Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex.
Speaker 2: Bar Bizarre, Blizar and Blazarre. Everybody nailed it joined as
Speaker 2: always buy our bar.
Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars No, I know not.
Speaker 1: The people on the internet think he doesn't understand it.
Speaker 2: And those people fell into like a little coach speaking
Speaker 2: it's not that.
Speaker 1: Big right, Well, those people claim to know football, but
Speaker 1: their nose is too deep in Microsoft exel. My point being,
Speaker 1: oh my god, there.
Speaker 2: When you sit there and you say these things, it's
Speaker 2: just the self aware you know exactly what I'm I
Speaker 2: know you what you're talking about. But you're saying it
Speaker 2: like somebody that is that like not use Microsoft cell
Speaker 2: what like you're saying it like you're Dan Campbell, Like
Speaker 2: you have to realize there doesn't use.
Speaker 1: Microsoft e cell. I think I can talk about not
Speaker 1: using microsoftic cell. I think that's.
Speaker 2: Perfectly Fairka It's it's so true, like you say these
Speaker 2: things like you had like a ten year NFL career
Speaker 2: and we we gotta we gotta be tough and we
Speaker 2: gotta it's not a toughness, we gotta we gotta play
Speaker 2: hard nosed football. Well, you're gonna get it. They're gonna
Speaker 2: get all back, you're gonna get your downhill run scheme.
Speaker 2: We're gonna be coming off the ball. We're gonna be
Speaker 2: hitting people again on both sides of the ball. Really,
Speaker 2: because both these guys are are are into that sort
Speaker 2: of thing. You know, you're gonna get this game's.
Speaker 1: Being played at a high level and coach at a
Speaker 1: high level for a number of years without having to
Speaker 1: rely on all these spreadsheets and formulas and things like that.
Speaker 1: And that's just my point is that you don't need
Speaker 1: that to be successful. I texted you this yesterday. You
Speaker 1: never responded. Did you see they had the Microsoft Excel
Speaker 1: National Championship.
Speaker 2: I know you're trolling.
Speaker 1: I would think that would be where you want them
Speaker 1: to go to find coaches.
Speaker 2: No, not coaches. Analysts maybe you know in the front office, sure,
Speaker 2: but not coaches.
Speaker 1: That's that that that's your that's your football ops department
Speaker 1: right there. Just go get the twelve people that we're
Speaker 1: in the EXEL National Championship.
Speaker 2: Listen. I what I liked so much about Vrabel's answer
Speaker 2: about all this stuff, and this is not where we
Speaker 2: wanted to start with all this news But what I
Speaker 2: like so much about his answers to all this stuff
Speaker 2: is that he's open minded about the world of analytics. No,
Speaker 2: it's it's but he's not good. But he's not married
Speaker 2: to it, and he's not totally against either, right. He
Speaker 2: he understands that it's applicable and that it has a place.
Speaker 1: But has a place a place. It shouldn't be the
Speaker 1: driving force, which I'm all for.
Speaker 2: I've I've always said that, But it's as well, like
Speaker 2: I I think people could I come across as somebody
Speaker 2: that wants to be married to the numbers and all
Speaker 2: he wants to draft based off the spreadsheet. That's not
Speaker 2: that's not my thing. That's not what I'm saying. All
Speaker 2: I am saying is is like in any walk of life,
Speaker 2: like more information is good, Like I it's it's blows
Speaker 2: my mind when people don't want to close their mind
Speaker 2: off to being more informed. Like if you were a
Speaker 2: hedge fund manager on Wall Street, would you not want
Speaker 2: to make sure that you're uh, you know, completely informed
Speaker 2: about an investment? Right? Like you wouldn't go into an
Speaker 2: investment at that level with just like fifty percent of
Speaker 2: the information. You would go in with one hundred percent,
Speaker 2: and that's all I'm asking out of the page.
Speaker 1: Sure, but I think when you're talking about sports specifically,
Speaker 1: there's a human element there, maybe isn't an investing and
Speaker 1: I think the numbers try to wash that out, and
Speaker 1: I think it's very important not to forget and to
Speaker 1: even embrace the human element of it.
Speaker 2: I agree, I agree, I don't. I don't want people
Speaker 2: to get that twisted. I do agree with you to
Speaker 2: an extent.
Speaker 1: I think next year, so we usually watched Super Bowl together, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think next year we should watch the Microsoft. No,
Speaker 1: we should we have a good time.
Speaker 2: No, we want well everyone, you'll be insufferable the whole time.
Speaker 1: People. No, because these are actual pros aut of using
Speaker 1: it for what it's Maybe I'll learn something, Maybe I'll
Speaker 1: learn something, maybe you. I'm fine with them because they're
Speaker 1: doing what they do. They're not trying to run a
Speaker 1: football team. They're I think the guy who won it
Speaker 1: was like a financial analyst.
Speaker 2: So well, speaking of running a football team, the Patriots
Speaker 2: have coordinators. We are starting to form a coaching staff
Speaker 2: here in the building, and I do believe that that
Speaker 2: announcement is coming shortly, formally announcing Josh McDaniels as the
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator, Torell Williams as the defensive coordinator, and the
Speaker 2: return of Jeremy Springer. And now we're also starting to
Speaker 2: hear some rumblings and reports out there, nothing confirmed, but
Speaker 2: reports of potential staffers below those guys.
Speaker 1: Coaches.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, positional coaches. So we're going to open
Speaker 2: the show with all of that, of course, and before
Speaker 2: we do, Hey, Patriots fans, we want to see Toyota's
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Speaker 1: Yes, Iyota, Now you're adding, that's not even close where
Speaker 1: I come from. I know you said Iota.
Speaker 2: I say it how I say it. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to agize anymore. I'm not going to apologize anymore, Yoda,
Speaker 2: unless Toyota, the great people at Toyota come and say, hey,
Speaker 2: Evan needs to say this correctly.
Speaker 1: I do think they want to say it correctly.
Speaker 2: Then I will change my mind. But until then, I
Speaker 2: am going to.
Speaker 1: I've never heard Tyota, I've never heard.
Speaker 2: Well, that's how I say it. I guess I don't know.
Speaker 1: No, I've never heard you say that. That's not how
Speaker 1: you say it. I think you're two in your head about.
Speaker 2: You're right, I totally am. All right, let's get down
Speaker 2: to business though, enough joking around, enough banter off the
Speaker 2: top of the show. So Josh McDaniel's back as the
Speaker 2: Patriots offensive coordinator. I do want to start there. There's
Speaker 2: a different couple different layers to this. The biggest one
Speaker 2: note to me and really across the entire staff with
Speaker 2: Terrell Williams as well, whose first time play caller but
Speaker 2: has been coaching NFL football for like twenty five years.
Speaker 2: Very experienced, Yeah, very experienced. Is this tends to have
Speaker 2: with coaching changes that you flip flop, right, You go
Speaker 2: from a demanding, hard nos authoritative, authoritarian coach to a
Speaker 2: player's coach, and then when that doesn't work, you go
Speaker 2: back to the authoritarian. And you know when you go
Speaker 2: with an inexperienced staff last year with a bunch of
Speaker 2: first time guys doing first time things. Now this year,
Speaker 2: you're going with Mike Frable on his second stint as
Speaker 2: a head coach, Josh McDaniel's on his third stint as
Speaker 2: the Patriots offensive coordinator. It is completely in totally polar
Speaker 2: opposite approaches from what they did last year. We are
Speaker 2: no longer going to be worried about this guy's never
Speaker 2: had this title before, that guy's never called plays before.
Speaker 1: The term growing pains will be used a lot less frequently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's a good thing. Now, that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that it always works, right, like these flip
Speaker 2: flops don't always work. But I do think it's a
Speaker 2: good thing. And the biggest thing with McDaniels in particular
Speaker 2: is that this is a truly what's the word, a
Speaker 2: truly sharp, experienced, veteran savvy coordinator. You can say what
Speaker 2: you want about him as a head coach, but there's
Speaker 2: not gonna hire. There's not going to be any questions
Speaker 2: about his ability to run a quarterback, his ability to run.
Speaker 2: And I don't mean physically run, I mean like coach
Speaker 2: a quarterback, install a system, run an offense, cater the offense,
Speaker 2: game plan, play call in game. There's not going to
Speaker 2: be any unknowns. We know exactly what the Patriots are
Speaker 2: getting themselves into. And for Drake May, that stability and
Speaker 2: that experience I think is going to be really big
Speaker 2: at both head coach and offensive coordinator for a young quarterback.
Speaker 2: So I'm excited about that. I want to get into
Speaker 2: the scheme stuff and what I think will happen here
Speaker 2: moving forward with Josh McDaniels. But what is just your
Speaker 2: big picture thought on McDaniel's coming back.
Speaker 1: I think it's a good higher. I think it's a
Speaker 1: good higher. You know, there is definitely the draw and
Speaker 1: I had talked about it when we did that show
Speaker 1: a couple weeks ago about like trying to find their
Speaker 1: own Ben Johnson, and that came with risk and reward.
Speaker 1: But if you just want somebody who can get in
Speaker 1: and get this thing going as quick as possible, that's
Speaker 1: Josh McDaniels. And it's not even closed. And you know,
Speaker 1: for is he perfect?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 1: You know the play sequencing sometimes gets under your skin,
Speaker 1: the screen stuff, but for everything he brings from an
Speaker 1: experience standpoint, from an operational standpoint, from his experience with quarterbacks,
Speaker 1: his ability to be flexible, his ability to be multiple
Speaker 1: We talked about this last week, Evan. When people say
Speaker 1: I don't like Josh McDaniel's offense, Well, what is Josh
Speaker 1: McDaniel's offense, Because like everything's at his disposal, there really
Speaker 1: isn't anything that he doesn't do. There's certainly things he's
Speaker 1: done more than others, but we've seen him do a
Speaker 1: very good job tailoring his offense to his quarterback. I
Speaker 1: had seen it a lot, but when we've seen it,
Speaker 1: we've talked about how that Cam Newton offense with Demir
Speaker 1: Bird and Ryan Izzo and a washed Cam Newton was
Speaker 1: still probably better than it should have been. Rookie mac
Speaker 1: Jones had the sixth highest ranked offense in the league.
Speaker 1: I would say he tailored that to mac Jones arguably
Speaker 1: almost to a fault, because you know that year, I
Speaker 1: think is kind of why he when that stuff about
Speaker 1: the screens really became ah wi, there's so many screens,
Speaker 1: and then you saw what happened the next year when
Speaker 1: they had mac Jones trying to throw down the field
Speaker 1: more so, and that to me is the big thing,
Speaker 1: like how is he gonna tailor it around Drake May.
Speaker 1: There's probably a couple different directions he can go We've
Speaker 1: talked about some of the bigger points. Right the quarterback
Speaker 1: runs the RPO game, I'll be really interested to see,
Speaker 1: and generally he's done a good job of Okay, this
Speaker 1: is what my quarterback can do. This is what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna ask him to do. I don't think he's gonna
Speaker 1: try to cram Drake May into the Tom Brady system
Speaker 1: or anything like that. The one spot where I wonder
Speaker 1: if there's maybe a sticking point or where he goes
Speaker 1: more towards what he wants to do. We know Josh
Speaker 1: McDaniels likes to operate under center so he can run
Speaker 1: some of that play action stuff. We know Drake May
Speaker 1: is a shotgun quarterback. What's the distribution like there? Do
Speaker 1: we finally get to see that piss stuff that we
Speaker 1: didn't see last year that we wanted to see? That's
Speaker 1: my big question. But I mean that's more operational than
Speaker 1: just like is this gonna succeed or not. I'm more
Speaker 1: curious what it's gonna look like. Will they be the
Speaker 1: number one offense in the league. Probably not, And some
Speaker 1: of that is just on talent. A lot of that
Speaker 1: is just on talent. But I would expect to see
Speaker 1: a much more versatile offense, a much more consistent offense
Speaker 1: than we saw last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So just to start from a schematics standpoint, it's
Speaker 2: almost like, let's use the cheesecake Factory because they got
Speaker 2: that big love the chews, they got that big, big menu,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like there's like a hundred
Speaker 2: things on that menu. So Josh McDaniels has always gone
Speaker 2: to the cheesecake Factory and he's always ordered something similar
Speaker 2: because of the types of quarterbacks he's had, Tom Brady,
Speaker 2: Mac Jones, Derek Carr, these are all stationary pocket passers.
Speaker 2: Although he's always ordered the cheeseburger, that doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: there is an Aposta dish on the menu. So he
Speaker 2: just hasn't necessarily ordered the pasta dish. As much I
Speaker 2: have seen Josh McDaniels enough flex that he has different
Speaker 2: dishes on the menu. It's just when you're a play caller,
Speaker 2: you call the plays based off of what your personnel does, well,
Speaker 2: you call the plays based off the defense, So you
Speaker 2: just might not necessarily order that stuff off the menu.
Speaker 2: With Drake May, everything is on the menu. He is
Speaker 2: one of those quarterbacks that it's great to have the
Speaker 2: greatest quarterback of all time. No one's like saying that
Speaker 2: it was bad for McDaniels to have Tom Brady. That
Speaker 2: would be silly. But tom Brady was not running quarterback runs,
Speaker 2: he was not moving the pocket. You were not bootlegging
Speaker 2: with Tom Brady. You were not running RPO and zone
Speaker 2: Reid and all that kind of stuff with Tom Brady.
Speaker 2: Now all of those things are available to a play
Speaker 2: caller like Josh McDaniels, who has the birth of the
Speaker 2: playbook to be able to do those things and has
Speaker 2: shown that in pockets that he can do those things.
Speaker 2: And I'm really interested from that standpoint point how his
Speaker 2: offense now evolves, because he is one of those guys
Speaker 2: that I think is really, really smart, and he's going
Speaker 2: to be excited, I would think to be able to
Speaker 2: finally almost combine elements of like the Cam Newton offense
Speaker 2: with his traditional drop back passing game to get to
Speaker 2: an offense that melds really the twenty and twenty one
Speaker 2: offenses together. I think that's a good starting point. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying that mac Jones. Obviously, Drake may has much
Speaker 2: more arm talent and physical ability than mac Jones, so
Speaker 2: hopefully quickly they evolved past just the mac Jones twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one offense, but as a starting basic install type
Speaker 2: of point, you have the run game with camp Newton,
Speaker 2: which was eighth in the league in DVOA. They were
Speaker 2: third in the league in rushing yards per game that
Speaker 2: season in twenty twenty and the pass game of a
Speaker 2: mac jones offense. You meld those things together when we
Speaker 2: get here in here April May June, and you're really
Speaker 2: doing basic install type stuff. My guess is is that
Speaker 2: is where McDaniels will start and some of those things
Speaker 2: that we can get into in terms of the specifics,
Speaker 2: but really at his core the tenants of his offense,
Speaker 2: he is gonna run a gap run scheme. He's gonna
Speaker 2: run downhill. You're gonna get the full back back. I
Speaker 2: would assume you're gonna be running he told you that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're gonna build that story. Maybe you're gonna be running lead,
Speaker 2: You're gonna be running power, You're gonna be running counter,
Speaker 2: you're gonna be running wham. You're gonna be running crack
Speaker 2: toss like this is gonna be We're coming at you.
Speaker 2: We're coming at you downhill and One of the things
Speaker 2: that I really love about the McDaniels offense is that
Speaker 2: he understands who he's putting in binds and who he's
Speaker 2: putting in conflict with those run actions. So he knows
Speaker 2: that when he leads that full back through the hole,
Speaker 2: that the linebacker has to come down, right, He has
Speaker 2: to come down and press the back the you know,
Speaker 2: the full back. So what's he gonna do with play action.
Speaker 2: He's gonna lead that full back through the hole. He's
Speaker 2: gonna run across or a seam right by the linebacker,
Speaker 2: and the ball is gonna go right by his ear,
Speaker 2: and you're going to be off and running. It's different
Speaker 2: from the Shanahan McVeigh style, where you're really trying to
Speaker 2: get matchups down the field. You're trying to get those
Speaker 2: single high safeties, get the one on ones on the outside,
Speaker 2: and bombs away down the field. This is a second
Speaker 2: level intermediate passing game. I do believe though, that that's
Speaker 2: gonna fit Drake May, because Drake May, unlike mac Jones,
Speaker 2: has the ability to drive the ball through those windows
Speaker 2: right in the middle of the field. So now the
Speaker 2: deep middle is back, the seams are back. Like these
Speaker 2: are things that I think they had trouble accessing because
Speaker 2: of Mac Jones's arm talent that they didn't necessarily have
Speaker 2: in his rookie season. Now they have that back on
Speaker 2: the playbook or black on the menu, just to continue
Speaker 2: with that analogy. So I'm excited about that. You mentioned
Speaker 2: the Cam offense. There's obvious differences athletically between Drake May
Speaker 2: and Cam Newton. Cam Newton was six foot five, two
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty pounds. He was a battering rate. Yeah
Speaker 2: to run Mac Jones one hundred and thirty seven times, yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're not gonna run Drake May one hundred and thirty
Speaker 2: seven times like you did with Cam Newton in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: You're gonna get him killed. You're just not gonna do that.
Speaker 2: But there's ways to tweak it. You know, Cam was
Speaker 2: running inside, he was running in between the tackles. The
Speaker 2: back was usually the guy they inverted their RPO, so
Speaker 2: the quarterback was going inside, the back was going off
Speaker 2: the tackle. Now, if you flip that, where all Drake
Speaker 2: May is doing is kind of holding that unblocked defender
Speaker 2: to open up numbers to the to the run inside.
Speaker 2: And every once in a while when that and crashes,
Speaker 2: he can just keep it out the backside and just
Speaker 2: be in space. And now he's not in crowds, he's
Speaker 2: not gonna get his bell rung hopefully as much and
Speaker 2: get hit as often as he would if he was
Speaker 2: running downhill at the line of scrimmage like Cam was.
Speaker 2: So there's ways to kind of tweak those things. But
Speaker 2: when you go back and watch that twenty twenty offense,
Speaker 2: like I hear a lot about Josh McDaniel's offense, it's outdated.
Speaker 2: He doesn't know how to do those sort of things.
Speaker 2: It's all there in twenty twenty. All the RPO, all
Speaker 2: the zone read, all the quarterback design run on the
Speaker 2: goal line, like, all that stuff is all there.
Speaker 1: The roster just wasn't good, Like you don't have the
Speaker 1: talents execute at a high level. I'll say this too,
Speaker 1: if you want to do some of that stuff, especially
Speaker 1: the goal line stuff. Yeah, full house package they ran
Speaker 1: with Cam Newton, right, Joe Milton. Okay, Joe Milton.
Speaker 2: Let's just know why why not?
Speaker 1: Don't don't.
Speaker 2: Let's just a bit He's not get to Joe Milton
Speaker 2: seventeen minutes into the show, Like why not? Like because
Speaker 2: that's not the point. Like, the point is to get
Speaker 2: this offense to a point where we don't have to
Speaker 2: do gimmicky stuff.
Speaker 1: No, but Josh McDaniels does gimmicky stuff for Oh, look
Speaker 1: at Ben Johnson with the trick plays Josh McDaniels. That's
Speaker 1: in his bag too. And whether it's all right we're
Speaker 1: gonna go full house on the goal line with Joe
Speaker 1: Milton because he is a tank and he can put
Speaker 1: his shoulder down and run through a defender on the
Speaker 1: goal line, whether it's getting creative with a guy like
Speaker 1: Pop Douglas, who is just gonna fascinate me in this offense.
Speaker 1: You know, I've always said to the one real issue
Speaker 1: I've had with Josh McDaniels, he's never really been able
Speaker 1: to figure out scheme touch guys Nikhil Harry john who
Speaker 1: Smith except for Cordero Patterson was the one guy figured
Speaker 1: out there happens to be a very Corderol Patterson like
Speaker 1: player in this draft. And save me On Williams, is
Speaker 1: that somebody you start talking about. Let let's not rule
Speaker 1: out the gimmicky stuff because McDaniels is good.
Speaker 2: I'm not ruling out the gimmicky stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm just I want to see Marcus Jones. They touchdown
Speaker 1: pass to Joe Milton.
Speaker 2: But they need to have some base offense.
Speaker 1: I know they do.
Speaker 2: I know Ben Johnson I think gets misunderstood a little
Speaker 2: bit because people make a big deal out of the
Speaker 2: trick plays that the Lions have ran over the last
Speaker 2: couple of years. That's not what makes Ben Johnson great.
Speaker 1: The last.
Speaker 2: What made Ben Johnson great was what is his system? Right?
Speaker 2: And I think that's the difference between a guy like
Speaker 2: McDaniels and some of these other guys that they floated
Speaker 2: that and look, I am right there with everybody on
Speaker 2: the tight pants guys like you know, I love those
Speaker 2: types of guys. But the issue with hiring like the Yudanisky,
Speaker 2: the kid from Minnesota is twenty eight years old. The
Speaker 2: issue with that is obviously an experience, but it's, you know,
Speaker 2: to unpack that he's never run a quarterback before, he's
Speaker 2: never coached a quarterback before, he's never developed a young
Speaker 2: quarterback before, he's never called plays in an NFL game
Speaker 2: like those types of guys. With a second year quarterback
Speaker 2: and an offense that really has a long way to go, is.
Speaker 2: It was a bit of a concern. That's why I
Speaker 2: came on to the show last week and said I'd
Speaker 2: hire McDaniels. Yeah, because this is just where you're at,
Speaker 2: where you're at right now, it's a lot like Vrabel
Speaker 2: like where you're at right now is you need stability,
Speaker 2: you need experience, and from that, you know, until we
Speaker 2: get into the trick plays and the Joe Milton package
Speaker 2: and all that stuff, you need to install a base
Speaker 2: offense and a system that is sound and that works
Speaker 2: and that can be successful until you and then you
Speaker 2: can start adding all this other I.
Speaker 1: Liked them to get to the point where they're adding
Speaker 1: some of that stuff this season, right I don't you
Speaker 1: don't need to wait two to three years to do that.
Speaker 1: You get the base Drake touchdown, I know, obviously, But
Speaker 1: McDaniels is good with that stuff. McDaniels is good with
Speaker 1: because it's a it's a core Belichick philosophy. Do we
Speaker 1: have players that are good at specific things, and we
Speaker 1: can take advantage of those specific skills. If you're down
Speaker 1: on the goal line and you have a six foot five,
Speaker 1: two hundred and forty pound quarterback who's mobile, McDaniels is
Speaker 1: the kind of guy and it's not gonna be every play, yeah,
Speaker 1: but McDaniels is the kind of guy that's gonna find
Speaker 1: a way to take advantage of that. You have a
Speaker 1: guy in Pop Douglas who's incredibly good in small spaces,
Speaker 1: He's quick, he's impossible to tackle in a phone booth,
Speaker 1: like McDaniels can take advantage of a guy like some
Speaker 1: of these guys. That maybe the big thing with Pop Douglas, right,
Speaker 1: And I don't mean to compare Pop Douglas to Joe Mill,
Speaker 1: it's a little different, But when it comes to Pop Douglas,
Speaker 1: the question has been you know, yes, he has he's
Speaker 1: great with the ball in his hands, he has this
Speaker 1: great skill set, but can he be of allvolume guy.
Speaker 1: I think McDaniels is the kind of coach from his
Speaker 1: experience that will have ways to make Pop Douglas an
Speaker 1: impact player without him necessarily having to be a volume guy.
Speaker 1: And I think that's part of the perk with Josh
Speaker 1: McDaniels is as you build this roster up and eventually
Speaker 1: you want to get to the point where there's all
Speaker 1: these elite players all over the field. Right, But he
Speaker 1: generally the Mac Jones here, the Cam Newton here, he
Speaker 1: generally gets more out of the talent he has disposable
Speaker 1: for him. His offense is generally punch above their weight,
Speaker 1: and part of the way he does that, A big
Speaker 1: part of the way he does that is he finds
Speaker 1: players with specialized skills and he maximizes those skills and
Speaker 1: maybe in spurts, but he does it. So as you
Speaker 1: talk about installing the base offense, that's obviously the big
Speaker 1: picture here, but let's also let's not lose track of
Speaker 1: the fact that he is going to do part of
Speaker 1: the draws. He's going to do some other things that
Speaker 1: are creative that maybe they weren't doing the last few years.
Speaker 1: That is going to allow this offense hopefully, Right, how
Speaker 1: do they get to the to be the six scoring
Speaker 1: offense in the league under Jones? It wasn't by putting
Speaker 1: it all on Max Jones shoulders with some of the
Speaker 1: other stuff they were doing, right, same with Cam Newton here.
Speaker 1: So whether it is a package with Joe Milton, where
Speaker 1: it is getting creative with Pop Douglas, maybe it's doing
Speaker 1: something with the running backs, and I have a running
Speaker 1: backs take on Josh McDaniels too. I want to get
Speaker 1: to like, I'm excited to see that side of it
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Okay I'm not, but of course not. I understand where
Speaker 2: you're coming from. The other thing. I just wanted to
Speaker 2: mention with McDaniels, I just I really don't think he
Speaker 2: gets enough credit for how good of a run game
Speaker 2: schemer he is. So there his last three full seasons
Speaker 2: as an offensive play caller, not the twenty three season,
Speaker 2: taking that one out because he'll coach the Raiders for
Speaker 2: half the year, but they were eighth, ninth, and fifth
Speaker 2: in DVOA running the ball in twenty twenty two, for
Speaker 2: all its faults in Vegas, he had the rushing king
Speaker 2: in the NFL and Josh Jacobs the number one leading
Speaker 2: rusher in the league was Josh Jacobs that season with
Speaker 2: Josh McDaniels. So if you talk when you talk about
Speaker 2: taking things off Drake May's plate, making it easier for
Speaker 2: Drake May, what we're really talking about is can you
Speaker 2: be balanced r Can you have a run and a
Speaker 2: pass game that are successful, and then can you hit
Speaker 2: the easy buttons in the passing game, which is play
Speaker 2: action RPO moving pockets like those types of things are
Speaker 2: what make it easier for a quarterback so that he's
Speaker 2: not just drop back passing progression read get the ball
Speaker 2: out in two and a half seconds all the time.
Speaker 2: He's not trying to be Tom Brady, where he's just
Speaker 2: efficiently picking a part of defense all the time. The
Speaker 2: easy button is becoming extremely popular. It's why Ben Johnson
Speaker 2: just got a head coaching job. It's why Sean McVay
Speaker 2: and Kyle shanahan and Kevin O'Connell are the darlings of
Speaker 2: the NFL right now on the offensive side of the ball,
Speaker 2: because those guys are able to do that more times
Speaker 2: than not. With McDaniels, I think he has that element
Speaker 2: of his game to him. I think he's great at
Speaker 2: scheming together the run game and the play action passing game.
Speaker 2: We've talked about this in the past. You know, a
Speaker 2: couple of years, Patricia Alex van Pelt a lot of
Speaker 2: the time, like they would run run plays that weren't
Speaker 2: didn't make sense with the pass the play action pass
Speaker 2: right like they were running like a downhill duo and
Speaker 2: then they were repairing that with like a bootleg route
Speaker 2: concept and you're just like, how this is not who's
Speaker 2: this impacting Who's in conflict here? Like, where's the space
Speaker 2: that you're trying to create with this? It just didn't
Speaker 2: marry together. And I think one of the more refreshing
Speaker 2: parts about this hire is that they are going to
Speaker 2: run a system. They are not going to run a
Speaker 2: collection of plays. This is gonna be a system that's
Speaker 2: going to fit together, that's going to make sense. Now,
Speaker 2: after all the gushing and all the praise that I
Speaker 2: just taped on Josh McDaniels, I do have concerns.
Speaker 1: I'll just on the run game real quick. The other
Speaker 1: thing I'm excited about is I would think we're going
Speaker 1: to get back to the early down passing down back,
Speaker 1: and the last couple of years it's just been by
Speaker 1: drive or by stamina or whatever. Right, all right, Remandre,
Speaker 1: You're in for these five plays Antonio gibbson Europe, next
Speaker 1: and right, and it's not situational. There's benefits to that,
Speaker 1: there's certainly benefits to that. But I think one of
Speaker 1: the downsides is by the end of the year the
Speaker 1: last three years, or Andre was just they it was
Speaker 1: too much, right, right, they put too much on his plate.
Speaker 1: I would hope now we go back to that early down,
Speaker 1: passing down dynamic, which the downside is it's a little
Speaker 1: more predictable, but it allows you to specialize players and
Speaker 1: guys are doing with their best at more often than not.
Speaker 1: So Stevenson's well rounded back, we'll see is he the
Speaker 1: early down guy? Is he the passing down guy? Would
Speaker 1: think he'll be the early down guy. And then it's
Speaker 1: can they go Fine, we get to get back to
Speaker 1: this conversation now of you know the next James White,
Speaker 1: Shane Vereen, Danny Wood, Kevin Falk finding that kind of guy,
Speaker 1: and maybe that's Antonio Gibson. Maybe he's just a spellback
Speaker 1: for Stevenson in the early role and there's another passing
Speaker 1: down back something like that. But I am looking forward
Speaker 1: to them going back to that dynamic, that that philosophy
Speaker 1: splitting the running backs on offense.
Speaker 2: Well, from that standpoint, from my personnel standpoint, I job
Speaker 2: just got a whole lot easier because we know the
Speaker 2: types of players he's gonna be looking for. We know
Speaker 2: the types of all the way down the line offensive linemen.
Speaker 2: They're gonna be a power run team again. You can
Speaker 2: bet your bottom dollar that the outside zone stuff is
Speaker 2: out right, like, that's not coming back. It'll be just
Speaker 2: like I said about the cheesecake factory. It will be
Speaker 2: on the menu, but that's not gonna be a featured part.
Speaker 2: They're not gonna major in outside zone. They're not gonna
Speaker 2: be big on that. They're gonna get back to running
Speaker 2: the ball downhill. They're gonna get back to get you know,
Speaker 2: guards Mike on Wenu, Shaq Mason like bigger guards, full
Speaker 2: backs like. I think Remadre Stevenson benefits a lot from this.
Speaker 2: I think this was where he was at his best
Speaker 2: was in this type of offense and all this outside
Speaker 2: zone experimenting. I don't think it ever really fit him.
Speaker 2: I think this will fit Remandre. I think this will
Speaker 2: get him back to where he needs to be as well.
Speaker 2: The last thing in terms of the drop back pass
Speaker 2: game on the positive side, and I do want to
Speaker 2: talk about some of the of the small sea concerns.
Speaker 2: I don't have any like big major concerns, but I
Speaker 2: do have some small sea concerns. One of the other
Speaker 2: pet peeves that I had about the Van Pelt offense,
Speaker 2: and we discussed this at nauseum during the season, was
Speaker 2: how little scheme related conflict there was in their passing
Speaker 2: game to beat man to man coverage, like it was
Speaker 2: a lot of isolation routes, like we're gonna sprace the field,
Speaker 2: we're gonna be stagnant, We're gonna be isolation routes, and
Speaker 2: it just you beat the guy across from you. With McDaniels,
Speaker 2: you're gonna see stacks back in. We're gonna see pick
Speaker 2: plays back in, Like he's gonna find ways to get
Speaker 2: guys off the line of scrimmage and have them have
Speaker 2: advantageous ways to attack leverage and attack man coverage. You
Speaker 2: know how many times would you see Julian Edelman like
Speaker 2: in that short motion and then they get him into
Speaker 2: that two receiver stack and then just snap the ball
Speaker 2: right away and have the defense on its heels. Like
Speaker 2: those types of little intricacies to their drop back passing
Speaker 2: game that will be back in with McDaniels are intriguing
Speaker 2: because it just makes it easier on receivers to get open. Right,
Speaker 2: You're not just asking a Kishan Boody to go one
Speaker 2: on one on the outside and win five six times
Speaker 2: a game, which we know is probably not going to happen.
Speaker 2: So you hope that the receivers are better, and that
Speaker 2: just that lends itself in itself. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: I think that McDaniels is really really good at those
Speaker 2: sort of things. As far as the smallest sea concerns go,
Speaker 2: I think the main one for me, at least is
Speaker 2: how much information are we putting on Drake May, Like
Speaker 2: how much stress are we going to put on Drake
Speaker 2: May at the line of scrimmage, making the calls, making
Speaker 2: the line calls, making the checks, like all those types
Speaker 2: of things. Or are they going to go with a
Speaker 2: more watered down quarterback friendly version of the offense that
Speaker 2: we know and some of the things that you've heard
Speaker 2: about McDaniels during this year off that he's gone around
Speaker 2: to some college programs Ohio State, USC, a couple other
Speaker 2: places to make I think Albert Breer said it was
Speaker 2: more user friendly, try to make the offense more user friendly.
Speaker 2: I'm intrigued by that, and I hope that that's real,
Speaker 2: Like I hope that that's actually where they're gonna go,
Speaker 2: because it's a lot to put on a second year quarterback.
Speaker 2: And I not that Drake May isn't smart, but I
Speaker 2: don't necessarily know if that's what you're really trying to
Speaker 2: flex with Drake May is the mental muscle, like you're
Speaker 2: trying to flex the playmaking muscle, not necessarily winning above
Speaker 2: the you know, between the ears, because that's what he
Speaker 2: has to do.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's any chance that mc dames will
Speaker 1: only get flexible and maybe borrow from Van Pelt that
Speaker 1: David Andrews is more involved in the in the pre
Speaker 1: snap stuff.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think anything is possible. I think anything's on
Speaker 2: the table. My guess is, though, is that he will
Speaker 2: be in Drake May's ear until they shut off that
Speaker 2: had set fifteen seconds before the snap. And that's what
Speaker 2: he did with Mac Jones his rookie season, and so
Speaker 2: I think that he will hold Drake May's hand in
Speaker 2: that respect more than we're going to put this on
Speaker 2: the center. So we'll see how that works out. You know,
Speaker 2: their coaches have done that. Sean McVeigh famously did it
Speaker 2: with Jared Goff early on in Jared Goff's career. So
Speaker 2: I think it's possible. And as we build here, the
Speaker 2: hope is is that he can put more and more
Speaker 2: on Drake May's plate mentally. But it's it's a lot
Speaker 2: you know, you already as a quarterback have a ton
Speaker 2: of things to worry about when you get to the
Speaker 2: line of scrimmage. And now to add on top of that,
Speaker 2: you know, what's the front, where's the splitz threats coming from?
Speaker 2: How are we sliding protections, how are we setting mike
Speaker 2: points like all that kind of stuff. It's cumbersome, Like,
Speaker 2: there's a lot to think about from the quarterback perspective.
Speaker 2: I just wouldn't well, I would rather not go down
Speaker 2: that road again. But we'll see how Josh McDaniels does that.
Speaker 2: The other thing that is just a small sea concern
Speaker 2: for me is that notoriously not all not he's not
Speaker 2: allergic to motion, but he's not a big proponent of motion.
Speaker 2: They've been middle of the pack his offense is you know,
Speaker 2: the last three or four years that he's running offense
Speaker 2: have been middle of the pack in terms of rate
Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff. And if they're gonna
Speaker 2: be gun and we talk about this a lot, if
Speaker 2: they're going to be a more gun centric team than
Speaker 2: what he's run in the past, window dressing is key,
Speaker 2: Like you have to have motion, you have to have
Speaker 2: elements like that in your offense to bait the defense
Speaker 2: out of passing lanes and to manipulate defense and things
Speaker 2: like that, because you're not going to get the under
Speaker 2: center turn your back to the defense hard play action fake,
Speaker 2: So you have to have orbits where the motion goes
Speaker 2: behind the quarterback, jets where the motion goes in front,
Speaker 2: you know, other different things like that to add elements
Speaker 2: and options for the quarterback to then confuse defenses. So
Speaker 2: he's spent some time, like I said, going around to
Speaker 2: college programs, Chip Kelly, Lincoln Riley, like those types of guys.
Speaker 2: They all major in motion. Every college team does basically
Speaker 2: at the D one level at the high level schools.
Speaker 2: So where does he go with that? How does he
Speaker 2: make this gun offense more I hate to use the
Speaker 2: word modern.
Speaker 1: More, you know, just how does he involve more motion?
Speaker 2: How does he evolve? How does he evolve offensively in
Speaker 2: those respects? I think is important because his last two offenses,
Speaker 2: the Raiders and the Patriots, were both top three and
Speaker 2: under center rate. Right, you're under center almost fifty percent
Speaker 2: of the time in Vegas in twenty two and forty
Speaker 2: three percent of the time with the Patriots in twenty one.
Speaker 2: I just can't imagine that Drake May is going to
Speaker 2: be super comfortable with that. So if you're going to
Speaker 2: be a gun team, how do you now build the
Speaker 2: McDaniels Staples into a gun offense?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: That's a big one, But I don't necessarily think it's impossible.
Speaker 2: It's just where that the where do they go from there?
Speaker 2: Do you have anything else on McDaniel's No, All right,
Speaker 2: let's go over the defensive side with Terrell Williams. So,
Speaker 2: I think is an interesting hire. A lot of really
Speaker 2: really high praise for him as a defensive line coach. Now,
Speaker 2: he's never called the defense before, so that's a big,
Speaker 2: a big known the only guy right now that they
Speaker 2: have that doesn't have all the experience necessary at the
Speaker 2: at the job that he's being hired to do. So
Speaker 2: he's never called plays before. But when you listen to
Speaker 2: former players, current players on the Lions talk about him
Speaker 2: as a defensive line coach, it's nothing but heavy play.
Speaker 1: Jeffrey him on Twitter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's really good with that. He's really good
Speaker 2: with the front. How do they now go out and
Speaker 2: get somebody that maybe knows the secondary in the back
Speaker 2: end a little bit better? Is that Mike Pelgrino. Is
Speaker 2: he like elevated to like a past game coordinator slash,
Speaker 2: you know, secondary coach or something like that. Possibly I'm
Speaker 2: just speculating, Brian, Yeah, that's possible. But with Terrell Williams,
Speaker 2: you just what are your thoughts on him coming aboard?
Speaker 2: And I will put this other caveat in there, it's
Speaker 2: Frable's defense. I have a ton of fear that the
Speaker 2: defense is gonna be in bad hands with the head coach.
Speaker 1: And that, and that's my big takeaway, Like this is
Speaker 1: somebody who worked with Mike Rabel for a long time.
Speaker 1: Rable clearly trust he made him assistant head coaches last
Speaker 1: year in Tennessee. Yeah, And if it's going to be
Speaker 1: Rabel's defense, which I've said all along, that's what I
Speaker 1: want it to be, then it's just about getting somebody
Speaker 1: who is familiar with Rabel, how he wants things done,
Speaker 1: how he wants to operate, all of that. And it
Speaker 1: certainly seems like they got their guy in Williams. So
Speaker 1: I'm with you, not a ton of big picture of
Speaker 1: thoughts because I maybe he calls the defense, maybe Vrabel
Speaker 1: calls it, but I think it all runs through like Rabel,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be his defense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. You know, just a little bit of
Speaker 2: the film study that I've done on their twenty three defense,
Speaker 2: and I think, you know, it's a good thing with Rabel,
Speaker 2: but he's so malleable to the personnel that I don't
Speaker 2: know how much of that was just this is the
Speaker 2: horses that they had, and so they they shifted because
Speaker 2: of that. And that's not necessarily what he is going
Speaker 2: to major in here. But they did a lot more
Speaker 2: four down stuff. They're a lot more even front, four
Speaker 2: down defensive lineman, a lot more aggressive up the field
Speaker 2: penetrating type fronts. You know, they overload a side, they
Speaker 2: go wide and nine with the a gaps open on
Speaker 2: passing downs to run those games and I let the
Speaker 2: three techniques penetrate. They did a lot more of that
Speaker 2: kind of stuff than the Patriots do, and they play
Speaker 2: a lot more zone behind it as well. Now, the
Speaker 2: Patriots I don't think are going to do that in
Speaker 2: terms of zone, but I do think that there's a
Speaker 2: chance that we could see more of a four down
Speaker 2: attacking front with Terrell Williams and with Mike Rabel than
Speaker 2: what we've seen in the past.
Speaker 1: And I for one love it now fits Perl.
Speaker 2: They have to find the linebacker play right, Like that's
Speaker 2: the biggest thing is that with that type of system,
Speaker 2: with guys getting up the field, with the coverage space
Speaker 2: that you want to be able to cover as well.
Speaker 2: Like you don't necessarily want the Juwan Bentley types, right,
Speaker 2: you want the Matt Milanos of the world. You want
Speaker 2: those athletic linebackers, the Fred Warners if you're going to
Speaker 2: run that kind of system. So they would have to
Speaker 2: maybe identify some linebackers that could do that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Zact bond Hello free agency. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: I've been clamoring for them to be more aggressive and
Speaker 2: get there's a place for it. There's a time and
Speaker 2: place for everything in football, but the two gapping build
Speaker 2: a wall, you know, gap integrity in the pass rush,
Speaker 2: don't run past the quarterback. It all has the time
Speaker 2: and place, But at other times you need to be
Speaker 2: able to pressure that well.
Speaker 1: And what you're describing that's going to maximize guys like
Speaker 1: Christian bar More, key On White. If they draft Abdul
Speaker 1: Carter would be a great fit in what you just described.
Speaker 1: So I think they'll be flexible as well, but definitely
Speaker 1: energizing the front that actually minded me. If you want
Speaker 1: to go back, we can do this or not. It's
Speaker 1: up to you. I did like the winners and losers
Speaker 1: of the McDaniels hire for players, we can do it
Speaker 1: or do you want to? I don't want to blow
Speaker 1: the whole show up now. I just thought of it
Speaker 1: because we kind of did that on defense, kind of
Speaker 1: up and down putting. Now i'mutting you on the spot
Speaker 1: with ups and downs.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, this is off season ups and down.
Speaker 1: I had four winners for losers for the McDaniels hire.
Speaker 1: All right, winner Remander Stevenson. Great, we already kind of
Speaker 1: talked about that. I think he's gonna be putting a
Speaker 1: better position. Kendrick Bourne if he's here, if he was
Speaker 1: on a thousand yard pace before he got COVID, now
Speaker 1: that was three years ago and an acl terror goo.
Speaker 1: I get that, yep, but he was. He was excited
Speaker 1: yesterday on social media. I get why. Yeah, Hunter, Henry.
Speaker 2: Yeah had both systems are good with tight ends.
Speaker 1: But yeah, city, So I'll explain the city. So in
Speaker 1: a second, that more to my to my losers. Okay,
Speaker 1: So here are not losers, but like, here's who's going
Speaker 1: to struggle more, here's who's This is not good news
Speaker 1: for Jalen Polk.
Speaker 2: Okay, I think I'm also sure about that one we'll
Speaker 2: called Jalen Polk. Javon Baker won Javon Baker. I can
Speaker 2: understand because of the mental side I be in this offense.
Speaker 2: But doesn't Jalen Polk have a little Jacobe Myers in
Speaker 2: his game?
Speaker 1: Well that's what we thought last year and look what happened.
Speaker 1: So I just like if he struggled with the offense
Speaker 1: and last year, I.
Speaker 2: Feel like this system from a mental standpoint, you mean,
Speaker 2: I guess I can see that. I just think from
Speaker 2: a skill set standpoint, and look, I Jalen Polk is
Speaker 2: one of those guys that I need to see it
Speaker 2: to believe it.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna sit here and count on anything from
Speaker 2: Jalen Polk, no offense to him until he shows it.
Speaker 2: But I do think from a skill set standpoint, you know,
Speaker 2: they've he reminds me a little bit of Jacoby. No,
Speaker 2: he does.
Speaker 1: But I guess here's my point, here's why I put
Speaker 1: him on. Like the guys that might end up on
Speaker 1: the unfortunate side of this, right. Yeah, that's besides the quarterback.
Speaker 1: You can argue that's the most crucial role in Josh
Speaker 1: McDaniel's offense.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When Josh McDaniels, and I'm sure he's already done this,
Speaker 1: but when Josh McDaniels looks at the film and decides
Speaker 1: who from last year he's gonna keep involved, yep. Is
Speaker 1: he gonna see Jalen polk and say, okay, slot receivers
Speaker 1: set or is he gonna say we got to get
Speaker 1: somebody to fill this role. And I just wonder if
Speaker 1: McDaniels wants to go to somebody that is more proven
Speaker 1: and that he maybe feels he can't lie on more
Speaker 1: so in terms of role being in Jeopardy Jalen polkaenough
Speaker 1: and then the other two in this Coast of City
Speaker 1: so point Whole Strange and Laden Robinson. They're gonna go
Speaker 1: back to running downhill, They're gonna go back to running gap.
Speaker 1: We're gonna see power. Right. You just know McDaniels wants
Speaker 1: to go get himself a mic on winning with that
Speaker 1: left guard spot. He wants to go get some three
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty pound mauler at left guard. That's not
Speaker 1: what Cole strangers. That's not what Laydon Robinson is. Maybe
Speaker 1: Strange sticks at center, and that's why I put City Side.
Speaker 1: I think Laydon Robinson is that he's not that big though.
Speaker 1: I think Laden Robinson is a power guard. He's a
Speaker 1: power guard, is like big big.
Speaker 2: I don't think Leadon Robinson's that small.
Speaker 1: I think he's like three ten.
Speaker 2: I think Laydon Robinson fits that scheme. Cole Strange definitely does.
Speaker 2: Laden Robinson. I actually feel like fits a gap scheme
Speaker 2: better than what with the outside So.
Speaker 1: I think City So does yeah too. So that's why
Speaker 1: I had City So on the on the positives because
Speaker 1: I you know, and maybe they bring in somebody else entirely,
Speaker 1: but I think McDaniel's like he wants he's gonna want
Speaker 1: mike O Winnu on the left side. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: like Cole Strange certainly not that guy. Maybe Laden Robinson's
Speaker 1: that guy. Maybe City So is that guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously Joe Tune, he's just.
Speaker 1: On a hal of Joe that's like, yeah, just go
Speaker 1: find your time.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not saying like that they need to find
Speaker 2: a Joe Toney, but I would say that with McDaniels
Speaker 2: in the past, though the left side of the line
Speaker 2: has been geared towards more athletic guys, you know that.
Speaker 2: Nate Soldier, Joe Toney, like, those are the two guys
Speaker 2: that come to mind immediately. Laydon Robinson six, so I
Speaker 2: think he believes a little bit in blind side protection
Speaker 2: and having a strong left side and pass pro and
Speaker 2: all those types of things. They've always they were at
Speaker 2: their best when they had Joe Toney at left guard,
Speaker 2: who is a more athletic, you know, nimble former college
Speaker 2: tackle moving inside to the guard, and Shack Mason at
Speaker 2: right guard. Right, I guess you have your bulldozer on
Speaker 2: the right side next to Marcus Cannon who was another
Speaker 2: bulldozer on the right side, and you had Nate Solder
Speaker 2: and Joe Toney on the left side, who are your
Speaker 2: more athletic, you know, move type of guys. So I
Speaker 2: wouldn't necessarily rule out more athletic guard. It's just not
Speaker 2: it can't be cold strange, right, It's got to be
Speaker 2: somebody that's got a little bit more mass and a
Speaker 2: little bit more play strength than that. Yeah, but I
Speaker 2: do think that there's a possibility that they could go
Speaker 2: after an athletic guard just in a different kind of
Speaker 2: mold than a cold strange. I think those are all true.
Speaker 2: I think Antonio Gibson fits the system really well in
Speaker 2: the passing game. You know, he's that in that James White,
Speaker 2: you know, type of role potentially in this offense, and
Speaker 2: I could see it. I could see that being a
Speaker 2: nice fit. But in terms of as we've been this
Speaker 2: forward and personnel, and you talked about Polk and the
Speaker 2: slot receiver and things like that, I mean this to
Speaker 2: me definitely puts slot receiver or at least Z receiver
Speaker 2: at the very very top of the list of the
Speaker 2: offseason where you need to get a guy that can
Speaker 2: be targeted a one hundred and twenty five times, not
Speaker 2: Pop Douglas and not a wild card right now like
Speaker 2: Jalen Polk, but somebody that can truly be an engine
Speaker 2: to your offense from the slot. And you know that
Speaker 2: to me is you know Abuca Rastrepo, Like, are those
Speaker 2: guys now people that we should really be talking about
Speaker 2: in the draft?
Speaker 1: I see people say Chris Godwin and Freak. I think
Speaker 1: it's a it's a good if, It's an important if.
Speaker 2: But yeaheah, that's a really good one too. But that
Speaker 2: slot role is not it's not a Pop Douglas like
Speaker 2: you know, like to your point earlier, it's not like
Speaker 2: that occasional explosive. No, it's like, this is gonna be
Speaker 2: a ninety catch guy.
Speaker 1: Pop Douglas. To me, if we're gonna comp from past
Speaker 1: McDaniel's offenses, and again, I think it's gonna be different.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if there was something new for
Speaker 1: Pop Douglas that we maybe haven't seen McDaniels do a lot.
Speaker 1: Maybe you combined kind of I almost go to like
Speaker 1: Brandon Cooks and can you have him do some Braindon
Speaker 1: Cooks type stuff, but not that to that level. I
Speaker 1: look at like dannyman Doola. So you combine some of
Speaker 1: the Brandon cook stuff and some of the dany Amandola
Speaker 1: stuff and that's Pop Douglas. But Pop is not a
Speaker 1: volume guy. He's never gonna be a volume guy. And
Speaker 1: they they need that, you know. Julian Edelman, Wes Welker
Speaker 1: can go over the middle, get blasted, get back up next,
Speaker 1: play that sort of thing. So who we were talking
Speaker 1: about a guy recently who you comp to Deon Branch.
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, that's really a comp.
Speaker 2: Oh Golden from Texas. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think I think we said in that conversation, if
Speaker 1: they hire McDaniels, he's a great fit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had said I had like two comps for him,
Speaker 2: Dyon Branch. You know, for people that don't remember Deon
Speaker 2: Branch as well, like I I he reminds me a
Speaker 2: lot of Jayden Reid in Green Bay, who, in Green
Speaker 2: Bay's offense is sort of a sixty percent usage guy
Speaker 2: because they run the ball on early downs and they
Speaker 2: want to run out of two wide receiver and have
Speaker 2: the receiver's block and on the perimeter on outside zone
Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff. And this offense, you know,
Speaker 2: it's always great to have a receiver that can block inside,
Speaker 2: but it's not necessarily quite as important, I would say
Speaker 2: it than like the McVeigh Shanahan offense, because you're not
Speaker 2: running to the perimeter.
Speaker 1: And we've seen some of these guys get here and
Speaker 1: maybe they weren't, Like Edelman was a quarterback in college. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but we saw him kind of learn and embrace because
Speaker 1: he knew we needed to do that to get on
Speaker 1: the field. Embrace that blocking role. It's anothering mcdan is
Speaker 1: as good as a coach, like kind of instill that.
Speaker 1: So maybe Matthew Golden gets here, he starts blocking his
Speaker 1: ass off.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, it's a good point. I do like Matthew
Speaker 2: Golden though, he's smooth. That guy is a smooth explosive
Speaker 2: runs well, runs good routes. It grinds me a lot
Speaker 2: of Dean Branch like. He's not a he's not a
Speaker 2: power guy. Like, he's not gonna like Moss people and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. He's gonna he's gonna finesse you a
Speaker 2: lot like Dion did. So.
Speaker 1: Will Lad McConkie in there too, Little Ladd McConkie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, i' mccomy. Lad McConkie would be a.
Speaker 1: Great McConkey would be like the ideal.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So those are the types of guys that you
Speaker 2: know we as we all know that that we'll be
Speaker 2: looking for with McDaniels on the defense, you have your list?
Speaker 2: Do you have a defense list too?
Speaker 1: Or I was only writing this for offense, but if
Speaker 1: you want to do defense, we can do this off
Speaker 1: the cup here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a couple of guys.
Speaker 1: I mean we are talking about key On White, assuming
Speaker 1: Barbar's healthy. Yeah, those are two big ones. Those are winners.
Speaker 2: Yep. I love the idea of giving Vrabel and Terrell
Speaker 2: Williams Keon White and just seeing if they can hone
Speaker 2: that skill set a little bit. It a little bit,
Speaker 2: two guys that know the defensive line inside and out
Speaker 2: that can coach it really, really well. I just that's
Speaker 2: what also attracts me so much to drafting Abdul Carter
Speaker 2: is because you're gonna be giving this ball of clay
Speaker 2: pass rusher to Mike Vrabel, who's gonna get out there
Speaker 2: with the pad on and is gonna be like doing
Speaker 2: you know, hand technique stuff and teaching him things and
Speaker 2: having him watch old film and things like that. Like
Speaker 2: that's that's what you want out of a pairing, you know,
Speaker 2: fourth overall pick head coach type of thing. I think
Speaker 2: Keon fits that same bill. You know, he talks a
Speaker 2: lot about last season, how he didn't get the coaching
Speaker 2: that he wanted, he didn't feel like he was being
Speaker 2: coached hard enough, corrected all that kind of stuff. I
Speaker 2: don't think that's gonna be an issue with these two guys,
Speaker 2: so that that will be exciting. I hope that they
Speaker 2: can get it out of them.
Speaker 1: So those guys for ups downs you mentioned Bentley, Yeah,
Speaker 1: to buy kind of that same thing, like secondary is
Speaker 1: kind of personnel specific, right, Yeah. To me, it's already
Speaker 1: going to have a true free safety or they keep
Speaker 1: going to keep trying to play Dugger Peppers right there right,
Speaker 1: If you had a true free safety, this is great
Speaker 1: for Duger and Peppers because they can be those kind
Speaker 1: of more athletic linebackers.
Speaker 2: I would assume that a variable and Williams just based
Speaker 2: off of what they did in Tennessee. They were pretty
Speaker 2: flexible with their safeties in Tennessee, like Bayert always played
Speaker 2: up top, but they were pretty flexible with guys, and
Speaker 2: they seem to know how to use those tweeters kind
Speaker 2: of like have that Bill secret sauce of you know,
Speaker 2: this is what you're good at, this is what you're
Speaker 2: not good at. But I do wonder what the safety
Speaker 2: is with Dugger and assuming that Peppers is available to play,
Speaker 2: do they have to get away from that a little
Speaker 2: bit because of how similar they are. And I don't
Speaker 2: know if that necessarily fits. I don't know if it
Speaker 2: even would have fit one hundred percent of Bill is
Speaker 2: still here, right Like, I just don't know if that
Speaker 2: tandem as good at individually as those players can be
Speaker 2: when they're at when they're playing well and at their peaks.
Speaker 2: I just don't know if I ever have loved the
Speaker 2: fit next to each other. So maybe they do go
Speaker 2: out and sign a Javon Holland or somebody like that
Speaker 2: and make a splash and free agency on a true
Speaker 2: free safety that can play up top. I certainly would
Speaker 2: love Javon Holland, but you know, any sort of you know,
Speaker 2: combination of that. But I'm interested to see what this
Speaker 2: defensive line does with Williams. It was a big issue
Speaker 2: last year. They couldn't stop the run. We all know
Speaker 2: that they couldn't rush the passer, they couldn't play in
Speaker 2: the trenches. And as much as I have concerns, you know,
Speaker 2: small Sea again, concerns about him never calling plays before
Speaker 2: on a defense he is allotted for his work with
Speaker 2: the defensive line.
Speaker 1: Do you think he's gonna call it? Do you think
Speaker 1: Rabel's gonna call it?
Speaker 2: I would assume he's gonna call it with Rabel overseeing
Speaker 2: it a lot like Bill used to. Do you know,
Speaker 2: with the guys that were a little bit early on
Speaker 2: in their careers as play callers, you know Steve early on,
Speaker 2: Patricia early on, where it was one of those things
Speaker 2: where it's like, all right, like what are we thinking here?
Speaker 2: Like what are we doing? Big third down? You know what,
Speaker 2: what's what's what's your next play call gonna be here?
Speaker 2: And just trying to keep them on their p's and
Speaker 2: q's and keeping them ahead of things. That's the biggest
Speaker 2: thing from a play caller, other than marrying the front
Speaker 2: and coverage and all that stuff, it's also understanding the
Speaker 2: situation and like what's coming right, Like, Okay, we're gonna
Speaker 2: have this third down, what's what are we protecting against?
Speaker 2: What are their tendencies and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: I think sometimes you know, play callers that are young
Speaker 2: and inexperienced, Uh, they they're just calling plays to try
Speaker 2: to do what they want to do, and they're not
Speaker 2: necessarily thinking about the picture, the bigger picture of the
Speaker 2: opponent's tendency, the game situation. You know, I don't need
Speaker 2: to pick on him, but like setting it all out,
Speaker 2: blitz at Matthew Stafford for a seventy yard touchdown to
Speaker 2: Cooper cup right, like, thinking of those types of things
Speaker 2: I think are important for young play callers, not that
Speaker 2: he's young, but inexperienced play callers. That I that is
Speaker 2: why I'm I'm so excited about McDaniels because you don't
Speaker 2: have to worry about any of that stuff on offense.
Speaker 2: Like he's been there, done it, you know, So that's
Speaker 2: exciting from that aspect of it as well. Any losers
Speaker 2: on defense other than the safeties, I guess, I said
Speaker 2: Bentley to VI, Yeah, some of those tweener guys I
Speaker 2: do always worry about, you know, is every coach gonna
Speaker 2: see that as a useful thing that you're kind of
Speaker 2: like this hybrid tweener type of player. I always worry
Speaker 2: about those guys.
Speaker 1: God show, are not gonna two gap?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Godshaw. If they're gonna you know, they might play
Speaker 2: some of that you know, shaded nose, those overfronts and
Speaker 2: things like that where the noses in the a gap
Speaker 2: and is still really considered a not a two gaper necessarily,
Speaker 2: but he's got to hold the point of attack, right,
Speaker 2: that's his primary responsibility. But a true nose, like Godshaw, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I could see that being something that they go away
Speaker 2: from I like that though, Like let's get aggressive, Like
Speaker 2: let's get up the field, let's put some pressure on
Speaker 2: the quarterback, you know, let's get in the backfield and
Speaker 2: make some plays behind the line of scrimmage. Like, I
Speaker 2: think too much of this defense. Even when you stuff
Speaker 2: the run, it was still like a two or three
Speaker 2: yard game, and that's considered a stuff. But like, there
Speaker 2: was not enough penetration. There was not enough splash plays
Speaker 2: behind the line of scrimmage from this group for the
Speaker 2: last couple of years. And that's how you get teams
Speaker 2: off schedule, and that's how you get them into long
Speaker 2: third downs where you can rush the passer and you
Speaker 2: can blitz, and you can dial it up and you
Speaker 2: can create turnovers in a flip field position. Like I
Speaker 2: just feel like that's more of what they need to
Speaker 2: do defensively, lasting on this and we'll we'll open it
Speaker 2: up to everybody. Lots of emails, lots of phone calls.
Speaker 2: I wonder in the draft at the top, if there's
Speaker 2: a couple of guys that I am not necessarily in
Speaker 2: love with for them that maybe are in play Mason Graham, Yeah,
Speaker 2: if they're gonna run four down, Uh, if they're gonna
Speaker 2: run you know, uh, double three techniques, things like that.
Speaker 2: A lot more of that, it becomes a little bit
Speaker 2: more of a possibility. And even though I don't like
Speaker 2: it because I I need not necessarily like I wouldn't
Speaker 2: say that it's a high floor is probably the wrong
Speaker 2: way to put it, but I just I want to
Speaker 2: hit down the fairway. But like some of those Georgia
Speaker 2: guys like MIKEL Williams for example, who is raw. But
Speaker 2: if you give them to you, guys that know what
Speaker 2: they're doing and developing defensive linemen like Vrabel and Terrell Williams,
Speaker 2: like could they get him to that next step of
Speaker 2: his development in like a trade down scenario obviously, Like
Speaker 2: if you're trading down to the eight to twelve range
Speaker 2: and you just want to go with upside and tools
Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff and have Terrell Williams
Speaker 2: coach the guy up, then I think some of those
Speaker 2: those bulldogs, you know, Williams in particular, is somebody that
Speaker 2: could be back on their radars. But exciting stuff we have.
Speaker 2: We have a coaching stept.
Speaker 1: Maybe Luthor Burden will hire on the board too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that idea. Yeah, yeah, I like Luthor Burden,
Speaker 2: you know that. Yeah, I can see that. Anything on Springer, well,
Speaker 2: that's your your's your slam.
Speaker 1: You know it was good. There's good special teams unit
Speaker 1: last year. Yep, no need to over complicate it. Vrabel's
Speaker 1: familiar with Tom Quinn. Tom Quinn, who's the assistant. I'm
Speaker 1: glad Springer's back. I also thought he just did a
Speaker 1: good job last year. We haven't talked about this a
Speaker 1: lot because it's not like a football thing, but you
Speaker 1: want kind of the tone of the coaching staff to change, right,
Speaker 1: not walking things back press conferences, passing around blame things
Speaker 1: like that. I still go back to the answer that
Speaker 1: Springer gave that last Friday of the year when he
Speaker 1: was asked about what it was like getting booed, he
Speaker 1: was like, look, it's our job to make essentially on paraphrasing, yeah,
Speaker 1: so our job to make sure they don't boo us.
Speaker 1: They're paying good money, they're taking their time out to
Speaker 1: watch us, to follow us. We got to give them
Speaker 1: something better. I think that's kind of the tone you
Speaker 1: want this coaching staff to take.
Speaker 2: So okay, sorry really quickly, but before we we take
Speaker 2: calls and stuff. I do want to go over some
Speaker 2: of the assistant coaches and potential hires there, So Tony
Speaker 2: dues from the Jets. It sounds like it's being reported
Speaker 2: that he's going to come over to the Patriots and
Speaker 2: be their running backs coach. I believe, right? Is that
Speaker 2: is that reported that he's gonna still coach running backs.
Speaker 2: He's been a long time running backs coach, so I
Speaker 2: assume you coach running backs. But the biggest hire now
Speaker 2: from this point, and I know I'm going to shock
Speaker 2: everybody when I say this, but it's the truth. The
Speaker 2: biggest hire now is offensive line.
Speaker 1: Coach, right, other than wide receivers coach.
Speaker 2: Yeah, offensive line coach is the biggest higher on the
Speaker 2: staff other than your coordinators and your head coach for
Speaker 2: any staff. So a couple names here. Obviously the guy
Speaker 2: that I would target, and it gets complicated because he's
Speaker 2: under contract with the Giants. But I had to bring
Speaker 2: Carn Brosello back in a second. I think he's a
Speaker 2: really good coach there. He was great here in twenty
Speaker 2: and twenty one with the Patriots. He was good in
Speaker 2: Vegas in twenty two. If they can get Carn Bacello
Speaker 2: free from the Giants. If he, you know, has a
Speaker 2: really long standing relationship with Josh McDaniels. Maybe it's kind
Speaker 2: of like what Rabel's doing with some of his guys,
Speaker 2: like you know, Stretch and Trell Williams. Maybe Brian Dable
Speaker 2: you know, says okay, fine, you know, like he goes
Speaker 2: to Brian Dable and Brisila says, hey, like Josh, my guy,
Speaker 2: Like you know, he's back coordinating the offense in New England.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with him. I would hope that that
Speaker 2: would be the case. That would be my number one pick.
Speaker 2: Keith Carter, who's was the Jets offensive line coach last year,
Speaker 2: was with Rabel and Tennessee, that's another name to watch.
Speaker 2: And I would say Camberon Clemens, who's right now is
Speaker 2: on the forty nine Ers staff, is their assistant coach
Speaker 2: offensive line coach, was on the Titan staff as well
Speaker 2: as their assistant offensive line coach for a number of years.
Speaker 2: So Carl Brisill is the guy to me if you
Speaker 2: can get him out of New York. Yeah, that's who
Speaker 2: I would target. But that's a big higher and second
Speaker 2: to that big higher wide receivers coach. I agree with you.
Speaker 2: Chad o'sha is an obvious connections. He's in Cleveland right.
Speaker 1: Now, and he worked with Rable last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, worked with Rabele last year. He's their past game
Speaker 2: coordinator and their wide receivers coach though, so he's got
Speaker 2: a pretty good title with the Browns. So I don't
Speaker 2: know how that would work. And I like Wes Welker.
Speaker 2: I like the idea of bringing Wes Welker back, have
Speaker 2: him start training up whoever's going to play his position
Speaker 2: in the slot in particular, he's played in this offense.
Speaker 2: He knows it inside and out. He was an All
Speaker 2: Pro player in this offense. And you know he's coached
Speaker 2: in some other offenses in San Francisco and Miami in
Speaker 2: that West Coast tree where he could bring some of
Speaker 2: that flavor maybe potentially to it from a skill Maddox standpoint.
Speaker 2: So I like the Noche is kind of the safe option. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I kind of like taking a little bit of a
Speaker 2: swing on Wes Well.
Speaker 1: I like, I've been big on Welker for a while.
Speaker 1: Now I'll give you one more. And I don't know
Speaker 1: that he's a connection. I just think he's a hell
Speaker 1: of a coach of Sean Jefferson. Yeah, and assuming New
Speaker 1: York rebuilds its staff, which you think they will. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Sean Jefferson had him to the list.
Speaker 2: Yep. All right, So that that was my list in
Speaker 2: terms of the offensive line coaches and things like that.
Speaker 2: So let's take some of these phone calls. I know
Speaker 2: you guys have been waiting. Sean is in Vancouver. What's up, Sean?
Speaker 5: Hey, Evin, I want to defend your answer to the
Speaker 5: question about your favorite running play. I like Power. I
Speaker 5: think it's a good running play and I think Baber
Speaker 5: was excited about it bringing in the pullback, and we
Speaker 5: need to, you know, win in the trenches. They need
Speaker 5: to establish a run because the most important point to
Speaker 5: me is like that's going to open up the play auction.
Speaker 5: You've got to have defenses thinking that you're you're going
Speaker 5: to run the ball. And Alex I also agree with you.
Speaker 5: I know everyone want to talk about it, but with
Speaker 5: the short yardage jumbo package and having Joe Milton in
Speaker 5: there and you know, maybe doing a tush push or whatever,
Speaker 5: but we need to they also need to win some
Speaker 5: short yardage, especially at the goal line. Would be nice
Speaker 5: to just be able to run in the ball there
Speaker 5: when they can when it's the first and goal. And
Speaker 5: one more thing, last thing, Bevan, I like your too
Speaker 5: to read because they remind me of the comedian, the
Speaker 5: late great Gary Shanley when he said, you know what
Speaker 5: do they I just got a new car. What do
Speaker 5: they call it? Is it called a Porsche or Porsche?
Speaker 5: I can never get that right. So I'm the proud
Speaker 5: over of a new toyot. So that's it. I'll leave
Speaker 5: you on that and you can comment.
Speaker 6: Thanks.
Speaker 2: Thanks, John. Look, I'm not anti the Joe Milton package,
Speaker 2: all right, and I.
Speaker 1: Love It's just fun, So you don't want to talk about.
Speaker 2: Josh McDaniels has always been like you said, flea flickers,
Speaker 2: double passes, like all the trick players have always been in.
Speaker 2: Josh McDaniels is in his bag. I'm not anti any
Speaker 2: of that stuff. I had just more interest and talking
Speaker 2: about what their base concepts are going to be and
Speaker 2: how they're actually going to move the ball offensively. Not
Speaker 2: the one time a game that they want talking about.
Speaker 1: We'll get into that in the spring. But if we're
Speaker 1: talking about what excites us about Josh McDaniel's overall, I
Speaker 1: think it fits. Uh From the YouTube chat here. I
Speaker 1: got so you mentioned carl and Brisilla for offensive line coach. Yes,
Speaker 1: Cole Popovich.
Speaker 2: So, and this is again, this is just my read
Speaker 2: on it. I'm not reporting anything. But it seemed to
Speaker 2: me that Cole Popovich and that whole twenty twenty COVID
Speaker 2: season and all that stuff, he burned a bridge with Bill.
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty clear.
Speaker 2: I know, but it's I mean, Josh is an extension.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking about bringing Welker back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's different.
Speaker 1: Well, he definitely a bridge, not like this.
Speaker 2: I think they Cole Popovitch. Something happened. I don't want
Speaker 2: to speculate, but something happened with Cole Popovich, that clearly
Speaker 2: because they had multiple opportunities to reopen that door. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and they didn't, you know, twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: they had opportunities to bring him back on the offensive
Speaker 2: staff and they had no desire. So maybe Josh it's
Speaker 2: a different guy. I totally can side that. But that
Speaker 2: it's a good name, it's a it's a good name.
Speaker 2: Let's continue with the calls because these guys have been waiting,
Speaker 2: and then we'll get to some of these emails. Getting
Speaker 2: tons of emails, which is great. Patty is an ago on.
Speaker 2: What's up, Patty? Patty?
Speaker 1: Patty? What's up?
Speaker 2: All right? Patty? You call back and I know you will.
Speaker 2: All right? Justin is in Virginia. What's up? Justin?
Speaker 3: Hey?
Speaker 1: What's up?
Speaker 3: Fella?
Speaker 1: Team?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 4: Hey?
Speaker 7: So let's say, because we always talk about who we
Speaker 7: want to draft, but like we don't talk about like
Speaker 7: the free agency portion of it. I got a hypothetical
Speaker 7: free agency and I want to ask who you want
Speaker 7: to get with the fourth overall pick if this is
Speaker 7: a free agency. So let's say you failed to get
Speaker 7: Te Higgins, you get Chris Godwin off of an ACL
Speaker 7: you feel like he is like eighty percent? There, you
Speaker 7: get Cam Robinson and Jedrick Wills. You're at the fourth
Speaker 7: overall pick at dual Carter, Travis Hunter and Cam Ward
Speaker 7: with before you.
Speaker 4: Who do you want?
Speaker 2: All right? So wait, let me hang run that back,
Speaker 2: run the names and free age. It's tough when we're
Speaker 2: just listening.
Speaker 7: Yeah, okay, so you've got you failed to get Higgins,
Speaker 7: Chris god off of an ad L. Do you feel
Speaker 7: like he's eighty percent?
Speaker 6: There?
Speaker 7: You got Cam Robinson and Jedrick Wills as your tackles.
Speaker 7: You don't have anybody you feel like is that notable
Speaker 7: of the name outside of these guys when it comes
Speaker 7: to the draft at dual Carter cam Ward and Travis
Speaker 7: Hunter went, I mean, yeah, those guys.
Speaker 1: Those guys are off. Okay, Okay, I get it. So basically,
Speaker 1: you solve tackle, you solve receiver. Ish thanks for the
Speaker 1: Carter and Carter and Hunter off, which, regardless of the
Speaker 1: freegency stuff, there's a real chance Carter and Hunter both
Speaker 1: off the board. I'm not ruling that out, so that
Speaker 1: is something we'll need to discuss. I'll just say this
Speaker 1: real quick. I'm good on Jedrick Wills. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: Hurt a lot of heard a lot of stuff out
Speaker 1: of Cleveland about him just having like a compete level issue.
Speaker 2: And that's a lot of injuries.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not the kind of guy they need in that scenario.
Speaker 1: I'm trading down. I'm definitely trading down. And then depending
Speaker 1: on where I end up. You know, if Ted McMillan's
Speaker 1: still there, him and Godwin as your your ex and
Speaker 1: your z or your ex and your slot, I think
Speaker 1: there's some potential there. Yeah, I still might take a tackle.
Speaker 1: Uh and maybe play. No, I probably wouldn't because it's
Speaker 1: gonna be Robinson and and maybe take a right tackle
Speaker 1: maybe now a guy like you're not trading down far
Speaker 1: enough for Emory Jones, So no, I guess not. You know,
Speaker 1: I take Luther Burden because it's gonna be tough to
Speaker 1: get him and God went on the field at the
Speaker 1: same time, maybe like probably best defensive player available is
Speaker 1: where I'd go. Whether that is yes, Mason Graham, Michael
Speaker 1: Williams now, I might have a conversation about will Johnson
Speaker 1: honestly if he falls a little bit after a down year.
Speaker 2: If you are really confident that you have solved tackle,
Speaker 2: like you've signed two guys that you really feel are
Speaker 2: starting caliber players and are going to be seamless, you know,
Speaker 2: plug and play type of guys in free agency, I
Speaker 2: don't know how you get there.
Speaker 1: Can you do that? And do that?
Speaker 2: Hey?
Speaker 1: If you are that confident off of the guys that
Speaker 1: are available in free agency this year, and that's kind
Speaker 1: of a red flag to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think Alec Jackson's a nice player.
Speaker 1: No, I do you think he leaves No, I don't
Speaker 1: think anybody.
Speaker 2: Wants to leave LA. But I think Aleric Janson Jackson's
Speaker 2: a nice player. I don't see guys like Rodnie Stanley
Speaker 2: hitting the open market, and Cam Robinson after that playoff
Speaker 2: game definitely gives me some pause. Twelve quarterback pressure is
Speaker 2: allowed in the playoff game. Not pretty, not pretty. So
Speaker 2: I don't know how you solve tackle. But if we
Speaker 2: just go off the assumption that you solve tackle, and
Speaker 2: then we're going off just to play out the scenario
Speaker 2: that Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter are also off the board,
Speaker 2: Ted McMillan does become intriguing because.
Speaker 1: He also had them signing Godwin too.
Speaker 2: Right, And then that's your nice compliment on the outside.
Speaker 2: It just kind of seems like that would complete your offense,
Speaker 2: and at that point you are just looking for that
Speaker 2: finishing piece.
Speaker 1: You know what. So I'll say this. Let's say hypothetically
Speaker 1: you solve tackle, yeah, which again I don't know that
Speaker 1: you can do. But you solved that, Yeah, You've You've
Speaker 1: gotten Chris Godwin, who's a good wide receiver. So you
Speaker 1: had a pretty good free agency. As much as I
Speaker 1: hate not addressing the defense, I'd probably look for a
Speaker 1: pass rusher. There's also a part of me that thinks,
Speaker 1: all right, we did a hell of a job in
Speaker 1: frequency with this roster. Instead of moving down six, seven
Speaker 1: to eight, let's move down to twelve get an absolute haul.
Speaker 1: Let's get a second this year and a few first
Speaker 1: next year, and then I might take Tyler Warren.
Speaker 2: Okay, I can see Tyler Warren being great.
Speaker 1: And Tyler Warren and Josh mcton, and now it's and
Speaker 1: now I have you know you're probably picking. You're picking
Speaker 1: at thirty eight, you're picking again in the top fifty.
Speaker 1: I'm hammering those those early Day two edge guys, the
Speaker 1: Jack Sawyers, the Princely, the guy from from old Missus
Speaker 1: name I can't remember right now right, I'm hammering maybe
Speaker 1: Dion Walker. I'm hammering the defensive front on those Day
Speaker 1: two picks. And now I have two first round picks
Speaker 1: last year and next year, and if pass rusher is
Speaker 1: still not solved, I'm flying up the board next year
Speaker 1: and getting a pass rusher.
Speaker 2: It's not a bad plan.
Speaker 1: I now that's there's a lot of ifs that you
Speaker 1: have to do to get there, right, and I don't
Speaker 1: know that they're all achievable. But if that's what we're doing,
Speaker 1: I still might take Michael Williams, but a part of
Speaker 1: me says, let's get that absolute haul for next year
Speaker 1: and let's have some fun with Tyler Warren.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I just I like Tyler Warren as a player.
Speaker 2: I always am cognizant in general of building your offense
Speaker 2: through a tight end. Because but you've added Chris Godwin. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but Chris Godwin, I'm not sure where he's at.
Speaker 1: I guess Tyler.
Speaker 2: Warren is a phenomenal talent. Don't get me wrong. He's
Speaker 2: not brought Bowers, but he's a phenomenal talent. But unless
Speaker 2: you're really thinking that that tight end is Gronker Travis Kelsey.
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna say those are the only.
Speaker 2: Two guys that I can think of in recent I
Speaker 2: guess you could kind of say Mark Andrews when he
Speaker 2: was in his prime, Andrews not great timing but like
Speaker 2: Buffalo legend, but like a couple of years ago, like
Speaker 2: maybe you could have said Mark Andrews. But that's with Lamar,
Speaker 2: who is like obviously.
Speaker 1: His thing's its own. But I'll say this, if there
Speaker 1: is anybody who's experienced building an offense not just around
Speaker 1: one tight end, but two tight ends, Yeah, No, this
Speaker 1: is the guy. And you're gonna have Hunter Henry. You know,
Speaker 1: you're probably gonna run out of twelve A Tony. You
Speaker 1: might end up using Tyler Warren kind of as your
Speaker 1: second slot guy. Yeah, and you're gonna run out of
Speaker 1: twelve a ton with Hunter Henry, Tyler Warren, Chris Godwin.
Speaker 7: And.
Speaker 2: You're gonna You're gonna have some big boys out there.
Speaker 1: I'll throw Kendrick Bourne in there. I guess is that
Speaker 1: next guy. Yeah, and that's gonna be your offense. You
Speaker 1: could donate it.
Speaker 2: I just feel again like this is sort of more
Speaker 2: than thing. Like I just if you don't have like
Speaker 2: a true Gronk Kelsey level talent at tight end, like
Speaker 2: building your passing game around the tight end position can
Speaker 2: be difficult, and there are examples of it really at
Speaker 2: the top of the draft, especially you know Kyle Pitts. Uh,
Speaker 2: let's see brought Bauers had an awesome rookie year individually,
Speaker 2: Let's see what that offense looks like if he's the
Speaker 2: engine of the offense, Like, can they build it out
Speaker 2: around him? I think you still have to have something
Speaker 2: on the outside. You still have to have, you know,
Speaker 2: a great quarterback obviously. Uh, and I just worry about
Speaker 2: that being Okay, he's our number our number one coverage
Speaker 2: dictating game plan Tuesday player. Is our tight end. That's
Speaker 2: that tight end. Better be a dude like that. Better
Speaker 2: be a stud tight end.
Speaker 1: That's true, I guess yeah. And again this is all
Speaker 1: there's so many ifs here, right, Carter's not on the board.
Speaker 1: You've solved these things in free agency.
Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, like a guy like you, I said,
Speaker 2: Tech McMillan, And I know that I've been kind of
Speaker 2: lukewarm on Tep McMillan, But the main reason why I
Speaker 2: am luke warm on McMillan is because he's a finishing
Speaker 2: piece to me, Like you can't. The Patriots are not
Speaker 2: in a position right now to be drafting finishing pieces
Speaker 2: or like you know, the cherry on top of their offense.
Speaker 2: They're not in that spot yet. They need to build
Speaker 2: up the offensive line, They need to build up the
Speaker 2: trenches on both sides of the football. They need to
Speaker 2: get that foundation so that when you drop a Tech
Speaker 2: McMillan into this offense. Now you have Stefan Diggs in Buffalo,
Speaker 2: you have Aj Brown in Philadelphia, like you're hitting the
Speaker 2: ground running at that point. This is why look at
Speaker 2: the Giants, and I know the Giants have a much
Speaker 2: worse quarterback situation, but the Giants draft in my league neighbors,
Speaker 2: he's awesome. What did it do for him?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: It didn't move the needle, It didn't. He's a great player.
Speaker 2: It did nothing for them. So until you get to
Speaker 2: that point where you can start drafting. You know, we
Speaker 2: talked a lot about the Lions yesterday, and you know,
Speaker 2: somebody emailed it and said, well, you know, like, why
Speaker 2: would you stick your nose up to drafting Jamiir Gibbs.
Speaker 2: I don't if you are in the position the Lions
Speaker 2: were in when they drafted Jamiir Gibbs. They already had
Speaker 2: the offensive line, they already had Penny Sewel, they already
Speaker 2: had the quarterback. Like, so he was there, Sony Michelle,
Speaker 2: but better right, he was the finishing piece. Uh. And
Speaker 2: that that's That's where I'm at with the wide receiver
Speaker 2: position early in the job, because I feel like that
Speaker 2: call not to like pick on the caller at all,
Speaker 2: but I feel like that situation was begging us to
Speaker 2: say Ted mc millan, right, right, And so that That's
Speaker 2: where I'm at with that. Was there something else you
Speaker 2: wanted to say? All right, let's Patty's back. I knew
Speaker 2: he would be. What's up, Patty guy? You doing.
Speaker 3: Doing all right? Today? I got a couple of questions.
Speaker 3: So the first one is, Alex, if we're we're able
Speaker 3: to if Carter's there and we take him and we're
Speaker 3: able to like move up, or if we stay stationary
Speaker 3: and Ariantierser's there, is that do you consider that being
Speaker 3: like half assed in the left tackle position? That's the
Speaker 3: first question. Yeah, okay, And can both of you kind
Speaker 3: of sell me on Mason Graham because I, uh, may
Speaker 3: I'm crazy. Maybe it's just me. I think you can
Speaker 3: get like good interior guys, defensive interior guys and free
Speaker 3: agency possibly. I don't know what the list looks like
Speaker 3: this year for for interior, but I mean we need
Speaker 3: we need that guy, that guy to get after the quarterback,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. So like, if if you
Speaker 3: guys think he's worth it, if he's zerik for and
Speaker 3: the other guys are gone, just try and sell me
Speaker 3: on him. I'll take that off their.
Speaker 2: Guys, thanks, Patty. So the sell for Mason Graham is
Speaker 2: Jalen Carter right, Like, if he comes.
Speaker 1: In, it's not gonna let's not go that nuts.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying he's that type of player. I'm just
Speaker 2: saying interior pressure. Jalen Carter, the name of that. I
Speaker 2: really think that he reminds me of the most is.
Speaker 2: I know I always say the name around, but Fisk
Speaker 2: or Fiskey and with the ram like just that active
Speaker 2: up the field, tenacious, uh playmaker at that spot. And
Speaker 2: I think Graham's a little bit more well rounded, which
Speaker 2: is why Fiskey fell to the second round or Fisk
Speaker 2: or whatever fell to the second round, and Graham's gonna
Speaker 2: go top ten. But the cell is is that with
Speaker 2: him and Christian Barmore hopefully back at full capacity next year,
Speaker 2: you were going to push the interior of the pocket consistently.
Speaker 2: That's the cell. Now. I'm kind of with Patty like,
Speaker 2: I don't love the positional value of that. It fails
Speaker 2: very very Washington Commander's circle like twenty sixteen to me,
Speaker 2: where they had all all those guys like Deron, No,
Speaker 2: they're all great players, but where did that get them? Right?
Speaker 2: Like they drafted, remember that that streak they had where
Speaker 2: they drafted like nothing but interior defensive lineman for like
Speaker 2: three or four straight years. Yeah, all from Alabama, and
Speaker 2: they had all these first round picks on their defensive
Speaker 2: line and they stunk right, Like I just that would
Speaker 2: be what I would worry about a little bit. I
Speaker 2: would much rather get the complimentary piece off the edge.
Speaker 2: We all love Abdul Carter, but even if it ends
Speaker 2: up being somebody.
Speaker 1: Else, Michael Williams, James Pears.
Speaker 2: I would kind of rather go that route and be
Speaker 2: more balanced where you have like three points of a tea, especially.
Speaker 1: If you're I mean, if it's if it's Mason Graham
Speaker 1: or Michael Carter, plus you get an extra top fifty
Speaker 1: pick because you're probably trading down. I would much rather that.
Speaker 1: I would much rather that. I think Graham's a good player.
Speaker 1: I just don't know if the spots the Patriots are
Speaker 1: in right now, it doesn't make a ton of sense.
Speaker 2: And I know he's not a three down interior player necessarily,
Speaker 2: but when you're talking about obvious pass, like third down,
Speaker 2: obvious pass like can't Keon White kind of do the
Speaker 2: same thing next to Christian bar More that Mason Graham's
Speaker 2: gonna do for you in terms of penetrating and lining
Speaker 2: up over guards and rushing inside. Like I feel like
Speaker 2: you already have that at that third down interior pass
Speaker 2: rush tandem if you have both those guys healthy and
Speaker 2: playing well at the same time. So I just that's
Speaker 2: that's it.
Speaker 1: My good player's great player, great player my rule thumb
Speaker 1: for this draft. And Evan, maybe this is too simplistic,
Speaker 1: but the Patriots have three either blue chair or potentially
Speaker 1: blue chip players on the roster. That's it. They have
Speaker 1: three guys that are true like playmaker. You're gonna count
Speaker 1: on them down and down out guys, Drake May, Christian
Speaker 1: ZoZ assuming health, Christian Barber. Right, you have so many
Speaker 1: other needs, so many needs to take a player at
Speaker 1: one of those three positions at the top of the draft,
Speaker 1: and you have all those other needs. To me, is
Speaker 1: just your consolidating talent too much. You need to spread
Speaker 1: the talent around the roster. Now, if we find out,
Speaker 1: and obviously don't want this to happen, but if we
Speaker 1: were to find out that Christian Barmber can't play football
Speaker 1: anymore because it was a medical condition, now all right,
Speaker 1: it becomes a much more realistic conversation to me because
Speaker 1: you don't already have that guy in that spot. But
Speaker 1: assuming Christian Barmore is coming back, I just you gotta
Speaker 1: spread the wealth. There's too many other positions that need
Speaker 1: to be addressed for you to be like, we have
Speaker 1: four elite players, two of them are a defensive tackle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the Washington Commanders in twenty like eighteen, Well, they.
Speaker 1: Were just drafting as many Alabama players as they got,
Speaker 1: and all the best Alabama players happen to be defensive line.
Speaker 2: That's what it was though, No, that's what it was.
Speaker 1: But the roster, I think what happened was they just
Speaker 1: were ignoring the positions and looking for the guys that
Speaker 1: had Alabama next oh Man, and they all have to
Speaker 1: be in lineman because those fronts were unbelievable. Confidence they
Speaker 1: were confident was Alabama.
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Speaker 2: let's get to some of these emails, because we have
Speaker 2: seventeen million of them and we really appreciate it. You know,
Speaker 2: this is uh, I know This is from Tyler in Connecticut.
Speaker 2: He was just wondering if we had any you know,
Speaker 2: we all know t Higgins, all know the big names.
Speaker 2: Is there any any under the radar free agents that
Speaker 2: we would like to see the Patriots target in free agency?
Speaker 2: And I have one and he does list him here.
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's necessarily under the radar he's
Speaker 2: going to be like an all pro, but I love
Speaker 2: me some Zach Bond with Philadelphia. Yeah, I think that
Speaker 2: he's one of those guys. They might tag him in
Speaker 2: some way, transition, franchise, whatever, But if he hits the
Speaker 2: open market, I am definitely in on a Zach Bond
Speaker 2: athletic can play on the ball or off the line
Speaker 2: of scrimmage, like He's one of those classic Patriot Mike
Speaker 2: Rabel style linebackers that you can just move around the
Speaker 2: front and do different things with, can cover really well
Speaker 2: down the field. So I'm a big Zach Bond guy.
Speaker 2: I mentioned Alaric Jackson earlier. I think that if you
Speaker 2: look at this tackles in the class and you assume
Speaker 2: like Ronnie Stanley's not available, I think alar Jackson solves
Speaker 2: a spot, at least as a stop gap and not
Speaker 2: a Chuoxacorp for a stop gap. Like, yeah, he's a
Speaker 2: real y, real NFL offensive tackle. So those would be
Speaker 2: my two off the top of my head.
Speaker 1: So I'll give you a couple, I've said, Carlton Davis, Yep,
Speaker 1: kind of. I don't think that they do need a
Speaker 1: second corner. It's not something they need to address super heavily.
Speaker 1: He's falling down, you good, good, this thing's fallow that
Speaker 1: So I'm sure people can hear me, Carlton Davis. You know,
Speaker 1: adding another corner I think would make a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: He gives them that size, that physicality, then he'll give
Speaker 1: you one on offense. This literally just came to me.
Speaker 1: I can't believe it took me this, I'll even think
Speaker 1: of it. We were talking about slot receivers, right, a
Speaker 1: guy you can trust, trying to get that Jacobe Meyers type.
Speaker 1: When I first saw this guy when he came into
Speaker 1: the league in twenty twenty, I was like, that's a
Speaker 1: Patriots receiver. And we didn't know what was gonna happen
Speaker 1: with Belichick and McDaniels and all that, but I remember
Speaker 1: seeing him being like, that guy's gonna play for the
Speaker 1: Patriots some point and he's finally a free AGENTI this year,
Speaker 1: and it just so happens. He has a good relationship
Speaker 1: with new head coach Nick Westbrook A Kine.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, No, he's a good player.
Speaker 1: He's a very reliable, steady, consistent pass catcher. He's got
Speaker 1: the frame. I don't think he was that volume guy
Speaker 1: in Tennessee. I'd have to look up his stats.
Speaker 2: I don't know what his no, but you're high for
Speaker 2: targets the Patriots last year. Not that that's everything, but
Speaker 2: he's yeah, he's so's his number three.
Speaker 1: But he's never had more than sixty catch sixty targets
Speaker 1: in a season. But if you were to sign a T.
Speaker 1: Higgins draft, a DK Metcalf trade for DK Metcalf draft
Speaker 1: Ted McMillan, right, you get that guy at the X
Speaker 1: and now Nick Westbrookie Keene is your slot z yep.
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty good. And I don't know, am
Speaker 1: I wrong Evan that I think he's I could project
Speaker 1: him towards like one hundred targets.
Speaker 2: He's a solid player, yea and uh, and you know
Speaker 2: we'll do all those little dirty work things and it
Speaker 2: can run routs and things but he's maybe a little
Speaker 2: bit more what's the word detailed than Kendrick Bourne, like
Speaker 2: he's got it. Yeah, Kendrick Bourne has these mental lapses
Speaker 2: where he forgets the route or runs it at the
Speaker 2: wrong depth, and he's talked about his openly, so I'm
Speaker 2: not saying anything about then that he hasn't said himself.
Speaker 2: But Keine strikes me as a guy that's a little
Speaker 2: bit more locked in. But his skill set is a
Speaker 2: little bit redundant or similar to Kendrick Borne. He's bigger
Speaker 2: two six fifteen, so I just wonder a little bit
Speaker 2: about that, But I do I do like him as
Speaker 2: a player in terms of that sort of tier that's
Speaker 2: sort of what you're looking for in free agency. And
Speaker 2: you know, I wanted to talk a little bit about
Speaker 2: the Commanders today just because of what's going on with
Speaker 2: Jayden Daniels and that in the run that they're on
Speaker 2: right now. So much of my takeaway from this Commander's
Speaker 2: run is that they've done such a great job Adam
Speaker 2: Peters did of just getting the floor of the team
Speaker 2: to be higher going into the season, so that if
Speaker 2: Jaden Daniels was a stud, which he is, that he
Speaker 2: could elevate the roster the rest of the way right
Speaker 2: to get them into the NFC Championship Game or at
Speaker 2: least the playoffs. I don't think they ever thought they
Speaker 2: were gonna be in the NFC Championship game, but they
Speaker 2: like Westbrook in Kinneck, I think fits this mold, which
Speaker 2: is why I segue to it. They signed like Bobby
Speaker 2: Wagner and Wiley right, Taxers, Uh Beadish on the interior
Speaker 2: offensive line, Zach Ertz, Frank Jeremy Chin. Yeah, like all
Speaker 2: these guys that aren't household superstar type players, but they're
Speaker 2: all NFL starters. And that just took the whole the
Speaker 2: whole level of the of the roster just went up
Speaker 2: a notch because they just had this floor that was
Speaker 2: more stable. It's not all that different than what the
Speaker 2: Patriots did in twenty twenty one, right where they kind
Speaker 2: of spread the money around. They've made one splash with judaon,
Speaker 2: but for the most part that they were just kind
Speaker 2: of getting solid, capable, reliable, steady, veteran presence on the
Speaker 2: roster and then you just hope that the draft and
Speaker 2: the quarterback is what knocks it out at me. This
Speaker 2: is what happened in watch.
Speaker 1: This is what I remember giving this take last year
Speaker 1: when we were doing the draft and developed stuff. It's like,
Speaker 1: that's all good in Green Bay when you have a
Speaker 1: foundation bill, but there's no foundation here. It was like,
Speaker 1: you don't have to do freegency every year. I get it.
Speaker 1: The Packers never do freegency, right, Elliott Wolf that's not
Speaker 1: his background. And look he's not the one calling the
Speaker 1: shots anymore.
Speaker 2: But yeah, just one.
Speaker 1: Year, do free agency. One year build that floor that
Speaker 1: you don't have that you had in Green Bay. That's
Speaker 1: what I was. That's what I want him to do
Speaker 1: last year, and they never did it, so hopefully they
Speaker 1: do it this year. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then you know, really where you get your ceiling
Speaker 2: is in the draft, right, So they get Jayden Daniels,
Speaker 2: which is the obvious one, but they also get Sandri Still.
Speaker 2: They also get Brandon Coleman at left tackle. They also
Speaker 2: get Luke McCaffrey, who's been like a nice, you know,
Speaker 2: complimentary piece for them, like you get all you know,
Speaker 2: Eckler is another one of those veteran guys that they
Speaker 2: added at running back. You know, like you get all
Speaker 2: those guys in the building to make your team better
Speaker 2: in the short term and have that floor rise to
Speaker 2: a different level. And then if you draft well and
Speaker 2: you stack that on top of that roster of the
Speaker 2: veteran guys, now all of a sudden, you have a ceiling,
Speaker 2: right that's a little bit higher than what you thought.
Speaker 2: The Patriots are that exact same position. If they can
Speaker 2: sign six, eight, ten of those types of veteran free
Speaker 2: agents to increase the floor of the team and then
Speaker 2: have another really strong draft. Oh, I say another, have
Speaker 2: a strong draft, well.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty three, you're talking about twenty three.
Speaker 2: But just have a good draft. Yeah, and you stack
Speaker 2: that on top of it. Now we're cooking with gas
Speaker 2: like that. You're building something here, and that's that's my
Speaker 2: hope for the Patriots and free agency. I'm not saying
Speaker 2: you can't go out and sign t Higgins if you
Speaker 2: want to.
Speaker 1: Or you probably can't going back to Cincinnati, yeah.
Speaker 2: Or you know, Josh Sweat, who's gonna get a top
Speaker 2: of the market deal.
Speaker 1: Josh, what makes a lot of sense for them.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying you can't do that.
Speaker 1: Well, you said compare twenty twenty one. They got chewed on, right,
Speaker 1: You get that one guy, right.
Speaker 2: The comparison you're just because the head coach is going
Speaker 2: to be a lot to two thousand and one where
Speaker 2: they sign Rabel Anthony Pleasant, Roman Feifer, like they.
Speaker 1: Sign like Antoine Smith.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, there's like ten of those guys. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, like those types of players. Obviously, the modern
Speaker 2: comparison is what Washington's doing right now. This is from
Speaker 2: Phil in North Carolina, who's a big Drake May fan.
Speaker 2: So I assume that's why he is now a Patriots guy.
Speaker 2: So we appreciate. I like those types of people. I
Speaker 2: appreciated Phil. He said that he is not a huge
Speaker 2: fan of the Josh McDaniels. I wanted to get some
Speaker 2: different thoughts and I didn't want it to be all
Speaker 2: sunshine and rainbows. He's not a fan of Josh McDaniels,
Speaker 2: and he wants us to list four pros about Josh
Speaker 2: McDaniels without saying that he's not a flight risk for
Speaker 2: a head coaching job. I can I can do this.
Speaker 2: That was the first half hour to show, Yeah, like
Speaker 2: this is what I don't understand. Like I didn't even
Speaker 2: mention that he wasn't a flight risk. I think that
Speaker 2: his he's got a system, which I love. Yeah, he's
Speaker 2: a known developer quarterback developer, which I like. Uh. He's
Speaker 2: very good at game planning and he's been in that
Speaker 2: and no shoes an in game play calling game planning. Uh,
Speaker 2: and I love his run game and play action passing.
Speaker 2: That's fo I can keep going.
Speaker 1: He let me see if I can do four different ones.
Speaker 1: He has a good track record. It's limited, but in
Speaker 1: the times he's done it, it's been good. Yeah, of
Speaker 1: molding what he's calling, what he's designing around the talent
Speaker 1: rather than trying to force the talent what he wants
Speaker 1: to do. You talk about the quarterback development, he and
Speaker 1: his system have a good track record of developing offensive lineman,
Speaker 1: so I'll piggyback on that. I much prefer the situational
Speaker 1: running back distribution versus just doing it by drive or
Speaker 1: by stamina. And now we're getting on eight here, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to remember what you.
Speaker 2: Said while you're thinking, there's one other.
Speaker 1: The advisor's a good look, a timeless look.
Speaker 2: The one another thing that I just want to push
Speaker 2: back a little bit on the whole. Like he calls
Speaker 2: a lot of third down screens, So I look this up.
Speaker 2: We are getting all hot and bothered about fifteen plays
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one they called it fifteen screens on
Speaker 2: third down and twenty twenty one, So my fifteen that's
Speaker 2: like two percent of the entire entirety of the plays
Speaker 2: that they called, right if they called a thousand offensive plays.
Speaker 2: I'm not very good at math, but I can tell
Speaker 2: you that that's like two percent.
Speaker 1: Right, we'll put it in five percent whatever? Right?
Speaker 2: That that that right there is We're getting all hot
Speaker 2: and bothered about something that they did two percent of
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 1: And I think the reason he did it again he
Speaker 1: does a good job of calling plays relative to the
Speaker 1: quarterback skill set, and I think that's just what he
Speaker 1: felt best about with Mac Jones on third and lungs.
Speaker 2: I nailed that right, right, one point five percent? Look
Speaker 2: at that?
Speaker 1: That was good for you. What would you rather do
Speaker 1: on that?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: Marine? I did that?
Speaker 1: What did you use Excel to figure out?
Speaker 2: It's called a calculator?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 2: I know? Have you heard of that?
Speaker 1: I have?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: What I trust me?
Speaker 2: I have the fact that I had to use a
Speaker 2: calculator to do that's kind of sad.
Speaker 1: I used calculator for sadder. What would you rather Mac
Speaker 1: Jones doing on third and one. Would you rather him
Speaker 1: throwing the ball, you know, deep in cuts or would
Speaker 1: you rather screen and try to let James White make
Speaker 1: a player whoever make a play?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So so the one, uh, the one can learn that.
Speaker 2: Phil also mentions here in this email, and this, to
Speaker 2: me is is fair, Like I don't necessarily think that
Speaker 2: I'm super concerned about it, but it's fair. Uh. Is
Speaker 2: just the fact that McDaniels did not have a great
Speaker 2: relationship with players in Vegas and that was a big
Speaker 2: part of why he did not work there and how
Speaker 2: that could or could deter free agents or trade you know,
Speaker 2: trade guys, guys they targeted in trades to want to
Speaker 2: play in this offense and to want to come here.
Speaker 2: We also got another email, DeVante DeVante Adams went on
Speaker 2: a It's it's related, so you can make your point.
Speaker 2: DeVante Adams went on a podcast at some point and
Speaker 2: said didn't say anything like totally uh scorched earth about McDaniels,
Speaker 2: but he just mentioned that it's like kind of a
Speaker 2: dink and dunk offense, right, Like they're kind of an
Speaker 2: efficient offense. They're trying to take chunks out of the
Speaker 2: defense instead of go for big plays and and chuck
Speaker 2: it deep and and you know, just that whole thing
Speaker 2: of McDaniels, his relationship with players, his style of offense,
Speaker 2: Like is that the most attractive destination?
Speaker 1: Now, well, I think it depends on the player. Look
Speaker 1: I and this is what I was gonna say, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the time in Vegas, like he's not the head coach here,
Speaker 1: and all the players that played from here loved them.
Speaker 1: You look at what you know, Kendrick Bourne last night
Speaker 1: reacting like that, so to me where he might make
Speaker 1: it a tough sell. And this is for any player,
Speaker 1: any coach anywhere in the league. Guys want to show up,
Speaker 1: especially when you're talking about those top free agents. Guys
Speaker 1: want to show up, and they won't have a role.
Speaker 1: If you're trying to recruit a you know, slot receiver.
Speaker 1: Josh McDaniel's gonna pull up all this film of Welker
Speaker 1: and Edelman and all these guys and say this is
Speaker 1: what we're gonna have you do. And that guy's probably
Speaker 1: gonna be pretty excited. Recruiting guy like t Higgins might
Speaker 1: be tougher. When's the last time Josh McDaniels had a
Speaker 1: guy like t Higgins, So maybe Devonte Adams, who, yeah,
Speaker 1: objectively is not a great fit in this offense. So
Speaker 1: I don't think like the Vegas stuff is gonna hurt
Speaker 1: him so much as what can he show players his
Speaker 1: offense can do for them, And that obviously comes down
Speaker 1: to the player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't necessarily think that it's this detriment
Speaker 2: in terms of the style of the offense, because as
Speaker 2: long as you have players that fit that style of
Speaker 2: the offense, we've seen how effective it can be.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So, Yeah, in mcdaniels's offense, you are not going to
Speaker 2: get bombs away, Like You're not going to be a
Speaker 2: team that's going to throw a bunch of deep passes.
Speaker 2: You're not going to get a lot of your plays.
Speaker 2: Your explosives are gonna come a lot because you're hitting
Speaker 2: a fifteen yard catch and run receiver down the field
Speaker 2: and he's getting to twenty plus because after the catch,
Speaker 2: you know, those are the types of plays that you're
Speaker 2: going to see a lot more from McDaniels than a
Speaker 2: downfield aerial passing attack. But if you have players that
Speaker 2: can catch and run, then what difference does it make?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: And I think that a guy like Kendrick Bourdon drives
Speaker 2: in this system because he is good with the ball
Speaker 2: in his hands and he is good after the catch.
Speaker 2: So as long as you build it, and this is
Speaker 2: you know, something that I didn't think that the last
Speaker 2: regime did a really great job of of, you know,
Speaker 2: identifying this is the type of offense that we want
Speaker 2: to run, this is the style that we want to play.
Speaker 2: What are the players that fit that style of offense?
Speaker 2: And I don't think that they did a great job
Speaker 2: of that in the draft. I thought that you know,
Speaker 2: draft and Caden Wallace and Layden Robinson were you know,
Speaker 2: bigger power guys, heavier guys that tackle, especially with Caiden
Speaker 2: Wallace that some people projected to move inside a guard
Speaker 2: to guard someday, Like that doesn't fit an outside zone scheme, right,
Speaker 2: like that, that's not an outside zone tackle. You know.
Speaker 2: Jalen Polk a guy that is you know, more of
Speaker 2: a possession slot Z type of receiver. When we know
Speaker 2: that they wanted to be you know, twelve personnel, heavy
Speaker 2: personnel with vertical shots off of play action and things
Speaker 2: like that. So how did that fit? You know, That's
Speaker 2: what you got to get back to. That's what the
Speaker 2: good teams do. They identify what they want to run,
Speaker 2: they identify the type of team they want to be schematically,
Speaker 2: and they get player fits and archetypes.
Speaker 1: For that skull belichickism, it's not about collecting talent, it's
Speaker 1: about building a team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they got to get back to that. This
Speaker 2: email is very simple. Subject line from l from Wisconsin.
Speaker 2: Evan is wrong. I am wrong about putting the protections
Speaker 2: on Drake May and Elle said that this will allow
Speaker 2: the offensive line in the quarterback to be on the
Speaker 2: same page and so that the you know, the quarterback,
Speaker 2: if he sees it differently than the center, then you
Speaker 2: have breakdowns and things like that. But like I would
Speaker 2: just say to that, you know, whoever makes the line calls,
Speaker 2: he has final say so, like he had, everybody's got
Speaker 2: to see it through his eyes, right, right, So whether
Speaker 2: it's the center, it's the quarterback, like, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2: If the center says, you know, we're pointed this way,
Speaker 2: then you're pointed that way, right, Like that's the way,
Speaker 2: that's the play. So it's on the quarterback to see
Speaker 2: it through the center's eyes and vice versa. I just
Speaker 2: look at it and I I Remember one thing that
Speaker 2: AVP said to us that I really thought was sound
Speaker 2: reasoning for it. Just think about how much is on
Speaker 2: the quarterback on any given play, right, the understanding, his
Speaker 2: play call, the row concept, the protection, the defense, you know,
Speaker 2: the coverage, the blitz threats, the pass protection, and where
Speaker 2: people threats are gonna come from if you're hot, where
Speaker 2: you're going with the football? Is it one high? Is
Speaker 2: it two high? As it man? Is its zone? Like
Speaker 2: all these different things that you have to think about,
Speaker 2: And now all of a sudden, we're going to add
Speaker 2: on to the plate, setting the mic and setting the
Speaker 2: protection and checking out of plays and all this different
Speaker 2: types of stuff. For a young quarterback, that's a lot.
Speaker 2: It wasn't a lot for Brady because he was Tom
Speaker 2: freaking Brady and he could do those types of things.
Speaker 2: For younger quarterbacks, that's tough. It's a lot of responsibility.
Speaker 2: I don't think that Josh McDaniels will throw him into
Speaker 2: the defense. I'm not super worried about it. Small sea concern,
Speaker 2: but that's where I'm coming.
Speaker 1: Ideally, they get their events, but we're talking years and
Speaker 1: years and years down road.
Speaker 2: Yep, exactly. All right, let's go back to the funks. Uh.
Speaker 2: Jay is in Atlanta. What's up? Jay?
Speaker 4: Hey guys, Thanks, we're taking a call here. Yep, all right.
Speaker 4: I just have a just two questions about the coordinators
Speaker 4: we have, because we have Tia Williams. What's the likelihood
Speaker 4: that he targets the one like you know, maybe Jared
Speaker 4: Ivy or Kyle Knard? And for Josh, what's the likelihood
Speaker 4: he targets on one like Junkins or maybe someone who
Speaker 4: like Nick Nash. I'll take it offline.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Jay. So Nick Nash is a good little
Speaker 2: segue here to some of the I haven't watched Nicknash,
Speaker 2: but he's unfortunately he's going to not unfortunately Trine boll
Speaker 2: is a great game, but he's going to the Shrine
Speaker 2: Bowl and.
Speaker 1: They have great receivers and tight ends in trying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's going to the Shrine Bowl. So I'm
Speaker 2: not going to see him. But we also got a
Speaker 2: question about what's the kid from Stanford Illumina.
Speaker 1: Or before we get him quick because he mentioned a
Speaker 1: couple of names there. Kyle Cannard, who I know you
Speaker 1: have watch, Yes, the pass rusher right from South Care.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna do you know, tackle or something else.
Speaker 1: At the top of the draft. Kyle Canard second round.
Speaker 1: Sign me up.
Speaker 2: He's a he's a speed rusher, like a like kind
Speaker 2: of like an New j type.
Speaker 1: I would say, I think he's a lot more violent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, good guy, he's a good player. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I am interested in the kid from Stanford. He's going
Speaker 2: to be a mobile.
Speaker 1: He he he got Travis Hunter good last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got he's got some good things about him. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of in that like Rams receiver mold right,
Speaker 2: like Cooper Cup. Oh, that's a great I can't wait
Speaker 2: to Seetrepo Rastreppo is the guy and mobile that I
Speaker 2: that I can't wait to see.
Speaker 1: Well, I'll say this on Nick Nash and look it
Speaker 1: was in the in the Mountain West. But you want
Speaker 1: to talk about a volume guy. I'm trying to find
Speaker 1: his targets last year. It's a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Donovan Jackson is the Ohio State guy, right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so a lot of people thought that he was gonna
Speaker 2: play guard in the league, but he's held up pretty
Speaker 2: well throughout there, running to the championship in the College
Speaker 2: Football Playoff playing tackle at Ohio State. I'm not rolling
Speaker 2: it out. I don't think it's an arm line issue
Speaker 2: with him. I think he's gonna have the arm line
Speaker 2: checked off. I think it's more of like a foot speed,
Speaker 2: you know, recovery talent, mirroring ability, like that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: It's also just like, once again, here's a guy that
Speaker 1: you're drafting to teach to play left tackle. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not like he was a tackle who moved inside of
Speaker 1: guard and moved back at He's a guardist whole career.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna take a tackle in that spot, can
Speaker 1: you just take a tackle? Can you just take a
Speaker 1: left tackle who knows how to play left tackle and
Speaker 1: you don't have to start for you know, tackle one
Speaker 1: oh one in the spring and we can just get
Speaker 1: going with you know, whether it's Connery Ursery, even a
Speaker 1: kid from North Carolina State, Belton Benton, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: Why why does the left tackle have to be somebody
Speaker 1: that has well he's heard or it's not really his
Speaker 1: position or this, like, why can't they just draft a
Speaker 1: true left tackle. I don't understand why there's so much
Speaker 1: opposition to that. We're getting too cute with.
Speaker 2: It, like, well, there's no opposition to it for me,
Speaker 2: but I think that the reason why people are against
Speaker 2: it is because if you say, oh, we're just gonna
Speaker 2: turn this guy into a left tackle, then you can
Speaker 2: draft him later. And no one wants to just have
Speaker 2: their socks for Christmas. But when we're talking about this
Speaker 2: solid time, we're.
Speaker 1: Donovan Jackson's gonna go, you're not doing that. Dunovan Jackson
Speaker 1: gonna be top fifty pick because.
Speaker 2: He's still gonna go in the second round. So you
Speaker 2: can use you can use four on tech, Wanta, vegetables.
Speaker 1: And less un less because he's a first round guard.
Speaker 1: He's a really good guard. What if one of those
Speaker 1: teams there at the end the first round that needs
Speaker 1: a guard drafts him as a guard, but even still
Speaker 1: he's gonna go in the second round. I think we're
Speaker 1: on the same page here. I thought we were kind
Speaker 1: of coming at it like if you're gonna take a
Speaker 1: tackle there, take Connorly, take Ursery, and maybe they're not
Speaker 1: there there, but like what.
Speaker 2: But this is the bottom line is is that all
Speaker 2: these names, and I'm not saying that they're not all
Speaker 2: that they're none of them are good football players. But Connorly, Ursery,
Speaker 2: Josh Simmons, you know if he falls, because that's another one. Uh,
Speaker 2: Donovan Jackson. All of these names are getting brought up
Speaker 2: because people just don't want to eat their vegetables. They
Speaker 2: don't want socks for Christmas. They don't want the Patriots
Speaker 2: taking a tackle. What they're first picking the draft.
Speaker 1: That because they want somebody they can draft in fantasy
Speaker 1: and they can buy the jersey. I get that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you're like, I'm okay with Connory.
Speaker 2: I'm okay with yeah.
Speaker 1: Like that's if you're telling me, you know, Abdole Carter
Speaker 1: the top of the draft. Fine, but if it, don't
Speaker 1: just throw a random name out there to make it work. Right,
Speaker 1: If you're gonna take a left tackle, they've been half
Speaker 1: asking this for too long. They you need a real
Speaker 1: left tackle the day one. You know you're not gonna
Speaker 1: have to work through transitioning him and teaching him the position. Yes,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be the adjustments in the NFL. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying those guys are perfect, but Donovan Jackson could be
Speaker 1: a great developmental tackle. Even he could even be Josh Connery.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I hear you. I We're in agreement on this.
Speaker 2: I understand that drafting and maybe a pass rusher is
Speaker 2: a little bit more sexy than drafting a tackle. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I understand in theory that drafting a tackle, drafting
Speaker 2: a defensive lineman like the trenches. Addressing the trenches is
Speaker 2: not sexy. It's exciting they have It's not fun, but
Speaker 2: it's what they have to do. And the one thing
Speaker 2: that Rabel has hammered home since day once it is
Speaker 2: then introductory press conference, is we need to protect the
Speaker 2: quarterback and we need to affect the other team's quarterback.
Speaker 2: That's almost a direct quote from what he said at
Speaker 2: his introductory press conference. Somebody then asked him, you know,
Speaker 2: what is the one thing that you kind of look
Speaker 2: at with this roster that you want to fix immediately
Speaker 2: off the bat? That's the most important offensive line was
Speaker 2: his number one thing. So he sees it, and I
Speaker 2: understand that there's different ways to go about this. If
Speaker 2: this was was it twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the Jamar Chase Penny Sewell draft twenty one. If this
Speaker 2: was that draft where you're truly picking between two elite,
Speaker 2: elite prospects in Penny Stool and Jamar Chase, there's really
Speaker 2: no wrong answer in a draft like that, right like,
Speaker 2: it worked out for both sides. The Bengals got a
Speaker 2: stud receiver to pair with Joe Burrow. The Lions got
Speaker 2: the best tackle in football. It worked out for both sides.
Speaker 2: They probably the best players at their respective positions in
Speaker 2: the entire NFL. That's very rare. That was a once
Speaker 2: in a draft, right like. That's not gonna happen more
Speaker 2: times than not. So if you get into this position
Speaker 2: in the draft with the Patriots, it's not Penny Stool
Speaker 2: versus Jamar Chase. When we're talking about Kelvin Banks and
Speaker 2: Ted McMillan. Neither one of those guys are in that
Speaker 2: category as prospects. So you gotta think about it like that.
Speaker 2: You gotta recognize that it's not one of those situations.
Speaker 2: And I go back to last year with the Giants.
Speaker 2: You take Malik Neighbors, awesome rookie year, stud player, no
Speaker 2: doubt about it. Everybody sits there and says, one hundred
Speaker 2: percent of this guy has a stud. Where did it
Speaker 2: get the Giants?
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Joe All, even playing out of position, had a
Speaker 1: hell of a year for the Chargers. Yeah, damn good
Speaker 1: player for the Charger.
Speaker 2: Really good player. All right, let's uh, there's one other
Speaker 2: email here I wanted to to get to. Oh. Here
Speaker 2: it is from about Wes Welker. So you know the emailer,
Speaker 2: this is Sam from Saint Catherine's just asked, you know
Speaker 2: what makes it what makes Wes Welker any different from
Speaker 2: Troy Brown. You know, Wes Welker just got fired by
Speaker 2: the Miami Dolphins as their wide receivers coach. Is he
Speaker 2: just another Troy Brown reducts the guy that we just
Speaker 2: like because he's a former player. Here, I would say
Speaker 2: that he's pretty different from Troy Brown, mainly because he
Speaker 2: went outside the circle of trust and he went to
Speaker 2: San Francisco, he went with Mike McDaniel to Miami. He's
Speaker 2: been in different systems, he's coached in different places under
Speaker 2: different offensive minded head coaches. So I think that he's
Speaker 2: got a more well rounded sort of experience and resume.
Speaker 2: That would make me a little bit more excited. And
Speaker 2: I think he's had his groups have had some more success. Now,
Speaker 2: maybe he's had more talent. You could definitely make that argument,
Speaker 2: but I just look at his experience with the Shanahan Tree,
Speaker 2: with Shanahan himself and with Mike McDaniel. You know, Trey
Speaker 2: Brown never did that. He never went outside the nest.
Speaker 1: And I also think, look, I've never been in a
Speaker 1: meeting room with either of them, but some guy like
Speaker 1: there's no correlation between how good of a player you
Speaker 1: are and how good of a coach you are. There's
Speaker 1: some guys that were not good players that are great coaches,
Speaker 1: and there's some Honestly, sometimes the great players can't coach
Speaker 1: because there's things that come naturally to them that you know,
Speaker 1: they don't know how to teach because it comes naturally them.
Speaker 1: So everybody's a different level of teacher, which is at
Speaker 1: the end of the day with this is and I've
Speaker 1: never been in a room with them, but you look
Speaker 1: at the way Wes Welker's guys have developed, you look
Speaker 1: at the lack of development they had here, and I
Speaker 1: kind of feel like maybe Wes Welker's just personality wise,
Speaker 1: whatever he's doing to get that message across, he might
Speaker 1: just be a better teacher.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I just lost it. There's another email
Speaker 2: in here about, oh, some of the the staffers that
Speaker 2: from last year, any of those guys sticking on, you know,
Speaker 2: DeMarcus Covington Alex Van Peltissa McCartney, Brian Belichick, Mike Pellegrino.
Speaker 2: So I'll say this about Van Pelt. I don't have
Speaker 2: any I don't know if he's coming there, going quite yet.
Speaker 2: There's some stuff on Twitter. I don't know if that's true.
Speaker 2: But your crossing languages right, like, and I understand that.
Speaker 2: We're all we're impressed by the job that Van Pelt
Speaker 2: did with Drake May and with Joe Milton.
Speaker 1: He deserves credit for it.
Speaker 2: He deserves credit for it, no doubt. If Drake May
Speaker 2: goes on in five years and he's Josh Allen, we're
Speaker 2: gonna say avp did a good job as rookie year.
Speaker 2: He deserves credit for getting it started. He's Mark Jackson
Speaker 2: to Steve Kerr. Sorry, but if first of all, it's
Speaker 2: like your crossing languages, right, We're still football, but we're
Speaker 2: like talking like, you know, French and Spanish here with
Speaker 2: the offensive languages. So how does that work out? How
Speaker 2: does his terminology, his fundamentals left foot forward like all
Speaker 2: that stuff? How does that fit in Josh mcdaniels's system.
Speaker 2: The second thing, you don't hire Josh McDaniels to have
Speaker 2: somebody else run the quarterback. Josh McDaniels is coaching the quarterback.
Speaker 2: It's his show. He's head coach offense. He's going to
Speaker 2: run the quarterback. He's going to have the quarterbacks the year.
Speaker 2: He's going to be attached to Drake May's hip. And
Speaker 2: that's how it should go because he's the play caller, just
Speaker 2: like AVP was last year. You want the play caller
Speaker 2: to be the one that's running the quarterback. You don't
Speaker 2: want it to be somebody else. And as much as
Speaker 2: I give AVP a ton of credit for what he did,
Speaker 2: I just think that there's no real connection there. Like
Speaker 2: you're just crossing streams. It's not gonna make sense. I
Speaker 2: don't think that that's a great way to go. Nothing
Speaker 2: against either guy, I just don't think that's a great
Speaker 2: way to go. The one name on this list that
Speaker 2: I feel that I would really like to keep it,
Speaker 2: I think you agree is Pelgrino. Yep, you know. I
Speaker 2: think that he is a really good cornerbacks coach, has
Speaker 2: been a really good cornerbacks coach if they even wanted
Speaker 2: to promote him to like pass game coordinator is now popular.
Speaker 2: On the other side of the ball, you have a
Speaker 2: run game coordinator, pass game coordinator, defensive coordinator. Just like
Speaker 2: on the offensive side or even secondary coach, where you're
Speaker 2: coaching the whole room, you're coaching safeties and corners, you
Speaker 2: could do that as well. I would definitely try to
Speaker 2: keep pel Greener around.
Speaker 1: I would too.
Speaker 2: Is any of those other guys you know McCarty.
Speaker 1: I mean you figure McCartney goes with Van pell Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know Covington, what's his role. He's not gonna take
Speaker 1: it the motion, so yeah, probably not. It's just just
Speaker 1: just Pelgrian and Brian Belichick. If he's around two, I
Speaker 1: think he's done a good job. I'd keep him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: okay if you can.
Speaker 2: Safety room had a tough time last year, but a
Speaker 2: lot of that was decimated by injuries, injuries, off field stuff,
Speaker 2: like not a ton of it was was necessarily in
Speaker 2: his control. All right, Jesse is in the car. What's up, Jesse? Jesse?
Speaker 1: What's up?
Speaker 2: Going once? All right? Call us back, get you back
Speaker 2: on there Herejzeus is in Denver? What's up? Hezeus?
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 6: I know it's gonna sound like a dumb question, but
Speaker 6: no dumb questions. Josh McDaniels, like totally hate Drake Main
Speaker 6: and switch his quarterback because he does have a track
Speaker 6: record of doing that.
Speaker 2: Zero point zero, I would ask, and there's no dumb questions.
Speaker 2: And I don't mean to like say that like it
Speaker 2: was a dumb question, but zero point zero, Drake May
Speaker 2: is the quarterback here. He's the future of the franchise here.
Speaker 2: Josh McDaniels, I'm sure is giddy about working with Drake
Speaker 2: kay Uh And I would be if I was. If
Speaker 2: I was him, I mean that that guy's a ball
Speaker 2: of clay. Like that's a lot of fun. Like I
Speaker 2: said earlier with the Cheesecake Factory analogy, you can call anything.
Speaker 2: You can call RPO, you can call quarterback run, you
Speaker 2: can move the pocket, you can drop back pass, you
Speaker 2: can play action pass, you can gun action like, you
Speaker 2: can literally do anything. You can do anything at your
Speaker 2: disposal with Dre May. That's gotta be music to Josh
Speaker 2: mcdaniels's ears. I think that would be really exciting. We
Speaker 2: had another email from a long long time listener Alex
Speaker 2: because this person I'm trying to find it has been
Speaker 2: listening for so long that he remembers something that I
Speaker 2: said on a Clintons podcast in twenty twenty two, twenty
Speaker 2: twenty about the Cam Newton offense. So we're going back aways,
Speaker 2: he said, and that he's been listening for a long
Speaker 2: time to us. So he said, I remember listening to
Speaker 2: Evan back in twenty twenty saying that the McDaniels offense
Speaker 2: with Cam seemed a little disjointed, like he tried to
Speaker 2: attach his traditional drop back passing game. I'll au Brady
Speaker 2: to specialized quarterback run package. Was that an issue with
Speaker 2: McDaniels or because of you know, Cam's limitations, COVID all
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. It's a really good question, Andrew
Speaker 2: from Lincoln, who I know you're an avid listener. We
Speaker 2: really do appreciate that because twenty twenty you're going.
Speaker 1: Back way back. In fact, you were listening that closely
Speaker 1: during that season with everything that was going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, awesome, I love it. In terms of the question,
Speaker 2: it's a good question, and there is an element of
Speaker 2: that that you're basically taking this option package that exists,
Speaker 2: you know, because of the type of quarterback that you have,
Speaker 2: and now you're going to try to marry it and
Speaker 2: pair it with a more traditional approach of even under
Speaker 2: center or drop back pass or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2: I would at least be cautiously optimistic at the time
Speaker 2: right now that it will work because Drake made is
Speaker 2: such a better passer than Cam Newton was in twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: and I think he's going to be fully capable and
Speaker 2: operational running a traditional drop back passing game like Josh
Speaker 2: McDaniel's runs. So I'm a little bit more optimistic because
Speaker 2: of that. But if it does, the one thing that
Speaker 2: you could see concerned about, I suppose, is that they
Speaker 2: kind of get stuck in between, right do they want
Speaker 2: to be this Cliff Kingsbury, Jid and Daniels option offense
Speaker 2: or do they want to be the Brady offense? And
Speaker 2: you gotta get content in between a little.
Speaker 1: The one other thing I'd say to remember about the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty season being disjointed, not only did they not
Speaker 1: have a spring, Cam Newton didn't sign here until July eight, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they didn't have a ton of time to put
Speaker 1: stuff together.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just that whole thing felt like it was kind
Speaker 1: of thrown together the last minute because it was essentially
Speaker 1: what it was. So, you know, we referenced to Cam
Speaker 1: Newton offense, but the idea is now you have more
Speaker 1: time that's gonna be put into it. There was gonna
Speaker 1: have more time to work on it. They didn't have
Speaker 1: a spring that year. They abbreviated training camp because of COVID.
Speaker 1: We're just kind of using that as a reference point
Speaker 1: more than like, this is what they should do.
Speaker 2: It's fun. It's an interesting way to look at it
Speaker 2: in terms of combining sort of two very different philosophies
Speaker 2: into one. And I think what is so intriguing about
Speaker 2: it is that because McDaniels is a really good game
Speaker 2: planner and very versatile and very you know, fluid in
Speaker 2: terms of his approach, like it doesn't have to always
Speaker 2: be every single week, we're gonna run a bunch of
Speaker 2: our right, like, you know, some weeks, maybe they're playing
Speaker 2: a team that they just feel like they have an
Speaker 2: advantage there that they can do that sort of thing,
Speaker 2: and then they can also play the other way if
Speaker 2: they have to. Ultimately, at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: with any offense who drop backs past the best wins
Speaker 2: the Super Bowl every single year. It's just you know,
Speaker 2: we go back. We always argue about the forty nine
Speaker 2: Ers Super Bowl. A couple of years ago at Jimmy
Speaker 2: Garoppolo against the Chiefs. What happened. They got into the
Speaker 2: fourth quarter. One team could drop back pass at a
Speaker 2: high level. The other team couldn't.
Speaker 1: The team was still drop back passing.
Speaker 2: Yea, And that decided the Super Bowl. It decides the
Speaker 2: Super Bowl every single year when all the bells and
Speaker 2: whistles are gone, when the scheme and the play actions
Speaker 2: and the motions and all that kind of stuff. When
Speaker 2: all that fades away and it's the fourth quarter, you
Speaker 2: four minutes to go and you're down three points, can
Speaker 2: you matriculate down the field?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Can you find that? And that That's where the Patriots
Speaker 2: need to get to. That's why, as much as I
Speaker 2: didn't mean to to totally scoff at you with your
Speaker 2: Joe Milton package, like, that's why that's so important to
Speaker 2: me because if you just look across the board, you know,
Speaker 2: passer rating, differential drop BACKDPA like all those types of things,
Speaker 2: the teams that are at the top of those lists
Speaker 2: every single year, the teams that win. It's really that's
Speaker 2: the league. So I'm excited to see what McDaniels does
Speaker 2: with Drake may in that respect, because I think that
Speaker 2: he's really good, those types of things. Before we wrap
Speaker 2: it up, I do want to talk a little bit
Speaker 2: about next week going to the Senior Bowl. We do
Speaker 2: have a little bit of AFC East breaking news that
Speaker 2: I wanted to touch on to. So just now coming
Speaker 2: across from Adam Schefter and Ian Rapaport, Aaron Glenn has
Speaker 2: been named the head coach of the New York Jets.
Speaker 1: OK.
Speaker 2: So he is going to be the Jets head coach.
Speaker 2: So we now have the AFC East carousel is over.
Speaker 2: The Jets hire Aaron Glenn, the Patriots hire Mike Rabel. Obviously,
Speaker 2: McDaniel and Sean McDermott are still in their respective homes
Speaker 2: in Miami and Buffalo. So just a quick reaction on
Speaker 2: Aaron Glenn in the division.
Speaker 1: He had a hell of a year. It was one
Speaker 1: year he'd a hell of a year. Is he that
Speaker 1: different than Robert Sala Philosophically? I still think the Jets
Speaker 1: kind of stepped in it firing solid. He was not
Speaker 1: the issue. But we'll see, what do We got three
Speaker 1: defensive coaches in the division now, and you know, the
Speaker 1: one offensive coach should probably be on his way out soon.
Speaker 2: It's interesting, nice, it's interesting.
Speaker 1: Should he not be. I mean, I'm sorry. The team
Speaker 1: can't beat they don't beat good teams, and that's not
Speaker 1: older like statistically, look at their record against teams over
Speaker 1: five hundred. I don't see how you stick with him
Speaker 1: that much longer. It's organizational malpractice.
Speaker 2: So it's interesting because the Jets, usually I mentioned at
Speaker 2: the top of the show, usually flop, right, you go
Speaker 2: from a defensive guy to an offensive guy, or a
Speaker 2: culture guy to a hard ass or whatever the case may.
Speaker 1: I guess they did go non former player to former player, but.
Speaker 2: The Jets literally just hired the same guy out. They
Speaker 2: run a different, much different scheme. Aaron Glenn in Detroit
Speaker 2: is a man blitzer, Like he comes after quarterbacks with
Speaker 2: the blitz. He plays man to man coverage.
Speaker 1: In terms of that, you could not be more pressures
Speaker 1: on for Sauce Gardner.
Speaker 2: You cannot be more polar opposite in terms of that.
Speaker 2: But what I think is funny about it is is
Speaker 2: that there's zero point zero percent of a chance that
Speaker 2: Woody Johnson has any idea what I'm talking about right, Like,
Speaker 2: there's there's no way that Woody Johnson is hiring a
Speaker 2: coach and being like so what's your scheme, what's your philosophy?
Speaker 2: He looks on madd but no way. So that guy
Speaker 2: has no clue. So basically what we're we're getting at
Speaker 2: here is that once again the Jets are hiring a
Speaker 2: culture building, defensive coach, which there's what they've done for
Speaker 2: one hundred years, like Rex, Ryan, Robert Sala like, go
Speaker 2: right on down the line, heavy.
Speaker 1: It was the culture builder, Eric Mangini, man Genie like.
Speaker 2: Who who was in between Rex and Sala because obviously
Speaker 2: there was somebody.
Speaker 1: No, oh no, that was different. They tried an offensive
Speaker 1: coach and they hired Adam Gase, which might be the
Speaker 1: worst off for all.
Speaker 2: I maybe that's what's squared them off from the offensive guys.
Speaker 1: You know what, Adam, I would not blame them for that,
Speaker 1: for how bad of a coach he was. Do you
Speaker 1: think there's a chance offensive coaches didn't want to go
Speaker 1: there because they didn't want to work with Rogers.
Speaker 2: It's possible. I just like I said, you usually see
Speaker 2: teams flip flop philosophy, and I'm surprised. I'm surprised that
Speaker 2: the Jets looked at their situation and said, you know what,
Speaker 2: we need a defensive coordinator.
Speaker 1: Also, what is now five coaches in the NFL or
Speaker 1: coaching teams they played for Rabel, Glenn, Campbell, Ryan's and
Speaker 1: there's one more. Who am I missing.
Speaker 3: There is?
Speaker 1: I think, oh Harbaugh?
Speaker 2: Harbor so quickly on the Jets they went from.
Speaker 1: Start at Belichick, start at Belichick and go from there.
Speaker 1: Let's do the last twenty five years.
Speaker 2: So they went from parcels up defensive guy to Belichick
Speaker 2: for like a week, Belichick for a week. Is this
Speaker 2: al grow? Yeah? So Algro coach one season Herm Edwards,
Speaker 2: who I believe is offensive guy, right, I wanted to say,
Speaker 2: uh no, Herm Edwards coach defensive backs and then was
Speaker 2: a defensive Yeah.
Speaker 1: Guys like when I started watching football.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, Herm Edwards was a defensive guy. Eric Man
Speaker 2: genius defensive guy. Of course Notorious was the defensive guy
Speaker 2: by the way too, Rex Ryan defensive Todd Bowles defensive
Speaker 2: forgot they had Todd Bowles, two years of Adam Gase,
Speaker 2: Robert Sala and now Aaron Glenn. So really from for
Speaker 2: our like football watching lifetime, which I I start with
Speaker 2: like the late nineties, I think both in the same
Speaker 2: category with Bill Parcells with the Jets our football lifetime.
Speaker 2: The Jets have had a defensive minded head coach for
Speaker 2: all but two seasons.
Speaker 1: And you could argue those two seasons that offensive coach
Speaker 1: didn't really no offense either.
Speaker 2: So to say that they have a type as an understatement,
Speaker 2: they certainly have a type. And that's interesting.
Speaker 1: I Aaron Peek Carroll coached the Jets.
Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, he did coach the Jets for a year. Yeah.
Speaker 2: They AARONN.
Speaker 1: Holt.
Speaker 2: I'm not like crazy about Aaron Glenn. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2: I understand that he has some some good traits as
Speaker 2: like a culture builder, intense guy, like gets good players
Speaker 2: to play for him. All like that game plan against
Speaker 2: the Commanders when anybody Paul, let's blitz him again, let's
Speaker 2: play Manton mannon. We'll blitz Jaden Daniels another time. Like,
Speaker 2: come on, like, you gotta do something different. Even Brady
Speaker 2: of all people called it out at halftime, mister like,
Speaker 2: I don't say anything to ruffle anybody's feathers. Yeah said
Speaker 2: at halftime, maybe mix in some zone. Aaron Glenn never did.
Speaker 1: Look, I think there's some upside with Aaron Glenn just
Speaker 1: in general as a coach that's a terrible fit for
Speaker 1: him and for the team. It's a bad fit and
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate for him because you only get so many chances,
Speaker 1: especially for your defensive coach.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see what it does with Aaron Rodgers and
Speaker 2: that whole situation. Like, if Aaron Rodgers is gonna be back,
Speaker 2: if the Jets are now quarterback team, who he hires
Speaker 2: his offensive coordinator? I'm sure he has something to be right. Well,
Speaker 2: I think Instan's are going to replace Ben Johnson, so
Speaker 2: I think that he's already earmarked by Dan Campbell as
Speaker 2: their replacement. So maybe it's like a Mark Brunell or
Speaker 2: someone else from that that tree. We'll see, But it's
Speaker 2: it's an interesting hire. It's so Jets, like, is this
Speaker 2: any different than Todd Bowles or Roberts.
Speaker 1: It's it's very Jets. Well he played, It's the one
Speaker 1: difference is he played? Yeah, that's that's what you're banking on.
Speaker 1: I guess, all right, Jets real quick on that. Would
Speaker 1: you think of Liam Cohen turning down the Jags? Good
Speaker 1: for him?
Speaker 2: I thought it was good for him. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's a horrible situation necessarily because you do have Trevor
Speaker 2: and you do have some talent on that roster, but
Speaker 2: I just don't think he's ready. And I think that
Speaker 2: there should, This should be more normal and more accepted
Speaker 2: that Ben Johnson did it now it went the other
Speaker 2: way for Bobby Slowick. He did and it blew up
Speaker 2: in his face. But you look at Liam Cohen. He's
Speaker 2: bounced around from college to pro's college, to pro's college
Speaker 2: to pros. He needs some experience at the NFL. He
Speaker 2: needs to not just coordinating, but yeah, leading a room,
Speaker 2: leading a building, understanding head coach responsibilities. Good for him,
Speaker 2: It will come for him eventually, just because he's such
Speaker 2: a great offensive mind, like he'll figure it out eventually.
Speaker 1: I'm with you. The league's gotten so far ahead in
Speaker 1: the offense, especially the offensid of the hiring process. You'll
Speaker 1: see quarterbacks coaches interviewing for head coaching jobs and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. It needs to slow down for the betterman
Speaker 1: of the league, for the betterment of these coaches. The
Speaker 1: reason the league is a coaching problem right now, and
Speaker 1: that's part of it. I didn't think it would be
Speaker 1: the coaches taking the lead and slowing it down. I
Speaker 1: thought it would be the lead. But like you said,
Speaker 1: Ben Johnson, Bobby Slowick, now Liam Cohen, good for them
Speaker 1: for waiting for the right opportunity.
Speaker 2: I could be totally wrong about Ben Johnson, you know,
Speaker 2: he's my guy. I could be totally wrong. He could
Speaker 2: stink in Chicago, Okay, but I give him a lot
Speaker 2: of credit for holding his wire waiting, and my guess,
Speaker 2: my gut says that it's going to pay huge dividends
Speaker 2: for him. I think he's going to be a much
Speaker 2: much better HEADCA It can't hurt than it would have
Speaker 2: been two years ago because he waited.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it can't hurt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always good. Jeff is in Maine. What's up, Jeff?
Speaker 4: Hey, what's going on?
Speaker 1: Guys? Hey?
Speaker 4: Hey, so, uh, it's been busy the last few weeks,
Speaker 4: so I'm not able to call in, but I wanted
Speaker 4: to give you an update on the Manhattan Project.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we won. Boy, let's go all right, let's go.
Speaker 3: To win.
Speaker 4: That's literally all.
Speaker 1: I have, you know, fantasy the only Fantasy football update.
Speaker 2: Can it be the Manhattan Project after Week eighteen? Like
Speaker 2: it's out of the bag.
Speaker 1: Now, right, I Mean it's like nickname, I know, but
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, everybody knows, all right.
Speaker 2: I wanted to wrap it with a little senior bolltalk.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to Mobile next week for the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 2: I'm excited. Obviously the prospects will be there. I'm also interested,
Speaker 2: and I'll definitely report back on the show next week.
Speaker 2: Who from the Patriots is gonna be there. I think
Speaker 2: the head coach is gonna be there. We'll see if
Speaker 2: the coordinators are with him. It'd be interesting.
Speaker 1: You know, McDaniels used to go.
Speaker 2: I think he did towards the end when the Bill
Speaker 2: was supposed to be opening his world to him, remember
Speaker 2: that whole period of time. I think he did towards
Speaker 2: the end. As a defensive minded guy in Vrabel, you
Speaker 2: would think he would want that offensive coordinator with him
Speaker 2: to kind of give some input. You know, last year
Speaker 2: AVP and Ben McAdoo and those guys all went to
Speaker 2: Pro Day's and stuff like that to kind of be
Speaker 2: that offensive, you know, focus on that side when they
Speaker 2: were watching the quarterbacks. So I wouldn't be surprised if
Speaker 2: McDaniel's there. I'm sure Ryan Cowden will be there, Stretch
Speaker 2: will definitely be there. All the guys will be there.
Speaker 2: So that'd be cool from that perspective, but also just
Speaker 2: from a prospect perspective, really good again by Jim Nagy,
Speaker 2: you know, does a great job putting together the Senior
Speaker 2: Bowl roster. And what's great about it is is that
Speaker 2: we all know the guys at the top of the draft,
Speaker 2: right we all know Abdul Carter, Kelvin Banks, Will Campbell,
Speaker 2: Ted McMillan, Mason Graham, we all know those names, Travis Hunter.
Speaker 2: The Senior Bowl roster this year is the tackles and
Speaker 2: the receivers are like all that second and third tier
Speaker 2: right now, are going to be going from let's say
Speaker 2: pick twenty five to pick fifty five, right that are
Speaker 2: right in that sweet spot for the Patriots at thirty eight.
Speaker 2: So we'll really be able to get into and you know,
Speaker 2: kind of splice together where I feel and you feel,
Speaker 2: you know, guys like Restrepo and the kid from Stanford,
Speaker 2: the receiver from Stanford. All the tackles are going to
Speaker 2: be there that are going to be in that range
Speaker 2: of the draft as well. So I'm really looking forward
Speaker 2: to being able to kind of start to stack that
Speaker 2: part of the board because I've already done some homework
Speaker 2: on the top of the draft. Started doing that in
Speaker 2: like November. But I don't have as much knowledge about
Speaker 2: those Day two guys, like the prime Day two guys
Speaker 2: last year. You know, Lad McConkey was there and he
Speaker 2: was a stud at Mobile and he's a stud for
Speaker 2: the Chargers, Right, So you start to find some of
Speaker 2: those guys. Is I'm sure you're writing up some sort
Speaker 2: of a preview at some point on your end for
Speaker 2: the Senior Bowl for Shrine all that. Is there anybody
Speaker 2: that thing you want to plug or anybody that you're
Speaker 2: looking at.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll have beginning of next week on honey, if
Speaker 1: I was sports sub dot comments, what is it practice
Speaker 1: or Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday? Right, Yes, okay, so I'll have
Speaker 1: something up on Monday or Tuesday morning. But yeah, wide
Speaker 1: receivers and tackles. I think that's the big focus. I
Speaker 1: don't think a ton of the top edge rushers or
Speaker 1: that even that second tier edg rushers are going.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I don't know how many of those guys.
Speaker 2: And you always get there and like a few guys
Speaker 2: like decide not to participate and only do like you know,
Speaker 2: interviews and stuff like that with teams but I just
Speaker 2: know that there's a lot of people early date two
Speaker 2: prospects that are going to be there in Mobile next week.
Speaker 2: So we'll do a show next week. We've got to
Speaker 2: hammer down a time, probably sometime in the later afternoon,
Speaker 2: just because we'll have morning practices and things like that
Speaker 2: on Wednesday, but it'll probably be closer to a later
Speaker 2: afternoon start than our normal noon start, and you'll be
Speaker 2: here to host it here from the mother Ship, and
Speaker 2: we'll get into a Senior Bowl and Mobile. It'll be
Speaker 2: fun because you know, we've talked a lot about coaches,
Speaker 2: We've talked a lot about hiring, you know, coordinators and
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. So now it kind of
Speaker 2: feels like that's behind us and we'll really start to
Speaker 2: get into the off season and the personnel side of
Speaker 2: things and the players. So we'll be back next week
Speaker 2: for that show. We'll be exciting, and then the following
Speaker 2: week we'll I'm sure talk a lot more about it
Speaker 2: when we're both together again. But until the end, signing
Speaker 2: off for Alex Bart, I'm Evan Lazarre. Thanks for watching,
Speaker 2: thanks for listening, and we'll see you guys next week.
Speaker 2: Thank you for downloading this podcast.
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