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To learn more, 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:36.880 visit about hb X dot com slash how Stuff Works. 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:39.720 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:48.320 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:52.120 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Christian Seger. So, Robert, 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.160 you and I both play video games. We do. We've 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.200 both been playing Fallout for Yeah, I was playing fall 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.200 for Now I'm playing x coom To. But both have 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.760 one huge thing in common, and that is that they 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:11.800 both of these games involve soldier characters essentially engaging in 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:18.560 sci fi battles and and then consuming various pharmaceutical products 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.920 in order to survive. The horrors of war, to heal themselves, 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:25.720 to avoid going crazy, to go just the right amount 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:30.680 of crazy to overcome the obstacles. My my fallout for 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:35.280 character is a big time drug addict, like major issues 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:39.440 with drugs, because I just constantly and like putting what 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:42.840 like jet and psycho and buff out into my like 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.399 system so that I'm like better fights and um and 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:48.760 you can combine them in this game, can Yeah. So 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.040 he's also or it's actually ah, is my character is 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:53.840 she in this one? No? In Fault four, I have 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:58.520 a male character. But anyway, Yeah, he's constantly brewing up concoctions, 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.520 little cocktails of stimulant drugs and then you know, of 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.160 course and follow you eventually get that thing where if 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:07.920 you take too many of them you start seeing side effects. 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.000 So my character is to the point now where he's 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:14.520 always carrying around whatever the like detox drug is, yes, 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.920 and like popping those so that like he can sober up. Yeah, 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.920 my character she did. She never she never had a 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.040 lot of stuff and abuse problems in the thought for 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:26.839 but I did reach the point where she was having 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:31.480 to carry around the the anti addiction medication and just 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.320 tons of buff out, which is like the steroid that 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:38.800 allows you to carry more items because going out fighting enemies, 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.000 having to loot the enemies, and then can't move because 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.239 I'm carrying so much stuff, I have to start using 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.760 the buff out. Yeah, that's an you know what, I've 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:49.840 never thought about using buff out to do that before, 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.079 but that totally makes sense. I usually just turned my 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:56.240 companions into pack mules, just make them carry everything. Well. 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.480 So the reason why we're talking about this this isn't 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:01.919 the hasn't become a video game podcast if you're a 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:06.760 regular listener, But we are curious about the science of 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:11.680 combat drugs and where we're at with that in modern 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.040 day society. And what seems to have sparked this was 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:17.080 a recent episode of Black Mirror. Yeah, yeah, the I 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.360 want to say it's the fifth episode in season three, 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:23.040 an episode titled Men Against Fire. We're not gonna go 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.799 into any spoilers to that episode until perhaps the very 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:28.480 end of the episode. We'll give you fair warning, uh, 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:31.720 but suffice to say it deals with this topic in 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.840 um and I thought a rather rather thought provoking manner, 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:38.680 and so we did the research on this. We've got 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:43.520 some science on military chemistry to share with you today. 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.120 The phrase that I came across that I really like 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.760 is better warriors through chemistry. Um. It is a complicated, 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:56.040 uh topic, especially in terms of ethics. And I didn't 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:58.360 you know, I guess, like in the back of my head, 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:00.400 despite the fact that, like you and I read science 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.160 articles on a pretty regular basis, I thought that it 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.440 was a little more sci fi than it actually is. 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.200 Like my version of it, I was like, oh, yeah, 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:11.920 like sure, there's got to be a drug that gives 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.080 you better eyesight right now or something like that, you know. Um, 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.680 And I think what it's reminding me of is our 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:22.840 episode on cyborgs. And one of the articles for this 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:28.360 research did refer to the ways of using drugs on 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:32.719 soldiers to make them better warriors as a version of 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:36.479 cyborg ism. Um. And and actually this is a good 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.919 way to lead into there's article in the Bulletin of 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:45.200 Atomic Scientists called the Enhanced Warfighter, and in that they 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.560 argue that there are four different categories for the potential 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.640 enhancement of military personnel, and the ones they list our 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:55.240 genetic alteration of the human body, which is very controversial, 0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:00.359 physiological monitoring, and a tighter coupling between man and sheen. 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.960 Pharmaceuticals was what, which is what we're mainly going to 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:07.279 focus on today, and then nutrition and supplementation, which we 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:09.800 will also talk about today. They they in that one 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.039 on that's kind of a positive note, right like the 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:16.320 other three or varying levels of creepy. But then oh, well, 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.600 you know they should eat. Well, that's there's nothing intrinsically 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.320 horrible about that. Well, it turns out, and we'll get 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.480 to this later that there are some issues surrounding dietary 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:28.080 supplements of the military as well. Um, but today we're 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:32.599 really interested in the pharmaceuticals. One. As of eleven, nearly 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.960 a hundred and ten thousand active duty army troops and 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:38.360 we're talking about United States troops here because that's where 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:44.760 we're based in UH they were prescribed with either antidepressants, narcotics, sedatives, antipsychotics, 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.239 or anti anxiety drugs. This is eight times the amount 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.320 that was reported in two thousand and five. I guess 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.080 you could some people would just chalk that up to 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:59.000 a higher usage of those UH medications in society in general. Yeah, 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:00.800 I think I mean that's one one take you can 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:02.600 you can have on it, is that certainly we live 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.440 in a more medicated society. Yeah. But then of course 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.400 the other side is that like this is war, and 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:13.320 war has always been a traumatic endeavor absolutely, um. And 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:17.360 so the ultimate reason why science is reviewing all of 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.919 this information is the continual belief that the government and 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:27.400 the military must balance long term health hazards with the 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:31.479 drug effects that are designed to reduce a soldier's risk 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.240 for injury or death. So, of course you want to 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.720 make sure that your soldiers survived the experience, but you 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:40.840 also want to make sure that in the long term 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:44.640 when they get back, they're they're healthy both physically and mentally. Um, 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:46.600 that you're not subjecting them to something that they didn't 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.960 sign up for. Yeah, because you know, we we turned 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:53.479 to these sci fi examples. But a real life soldier 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.200 is not a space marine. It's not this, uh, this 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.120 inhuman individual who goes out and just battles bad guys 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.400 his or her entire life and you know, and it 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:06.960 doesn't have a family or other concerns. There are individuals 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:10.760 who who go off into this endeavor and then I 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:12.960 want to come back, expect you to come back and have, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.800 if not a completely civilian life, then at least have 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:20.920 these these non warfare modules to their existence. Yeah. Well, 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.920 one of the articles that I read described it as 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.160 it might have actually been this atomic scientists one. Um. 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.240 They said, you know, we need to remember that these 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.760 are people and not machines. Um. And yeah, like you may, 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:37.000 military officials may treat them like machines, like when they're 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:42.000 strategizing war. Right. But yeah, like you said, like they 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.080 you eventually want them to be able to return to 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.280 civilian life, and presumably so do they. Yeah, it's not 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.400 something you have to worry about an x com right exactly, 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.320 nor in fallout. There's no real civilian life except for 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.920 I don't know, hanging out on the beach with your 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:58.760 with your dog. I guess that's a little bit of 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.080 a civilian life. Us. You could the game is open 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.360 enough that you could carve out a civilian life. But 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:05.880 you can get married or where I don't know, married 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.760 isn't the right term. But I have multiple uh uh 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:13.880 spouses throughout the waste land. Oh well, my character is 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:19.040 polygamous in that. Uh So, yeah, let's get into it. 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:24.200 Better warriors through chemistry. So for military officials, performance enhancing 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.240 drugs are seen as the key to the success of 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:31.120 military conflicts. What they're imagining is the ability to keep 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:35.040 soldiers fighting for days at a time without rest and 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.400 with the ability to perform in ways beyond the level 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:43.200 of most of today's enlisted people. Specifically, we're talking about 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.040 the ability to operate without sleep. That is seen as 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:50.000 a game changer for military affairs, and it changes the 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:54.120 concept of what is referred to in strategy as operational tempo. 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:58.400 This is beyond dealing with sleep deprivation in PTSD as well. 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.040 There are also hopes that chemistry will allow soldiers to 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:06.040 reduce their acclimatization to high altitudes or to being under water. 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.440 And of course, if you're a soldier, why wouldn't you 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.280 take a performance enhancing drug that's going to increase your 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.520 chance of coming home alive? Right, Um, So there shouldn't 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.040 be I'd like to stress this, like, there shouldn't be 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.040 like negative value judgments on the soldiers that are doing this, 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.560 especially like in some cases we'll find out like it 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.480 is required of them as part of their military service. 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.480 But the reason why it's becoming more prevalent is we're 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.160 moving into this era where more wars are going to 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:38.320 be fought using attack aircraft that are flown for really 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:43.239 long distances, and as more adversaries developed ballistic missile technology, 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.440 we are going to attack from further away. Right, there 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:51.679 will be further back, longer flights. And you'll find out 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:53.000 today like a lot of what we're going to talk 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.840 about with stimulant uses is based around air force pilots, 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.840 long flights, long bomber runs. Historically, that sort of thing. Uh. 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.920 And so according to ABC News in two thousand and seven, 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.880 the military spent a hundred million dollars a year. That 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.680 was ten years ago, so it's probably I don't know 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:12.839 what it's up to now. I couldn't find research on that, 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.440 but they were spending that much money a year on 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.720 research to find ways to reduce soldiers need for sleep 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:26.320 while retaining their cognitive functions. So that's hugely important to them. Um, 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.079 So let's segue into this. That is of course a 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:33.840 major reason to stay alert, to be motivated, But what 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:35.840 are the other reasons? Why would you What are the 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.679 other reasons you would take various drugs? Right? We think 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.720 about like the video game ones. While there's like healing 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:48.000 drugs or strong drugs, steroids, Uh, there's ones that slow 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:49.920 down time. I don't think we have those in real 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.520 life yet not not exactly um like I guess you 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:59.000 could say relative relativistically speaking. But and then there's those 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:03.240 that make you work se as well. I'm reminded again, 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.120 like time and time again, of the the old adage 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.120 that that a battle is one not necessarily by large, 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:14.199 sweeping advantages, but by a whole lot of small, sometimes 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:17.560 petty advantages that are stacked one on top of the other. 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.199 So like every advantage that you can take, you take 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.520 because it it all can add up and uh and 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.280 and so it's kind of like filling out the character 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.520 sheet of the average soldier is like, yeah, of course 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.760 we're gonna buff that stat. Of course we're gonna buff 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:32.600 that stat. If we can buff that stat, will buffet 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:36.480 because buffing all of these stats improves the potential for 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.600 victory and both small and large victory, and of course 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:44.559 survivability of the soldier. Now we run into their additional 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.480 concerns when you start talking about long term survivability and 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.280 start talking about mental health. But we'll get into some 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.560 of that. Yeah, but I never thought about that before. 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.800 It is we're what we're talking about is essentially like 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.920 the minimaxing of warfare in the same way that like 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.959 people do with video games like World of Warcraft or 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.040 or tabletop games like D and D or something like that, 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:10.319 And like they're they're trying to fine tune uh their 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.880 warrior so that like it has all of the advantages 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.160 available to it, right, all the tools in the toolbox 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:22.280 are there. Uh, well, outside of being alert and motivated, 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:26.960 of course, being better and stronger and faster. Right the 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:31.720 old Daft Punk song, Uh, that is hugely important war 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.160 for the most part, outside of well, even with drone 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.160 drone use in some cases, I mean, you're still talking 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.719 about war as a physical exercise. Yeah, So steroid use 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.720 is up in military personnel, and in two thousand eight 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.319 it was one point nine percent. Uh, in two thousand 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.360 two it was only point nine percent, So there seems 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.080 to be a gradual rise going on there. But let's 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.760 be clear, the possession of steroids without a doctor's prescription 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.880 actually counts as a violation of the Uniform Code of Justice. 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.640 But some soldiers take them anyways to enhance their physical 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:08.000 abilities during combat. Again, as I was saying earlier, like 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.560 if you think that's gonna increase your chances of coming 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.000 home alive. That makes sense, right, Uh, so they get 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.640 them smuggled in mail order packages or they pass them 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.360 along by American contractors. But officials really keen to a 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.640 whole lot about this because it apparently would cost hundreds 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.120 of dollars just to screen each package in person, which 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:31.120 is outside of you know, the military's budget. The most 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.240 popular one. And I read this and I thought, wait 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:37.000 a minute, that's not steroid. Is five hour energy, which 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.800 you know you see commercials for all the time. We 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.400 keep boxes of it here at work. That's right, yeah, 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:49.000 we do. Um get this, the military alone makes up 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:53.280 nine point two million dollars of that company's sales. But 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.320 then this is even crazier. That's only one percent of 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.559 their annual sales. I had no idea five hour energy 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.120 drink was that big man, I mean me neither. I 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.840 mean I know that it is everywhere, like literally, anywhere 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.640 you can buy something, there's gonna be a little a 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:11.000 little cube of those tiny bottles. So there's a lot 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.680 of it being used in the military, But it's also 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.360 only a fraction of what that company is selling to 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:21.960 the world. I think I've maybe had it once. Um, 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.360 it's just never been appealing to me, But well, it's 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:28.520 not supposed to taste of right, Yeah, yeah, I have. 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.280 I've taken them more times than I than you care 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.640 to admit, would care to admit her account in my head? Um, 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:36.840 But you know that's the thing is like, sometimes it's like, 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:38.600 all right, I can shoot this thing, or I cannot 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.640 shoot this thing. If I shoot this thing, I'm gonna 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.480 have a momentary scowl on my face. But maybe have 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.040 you know a few more hours of energy to devote 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.120 to this test? Well in the concern and again like 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:50.960 five hour energy. I just kind of thought of it 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.880 as being like red Bull. But apparently the concern is 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:57.760 that the drink is actually impairing personnel performance and it 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.560 causes soldiers to sleep less, so much so that they're 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:02.920 dozing off while they're on duty. So there is a 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.160 little bit of a problem associated with it. Some soldiers 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:10.920 also take over the counter diet pills, diuretics, and laxatives. 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.760 This is what I was talking about, nutritional supplements so 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.600 they can meet the military's weight and fitness guidelines. I 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.760 didn't think about this either. So a two thousand three U. S. 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:25.560 Army Research Institute study on non prescriptions supplement use. Found 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:30.920 that nine of Special Forces soldiers used supplements of some sort, 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:36.640 so that's a lot um six sorry, seventy of support 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:41.240 soldiers also used them. And then the big example that 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.600 popped up here that made it that highlighted it tennis 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:49.160 player Maria Sharapova. Do you remember this when she used 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.000 a drug during like a tennis I think it was 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.360 the Australian Open maybe um and so she was subsequently 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.440 banned from this. It's a drug that was developed by 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:02.200 the Soviet military during their invasion of Afghanistan so that 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.080 their soldiers could focus under stress. And it's called meldoni um. 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.239 It's used to treat heart disease and other chronic conditions 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.480 pretty much on a regular basis in Russia and Eastern Europe. 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.200 It's also referred to as mill drawn eight and it 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.080 was developed by a guy named Ivars Kelvin's when he 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.760 was studying mechanisms of stress on the human body. Well, 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.960 so it was used in Afghanistan by Russian soldiers because 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.680 it helped them with high altitude oxygen deprivation. Now to 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:33.240 be clear here, Sharapova said the reason why she took 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.000 it was because she had a family history of diabetes 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.800 and low magnesium levels. She wasn't even aware that it 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:43.920 was illegal outside of Russia. Calvin's the guy who invented it, essentially. 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.280 For his part, he said, he doesn't even think that 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.680 it should qualify as as being something that provides an 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:54.800 unfair athletic advantage. So there's a lot of little little 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.240 ways out there, from five hour energy drink to these 0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:02.200 like obscure Russian medications soldiers can take to enhance their performance. 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.120 It's interesting and looking at both this um this Russian 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:07.400 medication and the use of the five hour energy drinks 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.919 because we kind of get into this whole uh like 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.840 the hopeless Ebo effect again, and and and sort of 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.440 just putting a mild supernatural faith in whatever you're taking, 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:19.919 like is it actually helping you out? Is it providing 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:24.119 an athletic advantage? Is it actually is it actually making 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.159 an impact and your performance as a soldier, or is 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.119 it just hurting you when the pendulum swings back the 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:33.160 other way? It's uh an open question. I didn't add 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.120 this to the notes here, but one of the articles 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:36.879 that I was reading, like, I was talking about how 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.520 when he was at West Point he was basically doing 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.320 like an op ed piece for The New York Times 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.920 about his experience in the military and the various drugs 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.679 that came along his way while he was serving, and 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:49.680 he said it started when he was at West Point 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:53.840 and that, like everybody where, it was taking adderall to 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.000 help them to just be able to take their tests 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.600 and do the physical uh, you know, completion of of 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.919 their service required there. So yeah, I think it starts early. 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.560 It seems like it's common. But like you said, I 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.960 mean Adderall five hour energy drinks, Like this is stuff 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.480 people I went to high school with. You know, we're 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:17.920 using We didn't have five hour energy back then. It 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.879 was different stuff. But uh, you know what I mean, Like, 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:26.040 it's not like they're shooting heroin to get through classes. Yeah, 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.480 I mean, I mean Adderall is a prescription medication. Yeah, 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.720 it's pretty pretty potent stuff, it is. Yeah. That and 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:36.600 and that actually leads us, speaking of heroin, uh to 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.919 the next reason why a soldier would need drugs to 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.640 kill pain obviously. Yeah. Physical, It's like you said, war 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:46.520 is a physical is a physical enterprise, and it's a 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.440 bit of physical enterprise in which both sides are trying 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.400 to hurt and kill the other. So they're gonna be injuries, 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.680 and you're gonna want to kill the pain in those injuries. 0:18:55.880 --> 0:19:01.440 So combat medics often prescribe pain killers, and that includes ox, cotton, vicodin, 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.960 and morphine. Uh And in fact, like on a long 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.640 term basis to like they'll give them, you know, prescriptions 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.080 that last for a number of days so that they 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.080 can keep them on their feet. And this has always 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:17.000 been a h an issue soldiers coming coming back from 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:19.639 the war effort having to deal with injuries, having some 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.600 sort of medication uh in in in the mix and 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.000 it becoming a problem. Like I'm always so reminded of 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:29.080 the John Priyan song Samstone, I don't know that one 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.119 of the most depressing songs you ever heard, with the 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.200 about a guy who comes back from the war addicted 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.080 to morphine, with the course there's a hole in Daddy's 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.640 arm where all the money goes. It's a wonderful song, 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.160 but it'll it'll destroy yourself. Well yeah, I mean it's 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.520 a very real thing. And of course, the military doesn't 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.159 want an injured soldier to leave the war zone, so 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:52.440 they've designed these pharmaceutical prescriptions so that soldiers stay on 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:54.960 their feet. They're they're continually in the war zone unless 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:58.520 they're you know, significantly injured. The downside is, like you said, 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:03.400 addiction and medication swapping is real common too. Okay, so 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.320 what about soldiers who come back from war and they're 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.119 dealing with trauma. We've talked about this a lot on 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.920 the show before, especially on We have a whole episode 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.200 out there about using m d m A to help 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.000 with PTSD. That's right. We also have one of the 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.480 Tetris episodes that Joe and I did a wombat gets 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.440 into ways that that may be used to help PTSD, 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.600 as well as our recent dream episodes that discuss some 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.840 of the ways that dream management software and dream manipulation 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.919 could be utilized, as well as other techniques involving the 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.320 selective deletion of memories. We also past podcasts to do 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.040 with that. Now, there are a few different PTSD medications 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:42.960 that are currently in use, and we'll get to those 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:46.120 in a bit. But of course, where is the post 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.919 traumatic stress coming from. It's coming from the traumas of 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:54.200 war and and this gets into another possible area, another 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:59.720 possible reason a military might want to augment their soldiers chemically, 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.840 and that is to make killing easier. Now there's this 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:08.280 is not something where there is you know, this is 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:10.520 this is not an area where you see a lot 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:14.200 of actual uh you know, research popping up was saying like, oh, 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:16.320 here here's something that certainly nothing where you see the 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:18.600 military saying, oh, they give this to soldiers to make 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:23.639 them make them more okay with killing. But a great 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.800 deal of the of military training is about trying to 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.840 hone soldiers performance so that they can kill when it 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:32.480 is required of them. And then a lot of the 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.879 problems with PTSD is sort of fixing things afterwards, because 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.560 one of the things it's easy to forget, especially as 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.119 we're you know, we're watching movies, we're playing video games, 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:45.520 is that is that killing is not easy for the 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.920 vast majority of pete UM. Most of us don't have 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.080 the experience of taking a human life in a combat situation, 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:54.640 so we can't even really compare it. We can only 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.200 compare it to these fictions. But it's actually quite a 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.399 bit of evidence out there that backs up the notion 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:03.399 they we have as humans a natural aversion to killing 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:06.240 each other, and aversion that is that is present in 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.240 typical human specimens and must be circumvented in the name 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:12.399 of war, and a lot of of the evidence for 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:15.720 this comes from military researchers who have a vested interest 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:20.119 and of course mapping and breaking those barriers from training. Yeah, again, 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:22.919 like it comes down to I don't know, maybe this 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:26.520 is a cress uh metaphor, but like I'm thinking again 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:30.480 about this, like minimaxing of a soldier, right, and this 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:35.800 is like you want to negate the effects, the emotional 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.840 and psychological effects that would go along with you know, 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:43.600 any quote unquote normal person killing someone else. Yeah, like 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:46.119 I come back to xcom or and and and X 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:49.240 calm to where you're moving these soldiers around, and yeah, 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:51.200