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Speaker 1: So she's lying.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying she's I'm saying she's.

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Speaker 1: Mistaken, but everybody else is lying.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying that my mom and Tabby Jake's lying about

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Speaker 2: that night.

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Speaker 3: Angela Caneppa. If you listen to it, she hammers and moment,

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Speaker 3: and I think if I'm saying, there's a your if

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Speaker 3: they paid as closest attention to this trial as I have,

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Speaker 3: that's a red flag.

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Speaker 1: What happens to you if you come in here and

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Speaker 1: admit that you and your brother and your father slaughtered

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Speaker 1: perfectly innocent people who lay asleep in their beds.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to hear answer? Well, I feel it

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Speaker 2: should happen to anybody that would do that.

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Speaker 1: I want to know what happens to you if you

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Speaker 1: come in here and admit that.

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Speaker 2: What should happen to anybody is they should have death

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Speaker 2: given to them.

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Speaker 4: This is the pipeson Masaker returned to Pike County season four,

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Speaker 4: episode twenty three, George Wagner's final day on the stand.

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Speaker 4: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie's Studios with

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Speaker 4: Stephanie Leidacer and Jeff Shane. It's important to note that

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Speaker 4: George Wagner Fourth has pleaded not guilty and has maintained

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Speaker 4: he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose

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Speaker 4: trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all

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Speaker 4: charges after answering more than seven hours worth of questions

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Speaker 4: from his own lawyer the day before. George Wagner's surprising

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Speaker 4: testimony continues for a second day. Wagner continued defending himself,

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Speaker 4: denying any involvement in the murders. He insisted he took

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Speaker 4: no part in planning or covering up the brutal murders.

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Speaker 4: But on a second day of testimony, George Wagner faced

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Speaker 4: a far more aggressive line of questioning from prosecutor Auntiekneppa,

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Speaker 4: questioned his credibility, honesty, and the multiple inconsistencies from previous

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Speaker 4: statements George Wagner gave to investigators.

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Speaker 5: George Wagner back on the stand for a second day.

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Speaker 6: He is on trial for murder in the Pie County

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Speaker 6: massacre that happened in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 4: Wearing a light blue collared dress shirt, a dark tie,

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Speaker 4: and black vest, George Wagner the fourth returned to the

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Speaker 4: stand on the forty third day of his trial, defense

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Speaker 4: attorney John Parker started the morning by asking George Wagner

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Speaker 4: about his use of Facebook.

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Speaker 5: Now, did you use Facebook.

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Speaker 2: On and off?

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Speaker 4: Wagner said he occasionally used Facebook to buy and sell

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Speaker 4: items like truck parts on its marketplace app, and to

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Speaker 4: talk to friends, including Frankie Rodin.

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Speaker 7: With respect of Facebook, did you ever know of your

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Speaker 7: mother to.

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Speaker 5: Use your account?

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Speaker 2: Not to my knowledge.

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Speaker 7: Did you ever know whether your mother obtained a password?

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Speaker 2: Not to my knowledge?

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Speaker 4: However, George testified his mother was constantly trying to access

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Speaker 4: the social media passwords.

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Speaker 5: Did you ever have.

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Speaker 7: An issue with your mother trying to access your fault her?

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Speaker 4: Not?

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Speaker 2: Really, I'm not gonna say accessing about constantly looking over

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Speaker 2: my shoulder trying to get the password to it. I

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Speaker 2: changed my password like daily because she would try and

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Speaker 2: figure out what my password was. How do you know

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Speaker 2: that she was always looking over my shoulder when I

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Speaker 2: put my password in?

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Speaker 5: Is that before the murders?

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Speaker 2: Far back as I've had an iPhone.

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Speaker 4: George also said he was aware of the GoFundMe page

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Speaker 4: his brother Jake created, but also that he had nothing

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Speaker 4: to do with it. Defense attorney John Parker then shifted

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Speaker 4: the conversation to George's mindset after the murders and now

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Speaker 4: I viewed the police investigation. After being questioned at the

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Speaker 4: Montana border in twenty seventeen, George Wagner said he didn't

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Speaker 4: know if his shrug was bugged and his phone was tapped,

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Speaker 4: but he said he assumed they were during.

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Speaker 5: That time frame.

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Speaker 7: What was your mindset, so to speak about the investigation

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Speaker 7: and whether your family was guilty or not doing What

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Speaker 7: was your mindset?

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Speaker 5: Though?

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Speaker 2: I believed that they were just trying to frame my

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Speaker 2: mom and my brother and my family for the fact

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Speaker 2: that they didn't have anybody else to look at.

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Speaker 5: Why did you think that?

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Speaker 2: Because I was raised to believe it all law enforcement

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Speaker 2: was crooked, and I thought they just wanted to close

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Speaker 2: the case and didn't care about it being right or wrong.

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Speaker 4: The fear of law enforcement also led George to think

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Speaker 4: his brother Jake's new wife, Elizabeth, was likely an informant.

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Speaker 2: From the way I understood it was that BCI would

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Speaker 2: stoop to any level to get information about my family,

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Speaker 2: and that they would try and send a woman in

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Speaker 2: there to get close to me or my brother and

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Speaker 2: get information.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 7: Does that explain some of the conversations we heard on

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Speaker 7: the recordings between you and your brother about that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because she didn't know my brother at all and

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Speaker 2: married him within like three months, and I just didn't trust,

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Speaker 2: not with everything that our family was being accused of.

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Speaker 4: George also testified he questioned Elizabeth's motives and that he

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Speaker 4: did not trust her.

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Speaker 1: Why not?

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Speaker 2: Multiple different reasons?

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Speaker 5: Take your time and.

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Speaker 2: Reason one. When she first broke up my brother and

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Speaker 2: then got back with him, I just thought it was

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Speaker 2: weird that somebody who met a complete stranger would want

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Speaker 2: to be with somebody who was accused of what we

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Speaker 2: were being accused.

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Speaker 5: Of, all right? Were there other reason?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 2: The second reason was she had come up with a

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Speaker 2: story about her childhood that she and her brothers and

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Speaker 2: her mother was part of some cult for some church

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Speaker 2: in Texas, and I had guessed the church ended up

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Speaker 2: selling kids the sex, slavery or something like that.

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Speaker 5: All right, Was there any other reason?

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Speaker 2: The other one was I came home from work one

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Speaker 2: week and my son said that Bessett told him that

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Speaker 2: you shoot bad people with AR fifteen's.

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Speaker 4: George Wagner said he told his family he didn't want

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Speaker 4: Elizabeth living with them after they returned to Ohio, didn't.

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Speaker 2: Feel my son was safe around her.

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Speaker 5: Did you want to kill her?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 5: What did you want?

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Speaker 2: I just wanted her to move out of the house.

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Speaker 4: Wanting to drive home the point that George Wagner was

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Speaker 4: a loving and caring uncle. Attorney John Parker asked George

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Speaker 4: about his nickname for his niece. George said that when

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Speaker 4: Jake and Hannah's daughter was a baby, he began to

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Speaker 4: playfully call her SuDS.

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Speaker 2: She was playing one day in a bucket full of

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Speaker 2: water that she was sitting in and was fielful of soap, and.

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Speaker 5: So you gave her the nickname sugs.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 4: After Hannah's death, George said he would regularly talk to

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Speaker 4: Jake about his daughter.

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Speaker 5: During those conversations. Did you know that he had killed her?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 5: What was his demeanor when you brought up sucks?

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Speaker 2: Depends on what I was going on, but usually it

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Speaker 2: turned into a fight in an argument about what. Anytime

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Speaker 2: I would save it made a face like Hannah, or

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Speaker 2: it looked like Hannah, or was acting like Hannah, he

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Speaker 2: would throw a fit.

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Speaker 5: You loved your son quite obviously, right, Yes? Did you

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Speaker 5: love Yes? Did you kill these people for her?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 5: Would you ever do.

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Speaker 2: That now.

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Speaker 4: Here's Jeff and Stephanie.

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Speaker 8: Do you think, Steph that this testimony humanizess George Wagner

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Speaker 8: in anyway.

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Speaker 9: I mean, look, even if it does humanize him, both

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Speaker 9: things can be true. I think if we've learned anything

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Speaker 9: just in the process of making this podcast and following

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Speaker 9: it for as long as we have, it's just that

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Speaker 9: certain people can be a lot of things at the

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Speaker 9: same time. So on the one hand, yes, maybe this

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Speaker 9: does make him seem more compassionate, and on the other

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Speaker 9: he's being accused of commiserating to murder of eight people that,

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Speaker 9: according to this compassionate testimony he knew very well.

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Speaker 4: And both things may be true.

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Speaker 8: This is a good example of the defense adding a

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Speaker 8: rational look into George Wagner's thought process. It's very well explained.

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Speaker 8: It sounds logical. I mean, he makes pretty rational points

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Speaker 8: about why Jake's relationship with Elizabeth is odd, and it

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Speaker 8: could raise possible doubts about Elizabeth's judgment, which, as we know,

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Speaker 8: is the prosecution's goal to poke holes in the defense's

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Speaker 8: story because all they have to do is just turn

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Speaker 8: one juror in favor of George.

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Speaker 9: I would imagine too, if in fact, he knew what

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Speaker 9: hot water he and his family were in at that time.

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Speaker 9: The idea of adding a new person just seems nuts.

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Speaker 9: On the one hand, it shows that Jake wanted to

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Speaker 9: marry Elizabeth before they returned to piked In.

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Speaker 4: And on the other.

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Speaker 9: Side of it, why would you add somebody else to

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Speaker 9: the equation that has to keep your story straight? And

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Speaker 9: if George presents himself as empathetic and slightly compassionate or

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Speaker 9: is adding context to the dynamics, one person can decide

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Speaker 9: his fate.

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Speaker 4: Well, he loved his niece, George said he and Jake

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Speaker 4: also fought and disagreed about how to raise their children.

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Speaker 4: Here again, defense attorney John Parker speaking with George Wagner

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Speaker 4: the fourth.

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Speaker 7: Did you and your brother have the same ideas on

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Speaker 7: how to how to raise your respective children?

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Speaker 2: No, not by a long shot.

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Speaker 5: Can you explain.

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Speaker 2: My brother wanted to basically keep chained up in the

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Speaker 2: house for her entire life until she graduated college.

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Speaker 5: What was your idea of how to raise it?

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Speaker 2: My idea of it was, I guess you could say

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Speaker 2: I spoiled him. I didn't ever tell him that whatever

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Speaker 2: he wanted, I got it for him, and I got

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Speaker 2: a lot of hell over.

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Speaker 1: That, and my.

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Speaker 2: Main plan was that eventually when he was older, all

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Speaker 2: kids are going to be kids, regardless of what you

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Speaker 2: say or do, They're going to make their own mistakes.

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Speaker 2: I've made mine, everybody I knows made theirs, and they're

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Speaker 2: going to do it anyway, whether you tell them not

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Speaker 2: to or whether you tell them to do what, they're

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Speaker 2: going to do it. So my way of fixing that

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Speaker 2: was I was just going to end up building like

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Speaker 2: a great big lake one day on whatever piece of

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Speaker 2: property I bought, and have his own cabin on it

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Speaker 2: from time he turned as teenager, so when he was

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Speaker 2: out drinking and party in which he's going to do

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Speaker 2: all kids do it, that he would be there and

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't worry about he running up and down the

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Speaker 2: roads instead of him being running everywhere like I did.

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Speaker 5: Did you discuss this with your brother?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 5: Did you discuss Jake's philosophy on? Yes?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 5: Is that a source of disagreement between.

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Speaker 2: You and you as.

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Speaker 7: Well?

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Speaker 5: All over the objection?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it was a massive disagreement.

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Speaker 4: Despite disagreeing on how to raise their children, both Jake

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Speaker 4: and George agreed on one thing that was at their

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Speaker 4: mother Angela Wagner should have custody of their kids should

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Speaker 4: anything happen to them. George said he remembers signing the

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Speaker 4: backdated custody documents that Angela prepared, claims he did so

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Speaker 4: without looking at them.

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Speaker 2: I came home one day and I was going to

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Speaker 2: my room, change clothes and go back out the door,

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Speaker 2: and my mom said that she was filling one out

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Speaker 2: for my brother and asked if I wanted one that

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Speaker 2: was more legit than the handwritten when I had. And

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Speaker 2: I told her if she wanted that, she had like

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Speaker 2: ten minutes to get it, and I had to get

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Speaker 2: and I signed. My neighbor walked out.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so break that down a little bit, all right.

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Speaker 5: Do you remember when.

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Speaker 2: That was sometime early twenty sixteen?

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Speaker 7: All right?

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Speaker 5: And the document that you signed, had it been completed?

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Speaker 5: Was it blank? What did you know about?

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Speaker 7: It?

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Speaker 2: Was just like a printed out for him.

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Speaker 5: Did you read it? No?

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Speaker 2: I just signed my name to it.

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Speaker 5: And what'd you do after you sign your name?

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Speaker 2: I walked out the front door and left again.

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Speaker 5: And what was your understanding of this document she wanted

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Speaker 5: to you de signed? You were coming at it out

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Speaker 5: and changing.

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Speaker 2: I just assumed she was making another one that was

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Speaker 2: more legitimate looking in my handwritten one.

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Speaker 4: Here's Stephanie and Jeff.

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Speaker 8: So the defense has been trying to show George as

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Speaker 8: a Karen attentive, smart with it person and father. But

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Speaker 8: the whole explanation that he just signed these custody documents

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Speaker 8: on a whim to me undercuts the.

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Speaker 10: Caring and attentive father image.

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Speaker 8: It reinforces the idea that he actually didn't really care,

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Speaker 8: that he would just sign something without thinking about it

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Speaker 8: or putting any thought into it. His defense attorney attempts

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Speaker 8: to explain the decision, but I think the whole thing

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Speaker 8: undercuts what the defense has been trying to do.

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Speaker 9: Which is a completely fair point, I would say. In

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Speaker 9: the totality of what he's been saying in his testimony

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Speaker 9: so far, they're trying to make him stand alone and

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Speaker 9: stand apart from his other family members. It also shows

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Speaker 9: that he was pretty conditioned to do.

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Speaker 4: Whatever his mother said.

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Speaker 9: Kind Of my takeaway from what the story is they're

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Speaker 9: telling is that George kind of got accustomed to dealing

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Speaker 9: with his mother and that his family was always doing

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Speaker 9: some kind of a scam or a con and that

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Speaker 9: he just looked the other ways, or through his hands

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Speaker 9: up and didn't really think much of it.

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Speaker 10: Well, the defense can't have it both ways.

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Speaker 8: They can't say on the one hand that he is

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Speaker 8: a carrying, attendive father who thinks everything through and it's

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Speaker 8: independent of his family, but then also just signs a

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Speaker 8: document because his mom tells him to and he trusts her.

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Speaker 8: Those are conflicting ideas that I think the jury will

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Speaker 8: see throw.

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Speaker 4: Despite testifying the day before that he had wanted to

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Speaker 4: distance himself from his family's criminal activities, George admitted to

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Speaker 4: chopping up cars for insurance money.

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Speaker 5: Did you ever make money other than driving.

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00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,240
Speaker 2: Trucks multiple different ways?

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Speaker 10: Did you ever cut up trucks?

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Speaker 5: Yes, explain it.

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Speaker 2: My grandfather, my mom's father, would have people come by

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Speaker 2: that would have a diesel Dodge truck or a Diesel

294
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Speaker 2: Shavy or whatever contruck really, but they would owe on

295
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Speaker 2: the truck and they would want out from under it.

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Speaker 2: So I'd give him five hundred to one thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: and they'd give me the truck and give me a

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Speaker 2: week to chop with up and sell it. And then

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Speaker 2: they reported stole and turned in on the insurance company.

300
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,560
Speaker 5: And so explain how that works as far as chopping up,

301
00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:07,400
Speaker 5: and so you.

302
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,320
Speaker 2: Just take it apart, piece by piece, and then you

303
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,240
Speaker 2: sell it's part different parts of different people.

304
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,160
Speaker 5: And you did that when you lived on Peterson. Yes,

305
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,080
Speaker 5: do you know approximately how many trucks believe?

306
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:24,680
Speaker 4: Five Later defense tourney John Parker pivoted to address the

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00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:30,920
Speaker 4: damaging BCI recordings. George Wagner tried to counter the prosecution's

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00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,400
Speaker 4: descriptions of some of the most incriminating comments.

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Speaker 7: Thinking back on these recordings that we listened to, do

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00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,720
Speaker 7: you remember saying on the recordings anything about your mother

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00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 7: and whether she should get an attorney or not. Do

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00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 7: you remember any of that?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

314
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 5: What do you remember?

315
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,080
Speaker 2: The conversations I believe you're talking about is that if

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00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,040
Speaker 2: all of us were arrested, that my mother should get

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Speaker 2: the best one.

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Speaker 5: And did you say that?

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00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:57,720
Speaker 2: Yes?

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00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 5: Why did you say that?

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00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,480
Speaker 2: Because my mom's the one that watched the kids five

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00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,360
Speaker 2: days a week while we were gone. Anyway, they were

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00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,040
Speaker 2: used to being with her for five days a week,

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Speaker 2: and I feared it would be easier on my children.

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Speaker 5: What were you thinking, you said?

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Speaker 2: I was just going under what basically I understood from

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00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,960
Speaker 2: the attorneys that if we got arrested, that it could

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00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,680
Speaker 2: take six months, it could take two years to get

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Speaker 2: to a trial and be able to work things out.

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Speaker 7: Do you remember on some of the recordings we listened

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Speaker 7: to your mother saying something about being framed?

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Speaker 5: Yes, what do you recall?

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00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,120
Speaker 2: My mom and brother has said that since the beginning.

334
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Speaker 2: That's why I believe that we were being framed, because

335
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Speaker 2: they said that they were twisting everything that my mom

336
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 2: and brother had on their phones and laptops, and they

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00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,160
Speaker 2: were trying to frame us.

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00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 7: And was that your mindset during these conversations. Yes, after

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Speaker 7: listening to these recordings that we heard in court, how

340
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,880
Speaker 7: do you feel about what Jake was saying and what.

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Speaker 5: You now know he did?

342
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,400
Speaker 2: I now know that he was just flying through his

343
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 2: teeth to me. What about your mother the same thanks,

344
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:06,960
Speaker 2: she's just lying to me from the beginning.

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00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 7: Did you ever tell your mother referencing these reportings, did

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00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,880
Speaker 7: you ever tell your mother you would take the blame

347
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:15,680
Speaker 7: for these murders?

348
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:15,760
Speaker 1: No?

349
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:16,240
Speaker 2: I did not.

350
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,280
Speaker 9: So George has testified that he didn't trust his mother.

351
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 4: We know this.

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Speaker 9: He also didn't trust his brother, and he knew he

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00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 9: was being raised frankly by career criminals and in his opinion,

354
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,120
Speaker 9: his brother was very selfish and manipulative, and at this point,

355
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 9: whether this is before the murders or even after the murders,

356
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,600
Speaker 9: George was supposed to be on the straight and narrow.

357
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Speaker 8: George likes to claim that he knew the whole time

358
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Speaker 8: his family were liars and criminals and did not trust them. Yet,

359
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,080
Speaker 8: according to his narrative, after the murders, he just chooses

360
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,880
Speaker 8: to believe their story about what happened in and around

361
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,440
Speaker 8: the Roaded massacre. It just doesn't line up about the

362
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,600
Speaker 8: explanation George gave earlier. He knows their liars, yet accept

363
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 8: their statements about the murders. These are the kinds of

364
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,600
Speaker 8: things that the prosecution is definitely noticing, and they're definitely

365
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,639
Speaker 8: going to bring up a cross because they want to

366
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,719
Speaker 8: really highlight them for the jury.

367
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,800
Speaker 4: Attorney John Parker then focused on one of the most

368
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:19,359
Speaker 4: potentially damaging recordings. In it, George Wagner threatened BCI investigator

369
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,520
Speaker 4: Ryan Schiderer. George testified that it was not a real threat,

370
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 4: but a comment made out of frustration and anger.

371
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:33,040
Speaker 7: One of the conversations we listened to in both your

372
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,280
Speaker 7: brother and your mother, and you were kind of in

373
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,879
Speaker 7: the background, your mother said something about their framing us.

374
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,639
Speaker 5: You remember that, yeah, and that she would take the

375
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,400
Speaker 5: death company. Yes, you remember that at that time.

376
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 7: Did you know your mom and brother were involved in

377
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 7: these murders or committed the murders. No, I think it

378
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,120
Speaker 7: was In that same conversation, Jake says he will get

379
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:56,200
Speaker 7: out one way or another.

380
00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:56,879
Speaker 5: Do you remember that.

381
00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,359
Speaker 7: Yeah, at that time did you know he had killed

382
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:00,879
Speaker 7: these people?

383
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 1: No?

384
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 2: I was on the assumption that he was referring to

385
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,080
Speaker 2: if he got framed and was wrongfully convicted.

386
00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 7: And then your voice is in the background and you say,

387
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:15,840
Speaker 7: ain't gonna have the electric.

388
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:16,919
Speaker 5: Chair or words to that.

389
00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:18,400
Speaker 2: Yes you remember that.

390
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,600
Speaker 5: Yes, what did you mean by that?

391
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 2: I just get irritated when people were messing with my

392
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,000
Speaker 2: family and stuff, especially when I've been out for five

393
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,280
Speaker 2: days with no sleep and a massive amounts of caffeine,

394
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,040
Speaker 2: and it makes you irritable.

395
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:38,920
Speaker 7: Did you know at that point that your mom and

396
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,520
Speaker 7: brother were actually guilty of anything?

397
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 11: No?

398
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,840
Speaker 5: Are you guilty of any of these events?

399
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:44,120
Speaker 12: No?

400
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,639
Speaker 7: On that same recording or conversation, remember hearing your voice say.

401
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:49,960
Speaker 1: I want to kill Ryan.

402
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:51,440
Speaker 2: Yes, I said that.

403
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,920
Speaker 5: What did What did you mean by that explain context.

404
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 2: It was more blind, like when you're angry at somebody

405
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,240
Speaker 2: you say stupid stuff like that. Don't mean that you

406
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 2: mean it. I think everybody said that about somebody at

407
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:02,600
Speaker 2: one point or another.

408
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 7: There was another comment you made to your brother during

409
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 7: one of these full calls about you telling people the

410
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 7: truth is the reason we're in this mass. You remember that, yes,

411
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:14,119
Speaker 7: can you explain it?

412
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,000
Speaker 2: In the beginning, I believe that the finger was pointed

413
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 2: at my family because my brother pissed off the manlies,

414
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,159
Speaker 2: which he does to almost everybody he's around.

415
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,200
Speaker 4: We're going to take a break. We'll be back in

416
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 4: a moment. Defense attorney John Parker wrapped up his questioning

417
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 4: of George Wagner by again asking him if he had

418
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,400
Speaker 4: any involvement in the murders.

419
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,959
Speaker 5: Did you know your family was going to kill these people? No?

420
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 5: Before it happened to Joe. No, after it happened to

421
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:52,639
Speaker 5: je No.

422
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 7: Did you ever have any conversations with your brother about No.

423
00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 5: Did you ever talk to your mom about it?

424
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:00,080
Speaker 2: No?

425
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 5: You're dead now. If you had known this was going

426
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 5: to happen, what would you do?

427
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,439
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly how, but I would have stopped it.

428
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:09,159
Speaker 2: One way or another.

429
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 5: Did you love him?

430
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 9: Yes?

431
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 5: Did you consider frank you a good friend?

432
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 2: I consented me my best friend.

433
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 7: Looking at Wagner Zhibit fifty three, Dash Law, this is

434
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 7: your wedding photo right.

435
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 2: Yes, you have one arm around, who Tabby?

436
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:25,400
Speaker 5: You have another arm around?

437
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 2: Who haves Frankie?

438
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,400
Speaker 4: Here again? Jeff and Stephanie.

439
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 8: We knew when we saw the photo from George and

440
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 8: Tabitha's wedding a couple of years ago that it was

441
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 8: influential and significant, but singing in court really proves that

442
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,440
Speaker 8: to be true. This was a big moment where both

443
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,360
Speaker 8: of the families got together and it highlights their relationships.

444
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 9: We'll share it on our social media, but it's a

445
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,920
Speaker 9: pretty astounding photograph and it really paints a picture of

446
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 9: how close they were. And everybody in the photograph is

447
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,360
Speaker 9: either dead or accused of their murder.

448
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 5: The statement cross exam.

449
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 4: Here's Law on Crime's investigative reporter and Jeanette Levy.

450
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 11: I was actually part of me felt kind of impressed

451
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,639
Speaker 11: watching him on direct because I felt that he just

452
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 11: seemed calm, and he'd obviously been prepped, but he just

453
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 11: seemed to have answers for everything, and that kind of

454
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 11: made me wonder a little bit, because you can't have

455
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 11: you can't always have answers for everything. But he seemed

456
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 11: to have an answer for everything. Obviously, he's been prepped,

457
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 11: he's had years to think about this. But at the

458
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 11: same time, he seemed to be doing a good job

459
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 11: on the stand during direct.

460
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 5: The prosecution focus did on George Wagen to the force

461
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 5: honesty today on the witness stand.

462
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 4: After hours of questioning by his own attorney, George Wagner

463
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 4: came under intense scrutiny during the prosecution's cross examination. Prosecutor

464
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 4: and Jacineppa immediately zeroed in on George's claim that he

465
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 4: and Frankie Rodin had a close relationship.

466
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and start with Frankie. You consider him

467
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: your best friend? Yes, so in twenty twelve, you have

468
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 1: your arm around Frankie, he's standing next to you at

469
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: your wedding. Yes, And prior to the homicides, when had

470
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: you ever.

471
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 2: Talked to Frankie the last time beforehand? Yes, probably late December.

472
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:34,479
Speaker 1: Late December of twenty fifteen. Yes, okay, And isn't it

473
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 1: true that you told us that you didn't even know

474
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: Hannah Hazel.

475
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 2: I have met her one time in my life.

476
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 1: But at the Border, when you were interviewed in twenty seventeen,

477
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: you said you had never met her, that the last

478
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: person you knew Frankie to be seen was some girl

479
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: named Angel, and that was before you got married in

480
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: twenty twelve.

481
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 2: Angel was before Chelsea.

482
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: You indicated at the border that the last person you

483
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: knew Frankie to be seen was some girl named Angel,

484
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 1: and that was when you still had your pulling chuck,

485
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: which was before you got married.

486
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 2: Not that I remember. I could be wrong, but not

487
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 2: that I remember.

488
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, George Wagner admitted that he hadn't seen Frankie

489
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 4: Rodin in months and had never met Frankie's son. He

490
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 4: explained that he didn't have as much time for friends

491
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 4: when he began long haul driving, also after his own

492
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 4: son was born. However, the prosecution presented an alternative theory.

493
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: So you'd never met Hannah Hazel. Usually a woman's pregnant

494
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: for nine months and Ruger was six months at the

495
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: time of burse that's at least fifteen months where you

496
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 1: didn't know Hannah Hazel, never met her, never met her.

497
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: But Frankie was your best friend.

498
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 2: Yes, who I considered my best friend who you block

499
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 2: on Facebook, who I did not walk on Facebook.

500
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: Well, he was blocked on your Facebook.

501
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 2: It might be, but it didn't happen for me, okay.

502
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: And you did not have any Facebook conversations with Frankie either.

503
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 5: Did you?

504
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: Not very many that I remember.

505
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: As in zero, not that I remember, okay.

506
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 4: And you can have a question George's relationship with the

507
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 4: mother of Frankie, Roden's oldest child, who had testified earlier

508
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 4: in the child She alleged that there was bad blood

509
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 4: between George and Frankie.

510
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: You remember Chelsea testifying, Yes, okay. Is it true that

511
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: you reached out to her at.

512
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 2: Some point, at one point in time by me and

513
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 2: Chelsea started talking, yes, okay.

514
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: And Frankie found out about.

515
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 2: That, Yes, and he was upset in the beginning, Yes

516
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: to I explained that he was nothing more than friends.

517
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: Okay. So then Chelsea's lying when she said that that

518
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: put a you guys held a grudge against each other

519
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: after that, and no, your.

520
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 2: Friendship, we did not grudge against each other after that.

521
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: Okay. So she's lying.

522
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 2: I'm not saying she's lying, saying she's mistaken.

523
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: Okay, But you never met Hannah Hazel and didn't know

524
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 1: his name.

525
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 5: No.

526
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: You also indicated that Frankie was a fighter, yes, that

527
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 1: you've seen videos of him fighting. Yes, And that you

528
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: would have to go through Frankie to get to anyone

529
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: in the family more unlikely. Yeah, I mean that's what

530
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: you said.

531
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, I don't see Frankie let anybody mess.

532
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: With his family, yeah, or Kenneth right.

533
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 2: I don't see anybody in their family, let anybody mess

534
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 2: with their family.

535
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,479
Speaker 4: And Jakanappa also attacks George Wagner's claims that he hated

536
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 4: his own family and wanted to escape them. She does

537
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 4: this by referencing a conversation Jeorge had in twenty eighteen

538
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 4: with his new girlfriend Josie.

539
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: And I guess you tried, or at least it seemed

540
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: yesterday that you were talking about Jake as if you

541
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: hardly even liked him at which point in time, any

542
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: point in time.

543
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: From early time, childhood, it wasn't that bad with him.

544
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: We were just little kids, but the older we got

545
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 2: the worst. He died, okay, and at the last point

546
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: I might get ten good days out of one hundred

547
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 2: with him, maybe.

548
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: Okay, But you just saw that text message in twenty

549
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: eighteen right to Josie. Yes, where you're saying I'm really

550
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: close with my family, you're kind of warning her or

551
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: making sure that she's okay with that, because you were

552
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: contemplating having her come live with you.

553
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 2: Right, not at the house house staying in though, Say

554
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: it again, not that the house I was staying in.

555
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: Though, But you wanted her to come live with you.

556
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 2: I want her to move down here eventually, because that's

557
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 2: what she was talking about. But I wasn't going to

558
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 2: let her move in the house with my mother.

559
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: Okay, you didn't want her in the house with your mother, correct,

560
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: So in July of twenty eighteen, when you were talking

561
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: to your mother on the phone, when you said that

562
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: you wanted your own little farm somewhere out west where

563
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: I can still make a living and where me and

564
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: Jake can live peacefully with you and the kids and

565
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: whoever else we decide to bring so we can have

566
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: a nice, peaceful life without all of that craft and

567
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: the drama from everyone.

568
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: Am I allowed to explain this?

569
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: Did you say that?

570
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 2: Yes? I said that? Okay, Am I allowed to go

571
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: into details this? Sure, it doesn't mean live in the

572
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: same house. It means by a bigger farm, and he

573
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: has a house on one corner. She has a house

574
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 2: on one corner, and I've got a house on corner.

575
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: Okay, kind of like what you guys were considering doing

576
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: when you moved to Missouri. Right.

577
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 4: In a further effort to discredit George Wagner's testimony, the

578
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 4: prosecution brought out transcripts of his interview with BCI agents

579
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 4: at the Montana border in twenty seventeen and challenged him

580
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 4: on the discrepancy between what he said then and what

581
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 4: he was saying now on the witness stand.

582
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: I know you talked about your mother and you said, well.

583
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 2: You describe her to me, she is thanks you better

584
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 2: than everybody. Thanks. Everything has to be done her way.

585
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: I would probably say that I could put selfish in

586
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 2: that manipulative.

587
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: And again, I mean, this is new and different than

588
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: what you told us at the border.

589
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 5: Right.

590
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: That's not what you said about your mother at the border.

591
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 5: Right.

592
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: I don't remember what I said at the border.

593
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, you were asked if your mom was controlling.

594
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,959
Speaker 1: I bet your mom is so controlling that she probably

595
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: even organized the whole thing. And you said, my mom

596
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: is not controlling. You were asked your mom's not controlling,

597
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: you said no at all. Do you remember saying that.

598
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 2: I don't remember saying that.

599
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, is that true.

600
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: That she's not controlling?

601
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: Correct?

602
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: As a before my tenth birthday, she wasn't so bad

603
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 2: that I can remember, but she got worse as the

604
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: years went by.

605
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: Okay. So in twenty seventeen, when you were asked that

606
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: question and you said she's not controlling.

607
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: She tried to do or not as far as actually

608
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 2: controlling me, No, she didn't, okay, but she tried to

609
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: control me. If that answers your question.

610
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just trying to figure out what the truth is,

611
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: considering you said one thing at the border, and you

612
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: said an entirely different thing yesterday and today.

613
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 4: So, despite testifying that his mother was manipulative and selfish,

614
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 4: George tried to explain why he was willing to sign

615
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 4: away custody of a son.

616
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: You talked about these custody documents that you and your

617
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: brother signed, and your mother forged the signature for panah

618
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: On correct, all in the same magical day.

619
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 5: Correct y.

620
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: You obviously heard the testimony that that happened at the

621
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: kitchen table in your house.

622
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: It was in the kitchen.

623
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: In the kitchen, okay, So you agree with that.

624
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: I agree. I signed my name to mine in the

625
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: kitchen and left.

626
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: Okay, And you indicated you just sign that. Yes, so

627
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: you trust your mother.

628
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: I trust my mother seventy five eight percent. There's some

629
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: parts of her I don't trust.

630
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: Okay, But you signed this document saying if you were

631
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: to be killed or something happened to you, she would

632
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: get your child.

633
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 2: Who else would I leave him to? I have no

634
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 2: one else to leave him to.

635
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was dated twenty fifteen, and that's not

636
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: when you signed those documents.

637
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: I didn't know what date was on it. I signed

638
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: it early sixteen.

639
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: You signed it in April sometimes sixteen.

640
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: I don't know the exact date.

641
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, obviously sometime after April third or twenty sixteen,

642
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: because that was when it was printed.

643
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 5: Off the computer.

644
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: Could be I don't know the exact date, but it

645
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: was sixteen. I didn't pay much attention to another seeing

646
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: it had my signature.

647
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 4: And Jacineppa then showed George Wagner the custody documents that

648
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 4: he signed. She once again pressed George and why he

649
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 4: signed them without paying attention.

650
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: You could look at that and it's the document that signed,

651
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: So that is.

652
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: Your signature, yeah, okay. And you see the date at

653
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: the bottom there, yes, okay. And it's that consistent with

654
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: your experience. As far as your computer spitting out the

655
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: date something is printed.

656
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: Off the computer, I couldn't tell you, and I don't

657
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: use computers that much.

658
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: But this is dated March eleventh or twenty fifteen. Yes,

659
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: and it clearly was not signed in March eleventh or

660
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: two fifteen.

661
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 2: No, I signed it the day it was printed off.

662
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: So I mean you realize it's forgery to backdate a document, right, yes, okay.

663
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: And it's forgery to sign somebody else's name to a document.

664
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: Yes, I can see that, Okay. I just don't see

665
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 2: how me signing my name is forgery.

666
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: Well, it was backdated.

667
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: I didn't know that the page was, from my understanding blank,

668
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: from what I can remember, when I signed.

669
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: My name, she just signed your name to a completely blank.

670
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: Document, to a custody document. She said, sign my name.

671
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 2: I signed it, walked out.

672
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: But you wanted to leave your child with your mother.

673
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: If something was ever that happened to me? Yes, I had.

674
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: There was no one else to leave it to him again.

675
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: You had lots of conversations about concerns about the handwriting

676
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: that was going to be taken because.

677
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: It's something to do with law enforcement, and I was

678
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: raised at law enforcements. Crooking tries to twist everything.

679
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: Well, you were raised to commit a lot of crimes.

680
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: I was not that it was right, but that's how

681
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: I was raised. It took me a long time to

682
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 2: realize that it was wrong.

683
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: And that no matter when did you realize that?

684
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 2: When I realized that my dad was wrong and it

685
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: was actually hurting people.

686
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: So that particular crime you realized was actually hurting people, right,

687
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: the stealing of stuff out of the traitors, Yes, but

688
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: you didn't swear off a life of crime just that

689
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: particular when you realize there actually were victims.

690
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: Indeed, I went with the stealing fuel and loads. I

691
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: quit in late fourteen. I believe the last thing I

692
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: can remember doing, aside from deer hunting, that was being

693
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,959
Speaker 2: considered illegal, was the Duramax being. Rick asked after that

694
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: it was just dear honey.

695
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 4: Despite his claim of changing his ways and leaving his

696
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 4: life of crime behind him, Angie Caineppa questioned George Wagner

697
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 4: about the illegal activities he continued to engage in, including

698
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 4: using a fake address to get his trucking license.

699
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 2: You that.

700
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: So it's an application for a driver's license, correct?

701
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: Yes? Okay?

702
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: And what address did you put down there?

703
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 2: Ok?

704
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: Okay? That is not where you were living.

705
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: No, it's my grandmother's form, I remember. Correct, it has

706
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: something to do with l right, now, that's why used

707
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: that address.

708
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: Well, you're providing false information to a state agency. Correct.

709
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 2: Yes.

710
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 4: Prosecutor Angie Caineppa then showed George Wagner a series of

711
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 4: gun receipts and purchase forms.

712
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: So you know that you have to put accurate information

713
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: on those forms, correct, Yes, it's a federal offense not

714
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: to But you're purchasing a firearm, right, okay, So if

715
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: you could go ahead and look at it and tell

716
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: us what address you put down there?

717
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: It's eight or five Vessel Hill.

718
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: Rid Okay, but that's not relived.

719
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: Not the time my license had expired, and when I

720
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: bought my firearms, I was advised just to use what

721
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: was on the driver's license. I had then taking time

722
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: to change it.

723
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: Actually, that's not permitted.

724
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 2: That's what that was advised five other people I bought

725
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: them from. They said to put the addresses on my license.

726
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: You understand that making any false, oral or written statement,

727
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: or exhibiting any false or misrepresented identification with respect to

728
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: this transaction is a crime punishable as a felony. Yes,

729
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: under federal law. Yes, but at least three, at least

730
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 1: these three forms, you did not provide accurate information correct.

731
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 2: As far as the driver's license address up.

732
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 4: After George Wagner admitted lying on government firearm forms, Kneppa

733
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 4: move to point out other key discrepancies and George Wagner's testimony,

734
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 4: particularly around when he went to bed the night of

735
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 4: the murderers.

736
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 6: Prosecutors saying twenty seventeen, Wagner told investigators that he'd gone

737
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 6: to bed at twelve thirty am on the night of

738
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 6: the murders after watching a movie with his family. However,

739
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 6: in his testimony today, he claimed it was around ten pm.

740
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: You said that the night of the homicides you went

741
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: to bed at ten o'clock.

742
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,439
Speaker 2: Can issue if I remember correctly, It's been.

743
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: A long time, okay, all right, and so do you

744
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: recall again being interviewed at the border and saying that

745
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: the four of you, well, the six of you. Actually,

746
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: your mom, your dad, your brother, yourself were watching a

747
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: movie and you were up until you didn't go to

748
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: bed till twelve thirty.

749
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 2: Don't remember what kime was. Okay.

750
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: Do you remember telling the border at the border, the

751
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: agents when they asked you about what you did that night,

752
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: you saying that your mom had fixed cheeseburgers for you

753
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: and how delicious they were, and she makes the best

754
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: and maybe one day she could make them for them.

755
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 2: I don't remember that now. I'm not saying I didn't say.

756
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: I just said I don't remember.

757
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 13: Okay.

758
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: You indicated that you watched a fairy movie. Don't remember

759
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: what a movie that wanted to watch.

760
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: I just I remember watching a movie of the kids

761
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 2: at this point, I don't remember what it was. It's

762
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 2: been a long time.

763
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: And you indicated that that is when your son would

764
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 1: usually go to sleep as well.

765
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: My son usually went to sleep ten or eleven usually. Okay,

766
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 2: there is what I can remember.

767
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,959
Speaker 1: Is there a reason that you would lie to the

768
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: people at the border.

769
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 2: I'm not saying I did. I'm saying I don't remember

770
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 2: what time to like told them that, Okay, I mean

771
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: it may have been I just from my remembory. Now,

772
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: I remember going to bed around tennish. I could be

773
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: wrong about that, that's what I remember.

774
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, because now we know that Chris Senior and

775
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: Gary were being killed at eleven PM, right, I don't

776
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: know that. You don't know that up. No.

777
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 4: Previously, Jake Wagner testified that George participated in the murders. However,

778
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 4: Jake said that George did not fire any shots.

779
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: You don't know that. That's when your dad had Chris

780
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: call his phone and you saw the phone calls.

781
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: Correct, I'm saying I wasn't there. I don't know when

782
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 2: Chris had.

783
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: Died, right, Okay, you know that's what Jake said.

784
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 2: I know my brother's time is off on everything that's

785
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 2: been showed in here.

786
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: So now we know, at least according to Jake, that

787
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: Chris Senior and Gary were killed at eleven o'clock.

788
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 5: Right.

789
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: I think that's what he said, which makes your story

790
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: at the border impossible.

791
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: Right Again, I don't remember exactly everything I said to

792
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 2: the border.

793
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: Well, I assume you were trying your best to tell

794
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: the truth when you were interviewed.

795
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 2: At the border, correct to my knowledge of what I remembered.

796
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not interested as much as what you said,

797
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: as much as do you agree that it would be

798
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: more accurate back then.

799
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: I can't agree yes or no because I just don't know.

800
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: Okay, you agree that you were trying to be honest

801
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: with the agents. Certainly weren't trying to lie to them.

802
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree on that you certainly weren't trying.

803
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 1: To provide a cover story for you and your brother

804
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 1: and your father and your mother. Right, So this whole

805
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: idea that we're going to coordinate our response and say

806
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: that we were all together a family night movie night watching,

807
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: watching a video. Surely you didn't just make this up

808
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: when you told no the people at the border. It

809
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: just happened to be the same story that you guys

810
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: had agreed in advance to tell.

811
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 2: There was no agreement in advance. My dad came down,

812
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: my kid didn't want him to leave.

813
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: So your story today or yesterday is that you actually

814
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: went to that at ten.

815
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: From what I remember at this point in time, I

816
00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 2: believe it was tannish.

817
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:04,879
Speaker 1: Okay, So how could Jake and your father have been

818
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: up on the hill killing Chris Senior and Geary less

819
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: than an hour after you went into your bedroom.

820
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 2: I can't answer that. I don't know.

821
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 4: Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati now at

822
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 4: Local twelve.

823
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 3: When George Wagner testified that he went to bed at

824
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 3: ten o'clock, the two special prosecutors, Angela Kaneppa and Andy

825
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 3: Wilson looked at each other almost like pointed at each

826
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 3: other like, haha, we have not heard what George had

827
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 3: to tell Ohio BCI when they stopped the family at

828
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 3: the Montana border on their way back from Alaska in

829
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 3: May June twenty seventeen. They have not played a lot

830
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 3: of that. They have not played any of that. They

831
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 3: played some of jakes, they played Angela's, but they've not

832
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 3: played any of George's. And I think there was a

833
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 3: strategic reason behind that, because they might have expected that

834
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: George was going to testify for himself and they did

835
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 3: not want him to hear what he had to say

836
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 3: back then, so he could they can catch him in

837
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 3: a contradiction, and they did and it was a big one.

838
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 3: So they spent a lot of time and they hammered

839
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 3: him on Angela Caneppa, if you listen to it, he

840
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 3: hammers a moment and I think if I'm saying there's

841
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 3: a juror, if they paid his closest attention to this

842
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 3: trial as I have, that's that's a red flag.

843
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 4: The prosecution also hammered George Wagner on other red flags

844
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 4: as well. This included denying any knowledge that Jake owned

845
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 4: a Walther Colt twenty two pistol.

846
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: Have you ever owned a nineteen eleven twenty two?

847
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: No?

848
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: Has your brother ever owned one?

849
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 2: Too? More knowledge? No?

850
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: So his testimony he had this for more than a year.

851
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 1: You were unaware of that.

852
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: If he's owned it that long, I didn't know about it.

853
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, obviously there's a picture of him holding that

854
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: weapon in two thousand fifteen.

855
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 2: Now I see what the pictures his the back then.

856
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 2: I didn't think.

857
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: That he hid it from you. What is it he

858
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: hit it from you?

859
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: If he's had it that long, he must have.

860
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: Why she's got a curiosity. Why would you do that?

861
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: Because you guys keep those your guns in your safe right.

862
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 2: According to my brother's statement, he said that he'd owned

863
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 2: every one of them guns on that list, and I've

864
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 2: not seen over half of what's under his name.

865
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: You feel to answer the question, you guys, keep your

866
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: guns in.

867
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 2: Your safe, correct most of them.

868
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 1: So you're saying he owns guns you don't know of.

869
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 2: I'm saying it's possible. I've owned hundreds of young.

870
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: Over a year. He owned a gun and you were

871
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: oblivious to it.

872
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 2: It's very well possible.

873
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 4: Here again journalist James Pilcher.

874
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 3: George has said he never saw and has never seen

875
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 3: the nineteen eleven Walter Colt twenty two caliber that was

876
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 3: used in the murders, even though agen Scheider texted them

877
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 3: a picture of Jake holding it that they got off

878
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 3: at Jake's phone, so they'd never seen that gun before. Ever,

879
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 3: he bought that handgun had a gun show in Columbus

880
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 3: a couple of years before the murders at the end

881
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 3: of January, on the same day that George bought a

882
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 3: different gun at the same gun show. They have the

883
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 3: paperwork showing that they didn't buy their guns at the

884
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 3: same vendor. So George was like, I didn't even know,

885
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 3: really know Jake was there. So if I'm a juror,

886
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, wait a minute, you mean to sell out

887
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 3: of the YouTube boys went up there separately to the

888
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 3: same gun show and bought guns on the same day

889
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,479
Speaker 3: and didn't know each other was there while your father's there.

890
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 3: It was a small but key moment. At the end

891
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 3: of the day.

892
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 4: During one of his conversations with Jake after the murders,

893
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 4: George was recorded by BCI agent complaining that Jake could

894
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 4: not tell a lie. All this with George insisting that

895
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 4: Jake destroy evidence.

896
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 1: And you actually talk about that with Jake again, about

897
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: how his my whole life, I've been in trouble with

898
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: you because of you telling on everything and telling honesty. Yes,

899
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: And everybody says, my anger mouth is going to get

900
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: us in trouble, but it's always been your honesty that

901
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: gets us in trouble. Correct. And you say, children, you

902
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 1: have to tell on yourself, children, you have to tell

903
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: on me.

904
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, as we're children, that's what I'm referring to his eyes,

905
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 2: when we're children.

906
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: And you also tell him that he should have gotten

907
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: rid of the phone and he should have smashed the laptop. Correct, Yes,

908
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: and again that's because we got a lot of evidence

909
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:54,720
Speaker 1: from those items.

910
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 2: My understanding of it was that he kept saying, you

911
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 2: guys were twisting stuff that you found on it to

912
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 2: try and frame him.

913
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 4: Let's stop here for another break. Nearing the end of

914
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 4: her cross examination, Prosecutor Anjacineppa brought up George's long history

915
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 4: of calling female family members derogatory names. This included one

916
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 4: incident where George complained about Jake's four year old daughter.

917
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: This is the call where you said she can't keep

918
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: her nose out of somebody else's life. She being yes,

919
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: and George, she's four years old. Yes, you said she

920
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: does anything deliberate you to try and crush him deliberately.

921
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 1: Bitch got to ruin everything. You referred to your niece,

922
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: your four year niece, as a bitch because she was.

923
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: I'll explain this before five six days with no sleeping caffeine.

924
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 2: You say stuff you don't really mean.

925
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, you said a lot of things.

926
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 2: Makes you irritable. Sure, and she went around telling my

927
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 2: son that she had a new mom and he didn't.

928
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: You called her bitch. You remember calling your grandmother, Frederica

929
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: a crazy whore.

930
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 2: I don't remember that.

931
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: You don't remember telling your mom to calm that crazy

932
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 1: hor down.

933
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 2: I don't remember that conversation, am I saying as possible? Yeah,

934
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 2: I've probably said something like that. I've said a lot

935
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 2: of stuff on my being upset that I really didn't mean,

936
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 2: but I've said it because I've been days without sleeping,

937
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 2: massive amounts of caffeine.

938
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: Sure, And I mean you called Randa, I think a

939
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: lazy crackhore.

940
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 2: I think I've called her that more than once, okay.

941
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: And you told the agents at the border that you

942
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: thought that Hannah turned into a.

943
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 2: Whore from what everybody else will say, okay.

944
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: And that was after she had left Jake.

945
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 2: Well everybody else was saying after she left Jake. To

946
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 2: my understanding, I don't think she ever really did, but

947
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,280
Speaker 2: that's what everybody else will say, okay.

948
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: And you called certainly called Tabby a whore many times,

949
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 1: and referred to Batman as a whore just like Tabby

950
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: many times.

951
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 4: Here again, Antinnette Levy, he's calling his niece.

952
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 11: You know, I think he called his niece a bit.

953
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 2: She called his.

954
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 11: Sister in law horror, I mean, and he attributes that

955
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 11: to you know, I drive on the road and I'm

956
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 11: up a long time, and you know, drink caffeine, and

957
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 11: I just think to myself, like I could see that.

958
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 10: I mean, I mean, I've been wound.

959
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 11: Up before and ranted and and said things and you know,

960
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 11: you go.

961
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: Off on a.

962
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 11: Tirade, but at the same time, in one of my

963
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 11: tirades are rants. I've not spoken about a four year

964
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 11: old child like that.

965
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 4: Unable to explain the many inconsistencies in his testimony, George

966
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 4: Wagner pushed back against angiecin Eppu's questions. He insisted in

967
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 4: one of the most tense exchanges of the day, that

968
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 4: his mother and brother are lying, and.

969
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 2: My mom and brother are lying to you.

970
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 1: They have been like everybody else, Like everybody else is lying,

971
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 1: like Tabitha is lying, Chelsea's lying, like everybody to talk

972
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: about Frankie's lying. Everybody is lying except for you.

973
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 2: I did not say Chelsea is lying. I said she's mistaken.

974
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: Right, And even though you've not managed to tell us

975
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: anything consistent with what you told the agents at the

976
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: border in twenty seventeen, you're the one that's telling the truth.

977
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: I don't remember exactly everything I said the border.

978
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: That's not the question. The question is what you're saying

979
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: does today is not consistent with what you've said at

980
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: the border.

981
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 2: Ye. I can't say if you guse or not because

982
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 2: I don't remember everything I've said there.

983
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: But everybody else is lying.

984
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 2: I'm saying that my mom and Tabby Jake's lying about

985
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,439
Speaker 2: that night. We're gonna mistake in one. They're confusing two

986
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 2: different events into one.

987
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 8: Angie Caneppa trying to trip up George, and he comes

988
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 8: across as very calm, very prepared, very even keeled. Does

989
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 8: it work again? He only needs to convince one juror

990
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 8: that he is telling the truth and that Jake and

991
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 8: his mom are lying. Caneppa is trying to rattle him,

992
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 8: but it just doesn't really seem to work. And at

993
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 8: the same time, Kinnepa makes the point for George to

994
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 8: be telling the truth, a lot of other people need

995
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 8: to be lying, which is a good point because Jake

996
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 8: and Angela were not able to corroborate their stories. They

997
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 8: have both been in separate jails this entire time with

998
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 8: no communication, so the fact that their truth stories matchup

999
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 8: is a pretty good indicator that they perhaps they're telling

1000
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 8: the truth, because George could be lying all by himself,

1001
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 8: but how could those who have the same story without

1002
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 8: communicating first.

1003
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 9: They may have practiced a script to some degree before

1004
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 9: they're arrests. They might have been planning for this moment

1005
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 9: all along.

1006
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 10: But on the other hand, Jake Wagner and Angela Wagner

1007
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 10: are both.

1008
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 8: The state's witnesses, so that means they've been working with

1009
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,919
Speaker 8: the prosecution and their team to figure out what.

1010
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 10: They're going to say on the stand. In conversation with Mike.

1011
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 8: Allen, lawyers have to tread very lately about coaching witnesses

1012
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 8: on what they're going to say, But we do know

1013
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 8: they can prepare them, and prepare them they do. They

1014
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,760
Speaker 8: spend hours talking over every single possible detail.

1015
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 4: Here's Jeff speaking with attorney and legal analyst Mike Allen.

1016
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 8: We heard all this technical stuff for so long, like

1017
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 8: the ballistics and the shoeprint, all these things, but I

1018
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 8: think it ultimately comes down to its what George said

1019
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 8: versus what Angela Jake said like that is what I

1020
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 8: think the jury probably most weighed. Do you see it

1021
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:05,919
Speaker 8: that same way or yeah?

1022
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 13: I mean it would come down to credibility from George

1023
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:14,320
Speaker 13: and Angela, And I think the credibility goes with Angela

1024
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,760
Speaker 13: because George any number of times just said I don't recall,

1025
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 13: I don't remember, I didn't count him up, but there

1026
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 13: are a lot of times that he said that and

1027
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 13: I don't recall hearing that in Angela or Jake's testimony

1028
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 13: for that matter. It was just pretty straightforward. So I

1029
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 13: think if you didn't have the physical evidence and it's

1030
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 13: you know, it's George against those two, I think I

1031
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 13: think they win and George doesn't because a lot of

1032
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 13: things he didn't remember, and he contradicted himself on a

1033
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 13: number of occasions.

1034
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 8: And also, I mean, it's Jake and Angela. They have

1035
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 8: not communicated, so it's not like their comparing notes. If

1036
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,919
Speaker 8: their stories lineup, isn't that must be worth a lot

1037
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 8: more than George by himself.

1038
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 13: No question about it. Because they were kept separate. There's

1039
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 13: no way they could get together out in the hallway

1040
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 13: and they get their story straight. So yeah, that, I mean,

1041
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 13: that gives them I think, another reason why they have

1042
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 13: the greater credibility here.

1043
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 4: But the prosecution wasn't quite done highlighting George Wagner's incriminating comments.

1044
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 1: You indicated that you wanted to kill Special Agent Schier. Correct.

1045
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: I said that, yes, okay, Jake didn't threaten him. Jake

1046
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:36,760
Speaker 1: did not threaten him, not to my knowledge. You remember

1047
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: telling your brother that you should go to BCI and

1048
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 1: tell them that he'll he'll rat you guys out because

1049
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: he's the biggest rat there is.

1050
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 2: Yes, I remember that, okay.

1051
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: And do you remember also telling your mother, let me

1052
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: tell you something. I love you the only reason and

1053
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: I'm sorry you're gonna hate when I say this. Everything

1054
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: that you and dad have ever gotten in trouble for

1055
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: with them mother frickers. The only reason they ever got

1056
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: away with that craft was because every time somebody caved,

1057
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: everybody crumbled. I ain't caving and I ain't crumbling. Do

1058
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: you remember saying that?

1059
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: Don't remember them exact words, but I do remember roughly.

1060
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 1: The conversation, okay, And that was played in overcourt.

1061
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 2: Thanks, so ya, okay?

1062
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: And is that your philosophy? You don't gave and you

1063
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:36,720
Speaker 1: don't crumble.

1064
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 2: Now, for what I believe you're trying to say it

1065
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 2: as wow, I.

1066
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 1: Don't specimically you're talking about anytime they got in trouble

1067
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: with law enforcements because somebody cracked.

1068
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 2: I don't believe you should plead out to something you

1069
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 2: didn't do.

1070
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 4: After the prosecution ended their cross examination of George Wagner,

1071
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 4: his defense attorney John Parker once again re asked him

1072
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:05,720
Speaker 4: several questions about the murders.

1073
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 7: George, just a few follow up questions, probably been along

1074
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 7: a couple of days before you, hasn't it appairly?

1075
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 5: George?

1076
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 7: Did you ever see Jake by the nineteen eleven No?

1077
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:17,720
Speaker 5: Did you know he owned one?

1078
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 2: No?

1079
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 9: One.

1080
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 7: Did you go up on Union Hill Road and participate

1081
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 7: in these murders in any way?

1082
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: No?

1083
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 5: Did you plan these murders?

1084
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 4: No?

1085
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 5: Did you know they were going to have?

1086
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: No?

1087
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 7: Did you know after the murders that they in fact

1088
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:32,760
Speaker 7: your family had been involved?

1089
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 2: No? Not until my rubbish proffert.

1090
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 7: And did you know did you ever go out to

1091
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 7: Left Fork Road where.

1092
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 5: Kid was killed?

1093
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: No?

1094
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 5: Has anybody paid you anything for your testing?

1095
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: No?

1096
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 5: Has anybody given you anything for your testimony?

1097
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 7: Now?

1098
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 5: Did the state off you a plea bargain for your testiment?

1099
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 2: No?

1100
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 5: Are you telling the truth?

1101
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:52,879
Speaker 2: Yes?

1102
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 5: Your life is on the line.

1103
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 9: Yes?

1104
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:56,720
Speaker 5: Are you telling the truth?

1105
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 4: Yes?

1106
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 5: As you answer to God?

1107
00:53:59,239 --> 00:53:59,399
Speaker 1: Yes?

1108
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 4: And if you yes, with one last chance to potentially

1109
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 4: trip up George Wagner prosecutor and Jacanappa asked him what

1110
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 4: happens to him if he admits to killing the Rodents?

1111
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: What happens to you if you come in here and

1112
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 1: admit that you and your brother and your father went

1113
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 1: up to Union Hill Road that night and then out

1114
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: to Left Fork Road that night and slaughtered perfectly innocent

1115
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 1: people who lay asleep in their beds, two of them

1116
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: with babies in the bed with them that, from all testimony,

1117
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 1: were actively nursing their infants. What happens to you if

1118
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 1: you come in here on that stand and.

1119
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 2: Admit to that, do you want to hear? Answer? Well,

1120
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 2: I feel it should happen to anybody that would do that.

1121
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,439
Speaker 1: I want to know what happens to you if you

1122
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: come in hear and admit that.

1123
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 2: What should happen to anybody is they should have death

1124
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 2: given to them.

1125
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: And the biggest difference you agree between you and your

1126
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 1: brother is that when he does wrong things, he tells

1127
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: about it and you.

1128
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 2: Don't when we were children.

1129
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 5: Yes, question, you may step down now.

1130
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 12: Since there's no DNA evidence connecting George Wagner to any

1131
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 12: of the crime scenes, jurors will have to decide who

1132
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 12: they believe him or Jakein and his mom Angela, who

1133
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:34,479
Speaker 12: have already said under oath that George Wagner was part

1134
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 12: of the plot to kill multiple people.

1135
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 4: More on that next time. For more information on the

1136
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 4: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kati

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00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:52,280
Speaker 4: Underscore Studios. The Pithon Masker is produced by Stephanie Leidecker,

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00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:57,360
Speaker 4: Jeff Shane, Connor Powell, Andrew Arnell, Gabriel Castillo and me

1139
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 4: Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ti Music

1140
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 4: by Jared Aston. The Pike did Maascer is a production

1141
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 4: of iHeartRadio and Katie's Studios. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio,

1142
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 4: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 4: to your favorite shows.