1 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: Thinking sideways. I don't stories of things we simply don't 2 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: know the answer too. Well. Hey there, and welcome again 3 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Steve of course, 4 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: joined by and I don't know. I just feel like 5 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: I have to imitate him sometimes. Oh the deep boys. Okay, okay, 6 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: I'll be high pitched from now. Okay, okay, on I'll 7 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,639 Speaker 1: go low. Okay. Well, today we've we've of course, got 8 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: another bit of a mystery for you. And what we're 9 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: gonna talk about is we're going to talk about the 10 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: story of Michelle Shelley Miss Cabbage. Michelle is the wife 11 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: of David Miscabbage, who you may know. That name you 12 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: may not. You might not recognize it because that's not 13 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: how a lot of people pronounce it too. Yeah, Mscovige, 14 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: I've seen or her in Miss Cabage, So I just 15 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: kind of chose when it ran with it because that's 16 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: what Ted Copple used. Uh Well. David Miscavage is the 17 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: current chairman of the Board of Religious Technology Center of 18 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: the Church of Scientology, So for all intentsive purposes, David's 19 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: Miscabbage is the leader of the Church of Scientology. Michelle Miscavage, 20 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: of course, being the wife of the head of this 21 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: church is a fairly well known figure, seen publicly and 22 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: known by members of the church, and she was very 23 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: active up until August of two thousand and seven when 24 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: she completely dropped off the radar and essentially disappeared from 25 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: the public eye. So she's taking a sabbatical. In other words, honestly, 26 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: not nobody. Nobody'll say anything an unsolved mystery Exactually, uh, 27 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: there there's a couple of things that I want to 28 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: cover first before we get into the story. First of 29 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: which is I want to send out a big thank 30 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: you to Aubrey who sent the story into us. Uh. 31 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: This really was one of those ones where I just 32 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: went down the rabbit hole because I'm talking. I've been 33 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: doing that a lot lately, I really have. It's it's 34 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: a it's a bad personality quirk. I guess you just 35 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: like clicking on links. That's all it is. And the 36 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: thing about it is, when you're dealing with the Church 37 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:45,399 Speaker 1: of Scientology, there's a lot a lot there's an interesting topic. Yeah, 38 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: well it it is. And that's kind of the second 39 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: thing I want to talk about here is that this 40 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: story deals with the Church of Scientology and why we're 41 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: going to discuss how the church works and some of 42 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: its practices. That's in no way reflective of any feelings 43 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: or personal beliefs towards it or anything like that. I mean, honestly, 44 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: I don't understand the Church of Science. I don't understand 45 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: any churches though, so that's I'm I'm not a religious individual, 46 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: so you know, these faith based systems, I just I 47 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: can't really wrap my head around. So what we talk 48 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: about here is going to be accounting and information that 49 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: we have found through our research, and there's there's no 50 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: personal malice or anything like that. This is just trying 51 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: to lay out facts as much as we can, and 52 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: also we don't want to alienate Tom Cruise, who's one 53 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: of our listeners. We're pretty sure. Yeah, of course, you 54 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: know you said this guy named Tom who sends us 55 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: links and stuff, So I'm assuming it's Tom Cruise. Tom, 56 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: it is a safe bat. Yeah. Before we get into 57 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: the story of Michelle, I do need to give a 58 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: little bit of background on the Church of Scientology. Most 59 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: people probably know something about the church or some information 60 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: about the church. I mean, there's obviously Joe alluded to. 61 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: They've got some pretty famous members. Tom cruise. Uh, Kirsty Alley, 62 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: what's the other Yeah, I think back to back back 63 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: back is a member of the church. I didn't realize that. 64 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,799 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. Again, I've gonna be wrong. I don't remember. 65 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure though. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to say, 66 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: but but there is a ton of information out there 67 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: how their ideology and their history and the organization. It's 68 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: all important and it plays a role in the story. 69 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: So we've kind of got to do a little bit 70 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: of backwork before we actually get to the story of Michelle. 71 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: It's also very well preserved. It's a modern religion for 72 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: all intents and purp. This is so, you know, information, 73 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: accurate information about origins and things like that are pretty 74 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: pretty readily available, which is kind of nice. Actually, it's 75 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: not one that you're like, well, maybe this thing happened, 76 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: and I guess we you know, to be part of it, 77 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: you have to believe it. But also maybe it didn't 78 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: and we don't have any good records or anything, so 79 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. And the cool thing about it is 80 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: for future of archaeologists and anthropologists or whatever you want 81 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: to call them, is that even after all this has 82 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: been lost, you'll be able to dig up some crips 83 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: that have a lot of stuff inscribed on them, the 84 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: entire fact they're describing. You weren't going to talk about 85 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: this later, were you? A little bit? But go ahead, 86 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: it's fine, continue on now. The church is actually describing 87 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: every word that L. Ron Hubbard ever wrote on the 88 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: steel plates, casing them in in what titanium cases, and 89 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: then putting them in underground bunkers. So someday, actually somebody 90 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: is going to dig that stuff up and negative think 91 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: this is what we all believed. It's quite possible. Interesting, Well, 92 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: let's let's go into some of the beliefs of Scientology. 93 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: As Joe alluded to a little bit there. H. L. 94 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: Ron Hubbard, who was an author, founded the Church of Scientology, 95 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: and he brought forth the information and the ideology and 96 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff. And and and we'll get 97 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: into some of the tenants in the origin story. Is 98 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:25,559 Speaker 1: is the best way that I can think of to 99 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: say this, Yeah, the origins of the religion, yeah, and 100 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah. So here is a very very simplified 101 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: version of how this goes. And this is based again, 102 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: like I said, on what L. Ron Hubbard wrote. He 103 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: says there was a galactic confederacy seventy five million years ago, 104 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: and it was ruled by Zenu. Zenu brought billions of 105 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: his people to Earth in spacecrafts, stacked them around volcanoes 106 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: on our planet, and then killed them all with hydrogen bombs. 107 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: Another version of this, I heard that he just basically 108 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: dumped them into volcanoes active volcanoes and they were fried alive. 109 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: I I have seen that as well, but I don't. 110 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: This is the hard part is that, again, people have 111 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: their notions of scientology. I took as much of this 112 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: as I could from some of the more reputable sites, 113 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: so it's hard to say if people twist some of that, 114 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: but I'm just going to kind of run with it 115 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: as I have it. According to the official Scientology scriptures, 116 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: these creatures were Thetan's. I believe. It's how you pronounce that. 117 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: Thetan's are evidently immortal souls that were the souls of 118 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: these people who were killed off by Zeno, and these 119 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: Satan's adhere to hue means and cause them spiritual pain 120 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: and harm. All those events that we just talked about 121 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: within scientology are known as incident to and what was 122 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: incident one? I'm not positive. Again, this thing is so 123 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: hard for me to wrap my head around. I'm not 124 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: exactly sure. But the traumatic memories that people have based 125 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: on these satan's that's known as the wall of fire 126 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: or the R six implants. So in other ways, I 127 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: say that the thetans have a huge amount of like 128 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: pain because of their ending, and then they carry that 129 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: into humans and sort of we experience that. That's what 130 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:48,119 Speaker 1: causes Yeah, so we'd be a much happier and easier 131 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: going people if we didn't have these pains attached to 132 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: us by these souls. Yes, that's that's the way my 133 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: understanding is. And I may be incorrect, but the narrative 134 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: of Zenu is described as the space opera by l 135 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: Ron Hubbard, and he delivered all of this and warned 136 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: that anyone who tried to understand this past trauma or 137 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: as they call it, the R six implant, uh, that 138 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: our six implant was calculated to kill, so you basically 139 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: couldn't figure out how to get around it and free 140 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: yourself of it naturally. So the thing and that here's 141 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: to your body or sway, and that's an our six implant, 142 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: I think. So Okay, again, this is so far out 143 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: of outside of my wheelhouse, and it's really hard sometimes 144 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,599 Speaker 1: to suss apart, and obviously goes thout saying there's a 145 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: lot of information about this online. This is like most yeah, 146 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: from pro and anti and Scientology website, so be careful 147 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: to note which kind of website you're on. And that's 148 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: a very good point, I mean, and what and we 149 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: got a little bit more here. But this is, like 150 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: I said before, a very brief overview, your bullet point overview. 151 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: If you're interested in this, as Devin said and Joe said, 152 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: there is a ton of resources out there for you 153 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: to look at it and dig into it and come 154 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: to your own conclusions about it. Now, where we were 155 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: at here is we were talking about those spirits, the 156 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: Thetan's what you're holding us back. The church believes that 157 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: the Satan's, like I said, are Thetan's Satan's They Thetans 158 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: are holding us back. And uh, it seems that the 159 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: members have of the Church of Scientology have set about 160 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: to free themselves from those spirits. The church's method of 161 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: spiritual rehabilitation is through a type of counseling that they 162 00:10:54,080 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: call auditing, which the practitioners they try to re experience 163 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: consciously painful or traumatic events that happened in their past 164 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: and try to free themselves from the limitations that are 165 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: caused by that. So again, very high level, very basic 166 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: overview of scientology, or I should say, the beliefs of scientology. 167 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: So we should now talk about probably the history. And 168 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: now you're understanding that we all have multiple tatans in us, right, 169 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: not just not just one, but a bunch of them. 170 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: I think so, yes. And so if you're if you've 171 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: got like say, just a ton of thetans in you, 172 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: then you become a serial killer perhaps, and then if 173 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: you've only got a few, then you get to be presidents. 174 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: That's the way it works, I think. I mean, I 175 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: think this is something that people need to go Yeah, 176 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, you're gonna have to dig into this 177 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: on your own because it's just there's so many details 178 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: and avenues that it goes down and I, like I said, 179 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: I started running down through some of the alleys and 180 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: then I just had to turn back because it just 181 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: I can't rab my head around it. Yeah, as I 182 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: was saying, though, we should probably get into some of 183 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: the history and the organization of the church, because again 184 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: this is important and it plays into the story of Michelle. Obviously, 185 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: we've we've explained that l. Ron Hubbard founded the church Scientology. 186 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: He officially founded the church in nineteen fifty three, though 187 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: he had been operating the Hubbard Association of Scientologists International 188 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: as of nineteen fifty two, So to me, it's almost 189 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: like he rebranded it and from there he was always 190 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: the head of the church up until his death in 191 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: and here's a here's a quote from Hubbard to kind 192 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: of give you an idea. I took this as a 193 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: way to understand what his his beliefs and aims for 194 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: the church were and what he intended it to be 195 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: for people. The quote is a civilization without insanity, without criminals, 196 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 1: and without war, where the able can prosper and honest 197 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: beings can have rights, and where man is free to 198 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: rise to greater heights are the aims of Scientology. So 199 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: at its simplest level, it's you know, the better people? 200 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: Would I take that to me? Which one could argue 201 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: is the name of all religions. I would agree. The 202 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: church itself is broken into many, many divisions and subdivisions, 203 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: and this is where it gets confusing. I would say 204 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: it's different than like the religion of Christianity is broken 205 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: into divisions and subdivisions. Would you agree with that, it's 206 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: more like a hierarchy in a in a corporation, or 207 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: more more than if like, well, the Protestants believe this, 208 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: and then you know Russian Orthodox believe this. You know 209 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: that it's more of a every but he believes the 210 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: same thing. And it's just like different callings within the 211 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: organization or religion instead of being like, well, we believe 212 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: all these different things that we have this one kind 213 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: of smaller belief or I guess we have one belief 214 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: in common and then believe a lot of other things. 215 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: It's it's it's definitely it's definitely organized almost like a corporation. 216 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: To me, that's a very great description. And it's it's 217 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: hard to imagine different sects of scientology, you know, like 218 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: Catholic and Protestant. It's kind of well, it's too new 219 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: of a religion. That's that's why it's hard to think 220 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: of that because it's brand new for all intensive purposes. 221 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: It's sixty years old round figure, So it's hard to 222 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: see it having fracture because that takes a long span 223 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: of time. Just saying yeah, right, We're gonna go through 224 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: some of the divisions here just briefly. And I apologize 225 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: this is full of acronyms, because every one of these 226 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: names is kind of long, But try and hang on 227 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: some of these because they do play a role later on. Uh. 228 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: There is the Religious Technology Center or RTC, which protects 229 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: the church's copyrights and trademarks, and from the reading that 230 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: I've done, that's primarily done through legal action exercising their right. 231 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: There is a division of the Association of Better Living 232 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: and Education, which helps further and promote the church and 233 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: its belief through social programs. So I'm guessing they're going 234 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: out in the community and helping out and fostering and 235 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: saying this is what scientology does and this is why 236 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: it's great. And they also have like a drug rehab 237 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: program and stuff like that. I assume that's underneath in 238 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: this too. I would presume that that would be likely. 239 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: It's spot for it. And then the one that's going 240 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: to be really important to our story is especially the 241 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: beginning of the story is ce org or Sea Organization. 242 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: Sea org was created in nine seven by Hubbard, and 243 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: this is it cracks me up a little bit. He 244 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: was taking a series of voyages around the Mediterranean Sea, 245 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean, and I thought even mostly the Mediterranean. I'm 246 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: sure that he went other places, but if everything that 247 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: I've seen was mostly the Mediterranean. While he was on 248 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: his trips, Hubbard gave himself the title of commodore, because well, 249 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: why not. I would be the commodore of the fleet. 250 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: Uh well, and the crew of his ship. And sometimes 251 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: it sounds like there was more than one ship. He 252 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: called them the Sea Organization, which is how the name 253 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: came to be from what I gathered through the research. 254 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: Joe can correct me if I'm wrong, But I think 255 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: you can only be a commodore if it's a fleet 256 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: of ships, I believe so wise you're a captain or 257 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: an admiral. Yeah, unless you bestow the title on yourself. 258 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: Typically admirals don't usually command ships, so usually like commanding 259 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 1: more than one. But I'm just saying, you know, I 260 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: stand there's a respect for actual correct Yeah, yeah, yeah, 261 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: we need to correct him. Yes, Okay, I think there 262 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: were more. I'm just I was saying that to say 263 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: I think there were more than one, and I would 264 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:31,719 Speaker 1: agree with that. U se Org is still in existence today, 265 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: it's actually kind of an elite group. Getting into see 266 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: org isn't easy, and it's considered a very high honor 267 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 1: in the Church of Scientology to become a member now, 268 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: but now it seems to me that was essentially Hybrid's 269 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: portable bureaucracy while he was at sea at that time. 270 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: Yet at that time, but what purpose do they have now? 271 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: You know, you know, I don't want to go into it. 272 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: They or there's a lot of stuff there there, it's 273 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: too much to go into. If we go into every 274 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: level of this church, we're gonna be here for hours 275 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,479 Speaker 1: and we're not going to get to our story. And 276 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: that's why I'll encourage people, if you're curious, please go 277 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: and look at some of this stuff on the web, 278 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: and we're gonna start talking faster. Now here's something about 279 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: sea ORG that I was actually really kind of shocked. 280 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,239 Speaker 1: I mean, getting into the lead organization that's you know, 281 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: that makes sense not being easy, but it actually requires 282 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: a lifetime commitment to the Church of Scientology and its organizations. 283 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: Actually interesting to me because that was like one of 284 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: the first things I ever read about se ORG was 285 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: it requires a lifetime equipment. Oh and also it's like 286 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: a super high honor. So for me it was flipped. 287 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: So that's it's interesting that that came second for you 288 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: when you were doing your reading and research. Yeah, it's 289 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: just I guess a thing of perspective. I guess what 290 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: where you're reading it. Here's why you get if you 291 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: were accepted in or you you make it into the 292 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: status of being a member of s ORG. In exchange 293 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: for your membership, you get room and board and training 294 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,239 Speaker 1: and auditing. And again remember we talked about auditing a 295 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: little bit earlier, which it turns out is often very expensive. Yeah, 296 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: so it's like actually a good benefit. I mean, yeah, 297 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: these doesn't do these things for free. As a member, 298 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: there's course or dues as there are lots of churches, 299 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: so if you want to go through processes, you have 300 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: to pay. But as a member of c OR, you 301 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: don't pay for that. Yeah, you're you're you're in a simple, 302 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: simplified version, you're an employee. Yeah, and I know if 303 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: we're from so I from talking to and reading about scientologists, 304 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: I know some people wind up putting a lot of 305 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: money in auditing over the years. Yeah, it can be 306 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: an expensive thing. And the reason I made the analogy 307 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: that's like being an employee is that you also get 308 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: a small weekly allowance or stipend. Here's the thing that 309 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: really caught me off guard about Sea Org is that, Okay, 310 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: you have to pledge your loyalty. I totally get that, 311 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: But it was the contract in the length of the 312 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: contract that you sign, which is not a billion years. 313 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: We did not make that up. That is real. No, 314 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: that is absolutely based on you know, everywhere it says 315 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: it's a billion years and they have a uh and 316 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: I actually I fact checked this to make sure that 317 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: they were not that this was accurate. The Sea Ords 318 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: motto is re venomous, which is Latin and loosely translated 319 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: means we come back. It was like it was a 320 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: good try at pronunciation, Steve. It was a W in 321 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: the thing that I read that put it phonetically, and 322 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: I was like, why that W doesn't work? About it? So, basically, 323 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: how do they just work out when you when you 324 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: die and are reborn a new body. Do they come 325 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: and they come and get you, impress you into service 326 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: or do you just know I think you're called But 327 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: I guess that would be the theory that the theory 328 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: of you know, like uh, reincarnation or things like that. 329 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: Is that a great example? It would be something similar 330 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: to the Dalai Lama. Certainly there's that aspect of the 331 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: higher ranking people go and find that child that's going 332 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: to be the Doali Lama, but also that that child 333 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: is like call, like they know in their heart of 334 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: hearts or whatever. So I think it's it's a combination 335 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: of that, and I can't I can't imagine that. It means, 336 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: you know, maybe maybe see or is going out there 337 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: and like, hey, you you signed a contract, you're coming 338 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: with us, But I don't get the impression. I The 339 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: impression I have is that people show up and say 340 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: it's weird. I was you know this. I'm really interested 341 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: in this and I don't really know why, and they say, oh, well, 342 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: you probably sign a contract a billion years ago. Let's 343 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: sign another one. Let's re up and we'll go from there, 344 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: you know, carrier like that once. Okay, all right, well 345 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: I think that's enough about the basic structures and tenants 346 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: of scientology to get us into the story. Oh my gosh, 347 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: we still haven't even started talking about you started talking. 348 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: We'll be quick about it. I mean, because obviously everybody 349 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: knows enough about scientology from our thorough investigations, not even 350 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: not even not even Okay, well, let's let's move on 351 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: to the subject of today's show, which is Michelle Misscavage, 352 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 1: formally known before she was married by her maiden name 353 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: of Michelle Barnett. Michelle's parents were Barney and Flow Barnett, 354 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: and they were sorry his parents named him that. Um. 355 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: They were members of the church in the seventies, and 356 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: they they really believed in the church to the point 357 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: that they gave their daughters over to the custody and 358 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: care of the church. So Michelle and her sister Clarice 359 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: became wardens of the church for lack of a better term, well, okay, 360 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: they were put in the church's care and their parents 361 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:31,719 Speaker 1: just basically their their parents weren't doing anything. The girls 362 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: when they have they have one of these, um they have. 363 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: There's a scientology church and school up a kind of 364 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: near Portland. It's not actually in Portland, but it's kind 365 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: of near there. Um actually know somebody who works there. Uh, 366 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: and it's a boarding school. So I think essentially what 367 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: you do, it's not like, oh, you're just like a 368 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: ward of the state, award of the church as you 369 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: send them off to their boarding school and they lived 370 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: there and then they do their summer programs through the 371 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: church and then they you know, go back to their 372 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: boarding school, and then once they grow joy they become 373 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: you know, they start working at the church and joins whatever. 374 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: You know. So it's not so much of like, oh, 375 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: just go away just like be kids in the church. 376 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: It's not. It's also not like becoming a nun. I 377 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: would say, it's not, you know, but it's it's more 378 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: of a you just become entrenched in the church itself 379 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: because you you go to boarding school, your friends are there. 380 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: It's just that that would just be my like little 381 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,239 Speaker 1: addendum to that, like and that's my understanding of how 382 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: and I have a hard time finding a lot of information. 383 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: But this is back in the seventies, so the church 384 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: has been around twenty years. L Ron Hubbard is making 385 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: changes in making additions to the church. So I don't 386 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: know that that structure was in place at that time, 387 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: but from what I can figure out, Michelle herself was 388 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: about ten or eleven years old at the time, and 389 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: she from that point forward was raised and educated by 390 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: the church and surrounded by its members. Uh, and she 391 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: evidently really excelled. She did really well. She became a 392 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: member of what is and this is gonna be another acoryum, 393 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: what is known as CMO, which stands for Commodore's Messenger Organization, 394 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: and that is a group that is inside of SORG itself. 395 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: So again we're talking about layers within layers of the elite. 396 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: Okay um. In N one, she married David Miss Cabbage. 397 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: He was also a member of CMO, and she was 398 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: seen on a regular basis by members, and she took 399 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: on duties. From that point forward, she became a liaison 400 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: to some of the more famous members of the church. Again, 401 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: Tom Cruise was one of the people that she worked 402 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: directly with. Uh. This this is a little bit of 403 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: a sidetrack, but this is an odd bit of information 404 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: that I came across. Every accounting of her marriage and 405 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: her relationship with David gives me the impression that it 406 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: wasn't a romantic relationship. People never saw them kiss, no affection, 407 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: no touching. Its appears to have been a very formal arrangement. 408 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: Well there's you know, who knows, maybe maybe the roses 409 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: off the bloom and you know, they're just getting a 410 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: little tired of each other. But this is this is 411 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: kind of from the beginning. But also the thing that 412 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: I think might help explain some of that, because I 413 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: did a little digging on this is sea Org is 414 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: really conservative and it forbids pretty much anything that is 415 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: sexual in nature in its members, I would assume, except 416 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: for approcreation. Except for approcreation, so there's no no premarital anything. 417 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: And I kind of get the impression that sex is 418 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: for making children and that's it, which would explain why 419 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: they weren't lovey, dovey, huggy kissy all the time, but 420 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: it would also what they believe it could also be. 421 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: I mean, there are a number of American political marriages 422 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: that you can look at and say, well, that really 423 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: just looks like a partnership of two people who saw 424 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: the benefit of being married and that it would improve 425 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: their status to be married, and they just made it romantic. Yeah, 426 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: it probably happens. I still think Bill and Bill and 427 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: Hillary you're obviously talking about. Probably. I think they probably 428 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: cared about each other at the beginning, but that was 429 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: gone probably after Bill's fifth affair. I mean, I would 430 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: say that they're definitely certainly not the only people that 431 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: come to mind in that sort of and you know, 432 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: I think I think it's you know, it could be 433 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 1: any number of things. Yeah, I personally just had the 434 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: impression that was based on the ideology they were following, 435 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: but in sew York. But you, I mean, it's hard 436 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: to say exactly. There are definitely couples in this world 437 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: that do come from conservative places where like the only 438 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: thing you'll ever see them doing is holding hands sometimes, 439 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: and they get bashful if they're caught holding hands, and 440 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,360 Speaker 1: you know, that's just it's part of a lot of cultures. 441 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 1: This is very true. In seven, I said, I think 442 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: I mentioned this earlier. L Ron Hubbard passed away and 443 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: left a power vacuum in the church. That was it 444 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: like a sudden death. He how do I say this? 445 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: He had been going downhill for a while. Okay, I 446 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: guess mentally and physically what I've read. I generally just 447 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: kind of have this kind of like weirdness in my 448 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: brain about people who like are in these positions of 449 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: power that are like on the slow decline and don't think, oh, 450 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: you know would be good is naming a successor or 451 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: okay whatever? Ce like fine, I honestly, you don't even 452 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: have the problem with like, I'm gonna hold this office 453 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: until like they pry it from my cold that hands. 454 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: That's fine as long as you say, I'm gonna have 455 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: this office until they pry it from my cold that hands, 456 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: at which point this person is in charge. But he 457 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: did he didn't do that. He didn't do that. And 458 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: this is this, this is a good point to put 459 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: in that the Church of Scientology is waiting for his return. Well, 460 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: there's at a lot they have a lot of campuses, 461 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: and there's there's things at these campuses that are signs 462 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: for him to go to for when he returns, things 463 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: to encourage his return. So I almost wonder if some 464 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: of it was he said I'll be right back, and 465 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: some of it was people just denying that this was 466 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: gonna happen. People deny death a lot. That's a tenant's 467 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: fair got to do, you know, I mean, I mean, 468 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: if you know, I mean, obviously we all know that 469 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: we're going to die one day, you know, Nope, not happening. 470 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to live forever. But yeah, but we're all 471 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: mean you can't functionalize, no. But but in this power vacuum, 472 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,719 Speaker 1: there was a lot of political jockeying. From the information 473 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: that i've I've read for who was going to be 474 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: in charge, there's here's an example of something that I 475 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: came across. And obviously we all know I'll just you know, 476 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: I'll pull the cat out of the bag. We know 477 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: that David Miscabbage came out on top and he is 478 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: now the head of the church. But there were things 479 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: that were going on. Just before Hubbard died. He put 480 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: out an apparent order that's circulated in Sea Org which 481 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: promoted to scientologists. It was a husband and wife his 482 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: The gentleman's name was Pat Broker and I don't have 483 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: his wife's name, but they were going to be promoted 484 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: to a new rank, which was loyal Officer, which made 485 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: them the highest ranking members in the organization or short 486 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: of Hubbard. David MS. Cabbage said that the order was forged, 487 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: and I don't know the details of what happened, but 488 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: from what I understand, that didn't actually ever go through. 489 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: They didn't get that position, and I'm going to make 490 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: a presumption that that would not have allowed him to 491 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: move into the position of chairman of the board. So 492 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: so after he after he came out on top, what 493 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: happened to Pat Broker and his wife. I don't know. 494 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't. I that's the only information 495 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: that I came across about them. I can't find any 496 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: specific information saying what happened to them within the church. 497 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: I don't. I just don't, simply don't know. Once David 498 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: had his position, Michelle was also given a position befitting 499 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: the first Lady of Scientology, and that her title was 500 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: Chairman of the Board's Assistant. She worked in the executive office, 501 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: and from what I gather, her primary responsibility officially was 502 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: to manage the dozen or so employees that were in 503 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: that office. I guess I if it were, it's my 504 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: reading of the situation that it's it's very similar to 505 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: uh CEO, and an executive assistant in the position of 506 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: executive assistant is often kind of diminished to this leg well, 507 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: he just she just does whatever the CEO wants her 508 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: to do. But I think that a's that misses a 509 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: lot of the nuances I mean executive assistance. If their 510 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: CEO has gone there in charge there, they are instrumental. 511 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: You know, there are many organizations in which executive assistants 512 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: are senior staff or sea level employees, even though they 513 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: don't have that official title. So I think it would 514 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,479 Speaker 1: be naive to say, like, oh, she was just like 515 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: a gopher aaron boy for her husband in that capacity. 516 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: I think that it's more like being the first lady 517 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: in that like she has a lot of responsibilities. It's 518 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: kind of like being executive assistant or office manager or something, 519 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: not just like we'll go get me coffee and like 520 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: make babies. True, but it also unofficially in things that 521 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: have come across her job was as you kind of said, 522 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: the the executive assistant, as you would say, was her 523 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: job duty was to go getting coffee. But really she 524 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: was supposed to do She basically did whatever he wanted 525 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: her to do. He she did whatever her husband dictated. 526 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: And again this is from the reporting that I've come 527 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,439 Speaker 1: across and and all of that, so I can't confirm that. 528 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: And of course, you know that's that's not the most 529 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: flattering descriptions, and I you know, we don't do this 530 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,399 Speaker 1: a lot. But I'm going to cite a source here, 531 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: which is there's a Vanity Fair article and it's quite lengthy, 532 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: and the author did a bunch of interviews with people 533 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: who have since left the church, and I feel like 534 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:35,439 Speaker 1: there were not a lot of names, so that that 535 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: that's where some of this internal executive level stuff that 536 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: I'm I'm repeating here, that's where I got that, all right, 537 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 1: And yeah, that's that's totally fair. It's just been my 538 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: kind of understanding of other stuff. So let's talk a 539 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: little bit more about David. After David assumed power, things, 540 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: and I used that phrase loosely, after he became chairman 541 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: of the board, things in the executive level of the church, 542 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 1: they appear to become more and more tense. And his 543 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 1: behavior and this is my impression based on the information 544 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: I've read read this is I read read his behavior 545 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 1: seems to evolved or devolved to the point of almost meglemania. Again, 546 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: these are from people who have left the church, saying 547 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: that he became quite cruel and quite brutal to people. Uh, 548 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: And I can't back any of that up, but there's 549 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: enough people that say that it's it's hard. It's hard 550 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: when anybody leaves a group like you know, scientology, to 551 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: you kind of have to grain of salt it, you know, 552 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: you want to leave that stuff. I think that a 553 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: lot of the stuff about scientology that you read, it's 554 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: kind of like it's believed because like you kind of 555 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,399 Speaker 1: want to believe in this like big shadow organization. He's 556 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,760 Speaker 1: the same sort of thing as like the Illuminati almost 557 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: to me, where yeah, where you're like, oh gosh, the 558 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: shadow organization that probably exists, and they're like super evil 559 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,919 Speaker 1: and everything is the worst and everybody's in on it. 560 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: It's this huge conspiracy. So I think that you have 561 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: to be careful on like both sides. I think that 562 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: there's probably a middle ground truth behind every story. Yeah, 563 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: there probably is. But I do have to say though, 564 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: having having a bet a few scientologists in my time, 565 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,240 Speaker 1: they tend to be pretty devoted to the to the church, 566 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: and they seem to be the kind of people who 567 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: really really want to stay with the church, and I'm 568 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: taking what they must take quite an extreme thing to 569 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: drive them out. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that 570 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: you find that within all religions. You know, I know 571 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: a lot of Christians who are really dedicated to the church, 572 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 1: and you know, that's it's kind of the same argument 573 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: either way. Well let's let's let's get back to the 574 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: story here. Yeah, So in other words, he is he's 575 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: becoming more cruel. Um, He's he's obviously going the wrong direction. 576 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: He's getting more thetent's in him. What Michelle in her role, 577 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,839 Speaker 1: her official role, she seems to have taken on the 578 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,760 Speaker 1: task of putting herself between her husband and the staff, 579 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: um to the point of running interference for everyone. And again, 580 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: this is my interpretation, is in attempt to spare them 581 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: from the actions that she's seen him, you know, presenting 582 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: to others. UM. Now, obviously that's going to take its toll, 583 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 1: that's going to wear someone down, and it seems to 584 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:59,839 Speaker 1: have done that to Michelle, and that actually helps kind 585 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:04,240 Speaker 1: of it lines up with the events that take place 586 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:09,240 Speaker 1: before she disappears from the public eye. In two thousand 587 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: and six, Michelle was given the task by David of 588 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: creating a new organization board or again as everything seems 589 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 1: to be shortened in this religion organ board, they call 590 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: it the organ board with Originally l Ron Hubbard had 591 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 1: created the organization Board, which as I understand, was seven 592 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: divisions of the church that had different functions and duties, 593 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: and for reasons that I don't know, David had decided 594 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: that it needed to be reorganized and restructured, and he 595 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: had assigned this task to several people. Every time somebody 596 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: came back with something, he rejected it. He just he 597 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: didn't like what they gave, and so he finally gave 598 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,919 Speaker 1: it to his wife and said, you can do this. 599 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: It seems like the kind of case of like, I 600 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: don't like it, change it. Well, what do you want? 601 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, I just don't like it. Change it. 602 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: That's that's exactly, you know. Obviously it sounded to me 603 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: like there was actually sort of it was sort of 604 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,320 Speaker 1: a group effort by Michelle and a few other people 605 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: to put something together, a plan that But yeah, and 606 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: the thing about it is is like, you know, at 607 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: a certain point, after the third or fourth rejection, if 608 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: I think they should have gone to David and said, hey, 609 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: you need to be in this group because sending us 610 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,359 Speaker 1: off to waste our time and then you rejected, I mean, 611 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: just come in here and tell us what you think 612 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: of what you want. But that's the hard part. I mean, again, 613 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: we made the analogy of a corporate structure. You see 614 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: that in corporate institutions, and you think this would be 615 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: so much simpler if but that's just not the way 616 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,839 Speaker 1: it happened. Yeah, it's too bad. But here's the thing 617 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: ing Michelle finished the task, and she went ahead and 618 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: began to tell people what the changes were and give 619 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:16,439 Speaker 1: them their new jobs based on those changes. She did 620 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: this without running this by David first, which appears to 621 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: have been a giant problem. And at the same time, 622 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: so these are two events running in tandem. While she 623 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 1: was doing that, David had evidently gone to stay in 624 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: Los Angeles for a period of time, and she had 625 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 1: taken the opportunity to renovate their living quarters. And they 626 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,000 Speaker 1: lived at what is known as Gold Base, which is 627 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: it's in Riverside County, California, UM. And that meant that, 628 00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: of course all their stuff had to be boxed up 629 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: and moved around and set aside. And when he found 630 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 1: came back and he found out what his wife had 631 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,360 Speaker 1: done with both the organ board and the renovations, he 632 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,879 Speaker 1: keeps saying borg but it's or board, it's they're not 633 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: creatures from They're not Psylon creatures from Star Trek Boorg 634 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: their board board board and just that you just like 635 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: to clarify, and they're not borgs. Okay. Well, when he 636 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: got back and he found out what his wife had done, 637 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:46,880 Speaker 1: he was supremely pissed, not happy at all, and he 638 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 1: stripped her of her job title and he assigned her 639 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: a handler. Oh. She was seen in two thousand and 640 00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: seven at her father's funeral with her handler in tow 641 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: and that was it. She wasn't seen again in public 642 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: from that point forward. Yeah, And I think that she 643 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 1: actually between this incident in two thousand and six and 644 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: it was it was in December of two thousand six, 645 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: is when it happens, So we're looking at a eight 646 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: month period. Now. She actually disappeared at red not long 647 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,120 Speaker 1: after this, and that the only time, the only time 648 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: she reappeared was in August two thousand seven, with her 649 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: last public sight. Yeah. Correct, and that has not been 650 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: seen since. The official statement. The official line from the 651 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:41,800 Speaker 1: Church of Scientology is that Michelle's fine, She's fine, She's fine. 652 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: Does she stop questioning? Is she's fine? She's working on 653 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: a special project special the church is completely outside of 654 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: the public. Yeah's with an she's just taking some time. 655 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: This is happening on the laptop in home. I mean, 656 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: she spent all that time on the renovations. She might 657 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:08,280 Speaker 1: well be enjoying them. Totally fine, it's fine, it's fine, 658 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:14,720 Speaker 1: She's fine. Everything is fine. That's my interpretation of that statement, 659 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: just saying, do either of you know who Leah REMANI is? 660 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: Actually I had. I didn't know her by name. I 661 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 1: had seen her on TV a few times, and I 662 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: had not realized she was a scientologist. Lea Remini. She 663 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: plays the wife on the TV show The King of Queens. 664 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,319 Speaker 1: Until about a year ago, she was a member of 665 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: the church. She had also developed a friendship with Michelle. 666 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 1: I thought Michelle was her handler, right, I mean she 667 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,200 Speaker 1: wasn't her handler, wasn't she the Oh no, I'm sorry, 668 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: Liaison is the word I was looking for. I don't know. 669 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,239 Speaker 1: Were you gonna mentioned that Scientology has this this place 670 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: in l a that they called the Celebrity Center. No, 671 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: I wasn't going to go into that, Yeah, celebrity Well, 672 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: I saw this BBC News thing about that was like 673 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,880 Speaker 1: documentary about the Scientologists, and they interviewed ly ever meaning 674 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 1: and this was before her break with the church, and 675 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 1: she was just all, you know, all just glowing about 676 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 1: the church and how wonderful it was. And they interviewed 677 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,839 Speaker 1: her at the Celebrity Center. Well, and she's not so 678 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:31,400 Speaker 1: glowing about the church. Because obviously left and she was 679 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: friends with Michelle. She is one of the few outspoken 680 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:45,840 Speaker 1: people who has asked about Michelle's whereabouts vocally and rather publicly. 681 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,560 Speaker 1: She went so far as in two thousand thirteen to 682 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: file a missing person's report with the Los Angeles Police Department, saying, 683 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: this woman's disappeared. I guess if you haven't seen like 684 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,439 Speaker 1: a close friend for like, what is it, six plus years, 685 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 1: six years or so, you probably start to get suspicious. Yeah, 686 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 1: and that I think the reason she got angry and 687 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,759 Speaker 1: left the church is that people were people were just 688 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 1: stone walling her, like, why can't you just give me 689 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,840 Speaker 1: an answer? Yeah, yeah, I mean that's a very simple question. 690 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,120 Speaker 1: You think it could be a very simple where Yes, Well, 691 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:27,319 Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Police Department investigated, and they say that 692 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: they met Michelle and then she's fine. From what I read, 693 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: and I haven't read that they actually went to her home, 694 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: but they did actually speak to her in person. Well, yes, 695 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: they spoke to her in person. The information I had 696 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 1: said that they had the detectives had confirmed that they 697 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,839 Speaker 1: had met her and knew who she was, and that yes, 698 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,919 Speaker 1: she was fine. So we're saying this is a case 699 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 1: of like one woman being like, I don't really want 700 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: to be friends with that person anymore, so I'm going 701 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,360 Speaker 1: to stop returning her phone calls, and then that person 702 00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: being like, well she's dead, right, that's all. That's not 703 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,640 Speaker 1: a fair one now, because I mean she lear remdi 704 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,719 Speaker 1: uh would see. They would have events and all sorts 705 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 1: of things like that. Clearly major once who was what 706 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,880 Speaker 1: was the wedding that her husband, David Muscavage was the 707 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 1: best man at that was and that was since two 708 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 1: thou seven, So yeah, but his wife wasn't there. Yeah, 709 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 1: and was there and his wife wasn't there, and that 710 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,680 Speaker 1: made her really suspicious. Yeah, I think that's fair for 711 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,120 Speaker 1: a reason. They used to they used to exchange Christmas 712 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:40,080 Speaker 1: cards and gifts and stuff like that, and that ceased. Well, 713 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: I guess, like the thing I guess the thing that's 714 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 1: like a little weird about that is that, like the 715 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:53,160 Speaker 1: the excuse that the Church of Scientology is giving, right, Yeah, 716 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,120 Speaker 1: that she's fine, she's just working on something out of 717 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,360 Speaker 1: the public eye. But that doesn't mean that, like you 718 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,440 Speaker 1: stopped going to these social events, right, doesn't mean you 719 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 1: stop calling your friend even if okay, fine, like let's 720 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:06,520 Speaker 1: say that also she doesn't want to be friends with 721 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,480 Speaker 1: this woman. It doesn't mean that, like you don't go 722 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 1: to a wedding at which your husband is the best man. 723 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you don't you stop going to 724 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,279 Speaker 1: these galas and things like that, or even just like 725 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,960 Speaker 1: internal parties. It means that you like take a step 726 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,640 Speaker 1: back out of the public eye and like stop giving 727 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:27,399 Speaker 1: press conferences. Maybe. But well, there's and we'll we'll get 728 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,719 Speaker 1: into some reasons for why it could be such an 729 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 1: extreme removal from everything. Is it she's becoming Tom Cruise? Okay, 730 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:43,439 Speaker 1: not at all? Okay, Well, and and quite obviously we've 731 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,680 Speaker 1: told the story. Now we're in our theory. Yeah, okay. 732 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,480 Speaker 1: I have essentially three theories here for us, first of 733 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,799 Speaker 1: which is not the happiest theory, which is that she's 734 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:59,280 Speaker 1: dead by Tom Cruise. No, no, don't, don't even joke 735 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 1: about that. It is entirely possible that she's passed away. Now, 736 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,239 Speaker 1: I'm not pointing fingers to say that somebody killed her 737 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: or ordered her death, or how she died or anything 738 00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:19,080 Speaker 1: like that. But for somebody to disappear that completely usually 739 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:25,000 Speaker 1: requires that they are no longer living. And I've seen 740 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:30,200 Speaker 1: some stuff about her husband where he has said that 741 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:34,840 Speaker 1: he wanted her gone forever, and I've also seen things 742 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 1: that said that before everything went to Helen a hand asked, 743 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:44,080 Speaker 1: she was extremely unhappy. So you know, to me, it's 744 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,920 Speaker 1: entirely possible that she might not be here anymore. But 745 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,839 Speaker 1: I have you know, there's this weird thing about well, 746 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:56,400 Speaker 1: the church was all she knew, and that's her entire life. 747 00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,200 Speaker 1: So so you know, what where does that leave us 748 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:04,000 Speaker 1: if she's no longer among the living. Well, you know, 749 00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:09,080 Speaker 1: maybe she took her own life. Okay, so let's let's 750 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 1: run down this is that. Okay, she she is at 751 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,800 Speaker 1: the top, She is second in command for all intents 752 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:21,280 Speaker 1: and purposes, and then her world gets turned upside down 753 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:27,040 Speaker 1: and she is shunned from power. Well, she doesn't have 754 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:31,360 Speaker 1: the option to leave the church in her mind, because 755 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,360 Speaker 1: everyone she knows in her entire life is based in 756 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,680 Speaker 1: the Church of Scientology. And she probably actually doesn't have 757 00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:40,520 Speaker 1: a lot of useful skills It could be applied in 758 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:44,080 Speaker 1: the outside world either. I think useful is the wrong term. 759 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,600 Speaker 1: Marketable and knowing how to put that out in the 760 00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,759 Speaker 1: world to make yourself an employee of someplace. It is 761 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,520 Speaker 1: probably a better way to put that and more. Yeah, yeah, now, 762 00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,440 Speaker 1: you know, I mean I think we've got into this 763 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,800 Speaker 1: a little bit. But you know, like I said, she 764 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,960 Speaker 1: couldn't just leave the church because people who leave the 765 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:09,520 Speaker 1: church are ostracized by anyone who is still in the church. 766 00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,080 Speaker 1: And if every person that you know is a member 767 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:18,800 Speaker 1: of the organization, where does that leave you. You're denounced, 768 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,919 Speaker 1: you don't exist. And could you imagine trying to make 769 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,920 Speaker 1: I mean, people do it, but for someone who's been 770 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,600 Speaker 1: in that organization for that length of time, at that age, 771 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,560 Speaker 1: I don't think that's conceivable. Yeah. The thing about it, 772 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,480 Speaker 1: a lot of the people that have left are people 773 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,080 Speaker 1: who have with with some obvious exceptions. There's people who 774 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 1: went in as kind of like adults, and once they 775 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,920 Speaker 1: left the church, they still had family who were outside 776 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,680 Speaker 1: the church and friends that they used to know that 777 00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:50,000 Speaker 1: they can go back to. Whereas this person was in 778 00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,120 Speaker 1: it from from the very beginning and probably didn't know 779 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,279 Speaker 1: anybody who wasn't a scientologist at least that was not 780 00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:59,560 Speaker 1: friends with anybody exactly, so her her resources are limited 781 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,360 Speaker 1: outside the church. Yeah, it was. It would have been 782 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:02,919 Speaker 1: a tough trying to leave the church for her would 783 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:08,480 Speaker 1: have been a tough thing. Here's the problem with Michelle 784 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,440 Speaker 1: being dead theory. I have a problem with it. Well, 785 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,040 Speaker 1: I have a lot of problems with him, but my 786 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: major problem with it is that the Los Angeles Police 787 00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,960 Speaker 1: Department says they met her. Yeah, well, if she's dead, 788 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,080 Speaker 1: how do they meet her? Well, I mean I've seen 789 00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,400 Speaker 1: pictures of her and like, she it's not like she's 790 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,719 Speaker 1: looking that it would be hard to with the right 791 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:36,960 Speaker 1: makeup artist and some good sunglasses. I mean, she looks 792 00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:41,680 Speaker 1: kind of normal to me. She's not. They're just pictures 793 00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 1: of her, and they're all kind of like crappy pictures. 794 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,640 Speaker 1: You would be easy to just say even you know, 795 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,800 Speaker 1: like on the missing reports flyer or missing person's flyer, 796 00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,800 Speaker 1: the picture of her is like not good, like it 797 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,960 Speaker 1: could be any Like I have friends that could look 798 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,319 Speaker 1: like that for I mean, you know, well, and the 799 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,200 Speaker 1: cops would have never these police officers who went to 800 00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:06,400 Speaker 1: meet her would have never had occasion to meet her before. 801 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,359 Speaker 1: So the only thing they could go off as a photo, which, 802 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:14,160 Speaker 1: like you said, if I'm going to say a double, 803 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:19,000 Speaker 1: if there was a double, then we can say that 804 00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,239 Speaker 1: maybe this theory has some a leg to stand on. 805 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:26,480 Speaker 1: But that's that's really to me pushing it. I don't know, 806 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,040 Speaker 1: I guess for me, my big problem with this theory 807 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,000 Speaker 1: is that, like it's super easy, like okay, Like this 808 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,440 Speaker 1: is a very insular religion, right, with a lot of 809 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,000 Speaker 1: things that people don't understand. So it's easy to say, 810 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,360 Speaker 1: like it's part of our religion that like autopsies not 811 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,960 Speaker 1: happen on bodies, right, Okay, easy, And then it's very 812 00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:48,239 Speaker 1: easy to say, oh, she slipped and fell and it's 813 00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,440 Speaker 1: super tragic that she's dead. Now, I mean, it doesn't 814 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,000 Speaker 1: make sense for an organization to cover up a death 815 00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,280 Speaker 1: when you like to just like lie about her being alive, 816 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: for instance, right when it's so easy to be like, oh, 817 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,960 Speaker 1: she was having a hard time and mixed pills, or 818 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,520 Speaker 1: there's so many different accidental death things that could happen. 819 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,160 Speaker 1: You stage a car accident for Christ's sake. I mean, 820 00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:15,520 Speaker 1: like it's so easy to just have all of these things, 821 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,960 Speaker 1: especially for an organization or religion as large as scientology, 822 00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:25,840 Speaker 1: that like, even if her death was under mysterious circumstances, 823 00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,799 Speaker 1: you can make it look reasonable and then just say no, 824 00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,440 Speaker 1: you're not having an autopsy, we're going to cremate her 825 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,839 Speaker 1: and then that's it. She'll come back in another life 826 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:36,120 Speaker 1: and if she wants to tell you then then she'll 827 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,680 Speaker 1: tell you then. But I just I just have such 828 00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,080 Speaker 1: a hard time with the like, well, let's just yeah, 829 00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:45,239 Speaker 1: let's just carry on like she's alive. That for me, 830 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,439 Speaker 1: that's like the biggest part of it. I don't know. Yeah, 831 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,759 Speaker 1: And and also I think she's probably lie because you know, 832 00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:56,120 Speaker 1: the cops are you know, detectives and actually met her, 833 00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,719 Speaker 1: and you know they're not babes in the woods. These 834 00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,280 Speaker 1: guys realize that, you know, they probably had some way 835 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,080 Speaker 1: to verify that she was actually who she said she was. 836 00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:10,760 Speaker 1: How would be my only guest driver's do you think 837 00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,400 Speaker 1: that when you're when a cop is going to check 838 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,640 Speaker 1: on a missing person's report and the person shows up, 839 00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,879 Speaker 1: the first thing they do is whip out the ink path? 840 00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,440 Speaker 1: I think I think it just it depends on the situation. 841 00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,600 Speaker 1: I don't have the problem Joe has. I'll be honest 842 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,200 Speaker 1: with you. I mean, if somebody says, like, here's my idea, 843 00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,040 Speaker 1: and like, oh, I've lost a little weight and like 844 00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,520 Speaker 1: dyed my hair, it's I know it's weird, but it's 845 00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:41,279 Speaker 1: l A. So that's what happens. It happens, you know, 846 00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,600 Speaker 1: Like I definitely have had ideas in the past where 847 00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,200 Speaker 1: I've been like, well, I know, I've like lost twenty pounds. 848 00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,840 Speaker 1: It's like it doesn't really look like me so much anymore, 849 00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:50,920 Speaker 1: and they're like, we'll get a new one, and You're like, okay, 850 00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,680 Speaker 1: I will like it. If she has all of the 851 00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:57,560 Speaker 1: information of that person, she passes that person. I mean, 852 00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,360 Speaker 1: they could find somebody who looks just like have you 853 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,360 Speaker 1: seen pictures of her? Yeah? She It would be super 854 00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,799 Speaker 1: easy in LA especially to find somebody who looked like 855 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,040 Speaker 1: that to me at least. But the problem with this 856 00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,400 Speaker 1: is is that once you've once you've found this double 857 00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,239 Speaker 1: and you fool the police, then you have somebody you 858 00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:19,960 Speaker 1: have to murder. No, you pay her enough money, I mean, 859 00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,120 Speaker 1: like give her a couple of million dollars and or 860 00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:27,560 Speaker 1: if she's a member that's also the church, then I 861 00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,120 Speaker 1: mean there are ways to convince people that that's part 862 00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,600 Speaker 1: of their duties as a member. I mean, I don't 863 00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:36,920 Speaker 1: want to be labor this to what I'm saying, No, 864 00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:38,759 Speaker 1: none of us do, none of us like it. I'm 865 00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,120 Speaker 1: just saying that that creates another loose end. Even if 866 00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,240 Speaker 1: even if you paid her a million bucks, even remember 867 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,600 Speaker 1: the church. That's a big old loose end, it is. 868 00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,360 Speaker 1: And I think that there's no really, no real reason 869 00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,920 Speaker 1: to believe that she's dead personally because scientology, I mean, 870 00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:53,560 Speaker 1: whatever you say about it, and people say a lot 871 00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,319 Speaker 1: of bad stuff about it, there's no record of any 872 00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,840 Speaker 1: scientologists ever murdering anybody, not that, not that I know. 873 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:04,640 Speaker 1: But let's let's let's move Yeah, the church. We're going 874 00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:09,160 Speaker 1: to move forward to the next which is that the 875 00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:16,359 Speaker 1: church is telling the truth. It's completely possible that what 876 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,080 Speaker 1: they say is accurate. I know Devin is shaking her 877 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:27,640 Speaker 1: head there with me. Okay, we've already talked about how 878 00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:33,320 Speaker 1: much of Michelle's life was and is and was about 879 00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,799 Speaker 1: the Church. Here's what we need to consider is that 880 00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:40,120 Speaker 1: maybe it is it is true that she is working 881 00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,640 Speaker 1: in the background pursuing projects for them, and she just 882 00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:45,960 Speaker 1: doesn't want to be in the prying eyes of the 883 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,279 Speaker 1: press and the congregation. And bear with me. There's a 884 00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,319 Speaker 1: couple of things about the church that I want to 885 00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:57,280 Speaker 1: go into that may help explain some of this. We talked. 886 00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,400 Speaker 1: We've talked already about auditing that audit process. There's also 887 00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:05,839 Speaker 1: two other practices that I've I've read about. One is 888 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:12,720 Speaker 1: called introspection rundown and the other one is set check. Okay, 889 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:17,360 Speaker 1: these practices have been legally reviewed because people have raised 890 00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:21,600 Speaker 1: some concerns and issues about them, and there is allegations 891 00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:26,560 Speaker 1: that their processes that are used for indoctrination or re 892 00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:30,960 Speaker 1: indoctrination into the church. And it's possible that Michelle went 893 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,720 Speaker 1: through these processes. I'm not saying that she did, but 894 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:40,840 Speaker 1: here's what they are. Is introspection rundown is a process 895 00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:45,120 Speaker 1: that is used specifically to help with people who have, 896 00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:50,960 Speaker 1: according to the church, psychotic episodes. It could be construed 897 00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:56,280 Speaker 1: that her behavior prior to everything that happened at the 898 00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,880 Speaker 1: end of December of two thousand and six was us 899 00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:05,760 Speaker 1: iconic episode and she was treated for that. And after 900 00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,919 Speaker 1: she was treated, she took up another job in the 901 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:14,920 Speaker 1: church that had less stress. So the public and the 902 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,880 Speaker 1: job was too much. But do you have an idea 903 00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:23,400 Speaker 1: what introspection rundown actually is. It's it's a muddy mess. 904 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,200 Speaker 1: I don't want to go into it, but it is. 905 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:31,520 Speaker 1: It is something where the church uses some techniques to 906 00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:35,320 Speaker 1: help people that are having some psychotic issues, and I 907 00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,840 Speaker 1: didn't go too far into it, and I think, again, 908 00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:40,400 Speaker 1: this is one of those things that we've got to 909 00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,720 Speaker 1: kind of take the line of if you want to 910 00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:45,880 Speaker 1: really delve into it, I'm going to leave that up 911 00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:49,040 Speaker 1: to folks to go onto their own. But the other 912 00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,040 Speaker 1: thing that she could have gone through is the one 913 00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:56,160 Speaker 1: that we talked about called set check. And set check is, 914 00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,280 Speaker 1: according to my research and the things that I've come across, 915 00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:04,360 Speaker 1: is where the security personnel of the church will put 916 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:10,400 Speaker 1: people through repeated interrogations and there these interrogations are designed 917 00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:20,600 Speaker 1: to elicit confessions or repentance or even submission for deeds 918 00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:27,760 Speaker 1: and misdeeds to help you reset and come back to center. 919 00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,320 Speaker 1: So she could have gone through that, and maybe she 920 00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,280 Speaker 1: gave in, maybe it worked, I don't know, and then 921 00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,360 Speaker 1: based on that, they put her in another place outside 922 00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:42,080 Speaker 1: of everybody's perview. You're freaking out over there, I I am. 923 00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:43,960 Speaker 1: You're right, And there's a lot of things that I 924 00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:45,520 Speaker 1: want to say that I'm just going to go ahead 925 00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,720 Speaker 1: not say, but I do. Just you know, the problem 926 00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,880 Speaker 1: that I have with this is similar is that, like 927 00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:55,520 Speaker 1: you don't miss your friend's wedding because you're going through 928 00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:59,760 Speaker 1: this stuff, right, you appear for six years because of 929 00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:02,560 Speaker 1: the stuff. I don't think she's voluntarily going through this. 930 01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:07,920 Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like sex check is something that you voluntarily. 931 01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:14,240 Speaker 1: But if the whatever she went through, whatever process, if 932 01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,760 Speaker 1: she went through some kind of process, she came to 933 01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,000 Speaker 1: a revelation. So let's just run down this this avenue. 934 01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,120 Speaker 1: She comes to a revelation of these are the things 935 01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,880 Speaker 1: that she needs to do. And I'm going to use 936 01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,240 Speaker 1: this phrase and it might light some people's hair on 937 01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:33,600 Speaker 1: fire to repent for her misdeeds against the church and 938 01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:38,360 Speaker 1: her husband. Then she needs to serve the church, and 939 01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:41,600 Speaker 1: she needs to do it in her way. We I 940 01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:48,480 Speaker 1: mean there's historical accounts of people joining churches and abandoning 941 01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:54,680 Speaker 1: everyone they know and leaving everything they know behind and 942 01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:58,760 Speaker 1: I mean convents or crusades or whatever it may be, 943 01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:04,280 Speaker 1: and going somewhere completely different and cutting off all communication 944 01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:09,360 Speaker 1: because that doesn't let them do what they need to 945 01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,440 Speaker 1: do for themselves and what they believe. I guess my 946 01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,880 Speaker 1: argument against that is that like, that's not the church 947 01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,800 Speaker 1: isn't then also telling the truth about that, right? I mean, 948 01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:22,400 Speaker 1: I think it's one thing to say, well, she's taking 949 01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:26,000 Speaker 1: like a backburner role. It's like totally normal. It's another 950 01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:30,160 Speaker 1: to say there were some problems and we've worked through 951 01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:33,120 Speaker 1: them and whatever. I think that there's just like more 952 01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,480 Speaker 1: explanation that you can do, and there's definitely a pr 953 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,720 Speaker 1: way to do it right. It's not like you're like, wow, 954 01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,320 Speaker 1: she had a mental breakdown and them like we cleansed 955 01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:43,600 Speaker 1: her and she's fine. Now, you know, I think that 956 01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:50,080 Speaker 1: you there are pr ways to say that. And but 957 01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:54,560 Speaker 1: but ere's ere's the thing we have seen so not 958 01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,720 Speaker 1: in the church, scientology, not in religion. Let's just spin 959 01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:01,760 Speaker 1: to politics for a second. We have seen things happen 960 01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:07,480 Speaker 1: in politics that were strange or untoward or whatever they were, 961 01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:12,440 Speaker 1: and somebody came in to do damage control, and the 962 01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:18,919 Speaker 1: initial description or explanation whatever, their their initial concept of 963 01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:25,840 Speaker 1: solving the problem was made it worse. But once that 964 01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:30,840 Speaker 1: was there, they were screwed. They had to try to 965 01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:36,160 Speaker 1: stick to it because the line is, here's my explanation. 966 01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,560 Speaker 1: Don't waiver from that, because if you waiver from it, 967 01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:41,760 Speaker 1: then you're opening up a bigger can of worms, and 968 01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,560 Speaker 1: you've gotta stick with it. I just think that, like 969 01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:49,400 Speaker 1: you can build on their initial thing, right, either initial 970 01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:52,800 Speaker 1: thing was while she's taking a back burner position, and 971 01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,600 Speaker 1: that's fine because you build on that. If this, like 972 01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:57,600 Speaker 1: you know, if she did go through sec check or 973 01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:01,440 Speaker 1: did do this introspection rundown is you know, essentially like 974 01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:04,240 Speaker 1: in the Scientology version of a convent, whatever that may be. 975 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,000 Speaker 1: Maybe she went back to sea, or maybe she you know, 976 01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:11,240 Speaker 1: there's so many different options that builds on the taking 977 01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:15,560 Speaker 1: a back burner, and it gives the public at least 978 01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:18,880 Speaker 1: more of a sense of a fleshed out story that 979 01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:22,120 Speaker 1: might be believable in real as opposed to like she's 980 01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,800 Speaker 1: taking backburner role. What I know, you want more information. Now, 981 01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,320 Speaker 1: there's no more information. She's just out of the public eye. 982 01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,320 Speaker 1: But but there there are a number of things within 983 01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,320 Speaker 1: the Church of Scientology and and for people in general. 984 01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:35,240 Speaker 1: I'm not going to make this just about the church 985 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,240 Speaker 1: where you want to keep things privately. I mean, again, 986 01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,680 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to defend if this is true, but 987 01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:46,400 Speaker 1: people have I mean, I have a private life. There 988 01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,320 Speaker 1: are things that I do in my life that I 989 01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:51,040 Speaker 1: don't want to talk about and I don't want other 990 01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,640 Speaker 1: people to know about. And so I just don't talk 991 01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:58,680 Speaker 1: about it, so it's conceivable to say, you know, yeah, 992 01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:02,720 Speaker 1: the world wants to screw the world. They don't get 993 01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:06,160 Speaker 1: to know. It's my life. I think there's a there's 994 01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:08,120 Speaker 1: an end to that though, right, And you don't get 995 01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,560 Speaker 1: to say that if you're the president of the United States, 996 01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,160 Speaker 1: for instance. Right, So if you're like the leader of 997 01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:16,760 Speaker 1: a large, powerful church, the pope doesn't get to say that. 998 01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:19,280 Speaker 1: The pope doesn't get to say, like, I don't know, 999 01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,000 Speaker 1: I just like took a sabbatical for whatever. I mean, 1000 01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:23,800 Speaker 1: you know. I think a great example is like the 1001 01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:26,560 Speaker 1: pope resigning, like you know, he couldn't just be like 1002 01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:28,080 Speaker 1: I just want to take like a more of a 1003 01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:31,120 Speaker 1: backburner role. He had to say, like, here are some 1004 01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:34,680 Speaker 1: specific reasons, and whether they are true or not, whether 1005 01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:36,720 Speaker 1: they were the main reasons or not. He came up 1006 01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,360 Speaker 1: with some reasons for that. So I think that's my 1007 01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:42,600 Speaker 1: big problem with this theory. I have problems with all 1008 01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:44,960 Speaker 1: the theories. I'll be honest with you. This theory is that, 1009 01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:49,240 Speaker 1: like you give, you give small specifics at the very least. 1010 01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,840 Speaker 1: If you're part of a public organization in the public 1011 01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:56,880 Speaker 1: eye for whatever reason, you're obligated. You have that obligation 1012 01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:00,480 Speaker 1: to your community to explain it a little bit at least. Well, 1013 01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:02,320 Speaker 1: and I know we've kicked the crap out of this, 1014 01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:06,640 Speaker 1: but do you have any final thoughts on this theory? Well, yeah, 1015 01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:11,439 Speaker 1: it's it's it's crap because you know, if yeah, yeah, 1016 01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:14,400 Speaker 1: if she was doing work in the background, you know, 1017 01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:16,760 Speaker 1: she's still in good terms with the church and everything 1018 01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:21,560 Speaker 1: and things are all everything's okay, okay. Meantime, meantime, there's 1019 01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,160 Speaker 1: all this stuff whirling around the internet saying, gee, what 1020 01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:28,320 Speaker 1: happened to Michelle. The simplest thing would be for the 1021 01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,520 Speaker 1: church to just produce her, you know what I mean, 1022 01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,440 Speaker 1: the church would just say, you know, and Michelle, I mean, 1023 01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:35,200 Speaker 1: you'll go call a press conference. Let it, just let 1024 01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,080 Speaker 1: everybody know you're okay. Just say hey, I'm cool. Men 1025 01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:41,360 Speaker 1: show up on TMZ. That's all you mean, like truly 1026 01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,120 Speaker 1: post one selfie and you're fine. Yeah. People are getting 1027 01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,200 Speaker 1: all twitchy about this, Michelle, So just get out there. 1028 01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:47,960 Speaker 1: And I gotta get you back out there a little bit, 1029 01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:51,040 Speaker 1: you know. And uh, and so there's just no conceivable 1030 01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:55,440 Speaker 1: reason for them to stonewall. I mean, I'm in agreement 1031 01:05:55,480 --> 01:06:00,120 Speaker 1: with you as well. This is a weird one we 1032 01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,400 Speaker 1: we have and this is a very short list of theories, 1033 01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:06,120 Speaker 1: but we are we're really going into him. Here is 1034 01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:13,320 Speaker 1: our final theory is that she's locked up somewhere. This 1035 01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,360 Speaker 1: this is far and away the most popular one, and 1036 01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:23,440 Speaker 1: it's with good reason. Your hair is on finding. Okay, 1037 01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:27,200 Speaker 1: all right, well again, I'm gonna I'm gonna lay out 1038 01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,760 Speaker 1: some some accountings and this is from the Vanity Fair 1039 01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,640 Speaker 1: article as well as a couple of other articles that 1040 01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:38,320 Speaker 1: I found online. Uh, and these are accounts from people 1041 01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,720 Speaker 1: who have left the church. We have a former church 1042 01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:46,120 Speaker 1: member by the name of John Brousseau, and he came 1043 01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:49,760 Speaker 1: forward and he said that Michelle is being held at 1044 01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:56,200 Speaker 1: a location. It's known as the Church of Spiritual Technology 1045 01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:59,640 Speaker 1: or the acronymic CST. Can't get rid of the acoryms. 1046 01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:04,800 Speaker 1: And it's located in north of San Bernardino, near Lake Arrowhead, 1047 01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:08,560 Speaker 1: which is in California, as most of their locations, their 1048 01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:13,080 Speaker 1: major locations are. And you might remember earlier when we 1049 01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,480 Speaker 1: were talking about some of the divisions, I had talked 1050 01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:19,280 Speaker 1: about the rd C, the one who uses legal uh 1051 01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:23,680 Speaker 1: motions to protect their rights and their copyrights. And all 1052 01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:28,640 Speaker 1: that well, all of that stuff is owned by CST. 1053 01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:33,760 Speaker 1: So R S t R r TC is defending what 1054 01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:37,880 Speaker 1: is owned by CST. And if you put write that 1055 01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:44,720 Speaker 1: all down sequentially on a piece of paper, it's crossword puzzled. Yeah. 1056 01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:50,080 Speaker 1: This campus, the one that's in uh near Lake Arrowhead, 1057 01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:55,840 Speaker 1: it's like five hundred acres. It's huge. It's a big 1058 01:07:55,920 --> 01:08:00,800 Speaker 1: campus and presumably quite a beautiful place if you've developed 1059 01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:06,520 Speaker 1: that much land for people to be at. Well, here's 1060 01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:10,480 Speaker 1: the thing. People refer to it. Uh we don't. They 1061 01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,240 Speaker 1: call it the whole, you know, as in when you're 1062 01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:15,720 Speaker 1: in prison and you're in the hole and you're in 1063 01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:21,040 Speaker 1: lock up the hole. That's not great. No, it's considered 1064 01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,639 Speaker 1: a place that people go to and they don't come 1065 01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:28,439 Speaker 1: back mail anybody who's there. Their mail and their phone 1066 01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:33,920 Speaker 1: calls are monitored. And I've seen pictures of the front 1067 01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:40,559 Speaker 1: gate and it's it's shocking because it's a wrought iron fence, 1068 01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:44,000 Speaker 1: which you think is nice, but it's got spikes inward 1069 01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:54,360 Speaker 1: and outward, mostly inward, which would further you're keeping people in. Yeah, okay, 1070 01:08:54,400 --> 01:09:00,000 Speaker 1: well let's go back to so um he according to him, 1071 01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:05,200 Speaker 1: the CST headquarters there's several buildings on this campus house 1072 01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:11,240 Speaker 1: they house workers, and those workers are archiving. UM. I mean, 1073 01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:14,519 Speaker 1: there's there's there's vaults as Joe had talked about in 1074 01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:18,280 Speaker 1: the beginning, where they're etching all of the words of 1075 01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:23,960 Speaker 1: l Ron Hubbard and storing them in titanium boxes for 1076 01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:33,599 Speaker 1: future generations. UM. There is also UM I apologize, it's 1077 01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,320 Speaker 1: it's amazing the things that are on this campus. They're 1078 01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:41,280 Speaker 1: according to another person who is named Dylan Gill, who 1079 01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,280 Speaker 1: has also left the church and was a member of 1080 01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:50,280 Speaker 1: Sea Org. Uh, Dylan Gill evidently oversaw the construction of CST. 1081 01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:55,120 Speaker 1: There's a log cabin primed and set up for the 1082 01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:59,200 Speaker 1: return of l Ron Hubbard, and there's also a structure 1083 01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:01,240 Speaker 1: that is set up for the v I p s 1084 01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:05,880 Speaker 1: such as David Misscabbage and guys like Tom Cruise and 1085 01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,040 Speaker 1: a couple of the other famous people that we've talked 1086 01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:13,439 Speaker 1: about to go in the event of nuclear armageddon. So 1087 01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:18,600 Speaker 1: it's just an underground bucker, it's not above ground. That 1088 01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:22,880 Speaker 1: seems kind of counter now stead of kind of interesting though. 1089 01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:25,599 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the rank and the file, the ranking, 1090 01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:28,799 Speaker 1: the rec and file, it's like your host, dude, sorry, 1091 01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:31,920 Speaker 1: it's just usking, our celebrity pal. Yeah, and a whole 1092 01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:36,320 Speaker 1: lot of booze that's actually not listening anywhere. It's interesting, 1093 01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:39,360 Speaker 1: actually the pictures of this place right as you're saying, 1094 01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:42,280 Speaker 1: it's like roar fence with whatever, and there's like one 1095 01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:46,040 Speaker 1: house on a hill and like that seems to be 1096 01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:53,680 Speaker 1: the only guy. Sure everything else is like underground or 1097 01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:59,120 Speaker 1: like weird cutouts or in the turf or whatever. So yeah, 1098 01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:02,919 Speaker 1: it probably is all a bunch of underground. And Rousseau 1099 01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:10,479 Speaker 1: says that he says that for seven years Michelle has 1100 01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:15,200 Speaker 1: lived and worked on the campus or the compound, whichever 1101 01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:19,559 Speaker 1: you want to call it, working to preserve those writings 1102 01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:24,479 Speaker 1: of l. Ron Hubbard. So it's it's possible that she 1103 01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,759 Speaker 1: was there at one point and then she went somewhere else. 1104 01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:32,439 Speaker 1: We don't know, but people have said that. I mean 1105 01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:34,400 Speaker 1: a lot of several people have come forward and said, no, 1106 01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:38,080 Speaker 1: she's there. I guess I I could see is like 1107 01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:41,519 Speaker 1: in a combination of that this theory and the previous theory, right, 1108 01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:44,120 Speaker 1: is that like, okay, so what she decided to do 1109 01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:46,960 Speaker 1: with her life is like become essentially like a monk 1110 01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:54,519 Speaker 1: transcribing the religions, well I transcription, you know, and so 1111 01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:56,840 Speaker 1: she just lives on this compound and like that's her 1112 01:11:56,880 --> 01:12:00,040 Speaker 1: life and that's fine. But then like but then in 1113 01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:02,479 Speaker 1: it's that question of like why wouldn't they just say, oh, 1114 01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:07,960 Speaker 1: that's what she decided to do that satisfies everybody's curiosity. 1115 01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:11,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I just you know, it could be too. 1116 01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:16,040 Speaker 1: Maybe she she accepted that life because the alternative was 1117 01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:19,559 Speaker 1: was banishment, complete banishment from the church. You know, it's 1118 01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:24,040 Speaker 1: for her what would have been maybe pretty dam Yeah. 1119 01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:27,360 Speaker 1: There's another possibility though, too, which is that her husband 1120 01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:28,840 Speaker 1: was basically sick of her and wanted to be rid 1121 01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:31,799 Speaker 1: of her, not necessarily for reasons that are her fault. 1122 01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:33,960 Speaker 1: Sounds like he's kind of I don't know, well, well 1123 01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:37,080 Speaker 1: hard to get along with. Yeah, it sounds like, yeah, 1124 01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:39,080 Speaker 1: uh so he might have just wanted to be rid 1125 01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:42,760 Speaker 1: of her, and so he might have just said, look, 1126 01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:45,240 Speaker 1: I want to leave the church because I just don't 1127 01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:47,200 Speaker 1: want to have anything to do with you anymore. So 1128 01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:49,000 Speaker 1: here's the deal. We'll send you a check for a 1129 01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:51,800 Speaker 1: couple hundred grand year so you can live comfortably. You 1130 01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:54,400 Speaker 1: go off somewhere well will establish you in a new identity, 1131 01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:56,599 Speaker 1: you go live wherever you want to live, will send 1132 01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:59,080 Speaker 1: the checks. And she just did that. She just left 1133 01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:03,360 Speaker 1: and took on a new identity. I mean people do it, yeah, 1134 01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:06,720 Speaker 1: because uh, and it might be it might well be 1135 01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:09,120 Speaker 1: that maybe they had some discussions and maybe she might 1136 01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:12,240 Speaker 1: have actually at this point have been thinking, you know, 1137 01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:18,120 Speaker 1: I really don't believe this stuff anymore, because here we're 1138 01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:22,920 Speaker 1: talking a yeah, yeah, because it would be hard to 1139 01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:25,320 Speaker 1: to be around and see all these abuses of power 1140 01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:29,439 Speaker 1: and it's really a kind of quasi totalitarian structure and 1141 01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:33,439 Speaker 1: nature of the church and not at some point see 1142 01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:37,240 Speaker 1: the basic clash with the original writings of l. Ron Hubbard. 1143 01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:40,120 Speaker 1: What she was talking about peace, love, dope and all 1144 01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:42,840 Speaker 1: that stuff, and you look at the actual behavior of 1145 01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:47,599 Speaker 1: the church brass and she was involved with she was 1146 01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:54,000 Speaker 1: she worshiped him, She she totally did. But it might 1147 01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,479 Speaker 1: have been that she was just totally disillusioned. I guess 1148 01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:01,320 Speaker 1: for me, that seems like something that happens earlier in life, 1149 01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:04,960 Speaker 1: you know, I think that, like and that's a generalization, 1150 01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:07,840 Speaker 1: to be sure, but it just kind of seems like 1151 01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:10,200 Speaker 1: you hit a point where you're just kind of committed 1152 01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:12,840 Speaker 1: to that, all right, you've made that marriage. Your whole 1153 01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:16,799 Speaker 1: life has been this thing. You're in it, and maybe, 1154 01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:19,200 Speaker 1: you know, maybe it was the kind of like abuses 1155 01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:23,559 Speaker 1: or like the aggression that she experienced from her husband 1156 01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:26,640 Speaker 1: or from you know, other people. I don't know, but 1157 01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:30,439 Speaker 1: it just kind of seems like you get disillusioned in 1158 01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:34,040 Speaker 1: your like early twenties, Like that's kind of the general 1159 01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:37,800 Speaker 1: time that like people leave teens in twenties. So I 1160 01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:39,760 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, Steve's shaking his head at me. 1161 01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:46,360 Speaker 1: I totally I have to totally disagree. And that's well, 1162 01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:52,280 Speaker 1: there's there's there's stories of people who are in religions 1163 01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:57,800 Speaker 1: or relationships that don't hit their breaking point until they're 1164 01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:02,559 Speaker 1: in their fifties, sixties, seventies, and then they finally come 1165 01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,719 Speaker 1: to the realization that what they think is no longer 1166 01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,720 Speaker 1: what is. So I'm not disagreeing with you that she 1167 01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:12,360 Speaker 1: may have become disillusioned, but I'm saying that doesn't necessarily 1168 01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:16,360 Speaker 1: always happen as a twenty or thirty something. Yeah, I 1169 01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:19,920 Speaker 1: guess this. This whole case is just like so frustrating 1170 01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:25,000 Speaker 1: to me because just the it's frustrating because the church 1171 01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:30,280 Speaker 1: just refuses to elaborate at all. You know. It's just 1172 01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:33,439 Speaker 1: like there are there are so many explanations and all 1173 01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:38,959 Speaker 1: of them could be totally reasonable if they would just say, oh, hey, 1174 01:15:39,160 --> 01:15:42,600 Speaker 1: one small, minor detail, but they're just like, now we 1175 01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:45,880 Speaker 1: said the one like tiny super can like it's just 1176 01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:49,400 Speaker 1: like this huge, like blanket statement. This is what we said, 1177 01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:51,040 Speaker 1: and that that's it. That's all you get. That's all 1178 01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:53,439 Speaker 1: you get about this person who has been like literally 1179 01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:58,000 Speaker 1: not heard from for seven six seven years, and that 1180 01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:00,160 Speaker 1: that's the thing that really bothers me is that it's 1181 01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:02,760 Speaker 1: just like, hey, we made this one blanket statement seven 1182 01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:06,120 Speaker 1: years ago, so you all should be good here. To 1183 01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:10,800 Speaker 1: me is one of the hardest facts to reconcile with, 1184 01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:14,480 Speaker 1: and it also in a way is the most heartwrenching. 1185 01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:22,640 Speaker 1: Is it's entirely possible that all of this is her decision. 1186 01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:28,960 Speaker 1: It is entirely possible that she has decided to do this, 1187 01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:36,080 Speaker 1: and whether she has put herself into exile intentionally or 1188 01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:39,200 Speaker 1: she is doing something that isn't a state of exile, 1189 01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:44,200 Speaker 1: if it's her choice, and from the things that I 1190 01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:49,000 Speaker 1: have read, she was not happy. The worst part is 1191 01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:52,000 Speaker 1: is that the person who could solve it the easiest 1192 01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:56,280 Speaker 1: is her by saying I'm done, and now we're kind 1193 01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:58,600 Speaker 1: of dealing with sort of a little minor variations I 1194 01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:01,080 Speaker 1: think on theory is I think a might a variation 1195 01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:03,200 Speaker 1: on on my theory, which is that he wanted her 1196 01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:06,720 Speaker 1: gone and paid her off. Another another possibility is that 1197 01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:09,320 Speaker 1: she suddenly realized that she couldn't deal with it anymore 1198 01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:15,280 Speaker 1: and she didn't believe it anymore, and she just And 1199 01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:18,719 Speaker 1: it might have been because well, here's here you got 1200 01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:20,599 Speaker 1: that would be kind of a blow to the church, 1201 01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:24,599 Speaker 1: because the wife of the head of the church leaves 1202 01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:28,080 Speaker 1: the church, and this would be, you know, shortly there 1203 01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:32,400 Speaker 1: thereafter followed by his niece leaving, and that's that's a 1204 01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:37,240 Speaker 1: double damaging bloo. Yeah, And so you know, they can't 1205 01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:39,000 Speaker 1: even if they have her locked up. It's kind of 1206 01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:41,720 Speaker 1: hard to keep somebody locked up forever. I mean, it's possible. 1207 01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:46,160 Speaker 1: But it might have been that they just thought, well, Okay, 1208 01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:49,679 Speaker 1: maybe what we're gonna do here is pay you off, 1209 01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:52,360 Speaker 1: get you a new identity, and you go somewhere and 1210 01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:58,160 Speaker 1: we just won't talk about it. Well, yeah, so I'm 1211 01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:03,759 Speaker 1: trying to No, it wasn't. The differences between my earlier 1212 01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:05,840 Speaker 1: one is that is that in the first. In the 1213 01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:08,759 Speaker 1: first one it was her husband's idea, he wanted you're gone. 1214 01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:14,679 Speaker 1: Another another it could be that she just wanted out 1215 01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,080 Speaker 1: really bad and that because you know, not only would 1216 01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:20,639 Speaker 1: it be damaging because she's the wife at the head 1217 01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:22,519 Speaker 1: of the church, but also she knows where the bodies 1218 01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:25,240 Speaker 1: are buried. And I mean that ephemistically, of course. You know. 1219 01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:32,639 Speaker 1: The big question mark in my mind is that, like, okay, 1220 01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:38,880 Speaker 1: so I just I can't imagine existing and hearing please 1221 01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:43,639 Speaker 1: from like good friends they're saying like, hey, where are you, 1222 01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:47,000 Speaker 1: Like we're worried about you, like what's going on, and 1223 01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:49,920 Speaker 1: just like ignoring it, you know what I mean. So 1224 01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,840 Speaker 1: like for me, there I guess a couple options. One 1225 01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:55,160 Speaker 1: is that like she's not hearing them because she's dead. 1226 01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:57,920 Speaker 1: One is that she's not hearing them because she's locked 1227 01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,280 Speaker 1: up or quarantine in isolation. And then you know, the 1228 01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:04,280 Speaker 1: third one just like wouldn't make sense to me, is 1229 01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:06,360 Speaker 1: that like she's hearing them and choosing to ignore them, 1230 01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:08,520 Speaker 1: because like you know, we've all been in those situations 1231 01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:10,040 Speaker 1: where we're like, well, I don't really want to talk 1232 01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:13,280 Speaker 1: to that friend. But if a friend is like, hey, 1233 01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,400 Speaker 1: we were super close and you literally have just dropped 1234 01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:18,160 Speaker 1: off the face of the earth, And I don't understand. 1235 01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:20,000 Speaker 1: Can you just like tell me you're okay, Like give 1236 01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:22,320 Speaker 1: me one sign that you're okay, and you're and that 1237 01:19:22,360 --> 01:19:25,160 Speaker 1: person is so worried about you for six years. Can 1238 01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:28,439 Speaker 1: you imagine just ignoring somebody who was like your best 1239 01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:32,200 Speaker 1: friend for a really long time, like for six years. 1240 01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:34,040 Speaker 1: That person is reaching out to you and saying, like, 1241 01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:36,280 Speaker 1: I just want to know you're okay. Like it's cool 1242 01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:38,120 Speaker 1: if you don't need to be friends anymore, that's fine, 1243 01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:40,160 Speaker 1: but like, I just want to know if you're okay. 1244 01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:42,320 Speaker 1: So for me, it's just those two theories of like 1245 01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:44,360 Speaker 1: she's not hearing it because she's dead, or she's not 1246 01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:46,400 Speaker 1: hearing it because she doesn't have access to it. You know, 1247 01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:49,160 Speaker 1: I just can't imagine being in that position, because it's 1248 01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:52,120 Speaker 1: not just one friend. Surely there are other people in 1249 01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:56,120 Speaker 1: the organization who are saying, like, hey, we miss Michelle. 1250 01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:58,400 Speaker 1: What's going on with her? Like we want to talk 1251 01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:02,200 Speaker 1: to her. It's hard to imagine, but there are There 1252 01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:08,519 Speaker 1: are plenty of examples of people who have left family 1253 01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:12,759 Speaker 1: members behind, whether it's one or all, and they still 1254 01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:18,240 Speaker 1: had contact and they still heard those please for contact, 1255 01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:23,160 Speaker 1: and they chose to ignore them, whether they were out 1256 01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:28,200 Speaker 1: of anger or guilt or whatever it may be, people 1257 01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:33,519 Speaker 1: do that. I guess my like, my big thing is 1258 01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:35,960 Speaker 1: like with um, what's her name, Leo, what's her name? 1259 01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:40,720 Speaker 1: The actress? Right? Yeah, yeah, so right. I can see like, 1260 01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:44,400 Speaker 1: if you want to stay in the church, you like 1261 01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:46,760 Speaker 1: you don't necessarily like talk to that those people who 1262 01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:49,320 Speaker 1: are in the church. But then when somebody leaves, you 1263 01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:51,400 Speaker 1: talk to that, you know, I think that there's there's 1264 01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:55,439 Speaker 1: so much room there. I don't know. But the thing 1265 01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:57,680 Speaker 1: about it is you don't know that she hasn't contacted 1266 01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:00,080 Speaker 1: Leo remaining. She wasn't close to very many people the 1267 01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:02,880 Speaker 1: church at all, from what I understand. At some point, 1268 01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:06,519 Speaker 1: um she could obviously if she's been paid off and 1269 01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:10,120 Speaker 1: told to disappear, then she was probably also best part 1270 01:21:10,120 --> 01:21:13,280 Speaker 1: of the agreement told she can't contact anybody. Yeah, that's 1271 01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,760 Speaker 1: certainly true. But I guess like the two people right 1272 01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:21,040 Speaker 1: would be like Lea Remini Thenice nice. But you don't 1273 01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:24,080 Speaker 1: know these people have these people have gone public and 1274 01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:26,639 Speaker 1: said that they want to know where she is. But 1275 01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:29,240 Speaker 1: Lea REMANI wasn't doing it for years and years and years. 1276 01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:31,559 Speaker 1: I mean, it was like, when does she start actually asking? 1277 01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:34,240 Speaker 1: It wasn't like in two thousand and seven, it was 1278 01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:37,719 Speaker 1: quite a while after. I don't remember when Tom Cruise 1279 01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:41,120 Speaker 1: got married, but at Tom Cruise's wedding, I think that's 1280 01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:45,360 Speaker 1: really got into hot water because she asked at the wedding, Yeah, 1281 01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:47,800 Speaker 1: where is she? Where is she? Yeah? Exactly, And so 1282 01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:50,640 Speaker 1: she probably asked a few times, and she asked a 1283 01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:54,000 Speaker 1: few times again, and Michelle, knowing, you know, hearing these 1284 01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:57,040 Speaker 1: reports and hearing about it, probably found a way to 1285 01:21:57,080 --> 01:21:59,479 Speaker 1: covertly contact her and let her know that she was okay. 1286 01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:03,400 Speaker 1: So but if she, if Michelle had contacted Lea remediing, 1287 01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:06,200 Speaker 1: then then after she was done reassuring it that she 1288 01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:08,519 Speaker 1: was okay, the next thing she would have said to 1289 01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:10,120 Speaker 1: her is, I want you to keep asking where the 1290 01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:12,639 Speaker 1: hell I am because they can't know that I've talked 1291 01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:15,880 Speaker 1: to you. And if you stop asking where where I am, 1292 01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:19,240 Speaker 1: They're going to smell a rat. So she might well 1293 01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:21,400 Speaker 1: have been in contact with Leader Remedians and a few 1294 01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:24,080 Speaker 1: of the people, but another in order to cover that up, 1295 01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:27,680 Speaker 1: they've got to keep asking the question. Yeah, I I 1296 01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:31,160 Speaker 1: really feel like we just took in drill a bunch 1297 01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:36,120 Speaker 1: of scribbles on a piece of paper and together I 1298 01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:38,320 Speaker 1: think we just did like a bunch of different dots 1299 01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:40,840 Speaker 1: and we were like connect them to something. I do 1300 01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:43,400 Speaker 1: want to say, Lea REMANI I I hope you find her, 1301 01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:45,320 Speaker 1: hope you've already found her, And what you need to 1302 01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:47,960 Speaker 1: do next time. Let's go file the missing person's complaint 1303 01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:50,120 Speaker 1: and when the technists go out to have an interview 1304 01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:53,519 Speaker 1: with her, you must insist on going along. That would 1305 01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:57,040 Speaker 1: that would solve our double issue. I don't know, It's 1306 01:22:57,080 --> 01:22:59,800 Speaker 1: just it's so huge and confusing, and this whole thing 1307 01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:04,920 Speaker 1: is just like a mess of like spaghetti monsters. Yeah, 1308 01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:08,880 Speaker 1: and and obviously unfortunately we haven't solved it. We definitely 1309 01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:12,000 Speaker 1: haven't solved Actually, I actually I'm gonna give Leo a 1310 01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:16,560 Speaker 1: little bit more advice, better ideas. Still detectives. The detectives 1311 01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:20,040 Speaker 1: have to bring her to see you, and that which 1312 01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:22,360 Speaker 1: means that she has to leave the compound. And if 1313 01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:25,320 Speaker 1: there's a problem with that, and for having for having six, 1314 01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:27,400 Speaker 1: why would there be a problem with her leaving the compound? 1315 01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:30,720 Speaker 1: And you know, then I'll come and see you and 1316 01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:32,439 Speaker 1: if there is a problem with leaving the compound, well, 1317 01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:36,400 Speaker 1: other textives can call him the swat team and that's 1318 01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:42,360 Speaker 1: that's yeah, No, I can't I that would work. Absolutely Well, 1319 01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:45,720 Speaker 1: We're gonna We're gonna stop with the story because I 1320 01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:48,560 Speaker 1: think that we have literally run down every alley and 1321 01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:52,519 Speaker 1: rabbit hole and conceivable that we could come up with. 1322 01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:54,840 Speaker 1: And however long we've been talking now I don't even 1323 01:23:54,840 --> 01:24:00,360 Speaker 1: know anymore. Um, if you have any thoughts on this story, 1324 01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:04,120 Speaker 1: you can, of course let us know. You can always 1325 01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:06,559 Speaker 1: go ahead and put a comment on our website. That 1326 01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:11,280 Speaker 1: website is thinking Sideways podcast dot com. At the same time, 1327 01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:14,479 Speaker 1: you can of course listen to and download episodes from 1328 01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:17,559 Speaker 1: the website. If you're not using that, you can of 1329 01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,840 Speaker 1: course use iTunes. If you're on iTunes, do take the 1330 01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:24,000 Speaker 1: time to leave a comment and a rating that helps 1331 01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:26,760 Speaker 1: other people find us and everybody. We're getting a bunch 1332 01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:30,519 Speaker 1: of new people and it's fantastic. We are on Twitter. 1333 01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:40,400 Speaker 1: Not super active on Twitter, but try, I will try. 1334 01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:44,880 Speaker 1: We are on Facebook. We have the Facebook page and 1335 01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:48,400 Speaker 1: the Facebook group, and we're having some I've been having 1336 01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:52,360 Speaker 1: some really fun discussions on there. There's a number of 1337 01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:55,080 Speaker 1: different places that you can stream the show. You can 1338 01:24:55,240 --> 01:24:59,920 Speaker 1: do it on Stitcher, there's uh FM something or other. 1339 01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:01,400 Speaker 1: I can't even think about it. I mean, there's a 1340 01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:06,200 Speaker 1: whole slew of places that were streaming online. And of course, 1341 01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:09,760 Speaker 1: if you're Michelle, you can always just send us an email. Yeah, 1342 01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:13,960 Speaker 1: I would love that. Actually that little spot. Maybe she 1343 01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:17,679 Speaker 1: all she has to do is listen to podcast. Maybe Hi, Michelle, 1344 01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:22,520 Speaker 1: you can send us an email at Thinking Sideways podcast 1345 01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:27,240 Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. And speaking of email, we do 1346 01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:30,080 Speaker 1: have one listener mail that I wanted to share. I 1347 01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:32,400 Speaker 1: know that this is a big episode. We normally don't 1348 01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:34,720 Speaker 1: do it, but it's a little pertinent to some things 1349 01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:38,200 Speaker 1: that are going on. So first off, this email is 1350 01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:42,000 Speaker 1: from Alyssa and she said that she, uh I found 1351 01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:45,000 Speaker 1: the podcast a while ago and it's my new favorite. 1352 01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:47,800 Speaker 1: I listened to him when I'm walking my dog and 1353 01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:49,920 Speaker 1: it keeps me entertained for an hour or so while 1354 01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:54,160 Speaker 1: she patrols the neighborhood, which I believe is code for 1355 01:25:54,720 --> 01:26:01,040 Speaker 1: uses the neighbor's law. But she, of course, you know, 1356 01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:03,880 Speaker 1: she likes the fact that there's a variety we're doing. 1357 01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:07,040 Speaker 1: Not only UFOs are missing persons, but we do the 1358 01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:10,360 Speaker 1: whole slew and anything and everything that we can come across. 1359 01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:13,280 Speaker 1: But she did bring up one concern that I wanted 1360 01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:17,519 Speaker 1: to talk to everybody about, which is that she wasn't 1361 01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:21,160 Speaker 1: able to download the episodes off of the website, like 1362 01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:25,800 Speaker 1: we have continually told everybody they could. I apologize, guys. 1363 01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:29,280 Speaker 1: It turns out the player that we were using, it's 1364 01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:31,320 Speaker 1: sort of broke at one point, and I'm not quite 1365 01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:35,120 Speaker 1: sure when. Uh, and she, as well as one or 1366 01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:38,240 Speaker 1: two other people, let me know this week. They all 1367 01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:40,160 Speaker 1: kind of came at once and said, Hey, this isn't 1368 01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:43,519 Speaker 1: working by the time this episode comes out. How do 1369 01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:46,639 Speaker 1: we fixed? We will replace the player and we will 1370 01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:49,120 Speaker 1: make sure that you're able to download the show. So 1371 01:26:49,439 --> 01:26:55,320 Speaker 1: sorry about that, but it's fixed now. When this happens. 1372 01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:58,439 Speaker 1: By the time you're hearing this, Yeah, in that couple 1373 01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:03,080 Speaker 1: of weeks, I'll have figured out a solution. Alright, you 1374 01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:07,080 Speaker 1: guys over alright. Well, that's all I've got on this, 1375 01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:13,799 Speaker 1: So thanks everybody, and we'll talk to you next week folks. Bye, guys.