WEBVTT - EU's McGrath Talks Shein Probe, Consumer Protection

0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:07.040
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:09.480
<v Speaker 2>So in the coming days, the European Union is set

0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.280
<v Speaker 2>to move forward with its plan for a European Democracy

0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Shield and initiative designed to counter foreign disinformation and interference.

0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.560
<v Speaker 2>Joining me now to discuss the EASE Commissioner for Democracy, Justice,

0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:21.640
<v Speaker 2>the rule of Law and consider Protection. Michael McGrath is

0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.400
<v Speaker 2>with us in the Brussels studio. Commissioner, good morning, Good morning,

0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:27.720
<v Speaker 2>let's talk about the goals of this project. The details

0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.400
<v Speaker 2>are going to the Commission to be adopted tomorrow. What

0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.479
<v Speaker 2>exactly are you trying to combat with the Democracy Shield?

0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Is this just about Russia.

0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:39.040
<v Speaker 1>We're looking to protect one of the most precious things

0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.480
<v Speaker 1>we have in the European Union, and that is our democracy.

0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.840
<v Speaker 1>It has been hard won. There are many member states

0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:48.559
<v Speaker 1>of the European Union that just thirty five years ago

0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:53.360
<v Speaker 1>were not democracies. We need to ensure that our elections

0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.960
<v Speaker 1>are free and fair, that they are free from any

0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:01.760
<v Speaker 1>external or indeed internal interfering. And fundamentally, what we are

0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:06.720
<v Speaker 1>seeking to achieve here is that European citizens can exercise

0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:11.800
<v Speaker 1>their democratic entitlement in free and fair elections and in

0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.480
<v Speaker 1>a manner that is not subject to any interference, and

0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:17.959
<v Speaker 1>so that's why we will be proposing, for example, the

0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:23.000
<v Speaker 1>European Center for Democratic Resilience that President vander Lyine first

0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.920
<v Speaker 1>announced in her State of the Union addressed back in September.

0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:29.360
<v Speaker 1>And we'll be fleshing out in a little more detail

0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:34.000
<v Speaker 1>tomorrow when we publish the proposals the precise role of

0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.280
<v Speaker 1>this new center. But overall, it is going to be

0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:40.840
<v Speaker 1>a multifaceted approach because we have to protect the foundations

0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:44.839
<v Speaker 1>of democracy. That means investing in a free and independent

0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.000
<v Speaker 1>and plural media sector. It's also about supporting our civil society,

0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.880
<v Speaker 1>but also ensuring that our citizens are giving given the

0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.360
<v Speaker 1>tools that they need to navigate what is a very

0:01:55.360 --> 0:02:00.800
<v Speaker 1>complex information environment at the moment. So investment in media literacy, literacy,

0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:05.720
<v Speaker 1>supporting our citizens in accessing the information that they need

0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.360
<v Speaker 1>to make up their own mind about who they wish

0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:12.240
<v Speaker 1>to have represent them at a local, national, and indeed

0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:13.080
<v Speaker 1>the European level.

0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:14.799
<v Speaker 2>And will it be a plan with teeth. I mean

0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.840
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about information that can be spread across for example,

0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.360
<v Speaker 2>social media. Is this something that's going to lead to

0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.600
<v Speaker 2>more European regulation against social media platforms?

0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:29.240
<v Speaker 1>But we already have an extensive body of regulation and

0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.840
<v Speaker 1>the toolbox there that we can use. For example, the

0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Digital Services Act imposes quite strict obligations on the in

0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:43.800
<v Speaker 1>scope platforms in relation to protecting electoral integrity and making

0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.160
<v Speaker 1>sure that the content that is disseminated on their platforms

0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:51.960
<v Speaker 1>does not in any way impact negatively on the integrity

0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.960
<v Speaker 1>of the electoral processes. Within the European Union, we also

0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.960
<v Speaker 1>have the AI Act, which is progressively coming into force.

0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.200
<v Speaker 1>What we are going to propose tomorrow will very much

0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:07.000
<v Speaker 1>complement the existing legislative toolbox that we have, but it

0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:10.840
<v Speaker 1>will provide more capacity in bandwidth and what this new

0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:15.400
<v Speaker 1>center will do essentially is coordinate the work that is

0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:19.240
<v Speaker 1>happening between the EU institutions, the members, state authorities, and

0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:24.320
<v Speaker 1>other stakeholders to monitor, to detect, and to respond to

0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:30.480
<v Speaker 1>any incidences of foreign information, manipulation, interference and disinformation. So

0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.040
<v Speaker 1>we look forward to rolling this out and it is

0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:38.680
<v Speaker 1>fundamentally about ensuring that our citizens own our democracy and

0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.240
<v Speaker 1>that they can exercise their franchise in a free and

0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:41.880
<v Speaker 1>fair manner.

0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, turning to others ses now you're just back from

0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:45.680
<v Speaker 2>a trip to China. There's plenty to talk about in

0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.040
<v Speaker 2>the EU China relationship, but I just wondered, given the

0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.600
<v Speaker 2>story that we're reporting this morning about the European Commission

0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.800
<v Speaker 2>considering forcing member states to phase out the use of

0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.360
<v Speaker 2>technology from the Chinese companies Huawei and z T. I

0:03:57.360 --> 0:03:59.960
<v Speaker 2>know this isn't specifically something that relates to your portfolio,

0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.480
<v Speaker 2>but do those security concerns, I mean, are they weighing

0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.080
<v Speaker 2>heavily on the Chinese relationship? Does this speak to the

0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.280
<v Speaker 2>EU tightening the screws on some of their relationship with China.

0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Look, we want to have a positive relationship with the

0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:17.240
<v Speaker 1>Chinese authorities. I had a very good visit there last

0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:21.200
<v Speaker 1>week where the focus was on consumer protection and product safety,

0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.160
<v Speaker 1>and we're engaged directly with a number of ministers in

0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:28.360
<v Speaker 1>the Chinese government, with the authorities, and indeed with companies

0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.320
<v Speaker 1>directly as well, and as part of an overall relationship

0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.960
<v Speaker 1>between the EU and China. We have a trading relationship

0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:40.159
<v Speaker 1>at the moment that is quite unbalanced in favor of China.

0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:45.159
<v Speaker 1>So that's why issues like market access barriers for European

0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.599
<v Speaker 1>companies within the Chinese market is a key issue for US.

0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.240
<v Speaker 1>China is a partner but also a systemic rival and

0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.880
<v Speaker 1>indeed a competitor of the European Union. And so my

0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.719
<v Speaker 1>visit was building on the summit that took place back

0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:06.039
<v Speaker 1>in July that President Vanderline attended in China. And the

0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.880
<v Speaker 1>issue that you've raised is not something I can comment

0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:13.000
<v Speaker 1>on in any detail because no decision has been made.

0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well speaking, you are the first Commissioner to go

0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.200
<v Speaker 2>to China since that summit in July as well, and

0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.520
<v Speaker 2>since then we've had developments, particularly relating to e commerce platforms.

0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:22.720
<v Speaker 2>We're looking at the investigation happening in France in a

0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:26.920
<v Speaker 2>relation to illegal products being sold by SHE, and they've

0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.320
<v Speaker 2>also been looking at Team You as well. What is

0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.039
<v Speaker 2>the EU going to do about France's complaint when it

0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.800
<v Speaker 2>comes to SHE, and that's something they've written to the

0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:36.560
<v Speaker 2>EU about.

0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.480
<v Speaker 1>But we're in very close contact with the French authorities.

0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:44.440
<v Speaker 1>We have at an EU level quite a powerful set

0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:48.560
<v Speaker 1>of tools already, and there are ongoing actions against a

0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:52.560
<v Speaker 1>number of the e commerce platforms, including those that you mentioned.

0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.320
<v Speaker 1>So there are clear obligations under the Digital Services Act

0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:02.560
<v Speaker 1>in relation to the dissemination of illegal product online and

0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.359
<v Speaker 1>we're not going to tolerate that within the European Union.

0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.320
<v Speaker 1>The overall message is clear. If you want to sell

0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.120
<v Speaker 1>into the European market, and it's a very lucrative and

0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:16.040
<v Speaker 1>a very good market for e commerce platforms to sell into,

0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:20.240
<v Speaker 1>you must respect EU consumer protection rules and indeed our

0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:24.159
<v Speaker 1>product safety standards as well. Non compliance is not an option,

0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:28.480
<v Speaker 1>and that was the clear message that I conveyed in

0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:33.000
<v Speaker 1>my visit last week to China. So the report that

0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:37.440
<v Speaker 1>emerged last week of these childlike sex dolls that were

0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:41.760
<v Speaker 1>available on at least one and I understand more platforms

0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:48.159
<v Speaker 1>is something that is completely unacceptable and we will not

0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.080
<v Speaker 1>tolerate that within the European market.

0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Will there be new action against CN over that.

0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, there are already actions underway, and the French authorities

0:06:56.040 --> 0:07:00.560
<v Speaker 1>have launched their own investigation and we are remaining in

0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.680
<v Speaker 1>contact with them. But already at an EU level, there

0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.279
<v Speaker 1>is an action underway in the context of the DSA

0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:12.680
<v Speaker 1>relating to illegal products on the platform, and so that

0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.080
<v Speaker 1>has to take its course and it will do. But

0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.440
<v Speaker 1>we have powerful instruments, we stand ready to use them.

0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.160
<v Speaker 1>We have to allow you process and allow counterparties the

0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:27.560
<v Speaker 1>right to respond and to address any claims that we're making,

0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.360
<v Speaker 1>but we will bring this to a conclusion and we

0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.800
<v Speaker 1>will ensure that such products have no place in the

0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.000
<v Speaker 1>European market and will not be contenance.

0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.600
<v Speaker 2>Is the Digital Services Act strong enough to help deal

0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:39.960
<v Speaker 2>with the e commerce platforms? Is it adapted to dealing

0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:42.280
<v Speaker 2>with those particular type of companies.

0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.280
<v Speaker 1>The Digital Services Act is a very powerful tool and

0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.160
<v Speaker 1>we are using it. It is my view that the

0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.760
<v Speaker 1>main body of consumer protection law that we have within

0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:58.119
<v Speaker 1>the European Union, that's the Consumer Protection Regulation as such

0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.360
<v Speaker 1>that we do need to strength that, we need to

0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:06.240
<v Speaker 1>give the Commission a greater role in investigating and enforcing

0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:11.400
<v Speaker 1>consumer protection laws more generally, because the DSA only covers

0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:15.400
<v Speaker 1>certain inscore platforms, and then it only covers them to

0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.320
<v Speaker 1>the extent of the reach of the consumer protection element.

0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Within the DSA, there's a wider body of consumer protection

0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:26.320
<v Speaker 1>law which currently falls to the national authorities to implement,

0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:30.040
<v Speaker 1>and there are different capacities to be frank around the

0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.800
<v Speaker 1>European Union on that question, and that's why I am

0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.800
<v Speaker 1>proposing that the European Commission would take on a greater

0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.199
<v Speaker 1>role and be given more teeth to take on these issues,

0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.600
<v Speaker 1>not just against the very large platforms, but against any

0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.200
<v Speaker 1>other e commerce retailers that flout the.

0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:47.480
<v Speaker 2>EU rules because are you seeing some of those platforms

0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:49.600
<v Speaker 2>being able to get around national authorities.

0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.400
<v Speaker 1>But the national authorities have different capabilities and they are

0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:58.840
<v Speaker 1>resourced to a different extent. And at the moment where

0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:04.280
<v Speaker 1>there is a coordinated CPC action consumer Protection Cooperation action,

0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:08.120
<v Speaker 1>we coordinated centrally within the Commission, but it is led

0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:13.040
<v Speaker 1>by the individual national authorities and very often the outcome

0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.280
<v Speaker 1>is that the harm is stopped, rather than there being

0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:20.600
<v Speaker 1>an actual penalty and a disincentive to repeating such behavior

0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:22.559
<v Speaker 1>in the future. And I think we do need to

0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.120
<v Speaker 1>have a stick where EU rules are being broken, because

0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:29.760
<v Speaker 1>consumers have to be protected and product safety is not

0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:34.040
<v Speaker 1>just a bureaucratic obligation. It's about protecting EU citizens from

0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.960
<v Speaker 1>real harm that can actually lead to death.

0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.239
<v Speaker 2>Because there is a question of some of the investigations

0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.360
<v Speaker 2>that have been launched into the DSA, there's a series

0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.319
<v Speaker 2>of them against those big platforms and still no formal outcomes.

0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.959
<v Speaker 2>Should we be expecting results from those investigations. Soon there

0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:53.840
<v Speaker 2>will be results, and the results will emerge quite shortly.

0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.000
<v Speaker 2>We do have to ensure that your processes followed, because

0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.160
<v Speaker 2>as night follows day and the adverse finding by the

0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:05.840
<v Speaker 2>European Commission against an INSCO platform under the ESA is

0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:08.600
<v Speaker 2>going to be most likely challenged, and we have to

0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.560
<v Speaker 2>make sure that our process is robust, but.

0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.240
<v Speaker 1>We do also have to ensure that it comes to

0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.040
<v Speaker 1>a conclusion, and I believe that a number of them

0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:16.600
<v Speaker 1>will shortly.

0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Michael mcgrat you, Justice Commissioner, thank you very much

0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.040
<v Speaker 2>for joining us in studio this morning, just because all

0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:23.120
<v Speaker 2>of those various issues