WEBVTT - Tools for Achieving the American Dream

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Let's get to

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<v Speaker 1>our next guest, because Tim and I were both at

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<v Speaker 1>the Milken Institute Global Conference in Beverly Hills back in April.

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<v Speaker 1>They were celebrating twenty five years of the conference. What

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<v Speaker 1>I love about the gathering of the Milk the Milk

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<v Speaker 1>In Global Conference is that it's top financial names along

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<v Speaker 1>with those that are tackling the big macro, social and

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<v Speaker 1>political issues of the day. We talked a lot about

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<v Speaker 1>equal access, we talked a lot about E s G.

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<v Speaker 1>We talked about leadership, which is kind of where I

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<v Speaker 1>want to start with. Our next guest joining us right

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<v Speaker 1>now is Carrie Healy. She's president of the Milk and

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<v Speaker 1>Center for Advancing the American Dream and she joins us now. She,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, former president of Babson College, former Massachusetts

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<v Speaker 1>Lieutenant governor, and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Carrie,

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<v Speaker 1>so nice to have you here. You are joining us

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<v Speaker 1>via zoom. I have a lot to ask and we

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk to you about your work at the center.

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<v Speaker 1>But first of all, I've got to ask you about

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<v Speaker 1>a woman who has had several leadership positions. You were

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<v Speaker 1>the first female head of babs on perhaps in college.

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<v Speaker 1>Excuse me, um to see someone like Cheryl Sandberg stepping

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<v Speaker 1>down as the chief operating officer, a very prominent position

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<v Speaker 1>certainly when it comes to big tech just overall. And

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<v Speaker 1>I don't even want to just say, you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>top woman, a top individual when it comes to the

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<v Speaker 1>global corporate world. What are your initial thoughts down? But

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<v Speaker 1>my my guess is that she'll have another reincarnation and

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<v Speaker 1>and come come forward and do something very interesting in

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<v Speaker 1>the future. One of the things that I've noticed about

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<v Speaker 1>women now is that they have longer workspans, and so

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<v Speaker 1>you can really afford to have many different types of

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<v Speaker 1>career over the course of time. And I'll just be

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<v Speaker 1>looking forward to seeing what she does next. Yeah, it's certainly. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I made the joke to Emily when she

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<v Speaker 1>was in our studio earlier that she has so many

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<v Speaker 1>interests outside of meta platforms already, and she has continuing

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<v Speaker 1>on the company's board, so it's you know, she's certainly

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<v Speaker 1>going to find herself busy. Carry I want to move

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<v Speaker 1>on to what you're doing at the Milk and Center

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<v Speaker 1>for Advancing the American Dream. But I want to start

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<v Speaker 1>somewhere basic because I think some people would I would

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<v Speaker 1>even hear the title the Center for Advancing the American

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<v Speaker 1>Dream and say to themselves, wait a second, the American

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<v Speaker 1>Dream in this day and age is not what it

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<v Speaker 1>used to be. With rising prices, with the rising cost

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<v Speaker 1>of education, with healthcare costs increasing, it seems to be

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<v Speaker 1>out of reach for so many people. What do you

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<v Speaker 1>make of that? Well, I think I think that's true.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that any kind of stereotype that we

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<v Speaker 1>bring to the American Dream is going to be challenged

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<v Speaker 1>in our current economy, and and I think we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to probably end up talking about higher education and healthcare

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<v Speaker 1>and all the things that are actually making the American

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<v Speaker 1>Dream more difficult to achieve today. But I also want

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<v Speaker 1>to go back to just that notion of our understanding

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<v Speaker 1>of what the American Dream is. Everyone has their own

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<v Speaker 1>individual definition, and for some people it might be that

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<v Speaker 1>college education or owning a house, owning a car, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>having having a certain lifestyle. But for other people it

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<v Speaker 1>might just be freedom to do the to pursue the

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<v Speaker 1>thing that they want most and so I think we

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<v Speaker 1>should try to not make assumptions about what the American

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<v Speaker 1>dream means, and we actually need to be asking young

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<v Speaker 1>people more and more, you know, what what would the

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<v Speaker 1>American dream mean for future generations? And how can we

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<v Speaker 1>help you achieve yours? And forgive me because I want

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<v Speaker 1>to go more into terms of the straight line of

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<v Speaker 1>what you guys are doing at the center. But I

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<v Speaker 1>gotta tell you when I think about the American dream,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is hard for me and I think many

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<v Speaker 1>Americans to get away from. It doesn't conjure up a

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<v Speaker 1>picture of young innocent children being killed by guns. I

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<v Speaker 1>ask you, as a former lieutenant governor of a well

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<v Speaker 1>known state and who worked on some really tough issues,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it was sexual abuse, children abuse, you know how,

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<v Speaker 1>and you did this in a bipartisan way, why is

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<v Speaker 1>it that we cannot get something more constructively done in

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<v Speaker 1>a bipartisan way when it comes to gun legislation. Well, well,

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<v Speaker 1>first and foremost, it is abs salutely heartbreaking. I think

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<v Speaker 1>for anyone you know, to to witness this and to

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<v Speaker 1>imagine this happening here in our country again and again,

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<v Speaker 1>so it is horrifying spectacle for us to deal with

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<v Speaker 1>and when I was Lieutenant governor and I served with

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<v Speaker 1>Mitt Romney, we were able to actually bring both, um,

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<v Speaker 1>the gun advocates and also the gun control advocates together

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<v Speaker 1>on some gun control legislation. And it was not easy,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think that it was extremely important that some

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<v Speaker 1>common sense regulations were put into place at the same time,

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<v Speaker 1>some some fairness was you know, also put into place

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<v Speaker 1>around how applications are handled. Massachusetts is very unique in

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<v Speaker 1>how they deal with gun licensing in that it's actually local.

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<v Speaker 1>The local police chiefs get to decide who gets a gun,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think that actually makes a lot sense because

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<v Speaker 1>that's where people are best known in their own communities.

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<v Speaker 1>And so we had a little bit of a leg

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<v Speaker 1>up there. We could show respect to local officials, but

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<v Speaker 1>we also needed to control some of the guns that

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<v Speaker 1>we see involved in in some of the worst crimes. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>but do we have to get to a point and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, certainly our allies are saying, this is a

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<v Speaker 1>this is a US problem. It's not a developed world problem.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a United States of America problem. I mean, most

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<v Speaker 1>people on a logical level would say, why do we

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<v Speaker 1>need automatic firearms out there? Um, why can't we just

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<v Speaker 1>take them away like we do in other countries? Do

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<v Speaker 1>you see that as a as a you know, violation

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<v Speaker 1>of rights? And forgive me for going there, but I

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<v Speaker 1>just because I mean, it's it's an incredibly important issue,

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<v Speaker 1>and and that was the decision that that we made

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<v Speaker 1>in Massachusetts to limit those those high capacity UH munitions

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<v Speaker 1>and guns. But but I think that what I'd really

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<v Speaker 1>like to see is an honest debate about this is

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<v Speaker 1>an honest one UH that that doesn't have to do

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<v Speaker 1>with politics, And it upsets me terribly to imagine that

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<v Speaker 1>this could be politicized in the upcoming UH cycle of elections.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think now is one of those moments where

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<v Speaker 1>people have really gotten completely fed up with the with

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<v Speaker 1>the repetitive nature of this horror, and and hopefully good

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<v Speaker 1>people on both sides will come together. I know that

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<v Speaker 1>there is a growing number of people in the middle

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<v Speaker 1>right now in the Senate and in the House UM,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's the problem Solvers Caucus or or the loose

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<v Speaker 1>association of of people who have more moderate and collaborative

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<v Speaker 1>values in the Senate, and hopefully UH they will come

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<v Speaker 1>together and and promote a reasonable compromise. Well, given your

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<v Speaker 1>experience and what you were able to accomplish as lieutenant

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<v Speaker 1>governor of Massachusetts. How would you advise Democrats and Republicans?

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<v Speaker 1>You actually come to some sort of meaningful conclusion here

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<v Speaker 1>In politics in general, I think right now is a

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<v Speaker 1>moment where people need to put their own re election aside. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>There is too much focus on each person's personal career

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<v Speaker 1>and not enough on the good of the country and

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<v Speaker 1>the good of the people. And so we need more

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<v Speaker 1>people to have genuine courage and step up and be

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<v Speaker 1>leaders in the true sense of the word, and not

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<v Speaker 1>be looking to that next election cycle, and to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to go back to their constituents and say I

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<v Speaker 1>did what was right. I did what was right for

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<v Speaker 1>you and your children, and if you would like to

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<v Speaker 1>not re elect me, there will be others to serve.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have hope We've got thirty seconds and we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna come back and talk more about your work at

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<v Speaker 1>Melcombe thirty seconds. It doesn't feel like there's many who

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<v Speaker 1>do stand up like that. Do you have hope that

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<v Speaker 1>this is There aren't many, But this is a time

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<v Speaker 1>that should bring political courage. This is a time when

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<v Speaker 1>people should look at what is happening, for example in Ukraine,

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<v Speaker 1>and say that is the that is the personification of

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<v Speaker 1>political and courage to you know, to be able to

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<v Speaker 1>stand up and say this is my country and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to defend it and I'm not going to compromise.

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<v Speaker 1>Carrie Healy, she's president of the Milk and Center for

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<v Speaker 1>Advancing the American Dream. She was former president at Babson College,

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<v Speaker 1>former Massachusetts Lieutenant governor, member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

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<v Speaker 1>She really has seen the world from so many different angles.

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<v Speaker 1>She's still with us via zoom for those who are

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<v Speaker 1>watching on YouTube. So talk to a little bit more

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<v Speaker 1>about the Milk and Center. You know, I mean it

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<v Speaker 1>when Tim and I were there, we were there in

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<v Speaker 1>the fall as well. I do always love going to

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<v Speaker 1>Milk and because, yep, there's a big financial focus. But

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<v Speaker 1>you guys are looking at these big macro issues in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of what ails us in the world, global issues,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, the last two to three years we're

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<v Speaker 1>now going on, we are talking so much about the

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<v Speaker 1>inequities that are out there in the world, and you

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<v Speaker 1>talk about this American dream. You know, how do we

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<v Speaker 1>need to think about getting to the American dream? Going

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<v Speaker 1>forward for more. Yeah. One of the ways that I

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<v Speaker 1>think we should be thinking about it is how do

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<v Speaker 1>we help people reach their full potential. How do we

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<v Speaker 1>remove the obstacles that are in the way of regular

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<v Speaker 1>people who are just trying to make sure that they

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<v Speaker 1>can make a good life for themselves and their families.

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<v Speaker 1>And one of the things that we've seen right up

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<v Speaker 1>front is that this whole notion of a college education

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<v Speaker 1>being the doorway to the American dream has actually become,

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<v Speaker 1>in some cases, a stumbling block to the American dream.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm so glad you went here because this is what

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<v Speaker 1>I was thinking about. Go ahead. Yeah. So, so what's

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<v Speaker 1>fascinating is there was a Mackenzie study recently um that

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<v Speaker 1>said there are thirty million Americans out there who have

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<v Speaker 1>the skills to be making seventy percent more income. Now

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<v Speaker 1>imagine that seventy more income, but they can't because they

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<v Speaker 1>don't have the degree necessary to get that job. And

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<v Speaker 1>a number of employers and I don't blame employers for

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<v Speaker 1>doing this, but I think that now I'm asking employers

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<v Speaker 1>to reconsider this approach. But a lot of employers have

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<v Speaker 1>simply said, it's going to be easier for me to

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<v Speaker 1>find well qualified people for my job. If I make

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<v Speaker 1>a bachelor's degree necessary, if I just make it a qualification,

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<v Speaker 1>right carry Tim and I are saying in the background,

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<v Speaker 1>were like, college is telling you, Jerry, and you were

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<v Speaker 1>the former president of Babson College, would you did you

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<v Speaker 1>come to this conclusion recently? Did you come to this

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<v Speaker 1>would you have said the same thing? Well, you were

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<v Speaker 1>the president of Babson Was there something that that changed

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<v Speaker 1>your opinion about this? I think I'm just starting to

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<v Speaker 1>see in the last year or so, the statistics, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I've started to dig into what are the what are

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<v Speaker 1>the obstacles for people achieving the American dream? And I

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<v Speaker 1>was really lucky at Babson College because it was a

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<v Speaker 1>business school. It was an undergraduate, undergraduate business school. So

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<v Speaker 1>the kids coming there, the young people coming there, um

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<v Speaker 1>were they wanted to go into business, they wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>be entrepreneurs, and they got to start their first company

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<v Speaker 1>in the first year and and have that experience. And

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<v Speaker 1>so they went just charging out into the workforce and

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<v Speaker 1>either started their own companies or got jobs immediately of

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<v Speaker 1>them get jobs, you know, in the first six months

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<v Speaker 1>after graduation. So I didn't have to worry about them.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually didn't even have to worry about looking their

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<v Speaker 1>parents in the eye and saying, you know what, this

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<v Speaker 1>is a good investment. You should go ahead and pay

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<v Speaker 1>this tuition because I knew for a fact that it

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<v Speaker 1>was going to pay off. And so what I became

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<v Speaker 1>very aware of it when I was at you know, Babson,

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<v Speaker 1>was that not every college has that same return on

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<v Speaker 1>investment for their for their kids and their students and

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<v Speaker 1>the parents. And so that investment can either be a

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<v Speaker 1>good investment or it can be a bad investment, depending

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<v Speaker 1>on what your major is, what the quality of the colleges,

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<v Speaker 1>and what you're you know, what your ambitions are, what

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<v Speaker 1>you want to do with your life. And so I

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<v Speaker 1>I have become very frustrated with this idea that colleges

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<v Speaker 1>are ranked based on their elitism, their reputation, based on

0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.360
<v Speaker 1>perhaps how much research they do. Those are the things

0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.280
<v Speaker 1>that that more likely drive the rankings that you have

0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:23.360
<v Speaker 1>traditionally thought of, rather than how do graduates of those

0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.679
<v Speaker 1>institutions do for the rest of their lives. You know,

0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.200
<v Speaker 1>are they able to support themselves in their families, and

0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.480
<v Speaker 1>are they able to achieve their dreams? So there needs

0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.120
<v Speaker 1>to be this this this turning of the corner around

0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.680
<v Speaker 1>that issue. So, Carrie, how do we as parents in

0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:39.920
<v Speaker 1>a society? My dad was first generation, my mom was

0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.959
<v Speaker 1>second generation. I'm one of seven kids. You know, from

0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.040
<v Speaker 1>the get go, since we were kids, it was all

0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.320
<v Speaker 1>about going to college. And you know, kudus to my

0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.960
<v Speaker 1>parents for doing that with all of us, um, but

0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:53.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, we had no doubt that that's what our

0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:55.800
<v Speaker 1>our goal was. How do we as parents in a

0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.679
<v Speaker 1>society where we tend to look down. I think it's

0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.440
<v Speaker 1>fair to say, on people who don't have degrees, how

0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:05.160
<v Speaker 1>do we do that? Rethink and over in Europe, you know,

0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.600
<v Speaker 1>apprenticeships and other things are valued. I mean I kind

0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:10.920
<v Speaker 1>of would like to be a plumber because plumbers are

0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.000
<v Speaker 1>in demand and they make a ton of money. I

0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.360
<v Speaker 1>see what that is actually a very good career path.

0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.240
<v Speaker 1>At this moment, I think I think it's important to

0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:23.600
<v Speaker 1>start the conversation by saying that the typical person who

0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.720
<v Speaker 1>goes to college makes more money over the course of

0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.040
<v Speaker 1>their life, more than a million dollars in most cases,

0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:33.200
<v Speaker 1>than you know, the person who does not go to college. Right, So,

0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.320
<v Speaker 1>so your parents were right, My my parents were right.

0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.480
<v Speaker 1>In saying this is this is a pathway to being

0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:44.200
<v Speaker 1>more economically secure over time. But and and this is

0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:48.679
<v Speaker 1>where the granularity of those kinds of UH discussions needs

0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:53.320
<v Speaker 1>to come into play. So, but sixteen percent of high

0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:58.920
<v Speaker 1>school graduates actually make more than the bottom fift of

0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.679
<v Speaker 1>college graduates. Wow. What so yeah, So let me see

0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.960
<v Speaker 1>that again, six of high school graduates make more money

0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:11.560
<v Speaker 1>than the lower fifty percent of college graduates. And and

0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.440
<v Speaker 1>they don't have the debt, and and they don't have

0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.600
<v Speaker 1>the debt. And if you have some college it's twenty

0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.360
<v Speaker 1>three percent who do better than the lower half. And

0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:25.680
<v Speaker 1>it's twenty eight percent of associate degree holders who do

0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:29.800
<v Speaker 1>better than college graduates, the bottom half of those. So

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:34.080
<v Speaker 1>so so there it's more nuanced than just go get

0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.120
<v Speaker 1>a degree. But the options, but the options are different.

0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.080
<v Speaker 1>And just in the last minute that we have with you, Kerry,

0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.240
<v Speaker 1>talk a little bit about what you're doing at the

0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 1>milkn Center for Advancing the American Dream with companies like Corsera. Yes. So,

0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:48.920
<v Speaker 1>so what we have done is we have put together

0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 1>with Corsera and Google, UH and META and other organizations

0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.960
<v Speaker 1>that offer tech based skills certificates, we put together a

0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.920
<v Speaker 1>a certificate that is recognized by a hundred and fifty

0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:06.120
<v Speaker 1>different employers UH. And though that certificate will give you

0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.040
<v Speaker 1>a technical skill, there's a whole menu of ones to

0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:11.520
<v Speaker 1>choose from. There about six or seven different types of

0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.000
<v Speaker 1>skills that you can choose from. Plus it has an

0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:18.160
<v Speaker 1>entire range of liberal arts skills, soft skills, things like

0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:22.680
<v Speaker 1>critical reason critical thinking, or communications skills, things that are

0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.840
<v Speaker 1>going to help you be employable again and again throughout

0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.880
<v Speaker 1>your life. And we're putting these together. They are available

0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.720
<v Speaker 1>through us UH free of charge to to anyone who

0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.560
<v Speaker 1>would like to do the work to get this credential.

0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.800
<v Speaker 1>And this is the sort of credential that we're hoping

0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:46.440
<v Speaker 1>will allow people to make that extra sevent without having

0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.880
<v Speaker 1>to invest in the debt that is involved in college. Well, Carry,

0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.560
<v Speaker 1>so glad we got time keep us in the loop

0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:54.800
<v Speaker 1>about how this is all going. Carry Healy, President of

0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.240
<v Speaker 1>the Milk and Center for Advancing the American Dream. This

0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:58.400
<v Speaker 1>is Bloomberg Radio