1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. Around two thirty PM, the Broward 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office responds to reports of a shooting with 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: multiple injuries at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School. Oh my god, 5 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: I haven't gone god By, but what on the what 6 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: side of the school? Kids were freaking out? Stunt kids 7 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: from some kids are on the phone. SWAT teams go 8 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: from room to room, securing areas before allowing students and 9 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: teachers to evacuate. The Broward County Sheriff says, at least 10 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: seventeen people are dead. Seventeen people. It's insane, it's it's 11 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: it's unnecessary, and there's no words to describe how I feel. Right. 12 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: I'm like I was shaking, I was I was panicking, 13 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: was all out panic about the school. One of the 14 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: were school shootings in you. As history goes down the 15 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: morning after, everybody's saying could have, would have, should have 16 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: looking back at all the red flags that were waving 17 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: at the authorities right under their noses. This as the defendant. 18 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: There is no doubt. This is the shooter. Appears in 19 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: court being hugged by his defense attorney. He says he 20 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 1: was just misguided. That is cold comfort for the families 21 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: of seventeen dead children. I mean, see, Grace, this is 22 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: Crime Stories, and we want justice. More important than justice even, 23 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: we want the truth. Joining me right now and all 24 00:01:55,400 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: Star panel, John Limley, Karen Starr, Ashley Wilcott, Joseph Scott, Oregon, 25 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: David Kat's, Rob Hessel, Brian Level, Brian Levin to John Limley, 26 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter. The shooter who had the wherewithal 27 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: to plan the attack, carefully bringing in a semi assault rifle, 28 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: extra magazines of ammunition hidden in a backpack, smoke grenades, 29 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: thought to pull the fire alarm, to create chaos and 30 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: confusion and bring his victims out so he could pick 31 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: them off one by one, like shooting a fish in 32 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: a barrel and then thanking. To put on a hat 33 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: and blend in with all the students pouring out, to 34 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: leave undetected, to stop at a sub sandwich place, to 35 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 1: stop at a McDonald's and kick back. Are you kidding me, 36 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: John Limley? What happened? According to authorities, the gunman who 37 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: as we know now no killed seventeen people inside that 38 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: school in Florida, has told police that he heard voices 39 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: in his head that gave him instructions for the attack. 40 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: The voices were described as demons by law enforcement sources. Meanwhile, 41 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: it emerged that police were called to Nicholas Cruz's family's 42 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: Parkland home thirty nine times since the Sheriff's office received 43 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: a range of emergency calls that included mentally ill person, child, 44 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: elderly abuse, domestic disturbance, missing person, several others. Cruz moved 45 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: in with a friends family with his adoptive mother, sixty 46 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: eight year old Linda Cruz. She passed away in November 47 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: from pneumonia. During this first court appearance on Thursday, Cruise, 48 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: as you've mentioned, was comforted by his public to Fender 49 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: as he was ordered held without bail in connection to 50 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: the deadly shooting at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School on Wednesday. Question, 51 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: I got a question, have we heard anything to suggest 52 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: um that the demon voices told him to go to 53 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: Subway Sandwich and pick up a six inch white because 54 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: I don't think so, emerged. I hear all that, but 55 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: I'm looking at the images taken from a student's cell 56 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: phone shows a girl's lifeless body lying in the middle 57 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: of a classroom in a pool of blood, neighbors and 58 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: relative saying that his mom, who adopted him as a child, 59 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: along with her husband, the Crews family, sacrificed herself to 60 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: give them a beautiful home, a loving home, to make 61 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: their life better, to do everything she could for them. 62 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: All the times, many of the times police were called 63 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: to their home, it was for harassing neighbors. This boy 64 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: harassing neighbors to the point they were called police. But 65 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: after all those calls, not one single arrest. Joining me now, 66 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: Rob Hessel, author of Safe City from Law Enforcement to 67 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: Neighborhood Watches, a security and safety analyst who specializes and 68 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: how to keep your community safe. Rob, what do you 69 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: make of it? Well, this is this is horrible, And 70 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: all the signs were there that this boy had such 71 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: a troubled past, and I'm not sure how he was 72 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: able to assemble arsenal of weapons. But even more concerning 73 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: for me was how was this boy who had a 74 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: history of violence, who had already been kicked out of 75 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: two schools and identified by a school that he was 76 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: a threat. How did he get on campus in the 77 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: first place. That's my question to Brian Levin, director of 78 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at 79 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: University Californi, NYA, San Bernardina. Brian, thank you for being 80 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: with us. At first you get I'm glad you're with us, Brian. 81 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:13,119 Speaker 1: You know, at first some extremist right wing nut job 82 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: group claimed he was their member. That's been debunked. Yeah, 83 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: that that was first reported when there was some rumors 84 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: on four Chan and various entities. Respectable entities, by the way, 85 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: such as the A d L as well as the 86 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 1: Associated Press, spoke to the rather not very illuminating head 87 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: of a hate group called the Republic of Florida, who 88 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: said that this individual went to a training camp uh 89 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: and then UM he later backtracked on it. UH. The 90 00:06:55,200 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: sheriff Sheriff Israel down in Broward County UH did not 91 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: confirm a connection during the day, and then later on 92 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: papers throughout the state appeared to have debunked that. That 93 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: being said, it is not unusual for extremist groups of 94 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: all types to try to ensnare unstable people. It just 95 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:24,239 Speaker 1: appears in this case it didn't happen. The Florida Gunman 96 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: now says quote demon voices tell him how to pull 97 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: off a school shooting. Police revealing, as John Limley has reported, 98 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: they were called out to the family home thirty nine times, 99 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: thirty nine times joining me actually Wilcot, Wilcot lawyer and 100 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: child advocate. I mean this was planned. This was not 101 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: some snap as it's um referred to in the vernacular. 102 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: There's no defense called snap. But that didn't happen. This 103 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: was planned out. Everybody quote new he was a sick, weird, 104 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: psychotic guy. That's the way the classmates describe him to me. 105 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: Their words, not mine. The school had kicked him out. 106 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: He had been kicked out of two schools before. He 107 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: was told he couldn't come back in a backpack because 108 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: they're afraid to have a gun in bullets. Um Bill 109 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: Bondsman out of Mississippi, called the f b I six 110 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: months ago and told them about this guy making threats 111 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: on schools online. Ashley, you know I always saw a 112 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: law enforcement No, this is totally lame. Heads need to roll. 113 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: They said they couldn't identify him. Hello, he had his 114 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: his real name and his face on there right. Yeah, 115 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 1: this is a situation where clearly you had a troubled 116 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: child and he's done all kinds of things that he 117 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: could have been held responsible for and could have been 118 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: charged with, and could have been prosecuted for and could 119 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: have been jailed for. None of that happened. The other 120 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: thing that's really troubling to me is that here he says, oh, 121 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 1: I heard demons and my voices. But everything you just 122 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: laid out Nancy makes very very clear it was premeditated, 123 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: well planned out, and then the whole Oh, he blended 124 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: in with the students, walked away, went to get something 125 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: to eat, went the subway. It is too premeditated for 126 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: me to believe that all of a sudden heard voices 127 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: that said, oh, the demons telling me, go kill all 128 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: these people. I am a future school shooter. I want 129 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: to pre a professional school shooter. David Katz, CEO of 130 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: the Global Security Group, Active Shooter Response Expert, former d 131 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: E A firearms expert, terror analyst. You know, when we 132 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: think of terror, we think of the evil isis. We 133 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: think of nine one one, the attack on the World 134 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: Trade Center. I will never forget that being in New 135 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: York that day, But this is just as terrifying to 136 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: those children. Under the law, they are children that were 137 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: gunned down in their own school. When I drove away 138 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: from the Twin school this morning, my heart, my stomach 139 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: just felt sick. I actually drove back through Davy Cats 140 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: to make sure the doors were all locked. Well, it 141 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: doesn't matter to the victims whether the shooter was ideologically 142 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: motivated or psychotic. Like this, this is one of these 143 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 1: incidents where every single thing done on it, from every 144 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: possible aspect, was exactly opposite what we teach people to do. 145 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: As I like to say, Bass Ackwards, Yeah, I mean 146 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: there's there's no I mean in every single you know, 147 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: in some cases there are no warning signs in this one. 148 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 1: I mean, how much more would this kid have have 149 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: had to have done before someone took it? Seriously, I'm 150 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: really interested to see what the FBI did with that 151 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: information that was got gained from that bail bondsman. Somebody, 152 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 1: if somebody, if no one wrote a report on that, 153 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: exactly right, heads got a role. If there is a report, 154 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: like in the e A, we would do, if we 155 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: didn't open a case, we would do what it's called 156 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: the general file report. Maybe there is a general file report. 157 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: Why wasn't Why wasn't that followed up? Why is there 158 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: thirty nine thirty visits by the police and not a 159 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: single arrest. You mentioned earlier how he how he was 160 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: able to assemble an arsenal, well if he had a 161 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: felony conviction, you can't bike on legally, and certainly at 162 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: this point in in our culture, there needs to be 163 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: some mechanism by which if a school administrator or school psychologist, 164 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: because psychologist, or some medical professional or otherwise identify as 165 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,319 Speaker 1: a person a child, anyone who probably should not should 166 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: be on the equipal, the gun equivalent of the no 167 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: fly list. We've got to have a mechanism where this 168 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: person cannot walk into a sporting good store, gun store 169 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: and purchase a fire on period. I'm just looking at 170 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: the cruise home. I mean, Jackie, have you seen this? 171 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: I mean, Ashley, it looks like it's a French design. 172 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 1: I mean, it's nice. It's a beautiful manicured lawn. I know, 173 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: all you men just tune out because it's not gonna 174 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: be anything, I mean anything to you except for Ashley 175 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: and Karen Starr and I. We're gonna know what we're 176 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: talking about here, guys. Ashley, Karen, there's a beautiful, uh 177 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 1: stand of trees beside the home. There are. It's a 178 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: well kept yard. The shrubs, there's a lot of shrub 179 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: word that that takes time and money. We know this. 180 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: There's a white paved driveway leading up to a circular 181 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: roundabout in front of the home with an attached two 182 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: door two car garage possibly three, a giant archway over 183 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: the front. Uh this, this is a well kept home 184 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: in the Mediterranean style, and somebody had some money somewhere 185 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: and took care of the home. Sources tell me Karen Stark, 186 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: New York psychologists joining us Karen that the mother and 187 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: the father wanted these children desperately took in him and 188 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: his brother. I haven't heard much about the brother. And 189 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:30,079 Speaker 1: she spent her life, she worked and was devoted to 190 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: quote giving them a beautiful home. And I don't mean 191 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: necessarily looking beautiful, which it does. I mean, hey, I 192 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: move into that heartbeat, but a beautiful home as in 193 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: loving homie, comforting for these two boys. That she really 194 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: devoted her life to them, and the father wanted them 195 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: just as much. Now he passed away. I think of 196 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: a heart attack several years ago, about five years ago. Uh. 197 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: Then a mom just passed away with pneumonia recently in 198 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: the last month or so. But all people could say, argue, 199 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: Karen Start, that he went off the rails when his 200 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: mom passed away. But these thirty nine arrest reports that 201 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: John Lemley, Brian Levin, Rob Hustle, and David Katz were 202 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: talking about those all happened while the mom was alive. 203 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: That he was kicked out of school. He reportedly brought 204 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: a bullet to school in his backpack one day, got 205 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: in a fight with his ex girlfriend's new boyfriend because 206 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: he had been abusive to her. I mean, all this 207 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: was brewing before the mom passed away. So before we 208 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: start saying little orphan Annie, let's look at the facts. Okay, 209 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: let's look at the facts. And this is what I 210 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: would tell juries. The truth doesn't always taste good going down, 211 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: But it is our duty not to turn away from 212 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: the truth, to look at it and analyze it and 213 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: come up with a solution. So what do you make 214 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: of it, Karen Start, you're the shrink. Well, not that 215 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: there is a particular profile for this, Nancy, because school 216 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: shooters are not from the same kind of backgrounds and 217 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: they're not all the same, But there are things about 218 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: school shooters that he fits completely. He has a history 219 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: of violence, and neighbors all talk about it. Other students 220 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: talk about the fact that his favorite thing to talk 221 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: about with guns knives. He would post pictures of animals 222 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: that he had killed. He liked to shoot rats. And 223 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: so when you bring up the fact that his mother 224 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: died in November, all I can say about that is 225 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: the trauma of his mother dying just exacerbated what was 226 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: already there. If he it was a planned attack, which 227 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: is not unusual, there was nothing impulsive about it, and 228 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: he let people know that this was going to happen. 229 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: The defense attorney is arguing, Joe Scott, I know you're 230 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: tramping at the bit hold on, ladies for to Jesse 231 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: As Scott Morgan Ashley Rollcott, people are already climbing and 232 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: referring to his defense attorney quote, the child he's nineteen, 233 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: is deeply troubled and he is endured significant trauma that 234 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: stems from the loss of his mother. Okay, I I 235 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: hear that, because I just lost my dad. I hear 236 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: about I understand that. But that is not a defense, Ashley, 237 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: that is not a defense. You go tell that to 238 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: the families of these seventeen your children, that are dead. 239 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: That's it. It is not a defense and it does 240 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: not excuse the behavior. So here's the thing. Repeated trauma 241 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: scientifically now shows changes the varying chemistry and children, So 242 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: doesn't affect children a d. Does it excuse these crimes, murders, 243 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: killing spree. Absolutely not, and so it cannot be posed 244 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: as a defense or an excuse, and it's not a 245 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: egle defense. Now to forensics expert, Professor Forensics SIT, Jackson 246 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: State University, Joseph Scott Morgan, Joe Scott, I know you 247 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: have very carefully gone over what we have learned regarding 248 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: to physical evidence. I know that you cannot date what 249 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: injury was first but from the traffic pattern, from the 250 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: entry the exit. But we know about the way this 251 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: went down. We can determine what happened chronologically. In your mind, 252 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,239 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, I want to hear your analysis. I've been 253 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: waiting on this. I was I was reflecting on this, Nancy, 254 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: and one of the things that that kind of struck 255 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: me was actually, it will be twenty years ago next 256 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: month was the Jonesboro, Arkansas shooting where the two kids 257 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: came to school and initiated a fire alarm and those 258 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: those little kids came out at that middle school and 259 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 1: these two guys were two kids were up on a 260 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: hillside and they began to open up and I saw 261 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: some connectivity. I've described this uh environment that that he 262 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: created as utter chaos, and that's what we're going to see. 263 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: That's what the police are currently seeing as they're working 264 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: this scene. And UH, Briber County is tops when it 265 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: comes to crimsing processing. They they're also being eighted by 266 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: that a t F as well as the FBI teams. UH. 267 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: And it is a gigantic juke saw puzzle. And if 268 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: I could just paint this picture very very quickly for you, UM. 269 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: One of the most striking things that that they're seeing 270 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: in the scene right now is a tremendous amount of 271 00:18:55,240 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: blood evidence. And it's not just individual puddles. Uh. You 272 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: have people that are bleeding out. You had mentioned earlier 273 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: that there was an image of a young, uh, motionless 274 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: child on the floor. UM. You will have people that 275 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: have stepped over her in a frenzy to get out. 276 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: You have people tracking blood everywhere. There will be a 277 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of blood spatter in the immediate areas, not 278 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: just on the floor. But on the walls. Um. And 279 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: then we have to think about the firearms evidence relative 280 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: to the expended brass, which are the little casings that 281 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: come out of this weapon. Not to mention the projectiles 282 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: that have passed through the bodies that have struck walls, 283 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: lodged in things, and they will literally find projectiles laying 284 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 1: on the floor. This takes us to a bigger picture 285 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: here because all of those people that have undergone surgery, uh, 286 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: you will have fragmented projectiles as well as intact projectiles 287 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: that they're recovering. I'm sure that the police are on 288 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: top of this. This is multi layered because these people 289 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: went to multi multiple hospitals, and then that brings us 290 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: course to the door the medical examiner. Uh, their day yesterday. 291 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: I've been involved in mass fatalities. You you might remember 292 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: the day Trader shooting in Atlanta, Nancy. It is utterly chaos. 293 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: Uh is. Sometimes you don't feel like that you're prepared 294 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: to deal with it, but somehow you muddle through and 295 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: you have to remain focused. And that's that's the case. 296 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: We don't have a guy that's gone out and has 297 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: essentially ended his life in this case where there's nothing 298 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: to prosecute. This is, as you well know, prosecutable, and 299 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: I can tell you they're going over the scene with 300 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: a fine tooth calm, and it is an absolute nightmare 301 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: to piece together. Take a listen to Brower County Sheriff 302 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: Scott Israel as he remembers the names of seventeen dead children, 303 00:20:52,600 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: Carmen Metal Pollock, Peter Wayne, Nicholas Warrette, Christopher Hickson, my 304 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: very very very special friend who all miss Aaron Fice, 305 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: Luke Hoyer, Allana Petty, Jamie Guttenberg, Martin Duquet and Guiano, 306 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: Melissa Alla Deaf, Helena Ramsey, Scott Bagel, Joaquin Oliver, Carol Offran, 307 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: Gina montal Too and Alexander Schapter. May they rest in 308 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: peace and may God comfort their families. I went to 309 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: pause right now and thank our sponsor making our investigation 310 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: with this panel of incredible experts as we investigate the 311 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: Florida shooting. Possible it's illegal zoom and as they say, 312 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: and they're totally correct. Small business is the hot topic 313 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: National Small Business Month at Legal Zoom. Perfect timing, whether 314 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,199 Speaker 1: you're just starting out or you already have a business. 315 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 1: Two thousand eighteen brings incredible opportunities new tax laws, including 316 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: big changes for business owners, the biggest in the last 317 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: thirty years. By the way, what does it mean to you? 318 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: Legal Zoom helps you understand what it means to you. 319 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: They are not a law firm. They are a nationwide 320 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: network of independent lawyers and tax professionals that can answer 321 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: your questions and put you on the right track to 322 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: start and run your business the right way. They draw 323 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: on sixteen years of experience to give business owners the 324 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: tools to start and run the business the right way. 325 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: Every day over the next week's find out how legal 326 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: zoom can help you during National Small Business Month, don't 327 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: miss this check out legal zoom dot com today special 328 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: savings when you Entercode Nancy and their referral box and 329 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: check out legal Zoom where a Life meets legal legal 330 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,479 Speaker 1: zoom dot com Thank you. As I traveled down one 331 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: of the back roads, it's a heavily residential area I 332 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: happened to come across. It was just just myself. There 333 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: was not a lot of people out, A couple of 334 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: people walking their dogs in the area. As I continued 335 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: down this roadway, uh I discovered an individual walking on 336 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: the sidewalk that was wearing the clothing description that had 337 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: been given over the radio. Uh. He looked like a 338 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: typical high school student. UH. And for a quick moment, 339 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: I thought, could this be the person? Is this who 340 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: I need to stop? Uh? Training kicked in. I pulled 341 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: my vehicle over, immediately engage the sub subspect. He complied 342 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: with my commands and UH was taken into custody without 343 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: any any issues. You just heard the officer who actually 344 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: apprehends Cruz describing how he found him and how he 345 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: did not resist. But take a listen now to a 346 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: high school football coach telling CNN about the assistant coach 347 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: and athletic director gunned down. The first part of my day, 348 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: He's gonna be terrible. And I don't see my buddy 349 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: at the gate. That's gonna be the hard part. And 350 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: then I'm gonna walk in my office and not see Chris, 351 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: who always said good morning to me. And that's gonna 352 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: be hard. Um. And I'm sure it's gonna be hard 353 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: for all of us, you know. Um, they don't know. 354 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: But do the best we can to ask you will. 355 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: Caught child advocate and lawyer Ashley. I can already see 356 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: the defense shaping up and this is where a mental 357 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: defense comes from. In my experience from the courtroom. If 358 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: you're not caught red handed, you'll say I didn't do it. 359 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: If you're caught with DNA, for instance, you'll say, okay, uh, 360 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: I was there, but I didn't do it. You don't 361 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: have a video. If you have DNA and a video 362 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: and witnesses, you say I was insane. I did it, 363 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: but I didn't know what I was doing. That's how 364 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: that shakes out. Look, I know this guy has problems, 365 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: I know that, but that is not insanity under the 366 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: legal sense of the word. This was pre meditated. I mean, Ashley, 367 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: did you know he specifically went to multiple floors, multiple levels, 368 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: as if you were targeting specific people. That's not crazy, 369 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: that's easy, like a fox. That's right. And the way 370 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: that you can prove that it was premeditated in this 371 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: specific case is look at all of his social media 372 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: posts and the um specific details about him planning this 373 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: crime and telling everybody this is what I'm gonna do. 374 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: And there's a picture with multiple guns in it that 375 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: he had. There's one of him holding in his hand 376 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: a gun, and all the details that he dribbled along 377 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: the way to say, this is exactly what I'm gonna do, 378 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be a professional school shooter. The other 379 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: thing I want to add, and it's what bothers me 380 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: I have seen. I was appointed by the Governor's an 381 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: Oversight Agency UM for abuse and neglect cases. And here's 382 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: what I would see over and over and over again. 383 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: When somebody rolls up to report or to investigate on 384 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: a report and they see a nice house, as you've described, 385 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: well manicured, socioeconomic doesn't appear to be an issue because 386 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: the parents have worked their butts off to provide for children. Now, 387 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: guess what, those reports are not taken as seriously because 388 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: of that. And that's sad but true. And so in 389 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: this case there have been what did you say, thirty 390 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: nine responses responding to law enforcement having to go to 391 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: that house. When they roll up on a house like that, 392 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,239 Speaker 1: I do not believe they're going to take it as 393 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: seriously as they should. And I know it doesn't mean 394 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: there's not a problem when you roll up to a 395 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: house like that, as you're describing it, but it also 396 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: means that you, I guess instinctively think, well, if they 397 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: care enough about their home and their law and all that. 398 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: Then I they should be caring about the children. But 399 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: the thing is this was not internally generated such as 400 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: attacks on the mom. These were him, him harassing neighbors, 401 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: elderly neighbors, all sorts of neighbors. I don't know what 402 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: Elsie did, but thirty nine reports actually will cut with 403 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: me back to David Kat's CEO of Global Security Group 404 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: and Active Shooter Response expert former d e A. David, 405 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: you know, I know you don't always have somebody to blame. 406 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: There's not always an answer, okay, but I'm looking for 407 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: the answer. I'm searching for the answer as to why 408 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: why am I doing that? I don't know. Maybe it's 409 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: because if I know the answer, somehow it won't happen again. 410 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: We can stop it from happening again if we understand why. 411 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: But here there's so many things, David, thirty nine police reports, 412 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: no arrest ever, kicked out of two schools, expelled from 413 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: this school, starting fights at school online, threatening to be 414 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: a school shooter, reported to the FBI. I mean this morning, David, 415 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: I swear I would be out of my skin if 416 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: I were one of those parents and my child is 417 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: dead at cool in the floor in a pool of blood, 418 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: and the FBI knew about it six months ago. There 419 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: is there is no way to look at this case 420 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: and say anything other than there there was laps at 421 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: every single juncture. I mean, this is a kid where 422 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: school officials said, okay, you can't bring a backpack onto 423 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: school grounds because we think you're going to carry a 424 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: firearms and there's there's no police follow up. My god, 425 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: you can. That's gonna shake out as to what happened, 426 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: what was not done, and what and what apparently was 427 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: was the reason that he wasn't called and prosecuted. But 428 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: on on the procedural level, to um one of your guests, 429 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: to give me I missed the name mentioned the pulling 430 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,479 Speaker 1: of the fire alarm. One thing that that I mean 431 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: New York for the last fifty years. Thing that that 432 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: is that is written in stone. You do not evacuate 433 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: upon alarm. The alarm is meant to alert somebody, some 434 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: central person who's going to run the emergency. They're going 435 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: to make a determination if it's if it isn't, maybe 436 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: it's a false alarm, maybe it's found it alarm. But 437 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: they're going to direct you the fact that that ever 438 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: you see this all over the country. People are still trained. 439 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: You hear that alarm, you go. That's why he was 440 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: able to pull that alarm, even he knew the procedures 441 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: in that school. He knew the kids would hear the alarm, 442 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: empty the rooms, go into the hallway. And that's one 443 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: reason why why he was able to engage and kill 444 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: so many people. But you can go through every single aspect, 445 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: whether whether it was the warning signs, the failure to 446 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: WAW enforcement, the failure of the school to have to 447 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: have access control, the failure of the school to properly 448 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: train these students, and how to respond these incidents. This 449 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: this is the textbook how to do every single thing 450 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: wrong and we see the results. I mean, how could 451 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: the FBI fix themselves? Rob Hessel, author of Safe City, 452 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: From law Enforcement to neighborhood Watches. How could they say 453 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: we couldn't identify him? What, there's his picture, his face 454 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: and his real name. Hello, of course they could identify him. Yeah, 455 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know how the FBI could say 456 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: they couldn't identify him. And even further and kind of 457 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: pigging backing off what David just said, there's been so 458 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: many advances in technology UM and for for the schools, 459 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: I think it brings up the conversation about open campuses 460 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: and the security on the schools. There's so many different 461 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: technologies that can be deployed to help recognize threats, facial 462 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: recognition software UM, and then to the point of pulling 463 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: a fire alarm and having people evacuated, there are systems 464 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: out there that have been created to override a fire 465 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: alarm system and communicate to the teachers and for students 466 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: in real time the actions that they need to take 467 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: to keep themselves safe. So I think we've got a 468 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: lot of things that we need to look at from 469 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: how we're responding to different threats inside of the school systems. 470 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: And I think, as as you just said, there's gonna 471 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: be some definite fall out of how this kid was 472 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: able to go under the radar after he'd been reported 473 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: so many different times. Take a listen to Drew Griffin 474 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: CNN describing the warning signs about Nicholas Cruz. The warning 475 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: signs were all there in person and on social media, 476 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: photos of guns, knives, extremist comments posted under political videos. 477 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: I want to shoot people with my a R fifteen. 478 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: That quote attached to a YouTube video of a Donald 479 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: Trump's supporter being pushed around at a rally. Under a 480 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: video about Antifa, he posted, f Antifa, I wish to 481 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: kill as many as I can, and I'm going to 482 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: kill them in the future. And the comment that prompted 483 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: a call to the FBI, he wrote, I'm going to 484 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: be a professional school shooter. Ben Benight contacted the FBI 485 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: when he saw that post. They came out from my 486 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: office the very next morning in person and met with 487 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: men and those who knew. The shooter said his life 488 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: was filled with trouble. This video from a neighbor shows 489 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: him brandishing what looks like a pellet gun. He was 490 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: expelled from school, obsessed with guns, and when his adopted 491 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: mother died in November, he ended up with no place 492 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: to live. The family of a friend took him in. 493 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: Their lawyer said he didn't get up as usual yesterday, 494 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: but they had no idea what was about to happen 495 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: to John Limley Crime Stories investigative reporter joining us John, 496 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: I was watching the court proceeding for his first appearance. 497 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: What exactly was the purpose of him being in court 498 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: in the last hours and what did you observe John Limley. 499 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: In his first court appearance yesterday, facing seventeen counts of 500 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: premeditated murder, CRUs mostly looked down at his hands and 501 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: just answered in a low voice to the questions that 502 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: the judge asked him. His attorneys did not specifically say 503 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: that he had confessed to the shooting, nor did they 504 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: explicitly deny his involvement, describing him as a broken young man. 505 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:08,399 Speaker 1: Investigators already have interviewed more than two thousand people as 506 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: a part of the probe and hope to speak to 507 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: unnamed others who might enlighten them to exactly what happened. 508 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: There are new details emerging about cruises movements on Wednesday, UH. 509 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: These from court documents and even what we're hearing from 510 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: police officials. Cruise took an Uber vehicle to the school. 511 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: Police have said that he was wearing a black backpack 512 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: and carrying a black Duffel bag. A staffer at the 513 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: school actually recognized Cruise and radioed a co worker to 514 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,919 Speaker 1: say that Cruise was walking towards what is known as 515 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: the Freshman Building on the campus. Within a minute, UH, 516 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: gunshots were heard and a code read was announced as 517 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: an emergency. Police say Cruise began firing into a series 518 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: of rooms on the second floor, returning actually going back 519 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,879 Speaker 1: to two of those two pump more rounds at these 520 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: huddle terrified teachers and students. Crews then went up the stairs, 521 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: allegedly firing at another room as he traveled through the 522 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: school building. Then, as students began to flee, police say 523 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,879 Speaker 1: Cruiz dumped his rifle and a bag of extra ammunition 524 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: and joined the others trying to blend in as everyone 525 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: ran from this building on campus. Back to David Kat, 526 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: CEO Global Security Group, what does that mean to you, David, Well, 527 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's a lot of things that we 528 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: just mentioned too that one of the things going back 529 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: to the same room multiple times that happened to Vision 530 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: to Tech, so that's not uncommon. The bunch of things 531 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: that that stand out. Number one, as a former student, 532 00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 1: he knew how to gain access to the building. Number two, 533 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: he knew that by pulling the fire along, he he 534 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: knew exactly the response. Number Three, he knew that there 535 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: there is a protocol in place that probably he was 536 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: able to exploit because of his knowledge of the procedures 537 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 1: enabled to and able to gain access to potential victims 538 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 1: before they could react. You know, there's a there's a 539 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: bunch of things that that I mean here in New 540 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: York City, for example, the NYPD, the Fire Apartment, they've 541 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: mandated actor shooter response and high rise buildings in in UH, 542 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: public assembly venues and hotels. In addition, their school mandates 543 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: and everything that we teach, every bit of the curriculum 544 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: is exactly diametrically opposed to what was done in this case. 545 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: So I mean, I mean, if you look at all 546 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: the details as they emerged, you're going to find for 547 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: for some inexplicable reason, none of the recommended protocols are 548 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 1: being followed. And I just I just this second, I 549 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: saw an up date that Scott Israel, the sheriff down there, 550 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: is calling the topper tepper gun control laws. My god, 551 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: the guy had at thirty nine encounters with the police 552 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: that we know of, probably farm more than that, and 553 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: all the history at the school and more topper gun 554 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 1: control laws. Do your job, make a case locked the 555 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: kid up. If he had a felony conviction, he doesn't 556 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: buy the gun, this doesn't happen, or at least if 557 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: he does buy a gun, it's much more difficult and 558 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: simply walking through the store and plugging down, sucking down 559 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: his credit card. I want you to take a listen 560 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: to what a neighbor, Rhonda Roxboro tell seeing in about 561 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 1: cruises behavior. Listen. The first time I had any run 562 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: ins with him was in about and he actually slammed 563 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: his backpack into my car door, which you know. I 564 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: got out and approached him and asked him, you know, 565 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: why did you do that? Why did he, you know, 566 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: try to damage the car. He wouldn't look at me. 567 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: He was giggling and so, you know, mischievous boy. So 568 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: I confronted him directly. You confronted him on the street, Yes, yes, 569 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 1: I did, and I'll tell you the He didn't want 570 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: to answer anything. He had a very cold stare. He 571 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,320 Speaker 1: couldn't care less. Did he have other interactions like this 572 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: with with with other neighbors, other kids in the in 573 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:29,800 Speaker 1: the neighborhood. He did, He did. Um, he gotten in 574 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: several fights with kids throughout the neighborhood. One he bit 575 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: his ear and injured him his ear. Other kids also, Yes, yes, 576 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: he got in a fight with several kids in the neighborhood. 577 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: And I didn't physically see that, but um, I heard 578 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: about it. But also I did see him with a 579 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: pellet gun and there was you know, there were squirrels 580 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: that he was shooting killing. There was cats that were missing, 581 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,800 Speaker 1: um in the name hood as well. There was that 582 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: he had killed the cats of these animals. Yeah, this 583 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 1: is what you know, This was floating around the neighborhood. 584 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: I can't confirm that I did not see that, you know, um, 585 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: but I know that I saw him with a pellet 586 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: gun and um, you know, there were animals that were 587 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:27,320 Speaker 1: dead throughout the neighborhood. To Brian Levin, director of the 588 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism in San Bernardino, Brian, 589 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 1: we are hearing about the way many neighbors called police 590 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: about animal cruelty, about he would attack neighbors, harass neighbors. 591 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 1: Yet never has David Kats and John Linelee pointed out, 592 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: was there and arrest. I know you deal with specific 593 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:57,280 Speaker 1: groups regarding hate and extremism, but this really, these repeated 594 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,319 Speaker 1: acts of hatred. Are you surprised at what you were 595 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: hearing from the neighbors. You just heard a neighbor speaking 596 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: out and that a hate group would claim him as 597 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:15,759 Speaker 1: their own. Well, let's let's let's UH bifurcate this and 598 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:22,439 Speaker 1: approach the first one. UM, there are many instances where 599 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: young people UH get into fights and also harass animals. 600 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: But to get to this level of this number of 601 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:38,399 Speaker 1: times and the fact that animals have been killed, even 602 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:45,800 Speaker 1: though UH in many instances UH children either get treatment 603 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: or the outgrow some of these things, clearly this is 604 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 1: someone who had some profound type of behavioral disorder, possibly 605 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,320 Speaker 1: going into something worse. I'm not a diagnostician, but bottom 606 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: line is you don't have thought that they were just 607 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: playing out main and evil. I mean every time UH 608 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,359 Speaker 1: that someone does an evil act, that does not mean 609 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: that they have a mental defect or they are mentally ill. 610 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,240 Speaker 1: If you look at serial and spree killers throughout history, 611 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: you will see that many of them started as youth torturing, 612 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: dismembering and killing animals just like this guy. Absolutely. The 613 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 1: only thing is a dear friend of mine, Jack Levin 614 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,759 Speaker 1: no relation, one time told me when I said the 615 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,879 Speaker 1: same thing. This is many years ago when we both 616 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: were younger, But I look older, you don't, which is 617 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: a will will do that for another time, but in 618 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 1: any event, yes, many of these types of killers have 619 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: had those kind of precursors. The only thing is um, 620 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: many more people have done similar things and have not 621 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: advanced with their uh, their their violent behavior. So it's 622 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,800 Speaker 1: one of those things where it's both over inclusive and 623 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: under inclusive. In other words, we see this kind of 624 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 1: behavior with respect to men who go into violence, but 625 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 1: we also see for many uh, particularly when it's not 626 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: as egregious as we've seen in this case. UH. I 627 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: know you're making a point. What would it be? The 628 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: point would be that there should have been follow up. 629 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,279 Speaker 1: Well said to John Limley, I'm reading about all the 630 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: acts of heroism. One coach dies trying to save other people, 631 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: one math teacher, and Miss Shanty this one ofthon known 632 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: as Miss V to her students. When she heard a 633 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 1: second fire alarm that day, she knew something was wrong. 634 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: They had had a fire drill earlier that morning. Instead 635 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,719 Speaker 1: of letting her students out of algebra, she made them 636 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 1: all get down on the floor in the corner of 637 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: the room, put paper over the windows so nobody could 638 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:12,320 Speaker 1: see in and see the students siding, And she wouldn't 639 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: even let the swat team in. John. They had to 640 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,879 Speaker 1: come in through the windows because she would not let 641 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: them in. She didn't note for sure it was a 642 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: swat team for real, John exactly and another teacher, Scott Bigel, 643 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: a geography teacher, was killed as he was trying to 644 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: usher students back into his classroom when the shooting broke out. 645 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: One of the students told CNN that he was shot 646 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: outside the classroom door right after he locked all of 647 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 1: the students in um. It's stories like this that make 648 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: all of this all the more heartbreaking. One detailed that 649 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 1: has emerged in just the past several hours is one 650 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 1: about Mr Crewe's at home that morning Wednesday morning. On 651 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,399 Speaker 1: most average weekday mornings, UH, he had been going back 652 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,959 Speaker 1: to classes since he had been expelled, uh to maybe 653 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: get his g e D. And he usually got up 654 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: to catch a ride to the adult education courses that 655 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: the family he had stayed with after his mother's death 656 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: last year had encouraged him to attend. Mr Lewis Uh 657 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 1: this is the family's lawyer, Jim Lewis, said that Mr 658 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 1: Cruz explained his reluctance that morning to get up by 659 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,400 Speaker 1: saying something to the effect of it's Valentine's Day, I 660 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: don't go to school on Valentine's Day. He had been 661 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,279 Speaker 1: staying with the Sneed family since November, the month of 662 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 1: his mother's death. Mr Lewis, the attorney, said that the 663 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,800 Speaker 1: family had seen signs of depression in Mr Cruz, but 664 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,800 Speaker 1: nothing indicated that he was capable of this kind of violence. 665 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: An interest note, a chilling note. The family had allowed 666 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,759 Speaker 1: Nicholas Cruz to bring his gun with him to their house, 667 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 1: insisting that he keep it in a lockbox. We also 668 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 1: are hearing from a mom who reveals her daughter, a 669 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 1: basketball player, is one of the two survivors in critical 670 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: condition right now. She says gunshots went through her back, 671 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:27,440 Speaker 1: crushing her ribs and exiting her stomach. It's Maddie Wilford 672 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: High School Jr. She was hit multiple times in the attack. 673 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 1: Her mom, Missy, posted a status of her daughter's condition, 674 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:45,279 Speaker 1: urging people to pray for Maddie and God knows. We 675 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: are praying for the Lord to comfort these families and 676 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 1: heal the children that are sick and in the hospital 677 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,839 Speaker 1: and hurting now both their bodies, their minds, and their 678 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 1: old Karen Stark, New York psychologists joining us. I keep 679 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:10,760 Speaker 1: thinking about the bodies are their friends lying in the floor, dead, 680 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,320 Speaker 1: impulse of blood, and the children running out and stepping 681 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: over and around the bodies. You know they're going to 682 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:25,000 Speaker 1: remember that the rest of their life, just like you are, Nancy, 683 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 1: just like I am, and all of us here today. 684 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,759 Speaker 1: Those images never leave, and they will need a lot 685 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,000 Speaker 1: of help to be able to cope with the fact 686 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 1: that that trauma has been so violent and vivid. Everyone 687 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,440 Speaker 1: will need a lot of counseling and support with this, 688 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:51,160 Speaker 1: particularly since it was so apparent that this was a 689 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 1: boy who wanted violence, who he sought it. He let 690 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 1: people know that he wanted to bring it done to school. 691 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 1: It was nothing mysterious about what was on his mind. 692 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 1: This one girl that that lived, Maddie, is right now 693 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,759 Speaker 1: in her third surgery getting a permanent titanium plate put 694 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,719 Speaker 1: in her body to hold her ribs together. This young 695 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,319 Speaker 1: basketball star had a bullet run down the full length 696 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:25,640 Speaker 1: of her right arm. As horrible as it sounds, she's alive. 697 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,719 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Do you believe, Joe Scott that these 698 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:36,080 Speaker 1: students were killed instantly or were they conscious as they 699 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,239 Speaker 1: bled out on the floor as all of their friends, classmates, 700 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,800 Speaker 1: people that didn't know jumped over and around them to 701 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,560 Speaker 1: get out. No, they were not killed instantly. I'm sure 702 00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,800 Speaker 1: that some of them probably were, but not every single 703 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,120 Speaker 1: one of them. That's that's this. This is not TV. 704 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,719 Speaker 1: It doesn't happen like that. This is a a long 705 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:04,200 Speaker 1: languishing death. In many cases, particularly people are shot in 706 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,319 Speaker 1: the abdmin they do bleed out, you have a long 707 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: period of time trying to clear the building. People are terrified. 708 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,680 Speaker 1: That goes back to the the chaos in this circumstance. 709 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,680 Speaker 1: But I want to take you back somewhere else, Nancy. 710 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,239 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about the Broward County Medical Examiner's 711 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:23,359 Speaker 1: Office and when those people walked in that worked there 712 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:27,000 Speaker 1: that day there yesterday, there was there would be a 713 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:31,040 Speaker 1: long line of body bags containing bodies, and each one 714 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,279 Speaker 1: of those people have a name, and each one of 715 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:37,719 Speaker 1: those people have been traumatized um And one of the 716 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,520 Speaker 1: things that's done at the Medical Examiner's office is that 717 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,880 Speaker 1: toxicology has taken on each and every person when an 718 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,520 Speaker 1: autopsy is performed. And every one of these people were 719 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,120 Speaker 1: autopsy there homicide victims. You know who I want to 720 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,360 Speaker 1: see toxicology on. I want to see toxicology on Cruis. 721 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,600 Speaker 1: That's what I want to see. I want to know 722 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,360 Speaker 1: what poisons were in his system, because there is a 723 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:06,200 Speaker 1: consistent thread that is running through all of these shootings 724 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 1: going back to Clee Bolton Harris. Things that I won't 725 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,160 Speaker 1: mention brand names, but medications that these people are on, 726 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:18,480 Speaker 1: and they're not being maintained when they take these medications. 727 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,879 Speaker 1: They're just kind of handed out like candy, and they're 728 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,239 Speaker 1: ripping a lot of these people's brains to shreds. Uh. 729 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,560 Speaker 1: It's not an excuse for what he did, because he's 730 00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:33,799 Speaker 1: obviously planned this out. But I guarantee you UM people 731 00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,920 Speaker 1: want to pass out blame for these events. I see. Uh. 732 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,640 Speaker 1: I see a lot of blood on the hands of 733 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:46,040 Speaker 1: people in UM, in the medical community that are passing 734 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:50,120 Speaker 1: this up. Another thing I want to figure out. Two. Uh, 735 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,920 Speaker 1: we have such a great panel of experts. Rob Hessel, 736 00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,560 Speaker 1: you talk, you specialized in hardening targets. This school didn't 737 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,400 Speaker 1: have the doors locked. It was a quote open campus 738 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,480 Speaker 1: to my understanding. If I'm wrong, John Linely jump in, 739 00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:10,120 Speaker 1: but I mean much locked down school where they locked 740 00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,680 Speaker 1: the doors. And that's the way I like it. It's 741 00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,319 Speaker 1: locked this any any idiot can walk in that all 742 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:22,919 Speaker 1: the teachers saw the guy walking in. Rob Hessel, Yeah, 743 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,839 Speaker 1: I think it definitely raises the conversation about an open 744 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 1: campus environment. I mean, um, in my office, which is 745 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,960 Speaker 1: a commercial business twenty four hours a day, you cannot 746 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,040 Speaker 1: just walk into my office during business hours. It's a 747 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,000 Speaker 1: locked office environment so that we can identify who's trying 748 00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,560 Speaker 1: to enter our building to keep our employees safe. So 749 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,799 Speaker 1: for a campus to be an open environment, I think 750 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,600 Speaker 1: we really need to take a look at that. I 751 00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 1: think our campuses need to be locked down. Kids and 752 00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,200 Speaker 1: the faculty. We lock our homes at night. If we've 753 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,480 Speaker 1: got half a brain, why don't you lock your children 754 00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:58,000 Speaker 1: in during the day? To Rob Hessel, Brian Levin and 755 00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:03,879 Speaker 1: David Kats another issue to you, uh, David Katz? Why 756 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,040 Speaker 1: is everyone now making a big deal about the hat? 757 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,520 Speaker 1: He was wearing a Make America Great? Hat? Did am 758 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,280 Speaker 1: I missing something? What is the significance of him wearing 759 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,680 Speaker 1: that hat when he was target practicing in the backyard. 760 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 1: That's something that's just another you know that. Remember, I 761 00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,359 Speaker 1: think there was a knee jerk political response on both 762 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,560 Speaker 1: sides initially the reports that he was a dreamer because 763 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:29,400 Speaker 1: of the last name Cruise and they kicked and other 764 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,200 Speaker 1: people kicked back. He was a white supremacist. I hear you. 765 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:38,120 Speaker 1: Everybody's looking for somebody to lash out at. In my mind, 766 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 1: there's so many red flags. The school knew, the teacher 767 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:48,000 Speaker 1: saw him walk in, the FBI knew, there were thirty 768 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,800 Speaker 1: nine arrest reports. I mean, what more could he do 769 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,120 Speaker 1: besides take out a billboard on Park Ave and he's saying, 770 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,359 Speaker 1: I'm going to shoot up my school? Well, I mean, 771 00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:02,360 Speaker 1: what else could he do? You're exactly right, and we 772 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,359 Speaker 1: we always I mean, how many times do you here 773 00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,600 Speaker 1: see something, say something, report to get involved what they did, 774 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: and no action was taken. I mean, you can't. It 775 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,160 Speaker 1: is incomprehensible to me that with all these signs, this guy, 776 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,520 Speaker 1: this guy was not was not in the system. And 777 00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,399 Speaker 1: you know, and now looking back, you know, I think 778 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,719 Speaker 1: I think if I had a guess, no one, no 779 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:26,840 Speaker 1: one in the FBI wrote a report on it. And 780 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:28,880 Speaker 1: that's why later on now they're kind of trying to 781 00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,960 Speaker 1: backtrack and they make the phone call to the the 782 00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 1: person who initially made that made that uh complaining call 783 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,040 Speaker 1: to the the FBI and talked to that person because 784 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,080 Speaker 1: I think there was no action, and that's and that's 785 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:41,680 Speaker 1: going to be a problem for them. This is not 786 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:46,719 Speaker 1: just a story. This is not just fuel for the 787 00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:51,400 Speaker 1: four hour cable shows and the radio and the print. 788 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:58,480 Speaker 1: This is real. Listen to this. Mother, Lori l hadus 789 00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:03,600 Speaker 1: My daughter, Lissa ald was a beautiful young lady. Yesterday 790 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,360 Speaker 1: on Valentine's Day, I dropped her off at school and 791 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,680 Speaker 1: I said I love you. And then a few hours later, 792 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,880 Speaker 1: I get a call that there's a shooter at Stoneman 793 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,120 Speaker 1: Douglas High School. And I ran as fast as I 794 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,400 Speaker 1: could to get there, and I knew at that point 795 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,200 Speaker 1: she was gone. I felt it in my heart. How 796 00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,480 Speaker 1: how do we allow a gunman to come into our 797 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:29,160 Speaker 1: children's school? How did they get through security? What security 798 00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:34,040 Speaker 1: is there? There's no metal detectors, the gunmen. A crazy 799 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,759 Speaker 1: person just walks right into the school, knocks down the 800 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,680 Speaker 1: window of my child's door and starts shooting, shooting her 801 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:49,319 Speaker 1: and killing her. Nancy Chris christ Joys signing enough did 802 00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:49,960 Speaker 1: that happen?