1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Next Question with Katie Kuric is a production of I 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Katie Couric Media. Hi everyone, I'm Katie 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Couric and welcome to Next Question. On this episode, we 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: really still have to fight to be considered equal, and 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: we've had enough of this, you know, we just really 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: have to take this and move forward. Can you believe 7 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: the battle over the Equal Rights Amendment is still going on? 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: This is the radical move that will finally set equality 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: into motion. A century is enough. The proposed addition to 10 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: the Constitution says, quote equality of rights under the law 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: shall not be denied or abridged by the United States 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 1: or by any state on account of sex. End quote. 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: This one sentence, written all the way back in is 14 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 1: that the heart of a national constitutional debate that may 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: now finally be nearing its end. Virginia is for e 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: r A lovers a lot of great things. This is Zion, who, 17 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: along with her mom, Lily Bernard, an artist and activist 18 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: in l A, made this p s A a year 19 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: ago to spread the word that Virginia could be the 20 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: last state needed to ratify the e R A. She 21 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: was just ten. The next great things to come out 22 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: of Virginia is the Equal Rights Comming first approved by 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: Congress back in nineteen seventy two when I was fifteen, 24 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: the e r A has been dormant for the better 25 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: part of four decades, just three state shy of ratification. 26 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: But now, thanks to the tireless work of e r 27 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: A activists and a whole new generation of voices like Zions, 28 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: the amendment achieved its goal on January. All those in 29 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: favor of the resolution that the resolution passed a century 30 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: after women secured their right to vote in the US, 31 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: for Gino became today the crucial thirty eight state to 32 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: ratify the two Equal Rights Amendment. The passage marked a 33 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: historic moment for the e r A, which was written 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: eyest nine nays, forty one abstention zero. For the women 35 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: of Virginia and the women of America, the resolution has 36 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: finally So what does the passage of the e r 37 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: A mean for the women of America and when will 38 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: it actually take effect? Later we'll hear from playwright Heidi 39 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: Shrek of the Tony nominated play what the Constitution means 40 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: to me? But first we turned to Carol Jenkins, the 41 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: co president and CEO of the e r A Coalition, 42 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,679 Speaker 1: doubt us answer my next question, does the e r 43 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: A actually have a shot this time? And why in 44 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: do we still need it? We always think Ellis Paul 45 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: a really courageous, smart, determined woman for giving women the 46 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: right to vote. She was at the head of that. 47 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: Alice Paul is a critical figure in the fight for 48 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: women's equality. Born in New Jersey in eighteen five, Alice 49 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: was ahead of her time. Her parents embraced gender equality 50 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: and education for women. She herself earned multiple degrees, including 51 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: a law degree and a pH d. In the early 52 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: twentieth century, she became one of the most vocal leaders 53 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: of the suffrage movement, putting pressure on Congress and President 54 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: Woodrow Wilson to give women the right to vote, which 55 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: they finally did with the Nineteenth Amendment, passed in nineteen 56 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: nineteen and ratified in nineteen twenty. When she got that 57 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: Nineteenth Amendment, she said, you know what, we need one 58 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: more step, one more insurance for equality, and that was 59 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: to amend the Constitution where the drafters deliberately left women out. 60 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: It was Alice Paul her elf who wrote the very 61 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: first version of the Equal Rights Amendment. The National Women's 62 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,559 Speaker 1: Party proposed it in nineteen twenty three and two Republican 63 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: senators introduced it to Congress. Year after year thanks to Alice, 64 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: the e r A is introduced into every new session 65 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: of Congress, but year after year it fails. From three 66 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: to nineteen seventy two, that fifty year chunk, Alice Paul 67 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: and her colleagues were always working for it. The groups 68 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: would get small and they would get large. And when 69 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: some of our colleagues met up with her in the 70 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, apparently Alice Paul shouted out, there, the young 71 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: ones are here. They're going to take it on. Ye 72 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: last year, women god year. But we just sat on 73 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: dusty hills because we never helped. Also, I have been 74 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: refused departments by landlords who not rank with women. I 75 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: have been refused full participation in politics. Tomorrow is Women's 76 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: Strike Day, the day that women are being asked to 77 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: stop typing, stop selling, stop cleaning house, stop doing dishes, 78 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: and start demanding equal rights with men, to demand that 79 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: women be given their rightful place. And the pages of 80 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: the Ladies Home Journal, you do you mean by rightful place? 81 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: It is a woman's magazine. It is a woman's magazine. 82 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: And that's the ironic aspect of the whole problem women here. 83 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: There is one woman above middle management, one token woman 84 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: out of the four men who control this magazine. Women 85 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: here make paltry salaries as secretaries. They're not promoted, they're 86 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: not given their rights. There's a lot of women that 87 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: are really doing men's work, and I really do believe 88 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: that they should have the equal rights on the equal 89 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: pay that a man does receive. Now, thanks to the 90 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: spirit of equality in the air, and to the work 91 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: of many of my more of four sided sisters, I 92 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: no longer accept the sciety's judgment that my group is 93 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: second class, So please stop fine. Second wave feminists of 94 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties like Gloria Steinham and grassroots organizations like 95 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: the National Organization for Women picked up where Alice left off, 96 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: convincing political leaders in Congress to consider adding the e 97 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: r A to the Constitution. By nineteen seventy, Congress began hearings, 98 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: and in nineteen seventy two, the Equal Rights Amendment, with 99 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,119 Speaker 1: support from President Nixon, sailed through. Tonight, after a forty 100 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: nine years struggle, a constitutional amendment appears on the way, 101 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: proclaiming once and for all that women have all the 102 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: same rights as that. Other says there was just one hitch, 103 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: a seven year time limit for ratification. This sort of 104 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: wrinkle was put into the e r A that there 105 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: would be a what they used to refer to as 106 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: the deadline. We don't think of it as that that 107 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: has more of a concrete feeling to it. This was 108 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: a time limit that was not even included in the amendment, 109 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: so it's not what states voted on. Time limits are 110 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: not required by the Constitution, but by the nineteen seventies, 111 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: Congress was in the habit of setting these arbitrary deadlines 112 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: for ratification. In fact, the eight amendments preceding the e 113 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: r A from the through we're all given time limits, 114 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: and we're all ratified. After the e r A S passage, 115 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: most Americans supported the amendment, but over time public enthusiasm 116 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: waned thanks to a highly visible and highly coordinated e 117 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: r A opposition campaign led by a conservative activist named 118 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: Philish Laughly. How do you view the relationship of women 119 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: and men? Is it equal? Women should not be equal 120 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: to men. I think under our present system in the 121 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: United States, women enjoy a very wonderful status. I think 122 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: it's better than equality. I think women would be sacrificing 123 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: many of the good things they now have, and it 124 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: would be taking a step downward to go for equality. 125 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: Philish Laughly, who was herself a very accomplished woman, uh 126 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: felt that women did not need to be that accomplished. 127 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: She was afraid that they would lose things like alimony 128 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: and you know, social security, and they would have to 129 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: go to war, they would have to join the army. 130 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: That would be same, say the picture that was painted 131 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: then as Armageddon. Slaughley's whole campaign hinged on the belief 132 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: that the e r A would unravel traditional American values. 133 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: In fact, her anti feminist, pro family crusade was one 134 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: of the catalysts propelling an evangelical resurgence on the right 135 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: that is still thriving today. And while there's no doubt 136 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: Shlaughley helped stop the Equal Rights Amendment, Carol Jenkins says 137 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: she shouldn't get all the credit. I think it was 138 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: more the businesses who understood that if they gave women 139 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: equal rights and that would mean equal pay and equal consideration, 140 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: they would have to stop charging women more for insurance 141 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: and dry cleaning. To to disparate examples. One of the 142 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: reasons that corporate America is so successful is that it's 143 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: still generally pays its women less than it pays its meant. 144 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: There was also a feeling amongst some progressive women that 145 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: maybe they didn't need the e r A anyway. We all, 146 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: even the women, bought this notion of our being in 147 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: the pipeline, which is the phrase that used to be used, 148 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: don't worry about it. When we are in the pipeline 149 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: and at a certain point they'll emerge and be totally equal. 150 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: And we bought into that progress, you know, the first woman, this, 151 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: the first woman that. And I think we got lulled 152 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: into thinking that we were making extraordinary progress when in 153 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: fact we were still only doing you know, one by one. 154 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: After the time limit expired in Democratic leaders continued to 155 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: champion and reintroduced the amendment to Congress every year, but 156 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: for decades, for most Americans, the fight for the e 157 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: r A was a distant memory. But then in two 158 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, a group of women led by women's rights 159 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: lawyer and activists Jessica new Worth, formed the e r 160 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: A Coalition. When we started, ere A had vanished from 161 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: public consideration. Uh so many people thought it had already 162 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: been passed. Of course, how could we be a country 163 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: without an Equal Rights Amendment? Uh? And others thought, oh, 164 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: had been defeated years ago, and good thing. Uh. So 165 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: when we came along, our job was to inform the 166 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: public that no, it had not been ratified, even though 167 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: Congress passed it in nineteen seventy two, and at that 168 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: point five years ago, we still needed three states and 169 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: it seemed an impossibility. So some of what we were 170 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: working on was starting all over again, which also seemed incredible, uh, 171 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: knowing what it would take to start from the very beginning. Uh. 172 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: And then suddenly, in two seventeen, Nevada, thanks to this 173 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: magnificent state legislator Pat Spearman, ratified the Equal Rights Amendment. 174 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: And we were all sitting in the office and looking 175 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: at each other and saying, does that count? And our 176 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: lawyers said it counts. Then we began to look around 177 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: to see what other states were that that this could 178 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: happen in. Illinois just took it right up that s 179 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: j r. A Four is adopted. Illinois is now the 180 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: thirty seventh state to ratify the amendment. The night's vote 181 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: was symbolic the country still needs one more state to 182 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: ratify it to make it federal law. And that last state, 183 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: of course, would be Virginia, which means three states ratifying 184 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: in three years, like a beautiful contagion of equality after 185 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: no nine seven years, which raises the question why now 186 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: we've gone through this period where we thought, oh, incremental 187 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: progress will mean equality in our lifetime, and when I 188 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: think a lot of women looked around and said, no, 189 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: it's not going to happen in my lifetime or my 190 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: daughters are probably my granddaughters either that they will be 191 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: faced with the same kinds of insane, you know, discriminatory 192 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: tactics that have been used through my grandmother's lifetime. So 193 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: I think there was that there was the Me Too movement. 194 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: We of it full credit for an uproar the women's marches, 195 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: you know, that kind of massive gathering. I think women 196 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: have said that's it, that's enough, And it's only recently 197 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: that people have begun to understand, hey, wait a minute, 198 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: there's something wrong with our constitution. It's the playbook by 199 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: which this country lives, and women are not in it. 200 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: And until you fix that, uh, you're not going to 201 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: fix anything. Congress approved it in nineteen seventy two. By 202 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: two thirds, so we have the thirty eight state. You 203 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: know we are there. Coming up, we'll talk with playwright 204 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: Heidi Shrek about what the Equal Rights Amendment means to her. 205 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: When I was fifteen years old, I would travel the 206 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: country giving speeches about the Constitution at American Legion halls 207 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: for prize money. Is this was a scheme invented by 208 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: my mom to help me pay for college. That's playwright 209 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: Heidi Shrek in two thousand nineteen, performing in her acclaimed 210 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: Broadway show What the Constitution Means to Me. I was 211 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: actually able to pay for my entire college education this way. 212 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. It's it was thirty years ago 213 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: when it was a state school, but thank you. A 214 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: few years ago, I was thinking about the Constitution for 215 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: various reasons, and I thought it would be interesting to 216 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: go back and see what my fifteen year old self 217 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: loved so much about this document. Because I did. I 218 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: loved it. I was a zealot. I was a true believer. 219 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: The play is funny, poignant, and moving. Over the course 220 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: of an hour and a half, Hiding manages to make 221 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: this incredibly dry document incredibly warm, personal, and resident by 222 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: revisiting her fifteen year old self. She reveals just how 223 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: complicated and problematic the Constitution is. What I would do 224 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: is resurrect the speech and the contest based on what 225 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: I remember about myself at fifty, which is why the 226 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: Equal Rights Amendment, or lack thereof, is so personal. What 227 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: I wasn't able to put together at that time, I 228 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: think was the way it had influenced my life and 229 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: the life of my women ancestors, the sort of negative impact, um, 230 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: that our laws had actually had on the lives of 231 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: my mom, my grandma, my great grandma, um, my great 232 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: great grandma. And I didn't sort of viscerally start to 233 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: put that together until I began making the play. Um. So, 234 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: my mom is a feminist. She fought for the e 235 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: r A. I remember I was eleven in two when 236 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: it decided it couldn't be ratified when there weren't enough 237 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: states to ratify. I remember were crying about it, not 238 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: totally understanding that though, and then when I went to 239 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: do the contest, I didn't sort of put together that 240 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: This document I loved so much, it was part of 241 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: the reason my mom was crying. And when I started 242 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: to do research for the play. Uh, I began to 243 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: connect those things. So I have this long history of 244 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: domestic violence in my family UM and sexual assault. And 245 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: when I began to understand the ways our laws and 246 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: this constitution had failed the women in my family and 247 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: seen firsthand the effects that failure had had in my mom, 248 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: who had to grow up in a violent and abusive household, 249 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: I started to question the document more deeply and that 250 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't as inclusive as you might have originally thought. Yeah, 251 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: the protections weren't afforded to everyone. They weren't and are 252 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: not afforded to everyone. And it says in the Fourteenth 253 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: Amendment we all must be treated equally under the law, 254 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: and I took that at face value, and I didn't 255 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: understand that that that wasn't happening in practice. And not 256 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: only was it not happening in practice, obviously not just 257 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: for women, but for many groups of people, immigrants, indigenous peoples, 258 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: all people of color in this country, especially black people. 259 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: I didn't understand that discrimination on the basis of sex 260 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: was not actually prohibited by the document. So, you know, 261 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court came out and has established that um 262 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: that the Fourteenth Amendment does not cover sex in the 263 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: way it covers race, religion, and other protection protective groups. 264 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: Real yeah, very famously said, Um, well, the Constitution does 265 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: not require discrimination on the basis of sex, which is 266 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: nice of him to say. Uh, the issue is whether 267 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: it prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex, and he 268 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: said it does not prohibit it. And so there have 269 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: been all these decisions that have been made that, from 270 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: my perspective, have enshrined sexism in our laws. And I've 271 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: also failed to overturn sexist laws. And it's clear that 272 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: we need a constitutional amendment so that the courts have 273 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: to be held accountable for overturning these laws or challenging 274 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: these laws. Heidi says there are several examples of court 275 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: cases that have enshrined sexism into our laws, but there's 276 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: one in particular that hit home for her. The case 277 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: of Jessica Gonzalez now Jessica Lenihan versus the Town of 278 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: Castle Rock, Colorado. You know the case of Jessica Lenahan, 279 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 1: Jessica Gonzalez, who in two thousand five um took her 280 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: case to the Supreme Court. Well, your argument on we're 281 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: all four to the town of Castle Wrap versus Jessica Ganzals. 282 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: Mr Eastman, Mr Chief Justice, I may have pleased accord. 283 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: What happened here is undeniably tragic. She had had a 284 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: restraining order against her violent husband UM. He violated the 285 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: restraining order, kidnapped their daughters. She contacted the police UM 286 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: many times, nine times, I believe, went to the station 287 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: twice in person. They laughed at her, told her she 288 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: was being silly, refused to enforce the restraining order, and 289 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: her husband that night killed their daughters. She sued the 290 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: police department for failing to protect them, for failing to 291 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: uh enforce this restraining order, and in fact, Colorado had 292 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: just passed a law that required police to enforce these 293 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: restraining orders. UM. The police department appealed. The case went 294 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: all the way to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme 295 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: Court decided that the police department could not be held accountable, 296 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: even though there was a state law saying that they could. UM. 297 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: And that is because we don't have an equal rights amendment. 298 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: That's because there was nothing in the constitution that said 299 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: that you could not discriminate on the basis of sex. 300 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: They decided there was no way to hold the police 301 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: accountable or to address this larger problem of police not 302 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: listening to women when they're in these situations, refusing to 303 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: protect them. The Colorado Law had been enacted in order 304 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: to like address this problem uh in police departments, which 305 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: was like the They discovered like all over the country 306 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: that police departments were failing to protect women in this way, 307 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: and so the law was an attempt to rectify that, 308 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 1: and the Supreme Court essentially killed the law. For me, 309 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: that story is very uh personal. I mean, I was 310 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: researching the story of my family and trying to understand 311 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: why my grandma Betty did not leave her violent husband. 312 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: I was looking into what kind of laws would have 313 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 1: protected my grandma if she had wanted to take her 314 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: kids and run away. What does the constitution say, if anything, 315 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: about women in my grandma's situation. And when I was 316 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: trying to understand that, I found Jessica's story. I listened 317 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: to her case. Um, we've since become friends, and I 318 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 1: I understood in a much deeper way why my grandma 319 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: chose to stay. The fact is, and this is still 320 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 1: true in this country, that the moment a woman decides 321 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: to leave a relationship like that is the moment her 322 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: life is in the most danger. And that's because we 323 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: don't have laws that protect women in these situations. We 324 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: don't have adequate laws. How would the A. R A 325 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 1: rectify that? Heidi? So, if we had an equal Rights Amendment, 326 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: then the Supreme Court would have to say a. Scalia 327 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: was unwilling to say that the Constitution of the United 328 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: States prohibits to discrimination on the basis of sex, and 329 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: what this police department was doing was discrimination on the 330 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: basis of sex. They were not listening to a woman, 331 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: they were dismissing her, they were calling her ridiculous. They 332 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: they didn't have an understanding of what circumstances are like 333 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: for women in in violent relationships. Um. So, it would 334 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: I think, in her case, have allowed the law to 335 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: stand for one thing. Um And it would have provided 336 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: a way for people to take action on a state 337 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: level to say, like, let's let's address this problem of 338 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: of sexism and police departments, Like let's address the fact that, um, 339 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: these cases are often misunderstood and therefore bad policing happens. 340 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: What's the difference between the Fourteenth Amendment and the Equal 341 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: Rights Amendment. Uh that's a wonderful question. Uh. So the 342 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: fourteen Amendment says no state shall deny to any person 343 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. So 344 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: that's fourteen Amendment, Section one class. The only reason I 345 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: know that is because he has been trying to figure 346 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: that out. Um so, so when that include women? Uh? Ideally? Yeah, 347 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: And actually, you know, it's a really interesting clause too, 348 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: because it uses the word person. Uh, not citizen or 349 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: man or man or, but citizen, which means also that 350 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: if you are here as an undocumented immigrant, it's it 351 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: would seem that the text is saying you almost you 352 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: must also be treated equally under the law because of person, 353 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: because of what you're a person, and other parts of 354 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: the amendment used the word citizen. Um so, yes, so 355 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: that that is the argument people make. Uh, And I 356 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: get the argument if you read the I mean, I 357 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 1: think that's what I thought when I was fifteen too. 358 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: If you read that amendment, it seems very clear, no person, 359 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: I'm a person. You're a person. But that has not 360 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: actually played out in the laws or in the decisions 361 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: made by the Supreme Court. In addition, heidi to helping 362 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: people like Jessica Lenahan. What other ways would the e 363 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: R A protect and ergo help women. Having that amendment 364 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: in our constitution would go a long way towards supporting 365 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: legal protections like across the board having to do with 366 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: equal pay, having to do with UM, maternal mortality, and 367 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: the health crisis for women in this country, having to 368 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: do with paid parental leave UM obviously UM. Making sure 369 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: that a woman's right to control over our own body, 370 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: to the right to have an abortion, the right to 371 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: get birth control UM. It would strengthen all of those protections, 372 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: either strengthen them or allow people to pass better laws 373 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: UM to protect women in these situations. As you know 374 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: the UM, we have the highest maternal mortality rate UM 375 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,239 Speaker 1: of any westernized nation UH, and it's going up. And 376 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: having a constitutional amendment would allow us to have laws 377 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: UH that could stick. It means you could pass a 378 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: lot to try to address that problem and not then 379 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: eventually have it overturned by the Supreme Court. I also 380 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: think it has the potential to change attitudes, because often 381 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: laws happen before there's a real shift in public perception 382 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: and attitudes. Absolutely, you saw that in the Civil rights movement. 383 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: For example, we needed Brown versus Board of Education UH 384 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: to end segregation in this country. Like if we had 385 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: just waited for people to change their minds or for example, yes, 386 00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: I think that would have taken much longer to happen 387 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: than it did. When we come back Heidi Shrek and 388 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: Carol Jenkins on what happens next with the e r A. 389 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: Is this finally the era for the e r A. 390 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: Just because it's been ratified by the necessary thirty eight 391 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: states doesn't mean the fight is over. Once again, here's 392 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: Carol Jenkins to help us understand what comes next. The 393 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: first thing that will happen is that we will have 394 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: two years the waiting time before it's enacted. There will 395 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: be legal cases, a really strong, vibrant legal life that 396 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,919 Speaker 1: the Equal Rights Amendment will have to tackle, you know, 397 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: various things that have come up, like the time limit. Uh. 398 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: The r A coalition has been working for years on 399 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: on getting the time limit removed. We have the votes 400 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: in the House. We are also working in the Senate 401 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: with Senator Ben Cardon and with Lisa Maurkowski, a Democrat 402 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: and a Republican who both support the e r A 403 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: and are working to remove that time limit in the Senate. 404 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: But the time limit is just the beginning. While an 405 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: overwhelming majority of Americans support the Equal Rights Amendment. Conservative opponents, 406 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: worried mainly about the e r a s effect on abortion, 407 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: are already fighting. In fact, five states have voted to 408 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: resent their ratification of the r A. Five states have 409 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: tried to rescind. Our legal team tells us that it's 410 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: not possible that you cannot have a subsequent body undo 411 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: what a previous body has done. So legally, we think 412 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: we're safe there. But there are three states who have 413 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: filed a lawsuit against the head librarian because it is 414 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: the archivists job as a strange as it seems nothing personal, 415 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: but that the head of librarian is the one who 416 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: certifies ratifications of amendments, and so uh, they have filed 417 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: a suit against the archivists, saying that he cannot assert 418 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: that Virginia is as a ratified state. But then a 419 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: pro equality group filed a dueling suit, and then the 420 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: Department of Justice weighed in, effectively siding with conservative states, 421 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: saying the archivists can't verify the amendment because the time 422 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: limit had passed. I know, stay with me, people. All 423 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: of which is to say, the next steps for the 424 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: e r A are complicated, legally, fraught, and will likely 425 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: go all the way up to the Supreme Court, but 426 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: supporters say they're ready. We have colleagues who have been 427 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: waiting for that Supreme Court hearing for years and then 428 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: and are ready to to engage in that. So ultimately 429 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: we will win this because the women of America deserve 430 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: equality and this is the way to get it. When 431 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: Heidi and I talked about the laundry list of continued 432 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: hurdles the e r A now faces, she was also 433 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: optimistic that the amendment would ultimately be a part of 434 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: the constitution she loved so much. Clearly, there's great political 435 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: will behind it. There have been various polls taken and 436 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: the amount of Americans who support and Equal Rights Amendment 437 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,719 Speaker 1: is always in the like or higher. And frankly, if 438 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: we had to start over, I think we could do it. 439 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,959 Speaker 1: I imagine that, like every state now could take up 440 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: the mantle and try to pass it again if that's 441 00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: what we needed to do. But I think that, like 442 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: the there's there's momentum. I feel like we're at in 443 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: a moment in our country's history when we understand that 444 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: things have to change. Uh well on so in so 445 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,479 Speaker 1: many ways, but we understand that um, that things have 446 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: to change for for women culturally and legally in this country. 447 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: That it's time. You're pregnant with twins this spring, which 448 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,719 Speaker 1: is so exciting. So do you feel an even greater 449 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: sense of urgency to usher in some of these changes 450 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: that many women have been waiting for for so long? 451 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: H Yes, I do, I do. I UM, so I'm 452 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: pregnant with girls, and uh, I do feel I do. 453 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: I mean I felt a sense of urgency already. But 454 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: I really want them. I really want them to be 455 00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: born into a world or to grow up in a 456 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: world in which, um, they know they are valued by 457 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: their country, by the legal system, by the culture. UM. 458 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: I want them to be able to open a constitution 459 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: and look and see that there protected there um. And 460 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: I want actually I sort of feel out on both sides. 461 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: I want my mom to see that before she dies, 462 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: and I want my girls to grow up in a 463 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: world in which that's true. And I think I think 464 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: that's the other thing about the Amendment is like simply 465 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: on a symbolic level, it's really important, Like it's crucial 466 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: that a girl or woman, or mother or grandmother or 467 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: a person could look in this document and say I'm 468 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: represented here. Um, yeah, that's what I want. Meanwhile, what 469 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: is Carol Jenkins want to see? I wish as Paul 470 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,239 Speaker 1: we're here. I'm giving her a heavenly hug. Thank you 471 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: for starting this rolling, Shirley Chisholm, and all of the 472 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: people who worked on this endlessly. Uh and you know, 473 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: I'm hoping that we'll be able to celebrate a final, 474 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: final victory for for them as well as for every 475 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: girl in America. And that does it for this week's episode. 476 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: Thanks so much everyone for listening. We hope they've provided 477 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: you with some information and context to help you better 478 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: understand the e r A and the constitutional fight for equality. 479 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: There's gonna be an awful lot happening around the e 480 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: r A in the coming months, maybe even years, but 481 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: I hope we can ultimately see those twenty four words 482 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: make their way into the two hundred and thirty three 483 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: year old piece of parchment that's the foundation of our democracy. 484 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: As Alex P. Keaton once said, you say you are 485 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: A I say y e s. But for now, keep 486 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: up with Next Question second season by subscribing on Apple Podcast, 487 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, or wherever you get your 488 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: favorite shows and we hope we're one of them, and 489 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: if you're looking for more context on the day's biggest headlines, 490 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: subscribe to our daily morning newsletter, wake Up Call, at 491 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: Katie Currek dot com. You can also follow me, of course, 492 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: on your go to social media feed. Until Next Time 493 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: and My Next Question, I'm Katie Couric. Next Question with 494 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: Katie Couric is a production of I Heart Radio and 495 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: Katie Currik Media. The executive producers are Katie Currek, Courtney Litz, 496 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: and Tyler Klang. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Our 497 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: show producer is Bethan Macaluso. The associate producers are Emily 498 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: Pinto and Derek Clements. Editing by Derrek Clements, Dylan Fagin 499 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: and Lowell Berlante, mixing by Dylan Fagin. Our researcher is 500 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: Gabriel Loser. For more information on today's episode, go to 501 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: Katie Kurik dot com and follow us on Twitter and 502 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: Instagram at Katie Currek. For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, 503 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 504 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.