WEBVTT - Colorism 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.480 Hey, fam I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.840 Red Table Talk podcast, all your favorite episodes from the 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:10.000 Facebook watch show in audio, produced by Westbrook Audio and 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.120 I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.840 on Apple podcasts. Hey everybody, I hope everyone's doing well 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:20.480 out there. Before COVID nineteen, Red Table Talk had already 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:23.799 been filming, but once the pandemic hit, we realized that 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.880 we had to put those particular episodes in a vault. Well, 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:29.840 now we feel like we can share them with you 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.040 now if you see us close together, that's why. But 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:37.080 we love these episodes, and our first one is colorism. 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.080 And this is a subject we've been wanting to bring 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:42.720 to the Red Table for a very very long time. 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:49.000 So now we are on this Red Table Talk. This 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:54.840 is like the secret, the thing we don't want to admit. Colorism. 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:58.840 It's discrimination or prejudice based on skin tone from members 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:04.360 of the same race. It began during slavery. Owners often 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.080 raped their slaves who gave birth to light skinned children. 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:11.800 They were given preferential treatment. Lighter meant better, smarter, and 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:16.240 more beautiful. This hateful bias seeped into black culture and 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:20.920 continues to divide us whether you're dark, light, or in between. 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.679 The complexities and conflicts within our own race when it 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.160 comes to the shade of our skin are devastating, deep rooted, 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.360 and affect us. All. This red table is devoted to 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:35.200 our beautiful dark skinned sisters like my lifelong friend Mia 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:39.760 and her daughter, my niece Madison, who are revealing the 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.360 deep wounds caused by colorism as she got darker. I 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:47.760 was like, oh, this is a problem. Wow, my grandmother, 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.840 she definitely did not like dark skinned people. I've gotten 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.520 buoyed one kid in particular, he would always call me 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:59.360 like blackie, And we confront our own preconceived prejudices right 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:01.600 here at the table. They're gonna put you in a 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:12.239 light skin fair category. You consider me fair? Yes, the 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.760 conversation is really going to be intense. Maybe it's a 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.560 new thing, but I definitely feel like nowadays, like in 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.520 the dating world, dark skinned girls in particular feel like 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:25.919 they don't get as much absolutely attention as light skinned 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:29.320 girls get. Yes, And I don't think that's new. I 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.320 think that's that's been the case for years and years 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.080 and years. Yeah, I actually had the opposite in my 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.760 experience kind of being picked on for being light skinned. 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:43.080 And also I remember having plenty of conversations with you 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:48.120 and Aunt Karen about not revealing other heritage in my 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:52.120 blood that it was like, you're black and that's so 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.119 much about not revealing. It was like, don't get don't 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.079 get it twisted. Listen. Karen's like, don't talk about it 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.560 because it means absolutely nothing. Your black. Yeah, don't let 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:04.680 me hear you talking about you got this in your blood. 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.800 You've got that in your blood. You got that your blood. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.280 She was like, it doesn't matter. People think it was 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:11.359 because you were trying to be like I'm above this, 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.960 Like I'm above back in the day, like you know, 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.200 you would always hear black people, Oh I got empty 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.840 in at me and all of this and not wanting 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.920 to be not black, still not owning our own blackness. 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.720 And that's just a result of you know, all the 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:31.160 brainwashing that has happened over the years that started from slavery, 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:36.320 with the perpetuation of white supremacy or lighter skin supremacy. 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.680 It's true, and it's not with just women. That's the 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:44.320 other thing. Then darker skin also have a very very 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:48.400 difficult timely. Darker Black men are targeted. Yeah, definitely, that 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:53.600 it is for them to negotiate the corporate world, corporate America. 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.880 My husband had to do it. My my husband, one 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:59.560 of your third husband, I think it was, Yes, your 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.480 third has been had to deal with that. Yeah. All right, ladies, 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:05.080 Well I say we take it to the table. Are 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.400 you ready? Let's do it? All right? Okay, gam that listen. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:12.560 I know I'm stressed already. I'm stressed already. It's such 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:19.240 a sensitive issue. So that you know. This one here, okay, 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:24.040 miss me and Pitts is my lifelong friend, okay, And 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.360 we went to high school together. I did a year 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.719 of college with her before I quit. We have lived 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:36.159 together several times, we worked together every day, and so 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:38.960 she has been a big part of my life for 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:43.800 a long time. And Miss Madison here, this is her daughter. 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.560 We also grew up together like my niece. She and 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:51.360 Willow grew up together. So this is family right here. 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.120 And I really wanted to bring her on to talk 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:59.040 about colorism because she and I had several conversations over 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.640 the years about this issue, so I thought she would 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:10.359 be perfect. I know, it's chocolate thunder, Okay. It was 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.120 crazy because when I was getting myself together. I was like, oh, 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:16.839 this is kind of a plunging uh neck run here. 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:20.240 But it's also a part of the character that I created, 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.560 a part of my colorism issues that I had because 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.400 I never considered myself beautiful, so I always would go 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.960 to the other side of the spectrum of being sexy. 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:31.640 That was one of the ways that I could sell 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:36.039 myself in another way outside of my skin color. I 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:41.080 think it was a camouflage for not having being told 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:46.000 that from men, primarily like you're beautiful. When did you 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:51.240 start to feel like you had issues with your skin color? 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.080 You know? I really I didn't really realize how many 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.200 problems I had with it until we were dancing with 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.000 the Knicks and one of my be A friends says, Hey, listen, 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:06.040 you know, it's a shame that you're not going to 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.960 ever be able to marry an nbair an athlete because 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:10.599 they're not going to be able to see you because 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:15.760 you're so dark. We ultimately choose women that are lighter. 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.560 And that was said by a black man. Yeah, it's 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:23.200 always like, oh, you're so pretty for a chocolate It 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:28.560 wasn't full impact until I had madisone. As time went on, 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.719 I noticed that she was just getting darker. As she 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:37.760 got darker, I was like, Oh, this is a problem 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.600 because somehow or another along the line, you become inadequate. 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.560 And I just didn't want that for her, Like I 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.239 don't want her to have to have the same type 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:52.120 of scenarios that I did, like never being told that 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:57.640 you're beautiful, but I unconsciously started putting that on her, 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.640 like oh, you're such a you're so pretty, for your 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:05.200 skin is so beautiful, Like always over complimenting her on 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:09.760 her skin and to the point where it could cause 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:11.960 her to have a complex, like well, what's the difference 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.400 with my skin that you're always talking about my skin? 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:19.240 Every time Madison wanted a toy or anything, it would 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.520 have to be a black toy. If she wanted a 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.880 white doll, Oh no, no, no, no, we can't get 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.040 that doll. It's we have to get a doll that 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.280 looks like us. Like I went on a whole thing 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.280 of trying to find like all these beautiful black women 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.000 so that I could just show her the imagery so 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:37.520 she could feel good about who she was. Ultimately, I 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:42.280 was crushing her with too much of it instead of 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:47.800 just allowing her to be who she was without having 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.600 to have consciousness on her skin color. Yeah, Madison would 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.520 have been some of your experiences, well, you know, going 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.400 to like a predominantly black elementary school. That's why was 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:02.880 my first experience. I got bullied in one black kid 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.280 in particular. He would always say, like, your skin looks 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.600 like poop and like call me like blackie. And I 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:10.040 remember going home to my mom of course, like crying, 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.200 like what's going on? Like why would he do that? 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.200 Like why would he say that? And that's like was 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.160 my first introduction to it. And then when I transitioned 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.080 to like a predominantly white school, I was scared because 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:22.840 I was like, if I'm getting this from my own community, 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:24.440 what am I going to get from this? And I 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.800 didn't have any issues, So that was really shocking to me. Wow, 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.520 that is so deep that you were to see all 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.760 white school basically yeah, and had no issues. That doesn't 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.560 make sense. When I liked black boys, they never really 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.160 liked me back. So I always got that, you know, 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:44.880 I don't date I don't date um dark skinned girls. 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:46.760 And I was just like, okay, then I would just 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.560 forget you guys. Then I'll just date something else. And 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.160 then I kind of got that backlash for that, you know, 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:55.120 why would you do that? I'm like, you guys don't 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.040 even like us anyway, so what's the point the hurt? 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.280 Of course, and we have those little bit of lanes. 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.679 You're like, okay, like I'm not good enough, you know, 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.720 I'm dating black guys again, and now I'm getting that 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.280 like appreciation that I've always wanted. I don't I don't know, 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:14.000 like what changed in their minds or hopefully because being 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.439 more confident or me That's what I was going to 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.480 say that too. That's probably yeah, that you're more confident 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:27.600 you know and who you are, because confidence is very attractive. Yeah, 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.120 I've heard a lot of people say, I've actually read 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.160 about it too, that the best way to control a 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.520 group of people were to really just get control of them, 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.120 is to pit them against themselves. And that's exactly what 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.360 colorisms exactly. And that's that so it was all by 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:45.720 design exactly. Well, there's a fascinating documentary on colorism that 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:50.640 we wanted to tell you about. Skin color amongst the 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.280 black community is a huge issue. I used to wish 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.840 that I can't wake up one day lighter or wash 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:01.680 my face and think that it will change. Argie lighter. 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:04.319 I thought it was dirt. You're not trying to clean 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:08.880 it off, but it wouldn't come off. Certain people who 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.160 may have lighter skin try to boost their self esteven 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.640 to boost their you know, they're self worth up by 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.800 putting others down because they know that darker skin, I 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:20.120 guess isn't considered beautiful, and so they can that kind 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:22.280 of puts them up on that pedal stool like saying, hey, 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:24.840 I'm I'm more beautiful than you because my skin is fair. 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.880 Experts conducted an experiment to touch young children's attitude toward 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:34.400 different skin colors. The results were just heartbreaking. Shoot the 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:39.160 smart child, and why is she the smart child? Because 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:48.880 she is? Why okay, show me the dumb child, and 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:54.320 why is she the dumb child? She sat, well, show 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:58.200 me the ugly child, and why is she the ugly child? 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:02.079 Because she'd been like, show me the good looking child, 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.440 and why see the good looking child because she life skinning. 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.959 A friend of mine had recently had a baby, and 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:21.200 I was very happy for her, and so you know, 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.160 it was my first time seeing a baby and the 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:30.360 baby was beautiful. She said, girl, I'm so glad. She 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:36.560 didn't come out dark. And when she said it, it 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.360 felt like a dagger, like someone took a dagger and 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.480 stuck it in my heart because I was used to 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:50.559 expecting hearing things like that from other races, but this 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.400 was someone that I considered to be my sister as 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:58.280 a younger person coming up. White people really made me 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:03.839 appreciate my skin color. Black people made me question it exactly. 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.120 Now that's deep because Madison, you said the same thing. 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:12.600 The hatred of our skin tone is really just the 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:16.600 overall picture of the hatred that we have for ourselves. 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.000 And it's just so deep rooted, you know what I mean, 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:24.000 It's just so really deep rooted. Is a real testament 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:28.160 to how we feel about ourselves. We all have issues 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.520 with color, no matter whatside you on, and that's what's 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:36.160 so interesting. It even for you know, light skinned women, 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.839 you know, I know, just on covers of magazine is 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.400 always like, no, have your hair super straight? You know, no, 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.119 you don't cut your hair, you know, And even nowadays 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.640 that happens online like people saying, oh you light, you 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.560 think you're cute, you think you're And back in the day, 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:53.840 light skinned girls would get ben light if you were 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:57.360 light skinned, long hair. We call it getting a bank. 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:00.440 You would get banked for no reason, right, and just 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:04.360 think about how superficial that is. Okay, so let's talk 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.240 about this, right. So if we're in a room full 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.880 of people that are not black, right, they're going to 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.240 automatically put me in a dark skinned category, and they're 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.360 gonna put you in a light skin fair category. You 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:21.839 consider me fair? Yes, And here this is now we're 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:26.160 going to talk about gammies issues because but it's in comparison, 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.160 it's right. But my thing is is that it won't 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:34.400 be how you see yourself. It's gonna be how everybody 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:38.079 else sees you, right, And I hate to be the 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:44.440 very bad news gammy. This is what I had to 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.320 deal with when I was throwing what. I feel like 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.680 she had a lot of shame on having different cultures 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:57.000 and our blood because my grandparents, with West Indian, we 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.839 really didn't have an issue with color per se, more 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:04.000 so with class. Well, there was a little bit of 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.640 it with my grandmother, right, Yeah, she was um. They 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.280 were from Barbados and she definitely did not like dark 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:15.000 skinned people. I remember when I was really little, we 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:19.720 had neighbors who were very, very dark, and she didn't 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.200 want us to play with them, right right. Yeah. So 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.960 Chica A Cooro is a Harvard and Stanford graduate who 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.920 was studied and experienced colorism, and she did a very 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:35.960 personal ted talk that millions of people watched. Growing up, 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.600 I definitely felt the effects of colorism. Guys didn't find 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:44.000 me pretty. It really made me feel like I wasn't 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:48.640 good enough, like I wasn't valuable enough. The situation came 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.960 to a head when Chica discovered an offensive casting notice 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.760 for the movie Straight out of Compton that ranked women 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:58.600 based on their skin color. I was outraged. I was livid. 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:03.360 I felt betrayed. Turning her outrage into action, Chica spoke 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.320 out about the dangers of colorism until subdecide for those 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:14.040 with more favorable features light skin, light eyes, long, soft, 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:18.480 real hair. Chica, can you explain exactly what you saw 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.360 on the Straight out of Compton casting call? Yeah? It 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:26.200 was so mind blowing. So it split out the girls 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.120 from A through DEP so different categories. So there was 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.600 the A girls those are described as the hottest of 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:36.920 hot models, you know, long hair, beautiful, and went to 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.160 the BE girls those were African Americans. You had to 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.840 have real hair. It had to be your real long hair, 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.800 light eyes, light skin. They said Beyonce of the prototype, 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:48.720 which blew my mind that Beyonce was not an a girl. 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:53.480 She's a big girl. Then there were for the Sea girls, 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:55.960 it said you could wear weaves no darker than a 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.040 medium skin tone. And then the D girls. Those were 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.000 all Afrin America. Again, out of shape, poor and darker 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:06.360 skin tone. Yeah, welcome to how they would. I'm just 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:13.440 so surprised that someone wrote that out on an actual Yeah. 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:17.120 I'm just seeing that degradation and kind of thinking, oh, okay, 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.520 I guess I'm in the D category. But this is 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.880 like the secret, the thing we don't want to admit 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:28.680 that even within us there's division because we don't want 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.000 to talk about it stays undercover. We're not supposed to 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:36.640 bring it up. The history goes all the way back. 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:38.880 Everyone gets annoyed when it say it begins in slavery, 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.920 but that's where everything begin. That's our history here in 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.880 the US. That's where it begins. It's unfortunate because it 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.920 started with the mass rate of slave masters with the 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.400 female slaves, and so now there's this cohord of mixed 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:55.720 race children who have the more lighter skins, right hair, 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.160 lighter eyes, slimmer noses, like all the different you know, 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.240 typic character of sticks. And they're treated better, right, they're 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.280 given prefrontal treatment, get to work in the house instead 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.320 of out in the field. And that has all continued 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:14.560 even after slavery and just that classifications, separations, and that 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:19.440 is how opportunities or acceptance into different social clubs or 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:23.400 sorties or fraternities was based on these different features. Like 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.439 you know, we talked about the different tests that you 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.160 still see the aftermaths of it. Back then it was blatant. 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.600 There was the brown paper bag test. You know, if 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.400 you're darker than brown paper bag on the club one, 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.679 on the on the sorty paper bag is you know, 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.120 craol a brown and so if you're darker than that, 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.280 you know, there was a pencil test. They run a 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.880 pencil through your hair. It can't get stuck. I never 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.800 heard the pencils pencil test would have failed. Then I 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.600 would have failed that. That was one of the issues 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.280 for me growing up with my hair. That was just 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.520 a struggle. It was like it was always a struggle. 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.159 I was always looking even like my cousin, like my 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:01.919 cousins and my friends, and I alwas look at her 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.360 hair and be like, oh my god, like like if 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:06.399 someone like if I would just be so much prettier, 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:08.720 if my hair wasn't so kinky, or you know what 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:10.400 I mean, if I had longer hair, and it would 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:14.600 always just be such a issue. It all ties in together, 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:20.880 the hair sleeping, all that the approximation to white is 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:26.240 what is valued around the world. I've heard that you 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:30.119 feel a certain way about the different skin tony emojis. Yeah, 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.680 you know. At first I would always feel away when 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.720 I would choose the last emoji right, and then I 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.280 think it's great that there's all these different emojis. It 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.280 was a moment for me to reflect on, well, why 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.320 do I feel away? That he acknowled like, who's to 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:50.920 say that the very brown emoji is worse than like 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:53.040 so like, wait a minute, like why am I feeling 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.000 this way? When you have to really hune in on 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.160 how you want to look to the outward world, then 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.720 that's when you really have a chance to acknowledge how 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:05.320 you really feel about yourself. So Stacy started bleaching her 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:09.160 skin when she was just eight years old and continued 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.480 until she was twenty five. This is what Stacy looked 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:17.600 like when she was bleaching, and this is Stacy today. Yeah, 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.960 a completely different person. That's so crazy because I've never 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:25.840 really thought that it works. It was a common practice, huh, 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.320 especially in an island household. In my background. I'm Haitian, 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.280 So you find out a lot and people from the 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.000 islands that they bleach, and they see it as you're 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.760 more valuable if you're lighter. You know you will succeed more. 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.439 If you're a different skin tone, you will make it 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:44.920 more in life if you are not dark. The skin 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:51.720 bleaching business is billion dollar business. Skin Bleaching dates back centuries. 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.440 In ancient times, lighter skin was a sign of privilege, 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.879 in prestige the upper class who worked indoors, out of 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:03.600 the sun. Many dark skinned people used bleaching powders, paints, 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:09.720 or ointments an attempt to seem wealthier or aristocratic. I 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:13.560 can remember being in the bathtub asking my mom to 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:17.640 put bleach in the water so that my skin would 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:22.560 be lighter, and so that I could escape the feelings 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:26.360 that I had about not being as beautiful, as acceptable, 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:31.720 as lovable. Go to South Africa today and you will 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:36.879 see billboards promoting skin bleaching cream, even in the face 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:42.320 of knowing that it causes cancer. Wow, what caused you 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.399 to even think that? Because at a young age of eight, Like, 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.399 how did you think that you were not good enough? Then? 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:52.200 Because I've always been bullied. You know, it's either I'm 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:56.199 this big, dark, dirty girl, or in school, no one 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.520 wants to work with me because oh she's black, she 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:02.600 might have an adultude, or she's unwilling to cooperate. So 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.119 I decided to bleach. Do you feel like people treated 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.480 you differently when you were bleaching? Yes, the boys who 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:11.679 were picking on me saying I was dirty, I'm black, 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:15.679 are disgusted. I have an attitude problem. They found beauty 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.800 and this girl. Once I bleached, you know, I was 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:22.600 more polite. They see me as or you know, instead 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.280 of me being angry, I'm just passionate. That's why I'm 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:31.280 so outspoken, and I you know, I cashing it. I'm 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:33.679 not angry. You know, I don't have an attitude problem. 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.760 I just I can talk all day, you know. So yes, 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:40.880 people definitely viewed me like I'm more worthy in a way. 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:45.120 That and that's an issue with darker skins. We got 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:55.000 an attitude got an attitude, but every black woman, I know. 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:00.000 But how did your family feel when you were bleached? 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.560 And how did they feel when you stopped? They were devastated, 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:06.480 like I just committed suicide or something. You know. Up 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:08.600 until the point when I was engaged getting married, I 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.040 was hearing maybe you should start bleaching again because your 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:13.119 wedding is coming up and you want to be pretty 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:16.119 for your wedding day. And I'm like, oh my gosh, 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:18.919 like why are you killing me? Did the bleaching cause 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.720 any other medical issues? I broke out a lot, I 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:26.520 was dealt with acne, dark marks, high pigmentation, but once 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:29.480 I stopped, my skin became clear. And so what made 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:35.000 you decide to stop? My husband? Yeah, wow. When I 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:38.200 was engaged, I decided to show him my photo album 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:41.440 when I was a younger girl, a baby, and he said, wow, 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.600 you're beautiful. You're so gorgeous. Deep down in my heart, 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:47.960 I was so set. I'm like, oh, how can you 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:51.600 call that girl in a picture beautiful? You know? And 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:54.119 he didn't tell me to stop, but because he found 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:57.439 beauty in that girl, in my mind, I'm like, you know, 0:22:57.520 --> 0:22:59.680 I have to stop. There's no way for me to 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:02.560 treat eat myself. That's the way if my husband loved me, 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:05.920 you know, keep on beauty and this little chocolate muffing, 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:09.720 you know, like I have to stop. Let's get him around. 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:15.960 So when he left, I went to the bathroom and 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:19.600 I cried, and I believe that's when my deliverance happened. 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:22.360 You know, I went to church all my life, but 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:26.080 my deliverance didn't happen at church. It happened in the bathroom, 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:28.320 my one on one I cried. I'm like, God, like, 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:31.000 how can I be in church? And I'm so insecure 0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:33.560 and I have such a bad low sulf esteem. I 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:36.639 feel so depressed all the time. But that day is 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:41.480 when God literally removed that hurt inside of me. So 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:47.159 that is amazing. I really appreciate you guys coming to 0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:49.480 the table to talk about this. To me, this is 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:53.440 just the beginning. This is just the beginning, because there's 0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:57.119 so much to unravel, so much to talk about, so 0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:00.920 much towards healing that you know, you almost don't know 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:04.359 where to begin and where to start, but this is 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:09.359 the starting point exactly. Thank you, ladies, Thank you. This 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:14.000 is great, awesome is great. Hey r t T family, 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:16.960 join our Red Table Talk group. On Facebook to become 0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:20.840 part of the conversation, and be sure to follow the 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:25.000 show page to catch up on all our episodes. So 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:27.600 my fove when this came up to it, Yeah, you 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:30.320 can talk it. Take the day off. It's fine. Yes, 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:38.879 you did a great, great fee. I don't know, I 0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:44.639 don't see. How did dad table talk that? That's too 0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:49.840 much worse. To join the red table Talk family and 0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:52.879