1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: And I also want to thank all of you who 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: was supported our show, cared enough to do something about it, 3 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: to make your voices heard so that mine could be heard. 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 2: I will never forget it. 5 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 3: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 3: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Wednesday, September twenty fourth, 7 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 3: twenty twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am 8 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 3: co editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm 9 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 3: in LA He's in New York, and Variety has reporters 10 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 3: around the world covering the business of entertainment. On today's episode, 11 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 3: we'll hear from Sterlin Harjoe, creator of Reservation Dogs. He's 12 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 3: back with a new series for FX, The Lowdown. I 13 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 3: hand the mic to my Variety colleague Michael Schneider, who 14 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 3: interviews Harjoe about his new series that you might call 15 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 3: Tulsa Noir. And we'll hear from Variety's Clayton Davis on 16 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 3: the surprise news this weekend that Christopher Nolan has been 17 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 3: elected President of the Director's Guild of America. But before 18 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 3: we get to that, here are a few headlines just 19 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 3: in this morning that you need to know. Jimmy Kimmel 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 3: and his return to ABC last night is still the 21 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 3: biggest story in entertainment. That was a clip from Kimmel's 22 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 3: monologue that you heard as the cold open to this episode. 23 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 3: To me and in the view of many critics, he 24 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 3: struck just the right tone. You could hear the crack 25 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 3: of emotion in his voice as soon as he opened 26 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 3: his mouth. He was genuine and emotional without being surupe 27 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 3: He did not apologize, He delivered laugh out loud singers, 28 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 3: and he pulled out their receipts on the hypocrisy of 29 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: those self styled free speech warriors who have been trying 30 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 3: to get him pushed off the air. All in all, 31 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 3: Tuesday's episode of Jimmy Kimmel Live was inspired, heartfelt television 32 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 3: from someone who has truly grown up on the airwaves. 33 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 3: All of Variety's coverage and perspective on Kimmel in the 34 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 3: Battle for Late Night can be found on Variety dot 35 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 3: com right now, along with so much more. Now we 36 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 3: turn to conversations with Variety journalists about news and trends 37 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 3: in show business. The new Ethan Hawk drama The Lowdown, 38 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 3: premieres tonight on FX. Michael Schneider, Variety's TV editor, who 39 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 3: is also a producer and a host of Variety's Award 40 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 3: Circuit podcast, checks in here with Sterlin Harjoe, creator and 41 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 3: showrunner of The Lowdown. 42 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 4: Thanks Cynthia So, I was a tremendous fan of FX's 43 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 4: critically acclaimed three season series of Reservation Dogs and could 44 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 4: tell how much creator Sterlin Harjoe revered the art of cinema. 45 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 4: Episodes would often contain nods to various genres and films, 46 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 4: and even the series finale was an homage to Robert 47 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 4: Altman's Nashville. So it's probably no surprise that when Harjoe 48 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 4: set out to create his follow up to res Dogs, 49 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 4: he decided to tackle another one of his favorite styles, 50 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 4: film noir. The Lowdown, which premieres Tuesday on FX, stars 51 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 4: Ethan Hawke as a citizen journalist named Lee Raybond who 52 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 4: calls himself a truth story and while investigating the CD 53 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 4: under belly of Tulsa, Oklahoma. I recently caught up with 54 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 4: Harjo to talk about The Lowdown, and I began by 55 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 4: asking him how he landed on doing a noir as 56 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 4: the follow up to res Dogs. 57 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: It was during res Dogs I think like a lot 58 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: of episodes would be different genres, Like we would play 59 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: with different genres within episodes, and that kind of made 60 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: me fall more in love with genre. I was always 61 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: a fan, but like realizing how much I could say 62 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 2: within the confines and the sort of parameters of genre 63 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: was exciting to me. And then one of my favorite 64 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: genres is noir. I just have always been drawn to it. 65 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: I just am such a fan, you know, Neo noir, 66 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: everything under this I just sort of devoured and it's 67 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 2: the most exciting to me. And I just had always thought, 68 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: you know, I could set some thing in Tulsa. I 69 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: think noirs that are set in La. Right now, she's 70 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: kind of been done. You know, the underbelly has been explored, 71 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: but the underbelly of Tulsa, conspiracy of Tulsa places in 72 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: the middle of America. They haven't been explored yet. 73 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: And Tulsa, obviously, as we know, it has a really 74 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: dark history. You touch on that in this show too. 75 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: As you know, we discussed more about the nineteen twenty 76 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: one massacre, and that's part of the history of this city. 77 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: But you're from that area too, so I'm sure you 78 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: have a complicated relationship with Tulsa. 79 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love Tulsa. I mean I think I think 80 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: every place has a really dark history in America, every 81 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 2: city does. I think it's about your relationship with that 82 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: darkness on how you move forward as a place. You know, 83 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 2: And in the last ten years or so, through some 84 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: of the work for an organization I did called This 85 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 2: Land Press, through the show The Watchmen, through a lot 86 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: of activists from North Tulsa, a lot of activists from 87 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 2: Tulsa in general, a lot of people have you know, 88 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 2: brought more truths out about the history of Tulsa, especially 89 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 2: when when it pertains to the Tulsa Race massacre. That 90 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: truth and being honest with your past is healing and 91 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 2: it brings a community back together and wakes people up. 92 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 2: And you're seeing that happen. Now, there's still a long 93 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 2: way to go, but it's happening. You know. In the 94 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: history of Tulsa and the history of Oklahoma in general 95 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: is you know, one of darkness, just like the rest 96 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 2: of the United States, but specifically it was Indian territory 97 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: and my tribe and a lot of other tribes were 98 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: on the trail marched to Oklahoma, on the trail of 99 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 2: tears and you know, displaced. A lot of people died 100 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: and had to make a new home out of a 101 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 2: place they didn't understand that well or no that well. 102 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 2: So you know, but then it's also a story of survival, 103 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, those tribes rebuilt and those tribes 104 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: are thriving now. So as much as it is a 105 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 2: story of the you know you touch you on darkness, 106 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 2: it's also you know, you see survival in Oklahoma and 107 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 2: in Tulsa. Tulsa was founded by Gogee Creek people, which 108 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 2: is my tribe, and it just felt like, you know, 109 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 2: it hadn't been explored in the film yet, and I 110 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: felt exciting. 111 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm learning a lot. Like I didn't 112 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: know about le Roy Chapman, the muckraker who Ethan's character 113 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: is kind of loosely based on. Tell me more about that, 114 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: Tell me about him and how you like sort of 115 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: came upon him to kind of create Ethan's character. 116 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was friends with him. I mean, I 117 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:29,239 Speaker 2: worked with him. 118 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: And we well I didn't even realize that amazing. 119 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 2: So we worked for an organization called This Land Press, 120 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: and I was a struggling independent filmmaker. I needed a job. 121 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 2: They gave me free rein to make documentaries in Tulsa 122 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 2: about whatever I wanted to make. And a lot of 123 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 2: that was excitement because we were telling the truth. We 124 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: were talking about the race massacre, we were talking about 125 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: stories that happened locally, and we were really kind of 126 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 2: holding a mirror up to our city, you know, and 127 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: really kind of presenting the city with a reflection of itself, 128 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 2: for better and for worse in the bat and something 129 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 2: about that's very healing, about seeing yourself truthfully, and and 130 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 2: Leroy was a big champion of that. And Leroy I 131 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: did a series with him called Tulsa Public Secrets and 132 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: where I rode shotgun in his white van. And he 133 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: was a journalist. He was also a you know, he 134 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: was a historian, a researcher, was he did a lot 135 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 2: of things. He made shirts, he didn't made art, he 136 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: was an artist. But one thing that he was obsessed 137 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: with it was talking about things that a lot of 138 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 2: people weren't either interested in or didn't want to talk about. 139 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: And a lot of that involving the truth. And I 140 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 2: just you know, it took a lot from him, was 141 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 2: inspired by him, as you do a lot of people 142 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 2: and he passed away, and I almost made a feature 143 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: film about him, but then I put it away. And then, 144 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: you know, once Rezdog's was being made, I knew it 145 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: was going to end it. I was like, I still 146 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 2: want to do a noir and I was kind of 147 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 2: just trying to think of the right thing, and so 148 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: I just kind of took the concept that I had 149 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 2: before and took inspiration from my old friend and inspiration 150 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 2: from the script that i'd been writing, and turned it 151 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 2: into the pilot for The Lowdown. 152 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: And then, of course you've been buddies with Ethan for 153 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: a long time. He showed up and did some great 154 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: stuff with you on Res Dogs. Talk about pitching this 155 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: to him and getting him involved. 156 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. I originally, you know, we'd been writing 157 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: together before Res Dogs, and then he was in Res Dogs, 158 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 2: and after that, I was like, oh, I just really 159 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: want to work with Ethan. And I had this idea 160 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: of like he was someone I wanted to cast in 161 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: this show, but like he's whenever you become friends, it's 162 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: a little you know, you don't want to like hurt 163 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: the friendship, and I didn't want to just go, hey, 164 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 2: will you be in this movie? Or show. So I 165 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: just sent it to him under the guys that I 166 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 2: wanted notes. I wanted to get notes back from my script, 167 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 2: and I was just trying to see if, you know, 168 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: like if he was into it, and see what his 169 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 2: reaction was. And luckily he read it and said, you know, 170 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: why am I not playing this guy? And from that 171 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 2: point on, like, well you are, And that point on 172 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: we made you know, that's what it was. And you know, 173 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 2: from then on I was writing even though I was 174 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: writing for him before, I was really writing for Ethan 175 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 2: after that. 176 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 4: This cast is ridiculous by the way. 177 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: I mean you pulled off. It's just an amazing set 178 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: up both you know, folks who you know were familiar with, 179 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: but even folks from other worlds, like I love seeing 180 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: Killer Mike on there. I mean, it's just this is 181 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds it seems like you had a 182 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: lot of fun and maybe a little bit of the 183 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: pick of the litter in terms of who you wanted 184 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: to work with. 185 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty crazy. I mean, so many people 186 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 2: agreed to be in this show, and uh, you know, 187 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: part of that's Ethan, part of that's other actors. But 188 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: I think a lot of it as reservation dogs. You know, 189 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 2: a lot of people were inspired and really liked that 190 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 2: show and and it was I think it's a movie 191 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: lover show, and they could see that I was also 192 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 2: a movie lover and wanted to support me in some way. 193 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 2: You know, a lot of them, a lot of the 194 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: actors are from Oklahoma originally, and I and you know, 195 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 2: like I think you feel some of that, and I 196 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: don't know it was I'm totally blown away with the 197 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: caliber of actors that I've worked with. I've been doing 198 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 2: this a long time, and I mean, for instance, like 199 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: Kyle McLaughlin I met when I was at the Sundance Labs. 200 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 2: He was an actor for another project there. I met 201 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 2: him there and he was in a screenplay reading of 202 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 2: mine and he played white character go to Philip Seymour Hoffman. 203 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 2: And I think about that, Like, I remember he was 204 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 2: saying some line and it made people laugh and someone 205 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 2: in the front row said, you should be in his film. 206 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 2: I remember Kyle saying I'll be in anything he makes. 207 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 2: And I didn't take him up on it then, but 208 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: you know, twenty years later, I cashed that check. I 209 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 2: go up and asked if he'd be in the show. 210 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: We talk about the noir and sort of you really 211 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: wanted to do in noir? What is it about that 212 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: genre and what did you really just enjoy and getting 213 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: to do you know, this an eight episode sort of 214 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: homage to that genre, but doing it in that very specific, 215 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: stro and hardro way. 216 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 2: I think I love noir because it's about flawed people 217 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 2: and flawed characters, and no one gets out alive. I'm scared. 218 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 2: There's some true to it. It's about human nature. It's 219 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 2: about the darkness. It's about the darkness in our cities. 220 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 2: It's about the darkness and our choices in life, and 221 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: it really explores the dark side. And then you kind 222 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 2: of you know, this isn't a genre of Neon and 223 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 2: Warren and funny, and it's like and then you get 224 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: to balance the dark and the humor, and I don't know, 225 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 2: it's just an exciting, exciting genre that anything can happen 226 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: in and you're dealing with big questions and small questions 227 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 2: and morality and all of these things, and I just 228 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 2: find it exciting. 229 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 4: But Sterlin Harjoe, creator of The Lowdown, which premieres Tuesday 230 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 4: on FX and the next day on WHO. 231 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 3: Now. We turned to Clayton Davis catching up with the 232 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,719 Speaker 3: surprise news that Christopher Nolan has been elected president of 233 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 3: the Director's Guild of America. Clayton and I try to 234 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 3: pull off our best inception style inquiry as to why 235 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 3: the most prominent director of his generation has taken on 236 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 3: this very big side gig. Clayton Davis, thank you for 237 00:11:58,679 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 3: joining me. 238 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Cymbia. 239 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 3: There has been a lot of news the last couple 240 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 3: of days. Of course, everybody has been riveted to the 241 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 3: Jimmy Kimmel story. But on Saturday night, a big thing 242 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 3: happened that didn't get as much attention as it would 243 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 3: have because there were a whole lot of other big 244 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 3: things going on in the world. Christopher Nolan was elected 245 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 3: president of the Directors Guild of America. And on the 246 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 3: one hand, that's not that surprising. Christopher Nolan has been 247 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 3: involved with the DGA, He's been on the board, he 248 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 3: was on the board just before his election. Gets surprised 249 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 3: me and I think a lot of industry people that 250 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 3: a filmmaker of his stature, with a very big project 251 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 3: on the horizon would raise his hand and take on 252 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 3: this considerable job. Clayton, what do you think is going 253 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 3: on here. 254 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 5: So, I mean, it's definitely the highest profile figure I 255 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 5: can remember see on the head of the DGA. He 256 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 5: has such a great relationship with studios and he's very 257 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 5: pro theatrical. So with the negotiations coming up, that's someone 258 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 5: that's probably going to pound the pageant fighting AI. But 259 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 5: it it caught me by surprise because he just wrapped 260 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 5: shooting The Odyssey, which is next big movie post oppeniveror 261 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 5: he just won the Oscar three years ago, and I 262 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 5: can't recall someone as huge at the top of his 263 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 5: game who is by many measures considered an Awards darling 264 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 5: take on a position as prominent as that. 265 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 3: I think the timing, especially with The Odyssey, which as 266 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 3: we know now awards campaigns, pr campaigns for big movies, 267 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 3: this can be a year long effort for people in 268 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 3: terms of what we've seen where Christopher Nolan has spoken 269 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 3: out about artist rights issues, about studio and economic issues 270 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 3: affecting artists. He's got a very clear lens on artist rights, 271 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 3: and right now everybody in the industry is grappling with AI. 272 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 3: You've had all these guilds coming up with statements basically 273 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 3: stating explicitly that content is made by humans. My hunches 274 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 3: that he feels like this is a very fraught time 275 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 3: for artists in general, for filmmakers, for directors, and he 276 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 3: wants to be at the table having a voice. Does 277 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 3: that ring true to you from what you know of 278 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 3: Christopher Nolan? 279 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 5: I would assume that that's a bear assumption, and he 280 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 5: is someone that was very vocal about the way theatrical 281 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 5: needs to continue to live on. And what better not 282 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 5: only for yourself but also the artists that are coming 283 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 5: up underneath you than being the voice at the table. 284 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 5: I'm excited for what he's going to bring. 285 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 3: I think the industry sees him as a standard bearer 286 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 3: of a certain quality on the big screen. It's no 287 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 3: secret there's historically been a lot of tension between the 288 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 3: Writer's Guild of America and the Director's Guild of America. 289 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 3: But when you have somebody like Christopher Nolan at the table, 290 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 3: it might be a little harder for others to take 291 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 3: cheap shots just because he is so well respected. Segueing 292 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 3: to why Christopher Nolan, why we're talking about him this way? 293 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 3: What is it about him personally that has made him 294 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 3: such a brand? He's not someone out there on social 295 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 3: media all the time. You don't see him in party coverage, 296 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 3: but he's as big a director brand as there exists 297 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 3: right now. Do you agree? 298 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely. 299 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 5: It's very rare that the director's name can carry the 300 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 5: weight of a movie, and Nolan has built that. And 301 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 5: I think obviously the biggest transition for him was during 302 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 5: the Dark Knight trilogy, because I mean, he was a 303 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 5: known entity and we all love Memento. But when thatman 304 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 5: begins with an obviously the Dark Knight, when that transition happened, 305 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 5: it was kind of game over in terms of this 306 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 5: is a guy who's here to stay and he gets 307 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 5: final cut. You ask Christopher Nolan what movie he wants 308 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 5: to do. He's not pitching you a movie. And I 309 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 5: think if he does what he think he will intend 310 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 5: to do, which is bring fairer things to the members 311 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 5: the studios, they have a different type of negotiation ball 312 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 5: game on their hands next year. 313 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 3: A very experienced agent years ago told me just emphatically, 314 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 3: as if it was gospel fact, that whoever is elected 315 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 3: the head of SAG, it was SAG back then, DJ 316 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 3: and WGA. They're always punished, they don't work for a while. 317 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 3: The studios always punish them. I don't know if I 318 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 3: entirely believe that. I think there's been some truth to 319 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 3: it at times, but certainly Christopher Nolan is going to 320 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 3: challenge that. And I do want to just say, as 321 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 3: a longtime Leslie linka Glotter fan, the outgoing DGA president 322 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 3: who has directed some incredible episodes of television Homeland mad Men, 323 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 3: I can cite the episode specifically. She served two terms 324 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: as president of DGA during very difficult times for the 325 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 3: Helmer's Guild, so she has definitely earned her stripes. Thank you, Clayton, 326 00:16:54,960 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 3: Thank you. As we close out today's episode, here's a 327 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 3: few things we're watching for. Variety's annual Entertainment and Technology 328 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 3: Conference will be held tomorrow, September twenty fifth in Los Angeles. 329 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 3: Our speakers include the Duffer Brothers of Stranger Things Fame. 330 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 3: We have Jerry Bruckheimer talking about the technological feats of 331 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 3: f one, the movie, and we have an array of CEOs, producers, 332 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 3: talent and technologists talking about the intersection of where we 333 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 3: all live these days. Entertainment and technology Highlights to come 334 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 3: next week and on Daily Variety's companion podcast, Strictly Business 335 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 3: before we Go. Congrats to screenwriter Michelle mulroney and showrunner 336 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 3: Tom Fontana. Mulroney was elected tuesday as president of the 337 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 3: Writers Guild of America West. Fontana was elected last week 338 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 3: to lead the WJ East. Both are seasoned scribes and 339 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 3: both have a lot on their plates, with studio contract 340 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 3: talks coming up next year. Thanks for listening. This episode 341 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 3: was written and reported by me Cynthia Lyttleton, with contributions 342 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 3: from Michael Schneider and Clayton Davis. Stick Snick's hick Picks. 343 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 3: Please leave us a review at the podcast platform of 344 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 3: your choice, and please tune in tomorrow for another episode 345 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 3: of Daily Variety.