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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It took fifteen years of

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Speaker 1: his mother begging for justice, literally standing at intersections with

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Speaker 1: a poster stating, my son was murdered. Please help me.

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Speaker 1: She called state reps, she called congressmen, she called senators,

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Speaker 1: She called everybody she could. She contacted local law enforcement.

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Speaker 1: She begged, she pleaded, she showed up. Nobody would listen

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Speaker 1: to her. Her son disappeared. Okay, it took the mother

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Speaker 1: fighting all those years for a real investigation to go down.

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Speaker 1: Then her son's body was fished out of a local lake.

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Speaker 1: It was determined to be a quote accidental really b s.

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Speaker 1: Because of Mike Williams's mother, Sheryl, a road to justice

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Speaker 1: was paved. Denise Williams, Mike Williams's wife, and her lover,

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Speaker 1: Brian Winchester aka Mike Williams's best friend, murdered him in

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Speaker 1: the last days. Wait for it, the entire horrific saga

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Speaker 1: unfolds on of course, a made for TV murder series. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she gets her own series on Hulu called Mister and

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Speaker 1: Missus Murder. Cosh talk about glorifying murder. Okay, you know

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Speaker 1: what this is what really happened, don't fall for some

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Speaker 1: glamorous actress and actor playing the part of the killers.

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Speaker 1: They are nothing but satan and Bill's a up. This

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Speaker 1: is what really happened Segment two.

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Speaker 2: Alton Renu and David Barnett were among the first law

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Speaker 2: enforcement officers to get a call about a missing duck hunter.

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Speaker 3: What we thought had happened is that he possibly fell

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Speaker 3: out of the boat or capsized.

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Speaker 2: Early the next morning, there was a break. Mike's boat

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Speaker 2: was found. On board were some decoys and his shotgun,

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Speaker 2: but no sign of Mike himself.

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Speaker 1: What happened? Out duck hunting husband Mike Williams goes missing

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Speaker 1: near Tallahassee, his body believed to be in the water.

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Speaker 1: But oh at a tangled web we weave when first

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Speaker 1: we practiced to deceive Nancy Grace here Crime Stories, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. Straight out to John Limley,

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter John Limley, how did

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Speaker 1: this guy, an experienced hunter, fall overboard? I mean, what

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Speaker 1: does buddy say about how he fell overboard?

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Speaker 4: It was a complicated story, to say the very least.

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Speaker 4: As Denise Williams begins the tale to police on the

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Speaker 4: morning of December sixteenth, her husband woke up early, leaving

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Speaker 4: their house on Centennial Oak Circle well before dawn. Bowt

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Speaker 4: in tow to go duck hunting at Lake Seminole. This

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Speaker 4: is a large reservoir just west northwest of Tallahassee. The

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Speaker 4: couple actually had plans to celebrate their sixth wedding anniversary

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Speaker 4: that night in Apple at Chicola at noon.

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Speaker 1: Denise, stop right there, John Limley, investigative reporter. Or have

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Speaker 1: you ever been to Appalachicola?

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Speaker 5: I have not.

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Speaker 1: Actually, it is some of the prettiest beach I've ever

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Speaker 1: seen in my life. Nobody seems to know about it.

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Speaker 1: And in Appalachicola, I'm telling you, you can get the

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Speaker 1: best oysters in shrimp at this little place called Boss Oyster.

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Speaker 1: And I have a very strong suspicion they may have

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Speaker 1: been going there to celebrate. I mean, Ashley Wilcott. This

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Speaker 1: is on the Panhandle and it is beautiful. It's really

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Speaker 1: the salt life. Everybody has a boat, whether it's a

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Speaker 1: little skiff or a big, beautiful expensive thing. Everybody has

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Speaker 1: a boat, even if it's tiny, and they are out

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Speaker 1: on the water. They are fishing. They are living the

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Speaker 1: salt life. I'm telling you Ashley, you know about the Panhandle, right.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I've been and I agree with you. It's absolutely gorgeous.

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Speaker 6: It's a whole different attitude because it is the soul life.

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Speaker 6: They are on the boat, they're enjoying life. They're out

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Speaker 6: in the beautiful weather, beautiful beaches, beautiful fishing.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you a little story, Ashley. My dad who

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Speaker 1: you know, don't tell my husband, but I still say

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Speaker 1: he was my soulmate. It is from a little city

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Speaker 1: called well, it's not really a city called hay Cody. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's really a place hay Cody. I think that's an

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Speaker 1: Indian name. And it's near to give you a perspective,

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Speaker 1: it is near Mobile. Okay, it's near Sampson, which is

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Speaker 1: near Mobile. That's how you have to find it. So

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Speaker 1: long story short, it's the Panhandle, Alabama, Florida Panhandle. And

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Speaker 1: he grew up crabbing and fishing, and I remember going

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Speaker 1: to these exact spots as a little girl, and my

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Speaker 1: sister and I were supposed to watch the crabs not

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Speaker 1: get out out of the net, and of course they would,

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Speaker 1: and we'd run away from the crabs. Okay, but the

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Speaker 1: beaches are so deserted you could get them right back in.

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Speaker 1: That's where they were. They were all along the Panhandle,

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Speaker 1: but they were on Lake Seminole. All right, sorry, John Lanley,

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Speaker 1: I digress, Go ahead, back to the store.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely well, it was at noon that same day that

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Speaker 4: Denise calls her dad to let him know that Mike

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Speaker 4: had not come back. That's when her father hopped in

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Speaker 4: his car drove with Mike's best friend, Brian Winchester, to

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Speaker 4: the areas of the lake where they knew Mike Williams

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Speaker 4: frequently went duck hunting. They were able to find his night.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, the wife goes with

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Speaker 1: the friend to look for him. It wasn't the friend

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Speaker 1: with him when he fell in the water or.

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Speaker 4: No, Well, this is later in the day that Brian

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Speaker 4: Winchester goes with them with the dad where they knew

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Speaker 4: that he went duck hutting, and that's when they found

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Speaker 4: the nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 1: Five You're so not answering my question. I'm asking you,

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Speaker 1: John Limley. Did the victim in this case go with

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Speaker 1: his longtime high school friend, Brian will Winchester duck hunting?

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Speaker 1: And absolutely why were they? Okay, they were duck hunting

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Speaker 1: out on a boat. Correct, So you go out into

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Speaker 1: the water to scare the ducks up out of stumps

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Speaker 1: that are are swampy area? Is that why they were

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Speaker 1: out on the water shooting guns?

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Speaker 4: Right, usually go into an area that is camouflaged by

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Speaker 4: a lot of vegetation.

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Speaker 1: Do you know that, John Lemley, You've never really struck

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Speaker 1: me as a hunter or out in a swamp.

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Speaker 4: I try to research, well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you don't know firsthand? No, I do not, okay, Bober,

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Speaker 1: doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist. I don't really see you

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Speaker 1: as the type out in a uh uh no, not

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Speaker 1: out in a boat and a swamp with a gun

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Speaker 1: shooting at ducks. Yes, no, maybe doctor boat okay, boating

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Speaker 1: or hunting, it's probably not me, okay, all right, So

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Speaker 1: I'm down to Karen Smith. Karen Smith, you actually seem

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Speaker 1: the most likely to go duck counting of this bunch.

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Speaker 1: Does that make sense to you what they're saying?

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Speaker 7: I have no idea. I have never duck hunted either.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So it's on me, all right, Actually,

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Speaker 1: I guess you know there's a lot of stumps and

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Speaker 1: growth and trees out in the middle of swampy area.

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Speaker 1: So I guess the ducks are hiding there and you

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Speaker 1: scare them up and shoot them. That's my guess. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I didn't see a gun or touch a gun until

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Speaker 1: I was a prosecutor, contrary to everyone's beliefs about the

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Speaker 1: south Land. So they're out in a boat. Let me

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Speaker 1: make it get back to you, Limbley. They're out in

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Speaker 1: a boat. They're shooting ducks. And this is what I

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Speaker 1: don't understand. The high school friend, I mean they're grown now,

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Speaker 1: is out fishing with I mean shooting with him. Why

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Speaker 1: are you telling me Limley that they go back to

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Speaker 1: where they think he was? Doesn't he know where he was?

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Speaker 4: Well, that's where the stories begin to get really tangled

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Speaker 4: and confusing, because one story is being told by Denise,

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Speaker 4: another by Brian. He comes back into the city and

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Speaker 4: is now helping the dad look for his best friend,

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Speaker 4: and so the timelines very clearly do not match up.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't see a problem so far. I don't

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Speaker 1: even know what you're talking about, John Lemley, because you're

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Speaker 1: saying the friend Brian Winchester, goes out with Mike. They

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Speaker 1: go duck hunting out in Lake Seminole. He falls overboard,

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Speaker 1: the friend comes back, and then the wife gets involved.

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Speaker 1: I don't see the inconsistency with that. Am I missing

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Speaker 1: something because that's all I've heard from you so far.

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Speaker 4: Well, the story at that point was that he didn't

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Speaker 4: know fully what happened to his friend Mike. They were

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Speaker 4: looking for for what happened to him.

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Speaker 1: He's sitting in the boat and then he disappeared. You

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Speaker 1: know what, That reminds me of Ashley Willcot. That reminds

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Speaker 1: me one of my favorite shows, Bewitched. He actually just disappear,

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Speaker 1: But that was a TV show, Ashley. People don't just disappear.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. See, you can tell already the story's a little flimsy.

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Speaker 1: And he said some stinks.

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Speaker 6: Who fell overboard and then he was gone.

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Speaker 4: It stinks.

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Speaker 6: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: Listen to our friend at CBS forty eight hours, Mike

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Speaker 1: Slushians are talking with Alton Ary, Me and David Arnie.

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Speaker 3: We're done a grid search, very slow, meticulous grid search,

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Speaker 3: back and forth over.

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Speaker 2: The search area, and what began is a search and

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Speaker 2: rescue soon turned into a search for a body. Cadaver

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Speaker 2: dogs were brought in while teams scoured the murky bottom

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Speaker 2: of Lake Seminole in a gruesome search for Mike's body

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Speaker 2: that was high intensity and low tech.

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Speaker 3: That was that was actually one of the poles.

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Speaker 2: And all you do is put it in the water

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Speaker 2: and see if you feel anything.

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Speaker 3: If it's a log, it's kind of a thump, kind

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Speaker 3: of a hard thump. If it would been her body,

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Speaker 3: you hit it, it's kind of like a pillo.

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Speaker 2: Did you feel something ever on the bottom that felt

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Speaker 2: like a never never?

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Speaker 7: Maybe he just a man in his family or something

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Speaker 7: like that.

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Speaker 3: That was the strongest scenario of everything that we had.

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Speaker 2: It was did you believe that?

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Speaker 5: I mean, did you think that was possible? I thought

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Speaker 5: that was possibility.

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Speaker 4: What did you think?

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Speaker 8: We knew Mike could not run off. I mean, he

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Speaker 8: loved his family and he adored his daughter, adored her.

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Speaker 8: So Mike did not run off. This was not some

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Speaker 8: elaborate ruse.

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Speaker 2: Soon there was another explanation offered for why Mike's body

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Speaker 2: could not be found, that he had been snatched by

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Speaker 2: an alligator.

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Speaker 1: What happened to husband and father Mike Williams He goes

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Speaker 1: out duck hunting and never comes back. Was it an

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Speaker 1: elaborate ruse to get away from responsibility. Was he held

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Speaker 1: by his high school friend Brian Winchester longtime best friend

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Speaker 1: from high school? Or is he a fatality? Was his

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Speaker 1: body at the bottom of Lake Seminole being stored by

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Speaker 1: an alligator dismembered Joining me Ashley Wilcott, judge lawyer. You

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Speaker 1: can find her at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Karen Smith,

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Speaker 1: renowned forensics expert, doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, and joining

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Speaker 1: me right now Crime online dot Com investigative reporter John Limley.

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Speaker 1: So John the friend Brian Winchester. I would have hooked

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Speaker 1: him up to a polygraph pronto to figure out if

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Speaker 1: he helped Mike Williams, you know, take a powder crap

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Speaker 1: out on his wife and family. So the wife is

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Speaker 1: in hysterics, Denise Williams. You can't find Mike Williams anywhere,

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Speaker 1: not his jacket, not anything belonging to him. Brian Winchester

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Speaker 1: is the last one with him out in the middle

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Speaker 1: of Lake Seminole on a boat. And then you get

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Speaker 1: the final decision by the police. Will and alligators dismembered

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Speaker 1: him and is storing him for when he gets the

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Speaker 1: munchies in about six months. So that's what we know, So,

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Speaker 1: John Lumley, what happens next? Did any part of the

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Speaker 1: body ever surface or was there a sighting of Mike Williams.

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Speaker 4: There was no body parts or no sightings at all. However,

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Speaker 4: within days parts of his clothing started showing up along

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Speaker 4: the shore in different places. The initial search was handled

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Speaker 4: in a way that they were viewing it as a

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Speaker 4: missing hunter, and the agency handles those cases in a

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Speaker 4: completely different way, focusing on search and rescue or recovery.

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Speaker 4: So in their minds, they're looking for a living person.

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Speaker 4: But when these pieces of clothing began popping up, that's

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Speaker 4: when investigators began to think they're dealing with something else.

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Speaker 1: Well, not everybody bought the alligator story. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to Telehouse Democrat reporter Jennifer Portsmouth reporting on Mike's mother.

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Speaker 9: She never ever believed that her son was in the lake.

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Speaker 5: Not from day one. Not from day one did she

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Speaker 5: think of that.

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Speaker 9: She didn't know. All she knew was that her son

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Speaker 9: was not in that lake. She just knew it, like

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Speaker 9: a mono, something just deep inside of her, and she

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Speaker 9: was absolutely committed to finding out what happened to him.

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Speaker 10: It's never out of my head. Where is this child?

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Speaker 10: He maybe did, but he's not in that lake. And

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Speaker 10: if somebody did hurt my child, I want them found out.

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Speaker 10: I want them hunt.

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Speaker 1: Karen Smith, forensics expert. If they have the boat, what

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Speaker 1: if anything could that prove?

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Speaker 7: Well, it could prove a lot of different things. Nancy.

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Speaker 7: Did the boat have water in it? Was it completely dry?

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Speaker 7: You know these small boats they tipped, they're going to

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Speaker 7: have water in it also. But it's clothing. You know,

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Speaker 7: alligators at that theory pans out, they're not delicate eaters.

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Speaker 7: Where their rips were their tears? Was the clothing indicative

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Speaker 7: of a gator attack? Was there any other forensic evidence

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Speaker 7: within that clothing? You know, the boat itself, was his wallet,

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Speaker 7: there was his information? There was there other indicators. Was

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Speaker 7: his gun still laying there? Was his gun missing? If

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Speaker 7: he was duck hunting? All of these things are going

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Speaker 7: to play into a timeline, and it's going to play

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Speaker 7: into what really happened.

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Speaker 1: So as one piece of clothing after the next starts

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Speaker 1: floating up to the surface, everyone's looking for Mike Williams.

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Speaker 1: Did he just leave town or did an alligator devour him?

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Speaker 1: How did he get in the water to start with

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Speaker 1: to John Limley, what can you tell me about his background?

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Speaker 1: For instance, how did he meet his wife Denise?

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Speaker 4: Well, Denise and Mike were actually high school sweethearts. It's

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Speaker 4: that great old story that we hear so often and reality,

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Speaker 4: you know, most of the time it's not true. In

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Speaker 4: this case, it is. They met at North Florida Christian

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Speaker 4: School in Tallahassee, and most details from their early lives

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Speaker 4: to the couple's college days at Florida are interchangeable. Both

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Speaker 4: were active in extracurriculars through high school. Mike was a

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Speaker 4: promising football player, voted best Personality. His wife, then known

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Speaker 4: by the maiden name Denise Merrill, was a cheerleader for

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Speaker 4: the North Florida Eagles. Former classmates and even then current

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Speaker 4: friends of Mike say he was very well respected, then

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Speaker 4: at private school, then in business, where he excelled in both.

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Speaker 4: It wasn't unlike Mike to step into the role of

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Speaker 4: a protective older brother and to look over younger friends

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Speaker 4: and family members. Mike and Denise graduated in nineteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 4: alongside classmates Brian Winchester and his future bride, Kathy Aldridge.

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Speaker 4: The two couples remained close as they each married in

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Speaker 4: nineteen ninety four and had children.

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Speaker 1: So those coach couples became very best friends. They're all

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Speaker 1: they go way way back. Now. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: William's the victim. As a matter of fact, Mike Williams

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Speaker 1: and Brian Winchester, hey gone duck hunting that day and

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Speaker 1: then somehow he disappears. Everybody has to the lake together

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Speaker 1: with their boat to start searching, and they search in

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Speaker 1: the dark hours and hours and hours until Winchester and

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Speaker 1: his dad stumble on Williams's motorized canoe and it was

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Speaker 1: kind of uptouching the lake shore. They found his Ford

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Speaker 1: Bronco about seventy five yards away, abandoned, and that's all

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Speaker 1: they found. But eventually, after they searched, they found at

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Speaker 1: the very bottom of Lake Seminole, his hunting license, his jacket,

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Speaker 1: his waiters. Investigators convinced Williams was eaten by alligators. Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, The brutal murder of a loving

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Speaker 1: husband and father Mike Williams is now the subject of

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Speaker 1: a brand new docuseries called Mister and Missus Murder. If

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Speaker 1: it had not been for Mike Williams' mother ryl. This

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Speaker 1: would never have been uncovered, and Denise Williams and Brian

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Speaker 1: Winchester would be skipping along their merry way laughing at

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Speaker 1: not only dead Mike Williams, but everybody else, including the

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Speaker 1: justice system. This is what really happened. In the weeks

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Speaker 1: and months that follow nobody finds them, but then Denise

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Speaker 1: the wife goes broke.

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Speaker 2: And Scott Dungee says, now that Denise was a single mom,

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Speaker 2: money was getting tight.

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Speaker 5: I was helping her.

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Speaker 11: With some of the items that needed to be sold

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Speaker 11: to generate some cash until the insurance money came, and.

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Speaker 2: There was a lot of insurance money involved. Williams had

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Speaker 2: three policies worth more than one point seventy five million dollars.

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Speaker 9: While the search itself is still going on, while he

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Speaker 9: is still actively missing, they're still actively searching for him.

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Speaker 9: She is going and filing a claim against his life insurance.

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Speaker 2: According to Florida law, since there was no proof Williams

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Speaker 2: had died, he would not be declared dead for five years.

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Speaker 4: How much time did.

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Speaker 5: It taken this case?

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Speaker 1: It took six months.

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Speaker 2: That's because Denise's attorney argued to a judge that the

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Speaker 2: waiters the vest and the hunting license were proof enough

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Speaker 2: that Williams dead. The judge agreed and issued a death certificate.

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Speaker 2: Cause of death accidental drowning while duck hunting on Lake Seminole.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to John Limmley, investigative reporter with Crime online

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Speaker 1: dot Com, John Limley, the facts to me are very confusing.

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Speaker 1: Let me understand this. Did he go out originally alone

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Speaker 1: on the boat or was he with the high school friend.

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Speaker 4: They allegedly chose December ninth as the day Winchester would

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Speaker 4: take Mike on a duck hunting trip, knock him overboard,

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Speaker 4: and stage his death as a boating mishap, But the

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Speaker 4: morning of the trip arrived and Mike called Winchester to

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Speaker 4: back out. Winchester invited Mike to go on another duck

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Speaker 4: hunting trip, but it seems no one else in Mike's

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Speaker 4: family knew that he was meeting Brian. So it was

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Speaker 4: in the early morning hours of December sixteenth that the

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Speaker 4: two pals launched their boat out into Lake Seminole. When

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Speaker 4: they reached a landing down from where they parked their vehicles,

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Speaker 4: Winchester got Mike to stand up, and that's when he

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Speaker 4: shoves him overboard. After that, Mike takes off his jacket,

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Speaker 4: takes off his waiters. Was in an absolute panic, and

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Speaker 4: Winchester says he was driving the boat, didn't know what

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Speaker 4: else to do, and then ends up shooting his best friend.

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Speaker 4: Winchester then allegedly dragged his friend's body to the shore

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Speaker 4: put him in the back of his Chevrolet Suburban. He

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Speaker 4: then pushed Mike's boat back out into the water and

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Speaker 4: headed back to his house, where his wife Kathy was

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Speaker 4: still asleep. Kathy, of course, knows nothing about any of this,

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Speaker 4: and Winchester says he got undressed, got back into bed,

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Speaker 4: and pretended that he.

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Speaker 1: Just woke up as usual. It's not all as it seems.

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Speaker 1: I want you to listen to high school friend Brian Winchester.

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Speaker 5: We launched the boat. It was just like a hunting

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Speaker 5: trip was supposed to be.

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Speaker 11: The plan that was discussed and come up with was

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Speaker 11: that he was going to be wearing waiters, and leef

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Speaker 11: was somebody falls in the water with waiters, you're.

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Speaker 5: Going now, So we went out like we were going hunting.

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Speaker 11: Got to the area where his waiters and jacket were found.

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Speaker 11: I got him to stand up and I pushed.

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Speaker 5: Him into the water.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing longtime high school friend Brian Winchester describing

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Speaker 1: breaking down crying he pushed his friend from high school

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Speaker 1: into the muddy waters of Lake Seminole Ashley Wilcott. I mean,

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Speaker 1: from the very beginning his story didn't make sense to me,

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Speaker 1: but to push somebody into the water. But you know what,

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Speaker 1: Ashley hold on. I want you to hear this.

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Speaker 12: He got his jacket off and his waiters off, and

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Speaker 12: he was in a panic.

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Speaker 5: Obviously, I was in a panic. I was dropping the.

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Speaker 13: Boat and I didn't I didn't know what to do,

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Speaker 13: and I ended up shooting him.

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Speaker 1: I ended up shooting him. To ash will court judge,

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Speaker 1: lawyer or at as she will caught dot com as

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Speaker 1: she will caught, it's like he didn't do it himself. Well,

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Speaker 1: I ended up. And I've seen that so many times

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Speaker 1: when defendants give statements or they're you know, stupid enough

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Speaker 1: to take the stand where they just going the gun

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Speaker 1: went off, No, you pull the trigger. What happened, Ashley

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Speaker 1: is he tricks his friend Mike Williams into standing up

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Speaker 1: in the boat, okay, the little skiff. When he stands up,

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Speaker 1: he pushes him in the guy can swim he's an athlete,

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Speaker 1: all right. Remember captain of the football team, Hunter Fisher.

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Speaker 1: The works. The guy swims to a swamp, a stump

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Speaker 1: or something in the water, and he's not dead, he's

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Speaker 1: not drowning, even with the waiters on. He gets his

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Speaker 1: jacket off, he gets his waiters off. So what does

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Speaker 1: Winchester do. He starts circling him in the boat. Can

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Speaker 1: you imagine Mike Williams clinging to a stump in the

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Speaker 1: middle of Lake Seminole and his best friend is circling

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Speaker 1: him in the water and finally gets close enough and

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Speaker 1: shoots him multiple times. That's what happened, Ashley.

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Speaker 6: That's exactly what happened, Nancy, And that's horrific.

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Speaker 1: And think about this.

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Speaker 6: There's also testimony by Mike that he had to take

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Speaker 6: time to load his gun. So not by Mike, I

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Speaker 6: apologized by Brian Winchester. So Mike's in the.

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Speaker 14: Water, really literally hanging.

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Speaker 6: On to life on a tree and he has to

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Speaker 6: watch his quote unquote friend load his gun to circle

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Speaker 6: around to then shoot him.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's to doctor Daniel Bober, forensics psychiatrist, this

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Speaker 1: is not a stranger on stranger attack. This is his

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Speaker 1: high school friend. They're grown now, they're both married with families,

393
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Speaker 1: and his high school friend, his best friend for twenty years,

394
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Speaker 1: shoots him dead. How does that happen?

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Speaker 7: You know, Nancy, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how he could have thought he was

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Speaker 1: going to get away with this.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's just a you know, there's like a lot,

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Speaker 2: It's like a trail of breadcrumbs.

400
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Speaker 7: Given these connections of all these people, it just seems

401
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Speaker 7: silly to me that they thought the story would be

402
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Speaker 7: plausible at.

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Speaker 1: All, you know, when you get right down to it, though,

404
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Speaker 1: doctor Bober, I've been asked so many times about motive.

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Speaker 1: The state, of course doesn't have to prove a motive

406
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Speaker 1: for murder, but it always boils down. Aren't money, sex,

407
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Speaker 1: slash love, revenge? Anger? It's it's always one of those four.

408
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Speaker 1: I mean, it's got to be one of those for

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Speaker 1: doctor Bober, agree or disagree?

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Speaker 5: No, I totally agree.

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Speaker 2: I think that pretty much encompasses all the motivation.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends. At forty eight hours.

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Speaker 9: She wrote the governor a letter every day.

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Speaker 1: For nine years.

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Speaker 8: She was absolutely possessed with finding this out.

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Speaker 5: What had happened to mine and your God?

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Speaker 1: Tells me in my honor that that childish dad I

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00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: cannot hear us looking for crime stories with Nancy Grace,

419
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: a brand new docuseries is handed over like a silver

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Speaker 1: platter after Denise Williams and her lover aka her husband's

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Speaker 1: best friend. Wow, some friend murder Mike all raised in

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00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: deeply Christian households. What went wrong? How long story short?

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Speaker 1: I guess what you have to do to get a

424
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: TV documentary is to murder your spend or something equally

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Speaker 1: as horrible. Mike disappeared after going on a duck hunting

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Speaker 1: trip Lake Seminole that's a little north of Tallahassee. When

427
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: he didn't return, a search ensued. His boat and car

428
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Speaker 1: were found, but not his body. Believe it or not,

429
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Speaker 1: many assumed, I wonder where this rumor started that he

430
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Speaker 1: had been eaten by alligators. Right blamed the alligator, but

431
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: his mother Cheryl never believed it. Now a series on

432
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: Hulu does it glorify the killer killers? This is what

433
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: really happened.

434
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 7: This man was murdered, and they blamed it on alligators.

435
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: For seventeen years, many a murderer has been blamed on

436
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: an alligator. But that's exactly what did not happen in

437
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: this case. As a matter of fact, what we learned

438
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: was happening is that after many many double dates together,

439
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: Brian Winchester falls in love with Mike Williams's wife, Denise Williams,

440
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: and on one of their double dates, they start kissing

441
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: after a discussion about six Wow, what a surprise. So

442
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: now we see it's not an alligator wanting a snack.

443
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: It's a love triangle, Ashley Wilcott.

444
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 14: Absolutely love triangle. Not only that, but it comes out

445
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 14: they were having an affair before they before the victim

446
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 14: was shot in the face of murder.

447
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, they go on and they

448
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: married John Lemley. How long after Mike Williams is shot dead?

449
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 4: To the two Mary, it was just a year and

450
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 4: a half before they married.

451
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: As the years dragged on, it looked like the mystery

452
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 2: of what happened to Mike Williams might never be solved.

453
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 2: If Brian and Denise knew anything about Mike's disappearance, they

454
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 2: weren't talking and no one could make them. By Florida law,

455
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: as long as they stayed married, neither could be forced

456
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 2: to testify against the other. But behind the scenes, Denise

457
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 2: and Brian's marriage was disintegrated.

458
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: Wow, can you imagine that? So Mike Williams is gunned down,

459
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: his widow, Denise Williams, gets that life insurance policy over

460
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: a million dollars and marries the high school best friend,

461
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: Brian Winchester. You know, are you surprised, Ashley that over

462
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: as time passes, the two start hating each other, the

463
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: high school friend and the widow who are now married

464
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: and joined at the hip and bound together by murder.

465
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 14: No, I'm not at all surprised. There is such a

466
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 14: concluded web as you already alluded to. Oh the tangle

467
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 14: web we weed and it was. There were multiple affairs

468
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 14: by different partners in these two marriages that led to this.

469
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 14: And Nancy, let me add this to your little food

470
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 14: for thought. There were three life insurance policies that amounted

471
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 14: to one point seventy five million dollars, and guests who

472
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,239
Speaker 14: who wrote put together two of those policies? You got it?

473
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 4: Brian Winchester.

474
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: Okay, So John Lumley and investigative reporter Crime online dot Com.

475
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: The two wouldn't talk. How was the case cracked?

476
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 4: Well, a story emerges of Brian actually kidnapping Denise. This

477
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 4: is such a bizarre twist to the story. Denise and

478
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 4: Brian separated in twenty twelve, reportedly due to his sex addiction.

479
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 4: She filed for divorce in twenty fifteen.

480
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: So he's a killer and he has a sex addiction. Absolutely, okay,

481
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: go ahead.

482
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 4: Denise tells the Leon County Sheriff's Office that on an

483
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 4: August afternoon, the day when the appraisal of their home

484
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 4: had been filed with court, she left her house to

485
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 4: drive to her at Florida State University. While she's on

486
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 4: the phone with her sister, she sees someone climb over

487
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 4: the back of her car, and it turned out to

488
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 4: be Brian. He takes her phone away begins yelling directions

489
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 4: to her. She didn't comply until he shows a gun.

490
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 4: She said later that he claimed that this was necessary

491
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 4: since she was not taking his calls and was blocking

492
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 4: his text messages.

493
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: Well, and the whole time she knows he's already killed.

494
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: Once listen to Denise Williams in her own words, he's

495
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: reading and.

496
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 5: I'm just like shaking and people are going to notice that.

497
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 2: Denise reported her kidnapping to the Leon County Sheriff's office.

498
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: I was like, are you planning on you know, any

499
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: both of our last day or mine?

500
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 5: I'm planting on mine. And then you said I want

501
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 5: to kill my hest just said.

502
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 4: Many times I want to kill myself.

503
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: Brian Winchester was soon arrested and charged with the kidnapping

504
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: and aggravated assault of his wife.

505
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 8: I was just kind of agreeing with whatever he was saying,

506
00:32:58,560 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 8: and as I know that you.

507
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: Love, police quickly realized that the rift in Denise and

508
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 2: Brian's marriage presented an opportunity.

509
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: So after she then Karen Smith goes to police saying

510
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: she's being kidnapped. I guess she had no idea that

511
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: everything she was saying was breaking the husband wife privilege.

512
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: But how can you back up her story?

513
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 7: That's a really good question other than words at this point,

514
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 7: because they don't have forensics, they don't have the gun.

515
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 7: All they have is what Denise is telling police at

516
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 7: this point.

517
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: So John Lumley, after she goes in on the kidnapped,

518
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: the alleged kidnap, how did they get the truth out

519
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: of her?

520
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 4: Well, the case really, as you mentioned, really cracked open

521
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 4: with this break in their bond, the marriage bond legally

522
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 4: and he began to tell investigators details as well. This

523
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 4: is during the investigation of the kidnap and in December

524
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen, Winchester was sentenced to twenty years in prison

525
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 4: for the kidnapping. Now, no mention was made of the

526
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 4: Williams case at Brian Winchester's sentencing. However, there was some

527
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 4: sort of deal that was reached that would reduce his

528
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 4: sentence for information in the case, specifically what happened and

529
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 4: where the.

530
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: Well hold on. Let's go to Ashley Wilcott judge and lawyer.

531
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: Didn't he get immunity?

532
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 14: He sure did, Nancy, he did get immunity, and they took.

533
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: Life in prison off the table for the kidnapping charge.

534
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 4: He got both.

535
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 1: So how long is he's a sugarman? So in order

536
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: to testify against his new wife, Mike Williams widow, how

537
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: much time is he going to get?

538
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 14: He gets none for killing. He got immunity, so he

539
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 14: gets none for killing. Now the only caveat is they said,

540
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 14: if there's any new evidence discovered outside of your version

541
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 14: of what happened, we could prosecute.

542
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 4: On the new evidence.

543
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 14: But he told the whole shebang, the whole story, So

544
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 14: I cannot imagine that happened.

545
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: So on twenty years, we'll probably do about ten. Yes, okay, man,

546
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 1: you're not kidding. A kidnapping, a murder, a cold blooded

547
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: murder Denise Williams. The jury return a verdict guilty on

548
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: all counts. A TV series glamorizing a cold hearted killer

549
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: Mike Williams's wife. What really happened is that his best friend,

550
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: who was sleeping with his wife, takes Mike on a

551
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: trip to Lake Seminole. They take the boat to a

552
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: deep part of the lake. Winchester pushes Mike in the

553
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: water with hopes he would drown. He didn't drown, he

554
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: had to kill him. The two killers stated they preferred

555
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: the idea of drowning because it would quote make them

556
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: quote feel better about ourselves if there was a chance

557
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: he can make it out of it. It will be

558
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 1: up to God what happens, not us. It won't be murder,

559
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: it will be an accident. Really, you're trying to drag

560
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: God into this. Mike was an excellent swimmer, and he

561
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: removed his jacket and waiters in the water and last

562
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: onto a floating tree. Winchester loads his gun, drives over

563
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: to Mike and shoots him.

564
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 7: In the head.

565
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: Yes, that's what happened. Then these two pieces of crap Mary.

566
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: After murdering Mike, we wait as just as unfalls. Goodbye,