Speaker 1: Hello, Hey, what's up man? How you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm good man. Yeah, it's my day off from work,
Speaker 2: hanging out.
Speaker 1: What Uh what's your name, sir?
Speaker 2: My name is Steve.
Speaker 1: What's going on, Steve? What are you doing with your
Speaker 1: day off?
Speaker 2: Uh? Right now, I'm just feeding all my animals and
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go. There's like this natural spring that I
Speaker 2: go to to fill up water jugs. So I'm gonna
Speaker 2: go fill up my water.
Speaker 1: Oh cool? How many jugs do you think you're gonna
Speaker 1: fill up?
Speaker 2: I got these glass five gallon jugs, and I got
Speaker 2: I got three big glass five gallon jugs. Then I
Speaker 2: got five one gallon jugs.
Speaker 1: So how many gallons are that in total?
Speaker 2: Like twenty gallons? Dude?
Speaker 1: What's how big is a five gallon jug? That sounds huge?
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, it's yeah, and it's made it they're
Speaker 2: all glass, so yeah, they're pretty heavy.
Speaker 1: How is how close is the stream to your house?
Speaker 2: It's like a thirty minute drive. But like when they
Speaker 2: were making the road the highway, the people that were
Speaker 2: making the road just like tapped into these natural springs
Speaker 2: and put these like fountains on top of it, and
Speaker 2: it's just delicious clean water just coming out of the ground.
Speaker 2: You can just people just pull over off the side
Speaker 2: of the road and fill up their water.
Speaker 1: And there's no sediment in there, there's no dirt, there's
Speaker 1: no aids.
Speaker 2: No, it's yeah, I mean, do you see the water
Speaker 2: coming out? It's just crystal clear cold, fright. It's like
Speaker 2: it's literally the best water ever. It's great.
Speaker 1: You kind of sound like you have a very cheats
Speaker 1: and show vibe in your voice.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, man, I mean I got yeah, I got
Speaker 2: dreads like past like almost to my stomach, like creamage
Speaker 2: to my stomach.
Speaker 1: Why why do you fill up these jugs with water
Speaker 1: instead of just like what's wrong with the tap? You know,
Speaker 1: because and I this water sounds fucking delicious? But half
Speaker 1: hour drive is I mean that's an hour that's an
Speaker 1: hour commute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's not like I do it every week. You know.
Speaker 2: We probably go there like every two months, you know,
Speaker 2: like every other month. Well, and we just make like
Speaker 2: a family trip out of it, like, oh, we just
Speaker 2: go on the dry we fill up the jug. It's
Speaker 2: just kind of like, you know, I could see how
Speaker 2: it could be seen as inconvenient, but for us, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: the water's really good. It's free, it's from the earth,
Speaker 2: and you know we kind of just make like a
Speaker 2: little trip out of it.
Speaker 1: Who's we.
Speaker 2: Uh, me and my girlfriend and my daughter? You have
Speaker 2: this seven year old daughter?
Speaker 1: Oh, very nice house. Having a daughter.
Speaker 2: I mean, like it's cool. It's hard. It's not easy
Speaker 2: because you know, I feel like it's just you know,
Speaker 2: it's hard being just two people and a baby, not
Speaker 2: really having like a big family or like support system.
Speaker 2: So there's things that are hard about it. But then
Speaker 2: there's things that I really like about it. You know,
Speaker 2: like you can kind of like, you know, like I
Speaker 2: look at her and I kind of see like a
Speaker 2: younger me, you know, and it's like I'm able to
Speaker 2: heal my inner child by having a child sometime, you know,
Speaker 2: if that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, sure, How what uh maybe this might be
Speaker 1: a loaded question, but wh what do you need to
Speaker 1: heal about your inner child?
Speaker 2: Well? I feel like I feel like when I was
Speaker 2: a kid, I wasn't really like, uh nurtured, you know,
Speaker 2: like my parents are really cold and harsh and like
Speaker 2: didn't really do things with me. And I feel like
Speaker 2: I was kind of like, you know, my inner child
Speaker 2: was stifled a little bit like, no, you need to
Speaker 2: grow up. You need to you know, like like I
Speaker 2: feel like I missed out on a lot of childhood things,
Speaker 2: so you know, I like to be there with her
Speaker 2: and like do things with her instead of just like, oh,
Speaker 2: I give you food, I give you a roof, I
Speaker 2: give you clothes, that's it. That's kind of how my
Speaker 2: parents were, you know, like they're like, Okay, you know,
Speaker 2: we provide you with life and that's it, you know,
Speaker 2: so I try to do like more.
Speaker 1: Mmmmmmm right. Yeah, you had parents that just kind of
Speaker 1: gave you the things that they were legally obligated to
Speaker 1: give you, but didn't actually want to hang out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah my uh yeah, yeah. I
Speaker 2: left home when I was sixteen, you know, but I
Speaker 2: started running away when I was probably twelve thirteen years old.
Speaker 2: But I didn't leave for good twelve sixteen.
Speaker 1: Why did you start running away?
Speaker 2: My dad is an alcoholic and he's in the military,
Speaker 2: and he was like he wasn't very good at separating
Speaker 2: his work from his home, you know, like he would
Speaker 2: come home and just act still like a drill sergeant,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like he was treated his
Speaker 2: family kind of like how he would treat the Marines
Speaker 2: that he was in charge of. You know, he was
Speaker 2: a very harsh man, you know, like my way or
Speaker 2: the Highway kind of deal, you know, and like, yeah
Speaker 2: he was, yeah, he was. He was pretty mean, you know. So,
Speaker 2: and I was homeschooled all of junior high Yeah, yeah, man.
Speaker 2: So I started running away just because it felt like
Speaker 2: I had a better chance out there than I did
Speaker 2: where I was. But ultimately, is like when I was
Speaker 2: a young team, like thirteen fourteen running away, eventually I
Speaker 2: would have to come home because I would needed food
Speaker 2: like that. That. Like there was times where I would
Speaker 2: be gone for you know, a couple of weeks, but
Speaker 2: I just never could get enough food, so I would
Speaker 2: like come crawling back.
Speaker 1: Basically, So you were twelve and you ran away. When
Speaker 1: you ran away, where'd you go?
Speaker 2: I mean I was really I used to read so
Speaker 2: many books, and I would read a lot of like
Speaker 2: wilderness survival books like My Side of the Mountain and like,
Speaker 2: you know, just just books whether fantasy or fiction or
Speaker 2: like nonfiction where like you know, someone did that where
Speaker 2: they could just live off in the woods and like
Speaker 2: take care of themselves and stuff. And I mean I
Speaker 2: would run away and like be in the woods under
Speaker 2: a bridge, you know, like sneaking out, stealing food, you know,
Speaker 2: trying to find berries, you know, trying it just never
Speaker 2: would work out. You know, it's not really how it
Speaker 2: is in the books. You know, you read a book
Speaker 2: and there's always like, you know, people always figure because
Speaker 2: the story. It's not real life, so people always find
Speaker 2: a way. But you know, it's a lot harder than
Speaker 2: it seems. And I would always tell myself, you know,
Speaker 2: when I'm big enough to take care of myself, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go and I'm not gonna come back. And it
Speaker 2: was like probably a month after my sixteenth birthday, I
Speaker 2: was like, you know this is you know, I'm old
Speaker 2: enough now I can take care of myself. I don't
Speaker 2: have to be here. And I mean my parents didn't
Speaker 2: try and stop me. I was just like, you know,
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm ready to go. I want to go,
Speaker 2: and they packed me a backpack and I remember my
Speaker 2: mom looked at me. She's the last thing she said
Speaker 2: to me, She said, well, what are you going to do?
Speaker 2: And I remember looking at her and I just said,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I'm going to do it, you know,
Speaker 2: And like That's how it was. I had no idea. Yeah,
Speaker 2: my very very strict Christian household, very very sheltered, very
Speaker 2: very like in a bubble, you know, like not outside influence.
Speaker 2: Like we didn't have cable, we didn't have internet. I'd
Speaker 2: never used the computer, you know, Like we were like
Speaker 2: very sheltered, you know. So I just went out into
Speaker 2: the world, not really knowing what was going to happen,
Speaker 2: but I just knew that, like, whatever it was out
Speaker 2: there had to be better than where I was at.
Speaker 1: What did you leave with what you have on you?
Speaker 2: I mean I didn't even get to pick. My dad
Speaker 2: packed my backpack for me, and it was like my
Speaker 2: I had like this oversized school backpack, and I mean
Speaker 2: he threw like some clothes in there. I didn't have
Speaker 2: a phone, I didn't have a birth certificate, I didn't
Speaker 2: have an ID, I didn't have a Social Security card.
Speaker 2: It was like a bag with some clothes in it.
Speaker 2: And my mom snuck me a twenty dollar bill because
Speaker 2: my dad would have freaked out if he knew she
Speaker 2: gave me any money. And she gave me a twenty
Speaker 2: dollars bill. So that's how I know, That's how I
Speaker 2: started my life at sixteen, you know, I had a
Speaker 2: backpack with my old school backpack in like sixth grade,
Speaker 2: with some clothes in it and a twenty dollar bill.
Speaker 2: And I mean, I didn't I didn't know anybody because
Speaker 2: I was homeschool. I didn't have any friends to go to.
Speaker 2: We were living in Japan at the time. So they
Speaker 2: flew me back to the States.
Speaker 1: Wait, you were living in Japan during all this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh for a year. Yeah, for a year. My
Speaker 2: dad was in the Marines and we were stationed in Japan,
Speaker 2: and I lived in Japan, and we lived in Japan,
Speaker 2: and he just put out coming on a plane, flew
Speaker 2: me back to the States.
Speaker 1: Okay. So they so when you and when you were
Speaker 1: so when you were twelve thirteen and you were first morning,
Speaker 1: well yeah it was that was in California, Okay. And
Speaker 1: then you're in Japan and you're like, I cannot be
Speaker 1: with these people anymore. And so your dad says, well, okay,
Speaker 1: then you don't have to, and he packs your bag
Speaker 1: with some clothes. Your mom slips you twenty dollars. They
Speaker 1: put you on a plane from Japan to to back
Speaker 1: to California to lax Okay, and so you land in
Speaker 1: Lax and you have no money, you don't know anyone.
Speaker 3: Where do you go?
Speaker 2: What do you do? I ended up on skid row?
Speaker 1: How'd you get there? He walks, He's walk from LA I.
Speaker 2: Mean, I met this guy from Boston out there and
Speaker 2: he was basically like, kid, what are you doing? Where
Speaker 2: are you going? I was like I don't know? And
Speaker 2: he was like, well, I'm going this way to do this.
Speaker 2: And I was just like following behind him, and I
Speaker 2: mean he led me to skid row and fucking he
Speaker 2: turned out to be a crackhead. And uh so we're
Speaker 2: like going all up and down skid row. I mean
Speaker 2: there's like people laying in their own ship and piss
Speaker 2: on the sidewalk and we're like stepping over them. And
Speaker 2: like he ends up buying crack. He's sitting there smoking
Speaker 2: crack and I remember asked. I was like, hey, can
Speaker 2: I have it? He was like I wanted to get
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, can I smoke some? And he
Speaker 2: was like have you ever smoked this before? And I
Speaker 2: said nope, and he said, then you're not going to
Speaker 2: do it. And I think about that guy sometimes cause
Speaker 2: I'm like, man, you know, my life could have been
Speaker 2: on a lot different trajectory if he had it, just
Speaker 2: like not given a fucking ben Like, yeah, man here
Speaker 2: smoked his crack. Because I was a dumb kid. I
Speaker 2: was like, I just lost left my family. I had
Speaker 2: smoked weed before. I didn't really know what was going on,
Speaker 2: you know. So yeah, he was like, no, you're not
Speaker 2: going to smoke this. You've never done it. And he
Speaker 2: was like, so what do you do? Like all right,
Speaker 2: I smoked weed and he was like all right, And
Speaker 2: we went on on skid road just like looking for
Speaker 2: a bag of weed. And you wouldn't believe how hard
Speaker 2: it was to find a bag of weed. On skid row.
Speaker 2: You could find anything but a bag of weed. We
Speaker 2: finally found some and I smoked some weed and I
Speaker 2: ended up hitting up someone that because I was homeschool
Speaker 2: for junior high. But then I went to high school
Speaker 2: and I ended up hitting up someone that I went
Speaker 2: to high school losing. He came and picked me up
Speaker 2: and I stayed with his family for maybe a year
Speaker 2: or two. But yeah, and then then my life pretty
Speaker 2: much changed completely, all because of a Facebook ad. So
Speaker 2: I was like living in southern California. I had been
Speaker 2: so I got off skid Row. I was because I
Speaker 2: told this guy that I went to go. I was like, man,
Speaker 2: I'm on skid Row. I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2: So he came and got me. I stayed with him
Speaker 2: and his family. Him and his family were really cool.
Speaker 2: I ended up getting a job, and I don't know,
Speaker 2: life just wasn't I don't know, it was just boring.
Speaker 2: And I remember sitting there and I was on Facebook
Speaker 2: and I seen this ad for the four twenties Festival
Speaker 2: in Denver, Colorado. You know. It was just like I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go to this. And my friend was like, dude,
Speaker 2: you don't know anybody in Colorado, You've never been to Colorado.
Speaker 2: Don't do this. And I just like got two hundred
Speaker 2: dollars together, got on a Greyhound and just went to
Speaker 2: Denver for the four twenty festival. And like, you know,
Speaker 2: I I was always very spontaneous, you know, like I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna do something. It doesn't matter what anyone's saying.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna do it, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't matter how impossible it is, I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna do it. That was always my mentality. And so
Speaker 2: I go to Denver. And on the bus, I meet
Speaker 2: this juggler. Dude. He's covered in face tattoos like you
Speaker 2: would like like if you saw me, be like, oh,
Speaker 2: this guy is sketchy, this guy, but he was really nice.
Speaker 2: He's like this tall guy covering face tattoos. He had
Speaker 2: like clown tattoos, like the upside him, triangles under his
Speaker 2: eyes and like, you know, like this guy looked crazy.
Speaker 2: And he was like, hey, man, like you know, me
Speaker 2: and my friends are gonna have this four twenty barbecue.
Speaker 2: And I was like, dude, hell yeah, and he's like,
Speaker 2: you want to come with me? I mean, we had
Speaker 2: been talking on the bus from California to Colorado and
Speaker 2: he invited me to their barbecue. So when I got
Speaker 2: to Colorad, I didn't even sleep outside one night because
Speaker 2: I went straight to their house. It was like this
Speaker 2: big Juggalo house where like everybody in there is a
Speaker 2: Juggalo and they're having this huge barbecue and smoking weed
Speaker 2: and like everyone was super cool, and I like slept
Speaker 2: under their kitchen table. Yeah. Sorry, that was a lot.
Speaker 1: No Jesus, no, oh my no, this is this is
Speaker 1: uh no, this is a super super fascinating. It's funny
Speaker 1: that you bring up Juggalos because you know what, it's
Speaker 1: so funny you bring up Juggaloes because as you were,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm making a little uh documentary about uh going
Speaker 1: to the gathering of the Juggalos last month and everything
Speaker 1: you're talking about. I don't know, I don't know why.
Speaker 1: But actually, before you even said that you met a Juggalo,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about just like your story is kind
Speaker 1: of making me think about the gathering of the Juggalos.
Speaker 1: So it's weird that I was thinking about it and
Speaker 1: then you mentioned that you met a Juggalo because the
Speaker 1: Juggalo culture is very like, uh, like bohemian and welcoming
Speaker 1: towards you know, people who are are like, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of trying to get their footing, you know, so
Speaker 1: it's interesting you met one of them.
Speaker 2: Did you.
Speaker 1: Start to get involved in the Juggalo culture at all.
Speaker 2: I've always been a Deadhead, so I was like the
Speaker 2: grateful dead and the dead Heads and the Juggalos. We
Speaker 2: used to say that they're like they're like brothers, They're
Speaker 2: like step brothers. We got the same mom with different deads,
Speaker 2: and like on like the service level. You might not
Speaker 2: think that dead Heads and Juggalos would get along or
Speaker 2: have a lot in common. But like there's a lot
Speaker 2: of jugglos and deadheads who were like tight as folks,
Speaker 2: you know, like they're like best friend. Like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: have a lot of good friends that are Jugglers. You know.
Speaker 2: I listened to the music a little bit, but yeah,
Speaker 2: definitely more of a deadhead, you know. So I didn't
Speaker 2: really get absorbed into it, but I was like alongside
Speaker 2: with them.
Speaker 1: So you were, I mean, yes, So you took a
Speaker 1: greyhound from California to Colorado, met this juggal on a whim,
Speaker 1: the juggle guy. He invites you to this house. There's
Speaker 1: all these uh Juggalo people. They're having a party. You
Speaker 1: sleep there for a little bit, just on a whim.
Speaker 1: The plan was, but I mean, if you hadn't met
Speaker 1: this guy, the plan was to just kind of sleep outside.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I had. Yeah, it was just go to
Speaker 2: the four twenty event, and I'm I can talk to
Speaker 2: pretty much anybody. I can just walk up to somebody.
Speaker 2: I can just see somebody and just like start talking
Speaker 2: to them, and you know, so I was just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna go there. It feels right. You'll talk
Speaker 2: to some people, you know, but yeah, it was basically
Speaker 2: just you know, I've slept outside in California. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's summertime, there's early spring, you know, it's warm enough.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I ended up staying with them, and then
Speaker 2: I ended up getting a job with a tree service company,
Speaker 2: and then I got my own apartment right next door
Speaker 2: to there, so like in the same apartment complex, and uh,
Speaker 2: which was cool working tree service. I did that in
Speaker 2: Denver for like a year, but then yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: all all of my roommates and all my coworkers were
Speaker 2: drug addicts, so they have to tell like a lot
Speaker 2: of things about like you know, like roofing, a lot
Speaker 2: of people that do roofing, or like matheaddicts and opiate
Speaker 2: addicts and kind of same with like tree service. At
Speaker 2: least in my experience, a lot of the people were
Speaker 2: meth addicts and heroin addicts. And I still just smoked weed,
Speaker 2: didn't drink. But that's how I lost it all was.
Speaker 2: I mean, my roommates were my coworkers, we all worked
Speaker 2: for the same company, and basically the landlord had enough
Speaker 2: of their bullshit, you know, having people coming over at
Speaker 2: all weird hours, you know, just cops being called, just
Speaker 2: random you know, just random things when you're living with
Speaker 2: drug addicts, you know what I mean. So we ended
Speaker 2: up my boss ended up well, he was on parole
Speaker 2: and he ended up violating his probation because he was
Speaker 2: doing drugs, went back to prison, and then none of
Speaker 2: us had jobs, and then we lost our apartment. And
Speaker 2: because I really wish I had saved more money, because
Speaker 2: I was making really good money working for Tree Service,
Speaker 2: but I had never had that kind of money before,
Speaker 2: so I was just spending it as fast as I
Speaker 2: could make it, you know. I didn't have like I'd
Speaker 2: never had a reference for the money like that, like
Speaker 2: I was. I mean, there was days where we'd make
Speaker 2: I'd make a thousand dollars in a day, you know,
Speaker 2: and I had no idea what to do with that
Speaker 2: kind of money, you know. And at the end of
Speaker 2: the day when we got kicked out, I'm sitting there
Speaker 2: with all my bags and my cat, and I'm sitting outside.
Speaker 2: I don't have nothing. I don't have any money, I
Speaker 2: don't have anywhere, you know. So that, yeah, that that
Speaker 2: was kind of a life lesson. Was like just because
Speaker 2: it's good doesn't mean it always will be good.
Speaker 1: What we tell.
Speaker 2: Oh man. Just like my girlfriend at the time, Like
Speaker 2: I like, I like met this girl online that we
Speaker 2: were I was mutual friends with, and I like paid
Speaker 2: for her to come out there and live with me.
Speaker 2: And I mean I was just so I was buying
Speaker 2: her so she I didn't she didn't work, so I
Speaker 2: would just like go to work and like leave her
Speaker 2: money and we eat cigarettes and like go to work
Speaker 2: all day. I'd buy dab break, expensive dab brigs, expensive bongs, acid,
Speaker 2: you know, shoes, clothes, just like movies, just blowing it,
Speaker 2: man like, like literally just spending it. As soon as
Speaker 2: I would get it, I would pay rent and I
Speaker 2: would just spend it. But yeah, pretty much any day
Speaker 2: off I would be downtown, and that's where I met
Speaker 2: dirty kids for the first time, like travelers, like basically hippies,
Speaker 2: but people that live outside by choice and kind of
Speaker 2: just like travel around with what's in their backpack. And
Speaker 2: like I would hang out with them, drop some acid
Speaker 2: in the park, smoke some weed, and everybody seems so happy.
Speaker 2: Man Like, everybody just seems happy. And I was like,
Speaker 2: they have nothing. They got no, they don't own anything,
Speaker 2: they don't have any stuff. They don't have a house,
Speaker 2: and it just seems so happy and like running around
Speaker 2: barefoot in the grass with their dogs smoking weed. And
Speaker 2: I'd be like I saw that, and I was envious
Speaker 2: of it, because like I have to go back to
Speaker 2: my apartment. I have to I have to go do
Speaker 2: this job. I have to go shovel wood chips all day.
Speaker 2: I have to go cut trees, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I have to go do all these things. But these
Speaker 2: people are completely happy just hanging out in the grass.
Speaker 2: And basically that's where I went when I got kicked
Speaker 2: out of the apartment, didn't have the job, had all
Speaker 2: my bags around me, had my little cat. I was
Speaker 2: like what do I do? And I was like, all right,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna go down to the park and talk
Speaker 2: to those guys. And I went down there and I
Speaker 2: was like, hey, you know, I just lost my job.
Speaker 2: I just lost my apartment and I don't know what
Speaker 2: to do. And they were like, oh, dude, youd hang
Speaker 2: out with us. And you know, at the at that point,
Speaker 2: still in my mind was like, oh, if you need money,
Speaker 2: you get a job. So like I immediately like went
Speaker 2: restaurant to restaurant, store, store, Hey, I need a job. Hey,
Speaker 2: I need a job. Got a job under the table
Speaker 2: at a sushi place in downtown Denver, making cash. The
Speaker 2: guy never even asked me my name. I never filled
Speaker 2: out a job application. He was just like, oh, can
Speaker 2: you start tomorrow. And I started working there, and then
Speaker 2: I would just like I would work at the sushi
Speaker 2: place and then get on my skateboard and just skate
Speaker 2: down to the park, sleep in the park with everybody,
Speaker 2: drop acid, smoke weed. Uh. My boss eventually found out
Speaker 2: that I was homeless. I didn't tell him, and I
Speaker 2: thought I was gonna get fired. He was like, oh,
Speaker 2: why didn't you tell me you live outside, because he
Speaker 2: seen me out there one night and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I didn't want you to, you know, fire me. And
Speaker 2: he was like, oh well, And then after that he
Speaker 2: started getting me a meal every day. So every day
Speaker 2: i'd go into work, he'd let me have a meal,
Speaker 2: and he'd let me leave my backpack there. He was
Speaker 2: really cool. I felt bad when I quit that job,
Speaker 2: you know, I really, I really did. I when I
Speaker 2: when I told him I was quitting, you know, I
Speaker 2: felt I felt pretty bad. But I was like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, I was ready. I wanted to go to
Speaker 2: San Francisco. And it's kind of crazy, but you hear
Speaker 2: about San Francisco and you're like, Oh, it's like a
Speaker 2: hippie paradise. You know, that's what you would think. At
Speaker 2: least that's what I thought, you know. I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get there and it's gonna be a bunch
Speaker 2: of people like here, smoking weed, hanging out. So I
Speaker 2: quit my job and I fucking I started hitchhiking to
Speaker 2: San Francisco. And I remember, yeah, I had I didn't
Speaker 2: have a backpack. All I had was a pair of shorts, shoes,
Speaker 2: a shirt, and a bed sheet because someone stole all
Speaker 2: my stuff and I I just like looked at the
Speaker 2: map and followed the high start walking down the highway
Speaker 2: with my thumb out, and it took me less than
Speaker 2: a week to get to San Francisco from Denver. My
Speaker 2: first time. That was my first time, like, that was
Speaker 2: my first real hitchhiking trip. I had done small ones,
Speaker 2: like fifty miles, one hundred miles, but that was my
Speaker 2: first real getting your feet wet into it. It was
Speaker 2: Denver to San Francisco, and I got to San Francisco
Speaker 2: and it was not what I thought. It was cold.
Speaker 2: It was very The air is very wet, it's very damp,
Speaker 2: it's very cold. In the streets are very harsh. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of hard drugs, a lot
Speaker 2: of people with mental illness problems, and a lot of
Speaker 2: people on drugs, and just like it wasn't that safe
Speaker 2: and it wasn't that fun. So then I I was like,
Speaker 2: all right, it's cold, I'm gonna start hitchhiking south. And
Speaker 2: that's literally how it all unraveled. Like there was always
Speaker 2: another place to go to. There was it was another
Speaker 2: thing to do. Like I never like set out like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is how I'm gonna live my life. Like it
Speaker 2: was just like, oh, I'm gonna go here and do
Speaker 2: this thing. And I was like, Oh, this kind of sucks.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go here and do this thing. And so
Speaker 2: I ended up in Arizone at the gem Shows, which
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've heard about it, but the
Speaker 2: Tucson Gem Show is like the world's largest rock and
Speaker 2: mineral exhibition, and people from all over the world have
Speaker 2: all these different minerals and rocks and gemstones, and everybody's
Speaker 2: like hanging out it's a huge thing. It's it's crazy.
Speaker 2: And so I was there working at the gem show,
Speaker 2: like unloading boxes of rocks, setting up boots, because if
Speaker 2: you show up there earlier and you just walk around,
Speaker 2: you're like, hey man, you need a hand, you need
Speaker 2: a hand, and like you can get a job just
Speaker 2: on yeah, unloading rocks, setting up boots. You don't need
Speaker 2: an id, just under the tablework. And at the end
Speaker 2: of that I heard about a rainbow gathering. I had
Speaker 2: never heard. When I first heard about it, I thought
Speaker 2: it was a gay thing, and I don't have anything
Speaker 2: against gay people, but I was like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: that's probably not for me, and then I realized that
Speaker 2: what it was like it's just called rainbow gathering, but
Speaker 2: it's like meant to be what society would be like
Speaker 2: if there wasn't money or like like it kind of
Speaker 2: shows you how like okay, see they pick like a
Speaker 2: national forest. Everybody shows up and you learn how to
Speaker 2: dig a latrine and put lie in it so everybody
Speaker 2: can shit in it and not spread disease. And they
Speaker 2: show you how to get water from the river and
Speaker 2: purify the water. And you know, there's different kitchens that
Speaker 2: show up and make food and you help get firewood,
Speaker 2: and they call it leaving Babylon, so you like leave
Speaker 2: the sidewalk and you go in the wood and you're
Speaker 2: like living in like a little mini society for a
Speaker 2: little while. And then they have these gatherings all over
Speaker 2: the world, not just the United States. They have them
Speaker 2: all over the world, and I went to a lot
Speaker 2: of them and they're a lot of fun. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I was doing that for probably five years, just hitchhiking
Speaker 2: around the United States, going to different rainbow gatherings, doing
Speaker 2: different seasonal work, like oh, let's go harvest potatoes, let's
Speaker 2: go harvest sugar beets, let's go prim marijuana. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'd do jobs like that, like go to the Pacific
Speaker 2: Northwest when I knew everybody was pulling their weed plants,
Speaker 2: and you just hang out outside home depots. So like
Speaker 2: these towns where people are growing weed up in the mountains,
Speaker 2: there's only one home depot for like hundreds of miles,
Speaker 2: you know, so any weed farmer has to go to
Speaker 2: this home depot. So I would just hang out there
Speaker 2: with like some weed trimming scissors in my hand, and
Speaker 2: eventually someone will pick you up and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: how many pounds can you trim in a day? And
Speaker 2: if they like your answer, they'll take you up to
Speaker 2: the mountain, provide you with food, room and board, and
Speaker 2: you just trim weed all day. And I mean sometimes
Speaker 2: for months. You just you're just way up on this mountain,
Speaker 2: like no cell phone service, no roads anywhere, like the
Speaker 2: type of mountain where in the winter people got to
Speaker 2: use snowmobiles to get off it, and you basically just
Speaker 2: trust these farmers that they're gonna pay you. And I
Speaker 2: mean it was it was nice to get a break
Speaker 2: from living on the road, and you know, like for
Speaker 2: for at while you can just live in this little
Speaker 2: shack on a mountain and trim weed. And it was
Speaker 2: cool because I mean there'd be like twelve foot weed
Speaker 2: plants hanging from the ceiling. I'd wake up just surrounded
Speaker 2: by hanging weed. You wake up and you can smoke
Speaker 2: as much weed as you can as long as you
Speaker 2: can keep working, and I would just I would just
Speaker 2: wake up fucking there'd be like a mason jar full
Speaker 2: of oil, dab oil, a roll of fat joint with
Speaker 2: some oil on it, smoke it, and you're just covering weed.
Speaker 2: Like if the weed sticks to everything, sticks to your socks,
Speaker 2: your clothes. I would just wake up twelve foot weed
Speaker 2: plants hang from the sea and just grab some colas
Speaker 2: start trimming. Yeah, and that was like, yeah, I see
Speaker 2: different seasonal jobs Like that is basically how I stayed alive.
Speaker 1: So for those five.
Speaker 4: Years that you were doing this, did you hang on
Speaker 4: to anyone or was it really just you for five years?
Speaker 1: Like, do you have any sort of recurring people in
Speaker 1: your life over that time?
Speaker 2: I was out there for a total of twelve years.
Speaker 3: Not really.
Speaker 2: I mean the most constant thing in my life was
Speaker 2: my dog.
Speaker 1: Your dog went with you everywhere?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't have them in the beginning. I ended
Speaker 2: up getting my first dog because I was tired of
Speaker 2: getting robbed. Like sleeping was the most dangerous part of
Speaker 2: living out there is because people that don't sleep, they're
Speaker 2: just out scheming at night looking for people that are
Speaker 2: sleeping that they can take advantage of. Like sleeping was
Speaker 2: hands down the most dangerous part of living out on
Speaker 2: the road, Like, like you just get accustomed to survival,
Speaker 2: Like I would have to position my head a certain
Speaker 2: way every night when I went to bed, just to
Speaker 2: limit the ways that people could walk up on me,
Speaker 2: because you don't want someone to just be able to
Speaker 2: walk right up on your head, you know. So I
Speaker 2: would sleep like with my head to like a big
Speaker 2: wall or a rock or a big tree or like
Speaker 2: and people. It was serious, man, because you don't know
Speaker 2: if you could be sleeping and then all of a
Speaker 2: sudden someone's stealing your shoes in your backpack and like whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, So I got I got tired of waking
Speaker 2: up with no shoes, waking up with no backpack. So
Speaker 2: I got my first dog and I never got robbed
Speaker 2: in my sleep again. I made a deal with my dog.
Speaker 2: I was like, hey, you know, I'll love you. I'll
Speaker 2: give you the comfort that you need, the food, the water.
Speaker 2: You just help me and not get robbed in my
Speaker 2: sleep anymore. But I have my dog, go Ryd. He's
Speaker 2: my second. My first dog that I had on the
Speaker 2: road got stolen and it was one of the hardest
Speaker 2: things I had to go through. Yeah, I hopped my
Speaker 2: very first freight train with that dog because that's the day.
Speaker 2: I went hitchhiking for maybe five years and then I
Speaker 2: met some trainhoppers. So I was in Manitou Springs, Colorado,
Speaker 2: which is this beautiful little mountaintown and Pike's Peak National Floors.
Speaker 2: That place has natural soda water, so like kind of
Speaker 2: like the water that I have here in Oregon, it's
Speaker 2: instead over there, it's carbonated, so it's like natural soda
Speaker 2: mineral water just coming out of the ground. And there's
Speaker 2: all these fountains, and different fountains have different levels of
Speaker 2: carbonation and like minerals, so they all taste different.
Speaker 1: Did I asked real quick about So this first dog
Speaker 1: that was stolen, what kind of dog was it?
Speaker 2: She was like, uh, what people would call like a
Speaker 2: red dog like she kind of looked like coyote mixed
Speaker 2: like random desert looking dog like. She was like she
Speaker 2: was vicious because she's like a tiny little like I
Speaker 2: don't even like a brown dog with plenty years, like
Speaker 2: kind of like the dogs that you'll see like around
Speaker 2: native reservations in the south, what like in the desert areas.
Speaker 1: How did you connect with this dog? How'd you find her?
Speaker 2: Oh? I was at this truck stop and there was
Speaker 2: these other travelers there, and I walked up and there
Speaker 2: and the dog ran away from them and jumped into
Speaker 2: my arms, and I'm holding his dog I'm like, what
Speaker 2: the fuck, And the people were like, dude, that's not
Speaker 2: our dog. We rescue that dog. That dog hates everybody.
Speaker 2: And I didn't really understand what they meant by this
Speaker 2: dog hates everybody, because this dog's in my arms, and
Speaker 2: like the night we all camped together, and in the
Speaker 2: next day they're like, dude, you know you can have
Speaker 2: that dog. So I kept the dog, and then I
Speaker 2: realized what they meant by she hates. She would bite anybody,
Speaker 2: a child, an old lady, a woman, a man, anyone.
Speaker 2: And she wouldn't growl, she wouldn't bark. She would just
Speaker 2: lunge and attack them. And like like if someone was
Speaker 2: trying to hand me money, I would have to walk
Speaker 2: away from the dog and take the money. If like
Speaker 2: someone was trying to give me a fist bump or
Speaker 2: a handshake or anything, I would have to walk away
Speaker 2: from the dog. Like people like drunk people like drunk
Speaker 2: women would come out of the bars and be like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, can I pet your dog. I'd be
Speaker 2: like no, and then they would be like no, dogs
Speaker 2: love me, and then it get bit or people wouldn't ask.
Speaker 2: I'd be standing there and like turn away and someone
Speaker 2: would try to pet my dog, and I mean that
Speaker 2: was the dangerous part. She wouldn't give any warnings. She
Speaker 2: wouldn't growl, she wouldn't bark, she would just bite. So
Speaker 2: then I understood what those people meant by this dog
Speaker 2: hates everybody. Like I don't know, It was like that
Speaker 2: dog knew me. It was like like I just walked
Speaker 2: up the truck stop and it just ran and jumped
Speaker 2: into my arms. And like I didn't understand how important
Speaker 2: that was when I first met the dog, but then
Speaker 2: after being with her for so long, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: that was really special, you know, like this dog hates everything.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's so fast. I truly wonder what it must
Speaker 1: have been. Do you have any idea, any hypothesis, anything
Speaker 1: at all about what it was about you as a
Speaker 1: stranger in that moment that she connected with you over
Speaker 1: anyone else.
Speaker 2: I don't. I had never even had a dog, Like
Speaker 2: when I was a kid, my parents never got me
Speaker 2: a dog. I had only ever had cats. I have
Speaker 2: literally no It was like the dog knew me. It
Speaker 2: was like I just walked up and it was like
Speaker 2: it knew me, and it just ran to me and
Speaker 2: just jumped in my arms and like, and then they
Speaker 2: we were camping, and I remember like laying there in
Speaker 2: my camp just thinking about that dog. I'm like, message,
Speaker 2: an awesome dog. She's so cool. And then the next
Speaker 2: morning they were like, man, we thought about it, and
Speaker 2: we think you should have this dog because they had
Speaker 2: their own dogs, and that was like it was like
Speaker 2: a dog that they were just like helping out because
Speaker 2: they needed them at that moment. And yeah, and I
Speaker 2: hitchhiked around with her and then yeah, like I said,
Speaker 2: we were in Manitu Springs and I was living in
Speaker 2: a cave in the mountains. There's like and there was
Speaker 2: like a stream in front of the cave, and I
Speaker 2: would wash my clothes in there. If I'd take my clothes,
Speaker 2: put them in the river, put the rocks on them,
Speaker 2: and he just let the river be like a washing
Speaker 2: machine and wash my clothes. And the cave was like
Speaker 2: made of clay and it went really deep, so it
Speaker 2: was nice and cool in the summer. And there'd be
Speaker 2: like a dozen of us in there eating mesculine, eating acid,
Speaker 2: eating mushrooms, just living in this cave. And then we'd
Speaker 2: go out at night into the town and like play
Speaker 2: music and get leftovers, bring the food back to the cave,
Speaker 2: share it with everybody. But I ended up meeting some
Speaker 2: train hoppers and they came there staying in the cave
Speaker 2: and we had a fire and we're all sitting around
Speaker 2: the fire and they're telling me all these stories about
Speaker 2: Ryan trains and I was like hanging on every word,
Speaker 2: like it sounded like the ultimate adventure, you know, like
Speaker 2: it was insane. Like I was like wow. And then
Speaker 2: I hung out with them for a couple of days
Speaker 2: and then they were going to leave, and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: where are you guys going And they're like, oh, we're
Speaker 2: going to Pleblu, Colorado to hop out of here. And
Speaker 2: then and then they were like, do you want to
Speaker 2: come with us? And me, I was like yes. And
Speaker 2: so many times in my life I'm glad I took
Speaker 2: opportunities like this where it's just like it changed and
Speaker 2: it changed the entire trajectory of my life. Just saying yes.
Speaker 2: It was like taking a chance, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: even if it seems crazy, even if everyone's telling you
Speaker 2: not to, just taking that chance because you never know
Speaker 2: how what doors it's going to open. And yeah, hopping
Speaker 2: my first train was one of the most terrifying things
Speaker 2: I've ever done. It was very scary. Yes, uh, he
Speaker 2: has a guy. His name was Scruffle up Agains, and
Speaker 2: then the lady, her name was Mama Red. And they
Speaker 2: brought me on my first train. Why it's so scary,
Speaker 2: It was scary. Okay. So there was like eight of
Speaker 2: us with just as many dogs. Okay, in the nighttime.
Speaker 2: We've been waiting in this train yard for days. We're
Speaker 2: trying to go east. And so Scruffy had told me,
Speaker 2: he said, hey, the railroad police, the railroad workers, the
Speaker 2: bull they're like a t rex. If you don't move,
Speaker 2: they won't see you. That's what he told me. He said,
Speaker 2: don't move. If you don't move, they're not gonna see you.
Speaker 2: And like everybody wore like neutral colors, you know, like
Speaker 2: earth tones, browns, grays, dark greens. Everybody had like a
Speaker 2: bandana over their face and a hood pulled up and
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like it was serious. We're
Speaker 2: all hiding in the shadows. Well, the train pulls up
Speaker 2: and it's an old junk train, like a grain train
Speaker 2: that they filled with grains, and you know, they got
Speaker 2: oil tankers, maybe a couple of box cars. Now we
Speaker 2: all climb on this train and we're laying there on
Speaker 2: the grainer porch. It's hard to describe. It's like they
Speaker 2: got these cars that they filled with good. They opened
Speaker 2: the top and fill them with grain. But then at
Speaker 2: the bottom there's like a ladder in some there's a
Speaker 2: little platform right there you can lay on. And so
Speaker 2: we're laying there. And as I'm laying there waiting for
Speaker 2: the train to leave, I got my dog, I got
Speaker 2: my backpack on. I'm holding my dog to my chest,
Speaker 2: I got my bandan over my face, I got my
Speaker 2: hood pulled up. And I'm laying there and I hear
Speaker 2: the rocks crunching, because there's all these rocks along the
Speaker 2: railroad tracks. And I hear him crunching. Someone's walking towards me,
Speaker 2: and I look down the side of the train and
Speaker 2: I see a railroad worker coming down with a lantern.
Speaker 2: He's shining his light at each of the grainer porches,
Speaker 2: walking closer and closer and closer. And I walked up
Speaker 2: the guy next to me. I was like, dude, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna get out of here. Because on the other side
Speaker 2: of the train there was like an opening in the
Speaker 2: fence and there was a big abandoned building and I
Speaker 2: was like, I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna go.
Speaker 2: And he said, no, remember what Scruffy told you. If
Speaker 2: you don't move, they won't see you. And I was like, dude,
Speaker 2: that's crazy, Like just lay down. So I'm laying there.
Speaker 2: My heart's racing. I'm holding my dog and the crunching
Speaker 2: is getting left and the louder and the udder and
Speaker 2: I'm laying there and I'm eye level to this guy.
Speaker 2: He shines the light right on me. He's looking me
Speaker 2: dead in my eyes. And then he just puts the
Speaker 2: light down and just keeps walking. My heart felt like
Speaker 2: it was gonna come out of my mouth, like it
Speaker 2: was like and I'm just holding my dog as tight
Speaker 2: as I can, and then the train shakes. We go backwards,
Speaker 2: and then it screeches, and then we start moving and
Speaker 2: then we start moving faster, and the wind's blowing and
Speaker 2: remem I was just I'm holding the railing and I'm
Speaker 2: like sticking my head out and the wind's blowing and
Speaker 2: the brake dust. You can smell the brake dust on
Speaker 2: the train, and like every time it goes around a curve,
Speaker 2: he like screeches and like, oh man, that first train
Speaker 2: ride was just like exhilarating. I was. As soon as
Speaker 2: I did, I was like, I am gonna do more
Speaker 2: of this. And it was kind of crazy because the
Speaker 2: train didn't go east. It went back to Denver, and
Speaker 2: I had tried so hard to leave Denver, like I
Speaker 2: it took me forever to get to Manitu Springs, and
Speaker 2: I just ended up all the way back in Denver.
Speaker 2: But those guys, they drank too much alcohol for me,
Speaker 2: so they like, you know, they it was funny. Everybody
Speaker 2: has like a funny name out there, and they were
Speaker 2: calling me. My name is Trip out there, and they
Speaker 2: would call me Trip to Shwilly because like a swilly
Speaker 2: kid is someone that drinks a lot of alcohol. And
Speaker 2: I didn't drink any alcohol, so they gave me the
Speaker 2: name Trip the Swilly, which was funny because I just
Speaker 2: didn't drink at all and everyone drank a lot of booze.
Speaker 2: So I like left and like the first few trains
Speaker 2: I hopped, I just like I was terrified of doing
Speaker 2: it during the daytime, so I'd only do it at night.
Speaker 2: And I didn't even know which way it was going,
Speaker 2: you know, like that was a beautiful time in life,
Speaker 2: like not having anywhere to go, You're just living, You're
Speaker 2: just going to go, you know what. Like I would
Speaker 2: just get on the train just because I know it's leaving.
Speaker 2: And it took me years to like figure out which
Speaker 2: ones are going, what way, why they're going that way?
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, all in all, I was out there
Speaker 2: for twelve years.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I rode trains every corner of the United States.
Speaker 2: I rode freight all throughout, all through the United States
Speaker 2: and Canada. I eventually did Canada because I was like bored.
Speaker 2: It was kind of like riding a taxi, Like it
Speaker 2: got so predictable. I just knew. I knew where the
Speaker 2: train was stop, I knew where it was going to go.
Speaker 2: I knew what to expect. I knew when to hide,
Speaker 2: I knew when not to hide. I knew when to run.
Speaker 2: That's the thing you got to when you're riding freight.
Speaker 2: You gotta know when to run and when to hide.
Speaker 2: And it just got blady, got mundane to me. It
Speaker 2: was like I know what to expect. This was after
Speaker 2: years and years. So then me and my current dog,
Speaker 2: my dog O'Ryan, where I still have him. He's he's
Speaker 2: eleven years old now. But me and him rode into Canada,
Speaker 2: no idea, no passport, and we started Vermont, rode into Montreal,
Speaker 2: and then we rode all the way to Vancouver and
Speaker 2: then walked over the border. And it's one it's one
Speaker 2: of my greatest achieved Honestly, I think it's my best
Speaker 2: adventure ever, you know, because everybody told me not to
Speaker 2: do it. They're like, dude, don't do it. You're gonna
Speaker 2: get deported. Don't do that. It's insane. And I was like,
Speaker 2: I gotta do it. And I pretty much asked anybody
Speaker 2: I could, any trainhoper I met before I went up there,
Speaker 2: I was like, hey, have you ever been to Canada?
Speaker 2: Do you know anybody that's been to Canada? You know,
Speaker 2: I wanted to know, how'd you get up there? How
Speaker 2: long did you stay up there? Did you get deported?
Speaker 2: Why'd you get deported? How'd you get caught? You know.
Speaker 2: I just talked to anybody I met, you know, and
Speaker 2: I just put all the information together and I learned
Speaker 2: a lot, you know. I learned, you know, Canada really
Speaker 2: doesn't like public drinking. So a lot of these kids
Speaker 2: that were riding trains up there. They were getting arrested
Speaker 2: and deported because they were like publicly intoxicated.
Speaker 1: But where would they even send you when you got deported.
Speaker 2: I mean they would hold Like I didn't get deported,
Speaker 2: but they I mean they would hold you in jail
Speaker 2: and then send you back to America. I'm not sure
Speaker 2: where exactly, but maybe just right over the border. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure exactly, but I know that they Yeah, they
Speaker 2: would just hold you and then bring you back. And
Speaker 2: that's like the ultimate failure. You fail, you know, I
Speaker 2: wanted My goal was yeah, Montreal to Vancouver, and I
Speaker 2: did it in three trains, and I mean I had to.
Speaker 2: I ran from the Mounties three times, lied to them
Speaker 2: and got out of it once. One other time. I
Speaker 2: was up there for like two months. I met some
Speaker 2: amazing people, dude people up there. But you hear that
Speaker 2: Cano Canadians are stereotypically nice. They fucking work. Like I met,
Speaker 2: I met some like I'd just be walking and people
Speaker 2: would just like put money out the window. They'd just
Speaker 2: be like, here, man, I'm just walking down this show.
Speaker 2: I'm like, man, I must look rough, I must look
Speaker 2: like I need it. Fucking yeah, I met some amazing people.
Speaker 2: I met people that that's the thing about living out there,
Speaker 2: man with no money and just like you just got
Speaker 2: what's on your back. The people that hang out with
Speaker 2: you and the people that stopped to talk to you,
Speaker 2: you know that it's because they actually want to talk
Speaker 2: to you and you they think you're a cool person.
Speaker 2: It's not because you've got something they needs, not because
Speaker 2: you've got coke at a party. It's not because you
Speaker 2: got a nice car. It's not because you got a
Speaker 2: nice job. It's not because they think that you you're
Speaker 2: well loved. You know. Like I felt like I've met
Speaker 2: a lot more down to earth and real people because
Speaker 2: it put me in those situations to meet those people.
Speaker 2: Because I mean, dude, for so long, I was the
Speaker 2: kind of person that you if someone saw me, they
Speaker 2: usually didn't look at me twice. They weren't even look
Speaker 2: at me once. So if someone stopped and got on
Speaker 2: my level to talk to me, a lot of times
Speaker 2: they'd be like, dude, you're fucking cool as hell. They're like,
Speaker 2: you're an actual person, you know. And that's the thing
Speaker 2: is like it's easy to look out your car window
Speaker 2: and see someone on the streets and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I know what their situation is. Oh, they could have
Speaker 2: done X, Y and Z to get out of this.
Speaker 2: They could, you know, but you don't know what they're
Speaker 2: going through. You don't know what kind of childhood trauma
Speaker 2: they got. You don't know how hard it is to
Speaker 2: get a Social Security card when you've been chronically homeless
Speaker 2: for over a decade. You know, there's a lot. I
Speaker 2: just wish people had more compassion, and I wish that
Speaker 2: they could see that they're you know, the people living
Speaker 2: outside aren't your enemy. Those are your neighbors. You know,
Speaker 2: those are your neighbors. Like we're all, You're not any
Speaker 2: better than anyone just because you have something and they don't.
Speaker 1: So well, I want to get into this. So you
Speaker 1: were doing this for twelve years from yes, like from
Speaker 1: about sixteen to twenty eight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now you have.
Speaker 1: A kid, and it sounds like you got a you know,
Speaker 1: you got a car, and you are like, I.
Speaker 2: Still haven't got a That's the crazy thing is I'm yeah,
Speaker 2: I've never had a driver's license, and I'm kind of I.
Speaker 1: Guess, sorry, I guess I I only I only assumed
Speaker 1: that because I thought you were driving to this uh,
Speaker 1: spring when we first started talking with THEE.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my girlfriend does the drive. I mean, I have
Speaker 2: a bike, and I bike, but we live in a
Speaker 2: small town where I can pretty much, you know. I
Speaker 2: bike to work, I bike to the food bank. I bike.
Speaker 2: I bike a lot, and I don't know cars giving
Speaker 2: me a lot of anxiety and I and I never
Speaker 2: learned how to drive, and I just don't really have
Speaker 2: an interest in doing it. And my life's not really
Speaker 2: you know, like I get around, I don't really. I
Speaker 2: don't know a lot of people, you know, their cars,
Speaker 2: like their personality and like their manness and like their
Speaker 2: masculine you know what I mean. But I don't. I
Speaker 2: don't attach that to to yeah, a big piece of machinery.
Speaker 1: So well, what I was gonna say is, Okay, so
Speaker 1: when you were twenty eight, like, uh, how'd you meet
Speaker 1: uh the person you're with now? And then how do
Speaker 1: you have a kid? And you see it, is it
Speaker 1: accurate to say that you're less nomadic than you were
Speaker 1: at that time?
Speaker 2: Now? Yeah? Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: How do you know kind of I want to hear
Speaker 1: about that transition.
Speaker 2: Oh it's kind of funny. I met my girlfriend on
Speaker 2: Instagram and I like followed one of her friends on Instagram,
Speaker 2: and then I seen her in a picture and I
Speaker 2: was like, man, she's cute, like little, dark haired, dready girl.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I just messaged her and I
Speaker 2: was I didn't even say anything. I just sent her
Speaker 2: a picture of me a cardboard sign that said blah
Speaker 2: blah bump stuff, and I just sent it to her.
Speaker 2: And then we started talking and I asked her. I
Speaker 2: was like, hey, you ever ride trains? And that was
Speaker 2: like my pickup line, was like, hey, you ever ride freight?
Speaker 2: And she had only ever hitchhiked, and so we met
Speaker 2: up to ride trains. And when we were living inside
Speaker 2: of a bridge, like uh like literally inside of it,
Speaker 2: Like a lot of the infrastructure around the city is
Speaker 2: built hollow to make it cheaper. And we had found
Speaker 2: a little door that led inside of a bridge, and
Speaker 2: I got my own walk and replaced it, and we
Speaker 2: were just living in there, and she got pregnant, and
Speaker 2: you know, she asked me if I would go back
Speaker 2: home to her home in Ohio and be a dad,
Speaker 2: and I at the time, I was, you know, I
Speaker 2: was like, no, I'm gonna ride trains. I'm gonna keep
Speaker 2: riding trains, Like, you're crazy to think that we can
Speaker 2: be parents. I don't even have I was like, how
Speaker 2: could I That was the main thing in my head,
Speaker 2: was like, how could I be a dad if I
Speaker 2: don't even know what it's like to be to have
Speaker 2: a good dad. You know, my parents were terrible little mods.
Speaker 2: I didn't know, Like I still have problems with my
Speaker 2: own dealing with my own childhood. How could I be
Speaker 2: a dad? You know? Those are all the things that
Speaker 2: were running I'm like, we live in a wall, we
Speaker 2: eat garbage, I shower once a month. I'm like, you
Speaker 2: cannot be parents, you know what I mean? And those, yeah,
Speaker 2: those are the kinds of things that were running through
Speaker 2: my head. And so I told her no, I said,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna stay. I'm gonna keep Ryan trains. So she
Speaker 2: went to the Greyhound and she got a Greyhound. She
Speaker 2: went home to Ohio, and then a while later she
Speaker 2: told me, hey, I'm gonna have the baby. The baby
Speaker 2: was born December third, when I rode trains in the
Speaker 2: middle of winter to Ohio and I saw the baby
Speaker 2: being born. I held my daughter and then I left.
Speaker 2: And you know a lot of people say they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: when you hold your kid for the first time, something changes,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It didn't change for me
Speaker 2: right away, you know. It wasn't like this magic thing like,
Speaker 2: oh you see the kid, all of a sudden, You're
Speaker 2: gonna make it work. And I feel like it would
Speaker 2: have been selfish of me to try to make it
Speaker 2: work because I knew I wasn't ready, Like I knew.
Speaker 2: I knew if I stay, I'm gonna go. And I
Speaker 2: didn't want to do that to them, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. I felt like it was better to be
Speaker 2: away than to be there just to rip it all away,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. So so I kept Bryan trains,
Speaker 2: kept traveling, and I probably would still be out there
Speaker 2: if it wasn't for some really nice people that I
Speaker 2: met off Reddit, of all places. But yeah, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: there was this. I used to post a lot on Reddit.
Speaker 2: I don't anymore, but I used to post a lot
Speaker 2: on a lot on there about me riding trains and stuff,
Speaker 2: and people would follow my adventures and donate money to
Speaker 2: me because I'd be you know, And there's this person
Speaker 2: who lived in Sacramento, and it was like pretty much
Speaker 2: every week she'd send me like fifty to one hundred dollars,
Speaker 2: Like it was crazy. I was like, this is insane.
Speaker 2: And then I'm in Oregon picking mushrooms around Thanksgiving and
Speaker 2: she messages me and she's like, hey, do you want
Speaker 2: to come to Thanksgiving dinner? And I sat there and
Speaker 2: thought about it. I was like, I literally could not
Speaker 2: remember the last time anybody had invited me to a
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving dinner, Like it had been years and years and
Speaker 2: years and years. Like every holiday for me was just
Speaker 2: a Wednesday, it was just a Tuesday. It was Oh,
Speaker 2: I'm behind this gas station, you know, And it meant
Speaker 2: a lot that they invited me. So I went down there.
Speaker 2: I got on the train, rode down the Sacramento from
Speaker 2: Portland and I got there and I was only supposed
Speaker 2: to be there for a day or two. These people
Speaker 2: had a nice house, tons of money, kids, just regular
Speaker 2: people and they liked me so much, and I liked
Speaker 2: them that they were like, you know, she asked me,
Speaker 2: she said, you know, if you can have anything, what
Speaker 2: do you need right now? And like she asked me,
Speaker 2: like what do you need? And I told her I
Speaker 2: was like, I'm tired, you know, I'm tired. I was
Speaker 2: like I need to rest. I need to just I
Speaker 2: need to just relax and rest. And so they literally
Speaker 2: sold their house and bought a bigger house that had
Speaker 2: an extra bedroom, and I stayed with them for a
Speaker 2: couple of years and learned how to live inside again.
Speaker 2: It was hard because I would I would pack all
Speaker 2: my stuff and leave it and I'd go ride trains
Speaker 2: and then I'd just like feel like I was stuck
Speaker 2: in this revolving door. You know. I was like, there's
Speaker 2: nothing out here from me. I've already done it, I've
Speaker 2: already seen it. And I would end up going back
Speaker 2: and staying with them, and that kind of went on
Speaker 2: for a couple of years, just going back, leaving, going back. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, I had to I had to learn how
Speaker 2: to be stagnant. I had to learn how to because
Speaker 2: that's the thing is when you're when you're go, go go.
Speaker 2: Because I would never stay anywhere more than three days.
Speaker 2: Usually anytime anything got bad, you just go. And you
Speaker 2: when you stop, everything you were going from catches up
Speaker 2: to you. You think you have to deal with stuff,
Speaker 2: you know. So like if I didn't have that time
Speaker 2: to be in that safe space with them, I don't
Speaker 2: know if I could have been to Dad and been
Speaker 2: here with my family, because you know, I would have
Speaker 2: just left. If I had gone there, I wouldn't have
Speaker 2: been ready and I would have just left. So they
Speaker 2: gave me, like the no judgmental, unconditional love. I had
Speaker 2: never known unconditional love. They gave me unconditional love like
Speaker 2: you know, you deserve love. That was a lot of things.
Speaker 2: Was my self worth, you know, I felt like I
Speaker 2: deserved to live on the streets. I felt like I
Speaker 2: deserved to be on the sidewalk. I felt like I
Speaker 2: deserved to be cold. I felt like, you know, like
Speaker 2: my self worth was so little, you know, like I
Speaker 2: just I thought, that's always my life was always supposed
Speaker 2: to be. And anyway, I had this room I had.
Speaker 2: They paid for my food like weed, They paid for
Speaker 2: everything is Yeah, this is.
Speaker 1: Just a random family that you met on Reddit from
Speaker 1: from sharing adventures on one.
Speaker 2: They showed me more love than my own family ever had. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they showed they showed me compassion, They showed me that
Speaker 2: I could love myself like and it just blowed my
Speaker 2: mind like my own family. Because that's why I struggled
Speaker 2: with so long. Was like, you know, I don't deserve love.
Speaker 2: My own family could love me. My own family doesn't
Speaker 2: know if I'm alive or dead, you know, and like
Speaker 2: how could anyone else, hm, you know, the so I
Speaker 2: had to deal with that. But yeah, they gave me
Speaker 2: the space to just work everything out, work through the drama.
Speaker 2: It gave me the space to just be myself, you know.
Speaker 2: And and I still but I got through it, and
Speaker 2: I still wasn't happy. I felt like something was missing,
Speaker 2: Like I was sitting there sun shining, a beautiful house,
Speaker 2: fridge full of food, I mean, and I still wasn't happy,
Speaker 2: like there was something there was something missing in my life.
Speaker 2: And I realized, you know, ten years are gonna go
Speaker 2: buy it quick. My kid's gonna grow up, not gonna
Speaker 2: know me, not gonna want to know me. You know.
Speaker 2: The time's gonna go by fast. And so yeah, me
Speaker 2: and their mom reconnected, and so he asked me if
Speaker 2: I wanted to come see them, And I thought that
Speaker 2: I was only gonna visit, like I didn't think that
Speaker 2: it was gonna be a whole thing. And so I
Speaker 2: I went to one last music festival I went to
Speaker 2: Hardly Strictly in San Francisco. It's one of the only
Speaker 2: things I'll go. I used to go to San Francisco's
Speaker 2: four was there's an annual free bluegrass show and Golden
Speaker 2: Gate Park called Hardly Strictly, and it's it's like three
Speaker 2: days of live music. They got all the live stages
Speaker 2: and food and like it's a really chill time. They
Speaker 2: clean out Golden Gate Park and then it's just like
Speaker 2: a bluegrass show. It's been free forever, like since they've
Speaker 2: been having it. It's awesome. And I went there, had
Speaker 2: a great time, went to the day, hopped out and
Speaker 2: I rode trains from basically Oakland to Florida, and then
Speaker 2: I got on a bus from Florida up to North
Speaker 2: Carolina where they were staying in Section eight housing and
Speaker 2: I mean, man, they were they were like living in
Speaker 2: the projects. They were like living off government vouchers and
Speaker 2: like this giant Honeycomb apartment complex. My kid was running around.
Speaker 2: There's I've never seen a cockroach infestations so bad. My
Speaker 2: kid's running around just like catching cockroaches, you know. And
Speaker 2: I'm there and I'm like, you know, I couldn't leave.
Speaker 2: Like I thought. I was just going there to see
Speaker 2: them and the visit. But once I got out there,
Speaker 2: like I'm looking at my daughter and she's looking at me,
Speaker 2: and it was like I was looking at myself, and
Speaker 2: I couldn't just leave, you know, like I couldn't just
Speaker 2: leave them to live like that. And I stayed there
Speaker 2: for a year. Yeah. Now we live in Oregon and
Speaker 2: we live we live in like a duplex, so it's
Speaker 2: not like a giant apartment. We have like a shared backyard.
Speaker 2: We live less than a mile from the beach. I
Speaker 2: live like right on the beach, you know. I work
Speaker 2: at a resort as a housekeeper. And that was the
Speaker 2: hard thing, is you know, living that long without having
Speaker 2: a job or like being a part of society, and
Speaker 2: like that's probably some of the hardest parts. It's just yeah,
Speaker 2: like and I got a problem with authority, so having
Speaker 2: people telling me what to do, and just like it's
Speaker 2: hard working for money. When i'd be you know, like
Speaker 2: when you're on When I would live on the road,
Speaker 2: people would see me and they'd be like, oh, you're
Speaker 2: a road warrior. You're traveling. Like a lot of people
Speaker 2: didn't see me like a regular homeless person per se.
Speaker 2: You know, they would be like, oh, you're the traveler,
Speaker 2: you know, So they'd want to help me out because
Speaker 2: I'm leaving. So it's hard sometimes when it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: people used to just throw money in food at me,
Speaker 2: but now I fucking scrub toilet's first food and money.
Speaker 2: But but it's worth it, man, It's word. That's all
Speaker 2: I got to keep telling myself is that it's worth it.
Speaker 2: Because you know, when I was out there on the
Speaker 2: road one time, this older guy told me, he said,
Speaker 2: you know, it's their good adventure, but it's not a
Speaker 2: good life. And I laughed in his face and I said,
Speaker 2: you're an idiot, old man, you don't know what you're
Speaker 2: talking talking about. And then the older I got, the
Speaker 2: more I realized he was right, Like it's it's not
Speaker 2: sustainable to live like that. Like I think everyone should,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe hitch like a thousand miles. Maybe you know,
Speaker 2: like maybe go maybe you could just take a break
Speaker 2: and just like rely on yourself and go have an adventure.
Speaker 2: But I don't think it's a good it's not a
Speaker 2: good life. And yeah, it took some grown up to
Speaker 2: kind of come to those towns, you know, m it's
Speaker 2: a good life, yeah man, yeah, yeah, And almost everybody
Speaker 2: that I knew is dead, like from alcoholism or fetanyl,
Speaker 2: or they're in prison, or they got cut in half
Speaker 2: by a train. Like there was a lot like a
Speaker 2: lot of people that I knew would drink a lot
Speaker 2: of alcohol, do heroin and go hop and then get
Speaker 2: their arm cut off, get their leg cut off, get
Speaker 2: cut in half, get paralyzed, like yeah, I got yeah.
Speaker 2: And the crazy thing is like I knew that I
Speaker 2: could die any moment out there, but I didn't really
Speaker 2: have I was just living to live. I didn't really
Speaker 2: like think about five years in the future or ten
Speaker 2: years in the future. It was just day to day,
Speaker 2: like what do I need today? What does my dog
Speaker 2: need today? You know, like but now and now I worry.
Speaker 2: But now I sit here and I think about ten
Speaker 2: years from now, I think about five years from now.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's a lot different. And yeah, the other
Speaker 2: day I saw some train hoppers here just like hang
Speaker 2: I was. I got off work, went to bike home
Speaker 2: and I seen I just start crying, and I was like,
Speaker 2: can I just talk cold you guys, because like they
Speaker 2: got up there, liked you, gonna give you a hug,
Speaker 2: and you're just like the random you was just hugging
Speaker 2: me and I'm like, like, man, I wish I could
Speaker 2: be still just sitting here with my dog, but at
Speaker 2: the same time, like I know that I have to
Speaker 2: be here in that part of my life's over. M
Speaker 2: hmmmm mm hmm. Yeah, man, I've wanted to talk to
Speaker 2: you for a long time.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you did. Oh man, oh man, hm
Speaker 1: hmmm mm hmmm. So you've been with your family for
Speaker 1: a year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's been about a year.
Speaker 1: And hm hmm. How are you feeling like when you so,
Speaker 1: you say you haven't Uh, you're kind of new to
Speaker 1: thinking about the future. And when you are thinking about
Speaker 1: the future, what are your feelings about it? Are you excited?
Speaker 1: Are you nervous? Are you you know? How do you
Speaker 1: How do you feel when you think about the future.
Speaker 2: I'm excited because there's you know, like I used to
Speaker 2: be really suicidal, you know. I used to I just
Speaker 2: want to die, and now I just want to live.
Speaker 2: And I wish that I could go and tell myself
Speaker 2: in the past, like, hey, it's not always going to
Speaker 2: be like this. It's going to get better, you know,
Speaker 2: because it does. And it's hard when you're in it
Speaker 2: to see that. But I worry man, I worry because
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want my.
Speaker 2: I work so hard, and I just want my daughter
Speaker 2: to like do good in life. And I don't want
Speaker 2: her to work as hard as I do, and like
Speaker 2: I wanted life to be as hard as mine is,
Speaker 2: and like I just worry that no matter how hard
Speaker 2: I try, that it's just like genetic where because we're poor,
Speaker 2: they're like, she's not gonna have a good chance in life,
Speaker 2: you know, And I know I can't think like that,
Speaker 2: but like, you.
Speaker 1: Know, well, ok, well bro, I mean we'll think about
Speaker 1: it like this, man, I mean, you know, well, well,
Speaker 1: I have a few things I want to say, but
Speaker 1: I want to have you. Have you seen your parents
Speaker 1: since you were sixteen? Have you talked to them at all?
Speaker 2: I went, yeah. They lived in North Carolina. And when
Speaker 2: I went to see my my daughter and my girlfriend,
Speaker 2: I just showed up. I didn't tell them I was
Speaker 2: coming because I had no contact with him, and I
Speaker 2: just showed up. And I confronted my dad with a
Speaker 2: lot of things. And I just really don't like the
Speaker 2: answer that he had for me, because I was, you know,
Speaker 2: I was like, dude, I was basically like, why were
Speaker 2: you so hard on me? Like, you know, like why
Speaker 2: did you just throw me around? Why did you scream
Speaker 2: at me? Why why were you sent me? Like? Well,
Speaker 2: and he's all he had to say was that his
Speaker 2: dad was an alcoholic and his dad was meaning him.
Speaker 2: He was like, that's not good enough because my dad
Speaker 2: was an alcoholic. My dad beat the shit out of me,
Speaker 2: and I don't do that to my kid, you know.
Speaker 2: So I just felt like it just wasn't good enough,
Speaker 2: like and I told him, I don't forgive you, like
Speaker 2: that's not but that's not good enough. That's not enough.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: I thought I would have closure, but it's just like
Speaker 2: you know, and I would tell him things like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, this traumatic thing that happened in my childhood
Speaker 2: still affects me today. And I would tell him about it,
Speaker 2: and then he'd just say, oh, I don't remember that,
Speaker 2: Oh that didn't happen, and what do you mean it
Speaker 2: did happen? Like this, this is something that shaved my
Speaker 2: whole life and you're telling me it didn't happen. And
Speaker 2: you know, they're really really really like ultra evangelical Christians,
Speaker 2: So like all he ever says is, Oh, that's the devil.
Speaker 2: That's the devil in your head telling you things. Anything
Speaker 2: good that happens, oh that was God. Anything bad that happens,
Speaker 2: Oh that's the devil. That's the devil putting lines in
Speaker 2: your head to trick you. And it's like the ultimate
Speaker 2: you gotta gaslight me with some fucking demons and shit,
Speaker 2: you know. So it was just they basically acted like
Speaker 2: I died, Like they had all these pictures of me
Speaker 2: from when I was a kid, and just like they've
Speaker 2: just always been waiting, like the product the story of
Speaker 2: the Prodigal Sun, you know, like waiting for the son
Speaker 2: to just like come back. And my dad told me,
Speaker 2: you know, like he kept setting like timelines. Okay, by
Speaker 2: the time he's twenty, he'll come back and he'll have
Speaker 2: his share, he'll he'll have his fellow sin out there
Speaker 2: in the world and he'll just come back. Oh nope,
Speaker 2: okay by twenty two, he'll oh by twenty five. And
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I've always been here. But I mean,
Speaker 2: like who I am is who I am. They just
Speaker 2: don't accept me for who I am. And it's okay
Speaker 2: to cut off your family, you know, that's what is.
Speaker 2: It's hard, but sometimes your family is just like it's
Speaker 2: better to be away from them and it's better to
Speaker 2: not talk to them, and it's hard, you know. Like
Speaker 2: like the other day, I was biking home from work
Speaker 2: and I saw this guy my age in a driveway
Speaker 2: with an older guy that looked like his dad, and
Speaker 2: they're sitting shooting some hoops, and I just I just
Speaker 2: think about I'm like, what would it be like, you know,
Speaker 2: to just build a thing out with my dad and
Speaker 2: you just like talk to him just like normal people.
Speaker 2: That's all I ever wanted. They just wanted to be
Speaker 2: a normal person having life.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, well let me let me, let me let
Speaker 1: me I mean, well, let me tell you something, man.
Speaker 1: This is just from my vantage point here is like
Speaker 1: I can tell how uh, I can tell how deeply
Speaker 1: you you really really really care about your daughter, uh
Speaker 1: not having had it as as rough as you and
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm really really sorry that you had to
Speaker 1: you had it this rough. But I'll say that the
Speaker 1: good news is is that I know that you're like
Speaker 1: really anxious and worried about your daughter having a nice
Speaker 1: life and not having to have dealt with the things
Speaker 1: that you had to tear with but you're in a
Speaker 1: really like great position where like I mean, bro, like
Speaker 1: you you're fucking there, you know, like you're fucking there,
Speaker 1: you know, and whether or not regardless of of of
Speaker 1: whatever material resources you you you do or don't have,
Speaker 1: or your daughter, like you're you're sucking there. Man, You're
Speaker 1: there and you care and you love her, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's that's it, right, So I think that like
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't think you have to worry about
Speaker 1: whether or not your daughter is gonna feel like you
Speaker 1: were there for her and and and it's and it's nice, man,
Speaker 1: it's it's like, it fucking sucks ship that your your
Speaker 1: dad came back to you with like, oh well my
Speaker 1: dad was like this and his dad was like that.
Speaker 1: I'm sure his fucking dad was. And I'm sure you're
Speaker 1: a part of a fucking long cycle of like you know,
Speaker 1: absentinis and it's like it's fucking sucks shit. And I
Speaker 1: I really I'm sorry. I feel your pain that you
Speaker 1: are a part of that cycle. But you have this
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna say opportunity because it's it's something
Speaker 1: you're doing. It's not even an opportunity. It's just it's
Speaker 1: it's your life, you know, it's it's it's it's embodied
Speaker 1: and expressed by the decisions that you've made to be
Speaker 1: there with your kid where you're doing this really tremendously powerful, beautiful,
Speaker 1: amazing thing, where you're breaking the cycle because you're fucking
Speaker 1: there for your daughter. You know, you got you get
Speaker 1: in the car and you're going to the spring and
Speaker 1: you're filling up water, you know, like you're fucking there,
Speaker 1: you know. So again, I'm I'm really I'm really sorry
Speaker 1: that you, like I can feel that you feel a
Speaker 1: lot of pain at being part of the cycle. But uh, brother,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm very very proud of you and very I
Speaker 1: deeply deeply commend you for breaking the cycle and being
Speaker 1: there for your daughter and giving a ship and going
Speaker 1: back and you know and being here. And I and
Speaker 1: I hope that you know, I know from what you've
Speaker 1: expressed that you've had a lot of you know, self image,
Speaker 1: uh problems, and I and I really hope and I really,
Speaker 1: uh I want you to understand that, like, bro, you're
Speaker 1: like you're you're beautiful, you know, like it's it's a
Speaker 1: beautiful thing that you're you're. I I don't even want
Speaker 1: to say doing. It's like you're it's like you're living it.
Speaker 1: Uh And and I hope you feel good. I hope
Speaker 1: that makes you feel good. I hope that makes you,
Speaker 1: uh sleep easy at night when when you're when you're
Speaker 1: in the house with your family, with your daughter, that
Speaker 1: you're you're there and uh I and life gets hard
Speaker 1: and you sometimes you try to do shit and it
Speaker 1: doesn't always work, but like you're trying, you know, you're.
Speaker 2: Not just like.
Speaker 1: Doing what your dad did, like your your dad came
Speaker 1: back to you man with it, with the yeah, with
Speaker 1: the bullshit excuse of like, well my dad was like
Speaker 1: this and that that that that fucked you up and
Speaker 1: you and you know you could have easily done that
Speaker 1: to your daughter, but you didn't because you're because you're
Speaker 1: because you're a fucking because you're a great guy. So
Speaker 1: I I uh, I hope I hope you recognize that
Speaker 1: about yourself and and that you feel that and you
Speaker 1: understand that, and you let that be a thing that
Speaker 1: lets you live your life a little bit lighter and
Speaker 1: a little bit less anxious and heavy. That you understand
Speaker 1: that you're you're doing all the right stuff and that you,
Speaker 1: and you and you and you don't don't beat yourself
Speaker 1: up if everything doesn't go fucking perfectly, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, trouble is I think when when things are going
Speaker 2: really good, I'm just always worried that they're about to
Speaker 2: fall apart. And I think, I think that's just that's
Speaker 2: something I got to work through, you know. I'm always
Speaker 2: like like like when things are good, I'm like, oh no,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm like, oh no, what's what's gonna happen?
Speaker 2: And then nothing happens. I think that it's just it's
Speaker 2: just it's just me.
Speaker 1: You said your daughter is seven, now, yeah, she's.
Speaker 2: About to be. Yeah, she's almost seven to start first grade?
Speaker 1: Cool, how's she doing? Like, what's what's she? What's she into?
Speaker 1: What's her? What's her? How's she doing?
Speaker 2: She's doing good? I just she is struggling in school already,
Speaker 2: and I see a lot of myself and her, and
Speaker 2: I just, yeah, I just want her to do good
Speaker 2: in school. But she and I mean, the problems that
Speaker 2: she has is like what I think would be normal.
Speaker 2: She just like wants to be a kid. She wants
Speaker 2: to do what she wants to do, and she has trouble,
Speaker 2: like listening to authority and like following structure and guide
Speaker 2: and you know, they're just trying to put her into
Speaker 2: the meat grinder of school. You know how, you know,
Speaker 2: you either stit or you don't. So I feel like,
Speaker 2: like I like that she can socialize with other kids
Speaker 2: because that was something I missed out on. You know,
Speaker 2: I didn't really get to have friends or socialize with
Speaker 2: people my own age, So I think that's important for her.
Speaker 2: But yeah, she I mean, at this stage, she's just
Speaker 2: like obsessed with like cats and legos and uh, we
Speaker 2: have pet roly polis, which is pretty cool. Most people
Speaker 2: are like, what what do you mean? You have petroly
Speaker 2: like little isopods, little roly pulleys. We have like there's
Speaker 2: like a community of people that keep like exotic ones
Speaker 2: that have different colors, and we have like white ones
Speaker 2: with yellow and black spots, and we have zebra ones
Speaker 2: that are black with white stripes. And I don't know.
Speaker 2: When I was a kid, I was really into bugs
Speaker 2: and shit, and dude, if my dad had to show
Speaker 2: any interest in anything that I like like that, that
Speaker 2: would have been huge. So yeah, we live in like
Speaker 2: a tiny town with a lot of like trees, and
Speaker 2: forests and stuff around. So I take her out on
Speaker 2: hikes and go on hikes and I try to teach her.
Speaker 2: We feed the crows. There's crow met here. We'll go
Speaker 2: feed the crows together, and I try to teach her
Speaker 2: know to respect nature and all life is valuable, even
Speaker 2: if it's small, its life still has value, you know.
Speaker 2: So we go rock hound. I bring her to look
Speaker 2: for fossils. There's like certain areas near us where you
Speaker 2: can find a lot of like marine fossils, like shells
Speaker 2: and stuff. Who go and do that. He likes wearing
Speaker 2: little cat ears and cat tails, and it's just funny
Speaker 2: with people. What is she intellect? She's into cats, so like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, she really likes cats.
Speaker 1: That sounds appropriate for a seven year old. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: sound you sound like a great dad.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: You're doing all this great stuff.
Speaker 2: Try man, I try. I just tried. And my dad,
Speaker 2: my dad saw his wife and his children his property,
Speaker 2: you know, like like they were like they were a
Speaker 2: dresser or a night stand, you know, like they were
Speaker 2: his things that he could do with thatever he wanted,
Speaker 2: because they're his, you know. And I try to I
Speaker 2: treat my girlfriend and my daughter like through their own
Speaker 2: individual people. And you know, she tells me how I
Speaker 2: don't want to hug you right now. Okay, well I
Speaker 2: don't want to do that. You know. I treat her
Speaker 2: like she's a person, you know, I ask her, I
Speaker 2: try and talk to her like a human being. And
Speaker 2: you know, that's one thing I never understood is I
Speaker 2: told my dad, you know, like, my life's been really hard, man,
Speaker 2: my life's been I've been struggling, and he just told me, oh,
Speaker 2: my life was hard too, And he just kind of
Speaker 2: has that mentality of like, oh, if my life was hard,
Speaker 2: your life should be hard because it'll build character or whatever.
Speaker 2: Like no one helped me, why should anyone help you.
Speaker 2: But I'm under the impression. I'm like I think of
Speaker 2: it like you're supposed to make it easier on the
Speaker 2: next generation. So the next drink becomes more educated and
Speaker 2: their life is a lot easier. In the next air,
Speaker 2: they're even more educated, and they have they make more money,
Speaker 2: and they're like, it's easy. You're not supposed to make
Speaker 2: it harder on the next generation because it was hard
Speaker 2: for you and it was hard for your dad. Like
Speaker 2: that's just going nowhere. So I my parents were really
Speaker 2: young when they had me too, So I try, like
Speaker 2: I try to look in perspective, like my parents were
Speaker 2: sixteen when they had me, So it's kind of crazy
Speaker 2: to think, like when I left home, my parents were
Speaker 2: like my age, and it's hard to think of like
Speaker 2: why was my dad such an asshole so young? Like
Speaker 2: why was he such a dick so young? Like he like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just it's hard to think, like, oh, dude,
Speaker 2: he was like twenty two being that much of an asshole,
Speaker 2: Like come on, man, you know I was supposed to
Speaker 2: make it harder on the next generation. We're supposed to
Speaker 2: make it easier. Build generational wealth, build heal generational trauma.
Speaker 2: Do you do you?
Speaker 1: I know it's uh maybe maybe it's hard to do,
Speaker 1: but for whatever reason, but do you you know, I
Speaker 1: hope you acknowledge yourself as uh uh having a lot
Speaker 1: of power and strength. Again, like I've been saying, to
Speaker 1: form your own beliefs about how this ship should go
Speaker 1: and live it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like a lot of people just like, oh,
Speaker 2: they're my parents, this is how things are. But you know,
Speaker 2: I've always been like, no, yeah, I'm gonna make my
Speaker 2: own past. You know, if they're not gonna treat me right,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go make my own past. I'm gonna go
Speaker 2: make my own family traditions. I'm gonna just because you're
Speaker 2: your family is toxic, just because of your family doesn't
Speaker 2: mean you have to put up with it, you know,
Speaker 2: like you can set boundaries, you can be like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be treated like that. My daughter's
Speaker 2: not going to be treated like that. We're not going
Speaker 2: to live like that. So it is. It does. It
Speaker 2: does take a lot of strength. And that's kind of
Speaker 2: like what I learned from being on the road for
Speaker 2: so long is like I had that sense, you know,
Speaker 2: I look around, I look behind me, nobody's there. I
Speaker 2: look around nobody nobody knew if I had food, nobody
Speaker 2: knew if I had sheltered nobody knew if I had clothes,
Speaker 2: only me, only me. I got myself there. So I
Speaker 2: feel like that strength I continue now because I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I know I can do it, and it is. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I feel I feel like I had pulled myself out
Speaker 2: from under the sidewalk, you know, like I started with
Speaker 2: less than nothing. Because I feel like I'm catching up
Speaker 2: to a lot of people my age, But I try
Speaker 2: not to compare myself too much because I'll start feeling
Speaker 2: about like, oh, like when will I ever own a house?
Speaker 2: When will I? You know this or that? But not
Speaker 2: everybody starts at the same spot, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: not every not everybody starts at go some people start
Speaker 2: behind me.
Speaker 1: M m.
Speaker 2: It's not fair to compare yourself to it. Even if
Speaker 2: someone's the same age. It's not fair to compare yourself
Speaker 2: because not everybody had the same opportunities, you know.
Speaker 1: Hmm, you know, I uh, I actually don't know if
Speaker 1: I ever caught your name, Steve, Steve, Steve, hm, hmm.
Speaker 2: How do you?
Speaker 1: I have a lot of questions for you.
Speaker 2: How do you? Uh?
Speaker 1: How do you feel? Having talked about all this stuff
Speaker 1: for the last let's see, almost hour and a half.
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't realize though, Well, I mean, I feel
Speaker 2: I feel better. I feel like I got some stuff
Speaker 2: off my chest. I feel better just talking about it.
Speaker 2: I've been yeah, a long time listener, first time called yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've listened for so I it kind of
Speaker 2: helps me. I like listening so much to your show
Speaker 2: because it helps me not think about my own problems
Speaker 2: sometimes like listen to other people's problems and kind of
Speaker 2: helps me put it in perspective. You know, everybody's got
Speaker 2: different things going on. You never know what someone's got
Speaker 2: going on, you know, you just see them in that moment,
Speaker 2: and that that's all. That's all the reference you have.
Speaker 2: So I like, yeah, just hearing people's stories, hearing what
Speaker 2: people are going through, you know, any day. Like I've
Speaker 2: thought about it so much, like what would I talk about?
Speaker 2: What would I say? And yeah, I mean I got
Speaker 2: a lot to say, but it just came naturally once
Speaker 2: I started talking. Yeah, you're very easy to talk to you,
Speaker 2: you know, once I started talking, you just.
Speaker 1: You know, Brah, have you ever thought about, uh, have
Speaker 1: you ever thought about like writing a book or a
Speaker 1: memoir or a I'm sure I mean after I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll tell you this and this has got
Speaker 1: to be I mean, I've been doing this show for
Speaker 1: five years. This has got to be one of one
Speaker 1: of my favorite conversations I think I've ever had doing
Speaker 1: this show. It's uh, I mean, it's it's it's it's fascinating.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: You're really really good at you know, telling your story.
Speaker 1: Have you ever I mean, after twelve fucking years of
Speaker 1: riding trains. You must have so many stories. Have you
Speaker 1: ever thought about like doings? I mean, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean it's awesome. I really appreciate you, uh coming on
Speaker 1: here and and and telling your story because I think
Speaker 1: it's I think it's fucking and incredible. Have you ever
Speaker 1: thought about writing a memoir or even like doing you know,
Speaker 1: a little YouTube things or anything like that. I don't
Speaker 1: know why that's where my brain goes, but I just
Speaker 1: I just like, I love I love your stories. You've
Speaker 1: lived in a wild life.
Speaker 2: I have thought about it, and I've had I've even
Speaker 2: had different people reach out to me asking if they
Speaker 2: could make something with me about it, or nothing ever
Speaker 2: really panned forward with it. I write poetry sometimes I
Speaker 2: do write like in a journal when I write things,
Speaker 2: but I've never tried to organize it. I gave you
Speaker 2: like the short version of everything. I'm sure, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I would like to just so it's not lost, just
Speaker 2: because I do like sharing my story and I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's other people that maybe could take use, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe they're going through really hard time. They don't. When
Speaker 2: you're in something, you don't see how it could get better.
Speaker 2: You know that. That's the thing is like when you're
Speaker 2: going through it, you don't see how it could possibly
Speaker 2: get any better different, you know, and it gets overwhelming.
Speaker 2: But think things really do take wild turns. You can
Speaker 2: change your life. You know, Like a few years ago,
Speaker 2: I would have thought for sure, you know, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: I'm gonna die outside on the side of the road
Speaker 2: somewhere and now here I am, I'm you know, so yeah,
Speaker 2: I uh, I don't even know where I would start,
Speaker 2: you know. I. I guess I should think about it more.
Speaker 2: But do you do you do you do?
Speaker 1: You do you if like it's it's okay, it's okay
Speaker 1: if not, and you know, if you want if you
Speaker 1: if you want to make something, well, I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you do you have do you do you post
Speaker 1: anything anyway? I know you said you write poems? Right,
Speaker 1: do you do you post anything anywhere? Like if if
Speaker 1: people who are listening to this wanted to keep up
Speaker 1: with you or anything like that, if that's something you want.
Speaker 1: You know, not you don't have to feel obligated to,
Speaker 1: but if that was something you want, do you have
Speaker 1: a thing that anyone listening to this?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: I want to catch up with you on I.
Speaker 2: Mean, I used to get quite a bit of traction
Speaker 2: on Reddit and Instagram, and I just like I got
Speaker 2: rid of it. I deleted every I don't. It's kind
Speaker 2: of crazy because yeah, man, I I completely hopped off
Speaker 2: social media because it was not doing so good for
Speaker 2: my mental health.
Speaker 1: Like I understand that too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like I I don't have Reddit, Facebook, Instagram, Snap,
Speaker 2: none of those on my phone. I don't use any
Speaker 2: of those. And like when I got rid of them, dude,
Speaker 2: my thumb would go and click on the empty space
Speaker 2: where those apps used to be. Like like anytime I
Speaker 2: had my I had a down moment, my thumb would
Speaker 2: just go to click those empty spaces at one. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I used to like, you know, yeah, I just I
Speaker 2: don't right now. It would be awesome because I wish
Speaker 2: I could show you some pictures, Uh, show you some
Speaker 2: pictures riding trains and stuff. Well, yeah, people used to.
Speaker 2: I felt it was kind of a debating thing when
Speaker 2: I deleted everything. I thought about it for a long time.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of the photos and videos saved.
Speaker 1: But well, well well let me let me let me
Speaker 1: tell you that if you if you ever do well,
Speaker 1: if and you again no pressure to ever, you know,
Speaker 1: do anything, because I also I also understand why people,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, we had the I remember, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you heard this episode, but we talked
Speaker 1: to the guy a little bit of a similar story
Speaker 1: to yours who went to go live in a cave
Speaker 1: in the tenery violence.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And he he started Instagram. But
Speaker 1: then I think he was kind of like, I want
Speaker 1: to stay offline, but it's up to you. But I
Speaker 1: just wanted to say, if you ever want to, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, do something, you can always I don't know
Speaker 1: if you have me on Instagram or whatever, but I
Speaker 1: check my dms and ships. So if you ever want
Speaker 1: to send me an email, or if you ever want
Speaker 1: to start posting anything or whatever, you can send me
Speaker 1: a d M or an email and I'll shout it
Speaker 1: out on you know, one of one of the future
Speaker 1: episodes of the podcast or on Instagram or something. So
Speaker 1: you know, invitation is open if you ever think about
Speaker 1: it and you want to start doing something like that.
Speaker 2: I appreciate this.
Speaker 1: I also wanted to, uh, you know, I'm live. We're
Speaker 1: live on twitch right now. If it's cool, I guess
Speaker 1: I'm you know, before we go, I could ask the
Speaker 1: twitch chat if they have any uh questions they want
Speaker 1: to ask you?
Speaker 2: Is that yah? Yeah? Yeah, I closed the chat when
Speaker 2: I when I when I answered the.
Speaker 1: Call, So I'm it's okay. I'll I'll give it the
Speaker 1: twitch chat a second to write some questions and I'll pick.
Speaker 1: I'll pick some stuff we have. One person said, tell
Speaker 1: Steve he is awesome. Keep doing what he's doing. A
Speaker 1: little pig boy says what was his favorite state from
Speaker 1: going coast to coast?
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, Really, it's hard to pick the I have
Speaker 2: like a top three. My top three is Colorado, Montana,
Speaker 2: and Oregon. But it's really hard for me to pick
Speaker 2: a pick. Like I love Colorado, but I also really
Speaker 2: love the ocean. I love the mountains. I love the
Speaker 2: nature of the forest. But yeah, like Montana, Oregon, call
Speaker 2: Colorado or just like the southeast never really hit my
Speaker 2: vibe that well, Like I went there a bunch, you know,
Speaker 2: it's just never really felt it, you know. But in
Speaker 2: like Montana, oh my gosh, fucking beautiful. You just open
Speaker 2: sky is beautiful. The people there are cool. Like I
Speaker 2: could just walk into a town and just be like, hey,
Speaker 2: I need work. I need a job, and I'd find like, oh,
Speaker 2: so and so down at the furnire stores renovating, you know,
Speaker 2: like it was like like people are always really cool
Speaker 2: up there. Oh I like the land up there. Yeah, Montana,
Speaker 2: Oregon and Colorado is my favorite, for sure.
Speaker 1: Someone wants to know, Uh, what was the other if
Speaker 1: you had any other, Like what the other scariest encounter
Speaker 1: was besides almost getting caught by the rail worker.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean that was just the very first
Speaker 2: train I ever got on. I mean there was times. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I got taken to jail twice for riding trains.
Speaker 2: But I used to tell people, you know, if you're
Speaker 2: scared to go to jail, don't ride trains, because that's
Speaker 2: not the worst thing that can happen. The worst thing
Speaker 2: I can even fucking die, you know what I mean. So, uh,
Speaker 2: that's not the scariest thing. I mean, I've had people
Speaker 2: I've been robbed at gunpoint, like had I literally just peeple.
Speaker 2: I'm like, man, I'm not gonna get shot over there.
Speaker 2: Like you know, like I've had people be like, oh
Speaker 2: what do we didn't do anything, and it's like, bro,
Speaker 2: you do what you want. To get shot over your
Speaker 2: fucking backpack, but you want to fucking die, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's not worth it, really, I bet yeah. I
Speaker 2: had the one time this guy with a machete. I
Speaker 2: was sitting there with this kid that'd never hopped a train.
Speaker 2: That was one of my favorite things to do is
Speaker 2: bring people that never rode trains Ryan trains, because I
Speaker 2: love to just look in their face, you know, when
Speaker 2: you start going and you just look at them and
Speaker 2: you can see that glint in their eye and it's just, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's magical. And this guy with a machete was just
Speaker 2: like walking around us all tweaked out on myth and
Speaker 2: he's just like, oh, you know how many of you
Speaker 2: are there? And I told I was like, oh, there's
Speaker 2: about four or five of us at the liquor store
Speaker 2: right now. And then he like walked away. And the
Speaker 2: greenhorn when you're new to something like Ryan trains to
Speaker 2: call them greenhorns. He was like, man, why'd you say
Speaker 2: that there was more of us? And I was like, bro,
Speaker 2: that guy does not need to know that it's just
Speaker 2: me and you down here, because we're like, I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the hardest thing is like getting off the train,
Speaker 2: because then you've got the cops fucking with you. You
Speaker 2: got people all kinds of crazy, tweaked out homeless people
Speaker 2: fucking with you, you know what I mean, Like you're
Speaker 2: just trying to get some food and water and supplies
Speaker 2: and go. So that was like the hardest part. I mean,
Speaker 2: I almost died riding trains now that I mean that
Speaker 2: will still give me nightmares, Like I still wake up
Speaker 2: sometimes with nightmares from that. I almost died of dehydration,
Speaker 2: and it was, I mean, it got It was so serious.
Speaker 2: I was having auditory and visual hallucinations just from dehydration,
Speaker 2: and my press real vision was gone. It was like
Speaker 2: someone was holding their hands over my eyes, like it
Speaker 2: was all black all around my eyes and I could
Speaker 2: only see right in front of me. I basically I
Speaker 2: hopped onto a coal train and I thought it was
Speaker 2: going one way, but we ended up going towards a
Speaker 2: coal mine and we sided out. So the train stopped
Speaker 2: and I was on an empty coal train and I
Speaker 2: look and there's a what I thought was a full
Speaker 2: train loaded with coal. So I got off and got
Speaker 2: on that one because I'm like, oh, this loaded coal
Speaker 2: is gonna leave, and mind you, it's over one hundred degrees.
Speaker 2: It's like one hundred and eight degrees. And the next
Speaker 2: day we're still there. And I walked to the front
Speaker 2: of the train, walk to the back of the train.
Speaker 2: There's no engines. It's just a string of coal in
Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere. And I look all around. There's
Speaker 2: no bushes, there's no trees, there's no shade, there's no
Speaker 2: power lines, there's no pupp of smoke. I'm like out
Speaker 2: in the open planes, just on this string of loaded coal.
Speaker 2: And I run out of water quick and at one
Speaker 2: point I started walking away and then I was like no.
Speaker 2: I was like, I need to go back to the train,
Speaker 2: because they're not just going to leave a loaded coal
Speaker 2: train there forever. They'll eventually come back for it. And
Speaker 2: I was like, if I just walk where am I
Speaker 2: walking to it? Ut to the horizon, I'm gonna die.
Speaker 2: So I walked back to the string of trains and
Speaker 2: did I tell the story to people and they're like, man,
Speaker 2: you probably drank your piss, huh. And I'm like, dude,
Speaker 2: I was so dehydrated I couldn't piss. Like I was trapped.
Speaker 2: One point, I had my dog bowl and I was
Speaker 2: trying to pee into the dog bowl to drink it.
Speaker 2: And I couldn't even pee anything there was. I couldn't
Speaker 2: even it was so bad, I couldn't even piss. And
Speaker 2: then like I'm hearing voices, I'm hearing people laughing at me,
Speaker 2: mocking my condition. I'm seeing like shadow people running in
Speaker 2: front of my vision, and like I thought I was
Speaker 2: gonna die, gag. I had came to peace with my
Speaker 2: leg I was like, this is it, this is my
Speaker 2: last train. I fucked up. I'm gonna die, this is it,
Speaker 2: and I had I was so out of it that
Speaker 2: I thought I was cold, and I had every layer
Speaker 2: of clothing on me. So they eventually did come for
Speaker 2: the train, and the railroad workers saved my life. I
Speaker 2: was in and out of consciousness. I was going in
Speaker 2: and out of consciousness, and I it was over one
Speaker 2: hundred degrees and I had every article. I had my
Speaker 2: thermal un to wear on, I had my being on,
Speaker 2: I had my hoodie on, I had my jacket, I
Speaker 2: had everything on because I thought I was freezing. I
Speaker 2: thought it was freezing cold. And they found me. They
Speaker 2: brought me the hospital. They fucking but yeah, man, every
Speaker 2: day since then's been extra for me, I've been like
Speaker 2: every day since. Then's an extra. That was my first
Speaker 2: first couple of years Ryan trains, and it happened because
Speaker 2: I was arrogant and coffee and I just thought I
Speaker 2: could get on and off whenever I wanted. I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm in control, you know. But you went to know
Speaker 2: that the trains in control. There's no such thing as
Speaker 2: the wrong train. You just went a way you didn't
Speaker 2: want to go. You know, the trains goes where the
Speaker 2: train goes. But dude, I'll wake up like screaming for
Speaker 2: water and shit gets bad. I'll feel like I'm still
Speaker 2: there on that cold train, fucking with no water. I
Speaker 2: had food, I had weed, I had everything except water.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: I know it was probably a longer answer than you were.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no no no. Yeah. It's real out there, man.
Speaker 2: It's like like people will ask me, oh, what's the
Speaker 2: worst thing that happened to you out there? And then
Speaker 2: when I tell them, I can just see the look
Speaker 2: in their faith they like they didn't really expect it
Speaker 2: to be that deep. I'm like, the highs are really high.
Speaker 2: The lows are like I've seen the worst that humanity
Speaker 2: has to offer, but I've also seen the best.
Speaker 1: Well like that kind of actually, well, what you're saying
Speaker 1: actually brings me into the next question that somebody asked that.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: I'm also a little bit curious about as someone said.
Speaker 1: Basically they were like, you know, someone in the chat
Speaker 1: was like, I want to get into hopping trains. How
Speaker 1: should I get into it? But I want to ask you, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, in light of a comment like that, like
Speaker 1: after everything, if somebody came to you and said, I
Speaker 1: want to start hopping trains, how should I get into it?
Speaker 1: Would you recommend that they that they that they that
Speaker 1: they start, that they go on the journey.
Speaker 2: I don't regret it at all. Man, it was the
Speaker 2: best thing I could have made, that choice could go.
Speaker 2: But it's not for everybody. And I used to tell
Speaker 2: people out there, you know, like if you've got somewhere
Speaker 2: to go back to, if you got people that love you,
Speaker 2: if you've got a family, if you got a support system,
Speaker 2: if you got good for you will eventually go home.
Speaker 2: You know, like like there's no ifans there, but if
Speaker 2: you've got that support system, eventually you'll go home because
Speaker 2: you'll get tired of being hungry, cold, fucking whatever, you know,
Speaker 2: But this whole time, ain't Lots of people have asked
Speaker 2: me this question and I always tell them the same thing.
Speaker 2: You cannot learn how to do this by watching YouTube videos.
Speaker 2: You cannot learn how to just do You will die.
Speaker 2: You will fucking die. Like the only way that I
Speaker 2: recommend anybody get into this, and it's hard to do this,
Speaker 2: but it's to find someone that knows what they're doing
Speaker 2: and is already doing it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like that, like that can show you, hey, if you
Speaker 2: step there, you don't want to step there, because when
Speaker 2: the train buckles, your foot will get caught and you
Speaker 2: will fucking die, you know. Like like there's just certain things,
Speaker 2: like it goes beyond just getting on the train, hiding
Speaker 2: and getting off the train. Like you know, there's shipping facilities.
Speaker 2: Your train could get pulled into a shipping facility and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you're surrounded by barbed wire and
Speaker 2: watch towers and they're fucking yanking all the cargo containers
Speaker 2: off the train with cranes.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: They they got railroad police that won't arrest you. They'll
Speaker 2: take a box cutter and cut the straps of your backpack.
Speaker 2: Leave you there with a backpack you can't wear, take
Speaker 2: your sleeping bag, cut your sleeping bag up, leave you
Speaker 2: there like that. Uh, it's if you're gonna do it,
Speaker 2: you gotta go with somebody. And the best way to
Speaker 2: meet I think the best way to meet someone like
Speaker 2: that is, like I said those Rainbow gatherings in the
Speaker 2: beginning of my story that I was talking about, you
Speaker 2: go to enough Rainbow. You're gonna meet some train hoppers
Speaker 2: and they might not like you at first day. You
Speaker 2: know what, the first train hoppers I've ever very met
Speaker 2: made fun of me because I was a hitchhiker and
Speaker 2: train hoppers think hitchhikers are stupid.
Speaker 1: But that's a very interesting, Uh, that's a very weird rivalry.
Speaker 1: I never even thought about that.
Speaker 2: Well, dude, dude out there, like there's like cast systems almost,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like like like the train
Speaker 2: hoppers think that they're better than the people that drive
Speaker 2: around in cars and putting cars, and they think that
Speaker 2: they're better than like the hitchhikers. And also the people
Speaker 2: we call them home bums, the people that are just
Speaker 2: homeless in one town and don't go anywhere and don't
Speaker 2: do anything like we kind of hold it. We won't
Speaker 2: hang out with those people usually like you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like, uh knows in the air. Fuck
Speaker 2: you get away from me, because you're the reason everybody
Speaker 2: hates us is because you're just sitting here in one
Speaker 2: spot making a miss. You know. But any train hopper
Speaker 2: that tells you he doesn't hitchhike is a liar. You've
Speaker 2: got to hitchhike when you're Ryan train. Eventually you're gonna
Speaker 2: have You're gonna have to hitchhike. But yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: train hoppers are like, oh, why would you just stand
Speaker 2: there with your thumb ow? You can just fucking ride freight.
Speaker 2: But like Ryan frays, not for any but everybody. Like,
Speaker 2: when it's hot, it's hot. When it's cold, it's cool.
Speaker 2: I've rode trains in negative ten, and i rode trains
Speaker 2: in one hundred and ten. I'd rather ride in negative
Speaker 2: ten than one hundred and ten, honestly, which surprises a
Speaker 2: lot of people. But yeah, when when it's negative ten,
Speaker 2: if you got the right gear, you're fine. But one
Speaker 2: hundred and ten there is no right gear. Like you're
Speaker 2: on a fucking piece of metal, no shade that the
Speaker 2: metal is hot as fuck. It's like burning up. You
Speaker 2: touch it at all, and you're yeah, so I'd much
Speaker 2: rather ride and negative can. But and it's never the
Speaker 2: answer people want to hear. No one ever wants to hear. Oh,
Speaker 2: go find a train hopper and fucking get bullied by
Speaker 2: them and like either greenhorn and carry their water and
Speaker 2: stuff and go and learn the ropes. But really, that's
Speaker 2: how you do it and keep your limbs, you know,
Speaker 2: like you gotta find somebody, you gotta get caught the waves,
Speaker 2: because you can't just watch some YouTube videos and be
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna do it. It's just too dangerous. Hitch hiking. Yeah,
Speaker 2: go out hitchhiking, and fucking you'll run into people. Man
Speaker 2: Like when I went out, I didn't know that people
Speaker 2: lived out there doing that. I didn't know that there
Speaker 2: was like a whole subculture of people just like by choice,
Speaker 2: living out there on the road with their backpack. When
Speaker 2: I went out, I had no idea. So like, that's
Speaker 2: the best way to get into it. Just go out
Speaker 2: here chiking, Go to some rainbow gatherings, go to the
Speaker 2: gem shows, go to the Tucson gem Show. Check out something,
Speaker 2: go to hardly strictly, do you know, like you go
Speaker 2: places where the culture is and you'll meet people, you know.
Speaker 1: M hmmm, Steve, this has been I said it again,
Speaker 1: but I you know, I mean, I'm sorry I said
Speaker 1: it before, but I'll say it again. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: this has been. Yeah, one of my you know, favorite
Speaker 1: conversations that I've had doing this. I would say, I
Speaker 1: really appreciate you sharing your story. I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: I I know that you haven't had the chat open,
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of people in the chat who
Speaker 1: are just you know, uh, giving you your flowers on
Speaker 1: you know, uh getting to where you are from where
Speaker 1: you've been and you know, doing you and being you.
Speaker 1: So I hope, uh helpe you recognize that you got
Speaker 1: a lot of support out there.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: I don't got enough people in my life telling me
Speaker 2: I'm doing a good job, you know, like so sometimes
Speaker 2: the reference is out of sight for me because I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I appreciate that, bro.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I again, everyone in this chat is like really
Speaker 1: really really supportive, and you know, I hope I don't
Speaker 1: what do I hm hm hmmm, this, I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know how there's some guy commented being like, I
Speaker 1: can help you tell your story if you want to
Speaker 1: tell it. I don't know, I got I'd let you
Speaker 1: know here. I'll do this because I know that, like
Speaker 1: I I I already said this, but I'll say it
Speaker 1: again if you want to. You know, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you have me on Instagram or you have me
Speaker 1: on whatever, but if you want to create some form
Speaker 1: of line of communication for anyone who hears this to
Speaker 1: get in touch with you, you can hit me up
Speaker 1: and I'll figure out a way to Yeah.
Speaker 2: I only listen to the Spotify Okay, I mean I
Speaker 2: have an email and I have Blue Sky, but yeah,
Speaker 2: that's about it.
Speaker 1: You can, I mean, you can drop your email if
Speaker 1: you want, you know, if you if you I'm sure,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm like one hundred percent sure that there will
Speaker 1: be people who want to get in touch with you
Speaker 1: after this, and if that's something you're open to, you're
Speaker 1: totally welcome to drop your email on here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I like talk. Like I said in
Speaker 2: the beginning, man, I'm one of those people I can
Speaker 2: just walk up to anybody and start talking to them.
Speaker 2: So it does help me to talk to people and
Speaker 2: just you know, so my email is kind of long,
Speaker 2: but there's no like all right, So it's trip Trap
Speaker 2: tramp trash at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Okay, trip t r I p t r I p
Speaker 1: t r.
Speaker 5: A p so trip trap, trip trap tramp p r
Speaker 5: A M p mm HM trash, trip trap tramp trash.
Speaker 2: That's that was my full name on the road that
Speaker 2: I gave myself was trip Trap tramp Trash, trip.
Speaker 1: Trap tramp trash at gmail.
Speaker 2: Yes at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Okay, trip trap tramp trash at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Okay, no underscores or dots or anything. Yeah, just all
Speaker 2: under case.
Speaker 1: Yeah man, trap tramp trash. Yeah, let me know if
Speaker 1: me I'm curious if people reach out to you, that'd
Speaker 1: be cool, that'd be cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we'll see how this goes. I don't get
Speaker 2: too any of you.
Speaker 1: Steve Man. Once again, dude, thank you. This is this
Speaker 1: is this actually might be the longest phone call I've
Speaker 1: had on this show. At How long is this? Like
Speaker 1: fucking we've been going for on for almost two hours?
Speaker 1: I really I appreciate your time.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for uh for for getting on
Speaker 1: here with me and telling your story. It was super fascinating.
Speaker 1: It was uh and dude, I wish you the best
Speaker 1: of luck. I think you're doing a fucking great job
Speaker 1: being a father, being there for your kid, making the
Speaker 1: decisions you got to make to be there for your family.
Speaker 1: I think you're doing awesome. I'm excited for you for
Speaker 1: the future. And you know, thanks, thanks again for your time, man,
Speaker 1: Thanks for thanks for chat with us. I'm sure I'm
Speaker 1: sure a lot of people will listen to this and
Speaker 1: you know, gain some form of camaraderie if they themselves
Speaker 1: feel like they're not doing so hot. Is there anything
Speaker 1: else you want to say to the people of the
Speaker 1: computer before we go?
Speaker 2: Just keep going. You know you got it. Even if
Speaker 2: you can't see it. There's light at the end of
Speaker 2: the tunnel. You'll get through it. Just because you can't
Speaker 2: see it now, it doesn't even it's not there. You
Speaker 2: know that. That's probably the biggest thing. And I know
Speaker 2: it's hard to see it when you're in it, but
Speaker 2: you just keep going. You just keep you just persevere,
Speaker 2: you know, like we're all gonna die anyway. You only
Speaker 2: get this one life, so like, just live it because
Speaker 2: then it's over, you know what I mean, Like you
Speaker 2: just live it like you got this one life, you
Speaker 2: got this one chance. It's gonna be over anyway, so
Speaker 2: just live it.
Speaker 1: Books gig, Thank you, Steve. I appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: You have the rest of the day you toobe books
Speaker 1: by Steve. What a what a What a phone call? Folks?
Speaker 1: What a phone call? Folks. I wasn't just blowing smoke
Speaker 1: up up Steve's ass. I really that was one of
Speaker 1: the my favorite episodes of the show I think I've recorded.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was you know, he had such an
Speaker 1: amazing story and he told it so well, and it's
Speaker 1: just wild, man. I mean, twelve fucking years of of
Speaker 1: hopping trains and you know, dealing with like fucking family
Speaker 1: shit and then uh, it's really it's beautiful to hear
Speaker 1: about someone like going out and breaking the cycle and
Speaker 1: trying to like be the father that they didn't have.
Speaker 1: Like I think that's so I think that's so cool,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's so cool because it's so
Speaker 1: easy to let life smack you around and mold you
Speaker 1: into something, and just to to talk to someone who
Speaker 1: who through sheer like force of fucking will, right, Like
Speaker 1: I don't I always wonder, I always there's so much
Speaker 1: that shapes us as people that's out of our fucking control.
Speaker 1: You know, there's so much that shapes this as people
Speaker 1: that's out of our fucking control, Like who our parents are, weird,
Speaker 1: neurological synaps, firing, whatever, the fuck shit that I don't
Speaker 1: know about, environment, time, random chance, whatever. There's so much
Speaker 1: that's beyond us that like shapes who we are.
Speaker 5: And then.
Speaker 1: You know, I hear a story like Steve's and it's
Speaker 1: like and and little shit about it where he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: fucking guy offered me crack and I wanted to try
Speaker 1: it and this guy was like, I'm not gonna give
Speaker 1: you your first hit of crack, and like that just
Speaker 1: you know, saved his ass. And you know, everyone around
Speaker 1: him was drinking and he wasn't into drinking, and is
Speaker 1: you know, dad was shitty to him and he ended
Speaker 1: up being a good dad regardless, and like, bro, just
Speaker 1: the story of a guy just like encountering every pitfall
Speaker 1: that was possible to knock him down and still like
Speaker 1: creating a beautiful life for himself. It's cool. It makes
Speaker 1: me question my often deterministic viewpoint about life and and
Speaker 1: lean more heavily into the idea that we have free
Speaker 1: will over who we want to become and not letting
Speaker 1: the ship that happens to us or the world we
Speaker 1: live in or whatever like shape us permanently. It's cool.
Speaker 1: It's an inspiring story. I appreciate I appreciate you staring
Speaker 1: at sharing it. Steve once again, Yeah, what is it again? Trip?
Speaker 1: I wrote it down trip Trap tramp Trash a GMI
Speaker 1: dot com. I don't know. Sometimes I like the idea
Speaker 1: that you know, I mean, we had We've had a
Speaker 1: few callers on this podcast that uh wires have crossed
Speaker 1: somehow by people listening to it, and uh, cool things happen.
Speaker 1: So I like, I like throwing it. I like throwing
Speaker 1: it out there for that to happen. Anyway. Uh, this
Speaker 1: has been the the Therapy Gecko podcast. Thank you all
Speaker 1: very much for listening. This was This was great.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, share it with your friends.
Speaker 1: I'd like, I'd like people to hear this. I think
Speaker 1: this is a really cool story. I think this is
Speaker 1: a good uh you know, I mean I've been doing
Speaker 1: I've been doing this like two episodes a week for
Speaker 1: five years, and sometimes I'm like, are we out of
Speaker 1: stories and then something comes, something comes by the desk
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh shit, you know, uh this this
Speaker 1: this thing keeps uh given and given interesting stuff. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm proud to be doing this show. I'm
Speaker 1: honored to have you guys listening to it. And anything else.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I have anything else to say.
Speaker 1: I think that's it, all right, Thank you all for
Speaker 1: listening gek bless see you around the universe. Hello, folks,
Speaker 1: it's Lyle here. That's the end of this episode. But
Speaker 1: get this, I'm releasing a bonus episode this week. That's right,
Speaker 1: an entire extra hour of the podcast that you can
Speaker 1: listen to. By becoming a premium member of Therapy Gecko
Speaker 1: over at Therapy Gecko dot supercast dot com. Supercast subscribers
Speaker 1: get access to bonus episodes, they get a completely ad
Speaker 1: free podcast feed of the regular show, they get recordings
Speaker 1: from my live shows, members only streams, and they help
Speaker 1: support my ability to continue doing this podcast. So here's
Speaker 1: a clip from this week's members only bonus episode. So
Speaker 1: you have these uh bass gastric distress as you call it,
Speaker 1: and it says here that this causes you to shit
Speaker 1: your pants. Uh in several inopportune situations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I went to a I went to a show,
Speaker 3: and I, uh, I ship myself right before we went
Speaker 3: into the show. I just to give some context, I
Speaker 3: ate a cheeseburger, and at the time I didn't know,
Speaker 3: but now I know.
Speaker 2: I'm lactose intolerant. It's kind of embarrassing, but I kind
Speaker 2: of tell it to my friends with a funny story.
Speaker 2: The mouse sagure it on here. I'm kind of like,
Speaker 2: dam like, it's kind of fucked up.
Speaker 1: No, I think it's pretty funny. If you want to
Speaker 1: hear this full conversation, you can sign up to become
Speaker 1: a premium member at therapy Gecko dot supercast dot com,
Speaker 1: or find the link in the episode description that's therapy
Speaker 1: Gecko dot supercast dot All right, I have nothing else
Speaker 1: to say.
Speaker 2: There. Repeat goes on the line, taking your phone calls
Speaker 2: every night.
Speaker 1: The repink Can goes doing his ride.
Speaker 2: He's teaching you aloud in the middle of your life,
Speaker 2: but he's not really an expert.