Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: So in the coming days, the European Union is set
Speaker 2: to move forward with its plan for a European Democracy
Speaker 2: Shield and initiative designed to counter foreign disinformation and interference.
Speaker 2: Joining me now to discuss the EASE Commissioner for Democracy, Justice,
Speaker 2: the rule of Law and consider Protection. Michael McGrath is
Speaker 2: with us in the Brussels studio. Commissioner, good morning, Good morning,
Speaker 2: let's talk about the goals of this project. The details
Speaker 2: are going to the Commission to be adopted tomorrow. What
Speaker 2: exactly are you trying to combat with the Democracy Shield?
Speaker 2: Is this just about Russia.
Speaker 1: We're looking to protect one of the most precious things
Speaker 1: we have in the European Union, and that is our democracy.
Speaker 1: It has been hard won. There are many member states
Speaker 1: of the European Union that just thirty five years ago
Speaker 1: were not democracies. We need to ensure that our elections
Speaker 1: are free and fair, that they are free from any
Speaker 1: external or indeed internal interfering. And fundamentally, what we are
Speaker 1: seeking to achieve here is that European citizens can exercise
Speaker 1: their democratic entitlement in free and fair elections and in
Speaker 1: a manner that is not subject to any interference, and
Speaker 1: so that's why we will be proposing, for example, the
Speaker 1: European Center for Democratic Resilience that President vander Lyine first
Speaker 1: announced in her State of the Union addressed back in September.
Speaker 1: And we'll be fleshing out in a little more detail
Speaker 1: tomorrow when we publish the proposals the precise role of
Speaker 1: this new center. But overall, it is going to be
Speaker 1: a multifaceted approach because we have to protect the foundations
Speaker 1: of democracy. That means investing in a free and independent
Speaker 1: and plural media sector. It's also about supporting our civil society,
Speaker 1: but also ensuring that our citizens are giving given the
Speaker 1: tools that they need to navigate what is a very
Speaker 1: complex information environment at the moment. So investment in media literacy, literacy,
Speaker 1: supporting our citizens in accessing the information that they need
Speaker 1: to make up their own mind about who they wish
Speaker 1: to have represent them at a local, national, and indeed
Speaker 1: the European level.
Speaker 2: And will it be a plan with teeth. I mean
Speaker 2: we're talking about information that can be spread across for example,
Speaker 2: social media. Is this something that's going to lead to
Speaker 2: more European regulation against social media platforms?
Speaker 1: But we already have an extensive body of regulation and
Speaker 1: the toolbox there that we can use. For example, the
Speaker 1: Digital Services Act imposes quite strict obligations on the in
Speaker 1: scope platforms in relation to protecting electoral integrity and making
Speaker 1: sure that the content that is disseminated on their platforms
Speaker 1: does not in any way impact negatively on the integrity
Speaker 1: of the electoral processes. Within the European Union, we also
Speaker 1: have the AI Act, which is progressively coming into force.
Speaker 1: What we are going to propose tomorrow will very much
Speaker 1: complement the existing legislative toolbox that we have, but it
Speaker 1: will provide more capacity in bandwidth and what this new
Speaker 1: center will do essentially is coordinate the work that is
Speaker 1: happening between the EU institutions, the members, state authorities, and
Speaker 1: other stakeholders to monitor, to detect, and to respond to
Speaker 1: any incidences of foreign information, manipulation, interference and disinformation. So
Speaker 1: we look forward to rolling this out and it is
Speaker 1: fundamentally about ensuring that our citizens own our democracy and
Speaker 1: that they can exercise their franchise in a free and
Speaker 1: fair manner.
Speaker 2: Okay, turning to others ses now you're just back from
Speaker 2: a trip to China. There's plenty to talk about in
Speaker 2: the EU China relationship, but I just wondered, given the
Speaker 2: story that we're reporting this morning about the European Commission
Speaker 2: considering forcing member states to phase out the use of
Speaker 2: technology from the Chinese companies Huawei and z T. I
Speaker 2: know this isn't specifically something that relates to your portfolio,
Speaker 2: but do those security concerns, I mean, are they weighing
Speaker 2: heavily on the Chinese relationship? Does this speak to the
Speaker 2: EU tightening the screws on some of their relationship with China.
Speaker 1: Look, we want to have a positive relationship with the
Speaker 1: Chinese authorities. I had a very good visit there last
Speaker 1: week where the focus was on consumer protection and product safety,
Speaker 1: and we're engaged directly with a number of ministers in
Speaker 1: the Chinese government, with the authorities, and indeed with companies
Speaker 1: directly as well, and as part of an overall relationship
Speaker 1: between the EU and China. We have a trading relationship
Speaker 1: at the moment that is quite unbalanced in favor of China.
Speaker 1: So that's why issues like market access barriers for European
Speaker 1: companies within the Chinese market is a key issue for US.
Speaker 1: China is a partner but also a systemic rival and
Speaker 1: indeed a competitor of the European Union. And so my
Speaker 1: visit was building on the summit that took place back
Speaker 1: in July that President Vanderline attended in China. And the
Speaker 1: issue that you've raised is not something I can comment
Speaker 1: on in any detail because no decision has been made.
Speaker 2: Okay, well speaking, you are the first Commissioner to go
Speaker 2: to China since that summit in July as well, and
Speaker 2: since then we've had developments, particularly relating to e commerce platforms.
Speaker 2: We're looking at the investigation happening in France in a
Speaker 2: relation to illegal products being sold by SHE, and they've
Speaker 2: also been looking at Team You as well. What is
Speaker 2: the EU going to do about France's complaint when it
Speaker 2: comes to SHE, and that's something they've written to the
Speaker 2: EU about.
Speaker 1: But we're in very close contact with the French authorities.
Speaker 1: We have at an EU level quite a powerful set
Speaker 1: of tools already, and there are ongoing actions against a
Speaker 1: number of the e commerce platforms, including those that you mentioned.
Speaker 1: So there are clear obligations under the Digital Services Act
Speaker 1: in relation to the dissemination of illegal product online and
Speaker 1: we're not going to tolerate that within the European Union.
Speaker 1: The overall message is clear. If you want to sell
Speaker 1: into the European market, and it's a very lucrative and
Speaker 1: a very good market for e commerce platforms to sell into,
Speaker 1: you must respect EU consumer protection rules and indeed our
Speaker 1: product safety standards as well. Non compliance is not an option,
Speaker 1: and that was the clear message that I conveyed in
Speaker 1: my visit last week to China. So the report that
Speaker 1: emerged last week of these childlike sex dolls that were
Speaker 1: available on at least one and I understand more platforms
Speaker 1: is something that is completely unacceptable and we will not
Speaker 1: tolerate that within the European market.
Speaker 2: Will there be new action against CN over that.
Speaker 1: Well, there are already actions underway, and the French authorities
Speaker 1: have launched their own investigation and we are remaining in
Speaker 1: contact with them. But already at an EU level, there
Speaker 1: is an action underway in the context of the DSA
Speaker 1: relating to illegal products on the platform, and so that
Speaker 1: has to take its course and it will do. But
Speaker 1: we have powerful instruments, we stand ready to use them.
Speaker 1: We have to allow you process and allow counterparties the
Speaker 1: right to respond and to address any claims that we're making,
Speaker 1: but we will bring this to a conclusion and we
Speaker 1: will ensure that such products have no place in the
Speaker 1: European market and will not be contenance.
Speaker 2: Is the Digital Services Act strong enough to help deal
Speaker 2: with the e commerce platforms? Is it adapted to dealing
Speaker 2: with those particular type of companies.
Speaker 1: The Digital Services Act is a very powerful tool and
Speaker 1: we are using it. It is my view that the
Speaker 1: main body of consumer protection law that we have within
Speaker 1: the European Union, that's the Consumer Protection Regulation as such
Speaker 1: that we do need to strength that, we need to
Speaker 1: give the Commission a greater role in investigating and enforcing
Speaker 1: consumer protection laws more generally, because the DSA only covers
Speaker 1: certain inscore platforms, and then it only covers them to
Speaker 1: the extent of the reach of the consumer protection element.
Speaker 1: Within the DSA, there's a wider body of consumer protection
Speaker 1: law which currently falls to the national authorities to implement,
Speaker 1: and there are different capacities to be frank around the
Speaker 1: European Union on that question, and that's why I am
Speaker 1: proposing that the European Commission would take on a greater
Speaker 1: role and be given more teeth to take on these issues,
Speaker 1: not just against the very large platforms, but against any
Speaker 1: other e commerce retailers that flout the.
Speaker 2: EU rules because are you seeing some of those platforms
Speaker 2: being able to get around national authorities.
Speaker 1: But the national authorities have different capabilities and they are
Speaker 1: resourced to a different extent. And at the moment where
Speaker 1: there is a coordinated CPC action consumer Protection Cooperation action,
Speaker 1: we coordinated centrally within the Commission, but it is led
Speaker 1: by the individual national authorities and very often the outcome
Speaker 1: is that the harm is stopped, rather than there being
Speaker 1: an actual penalty and a disincentive to repeating such behavior
Speaker 1: in the future. And I think we do need to
Speaker 1: have a stick where EU rules are being broken, because
Speaker 1: consumers have to be protected and product safety is not
Speaker 1: just a bureaucratic obligation. It's about protecting EU citizens from
Speaker 1: real harm that can actually lead to death.
Speaker 2: Because there is a question of some of the investigations
Speaker 2: that have been launched into the DSA, there's a series
Speaker 2: of them against those big platforms and still no formal outcomes.
Speaker 2: Should we be expecting results from those investigations. Soon there
Speaker 2: will be results, and the results will emerge quite shortly.
Speaker 2: We do have to ensure that your processes followed, because
Speaker 2: as night follows day and the adverse finding by the
Speaker 2: European Commission against an INSCO platform under the ESA is
Speaker 2: going to be most likely challenged, and we have to
Speaker 2: make sure that our process is robust, but.
Speaker 1: We do also have to ensure that it comes to
Speaker 1: a conclusion, and I believe that a number of them
Speaker 1: will shortly.
Speaker 2: Okay, Michael mcgrat you, Justice Commissioner, thank you very much
Speaker 2: for joining us in studio this morning, just because all
Speaker 2: of those various issues