WEBVTT - What would the ERA mean for women today? 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.440 Next Question with Katie Kuric is a production of I 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:06.680 Heart Radio and Katie Couric Media. Hi everyone, I'm Katie 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:12.680 Couric and welcome to Next Question. On this episode, we 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.640 really still have to fight to be considered equal, and 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:19.200 we've had enough of this, you know, we just really 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:24.200 have to take this and move forward. Can you believe 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.720 the battle over the Equal Rights Amendment is still going on? 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:32.320 This is the radical move that will finally set equality 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.479 into motion. A century is enough. The proposed addition to 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.760 the Constitution says, quote equality of rights under the law 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.159 shall not be denied or abridged by the United States 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:48.520 or by any state on account of sex. End quote. 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:54.080 This one sentence, written all the way back in is 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.279 that the heart of a national constitutional debate that may 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:02.000 now finally be nearing its end. Virginia is for e 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:07.560 r A lovers a lot of great things. This is Zion, who, 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:11.520 along with her mom, Lily Bernard, an artist and activist 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.480 in l A, made this p s A a year 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.360 ago to spread the word that Virginia could be the 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.280 last state needed to ratify the e R A. She 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:23.920 was just ten. The next great things to come out 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:28.280 of Virginia is the Equal Rights Comming first approved by 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.560 Congress back in nineteen seventy two when I was fifteen, 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:34.360 the e r A has been dormant for the better 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:38.600 part of four decades, just three state shy of ratification. 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.080 But now, thanks to the tireless work of e r 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:46.080 A activists and a whole new generation of voices like Zions, 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:51.560 the amendment achieved its goal on January. All those in 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:56.600 favor of the resolution that the resolution passed a century 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.640 after women secured their right to vote in the US, 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:03.400 for Gino became today the crucial thirty eight state to 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:08.560 ratify the two Equal Rights Amendment. The passage marked a 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.519 historic moment for the e r A, which was written 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.760 eyest nine nays, forty one abstention zero. For the women 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.160 of Virginia and the women of America, the resolution has 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:26.239 finally So what does the passage of the e r 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.359 A mean for the women of America and when will 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:33.160 it actually take effect? Later we'll hear from playwright Heidi 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:37.240 Shrek of the Tony nominated play what the Constitution means 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.640 to me? But first we turned to Carol Jenkins, the 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:43.760 co president and CEO of the e r A Coalition, 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.679 doubt us answer my next question, does the e r 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.920 A actually have a shot this time? And why in 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.799 do we still need it? We always think Ellis Paul 0:02:55.960 --> 0:03:00.440 a really courageous, smart, determined woman for giving women the 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:02.960 right to vote. She was at the head of that. 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.200 Alice Paul is a critical figure in the fight for 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:12.560 women's equality. Born in New Jersey in eighteen five, Alice 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.200 was ahead of her time. Her parents embraced gender equality 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:21.320 and education for women. She herself earned multiple degrees, including 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.919 a law degree and a pH d. In the early 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.240 twentieth century, she became one of the most vocal leaders 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:32.440 of the suffrage movement, putting pressure on Congress and President 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:36.000 Woodrow Wilson to give women the right to vote, which 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:40.200 they finally did with the Nineteenth Amendment, passed in nineteen 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:44.520 nineteen and ratified in nineteen twenty. When she got that 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.720 Nineteenth Amendment, she said, you know what, we need one 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:53.280 more step, one more insurance for equality, and that was 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:58.320 to amend the Constitution where the drafters deliberately left women out. 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.040 It was Alice Paul her elf who wrote the very 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.480 first version of the Equal Rights Amendment. The National Women's 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:08.559 Party proposed it in nineteen twenty three and two Republican 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:13.480 senators introduced it to Congress. Year after year thanks to Alice, 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.760 the e r A is introduced into every new session 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:22.560 of Congress, but year after year it fails. From three 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:27.479 to nineteen seventy two, that fifty year chunk, Alice Paul 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:31.160 and her colleagues were always working for it. The groups 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.400 would get small and they would get large. And when 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:35.600 some of our colleagues met up with her in the 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:39.839 nineteen seventies, apparently Alice Paul shouted out, there, the young 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.920 ones are here. They're going to take it on. Ye 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:51.320 last year, women god year. But we just sat on 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:57.640 dusty hills because we never helped. Also, I have been 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:01.880 refused departments by landlords who not rank with women. I 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:06.960 have been refused full participation in politics. Tomorrow is Women's 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:10.000 Strike Day, the day that women are being asked to 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:15.080 stop typing, stop selling, stop cleaning house, stop doing dishes, 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:20.120 and start demanding equal rights with men, to demand that 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.320 women be given their rightful place. And the pages of 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.719 the Ladies Home Journal, you do you mean by rightful place? 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.640 It is a woman's magazine. It is a woman's magazine. 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.880 And that's the ironic aspect of the whole problem women here. 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.880 There is one woman above middle management, one token woman 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:40.600 out of the four men who control this magazine. Women 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:45.880 here make paltry salaries as secretaries. They're not promoted, they're 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.120 not given their rights. There's a lot of women that 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.520 are really doing men's work, and I really do believe 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:52.400 that they should have the equal rights on the equal 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:56.000 pay that a man does receive. Now, thanks to the 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.960 spirit of equality in the air, and to the work 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.800 of many of my more of four sided sisters, I 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:05.800 no longer accept the sciety's judgment that my group is 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:28.120 second class, So please stop fine. Second wave feminists of 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:32.800 the nineteen sixties like Gloria Steinham and grassroots organizations like 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:37.120 the National Organization for Women picked up where Alice left off, 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.400 convincing political leaders in Congress to consider adding the e 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:47.040 r A to the Constitution. By nineteen seventy, Congress began hearings, 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.600 and in nineteen seventy two, the Equal Rights Amendment, with 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:55.119 support from President Nixon, sailed through. Tonight, after a forty 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:58.880 nine years struggle, a constitutional amendment appears on the way, 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.120 proclaiming once and for all that women have all the 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.839 same rights as that. Other says there was just one hitch, 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:13.040 a seven year time limit for ratification. This sort of 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.680 wrinkle was put into the e r A that there 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:18.800 would be a what they used to refer to as 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.000 the deadline. We don't think of it as that that 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.080 has more of a concrete feeling to it. This was 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.800 a time limit that was not even included in the amendment, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.120 so it's not what states voted on. Time limits are 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.760 not required by the Constitution, but by the nineteen seventies, 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.400 Congress was in the habit of setting these arbitrary deadlines 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.880 for ratification. In fact, the eight amendments preceding the e 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:46.680 r A from the through we're all given time limits, 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:53.360 and we're all ratified. After the e r A S passage, 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:58.480 most Americans supported the amendment, but over time public enthusiasm 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.480 waned thanks to a highly visible and highly coordinated e 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:07.360 r A opposition campaign led by a conservative activist named 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:13.720 Philish Laughly. How do you view the relationship of women 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:18.480 and men? Is it equal? Women should not be equal 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.680 to men. I think under our present system in the 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:26.520 United States, women enjoy a very wonderful status. I think 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:30.600 it's better than equality. I think women would be sacrificing 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.520 many of the good things they now have, and it 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:37.160 would be taking a step downward to go for equality. 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:41.560 Philish Laughly, who was herself a very accomplished woman, uh 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:45.680 felt that women did not need to be that accomplished. 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.040 She was afraid that they would lose things like alimony 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.120 and you know, social security, and they would have to 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.040 go to war, they would have to join the army. 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.200 That would be same, say the picture that was painted 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:02.440 then as Armageddon. Slaughley's whole campaign hinged on the belief 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.720 that the e r A would unravel traditional American values. 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:11.199 In fact, her anti feminist, pro family crusade was one 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:15.000 of the catalysts propelling an evangelical resurgence on the right 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.840 that is still thriving today. And while there's no doubt 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:23.000 Shlaughley helped stop the Equal Rights Amendment, Carol Jenkins says 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.400 she shouldn't get all the credit. I think it was 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:30.040 more the businesses who understood that if they gave women 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.280 equal rights and that would mean equal pay and equal consideration, 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.880 they would have to stop charging women more for insurance 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:43.080 and dry cleaning. To to disparate examples. One of the 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:47.280 reasons that corporate America is so successful is that it's 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:51.760 still generally pays its women less than it pays its meant. 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.640 There was also a feeling amongst some progressive women that 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.720 maybe they didn't need the e r A anyway. We all, 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:04.240 even the women, bought this notion of our being in 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.000 the pipeline, which is the phrase that used to be used, 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:09.280 don't worry about it. When we are in the pipeline 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.760 and at a certain point they'll emerge and be totally equal. 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.760 And we bought into that progress, you know, the first woman, this, 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:20.120 the first woman that. And I think we got lulled 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.800 into thinking that we were making extraordinary progress when in 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:27.079 fact we were still only doing you know, one by one. 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:33.280 After the time limit expired in Democratic leaders continued to 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:37.920 champion and reintroduced the amendment to Congress every year, but 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.520 for decades, for most Americans, the fight for the e 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:47.280 r A was a distant memory. But then in two 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:51.200 thousand fourteen, a group of women led by women's rights 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:54.559 lawyer and activists Jessica new Worth, formed the e r 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.240 A Coalition. When we started, ere A had vanished from 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:02.840 public consideration. Uh so many people thought it had already 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:04.920 been passed. Of course, how could we be a country 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.160 without an Equal Rights Amendment? Uh? And others thought, oh, 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.200 had been defeated years ago, and good thing. Uh. So 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.880 when we came along, our job was to inform the 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:18.000 public that no, it had not been ratified, even though 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:21.440 Congress passed it in nineteen seventy two, and at that 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.960 point five years ago, we still needed three states and 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.000 it seemed an impossibility. So some of what we were 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:32.920 working on was starting all over again, which also seemed incredible, uh, 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.600 knowing what it would take to start from the very beginning. Uh. 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:40.679 And then suddenly, in two seventeen, Nevada, thanks to this 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:46.040 magnificent state legislator Pat Spearman, ratified the Equal Rights Amendment. 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.640 And we were all sitting in the office and looking 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.160 at each other and saying, does that count? And our 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:55.360 lawyers said it counts. Then we began to look around 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.679 to see what other states were that that this could 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.679 happen in. Illinois just took it right up that s 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.040 j r. A Four is adopted. Illinois is now the 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.080 thirty seventh state to ratify the amendment. The night's vote 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.080 was symbolic the country still needs one more state to 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:15.160 ratify it to make it federal law. And that last state, 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:19.240 of course, would be Virginia, which means three states ratifying 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:23.480 in three years, like a beautiful contagion of equality after 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:29.680 no nine seven years, which raises the question why now 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.920 we've gone through this period where we thought, oh, incremental 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:39.320 progress will mean equality in our lifetime, and when I 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:41.080 think a lot of women looked around and said, no, 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.120 it's not going to happen in my lifetime or my 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.720 daughters are probably my granddaughters either that they will be 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:52.760 faced with the same kinds of insane, you know, discriminatory 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:57.560 tactics that have been used through my grandmother's lifetime. So 0:12:57.679 --> 0:12:59.720 I think there was that there was the Me Too movement. 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.920 We of it full credit for an uproar the women's marches, 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.880 you know, that kind of massive gathering. I think women 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:11.040 have said that's it, that's enough, And it's only recently 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.480 that people have begun to understand, hey, wait a minute, 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.480 there's something wrong with our constitution. It's the playbook by 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.200 which this country lives, and women are not in it. 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.200 And until you fix that, uh, you're not going to 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:27.240 fix anything. Congress approved it in nineteen seventy two. By 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.760 two thirds, so we have the thirty eight state. You 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:34.640 know we are there. Coming up, we'll talk with playwright 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:38.679 Heidi Shrek about what the Equal Rights Amendment means to her. 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:53.920 When I was fifteen years old, I would travel the 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:58.360 country giving speeches about the Constitution at American Legion halls 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:02.040 for prize money. Is this was a scheme invented by 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:06.040 my mom to help me pay for college. That's playwright 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:10.120 Heidi Shrek in two thousand nineteen, performing in her acclaimed 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.760 Broadway show What the Constitution Means to Me. I was 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.760 actually able to pay for my entire college education this way. 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:21.880 Thank you, Thank you. It's it was thirty years ago 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.200 when it was a state school, but thank you. A 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.360 few years ago, I was thinking about the Constitution for 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:35.440 various reasons, and I thought it would be interesting to 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.600 go back and see what my fifteen year old self 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.040 loved so much about this document. Because I did. I 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.400 loved it. I was a zealot. I was a true believer. 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.520 The play is funny, poignant, and moving. Over the course 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.120 of an hour and a half, Hiding manages to make 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:55.840 this incredibly dry document incredibly warm, personal, and resident by 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.880 revisiting her fifteen year old self. She reveals just how 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:05.840 complicated and problematic the Constitution is. What I would do 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:10.440 is resurrect the speech and the contest based on what 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:14.240 I remember about myself at fifty, which is why the 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:21.800 Equal Rights Amendment, or lack thereof, is so personal. What 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.120 I wasn't able to put together at that time, I 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:28.360 think was the way it had influenced my life and 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:34.400 the life of my women ancestors, the sort of negative impact, um, 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.760 that our laws had actually had on the lives of 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.160 my mom, my grandma, my great grandma, um, my great 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:44.720 great grandma. And I didn't sort of viscerally start to 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:49.040 put that together until I began making the play. Um. So, 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:53.000 my mom is a feminist. She fought for the e 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.240 r A. I remember I was eleven in two when 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.840 it decided it couldn't be ratified when there weren't enough 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.080 states to ratify. I remember were crying about it, not 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.640 totally understanding that though, and then when I went to 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:07.720 do the contest, I didn't sort of put together that 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:14.160 This document I loved so much, it was part of 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:18.640 the reason my mom was crying. And when I started 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:22.840 to do research for the play. Uh, I began to 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.640 connect those things. So I have this long history of 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:31.040 domestic violence in my family UM and sexual assault. And 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:37.160 when I began to understand the ways our laws and 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.440 this constitution had failed the women in my family and 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.560 seen firsthand the effects that failure had had in my mom, 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.880 who had to grow up in a violent and abusive household, 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:55.680 I started to question the document more deeply and that 0:16:55.800 --> 0:17:00.000 it wasn't as inclusive as you might have originally thought. Yeah, 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:05.080 the protections weren't afforded to everyone. They weren't and are 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.720 not afforded to everyone. And it says in the Fourteenth 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.520 Amendment we all must be treated equally under the law, 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.359 and I took that at face value, and I didn't 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:18.320 understand that that that wasn't happening in practice. And not 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:22.119 only was it not happening in practice, obviously not just 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:27.080 for women, but for many groups of people, immigrants, indigenous peoples, 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.560 all people of color in this country, especially black people. 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.359 I didn't understand that discrimination on the basis of sex 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.720 was not actually prohibited by the document. So, you know, 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:42.080 the Supreme Court came out and has established that um 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.040 that the Fourteenth Amendment does not cover sex in the 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:50.359 way it covers race, religion, and other protection protective groups. 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.520 Real yeah, very famously said, Um, well, the Constitution does 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.040 not require discrimination on the basis of sex, which is 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.720 nice of him to say. Uh, the issue is whether 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.359 it prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex, and he 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.080 said it does not prohibit it. And so there have 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:13.160 been all these decisions that have been made that, from 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.920 my perspective, have enshrined sexism in our laws. And I've 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:21.520 also failed to overturn sexist laws. And it's clear that 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:26.240 we need a constitutional amendment so that the courts have 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:30.480 to be held accountable for overturning these laws or challenging 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:35.080 these laws. Heidi says there are several examples of court 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:39.280 cases that have enshrined sexism into our laws, but there's 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.920 one in particular that hit home for her. The case 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:47.560 of Jessica Gonzalez now Jessica Lenihan versus the Town of 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:51.879 Castle Rock, Colorado. You know the case of Jessica Lenahan, 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:57.159 Jessica Gonzalez, who in two thousand five um took her 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:00.200 case to the Supreme Court. Well, your argument on we're 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:05.879 all four to the town of Castle Wrap versus Jessica Ganzals. 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.280 Mr Eastman, Mr Chief Justice, I may have pleased accord. 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:15.600 What happened here is undeniably tragic. She had had a 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:20.879 restraining order against her violent husband UM. He violated the 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:25.240 restraining order, kidnapped their daughters. She contacted the police UM 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.600 many times, nine times, I believe, went to the station 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.439 twice in person. They laughed at her, told her she 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:34.840 was being silly, refused to enforce the restraining order, and 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:39.639 her husband that night killed their daughters. She sued the 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:43.159 police department for failing to protect them, for failing to 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.360 uh enforce this restraining order, and in fact, Colorado had 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:51.080 just passed a law that required police to enforce these 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:56.840 restraining orders. UM. The police department appealed. The case went 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:58.760 all the way to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:03.720 Court decided that the police department could not be held accountable, 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.160 even though there was a state law saying that they could. UM. 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:11.879 And that is because we don't have an equal rights amendment. 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.440 That's because there was nothing in the constitution that said 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.920 that you could not discriminate on the basis of sex. 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.720 They decided there was no way to hold the police 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:24.320 accountable or to address this larger problem of police not 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:27.919 listening to women when they're in these situations, refusing to 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.080 protect them. The Colorado Law had been enacted in order 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:34.880 to like address this problem uh in police departments, which 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.119 was like the They discovered like all over the country 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.639 that police departments were failing to protect women in this way, 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:41.879 and so the law was an attempt to rectify that, 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.879 and the Supreme Court essentially killed the law. For me, 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.800 that story is very uh personal. I mean, I was 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.200 researching the story of my family and trying to understand 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:57.800 why my grandma Betty did not leave her violent husband. 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:02.320 I was looking into what kind of laws would have 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.639 protected my grandma if she had wanted to take her 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:09.760 kids and run away. What does the constitution say, if anything, 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.320 about women in my grandma's situation. And when I was 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:18.000 trying to understand that, I found Jessica's story. I listened 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:22.159 to her case. Um, we've since become friends, and I 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:26.880 I understood in a much deeper way why my grandma 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:30.240 chose to stay. The fact is, and this is still 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.479 true in this country, that the moment a woman decides 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.400 to leave a relationship like that is the moment her 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.879 life is in the most danger. And that's because we 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:41.760 don't have laws that protect women in these situations. We 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.680 don't have adequate laws. How would the A. R A 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:49.119 rectify that? Heidi? So, if we had an equal Rights Amendment, 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:54.040 then the Supreme Court would have to say a. Scalia 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:58.520 was unwilling to say that the Constitution of the United 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:02.720 States prohibits to discrimination on the basis of sex, and 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:05.960 what this police department was doing was discrimination on the 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.000 basis of sex. They were not listening to a woman, 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:13.280 they were dismissing her, they were calling her ridiculous. They 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:19.040 they didn't have an understanding of what circumstances are like 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:22.600 for women in in violent relationships. Um. So, it would 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:25.119 I think, in her case, have allowed the law to 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:31.159 stand for one thing. Um And it would have provided 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:33.640 a way for people to take action on a state 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.680 level to say, like, let's let's address this problem of 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:42.199 of sexism and police departments, Like let's address the fact that, um, 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:46.680 these cases are often misunderstood and therefore bad policing happens. 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:51.040 What's the difference between the Fourteenth Amendment and the Equal 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:59.159 Rights Amendment. Uh that's a wonderful question. Uh. So the 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:03.359 fourteen Amendment says no state shall deny to any person 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:07.080 within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. So 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:13.600 that's fourteen Amendment, Section one class. The only reason I 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:15.879 know that is because he has been trying to figure 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:24.960 that out. Um so, so when that include women? Uh? Ideally? Yeah, 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:27.080 And actually, you know, it's a really interesting clause too, 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:30.720 because it uses the word person. Uh, not citizen or 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:33.480 man or man or, but citizen, which means also that 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:39.280 if you are here as an undocumented immigrant, it's it 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.080 would seem that the text is saying you almost you 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:45.560 must also be treated equally under the law because of person, 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:48.040 because of what you're a person, and other parts of 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:52.400 the amendment used the word citizen. Um so, yes, so 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:56.280 that that is the argument people make. Uh, And I 0:23:56.320 --> 0:23:58.359 get the argument if you read the I mean, I 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:00.160 think that's what I thought when I was fifteen too. 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:03.439 If you read that amendment, it seems very clear, no person, 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:05.920 I'm a person. You're a person. But that has not 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:10.280 actually played out in the laws or in the decisions 0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:12.879 made by the Supreme Court. In addition, heidi to helping 0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:16.840 people like Jessica Lenahan. What other ways would the e 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:23.800 R A protect and ergo help women. Having that amendment 0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:27.800 in our constitution would go a long way towards supporting 0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:31.000 legal protections like across the board having to do with 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:35.280 equal pay, having to do with UM, maternal mortality, and 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:37.879 the health crisis for women in this country, having to 0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:44.120 do with paid parental leave UM obviously UM. Making sure 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:47.160 that a woman's right to control over our own body, 0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:49.080 to the right to have an abortion, the right to 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:54.160 get birth control UM. It would strengthen all of those protections, 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:58.000 either strengthen them or allow people to pass better laws 0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:02.840 UM to protect women in these situations. As you know 0:25:03.119 --> 0:25:08.200 the UM, we have the highest maternal mortality rate UM 0:25:08.240 --> 0:25:12.239 of any westernized nation UH, and it's going up. And 0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:15.800 having a constitutional amendment would allow us to have laws 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:18.600 UH that could stick. It means you could pass a 0:25:18.640 --> 0:25:22.080 lot to try to address that problem and not then 0:25:22.119 --> 0:25:24.879 eventually have it overturned by the Supreme Court. I also 0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:28.560 think it has the potential to change attitudes, because often 0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:37.119 laws happen before there's a real shift in public perception 0:25:37.200 --> 0:25:40.680 and attitudes. Absolutely, you saw that in the Civil rights movement. 0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:45.680 For example, we needed Brown versus Board of Education UH 0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:49.000 to end segregation in this country. Like if we had 0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:54.879 just waited for people to change their minds or for example, yes, 0:25:55.359 --> 0:26:00.240 I think that would have taken much longer to happen 0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:04.280 than it did. When we come back Heidi Shrek and 0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:07.919 Carol Jenkins on what happens next with the e r A. 0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:31.679 Is this finally the era for the e r A. 0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:35.639 Just because it's been ratified by the necessary thirty eight 0:26:35.760 --> 0:26:39.600 states doesn't mean the fight is over. Once again, here's 0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:43.679 Carol Jenkins to help us understand what comes next. The 0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:45.320 first thing that will happen is that we will have 0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:50.160 two years the waiting time before it's enacted. There will 0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:55.080 be legal cases, a really strong, vibrant legal life that 0:26:55.160 --> 0:26:57.919 the Equal Rights Amendment will have to tackle, you know, 0:26:58.080 --> 0:27:01.280 various things that have come up, like the time limit. Uh. 0:27:01.480 --> 0:27:04.720 The r A coalition has been working for years on 0:27:04.720 --> 0:27:08.440 on getting the time limit removed. We have the votes 0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:11.040 in the House. We are also working in the Senate 0:27:11.440 --> 0:27:15.320