WEBVTT - Report from Iron Mountain 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:05.960 You're listening to Hoax, a production of iHeart Podcasts. 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:06.600 Folks. 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:16.280 It's a huge when us to see you there last. 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:24.080 Welcome to Hoax, a podcast about the lies we wish were. 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.639 True and truths that sound like lies. I'm the ghost 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:29.440 of Danish Wortz and I'm the evil twin of Lizzie Logan. 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:36.120 Welcome to the show, Dana, Oh boy, today's topic. Let 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:37.400 me just say you did. 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:38.440 Say you are a little stressed. 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:42.800 I'm a little bit stressed because I thought that it 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:46.160 was one thing when I started looking into it, and 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.920 then by the time I realized that it was also 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:55.280 some other things. It was too close to when we're 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:59.880 recording to pick a different topic. Great, And I also 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.480 I just wanted to say here at the top of 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:06.120 the episode that this episode of Hoax, like all episodes 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:10.360 of Hoax, is based on our research from multiple sources. 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.880 But I am drawing a lot of what I know 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.240 from Phil tin Lines book Ghosts of Iron Mountain. So 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:21.280 I just wanted to give him a shout out right 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.880 up top. Thank you, Phil, Thank you. If this episode 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.880 sparks your interest, I would go ahead and purchase or 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:32.000 get from your library a copy of Phil tin lines book. So, 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:32.600 thank you, Phil. 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:33.240 Great. 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:39.319 So this is about the hoax document report from Iron Mountain. 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:41.119 I'm assuming you don't know what that. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.880 Is to me, Iron Mountain. I'm like, that sounds like 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.160 a Mario Kart level. It means nothing to me. 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:51.280 Okay, great, Dana, cast your mind back. We're going back 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:55.440 in time to the Cold War. Yeah, all right. In 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:59.560 his outgoing address to the Nation, President Dwight Eisenhower coins 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.840 the frase military industrial complex. 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:04.360 He was kind of right about that one. 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.840 He was so right on the money about that one. 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:12.640 It is a time of heightened militarization. Yeah, the space 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:17.600 race is on. The nature of power has changed thanks 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.480 to the atom bomb. It used to be that the 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:24.800 masses fought the wars with cheap available weapons. So it 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.440 was that whoever had the most people and the most 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:33.919 guns won the wars, and the wars were won by 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:38.840 the people. And you know, it was sort of democratized 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:43.600 that way. And now the power to kill arrests in 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:47.360 the hands of a few. You can destroy a whole city, 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:51.840 like one guy can choose to do that from miles 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.359 and miles away, and you don't even have to look 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:57.440 a man in the eye to kill him and the 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.680 weapons makers seemed to be dictating military strategy. 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:04.239 And you're banning a picture. This is very vivid. 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:08.399 Indeed, can we trust the government to do the right thing? 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.399 Can we even trust what they are saying? The Bay 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.040 of Pigs, the Cuban missile crisis, the Gulf of Tonkin. 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.520 It sounds like we're in a serious situation. Everyone is 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.040 looking over their shoulder exactly. 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.720 There is an atmosphere of paranoia throughout the nation. People 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:29.040 see communism everywhere. McCarthyism was not so long ago. The FBI, NSA, 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:33.040 and CIA are all newly created within living memory. Has 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.839 the CIA been covertly trying to assassinate Castro and Jay Goovara? Yes, 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.560 not even that covertly. They're just trying to kill them. 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.560 There's this thing called the UN that is also created 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.600 within living memory. That's like a global government above all 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.400 the governments. And we know now that they're not super 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.440 effective at being a global government, but back then we 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:56.640 thought they might be. It's kind of nice, It's it's 0:03:56.680 --> 0:04:00.680 not the worst idea. In nineteen sixty three and Kennedy 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.840 is shot by some fucking guy. 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.640 And is the government keeping things from. 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.760 Us about that? So There's two basic theories about this. 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:15.680 Either the country is totally unstable and like some random 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.440 guy can murder the head of state, or there's something 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:23.599 they're not telling us. Nineteen sixty seven, LBJ is president. 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:27.600 The war in Vietnam escalates Agent Orange. They say, we're 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.279 not using napalm on kids, but we totally are. There's 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.200 something called the missile gap, which is what they're saying 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.520 is that the Soviets have way more missiles than us. 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:38.920 So that's why we got a ramp up military spending 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:39.919 so we can get more missiles. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.080 I bet military companies love that. 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.000 They love that. Also, the missile gap is fake. They 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.760 don't have more wos hoax within a hoaxsting hoax, and 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.800 that creates something called the credibility gap, which is a 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.160 thing that's happening more and more, which is people just 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.640 don't believe what the government is saying. You, Dana, Yes, 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.400 resident of nineteen sixty seven in New. 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:00.880 York, Okay. 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.039 Head out to your local newstand to pick up a 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:04.600 copy of Esquire magazine. 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:05.240 Sounds good. 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:09.360 It's the hottest magazine in town. They're doing like real journalism. 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.120 This is not just some magazine you leave through this 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.800 is like hard hitting stuff. 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:16.560 And short stories, good fiction and esquire. 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.800 Oh yes, and you find that it has a twenty 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:23.799 thousand word excerpt of a twenty eight thousand word book. 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.400 So short book, most of a book? Yeah, really a 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:28.400 short story. 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:33.760 Called Report from Iron Mountain on the Possibility and Desirability 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:34.279 of Peace. 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:35.240 Hmmm. 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:39.200 And it has a little preface. This report is twenty 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.599 eight thousand words in length and so depressing that you 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:46.680 may not be able to take it. But if you persist, 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:51.520 Merry Christmas anyway, and on Earth war ill will toward men. 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:57.920 Whoa more magazine stories. I feel like the magazine crisis 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.760 wouldn't be happening right now more stories started with disclaimers 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.520 like that. I know, because I would want to read 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:05.880 these twenty thousand words. 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:07.359 Immediately, immediately. 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.039 So what the hell is this? Yeah? 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:17.000 So the introduction is by a writer named Leonard Lewin, 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.800 who explains that he was approached by a friend. He 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.279 won't say who, but this friend is very high up 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:28.240 in the government, and his friend, said Leonard. Some years ago, 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.800 during the Kennedy days, JFK wanted to figure out what 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:36.320 would happen if worldwide peace broke out, because you know, 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.520 we've been preparing for the possibility of war, but we 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.000 are unprepared for the possibility of peace. 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:44.400 That also sort of sounds like a thing like a 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.960 freshman would say when they're really high in a dorm room. 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.040 We're preparing for war, but are we even preparing for peace? 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:59.640 That is so exactly the mood of the nation, Like yes, 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.960 but also that is the entire country right now, because 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:08.159 this is the thing like think tanks are all the rage, 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:12.240 Like think tanks still exist, but they are so all 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.280 the rage during the Cold War because people are trying 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.360 to figure out what happens in a nuclear war and 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.520 there's never been a nuclear war, so they're spending all 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.080 this time, energy and money just being like, I don't know, 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:31.520 game plan it question mark, question mark, do a war game? 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:37.480 Come up with the primitive computer simulation, build a shelter 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:42.280 question mark? Like there, it's the entire country is like 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:45.880 what if this happens? 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.680 They're just making things up and coming up with ideas. 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.360 They're just making things up. So it's totally kind of 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:56.680 plausible that JFK would have been like, I don't know, uh, 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:58.640 what if there's peace, what if there's peace, What if 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:02.480 there's peace. So he commissions a highly secretive, select group 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:06.120 of people to go to an underground bunker okay called 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:10.480 Iron Mountain and work out what would happen if war stopped. 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.000 And they wrote up a report that was so incendiary 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.200 that the administration buried it. 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.160 That bad things happened at four stopped. 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:27.080 So controversial, Yes, bad things, I say, I'm interested say more. 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.040 But now this friend wants Leonard to tell the people, 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.079 so he's leaking it. So this is the report from 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:34.600 Iron Mountain, Okay. 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:38.199 So that's the preface. And this report published in Esquire 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:40.640 magazine is that buried report. 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:44.719 Is this top from the JFK days, And inside the 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:50.280 report are some truly chilling ideas. This think tank says 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:56.840 that war is the fundamental idea underpinning all of society. Okay, 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:03.480 that if war stopped, the American economy would collapse. Bombs 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.120 are the perfect product. They cost a lot to make 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:07.120 and you can only use them once. 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:08.480 Yeah. 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:13.200 Sure, if we stopped even having the possibility of war, 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:17.760 American society would collapse. Maybe all of society would collapse. 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.319 We would not have any more borders and therefore no 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.160 more countries. There would be no allegiance to your country 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.480 and no allegiance to its values. If you don't belong 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:26.880 to anything, what are you a part of? 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.880 Sounds like John Lennon was on to something. Imagine. 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.160 I have a note here in my outline the song 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:35.040 you imagine, the song imagine nothing to kill or die for? 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:35.880 I wonder if you can. 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:37.079 It's easy if you try. 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:43.520 They basically they've been in this bunker just imagining the imagine. 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:45.839 But what would this be like they've been imagining. 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.520 Yeah, if we don't have any countries, are we essentially 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.720 one super country of planet Earth? And then if one 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.040 person rules it? Is that just is there essentially no freedom? 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.679 Like is there just one guy ruling the whole earth? 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:02.480 Like whoever is the most powerful man on Earth? Does 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:03.439 he rule the whole Earth? 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:05.920 Yeah? Because it's like what sort of system would there 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.360 be where there's no fighting? Where it's like even if 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:10.480 we were one because we're one country now and there's 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:12.080 plenty of fighting in America. 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:16.360 Sure, but it's if there's no fighting, I mean, our 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.480 our weapons sort of the ultimate checks and balances on 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:26.520 no one country becoming too powerful? Like what what would 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.559 happen if all the countries stop fighting each other? They 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.640 point out that a lot of like scientific advancements have 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.880 been made because of the military. That is true, that 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:40.480 would stop, And the report says, you know a lot 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.360 of sort of like pro peace people are like, well, okay, yes, 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.439 we would stop spending all this money on bombs and stuff, 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.760 But wouldn't it be better to spend all that money 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.600 on schools and hospitals. And they basically say, like that 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:57.120 wouldn't work economically, like it would sort of stagnate. We 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.679 would end up we would all just end up kind 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.440 of broke, like the economy would not function that way. 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:06.000 Okay, they were right, this is chilling. 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.960 And also we would end up with overpopulation because war 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:15.240 keeps the population under control. Bleak, and then the report 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.800 goes on to suggest that if worldwide peace did break out. 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.079 It's funny to think about peace breaking out. 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:29.880 We could potentially replace war with some other stuff. Yes, 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.720 so we could fight aliens. 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:39.360 What about like the more Olympics, more more physical feats 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:40.720 of competition. 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.600 They literally have, Like we could do blood games, like 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:49.960 we could do like war games. Basically, we could have 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.280 a pollution crisis, which we probably are. 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:53.760 Which we have to. 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:57.680 Yeah, we could explore space like we could sort of 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:02.719 just you know, turn it into space. We could reintroduce 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:07.400 slavery as a way to sort of keep society in check. 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:11.400 Keep team spirit going. Yeah, we could have a class 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:13.160 war that would probably happen. 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.240 Or we could just sort of keep inventing crises, like 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.360 we could have an earthquake every couple of years, Like 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:23.360 we could you know, have a have a bomb go 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.360 off of it. Like we could just keep having crises 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:30.400 that kept the population under control, kept people in a 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.920 state of fear. There needs to be some sort of 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.160 we can't just live in harmony forever. We would have 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.359 to invent some sort of emergency. 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.920 So the conclusion of this report is that a freshman 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.640 in college being like, why don't we all just stop fighting? 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.800 That what if we all just decided at once no 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.400 more war? That that would cause the collapse of society 0:12:54.960 --> 0:13:00.600 and we would need to invent other activities for spirit 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.160 just to keep ourselves from eating ourselves alive. 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.600 I guess yeah, basically so that we don't evolve into 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:08.520 like cannibalism. 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:09.679 I guess yeah. 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.400 So before we get to what happened next in the story, Dana, 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:13.839 what do you think of these ideas? 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.160 I mean, look, when you say, like this is a 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.559 think tank. I can see how a group of people 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:25.120 getting together and like thinking these ideas. I can see 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.600 how it's like plausible. Where yes, the military industrial complex 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.960 does like keep the economy going, and thinking about how 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:34.200 much money goes to war. It is depressing to think, like, oh, 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.719 our economy or the stock market would probably collapse if 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:42.280 war stopped. But I think I'm skeptical. I think even 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:46.880 without war, like nationalism would still exist, and like global 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:49.440 warming is still a problem that we could deal with, 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.200 and like Silicon Valley and technology is sort of its 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.400 own arms race, like people are trying to get richer, 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.480 Like I think there are other systems in place for 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:03.480 human ambition that aren't war. So it feels like an 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:09.000 interesting thought experiment, but it doesn't like ring true to me. Sure, well, 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:10.400 this is also a show called hoax. 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.680 Yeah, I mean you're right. Yeah, do you think it's 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.400 likely that JFK would have commissioned such a study, that 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.520 such a study would have then been written, and that 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:22.800 he then would have suppressed it. 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.480 I mean, look, here's the thing. I know this shows 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:27.000 a hoax. So I know I'm supposed to be all 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.120 smart and be like no, this is so fake, Esquire magazine. 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.560 They got us all. But like, knowing the shady things 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:35.920 that the government was up to during this period, this 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.680 does seem very plausible. Sure, I like I do. It 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.680 does seem plausible. I think, like the best hoax is 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.000 a hoax that you not want to believe, but like 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.800 could believe. And if you told me genuinely that the 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.920 government had, you know, a group of economists together to 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:53.800 figure this out, and this was the report they came 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:55.800 up with, I'd be like, well, that's fucked up, but 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:58.400 that that's things were happening in the fifties. 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:04.320 Sure, totally. I mean it's not the most. 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.040 Out there idea. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:10.040 I do think that like in groups and out groups 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:15.040 are sort of fundamental to human nature, Like true true equality. 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.600 Absolutely everyone is absolutely equal is. 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.440 Like not, no, they're cool kids in kindergarten. 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:27.840 Yeah, Like that's not how human civilization arose, and like 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.240 we're always going to have laws and like we're always 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:36.640 going to have some sort of tears in society. I 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:38.280 don't know that I would go so far as to 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:43.280 say that like war is the natural. Yeah, Dana's horizon, 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.120 she agrees with me, just like that. It's like the 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.720 natural state of human nature. 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:52.600 And so yeah, so I'm like, yeah, I'd buy like 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.040 some of these ideas. 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:58.640 This is also one of those things where it's like 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:02.320 this is also nothing knew, Like well, I also world 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.960 War two did end the depression, but also like, yeah, 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.080 this is the idea behind the movie The Purge, Like 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.240 you know what I mean, Like, this is nothing. This 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.680 is nothing like the idea that the government would have 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:16.240 come to this conclusion and then be. 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:17.080 Like what the fuck? 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.400 People would freak out if they knew this. 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.760 I'm like, I would they Like I don't know, Like 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.000 would they? Though, Well, here's what I want to clarify. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.720 I don't think the conclusions as you described them to 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:31.960 me and this report sound accurate. I'm like, well, that 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.880 sounds a little far fetched, But to me, it does 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.560 sound plausible that the government would get a bunch of 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:43.200 economic wonks together and they could come up with something wrong. Sure, 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.920 government policy. You know, if you told me that people 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.520 in the fifties came up with a wacky idea that 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.560 turned out not to be true, that is very plausible. Sure, 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.480 So let's go back to the tail, shall we the 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:00.360 detail please? 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.560 So there's sort of three parts to what has now 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:09.240 been revealed. Number one, that top secret officials in the 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:15.560 government are having secret meetings. Number two the findings in 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.760 the report, and number three the burial of the report. 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.159 Yes, the suppressing keeping it from the people. 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.320 So these are three slightly they're interconnected, but these are 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:28.480 three slightly different ideas that people could react to. So 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.200 you might take objection just to the fact that people 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.639 are having secret meetings. You might be a person who's 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.200 offended mostly that by the idea that the government is 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.840 suppressing reports, or you might be a person who is 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.560 mostly reacting to the ideas in the report. 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:45.160 Yeah, so it's like government having secret meetings. Get over 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.240 at babies. That's that's happening. And I'll just say, get 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.679 over at babies. Sure, as Danish worts the conclusions of 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.879 this report, which are pretty whatever, but then the suppression 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:56.919 that is very scary. 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.359 Yeah, I'm just pointing those out because throughout this people 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.000 are going to have different reactions to different parts of that, 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.040 and it's all going to be mixed together. But I'm 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.199 just saying, like when people talk about censorship, they're not 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.480 talking about like, what does censorship have to do with 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:11.760 worldwide peace? It doesn't has to do with bearing of 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.320 the reports, so like, these are the things that are happening. 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:15.120 Got it. 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:18.959 So shortly after the Esquire piece comes out the book, 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:20.359 the Report from. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:21.200 Twenty eight thousand words. 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:23.680 Yes, the twenty eight thousand word book is published by 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:27.160 dial Press, and it's a big, big hit. It is 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.440 flying off the shelves. Teachers are assigning it to their students. 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.880 Everybody wants to read it. Big ideas, big ideas. It's 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:36.760 the freakonomics of its day. Is totally the freakonomics of 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:40.800 its day. Every government agency in the country is like, no, 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:46.720 it wasn't us. The White House looks into it. Walt Rostau, 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:49.520 the NSA advisor to LBJ, makes a bunch of calls 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:54.359 because he's like, I know this isn't real. I know 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.439 this isn't real, but like I you know, like I 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.480 technically wasn't there when Kennedy was in office, so like 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:03.880 I mean, technically I have to check. 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:05.480 He has to do his due diligence. 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:10.760 So it takes him five days to confirm because Lbj's like, 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:14.600 we didn't fucking do this right, but no, it's not real. 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:15.240 Yeah. 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.600 He makes all these calls and everybody he gets in 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.520 contact with is like, no, it's not real. 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.679 That is so funny to imagine the White House having 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.200 this report and being like, we know it's not real, 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:26.960 but we have to make sure. 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:30.320 We have to make sure. So he calls everybody he 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:32.480 can think of because the press wants to know, and 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:38.000 he can't just be like no, because I don't think so. Yeah, 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.320 he has to be like, no, I checked, and it's 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:45.679 not real. Everyone's reaction to the ideas it's very Doctor 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.679 Strangelove had come out three years prior. Oh, and it 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.960 I think strikes a very similar tone of like what 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.600 if you took the illogic of the Cold War to 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:01.800 an extreme and in a sort of arsical way. So people, 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.200 this is a this is a this is a conversation 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:06.480 that the country is ready to have. 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.159 Well, here's the big problem. Also, if the White House 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.840 is like, hey, this wasn't us White House lying to you, 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:14.560 that's the whole point of the report. It's like, of 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:18.040 course you would lie. This report says you're a liar. Sure, well, 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:19.840 no kidding, Lewin. 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.679 When anyone asks dial press, hey you publish this is 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.720 this real or fake? They point to all the footnotes 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.040 in the book and there's a lot of footnotes in 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.760 the book and they all refer to real things, so 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.040 they're like, well, I don't know, check the footnotes. Footnotes 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:40.080 look real, ohotes. Lewin goes on a press tour. He 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:42.160 goes on a book tour, and he's soaking it up, 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.440 and whenever people ask him if it's real, he gives 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:49.280 sort of like koy Kgey answers where he's like, well, 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:53.439 the ideas are real, and the government does have meetings, 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:59.400 so like there's truth in the book. So I don't 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:01.960 know what you think, and it's pretty hard to prove 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:06.520 a negative, and most of the speculation is like okay, 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:11.679 so like this is probably fake, but well, who do 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:15.080 you think wrote it? Because it really this is this 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.920 is how those government types talk like this, he really 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.160 got the voice right, and in like. 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.600 The kind of QAnon like you can't disprove a conspiracy 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:27.760 theory believer. It's kind of that thing where you're like, okay, well, 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:31.080 even if this meeting wasn't true, the ideas that they 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.320 present are true, so it's it's coming out somehow. Yeah. 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:38.280 They're very like, well but maybe part of it was true, 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:40.879 or like this one quote, doesn't that sound like this 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:43.160 one guy who works in this one department. I feel 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.040 like maybe that guy actually said that one time, or 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:48.359 like he really got the voice right. This is totally 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.920 how those think tank guys talk, like if it wasn't 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:52.760 this Lewin, Like what the hell is this? 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:56.919 So people pretty definitively in the culture don't think that 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:57.840 Lewin wrote it. 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.480 I don't know about definitively in the culture. I would 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.320 say in the press and in Washington, Yeah, it is 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:08.639 not being investigated as like, uh oh, we've got a 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.800 leak high up in the government, Like there's no one 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:16.760 looking into this, like it's a violation of the Espionage Act. 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:20.680 Yeah, they know it's not like an actual government documently. 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:25.320 Yeah, yeah, No. Journalists are looking for the leaker and 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:29.679