1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to How To Citizen with Baritone Day, a show 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: where we reimagine the word citizen as a verb, reclaim 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: it from those who weaponized it, and remind ourselves how 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: to wield our collective power. Democracy means people power. Literally, 5 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: I just want to talk with you for a minute, 6 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: just me and you. I owe you a definition before 7 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: we head too far on this journey together. And yeah, 8 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: I know you thought this was like a podcast or 9 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: a show, but it's a journey and we're gonna go places. 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: That journey is called How to Citizen with Baritone Day. 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: I'm the Bartune Day. There's a definition there. But on 12 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: the citizen front, I need you to understand what we 13 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: are not. We are not interested in your legal status, 14 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: and we have a concept of what it means to 15 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: citizen that goes far are beyond voting, as important as 16 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: that is. We think there are four parts to what 17 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: it means to citizen. First two, citizen is to participate. 18 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: It's a verb, not a noun, not an adjective. It's 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: to show up, all right. Number two two citizen is 20 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: to value the collective and to work towards outcomes that 21 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: benefit the many and not just the few. Number three 22 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,919 Speaker 1: to citizen is to understand power and the various ways 23 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: we have at our disposal to use it. And number 24 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: four to citizen is to invest in relationships with others 25 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: and recognize our interconnectedness. This definition of what it means 26 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: to Citizen is going to serve us throughout the series. Participate, 27 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: value the collective, understand power, and invest in relationships. In 28 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: this episode, we are going to talk about power. A 29 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: quick word on how we make this show. We've recorded 30 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: most of this episode in front of a live studio audience. Okay, 31 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: it with zoom. It was a live Zoom audience, but 32 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: that doesn't take nothing away from nothing, because zoom is 33 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: everything now when it counts. In the taping, you'll hear 34 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: me tell a short story, hold a conversation with our 35 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 1: featured guests, then open the floor to questions from the audience. 36 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: I would love for you to join a future live taping, 37 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: and you can do that by visiting how to citizen 38 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: dot com. Join my email list where those invites live. 39 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: And also some pretty dope content I send out on 40 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: a weekly basis. If I might brag a little bit, 41 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: I send the best emails. And while I love the 42 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: live audience, don't worry. It's just me and you right now. Remember, 43 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna catch up with just you on the 44 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: other side, and I'm gonna give you some very specific 45 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: ways to sit as in not just principles actions. I 46 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: want to start with a story from high school, specifically 47 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: a classroom in my high school where I have some 48 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 1: distinct memories. This room was on the first floor, had 49 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: giant floor to ceiling glass windows, really well lit, and 50 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: the first memory I have is actually a video games 51 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 1: because my friends and I would wheel in this a 52 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: V cart with a giant TV on top to play 53 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: video games during off periods. It was a really unused 54 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: room and afternoons we played a lot of Madden. My 55 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: second memory from this room is of breaking in to 56 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: the school through this room. I spent a lot of 57 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: time on campus. I was part of the high school newspaper, 58 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: had a lot of excuses to be there after hours, 59 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: and one time I locked myself out of the building 60 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: had to get something back inside, and I knew that 61 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: these little hinged windows at the base of the wall 62 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: in this room would me into the building. So I'm 63 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: scrambling through this window and I heard this voice Mr Barratuna, 64 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: is that you, Mr Barretuna, is that you? And that 65 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: was the voice of the head of security for the school, Mr. Ford. Fortunately, 66 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: I had a great relationship with him because I haven't 67 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: advised early on the first thing you do in an 68 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: institution like this you make friends with the cleaning staff. 69 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: You make friends with the security staff. They might help 70 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: you get out of a jam later on. And that's 71 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: what happened. Because he didn't see some random black kid 72 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: breaking into a predominantly white institution in a predominantly white 73 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 1: and wealthy neighborhood in Washington, d C. He saw an idiot. 74 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: He saw the idiot that he knew, Barrattuna, and he 75 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: gave me the benefit of the doubt, let me inside 76 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: through proper entry and exit points, and I was able 77 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: to move on. The other memory I have of this room, though, 78 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: is actually a classroom setting a learning environment in Western Sieve, 79 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: the class we called Western City of Western Civilization. The 80 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: teacher wheeled out that a v card with a giant 81 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: at the time television on top, and we were forced 82 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: to watch this VHS of some old school like Socrates, 83 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: Plato Aristotilian looking dude leaning him back in his white robe, 84 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: with his white beard and his bald white head like 85 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: a lot of white saying something profound and grave. He said, 86 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: how should men live? And we were just supposed to 87 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: react to that question like, yo, that's the question, that's 88 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: the ones in future question to end all questions, like 89 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: how do we organize our society? How do we share power? 90 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: Have a voice, govern ourselves? And it was Aristotle who 91 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: gave us a simple framework for this. You got ruled 92 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: by the one, tyrany boom, ruled by the few, oligarchy, 93 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: still boo, ruled by the many. Democracy, yay. And we're 94 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: supposed to celebrate that idea and that word, which literally 95 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: breaks down in the Greek origin two people power. Being 96 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: a citizen is exercising power. But when I've been hearing 97 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: these conversations about the crisis of our democracy, about civic engagement, 98 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: about citizenship, I rarely hear the word power being used. Instead, 99 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: I hear a limited version of what we have as 100 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: our power in the society, the power to vote and 101 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: the power to act as individuals, and both of those 102 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: are far too narrow. Voting is mad important, don't get 103 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: me wrong, it's very important, but it's not the whole game. 104 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: And when you really think about it, voting is delegating power. 105 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: We have a lot of energy devoted to giving our 106 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: power over to professional politicians. That's like being asked to 107 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: sign up as a superhero. You're welcome to the Avengers, 108 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: baritune day, you're in the squad. I'm like, what's my superpower? Oh? 109 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: Your superpower? You get to give your power away if 110 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: you're lucky every two years. He's excited about that, Like, 111 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: I'm not that. I feel like you're missing some of 112 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: the point of the superpower. And it's even Hawkeye had 113 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: better powers than that. He got to run around looking 114 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: like a badass, had bow and arrows, ran real fast. 115 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: I might prefer that to just delegation of power. The 116 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: other oversimplification I think we have with our power in 117 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: the system is it's focused on the individual, especially in 118 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: the Western world, one person, one vote, your voice matters. 119 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: But we don't exist alone. We live among other people. 120 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: We only know ourselves as a reflection of the people 121 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: around us, and when we work with others, we multiply 122 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: that power. So what is this whole power thing. It's 123 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: who gets what, when and how, It's who decides that 124 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: now to jump into this conversation with me. We have 125 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: quite a human person. I'm gonna call him a human 126 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: person um. I first met Eric Leu virtually. We had 127 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: been introduced by many different people over the years, but 128 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: we met face to face in a non socially distant 129 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: space at the TED conference in Vancouver, Washington, and he 130 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: was giving a talk about the power of citizenship. I 131 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: was preparing to do my talk but somewhat secretly plotting 132 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: this show, and Eric said, when you're ready to do this, 133 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: reach out, let's talk. So he's one of the first 134 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: people I wanted to talk to about this. Eric is 135 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: the co founder and CEO of Citizen University, literally schooling 136 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: people on what it means to be a citizen. He 137 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: directs the Aspen Institute Citizenship and American Identity Program. He's 138 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: written several books. I feel proud of my one book Home. 139 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: He's got at least three books, The Accidental Asian Notes 140 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: of a Native Speaker, The Gardens of Democracy, You're More 141 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: Powerful than you think, A Citizen's Guide to make him 142 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: change happen, and actually a fourth one, more recently, Become 143 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: America Civic Sermons on love, responsibility, and democracy. Eric has 144 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: been in the game for a while. He wrote speeches 145 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: for Bill Clinton. He was a White House policy advisor. 146 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: He's been on the boy Words of the Washington State 147 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: Board of Education, and near and due to my heart, 148 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: the Seattle Public Library, because libraries rock. Eric Lou, welcome 149 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: to how this citizen. Thank you for being here with y. 150 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: It's so great to be with you. I just just 151 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: love your whole framding this whole thing and looking forward 152 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: to this conversation. Where are you joining us from, Eric, 153 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: and how are you right now? I'm joining you from Seattle, Washington, 154 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 1: which is where I live. I'm joining you more specifically 155 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: from my mom's condo because, to be real, I'm spending 156 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: a lot of energy help and take care of her 157 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: through some health challenges. So that's where I'm at. Yeah, Well, 158 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: my best to you and your mom. I'm glad you're 159 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: able to be close to her and help take care 160 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: of her. That's kind of what this is all about. It. 161 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: I looked through, and our team looked through a lot 162 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: of your work. It was more prolific and profound than 163 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: even understood when I met you at ted, So thank 164 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: you for your contributions to this whole question of what 165 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: it means to be a citizen. I want to talk 166 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: with you more about this idea of power, because you 167 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: have spoken and written and I think behaved in a 168 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 1: way that elevates the idea of literacy about power, and 169 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: so much of the literacy that I think we are 170 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: encouraged to pursue is literal right learning, how to read, 171 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: consuming information, be informed, know the news. But you talk 172 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: about power literacy, What is power to you? And what 173 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: do you think we need to understand about it in 174 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: the context of being a citizen in something that's at 175 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: least like a democracy. You know, such a great set 176 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: of connected questions, and you know, I start with just 177 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: in the first place, um, unpacking what we mean in 178 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: my organization, Citizen University, when we even talk about citizen 179 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: or citizenship, Right, So, how does citizen the name of 180 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: this show, Um, we think of citizenship not in terms 181 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: of documentation status and passport holding. We mean it in 182 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: the broader ethical sense of being a member of the body, 183 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: a contributor to community. Right, in a word, a non sociopath. Right, 184 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: which which seems like a low bar, but actually we 185 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: all around us is evidence that there are a lot 186 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: of people can't get over that bar right now, right. So, 187 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: but in that broader ethical sense, and when we think 188 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: about it in those terms, we often use this very 189 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: simple mock equation, which is that power plus character equal citizenship. 190 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: That that to live like a citizen in the steepest 191 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: way is both to be fluent in power, um, and 192 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: I'll unpack that in a moment, but also to couple 193 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: that fluency in power with a grounding in what you 194 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: might think of a civic character, which I don't mean 195 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 1: like personal individual virtue like work hard and you know, persevere, 196 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: I mean the social virtues of how do you live 197 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: in public, how do you behave in community? How do 198 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: you hold together a community? Right? So, those two has 199 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: of the equation are super important. And one of the 200 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 1: things that really struck us in our work is that, 201 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: considering we're new democracy, considering that theoretically, as you say, 202 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: we have the power, we the people, most people are 203 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: profoundly illiterate in power. Most people do not think about it, 204 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: do not want to talk about it, do not want 205 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: to name it. To the extent that it comes up. 206 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: It seems like it's a kind of a dirty word, 207 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: a dirty topic. Right, It's all conniving and it's Game 208 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: of Thrones in House of Cards kind of stuff, right, 209 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: Power brokers, brokers, power trip, you know power, you know, 210 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: power mad, power hungry. All the connotations are negative, right, 211 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: And our most basic thing that we try to teach 212 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: in our work is that power is simply I mean, 213 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: it just is. It's like fire, right, It's neither inherently 214 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: good nor evil. And just because fire can be put 215 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: to bad use doesn't mean that you should just turn 216 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:37,719 Speaker 1: away and put your head in the sand, not think 217 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: about ways that it could be put to good use. Right, 218 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: And so it is with power and civic life. We 219 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: define power really simply, which is a capacity to ensure 220 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: that others do as you would like them to do. Yo, 221 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: that sounds I mean that sounds like power, like to 222 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: make other people it ensure that others do you would like. 223 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: Now that sounds super messing and right, and people like 224 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: whoa whoa like? But let's be real in every scale 225 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: of our lives, right, I'm not talking about voting and protesting. 226 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: I mean like you and the people you love, you 227 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: and your workmates, you and your neighbors. We as humans 228 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: are always trying to get other people to do as 229 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: we would like them to do right, and that is 230 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: just what we're wired to want to be able to 231 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: do in the world. And that capacity, when applied to 232 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: questions of common interest and common consequence public concern, is 233 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: civic power. UM. I think the central question of all 234 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: civic power is this who decides right? And so when 235 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: we talk about literacy or illiteracy in power, what that 236 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: boils down to is that most people have no freaking 237 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: idea who decides on anything right. So there are most 238 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: people answer the question with a default they. I can't 239 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: believe they decided to start school in person or start 240 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: school online. I can't believe they cancel bus service. I 241 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: can't believe they haven't yet built a grocery store in 242 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: this food desert. I can't believe they whatever right and 243 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: they don't want you to X. And the fundamental lesson 244 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 1: that we teach US cities the university, but I think 245 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: the fundamental teaching of democracy itself is there is no they, 246 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: they is weak right, And we have an obligation to 247 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: actually get particular about in each case, well, who does 248 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: the deciding and how can I actually insert myself into 249 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: that map of who does the deciding? Right? UM? That 250 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: is a literacy, just like reading and writing. Who decided 251 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: that these kinds of protests happening in cities around the 252 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: United States right now would be met by unmarked federal agents? 253 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: Right they decided? Maybe Trump decided, you know, maybe some 254 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: people who pay attention to the news. Maybe Attorney General 255 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: bar decided, okay, yeah, But really, like when you boil 256 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: it down, who decided that? Who can stop that? How 257 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: do you mobilize people? Ideas money forced to resist that? Right? 258 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: And I think questions like that that are not just theoretical, 259 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: they are live in every community in the country right now. 260 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: All turned on this question of who decides? And that 261 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: is the heart of civic power. Why do you think power, 262 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: the term and the literacy of it has been absent 263 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: from so much conversation about civic engagement and our role. 264 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: I think there's two reasons. One is democracy and civics 265 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: gets taught, if it gets taught anymore at all. But 266 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: to the extent that still does get taught. Teachers in 267 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: our more polarized, controversy filled age do not want to 268 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: get in trouble. They do not want to go there, right, 269 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: so there's an often an instinct to go to the 270 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: lowest common denominator, talk about the process stuff how bill 271 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: becomes a law, but not talk about the structure stuff 272 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: that precedes process. Right, Well, who gets to decide how 273 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: Bill becomes a law? Uh? Well people in the Senate, well, 274 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: and people in the House. Well, why because the constitution will? 275 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: Why because a group of people made a deep set 276 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: of compromises with slaveholders about who was going to have power, 277 00:15:55,400 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: and say, okay, so that's how Bill becomes a law. Right. 278 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: They don't want to go there, right, And and yeah, 279 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: it's not in a little animated cute thing from the 280 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: exactly right. And I think the deeper question, apart from 281 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: just the you know, allergy to controversy that exists in 282 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: a lot of places, um, is frankly our culture. Right. 283 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: So everything in our small, d democratic culture says, you know, you, barotone, 284 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: you have the power to remake your life, the brand 285 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: of you. You can do this all the time. Right. 286 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: It's the it's the civic equivalent of the economic message 287 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: we get all the time, which is you can pull 288 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: yourself up by your own bootstraps. And if your situation 289 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: isn't great, that's because you suck. That's your problem. Right, 290 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: that's on you, and I think in our culture there's 291 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: this allergy also to talking about collective action, collective responsibility, 292 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: and collective power and how things got rigged the way 293 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: they got rigged and why. Maybe it's not because you're 294 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: lazy or not effective or not smart enough that you 295 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: keep getting smoothed down. Maybe it's because the game has 296 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: been stacked in, rigged against you and people like you 297 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: for generations. Um. I often think about the conversation that 298 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: you and I are having, and the and the whole 299 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: point of your show as part of a greater cause 300 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: right now, which is we've got to make civic sexy again, right, 301 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: civic engagement, you know it just it just forces you 302 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: to not all you make civic sexy again by being 303 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: honest about what it is and what it is. It's 304 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: about power, it's about people claiming power, about people contesting powers. 305 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: Right And and for the same reasons we are drawn 306 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: to Game of Thrones or House of Cards, we ought 307 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 1: to be drawn to participation. Except we're not just spectators now, 308 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: we are participants and we can actually exercise this stuff. 309 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: And that's uh that that's worth learning. There's an irony 310 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: in here that I'm trying to tease out democracy means 311 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: people power, and we use the verb version of that 312 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: word to democratize to indicate the distribution of some good. 313 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: We've democratized access to information, meaning more people have access 314 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: to it. Everything we need and can claim is in 315 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: that word people power. And yet we haven't democratized the 316 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: meaning of the word itself. We have kind of kept 317 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: the deep meaning, the power part of it, and the people, 318 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: the multiple people, not just the person, not the army 319 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: of one inside of you, not brand you. We've buried 320 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: that and we've muted the power and trimmed it down. 321 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: And so we've got to democratize democracy itself, at least 322 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: our interpretation of it. That is so absolutely right. And 323 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: I think part of that is about narrative and culture 324 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: and projects like this show and some of the things 325 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: that we try to do it Citizen University, you know, 326 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: we we have programs that are about not just teaching 327 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: in a workshop way, but creating communal rituals where people 328 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: can come and gather and practice this stuff. But I 329 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: think the other thing that you're really pointing to, again 330 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: back to what we're talking abobout literacy and power, you know, 331 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: I often talk about how there's three laws of power 332 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: that are really worth understanding. Love laws. Here we go, 333 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: so law number one, power compounds, Right, that's as obvious 334 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: as the world we live in right now, Right, the 335 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: world of the one percent or the point one percent 336 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: and everybody else power like interest power, power compounds. Those 337 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: who have will have more, right, those who have not 338 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: will have even less over time. Right, Law number two, 339 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: power justifies itself at every turn. Those who hold power 340 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: will spin elaborate narratives about why this allocation of things 341 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: is the God given way of the world. Right, this 342 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: is just the natural order of things. Uh. And in 343 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: different times that's taken on different casts. But that is 344 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: the backstory of white supremacy. That is the backstory of 345 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: male supremacy. Right. And you might think, oh, well, that's history, 346 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: that's old stuff. You've spent time in Silicon Valley. Silcon 347 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: Valley is a bastion of both white and male supremacy, right, 348 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: And there are storylines about why people who are not 349 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: white or male aren't cut out for this world. The 350 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: narrative trickle down economics is all around us. The idea 351 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: that a few super rich people are capital J, Capital C. 352 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: Job creators, and we shouldn't tax them too much, we 353 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: shouldn't regulate them too much because we want their prosperity 354 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: to leak its way down to the rest of us. Right, 355 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: That's a wonderful fable. But as as economics is complete, bs, right, 356 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: the true source of prosperity is not a few rich 357 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: guys at the top. It's the rest of us. And 358 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: when workers have more money, businesses have more customers. Right, 359 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: that's how you create prosperity. That's a counter narrative to that, right. 360 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: And so if these first two laws of power, that 361 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: power is always compounding into fewer and fewer hands, and 362 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: it's always justifying itself. And those few are telling you 363 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: why you should be happy with the crumbs you've got, 364 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: you being a pretty grim doom loop. Right. What breaks 365 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: us out of that doom loop, though, is law number three. 366 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: Power is infinite. Power is infinite. What I mean by this, 367 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: I'm not you know, you might think, Oh, here's the 368 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: dude from Seattle coming to sell me a new age, 369 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: a new age kind of manifest your power. You know, 370 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: I'm not doing new age stuff. I'm saying this. It 371 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: is in even the most rigged situation, and even those 372 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: unea cool staff situation. It is entirely possible to generate 373 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: brand new power out of thin air through the magic 374 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: act of organizing and generating power at at a thin 375 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: air is the only thing that saves us in a 376 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: democracy that you can actually change that equation right now. 377 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: Of course, incumbent power holders also can generate power thinner, 378 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: and they will counter organized to block you. And this 379 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: you have this perpetual game of organizing, counter organizing, mobilization, 380 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: counter mobilization. You know what. There's a word for that, politics, 381 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: politics and a democracy. Right, that's what we got to do. 382 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: That's our responsibility for showing up right, And there's no 383 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: it's not one and done. It's not oh I organized, 384 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: we fixed it, right. It's a perpetual, never ending thing. 385 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: And if you start relaxing then you will in fact 386 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: see power over time. I think it's it's humbling and 387 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: hopeful at the same time, because we've all felt acted 388 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: upon by power and this thought that there's a cabal somewhere, 389 00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: and sometimes there really is a cabal. Like it's not 390 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: a conspirat those like a pretty small room with a 391 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: bunch of dudes in it making decisions about say the 392 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: borders that will comprise the continent of Africa, for example, 393 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: or tax policies in the United States as another example. 394 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: But I there is hoping to me and the idea 395 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: that we can generated ourselves and that we can kind 396 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: of spin up or accelerate a perpetual motion machine at 397 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: some velocity and some mass to it to get more 398 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: momentum behind our desired allocation of that power. We're living 399 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: through it right now. I mean absolutely, the waves and 400 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: waves of awakening and activism that followed the murder of 401 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: George Floyd Uh and even prior to that, the creativity 402 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: brought to bear in new forms of organizing since the 403 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 1: pandemic hit both of these. There are some tectonic things 404 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: going on in our country right now. Something is shifting, right, 405 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 1: and that shift depends on us not again, not acting 406 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: like Americans often act, which is a short attention spans 407 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: squirrel like what what's the next distraction? Right? And um? 408 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: But actually like, no, persist in practicing power and the 409 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: other piece of it that you were talking about earlier. 410 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: I gotta come back to because remember I said at 411 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: the beginning, we have this equation that citizen university power 412 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: plus character equal citizenship. Right. I gotta say a note 413 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: about the character side of this, Right, Because if all 414 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: you do is get really practice a power and learn 415 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: and figure out ways to move money, move ideas, move people, 416 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, mobilize uh, you know, those who have means 417 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: of force and violence, and it's untethered actually to any 418 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: ethical or moral purpose, then in fact you are just 419 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 1: becoming a finely skilled sociopath, right. Um. And that is 420 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: not what we're that's not what we're trying to cultivate 421 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: in our work. And I know that's not what you're 422 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: you know, that's not how to citizen? Right? How to 423 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: citizen is both coupling that literacy and power with who 424 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: am I doing it for? How am I bringing more 425 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: people into the fold? How do I actually take a 426 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: knee literally and metaphorically for somebody who's not here? Um? 427 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,239 Speaker 1: How do I circulate whatever power privilege I might have, 428 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: um in a way that to actually to the benefit 429 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: of the whole. And how do I change the narrative 430 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: so that doing that isn't the act of a sucker 431 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: or an altruist. Doing that is understood as self interest 432 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: properly understood because we're all in it together. I want 433 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: to step back to the power thing, because you took 434 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: us through these laws. Is there like a menu of 435 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: power that we get to choose from or to get 436 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: it out of the vagueness of power? Yeah? I love that. Um. 437 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: To get it out of the vagueness is the key, right, Um. 438 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: In just the same way that there's no they, there's 439 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: a particular we or a particular group of people who 440 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: we can insert ourselves into power. Isn't just some mystical 441 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 1: blob um. It takes you know. In my book, and 442 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: you're more powerful than you think. I talked about six 443 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: different sources of power. Okay, I love the numbers. You've 444 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: got three laws, You've got six sources of power. This 445 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: is we're gonna love the next I got nine strategies 446 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 1: of power to nine baseball exponential. But you know sources 447 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: of power, so the obvious ones money. People like numbers. Right. 448 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: What we've seen all around the country the power of ideas. Right. 449 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: The idea, not not even something as abstract as liberty, 450 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: but the idea, for instance, of black lives matter. That's 451 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: an idea that a few years ago it was much 452 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: more on the margins. And now you've got practically you know, 453 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: every fortune five companies rushing out there to say they 454 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: agree black lives matter. Right. Um, there's there's another one 455 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: that comes to mind, kind of on a different end 456 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: of the spectrum. But the idea of an inheritance tax 457 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: being rebranded as a death tax. Absolutely right, the way 458 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: you frame things, that's a form of power, right, absolutely right. 459 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: So you've got you know, money people ideas. Social norms 460 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: is another super important source of power. How we together 461 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: to find what's okay and what's normal? Right, So again, 462 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: look at the unfolding debates about trans identity, right, and 463 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: about pronouns like we are in the midst of a 464 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: collective reckoning and rearrangement of what social norms are. Right. 465 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: We've already now had the Supreme Court literally sanctify and 466 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: bless what had been an agreement amongst so many of 467 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: us as a matter of social norms that love is love, 468 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: whether the couple is the same sex or not, Love 469 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: is love. Right. Um, that didn't happen because Politician A 470 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: said so. It didn't happen because Corporation A didn't add 471 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: campaign if he happened because in a distributed way, millions 472 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: upon millions of people had conversations with each other and 473 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: started changing their sense of you know what I have. 474 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: I used to have this belief, but this person in 475 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: my life, this person I'm connected to, is changing my heart, 476 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: in my mind, in my sense of norms. Right. So 477 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: social norms is a fourth important source of power. The 478 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: fifth one, of course, which we are seeing unfortunately and 479 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: powerful in evidence right now, is force violence. Right, whether 480 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: that is organized under the ages of the state eight 481 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 1: in Bill Barr's you know masked Gestapo, or whether it 482 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: is you know, the self organizing militias of a K 483 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: forty seven carrying protesters in Michigan at the state capital, 484 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: who didn't want to have the tyranny of wearing a 485 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: mask imposed upon them. Right, Um, we're going without a haircut, 486 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: which I can understand. I mean, this is why I 487 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: was worried that we were doing video, because this is 488 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: this is not my best look. But but force is one, right, Ultimately, 489 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,479 Speaker 1: in the final one is the state. The power of 490 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: the state to actually set rules and norms, whether it's 491 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,959 Speaker 1: about something as tangible as hey, how much did you 492 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: get for an hour of flipping burgers? Seven fifty? How 493 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: about fifteen? How about fifteen dollars an hour. Right. And 494 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: why well, because enough of us convinced our government, the state, 495 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: to say that fifteen dollars is the minimum wage. Fifteen 496 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: dollars is the minimum basis for dignity and security for 497 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: an hourly wage. Right. And so you take all these 498 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: different sources of power, and they're all on display right now, 499 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: in good, bad, and ugly forms all around us. Right. 500 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 1: And again you gave my bio at the beginning. My 501 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 1: worldview is left of center. But our work at Citizen 502 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: University we work with and learn from people across the 503 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: ideological spectrum. Right. Um. We gather folks ranging from Black 504 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 1: Lives Matter and Fight for fifteen activists and dreamers UM 505 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: to Tea Party co founders. Right. Because what animated them 506 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: on one level, as much as they may disagree fiercely 507 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: on policy, what animates them on one level is some 508 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: interest in activating bottom up citizen power, right, bottom people power. 509 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: And my view is, to your point, we've got a 510 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: democratize democracy. We gotta make sure everybody, whatever their politics, 511 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: whatever they're from a small rural town or a big city, UM, 512 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: get some baseline literacy and then let us fight it out. 513 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: Let us argue it out, let us debate it, out, 514 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: let us do that thing called politics. Right, but the 515 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: politics will be more meaningful to the extent that we've 516 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: actually gained that initial literacy in the laws and sources 517 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: of power. Thank you for that deeper explanation. Three laws, 518 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: six sources. And I think that for me, um it 519 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: gives me a sense of power. And I holpefel like 520 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,479 Speaker 1: I'm overusing the word just to have options. You know, 521 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to feel like there's only one thing 522 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: I can do. And so if I'm starting to think 523 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: about money as a source of power, that gives me 524 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: a certain lens and a certain approach versus mass mobilization 525 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: or even small or mobilization of of someone other than 526 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: myself versus ideas, which is a place I naturally live 527 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: in and less so in the world of money. So 528 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: I think you you allow an entry point for everyone 529 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: when you do that, I want to take this time. 530 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: We've got some questions starting to come in during this 531 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: recording from our community around us, and so Robert Beats 532 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: has a question, how can you define a citizen with 533 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: out ultimately excluding people that live in a country. Is 534 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: that okay? Talk more about that, the idea that you 535 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: can be a citizen without having the right paperwork file. 536 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: I mean, of course there is a legal definition of 537 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: U S citizenship. Uh, and that matters, right, I I 538 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: get that. I mean the vote is tied to that 539 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: for instance. Right. But in the work that we're doing, 540 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: and I think the work that you're doing here, we 541 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: are trying to open up a much broader, capacious idea 542 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: of what it means to live like a citizen. Right. 543 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: And again, whether you have the papers or not, how 544 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: you live like a citizen has to do with whether 545 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,479 Speaker 1: you join, whether you serve, whether you listen, whether you 546 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: argue well, whether you participate, whether you vote, whether you 547 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: protest if you can't vote, whether you encourage others to write. Basically, 548 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: it all boils down to whether you show up for others, right, Um? 549 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: And I think that you know to the second part 550 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: of that question, you know, well who do we show 551 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: up for? I mean sometimes I get the version of 552 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: the question of well, why talk only about the United States? Right? 553 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: I mean, there's global sitizenship and we're all you know, 554 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: we're all humans, and yes that's true. Um. And again, 555 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: nothing like a pandemic to teach us that many problems, 556 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: including novel coronaviruses, don't care about our borders or about 557 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: our national institutions. But at the same time, the pandemic 558 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: is also teaching us painfully in the United States right now, 559 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: compared to people you know, right up the way from me, 560 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: in Canada and in other parts of the world, that 561 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,959 Speaker 1: nations still matter because nations still are the unit of 562 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: moral agency. They are the unit at which we can 563 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: actually ask somebody for redress of our grievances. Right, you've 564 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: got a problem. You don't have health insurance. You cannot 565 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: go petition the World Health Organization. Right, they're busy right 566 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: now doing other stuff. But you know, even if they 567 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: weren't busy, you couldn't go petition them for health insurance, right. 568 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: You would petition your national government flawed as it may be, 569 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: rigged as it maybe that's who you'd go to, right. 570 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: And so nations still matter, and this nation particular matters, 571 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: I think because you know, frankly, there might be conversations 572 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: going on about citizenship and democracy in other places right now, 573 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: but not a lot that looks like you and me 574 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: talking and the other people in this community participating and 575 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: listening right. Um. In the United States in particular, we 576 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: realized right now that democracy works only if enough of 577 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: us believe democracy works. And it's a it's kind of 578 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: a faith based, faith based right. And we in the 579 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: United States have the special burden to try to live 580 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: up to that because we can't just default to, well, 581 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: we're all part of the same vulcan, you know, with 582 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: all the same kind of bloodlines and legends and all 583 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: that stuff. No, we're not. We're just a group bunch 584 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: of people bound together by a set of ideas about 585 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: how we're going to try to do this thing together. Right. No, 586 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: that and that togetherness and the relationships and the with 587 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: others and the four others that empathy is I think 588 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: it just again, it unlocks an entry point for people, 589 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: and especially you know, one of the consequences of limiting 590 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: our power to the interpretation of you get to vote 591 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: and you get to have your atomic unit of self 592 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: interest is that you leave a lot of people off 593 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: to the side. You leave people who don't have documentation 594 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: off because you can't vote without that, or if you're 595 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 1: formally incarcerated in certain states or by age. You know, 596 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: and we have seen so much mobilization one of those 597 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,959 Speaker 1: um sources of power that you talked about earlier with 598 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: people under voting age in this country and around the world, 599 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: the climate crisis and the response to it is being 600 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: led powerfully by groups of young people who are prohibited 601 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: from exercising one form of power but have infinite amounts. Again, 602 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: I'm trying to reflect back what I've heard from, like, 603 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: am I doing it right, Professor, to exercise that power 604 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: in different way and that relationship, you know, even the 605 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: way you've talked about the openness of your university, not 606 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: just the left of center people, that we need a 607 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: space to kind of build that relationship if all are 608 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: interested in at least that basic premise, Like if there's 609 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: someone who just down for to Ernie, I'm not sure 610 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: if they have a place, But if you believe in 611 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: power to the people, and as you say that, we're 612 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: gonna try to test that with each other, then that's 613 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 1: a relationship. We spoke with Valerie Power for this show 614 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,919 Speaker 1: as well. Her new books called No Stranger, and it's 615 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: built on a similar premise that your opponent one is 616 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: not necessarily your enemy, but that a stranger is just 617 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: a part of you who you have yet to know um, 618 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: And so how do you integrate others even as you 619 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: disagree with them in a process of humanity, which is 620 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: to see them as part of you? And I think 621 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: there's a connective tissue here with the idea of valuing relationships, 622 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: about working with others, about humanizing even opponents in the 623 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:50,879 Speaker 1: project of democratizing democracy through citizening. This is absolutely right, 624 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: you know, And I think that you know, we often 625 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: talk about in our work when we're training people to 626 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: lead these civic Saturday gatherings, right that it's about cultivating 627 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: bonds of trust affection. Right. So trust requires in the 628 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: first place, that like, I know, if I walk in here, 629 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: you're not going to ambush me, You're not here to 630 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: flame me. Like where this is not a one and done, 631 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 1: you know. The point of this is not scores Earth. 632 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 1: This is we're in a game of infinite repeat play 633 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: right together, and we're gonna earn each other's trust by 634 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: continuing to come back here. But the affection part of 635 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that I actually have to like you, 636 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: but I have to. I love how you put it 637 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: that that to see you the stranger as a part 638 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: of me that I haven't yet discovered right um, And 639 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: that rehumanization is so much a part of you know, 640 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: you've you've emphasized a couple of times now in things 641 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: that you've said Barton Day about kind of the access 642 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: to this stuff. Right, This is concept laws of power. 643 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: I know that can sound kind of high minded and stuff, 644 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: but this is stuff for everybody, right And you talk 645 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: about young people. So where I live in Seattle, in 646 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,240 Speaker 1: King County See, which is the county that surrounds Seattle. 647 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: Over the last number of years, when the Black Lives 648 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: Matter movement started to pick up steam, several years ago, 649 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: a group of unheralded, unknown young people of color, mainly 650 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: African Americans, started organizing to block the creation of a 651 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: new youth detention center, right um. And they went under 652 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: the slogan no new Youth Jail, and they organized, they activated, 653 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: they showed up at council meetings, and you know what 654 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 1: happened over and over again. They lost, They kept losing votes. 655 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 1: The thing kept on going, the project kept on getting approved, 656 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: and they started, they laid the ground and they started 657 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: building this thing. Right But these young people kept on organizing, 658 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: they kept on building allies, they kept on sharpening their 659 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,879 Speaker 1: skills and their literacy and power. And then what happened 660 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: and the combination of the pandemic and the post George 661 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,959 Speaker 1: Floyd uprisings led to this incredible shift in the frame 662 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: of the possible. And they were ready for it, and 663 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: they've been organizing. They had those bonds of trust and 664 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: affection not just with each other but with allies in 665 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: power all over the place in this community, and all 666 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: of a sudden they were able to take that moment 667 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: and applied pressure on the elected officials and the decision 668 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: makers who decides of this and say, now, I think 669 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: it's time for you to reconsider this. And guess what, 670 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: just last week the King County executives said, you know what, 671 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: We're going to depopulate this youth detention center. We're gonna 672 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 1: take down this youth jail. So what looked like a repeated, repeated, 673 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 1: repeated defeat and set back turns out right now to 674 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: have been a victory. Right. These are young people who 675 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: just showed up and started teaching each other by showing 676 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: up and practicing this stuff. Um ideas like the stuff 677 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: we're talking about hopefully helped inform them. And you know, 678 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: some of them were involved in stuff that we've done 679 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: it citizen the university. But I take no credit at 680 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: all because these are just this is a rising generation, 681 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: as you said, of people who are figuring out by 682 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: doing it, and that is super exciting. What you and 683 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: I can do is help shine a light, help them 684 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: make sense of what they're doing, and give it some 685 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: frameworks and then again democratize this stuff about democracy. Right. So, um, 686 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: my friend and I believe your friend to Brittan Pat 687 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: McK cunningham is one of the co founders, is something 688 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: called Campaign Zero, right. Um. Campaign Zero is this policy 689 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,359 Speaker 1: platform and framework for people who initially joined the activism 690 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: after a whole host of police killings of unarmed black 691 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: men and boys, and wanted to figure out, well, how 692 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: do we pivot, how do we pivot from showing up 693 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: in the streets to changing the system? Um? And they 694 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: made they answered that question with this incredible menu of 695 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: things that break it down for you. Right. It's again, 696 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: it's not just the system. There's the piece of the 697 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: system that's about police training. There's a piece of the 698 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: system it's about prosecutors who can be unelected if they 699 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: don't serve the people. Right, there's a piece of that 700 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,280 Speaker 1: puzzle that is about the media and how you educate 701 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 1: the media in following these stories before the fact, before 702 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: something goes down, rather than after it goes down. Right. Um, 703 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: And there's this an incredible menu of tools there. And 704 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,240 Speaker 1: I think that what they did with Campaign zero can 705 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: and should be done across every possible issue. Your issue 706 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 1: might be climate, your issue might be guns, your issue 707 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: might be gender equality, whatever the issue is, there's a 708 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: way to go from that initial burst of protests, which 709 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: is often pushing against something, to a concerted, systematic way 710 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: to build for something. Right and again, just to repeat 711 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: your refrain, you can't do that alone. You've got to 712 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: join others. You can join a club, you can join 713 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: a group of people hanging out at the corner. You 714 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: can join you know, a party, it doesn't matter. Just join. 715 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: The act of joining is the beginning of creating that 716 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: infinite sacific power. All Right, we're gonna bring in and 717 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: speaking of joining, NAT tousand, I believe that is coming 718 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 1: to us from New York City, New York. Yeah. So 719 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: I'm coming to you from Brooklyn, New York, in my 720 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: kitchen because it's close to the WiFi router. Uh. And 721 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: so my question is how do we convince people who 722 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: have no demonstrable empathy that they should care about other people? 723 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: And if you want to look at that in a 724 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,399 Speaker 1: political system, how do we convince Americans who bought into 725 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: the myth of American individualism that individualism has failed us 726 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 1: and that collectivism, uh is the way that society should 727 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: function for the betterment of everyone in that society. It's 728 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: a great question because it's not easily answered, you know. 729 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that you're you're asking you're asking 730 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 1: a tactical question about how you deal with individuals in interactions, 731 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,919 Speaker 1: and then you're asking a much bigger strategic question about 732 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: how do we deal with our culture. Right, So let 733 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: me say a word about each of those levels, because 734 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: you know, on the tactical level, when you're you know, 735 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,399 Speaker 1: whether it's online, invite people into conversation where again, where 736 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 1: it's possible to build trust, where you actually know who 737 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: you're talking to, right. But you know, I think on 738 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: that human level, I still think that even the person who, 739 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons, and many of them just 740 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,800 Speaker 1: have to do with their kind of tribal, polarized political identity, 741 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: dig into a set of talking points in a point 742 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: of view that well, you should have been more careful, 743 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: you shouldn't have done this. You take it away from that, 744 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 1: and you begin with a series of questions, right, and 745 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 1: so one layer of questions is basically like, how do 746 00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: you feel like you are most misunderstood? Okay, that's a 747 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: disarming question. How are you most misunderstood? Right now, you're 748 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 1: kind of getting them to let down their guard a 749 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 1: little bit and open up a bit more of their 750 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 1: three dimensional humanity. Um. But then the second question is 751 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 1: what are you most afraid of if your side loses? Right, 752 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,759 Speaker 1: if your worldview does not prevail? Like, what are you not? 753 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: What are you afraid of? In the abstract and theory? 754 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,399 Speaker 1: Like what are you afraid of? For you and those 755 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 1: around you and those you care about? Right? And again 756 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 1: it gets to some of the um the fear, the fear, 757 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: the shame, the hurt that often animates UM, some of 758 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: these most anti social, civic and political attitudes. Right, And 759 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,840 Speaker 1: if you can somewhat detoxify them at the outset, you 760 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: might have a shot in this one on one conversation 761 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: where if you've earned some trust and you know you're 762 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: not just kind of a one and done, I'm gonna 763 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: flame you and and and be off this platform. You 764 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,359 Speaker 1: have a shot there. Now we get to the very 765 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 1: interesting question, which you know is the question of culture 766 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: and media, right of how do you scale from one 767 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: to one in like epiphanies to culture change? Right? How 768 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 1: do you scale that? And I think part of it 769 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: is we do it by doing what we're doing here, right, 770 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: not just me and bartuned I having a conversation, but 771 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: you joined this conversation. You decided to show up and 772 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,360 Speaker 1: participate in the middle of the day and then shape 773 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 1: it and we over time in ways that are much harder, 774 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: have to again make it more possible for more people 775 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: to enter into conversations where they can question that mythology 776 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,359 Speaker 1: of rugged individualism and you can do in a way 777 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 1: that's not got you, but you ask you like again, 778 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: I have a different pair of questions that I often 779 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: used with people in work that I used to do 780 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 1: around mentorship, which is who's influenced you? And how do 781 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: you pass it on? Right? You asked that question. If 782 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 1: I asked Bartuny that question, we did an hour on that. 783 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: He would unscroll this list of mentors, tor mentors, people 784 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: who have shaped him, people who've you know managed him, 785 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: people have coached him. And you can't start answering that 786 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: first question without realizing, no man is an island, No 787 00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: one is self made. There is no such thing as 788 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 1: a sell made man or woman. Right. We are all 789 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: made by each other. We all make each other right, 790 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 1: And then you immediately go to that second question of well, 791 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,800 Speaker 1: how am I passing that on? How am I passing 792 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: on the good, the bad, and the ugly of how 793 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,239 Speaker 1: I was formed? Right and again, it's an invitation for 794 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 1: people to get out of their political combat avatar identity 795 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 1: and into their actual humanity, right and um. And if 796 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 1: we do that in setting after setting, it's why we 797 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: do Civic Saturdays. That's why we created the Civic Civic 798 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: Seminary Program to train people like you actually to lead 799 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: civic Saturdays in Brooklyn, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in Dallas, in 800 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,920 Speaker 1: San Diego, wherever it may be um to you know, 801 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: to lead these conversations and to create that kind of space. Right. 802 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: That's how we change the culture is we create that. 803 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: We commit to creating that space over and over and 804 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: over again. It's gonna take some time, because it took 805 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,880 Speaker 1: us some time to get to the level of sickness 806 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: in our culture that we're dealing with. But I'm net 807 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 1: hopeful man. I mean, just conversations like this give me 808 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 1: give me a surplus of hope. Thank you Nat for 809 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: thoughtful question, but eric great answer. And to encourage people 810 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 1: to engage with questions is such a shortcut to changing 811 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,040 Speaker 1: how we relate to each other. You know, as opposed 812 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:16,239 Speaker 1: to statement versus statement, questions or invitations, statements are often 813 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 1: closed doors. Um so I really resonates with me so 814 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,840 Speaker 1: much personally, I'm gonna give you one more kind of 815 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,520 Speaker 1: parting opportunity, And truly, if you don't have an answer 816 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: right now, we can follow up. We like to give 817 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 1: people an opportunity to actually take a step to give 818 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:35,239 Speaker 1: them something tactical, tangible to do. Could be a writing exercise, 819 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,759 Speaker 1: could be signed up for a thing, could be a 820 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: set of questions to ask the person in their lives. 821 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: But as we've been talking so much about citizenship and 822 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: civic power and the forms of it and the sources 823 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,839 Speaker 1: of it and the ways we can wield it, do 824 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: you have one or very short list of things you 825 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 1: would encourage someone listening to this to experiment with themselves 826 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,799 Speaker 1: to feel that power yeah. You know, the shortest answer 827 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,200 Speaker 1: I can give is join or make a club. I 828 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: honestly don't even care what it's about. I mean, ideally 829 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: you something civic or political or social cultural issue. But 830 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: it can be a gardening club, it can be a rotistry, 831 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:18,280 Speaker 1: baseball club. It can be a you know, eighties, early nineties, 832 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,800 Speaker 1: you know, hip hop rap club, you know whatever floats 833 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 1: your book, right, But join or start a club in 834 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: which you can actually rebuild that incredibly atrophied muscle we 835 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,680 Speaker 1: have in the United States our citizen muscle. Right, My 836 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: friend Annie Leonard, who who runs Green Piece USA, talks 837 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: about how we as Americans, we have this hugely overdeveloped 838 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,080 Speaker 1: consumer muscle. Right. We know how to buy fifty different 839 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,760 Speaker 1: kinds of toothpaste, we know different kinds of you know, uh, 840 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,640 Speaker 1: platforms for our music streaming choices and all this stuff, 841 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 1: but our civic muscles are pitiful and weak. Right, Well, 842 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,719 Speaker 1: how do you build that? Sure you can go protests, 843 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,759 Speaker 1: Sure you can vote. But the simplest thing to do 844 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,400 Speaker 1: is actually to join or start a club. To gather 845 00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,280 Speaker 1: up with a few people with a commitment to repeat 846 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,319 Speaker 1: your gathering, create a sense of unity and identity, create 847 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,399 Speaker 1: a sense of ritual about how you gather and then 848 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 1: keep adding over time you will figure out that well. 849 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 1: Having to come together to create a common agenda, to 850 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: find common goals, to do common activities requires negotiation. It 851 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,840 Speaker 1: requires reckoning with the fact that you've got money and 852 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: I don't have money. You've got time and I don't 853 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: have time. It requires us to deal with our inequalities 854 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 1: or iniquities. It requires us to deal with our difference 855 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,720 Speaker 1: in the way that you you speak with an accent 856 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,360 Speaker 1: and I don't speak with an accent. Whatever. Right for 857 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,839 Speaker 1: the next three to six months, to dive deep on 858 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,719 Speaker 1: that issue, learn about it, read about it, talk to 859 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,440 Speaker 1: people about knock on virtual doors about it, Like, hey, 860 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: I heard that you know about something about this. Can 861 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 1: I pick your brain about this, join or start a 862 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,280 Speaker 1: club on that issue? Right? Okay? After three to six months, 863 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,439 Speaker 1: maybe you'll decide that issue is your life's passion. Maybe 864 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,799 Speaker 1: you'll be like, okay, I got it, Like I'm done 865 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 1: with that issue. But now what guess what you will have? 866 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 1: You will have civic muscle. You will have practiced on 867 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: something concrete and specific over and over again, instead of 868 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,800 Speaker 1: just generally I'm thinking about power I'm thinking about power 869 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,400 Speaker 1: no no, no lift stuff. So if you just go 870 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,920 Speaker 1: to our website Citizen University dot us, there's ways read 871 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,640 Speaker 1: to join that club, participate in a citic Saturday, start 872 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: your own kind of find ways to get them connected 873 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,080 Speaker 1: with others who care about this stuff. And I think 874 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, of course a lot is lost during zoom times, 875 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,600 Speaker 1: but I would say a lot of game too. There's 876 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: a focusing that happens. And the kind of conversations that 877 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 1: you and I are having here are two day and 878 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,759 Speaker 1: the ways that people realize, okay, like they're listening to this, 879 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,600 Speaker 1: they're seeing ideas in the chat like today they can 880 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,800 Speaker 1: start learning how to lift stuff. Uh and uh, that 881 00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,160 Speaker 1: to me is kind of beautiful and pretty exciting. Eric 882 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:45,560 Speaker 1: lou Ceo, co founder of Citizen University. Thank you for 883 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 1: the explanations and the breakdowns. Thank you for the examples 884 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,320 Speaker 1: on the ground. Thank you for the tangible calls to action. 885 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 1: Thank you for your energy and and and building a 886 00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,600 Speaker 1: relationship with us for this time that we've had together. 887 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,720 Speaker 1: So appreciate you. And good luck to you, to your family, 888 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 1: to your mother in particular. We'll be in touch. Thank you, 889 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. Hey you. It's me again. It's 890 00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 1: just us, just me and you, and I got to 891 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 1: tell you that I am fired up after that, what 892 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,960 Speaker 1: really connected with me was the idea that power justifies itself, 893 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,799 Speaker 1: and we create very convincing stories to explain the very 894 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:31,000 Speaker 1: unequal distribution of that power. But the good news is 895 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,240 Speaker 1: we can create news stories of power and actually shift 896 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:39,439 Speaker 1: it and generated That's what we're doing with this show. 897 00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 1: That's what we're doing with you. But we are just 898 00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,279 Speaker 1: here to think about and talk about power. We're here 899 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,200 Speaker 1: to lift stuff. In each episode, we're gonna share things 900 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:55,640 Speaker 1: you can do internally and externally to strengthen your citizen practice. 901 00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 1: Don't worry about the details. We've posted them to how 902 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,840 Speaker 1: to sit is in dot com. For this episode is 903 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 1: two things you can do. The first is inspired by 904 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,040 Speaker 1: Eric and the work of Citizen University. You already heard 905 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:14,399 Speaker 1: him say it. Start or join a club. Ideally it's 906 00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: something useful to your community, but you can have a 907 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:21,840 Speaker 1: broad interpretation of useful. Maybe it's about supporting kids in 908 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,600 Speaker 1: your neighborhood. Maybe it's a film club. The point is 909 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,320 Speaker 1: to help you practice power in relationship with others, ideally 910 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:33,000 Speaker 1: some strangers. This is big citizen stuff. Right here, you'll 911 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,640 Speaker 1: practice how groups of people make decisions self governed, are 912 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:41,560 Speaker 1: accountable to each other, negotiate different needs and perspectives, collaborate, 913 00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:47,920 Speaker 1: and importantly, resolve conflict. After you do this, let us know, 914 00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 1: send an email to action at how to citizen dot com. 915 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,839 Speaker 1: Include episode one somewhere in the subject line and tell 916 00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: us about your club. Or go one step bigger and 917 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 1: shouted out publicly on social media. Use the hashtag how 918 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,840 Speaker 1: to citizen and say something like I don't know, I 919 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,440 Speaker 1: started a text message group for local business owners in 920 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,800 Speaker 1: my neighborhood. What what and then what? What would be 921 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,120 Speaker 1: completely optional, like if that's not your voice, like definitely don't. 922 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:18,840 Speaker 1: Don't do it just because I did it? Like you, 923 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,520 Speaker 1: you do you. This next action is something less public. 924 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,360 Speaker 1: We want you to practice seeing an understanding power what 925 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,720 Speaker 1: Eric calls reading and writing power. It will literally become 926 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,560 Speaker 1: your superpower as a citizen. And we are gonna put 927 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,640 Speaker 1: this episode to use. So this is something that you're 928 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,359 Speaker 1: gonna need to say some time with write things down, 929 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,840 Speaker 1: type it up, I'll say it to you. But again 930 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 1: the details are at how to citizen dot com. Four 931 00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 1: steps to this here process Number one, pick an issue 932 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,719 Speaker 1: that you care about that impacts a specific community or 933 00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,319 Speaker 1: the general public. Whatever works for you. For example, could 934 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,320 Speaker 1: be police budgets and how large they are. I have 935 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:05,880 Speaker 1: some interest in that topic. Number two, I want you 936 00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: to write down who benefits from the current state of 937 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:14,160 Speaker 1: things and who doesn't. Make a list three. Answer the 938 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,880 Speaker 1: question how are the decisions about this issue made and 939 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:23,600 Speaker 1: in that process is their accountability, transparency and participation by 940 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:28,479 Speaker 1: those most affected by that decision. In the last step, 941 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:33,560 Speaker 1: number four, write down who influences the decision making process 942 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,920 Speaker 1: and what types of power do they use. Now you 943 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,440 Speaker 1: don't have to write it down. You can rewind, pause, 944 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 1: think out loud to yourself, give us soliloquy. Doesn't matter 945 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,320 Speaker 1: too much how you do it, only that you do it, 946 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,320 Speaker 1: and we welcome you sharing it with us, typing it, 947 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,200 Speaker 1: or with an audio memo if you want. Send that 948 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,799 Speaker 1: email again to action at how to citizen dot com. 949 00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,920 Speaker 1: Include episode one in the subject line, we are so 950 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:07,399 Speaker 1: grateful to Eric lou for helping us democratize democracy. Check 951 00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:12,240 Speaker 1: out Citizen University dot us for so much more about 952 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:16,560 Speaker 1: their activities, their trainings, their virtual events, and find one 953 00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,960 Speaker 1: of Eric's mini books wherever you like finding books and 954 00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,239 Speaker 1: supporting those booksellers. You can also follow Eric online. He 955 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,480 Speaker 1: is on Twitter, Eric p Lou. That's Eric with a C. 956 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:33,520 Speaker 1: The letter p l I. You now. We're gonna post 957 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:38,560 Speaker 1: this whole episode, a transcript, show notes, and more resources 958 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,560 Speaker 1: at how to Citizen dot com. Do check it out, 959 00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,600 Speaker 1: and if you like what you experienced here, please share 960 00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:51,120 Speaker 1: this show. Leave review five stars is my humble suggestion 961 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,279 Speaker 1: and sign up from my newsletter at baritunda dot com, 962 00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,640 Speaker 1: where I will announce the upcoming live tapings and more 963 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,840 Speaker 1: from audience members like you. You can even send me 964 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,839 Speaker 1: a text to two O two eight nine four eight 965 00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:09,000 Speaker 1: eight four four let me know you found me. I 966 00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,480 Speaker 1: just put in the word citizens. I know where you 967 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,640 Speaker 1: came from, and I'm saying you updates that way as well. 968 00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,840 Speaker 1: How does Citizen with Barratune Day is a production of 969 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:23,359 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio podcast executive produced by Nick Stump, Miles Gray, 970 00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:28,000 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Stewart and Barrattuone Day Thurston, produced by Joel Smith, 971 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,400 Speaker 1: edited by Justin Smith. Power by You