1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,040
Speaker 1: All right, you are back with the Mark Moss Show,

2
00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,720
Speaker 1: where each week I bring to you the latest information

3
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,680
Speaker 1: on bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, and the decentralized revolution. As I've been

4
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: talking about, it's probably the biggest opportunity that you'll ever

5
00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,720
Speaker 1: see in your lifetime. It's literally changing the way humanity works.

6
00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,079
Speaker 1: It is that big. Now I am joined with my

7
00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,159
Speaker 1: good friend Alex Gladstein with the Human Rights Foundation and

8
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,320
Speaker 1: the reason why I wanted to have him in today

9
00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,400
Speaker 1: because to establish the foundation of what I think really

10
00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,760
Speaker 1: the importance of bitcoin is. And I know that a

11
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,000
Speaker 1: lot of people are chasing cryptocurrencies and bitcoin to try

12
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,240
Speaker 1: to get rich, and they're trying to increase their U

13
00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,560
Speaker 1: S dollars supply the value of those U S dollars

14
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,200
Speaker 1: or whatever they're trying to do there. And of course

15
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,159
Speaker 1: we all want to make money, and that's great, we

16
00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,839
Speaker 1: want that opportunity, but really it's so much more. Bitcoin

17
00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,159
Speaker 1: is fixing the world. We say, fixed the money, fix

18
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,360
Speaker 1: the world, and Alex is really at the forefront of that.

19
00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 1: And so Alex, thanks so much for taking the time

20
00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 1: to sit down with me today. Um, good to have you.

21
00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,240
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on Mark. Yeah, so, um, you

22
00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,040
Speaker 1: wrote a paper recently, um, talking about how you know,

23
00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,560
Speaker 1: the Bitcoin and the cryptocurrency revolution, And there was a

24
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,000
Speaker 1: piece in there specifically that I looked at, and um,

25
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,959
Speaker 1: you quoted a piece from Greg Barker that he had written, Um,

26
00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,800
Speaker 1: And it was a criticism of bitcoin, saying, rather than

27
00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:24,480
Speaker 1: producing a more open, more liberating, more financially free society,

28
00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,399
Speaker 1: the crypto movement has empowered not just another cabal of

29
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:32,399
Speaker 1: crypt financiers, but a hidden cartel of criminals Wall Street rejects,

30
00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:37,640
Speaker 1: and what Senator Senator Elizabeth Warren has described as shadowy supercoders.

31
00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,679
Speaker 1: And so I guess that's the criticism about bitcoin. And

32
00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,160
Speaker 1: I think maybe that quote there kind of summarizes what

33
00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:50,520
Speaker 1: your response was in that paper. UM, So give us

34
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,520
Speaker 1: your response to that. I mean, that's a kind of

35
00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,880
Speaker 1: a damning criticism bitcoin, right. Look, I used Greg's piece

36
00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,800
Speaker 1: and I quoted from it in my writing because I

37
00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:01,920
Speaker 1: thought out it was a good summary of existing criticism

38
00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 1: of of bitcoin and and the end of cryptocurrencies or

39
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:10,480
Speaker 1: let's let's call it crypto as as the cool kids say. UM.

40
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,360
Speaker 1: And my point is that his criticism is accurate of

41
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:19,320
Speaker 1: crypto or of cryptocurrencies It's true. They all are insider

42
00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,240
Speaker 1: projects where people decided to make money, you know, with

43
00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,000
Speaker 1: the click of a button, and they got their friends rich,

44
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,960
Speaker 1: and they still control everything, and the state has influence

45
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,079
Speaker 1: and can shut people down. And it's really just like,

46
00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,880
Speaker 1: you know, an unregulated extension of Wall Street or Las

47
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:44,280
Speaker 1: Vegas um and it's it's not revolutionary in my view.

48
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,040
Speaker 1: What's revolutionaries bitcoin? And I think that's what I want

49
00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:49,920
Speaker 1: to get across in this interview to folks is from

50
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,560
Speaker 1: a human rights perspective, not not from a financial perspective

51
00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,320
Speaker 1: where obviously you made a lot more money in dogecoin

52
00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,160
Speaker 1: in the last twelve months than a bitcoin um, but

53
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,880
Speaker 1: over time, and the fact that bitcoin is changing the world,

54
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,639
Speaker 1: whereas crypto is like an extension of the existing system.

55
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:12,480
Speaker 1: And the difference is that in bitcoin it is powered

56
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,200
Speaker 1: by users and there is no central point of failure,

57
00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,440
Speaker 1: and there was no one who can control the monetary policy,

58
00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,880
Speaker 1: who can decide to print more bitcoin, who can arbitrarily

59
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 1: change the bitcoin software without your consent, or who can

60
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,639
Speaker 1: even process transactions without your consent. Um. In bitcoin, if

61
00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,160
Speaker 1: you run a personal server and you're you're running a

62
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,640
Speaker 1: note and you're part of the network as as a

63
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,000
Speaker 1: full bitcoin citizen, let's say, as many many thousands of

64
00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 1: people across the world are you decide what transactions are valid. Uh,

65
00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,280
Speaker 1: you know, you have control over the miners, and you

66
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,600
Speaker 1: decide what software updates to accept, so you have control

67
00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,440
Speaker 1: over the developers. And in this way, bitcoin is truly

68
00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 1: like money of the people. And I view, like the

69
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 1: other cryptocurrency projects regard this of their utility as more

70
00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,560
Speaker 1: like fintech or you know, perhaps more unregulated stocks or

71
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 1: tech startups, like they may deliver enormous value, but that

72
00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,520
Speaker 1: they don't kind of reshape the paradigm. And I think

73
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,640
Speaker 1: that's that's quite important for people to understand because because

74
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,600
Speaker 1: bitcoin is unregulatable and decentralized, it can help people in

75
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,240
Speaker 1: the toughest of environments. It can help people inside China

76
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:30,159
Speaker 1: and inside dictatorships, whereas crypto can get censored and blacklisted

77
00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 1: and pressured. And in the end, at the in the end,

78
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,400
Speaker 1: over the coming century, as we battle like digital authoritarianism

79
00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,479
Speaker 1: and as we battle big brother um, bitcoin is a

80
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:46,000
Speaker 1: tool to fight back where I just don't think crypto is. Yeah, yeah,

81
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 1: that's a good point. You're they're listening to the Mark

82
00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,760
Speaker 1: Maas show on the Heart Radio Network. I'm with Alex

83
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,080
Speaker 1: Gladstein from the Human Rights Foundation. You can find them

84
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,040
Speaker 1: on Twitter at at Gladstein, so send him a tweet

85
00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,640
Speaker 1: follow them. But we're talking about using it as a

86
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,960
Speaker 1: as a human rights tool. I know, you know, pretty

87
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,000
Speaker 1: much everyone listening probably right now, is in the United States,

88
00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,560
Speaker 1: and they don't feel that right, they don't feel that

89
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,400
Speaker 1: authorityis um you just mentioned China, right, and so oh,

90
00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,880
Speaker 1: it's it's over there in China, um, or it's it's

91
00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,360
Speaker 1: happening in in the Lebanon or whatever. But maybe it's

92
00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,200
Speaker 1: not in the United States. But but one, if it's happening,

93
00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,600
Speaker 1: then there could potentially come here. But two, we saw

94
00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,080
Speaker 1: and you probably know better than me, a month or

95
00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,960
Speaker 1: a month ago, two months ago. We're even PayPal teamed

96
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,440
Speaker 1: up with UM the Anti Defamation League to like make

97
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,440
Speaker 1: a list of people that should be blacklisted from being

98
00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,320
Speaker 1: able to send payments to each other, right, literally censoring

99
00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,560
Speaker 1: the ability to send money to who I want, and

100
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,839
Speaker 1: then and then and then sharing that list with even

101
00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:45,040
Speaker 1: more financial institutions. Yeah, so let's take a philosophical view

102
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,320
Speaker 1: and then a global view. So philosophically, when we talk

103
00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,440
Speaker 1: about money, what is money? Um, we're in an in

104
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,840
Speaker 1: a transition where the money that you use on a

105
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,359
Speaker 1: daily basis is going from a bearer asset that protects

106
00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,400
Speaker 1: your privacy to want of surveillance and control. So like

107
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,320
Speaker 1: the money that you used maybe ten twenty years ago,

108
00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,720
Speaker 1: it was paper money cash. When you make a cash transaction,

109
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,080
Speaker 1: the merchant doesn't know anything about you. They just know

110
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,400
Speaker 1: that you've paid. When you pay with your credit card

111
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,600
Speaker 1: or your swipe or your phone or your mobile money

112
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, the merchant and an enormous number

113
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 1: of third parties, and ultimately the government knows a ton

114
00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,320
Speaker 1: about you. They know exactly what you bought, They know

115
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,160
Speaker 1: what you bought last time. They can build algorithms to

116
00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 1: figure out what you're gonna buy next. And this can

117
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,000
Speaker 1: be used for censorship and surveillance and social engineering, and

118
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,120
Speaker 1: it is it is being used for that, not just

119
00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,160
Speaker 1: in China but all over the world, including right here

120
00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,799
Speaker 1: in the United States. I mean when you go into markets,

121
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,720
Speaker 1: I mean they're like bluetooth like surveillance mechanisms that pick

122
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 1: up on your shopping habits, and you know, they can

123
00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,360
Speaker 1: read this off your phone and your transaction history, and

124
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:48,880
Speaker 1: this is a direction we're heading in and we need

125
00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,560
Speaker 1: a different way, um to preserve our digital freedoms in

126
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 1: the future because the government is not going to give

127
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,960
Speaker 1: them to us. Um if you think that the government

128
00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,200
Speaker 1: is going to phase out paper cash, which Hill Dren

129
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,440
Speaker 1: today won't use regardless, like we know that children today

130
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,000
Speaker 1: when they're twenty years old, won't use paper money. Everything's

131
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,279
Speaker 1: gonna be digital. So the question is how are we

132
00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,560
Speaker 1: going to keep the freedoms and privacy that cash afforded

133
00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,040
Speaker 1: us in the digital space. There's two camps. One says

134
00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,640
Speaker 1: the government's going to give it to us. Okay, I mean,

135
00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,960
Speaker 1: did you see the Snowden revelations, Like I don't know,

136
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,480
Speaker 1: like what planet you're living on, but there's a lot

137
00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,760
Speaker 1: of people who believe that, like we can like petition

138
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,360
Speaker 1: in the US government and we can get them to

139
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,880
Speaker 1: give us digital cash and we'll give you free I'm

140
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,880
Speaker 1: just jaded on that one as a human rights activists,

141
00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,720
Speaker 1: like I just don't think that's gonna happen. And maybe

142
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,080
Speaker 1: maybe in the tiniest of scenarios in the U s

143
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,920
Speaker 1: Or Switzerland or Japan, but definitely not in China or

144
00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,640
Speaker 1: saut of your a BI or Cuba, like you know,

145
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,000
Speaker 1: a four point three billion people live under dictatorships in

146
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,440
Speaker 1: the throwd chain regimes. They're never gonna get you know,

147
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,840
Speaker 1: fiat government money that protects freedoms in the future. And

148
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:48,840
Speaker 1: this is why bitcoin is so important. Is it gives

149
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,840
Speaker 1: us this like Plan B that anybody can access without

150
00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,560
Speaker 1: any particular nationality or wealth level, or gender or belief system.

151
00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:01,360
Speaker 1: Like anyone can access this open, nondiscriminatory network and both

152
00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,480
Speaker 1: use it as digital cash and make payments seamlessly instantly

153
00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,600
Speaker 1: around the world to the Lightning network, which is remarkable,

154
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,480
Speaker 1: but also invest their time and energy and digital gold

155
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,040
Speaker 1: in a in an asset that cannot be debased by

156
00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,720
Speaker 1: government and and bitcoin is the only digital asset that

157
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,560
Speaker 1: cannot be arbitrarely debased. Every single other cryptocurrency and every

158
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,960
Speaker 1: single other central bank digital currency or just a general

159
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,000
Speaker 1: digital currency like your deposit at the bank can be confiscated,

160
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,640
Speaker 1: can be debased by monetary policy. And that what that's

161
00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,120
Speaker 1: what makes bitcoin so special. Yeah, and you mentioned, um,

162
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,240
Speaker 1: you know how cash we have. Cash gives us that

163
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,640
Speaker 1: that that privacy that not a minute amity there um.

164
00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,360
Speaker 1: And in nineteen seventy when they put the Bank Secrecy

165
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,400
Speaker 1: Act in they said all transactions under over ten thousand

166
00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 1: dollars had to be reported. But at the time ten

167
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,560
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in nineteen seventy is worth about seventy thousand

168
00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,719
Speaker 1: dollars today, but they've kept that number ten thousand. But

169
00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,120
Speaker 1: now today they are saying now for this new infrastructure bill,

170
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,400
Speaker 1: they want to monitor every single bank account with more

171
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:08,359
Speaker 1: than six dollars, every single transaction, including including Venmo, Crypto, PayPal, etcetera.

172
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,120
Speaker 1: I want to talk more about human rights stuff around

173
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,720
Speaker 1: the world and even real world use cases of how

174
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,080
Speaker 1: um that's being fixed when we get back in a second.

175
00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,280
Speaker 1: But everyone, you're listening to the Mark Moss Show with

176
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,959
Speaker 1: Alex Gladstein talking about bitcoin and human rights and we'll

177
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,920
Speaker 1: be right back. All right, you are back with the

178
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,439
Speaker 1: Mark Moss Show talking about bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, the decentralized revolutions,

179
00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,920
Speaker 1: and I'm with Alex Gladstein from the Human Rights Foundation.

180
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,680
Speaker 1: You can find them on Twitter at Gladstein is definitely

181
00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,480
Speaker 1: worth a follow, so go check them out there. And

182
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,160
Speaker 1: we were in the middle of talking about how bitcoin

183
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,760
Speaker 1: has a real world use case, how it's solving human

184
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,520
Speaker 1: rights issues. We talked about, you know, having the freedom

185
00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,480
Speaker 1: and the privacy of using digital cash. UM. But Alex

186
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,640
Speaker 1: I really wanted to jump into maybe some um, maybe

187
00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,800
Speaker 1: more practical applications. I know you've published many times on

188
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,880
Speaker 1: Twitter UM where people say that bitcoin has no use.

189
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,040
Speaker 1: Case these people that say this, I feel like, how

190
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,040
Speaker 1: much privilege you have been in the United States. You

191
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,480
Speaker 1: must have never traveled anywhere else in the world. UM,

192
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,840
Speaker 1: But maybe you could give us some practical applications of

193
00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,120
Speaker 1: things that are going on in the world where it's

194
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,400
Speaker 1: really making a big impact. Yeah. I wrote a piece

195
00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 1: called check your Financial Privilege for the Coin magazine about

196
00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 1: six months ago, and you know that's something up in

197
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,520
Speaker 1: a nutshell like Bitcoin critics today who say that it's

198
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,120
Speaker 1: useless are hugely financial privileged. They were born into a

199
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 1: system where the unit of account is the dollar, where

200
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,480
Speaker 1: they don't have to deal with significant inflation at least

201
00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,000
Speaker 1: yet UM, where they can easily use stuff like Vemo

202
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,920
Speaker 1: and PayPal to connect with their family and friends. It's

203
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,600
Speaker 1: easy for them to travel abroad, like their money basically works.

204
00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,400
Speaker 1: They can invest long term very easily in a four

205
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,280
Speaker 1: oh one K or maybe even into real estate. UM.

206
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 1: Easy for them to get stocks, etcetera, etcetera, even bonds. Um,

207
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,080
Speaker 1: they can build like a diversified portfolio for their future.

208
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,520
Speaker 1: The vast majority of humans on this planet cannot do that. UM.

209
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,320
Speaker 1: One point three bill million people on our planet live

210
00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,600
Speaker 1: under double or triple or quadruple digit inflation. So that

211
00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,040
Speaker 1: means the money that they earn every week, every two weeks,

212
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,160
Speaker 1: every month, UM, is literally disappearing before their eyes. Uh.

213
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,160
Speaker 1: Most of these people do not have access to the

214
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,120
Speaker 1: SMP five hundred. They do not enough capital to buy

215
00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,240
Speaker 1: a home like so real quick, real real quick. On that,

216
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,760
Speaker 1: I mean, give us some example. So like Lebanon, I

217
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,920
Speaker 1: think saw like almost eighty or nine percent inflation in

218
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,240
Speaker 1: the last year, So that means like literally like they

219
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,920
Speaker 1: lost the majority of the purchasing power like that quickly. Yeah.

220
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,800
Speaker 1: So I'll give you a couple of examples from each

221
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,160
Speaker 1: part of the world of that one point three billion

222
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,400
Speaker 1: people who live under severe extreme inflation. And by the way,

223
00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,040
Speaker 1: that number is more than the number of people who

224
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 1: don't have access to a toilet or clean water. Like

225
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,200
Speaker 1: this is one of the biggest humanitarian issues in the world. UM.

226
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,920
Speaker 1: You mentioned Lebanon. Yeah, Lebanon and Syria, both home to

227
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,800
Speaker 1: millions of people, are seeing a historic currency collapse. Lebanon

228
00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:56,800
Speaker 1: in particular, now I believe has the highest rate of

229
00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:02,000
Speaker 1: inflation in the world, surpassing Venezuela, which had its own

230
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,640
Speaker 1: absolutely catastrophic hyper inflation over the last decade, where you know,

231
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,760
Speaker 1: a cup of coffee in Caracas, you know, would cost

232
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,400
Speaker 1: you know, a few hundred bolivars, and then the next

233
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,200
Speaker 1: year would cost a few thousand, and the next year

234
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,480
Speaker 1: would cost a few million. Like that actually happened. Um,

235
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,120
Speaker 1: you have fifty percent inflation in Argentina, you have uh,

236
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:24,720
Speaker 1: it's a country people. You have um fifteen percent inflation

237
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,079
Speaker 1: in Nigeria and higher food higher food inflation country of

238
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,880
Speaker 1: two hundred million people. You have fifteen percent inflation. In Turkey,

239
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,640
Speaker 1: the country another country close to a hundred million people.

240
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,080
Speaker 1: You have a country of a hundred twenty million people

241
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:41,199
Speaker 1: in Ethiopia where you have inflation. So these are vast,

242
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,240
Speaker 1: very large, very important countries where I want to I

243
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,920
Speaker 1: wanted this. I want to sorry. Because in the United States,

244
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,280
Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve printed about twenty of the dollars supply

245
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,720
Speaker 1: in the last year and of course, we saw prices

246
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,360
Speaker 1: go up by about so in the US, the median

247
00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,160
Speaker 1: home price went up by two percent. Use cars are

248
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,160
Speaker 1: up thirty percent. Uh, gasoline is up forty seven per

249
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,480
Speaker 1: cent um. And so it's not just those far away countries,

250
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,400
Speaker 1: it's in the United States as well. So go ahead, sorry, yeah, so,

251
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,880
Speaker 1: but thinking about it this way, yes, you're correct, there

252
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,959
Speaker 1: is currency debasement and inflation the United States. It's not

253
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,280
Speaker 1: usually quite as noticeable for a variety of reasons that

254
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 1: I won't get into here. But what you just need

255
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,400
Speaker 1: to know is that the dollar is like the foundation

256
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,400
Speaker 1: for the world's currencies, and any anything, any bad effects

257
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,920
Speaker 1: you see in the dollar get amplified elsewhere. So you know,

258
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,440
Speaker 1: price inflation United States, if we're seeing it, oh my god,

259
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,439
Speaker 1: that means things are like catastrophic for people in the

260
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,200
Speaker 1: countries I just mentioned, right, so all around the world.

261
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,760
Speaker 1: Burma in Southeast Asia just saw a massive loss of

262
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,760
Speaker 1: purchasing power in in the citizens over the last few months. Um,

263
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,960
Speaker 1: they lost sixty their purchasing power. Cuba, an island country

264
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,720
Speaker 1: just off the coast of Florida, very close to us,

265
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,440
Speaker 1: very close to maybe a lot of the hearts of

266
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,400
Speaker 1: our listeners. Um, the Cuban people have lost two thirds

267
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,960
Speaker 1: of their purchasing power in the last year as the

268
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,679
Speaker 1: government has basically failed to to run properly and is

269
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,480
Speaker 1: running a scheme where they're paying the pensioners. That a

270
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,240
Speaker 1: communist nation, right, so most public most workers are public

271
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,240
Speaker 1: sector workers and pensioners they're paying out pay soose which

272
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,280
Speaker 1: are collapsing. And then they have all these stores where

273
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,400
Speaker 1: you can buy what you need, and they're forcing you

274
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,840
Speaker 1: to use hard foreign currency to buy stuff in those stores.

275
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 1: So it's like they're turning this crap money into better

276
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 1: money at the expense of the people. And this is

277
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,520
Speaker 1: a game that a lot of governments play around the world, right, So,

278
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,600
Speaker 1: whether it's in Cuba, whether it's in Palestine, whether it's

279
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,040
Speaker 1: in Nigeria, Ethiopia. Yes, I've been like studying and interviewing

280
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,440
Speaker 1: people in these countries and just trying to learn about

281
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,040
Speaker 1: like how the government exploits money, how it uses it

282
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,080
Speaker 1: as a weapon against the people, and how people are

283
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,280
Speaker 1: turning to bitcoin to fight back. Yeah. So, um, you

284
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,840
Speaker 1: know the government in that scheme, I mean, that's crazy.

285
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,520
Speaker 1: So they're literally paying them in a currency that's losing value.

286
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,920
Speaker 1: But making them pay them back in a currency that's

287
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,120
Speaker 1: that's stronger UM and UH. And it's all over the world.

288
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,080
Speaker 1: In in the previ A segment when I had Alex

289
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,680
Speaker 1: Fetzki and Jessica and we were talking about UM the

290
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,120
Speaker 1: China band bitcoin again again and I think the ninth

291
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,280
Speaker 1: time or whatever, and UM they said it um it

292
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:17,200
Speaker 1: uh put at risk the financial and social system and

293
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,840
Speaker 1: so kind of what they're saying is that um, they

294
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,280
Speaker 1: need to manipulate their currency UM. But by allowing people

295
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,920
Speaker 1: and exit UM, that disrupts the system. So it's all

296
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,440
Speaker 1: over the place. That's a big problem. Yeah. I mean,

297
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,200
Speaker 1: there's millions of bitcoin users in China, There's more than

298
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,200
Speaker 1: ten million in India. There's millions in Turkey, there's millions

299
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,960
Speaker 1: in Nigeria, there's millions in Argentina. I mean, anyone on

300
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,040
Speaker 1: Wall Street or in the New York Times who says

301
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,280
Speaker 1: that it's some sort of costplay or some sort of

302
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,520
Speaker 1: you know, online libertarian nonsense is just ignorant. I mean,

303
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,720
Speaker 1: and I partly I almost feel bad for them and

304
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,360
Speaker 1: how wrong they are. Like the literally the most prestigious

305
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 1: newspapers and talk show hosts in our country are completely

306
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,720
Speaker 1: clueless about one of the most important revolution revolutions in history.

307
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:01,800
Speaker 1: I mean, we're separating money from state. I mean, this

308
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,400
Speaker 1: is on par with the printing press and democracy in

309
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,600
Speaker 1: ancient Greece. I mean, we're living through a similarly important

310
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 1: time right now, and they're just completely out to lunch.

311
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,400
Speaker 1: And the cool part is, Um, regardless of what they say,

312
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,280
Speaker 1: these professional bitcoin critics, regardless of how they've tried to

313
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,000
Speaker 1: gaslight you, the American people over the last ten years,

314
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 1: saying Bitcoin is too dangerous, it's too risky, Um, regardless

315
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,560
Speaker 1: of what they say, Bitcoin is right now as we speak,

316
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,760
Speaker 1: empowering tens of millions of people around the world who

317
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,720
Speaker 1: don't have a better money and it's doing more for

318
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,240
Speaker 1: people for empowerment and for justice and for freedom than

319
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,360
Speaker 1: any of those critics will ever do in their entire lifetime.

320
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,120
Speaker 1: It's doing in the next sixty minutes. So I mean

321
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 1: Bitcoin is saying basically screw you all, um. And the

322
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,280
Speaker 1: crazy part is that this is a gas lighting operation.

323
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 1: Like over the last decade, Americans and Brits and Chileans

324
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,480
Speaker 1: and Chinese, we've been told by our governments that bitcoin

325
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,040
Speaker 1: is First of all, they said it was a joke.

326
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 1: Then they said it was risky now, and then they

327
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 1: said it was dangerous. Okay, guess what's been dangerous not

328
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,640
Speaker 1: buying bitcoin? Okay, what I mean Now, let's just look

329
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,040
Speaker 1: at the dollar. Okay, the dollar has had a hyper

330
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 1: inflationary collapse against bitcoin over the last ten years. Okay,

331
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,560
Speaker 1: So they've forced you to stay away from that. They've

332
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,640
Speaker 1: convinced you that it's a bad idea, and you've ended

333
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 1: up losing purchasing power, you know, unless unless you've been

334
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 1: lucky enough to really like do well with you know,

335
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 1: equities and real estate. But like most people don't write.

336
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,480
Speaker 1: Most people just are just getting by and the money

337
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,119
Speaker 1: they're using to just get by has been depreciating and

338
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 1: purchasing power and they have more debt than ever. So

339
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 1: I mean, they think it just depends on your perspective.

340
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,159
Speaker 1: But what's been crazy to me is to watch like

341
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,919
Speaker 1: the academic political media elite continue to say this thing

342
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,680
Speaker 1: is dangerous when it is saving so many people around

343
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,200
Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, I love what you said. They're they're

344
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,640
Speaker 1: gas lighting or really there these professional critics, as you say,

345
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,800
Speaker 1: they're telling you stuff that's holding you back, which is

346
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:58,880
Speaker 1: why I want to bring this information to you. You're

347
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,400
Speaker 1: listening to the Mark mo Show from with Alex Claudstein

348
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,440
Speaker 1: and will be right back. All right, Welcome back here

349
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,560
Speaker 1: with the Mark mos Show on the Heart Radio Network.

350
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,120
Speaker 1: Each week I'm bringing you the information you need to

351
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 1: navigate the Bitcoin, cryptocurrency decentralized revolution. And make no mistake,

352
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,120
Speaker 1: it is a revolution that will fix the world, fix

353
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 1: the money, fix the world. I'm with Alex Gladstein from

354
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,600
Speaker 1: the Human Rights Foundation. UM. He is a big proponent

355
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,200
Speaker 1: of bitcoin around the world. You can follow him on

356
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,480
Speaker 1: Twitter at Gladstein and you definitely should give him a follow.

357
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,639
Speaker 1: But we were right in the middle of this uh

358
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,200
Speaker 1: of of one of his rans had to cut him off,

359
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,199
Speaker 1: and you want you jump back in, Yeah, no, I

360
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,320
Speaker 1: just look again, like professional economists and policymakers in the

361
00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 1: United States are bending over backwards to convince themselves that

362
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 1: currency debasement and basically printing more money to solve our

363
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,320
Speaker 1: nations problems is going to be good. Um. And and

364
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 1: at the same time they're attacking bitcoin, which is like

365
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,160
Speaker 1: the plan being that citizens can used to defend themselves. Right.

366
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,719
Speaker 1: So what you gotta know is that these people are

367
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,040
Speaker 1: self interested in the listing system. You should protect yourself

368
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,439
Speaker 1: with bitcoin. You should first learn about it, arm yourself

369
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,880
Speaker 1: with education and knowledge and learn about bitcoin. And then

370
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 1: over time, yeah, obviously try to start earning it, you know,

371
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,880
Speaker 1: converting some of your fiat money into it, etcetera, etcetera.

372
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,640
Speaker 1: That fiat money is going to lose value over time,

373
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,520
Speaker 1: is going to lose a tremendous amount of value over

374
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,440
Speaker 1: the next decade. If you're listening from Ethiopia or Studan,

375
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,399
Speaker 1: it's gonna lose money a lot faster and value a

376
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,120
Speaker 1: lot faster. But still, I mean even the United States

377
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 1: or EU, that money is going to lose a lot

378
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 1: of value. Um, people are gonna seek to move elsewhere.

379
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing is we have this big debate

380
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,880
Speaker 1: now about minting the coin. Like the United States has

381
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 1: a budget issue, We're gonna run out of money. And

382
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,119
Speaker 1: some people say, oh that, you know, the Treasury should

383
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 1: just meant a trillion dollar uh, you know, platinum coin

384
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 1: and sell it to the Fed, right as like a

385
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 1: way to fix it. Well, what's cooler? What's cooler than

386
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: a trillion dollar platinum coin? Trillion dollar freedom money? Which

387
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: is which is you know bitcoin is is you know

388
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 1: around nine hundred billion dollars and or you know, had

389
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,120
Speaker 1: had previously topped trillion dollars earlier this year, and we'll

390
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 1: top it again soon. So this freedom money, this trillion

391
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 1: dollar freedom money, is open to everybody on earth. You know.

392
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 1: If here's the interesting part. If if the US government

393
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 1: tries to save corporations and the and the financial sector

394
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 1: and the stocks to all of our senators and congressman

395
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,440
Speaker 1: owned by minting the coin, okay, um, that doesn't help

396
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,400
Speaker 1: everybody on earth, right, that only helps some people. Bitcoin

397
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 1: is like this level open playing field, that's that's literally

398
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 1: open for business for anyone with an Internet connection anywhere

399
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,119
Speaker 1: in the world. Um. And you know that's why you

400
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,880
Speaker 1: might say the capital of bitcoin is not New York

401
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,760
Speaker 1: or Washington, but probably Lagos, Nigeria. You know, this is

402
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 1: like a place, a country of two and a million

403
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 1: people where you know, just a just a massive and

404
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 1: growing number of millions of young Nigerians are turning to bitcoin, um,

405
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 1: not just as a place to store their wealth over time,

406
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: but as a place to connect with the world. And

407
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: that's what I want to talk about now. A little

408
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 1: bit is like bitcoin as a as a sort of

409
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 1: digital cash, as a bridge between people as something that

410
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 1: can connect us in a world that has way too

411
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 1: many walls. Right. So again, anyone with the Internet, whether

412
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 1: you're in China or Iran or wherever, you can access

413
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,119
Speaker 1: this thing and that there's no gate or barrier to

414
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 1: prevent you from doing so. So I've I've interacted with

415
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 1: all kinds of bitcoin users in the countries I just mentioned,

416
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 1: I mean in Gaza in Cuba and in places that

417
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 1: I'm usually not allowed to have connection with, Like I

418
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 1: can transact bitcoin with these people. It's this really beautiful

419
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 1: thing that brings us together, and what makes it possible

420
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 1: is the Lightning network. Like and look, I know a

421
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 1: lot of critics, especially in New York Times Lost Real Journal,

422
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 1: there are always trashing bitcoin from being slow and expensive. Okay, yes,

423
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 1: on chain bitcoin over time is going to be slow

424
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: and expensive compared to visa. Yes, it's gonna take ten

425
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: twenty minutes to settle. And the fees right now they're cheap,

426
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 1: they're like fifty cents, But like, I think fees will

427
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: be considerable on chain in the futures maybe more okay,

428
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 1: maybe a lot more. Um. However, what people did is

429
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 1: they heared out how to scale Bitcoin using a second

430
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 1: layer called the Lighting network. And with Lightning Network, you

431
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 1: can send bitcoin instantly and basically for free anywhere on Earth.

432
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: And it's a little more privacy protecting even in Bitcoin

433
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,719
Speaker 1: because it's not happening on the chains. You can't have

434
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: chain surveillance messing your stuff up, right. So the cool

435
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: part about Lightning is it's really getting adopted massively around

436
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 1: the world. So Twitter, the actual platform, Twitter has now

437
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 1: partnered up with a company called Strike to allow creators

438
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 1: to accept Lightning donations. So I just turned it on. Yeah, no,

439
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: it's awesome. I just turned it on a couple of

440
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,959
Speaker 1: days ago, connected my Strike account, and I've been receiving

441
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 1: Lightning tips from god knows who all over the world,

442
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 1: like they come in all the time, people who are

443
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 1: happy about my articles or whatever. And it's just so beautiful.

444
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: It's so cool to be connected to the community in

445
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,679
Speaker 1: that way. And it's it's nice to see Twitter connecting

446
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: itself to an open monetary network, and that's what bitcoin is. Now.

447
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 1: There's a country that just did it too, in El Salvador,

448
00:22:55,359 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: like this small um relatively impoverished Central American country decided

449
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: to add bitcoin as a legal tender about a month ago.

450
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: And this is revolutionary for many reasons. I mean you

451
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: could you could see it in the same historical lenses,

452
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,400
Speaker 1: you know, the Brits events in central banking, uh five

453
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: plus years ago. Okay, well, i'll Salvador is the first

454
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 1: country to add an open, decentralized currency for the population.

455
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: Now the rollout is hotly contested. The leader doing it

456
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: is is authoritarian in my view, and we need to

457
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 1: be careful to separate and the acts of choosing bitcoin

458
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: for the people as opposed to some China currency or

459
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: some CBDC or some surveillance coin. Right. Um, they chose bitcoin,

460
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 1: which is amazing. Um, we need to separate that from

461
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 1: like cheering for that government, which is which is a

462
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 1: dangerous government. I would say, So these are going to

463
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: be nuanced things, and you're about to live, you listening,

464
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: are about to look through a decade where dozens of

465
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: other governments adopt bitcoin, and they're they're not all going

466
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: to be ones you like, right, So, I mean I

467
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 1: thought it was going to be like a rogue regime

468
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: that would that would use this thing first, right. Um,

469
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: It's sort of similar to the idea of the beginning

470
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 1: of the Internet. Like when the Internet first came out,

471
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: there was a lot of criticism, Oh, it's gonna like

472
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: empower sketchy people. Like, yes, well, in the beginning, it

473
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: was only used for it was used for porn, like

474
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: that was its main use case. And actually when the

475
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: well and when the VCR came out, the VCR was

476
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 1: only used for porn before Disney used it, and then

477
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: the Internet was only used for porn. And so usually

478
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 1: technology seems to have like some sort of nefarious use

479
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: case before it gets Yeah, there's always edge users at

480
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 1: the beginning, Like even when bitcoin was first invented, like

481
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, the silk Road was one of its major

482
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: first use cases, right, Okay, but we're way beyond that now,

483
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: Like now we're at like governments adopting bitcoin, right, so,

484
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: like we're so far much further along in bitcoin's history

485
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 1: than at that point. And you know, governments of all

486
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: shapes and sizes, corporations of all shapes and sizes are

487
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: going to be forced to use it, not out of

488
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: any any altruistic reason, but simply because it's the best money, okay,

489
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: and it's the it's the best way for them to

490
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: preserve their purchasing power over time. That is what is

491
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: going to force them to use it that they don't.

492
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:01,959
Speaker 1: They're not gonna have to think about it much more

493
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 1: than that, right, And and the cool part is that

494
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: whether or whether they like it or not, these corporations,

495
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: these governments, whether it's Tesla, whether it's Square, whether it's

496
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: Um Paul Tutor Jones or other billionaires, whether it's governments

497
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: like El Salvador, whether they like it or not, when

498
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: they adopt the coin, they helped strengthen this like global

499
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: freeding tool. And that's like this fascinating mechanism at work here. Yeah,

500
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: everyone's a freedom father, fright or whether they realize it

501
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: or not. Um. The one thing that I just think about,

502
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: and I know both of us have been down to

503
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: El Salvador, and you've been at the forefront of this, Uh,

504
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: definitely more than me. But I've traveled quite a bit.

505
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm a surfer, so I traveled to these very remote

506
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: locations to chase remote waves. So I've witnessed this and

507
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: I think more people, especially when I say, should travel

508
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: to get that perspective. But even though I knew what

509
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: was going on down there, it wasn't until I actually

510
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 1: put boots on the ground that it really was like

511
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: this epiphany where you actually see it and you realize,

512
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: you know specifically there it's like kind of solving this

513
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: remittance problem where that of having to ride a bus

514
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: for two hours to to send Salvat already get my

515
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: money and then write two hours back and then potentially

516
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 1: get robbed with cash and then losing whatever fees. Now

517
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: I can just get it instantly. And when you have

518
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: something that's uh, not just a five or ten percent

519
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: incremental improvement, but a hundred x or a thousand x

520
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: improvement like this is, I mean, it just it just

521
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: can't be stopped. So, UM, I want to talk about that.

522
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: I want to talk about UM. I love the fact

523
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: that you said we need to kind of separate the

524
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: politics of what may be happening in El Salvador versus

525
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: bitcoin the tool, and I think it's important to look

526
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: at that. So I want to talk more about that,

527
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: and then UM, when I get back, I want to

528
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 1: also talk about some questions I had post from the

529
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: audience that I want to ask you as well. UM,

530
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: so we'll get into more of that as well. UM.

531
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: I'm with Alex Gladstein from the Human Rights Foundation. UM.

532
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: Follow him on Twitter at Gladstein. Of course. On Mark

533
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: Moss is the Mark Mars Show. You can follow me

534
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: number one, Mark Moss. And we're talking about bitcoin UM

535
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: being you used as a human rights tool, UM, which

536
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: I think is so important. And so we'll be right back.

537
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: All right, you are back with the Mark Moss Show

538
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: talking about bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, the decentralized revolutions, and I'm with

539
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: Alex Cladstein from the Human Rights Foundation. Follow them on

540
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: Twitter at Gladstein and look up the Human Rights Foundation

541
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 1: online and find out what they're doing. But we were

542
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: right in the middle of talking about, you know, how

543
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: bitcoin can solve all these humans rights issues, and we

544
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: are specifically talking about El Salvador UM. One thing. You know,

545
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of news about UM the politics

546
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: down there and is the president of dictator is he

547
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 1: going to try to UM change it so he can

548
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: stay in power? Is he using bitcoin to steal from

549
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,239
Speaker 1: the people and all these things? UM. I don't know

550
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: enough about the politics, UM, but I think you made

551
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: a great point, which is we need to separate UM.

552
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: You know, bitcoin being UM a tool that could be

553
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: used by anybody, and then what the politics are. But

554
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: one other point I'd like to just get your opinion on.

555
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: I know, like I said, we've both been down there

556
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: and and witnessed this in real time. Is uh, and

557
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: I think maybe you've you've kind of said that you

558
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: weren't a big fan of it. But he basically forced

559
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 1: in a law of making bitcoin legal tender, and so

560
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 1: per the law, everyone uh you know, I guess as

561
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: a as a merchant is required to accept it because

562
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: it's legal tender, and so they have to allow someone

563
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: to pay that way. Um, it seems like from the

564
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: way I understand the law, they have to allow someone

565
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: to pay that way, but they don't have to receive

566
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: the bitcoin or hold bitcoin. And so I know some

567
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: people have kind of been outspoken where well bitcoin should

568
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: be free to adopt, it shouldn't be forced onto people. Um,

569
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: where do you think of how do you see that? Yeah?

570
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: I mean, like personally, I hope I wish they hadn't

571
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: made it, you know, enforced in that way. I think

572
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: it should be voluntary. However, as a bitcoin user and

573
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: someone who thinks it will become more popular in the future,

574
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: I knew this day was coming, Like I knew one

575
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: day a government would do this, Like at some point

576
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: I just didn't think it would happen. I think this

577
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: was like way, um, but this the government of al

578
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: Savador has like self interest in trying to like basically

579
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: boost its nation into the future by like making them

580
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: a bitcoin economy. Like it feels that it can gain fame,

581
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: which it already has. I mean, is like easily the

582
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: most famous Central American leader now and no one knew

583
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: he was like a year ago. Um, it feels like

584
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: it can gain foreign investment, which it's gaining for sure.

585
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: It feels like it can gain notorid like like basically publicity,

586
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: which which I mean Al Savador had never been on

587
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: the cover or is a feature in any financial magazine ever.

588
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: I mean, the only thing that this country led the

589
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: world in as of four or five years ago was

590
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: murder rate. Okay, And all of a sudden now like

591
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: people are debating you know, it's it's it's it's like

592
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: fintech innovation, which is really remarkable, and a lot of

593
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: Salvadorans are happy about that. You know, some aren't, but

594
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: a lot are. So I think it's interesting how um,

595
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: you know, we can argue about the legal tender part um.

596
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, like I mean,

597
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: I think every citizen in the world should have the

598
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: ability to have bitcoin is legal tender in their country. Um. Now,

599
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: is that going to happen? No, no way, There's no

600
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: way that governments right now will do that. However, I

601
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: think some governments will start to and it's the beginning

602
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: of a trend. And you know, some governments will simply

603
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: adopt bitcoin as a reserve asset um for their national savings.

604
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: Others will do more like El Salvador is doing. Others

605
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: will try and incorporate it for remittances. Like there's every

606
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: reason for countries like Tana which which are of the

607
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: GDPs relying on remittances, or country Stickle Salvador relying on remittances,

608
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: or even countries like Nigeria which are even like around five,

609
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: you know, relying on remittances. If you're a gross domestic product,

610
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: if you're revenue as a nation is significantly derived from remittances,

611
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: then you have every reason to want to shift to

612
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: a lightning network based system where these corporations and these

613
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,479
Speaker 1: middlemen don't suck value out of your citizenry and therefore

614
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: out of your tax base. Right, Like you're self interested

615
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: to attach yourself to this open monetary system. And when

616
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: you think about what's happening now Salvadorans the United States.

617
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: There's two million plus Salvadorans the United States, right, they

618
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: can now go UM Like you know, there's a video

619
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: of someone in Atlanta. They can just go to like

620
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: the embassy UH if they wanted to and deposit cash,

621
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: physical cash and to achieve a machine in Atlanta, and

622
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: and and their family can like receive it immediately and

623
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: then just like withdraw into bitcoin or cash in El

624
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: Salvador without dealing with remittenance companies. Like that's kind of amazing.

625
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: The more amazing thing is that any Salvador in the

626
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: United States or anywhere in the world can send a

627
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: lightning network instant payment to anyone with a state run

628
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: achiev a wallet or anyone with a non custodial open

629
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: source wallet in El Salvador instantly, and the value just

630
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: goes peer to peer and there's no blood sucking middleman

631
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: in the middle. Right. So this is like we are

632
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: moving forward in terms of UH financial technology, like legacy

633
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: stuff like Western Union. These are like blockbusters and this

634
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: is like dinosaur tech and we are like obliterating it

635
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: with like this open source wave of technology. That's that's

636
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: really going to help connect us all again in a

637
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: world with a lot of bridges and a lot of barriers.

638
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's to me, it's a quite beautiful thing.

639
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: One thing that you know, you've talked about four billion,

640
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: four and a half billion people living under authoritarian regimes,

641
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: and I think it's pretty easy to see that the

642
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: world is trending towards authority ternism, and technology is given

643
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: a more and more tools they need to even you know,

644
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: continue to build that at the authoriternism. I've often been

645
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: saying that I think the only thing that breaks that

646
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: trend of of us moving towards oor aternism is really

647
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: competition and so um when we're able to leave, like

648
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: a sovereign individual says, like a cow grows wings and

649
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: flies away, if enough people leave, the nations will be

650
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: forced to kind of change. And uh, like China did.

651
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: They were called I mean us, they were trailing the world.

652
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: They had open up to a little bit of freeports

653
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: and capitalism to compete. Um, and we're seeing this playout

654
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: in real time now with El Salvador as you were

655
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: making the case just by a simple act of making

656
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: bitcoin legal tender, Like you said, all of a sudden there, uh,

657
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: now you know who the president is. They're making news headlines,

658
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: but even more important, they're attracting massive amounts of capital

659
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: coming into the country just by one small thing. And

660
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: I think that that competition loop that will see more

661
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: countries want to jump in. You already named a couple

662
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: of countries that are thinking about it, and I think

663
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: that could really start to accelerate this trend um and

664
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,959
Speaker 1: eventually maybe hopefully force those authority countries that will continue

665
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,479
Speaker 1: to have this downward decline because of that grip. Uh,

666
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: get them to kind of force or change their perspective.

667
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think about that? Yeah, look,

668
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: it's inevitable. Look, this is a people's revolution. It's being

669
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: led by the people. I mean, they're of all bitcoin users,

670
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: plus are not in El Salvador. Like, there's more Indian

671
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: bitcoin users than there are Salvadoran's. Okay, so let's not

672
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: lose sight of the fact that this is a global

673
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: phenomena where El Salvador has played it. Yes, an important,

674
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: but relatively very small role um. This is an individual

675
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: citizen led thing where people are peacefully opting out into

676
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: a new system, and if the thing grows big enough,

677
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: it's gonna snowball and it's gonna start, you know, bringing

678
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: governments with it. One thing that I would be remiss

679
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: to not mention, um, would be bitcoin mining. I just

680
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: think real quick that this is going to have a

681
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: huge impact on the world. And what's interesting is you're

682
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: seeing the Salvadoran government now start to use its volcanic

683
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: energy to mind bitcoin. Like they're just geothermal heat, carbon neutral,

684
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: kind of green volcanic energy. Um, that's just sort of stranded.

685
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: They're turning that into money through through bitcoin mining, which

686
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 1: converts electricity into money. UM. So you're seeing that happen

687
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: all over the world. So in Bruna Park and the

688
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: DRC in Central Africa, they're turning flowing water into bitcoin

689
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: through hydro dams. Um. You're seeing people turned sunlight and

690
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: too too money through solar farms, wind farms turning air

691
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: into money. Like this is going to happen all across

692
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: the emerging markets and like basically countries are gonna start

693
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 1: realizing that they can like actually raise money, raise bonds,

694
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: et cetera. Through stranded renewable energy resources. And in my view,

695
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: it's going to help sort of like green the planet

696
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: as like we have new incentives to use stranded renewable

697
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 1: energy resources. And to me, this is really important because currently,

698
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: like fossil fuel companies have like such a stranglehold over

699
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the energy market and a

700
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: lot of our a lot of our lives. I mean,

701
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: they undergird the petro dollar, which is what the U. S.

702
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: Dollar really is, and you know, I think that's bad

703
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: for human rights. Look at leads to our relationship with

704
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia and now, like to back these thugs for decades,

705
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: leads to wars, it leads to conflicts. UM and we

706
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: have a new we have a new option now, like

707
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 1: people can opt into a new currency that's not backed

708
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: by violence or thugs or warships or the U. S.

709
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: Military or by oil. Like we have a new current.

710
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: And see that's that can be backed entirely by clean

711
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: energy and he can be run by the people themselves.

712
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,439
Speaker 1: And I just think that's a beautiful vision for the future. Yeah,

713
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: it is, and it's going to reshape the world. You know,

714
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: typically a country would be UM typically was by the

715
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: natural resources where they had gold or oil, and now

716
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 1: nations that had no natural resources but they have energy

717
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: could have bitcoin. Um. This is the Mark Maas Show

718
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio Network with Alex Gladstein from

719
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: the Human Rights Foundation. Check them out at h r

720
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: F dot org. Follow Alex at Gladstein on Twitter, and

721
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: of course I am one Mark Moss on Twitter. With that,

722
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: I gotta wrap it up. Thanks for listening to The

723
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 1: Mark mos Show.