Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Let's get to
Speaker 1: our next guest, because Tim and I were both at
Speaker 1: the Milken Institute Global Conference in Beverly Hills back in April.
Speaker 1: They were celebrating twenty five years of the conference. What
Speaker 1: I love about the gathering of the Milk the Milk
Speaker 1: In Global Conference is that it's top financial names along
Speaker 1: with those that are tackling the big macro, social and
Speaker 1: political issues of the day. We talked a lot about
Speaker 1: equal access, we talked a lot about E s G.
Speaker 1: We talked about leadership, which is kind of where I
Speaker 1: want to start with. Our next guest joining us right
Speaker 1: now is Carrie Healy. She's president of the Milk and
Speaker 1: Center for Advancing the American Dream and she joins us now. She,
Speaker 1: by the way, former president of Babson College, former Massachusetts
Speaker 1: Lieutenant governor, and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Carrie,
Speaker 1: so nice to have you here. You are joining us
Speaker 1: via zoom. I have a lot to ask and we
Speaker 1: want to talk to you about your work at the center.
Speaker 1: But first of all, I've got to ask you about
Speaker 1: a woman who has had several leadership positions. You were
Speaker 1: the first female head of babs on perhaps in college.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, um to see someone like Cheryl Sandberg stepping
Speaker 1: down as the chief operating officer, a very prominent position
Speaker 1: certainly when it comes to big tech just overall. And
Speaker 1: I don't even want to just say, you know, a
Speaker 1: top woman, a top individual when it comes to the
Speaker 1: global corporate world. What are your initial thoughts down? But
Speaker 1: my my guess is that she'll have another reincarnation and
Speaker 1: and come come forward and do something very interesting in
Speaker 1: the future. One of the things that I've noticed about
Speaker 1: women now is that they have longer workspans, and so
Speaker 1: you can really afford to have many different types of
Speaker 1: career over the course of time. And I'll just be
Speaker 1: looking forward to seeing what she does next. Yeah, it's certainly. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, I made the joke to Emily when she
Speaker 1: was in our studio earlier that she has so many
Speaker 1: interests outside of meta platforms already, and she has continuing
Speaker 1: on the company's board, so it's you know, she's certainly
Speaker 1: going to find herself busy. Carry I want to move
Speaker 1: on to what you're doing at the Milk and Center
Speaker 1: for Advancing the American Dream. But I want to start
Speaker 1: somewhere basic because I think some people would I would
Speaker 1: even hear the title the Center for Advancing the American
Speaker 1: Dream and say to themselves, wait a second, the American
Speaker 1: Dream in this day and age is not what it
Speaker 1: used to be. With rising prices, with the rising cost
Speaker 1: of education, with healthcare costs increasing, it seems to be
Speaker 1: out of reach for so many people. What do you
Speaker 1: make of that? Well, I think I think that's true.
Speaker 1: And I think that any kind of stereotype that we
Speaker 1: bring to the American Dream is going to be challenged
Speaker 1: in our current economy, and and I think we're going
Speaker 1: to probably end up talking about higher education and healthcare
Speaker 1: and all the things that are actually making the American
Speaker 1: Dream more difficult to achieve today. But I also want
Speaker 1: to go back to just that notion of our understanding
Speaker 1: of what the American Dream is. Everyone has their own
Speaker 1: individual definition, and for some people it might be that
Speaker 1: college education or owning a house, owning a car, you know,
Speaker 1: having having a certain lifestyle. But for other people it
Speaker 1: might just be freedom to do the to pursue the
Speaker 1: thing that they want most and so I think we
Speaker 1: should try to not make assumptions about what the American
Speaker 1: dream means, and we actually need to be asking young
Speaker 1: people more and more, you know, what what would the
Speaker 1: American dream mean for future generations? And how can we
Speaker 1: help you achieve yours? And forgive me because I want
Speaker 1: to go more into terms of the straight line of
Speaker 1: what you guys are doing at the center. But I
Speaker 1: gotta tell you when I think about the American dream,
Speaker 1: and this is hard for me and I think many
Speaker 1: Americans to get away from. It doesn't conjure up a
Speaker 1: picture of young innocent children being killed by guns. I
Speaker 1: ask you, as a former lieutenant governor of a well
Speaker 1: known state and who worked on some really tough issues,
Speaker 1: whether it was sexual abuse, children abuse, you know how,
Speaker 1: and you did this in a bipartisan way, why is
Speaker 1: it that we cannot get something more constructively done in
Speaker 1: a bipartisan way when it comes to gun legislation. Well, well,
Speaker 1: first and foremost, it is abs salutely heartbreaking. I think
Speaker 1: for anyone you know, to to witness this and to
Speaker 1: imagine this happening here in our country again and again,
Speaker 1: so it is horrifying spectacle for us to deal with
Speaker 1: and when I was Lieutenant governor and I served with
Speaker 1: Mitt Romney, we were able to actually bring both, um,
Speaker 1: the gun advocates and also the gun control advocates together
Speaker 1: on some gun control legislation. And it was not easy,
Speaker 1: but I think that it was extremely important that some
Speaker 1: common sense regulations were put into place at the same time,
Speaker 1: some some fairness was you know, also put into place
Speaker 1: around how applications are handled. Massachusetts is very unique in
Speaker 1: how they deal with gun licensing in that it's actually local.
Speaker 1: The local police chiefs get to decide who gets a gun,
Speaker 1: and I think that actually makes a lot sense because
Speaker 1: that's where people are best known in their own communities.
Speaker 1: And so we had a little bit of a leg
Speaker 1: up there. We could show respect to local officials, but
Speaker 1: we also needed to control some of the guns that
Speaker 1: we see involved in in some of the worst crimes. Now,
Speaker 1: but do we have to get to a point and
Speaker 1: you know, certainly our allies are saying, this is a
Speaker 1: this is a US problem. It's not a developed world problem.
Speaker 1: It's a United States of America problem. I mean, most
Speaker 1: people on a logical level would say, why do we
Speaker 1: need automatic firearms out there? Um, why can't we just
Speaker 1: take them away like we do in other countries? Do
Speaker 1: you see that as a as a you know, violation
Speaker 1: of rights? And forgive me for going there, but I
Speaker 1: just because I mean, it's it's an incredibly important issue,
Speaker 1: and and that was the decision that that we made
Speaker 1: in Massachusetts to limit those those high capacity UH munitions
Speaker 1: and guns. But but I think that what I'd really
Speaker 1: like to see is an honest debate about this is
Speaker 1: an honest one UH that that doesn't have to do
Speaker 1: with politics, And it upsets me terribly to imagine that
Speaker 1: this could be politicized in the upcoming UH cycle of elections.
Speaker 1: So I think now is one of those moments where
Speaker 1: people have really gotten completely fed up with the with
Speaker 1: the repetitive nature of this horror, and and hopefully good
Speaker 1: people on both sides will come together. I know that
Speaker 1: there is a growing number of people in the middle
Speaker 1: right now in the Senate and in the House UM,
Speaker 1: whether it's the problem Solvers Caucus or or the loose
Speaker 1: association of of people who have more moderate and collaborative
Speaker 1: values in the Senate, and hopefully UH they will come
Speaker 1: together and and promote a reasonable compromise. Well, given your
Speaker 1: experience and what you were able to accomplish as lieutenant
Speaker 1: governor of Massachusetts. How would you advise Democrats and Republicans?
Speaker 1: You actually come to some sort of meaningful conclusion here
Speaker 1: In politics in general, I think right now is a
Speaker 1: moment where people need to put their own re election aside. Uh.
Speaker 1: There is too much focus on each person's personal career
Speaker 1: and not enough on the good of the country and
Speaker 1: the good of the people. And so we need more
Speaker 1: people to have genuine courage and step up and be
Speaker 1: leaders in the true sense of the word, and not
Speaker 1: be looking to that next election cycle, and to be
Speaker 1: able to go back to their constituents and say I
Speaker 1: did what was right. I did what was right for
Speaker 1: you and your children, and if you would like to
Speaker 1: not re elect me, there will be others to serve.
Speaker 1: Do you have hope We've got thirty seconds and we're
Speaker 1: gonna come back and talk more about your work at
Speaker 1: Melcombe thirty seconds. It doesn't feel like there's many who
Speaker 1: do stand up like that. Do you have hope that
Speaker 1: this is There aren't many, But this is a time
Speaker 1: that should bring political courage. This is a time when
Speaker 1: people should look at what is happening, for example in Ukraine,
Speaker 1: and say that is the that is the personification of
Speaker 1: political and courage to you know, to be able to
Speaker 1: stand up and say this is my country and I'm
Speaker 1: going to defend it and I'm not going to compromise.
Speaker 1: Carrie Healy, she's president of the Milk and Center for
Speaker 1: Advancing the American Dream. She was former president at Babson College,
Speaker 1: former Massachusetts Lieutenant governor, member of the Council on Foreign Relations.
Speaker 1: She really has seen the world from so many different angles.
Speaker 1: She's still with us via zoom for those who are
Speaker 1: watching on YouTube. So talk to a little bit more
Speaker 1: about the Milk and Center. You know, I mean it
Speaker 1: when Tim and I were there, we were there in
Speaker 1: the fall as well. I do always love going to
Speaker 1: Milk and because, yep, there's a big financial focus. But
Speaker 1: you guys are looking at these big macro issues in
Speaker 1: terms of what ails us in the world, global issues,
Speaker 1: and you know, the last two to three years we're
Speaker 1: now going on, we are talking so much about the
Speaker 1: inequities that are out there in the world, and you
Speaker 1: talk about this American dream. You know, how do we
Speaker 1: need to think about getting to the American dream? Going
Speaker 1: forward for more. Yeah. One of the ways that I
Speaker 1: think we should be thinking about it is how do
Speaker 1: we help people reach their full potential. How do we
Speaker 1: remove the obstacles that are in the way of regular
Speaker 1: people who are just trying to make sure that they
Speaker 1: can make a good life for themselves and their families.
Speaker 1: And one of the things that we've seen right up
Speaker 1: front is that this whole notion of a college education
Speaker 1: being the doorway to the American dream has actually become,
Speaker 1: in some cases, a stumbling block to the American dream.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you went here because this is what
Speaker 1: I was thinking about. Go ahead. Yeah. So, so what's
Speaker 1: fascinating is there was a Mackenzie study recently um that
Speaker 1: said there are thirty million Americans out there who have
Speaker 1: the skills to be making seventy percent more income. Now
Speaker 1: imagine that seventy more income, but they can't because they
Speaker 1: don't have the degree necessary to get that job. And
Speaker 1: a number of employers and I don't blame employers for
Speaker 1: doing this, but I think that now I'm asking employers
Speaker 1: to reconsider this approach. But a lot of employers have
Speaker 1: simply said, it's going to be easier for me to
Speaker 1: find well qualified people for my job. If I make
Speaker 1: a bachelor's degree necessary, if I just make it a qualification,
Speaker 1: right carry Tim and I are saying in the background,
Speaker 1: were like, college is telling you, Jerry, and you were
Speaker 1: the former president of Babson College, would you did you
Speaker 1: come to this conclusion recently? Did you come to this
Speaker 1: would you have said the same thing? Well, you were
Speaker 1: the president of Babson Was there something that that changed
Speaker 1: your opinion about this? I think I'm just starting to
Speaker 1: see in the last year or so, the statistics, you know,
Speaker 1: I've started to dig into what are the what are
Speaker 1: the obstacles for people achieving the American dream? And I
Speaker 1: was really lucky at Babson College because it was a
Speaker 1: business school. It was an undergraduate, undergraduate business school. So
Speaker 1: the kids coming there, the young people coming there, um
Speaker 1: were they wanted to go into business, they wanted to
Speaker 1: be entrepreneurs, and they got to start their first company
Speaker 1: in the first year and and have that experience. And
Speaker 1: so they went just charging out into the workforce and
Speaker 1: either started their own companies or got jobs immediately of
Speaker 1: them get jobs, you know, in the first six months
Speaker 1: after graduation. So I didn't have to worry about them.
Speaker 1: I actually didn't even have to worry about looking their
Speaker 1: parents in the eye and saying, you know what, this
Speaker 1: is a good investment. You should go ahead and pay
Speaker 1: this tuition because I knew for a fact that it
Speaker 1: was going to pay off. And so what I became
Speaker 1: very aware of it when I was at you know, Babson,
Speaker 1: was that not every college has that same return on
Speaker 1: investment for their for their kids and their students and
Speaker 1: the parents. And so that investment can either be a
Speaker 1: good investment or it can be a bad investment, depending
Speaker 1: on what your major is, what the quality of the colleges,
Speaker 1: and what you're you know, what your ambitions are, what
Speaker 1: you want to do with your life. And so I
Speaker 1: I have become very frustrated with this idea that colleges
Speaker 1: are ranked based on their elitism, their reputation, based on
Speaker 1: perhaps how much research they do. Those are the things
Speaker 1: that that more likely drive the rankings that you have
Speaker 1: traditionally thought of, rather than how do graduates of those
Speaker 1: institutions do for the rest of their lives. You know,
Speaker 1: are they able to support themselves in their families, and
Speaker 1: are they able to achieve their dreams? So there needs
Speaker 1: to be this this this turning of the corner around
Speaker 1: that issue. So, Carrie, how do we as parents in
Speaker 1: a society? My dad was first generation, my mom was
Speaker 1: second generation. I'm one of seven kids. You know, from
Speaker 1: the get go, since we were kids, it was all
Speaker 1: about going to college. And you know, kudus to my
Speaker 1: parents for doing that with all of us, um, but
Speaker 1: you know, we had no doubt that that's what our
Speaker 1: our goal was. How do we as parents in a
Speaker 1: society where we tend to look down. I think it's
Speaker 1: fair to say, on people who don't have degrees, how
Speaker 1: do we do that? Rethink and over in Europe, you know,
Speaker 1: apprenticeships and other things are valued. I mean I kind
Speaker 1: of would like to be a plumber because plumbers are
Speaker 1: in demand and they make a ton of money. I
Speaker 1: see what that is actually a very good career path.
Speaker 1: At this moment, I think I think it's important to
Speaker 1: start the conversation by saying that the typical person who
Speaker 1: goes to college makes more money over the course of
Speaker 1: their life, more than a million dollars in most cases,
Speaker 1: than you know, the person who does not go to college. Right, So,
Speaker 1: so your parents were right, My my parents were right.
Speaker 1: In saying this is this is a pathway to being
Speaker 1: more economically secure over time. But and and this is
Speaker 1: where the granularity of those kinds of UH discussions needs
Speaker 1: to come into play. So, but sixteen percent of high
Speaker 1: school graduates actually make more than the bottom fift of
Speaker 1: college graduates. Wow. What so yeah, So let me see
Speaker 1: that again, six of high school graduates make more money
Speaker 1: than the lower fifty percent of college graduates. And and
Speaker 1: they don't have the debt, and and they don't have
Speaker 1: the debt. And if you have some college it's twenty
Speaker 1: three percent who do better than the lower half. And
Speaker 1: it's twenty eight percent of associate degree holders who do
Speaker 1: better than college graduates, the bottom half of those. So
Speaker 1: so so there it's more nuanced than just go get
Speaker 1: a degree. But the options, but the options are different.
Speaker 1: And just in the last minute that we have with you, Kerry,
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about what you're doing at the
Speaker 1: milkn Center for Advancing the American Dream with companies like Corsera. Yes. So,
Speaker 1: so what we have done is we have put together
Speaker 1: with Corsera and Google, UH and META and other organizations
Speaker 1: that offer tech based skills certificates, we put together a
Speaker 1: a certificate that is recognized by a hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: different employers UH. And though that certificate will give you
Speaker 1: a technical skill, there's a whole menu of ones to
Speaker 1: choose from. There about six or seven different types of
Speaker 1: skills that you can choose from. Plus it has an
Speaker 1: entire range of liberal arts skills, soft skills, things like
Speaker 1: critical reason critical thinking, or communications skills, things that are
Speaker 1: going to help you be employable again and again throughout
Speaker 1: your life. And we're putting these together. They are available
Speaker 1: through us UH free of charge to to anyone who
Speaker 1: would like to do the work to get this credential.
Speaker 1: And this is the sort of credential that we're hoping
Speaker 1: will allow people to make that extra sevent without having
Speaker 1: to invest in the debt that is involved in college. Well, Carry,
Speaker 1: so glad we got time keep us in the loop
Speaker 1: about how this is all going. Carry Healy, President of
Speaker 1: the Milk and Center for Advancing the American Dream. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Radio