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Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph

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Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. The search is still on tonight

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Speaker 1: for three year old Mariah Woods. The girl was last

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Speaker 1: seen by her mother her home and on his Low County.

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Speaker 1: The mother tells me she last saw her daughter in

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Speaker 1: the home at around eleven PM when she checked on her.

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Speaker 1: This is my world, this is my angel. She said.

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Speaker 1: Her boyfriend saw the taller around midnight when he got up,

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Speaker 1: and she says he told her to go back to bed.

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Speaker 1: She was reported missing around six o'clock in the morning.

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Speaker 1: The love I have for this girl, the fond that

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Speaker 1: I have is my life. The child is white, three

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Speaker 1: ft nine inches tall, weighs thirty pounds and has blonde

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Speaker 1: hair and blue eyes. Not making sense to me about

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Speaker 1: where she could be at who she could be with.

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Speaker 1: Christie says she doesn't believe her child could have walked off,

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Speaker 1: as she has weak bones and we're special braces to

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Speaker 1: help her walk. I love her, don't never let her

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Speaker 1: go it get what to hold her tight, see her smile.

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Speaker 1: We are joining the search for a beauty, a full

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Speaker 1: baby girl, Mariah Ka Woods. She goes missing from her

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Speaker 1: home in the home her siblings, her mother, and her

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Speaker 1: mother's boyfriend. Now, let me understand what they say happened.

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Speaker 1: Joining me as Alex Woods. This is Mariah Baby. Mariah's father,

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Speaker 1: Mark Class, renowned victim's advocate, father of Polly Class who

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Speaker 1: went missing, Pat Brown, world renowned criminal profiler and psychologist

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Speaker 1: out of New York, Karen Stark, Alex Woods, I want

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Speaker 1: to go through with you if you can tell us

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Speaker 1: what police told you about how she went missing? What happened? Police?

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Speaker 1: They they think that she walked away. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't wait. Are you telling me that police think she

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Speaker 1: walked out of the house without her braces on? I mean,

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Speaker 1: describe her bray her leg braces for me, Alex? What

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Speaker 1: were they exactly? I don't know what. I'm sorry, I can't.

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Speaker 1: I can't hear what you're saying. Let me ask you

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Speaker 1: that question again. Describe her leg braces, Alex, m Alex,

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Speaker 1: are you there? Oh? Okay, you don't know he's he's

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Speaker 1: busting in here right now. Heather, Hi, Heather? Are you

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Speaker 1: his fiancee? Yeah? You know what? Can I talk to you?

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Speaker 1: I really want to get this message out to the listeners. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: right now, everyone Mariah's dad is completely overcome with the

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Speaker 1: grief of talking about baby Maria and with me is

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Speaker 1: his fiancee, Heather. Heather he called he heard about Mariah

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Speaker 1: missing on the radio. Nobody had called him and told

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Speaker 1: him anything. He says. He then called you to ask

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Speaker 1: you was it true? What happened? Heather? He heard it

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Speaker 1: through an amber alert. Um, he was working and he

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Speaker 1: heard an amber alert over the radio and he called

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Speaker 1: me and he was like, our daughter is missing. And

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Speaker 1: I thought because he was talking too, I thought. I

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Speaker 1: was like, watch daughter because we have to well. Uh

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Speaker 1: and then I was a watch Dawn. He's like Maria

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Speaker 1: and I was like no way. He said, yes, please

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Speaker 1: find out if it's true. And I was like okay.

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Speaker 1: So I got on my phone and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I pulled up you know, the amber I said. He said,

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Speaker 1: came across amber Less. I pulled up Amberler you know,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina, and I saw. I was like, yeah. I

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Speaker 1: called him back, Yeah that's true, and I saw that

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Speaker 1: it was you know, on Dustin Kavin everything. And then

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Speaker 1: he said that calling back, he said that a detective

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Speaker 1: was coming to talk to him. But I went down

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Speaker 1: to and talked to a detective and gave them Alex's information,

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Speaker 1: and the detectives said that they were not even notified

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Speaker 1: of Alex being the father, being her father, and until

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Speaker 1: he called, until we know, oh my goodness. Well, Pat Brown,

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Speaker 1: our criminal profiler, has pointed out how very odd it

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Speaker 1: was that nobody that the mom didn't call him immediately

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Speaker 1: to see if he had the baby, Heather, is he

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Speaker 1: able to speak yet? Yeah, he's right here, Okay, Alex, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I just want to thank you so much. And I

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Speaker 1: know it hurts. I know it's hurting you so badly

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Speaker 1: to verbalize what's going on in your head, in your heart,

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Speaker 1: but we got to get it out there. There are

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Speaker 1: millions of people on the road right now. There are

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Speaker 1: millions of people on in shopping centers, walking around a

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Speaker 1: strip center's laundry matts. You name an apartment complex is

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Speaker 1: that may hear this and may see her. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about three year old Mariah kay Woods. And she is

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Speaker 1: absolutely beautiful. She is brownish blonde hair with blue eyes.

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Speaker 1: Every picture I see of her, she's wearing pink and

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Speaker 1: she's gorgeous. Here's an identify her. She has a problem walking.

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Speaker 1: She wears braces, her braces were in the home. In

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Speaker 1: the home, now, correct me if I'm wrong, Alex Woods.

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Speaker 1: But the mom is saying she put the baby to

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Speaker 1: bed at eleven. Um, I've got conflicting reports about that,

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Speaker 1: but that the boyfriend the living sees her walking around

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Speaker 1: at twelve and tells her to go back to bed.

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Speaker 1: They check on her at six thirty in the morning

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Speaker 1: and she's gone. She had on pj's which were laying

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Speaker 1: beside the ad, which leaves her in nothing but a

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Speaker 1: pair of pink and white striped underwear. No other clothes

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Speaker 1: are missing, and her leg braces are in the home.

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Speaker 1: They also say the door was unlocked and slightly a jar.

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Speaker 1: Is that right, Alex, yes, ma'am, there's uh. People are

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Speaker 1: also saying that they seeing somebody like go out the

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Speaker 1: back door about three four o'clock in the morning. He

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Speaker 1: was saying that just people, their neighbors. I guess I

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Speaker 1: don't know for sure. I ain't heard a name or

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Speaker 1: nothing like that. How they said it was like a

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Speaker 1: grandma that helped Christie watching the baby's and her name

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Speaker 1: was Anna or something. I don't remember her last name,

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Speaker 1: but that she's seen somebody go out in the back door,

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Speaker 1: apparently about three or four o'clock in the morning, carrying something,

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Speaker 1: and it looked like it was limped. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: They've founded Christie's van for evidence and on a trash

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Speaker 1: can and pounded it for evidence. I don't know, Alex Woods,

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Speaker 1: Mariah's dad. You're giving me so much information. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to digest it and and evaluate it. So now we

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Speaker 1: hear that there may be an eyewitness in that little

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Speaker 1: neighborhood that sees someone leaving Mariah's home between three and

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Speaker 1: four a m. Now, I know, Mark Class, that sounds crazy.

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Speaker 1: Who's up at three or four a m. Looking out

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Speaker 1: the window? But you know what, I have a habit

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Speaker 1: of waking up every night at three o'clock, don't know why,

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Speaker 1: and I walk around the whole place. I check on

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Speaker 1: the children, I check on my mom, I check on everything,

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Speaker 1: and then I try to go back to sleep. It's

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Speaker 1: not unheard of, Mark Class, but it's interesting to me

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Speaker 1: that that piece of evidence isn't out there. I'm just

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Speaker 1: hearing it for the first time right now. Mark, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're hearing a lot of mind boggling information. There's no

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Speaker 1: question about that. If I were Alex, what I would

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Speaker 1: do now is I would find the authorities. I go

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Speaker 1: and find somebody either with the local sheriff's department or

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Speaker 1: maybe even the FBI, because we know that they're involved,

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Speaker 1: and find somebody that will talk to him and share

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Speaker 1: as much information as they can about the investigation so

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Speaker 1: that he can separate us from the fact um. Because

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Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like he's he's done that yet. I

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Speaker 1: think it's really really important for him to be as

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Speaker 1: much as on top of this investigation as he can

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Speaker 1: possibly be, and to be on top of it with

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Speaker 1: good information and real information. You know what you're absolutely right,

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Speaker 1: Pat Brown, criminal profiler. You're hearing Alex Woods. This is

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Speaker 1: Mariah's dad, Mark Class world renowned victims Right's advocate, you're

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Speaker 1: the criminal profiler also with me Karen Stark, psychologist out

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Speaker 1: of New York, Pat, based on what you're hearing now,

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Speaker 1: And we don't know Alex doesn't know what this is

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Speaker 1: sure or not, but the time would fit, and we

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Speaker 1: don't know who that person is. Is it intruder, is

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Speaker 1: it someone already in the home. But I would not

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Speaker 1: totally discount what he's saying. Pat Brown wig in, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I tend to believe that someone would have

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Speaker 1: carried the child out of the home. I don't believe

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Speaker 1: that she walked out of the home. I think that's

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Speaker 1: kind of strange behavior for a three year old in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night, not to go to her mother,

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Speaker 1: but to just wander out of the house. I don't

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Speaker 1: buy that one um that you know, so somebody took

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Speaker 1: her out of the house. And I think what what

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Speaker 1: is encouraging to me is that the police appear to

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Speaker 1: have two different UH avenues in their investigation. One they're

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Speaker 1: checking out the family home because it is true that

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Speaker 1: when children disappear out of homes, it often does it

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Speaker 1: has something to do with what happened in the home.

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Speaker 1: And boyfriends are one of the most dangerous people around

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Speaker 1: small children because they don't have that connection, that love

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Speaker 1: and connection to the child, and little children are difficult

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Speaker 1: to deal with us parents anyway, and a boyfriend doesn't

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Speaker 1: have that connection and can become much more angry than

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Speaker 1: a general parent. So they're going to look at that

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Speaker 1: particular that that avenue because they have to. They have

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Speaker 1: to say, we made we want to make sure that

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Speaker 1: something didn't happen in the home. And it looks like

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Speaker 1: they're doing that. But I'm also very pleased that at

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Speaker 1: the same time they're looking outside the home thinking perhaps

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Speaker 1: somebody did have their eye on the child, maybe somebody

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Speaker 1: did come in in the night. Let's not ignore that avenue,

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Speaker 1: because if the child has been taken by somebody else,

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Speaker 1: they want to find that child as quickly as possible

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Speaker 1: to bring her home safely. So I'm really glad that

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Speaker 1: they're pursuing all avenues, following up on what criminal profile

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Speaker 1: or pat Brown, says Karen Stark. If it were me,

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Speaker 1: I would submit to a polygraphic fronto the mom and

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Speaker 1: the boyfriend, the whole bunch. Yeah, I would do you know,

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Speaker 1: and drill and ask a million questions you know they

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Speaker 1: got If they know something, they will come out. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if they know something now they ain't said it, they

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Speaker 1: ain't gonna tell it. They're trying to cover it up.

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Speaker 1: If if they ain't said it by now, Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: do you mean? What? What? What? Why would you say that? Well? Early,

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Speaker 1: he's he's um drug user and he's not caught working

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Speaker 1: and got fires for drugs. He's got a bed, a

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Speaker 1: bed uh temper and I don't know, it's just it's

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Speaker 1: just strange, I mean, and Christie King to the ideal mom.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, ain't nobody perfect, but she's far

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Speaker 1: from perfect. Well, all of the things that Alex Wood

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Speaker 1: is telling us, I do not have any evidence to

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Speaker 1: support any drug allegations or bad parenting. There are also

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Speaker 1: reports that child Protective Services took Mariah and the siblings

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Speaker 1: away in two thousand sixteen, and were they were placed

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Speaker 1: with Alex Woods? Is that in fact true, Alex Yes?

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Speaker 1: And again, why did they take the children from the mother?

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Speaker 1: Because her boyfriend beat Brian with a belt and let's boozes,

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Speaker 1: and they try to cover it up and say that

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Speaker 1: he fell off a bunk bed. Wait, are you saying

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Speaker 1: this about Are you saying this about the living boyfriend?

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Speaker 1: The living boyfriend he's gone, who beat ran into the

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Speaker 1: belt and Christie covered it up Ryan? Are you saying

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Speaker 1: Ryan is Maria's brother? Okay? And because I want to

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Speaker 1: turn this back toward Mariah missing, Alex Woods, have you

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Speaker 1: talked to Mariah's mother yet? No? Okay? What are police

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Speaker 1: telling you about what happened? What they think happened that

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Speaker 1: night when she goes missing? They're not really telling me yet.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they're trying to get as much evidence and

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Speaker 1: stuff build up as they can. I mean, I've called

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Speaker 1: nathm and I'm in continuous contact with him, and ain't

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Speaker 1: really you know, breaking it down and telling me a

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Speaker 1: specific story, you know. I mean, they're getting stories from

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Speaker 1: this person and that person. They're trying to filter it

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Speaker 1: out and get a real concrete story to run with,

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Speaker 1: you know. Karen stark Uh joining me out of New York.

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Speaker 1: It seems to me if the baby was wandering around,

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Speaker 1: she would have gone to her mother. Although the boyfriend

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Speaker 1: says he saw her and told her to go back

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Speaker 1: to bed. That may have stopped her from going to

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Speaker 1: her mother. But I find it hard to believe this

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Speaker 1: child would leave the house in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 1: I really do. It doesn't make any sense unless she

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Speaker 1: had a history of doing that at three years old.

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Speaker 1: She would not just walk out of her house. That's

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Speaker 1: too scary. And I'm just curious because Alex says he

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Speaker 1: doesn't believe that that's what happened either, And I was

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Speaker 1: wondering what he was talking about when he said that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's ask him, Alex, what do you think happened? Well,

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Speaker 1: Christie's own father said that, you know, that's he don't

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Speaker 1: believe that's what happened. And him and that girl Anna

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Speaker 1: have heard and believe and seeing that there was their

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Speaker 1: stories match up that there was somebody that was carrying

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Speaker 1: something out the house about three or four o'clock in

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Speaker 1: the morning. And I don't know, I just you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it just don't seem right because I just

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Speaker 1: don't see the little girl walking. Have you asked police

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Speaker 1: whether the boyfriend and the mom have taken polygraphs? I

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Speaker 1: have not yet. I have asked that. They said not yet.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why, but they ain't ain't put him

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Speaker 1: on polygraph And yet they've questioned him several times, but

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Speaker 1: no polyg the TIPLO three three. Please help us bring

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Speaker 1: baby Mariah home, Alex. If you could speak to your

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Speaker 1: little girl, Maria or whoever took her, what would you say.

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Speaker 1: Complease bring the little baby girl back home. She's cracious,

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Speaker 1: she's an innocent, she ain't done nothing and nobody. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she's a little three year old girl. We me and

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Speaker 1: my Danna say we love her so much. We've missed

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Speaker 1: her so much. Daddy loves you so much. Baby. Please

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Speaker 1: come home. Money again, everybody, please help us join together

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Speaker 1: and solve this mystery. Four on three. So many lives

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Speaker 1: hang in the balance. I want to pause and thank

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Speaker 1: police on the hunt for a killer after the shooting

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Speaker 1: deaths of three people in ten days. We will hunt

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Speaker 1: this son of a down and tail. We find the

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Speaker 1: authorities pouring over braining surveillance video for clues looking at

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Speaker 1: this person of interest walking alone and quaring the hood

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Speaker 1: on the night of the first killing. You guys, go

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Speaker 1: hunt him down and bring his head to me, and

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Speaker 1: please to announce the tonight we will be making an

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Speaker 1: arrest from the Seminalle Heights murder. Tonight is the beginning

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Speaker 1: of when justice will be served and then the process

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Speaker 1: will occur when this individual rots and help. Did you

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Speaker 1: to fifty and say grace. Our specialists are standing by

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Speaker 1: right now straight out to near to Cineceulo, with w

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Speaker 1: F l A joining us in the Seminal Heights neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: breaking knees Mere to ceceulo what happened. There was a

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Speaker 1: man who worked at a McDonald's restaurant a couple of

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Speaker 1: miles from Seminal Heights and he ran out to run

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Speaker 1: an air and as what he told a coworker and

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Speaker 1: left a bag with that coworker, and the coworker decided

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Speaker 1: to take a look inside and actually found a gun.

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Speaker 1: There happened to be a police officer. Have a police

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Speaker 1: officer that was actually in the restaurant at that time,

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Speaker 1: and it took that gun, took a look at it,

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Speaker 1: called in some reinforcements, and when the police were there,

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Speaker 1: staged when that person arrived back on scene and they

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Speaker 1: took that man into custody. And we have since learned

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Speaker 1: that that man is Howell Emmanuel Donaldson, the third who

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Speaker 1: also goes by Trey, and that gun matched all for

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Speaker 1: murder scenes here in Seminal Tight Late that evening, after

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Speaker 1: taking him into custody, that man, Howell Donaldson was charged

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Speaker 1: with four counts of murder in the first degree. Also

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Speaker 1: in the parking lot, the police officers found a vehicle

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Speaker 1: in the trunk there was a hoodie that appeared to

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Speaker 1: be very similar to a hoodie that was seen in

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Speaker 1: that first surveillance video. Drops of blood were found on

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Speaker 1: that footie, possibly another clue to link this person to

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Speaker 1: the crimes. Means we know that this man he is

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Speaker 1: a local. He was a basketball player for a local

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Speaker 1: high school. He then went on to complete college in

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Speaker 1: New York. Um appeared at least in his social media

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Speaker 1: account to be someone who was very driven, perhaps very intelligent.

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Speaker 1: But he was working at a McDonald's here uh in

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Speaker 1: twenty four years old. Again how donald Donaldson the third Um.

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Speaker 1: He is now charged with those four counts of murder,

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Speaker 1: and Tampa police are confident that this is the person

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Speaker 1: that's been uh murdering these nice folks here in Seminal Heights. UM.

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Speaker 1: So far, no one in Seminal Heights knows him. Um.

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Speaker 1: He claimed in the arrest report that he has no

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Speaker 1: link to Seminal Heights. Uh. He lists an address here

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Speaker 1: in Tampa, his parents addressed about ten to fifty miles

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Speaker 1: away from Seminal Nights. But the big clue is what

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Speaker 1: we've all been waiting for, and it's that gun. Another

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Speaker 1: another interesting note here is that the gun was purchased

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Speaker 1: on October three here in Tampa. He picked up that

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Speaker 1: gun on October seventh. The first murder Benjamin Mitchell. That

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Speaker 1: first murder was committed on October night, just two days

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Speaker 1: for when that gun was purchased and picked up. Joining

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Speaker 1: me on the scene there in Seminole Heights is w

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Speaker 1: f L A t v S Meredith Sinceulo, and also

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Speaker 1: joining me is Joe Scott Morgan Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor

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Speaker 1: Forensics at Jacksonville State University. What is so miraculous to

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Speaker 1: me is the way that this unfolded, the chance, the

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Speaker 1: unlikelihood that this would happen, because what we know happened

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Speaker 1: is that the guy now under arrest he is a

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Speaker 1: graduate at St. John's University in Queens, New York. He

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Speaker 1: was enrolled there in two thousand eleven. Is a walk

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Speaker 1: on member of the school's basketball team. Says the school program,

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Speaker 1: it's amazing. And the employee that happened to crack this case,

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Speaker 1: as Meredith Cinseulo told us, an employee at McDonald's his

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Speaker 1: name is Peebo Johnson, says that he was working in

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Speaker 1: the grill station when a man walked into the restaurant

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Speaker 1: carrying a book bag. The man asked the manager to

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Speaker 1: hold the bag while he went to catch a check,

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Speaker 1: but he said, don't look inside. Well, of course, the

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Speaker 1: first thing you're gonna do is look inside. The female

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Speaker 1: manager looked anyway, She found the gun and called police.

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Speaker 1: When the man came back, Officers swarmed the scene, got

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Speaker 1: him to the ground, and as Meredith Sinceulo is reporting,

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Speaker 1: police now believe that the deaths of four people are connected.

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Speaker 1: They're not saying why, but clearly Meredith is right. It

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Speaker 1: has to do with the ballistics. And the reason I

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Speaker 1: say that this is so miraculous Joe's got Morgan. The

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Speaker 1: reason I say this is so miraculous is you would

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Speaker 1: never have suspected this guy to be a serial killer.

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Speaker 1: We don't have any type of a motive. But also

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Speaker 1: what's so miraculous is the way he was caught really

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Speaker 1: by chance. Yeah, he was caught by chance, Nancy. And

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Speaker 1: what's really great about this is that this is demonstive

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Speaker 1: of how the community just came together. Everybody had their

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Speaker 1: eyes opened. The police have been pushing this for a

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Speaker 1: while and I'm sure that this worker when in this

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Speaker 1: area when they were handed a bag contained a gun

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Speaker 1: alarm bells went off in their head because this is

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Speaker 1: in front of them, day after day after day. As

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Speaker 1: the Tampa Mayor, Bob Butckcorn said, the battle between darkness

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Speaker 1: and light light has won, and that just really struck

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Speaker 1: a chord in me. For those of you just joined us,

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Speaker 1: the man believed to be responsible for four deadly shootings

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Speaker 1: in the Tampa area Seminole Heights, has been detained. All

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Speaker 1: by chance. Police get a tip about a guy in

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Speaker 1: McDonald's with a book bag that has a gun in it.

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Speaker 1: They converge on the scene. It's at McDonald's and Tampa's

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Speaker 1: Ibor City. I've been there many many times in Ibor,

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Speaker 1: and it turns out to be they think the Tampa

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Speaker 1: serial killer. Marida Cincelo joining me on the scene and

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Speaker 1: Seminole heis w f L A correspondent, Meredith, what more

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Speaker 1: can you tell us? It just seems so surreal that

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Speaker 1: this is how he is caught, Very surreal. From all accounts.

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Speaker 1: This man comes from a very good family locally in Tampa.

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Speaker 1: There was no indication leading up to this, at least

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00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 1: from the people that have come forward so far, who

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00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: may have paid back at ball with him in high school,

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Speaker 1: nothing to indicate that this would be that person. However,

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Speaker 1: if you look at social media accounts which have since

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Speaker 1: been locked down, he went by trigger Ty the nicknames

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Speaker 1: apparently that he gave himself trigger this and trigger that

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Speaker 1: he had given him self this name. Are you saying

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Speaker 1: in a gun? Trigger? That's the way that he presented this.

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Speaker 1: On his social media accounts, at least one of them,

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Speaker 1: he called himself Trey because he was Donaldson the third,

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Speaker 1: so he gave himself this nickname Trey, and at least

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Speaker 1: on his Instagram account, he was going by Trigger Trey. Um.

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Speaker 1: That account is now locked down, as are all of

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Speaker 1: his other social media accounts. But as I mentioned, they

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Speaker 1: have trade that gun. There is a receipt for the gun,

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Speaker 1: uh and he picked it up just two days before

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Speaker 1: this first murder, So that that in itself is very interesting. Also,

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Speaker 1: in the vehicle that we mentioned at McDonald's, they actually

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Speaker 1: found a box of ammunition, and that ammunition does match

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Speaker 1: ammunition found at the crime scenes. Right now, major break

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Speaker 1: in the case. Tampa police say they have in custody

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Speaker 1: a twenty four year old college grad in connection with

426
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: four fatal shootings. This guy eluding authorities and gripping the

427
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: Tampa area in fear, especially the Seminal Heights and neighborhood

428
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: charging documents being crafted right now against Howell Emanuel Donaldson

429
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: the third And you know in Florida they're not afraid

430
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,239
Speaker 1: of giving you the death penalty. I can tell you

431
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: that right now. I want you to listen to what

432
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: the mayor had to say. You know, one days ago

433
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: I said this was a struggle between good and evil. Well, tonight,

434
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: goodness is one tonight in the battle between darkness and light.

435
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Speaker 1: Light has won. Tonight is the beginning of when justice

436
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Speaker 1: will be served and then the process will occur when

437
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: this individual rots and health TPD did their job, the

438
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: troopers did their job, f DLI did their job, the

439
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: FBI did their job, Seminal Heights did their job, and

440
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: tonight we're bringing someone to justice who doesn't deserve the

441
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: right to walk amongst us. I want to pause and

442
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: thank our partner who is making our program and our

443
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Speaker 1: search for the Tampa serial killer possible Circle Circle with Disney.

444
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445
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446
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Speaker 1: talk parent to parent. You know, we all know the

447
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448
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Speaker 1: That's not the way we grew up. But there are

450
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451
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452
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453
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455
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456
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Speaker 1: But there's an answer. It's Circle with Disney. It's a

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458
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459
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460
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462
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463
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464
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465
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466
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467
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468
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505
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506
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Speaker 1: but thank you for being our sponsor today on Syria

507
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: Sex and One, a teen girl, Sintia Brown, a sex

508
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: trafficking victim who endured unspeakable abuse, beatings, molestation, all sorts

509
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: of humiliation as a child, literally a child trafficking victim

510
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: ends up behind bars? Well, whoa wait a minute, how

511
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: does the girl end up behind bars? That's what I

512
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: want to know, and believe it or not as much

513
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: as people mock Kim Kardashian and others, she has actually

514
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: Sixtra lawyers on this case to help the girl. Really,

515
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: you know what? Because of that, I think I can

516
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: endure one more Kanye song. Straight out to Alexas drest

517
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: Chuck with the very latest Alexas joining us from Radar

518
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: Online dot Com. Alexis, you know, after I met the

519
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: Kardashians when I was doing Dancing with the Stars, I

520
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: very rarely say a bad word about them because they

521
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: were very, very nice and friendly and believe it or not,

522
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: very low key and maybe it was all a big act,

523
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: but I was out there from August till Thanksgiving to

524
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: the bitter end, and it never changed. They were that

525
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: way every time I was around them, and they were

526
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: that was because they were coming to see Rob Kardashian,

527
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: who was dancing, remember, and that's how why they were

528
00:31:55,040 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: showing up at all the rehearsals and the events. And um,

529
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: I can't remember what charity he gave his money to

530
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: I know mine went to NIGMA National Center for Missing

531
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: Exported Children. So having known them then I very rarely

532
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: will find anything bad to say. They're just making money.

533
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: They're just a squirrel trying to get a nut. Right now,

534
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: I've got to say I think a lot more of

535
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: her now that she has sick for lawyers, high profile lawyers,

536
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: by the way to work on this case of this

537
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: little girl. Let's get to the heart of this. Alexis

538
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: Terres Chuck Radar online dot com. Tell me about Centuria.

539
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: What happened? Why is the victim behind bars? So Centuria

540
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: was a young teenager, fifteen year old runaway. She somehow

541
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: unfortunately got captured for lack of a better word, by

542
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: a pimp named Cutthroat. He okay, wait, wait, wait wait wait,

543
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: slow it down. Okay. Now, at age fifteen, I was

544
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: still riding my bike around the neighborhood and we're just,

545
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: you know, be in the backyard practice saying the somersaults

546
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: and cart Will's as blitz, trying to do a cheer

547
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: and um, I wasn't totally convinced that Santa was not

548
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: real at age fifteen. Now this girl who is just

549
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: turned fifteen and I'm sure there was a reason. She

550
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: was a runaway gets kidnapped by a pimp. And it

551
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: happens all the time right here. I pooh pooed human

552
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: trafficking until I met with human trafficking experts. It's real runaways.

553
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: Get let me just say enslaved. They do right here

554
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: in America. So this girl fifteen, he should be practicing

555
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: her cheers or reading her English homework, is on the streets.

556
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: What happens exactly? He does. His name was Cutthroat. He

557
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: kidnaps her, He drugs her, he be pleasant with drugs.

558
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: He sexually abuses her, and he pimps her out. He

559
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: turns her into a sex safe. He hires her out

560
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: to men. They're gonna pay to abuse her. Wait wait, Alexis,

561
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: hold on you. I'm drinking from a fire hydrant here.

562
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: It's just too much. So she's just turned fifteen, she's

563
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: a runaway. She gets kidnapped by a pimp, which is

564
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: easy enough to do, to kidnap a kid. I've prosecuted.

565
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 1: She had no one, no one to fight for her.

566
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: Alexis literally prosecuted a set of three pimps that got

567
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: a runaway girl. She was thirteen and turned her into

568
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: a prostitute. She was Alexis, and I still remember the moment.

569
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 1: I've been working the streets trying to find this girl

570
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: for over a month with three cops from Vice. I

571
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: never even went into my office. I went straight to

572
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: the street every day and it was cold, and I

573
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: remember I had this horrible, thin little coat. That's all

574
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: I could afford as a prosecutor. And I was out

575
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: looking for this girl. And they said, and finally we

576
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: had been out for about three and a half weeks,

577
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: every day, and then when we think we got her,

578
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: get the car. I got in the car. We went

579
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: to some flop house. We got there, we went in

580
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: and there were several ladies sitting around. I went back.

581
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, she's not in there. Why are we here?

582
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: They went, that's her sitting on the bed. I went

583
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,959
Speaker 1: back in. Alexis. She had long weave and her hair,

584
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: high heeled boots, false eyelashes, the work she was. She's

585
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: thirty five years old. She was thirteen, Alexis, to rest check,

586
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 1: this happens. It happens, and then she gets sold out

587
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 1: to man after man after man after man after man.

588
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: What happens that pimp ends up selling her permanently. He

589
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: gives her to a man who enslaves her in his home. So,

590
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: after he sold her to hundreds, baby even thousands of men,

591
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: and he gives her to one person and she has

592
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: no recourse, She has nothing that she can say or do.

593
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: She has no one that she can go to to

594
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: help her. So he sells her to this man who's

595
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: forty three years old, and he was actually a real

596
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: estate agent. He's okay, White a minute, White a minute,

597
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Alexis Torres Chuck write our online dot com

598
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 1: Hold on. Dr Brian Russell was with me not only

599
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: a psychologist but also a lawyer and host of investigation

600
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: Discoveries Fatal Vows, which is an awesome program. Brian, Dr Brian,

601
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 1: how does the forty three year old man who has

602
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: a job in a life? I think it's okay to

603
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,439
Speaker 1: buy a fifteen year old girl and keep her locked

604
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: up in the house and have sex with her. How

605
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: does that happen? I don't think there's any rational explanation

606
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: for it. Nancy, It's absolutely disgusting. Okay, the story just

607
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: keeps getting worse. Go ahead, Alexis, So this man buys

608
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: her from her pimp. She is now sixteen years old, teenager,

609
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: and he keeps her enslaved in his home again, sexually

610
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: assaulting her, keeping her tied up. He will not let

611
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: her leave, she says. She realizes when she gets in

612
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: this home that it is filled with guns, just an

613
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: arsenal of weapons, and she is terrified. All this time,

614
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: all these bad things that have been having to her,

615
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: she now is afraid because she sees all these guns,

616
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: that this man is going to kill her. She finally

617
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: has enough. He has raped her, he has enslaved her.

618
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,439
Speaker 1: She and let me just remind everybody, UH actually will

619
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: caught with me. Alexis number one. I'm sorry. I went

620
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: round and round with John David half the night with Alexa,

621
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: so I'm just saying it. I can't starve myself. I'm sorry. Okay,

622
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: I've known you for many, many years. I know your

623
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: name is Alex Toss Chuck, but I keep saying Alexa,

624
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: and I can't stop my stuff. It's okay. Ashley Wilcott

625
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: is with me, a high profile lawyer out of the

626
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction and renowned child advocate. Ashley, what okay did

627
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: I miss something? She shoots the guy. That's been raping her. Now,

628
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: remember a lot of people would argue that was consensual.

629
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: A child cannot have consensual sex. That's right, that's right,

630
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: impossible under the law. That's right. Now. It's just it's crazy,

631
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 1: isn't it. It's she's a victim. And here's the problem

632
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: we have in our child welfare system and with society

633
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: is people think that they are criminals, that it's prostitution,

634
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: that they're stealing the guns and taking things from this man,

635
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 1: and it's all crime related. Bottom line, she's a victim.

636
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: She's endured many multiple traumas that have even changed her brain. Science.

637
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: She's a victim. She's not the criminal. But our system

638
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: is not yet caught up to what we know um

639
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: based on a lot of different scientific research, to say

640
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: this is a victim. She does not need to go

641
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: to jail. She needs treatment, she needs help, not jail.

642
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: If these facts are true, which I have no reason

643
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: to doubt. The facts that Alexis to res Chuck is

644
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: like spinning out for me. And all of this is

645
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: court record. All of this It was in the court

646
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: record when she came up on charges of murder. Okay,

647
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: go ahead, Alexis to Res Chuck, go ahead. So she

648
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: ends up shooting this man and killing him. Finally, she

649
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: said she was afraid he was going to kill her.

650
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: He has raped her repeatedly, he has held her captive

651
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: in his home. She shoots him. Police come and arrest her,

652
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: and they don't even care about the years of torture

653
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: that she has been subjected to. And she gets prosecuted

654
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: for murder for this man who bought her, who bought

655
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: her from a pimp. She wasn't trying to rob him

656
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 1: or steal anything from him. She was trying a fight

657
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: for her a life, you know. To Joseph Scott Morrigan

658
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: joining me, he's a forensics expert and professor of forensics

659
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: at Jacksonal State University. You know, Joe Scott, I'd like

660
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: to hear you weigh in on this. You know, Nancy,

661
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: I've been looking over this case now forbid and it

662
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: seems as though to me that the system in general

663
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: failed this child. And she was a child when all

664
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 1: of this occurred. She's been taken against her will, held

665
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: essentially imprisoned with this guy. He's been abusing her. I

666
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: would think that just the physical changes in her person

667
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,919
Speaker 1: could have been demonstrative of what she was undergoing during

668
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: this period of time. And I'm really curious as to

669
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: why the prosecution would move forward on a case like

670
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: this without really really digging deep into this thing. Also,

671
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: they put forward this idea that this child who was

672
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: born to a mother that drank incessantly, the idea has

673
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: been brought up that she might be suffering from from uh,

674
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: developmental alcohol ingestion syndrome. Uh, you're talking about fetal alcohol.

675
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: Syna drank heavily while she was pregnant, and I learned

676
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: that from There was a PBS Public Broadcasting System documentary

677
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: called Me Facing Life, Cynthia's Story and it tells Centoria's story.

678
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: And then just recently, um, there was another special on

679
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: it um from Fox seventeen News and it just aired,

680
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: and I think that's what what got Kim Kardashian going

681
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: on this. And of course, uh, we also know Rihanna

682
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: has jumped on the bandwagon, and you know what, the

683
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: more the merrier to bring on justice. What were you saying,

684
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Yeah, one of one of the you can

685
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: see physical manifestations and people uh that that suffer from

686
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: this condition. But there's also issues that have come up,

687
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: you know where they talk about the impulse control and

688
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. So it's a powder keg. You

689
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 1: have a person who is in fear of their life. Uh,

690
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: they're they're being sequestered, held against their will. Uh. She

691
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: sees an opportunity for freedom here, and she takes the

692
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: obvious choice. This guy is probably threatening to kill her.

693
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of defense was put up

694
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: for her. And uh, finally, you know, the key that

695
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: unlocked the door for her was a forty caliber round

696
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: that killed this guy. And uh, and she's free in

697
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: that sense from him. But now she's been placed into

698
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: a prison system that, as you well know Nancy, is

699
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: very unforgiving. So, as it stands right now, to Dr

700
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 1: Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, host of Investigation Discoveries Fatal Vows,

701
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: as it stands right now, this girl will not be

702
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: eligible for parole until she is sixty nine years old.

703
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: I mean it's like this kid, well she's not a

704
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: kid anymore, but this girl never had a chance from

705
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: the get go. Dr Brian Okay, So I absolutely sympathize

706
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: with this girl tremendously for everything that she went through.

707
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: And I certainly have no sympathy at all for the

708
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,959
Speaker 1: deceased in this case. But at the risk I knew

709
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: there was gonna be a butt. I could tell. But

710
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: you know, I learned that Ashley. Isn't it true? As

711
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: she will caught When the judge starts talking, you can

712
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 1: always tell there's gonna be a butt, absolute rule for you.

713
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 1: And they start saying, well, you know, Ms Grace, you've

714
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: put up quite a you know, convincing blah blah blah.

715
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: You know there's gonna be a butt. They always have

716
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: a butt when they start off like that, don't like,

717
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: isn't that true? She will caught it? And it's true.

718
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: I'm on the bench and it's very true. That's how

719
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: we present it. Okay, go ahead, Brian Russell, get ready

720
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: to tangle. Okay. So, at the risk of being the

721
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 1: turn in the punch bowl here this morning, I saw

722
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,720
Speaker 1: that saying I'm pretty sure you stole that from me. Okay,

723
00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: go ahead. You know, there are essentially two states of

724
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: mind in our system that a person can be in

725
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 1: that enable the person to kill someone else and and

726
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,280
Speaker 1: be excused for it. And those two states of mind

727
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: are either you are in fear of eminent death or

728
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: or severe bodily harm at the hands of the person

729
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: you kill, or you are so mentally out of it

730
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: that you either don't know what you're doing or you

731
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: can't distinguish you're incapable of distinguishing legal from illegal. So

732
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: we have to go back now, I think it's thirteen

733
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 1: years and just remember the fact that a jury at

734
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: that time concluded that neither one of those two states

735
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 1: of mind applied to this young woman at the time.

736
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 1: And we have to also keep in mind that neither

737
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: past trauma nor things like fetal alcohol syndrome. While we

738
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: sympathize with those all of us, do I know they

739
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 1: do not generally render somebody into either one of those

740
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: two mental states. So, yes, we need to take another

741
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: look at this case. But I think we have to

742
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: remember that that, you know, sometimes the story that we

743
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 1: hear several years after a conviction from somebody is a

744
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: little bit different than the story that the jurors heard originally,

745
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 1: And so I'm always a little hesitant to conclude that

746
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 1: a unanimous group of jurors was just nuts thirteen years ago. Well,

747
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 1: I gotta agree with you, Dr Brian russell Um. Look

748
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: as much as the law may taste bitter as it's

749
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 1: going down, it is the law. Now. Unless she was

750
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: acting in self defense, and now we are hearing this

751
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: guy was reaching for a gun. If that was true,

752
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: then this would be self defense. If not, she would

753
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: have the argument of just like a battered woman would

754
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: have the argument of the batter woman's syndrome, which very

755
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: often carries the day. Or she would have a voluntary

756
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: manslaughter charge of provocation or heat of passion anger and

757
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: the heat of passion of being molested. Those would be

758
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: her defenses. There are two of them. One self defense

759
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,959
Speaker 1: if he were really reaching for a gun at the time,

760
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: or two. There's no such thing as a snap defense.

761
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: But there is the battered woman's defense, where you have

762
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: been abused and abused and abused and then you act.

763
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: That is kind of like a diminished capacity, and I

764
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: think that would probably be her best bet. So while

765
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: she would be culpable for the shooting, under Dr Brian

766
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 1: Russell's legal theory, she would have probably already gotten out

767
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: by Now, what wouldn't you think, alexis to rest, Chuck?

768
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,959
Speaker 1: I mean, you have investigated this case thoroughly. She was convicted,

769
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 1: and if she had gone with a diminished capacity like

770
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: Battered Women's Defense. Um, she would have already been out,

771
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: but now she's not even subject to parole n till

772
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: she's sixty nine. No, she has You're exactly right, she

773
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: has fifty years. But the thing is that research has

774
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: changed in the last thirteen years, and in cases that

775
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: I've covered recently, like the girl the teen texting case

776
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: where she encouraged her boyfriend to kill himself and she

777
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: was found guilty by the judge, he said he really

778
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: studied the research that had been given to him, which

779
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: showed that teenager's brains are just not fully developed, which

780
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: is why he did not throw the book at her.

781
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: So if thirteen years ago this research wasn't available, and

782
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: so now people could go back. And that's why Kim

783
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: Kardashian comes in. She has asked her high power lawyer,

784
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,720
Speaker 1: Sean Chapman Holly. She was part of O. J. Simpson's

785
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: defense team. She was Lindsay Lohan's defense attorney. She knows

786
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: how to work a case, and she's asked her to

787
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: go in and try to help this girl who was

788
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: just sixteen years when the crime happened, so that there

789
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: there could be new evidence things. They could change the

790
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: way that people look at how brains of teenagers. Just

791
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: follow up Alexis with some research that I had found

792
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: when she was just sixteen, There's no doubt sin Torria

793
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: Brown got into a pickup truck on Murfrey's Boro Pike

794
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: with a stranger, drove to his home, got in bed

795
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: with him, and shot him in the back of the

796
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: head with the forty caliber. Now, according to this transcript,

797
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: as he lay naked beside her, she states she did

798
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: it and that she quote executed him. However, she says

799
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: she believed the man who picked her up was reaching

800
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: for his gun when she killed him. Now that's a

801
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: different story from her being tied up and held prisoner

802
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 1: in somebody's home, although that could have happened with the pimp.

803
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: Um the the issue in my mind, the pimp sold

804
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: her to this man, is what she said. That's what

805
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 1: she says, But a different transcript says she just got

806
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: in his truck, went home with him and killed him

807
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 1: that day. That those are the two conflicting stories. What

808
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: is concerning me is sentencing young people to lie behind bars,

809
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: and I think that brings into our purview all the

810
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 1: other things we're talking about her upbringing and the field

811
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 1: alcohol syndrome. Long story short, when you were sixteen and

812
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: you shoot somebody dead, you can be treated like an

813
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 1: adult like she was. I think what we need now

814
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: is the truth about what really happened, as she willcott.

815
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: When you hear this, this version of the facts, does

816
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: it change anything? Well, I do think it changes things

817
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 1: because you certainly the law is the law, and a court,

818
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: a judge and a jury they have to apply the

819
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 1: law to the facts, and so it is a little

820
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: bit different when you hear those facts. But I also

821
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 1: agree the research has changed drastically in the last thirteen years,

822
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: and there is very critical work being done in the

823
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: state of Georgia by attorneys who are appealing cases in

824
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: which juveniles are sentenced to life sentences because it is

825
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: the equivalent of a death penalty for a juvenile. Right,

826
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: they're never going to get out, They're gonna sit in jail,

827
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: it's the equivalent, and they are having some life. There's

828
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: also actually life versus life without parole, yes, which is

829
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: now put on it, but life you could get out

830
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: as early as sevent to ten years. Sure, that is

831
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 1: is what I know. We don't know all the facts yet,

832
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: but whatever they are, I do believe an investigation is

833
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: in order to determine exactly what happened, what was said

834
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: at trial versus what her story is now if they

835
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: are different, and what sentence she really deserves. I want

836
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: to pause very briefly and thank our partner who's making

837
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: our investigation into the story of Centauria Brown possible. Today

838
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: it's legal Zoom. As business owners out there, you know

839
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,439
Speaker 1: how important is you've gotta keep moving forward, but so

840
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: often things come up to take your time and focus

841
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: away from growing your business. When it comes to issues

842
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: like reviewing contracts, registering trademarks, stay current on permits, fees, contracts, hiring.

843
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,480
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844
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,439
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845
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:43,840
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846
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:48,080
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847
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Speaker 1: system confidently. Best part, you don't have to wake up

848
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