who shared

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00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: similar stories of manipulation, control, exploitation of their vulnerabilities, and

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Speaker 1: Candace allegedly used her students' personal traumas and insecurities to

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Speaker 1: manipulate them emotionally. So again, it's all sounding very familiar.

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Speaker 1: You're sharing your deepest, darkest moments when you're trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out where you are spiritually, emotionally looking for guidance,

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Speaker 1: and knowing that that is being used against you to

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Speaker 1: manipulate you is just like the ultimate shape. So Candace

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Speaker 1: of course denies any allegation, and her representatives deny claims,

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Speaker 1: stating they were fabricated by disgruntled minority of former students.

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Speaker 1: They claim that the vast majority of her students and

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Speaker 1: clients are benefiting from her teachings and have benefited from

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Speaker 1: her teacher.

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Speaker 2: Someone had mentioned before, it's almost like these groups have

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Speaker 2: like a playbook where they do the similar things, because

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Speaker 2: that like, it was just one disgruntled employee, It was

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Speaker 2: just one disgruntled ex lover that was in love with

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Speaker 2: me and I didn't want to be with them, Like

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Speaker 2: it's such a similar story of like, no, that's just

404
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Speaker 2: one bad egg, it's not a shared experience. Meanwhile, there's

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Speaker 2: a dozen eggs that have come to tell their story.

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Speaker 2: So it's like it's not just one bad egg if

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Speaker 2: there's a multiple.

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Speaker 1: People, absolutely and knowing how those get twisted that like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that person was in love with me and that's why, uh,

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Speaker 1: they wanted this position the woman of God power and

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Speaker 1: they didn't get it, and that narrative starts to become

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Speaker 1: skewed amongst other followers, and then that starts to become

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Speaker 1: the truth to some people, and it's just not it's

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Speaker 1: a form of manipulation that we have heard in other

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Speaker 1: situations exactly.

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Speaker 2: And we know how we talked about like a high

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Speaker 2: controlled group can be a real relationship, and I feel

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Speaker 2: like I've seen and heard that often, and they will.

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Speaker 1: Use that as a tactic like, well, they were just so.

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Speaker 2: In love with me, and like everything they're saying is wrong,

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Speaker 2: they're crazy. Meanwhile, they're trying to warn people of like

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Speaker 2: allegations of domestic violence and sexual assault, and it's so

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Speaker 2: sad how that gets twisted and people tend to believe

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Speaker 2: the abuser. And that's just it's a sad reality that

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Speaker 2: we live in. And that's why I appreciate being able

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Speaker 2: to have platforms like this and many others that can

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00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 2: shed light on it and share that like this, this

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00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 2: is kind of the playbook, This is kind of what

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Speaker 2: they typically do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely well, And then you have the supporter's testimonials

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Speaker 1: exactly where we were going that it can be skewed,

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00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: that can be manipulated amongst those people that are still

433
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: very much supporters, and they would advocate and argue that

434
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: Candice had helped them overcome personal challenges like addiction, romantic issues,

435
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: and career stagnation. So support acknowledged her polarizing methods but

436
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: insisted they led to transformative growth. So again, she's kind

437
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: of hooking them in. That also comes with financial and

438
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: emotional consequences. As mentioned earlier, with these retreats, the students'

439
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 1: financial struggles included students professionals. They became financially burdened after

440
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: following Candace's advice, leading to debt and personal hardships. Some

441
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: followers also struggled to escape the grip of Kandas's influence,

442
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: feeling emotionally drained and manipulated.

443
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 2: If she really was telling her followers to go into

444
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: debt in order to get her teachings, that's a big

445
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 2: red flag for anybody, like, don't go into debt trying

446
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: to do something like you think about even in Chicina,

447
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 2: people that were draining bank accounts.

448
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: We heard from Migdahalia state that she started to see

449
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: those accounts just being drained and hearing stories from the

450
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 1: Wilking parents and it's like, you know, sharing this is

451
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: also to be like, hey, guys, here's some signs to

452
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: be looking out for if you find yourself in this situation.

453
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: Obviously we're talking about very heightened extreme situations, right, You

454
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: just never know, which then also turns into the mental

455
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: health concerns that come with these type of environments, which

456
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: we've talked openly about and what I loved so much

457
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: about Kevin who spoke openly about. But in Candace's environment,

458
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: some former followers reported worsening mental health issues, feeling re

459
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: traumatized by Candace's approach. Others expressed relief after distancing themselves

460
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: from her, realizing that the extent of emotional manipulation they

461
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: had endured that one is really tricky and it's definitely

462
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: something to be mindful of because when you're going into

463
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: the deprogramming or when you get yourself out of a

464
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: situation like that, you have to rebuild and those can

465
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: last a lifetime. I mean obviously, like for me, I

466
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever shared and I'm not going to

467
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: go into it in this episode, but I grew up

468
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: with an abusive stepfather to my mother, and whether we

469
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: want to admit it or not, or the growth that

470
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: we have as adults, that sticks with you, and that's

471
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: something that you have to work through your whole life.

472
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: And so this mental health concerns is always something that

473
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: I want to be mindful and sensitive to because everyone

474
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: kind of goes about it their own way. Right. Oh,

475
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, Jessica. Oh thank you. Honestly, we'll go

476
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: into that in another episode or another time, but this

477
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: is the thing too, similar to what we were saying

478
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: with Robert Chin. Candice Silver's is a polarizing figure. She

479
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: remains a controversial figure, with some praising her transformative impact,

480
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: others labeling her a toxic cult leader. The debate continues

481
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: over whether Silver's methods are a path to self realization

482
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: or a dangerous form of manipulation. So as far as

483
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: her legacy, despite the accusations, Silver continues to attract new

484
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: clients supporters, leaving a lasting influence on the Hollywood scene

485
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: and beyond that one worries me. But she's still out there.

486
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: She's still out there getting new clients.

487
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 2: And that's always the hardest part, I think, because even

488
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 2: you know my situation with she kinda, there's still making videos, there's.

489
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: Still attracting new clients.

490
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: There's still and I'm like, man like, even though all

491
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: of these people have come out and shared their story

492
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: and experience, I am flabrigasted that it can continue on.

493
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: Yes, and her website very much is active. It is

494
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: promoting small group healings, one on one zoom sessions, in

495
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: person healings, and she's traveling, so she's going to be

496
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: in Italy, she's going to be in Austin, Santa Barbara,

497
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Peru. So she's international. That's quite the story.

498
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 2: I really want to give kudos to all the people

499
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 2: who were brave enough to come and speak out against Candace.

500
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: They're very brave for being able to go out and

501
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: do it.

502
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 2: So we can even sit and have these discussions and

503
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: talk about like, Okay, these were the red flags in

504
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: this particular group. And so anyone who's considering joining this

505
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: acting coach Spiritual Gurus Services, please heed advice from the

506
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 2: people who have gone through it and had their concerns.

507
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: Thank you for doing this deep dive and bringing it up,

508
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 2: because I'm excited for what we're leaning into with Forgive

509
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 2: Me for I have followed and now I want to

510
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 2: go start doing more research on groups that we can

511
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: talk about on the platform.

512
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I want to also remind our listeners that

513
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: we are going to be introducing new cults, new high

514
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: controlled groups and sharing these type of stories to raise

515
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: awareness to look out for any of these red flags.

516
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: But also we want to be able to still provide

517
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: a platform. If you did find yourself a part of

518
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: Candace's practice, or you experienced her healing retreats, or even

519
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: just took an acting class, We'd love to chat with you.

520
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear about your experience and create a

521
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: safe space for you to share your story and your

522
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: experience with us. So, Fealia, thank you. Always love contributing

523
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: with you and doing these deeper dives and looking forward

524
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: to exploring more of these and talking to more people

525
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: and creating this platform for them. Absolutely well, thank you

526
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: guys for listening. We will see you next week. See

527
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: you next week. This is forgive me for I have Followed.

528
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: Forgive Me For I Have Followed as a production from

529
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: wv Sound, Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael toa podcast network

530
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: hosted by me, Kalia Gray.

531
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: And me Jess Cosabetto.

532
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 2: Forgive Me For I Have Followed is produced by Aaron

533
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: Burlson and Sophie Spencer zabos.

534
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Khalia Gray, myself, Wilmar Valderrama, Leo

535
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: Klem and Aaron Burlison at wv Sound.

536
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original

537
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 2: music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy. For more podcasts

538
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 2: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

539
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows. See you next week,

540
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: See you next week,