WEBVTT - After the Meltdown, Elon Looks to Robotaxis

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me tell you we have a new star. A

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<v Speaker 2>star is born Elon On Mars Juthan Kennemy.

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<v Speaker 3>He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age.

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<v Speaker 2>Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel for the guy. I would say ninety eight

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<v Speaker 2>percent really appreciate what he does.

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<v Speaker 3>But those two percent that are nasty, they are up

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<v Speaker 3>pay in four fos.

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<v Speaker 2>We are meant for great things in the United States

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<v Speaker 2>of America, and Elon reminds.

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<v Speaker 4>Us of that.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very disappointed in Elon.

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<v Speaker 3>I've helped Elon a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Elon, Inc. Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Muskets Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 2>June tenth. I'm your host, David Papadopolis. So the Wild Feud,

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<v Speaker 2>the feud to end all feuds between Elon and the

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<v Speaker 2>President appears to be sick down a bit for the moment.

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<v Speaker 2>Saalacious posts are being deleted. Nice thaties exchanged, but the

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<v Speaker 2>damage to their alliance is done and will break it

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<v Speaker 2>all down. Also, a big date is upon us this Thursday.

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<v Speaker 2>Tesla will apparently finally start its long awaited Robotaxi service

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<v Speaker 2>in Austin, Texas. Now, the torching of several self driving

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<v Speaker 2>waymos in La is perhaps an ominous sign for the launch,

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<v Speaker 2>as is the bombshell report by our very own Dana

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<v Speaker 2>Hall about a lethal accident involving in Tesla AND's self

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<v Speaker 2>driving mode. But perhaps for Muscinco it is an opportunity

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<v Speaker 2>to draw attention to something other than his brawl with Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>Then at the end, we're gonna have a little feud watch.

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<v Speaker 2>So lots and lots to go through, and let's get

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<v Speaker 2>to it with our regulars, the aforementioned Dana Hall and

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<v Speaker 2>Max Chafkin. Hello to you both.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey, David, happy to be here.

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<v Speaker 5>Good day, David.

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<v Speaker 2>How are you guys doing you look you're smiling again.

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<v Speaker 1>Max, I mean, crazy week last week. I'm still I'm

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<v Speaker 1>still still a buzz.

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<v Speaker 2>You're still a glow. So we spoke. You did an

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<v Speaker 2>emergency pod on Thursday with Josh, and then you and

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<v Speaker 2>I did the Friday one. Stuff keeps happening. Although I

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<v Speaker 2>guess maybe tacking back in the other direction bring us

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<v Speaker 2>now up to speed.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we I mean I think we started to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of hint at this in our conversation on.

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<v Speaker 5>Friday Elon Musk, I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, pretty quickly started to at least turn the

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<v Speaker 1>the the dial down it. He deleted the most incendiary tweet,

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<v Speaker 1>the one about Jeffrey Epstein. He I believe deleted the

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<v Speaker 1>tweet calling for Donald Trump to be impeached.

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<v Speaker 2>He's deleted at least two.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>He's also gone back to sort of something resembling his

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<v Speaker 1>regular scheduled programming. At the end of last week, he

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<v Speaker 1>like just started tweeting about, you know, a big win

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<v Speaker 1>for Starlink and Dominica, you know, the Islands, I guess,

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<v Speaker 1>which I thought was kind of funny because it's like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>here's the world, here's we're huge, where the world leader

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<v Speaker 1>does not hate me. But in any case, he's been

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<v Speaker 1>talking about his companies again. He is also sort of

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<v Speaker 1>amplifying Trump administration messaging on the protests. I believe he

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<v Speaker 1>praise tweeted a jd Vance statement as well as a

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump truth. He refollowed Stephen Miller for those who

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<v Speaker 1>are following that driving.

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<v Speaker 5>Got so so yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, he's sort of trying to edge his way

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<v Speaker 1>back into the good grades of Donald Trump without explicitly apologizing.

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<v Speaker 1>He hasn't done that or really come close to doing that.

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<v Speaker 2>Now Trump is still keeping him at arms length, though.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Trump was asked yesterday about Elon Musk's drug use, and

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<v Speaker 1>he answered the question in a way that seemed very diplomatic.

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<v Speaker 5>We should just listen to that, David, I think, yeah,

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<v Speaker 5>let's do that.

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<v Speaker 4>There was this New York Times report that he did

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<v Speaker 4>not want to talk about Elon Musk, that alleged that he,

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<v Speaker 4>towards the end of his time in the White House

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<v Speaker 4>was blurring the lines between recreational use of drugs and

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<v Speaker 4>medicinal Do.

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<v Speaker 2>You think he ever had drugs here at the White House?

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<v Speaker 2>I really don't know. I don't think so. I hope not.

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<v Speaker 2>Look I wish him well. You understand, we had a

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<v Speaker 2>good relationship, and I just wish him well, very well.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually, I mean it's not exactly a total denial, but

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<v Speaker 1>he also said he didn't see anything concerning you know.

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<v Speaker 1>To me, that's sort of a rear that tells you

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<v Speaker 1>that this feud is still going on, although it does

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<v Speaker 1>appear that Donald Trump's to turn that down down as well.

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<v Speaker 2>A day or so earlier, the Washington Post had I

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<v Speaker 2>think this is over the weekend, reporting that Trump in

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<v Speaker 2>phone calls with some of his advisors and such, had

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<v Speaker 2>called Musk a big time drug addict. So yes, certainly

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<v Speaker 2>a very differ tone here in this in this press conference.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a different thing to say I never saw somebody

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<v Speaker 1>take drugs versus I know he's not a drug addict,

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<v Speaker 1>right like, So there's like he could have denied it

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<v Speaker 1>in a more complete way, although he does back up

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<v Speaker 1>Elon's denials to some extent.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, now, Danna, we missed you last week and we

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<v Speaker 2>didn't get your hot takes towards the end of the week.

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<v Speaker 2>So as you are observing at all, what is what

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<v Speaker 2>is your take from there?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>I was.

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<v Speaker 3>I was off at the end of last week, trying

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<v Speaker 3>to be like a normal person. So I was following

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<v Speaker 3>this like tit for tat back and forth sort of

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<v Speaker 3>on my phone, but not in real time, and then

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<v Speaker 3>it was very hard to play catch up anyway. It

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<v Speaker 3>was it was just sort of crazy. But I thought

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<v Speaker 3>that Trump's what Trump said in that clip, I wish

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<v Speaker 3>him well. I wish him very well. Actually it's like,

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<v Speaker 3>is he wishing him well because he thinks he's a

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<v Speaker 3>drug addict, or is he wishing him well because the

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<v Speaker 3>relationship is over, or is he wishing him well because

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<v Speaker 3>he still needs him to finance the midterms? Like it

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<v Speaker 3>was just just an interesting, interesting response.

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<v Speaker 2>My reading of that was door number three. I wish

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<v Speaker 2>him well. Muski's working very hard to try to simmer

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<v Speaker 2>things down, and I'm gonna take a step in that

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<v Speaker 2>direction as well. I wish him well so that he

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<v Speaker 2>keeps sending me miney.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, my hot take was it totally reminded

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<v Speaker 3>me of the whole pedo guy thing from twenty eighteen

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<v Speaker 3>when like Elon, with zero zero proof whatsoever, basically just

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<v Speaker 3>like went on this rampage and called this cave rescuer

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<v Speaker 3>a pedo guy, and like then doubled down on it

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<v Speaker 3>and just he's like when Elon is certain that he's

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<v Speaker 3>right about something, or when he's upset or when he

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<v Speaker 3>feels like he's being attacked, he just goes thermonuclear.

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<v Speaker 2>And specifically you're referencing the Epstein thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like this is a thing like Elon is like

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<v Speaker 3>obsessed with his idea that people are our pedophiles.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the pedo guy insults all over. I mean, the

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<v Speaker 1>allegations around Jeffrey Epstein It's exactly the same insult, except

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<v Speaker 1>the difference. I see one of those guys, one of

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<v Speaker 1>those guys as president, and one was a guy who

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<v Speaker 1>had you know, been on TV once exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>But for him to level this at the president and

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<v Speaker 3>to do the twofer of he's in the Epstein files

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<v Speaker 3>and that's why they haven't been released and he should

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<v Speaker 3>be impeached, I was like, Wow, Okay, someone really needs

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<v Speaker 3>to like step in and take his phone away. In

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<v Speaker 3>the old days, that would have been Sam Teller, his

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<v Speaker 3>chief of staff. I don't know who takes the phone

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<v Speaker 3>away these days. Is it Katie Miller?

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<v Speaker 5>Is it somewhere else?

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<v Speaker 3>Like I would love to just know, like the apparatus.

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<v Speaker 3>And then there was a lot of reporting about how

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<v Speaker 3>this datane was reached because of intermediaries, and I'm like, well,

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<v Speaker 3>who exactly is the who exactly are the intermediaries at

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<v Speaker 3>this stage of the game.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Bill act and Kanye West And that's a non

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<v Speaker 1>on Twitter Alaska or whatever. He was like, hey guy, Hey, Elon,

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<v Speaker 1>I think you should cool down. And Elon was like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, that sounds like a pretty smart IDEA random

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<v Speaker 1>guy with a couple hundred Twitter followers.

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<v Speaker 5>You know, one thing I've been thinking about in the

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<v Speaker 5>sober light of day.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we have as we've been talking about the

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<v Speaker 1>Elon Trump kind of relationship a lot of Trump reporters,

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<v Speaker 1>including Josh Green, who was on the podcast last week.

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<v Speaker 2>I said I told you so, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I have said I told you so yeah. And I

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<v Speaker 1>am happily eating crow. Although I do think we're starting

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<v Speaker 1>to see that my take that this relationship may continue,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Want you want to share the crow with other people.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's not like as bad as did last week.

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<v Speaker 1>I do wonder if Elon is sort of a combination

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<v Speaker 1>of like one of these Trump advisors who were sort

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<v Speaker 1>of chewed up and spit out by the White House

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<v Speaker 1>and a world leader. You know, Elon is part Scaramucci

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<v Speaker 1>and part Kim Jong Um. And I say that because Elon,

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<v Speaker 1>because that's quite a merging, has leverage, you know, and

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<v Speaker 1>we saw it over We saw it last week when

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<v Speaker 1>he was threatening to to you know, cancel the Dragon program.

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<v Speaker 2>He has the kind of like the you know, campaign donations,

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<v Speaker 2>Dragon all those things are right, but Max, at the

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<v Speaker 2>same time, you can't tell me that he doesn't have

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<v Speaker 2>more to lose in all this than than Trump. No,

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<v Speaker 2>he totally does.

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<v Speaker 1>But I just think there's a way to reach kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a equilibrium where they are neither friends nor enemies,

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<v Speaker 1>which is kind of the way it works with all

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<v Speaker 1>these world leaders, where Trump one day will be hinting

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<v Speaker 1>at the possibility of nuclear war, the next minute saying

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<v Speaker 1>I love this guy, you know. And we've seen it

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<v Speaker 1>with Kim Jong Um, We've seen it with Ajijenping, We've

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<v Speaker 1>seen it with Vladimir Putin, where he will swing rather

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<v Speaker 1>wildly in the context of a negotiation. And I kind

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<v Speaker 1>of think that's a little bit of what we saw

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<v Speaker 1>last week.

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<v Speaker 3>I would just like to point out that we had

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<v Speaker 3>all this bs for so many episodes about the cage

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<v Speaker 3>match and what the real cage match was, and David,

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<v Speaker 3>this was the cage match. This is the true cage match.

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<v Speaker 3>Trump on like Bannon in one corner, Katie Miller and

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<v Speaker 3>another I.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't know, Like it's just Bannon is Trump's cup man?

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<v Speaker 2>Who who's Musk cup Man? Yeah, that's it's not It's

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<v Speaker 2>not Katie Miller, Zachman or Cacumen or Zachman the ref. No,

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<v Speaker 2>it's true. It's the cage match to end all cage matches,

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<v Speaker 2>and now they just write each side has gone to

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<v Speaker 2>their respective corners at least for the time being. Okay, now, Dana.

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<v Speaker 2>On Thursday, Tesla has a big day of sorts, the

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<v Speaker 2>launch of the vaunted robotaxi. Tell us or remind us,

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<v Speaker 2>I should say about the specifics and what's at stake

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<v Speaker 2>here for Tesla and Musk.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't want to go overboard and say it's like

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<v Speaker 3>a big launch of it, you know. Bloomberg has reported

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<v Speaker 3>My colleagu Ed Ludlow has reported that Tesla was sort

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<v Speaker 3>of eyeing June twelfth as the day that they would

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<v Speaker 3>begin some kind of robotaxi service in Austin, Texas. We

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<v Speaker 3>don't know if this is paid customers, if it's employees,

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<v Speaker 3>if it's just like delivering you know, vehicles from the

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<v Speaker 3>factory to new owners. We know that Tesla has been

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<v Speaker 3>FSD on supervised on some Austin streets downtown, but like

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<v Speaker 3>there's no event, Like no, I don't know of any

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<v Speaker 3>investor or cellside Wall Street analysts who's gotten like an

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<v Speaker 3>invitation to some big show. So it could be like

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<v Speaker 3>a very soft launch and you know, people within Austin

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<v Speaker 3>and terms like Austin City officials have been pretty mum

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<v Speaker 3>about it. So there's still just like a lot that

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<v Speaker 3>we don't know. I mean, if you live in Austin, Texas,

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<v Speaker 3>give us a holler because we're trying to figure it out.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I was thinking should I go to Austin,

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<v Speaker 3>and then I'm like, well, I don't know what I

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<v Speaker 3>would actually see because I just think that they are

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<v Speaker 3>trying to tamp down expectations a little bit. So what

0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:37.160
<v Speaker 3>exactly this will be?

0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.040
<v Speaker 2>And by the way, so for those listeners in Austin, Texas,

0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.480
<v Speaker 2>they should write into us Max at what is our

0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:43.960
<v Speaker 2>address again, Elon Inc.

0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:45.480
<v Speaker 5>At Bloomberg dot net.

0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.480
<v Speaker 2>And give us any hot tips on that. But I

0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.560
<v Speaker 2>do wonder Max if Dana's last point is exactly it

0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.280
<v Speaker 2>that this went from a year or so ago to

0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:54.920
<v Speaker 2>be Matt, this is going to be big. It's gonna

0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:56.960
<v Speaker 2>be huge. We're gonna have bunkeding up all over the

0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:58.200
<v Speaker 2>stadium and it's going to be.

0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:01.720
<v Speaker 1>A big knowledge just launch you could possibly imagine. And

0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:05.240
<v Speaker 1>and it's particularly noteworthy because this is a company, this

0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.960
<v Speaker 1>is a guy who is kind of known for these

0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:14.160
<v Speaker 1>big events. Elon Musk really likes to do these grand shows.

0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Why he's going to be so bitter that he misses

0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.200
<v Speaker 2>the screaming his name and.

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.520
<v Speaker 5>And you know, they started to signal this during the

0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:22.079
<v Speaker 5>earnings call.

0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:24.520
<v Speaker 1>We talked about this on our the episode that we

0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:27.480
<v Speaker 1>did immediately after the last Tesla earnings. We're talking about

0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:35.079
<v Speaker 1>ten to twenty taxis with teleoperation a very restricted area.

0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.079
<v Speaker 1>It also sounded like on the earnings call that they

0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.239
<v Speaker 1>are are kitting these things out with more sensors than

0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:45.840
<v Speaker 1>at least the standard model. Hy has so a lot

0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:49.280
<v Speaker 1>of reasons to not look at this as a true commercial.

0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.560
<v Speaker 5>Launch, and really not anywhere near a true commercial launch.

0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:54.600
<v Speaker 5>But you know, maybe who knows.

0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm prepared to be surprised because that's what Elon Musk does.

0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.800
<v Speaker 1>But we have not seen any signs that this is

0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.360
<v Speaker 1>going to be a big event, and in fact, I

0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.160
<v Speaker 1>think it's gonna be the kind of thing where investors,

0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.720
<v Speaker 1>maybe not on Thursday, but start to ask, hey, didn't

0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:13.680
<v Speaker 1>he promise that we would have a commercial launch?

0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:14.120
<v Speaker 5>You know what I mean?

0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.439
<v Speaker 2>Didn't he promised it? Didn't We friggin bid this price

0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:19.400
<v Speaker 2>of the stock up a whole heck of a lot

0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:22.000
<v Speaker 2>based on all this isn't you know, and so but

0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:23.800
<v Speaker 2>you know what one of the interesting things is is

0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:26.160
<v Speaker 2>they always seem to forget that they had bid them,

0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.320
<v Speaker 2>they did price the stock up, and then when it doesn't,

0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:31.680
<v Speaker 2>if it doesn't come to pass, then they just go, well,

0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.360
<v Speaker 2>we're just gonna bid it up on some some other thing.

0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.000
<v Speaker 2>As you say, Max, coming down the road. Now, Dana,

0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.760
<v Speaker 2>tell us a little bit about a story, a fantastic

0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.280
<v Speaker 2>story that you and friend of the Pod Craig Trudel,

0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.640
<v Speaker 2>had last week about something that is related at the

0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:51.000
<v Speaker 2>very least, you know, tangentially related to this whole Robotaxi launch.

0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:52.679
<v Speaker 2>Hit us with the details.

0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so this was just sort of a horrible, tragic

0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.880
<v Speaker 3>tale of how a seventy one year old grandmother in

0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:05.200
<v Speaker 3>Arizona was killed by a Tesla and it all came

0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.280
<v Speaker 3>to late in a very weird sequence of events, which

0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:13.960
<v Speaker 3>was in October, NITSA announced that they were investigating Tesla

0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:18.360
<v Speaker 3>FSD because of four separate crashes where the vehicle with

0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 3>FSD engaged seemed to have difficulty where there was fog,

0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.160
<v Speaker 3>dust or glare. And they listed these four crashes and

0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:31.600
<v Speaker 3>one of them was pedestrian fatal fatality pedestrian Arizona. And

0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.480
<v Speaker 3>I was like, wait, what, Like a tesla using FSD

0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.320
<v Speaker 3>killed a pedestrian, Like I didn't hear about that, Like

0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 3>what was that? And we asked tesla, we asked NITSA,

0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 3>we asked for more details. Nobody had anything. And so

0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.560
<v Speaker 3>then I went to my old friend public records, which

0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 3>you know, I just can't stress enough the importance of

0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.720
<v Speaker 3>digging for public records. And I filed a Public Records

0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.920
<v Speaker 3>Act request with the Arizona Department of Public Safety and

0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.320
<v Speaker 3>I was like, do you have any details about this

0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.200
<v Speaker 3>crash where apparently at Panestia was killed. And I asked

0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:06.800
<v Speaker 3>for the crash report, photographs, and any camera footage taken

0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.520
<v Speaker 3>from vehicles at the scene, and like lo and behold,

0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.400
<v Speaker 3>several months later, in like late March, I got back

0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:17.480
<v Speaker 3>this trove of data, including the video footage of the

0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:21.120
<v Speaker 3>crash taken from the tesla itself. And I have to say,

0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 3>like I have looked at a lot of crash footage

0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.000
<v Speaker 3>and a lot of crash reports in my time as

0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:30.120
<v Speaker 3>an automotive reporter, I've never gotten back footage from a

0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.960
<v Speaker 3>tesla like this. I mean, the state trooper who had

0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.760
<v Speaker 3>the wherewithal to download it right at the scene has

0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.000
<v Speaker 3>my kudos, And so we just got back this like

0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.840
<v Speaker 3>really harrowing footage, and it showed that sun glare was

0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.040
<v Speaker 3>the issue that the Tesla that was driving could not

0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.920
<v Speaker 3>see in front of it because of the glare on

0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.680
<v Speaker 3>the camera. And this was all the more intriguing to

0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.480
<v Speaker 3>me because on the last earnings call, Elon was specifically

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:56.960
<v Speaker 3>asked about sun glare and gave this like very long

0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 3>winded response about it. So it all the stars just

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:01.680
<v Speaker 3>kind of a line where we had all these elements.

0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh, but the long wind did response was what, hey,

0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:06.320
<v Speaker 2>don't sweat it. We got it.

0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 3>It was basically like, we've solved this problem. We had

0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.800
<v Speaker 3>this breakthrough recently, we can bypass the image processor, we're

0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:13.960
<v Speaker 3>doing photon counting.

0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 2>Well. So this is one of the questions I had

0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.360
<v Speaker 2>for you, which is this accident did happen a couple

0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 2>of years ago. So is there any confidence out there,

0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.800
<v Speaker 2>not just among Elon in his inner circle, but among

0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:31.400
<v Speaker 2>broader Tesla followers that they indeed have made advancements and

0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.320
<v Speaker 2>developments that would fix such a problem.

0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean to be clear, you know, Tesla is

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.920
<v Speaker 3>always updating its hardware stack and its software stack, and

0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:46.320
<v Speaker 3>so what version of hardware and software the Tesla that

0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.440
<v Speaker 3>was involved in this fatal crash had in November twenty

0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.560
<v Speaker 3>twenty three versus now, I don't really know because I

0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:55.080
<v Speaker 3>asked Tesla if they could tell me, like what was

0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.000
<v Speaker 3>the hardware version and what was the software version? And

0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:57.840
<v Speaker 3>they didn't respond.

0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Did Tesla respond at all to anything you ask them?

0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.320
<v Speaker 3>No, I mean I said, to a long list of

0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:07.119
<v Speaker 3>questions to several executives. But you can it's reasonable to

0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.720
<v Speaker 3>presume that, yes, the current use out there is a

0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:15.320
<v Speaker 3>different version. Maybe they've solved it, maybe they haven't. Doesn't matter,

0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.040
<v Speaker 3>Like this woman is dead and NITZA is investigating this

0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:24.280
<v Speaker 3>crash as part of a potential defect investigation. And you know,

0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.760
<v Speaker 3>we only know about this crash because Tessel reported it

0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:28.359
<v Speaker 3>to NITSA.

0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Dan of course, NITSA being National.

0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.920
<v Speaker 3>Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:41.399
<v Speaker 2>Right basically the men and women who regulate the transportation sector. Now, Max,

0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.800
<v Speaker 2>as Dana is saying here, regardless of what happens with

0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.479
<v Speaker 2>the technology going forward, that's not going to bring this

0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:51.320
<v Speaker 2>woman back. Of course, humans, as we've discussed, and that

0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.880
<v Speaker 2>as we've argued about in the past human drivers kill

0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.240
<v Speaker 2>thousands of people a year on the road, and I

0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.119
<v Speaker 2>should also say, as the story points out, but I

0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:04.720
<v Speaker 2>guess the question is, is society ready to accept the

0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.560
<v Speaker 2>deaths caused by the robots the same way it's willing

0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:12.320
<v Speaker 2>to say, Hey, God, awful, horrible that this human driver

0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.359
<v Speaker 2>killed someone else. But it's just part of the you know,

0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:16.280
<v Speaker 2>just the way things go.

0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Obviously society is not ready to accept that. There are

0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.359
<v Speaker 1>two problems here. One is that Tesla has all of

0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.679
<v Speaker 1>these statistics about the number of miles driven by what

0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:32.280
<v Speaker 1>it calls full self driving parentheses supervised FSD supervised. Those

0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:37.880
<v Speaker 1>statistics are interesting, but they are not the same as

0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:41.800
<v Speaker 1>what Tesla is purporting to launch in Austin or anywhere else,

0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:44.359
<v Speaker 1>which is the same system but without a human in.

0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:46.040
<v Speaker 2>The loop, the exact same system.

0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.240
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and that's what Elon Musk has been saying.

0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.520
<v Speaker 2>So just sounds the supervised and gets ready.

0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.360
<v Speaker 5>For the lack of supervision.

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.120
<v Speaker 3>FSD unsupervised basically.

0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:59.240
<v Speaker 2>But in the nitty gritty of it, all you're doing

0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:00.880
<v Speaker 2>is stripping out one we.

0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Heard a couple of I mean, there are a few

0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.040
<v Speaker 1>modifications that they're that they appear to be making in

0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.879
<v Speaker 1>Austin because it's not ready. But my point is where

0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:15.120
<v Speaker 1>we're taking one thing and attempting to make a judgment

0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.439
<v Speaker 1>about another thing that is different, and that is different

0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.800
<v Speaker 1>and in like a hugely important way. The second thing

0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.560
<v Speaker 1>is like, these self driving systems are very limited. They

0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.359
<v Speaker 1>are only used on certain roads at certain times of day,

0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:34.960
<v Speaker 1>and they deliberately exclude difficult situations, so like snow splare

0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.399
<v Speaker 1>maybe they turn off when they can't handle it, and

0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:43.159
<v Speaker 1>so we actually don't know like human accidents. Although they

0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.560
<v Speaker 1>add up to a lot, it is not a lot

0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.880
<v Speaker 1>in terms of miles driven, and we don't know how

0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:52.679
<v Speaker 1>those limitations, the limitations that are in those self driving

0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.640
<v Speaker 1>systems today, and that people use them in specific ways, right,

0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.280
<v Speaker 1>they don't necessarily use them if they're in a really

0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:03.679
<v Speaker 1>chaotic cy driving situation, the kinds of situations in other words,

0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.760
<v Speaker 1>that are more likely to lead to accidents. So these

0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.439
<v Speaker 1>statistics are interesting, but they don't necessarily prove anything. And

0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:14.040
<v Speaker 1>that's why it's kind of so crazy that Elon Musk

0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.240
<v Speaker 1>is attempting to just kind of do this.

0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:18.919
<v Speaker 2>Than any final points on this before we move on.

0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:21.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I just think that there's going to be a

0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.080
<v Speaker 3>lot of questions about the rollout, the parameters of it.

0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.560
<v Speaker 3>You know what happens if there is an accident in Austin.

0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:30.960
<v Speaker 3>Is the city of Austin going to do anything or

0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.600
<v Speaker 3>the county or the state of Texas or nits And

0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:38.800
<v Speaker 3>then meanwhile, this defect investigation into how the vehicles perform

0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:42.639
<v Speaker 3>in things like fog and sunglair is ongoing, and I

0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:44.720
<v Speaker 3>think it's just telling that, you know, when we talk

0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.680
<v Speaker 3>about Trump and Musk and like the levers and the

0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.440
<v Speaker 3>copramot that each have on the other, Like what is

0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.560
<v Speaker 3>NITSA going to do here? Like are they just going

0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:55.400
<v Speaker 3>to wrap up this investigation and say Tesla told us

0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.840
<v Speaker 3>everything's fixed and this investigation dies on the line or

0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.440
<v Speaker 3>does it continue? So that's another thing to keep watching on.

0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:04.400
<v Speaker 1>One other thing about Dana's story, and this is kind

0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.719
<v Speaker 1>of important when you're talking about cities like Austin.

0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.120
<v Speaker 2>Do read it. By the way, it ran as a

0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.000
<v Speaker 2>big take, a bloomber big take last Wednesday.

0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:16.280
<v Speaker 1>Oh so one important thing also about the story is

0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:21.879
<v Speaker 1>av systems. Autonomous vehicle systems have trouble with non vehicles,

0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:26.280
<v Speaker 1>so with pedestrians, with cyclists, and with children, and like,

0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:29.000
<v Speaker 1>this is not the first time an autonomous vehicle has

0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.639
<v Speaker 1>killed a pedestrian. That that of course happened with an

0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:34.680
<v Speaker 1>uber autonomous vehicle, like about eight years ago or so.

0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.959
<v Speaker 1>And of course cities are driving environments where you have

0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:42.800
<v Speaker 1>lots and lots of pedestrians, where the interaction between pedestrians

0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:45.359
<v Speaker 1>and cars is really important. We've seen issues in San

0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Francisco where autonomous vehicles have severely hurt a pedestrian. It

0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:53.000
<v Speaker 1>was a cruise vehicle that dragged someone under its wheel

0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:56.280
<v Speaker 1>and as a result, CRUs essentially shut down its entire

0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:00.919
<v Speaker 1>av operation. We've also seen these kind of interactions with

0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:05.200
<v Speaker 1>pedestrians that are not necessarily dangerous but are problematic for

0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:07.560
<v Speaker 1>the autonomous vehicles, where pedestrians just sort of get in

0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:10.639
<v Speaker 1>their way, try to mess with them, try to confuse them.

0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:14.880
<v Speaker 1>And so I would expect that if this rollout happens

0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:17.560
<v Speaker 1>on any kind of scale, there are going to be

0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:20.240
<v Speaker 1>things like that, there are going to be issues with

0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 1>protesters or with people just kind of messing with slash

0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:27.600
<v Speaker 1>vandalizing these vehicles, and like it's just creating like a

0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:32.959
<v Speaker 1>lot of different vectors for chaos or something worse. And

0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:35.080
<v Speaker 1>I think that's one of the reasons why this is

0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:37.320
<v Speaker 1>such a limited launch to start with. This is only

0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:38.320
<v Speaker 1>ten to twenty cars.

0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:42.119
<v Speaker 2>Listen, I think for sure those things are going to happen,

0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:45.200
<v Speaker 2>especially as you roll out more of these things. I mean,

0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:48.280
<v Speaker 2>it's interesting to me, Unlike you, I happen to pretty

0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:51.320
<v Speaker 2>much firmly believe that human drivers are lousy and that

0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.199
<v Speaker 2>if given the opportunity, the robots will eventually do it

0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:56.840
<v Speaker 2>better than us. But you're also starting to convince me that,

0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:01.159
<v Speaker 2>you know what, we the humans may never allow the

0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:04.240
<v Speaker 2>robots to be tested enough to get to that point.

0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:06.240
<v Speaker 1>And that is that's like one of the reasons when

0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:08.639
<v Speaker 1>you talk to people in the industry who are skeptical,

0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.480
<v Speaker 1>that is their skepticism. They're not saying the robots could

0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:13.960
<v Speaker 1>never do this, we could never get there. It's that

0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:16.280
<v Speaker 1>the things we would have to do are things we

0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:18.360
<v Speaker 1>are not going to be willing to do. Like, are

0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:21.479
<v Speaker 1>you going to be willing to accept a technology that

0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:24.480
<v Speaker 1>kills pedestrians at a higher rate than human drivers?

0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:27.359
<v Speaker 5>I mean initially or maybe total?

0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:31.040
<v Speaker 1>Like fer people die, Well, what a fewer people in

0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:33.720
<v Speaker 1>cars die, but more pedestrians die? Would you know that's

0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:36.879
<v Speaker 1>still of course not Okay, Well that's going to be

0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:37.400
<v Speaker 1>a problem.

0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Well they call the whole thing off, all the robo

0:23:41.560 --> 0:23:43.000
<v Speaker 2>taxi launch off.

0:23:43.280 --> 0:23:46.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I guess the question is like, are you willing so?

0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:49.760
<v Speaker 3>Roughly forty thousand people die in traffic accidents every year

0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.080
<v Speaker 3>in the United States. Alcohol, drug use, and speed and

0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:56.160
<v Speaker 3>not wearing seatbelts are all huge factors in these crashes.

0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:59.719
<v Speaker 3>But the premise of autonomous driving is that we can

0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:03.680
<v Speaker 3>get to crash zero, but on the way to crash zero,

0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:07.919
<v Speaker 3>are we happy if robots like end up killing people?

0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:10.400
<v Speaker 3>I don't think so. I mean, so that's the calculus

0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:13.359
<v Speaker 3>that everyone's trying to make. And what was so sad

0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:15.880
<v Speaker 3>about this crash is it's like a double fault accident,

0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:18.439
<v Speaker 3>right like Tesla's legally is always says that the driver

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:21.560
<v Speaker 3>has to maintain control at all times. So clearly the

0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:24.919
<v Speaker 3>driver was not paying attention and did not realize that

0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:26.840
<v Speaker 3>the glare was really bad, and perhaps they should have

0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:29.639
<v Speaker 3>slowed down or moved over before coming upon all these cars.

0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:33.120
<v Speaker 3>But then also f Steve was apparently engaged per Nitza

0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:37.040
<v Speaker 3>and that didn't see all the warning signs either, including

0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:39.959
<v Speaker 3>cars that were pulled over with hazard lights on. I mean,

0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:42.600
<v Speaker 3>there were a lot of stationary objects that one would

0:24:42.600 --> 0:24:44.400
<v Speaker 3>think an FSD system would have seen.

0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:47.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is the kind of scenario where I mean,

0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:50.520
<v Speaker 1>and again we don't know for sure, it's very dangerous

0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:52.760
<v Speaker 1>anytime you get out of your car on the highway,

0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:53.560
<v Speaker 1>it's very dangerous.

0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:55.520
<v Speaker 5>Yes, but this does sound like.

0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:57.840
<v Speaker 1>A scenario where a human driver might have done a

0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:00.840
<v Speaker 1>better job. And like we're like, as Dana is saying,

0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:04.199
<v Speaker 1>there's lots there's a lot of context around this that

0:25:04.200 --> 0:25:06.560
<v Speaker 1>that a human driver might pick up. It's also kind

0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:09.840
<v Speaker 1>of upsetting that the pedestrian who got out of the

0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:12.679
<v Speaker 1>car was attempting to help, was attempting to kind of

0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:16.800
<v Speaker 1>like you know, direct traffic around this incident, and in

0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:20.440
<v Speaker 1>a way that like again maybe a human driver, a

0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:23.000
<v Speaker 1>tentive human driver anyway, is able.

0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:24.880
<v Speaker 5>To avoid and avoid this tragedy.

0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:28.119
<v Speaker 2>All Right, I'm sure next week we will have a

0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:32.600
<v Speaker 2>bit of a recap of just exactly what transpires down

0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:41.960
<v Speaker 2>there in Austin hard pivot now Max hard hard pivot

0:25:42.440 --> 0:25:46.720
<v Speaker 2>to a mini feud that has been thrown off that

0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:49.880
<v Speaker 2>is a shard of sorts of the feud to end

0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:51.200
<v Speaker 2>all feuds. Tell us about it.

0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:53.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, Elon versus Rock.

0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:57.640
<v Speaker 1>Now, this isn't the first time Elon and his favorite

0:25:57.760 --> 0:26:02.119
<v Speaker 1>chatbot have beefed in public, but there was in the

0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:07.520
<v Speaker 1>kind of like back and forth over Elon Musk and

0:26:07.560 --> 0:26:14.040
<v Speaker 1>the Trump administration. Grock cited a tweet from Elon Musk

0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:17.120
<v Speaker 1>that was that was fake. It essentially Grock essentially fell

0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:20.800
<v Speaker 1>for a meme. I'm gonna try to avoid getting too

0:26:20.880 --> 0:26:23.600
<v Speaker 1>far into the meme because I don't want to defame anyone,

0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:26.240
<v Speaker 1>but it's a left wing meme without a lot of

0:26:26.280 --> 0:26:30.960
<v Speaker 1>basis around Elon Musk and a love triangle within.

0:26:30.800 --> 0:26:35.040
<v Speaker 5>The Trump administration. Grock cited this tweet from.

0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:38.280
<v Speaker 1>Elon purporting to be for this and acting as if

0:26:38.320 --> 0:26:41.160
<v Speaker 1>it was real, and Elon wrote, O f FS, which

0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:43.840
<v Speaker 1>means for sake, this is fake and.

0:26:44.200 --> 0:26:45.320
<v Speaker 2>With some sort of emoji.

0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:46.639
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I can't remember that.

0:26:47.480 --> 0:26:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Like the hanging hands, what's the one where they had

0:26:49.480 --> 0:26:54.879
<v Speaker 2>you put that hand, which to me just screams of groc.

0:26:55.359 --> 0:26:59.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm so so disappointed in you, so like you.

0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Gra is not a person, I just want to say,

0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:06.440
<v Speaker 1>and we should not be anthropomorphizing uh Rock or any

0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:07.000
<v Speaker 1>other AI.

0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:09.280
<v Speaker 5>It's just a It's just like a it's like a

0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:11.679
<v Speaker 5>spell checker or something. You cannot fall in love with

0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:14.040
<v Speaker 5>your spell checker. You cannot be mad at you can't

0:27:14.040 --> 0:27:15.040
<v Speaker 5>be disappointed in it.

0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:18.880
<v Speaker 1>On the other hand, it is kind of funny that

0:27:18.880 --> 0:27:23.280
<v Speaker 1>Elon Musk is simultaneously saying that these that this AI

0:27:23.400 --> 0:27:27.040
<v Speaker 1>is basically gonna like lead to a super intelligence and

0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:29.200
<v Speaker 1>at the same time baby getting into.

0:27:29.119 --> 0:27:32.440
<v Speaker 2>These baby steps Max baby steps. By the way, I did,

0:27:32.480 --> 0:27:35.760
<v Speaker 2>something came to me. Uh, if there is truly a

0:27:35.880 --> 0:27:40.159
<v Speaker 2>detent between Musk and Trump and coming days, there's no

0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:42.880
<v Speaker 2>better place to end it or or or I should

0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:45.480
<v Speaker 2>say to Ring in that detent than at the military parade.

0:27:45.520 --> 0:27:47.560
<v Speaker 2>And it happens. I think you have Musk at some

0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:50.399
<v Speaker 2>point in one of the tanks and then he just

0:27:50.440 --> 0:27:52.880
<v Speaker 2>suddenly pops up from the turret, right, I mean.

0:27:54.960 --> 0:27:55.640
<v Speaker 3>The cyber truck.

0:27:55.720 --> 0:28:00.040
<v Speaker 5>I mean that's cyber truck could bear. It's like the

0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:02.000
<v Speaker 5>Cyberg gets Russian warlord.

0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Dam Yes, exactly, Uh, Cyberg, that's good. We should send

0:28:06.400 --> 0:28:07.000
<v Speaker 2>that over to them.

0:28:07.040 --> 0:28:10.119
<v Speaker 1>But look, this is a lesson that you can't believe

0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:13.879
<v Speaker 1>every screenshot you see on the internet, and you definitely

0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:19.800
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't believe every screenshot cited by an Ai Chapbop and

0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:22.159
<v Speaker 1>El almost knows that well, so, which is why you

0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:23.359
<v Speaker 1>know why he's disappointed.

0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:28.879
<v Speaker 2>So disappointed, very very disappointed, Max, Dana, thanks as always.

0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:30.480
<v Speaker 5>Thanks David, Always a pleasure.

0:28:39.040 --> 0:28:41.840
<v Speaker 2>This episode was produced by Stacey Wong and edited by

0:28:41.840 --> 0:28:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Anna Masirakas, Blake Maples handles engineering, and Dave Percell fact checks.

0:28:46.240 --> 0:28:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Our supervising producer is Magnus Henrickson. The elon Ing theme

0:28:49.960 --> 0:28:52.680
<v Speaker 2>is written and performed by Taka yes Suzawa and Alex

0:28:52.760 --> 0:28:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Sugi Eira. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer, and

0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Sage Bowman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big things.

0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:03.120
<v Speaker 2>As always to our supporters, Joel Weber and Brad Stone,

0:29:03.520 --> 0:29:06.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute, rate and

0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:09.960
<v Speaker 2>review our show, it'll help other listeners find us. See

0:29:10.000 --> 0:29:10.560
<v Speaker 2>you next week.