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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: So in the coming days, the European Union is set

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Speaker 2: to move forward with its plan for a European Democracy

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Speaker 2: Shield and initiative designed to counter foreign disinformation and interference.

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Speaker 2: Joining me now to discuss the EASE Commissioner for Democracy, Justice,

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Speaker 2: the rule of Law and consider Protection. Michael McGrath is

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Speaker 2: with us in the Brussels studio. Commissioner, good morning, Good morning,

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Speaker 2: let's talk about the goals of this project. The details

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Speaker 2: are going to the Commission to be adopted tomorrow. What

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Speaker 2: exactly are you trying to combat with the Democracy Shield?

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Speaker 2: Is this just about Russia.

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Speaker 1: We're looking to protect one of the most precious things

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Speaker 1: we have in the European Union, and that is our democracy.

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Speaker 1: It has been hard won. There are many member states

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Speaker 1: of the European Union that just thirty five years ago

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Speaker 1: were not democracies. We need to ensure that our elections

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Speaker 1: are free and fair, that they are free from any

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Speaker 1: external or indeed internal interfering. And fundamentally, what we are

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Speaker 1: seeking to achieve here is that European citizens can exercise

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Speaker 1: their democratic entitlement in free and fair elections and in

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Speaker 1: a manner that is not subject to any interference, and

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Speaker 1: so that's why we will be proposing, for example, the

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Speaker 1: European Center for Democratic Resilience that President vander Lyine first

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Speaker 1: announced in her State of the Union addressed back in September.

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Speaker 1: And we'll be fleshing out in a little more detail

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Speaker 1: tomorrow when we publish the proposals the precise role of

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Speaker 1: this new center. But overall, it is going to be

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Speaker 1: a multifaceted approach because we have to protect the foundations

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Speaker 1: of democracy. That means investing in a free and independent

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Speaker 1: and plural media sector. It's also about supporting our civil society,

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Speaker 1: but also ensuring that our citizens are giving given the

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Speaker 1: tools that they need to navigate what is a very

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Speaker 1: complex information environment at the moment. So investment in media literacy, literacy,

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Speaker 1: supporting our citizens in accessing the information that they need

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Speaker 1: to make up their own mind about who they wish

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Speaker 1: to have represent them at a local, national, and indeed

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Speaker 1: the European level.

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Speaker 2: And will it be a plan with teeth. I mean

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Speaker 2: we're talking about information that can be spread across for example,

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Speaker 2: social media. Is this something that's going to lead to

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Speaker 2: more European regulation against social media platforms?

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Speaker 1: But we already have an extensive body of regulation and

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Speaker 1: the toolbox there that we can use. For example, the

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Speaker 1: Digital Services Act imposes quite strict obligations on the in

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Speaker 1: scope platforms in relation to protecting electoral integrity and making

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Speaker 1: sure that the content that is disseminated on their platforms

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Speaker 1: does not in any way impact negatively on the integrity

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Speaker 1: of the electoral processes. Within the European Union, we also

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Speaker 1: have the AI Act, which is progressively coming into force.

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Speaker 1: What we are going to propose tomorrow will very much

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Speaker 1: complement the existing legislative toolbox that we have, but it

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Speaker 1: will provide more capacity in bandwidth and what this new

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Speaker 1: center will do essentially is coordinate the work that is

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Speaker 1: happening between the EU institutions, the members, state authorities, and

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Speaker 1: other stakeholders to monitor, to detect, and to respond to

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Speaker 1: any incidences of foreign information, manipulation, interference and disinformation. So

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Speaker 1: we look forward to rolling this out and it is

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Speaker 1: fundamentally about ensuring that our citizens own our democracy and

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Speaker 1: that they can exercise their franchise in a free and

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Speaker 1: fair manner.

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Speaker 2: Okay, turning to others ses now you're just back from

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Speaker 2: a trip to China. There's plenty to talk about in

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Speaker 2: the EU China relationship, but I just wondered, given the

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Speaker 2: story that we're reporting this morning about the European Commission

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Speaker 2: considering forcing member states to phase out the use of

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Speaker 2: technology from the Chinese companies Huawei and z T. I

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Speaker 2: know this isn't specifically something that relates to your portfolio,

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Speaker 2: but do those security concerns, I mean, are they weighing

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Speaker 2: heavily on the Chinese relationship? Does this speak to the

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Speaker 2: EU tightening the screws on some of their relationship with China.

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Speaker 1: Look, we want to have a positive relationship with the

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Speaker 1: Chinese authorities. I had a very good visit there last

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Speaker 1: week where the focus was on consumer protection and product safety,

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Speaker 1: and we're engaged directly with a number of ministers in

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Speaker 1: the Chinese government, with the authorities, and indeed with companies

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Speaker 1: directly as well, and as part of an overall relationship

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Speaker 1: between the EU and China. We have a trading relationship

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Speaker 1: at the moment that is quite unbalanced in favor of China.

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Speaker 1: So that's why issues like market access barriers for European

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Speaker 1: companies within the Chinese market is a key issue for US.

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Speaker 1: China is a partner but also a systemic rival and

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Speaker 1: indeed a competitor of the European Union. And so my

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Speaker 1: visit was building on the summit that took place back

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Speaker 1: in July that President Vanderline attended in China. And the

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Speaker 1: issue that you've raised is not something I can comment

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Speaker 1: on in any detail because no decision has been made.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well speaking, you are the first Commissioner to go

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Speaker 2: to China since that summit in July as well, and

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Speaker 2: since then we've had developments, particularly relating to e commerce platforms.

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Speaker 2: We're looking at the investigation happening in France in a

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Speaker 2: relation to illegal products being sold by SHE, and they've

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Speaker 2: also been looking at Team You as well. What is

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Speaker 2: the EU going to do about France's complaint when it

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Speaker 2: comes to SHE, and that's something they've written to the

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Speaker 2: EU about.

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Speaker 1: But we're in very close contact with the French authorities.

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Speaker 1: We have at an EU level quite a powerful set

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Speaker 1: of tools already, and there are ongoing actions against a

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Speaker 1: number of the e commerce platforms, including those that you mentioned.

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Speaker 1: So there are clear obligations under the Digital Services Act

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Speaker 1: in relation to the dissemination of illegal product online and

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Speaker 1: we're not going to tolerate that within the European Union.

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Speaker 1: The overall message is clear. If you want to sell

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Speaker 1: into the European market, and it's a very lucrative and

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Speaker 1: a very good market for e commerce platforms to sell into,

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Speaker 1: you must respect EU consumer protection rules and indeed our

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Speaker 1: product safety standards as well. Non compliance is not an option,

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Speaker 1: and that was the clear message that I conveyed in

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Speaker 1: my visit last week to China. So the report that

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Speaker 1: emerged last week of these childlike sex dolls that were

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Speaker 1: available on at least one and I understand more platforms

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Speaker 1: is something that is completely unacceptable and we will not

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Speaker 1: tolerate that within the European market.

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Speaker 2: Will there be new action against CN over that.

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Speaker 1: Well, there are already actions underway, and the French authorities

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Speaker 1: have launched their own investigation and we are remaining in

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Speaker 1: contact with them. But already at an EU level, there

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Speaker 1: is an action underway in the context of the DSA

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Speaker 1: relating to illegal products on the platform, and so that

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Speaker 1: has to take its course and it will do. But

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Speaker 1: we have powerful instruments, we stand ready to use them.

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Speaker 1: We have to allow you process and allow counterparties the

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Speaker 1: right to respond and to address any claims that we're making,

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Speaker 1: but we will bring this to a conclusion and we

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Speaker 1: will ensure that such products have no place in the

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Speaker 1: European market and will not be contenance.

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Speaker 2: Is the Digital Services Act strong enough to help deal

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Speaker 2: with the e commerce platforms? Is it adapted to dealing

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Speaker 2: with those particular type of companies.

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Speaker 1: The Digital Services Act is a very powerful tool and

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Speaker 1: we are using it. It is my view that the

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Speaker 1: main body of consumer protection law that we have within

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Speaker 1: the European Union, that's the Consumer Protection Regulation as such

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Speaker 1: that we do need to strength that, we need to

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Speaker 1: give the Commission a greater role in investigating and enforcing

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Speaker 1: consumer protection laws more generally, because the DSA only covers

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Speaker 1: certain inscore platforms, and then it only covers them to

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Speaker 1: the extent of the reach of the consumer protection element.

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Speaker 1: Within the DSA, there's a wider body of consumer protection

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Speaker 1: law which currently falls to the national authorities to implement,

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Speaker 1: and there are different capacities to be frank around the

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Speaker 1: European Union on that question, and that's why I am

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Speaker 1: proposing that the European Commission would take on a greater

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Speaker 1: role and be given more teeth to take on these issues,

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Speaker 1: not just against the very large platforms, but against any

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Speaker 1: other e commerce retailers that flout the.

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Speaker 2: EU rules because are you seeing some of those platforms

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Speaker 2: being able to get around national authorities.

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Speaker 1: But the national authorities have different capabilities and they are

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Speaker 1: resourced to a different extent. And at the moment where

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Speaker 1: there is a coordinated CPC action consumer Protection Cooperation action,

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Speaker 1: we coordinated centrally within the Commission, but it is led

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Speaker 1: by the individual national authorities and very often the outcome

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Speaker 1: is that the harm is stopped, rather than there being

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Speaker 1: an actual penalty and a disincentive to repeating such behavior

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Speaker 1: in the future. And I think we do need to

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Speaker 1: have a stick where EU rules are being broken, because

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Speaker 1: consumers have to be protected and product safety is not

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Speaker 1: just a bureaucratic obligation. It's about protecting EU citizens from

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Speaker 1: real harm that can actually lead to death.

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Speaker 2: Because there is a question of some of the investigations

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Speaker 2: that have been launched into the DSA, there's a series

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Speaker 2: of them against those big platforms and still no formal outcomes.

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Speaker 2: Should we be expecting results from those investigations. Soon there

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Speaker 2: will be results, and the results will emerge quite shortly.

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Speaker 2: We do have to ensure that your processes followed, because

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Speaker 2: as night follows day and the adverse finding by the

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Speaker 2: European Commission against an INSCO platform under the ESA is

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Speaker 2: going to be most likely challenged, and we have to

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Speaker 2: make sure that our process is robust, but.

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Speaker 1: We do also have to ensure that it comes to

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Speaker 1: a conclusion, and I believe that a number of them

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Speaker 1: will shortly.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Michael mcgrat you, Justice Commissioner, thank you very much

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Speaker 2: for joining us in studio this morning, just because all

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Speaker 2: of those various issues