WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Michele Miscavige 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:17.279 Thinking sideways. I don't stories of things we simply don't 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:22.080 know the answer too. Well. Hey there, and welcome again 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:27.120 to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Steve of course, 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:32.320 joined by and I don't know. I just feel like 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:38.640 I have to imitate him sometimes. Oh the deep boys. Okay, okay, 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:42.200 I'll be high pitched from now. Okay, okay, on I'll 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:46.639 go low. Okay. Well, today we've we've of course, got 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.839 another bit of a mystery for you. And what we're 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.680 gonna talk about is we're going to talk about the 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:58.920 story of Michelle Shelley Miss Cabbage. Michelle is the wife 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:03.120 of David Miscabbage, who you may know. That name you 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:05.920 may not. You might not recognize it because that's not 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.880 how a lot of people pronounce it too. Yeah, Mscovige, 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.120 I've seen or her in Miss Cabage, So I just 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.000 kind of chose when it ran with it because that's 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:20.000 what Ted Copple used. Uh Well. David Miscavage is the 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:25.319 current chairman of the Board of Religious Technology Center of 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:29.640 the Church of Scientology, So for all intentsive purposes, David's 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:34.520 Miscabbage is the leader of the Church of Scientology. Michelle Miscavage, 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:37.560 of course, being the wife of the head of this 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:42.800 church is a fairly well known figure, seen publicly and 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.600 known by members of the church, and she was very 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:52.360 active up until August of two thousand and seven when 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:58.520 she completely dropped off the radar and essentially disappeared from 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:04.160 the public eye. So she's taking a sabbatical. In other words, honestly, 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:10.520 not nobody. Nobody'll say anything an unsolved mystery Exactually, uh, 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:12.600 there there's a couple of things that I want to 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:16.480 cover first before we get into the story. First of 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.120 which is I want to send out a big thank 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.360 you to Aubrey who sent the story into us. Uh. 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.720 This really was one of those ones where I just 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.400 went down the rabbit hole because I'm talking. I've been 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.560 doing that a lot lately, I really have. It's it's 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:35.200 a it's a bad personality quirk. I guess you just 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.720 like clicking on links. That's all it is. And the 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:40.320 thing about it is, when you're dealing with the Church 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:45.399 of Scientology, there's a lot a lot there's an interesting topic. Yeah, 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:47.799 well it it is. And that's kind of the second 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.520 thing I want to talk about here is that this 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:54.760 story deals with the Church of Scientology and why we're 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:58.360 going to discuss how the church works and some of 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:04.440 its practices. That's in no way reflective of any feelings 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.720 or personal beliefs towards it or anything like that. I mean, honestly, 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:11.680 I don't understand the Church of Science. I don't understand 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:16.720 any churches though, so that's I'm I'm not a religious individual, 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.360 so you know, these faith based systems, I just I 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:24.440 can't really wrap my head around. So what we talk 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:29.520 about here is going to be accounting and information that 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.359 we have found through our research, and there's there's no 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.400 personal malice or anything like that. This is just trying 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:40.040 to lay out facts as much as we can, and 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.600 also we don't want to alienate Tom Cruise, who's one 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.960 of our listeners. We're pretty sure. Yeah, of course, you 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:47.960 know you said this guy named Tom who sends us 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.520 links and stuff, So I'm assuming it's Tom Cruise. Tom, 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:57.720 it is a safe bat. Yeah. Before we get into 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:02.400 the story of Michelle, I do need to give a 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:07.120 little bit of background on the Church of Scientology. Most 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:11.120 people probably know something about the church or some information 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.120 about the church. I mean, there's obviously Joe alluded to. 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:19.880 They've got some pretty famous members. Tom cruise. Uh, Kirsty Alley, 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:25.760 what's the other Yeah, I think back to back back 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.040 back is a member of the church. I didn't realize that. 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.799 I'm pretty sure. Again, I've gonna be wrong. I don't remember. 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.640 I'm pretty sure though. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to say, 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.320 but but there is a ton of information out there 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:46.400 how their ideology and their history and the organization. It's 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.440 all important and it plays a role in the story. 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:51.640 So we've kind of got to do a little bit 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:54.839 of backwork before we actually get to the story of Michelle. 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:59.120 It's also very well preserved. It's a modern religion for 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:02.039 all intents and purp. This is so, you know, information, 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:05.279 accurate information about origins and things like that are pretty 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:09.520 pretty readily available, which is kind of nice. Actually, it's 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:13.200 not one that you're like, well, maybe this thing happened, 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.480 and I guess we you know, to be part of it, 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:17.599 you have to believe it. But also maybe it didn't 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:19.880 and we don't have any good records or anything, so 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:22.400 I don't know. And the cool thing about it is 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:26.320 for future of archaeologists and anthropologists or whatever you want 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.000 to call them, is that even after all this has 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:31.200 been lost, you'll be able to dig up some crips 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.320 that have a lot of stuff inscribed on them, the 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.400 entire fact they're describing. You weren't going to talk about 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.159 this later, were you? A little bit? But go ahead, 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.359 it's fine, continue on now. The church is actually describing 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.720 every word that L. Ron Hubbard ever wrote on the 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:50.039 steel plates, casing them in in what titanium cases, and 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:54.200 then putting them in underground bunkers. So someday, actually somebody 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:55.920 is going to dig that stuff up and negative think 0:05:56.000 --> 0:06:00.160 this is what we all believed. It's quite possible. Interesting, Well, 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:05.640 let's let's go into some of the beliefs of Scientology. 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:09.080 As Joe alluded to a little bit there. H. L. 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:13.560 Ron Hubbard, who was an author, founded the Church of Scientology, 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:17.920 and he brought forth the information and the ideology and 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.120 a lot of that stuff. And and and we'll get 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.839 into some of the tenants in the origin story. Is 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:25.559 is the best way that I can think of to 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.360 say this, Yeah, the origins of the religion, yeah, and 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:34.440 or something. Yeah. So here is a very very simplified 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:38.960 version of how this goes. And this is based again, 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.200 like I said, on what L. Ron Hubbard wrote. He 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:48.840 says there was a galactic confederacy seventy five million years ago, 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:57.680 and it was ruled by Zenu. Zenu brought billions of 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:04.440 his people to Earth in spacecrafts, stacked them around volcanoes 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:10.440 on our planet, and then killed them all with hydrogen bombs. 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.840 Another version of this, I heard that he just basically 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.200 dumped them into volcanoes active volcanoes and they were fried alive. 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.280 I I have seen that as well, but I don't. 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.960 This is the hard part is that, again, people have 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.040 their notions of scientology. I took as much of this 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.520 as I could from some of the more reputable sites, 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.400 so it's hard to say if people twist some of that, 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:37.800 but I'm just going to kind of run with it 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:43.320 as I have it. According to the official Scientology scriptures, 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:49.200 these creatures were Thetan's. I believe. It's how you pronounce that. 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.840 Thetan's are evidently immortal souls that were the souls of 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.760 these people who were killed off by Zeno, and these 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:03.120 Satan's adhere to hue means and cause them spiritual pain 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.280 and harm. All those events that we just talked about 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:12.520 within scientology are known as incident to and what was 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.600 incident one? I'm not positive. Again, this thing is so 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:18.800 hard for me to wrap my head around. I'm not 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:25.280 exactly sure. But the traumatic memories that people have based 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:30.280 on these satan's that's known as the wall of fire 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.160 or the R six implants. So in other ways, I 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.640 say that the thetans have a huge amount of like 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.280 pain because of their ending, and then they carry that 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.600 into humans and sort of we experience that. That's what 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:48.119 causes Yeah, so we'd be a much happier and easier 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.960 going people if we didn't have these pains attached to 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:54.680 us by these souls. Yes, that's that's the way my 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.920 understanding is. And I may be incorrect, but the narrative 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:05.240 of Zenu is described as the space opera by l 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:11.280 Ron Hubbard, and he delivered all of this and warned 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:16.840 that anyone who tried to understand this past trauma or 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.600 as they call it, the R six implant, uh, that 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.600 our six implant was calculated to kill, so you basically 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.000 couldn't figure out how to get around it and free 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.920 yourself of it naturally. So the thing and that here's 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.000 to your body or sway, and that's an our six implant, 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.360 I think. So Okay, again, this is so far out 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.120 of outside of my wheelhouse, and it's really hard sometimes 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.599 to suss apart, and obviously goes thout saying there's a 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:50.160 lot of information about this online. This is like most yeah, 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:54.200 from pro and anti and Scientology website, so be careful 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:56.360 to note which kind of website you're on. And that's 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.040 a very good point, I mean, and what and we 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:00.960 got a little bit more here. But this is, like 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.720 I said before, a very brief overview, your bullet point overview. 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.640 If you're interested in this, as Devin said and Joe said, 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:13.400 there is a ton of resources out there for you 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.360 to look at it and dig into it and come 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.480 to your own conclusions about it. Now, where we were 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.439 at here is we were talking about those spirits, the 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:27.400 Thetan's what you're holding us back. The church believes that 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:32.840 the Satan's, like I said, are Thetan's Satan's They Thetans 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:37.400 are holding us back. And uh, it seems that the 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:42.440 members have of the Church of Scientology have set about 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:47.560 to free themselves from those spirits. The church's method of 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:54.000 spiritual rehabilitation is through a type of counseling that they 0:10:54.080 --> 0:11:01.240 call auditing, which the practitioners they try to re experience 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:06.160 consciously painful or traumatic events that happened in their past 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:10.360 and try to free themselves from the limitations that are 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:14.720 caused by that. So again, very high level, very basic 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:19.520 overview of scientology, or I should say, the beliefs of scientology. 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:22.640 So we should now talk about probably the history. And 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:27.200 now you're understanding that we all have multiple tatans in us, right, 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.520 not just not just one, but a bunch of them. 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.839 I think so, yes. And so if you're if you've 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.920 got like say, just a ton of thetans in you, 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.679 then you become a serial killer perhaps, and then if 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:40.640 you've only got a few, then you get to be presidents. 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:44.840 That's the way it works, I think. I mean, I 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.560 think this is something that people need to go Yeah, 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:50.760 I think, yeah, you're gonna have to dig into this 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.520 on your own because it's just there's so many details 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.240 and avenues that it goes down and I, like I said, 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.080 I started running down through some of the alleys and 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.280 then I just had to turn back because it just 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.200 I can't rab my head around it. Yeah, as I 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.600 was saying, though, we should probably get into some of 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:11.920 the history and the organization of the church, because again 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:18.120 this is important and it plays into the story of Michelle. Obviously, 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.839 we've we've explained that l. Ron Hubbard founded the church Scientology. 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:26.080 He officially founded the church in nineteen fifty three, though 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:32.240 he had been operating the Hubbard Association of Scientologists International 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.480 as of nineteen fifty two, So to me, it's almost 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:40.600 like he rebranded it and from there he was always 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.200 the head of the church up until his death in 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.720 and here's a here's a quote from Hubbard to kind 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:50.600 of give you an idea. I took this as a 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:54.840 way to understand what his his beliefs and aims for 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.600 the church were and what he intended it to be 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:04.120 for people. The quote is a civilization without insanity, without criminals, 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:09.319 and without war, where the able can prosper and honest 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.480 beings can have rights, and where man is free to 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:17.319 rise to greater heights are the aims of Scientology. So 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.400 at its simplest level, it's you know, the better people? 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.360 Would I take that to me? Which one could argue 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.600 is the name of all religions. I would agree. The 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:33.680 church itself is broken into many, many divisions and subdivisions, 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.480 and this is where it gets confusing. I would say 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:43.280 it's different than like the religion of Christianity is broken 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.440 into divisions and subdivisions. Would you agree with that, it's 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:51.800 more like a hierarchy in a in a corporation, or 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.760 more more than if like, well, the Protestants believe this, 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.320 and then you know Russian Orthodox believe this. You know 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:00.600 that it's more of a every but he believes the 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:05.160 same thing. And it's just like different callings within the 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:09.480 organization or religion instead of being like, well, we believe 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.360 all these different things that we have this one kind 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.360 of smaller belief or I guess we have one belief 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.560 in common and then believe a lot of other things. 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.720 It's it's it's definitely it's definitely organized almost like a corporation. 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.480 To me, that's a very great description. And it's it's 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.560 hard to imagine different sects of scientology, you know, like 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.680 Catholic and Protestant. It's kind of well, it's too new 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.520 of a religion. That's that's why it's hard to think 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:36.160 of that because it's brand new for all intensive purposes. 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:40.800 It's sixty years old round figure, So it's hard to 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.320 see it having fracture because that takes a long span 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:50.680 of time. Just saying yeah, right, We're gonna go through 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:54.440 some of the divisions here just briefly. And I apologize 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.200 this is full of acronyms, because every one of these 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.840 names is kind of long, But try and hang on 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.440 some of these because they do play a role later on. Uh. 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:10.440 There is the Religious Technology Center or RTC, which protects 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:15.880 the church's copyrights and trademarks, and from the reading that 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:21.160 I've done, that's primarily done through legal action exercising their right. 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:27.080 There is a division of the Association of Better Living 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:33.440 and Education, which helps further and promote the church and 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.520 its belief through social programs. So I'm guessing they're going 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.280 out in the community and helping out and fostering and 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.760 saying this is what scientology does and this is why 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.000 it's great. And they also have like a drug rehab 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.280 program and stuff like that. I assume that's underneath in 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.240 this too. I would presume that that would be likely. 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.360 It's spot for it. And then the one that's going 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.920 to be really important to our story is especially the 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:02.360 beginning of the story is ce org or Sea Organization. 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:08.840 Sea org was created in nine seven by Hubbard, and 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.480 this is it cracks me up a little bit. He 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:18.440 was taking a series of voyages around the Mediterranean Sea, 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.640 the Mediterranean, and I thought even mostly the Mediterranean. I'm 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.560 sure that he went other places, but if everything that 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.320 I've seen was mostly the Mediterranean. While he was on 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:34.680 his trips, Hubbard gave himself the title of commodore, because well, 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.400 why not. I would be the commodore of the fleet. 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:42.880 Uh well, and the crew of his ship. And sometimes 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.160 it sounds like there was more than one ship. He 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.640 called them the Sea Organization, which is how the name 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.760 came to be from what I gathered through the research. 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:55.800 Joe can correct me if I'm wrong, But I think 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:57.600 you can only be a commodore if it's a fleet 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.400 of ships, I believe so wise you're a captain or 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:05.280 an admiral. Yeah, unless you bestow the title on yourself. 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.160 Typically admirals don't usually command ships, so usually like commanding 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.919 more than one. But I'm just saying, you know, I 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:19.560 stand there's a respect for actual correct Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.800 we need to correct him. Yes, Okay, I think there 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:24.720 were more. I'm just I was saying that to say 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:26.640 I think there were more than one, and I would 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:31.719 agree with that. U se Org is still in existence today, 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:37.480 it's actually kind of an elite group. Getting into see 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.679 org isn't easy, and it's considered a very high honor 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.919 in the Church of Scientology to become a member now, 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:49.879 but now it seems to me that was essentially Hybrid's 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:53.600 portable bureaucracy while he was at sea at that time. 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.200 Yet at that time, but what purpose do they have now? 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.160 You know, you know, I don't want to go into it. 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.600 They or there's a lot of stuff there there, it's 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.560 too much to go into. If we go into every 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:10.280 level of this church, we're gonna be here for hours 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.479 and we're not going to get to our story. And 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.159 that's why I'll encourage people, if you're curious, please go 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.120 and look at some of this stuff on the web, 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:22.600 and we're gonna start talking faster. Now here's something about 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.280 sea ORG that I was actually really kind of shocked. 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.239 I mean, getting into the lead organization that's you know, 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:34.320 that makes sense not being easy, but it actually requires 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:40.280 a lifetime commitment to the Church of Scientology and its organizations. 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.359 Actually interesting to me because that was like one of 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.879 the first things I ever read about se ORG was 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:47.240 it requires a lifetime equipment. Oh and also it's like 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.000 a super high honor. So for me it was flipped. 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.399 So that's it's interesting that that came second for you 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.120 when you were doing your reading and research. Yeah, it's 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.280 just I guess a thing of perspective. I guess what 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.879 where you're reading it. Here's why you get if you 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.240 were accepted in or you you make it into the 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.760 status of being a member of s ORG. In exchange 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:13.359 for your membership, you get room and board and training 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.239 and auditing. And again remember we talked about auditing a 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.680 little bit earlier, which it turns out is often very expensive. Yeah, 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.800 so it's like actually a good benefit. I mean, yeah, 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:29.080 these doesn't do these things for free. As a member, 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.320 there's course or dues as there are lots of churches, 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.760 so if you want to go through processes, you have 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.680 to pay. But as a member of c OR, you 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:43.679 don't pay for that. Yeah, you're you're you're in a simple, 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.240 simplified version, you're an employee. Yeah, and I know if 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.960 we're from so I from talking to and reading about scientologists, 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.080 I know some people wind up putting a lot of 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:56.000 money in auditing over the years. Yeah, it can be 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.720 an expensive thing. And the reason I made the analogy 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:01.960 that's like being an employee is that you also get 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:06.640 a small weekly allowance or stipend. Here's the thing that 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.800 really caught me off guard about Sea Org is that, Okay, 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.480 you have to pledge your loyalty. I totally get that, 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.119 But it was the contract in the length of the 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:22.560 contract that you sign, which is not a billion years. 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:24.439 We did not make that up. That is real. No, 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:28.720 that is absolutely based on you know, everywhere it says 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.720 it's a billion years and they have a uh and 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.199 I actually I fact checked this to make sure that 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.720 they were not that this was accurate. The Sea Ords 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:44.720 motto is re venomous, which is Latin and loosely translated 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:46.879 means we come back. It was like it was a 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:51.960 good try at pronunciation, Steve. It was a W in 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:54.600 the thing that I read that put it phonetically, and 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:59.800 I was like, why that W doesn't work? About it? So, basically, 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.840 how do they just work out when you when you 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:05.600 die and are reborn a new body. Do they come 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:07.840 and they come and get you, impress you into service 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.359 or do you just know I think you're called But 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:13.359 I guess that would be the theory that the theory 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.880 of you know, like uh, reincarnation or things like that. 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.480 Is that a great example? It would be something similar 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:23.040 to the Dalai Lama. Certainly there's that aspect of the 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.800 higher ranking people go and find that child that's going 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:30.280 to be the Doali Lama, but also that that child 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:33.359 is like call, like they know in their heart of 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:35.960 hearts or whatever. So I think it's it's a combination 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.840 of that, and I can't I can't imagine that. It means, 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.160 you know, maybe maybe see or is going out there 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.240 and like, hey, you you signed a contract, you're coming 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.000 with us, But I don't get the impression. I The 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:49.000 impression I have is that people show up and say 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:52.240 it's weird. I was you know this. I'm really interested 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:54.840 in this and I don't really know why, and they say, oh, well, 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:56.960 you probably sign a contract a billion years ago. Let's 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.560 sign another one. Let's re up and we'll go from there, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:07.520 you know, carrier like that once. Okay, all right, well 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:11.960 I think that's enough about the basic structures and tenants 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:15.920 of scientology to get us into the story. Oh my gosh, 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:19.600 we still haven't even started talking about you started talking. 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.560 We'll be quick about it. I mean, because obviously everybody 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:26.800 knows enough about scientology from our thorough investigations, not even 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.240 not even not even Okay, well, let's let's move on 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:36.560 to the subject of today's show, which is Michelle Misscavage, 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:40.360 formally known before she was married by her maiden name 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:46.840 of Michelle Barnett. Michelle's parents were Barney and Flow Barnett, 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:55.720 and they were sorry his parents named him that. Um. 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:59.200 They were members of the church in the seventies, and 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:05.440 they they really believed in the church to the point 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:10.760 that they gave their daughters over to the custody and 0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:16.560 care of the church. So Michelle and her sister Clarice 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:22.480 became wardens of the church for lack of a better term, well, okay, 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:25.760 they were put in the church's care and their parents 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:31.719 just basically their their parents weren't doing anything. The girls 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:34.760 when they have they have one of these, um they have. 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:39.280 There's a scientology church and school up a kind of 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.760 near Portland. It's not actually in Portland, but it's kind 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:45.360 of near there. Um actually know somebody who works there. Uh, 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:47.840 and it's a boarding school. So I think essentially what 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:50.200 you do, it's not like, oh, you're just like a 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:52.040 ward of the state, award of the church as you 0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:54.080 send them off to their boarding school and they lived 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:56.240 there and then they do their summer programs through the 0:23:56.320 --> 0:23:58.440 church and then they you know, go back to their 0:23:58.560 --> 0:24:01.159 boarding school, and then once they grow joy they become 0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:04.439 you know, they start working at the church and joins whatever. 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:06.840 You know. So it's not so much of like, oh, 0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:10.320 just go away just like be kids in the church. 0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:12.960 It's not. It's also not like becoming a nun. I 0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:15.200 would say, it's not, you know, but it's it's more 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:19.440 of a you just become entrenched in the church itself 0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:22.000 because you you go to boarding school, your friends are there. 0:24:22.040 --> 0:24:24.760 It's just that that would just be my like little 0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:27.239 addendum to that, like and that's my understanding of how 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:30.560 and I have a hard time finding a lot of information. 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:32.840 But this is back in the seventies, so the church 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:37.240 has been around twenty years. L Ron Hubbard is making 0:24:37.359 --> 0:24:40.359 changes in making additions to the church. So I don't 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:42.760 know that that structure was in place at that time, 0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:46.359 but from what I can figure out, Michelle herself was 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:51.359 about ten or eleven years old at the time, and 0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:55.920 she from that point forward was raised and educated by 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:59.840 the church and surrounded by its members. Uh, and she 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:05.520 evidently really excelled. She did really well. She became a 0:25:05.520 --> 0:25:08.680 member of what is and this is gonna be another acoryum, 0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:14.359 what is known as CMO, which stands for Commodore's Messenger Organization, 0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:19.200 and that is a group that is inside of SORG itself. 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:23.320 So again we're talking about layers within layers of the elite. 0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:30.320 Okay um. In N one, she married David Miss Cabbage. 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:35.159 He was also a member of CMO, and she was 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:40.520 seen on a regular basis by members, and she took 0:25:40.560 --> 0:25:44.800 on duties. From that point forward, she became a liaison 0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:48.960 to some of the more famous members of the church. Again, 0:25:49.200 --> 0:25:51.399