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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Mollie John Fast, and this is Fast Politics, where

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Speaker 2: we discuss the top political headlines with some of today's

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Speaker 2: best minds, and Republican Chris Stewart plans to resign his

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Speaker 2: seat in Congress, shrinking Kevin McCarthy is majority. We have

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Speaker 2: a great show today. Egen Carroll and ROBERTA. Kaplans dot

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Speaker 2: by to talk about their victory against Donald Trump and

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Speaker 2: what it means to finally hold him accountable. Then we'll

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Speaker 2: talk to the Washington Post Jeff Stein about what actually

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Speaker 2: is in this big debt ceialing deal. But first we

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Speaker 2: have author of Lucky How Joe Biden barely won the presidency,

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Speaker 2: NBC's John Allen. Welcome back to Fast Politics, fan favorite

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Speaker 2: John Allen.

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Speaker 1: Mollie, John Fast, How are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm good.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about what's happening right now.

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Speaker 4: Republicans in the Rules Committee.

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Speaker 3: What's going to happen with the dead ceiling.

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Speaker 1: The dead ceiling is going to be raised. It's not

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Speaker 1: clear exactly who's going to vote for it, what the

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Speaker 1: process will be. But one good rule for watching Congress

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Speaker 1: is that if the Speaker of the House wants something

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Speaker 1: to happen and a majority of the members, not the

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Speaker 1: majority party, but a majority of the members want it

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Speaker 1: to happen.

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Speaker 2: It will happen, and I think also it looks like

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Speaker 2: in the Senate that's also.

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Speaker 1: True, no doubt about it. I mean, Mitch McConnell doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to have fights over there. There will be enough

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Speaker 1: votes to get it through the Senate. Look, there may

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Speaker 1: be some job over the next like twenty four seventy

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Speaker 1: two hours, but the truth is, it is very difficult

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Speaker 1: for somebody who wants to block this from happening to

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Speaker 1: actually block it from happening. The can delay, they can

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Speaker 1: throw up roadblocks, they get angry about it, but at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, the vast majority of members

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Speaker 1: of Congress want this thing done and off their plate,

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Speaker 1: and they want to make sure that the Knight's Nation

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Speaker 1: doesn't default. It's going to happen. I mean, anytime you

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Speaker 1: got Kevin McCarthy and Joe Biden Agreen on something, you

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Speaker 1: got you know, a broad swath of the American public

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Speaker 1: behind it too.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about what is in this dead ceiling.

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Speaker 1: What they're going to do is basically suspend it for

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Speaker 1: two years, so it won't be a problem until after

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Speaker 1: the next presidential election, so it won't be back in

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Speaker 1: the same spot six months from hour, a year from now.

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Speaker 1: They're going to basically put in place some spending caps

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Speaker 1: for distractionary spending, which is the annual spending that Congress

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Speaker 1: does on basically all the domestic programs you can think

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Speaker 1: of a non military spending. They are going to rescind

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Speaker 1: I think it's about twenty eight billion dollars of money

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Speaker 1: that was put out as COVID relief, you know, in

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Speaker 1: previous legislation. I think it's mix of what Biden thinks

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Speaker 1: getting of his presidency and some of the leftover from

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Speaker 1: the end of the Trump administration, and you know, a

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Speaker 1: few other bells and whistles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this seems like a victory for Biden.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he didn't have to make that many changes.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I Mean the one thing in this dead ceiling package

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Speaker 2: that people don't like is the mandatory work requirements with SNAP.

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Speaker 2: But those already existed, and the ages is pretty high

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Speaker 2: and there are a lot of exceptions. I mean, doesn't

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Speaker 2: it seem like a win for Biden?

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Speaker 1: So right, they're going from fifty to fifty five for

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Speaker 1: the age you would have to have work requirements for

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Speaker 1: a couple of per snap. But here's the thing. If

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Speaker 1: you were one of the people that all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden as work requirements that didn't before, it really sucks

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Speaker 1: for you. It's terrible. In terms of the actual population

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Speaker 1: that's going to a fact, it's pretty small. To your point,

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Speaker 1: their exceptions. The question of whether Biden won, absolutely Biden

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Speaker 1: one because the alternative of the nation going into default

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Speaker 1: and the economy potentially going into a tailspin on his

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Speaker 1: watch was politically unthinkable not to mention obviously for the

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Speaker 1: health of the economy and to help the country. So yes,

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Speaker 1: it's a win for him if this gets done. It

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Speaker 1: is also a win in theory for the country. Right,

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Speaker 1: he did give up more than he said he was

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Speaker 1: going to give up. He said he would never negotiate,

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Speaker 1: or said he wouldn't negotiate on raising the dead ceiling,

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Speaker 1: and he did do some negotiation. And there's some things

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Speaker 1: that progressives are going to be unhappy with here recording

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Speaker 1: those work requirements we talked about, But you know, at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, most of the Congress can

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Speaker 1: be able to vote for it, and it prevents what

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Speaker 1: could have been a catastrophic political situation providing So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a w for him. I don't know if it's

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing you know that people are a

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Speaker 1: year and a half from now going to vote on.

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Speaker 1: Say I'm going with Biden because the averted a debt

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Speaker 1: limit crisis, but for the NOS.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you might not vote for it, but

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Speaker 2: you certainly could theoretically vote against your economy being completely right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, had we saw when this first debt ceiling

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Speaker 2: drama happened in the Obama administration that our credit, our

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Speaker 2: national credit was downgraded and that really tanked the market,

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Speaker 2: so you could see how this could play out in

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Speaker 2: a bad way for the Biden administration, Well.

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Speaker 1: I could see how it would have they not come

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Speaker 1: to a deal. Yeah, I mean absolutely, I think you know,

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Speaker 1: potentially politically detaster. It's been on how long agoes I mean,

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Speaker 1: if it's a day or two beyond the default point,

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Speaker 1: it's probably not a big deal. But you know, if

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Speaker 1: they've been in an impast for a long time, you

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Speaker 1: could absolutely see you know, major major disruptions in the economy,

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Speaker 1: and ultimately, when people are upset with what's happening in

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Speaker 1: the world, they tend to vote against people in power.

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Speaker 1: It is easier to throw a president out than to

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Speaker 1: throw a Congress out, because the House of Representatives divides

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Speaker 1: its districts up in ways that make it very difficult

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Speaker 1: to lose general collections. Right right, there's only a handful

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Speaker 1: of districts they're competitive, you know, which puts Biden. And

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Speaker 1: also there's sort of a collective way into the Congress,

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Speaker 1: even a collective partisan blameing. I here to say, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's the Republican that this doesn't necessarily mean people take

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Speaker 1: it out on their individual number. Whereas the President of

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Speaker 1: the United States lives, lives and dies politically on you know,

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Speaker 1: how the country is doing when he comes up for

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Speaker 1: election the next time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So let me ask you about what

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Speaker 2: else we're going to see. Now, we're going to see

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Speaker 2: this dead ceiling situation continue on, and then really Congress

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Speaker 2: is going to leave.

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Speaker 1: Right, you should not expect a whole lot to get

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Speaker 1: done between now and the twenty twenty four election. I

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Speaker 1: mean there will be some low hanging group Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 2: Wait, I thought we were going to say this summer,

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Speaker 2: not the twenty twenty four election.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's some that they that they probably will

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Speaker 1: work on and maybe they'll get some deal on, you know,

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Speaker 1: a new farm bill or something. But like with the

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Speaker 1: Republican House at place, can be very difficult for her.

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Speaker 1: Anything done legislatively but sort of an agenda item for him,

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Speaker 1: you know, which is which is why I think you're

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Speaker 1: going to hear the White House once this is sign sealed,

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Speaker 1: delivered probably talk about, you know, a big accomplishment in

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Speaker 1: getting it done. It is not an accomplishment in the

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Speaker 1: way of life. You know, an infrastructure bill and you

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Speaker 1: see like you know, construction site and bridges going off,

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Speaker 1: things like that. But there aren't going to be a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of probably you're not going to be a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of wind sticks out over the next eighteen

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Speaker 1: months for the White House or for anybody else for that.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 4: That's very dysfunctional.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the swamp.

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Speaker 2: We are going to see these Supreme some Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: decisions come down because June is Supreme Court season. That

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Speaker 2: will very likely have reverberations in the twenty twenty four election.

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Speaker 2: If history is any guide.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean estreating a guide. We saw a reverberation

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Speaker 1: and Dons in the last election. Cycle, and that decision

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Speaker 1: still reverberating now where you're seeing as states actually start

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Speaker 1: to implement their new freedom to restrict abortion, and there

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Speaker 1: is a race to put on the most extreme restrictions

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Speaker 1: along Republicans, and in the case of Brondosaantis is in

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Speaker 1: that group, and also in the group of Republican presidential

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Speaker 1: with a six week abortion band that he likes to

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Speaker 1: talk about in Iowa and doesn't like to talk about another.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about Iowa. Everyone of the Republican the not

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Speaker 2: Trump lane, which is like the California highways, says them.

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Speaker 2: At this point, everyone in the not Trump lane is

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Speaker 2: in Iowa, and Trump is in Iowa too.

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Speaker 1: It's not a way in that non Trump lane. It's

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Speaker 1: more like an ocean, a non Trump ocean of candidates

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Speaker 1: that is somehow growing. I don't know if that has

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Speaker 1: to do with melting ice caps or some other phenomenon,

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Speaker 1: but you know, we're looking at Mike Pen's probably getting

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Speaker 1: in pretty soon. We're looking at Chris Christy probably getting

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Speaker 1: in pretty soon, possibly christinued, maybe Glenn Young. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of people looking at getting into

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Speaker 1: this race, all of which says that they're not convinced

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Speaker 1: that Trump will win, and they're not convinced that the

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Speaker 1: Santis will be the best alternative once voters have a

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Speaker 1: chance to look at people. As far as Iowa goes,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have the Stantus there tomorroorrow and the following day.

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Speaker 1: Trump's going to be there Tomorrow and the following day.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it's a holiday week, so I'm bad on

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Speaker 1: my days, but they're gonna be there Wednesday and Thursday.

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Speaker 1: Trump's doing a Hannity Fox town Hall from Iowa from

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Speaker 1: Des Moines on Thursday. By that point, the Santas will

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Speaker 1: already be headed toward New Hampshire, where he's got a

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Speaker 1: I think it's a four stop swing on Thursday, and

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Speaker 1: then South Carolina on Friday. But Iowa is one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent the center of the Republican political universe right now.

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Speaker 3: But Democrats are not going to Iowa.

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Speaker 1: That's because the president in search of renomination without Plum,

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Speaker 1: deciding that he was going to exchange the calendar and

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Speaker 1: make it help him as much as possible, which having

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Speaker 1: watched politics we is not terribly shocking. I wen't want

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Speaker 1: to go to Iowa, where he has never gotten off

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Speaker 1: the ground. Politically, there are plenty of reasons not do

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Speaker 1: Iowa as your first state, especially to part you know,

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Speaker 1: with the diverse party. Iowa is not a particularly diverse state.

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Speaker 1: But in the case of Joe Biden, moving Iowa out

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Speaker 1: of first made it less likely that he would have

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Speaker 1: a significant challenge to his renomination.

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Speaker 2: We're going to start seeing this Republican primary field have

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Speaker 2: debates coming up soon, right starting in.

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Speaker 1: August August in Milwaukee there or be Donald Trump, because

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is not committed to going to the debate,

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Speaker 1: which raises the possibility that, like you know, Desantus, goes

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Speaker 1: out there with a bunch of other candidates and they

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Speaker 1: beat up on him instead of beating up on the proprunner.

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Speaker 3: Does that seem likely to you? It seems likely to make.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like Trump's in the mood to debate

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Speaker 1: in August, so I mean he told her, he told

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party didn't want to debate in August, and

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Speaker 1: they went ahead and schedule then anyway, so he will

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Speaker 1: or won't show up. Like my guest is, he will

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Speaker 1: find a way to get themselves significant attention during that

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Speaker 1: time period, whether it's on the stage or not.

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Speaker 4: When will we see Republican primary voting early.

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Speaker 1: Next year in Iowa. I don't believe the actual date

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Speaker 1: that check, but I mean the first part of the

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Speaker 1: year next year anywhere maybe get that worry.

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Speaker 2: I mean, do you think there's a chance to stop

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Speaker 2: Trump at this lay to date?

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Speaker 1: It's very difficult to say that there's no chance that

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Speaker 1: Trump will be stopped a given that we're so far away,

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Speaker 1: given that he's facing a trial in Manhattan, possible trial

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Speaker 1: in Georgia, possible trials in Washington, DC. Ateral level, I

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Speaker 1: think it's way too early to say that this race

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Speaker 1: is over. On the other hand, I do think that

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Speaker 1: there was a theory of the case of an alternative

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Speaker 1: to Trump that has kind of been blown apart. Theory

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Speaker 1: of the case was most Republicans are done with Trump.

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Speaker 1: They think enough of Trump, they want to turn the corner,

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Speaker 1: and all somebody else has to do is consolidate the

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Speaker 1: non Trump vote to win. And right now, Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: has a majority of Republicans in pretty much every national poll,

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Speaker 1: which means that you could collect all of the non

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Speaker 1: Trump vote right now and still lose. I think some

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Speaker 1: of those people are up for grabs. They weren't with

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Speaker 1: them before they're with them now can be people that

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Speaker 1: moved back to another candidate, But that theory that, you know,

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Speaker 1: if there was just one running against him, it would

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Speaker 1: definitely be that person that has fallen by the wayside.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and again we don't know what's going to happen,

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Speaker 2: but it certainly feels like that this has gone exactly

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Speaker 2: as Trump would have liked it too.

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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, And I think that, you know, the the

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Speaker 1: other piece of that is now that he has a majority,

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Speaker 1: what it means is anybody who's going to beat him

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Speaker 1: has to take a bunch of his base. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: been a challenge. Nobody's been able to do that so far.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't mean somebody could do in the future. But I

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Speaker 1: think the only way to speak to that base is

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Speaker 1: to like defeat Trump in some visible, tangible way, whether

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Speaker 1: that's in debates or in states or whatnot. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of the Trump based looks at

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Speaker 1: him as the toughest customer in the room, and the

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Speaker 1: way to get to the hearts of the folks who

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Speaker 1: care most about that is probably to show that you're

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Speaker 1: a toper customer and Trump and that is no easy feat.

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Speaker 2: I mean again, just to go back to history for

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Speaker 2: a minute, Hillary Clinton won those debates.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you were scoring in like a traditional sense,

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Speaker 1: hillary Clinton won the debates or won the shed of them,

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Speaker 1: right collectively, certain high points for Trump within that set

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Speaker 1: of three debates. On the other hand, what Trump did

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Speaker 1: was he delivered the messages that he wanted to to

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Speaker 1: the audiences that he wanted to deliver them. So again,

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Speaker 1: if you're scoring in you know, sort of a traditional

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Speaker 1: the points are like a fencing contest, and you know

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Speaker 1: what the rules are for scoring, you'd say that Hillary

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Speaker 1: Quinton won. But you know, Donald Trump brought a shotgun

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Speaker 1: instead of an a p or instead of a foil

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Speaker 1: to the offensing. So it's a little harder to judge

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Speaker 1: in traditional terms.

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Speaker 2: Right, there's a precedent for Donald Trump losing a debate

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Speaker 2: and still winning a nomination or winning the contest.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's possible for him to win, even if it

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Speaker 1: looks to anybody who's watched the step before that he lost. Also,

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Speaker 1: just a real quick question, does anybody ever use that

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Speaker 1: four letter word for a fencing sword meat meat for

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Speaker 1: anything other than the New York.

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Speaker 4: Times prosper puzzle noe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, I apologize for coining a charm on.

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Speaker 4: Podcast John Allen, please come back whenever you ask.

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Speaker 2: Egene Carroll is a journalist, author, and advice columnist.

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Speaker 4: ROBERTA.

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Speaker 2: Kaplan is a lawyer focused on commercial litigation and public interest.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back, Egen, and welcome Robbie.

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Speaker 4: Hello, Hello, Hello, really good to be here.

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Speaker 2: Very excited to have you both here to talk about

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Speaker 2: the case. Egen, you're like the only person who has

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Speaker 2: managed to hold Trump accountable in any way.

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Speaker 5: It's astonishing may that what you just said is true.

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Speaker 5: And the reason it is true is because Robbie Kaplan,

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Speaker 5: for four straight years has stood up to every single

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Speaker 5: one of his wrangling moves, and she got us to trial.

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Speaker 5: She got us in front of nine jurors. They heard

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Speaker 5: our truth and we want It's an astonishing accomplishment, and

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Speaker 5: we hope other people follow in our footsteps, right, Robbie,

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Speaker 5: to do.

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Speaker 2: Robbie, I wanted to ask you when Egene came to you,

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Speaker 2: and again full disclosure came to you through George.

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Speaker 4: I knew there.

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Speaker 2: Have been other times when he's had lawsuits that haven't

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Speaker 2: worked out for him, but where he's actually really been

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Speaker 2: held accountable. How did you approach this case that led

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Speaker 2: to your success.

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Speaker 6: So when my son was little, one of the favorite

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Speaker 6: books that he had that I like to read to

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Speaker 6: him was called A Dog with a Bone. It had

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Speaker 6: good rhymes, but I don't think that's the only reason

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Speaker 6: I liked it. There is something about that in my nature.

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Speaker 6: It's probably both bad and good. I can often be

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Speaker 6: like a dog with a bone, and here in this case,

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Speaker 6: I think it's fair to say that the entirety of

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Speaker 6: our law firm, Kaplain Hacker and Think kind of stuck

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Speaker 6: to it no matter what happened, no matter what the

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Speaker 6: ways we were writing were, whether high or low, we

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Speaker 6: just kept at it, and ultimately we got to where

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Speaker 6: we are today with a trial and the jury verdict.

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Speaker 5: In Egene's paper, Robbie Kaplan is relentless.

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Speaker 4: Relentless.

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Speaker 5: She's that way in her good humor, She's that way

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Speaker 5: in her enjoyment of a good dinner. She's that way

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Speaker 5: in court, that way. I saw her give wedding vows

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Speaker 5: the other day. She married two very fortunate people, and

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Speaker 5: she was relentless in making sure that she sent them

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Speaker 5: off to have a very happy, happy marriage. I mean,

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Speaker 5: the woman she doesn't stop.

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Speaker 2: So you've had a lot of success, Robbie with the

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Speaker 2: Defensive Marriage Act.

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Speaker 6: Yes, it's to be the tenth year nid versa in

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Speaker 6: January twenty sixth, United States v.

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Speaker 4: Windsor.

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Speaker 2: But we never got ROW codified in Congress. But we

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Speaker 2: did get same sex marriage codified in Congress. Do you

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Speaker 2: think that that was because of this? Do you think

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Speaker 2: that was some connection because of what? Because of you

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Speaker 2: winning in the Supreme Court?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I look, I think two things happened.

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Speaker 6: One the Windsor case, and Edie Windsor, who sadly is

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Speaker 6: no longer with us, was the perfect plainiff to bring

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Speaker 6: that claim in a way that's very similar to Egene

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Speaker 6: was the perfect plainiff against Donald Trump. And I can

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Speaker 6: explain that, but they really were both perfectly situated to

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Speaker 6: bring the claims that they brought. And I think through

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Speaker 6: the litigation of Windsor to the American people really saw,

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Speaker 6: which was our goal, that the marriage that Edie Windsor

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Speaker 6: had to her spouse, the Aspire, was no different than

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Speaker 6: any marriage anyone else ever had, and maybe in a

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Speaker 6: lot of ways better, since by the time of her

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Speaker 6: death was a quadric beleegic and Edie spent many years

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Speaker 6: taking care of her. After we won Windsor, there was

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Speaker 6: really a groundswell of litigation. I remember the first case

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Speaker 6: was in Utah, of all places, where courts were saying

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Speaker 6: that under the logic of Windsor, we have to allow

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Speaker 6: same sex marriages to happen. And I think what happened

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Speaker 6: there is just the sheer numbers. The sheer numbers of

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Speaker 6: people getting married, gay people getting married, and the resulting

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Speaker 6: public acceptance made it impossible, I think for things to

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Speaker 6: get turned back. Now, one could argue, while I'm sure

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Speaker 6: you're thinking this, why isn't the same thing true with abortion?

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Speaker 6: It sures how should be even the poll numbers we're

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Speaker 6: seeing today, But we are starting to see similar situations

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Speaker 6: in terms of states and various local elections really going

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Speaker 6: very strongly against the anti choice candidates. So maybe we're

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Speaker 6: just at the beginning of the process. Sadly there.

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Speaker 2: So the Trump deposition, I've heard you say this in interviews,

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Speaker 2: but I need to ask you, Robbie, did you know

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Speaker 2: you had.

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Speaker 6: Him Well, yeah, we were feeling pretty good about what

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Speaker 6: he was saying in the deposition.

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Speaker 2: I remember I'm speaking about that moment when he mistakes

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Speaker 2: Eugene for marlaw Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I was astounded by it. And when you read

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Speaker 6: the transcript and if you watch the video, it was

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Speaker 6: very clear that it wasn't a up by me in

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Speaker 6: any way. I wasn't trying to trick him. He mentioned

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Speaker 6: the photograph, which he said he saw at the time,

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Speaker 6: and I said, well, let me show you a copy.

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Speaker 6: I think I have one year to confirm, and that's

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Speaker 6: when he pointed to Egene and said it was Marlowe.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. We were pretty stunned. I literally, I think almost

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Speaker 4: fell off my seat.

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Speaker 6: Our job as lawyers was not to show any shock

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Speaker 6: or surprise, and we certainly tried very hard not to

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Speaker 6: show it. But I can tell you that when we

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Speaker 6: took the next break, there was a lot of celebration

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Speaker 6: in high fives going on among the lawyers on our team,

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Speaker 6: for sure.

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Speaker 4: And of course Molly.

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Speaker 5: I think the main reason why Trump did not show

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Speaker 5: up for the trial was that Robbie had the deposition

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Speaker 5: and if he took the stand, it would have been pure,

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Speaker 5: unadulterated murder. I don't know how he could have testified

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Speaker 5: at all with Robbie giving him the questions. Mali, when

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Speaker 5: you read that deposition. You'll see trap after trap that

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Speaker 5: he fell into. It was an amazing seven hours or

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Speaker 5: however many What happened.

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Speaker 4: When about lunch at mari A Lago? What was going

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Speaker 4: on there? That was the other case, So it actually

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Speaker 4: had been there the week before.

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Speaker 6: Right for another case that our firm has against Trump.

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Speaker 6: It's based on a pyramid scheme, a multi level marketing

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Speaker 6: scheme that we believe he fraudulently promoted to working class

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Speaker 6: Americans at that lunch. Let me put it this way,

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Speaker 6: he got very angry at his lawyers because they had

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Speaker 6: graciously offered to provide us with launch at mar A

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Speaker 6: Lago and he didn't know that, and he was not

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Speaker 6: at all happy about it. I'm not going to get

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Speaker 6: into any more detail than that, but he was not

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Speaker 6: a happy camper when he realized that they had made

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Speaker 6: that offer to us.

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Speaker 2: Egene, I want to ask you when you saw that picture.

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Speaker 2: I think of you at that period so much, because

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Speaker 2: you know, that was the period when I was growing up,

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Speaker 2: when my mother was, when you and my mother were close.

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Speaker 2: When you saw that picture, did you remember when that

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Speaker 2: was taken and some of the color around it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Joe Takopia, who He's an amazingly likable fellow. But she

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Speaker 5: made it out like I had kept this photo and

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Speaker 5: on an altar, and then I had worshiped this photo daily.

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Speaker 5: What had happened is when I was writing the book

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Speaker 5: where I just.

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Speaker 4: Wait, wait, do you mean that wasn't true.

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Speaker 5: I was looking because I wrote, remember that little book.

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Speaker 4: Called what do we Need Men For?

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Speaker 3: Men For?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was looking for cheerleading pictures and I stumbled

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Speaker 5: on it in an album and I thought, oh my god.

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Speaker 5: Then I remembered that it was probably back taking at

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Speaker 5: the time when I was writing for Saturday Night Live,

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Speaker 5: because I'm with John Johnson, one of the great guys,

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Speaker 5: you know, an anchorman on TV and your ex husband

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Speaker 5: and my ex husband, a great guy, as Trump said,

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Speaker 5: a great guy, bad labor, John Johnson, and so I

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Speaker 5: was very pleased to find it.

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Speaker 4: But I completely stumbled on it.

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Speaker 5: Hadn't even remembered that I had it, didn't remember it

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Speaker 5: being taken, and I did remember meeting mister and missus

440
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 5: Trump at the time, but I didn't really I couldn't

441
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 5: quite recall that there.

442
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,640
Speaker 4: Was a photo of it. So yeah, I was very

443
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 4: happy to see it.

444
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 2: I want to ask you both about the jury selection.

445
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 2: It's such an interesting case because you did have a

446
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 2: jur and later in reporting I saw Robbie that you

447
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 2: guys tried to get him taken off the jury, right.

448
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 4: I sure did, and we failed completely, But yes, can

449
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 4: you talk.

450
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 2: About that because that germ when I heard he was

451
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 2: an avid Timpoole watcher. Timpoole is a far right podcaster,

452
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 2: right right.

453
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 4: Let me back up.

454
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 6: So Judge Chaplin has a practice of doing jury selection

455
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 6: in civil cases a little bit like speed dating.

456
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,120
Speaker 4: There's a whole bunch of people.

457
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 6: In the room and he asked kind of like a

458
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 6: lightning round of questions of each jur with all the

459
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 6: other jurors there, and it goes very fast, and you

460
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 6: know he's intending to be as efficient as possible in it.

461
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 4: Understandable. So the guy in question, the juring question who

462
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 4: to this day I have no idea what his name is.

463
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 6: That he was asked where he got his news from,

464
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 6: and both we and the court reporter and a bunch

465
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 6: of other people thought we heard him say Temple, a

466
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 6: podcast called Temple or something like that, right, And ironically,

467
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 6: he was wearing a black jacket and black pants, and

468
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 6: I thought.

469
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 4: Well, maybe he's an Orthodox Jew. It didn't even occur.

470
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 6: To me that there was anything going on, and we

471
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 6: made the strikes that we made, and he was not

472
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 6: one of the people that we struck then, so I

473
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,719
Speaker 6: think in the Daily Beasts there was an article written

474
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 6: that said that actually the reporter there had heard it correctly.

475
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 6: It turns out had heard him too, have been saying Timpoole,

476
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 6: who is a He doesn't think he's extreme, but he's

477
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 6: a pretty extremist kind of alt right type guy who

478
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 6: has a very popular podcast on YouTube.

479
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 4: So we immediately brought that up to the judge.

480
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 6: Everyone agreed that the mistake was mutual in the sense

481
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 6: that no one had heard that other than the Daily

482
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,719
Speaker 6: Beast guy, and the judge held a series of proceedings

483
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 6: to decide what to do. The juror answered a number

484
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 6: of questions, and I think Judge Kaplan correctly held that

485
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 6: based on his answers, there was no basis for what's

486
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 6: called up for cause challenge. That he had said he

487
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 6: could consider the evidence fairly and he would consider it fairly,

488
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 6: and we now know it turns out that's what he did.

489
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 6: But we did make a motion based on the fact

490
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 6: that he said that he listens to this podcast to

491
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 6: exclude him because the podcast had not only it's not

492
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 6: only pretty alt right, but it specifically said some things

493
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 6: pretty negative about Egene.

494
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 4: Carroll, which didn't make us very happy either.

495
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 6: But we to this day, the guy said he didn't

496
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 6: recall hearing any of those podcasts.

497
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 4: And to this day, I believe that he did it,

498
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 4: you know, Robbie.

499
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 5: Judge Kaplan was also correct about one another, saying when emally,

500
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 5: when he gave the jury instructions before they left to

501
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 5: go make up their minds, he said it was around

502
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 5: eleven thirty when he was giving instruction, right, Robbie, around

503
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 5: eleven thirty in the morning. Yeah, And he said, now

504
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 5: you're going to break for lunch, and if you come

505
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 5: to a decision during lunch, you should send a note.

506
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 5: I'm rolling my eyes. I'm thinking these jury members are

507
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 5: such a mystery to us that there were no way,

508
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 5: no way they're going to come to any sort of

509
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 5: decision about anything during lunch. And then we went off

510
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 5: to lunch, and then Robbie, what happened?

511
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then they came back like it took him.

512
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 6: It was less than two and a half hours really

513
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 6: with lunch breaks, but they came back in two and

514
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 6: a half hours.

515
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 4: Were you shocked at how quickly I could hardly stand up? Yeah,

516
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 4: we were all shocked.

517
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 6: I mean, there was a lot of fear on our part.

518
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 6: I think I don't think anyone on our team thought

519
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 6: that we lost, but we were very worried that they

520
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 6: were going to you know, you can give a defamation

521
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 6: plan of a dollar, like a symbolic dollar, right, and

522
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 6: we were very worried that that was going to be

523
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 6: the end result because we couldn't figure out how they'd

524
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 6: had enough time to come up with damages. The one

525
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 6: thing that was really clear, given the amount of time

526
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 6: that they've spent, or the relatively small amount of time

527
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 6: that they spent deliberating, is it must have been that

528
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 6: when they came in they had all made up their minds.

529
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 6: It doesn't sound like they spent all that much time

530
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 6: arguing about the merits, right.

531
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 5: It's amazing, amazing, Molly, I've never been through anything like that, Molly.

532
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 6: My partner Sean Prowley, who did the trial with me,

533
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 6: just walked into my office.

534
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 4: You might if she joined us?

535
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 3: Yeah?

536
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 4: Please?

537
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: I was wondering if either of you, Robbie Sean wanted

538
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 2: to just talk a little bit about what it means

539
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 2: to have opened the door to defamation and what that

540
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: could mean for other plaintiffs.

541
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 4: Let me begin and then everyone else should fill in.

542
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 6: So when you think about what happened here, what Donald

543
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 6: Trump did to each and Carroll, and she explained this

544
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 6: beautifully while on the stand. Obviously he heard her terribly

545
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 6: when he sexually assaulted her, and there's no question about that.

546
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 6: But in terms of the harm, the lasting harm, or

547
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 6: the harm that had the most dramatic impact, it was

548
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 6: the defamation because by going out in June twenty seventeen

549
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 6: and saying that she was a nutjob and it was

550
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 6: a hoax and she was doing a part of a

551
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 6: conspiracy with you, Molly and George Conway and a whole

552
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 6: bunch of other people, that she just made it up,

553
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 6: he destroyed her reputation. Egene spent her career as a

554
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 6: journalist and an advice columnist, someone that readers turned to

555
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 6: for the truth and for honest, candid advice, and so

556
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 6: to say that that person it was a wet job

557
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,239
Speaker 6: was horribly damaging and Egene lost her job, and there

558
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 6: were all kinds of kind of reverberations from that, and

559
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 6: to this day, there's a significant percentage of the American

560
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 6: population who thinks she is exactly what Donald Trump says

561
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 6: she is right. So we knew our original case was

562
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 6: only a defamation case, and we knew going in that

563
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 6: the greatest damage was defamation. Now, ironically, of the various

564
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 6: defamation claims, the greatest damage is the case that's still

565
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 6: to be decided, or at least still to be decided

566
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 6: on damages, which is the original case, which we call

567
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 6: Carol One, because that relates to the statements that he

568
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 6: made that summer of twenty seventeen, and that's where the

569
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 6: greatest damage was done to Egene's reputation. The expert that

570
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 6: we use who took the stand in Egene's trial, has

571
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 6: calculated that they're the damage figures somewhere in the range

572
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 6: between ten and twenty million dollars, and that's why we're

573
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 6: so intent on bringing that case to a close. And

574
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 6: that's the case where we sought we're now seeking punitive

575
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 6: damages based on the CNN town hall and why that's

576
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 6: relevant is punitive damages can only be assessed based on

577
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 6: a ratio of the compensatory damages, right, So if the

578
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 6: compensator damages are a million dollars, then constitutionally speaking, you

579
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 6: can only get five or six million dollars in punitive damages.

580
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 6: But if the compensatory damages, as they are in Carol two,

581
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 6: are somewhere on the range of ten to twenty million dollars,

582
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 6: then for punitive damages you're talking a lot of money.

583
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: So, but can you explain just the nuances here? The

584
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: second case is you went back to the first case.

585
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 2: You didn't file another case.

586
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 4: No, no, no, the first case. The first case is

587
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 4: still pending.

588
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 6: And the reason why it's behind because of very complicated

589
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 6: issues involving federal law and whether or not when Trump

590
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 6: said what he said in June twenty seventeen, he was

591
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 6: saying to serve himself, He was saying it to serve himself,

592
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 6: or he was saying in order to serve the interests

593
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 6: of the American people. Judge Kaplan, not surprisingly given the context,

594
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 6: concluded that he.

595
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 4: Was saying it for his own personal reasons.

596
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 6: We believe that discovery has now confirmed that the DC

597
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 6: Court of Appeals, which got the case after the Second

598
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 6: Circuit sent it there, concluded that that is the relevant

599
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 6: question whether when he said it, he was too little attenuated.

600
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 6: It's old fashioned language, too little attenuated to serve the

601
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 6: American people.

602
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 4: If that's true, then that case will go forward.

603
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 6: But all that's left to do in that case is

604
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 6: just damages because the fact that the statements, which are

605
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 6: almost the same or defamatory, that's now a settled issue.

606
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 4: As between Egen and Donald Trump.

607
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 2: This is so interesting, Egene. Do you feel vindicated?

608
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 4: Yes, I feel like I got my name back. I

609
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 4: feel like he dragged me through the mud.

610
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 5: He lied about me, he said terrible things about me,

611
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 5: and the jury said that he was lying and that

612
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 5: I was telling the truth. So yes, Molly, I do

613
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 5: feel vindicated. But not just for me. This is really

614
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 5: not just for me. This is for every woman who

615
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 5: has had to put up with a man grabbing at

616
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 5: her and then laughing and say he didn't.

617
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 4: Do it, you know, And that's millions of women. So

618
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 4: this was just not for me, but it was for what, uh,

619
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 4: you know, for every woman in the nation.

620
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 3: Thank you both so much.

621
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 4: Thank you It pleasure. Hi.

622
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 2: It's Mollie, and I am wildly excited that for the

623
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: first time fast politics the show you're listening to right.

624
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 4: Now is going to have merch for sale.

625
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: Over at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com.

626
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Speaker 4: You can now buy shirts, hats.

627
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Speaker 2: Hoodies, and toe bags with our incredible designs.

628
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Speaker 4: We've heard your.

629
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: Cries to spread the word about our podcast and get

630
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 2: a tow bag with my adorable Leo the Rescue Puppy

631
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 2: on it, and now you can grab this merchandise only

632
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 2: at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com.

633
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 4: Thanks for your support.

634
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: Jeff Stein is the White House economics reporter for the

635
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 2: Washington Post. Welcome back to Fast Politics time.

636
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 7: Thanks for having me.

637
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: Mollie.

638
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: I had to have you because you are one of

639
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: the only people who has read what is in the debt.

640
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 4: Ceiling deal, as we call it.

641
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: Here, So talk to me about what's actually in there.

642
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 7: What's actually in there is really anticlimactic. I feel like

643
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 7: I have to say, We've been doing these stories for

644
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 7: months and months about this epic, drag out battle between

645
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 7: McCarthy and Biden, and it was going to maybe transform

646
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 7: Americans society or destroy the economy or you know, cause

647
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 7: this global financial crisis, and what we got is this

648
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 7: like kind of amazing nothing burger. Really, in both directions,

649
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,719
Speaker 7: which maybe was more predictable in hindsight than we realized

650
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 7: at the time. The bill, I think the most important

651
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 7: thing from the Democrats perspective is it gets this headache

652
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 7: off the White House's plate for two years. They don't

653
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 7: have to think about the debt ceiling until after the

654
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 7: twenty four presidential election. The Republicans got some I think,

655
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 7: not really as many concessions as they were for certainly

656
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 7: and not as long as many people expected, but.

657
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 3: And not as many as they were bragging they were

658
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 3: going to have.

659
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, so freezing domestic spending, which is an inflation adjusted cut,

660
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 7: new work requirements on food stamps and federal welfare benefits, but.

661
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 3: There's an age cap on that.

662
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 7: Yes, the new work requirements will sunset for snap in

663
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 7: twenty thirty. Some permitting changes that Republicans had been seeking.

664
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 4: But that's a separate bill, right.

665
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 7: No, No, that will be in there. I mean, but

666
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 7: they were. They're really quite minimal, I mean, the kind

667
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 7: of changes that Republicans really want. The White House fought

668
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 7: to withdraw. And I'll just quickly say that I think

669
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 7: the biggest Republican win here is of the eighty billion

670
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 7: dollars that the White House approved last year for the

671
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 7: Internal Revenue Services expansion. The Republicans got twenty billions, so

672
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 7: really a quarter of that huge initiati from the Biden administration,

673
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 7: that twenty billion will be rescinded. And you know, Republicans

674
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 7: really do not like the idea of more aggressive tax enforcement.

675
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 7: And this money was going to be used for proving

676
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 7: taxpayer services call lines, and so this will continue to

677
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 7: make it harder for the IRS to rebuild. So that's

678
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 7: kind of the broad contours of the deal.

679
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 2: Right, They're psyched because their donors might be less likely

680
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: to get audited. Though actually the reporting has shown that

681
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 2: the IRS tends to actually sort of stick into people

682
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: who are poor.

683
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 7: Right, well for now, right, But like that, the whole

684
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 7: idea was like, let's change.

685
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: That, right, which is which actually would be good. But

686
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 2: I always think of you as as I read you

687
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 2: all the time, and you know, you obviously are a

688
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 2: straight reporter, but you tend to be a little more

689
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 2: on the progressive side.

690
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 3: Am I allowed to say that? Should I not say that?

691
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 7: I'm allowed to just be silent and response mabe.

692
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 4: Okay, great.

693
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: I had expected that this would be a negotiation where

694
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 2: the progressives might be slightly unhappy, but they would, you know,

695
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 2: they would realize that, like the fourteenth amendument. As much

696
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 2: as I would love to see the Fourteenth Amendment invoked,

697
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 2: it would come down to some very scary, eleventh hour stuff.

698
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 2: Relying on a very trumpy core or minting the enormously

699
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: valuable coin, which again you know you're in unprecedented territory,

700
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 2: might work, but could The stakes are very high to

701
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 2: start doing unprecedented stuff. But I actually think this is

702
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 2: not as much of a lose for progressives as a

703
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 2: lot of us were expecting.

704
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 7: I think a lot of this is expectations setting. I

705
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 7: think if you had said six months ago that the

706
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 7: White House would have to give up a quarter of

707
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 7: its IRS expansion as a price to get Republicans not

708
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 7: to blow up the economy and think what is right,

709
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 7: been a little disappointed in that. But I will say

710
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 7: I mean about a week and a half ago, I

711
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 7: was writing a story, a seventeen hundred word story that

712
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 7: I had written that was never published, which is just

713
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 7: the most painful thing for a journalist. The real victim here.

714
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 7: But the thing that they were looking at that I

715
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 7: was writing about the prospect of was from the math

716
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 7: I was doing, based on what I was hearing from

717
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 7: negotiations was an eight to twelve percent cut to the

718
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 7: part of the federal budget that's most important for anti

719
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 7: poverty initiatives. And in the context of that as the

720
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 7: barrel that we were looking down the end of the irs,

721
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 7: changes are like from the progressive perspective, you know, like

722
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 7: a little slap on the wrist. I think, if you're weighing,

723
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 7: on the one hand, trying to make sure that the

724
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 7: poorest people in this country have life saving services and

725
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 7: you protect that, you prevent that from getting hit, and

726
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 7: the price you have to pay is making it a

727
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 7: little easier for rich people to cheat on their taxes.

728
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 7: I think that's a trade that progresses make every day

729
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 7: and twice on Sunday.

730
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was my sense, And I think that the

731
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 2: MAGA crew had hoped they were going to be able

732
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: to blow up the federal government.

733
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 6: Well.

734
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 7: I also think like from their perspective, it makes sense

735
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 7: that you know, we've had this whole evolution from the

736
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 7: twenty tens and the Tea Party and this sort of

737
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 7: deep ideological ferment in the Republican Party about spending and

738
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 7: a lot of us myself included, you know, saw the

739
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 7: Trump era as kind of a retreat. Trump just said,

740
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 7: you know, I don't really care about any of this

741
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 7: Paul Ryan stuff. I will increase the debt by more

742
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 7: than any president of American history, by over seven trillion dollars.

743
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 7: And then Republicans came back in and said, we're going

744
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 7: to go back, like just let's do rip Van Winkle

745
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 7: and pretend like the last four years never happened and

746
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 7: reincarnate our tea party selves. And I think one possible

747
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 7: interpretation will have to see how that shakes up. But

748
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 7: one possible reading of what's happened here is that the

749
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 7: Trump effect on the party's ideological core actually was real,

750
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 7: and McCarthy wanted to get a own on Biden, and

751
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 7: maybe he did own him, you know, like Biden was like,

752
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 7: I'm not going to negotiate, and clearly Biden did. But

753
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 7: when it came to the substance of the agreement, the

754
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 7: Republicans don't seem like that actually agitated about the like

755
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 7: discretionary non defense numbers over ten years, which is to me,

756
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 7: potentially like the Trump influence on the party so interesting.

757
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 2: I mean, that is the weird thing about Trump right,

758
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 2: And again, nobody is saying anything good about Trump here.

759
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 2: The guy is trying to kill American democracy and working

760
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: hard to do it. But it is interesting to me.

761
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: You know, he does this populist rhetoric. So what he

762
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: has said, you know, I mean again, is it true?

763
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 2: You know, who knows, but he has been pretending to

764
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 2: be pro social safety net.

765
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 7: There's this interesting coalitional element here that Trump has has,

766
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 7: as you know, as a mechanism for sort of overtaking

767
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 7: the Republican Party kind of had to make peace with

768
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 7: some of its major players, including sort of the Paul

769
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 7: Ryan wing. And so in the Trump administration there were

770
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 7: all these people who were fanatically devoted to cutting this

771
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 7: part of the budget. And Trump, I think, despite all

772
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 7: the anti democratic impulses and actions that you're accurately alluding to,

773
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 7: Trump like kind of thought these guys were a little weird.

774
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 7: Like he Trump is like a star billionaire playboy, Like

775
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 7: he's not like devoted his life to lowering on specionary spending,

776
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 7: like he wants to know what's popular. And this like

777
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 7: almost like Greek tragedy element to some of these like

778
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 7: advisors around him who talk about Trump in these like

779
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 7: highly idealized terms, and they worship Trump and then they

780
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 7: spend like years trying to cut spending and Trump is like,

781
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 7: you guys are weird. Like I know you love me,

782
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 7: but like I don't. Actually, I'm like, they're like, we

783
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 7: give we must do this, and he's like, I'm going

784
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 7: to like go to the golf course and like hit

785
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 7: some long drives and like you guys can like scream

786
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 7: about how mcmarthy sacrificed the budget and it's like he

787
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 7: doesn't care.

788
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he did want to crash the economy.

789
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 2: I mean he said, don't make a deal. The impulse

790
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 2: of Trump is. I mean, I was surprised they weren't.

791
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: And again, you know, this deal has not passed yet,

792
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 2: and if it doesn't pass, we're all completely fucked.

793
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 3: I mean, let's be honest.

794
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 2: But I was surprised that there weren't more people on

795
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 2: the trumpy right who are like, let's just blow up

796
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 2: the economy so that Trump gets elected in twenty four.

797
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 7: I think it is really surprised. I had the same

798
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 7: reaction and it was not what I was anticipating. Like

799
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 7: I thought, right now Trump would be like constantly like

800
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 7: posting on his you know.

801
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 4: Website constantly truthing on his truth social.

802
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 7: It would be truthing about how McCarthy was like a

803
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 7: rhino and the deal was terrible and everything. And I

804
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 7: wonder if they have polling that it's like not good

805
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 7: to like destroy the economy, like me, yeah, someone who

806
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 7: said that.

807
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 2: It must be because there's that's the only way any

808
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 2: of this is happening. And the polling I saw a

809
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 2: show that Biden would get blamed for destroying the economy,

810
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 2: but it must be that both of them will get

811
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: blamed and that that's why they're doing it.

812
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 7: It is interesting because DeSantis is like out there saying

813
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 7: that this is a bad deal and like trying to

814
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 7: carve out a lane to the right of Trump on this.

815
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 7: But like, do conservative voters really, like, are they really

816
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 7: that worked up about like the baseline for like the

817
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 7: CBO report? You know, it's just like I don't know, No,

818
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 7: they don't.

819
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 3: Get shit about cutting spending.

820
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 2: I mean that's the thing that I mean, trump Ism

821
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: has brought to bears that they don't care about the deficit.

822
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 4: The deficit is bullshit.

823
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 2: If it's a way to darve poor kids to keep

824
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 2: them from having free breakfast, then they care about the deficit.

825
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 2: But if it's going to deprive billionaires of tax cuts,

826
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: then no way.

827
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, or or you know, ensure that that billionaires don't

828
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 7: face higher tax enforces. I yes, yes, talk about a

829
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 7: Jille Trump might like, you know, it's so sleazy.

830
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 3: So let me ask you.

831
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 2: Now, there's going to be a lot of complaining on

832
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: the right.

833
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 3: I mean, talk to me about Nancy Mace. She's very mad.

834
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, she's the South Carolina woman, right, yeah.

835
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 2: I mean the people who are the maddest about this

836
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: deal seem to be like the Chip Roy crew.

837
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 3: Though he's going to vote it through rules.

838
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: It sounds like the Tea Party crew, though some of

839
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: them are on board.

840
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 3: I mean that's the thing that's like baffling about this.

841
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 2: And again perhaps we were too cynical, but like Jim

842
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 2: Jordan supports it.

843
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 7: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think a

844
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 7: lot of people really did kind of underestimate Kevin McCarthy's

845
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 7: ability to get it Jill done. I was just talking

846
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 7: with someone about do you remember when Nancy Pelosi called.

847
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 1: Him a moron?

848
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, he is a moron.

849
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 7: And then he printed the shirt the T shirts he

850
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 7: sold t shirts on his website that said, like I'm

851
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:26,720
Speaker 7: a moron, We're owning this. I remember because Pelosi's staffed

852
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 7: tweeded back like this is the first like Republican truth

853
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 7: in advertising. But he like he seems to have like

854
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 7: tamped down a lot of the rabble rousers in his caucus.

855
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 7: And I think we should not discount the fact that

856
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 7: if the dead ceiling deal got did not get done right,

857
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 7: we would be looking at a ten to twenty percent

858
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 7: to climb the stock market. That happened even before the

859
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 7: debt ceiling was breached eleven And yeah, remember Republicans like

860
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 7: here all the time from business leaders. They thems tend

861
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 7: to be more affluent, and they're highly attuned to the

862
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 7: stock market. And CEOs did not want to see the

863
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 7: stock market drop by fifteen percent again, which I think

864
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 7: is understandable. And so when we look at that at

865
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 7: sort of the elements in play here, this is a

866
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 7: big countervailing force all in the anti spending Republicans that

867
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 7: that they if Jim Jordan can say to his you know,

868
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 7: the right wing activist, we got a good deal that

869
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 7: Bian didn't want to give us anything on, then he

870
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 7: can you know, sort of vote for the deal and

871
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 7: not have to, you know, have to handle large business

872
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 7: interests yelling at him.

873
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 2: Well, the thing I was struck by was that it

874
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: seems like McCarthy and we were all criticizing him, but

875
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 2: it seems as if McCarthy has brought the right flank

876
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: in and it had somehow been able to control them

877
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 2: by making giving them a seat at the table.

878
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 7: I think that's right. I mean the fact that even

879
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 7: the House Freeme Calucus members that we've spoken to in

880
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 7: the last few days, they're not even like even the

881
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 7: most right wing of them who are going to vote

882
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 7: against this. And to be clear, we've known for months

883
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 7: that he would lose thirty to thirty five votes right

884
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 7: off the bat just by raising the debt ceiling. But

885
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 7: there's a lot of voices and even they are not

886
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 7: discussing deposing McCarthy, which is the threat that everyone thought

887
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 7: that they were going to make. So they've really put

888
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 7: down their weapons here. And the sort of the crucial

889
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 7: question has always been not the thirty most right wing members,

890
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 7: but like sort of the next sixty, like where do

891
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,720
Speaker 7: they go? And by all indications, they are actually quite

892
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 7: comfortable with the deal. And I think it goes back

893
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 7: to what we were just discussing, that, like, their voters

894
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 7: are not that upset, and if they have to deal

895
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 7: with business groups in their districts yelling at them to

896
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 7: get this done, it's not ultimately that hard to vote,

897
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 7: especially if Trump isn't like running on the sidelines, you know,

898
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 7: jumping up and down.

899
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 3: Trying to get them primary.

900
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

901
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 2: But the other thing that's interesting is like Trump doesn't

902
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 2: have and I think we've seen this. Trump does not

903
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 2: have the power he used to have, even with the primary.

904
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: Maybe in the Ruby Rads. If Trump tweeted about you

905
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: like your life was a misery, you know, you would

906
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: be like constant death threats for a month.

907
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 3: His base is not the same amount of mad that

908
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 3: they used to be.

909
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:14,879
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's interesting.

910
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 3: I mean it's a low bar, but.

911
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 7: I mean I don't know. The poll still suggests to

912
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 7: me that he I know this is boring sort of

913
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 7: pundit talk, but he's she's doing quite well.

914
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 3: I think they can't beat him.

915
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 7: But no, I think you're right that the air has

916
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 7: gone out of the balloon.

917
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

918
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 2: I think when people go to jail because of stuff

919
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 2: you've told them to do, they are slightly more hesitant

920
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: to do stuff you told them to do.

921
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, and maybe you know Congress has the same reaction

922
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 7: with blowing up the world economy.

923
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 4: Right, I mean, so tell me what the timetable is now.

924
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 7: I think they're going to pass this thing on Wednesday,

925
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 7: maybe Thursday, and then.

926
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 3: It goes to the Senate.

927
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 7: When I think Wednesday evening. I mean, these guys love

928
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 7: nothing more than getting out of town as soon as possible,

929
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 7: and frankly I fully support that.

930
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 3: I mean, they were out this weekend.

931
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 2: It's not like anybody stayed back in DC over the weekend.

932
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 7: I guess Noally, they might have to do two consecutive

933
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 7: days of work in June.

934
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 2: They get so mad when you say that, even like

935
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 2: the one you know, They're like, no, we do our

936
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:24,919
Speaker 2: district work.

937
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:29,240
Speaker 7: I'm like, Okay, I simultaneously think that they are quite lazy,

938
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 7: but I also think that I would hate it. Seems

939
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 7: really miserable, like it would. Yeah, you're like one of

940
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 7: the gazillion people who has like effectively no power. Almost

941
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 7: certainly you like have to like lie to everyone all

942
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 7: the time about what you actually think.

943
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 4: It's just like such a bad job.

944
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, it just seems awful, like you can't like work

945
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 7: from home whenever you feel like it unless you're you know,

946
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 7: I guess you can, Diane.

947
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 3: It's time I got to get in trouble.

948
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 2: The people I've talked to have said that if it

949
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 2: makes it to the House, it will make it through

950
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 2: the Center.

951
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially with Mitch on board. Yeah.

952
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,439
Speaker 7: Yeah, As I was saying, it just sort of feels

953
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 7: like a very anticlimactic end to all this drama. But

954
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 7: you know, I think that's good. The story I'm working

955
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 7: on now is that Biden has sort of teased the

956
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 7: idea that he will after this is over, invoked the

957
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 7: fourteenth Amendment. This is kind of what you were referring

958
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 7: to earlier. The White House had this fear that if

959
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 7: they went the unilateral route during a crisis, then the

960
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 7: debt issuance in violation of the debt ceiling would have

961
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 7: been legally contested and still could have sparked a financial crisis.

962
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 4: Certainly true.

963
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, Yeah, So what Biden is suggesting is maybe they will.

964
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 7: What he said on Sunday, even though the remarks were

965
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 7: kind of confusing, he sort of suggested that they can

966
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 7: make that They're going to explore doing that even sort

967
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 7: of absent to crisis, that maybe they can try to

968
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,439
Speaker 7: go forward with that when we're not on the brain.

969
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 7: The problem with that approach is that courts might not

970
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 7: take it up. There's no reason for a judicial the

971
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 7: judicial branch to rule on something that's not a live issue.

972
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 4: Theoretical. Yeah.

973
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, and so I will say, and I hope someone

974
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 7: in timestamps system throws this back at me if I

975
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 7: am still like spending my life covering this when he

976
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 7: comes up again in two years, which you will, I

977
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 7: will need to rethink some major.

978
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 4: Congratulations.

979
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,439
Speaker 3: That's it, we're out of time.

980
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 4: Thank you.

981
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 7: That's perfect, all right, Thank you, guys.

982
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 5: No mo.

983
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 4: Jesse Cannon, Molly Jong Fast. Seems that Elon's up to

984
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 4: no good because he thinks it's funny to own the libs.

985
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: Really interesting, and by interesting, I mean quite stupid. Elon

986
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 2: Musk took away blue check verification on Twitter. That opened

987
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 2: the door to a lot of impersonation, including parody accounts.

988
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: There is an AOC parody accoun that said it would

989
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 2: like to date Elon. Elon then responded with the fire emoji.

990
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 2: I would like to never have to talk about Twitter again.

991
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 2: Our moment of fuckery comes from our terrifying CEO of Twitter,

992
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 2: Elon Musk, engaging with parody accounts and making it impossible

993
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 2: to tell who is real and who is fake. That's

994
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 2: it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

995
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 2: and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes

996
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 2: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,

997
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 2: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

998
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 2: And again, thanks for listening.