WEBVTT - COVID Booster Shots Coming This Fall for Those Fully Vaccinated With Pfizer and Moderna 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.960 It's Thursday, August nineteen. I'm Oscar Ramirez from the Daily 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.120 Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.560 COVID booster shots are coming this fall. The Biden administration 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:13.880 has called for boosters to be available for those that 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:17.239 are fully vaccinated with Fiser or Maderna eight months after 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.639 their second shot with the Delta variant. The coronavirus is 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.880 still too widespread and too transmissible, and the outcome of 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.880 the pandemic seems pretty certain. The virus is not going 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:31.080 away and will be endemic. Sarah Zang, staff writer at 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:33.280 The Atlantic, joins us for how we are going to 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.559 have to live with the coronavirus. Thanks for joining us, Sarah, Hi, 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.239 thanks for having me. I wanted to talk about some 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:43.320 of the latest coronavirus news. The Biden administration has called 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.400 for a third COVID booster shot starting in the fall 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.199 for adults who got the either the Fiser or the 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:53.240 Maderna vaccine. So we're looking at these shots being administered 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.120 eight months after you got your second dose. This is 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:58.760 for ages eighteen and older, So they want to start 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.760 this around the week of sept Member, and we've seen 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.160 a lot of data showing that the effectiveness of the 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.360 vaccines have kind of worn off a little bit when 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.320 it comes to the delta variant. It's still protects very 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:14.080 well against hospitalization, severe disease, and death, but the delta 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:16.000 variant just kind of throw everything for a loop. So 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.759 what are we seeing in this, Sarah? That's exactly all right, 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.800 you know, as you say, the vaccines still protect really 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:26.000 well against hospitalizations and death, but it is pretty clear 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.880 that the vaccine is not effective right now against delta 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:31.119 as it was when we're seeing the clinical trials. So 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.800 the rationale is coming from the Biden administration is that 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:37.600 we want to boost people back up to kind of 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:39.920 a level where we feel more confident in And I 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.000 think the other fear is that, you know, maybe it's 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.240 still protecting really well against serious disease now, but where 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.680 is this going to look Maybe another six months or 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.120 eight months from now. And I think like in the US, 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.440 we certainly have the shots. Of fact, we have more 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:54.280 shots than people are willing to take them right now. 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.080 But I think that's actually maybe one of the other 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:58.360 kind of bigger pictures they're listening here, is that a 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.680 third shot will undoubtedly help boostupt the community of people 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.400 who take it, but the first shot for someone who 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.560 has not been vaccine is going to make much much 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.840 bigger of a difference. So there should we be focusing 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:11.240 their efforts on getting first shot to more people. And 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.320 I think the other big picture question is the rest 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.040 of the world, so much for the role, still does 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:18.440 not have enough access vaccines to vaccine everyone even once. 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.920 So this is really in some ways reflecting how we 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.080 in the US are very lucky to be a Washington vaccines. 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.480 It would certainly help, but is it maybe the best 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.760 use of a single disa vaccine. Probably not right exactly, 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.480 And as you mentioned, just a response to delta rising 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.679 cases rising hospitalizations, you know, if you are going to 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:38.840 get this third dose, it does have to be from 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.600 the same vaccine that you took before, so fiser or 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.920 MODERNA people that got Johnson and Johnson will have to wait. 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.040 They're still looking at the data for that to see 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:49.960 what they want to do. But the inclination seems to 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.240 be that people that got Johnson and Johnson will also 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.079 need a booster shot. All of this goes to say, 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:57.680 is kind of how we're going through this. Sarah, about 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.000 a year ago, you wrote an article talking about how 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.520 the coronavirus is probably never going to go away. It 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.480 will become something that we call endemic, something that we 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.760 end up living with. You wrote a follow up article 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:12.160 to this kind of how everything we've gone through basically 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.000 confirms it's almost to this point now things have not 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.280 gotten much better, and we're still there, and we hope 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:23.520 that through natural immunity through vaccinations, the coronavirus just kind 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:25.919 of becomes more of a common cold thing like other 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.000 coronaviruses have done in the past. Yeah, that's right. The 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.639 coronavirus is still never going away, and I think that's 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:33.920 even more clearer or clearer now than it was a 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.080 year ago. So I think the reason I would say 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.440 that seems, you know, even more unavoidable now is because 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:42.360 the virus has just spread so through so much of 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.240 the world, and we're also seeing how it is changing, 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.120 right Like we're seeing these new variants and with delta 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.600 there's like some better ability to slightly variability or reinfect 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.120 which are caused breakthrough infections and people who are vaccinated, 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:56.080 which is as we're talking about. One reason the Biden 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.040 industration is pushing for boosters. I think we're going through 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.880 like a very confusing period where things are very influx. 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:03.720 I wanted to kind of think about what the long 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.120 term is of like living with this virus is like. 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.520 And I don't think that currently confusing period is going 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.040 to last forever. At least eventually we'll kind of still 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:14.000 dance to some sort of more stable, steady state where 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.600 the virus kind of follows a more predictable pattern, very 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.520 likely or possibly a seasonal pattern. To see with the 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.160 way we see with the flu with other corner virus 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.919 is therefore other cornerviruses cause a common cold, and we 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.760 don't know if this cornavirus is going to behave exactly 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.200 like the ones that already exist, but we have kind 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.880 of just as like one possible benchmark for how it 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.360 might look in the long term. With the common cold, 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.039 coronavirus is we sort of all get them when we're 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.359 a kid. We probably exposed to them like before we 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:45.359 were two or three years old, and then we always 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.600 get reinfected. Immunity to coronavirus does not last very long. 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:50.600 But what happens is because we always get it as 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.080 a kid, it's pretty mild. As we're seeing with COVID nineteen. 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.719 When kids get it tends to be really mildly symptomatic. 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:59.800 So what tends to happen with other coronaviruses is that, um, 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.719 we get it as a kid, we get reinfected. But 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.440 that's also violent because our bodies have seen it before. 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.279 Maybe the virus changes a little bit, maybe your immunity 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.200 deal so waynes might get reinfected again. That kind of 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.599 boost back the community back up for a while, and 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.520 then maybe after some time you might get reinfected again. 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:19.599 But each time these reinfections, you're not starting from zero, 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:21.640 so it's going to be milder than if you saw 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.200 it for the first time. And if you are vaccinated 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.200 or it's happening in children, that's not as serious as 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.359 what's happening now with COVID nineteen. The problem with COVID 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:33.039 nineteam is that we're seeing novel coronavirus in adults who 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.600 have never seen this virus before, and that's what is 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.159 causing all the serious illness and the death. And that's 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.120 the whole point. As you were mentioning, you know that 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.359 pattern that we have dealt with coronavirus is before the 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.440 whole point of getting the vaccines going was to help 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:50.000 us in that not to completely eliminated or you know, 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.159 stop it completely. It was basically to help us from 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.520 getting severe infections, help us from dying from it. So 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:58.520 we're kind of in that position right now. That's why 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.400 we're trying to get so many people vaccinated. The other 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:03.440 component to it, as you mentioned in the article too, 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.440 is the psychological transition. You know, once this does become 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:08.720 endemic something that we live with, we're going to have 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.200 to think about it differently as a way do we 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:13.440 live for it. You know, we've been in this inflection 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.240 point right now where so many people are on so 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.720 many sides. We're not in agreement on what it's going 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:22.280 to look like later, but eventually we'll kind of get there. Yeah, yeah, 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.200 you know, I think one thing that's going to just 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.880 feel a little bit strange at first when we come 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:28.280 out of this pandemic is that, you know, in this 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.480 mill of this pandemic or in this emergency, we're all 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.880 trying to avoid this virus. But in the long run, 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.960 as this virus becomes endemic, as it can need to circulate, 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.120 we've seen how transmissible it is. Now like it's very 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:41.360 unlikely that all of us or even most of us 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.520 can avoid this virus for the rest of our lives, 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:45.280 so we should have prepared to be exposed to it 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.560 at some point. And that's fine, right if you've been vaccinated, 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.680 if you've had immunity to this virus, like reinfection is 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:52.839 not going to be as bad as like an initial 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.479 first infection and saying an elderly adult who's never seen 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.720 the virus before, and that's just probably how it's going 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:03.280 to be over time. Well, we hope that we do 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:07.080 increase the vaccinations and more and more people don't get 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:09.760 severely ill from this. As we mentioned, booster shots are coming. 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:11.800 We'll have to deal with all of that, and it's 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:13.200 going to be something that we're gonna have to live 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.520 with for a long time. Sarah Zang, staff writer at 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.480 The Atlantic, Thank you very much for joining us, Oh, 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:23.960 thank you for having me here. I'm Oscar Mirrors and 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.640 this has been reopening America. Don't forget effort today's big 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:29.200 news stories. You can check me out on the Daily 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.240 Dive podcast every Monday through Friday, So follow us on 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.800 I Heart Radio or wherever you get your podcast.