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Speaker 1: Ho Ho Ho Mary. Late summer. I'm Santa Claus. Normally

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Speaker 1: I'd come to you from the North Pole, but due

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Speaker 1: to a series of d A raids and Bobo Ho

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Speaker 1: Gus Telny charges, I'm in hiding right now. My friend

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Speaker 1: Robert Evans has agreed to help me with all of

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Speaker 1: the charges against me, and its thanks to him. I've

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Speaker 1: used some of my CHRISP mismagic to put together the

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Speaker 1: perfect behind the Bastard script. But of course her perfect

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Speaker 1: script needs a perfect guest, so I've used Santa's Luciferian

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Speaker 1: hell Forge, powered by the bones of the Devil himself,

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Speaker 1: to conjure up the greatest podcast guest in history, Michael Swam.

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Speaker 1: All right, that's all from Santa until the holidays, kids,

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Speaker 1: And remember those children were dead when Santa got there.

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Speaker 1: Oh thank you, Sanna Ah. Robert Evans here the newly

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Speaker 1: conjured Michael Swain. Michael, how does it feel to have

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Speaker 1: been birthed from Santa's Luciferian hell Forge? What the fuck?

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Speaker 1: What the funk was that he's an immortal, immortal North

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Speaker 1: Pole man just told us, Robert, everything about my conception

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Speaker 1: of metaphysics has shattered. Now, Michael, this is interesting. Is

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Speaker 1: it true that you never existed prior to this point

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Speaker 1: and all of the memories that people have of your

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Speaker 1: many hours of content were created by the devil in

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Speaker 1: the last several seconds. I come from the yes and

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Speaker 1: school of improvs. So absolutely, that's my entire beast. Now, well,

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Speaker 1: now that you exist and have an extensive backlog of

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Speaker 1: content and projects in that have been well underway for

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Speaker 1: several years at this point going on, why don't you

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Speaker 1: tell the audience what what kind of stuff you do

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Speaker 1: and where they can find you before we get into

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Speaker 1: this this Yule Tide extravaganza of an episode. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much? River. Well, it's true I was busy in

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Speaker 1: Santa's sack, and I don't mean it's attack. But when

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Speaker 1: I was but a gleam in Santa's I I was

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Speaker 1: Let's see where can I take the metaphor um cobbling

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Speaker 1: together a brand new show about video games with my

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Speaker 1: friend Adam Ganza right here on the I Heart Network.

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Speaker 1: So check us out. We're called one Upsmanship. That's the

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Speaker 1: number one, and then the word lit upsmanship. I used

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Speaker 1: to say word, but Adam told me that that's bullshit.

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Speaker 1: But I need people to know that it's the number one.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we deep dive into various video games and

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Speaker 1: argue about whether they would be shown to aliens if

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Speaker 1: we wanted to like impress them and not have them

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Speaker 1: destroy humanity. But it seems like the windows closing on

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Speaker 1: that opportunity. But let's put it this way, when they

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Speaker 1: sift through the ruins of Earth, these are the video

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Speaker 1: games we want them to encounter. Now, it's Michael, it's

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Speaker 1: it's very appropriate. You just talked about what we would

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Speaker 1: show aliens if they came to Earth, because today we're

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Speaker 1: kind of talking about that kind of story. This is

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Speaker 1: the story of essentially a group of aliens led by

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Speaker 1: the most alien creature in all of the universe and Italian,

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Speaker 1: who come upon a world filled with people who you know,

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Speaker 1: are are going to have to endure the realities of

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Speaker 1: their of their appearance in this world. Um, I am,

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Speaker 1: of course talking about Christopher Columbus and his voyage to

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Speaker 1: the quote unquote New World. Masterful sege, not plague, not

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Speaker 1: not at all, not at all. Michael, what do you

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Speaker 1: what do you what do you what do you know about? Oh,

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Speaker 1: Chris Columbus, not the director but also the director. I

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Speaker 1: assume they're guilty of the same crimes. So the angrier

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Speaker 1: you get it this, Chris Columbus, if you have a

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Speaker 1: chance to do harm to the other Chris Columbus, just

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Speaker 1: take a swing man. It's fine. Yeah. They both are

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Speaker 1: noted for their similar like rapport with children. Both Chris

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Speaker 1: Columbus have um well, I know, of course the pat version,

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Speaker 1: which I wonder if it's still taught an element free school.

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Speaker 1: But I first imbibed like the classic Happy Thanksgiving, Everything's

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Speaker 1: fine Christopher Columbus story, and my, uh, my eyes were

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Speaker 1: ripped from the veil whatever, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: probably middle of high school, where I learned a few

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Speaker 1: let's say, fun facts about Christopher Columbus that I bet

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Speaker 1: will come up over the course of this podcast. And

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Speaker 1: then this all culminated for me personally when at Cracked.

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Speaker 1: Among many many sketches, I got to portray Chris Columbus

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Speaker 1: in a series we did called Dead Talks, which is

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Speaker 1: an exhaustive like Chris Columbus bragging basically about the triangle

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Speaker 1: trade and you know, putting it in sort of neo

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Speaker 1: tech like we're going to change the world for the

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Speaker 1: better terms is the premise of that sketch and I

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Speaker 1: learned a lot through that actually, because cracked, as you know,

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Speaker 1: it's very fact based, something you brought to it honestly

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Speaker 1: before you were hired. I got to make shift up

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Speaker 1: a lot more. And uh, then they are like, these

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Speaker 1: kids really like the facts. Let's do the fact. I

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Speaker 1: murdered the fun for you. That's right. We hybridized it.

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Speaker 1: We got jokes in there. I know the feeling. He

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Speaker 1: does murder the fun. I do murder the fun, just

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Speaker 1: like Santa murdered those kids. According to the d e

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Speaker 1: A there it is so Santa does not admit any

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Speaker 1: wrongdoing in this case. So before we get into this episode, Mike,

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Speaker 1: I think we should probably have a discussion about morality

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Speaker 1: and the distant past, because whenever we talk particularly about dead,

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Speaker 1: famous white guys who were once worshiped as heroes and

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Speaker 1: are now being criticized for bad things they did, there's

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Speaker 1: a cry that goes up from a certain corner that's like,

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Speaker 1: you can't judge people from the past by modern moral standards.

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Speaker 1: This is usually meant as a callow and cowardly attempt

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Speaker 1: to stop all critical moral analysis of these people, but

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Speaker 1: also the sentiment is not entirely without value, because things

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Speaker 1: are different in the past, and if you are applying

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Speaker 1: entirely modern standards to things, then you're going to like

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Speaker 1: wind up just getting angry at ship and condemning people

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Speaker 1: rather than kind of understanding their actual place in the

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Speaker 1: moral universe of the time. And I think slavery is

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Speaker 1: a good example of that, because viewing all slavery and

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Speaker 1: all people who have owned slaves in history as the

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Speaker 1: same as the worst slave owners in history, and I'm

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Speaker 1: generally talking about the American Confederacy in this period of

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Speaker 1: time or when I when I say that is kind

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Speaker 1: of counterproductive because slavery has been the normal state of

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Speaker 1: affairs in most society throughout human history. Most societies either

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Speaker 1: had slaves or individuals in them were always at risk

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Speaker 1: of being enslaved. This is a thing that has gone

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Speaker 1: on basically forever. There have been some notable exceptions, like

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Speaker 1: the Persian Empire and whatnot, were like there was no

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Speaker 1: such thing as slavery, but there were generally structures within

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Speaker 1: things like the Persian Empire or like structures like serfdom that,

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Speaker 1: even though they were technically slavery, were worse off than

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Speaker 1: slaves were in a lot of other Like you could

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Speaker 1: compare a surf in the Russian step to like a

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Speaker 1: slave in urban Rome, and slave in urban Rome has

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Speaker 1: a lot more autonomy as a general rule, So like

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Speaker 1: discussing all of these things as if they're kind of

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Speaker 1: the same, I think does lose us some nuance. And

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Speaker 1: so when we're talking about Christopher Columbus, I obviously none

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Speaker 1: of this is set up in order to defend him

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Speaker 1: or mitigate his bood. But yeah, I think if you

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Speaker 1: want to actually understand what he did that was like

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Speaker 1: super fucked up, it's important not to just kind of

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Speaker 1: look at here's the things he did that we can

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Speaker 1: say now in two are bad, But here is the

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Speaker 1: things that he made worse. Here are the things that

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Speaker 1: like he ways he changed the world in ways that

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Speaker 1: made it more brutal and horrific than it had been,

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Speaker 1: because he came into a pretty gnarly fucking world and

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Speaker 1: he made it a lot worse. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: the reason to condemn him, rather than being rather than

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Speaker 1: stuff that he did that was like more or less

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Speaker 1: in line with common morality at the time. So I

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Speaker 1: think you do have to have an understanding of like

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Speaker 1: what was accepted in his culture. You understand the things

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Speaker 1: he did that were particularly fucked up. If that makes sense, Oh,

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Speaker 1: it absolutely makes sense. Although I do want to say

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Speaker 1: something that came to mind for me, uh was a

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Speaker 1: trip to the Slavery Museum in New York that I

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Speaker 1: where I encounter like a series of letters from people

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Speaker 1: at the time when the Triangle trade was first like

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Speaker 1: getting built and slave ships were coming to the shore.

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Speaker 1: And what was really eye opening for me is several

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Speaker 1: of the letters are and I'm paraphrasing here, holy sh it,

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Speaker 1: these are human beings and they're enslaving them. They're doing this. Now,

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Speaker 1: what the funk is going on? That's insane. We can't

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Speaker 1: do that. What is this? It's so it's interesting that

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Speaker 1: on and they it was on rare occasion, but there

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Speaker 1: were people who saw it with modern eyes instinctively like

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Speaker 1: you can't do that to a human being. Well, here's

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Speaker 1: the thing, I will are you, we'll get into this more.

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Speaker 1: They're not seeing it with modernized because most of those

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Speaker 1: people accepted slavery in other forms, specifically the kind of

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Speaker 1: slavery that Columbus instituted. They were like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: this is so much worse than anything we've seen. Like,

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Speaker 1: everybody does a little bit of slave trading, but what

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Speaker 1: he has introduced is like a new plague upon the world,

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Speaker 1: and is is is so much worse than anything that

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Speaker 1: had been seen before. I think that's part of what's

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Speaker 1: interesting about him, because like some of the people who

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Speaker 1: are condemning him, like day Las Casas, are people who

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Speaker 1: like grew up with slave trading in their local in

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Speaker 1: their own society, and like didn't really speak out about

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Speaker 1: that being an issue. Yeah, and it's Las Casas. I

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Speaker 1: I take the podcast wherever you want to steer it,

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Speaker 1: but if you do get into the list of just

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Speaker 1: like imagery, it's pretty it is a nightmare. But I

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Speaker 1: do want to in order to actually, I think, in

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Speaker 1: order to properly condemn Christopher Columbus to the with the

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Speaker 1: most understanding that we can condemn him, we have to

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Speaker 1: set the moral scene and and talk about the world

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Speaker 1: he came into and like what was the norm in

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Speaker 1: the society that he and his critics came into. So

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Speaker 1: this is not just when we talk about the ship

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Speaker 1: that was normal in Columbus's world. This is also the

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Speaker 1: thing that the people who condemned him at the time,

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Speaker 1: saw is normal, which gives you an idea of like,

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Speaker 1: how fucked up what Columbus does later is um, because

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Speaker 1: it's bad. But um, yeah, we will be talking about

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Speaker 1: a number of different kind of historic defenses because we

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Speaker 1: had this. So if you want to look at the

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Speaker 1: broad sweep of how people have talked about Columbus, you

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Speaker 1: had Columbus, great guy, hero, schoolhouse rock, you know, YadA, YadA, YadA,

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Speaker 1: let's let's show him dancing, and then you have Columbus

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Speaker 1: is was a monster and and a war criminal on

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Speaker 1: a on a on a historic scale. And now you've

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Speaker 1: got a pushback largely coming from conservatives. Um. If you

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Speaker 1: want to go google Columbus Misunderstood or like Columbus, you know,

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Speaker 1: revisiting or whatever, you'll find a bunch of daily wire

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Speaker 1: fucking articles and ship about him, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: them are going to quote one of the books that

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Speaker 1: also is going to be a source of our in

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Speaker 1: our episode today. UM. And it's a book by Carol Delaney,

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Speaker 1: Um that is about It's called Columbus and the Quest

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Speaker 1: for Jerusalem. Um. Now, this is a book that has

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Speaker 1: some original research, and it will be quoting from it

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Speaker 1: quite a bit, but we will also be quoting from

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Speaker 1: other sources to point out how fucked up what Delaney

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Speaker 1: is trying to do in rehabilitating Columbus is. Um. She

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Speaker 1: is clear to note that she's trying to look at

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Speaker 1: him quote from a contemporary perspective rather than from the

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Speaker 1: values and practice or she's she's she complains that people

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Speaker 1: try to judge him quote from a contemporary perspective rather

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Speaker 1: than from the values and practices of his own time. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then she goes ahead and leaves out all of

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Speaker 1: the different judgments that people out at his own time

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Speaker 1: made about him, and a whole bunch of other details too.

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Speaker 1: It's just wild too. It was a different time, like

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Speaker 1: stabbing pregnant people on their bellies, You're like different. That

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Speaker 1: was always a problem, um, but it's interesting. I think

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Speaker 1: part of the value of this episode is as we

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Speaker 1: go through Columbus his life, we will be going through

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Speaker 1: Delaney's book and pointing out all of the things she

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Speaker 1: leaves out, because it's useful when you try to engage

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Speaker 1: with people who are currently in the process of trying

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Speaker 1: to rehabilitate Columbus, because that is like you may not

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Speaker 1: have noticed it, and all of the other problems. But

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Speaker 1: it's like a thing the right has been trying to do,

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Speaker 1: particularly in the last two years. Um So, I think

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Speaker 1: it's worth not just being like fuck that book, but

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Speaker 1: also being like, here is why that's books fucked up in.

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Speaker 1: Here is the things that it leaves out, and here's

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Speaker 1: the holes in her research that other people have not

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Speaker 1: had holes in. Um So, Yeah, Christopher Columbus was born

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Speaker 1: not at long after the Black Death finished its last

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Speaker 1: series of waves. Throughout his world, he's a he's a

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Speaker 1: child of the Mediterranean. He's born on the Italian coast.

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Speaker 1: Probably we don't know exactly, but there's a bunch of

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Speaker 1: records of him as a young man in the city

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Speaker 1: of Genoa, and he always claimed to be from Genoa,

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Speaker 1: so it's pretty safe to say probably born somewhere around Genoa.

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Speaker 1: Um and you know, Genoa is it's worth like again

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Speaker 1: to kind of at the stage for like the kind

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Speaker 1: of people who are around when he's a kid. The

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Speaker 1: plague is still kind of in its last waves when

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Speaker 1: he's born, and the Mediterranean is particularly like one of

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Speaker 1: the places where the Black Plague does them. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of cities and towns, including Genoa, where it's not

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Speaker 1: uncommon for like plague waves to kill fifty to se

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Speaker 1: the population, whereas if you're looking at like England and stuff,

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Speaker 1: it's often more like twenty, which is still devastating. Right,

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Speaker 1: you think about how bad COVID has been and how

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Speaker 1: much damage like a million dead has done in a

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Speaker 1: country three million, and like you're talking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: seventy five times that many people dying more or less

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Speaker 1: in like or actually know, like a hundred and I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I'm not great at math. A lot more

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Speaker 1: as a percentage of your population, much more people. So

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Speaker 1: number one. One of the things that this sets up

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Speaker 1: understanding like the fact that an apocalypse has just occurred.

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Speaker 1: When Christopher Columbus co and do he is going to

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Speaker 1: cause an apocalypse, but he's also he is the child

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Speaker 1: of an apocalypse. So he's born into a world where

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Speaker 1: like a whole lot of ship got sucked up really hard,

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Speaker 1: very recently in ways that are it would be difficult

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Speaker 1: for us to put our heads, to put ourselves in

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Speaker 1: the place of like people living in that world, because

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Speaker 1: the collapse that they endured was like so much more

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Speaker 1: severe than anything we've seen yet, you know, check back

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Speaker 1: in in about a month and a half. But at

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Speaker 1: the moment um, and obviously slavery was extremely common in

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Speaker 1: the world. He grew up in the city of his birth, Genoa,

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Speaker 1: was an influential Italian city state that made a significant

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Speaker 1: amount of its income through slavery. Italy is not a thing,

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Speaker 1: like it's a geographical thing, but like nobody would say that,

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Speaker 1: like I'm an Italian. You'd say, like, I'm Genoese. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm from Venice, I'm a Roman. And they all hate

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Speaker 1: each other, like they hate each other and they're yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're city states and they're constantly murdering each other, and um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's Italian's favorite thing in this period is

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Speaker 1: killing each other. Um, it's like the thing that they

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Speaker 1: do the most of um, other than make a shipload

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Speaker 1: of money through trade, a lot of which is the

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Speaker 1: slave trade. And the book is a good historic upgrade

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Speaker 1: that rebrand in Genoa from slavery to Salamia, which I

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Speaker 1: think and they're most associated with now major grad Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it it sounds like Genoa was a fucking nightmare back

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Speaker 1: in the day. And it is worth noting when we

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Speaker 1: talk about this city there's about seventy five thousand people

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Speaker 1: in Genoa when he's a kid, which makes it I

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Speaker 1: think it's like in the top five or ten cities

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Speaker 1: in Western Europe by population. It's one of the most

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Speaker 1: I mean it's which makes it one of the most

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Speaker 1: populous cities in the world at the time. Um, because

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Speaker 1: there's not all that many people, you know. UM. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: the book Columbus by Lawrence bear Green, who's a much

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Speaker 1: better historian than Carol Delaney, I think, um ably describes

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Speaker 1: the status quo in his home when he was born.

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Speaker 1: R E slavery quote. Slavery was deeply woven into the

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Speaker 1: fabric of the Genoese economy, especially traffic in girls who

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Speaker 1: were only thirteen or fourteen years old. Every Genoese household,

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Speaker 1: even modest ones, had one or two female slaves. Although

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Speaker 1: Christianity prohibited bondage, an exception was made for these non

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Speaker 1: Christian slaves. They were Russian, Arab, Mongol, Bulgarian, Bosnian, Albanian

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Speaker 1: and Chinese slave traders and pirates sold them on a

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Speaker 1: regular basis to Genoa. Occasionally, their wide net included a

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Speaker 1: Christian girl whom they kidnapped and would return for a

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Speaker 1: high ransom. The transactions were formal ordarized. Indeeded most slaves

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Speaker 1: were sold as is. If others whose health had been

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Speaker 1: guaranteed developed epilepsy or other health problems, the owner demanded

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Speaker 1: an annulment of the contract. Some cautious buyers kept the

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Speaker 1: girl of their choice on a trial basis to judge

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Speaker 1: whether she would remain charming and adapt to a life

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Speaker 1: of slavery. In Genoa, once acquired by a Genoese master,

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Speaker 1: girls became mere property, bound to gratify his sexual wants,

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Speaker 1: as well as those of his friends. Merchants able to

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Speaker 1: afford a concubine, and many in this prosperous city could

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Speaker 1: maintain them in households separate from their families. The master

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Speaker 1: of the house specified the terms of the arrangement with

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Speaker 1: the local note republic, especially concerning sensitive matters such as

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Speaker 1: inheritance rights for children born out of wedlock. So a

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Speaker 1: couple of things. You're number one, that's bad, Like it's

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Speaker 1: bad to have your society based heavily around child sex trading.

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Speaker 1: But also this is the norm, right, this is what

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Speaker 1: he's born into. Right, It's yeah, it's just hard to

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Speaker 1: put yourself truly in the mindset of an actual other

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Speaker 1: time with truly different social morizes, in the sense that

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Speaker 1: this is someone who's going, here's a fourteen year old

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Speaker 1: girl I purchased, If you'd like to have sex with her,

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Speaker 1: my friend, we're doing it. We're doing a society. This

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Speaker 1: is civilization now. Uh, it's so inconceivable through modern eyes.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I totally get what you're saying in the

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Speaker 1: opening about the contrast between what yes stept and what

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Speaker 1: is normalized. And it is important. Again, obviously it is

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Speaker 1: bad to sexually traffic children as slaves, but also this

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Speaker 1: is not just the norm in Genoa in the fourteen hundreds.

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Speaker 1: This was going on has been going on for a

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Speaker 1: very long time, and you could argue the system is

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Speaker 1: less shitty than it was, for example, like the height

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Speaker 1: of the Roman Empire, because slaves in Genoa are primarily

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Speaker 1: this kind of slave like how slaves who exist to

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Speaker 1: satisfy like an old dude sexual whims, which is gross

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Speaker 1: and bad, But a major factor of ancient Roman slavery

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Speaker 1: was we are going to enslave these people and work

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Speaker 1: them to death in a mind like in the worst

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Speaker 1: conditions imaginable by the thousands, which is probably worse, and

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Speaker 1: the fact that that's less common in the fourteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: you could say, is better. I don't think it's super

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Speaker 1: useful to look at it that way, but like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's important to note that, like all, like Italian wealth

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Speaker 1: for the last three thousand years prior to this was

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Speaker 1: built on the back of slavery on a massive scale, right,

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Speaker 1: always had been, you know. Um, And that's that's the

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Speaker 1: world Columbus comes into, not just a world in which

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Speaker 1: the trade in girls is a major industry in his city,

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Speaker 1: but also a world in which no one can remember

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Speaker 1: a time in which Italians did not make did not

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Speaker 1: base a significant portion of their economy on slavery. Right,

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Speaker 1: And like the world pre taken one, there's not a

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Speaker 1: singlely amazing no so nothing can free these people. Um

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Speaker 1: and yeah, so by the standards of the time, Um,

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Speaker 1: an individual who like accepts within this society that like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's just gonna be slavery around me, that's pretty normal. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it's worth noting, well, actually there's debates whether or

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Speaker 1: not Columbus himself owned a slave. This is the kind

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Speaker 1: of thing that you're not going to get a satisfying

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Speaker 1: answer on Um, but it is probably fair to say

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Speaker 1: that like if Columbus were just another Italian who existed

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Speaker 1: within a slave owning society and perpetuated it, he would

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Speaker 1: not get an episode on his own um, because there's like,

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Speaker 1: like every Italian prior to this point in history was

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Speaker 1: involved in the slave trade basically. UM So yeah, anyway, UM,

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Speaker 1: what I think is important is kind of setting the

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Speaker 1: scene because the thing that he creates is like, it's

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Speaker 1: not just worse than slavery that exists in Genoa of

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Speaker 1: his birth, It's something that the Roman Empire would have

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Speaker 1: looked at and been like Jesus Christ, dude, like what

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Speaker 1: the fuck? He yes? I mean he yes, he he

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Speaker 1: literally would have. But also like not not only did

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Speaker 1: people at the time judge him, but like if you

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Speaker 1: could go back and talk to like fucking Cicero, he

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Speaker 1: would have been like what the fuck man, this is like,

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Speaker 1: this isn't how you treat people. Um. So yeah, Christopher

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Speaker 1: Columbus was not, as I think he gets described a

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Speaker 1: lot by people on the left, just an er capitalist

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Speaker 1: who want to do enslaved people in like mind their

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Speaker 1: society because he was personally greedy. What's interesting about him

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Speaker 1: as a bastard. Is that the reason for everything he

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Speaker 1: does is that he becomes a Messianic Christian holy warrior,

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Speaker 1: and the genocide that he's going to commit, which heavily

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Speaker 1: involves slavery, is done in the name of funding a

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Speaker 1: war to retake the Holy City in Christendom, Jerusalem. Like,

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Speaker 1: that's why he does it. And so his excesses that

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Speaker 1: we're going to be covering are just because he's greedy,

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Speaker 1: although he certainly is, but it's because he's a frenzied

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Speaker 1: narcissist who believes he's chosen by God to bring about

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Speaker 1: the apocalypse, which is a different story than the one

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Speaker 1: I had heard even on the left for the most part. Um, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've only heard the Chamber of Horror's version. I have

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Speaker 1: not heard the Messianic cultist version. Yes he is. He

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Speaker 1: is a Messianic apocalypse cultist, and that's why he does

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Speaker 1: a genocide. So Christophero Colombo, which is his actual birth name,

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Speaker 1: and it's ridiculous, so we're not going to call him

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Speaker 1: that again, was born near Genoa in the summer of

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Speaker 1: fourteen fifty one, quite possibly around July. We don't know

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Speaker 1: the exact date or even month. But Carol Delaney notes

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Speaker 1: that St. Christopher's Day was celebrated on July twenty and

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Speaker 1: that his first name might be a hint as to

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Speaker 1: win he was born. Um I have my issues with Carol,

407
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Speaker 1: but this is not an unreasonable deduction. Um Any also

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Speaker 1: notes quote the name given to a child at baptism

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Speaker 1: was believed to have an influence on the child's character.

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Speaker 1: So when Susannah that's his mom, selected the name Christopher Oh,

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Speaker 1: she may well have been trying to affect his destiny.

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Speaker 1: The name Christopher Oh. Christopher means Christ Bearer and is

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Speaker 1: derived from the story of a pagan man, Reprobus, who

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Speaker 1: once carried a small child across a river. As they crossed,

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Speaker 1: the child became heavier and heavier, until he revealed to

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Speaker 1: Reprobus that he was carrying the weight of the entire world.

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Speaker 1: With that Reprobus, we realized that he was carrying the

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Speaker 1: christ child. For his service, Reprobus became a saint known

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Speaker 1: as Christopher. So that's the guy he's named after. And

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Speaker 1: that's relevant because he is going to take that name

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Speaker 1: that he gets super Literally, someone sold you a bag

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Speaker 1: of rocks, dude, you've been scammed. History dude, Yeah, you

423
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 1: have been scammed. And you know who else has been scammed? Michael, Oh,

424
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Speaker 1: gosh me in the future. After I hear these great,

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00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 1: wonderful products and services, I would say, the people who

426
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 1: haven't her of these products and services have been scammed.

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Speaker 1: But you know you can judge for yourselves. You really

428
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: turned me around on that issue. Oh we're back. So

429
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: Christopher is born just two years before one of the

430
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: most critical events in Christian history, the fall of Constantinople

431
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 1: to the Ottoman Empire. Now this is a really fascinating

432
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: story in and of itself, but it's importance to our

433
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: story is that this was both seen as a sign

434
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,959
Speaker 1: of the looming apocalypse. The enemy was quite literally at

435
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: the gates, and it was a calamity for European access

436
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: to global trade. Constantinople was one of the I mean

437
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 1: it still is like one of the major If you

438
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 1: just look at it on a map, you can see

439
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: why it's an important port city. Right. It's you can't

440
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: get shipped by sea from from Asia to the Mediterranean

441
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: without sailing around a bunch of extra bullshit unless you

442
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: cross through the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles, which Constantinople effectively

443
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: allows you to guard Um, and prior to its fall,

444
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: Christian control of the city gave Europe basically all of

445
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,239
Speaker 1: its access to spices and textiles from the Orient. Right,

446
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: That's how you get stuff from China, That's how you

447
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: get stuff from like even like Eastern you know, the

448
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: Russian provinces, places like Kazakhstan. It flows to you through

449
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: over the Black Sea, through fucking Constantinople. Constantinople falls, the

450
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: Ottomans blest the ship out of it with some very

451
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: cool canons um, and then suddenly Christians are like, oh no,

452
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: we're We're fucked. And there's a fun little story here.

453
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: They almost end the Eastern Orthodox Church as part of

454
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 1: an agreement with the pope to like send reinforcements to

455
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: save them, but it doesn't quite work out in time,

456
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: and it falls anyway, and then I guess the Eastern

457
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: Orthodox Church is like, well, why are we gonna? Yeah,

458
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: fuck it? I guess yeah. Um, So when the Ottomans

459
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: take Constantinople, which they call istanbul Um, there's a good

460
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: song about this setting up defining my favorite bands A

461
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: thousand years later. Whatever. Although you know, a lot of

462
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: different ethnic groups in the region would say that it's

463
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: quite a few other people's business. But the Turks, although

464
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: under air to win, the Turks would say that there

465
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: are only Turks in Anatolia. This is a whole contentious

466
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: historical man hates man. Yeah, particle man hates universe man

467
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: and recognizes the reality of the Armenian genocide. Um, that's

468
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: what everyone knows about particle man. Um. So when the

469
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: Ottomans take Constantinople, they get the ability to tax and

470
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: control all trade throughout the city or that comes through

471
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: the city, right and so and obviously, like you know,

472
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: they're Muslim, Christians are Christians. There's some like bad blood there.

473
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: So they don't have like the most interest in making

474
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 1: it uh easy for Western Europe to like get goods

475
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 1: from the East. Um. They want to make their fucking cut.

476
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: They've spent a lot of time going to war in

477
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: order to get the ability to do this. Um. And

478
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: you know this is a problem for Europe. Um. There's

479
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: attempts crusades. None of them really work out very well,

480
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: which is generally what happens with crusades. Usually they go

481
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: very badly. Um. And as Christopher goes grows up, he

482
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: was probably a little too young, you know, when Constantinople

483
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: falls to remember it. But a lot of his early

484
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 1: memories are going to be adults talking about these attempted crusades,

485
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: talking about the need to reconquer Constantinople and talking about

486
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: fall in Jerusalem, right, and the fact that like that

487
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: is a thing that Christians should be trying to reconquer.

488
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: So Jerusalem it was believed. Again this is not like

489
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: this is a belief at the time, but it's also

490
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: a belief among a lot of Christians today that Jerusalem

491
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: has to be in Christian hands, and particularly there's some

492
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: fucking temple there that has to be returned to like

493
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: being a Christian church or turned into a Christian church.

494
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if I ever, I'm not an expert

495
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: on Jerusalem mystery. Don't yell at me, um, but like

496
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: there's a Jerusalem has to be in control, like the

497
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: Christians have to be in control of it so that

498
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: God can end the world. Right, that's that's that's the

499
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: idea word for work, Yes, yes, um. But the problem

500
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: is that Jerusalem fell to Soladin in seven because again

501
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: crusades bad idea what and and Saladin very cool guy,

502
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: we'll talk about in one of these days. Um, But

503
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: it's worth noting that like this is very recent. Number one,

504
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: things move a little bit more slowly back then in

505
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: terms of history. This is three years before his birth,

506
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: But this is also very recent history to everybody in

507
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. Um. And to think about like

508
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: the way in which like this might have been talked

509
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: about the time. Remember, the founding of the United States

510
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: is a political entity. Is about the same distance from

511
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: you and me as the fall of Jerusalem was to

512
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: Columbus as a young person. Think about the degree to

513
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: which that period of time shapes all of our lives

514
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: right now, the degree to which every people still talk

515
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 1: about the quote unquote founders and ship. And that will

516
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: give you an idea of like how immediate and relevant

517
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: the fall of Jerusalem would have been to Christopher Columbus

518
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: as a kid. Right. Yeah, you can still win any

519
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: argument if you can prove that Thomas jeff Well, that's

520
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: what Thomas Jefferson would have wanted, which is so and

521
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: it cares about that and in his day, the Trump

522
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: card is well, this will help us retake Jerusalem. Like, well,

523
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: you're not focusing enough, right you know. Um, Yeah, so

524
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: for young Christopher and for any good Catholic, it would

525
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: have been taken as read that the chief goal of

526
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: Christian civilization ought to be the reconquest of the Holy Land. Now,

527
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: this was for some people an actual fervent belief that

528
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: they devoted their lives too. For most people, this is

529
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: kind of like the way old people today talk about

530
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: the deficit, right, Like they'll say, like, well, of course

531
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: I want to retake Jerusalem, but like, we gotta do

532
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: this too first, and like we got all this other

533
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: stuff to do, right, Like, it wasn't really on their

534
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: front burner, you know, um, which is why it never

535
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: gets retaken, among other reasons. Um. So, since there was

536
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: no real hope of taking the city and most of

537
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: the actual rulers were not going to burn all of

538
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: their treasure and all of their armies, probably failing to

539
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: retake Jerusalem, Christians at the time who were fanatics had

540
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: to content themselves with fantasies in order to like feel

541
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: like there was a chance of actually retaking the city.

542
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: One of the most common fantasies was about a guy

543
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: named Prester John, they believed, and who was this like

544
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: mythical Christian warrior king he's supposed to have a powerful

545
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: kingdom with a mighty army somewhere between Russia and China.

546
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: A lot of times people would say it was like

547
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: kind of where Tibet actually is. Um And basically the

548
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: way people will talk about it is that like any

549
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: day now, Prester John's gonna save us from the rampaging

550
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: Muslim hordes. You know, he's gonna come down from somewhere

551
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: in Asia and we'll we'll, we'll beat those devious Muslims,

552
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: you know. Um. The other hope they had, and this

553
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: may be surprising to people, was the Great Khan. Now

554
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 1: they're generally talking about Genghis or um Or or uh

555
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: Kubla Khan, right when they talk about the Great Khan,

556
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: that none of those guys were around in Columbus's day.

557
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: They were still talking about the Great Khan. The Western

558
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: Khanate had ended, which is like Russia Ish had ended

559
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: in thirteen seventy. In the Eastern Khannate was deep into

560
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: declined by the late four hundreds, but news didn't really

561
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: travel back then, right, So like people just knew that

562
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: a couple hundred years ago the Mongolians had been unstoppable

563
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: and assumed they still were. And one of the things

564
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: that the Mongolians did was fucking absolutely curb stomp um

565
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: a big Muslim empire, like they they fucking melt Baghdad. Basically, Um,

566
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: it is gnarly shit. And so another thing is that,

567
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: like you get these stories from Marco Polo, right, who's

568
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: like a hundred and fifty two hundred years earlier than

569
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: this period um, and still would have been very relevant

570
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: in the day that Columbus is going up, in part

571
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: because Columbus tells the story of like his magical journey

572
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: to Asia while he is captured by Genoese soldiers and

573
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: imprisoned in Genoa, right, Like he's another Italian and he

574
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: like gets captured in a war, and he tells this

575
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: fucking story that's at least the story about how the

576
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: story comes out. Hey, everybody, I screwed up here at

577
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: this point, and at a couple of their points, I

578
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: say Columbus us when I meant to say Marco Polo,

579
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: makes a little bit confusing. I apologize for the error

580
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: and will burn a city in penance. And Columbus one

581
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: of the things he'd said in his purported voyage to

582
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: like hang out with the Great con in Asia is

583
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: that the con was really interested in Christianity, and if

584
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: we could just get some guys to go talk to

585
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: him about Jesus, he might convert, and then we'll be

586
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: able to retake the Holy Land, right because the Mongols

587
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: will do it for us once they're Christian, you know,

588
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: um yeah, um, and so yeah, these are the stories people,

589
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: and particularly people in young Columbus's orbit, would have been

590
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: telling themselves. And we know from his own writings and

591
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: from things he says later he grows up believing all this,

592
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: both that there is a great con with a powerful

593
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: army who's probably you can convert to Christianity if you

594
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: can just he just is waiting for a guy to

595
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: come talk to him, you know, he's just got to

596
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,239
Speaker 1: get the right dude, and he'll be like, all right,

597
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: we're Christians, got him, But we ran out of pamphlets,

598
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: we ran out of pamples. We tell we we got

599
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: right up, we got right up to Jesus, but then

600
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: we no one could tell what had happened after Jesus

601
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: turned like thirty. And so he was like, well, I

602
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: don't see why this is. Yeah, we forgot Bible, got wet,

603
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: got smug, yeah, if only the pope had been there.

604
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: None of us knew what Jesus did because we're not

605
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: allowed to read the Bible in this period, which is

606
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: actually not wildly far from the truth. So Clumbus grows

607
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: up believing all this um, and so probably do most

608
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: of the people around him. Because Jenoa is kind of

609
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: people are pretty fanatically fucking Catholic there. His family is

610
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: middle class, probably upper middle class, although again those terms

611
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: and the fourteen hundreds not super useful for actually understanding

612
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: for one thing, politics Even so, obviously all of the

613
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: city states are constantly murdering each other, all of the

614
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: different political factions in the cities are also constantly murdering

615
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: each other, and so your ability to be like quote

616
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: unquote middle class or whatever is heavily tied to, like

617
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: you being friends with the people who are in power,

618
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: and if they happen to get murdered, which happens constantly,

619
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: ship can change very quickly for you because you're very

620
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: much reliant upon them for like the right to sell

621
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: or buy certain things or get this, you know, whatever

622
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: government job. His father, Domenico, was a cloth weaver who

623
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: does good enough. He makes friends with the people who

624
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: are in charge of the city. When Columbus is a

625
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: little kid, he gets a cushy job at one point,

626
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: like is the gatekeeper, which is a pretty pretty sweet

627
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: gig um. Now, as Columbus grows up, he goes to

628
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: obviously he's he's attending church constantly. The cathedral that he

629
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: would have gone to as a kid was most noted

630
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: by this gigantic fresco. It has of the apocalypse, um,

631
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: which he's probably spending a lot of time thinking about

632
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: the end of the world is. Interestingly, it was the

633
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: first thing he saw and he was gazing upon it

634
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: as he lost his virginity. For some reason, he got

635
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: like really into it. Yeah. It's his star wars, his

636
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: whole personality. Yeah. Um. He he's got like all sorts

637
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: of fucking what do you call them, funco pops of

638
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: like Pagan's wailing as Christ burns them. Um. One of

639
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: the most influential religious minds of his day or slightly

640
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: before his day, would have been the Franciscan monk St. Bernardino,

641
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: who had given famous sermons in Genoa about a generation

642
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: or so before Christopher was born. Bernardino was an apocalyptic preacher.

643
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: He warned evade an imminently coming end time, and he

644
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: would screech that today's Christians had slipped into sin and

645
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: we're in danger of damnation. God was angry at them

646
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: because they weren't Christian enough. YadA YadA, YadA, San Bernardino,

647
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: it's pretty apocalyptic, it is. It is. It's the end

648
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: of days. That is how I feel. We got a

649
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: nu kid, just like the Great Light. Anyway, we'll talk

650
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 1: about that later. Carol Delaney writes, quote, people would gather

651
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: in town squares day after day, sitting for hours listening,

652
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: transfixed by this fascinating but horrific moral tales about the

653
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: wages of sin. Bernardino focused especially on sins committed by witches,

654
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: consorting with the devil, the sin of sodomy, and the

655
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: sin of fraternizing with the Jews. You have to do that,

656
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: it's the only way. Yeah. Specifically, you also are supposed

657
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: to go out sodomy. Sodomy, Yeah, thank you. His sermons

658
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: were important enough they were transcribed, copied, and distributed widely

659
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,879
Speaker 1: by the time Christopher was a kid. When he was nine,

660
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: this fixation with sin and a need to fight for

661
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: God would have been reinforced by the launching of a

662
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: crusade by Pope Pious, the second being a port city.

663
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: Genoa was a major rowling point for crusader, So as

664
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: a little kid, he's probably seen a bunch of guys

665
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: go off to do a crusade, which again doesn't go

666
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: great because none of them do. It is noteworthy that

667
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: young Christopher grows up knowing how to read and write. Um.

668
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: This is not common at the time, and it is

669
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 1: in fact widely agreed upon that his penmanship was gorgeous

670
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: and that he could have made a solid living on

671
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 1: the fact that he was really good at writing. Maybe

672
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: done that, then maybe he gigs should have done that.

673
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 1: We aren't certain where he learned to read and write.

674
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: His family was friendly with a group of wealthy nobles,

675
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: the decun Eos, who will be relevant later in the story. Um.

676
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: It's also possible that he attended classes with them, just

677
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: because like they're like, oh, yeah, you know, we've got

678
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: a tutor for our rich kids. You're a friend of

679
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: the family, come on, learn how to read. It's he

680
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: also might have just gotten educated through the guild that

681
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: his father belonged to. Guilds are kind of doing running

682
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: a lot of civil society in Genoa, and they do

683
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 1: provide educations kids of people who are in guilds. Sometimes.

684
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: It's worth noting also that because Genoa's a port city

685
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: and the economy focused entirely around maritime trade, the fall

686
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,760
Speaker 1: of Constantinople leads to like economic shit fuck for Genoa.

687
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: To make matters worse, the French, who are allied with

688
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: some of Genoa's enemy city states, are like in the

689
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: period where he is a child and a young man,

690
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: steadily raiding Genoa and shipping and dominating its economy. Um

691
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: Lawrence Burgreen, author of Columbus the Four Voyages, notes that

692
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: there are rumors that the Columbus family had once been

693
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: half wealthy, but, like Jittewah, had fallen from their past

694
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 1: glory by the time Christopher came into the picture. Burgreen

695
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: proposes that he may have been motivated to regain that

696
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: lost glory and build a legacy for himself because both

697
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: his city and his family used to be doing good.

698
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: You think a guy named christ Pharaoh might have grandiosity

699
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: or like yes, yeah, well it doesn't. It does a

700
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: little bit. It does a little bit. You're not that

701
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: far from Egypt. So in late fourteen fifty nine. When

702
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: Columbus was around eight, his family home was fifty yards

703
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: from the Porta to San Andrea, where the doge, who's

704
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: basically the mayor of the town, gets cornered by a

705
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: gang of rivals who were backed by the French and

706
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: like murdered in the street. Like he's beaten to death

707
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: with iron rods and his corpses torn apart in front

708
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: of everybody. This is fifty yards from Columbus's front door.

709
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: There's a good chance he watches this, right, like a

710
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: pretty good shot. He's just looking at this from his

711
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: window or something. Um and his father is allied with

712
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: the guy who gets torn apart in the streets. So

713
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: this is this causes problems? Is good? Get a load

714
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: of this. This is his This is his watching the

715
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: Rugrats on Nickelodeon. You know, is seeing this man torn

716
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,919
Speaker 1: apart in front of his death? Is that an iron rod?

717
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: That's pretty good? Yes, that's the Uh, that's the I

718
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: don't know Simpson's season four of His Child, the iron

719
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: Rod would be Angelica clearly. Oh okay, that's fair. I

720
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: was gonna just I was going to compare that that

721
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: man getting torn apart and beaten to death in front

722
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: of his house to the Mono rail episode. But yeah,

723
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 1: it's all so. I can't emphasize enough just how religious

724
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: his upbringing would have been. The Genoese, for all of

725
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: the fact that they're Italians and sailors, are a dour

726
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: and joyless people. They are members of a fucking death cult,

727
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: which is pre millennial Catholicism. And in order to make

728
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 1: that point, I want to quote from Lawrence burg Green's

729
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: book Now. Clothing worn by the Genoese was strictly regulated

730
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: by the Office of Virtue. Beginning in thirty nine. The

731
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: Office and forced a series of sumptuary laws to regulate

732
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: morality by curbing luxury and excess, as well as prostitution.

733
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 1: These laws limited the amount of money Genoese could spend

734
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: on luxury items and even on weddings limited to fifty guests.

735
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: They regulated the days on which prostitutes, a staple of

736
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: Genoese nightlife, could roam the streets. They measured their time

737
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: with clients by the half hour marked by a flickering candle.

738
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: Girls with a candle, as the prostitutes were known, were

739
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: forbidden to inter a cemetery or approach at shirts, and

740
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: had to wear insignia indicating their profession. If caught out

741
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: of bounds, the prostitutes were punished by having their noses

742
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: amputated and their livelihood ruined. Holy shine again, not fun people,

743
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: Um no, it It never surprises me when it's like

744
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: and they were executed, But when it's so specific, when

745
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: they're like and their left eye was plucked out and

746
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: pins to their breast and they wore it for a week. Damn. Yeah,

747
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: they really put a lot of put a lot of

748
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: work on the back end the this. So these sumptuary

749
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: laws mandated that men should wear only gray clothing. Red

750
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: and purple were strictly forbidden. Women had limits on how

751
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: much jewelry they could own and how much money they

752
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: could spend on dresses. They were fined if they violated

753
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: these limits. Adultery also had a series of fines, and

754
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: a woman who failed to pay her adultery fine would

755
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: be beheaded. Um. It is unclear if Columbus found these

756
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: rules stifling, as he was a religious extremist himself, but

757
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: he also spends most of his life in Lisbon, Spain,

758
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 1: or like in Portugal in Spain, or at sea, so

759
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 1: like maybe he kind of was like Jesus, fuck genous bullshit,

760
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: he's living over them. But he does. He does get

761
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: the funk out of there about as quickly as he can.

762
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: Feels to love the city. So it feels like the

763
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 1: dad from the Witch would get the funk out of there. Yeah,

764
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: it does. It does feel like this is like, yeah,

765
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: it's a little stern for me. We're going to live

766
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: in the woods. Yeah. So we don't know when he

767
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: goes sailing for the first time, but I say, Genoese boy,

768
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: he would not have lacked opportunities to do so. Later

769
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: in life, he wrote that he started sailing at a

770
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: young age and that he was particularly drawn to the

771
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: art of navigation, which he said, quote incites those who

772
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: pursue it to inquire into the secrets of the world.

773
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: For whatever reason, I often find myself reiterating to the

774
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: audience that from most of Western history fourteen counted as

775
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: an adult, and so when Christopher was that age, he

776
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: starts working full time as a sailor. Um he probably

777
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: started out sailing on a caravel, which is a sail

778
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: bearing merchant vessel mainly was supposed to like kind of

779
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: stick either close to the rivers or to the coastline. Um.

780
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: And he seems to have been good at this enough

781
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: that he's signed on for several more trips. This is dangerous,

782
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: backbreaking work. Young sailors are made to do the kind

783
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: of tasks that older men with their ruined joints and

784
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: off broken bones, could no longer handle. Um. As is

785
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: always the case when young boys put to sea, there

786
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: was a significant risk of being sodomized. UM. We have

787
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: no information about this whatsoever, so I'm not gonna like

788
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: belabor the point, but like, that's that. If that the

789
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: fact of sea life. Yeah, UM. Refer to the Pogues

790
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: album Rum Sodomy in the Lash for more information on

791
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: that part of sailing. UM. In addition to the obvious

792
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: dangers of the sea, in the fourteen hundreds, Italian sailors

793
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: in the Mediterranean lived under constant threat of attack. Every

794
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: city in Italy was always at war with every other city,

795
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: and they can always like if you're always allowed to

796
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: be a pirate to other Italians. UM. So Italians haven't

797
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 1: changed all that much in the last couple hundred years.

798
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: It is not unlikely that Christopher would have found himself

799
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 1: in the midst of several small neighbors naval skirmishes in

800
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: his early twenties. All we know for certain, though, is

801
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: that by the time he was twenty one, he had

802
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 1: mastered the skills of a sailor, and he had proven

803
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: himself to be a particularly gifted navigator. He had also

804
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: developed a talent for manipulation. I'm gonna quote from Carol

805
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: Delaney here. He was commissioned by King Renee of Andrew,

806
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: who would continue to oversee the government of Savona, to

807
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: capture a galleus, a very large, three massive galley that

808
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: included rowers as well as sales, off the coast of Tunas.

809
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: En route, Columbus learned that in addition to the gallias,

810
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: there were two ships and a carrick, which frightened my people,

811
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: and they regard resolved to go no further but to

812
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: return to Marseilles to pick up another ship and more men. I,

813
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,439
Speaker 1: seeing that I could do nothing against their wills without

814
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: some ruse, agreed to their demand, and, changing the point

815
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: of the compass, made it sail at nightfall, and at

816
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: sunrise the next day we found ourselves off Cape Carthage.

817
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: While all aboard were certain we will bound for Marseilles,

818
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,439
Speaker 1: so he like as the navigator secretly takes them into

819
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: battle when they think they're going back for reinforcements because

820
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to like funk up this deal he's

821
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: got going on with this king. And one of the

822
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: things that saves him on this because this goes pretty

823
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: well for them. Genoese are like the best sailors. They

824
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: are famously good at fighting at sea. Um The first

825
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: time we can confirm Christopher experienced ship to ship combat

826
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: was in fourteen seventy six when he was twenty five

827
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: and his convoy. So he's in a convoy of ships

828
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: and they get accosted by a group of French privateers

829
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: allied with an Italian city state, and they're outnumbered. I

830
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: think it's something like two to one. Like this is

831
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 1: a disastrous looking battle, but the Genoese lose three ships,

832
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: including the boat that Columbus is on, and the attackers

833
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: lose four hundreds and hundreds of minde And this is

834
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: they have like rudimentary guns and cannons at this point.

835
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: For the most part, they're slamming their boats into each

836
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: other and beating each other to death with sticks and

837
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: knives at close range and lighting each other on fire.

838
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: With patrole. It is a nightmare like and he fights

839
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: in this battle. He fights in this battle, very nearly dies.

840
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: His ship sinks and he has to swim six miles

841
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: to shore, clinging to an oar. Um like this is

842
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 1: it is. It is very unlikely that he survives the

843
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: circumstances he finds themselves in, but he manages to do it.

844
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: Um and yes, um, he finds himself in Lagos in Portugal. Um.

845
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: They take care of him because there's generally all the

846
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: seafaring cities, like even if they're at war or and

847
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: I like, well, if you're a sailor who like washes up,

848
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: we have a duty to like take care of you,

849
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: because that's just kind of good business, you know, for everybody. Um.

850
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: So they take they they they patch him up, and

851
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: he eventually gets back in the convoy which had survived

852
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: the battle, and he finishes his voyage in London. Um.

853
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 1: While he's in London, he takes on another gig and

854
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: he actually sails as far north as Iceland, which at

855
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: that point is known as Thule. I think it's actually

856
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: pronounced tula um. Now it was during this far northern

857
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 1: voyage that Christopher first felt the easterly currents of the Atlantic,

858
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: which helped to inspire an idea in him. If he

859
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 1: were to voyage far to the west, beyond the roots

860
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 1: known to any European, he could probably count on those

861
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: eastern currents to carry him back to Europe. It was

862
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: also on this trip that he visited Galway, where several

863
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: frozen dead bodies had washed up and they appeared. Columbus

864
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,280
Speaker 1: says that they're Asian people. He has never met anybody

865
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: from that part of the world. He has read descriptions

866
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: in Marco Polo, and these are water logged corpses. Who

867
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: knows what dead people he encountered. Three John Wayne yea like,

868
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: he has no idea who these people are. He decides

869
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: they're probably from like China, um. And he concludes because

870
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 1: of these waterlogged corpses that Asia is much closer to

871
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: western Europe on the western side than previously guessed. Right,

872
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: So he's like, look at these Yeah, so you can

873
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: see things coming together based largely on like a mix

874
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: of accurate things. Yes, those currents can in fact carry

875
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: you back from you know, the West to to to Europe. Um.

876
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 1: Just look at this bloated corpse. What do you mean

877
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: why this dead body, dead ass motherfucker means that I'm

878
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: gonna get rich. So in between his voyages, Christopher settles

879
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: into a new life in Lisbon among the expat Genoese

880
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: community there. Again, they're the best sailors pretty much in

881
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: the Mediterranean, so like they're kind of in demand everywhere

882
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: else that has sports. So they set up a lot

883
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 1: of different like little little Lisbon. Everybody wears gray and

884
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: traffics children ums video game. They are very super good at. Yes,

885
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: the sex trafficking doesn't make it into syn I never

886
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: unlocked that perk. See, that's why you're That's why you

887
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: keep losing. Michael always um. So he gets married in

888
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: fourteen seventy nine. She's going to dive right away, don't worry.

889
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: And he has a child, Diego. In fourteen eighty um

890
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 1: now his wife's father, participated in Portugal's first colonizing mission

891
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 1: UM in Porto Santo between Europe and Africa. The island

892
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 1: is Portugal's base of operations for their colonizing in Africa,

893
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: which had started in this period. Portugal is starting to

894
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 1: operate and it's not This is not colonization in the

895
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: sense that you are going to see it later during

896
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: the scrambled to Africa, where they are taking in and

897
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: governing large land masses, they are setting up kind of

898
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: trading missions on the African coast right um. And it's

899
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: here that we're going to need to leave Carol Delaney's

900
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,919
Speaker 1: account of Columbus's life behind, because she leaves this part

901
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: entirely out. This is the first major bit of whitewashing

902
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: and her Columbus in Jerusalem book she Uh. She does

903
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the time he spends on

904
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: the African coast. She notes that in late fourteen eight

905
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: one or early fourteen eighty two he participates in a

906
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: trip to Portuguese controlled Ghana. Um. For a bunch of

907
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: complicated reasons we don't need to get into, the Pope

908
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: had given Portugal the right to handle all trade on

909
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: the West African coast. Only Portugal gets to do that

910
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: in this period. This comes with the rights to enslave

911
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: any Pagans or Muslims they encounter. Now, again, this is slavery.

912
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: This is not yet racial slavery, because if people convert

913
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: to Christianity before they're enslaved, they cannot be enslaved. So

914
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 1: this is religious slavery, right, like that is the basis

915
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: for it, as opposed to what's going to be the

916
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: basis for it in the future. Um, which is not

917
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: on the night, but it's different. And hung up on

918
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 1: the fact that it's the pope's call, decides he gets

919
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: the right to go to spoil after Yeah, it's the

920
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: and he said and he says Portugal. Um. So Delaney

921
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: mentions this that like they have the right to enslave

922
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 1: people that they encounter on their yeah. Um. But she

923
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: spends most of her time just talking about like, so

924
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,959
Speaker 1: there's these series of beliefs that Europeans have about skin

925
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 1: color in the equator. It is generally taken that people's

926
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: skin gets darker closer to the equator. There are some

927
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 1: attendant racial beliefs that are kind of like the early

928
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 1: stirrings of the kind of white racial hierarchy that's going

929
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 1: to be in place not that far in the future.

930
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: This is where like those ideas are coming together. But

931
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 1: there's this understanding that like, people near the equator have

932
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: darker skin, they are very smart, but they can't control

933
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 1: their emotions, whereas people who are like further north are

934
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: are dumb but calm and then like people who were

935
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: in people in Europe are the perfect balance of everything.

936
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 1: So that's why they're the best. This is more or

937
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: less their understanding of like. And they also at the

938
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 1: same time, again because everyone's very dumb back then, they

939
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 1: believe that all metal is the same thing, and that

940
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: the closer you get to the equator, the more time

941
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: metal has to like ripen and that's what makes it gold.

942
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: So they there's this is valuable context for what comes

943
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 1: next that Europeans of the time belief your skin gets

944
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: darker closer to you to the equator, and all medalist

945
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: metal and you find gold at the equator. Right. Um.

946
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: This is again why he winds up because again you

947
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: think about Columbus is trying to sail west to find land.

948
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't he start his voyage like from the coast

949
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,320
Speaker 1: of Iberi, you know, further north or further north in

950
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: Europe as opposed to he sails to the Canary Islands

951
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,399
Speaker 1: and then he goes to the Caribbean. He goes down

952
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,399
Speaker 1: south because the equators where you find gold. Right Um.

953
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 1: So it's because of these beliefs that he picks the

954
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: route that he picks. Um. So this is valuable context

955
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: for what comes next. But Carol Delaney, just when she

956
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: talks about columbus time on the African coast, this is

957
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: all she talks about, Like the geographical knowledge acquires, his

958
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 1: growing understanding of winds and currents, the notes he makes

959
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: in his log book, that's all the detail. Like this

960
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: line here is about all of the detail you get

961
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: about Columbus's time and Ghana. Quote. With a new information

962
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 1: about winds and currents that Columbus absorbed on this trip,

963
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: combined with his belief about the width of the ocean,

964
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: he concluded that the ocean could be crossed and then

965
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: on the far side of it, in the same climactic zone,

966
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: there would be gold. Now again that's not useless context,

967
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: But if you have an inquisitive mind, you might be

968
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: going hmm, right now, he probably I bet he did

969
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: other stuff when he was on the coast of Africa,

970
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: because he spends eight years in Lisbon, and he makes

971
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: a number of voyages for Portugal. And in order to

972
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: talk about what he's doing in that period, I'm going

973
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: to quote now from the book The Other Slavery by

974
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: Andres Riscindez Andre Racinda. Sorry, the early Portuguese slave trade

975
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:52,479
Speaker 1: assumed several forms, from inherited slavery to indentured servitude forced

976
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 1: labor for a fixed period of time, occasionally with modest wages.

977
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: This was the form of slavery with which Columbus was familiar.

978
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: He briefly wrote a about his experimenting with importing entire

979
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: families from Guinea to Portugal, not just men, and his

980
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: disappointment that the experiment did not ensure greater loyalty or

981
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 1: cooperation among the slaves. The problem, as Columbus saw it,

982
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: was the babble of tongues spoken in Guinea. Now, the

983
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: fact that Columbus is importing entire enslaving and importing entire

984
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: families from the African coast to Europe, Carol the Lady

985
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 1: doesn't think that's worth talking about, because she makes a

986
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: major the through line in her book is that he

987
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: wasn't pro slavery, and he was horrified at the fact

988
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: that people kept getting enslaved, like it's one of those

989
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: like casablanga gambling occurring in this establishment moments um, but

990
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: with you know, the ownership of human beings. She's like,

991
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: we was there, he accrued people he didn't like slavery.

992
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: She completely leaves out the fact that he is he

993
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 1: is enslaving and importing entire families into Europe in this

994
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: period of time. Um. Now, obviously this is again pretty

995
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: normal behavior for a guy at the time. The slavery

996
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 1: that the Portuguese are engaged in is not pretty. But

997
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: again it's also not what it is going to become yet. Um.

998
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: But he is enslaving people. He is in the business

999
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: of being a slave trader way before he is sailing

1000
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: to the New World. So when we talk about what

1001
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: comes later, slavery is not something that does not come

1002
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: naturally to Christopher Columbus. But Michael, it's time for a

1003
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 1: word from our sponsors, and I want to talk about

1004
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: a special thing that we're supporting today. Michael, you love

1005
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: the environment, right, I'll think about it, big fan, big

1006
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 1: fan of Look, we'll see. I think we can all agree.

1007
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: Wastefulness one of the major problems that that our species. Right,

1008
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 1: we're waiting. Half of the food grown in the United States,

1009
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 1: you know, gets gets wasted. Um. You know, vampire drain,

1010
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: which is just the power we use on devices that

1011
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: no one is using, just completely unnecessary power drain multiple

1012
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: countries you know, could be powered by what we were

1013
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: very wasteful people, and nothing embodies that better than our

1014
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons stockpiles. Michael. Did you know that the United

1015
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: States spent trillions of dollars building a nuclear arsenal, researching

1016
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons from the time of the Cold Warp to

1017
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: the present day and we never use those weapons after

1018
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: nineteen forty five? Did you know that? Michael? Horrible? Wait,

1019
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: it occurs to me that that's a waste now, Michael,

1020
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: m in order to be environmentally friendly, I think we

1021
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: got to use those nukes, and nowhere makes more sense

1022
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: the nuking the Great Lakes now, Michael, I know this

1023
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 1: is a controversial thing. I'd like to make two points.

1024
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 1: Number one number one, Sophie number one, all of those

1025
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 1: cities basically Canadian right. Number two. Michael. Are you a fan?

1026
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: Are you yeah? Yeah, yeah exactly? Are you a fan

1027
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: of the song the Wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald very much?

1028
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: Great song? Lake Superior is killing our sailors, killed our sailors.

1029
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 1: We wouldn't have that, We wouldn't have that song. Well,

1030
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 1: but we have the song, I mean, but it's such

1031
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 1: a sad nuke it Now, protect our Sailors nuke the

1032
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: Great Lakes. This has been sponsored especially here rock It

1033
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: Knows Why. This has been a podcast ad for Behind

1034
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 1: the Bastards, sponsored by the Committee to Nuke the Great Lakes.

1035
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: No Ah, We're back. So Columbus the slave trader comes

1036
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 1: along away from his time enslaving people in order to

1037
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: profit um for Portugal, convinced that he could sail west

1038
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: and reach Asia. This would allow him to avoid the

1039
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: Muslim blockade on trade. From that part of the word,

1040
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: it's not really a blockade, but it like it makes

1041
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: it a lot more expensive and difficult. Whenever you have

1042
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: political ship with the Ottoman Empire, they're not going to

1043
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: let you trade, so it's like a problem for the Christians. Um.

1044
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: So he sees this both as if we can get

1045
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 1: to Asia from the west, number one, we can get

1046
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: all their good ship. Number two, we can get all

1047
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 1: that gold, because if we can get down, if there's

1048
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: this landet, there's probably a funckload of gold there um,

1049
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: and we can convert all these goodwilled heathens, who, as

1050
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: we know from Marco Polo, are just waiting for a

1051
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: guy who likes Jesus enough, and then they're gonna they're

1052
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 1: all gonna give up whatever they've been doing, you know. Um,

1053
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: it's it's gonna be fine. Um. And yes, the Ottomans

1054
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 1: are an obstacle, as they so often are asked, Dick

1055
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: van Dyke, Oh, I'm sorry for that? Was that was good?

1056
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: That was not good? You go ahead, No, that was fine.

1057
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: That was fine because the only person who's committed more

1058
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 1: genocidean than Christopher Columbus is famously Dick Vandy. The walnuts

1059
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: that came out of closet each represented a village that

1060
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: he That's right, that's right, right, that's right. That's why

1061
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 1: I don't know how to continue this bit anyway, as

1062
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: one scholar Columbus exchanged letters with said quote. It will

1063
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 1: also be a voyage to kings and princes who are

1064
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: very eager to have friendly dealings in speech with the

1065
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: Christians of our countries because many of them are Christians.

1066
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 1: So again, they also believe that there's all these Christians

1067
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: stuck over in Asia who are like isolated from broader

1068
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: Christendom that they can like make deals with. This is

1069
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: not entirely There are like groups of Christians in the

1070
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 1: East that like are kind of separated from the main

1071
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 1: there's like a Storian Christians and stuff. So it's not

1072
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 1: this doesn't come out of nowhere, right, But obviously, like

1073
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: among other things there there there winds up. You may

1074
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: not know this, Michael. There's actually a couple of continents

1075
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: in between Europe and Asia and the West, Like, yeah,

1076
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: they're pretty big ones. Um. So much of the next

1077
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: bit of stuff is things you're going to remember from

1078
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: your time in middle school social studies class. Columbus spends

1079
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 1: years going all of the rich people, the nobles and

1080
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: kings that are listened to him. He tries to sell

1081
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: them on his grand scheme to cross the ocean. Uh.

1082
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: This brings us back to Carol Delaney because she is

1083
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: very much in the right by trying to return to

1084
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: a historic understanding of the fact that Christopher Columbus is

1085
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: not motivated primarily by a desire to explore or to

1086
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: some cap realistic urge to find new markets. He is

1087
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: a religious extremist and he wants to sail west in

1088
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: order to fund a holy war. Now, during this period

1089
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: he's living in Lisbon, he starts reading the Bible, and

1090
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: this is a weird thing for him to do. People

1091
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: don't read the Bible back then, Right, normal people do not.

1092
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: Most of them are illiterate for one thing. And there's

1093
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: also a strong understanding, sometimes enforced through law, that the

1094
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: Word of God is not supposed to be consumed directly

1095
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: by worshippers. It is supposed to be transmitted through the

1096
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: clergy to worshippers. Right. Um, But Columbus starts reading the

1097
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: Bible for himself, and it's only available in Latin. Right,

1098
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: You're not getting the Bible in other languages. It's considered

1099
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: kind of like sacrilege to translate the Bible. Um. So

1100
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: he starts reading the Bible, and he's he's he's starting

1101
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: to read the Bible primarily because he wants to calculate

1102
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: when the end of the world is coming, because he

1103
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: needs to he he knows that Christians have to reconquer Jerusalem,

1104
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: and he's trying to figure out, like how much time

1105
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: is on the clock? Right, how much time do we

1106
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: have to retake? This is he is the end of

1107
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: the world. He is the end of the world. Yes, um, quote,

1108
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: there were there were sev hundred and fifty nine years left,

1109
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: plenty of time for fifteenth century Christians to complete the

1110
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: necessary tasks before the end time. Twenty years later, however,

1111
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: Columbus revisited and revised his calculations and drastically reduced the

1112
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,439
Speaker 1: number of years left to a hundred and fifty five.

1113
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 1: It his earlier vision had been focused primarily on wrestling

1114
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: Jerusalem from the Muslims, he was now beginning to see

1115
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: that it as an integral part of the world historical

1116
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: drama that would culminate in the end of the world.

1117
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: So again, his goal is to end all life on Earth.

1118
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: That that is, that is his motivation. What a fortunate

1119
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 1: coincidence that after revisiting the information, it turns out I'm

1120
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: the most important one to ever live and it's all

1121
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: gonna happen during my watch under my auspices. Yeah, I

1122
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: am the special boy who gets to end all life

1123
00:59:55,520 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 1: on Earth. Um, that's that's a pretty again shoot for

1124
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: those stars. So you land on the moon or whatever.

1125
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: He almost got there. There's a lot of people who

1126
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 1: are like, I want to sail to this place. People

1127
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 1: haven't been able as far as I'm aware of that,

1128
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: people have never sailed you before. And there's also a

1129
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 1: lot of people who are like, I'm fine with selling slaves.

1130
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: Not a lot of people are saying, I am taking

1131
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 1: personal responsibility for harolding the apocalypse. I would like the

1132
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: versus of the beast and leash the energy of God

1133
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: upon the people. And that's you know, it's quite a

1134
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: goal when you grow up. Yeah, the bringer of the

1135
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: end of all things. Wait, wait in a good way,

1136
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: in a good way. Yeah. Yeah. So, like many fanatics

1137
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 1: before and after, he saw himself as a key ingredient

1138
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 1: in God's plan, and he came to believe that his

1139
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: budding understanding of how he might sail west to Asia

1140
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:51,439
Speaker 1: was a key aspect in God's design. Quote. He knew

1141
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: that another crusade would be necessary if Jerusalem was to

1142
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: be retaken from the Muslims. He knew that there was

1143
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 1: enough gold in the East to finance such a crusade.

1144
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: He also knew that if the Grand con and his

1145
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: people could be converted, as seemed likely, he could count

1146
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 1: on their support. Yeah. So, many of us probably did

1147
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: learn in school that Columbus believed the world was round

1148
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 1: and most people thought it was flat. I think this

1149
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 1: has been debunked fairly well. Anyone who thought about it

1150
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: was probably true that a lot of people didn't think

1151
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: about the shape of the world because like there's plagues

1152
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 1: and stuff like you got shipped to do. But anybody

1153
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: who sailed and navigated knew that the earth was broadly spherical.

1154
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: Columbus was not a trailblazer here, and in fact his

1155
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: understanding in theories. But he's terrible at geography. Um. He

1156
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: felt that Asia was so huge that there was very

1157
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: little ocean between Europe and Asia, and generally he believed

1158
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 1: that like a sixth of the land's surface was ocean

1159
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: and the rest of it is all land. Um. He

1160
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 1: also ended his life thinking the earth was pear shaped

1161
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: rather than round. So again, not great at the stuff

1162
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: that everyone gave him credit for when we were kids. Um.

1163
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: Most of Columbus attempts to convince Royalty to back his

1164
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 1: plan failed. The King of Portugal is more interested in

1165
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 1: getting around the Horn of Africa. Um. He's also put

1166
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 1: off by Columbus's list of demands for carrying out the exploration,

1167
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: which are bug fuck and I'm gonna quote from Bear

1168
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 1: Green's book Columbus only Green Eminem's upon the ship. It's

1169
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 1: kind of worse than that. The personal demands that Columbus

1170
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: made of King Juo were far more onerous and unrealistic.

1171
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: He wanted a title preparably Night of the Golden Spurs

1172
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 1: that would permit him and his descendants to style themselves Dawn.

1173
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: He also wished for himself the grandest title he could

1174
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: think of, Admiral of the Ocean Sea, with all the

1175
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: privileges of rank, prerogatives, rights, revenue, and immunities enjoyed by

1176
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 1: the admirals of Castile. Even to Portuguese ears accustomed to overstatement,

1177
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: this description verged on the absurd. A tireless conversationalist and

1178
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: self promoter, Columbus never knew when to stop, and he

1179
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: demanded an appointment as viceroy and governor in perpetuity of

1180
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: all the lands and terra firma discovered either personally by

1181
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 1: him or as a result of his voyage, And he

1182
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 1: planned to award himself one tenth of all the money's

1183
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: accruing to the Crown in respective gold, silver, per jim's metal, spices,

1184
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: and other articles of value and merchandise of whatever kind, nature,

1185
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: or variety that should be purchased barter, discovered or won

1186
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 1: in battle through the length and breadth of the lands

1187
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 1: under his jurisdiction. So he doesn't just want to discover things.

1188
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 1: He wants to personally be the emperor of everything discovered

1189
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 1: under the King of Portugal, but he wants it to

1190
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 1: be his property whatever they find. Basically, he wants the

1191
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: elden ring and the iron throne. So that again it's

1192
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: not to say that he's not greedy, he's in this

1193
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: extraordinarily greedy man. It's also that his greed is focused

1194
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: on he wants to build riches so that he can

1195
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: contribute to the conquest of Jerusalem and in the world.

1196
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: Um So his demands are extreme and outlandish, and Burgery

1197
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: notes that he was basically trying to He was basically saying, Hey,

1198
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: if I do this, you have to make me almost

1199
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 1: as powerful as you, King of Portugal. Um. Now, the

1200
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:56,160
Speaker 1: Portuguese king. For a little bit of context, this guy

1201
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 1: once stabbed his child nephew to death in a jealous rage.

1202
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 1: So this is like not a man you funk with.

1203
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 1: And in fact, a lot of historians are kind of

1204
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: surprised that Columbus doesn't just get murdered for saying this

1205
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,439
Speaker 1: kind of ship to the King of Portugal. Well, they're

1206
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 1: in the middle of an iron rod shortage and this

1207
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: this dude, again, the king of Portugal is a crazed,

1208
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: violent narcissist, and he's like, Wow, this Christopher Columbus dude

1209
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 1: is a crazy narcissist. Yeah, Jesus, this guy needs therapy.

1210
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 1: Am I right? Oh? I stabbed you to death? Sorry? Um, So, Christopher,

1211
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 1: you know things don't work out. There's some back and

1212
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 1: forth with Portugal. We're not going to go into tremendous

1213
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 1: to dale about all this. Christopher tries with other sovereigns.

1214
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 1: He since his brother Bartholomew, who's like better at talking

1215
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: to England, to try and convince that king to fund

1216
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 1: the voyage. He doesn't have any luck with that. Eventually,

1217
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: at age forty and kind of feeling like because at

1218
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 1: forty you're kind of old to be a sea captain,

1219
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: he travels to Spain, which is kind of his last hope,

1220
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 1: right that like, maybe I can convince these fucking monarchs

1221
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: to fund my ship. Now again, he's an old man.

1222
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 1: He's starting to panic that, like he's never going to

1223
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 1: get to do these things that he think God wants

1224
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 1: him to do. Um. But over the course of several years,

1225
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 1: he manages to like wrangle an audience with Queen Isabella

1226
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 1: and King Ferdinand. A lot of this is because he's

1227
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 1: he gets in good with a bunch of monks, and

1228
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: like there's some like rich dude who visits the monks,

1229
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 1: and the rich dude is like, this is a good idea.

1230
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 1: I know the king and queen and it's a whole process.

1231
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 1: You can learn all of the history if you want

1232
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: by reading about it. I think it's kind of boring. Yeah, exactly,

1233
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: it worked right. And both of these Ferdinand and Isabella

1234
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 1: again for first off, not a love match. Um, not

1235
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 1: very similar people. Um. Both of them had just spent

1236
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: the last few years unifying Spain, which is a pretty

1237
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 1: violent process. Uh. They kick out all of the Muslims

1238
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 1: or force them to convert. They also force all of

1239
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: the Jewish people to convert or leave. Uh. They like

1240
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 1: ethnically cleanse all of the Jewish people who won't leave

1241
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: their religion, and those people have to sail to the

1242
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 1: Ottoman Empire, which is like the only place that will

1243
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: take them. Um, it's a pretty gnarly process. There's an inquisition,

1244
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 1: right that happened in this period. There's all these crimes

1245
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 1: against humanity. Maybe we'll talk about it one of these days.

1246
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 1: These are not nice people, which is fun because they're

1247
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 1: both going to be much more moral people than Christopher

1248
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 1: Columbus as the story goes on. Um, but I just

1249
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: want you to know, these are the Inquisition people. So

1250
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 1: when we're talking about them being outraged at Christopher Columbus's behavior,

1251
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: it's the people who started the Inquisition who are like, Wow,

1252
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 1: this guy is not very like very uh like bad person. Um. Anyway,

1253
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 1: Christopher manages to get a sit down meeting with the

1254
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: Queen and may have a six for the first time.

1255
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: Carol Delaney make sure to note that he's hot, which

1256
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 1: is a little weird, But then Bear Green also kind

1257
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 1: of says that he's hot, so maybe he was hot. Um.

1258
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 1: He is a charismatic dude obviously because he's he talks

1259
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 1: them into this eventually, so yeah, maybe he's hot. I

1260
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 1: don't know. Um. He does succeed in talking to King

1261
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 1: and Queen into funding his expedition, mainly the Queen. The

1262
01:06:57,360 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 1: King never really buys into Columbus, but like his whye

1263
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 1: is on board and he's like, what are you gonna do?

1264
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: You know? Gems this way some gems see what happened,

1265
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 1: and this is a law he has to follow. He's

1266
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 1: kind of like following the King and Queen for half

1267
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: a decade while they finish the series of battles to

1268
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: like unify their realm Um. He actually fights in a

1269
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 1: battle to take the city of Bassa in Granada in

1270
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 1: order to impress them, um, and apparently fights very well.

1271
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: Like yeah, like they He goes to war for them

1272
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 1: and stuff during this period to try to convince them

1273
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 1: to let him take a bunch of boats. Um, they

1274
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 1: conquered Granada. Uh. And despite the fact that a commission

1275
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 1: they convene to study his proposal is like, this is impossible,

1276
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: Queen Isabella decides to trust Columbus more than her advisors

1277
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: and she approved the expedition. Uh. Ferdinand again doesn't fight

1278
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 1: his wife on the matter. Now you know what comes next, right.

1279
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: In four ninety two, Columbus sails his ass across the

1280
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 1: Ocean Blue in three ships, the Nina, the Pinta, the

1281
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 1: Santa Maria. He set sail on August third, fourto um

1282
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 1: one bit of fun trivia. The Nina and the Pinta

1283
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 1: are assembled last minute by a Spanish town that had

1284
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 1: like piste off the King and Queen and owed them

1285
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:09,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of money. So like two thirds of the

1286
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 1: fleet was built at the last minute as kind of

1287
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 1: a bribe. The ships are technically the property of these

1288
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 1: brothers who Columbus has going to have an issue with,

1289
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 1: But we'll talk about that in the next episode. Um,

1290
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 1: I'm not going we'll do even better than that. You'll

1291
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:28,639
Speaker 1: see as they shook their fists at the diminishing boats

1292
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,840
Speaker 1: and I almost figured it out. Um, So I'm not

1293
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:33,839
Speaker 1: going to go into a lot of detail about the voyage.

1294
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 1: It's worth noting that Columbus was the thing that he's

1295
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:40,560
Speaker 1: best at is navigating, not geography. He's constantly wrong and

1296
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 1: he gets into a lot of trouble and gets other

1297
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 1: people into trouble because he refuses to accept that he's

1298
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 1: terrible at like geography, but he's incredible at what's called

1299
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 1: dead reckoning. And this is I don't this sounds like

1300
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 1: magic to me. You're basically sitting in a dark room

1301
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 1: building charts and estimating distances based on compass readings that

1302
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,920
Speaker 1: you've taken. And normally when people do dead reckoning, they

1303
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:06,599
Speaker 1: have other data that, like other sailors have taken sailing

1304
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:08,640
Speaker 1: the same route, so they're just kind of modifying it

1305
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 1: slightly in order to like optimize the route. No one

1306
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 1: has done this route before. So Christopher is flying purely

1307
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 1: on instinct and just like doing math in his cabin

1308
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:22,559
Speaker 1: to figure out how to get from the Canary Islands

1309
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 1: to the Caribbean, and the route he picks is still

1310
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 1: to this day basically the best sail route between Europe

1311
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 1: and the Caribbean. Like, if you're sailing that distance, you

1312
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 1: more or less do just what Columbus figures out without

1313
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:38,519
Speaker 1: any benefit of anything but like a compass, and like

1314
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 1: his ability to do math. It is an astounding achievement

1315
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 1: in navigation. Samuel Morrison, who's a Harvard sailor who recreated

1316
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 1: Colubus Voyage in nine nine wrote when he was analyzing,

1317
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:52,600
Speaker 1: he did the whole bit he does he kills so

1318
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 1: many people. Yeah Harvard, uh quote, No such dead reckoning

1319
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 1: navigators exist today, No man alive limited to the instruments

1320
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:03,760
Speaker 1: and means that Columbus's disposal could obtain anything near the

1321
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: accuracy of his results. Um so he's pretty good at

1322
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:12,800
Speaker 1: this one thing, perfect pitch of navigating. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1323
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,599
Speaker 1: that's the thing that he's good at. Um. Credit where

1324
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:18,640
Speaker 1: it's due. Now, as we're all aware again bad at

1325
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:23,519
Speaker 1: actual geography. He sure knew his way around this old pair. Yeah,

1326
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:28,599
Speaker 1: well a little bit of it. Um. So he lands eventually,

1327
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 1: after like thirty three days, on a little island off

1328
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: the coast of Hispaniola or modern day Haiti in the

1329
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 1: Dominican Republic Um. Here is how Carol Delaney describes the

1330
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 1: moment of their first landing quote as the anchors were dropped,

1331
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: the men stood on the decks and gazed at the

1332
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 1: green island, a soothing site after so long at sea

1333
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 1: with only gray, blue water and sky, and saw naked people.

1334
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 1: Columbus summoned the Pinzone brothers, the captains of the other

1335
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:55,800
Speaker 1: two ships, donned his armor and went ashore in the launch,

1336
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:58,840
Speaker 1: carrying the royal banner and two flags emblazoned with a

1337
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:02,639
Speaker 1: green cross and the initials of Ferdinand and Isabella. Now

1338
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:06,639
Speaker 1: the Spanish sailors, they're relieved, first of all the fact

1339
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 1: that these natives, you know, they're naked, they have paint

1340
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 1: that's not familiar. They look peculiar, but they also look

1341
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 1: like normal humans, which is a huge relief because at

1342
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 1: the time, all of these guys believe what Pliny the

1343
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:23,679
Speaker 1: Elder wrote about geography, which is that these other islands

1344
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 1: are like there's these things called anthropophagi, which are like

1345
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 1: headless monsters with like torso men that like are cannibals

1346
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:36,880
Speaker 1: and stuff. So it's normal people great like that. That

1347
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 1: is kind of like the first overwhelming reaction is like, oh,

1348
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:44,360
Speaker 1: thank god, they're not They're not monsters. Oh cool, we

1349
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:49,839
Speaker 1: were really worried about that, all right. Well, yeah, Columbus

1350
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 1: never believed there were monsters. On his part. Um, he

1351
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 1: is moved to comment on how attractive they are, which

1352
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:58,799
Speaker 1: everyone does in this period. Um he names the island

1353
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:03,600
Speaker 1: which had been inhabited basically forever San Salvador quote. He

1354
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 1: called for the Escravano Scribe, and as protocol dictated, he

1355
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 1: had him record as witness that he took possession of

1356
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:12,639
Speaker 1: it in the name of the Catholic Sovereigns, with appropriate ceremony.

1357
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:16,160
Speaker 1: In words, taking possession of lands hitherto unknown or undiscovered

1358
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 1: was primarily a signal to other European nations to keep off,

1359
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:21,640
Speaker 1: a sign that whoever took possession first had the pre

1360
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 1: eminent right to discover, explore, and established trading posts. It

1361
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 1: did not automatically imply conquest or ownership now that's what

1362
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:31,800
Speaker 1: Carol writes, and it's really interesting to me that she's

1363
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:33,880
Speaker 1: trying to push this claim that like, well, he wasn't

1364
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:36,000
Speaker 1: really he was just this is just a warning to

1365
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:38,760
Speaker 1: other Europeans. He wasn't really saying we own this now.

1366
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 1: Obviously that's not what this means necessarily, which is very

1367
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,640
Speaker 1: silly because that's exactly what it means and exactly what

1368
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:47,640
Speaker 1: he's done. And she later writes about the process of

1369
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 1: him conquering and like taking and governing these islands for Spain.

1370
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 1: It's extremely funny that she even now has to like

1371
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 1: pretend that that he's not just seeing islands inhabited by

1372
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 1: people and immediately being like, we own a ship. Now

1373
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:04,920
Speaker 1: I'm governor, which is exactly what he actually is doing. Um.

1374
01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:09,040
Speaker 1: So he writes excitedly about the resources on the islands.

1375
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 1: He keeps finding, like we'll talk more about this in

1376
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 1: episode two, but he keeps seeing people like little gold

1377
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: pieces of jewelry, and he spends a lot of the

1378
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 1: next couple of weeks eagerly searching to go for gold,

1379
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:21,680
Speaker 1: trying to find minds that Splain can exploit, because that's

1380
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 1: really everything to him, right, he has promised the sovereigns.

1381
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:26,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna find gold and we're gonna use that to

1382
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 1: fund an army that we can use to bring about

1383
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: the apocalypse. Everything very ripe here, Yes, the medal, the

1384
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:36,439
Speaker 1: medal is ripe. Um. More to the point, though, he

1385
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 1: writes very enthusiastically and positively about the local culture, and

1386
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 1: in fact, it's probably worth noting that there's elements of

1387
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:47,599
Speaker 1: what he writes that are not terrible, um, diminishing their

1388
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:51,719
Speaker 1: culture or reductive. No, he's he's super there are elements

1389
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 1: of that he's but he's also there's like a lot

1390
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:55,760
Speaker 1: of like one of the things that's noted is that

1391
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 1: he's one of the few guys in these voyages who's

1392
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:01,720
Speaker 1: like all about trying out the native foods and stuff. Um.

1393
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 1: And he writes earlier there's there's things that he does

1394
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 1: minimize and stuff. It's worth noting that, like Carol points

1395
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 1: out a lot about how enthusiative, enthusiastic and positive he

1396
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 1: is about them, um. But also she kind of again

1397
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:17,760
Speaker 1: among the other things she ignores is that he's enthusiastic

1398
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:20,080
Speaker 1: about them because of what good subjects they're going to

1399
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:22,800
Speaker 1: make for the Spanish crown, right that's the thing he's

1400
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 1: most excited about. Um Delaney gives Columbus great credit for

1401
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 1: the fact that his immediate thing is like, oh, these

1402
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 1: people are if you want to talk about diminishing. He decides,

1403
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 1: based on a couple of days of communicating with them

1404
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:37,719
Speaker 1: through hand signals, that they don't have a real religion.

1405
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:40,360
Speaker 1: Now what he means by that, And Carol's like, well,

1406
01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:42,919
Speaker 1: all he means by that is that they're not Muslim

1407
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:46,759
Speaker 1: or or you know, some other kind of clear pagan religion.

1408
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 1: They don't have strict beliefs, so he thinks that they'll

1409
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:52,960
Speaker 1: take to Christianity. He's literally saying, based on hand gestures,

1410
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:55,080
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure they don't believe in anything, so we

1411
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: can make up christian real easy, right. The other thing

1412
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 1: that Carol, but this is where we're really getting into

1413
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 1: the ship about her, that's fucked up. She's like, look,

1414
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 1: the fact that he thinks the natives will be easy

1415
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:08,800
Speaker 1: to convert to Christianity, Well, it's not just that it's

1416
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,720
Speaker 1: a compliment. It means that he doesn't want to enslave them,

1417
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 1: because you can't enslave Christians. You can enslave someone and

1418
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 1: then they can convert to being Christian and that doesn't

1419
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 1: free them. But if you convert them into Christianity, they

1420
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 1: cannot be enslaved. Right. So she's like, look, Christopher Columbus

1421
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:26,760
Speaker 1: clearly didn't want anything bad for these people because he

1422
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 1: wanted to convert them. Um. This is again very fucked

1423
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 1: up of her, very manipulative, and and and sketchy. Um,

1424
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 1: it's also fucking nonsense. Lawrence bear Green describes things rather differently. Quote,

1425
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:44,519
Speaker 1: the Spanish should come all this way across the ocean

1426
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 1: sea expecting to confront the superior civilization. How disconcerting to

1427
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:51,719
Speaker 1: be confronted with naked people who were very poor in everything.

1428
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 1: Columbus and his men would have to be careful not

1429
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:56,560
Speaker 1: to hurt them, rather than the other way around. I

1430
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:58,759
Speaker 1: saw some who had marks of wounds on their bodies

1431
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:00,800
Speaker 1: and made signs for them to ask what it was,

1432
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:02,960
Speaker 1: and they showed me that people of other islands which

1433
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:04,720
Speaker 1: are near came there and was to capture them, and

1434
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 1: they defended themselves. And I believe that people do come

1435
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:10,520
Speaker 1: here from the mainland to take them as slaves. Slaves

1436
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:17,599
Speaker 1: the idea enslaves. Yeah, The idea instantly struck Columbus as plausible,

1437
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 1: even desirable. They ought to be good servants, he continued,

1438
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:23,559
Speaker 1: and of good skill. For I see they repeat quickly

1439
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:27,080
Speaker 1: everything that is said to them. So Delaney is like,

1440
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:29,160
Speaker 1: of course he doesn't want to enslave him. He wants

1441
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:32,599
Speaker 1: to convert them. And fucking Lawrence bear Green just points

1442
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:34,560
Speaker 1: out the first thing he writes about these people is

1443
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:38,280
Speaker 1: they're going to be great slaves, Like that's like servants,

1444
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 1: right servants. But what happens is they all get enslaved.

1445
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:43,920
Speaker 1: So I think it's clear what he means. So he

1446
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:47,280
Speaker 1: has he has discovered quote unquote new people and thought

1447
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:51,080
Speaker 1: number one is like, oh man, number one, these people

1448
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:53,120
Speaker 1: are not as good at fighting as at us. And

1449
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 1: number two, it's going to be really easy as ship

1450
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 1: to enslave them, hot dog um. And we're going to

1451
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:03,080
Speaker 1: talk about what comes next and everything Christopher Columbus does,

1452
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 1: and we will we will try to give some insight

1453
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:08,519
Speaker 1: into these people that he has found. Two, because they

1454
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 1: go extinct very quickly, and so there's not as much

1455
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:14,320
Speaker 1: known about them as is ideal, but there there is

1456
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:16,960
Speaker 1: some There are some people trying to do decent anthropology

1457
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:19,600
Speaker 1: in this period, including delas Casas, to try to like

1458
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:24,120
Speaker 1: save something of like these folks. Um, so we'll talk.

1459
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:26,519
Speaker 1: We will be talking about that, and we will be

1460
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 1: talking about everything else that Christopher Columbus is about to do,

1461
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 1: which is much worse. It gets a lot worse after

1462
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:36,280
Speaker 1: episode one. I know, he's been a very likable guy

1463
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:40,679
Speaker 1: up to this point. Yeah, as another famous Columbo once said,

1464
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 1: one more thing and then genocide and then genocide. So, Michael,

1465
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 1: how are you feeling at the end of part one?

1466
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 1: Has this changed your mind on Christopher Columbus. I'll tell

1467
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 1: you I thought Amerigo Vespucci was a piece of ship

1468
01:17:56,280 --> 01:18:00,680
Speaker 1: this guy. Yeah, No, I'm uneasy Robert leaning puns for

1469
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 1: my own comfort. Yeah, I mean Amerigos Gucci, Christopher Columbus. Look,

1470
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:10,480
Speaker 1: do we need to figure out what's going on with Italians?

1471
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 1: You know, maybe shut down immigration from that, from that

1472
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 1: perfidious our isthmus, I don't understand geographic turns like Columbus.

1473
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,280
Speaker 1: I'd broaden it to all humanity. I mean, we're all

1474
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 1: just metal ripening in the wind. We're all just metal

1475
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:30,320
Speaker 1: ripening in the wind. That's right, That's right. Until to

1476
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 1: next time, find the director Chris Columbus and just huck

1477
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:39,360
Speaker 1: a beer. Bottle at him, like really really brain him

1478
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 1: hard right in the side of the head him. At

1479
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 1: least pull your arm back in anticipation of a huck,

1480
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:48,360
Speaker 1: and then tune in for the next episode. Yeah, yeah,

1481
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 1: what is he? What is he directed? What are his movies? Oh?

1482
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,600
Speaker 1: He did the Harry Potter's movie. Well, there you go,

1483
01:18:55,760 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 1: that's reason enough. Yeah. Uh, screw that turf. I guess

1484
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:04,080
Speaker 1: by association, even though there's I've heard nothing but fine

1485
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:10,840
Speaker 1: things about Chris Columbus, literally never heard anything about it. Yeah,

1486
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:14,760
Speaker 1: he has the name of the other guy. Um, I

1487
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:18,639
Speaker 1: don't know. He looks like a guy who would enslave

1488
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:21,599
Speaker 1: an entire people. You know what I say, screw people

1489
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:24,800
Speaker 1: who have the same name as someone else, right, Robert Evans, Hey,

1490
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:28,160
Speaker 1: all my namesake ever did was a hell of a

1491
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:32,160
Speaker 1: lot of cocaine. Yeah he's a great Yeah, there's nothing

1492
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:35,800
Speaker 1: wrong with either. Robert Evans. Nope, not going to read

1493
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:40,720
Speaker 1: into that anymore. Um So, Michael, you got any plug

1494
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:44,280
Speaker 1: doubles to plug? Oh? Sure, I'll do a second plug.

1495
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Uh. Specifically, I'd be remiss if

1496
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:51,240
Speaker 1: I didn't mention one upsmanship. If you like hearing about

1497
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 1: video games as an art form and sort of the

1498
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:58,800
Speaker 1: whole medium and the ongoing dialectic of what games are real?

1499
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:02,400
Speaker 1: Good Me and my the Adam Ganzer discussed that at

1500
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:05,639
Speaker 1: length every week on One Upsmanship. That's the number one

1501
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 1: ups Manship. Check us out now, Michael m hmm, I

1502
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:15,799
Speaker 1: just learned something funked up about Christopher Columbus, the director

1503
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:27,519
Speaker 1: oh his production company Pictures Oh. Does this mean that

1504
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:31,120
Speaker 1: the Harry Potter movies were created as part of an

1505
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:34,679
Speaker 1: occult right to in the world because our Christopher Columbus

1506
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:38,880
Speaker 1: also views himself as an agent of the apocalypse. Harry

1507
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:42,680
Speaker 1: has to re establish the Promised Land, as like the

1508
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:46,600
Speaker 1: magical Kingdom needs to take over the world. Perhaps this

1509
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:52,160
Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus is gathering gold to himself by making movies

1510
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:55,960
Speaker 1: in order to retake Jerusalem. And you said he was hot,

1511
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:57,920
Speaker 1: and but we don't. We're not sure exactly what he

1512
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:00,320
Speaker 1: looks like. I'm going to assume he has just slits

1513
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:02,719
Speaker 1: for a nose and it is basically a Baltimore test.

1514
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:06,080
Speaker 1: I'm saying, is it took Robert I don't know twenty

1515
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:11,760
Speaker 1: seconds to turn a man into a bastards anyway, Hunt

1516
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 1: him down, folks, bring him to justice. Oh he directed

1517
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 1: the Home Alone films. Yeah, and Mrs down Fire. No

1518
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:22,759
Speaker 1: call off your dogs, no, no, no hunting, no, no hunting.

1519
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:26,439
Speaker 1: This is the greatest mortal quandary and behind the Bastard's history.

1520
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 1: We'll have to crack that next time. Behind the Bastards

1521
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:39,040
Speaker 1: is a production of cool Zone Media. For more from

1522
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:42,439
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

1523
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

1524
01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:47,680
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.