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Speaker 1: M how many years you think you grew to back

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Speaker 1: my time, I was big enough to work in a

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Speaker 1: backer page and that was real little and two thousand

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Speaker 1: and four, which the last year I grow to show,

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Speaker 1: I probably was fifty years in the backerup field, you know.

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Speaker 1: On this episode of the Bargaris podcast, I want to

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Speaker 1: take you on a journey into the mountains of southern Appalachia.

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Speaker 1: It will be my pleasure to introduce you to the Clarks,

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Speaker 1: a family of farmers, musicians, and bear hunters who are

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Speaker 1: relics of the region's culture. Dr Daniel Pierce is a

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Speaker 1: professor and author and national authority on Appalachian culture who

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Speaker 1: will give us a guided tour through its fascinating history.

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Speaker 1: We'll listen to the life story of this family. Here's

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Speaker 1: some bluegrass picking, and wade through the fact and fiction

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Speaker 1: of the regions stereo types. We might even talk about

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Speaker 1: Dolly Parton. The people that lived, they lived, like I said,

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Speaker 1: with the earth. They had to make their living. That's

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Speaker 1: why I'm saying, you cannot separate your music from your lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: You cannot separate your lifestyle, your religion, your politics from

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Speaker 1: your music. It's a part of life. And that was

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Speaker 1: what our music was in the mountains. It was a

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Speaker 1: part of our life. My name is Clay Nukelem and

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Speaker 1: this is the bear Grease Podcast where we'll explore things

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Speaker 1: forgotten but relevant, search for insight and unlikely places, and

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Speaker 1: where we'll tell the story of Americans who lived their

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Speaker 1: lives close to the land. This podcast, Fifty Years in

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Speaker 1: the Backer Field, is part one of a two part

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Speaker 1: series on Appalachian mountain culture. Check back for part two

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Speaker 1: called Moonshine, Nascar and Bear Hunting. Also, I want to

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Speaker 1: tell you again that we're going weekly with this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Will continue to do our documentary style podcasts like this

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Speaker 1: one every other week, but on the off weeks will

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Speaker 1: release what we call the bear Grease Render, where we'll discuss,

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Speaker 1: dissect and distill the documentary style episodes with a band

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Speaker 1: of married guests. It's gonna be a guaranteed blast. It's

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Speaker 1: like the Bear Grease Podcast unplugged. You're gonna love it.

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Speaker 1: Initial little cabbage right here, you see that right there?

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Speaker 1: Day But I want to say a cabbage head, Dan

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Speaker 1: Slaw on each hedge wood when you cut them up,

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Speaker 1: they make a rash walart. So I know I've had

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Speaker 1: them for paper didn't eat all of them. Did you

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Speaker 1: ever grow did you ever grow tobacco? Yeah? What? What?

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Speaker 1: How did? What did you do with it? The backer

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Speaker 1: I growed was burly and uh and I growed I

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Speaker 1: growed it at only field and you grew up commercially. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what I've done a farming besides the magic ros Tobacca.

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Speaker 1: That's the voice of Mr Roy Clark, not to be

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Speaker 1: confused with the Roy Clark from the show He Hall.

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Speaker 1: This Roy Clark lives in Cock County in eastern Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: in the heart of the Smoky Mountains, which is a

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Speaker 1: range inside the Appalachian Range. East of his front porch

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Speaker 1: you can see the high ridgeline border of North Carolina,

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Speaker 1: and to the north you'll hear the intermittent sound and

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Speaker 1: muffled barks of his hounds. I've never seen Mr Roy

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Speaker 1: not wear overalls. It seems he hasn't. Every day pair

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Speaker 1: and it's going out pair the latter. Looking sharp and new,

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Speaker 1: Mr Roy looks like he could be from Ireland. In

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Speaker 1: his younger years, his hair was red, but now it's

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Speaker 1: a faded shade of gray and white. He's seventy two

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Speaker 1: years old and he's a living relic of times past,

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Speaker 1: and you have to take my word for this. He's

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Speaker 1: a bear hunter amongst bear hunters. He's dedicated his life

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Speaker 1: to raising, training, and hunting bear hounds. He has a

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Speaker 1: rich history with the American plothound, a breed of big

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Speaker 1: game dog endemic to the Appalachians. How many dogs have

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Speaker 1: you got out here? Mr? Roy? Thirteen fifteen chevente to

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Speaker 1: twenty three, twenty four, twenty four right here, and I've

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Speaker 1: got something the barn and that's a bear dog pack,

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Speaker 1: that's the three patch. Uh. But yeah, I know you,

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Speaker 1: young dog, that you're doing pretty good? Did I finally

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Speaker 1: a little bit? Yeah? Do you ever have a dog

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Speaker 1: that didn't start out very good, that maybe it was

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Speaker 1: slow to start, that ends up being a top pound

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you something. Most of the time, to do naturals,

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Speaker 1: just the one just by, just most time. Southern Appalachia

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Speaker 1: is a storied region of the United States. It includes

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Speaker 1: the entire state of West Virginia, the western side of Virginia,

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Speaker 1: western North Carolina, northwestern South Carolina, eastern Kentucky, East Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: northern Georgia, in northeast Alabama. Basically, the region is defined

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Speaker 1: by mountains, and it's roughly the southern one third of

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Speaker 1: the Appalachian Mountain Range, which runs from Newfoundland, Canada, all

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Speaker 1: the way down to Alabama. This range includes at least

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Speaker 1: thirty mountains higher than five thousand feet and the highest

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Speaker 1: peak east of the Mississippi River mountain Mitchell in North Carolina,

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Speaker 1: which is six thousand, six eighty four feet above sea level.

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Speaker 1: The range is an alternating series of ridges running north

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Speaker 1: and south, which acted as a natural barrier to the

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Speaker 1: western expansion of the early colonies that would become the

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Speaker 1: United States. This topographic layout is important because the culture,

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Speaker 1: like everywhere else, has been shaped by the land from

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Speaker 1: which it was hewn. In this case, the mountains proved

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Speaker 1: to be both and eden, but also a custard land

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Speaker 1: ridden with all varieties of scarcity. I began exploring the

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Speaker 1: Appalachian regions some years ago in search of the region's

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Speaker 1: legendary bear hunters and houndsmen of which there are many.

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Speaker 1: But what I found was more robust. I found a

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Speaker 1: cultural treasure rivaling any place I've ever visited. It's called

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Speaker 1: Before we officially meet, Mr Roy, I want to be

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Speaker 1: clear about something. Appalachia is a very diverse and modern

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Speaker 1: region of the country. They have swinky coffee shops, distinguished universities,

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Speaker 1: and target superstores. I've chosen to highlight rural Appalachia to

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Speaker 1: get a glimpse into what it once was and the

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Speaker 1: way that it still is to some and frankly, I'm

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Speaker 1: fascinated with rural culture and have the highest respect for

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Speaker 1: people like the Clark family. Meet Mr Roy, Mr Roy,

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Speaker 1: what are your what are some of your earliest memories

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Speaker 1: living back here in East Tennessee. I remember when I said,

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Speaker 1: little I cann't even hold a play up players them bottoms,

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Speaker 1: drip down them that the horses? Is that right now?

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Speaker 1: What were you all planting by then? Corn and tobacco,

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Speaker 1: corn in to backing, Uh yeah, and hit a rock

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Speaker 1: and he didn't make blue places on his side and

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Speaker 1: stuff because I had to walk up in that plow

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Speaker 1: and he would eat you on the shade and felt

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Speaker 1: like it broke agree over something. What year were you born?

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Speaker 1: Nineteen forty eight, so your seventy three. I'll be shaventy

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Speaker 1: three in November. So what did what did your family

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Speaker 1: do back in We're in uh Cock County, Tennessee. Actually,

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Speaker 1: Daddy drive us Scoob Bush when I was real little,

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Speaker 1: and then well before that, he'd drove a log truck.

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Speaker 1: When my grandpa broke his leg twice. I believe he'd

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Speaker 1: drove a log trip from ten year old up tilly.

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Speaker 1: So your grandfather was a logger. Yeah, they logged up

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Speaker 1: the good and they had holem will be under the

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Speaker 1: dereo put him off over there, and then a little

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Speaker 1: of one a box car next to railroad trade or

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Speaker 1: did roll them off, and then they had a little

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Speaker 1: him on that railroad corn hollow out of here. And

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Speaker 1: then he drove a school bus and while I was

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Speaker 1: in school, and then I guess before I was out

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Speaker 1: of school, he went to work for the county driving

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Speaker 1: a bulldog instead. There wasn't a lot of money to

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Speaker 1: be made in this country a long time ago. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: what what were some of the first things that you

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Speaker 1: did to make money y'all? Were y'all were going to

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Speaker 1: getting coal out of Kentucky. We did my grandpa, that's

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Speaker 1: that track. Like fifteen year old, I'd driving to Kentucky

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Speaker 1: and we had houling Colen stuff out of Kentucky and

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Speaker 1: go around and peddle it around. And then we'd Uh.

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Speaker 1: In the summertime we'd go to we'd go to Henderson

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Speaker 1: Bill to to his daughters and had peach or church

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Speaker 1: and apple old church and growed water melon and candle hope.

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Speaker 1: And we'd take that log truck and haulam in here,

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Speaker 1: and how peaches and pedal ama out, and how watermelons

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Speaker 1: and cantle hopes and pedal am. So what do you

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Speaker 1: what did you do for a living? What kind of

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Speaker 1: work have you done? When I got out of high school,

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Speaker 1: I worked a little bit his emotion helper building some

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Speaker 1: buildings John the Stoke Livan camp down there, and then

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Speaker 1: I went to Merkan Inca which was a fabric place, Okay,

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Speaker 1: in a factory. Yeah. And then I went in service

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Speaker 1: for two years. And then after I got out of service,

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Speaker 1: I come back to Anca and then come up. I

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Speaker 1: run Percisions court clerk and got elected for head. And

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Speaker 1: I farmed all the time that I worked. It ain't

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Speaker 1: I farmed? And then tell me about your farming. Well,

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Speaker 1: it was hard work and not much money. It's mostly

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Speaker 1: what it was. I growed the back and I growed tomatus,

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Speaker 1: and me and my brother in law and the whole

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Speaker 1: family has worked into the magus, when we grow a

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Speaker 1: couple of acres of tom where were you selling the tomatoes?

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Speaker 1: We've taken them to the packing house in North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, we actually saw some in ten to see too,

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Speaker 1: but most of the North Carolina where we took him

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Speaker 1: to the sale. And we've done decent with that for

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Speaker 1: a while. And thematis got so they figured out I

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Speaker 1: wanted to drop a price, and you're not make nothing

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Speaker 1: out of them. And we grow damn per I don't know,

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Speaker 1: ten or fifteen years, I guess. And and then one

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Speaker 1: year he come up at uh that we took a

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Speaker 1: little up bier and uh. And when it comes down

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Speaker 1: to get the check, we didn't get no money. We

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Speaker 1: got a bill. We owed them pifty cents a box

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Speaker 1: or packing so, uh, we are you being serious? I'm

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Speaker 1: dead serious you, I said, they went in a hole

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Speaker 1: on him. I said, well, damn, we never paid it.

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Speaker 1: So I went to I went to Atlanta, Georgia, down

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Speaker 1: the farmer's market down there, and we was going in

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Speaker 1: the hole. We weren't even gonna come out that year.

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Speaker 1: And my brother and I, which is Edward, and my

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Speaker 1: wife Brendan, and the young ands and and my sister

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Speaker 1: Diane and her young and they picked the amatis. Edward

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Speaker 1: would truck them to me down there, and I stayed

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Speaker 1: three weeks down there on the farmers market and didn't

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Speaker 1: even come home. And we come out making some money

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Speaker 1: off of the hold. What we quit raising them today?

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Speaker 1: Now you but you still raised thems today though I

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Speaker 1: still raised them to eat. And I raised some lake

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Speaker 1: crops of tomatus here after day. And I ain't talking

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Speaker 1: about a big amount. I'm talking about that field right

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Speaker 1: down our three or four tens, three or four ten

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Speaker 1: tents of an acre, tents of an acre. And I

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Speaker 1: actually made more money and her peddling them to these

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Speaker 1: restaurants and stuff and taking them and selling them. I

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Speaker 1: made more money off of down Like if I had

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Speaker 1: fifteen hundred plants out and I could make four dollars

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Speaker 1: a plant that was like caute, forty five hundred dollars,

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Speaker 1: that's some money. And the debates, but the middleman got

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Speaker 1: in the middle of it, took all the money away

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Speaker 1: from him. And then the back of which you made

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Speaker 1: a little bit on here, but it wasn't know. So

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Speaker 1: you grew, you grew backer, you grew tobacco for how

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Speaker 1: many years, you think you grew tobacco. Actually my time,

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Speaker 1: I speak enough to work in a backer patch and

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Speaker 1: that was real little until h two thousand and four

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Speaker 1: was the last year I grow toch So I probably

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Speaker 1: was fifty years in the backup field, really growing about

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Speaker 1: twenty acres or so not to start with it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but on the lift I might have head close to that.

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Speaker 1: But now we just mostly growed what we had. Fun

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Speaker 1: eyes are growing at. What he means when he says

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Speaker 1: that he grew someone else's tobacco is that he's referring

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Speaker 1: to a government tobacco allotment, meaning a person with the

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Speaker 1: allotment is able to sell a certain amount of tobacco.

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Speaker 1: The person can also lease out their allotment to another

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Speaker 1: farmer to grow as like Daddy's in pappage. In my

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Speaker 1: grandpa up here, I growed his from time I was

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Speaker 1: in high school with grandpa's year and uh, he had

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Speaker 1: about a hype acre about what he had. Tell me,

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Speaker 1: how how does your bear hunting fit in with your

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Speaker 1: with your work? I mean, like it's clear that you

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Speaker 1: have dedicated a big part of your life to bear

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Speaker 1: hunting with hounds. I had to work back or off

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Speaker 1: in the followed the year, and some of them would

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Speaker 1: be a hunting, and I just keep the radio on

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Speaker 1: and listening and couldn't work back or for listening to

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Speaker 1: him and stuff for gradnit off and and they'd get

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Speaker 1: one of going, and I've left the backer born and

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Speaker 1: laded me up. Check your right doves and hit the

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Speaker 1: mountain up Janner. I remember one time its running one

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Speaker 1: and I went up burned packing and they're still on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the mountain. And I packed the

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Speaker 1: byron and treat it and killed the byron, had it killed.

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Speaker 1: When they got to me, I thought that you were

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Speaker 1: working to baccup a couple of things. When he said

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Speaker 1: he packed a bear, what he meant is that the

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Speaker 1: other guy's dogs were chasing the bear. Mr Roy heard

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Speaker 1: their dogs running the bear, and he sent his dogs

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Speaker 1: in his reinforcement. He packed them. Secondly, we just grazed

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Speaker 1: the surface of Mr Roy's bear hunting in this section.

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Speaker 1: In episode two, We're gonna dive much deeper. I was

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Speaker 1: born into byar hunting. My grandpa bar Hunt and my

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Speaker 1: daddy bear hunty. My other grandpa here bar hunting a

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Speaker 1: little bit it. My great uncle Barhuney it's been some

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Speaker 1: bar hunting here. I think I was with Pappy and

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Speaker 1: I was three year old and we was on the

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Speaker 1: log truck and the gift to first bar Daddy ever killed,

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Speaker 1: because I remember I remember shutting on top of it

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Speaker 1: on that log trick. If it's something else, I probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't remember. What are your first memories of bear hunting

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Speaker 1: back in there with your dad and Grandpa? Well, I

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Speaker 1: remember when I was a six year old, if I

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Speaker 1: could wake up of them morning when they get, they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't get. He wouldn't give me up. But if I

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Speaker 1: could wake up a lot of times she'd let me go,

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Speaker 1: you know, miss schoo and go. But then we would

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Speaker 1: go by our hunting and uh, and we would have

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Speaker 1: to lead dogs to the woods. It got sold that

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Speaker 1: I'd had to lead the trail. Dog got in front

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Speaker 1: of the other dogs. I wouldn't big enough to hold you. Well,

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Speaker 1: when I'd go with Daddy out in the woods and

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Speaker 1: he would be a hunting a track and if you

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Speaker 1: put rounder time up around a tree, and then he

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Speaker 1: didn't make me stay with him, and then he'd be

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Speaker 1: trying to see which voice are going, and then he

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Speaker 1: hid a holler for me to bring that dog. Well,

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Speaker 1: I know when I tied that dog, he was gonna

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Speaker 1: drag me down. So I know if I turned him blue,

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Speaker 1: so I'd be in trouble too. So I've just taken

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Speaker 1: get two hand hold on that leads drop and here

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Speaker 1: we'd go when I fall down, and Daddy'd catch me

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Speaker 1: when I got to him. And I know one time

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Speaker 1: Daddy said, you're gonna have to lead the ramler. We

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Speaker 1: ain't got enough to lead the dolls. And I told Pappy,

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Speaker 1: I said, my Grandpa, I said, I ain't wanted to

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Speaker 1: lead no dollar. He said you had to go with

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Speaker 1: him soon. And I said, well, I'll tell you one thing.

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Speaker 1: I might go this time, but the next time I

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Speaker 1: go by our hunting, I'll be big enough telling so

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Speaker 1: I ain't leading your dollars. Because son, he'd hearing me

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Speaker 1: to death. They had to get that down. And they

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Speaker 1: had this biral here that they had boughten uncle burned

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Speaker 1: about it in Florida, I guess. And they brought you

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Speaker 1: back here and they had he had a wild I was,

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Speaker 1: I don't know about three year old men through four.

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Speaker 1: And they had food with that byron, food with it

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Speaker 1: with dogs and stuff. Why I wasn't afraid of it.

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Speaker 1: Might didn't want to hear it. And Daddy'd get me

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Speaker 1: and checked me up up on the top of it.

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Speaker 1: And you talked about wanting office something they had they

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Speaker 1: had a bear, they had live and uh, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to offense everybody I didn't about like Grandpa was. He'd

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Speaker 1: treat him in the barn as an old barn down here.

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Speaker 1: Every time you get loose, she's bet him up in

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Speaker 1: a tear poach down. How colin was it for bear

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Speaker 1: hunters back then to have a live bear? Well, I

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Speaker 1: never did hear of another bar, except at I got

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Speaker 1: a corner with Hart dealing him up yanner and and

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Speaker 1: and and he said that that his daddy had wanted

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Speaker 1: to store a bar. And that was you know years

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Speaker 1: or coto. What what about camping and hunting back in

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Speaker 1: the Gulf with with them, with your dad and grandpa. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'd actually, uh, we'd actually load everything we had on

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Speaker 1: a on a log truck and you put you dolls

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00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,440
Speaker 1: and your food and tarpolian and and everything. I only

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00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 1: can go to the good. And then we'd sleep in

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Speaker 1: the back of that truck and put some hay down

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Speaker 1: and step to sleep home and take a tarpolian and

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Speaker 1: covered over the back of eating, let it come over

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Speaker 1: the side and cook beside eating and like it. And

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Speaker 1: when we had the em old jeeves and we'd hunt

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Speaker 1: that lamb cheeps instead. Roy, how would you describe Appalachian

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Speaker 1: Mountain culture? I describe it in a way that there's

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Speaker 1: no better way to grow up, or have you young

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Speaker 1: and you your grand young inster to grow up in

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Speaker 1: Appalachian culture than I believe that's the best they are now.

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Speaker 1: Making money that ain't the best they are, but having

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Speaker 1: your family and being close to your family and having

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Speaker 1: good values to come to them. I think it's you

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Speaker 1: can't beaty. And actually the disastrous stuff like tornadoes and

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Speaker 1: we'll even flooding and stuff like as and the tornadoes

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Speaker 1: and stuff. I've never seen one here in mild why.

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Speaker 1: And I just think that's good cause down to Gwner

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Speaker 1: in some that flat country they had to worry about

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Speaker 1: it every time it comes strong. Yeah, I wouldn't like

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Speaker 1: to live like a Like I said, if you want

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Speaker 1: to make money, you better go somewhere else. Besides you're

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Speaker 1: I don't think it u it making money. And if

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00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 1: you can make it is only our to life. I

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Speaker 1: want to step back a generation and introduce you to

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Speaker 1: Mr Britt Davis, who is Mr Roy's father in law.

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Speaker 1: It was a great pleasure to briefly speak with him.

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Speaker 1: I was taken aback by his story, but mainly how

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Speaker 1: it seemed to him to be so common. Mr Britt,

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Speaker 1: How old are you? If I lived on the second

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Speaker 1: day of June, I'll be nanny ninety. What year were

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00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: you born? Thirty one? N one? So you grew up?

338
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Speaker 1: You were? Were you born in this hollow? Yeah? Right,

339
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: a little dar about And what kind of work did

340
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: you do your whole life? Yeah? I farm some, I

341
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 1: log some, and I worked about a year on this

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00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 1: interstate down here, and then went to work for the

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00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: County Road Department and stayed there retard. Have you ever

344
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 1: have you traveled much out of Appalachia? No, you've stayed

345
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Speaker 1: right here. I went to text this one time whenever

346
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: Roy was an army out there, and that's the only

347
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 1: trip I ever made. Really. I lived on up in

348
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Speaker 1: the Gulf up Third Well. I'd say we's up there

349
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Speaker 1: about full or five years because my daddy got killed

350
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Speaker 1: up there, and I enjoyed that up bur lot. How

351
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 1: did your how did your father get killed with a

352
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: low log rold over? Really? How old were you? I

353
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: was about to have your old Wow? How did that

354
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: impact your life? Well? You made it rough on me

355
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 1: for a while. Yeah, yeah, he's up there whenever the

356
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 1: about the time it started, but he got kill when

357
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: we lived that a long time for the got So

358
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: did you have to kind of were you the oldest son,

359
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 1: so you kind of had to take care of your family? Yeah?

360
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 1: Really so was that a lot of responsibility for you then? Yeah?

361
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: We moved back home here up here. Yeah, my grandparents

362
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: hit me with it, and I raised a croppoter back

363
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: and bought the place where I leave. Mm hmm. How

364
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: old were you? I'd say I was about thirteen? Really,

365
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: So you you raised a crop of tobacco when you

366
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Speaker 1: were thirteen and bought a piece of property. Wow. And

367
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 1: that's the property that we went to earlier today up

368
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: at the head of this holler. Yeah. Yeah, so you

369
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: bought that place when you were thirteen, I'll be daring.

370
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: And so you've lived you've lived there your whole life? Then,

371
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: whole life? What what are your earliest memories? Mr Brett,

372
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: oh Law, I can I can remember playings back then

373
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: better than again now. Really, I can remember my carrying

374
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: me and us to stopping and talking to her neighbors.

375
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: That was before we moved to the Gold So that

376
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: was in the nineteen thirties. Did your family have a car,

377
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 1: had automobile? No? No? What? How did you get around? Walked? Walked?

378
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 1: You didn't Everything you needed you could walk to get. Yeah,

379
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 1: this little stores all around here, three or four well,

380
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: I'd say it was in the late thirties or the

381
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: early fourties. Before that, there is there were a car

382
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: in this country, is that right? Doctor lived right up

383
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: Pearl there. He had the first tell me about how

384
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: the the doctor were worked in this community. He go

385
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: around in the and he's with his horse, and people

386
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: wanted to be doctored. They'd tyrant or a wife fig

387
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: on the mailbox and hea, he'd ride his horse up

388
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: to your house and knock on the door and say

389
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 1: what's wrong? And you finally got the car and they

390
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: do the same thing. Do you ever remember being sick

391
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: and him having to come to your house, the doctor

392
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: on you? Really? What what would you have been sick from?

393
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: Maybe the strip th old or or something, and he'd

394
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: come give you some penicillin maybe or something. That's what

395
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: you doctored with penicillin. Wow. When did electricity come back

396
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: in here? I'd say it was about fifty two or

397
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 1: fifty three for what I got it. So you were

398
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: in your twenties before you had electricity. Yeah, do you

399
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: remember those days? Oh? Yeah? What would what would you do?

400
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: Once it got dark? Would you light the house with

401
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 1: that open? Had l lamp? What kind of lamp? Was

402
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 1: the coal burning? And you would what would you do?

403
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: You would sit around with the family and just sit

404
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 1: around and go to bed. I guess that's they finally

405
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: got a ridio, Mr Brett. Do you remember when John F.

406
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,959
Speaker 1: Kennedy died president? Do you remember where you were? Was

407
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: that a significant rejective? Where I was where we has

408
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: a unter. I was running the road world Tom's Creek,

409
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: and I just partly got a paste old man's house

410
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: and he come out and run up the road behind

411
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: me in holiday and me and and told me about m hmm.

412
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: Do you hear what they're saying, Mr Brett? They're saying,

413
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: because you uh, because you were the only child, you've

414
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: been spoiled your whole life. Do you agree with that?

415
00:26:54,840 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: I wouldn't hardly say that. Wow, what a story. Back

416
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: to Mr Roy, I asked Mr Roy what he thought

417
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: about moonshine in the mountains. This is what he said.

418
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: And remember in part two, we're going to explore this

419
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: much more. My daddy and grandpa, an uncle and some

420
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: of their close friends and stuff probably turned me against

421
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: the drinking and stuff because they stayed drunk all the time.

422
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: So you don't drink. No, I ain't never drunk. I know.

423
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: We'd go get down peaches and we went and got

424
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: a load one time, and the peaches was overwrapped and

425
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: they was too shyp We couldn't didn't get to sell

426
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: me any but we had probably a hundred thirty bush

427
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 1: along the drug. So they made us hepsied peaches and

428
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: they put them in barrels and they made liquor out

429
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: of them peaches. And I don't know how many years

430
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: they drunk on it. But I don't take the shoulder

431
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: any And I always thought to myself, I ain't gonna

432
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: never drink because I put up with it my whole

433
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: life and I ain't gonna be like it for somebody

434
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: had to put up with me like it. Yeah, talk

435
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: to me about music in your family? What? What does

436
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: how have y'all? Well, y'all play easy. It's been in

437
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: my family. It goes way back. My grandmother was a

438
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: was a picker, and my daddy was a piker and

439
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: a singer and stuff and and I guess it's just

440
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: come right on day until So what kind of what

441
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: kind of music did they play? Mostly blue grass and

442
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: mostly ballot and stuff like that. They've shung And how

443
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: you sing? You sing and dance a little bit a

444
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: little bit? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe if we can

445
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: get them my whole line up here after a while,

446
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: we'll we'll draw the sute of this hill a little bit.

447
00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: Sounds good to me. While visiting the Clarks, I wasn't

448
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: shy about asking them if they'd play some music for me.

449
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: They obliged. I hope you'll join me in recognizing the

450
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: uniqueness of a legendary bear hunter, Mr Roy singing a

451
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: song about bear hunting. This is old slew foot. What's

452
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: what Songroy? What's what's this song about? It's a battle bar?

453
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: And and may I okay? And hi on a mountain

454
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: bunch tell me what she fardreck bird looking back at me?

455
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: He better eat you ra a boy for its dutlate.

456
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: The bar's got a little pie towards the games. Oh

457
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: eat figure around the middle, and he frout across the room,

458
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: running ninety miles and night, taking thirty feet at you.

459
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: Ain't never been cawdy, ain't never feed tree. Some folks

460
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: saved lord like me. I saved up my money and

461
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: I boughty some bees. They started making honeyway being the

462
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: tree cut down. The tree of my honey's all gone.

463
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: Oh slu footst made hisself at home. Oh eat figure

464
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: around the middle, and he frout across the room, running

465
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: ninety miles and night, taking thirty feet at you. Ain't

466
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: never been cawdy. Ain't ever been dry. Some folks says

467
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: a lot like me. Well, winners coming on, and it's

468
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: when he be low the river throws over. So where

469
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: can he go? We chase him up the galage and

470
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: me run him in the well. We shoot him in

471
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: the bottom to listen to him yell, Oh, he's big

472
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: around the middle, and he frought across the run, running

473
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: ninety miles and nur taking thirty feet Ain't never been cowdy,

474
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: ain't never been dry. Ain never had nobody after him

475
00:31:49,760 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: like me. That's good. While we're talking about music, I

476
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: want you to give ear to Oh Label Read. She

477
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: was born in nineteen sixteen and passed away in two

478
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: thousand two. She's Appalachian to the core, a folk singer,

479
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: a songwriter, a banjo player, and a philosopher. If you

480
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: listen to her talk and sing, you'll get a window

481
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: into Appalachia that cannot be replicated. In twenty nineteen, the

482
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: Library of Congress inducted her nineteen seventy three album titled

483
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: Oh Label Read, into the National Recording Registry. This is

484
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: a clip of that recording. Meet olabel Read one in

485
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: the mapping Prove the Hills and ballads through the red snow,

486
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: seen the lightning bleshing I've heard, but the roll I

487
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: haven't known how long. I've been asked many times to

488
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: describe my life in the mountains, and there's one point

489
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: that I specifically like to make and want to make,

490
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: is that I don't believe there would be anyway in

491
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: the world that you could possibly describe it. There could

492
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: be no fun made of it, because it was a

493
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: life with the earth, your elements, as the old people

494
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: called it, the birds, the animals, the bees, you knew

495
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: every you knew every season. You could tell. You were

496
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: raised to kind of tell when a storm was gonna come.

497
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: I always tell us because you could see the leaves

498
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: turning in the summertime. Particularly in the winter, you could

499
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: tell if it was going to snow because of the

500
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: base of the color of the base of the trees.

501
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: So many things you just grew up with that you

502
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: get away from as you go through life if you're

503
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 1: not careful. Now I'm not saying that you go strictly

504
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: back to the past, but I'm saying there's no way

505
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: in the where all that anybody could ever make fun

506
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: our poke fun at the way people were raised in

507
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: the mountains, because as far as the music is concerned,

508
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: we did gospel, we did blues, we did everything. I

509
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,919
Speaker 1: did not play what you would call I guess professionally,

510
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: I don't know. The word never just quite suited me.

511
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: But anyway, there had to be every nationality in the

512
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: mountains at one time for them to know each other's

513
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: ways of life. There was communication because I think people

514
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: needed one another and they realized, if you see, they

515
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: realized it's so much. And I believe one of the

516
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: reasons was as they were so close, really and truly,

517
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: because we were so close to the earth and the

518
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: elements into God's creation. I think that's the one thing

519
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 1: made him know. I think that all and your music

520
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: and everything comes through communication with people. And the people

521
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 1: that lived, they lived, like I said, with the earth.

522
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,959
Speaker 1: They had to make their living. That's why I'm saying,

523
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: you cannot separate your music from your lifestyle. You cannot

524
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: separate your lifestyle, your religion, your politics from your music.

525
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: It's a part of life. And that was what our

526
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: music was in the mountains. It was a part of

527
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: our life. Our man, Dr Dan Pierce of the University

528
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: of North Carolina asked, full is my new friend. He's

529
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: a national expert on the Appalachian region, and his love

530
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: of mountain culture has fueled his writing. He's the author

531
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: of numerous books that helped interpret the region's story in

532
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: a significant way. He's also known as u n c

533
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: Ashville's professional hillbilly. Meet Dr Dan Pierce. Well, I can't

534
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: introduce him without leaving a trail of fodder to part

535
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 1: two of this podcast. Here are a few of the

536
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: titles of his books, Tar Hill, Lightning, Corn from a Jar,

537
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 1: and Real NASCAR, but we'll get to all that later. So,

538
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: Dr Pierce, all the regions of America have been influenced

539
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: by immigration for the most part. Where did the people

540
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: from the southern Appalachians come from? Well, there there are

541
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: a lot of streams of immigration that come into the region,

542
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: and so you know, there is a there. There is

543
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 1: kind of a stereotype that the Appalachians are the Scots

544
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: Irish culture plopped down and being unchanged for hundreds of years.

545
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: The Scot's Irish were for sure in terms of the

546
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: dominant ethnic group that came to this region, but there

547
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: are lots of other groups. Are Germans, their English. Daniel

548
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,439
Speaker 1: Boone was an English Quaker. You know. You can't think

549
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: of a board Appalachian person than Daniel Boone, you know,

550
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,760
Speaker 1: and so you know that was not unusual, and so

551
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: and other you know, Moravians, and of course, uh this

552
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 1: is something that in recent years that scholars have looked

553
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: at a lot. More is that even though you can

554
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: go to lots of parts of Appalachia today, you can

555
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: go to joining counties here and you'll find only a

556
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: handful of African Americans, but there were significant numbers of

557
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: African Americans in every county and Appalachian. So that's a

558
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: part of that that stream as well. But again the

559
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: dominant group where the Scots Irish. And now would we

560
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: be in the Southern Appalachians here in North Carolina. Yeah,

561
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: that's the way you would in western North Yeah, from

562
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: really you know, northeast Alabama, North Georgia through East Tennessee,

563
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: Western North Carolina, western tip of Virginia, West Virginia and

564
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: eastern Kentucky the southern app that's the Southern Appalachians. So

565
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: the the Scots Irish people would they would be a

566
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: dominant feature of this region or at one time would

567
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: have been. Was this the only place they came or

568
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 1: were there other parts of Can you look at the

569
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: whole um what people refer to as the uplands south?

570
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: You know, this is like the non cotton belt, the

571
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: North Georgia, North Alabama, North Mississippi, much of Tennessee, you know,

572
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: western North Carolina all the way through to Texas, Arkansas.

573
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: The Scots one, people kind of look at this as

574
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 1: a you know, how can you be Scots and Irish?

575
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: And when you know what happens is in the Elizabethan

576
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: period the late fifteen hundreds the English conquered much of

577
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: our and during that period, and so Elizabeth and then

578
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: her successors gave what they called plantations or big tracts

579
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: of land to people who would help, you know, nobility,

580
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: you who had helped them out. And they didn't trust

581
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: the Irish. They were Catholic. They saw him as barbarians

582
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: and savages. A lot of the same imagery you're gonna

583
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: see when English people come to America and characterized Native

584
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: Americans in the same way. It's it's really kind of

585
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: kind of very interesting to look at. So to work

586
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,919
Speaker 1: their plantations, they imported people across the Irish c from

587
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: the lowlands of Scotland. So these are not there's a

588
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 1: lot of misconception in parts of the southern Appalachian region

589
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: that they think of there, you know, the bagpipes and

590
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: the plaids, and so these were not those Scots. Those

591
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 1: are Highlanders and these are lowland Scots. And so they

592
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: come over to northern Ireland and they and they worked

593
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: these plantations and they're pretty successful. They're raising sheep, they're

594
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: raising linen. They're there for you know, a hundred years

595
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: or a little more. But then I think the enemy changes.

596
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: Things get pretty bad for you know, rents go up dramatically,

597
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,919
Speaker 1: wool market declines, and America is opening up at that point,

598
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: and so you see it really hundreds of thousands of

599
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: people in Ulster, Northern Ireland, Protestants for the most part,

600
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: the Scots Irish begin to make the trip across the

601
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 1: Atlantic Ocean and they come in through Philadelphia. Then they

602
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: start moving into western Pennsylvania. Atlants taken up by Germans

603
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: and others who have been there before, the Germans and

604
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 1: the English. And so then they head down what's called

605
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 1: the Great Wagon Road, which is now eight one down

606
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: through the Shenandoah Valley Road. Yeah and so yeah, and

607
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 1: so they head down through the Shenandoah Valley and then

608
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: they end up in western Virginia and North Carolina, and

609
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: then as the Cherokee or driven out of the region

610
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: in the late seventeen hundreds, they move into the and

611
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 1: my ken lived in uh It was part to North

612
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: Carolina then, but it became Tennessee, the the northeastern part

613
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: of Tennessee, and then moved down the Holston and Tennessee

614
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: River valleys, and my folks settled in just south of

615
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: Knoxville between Knoxville and Chattanooga and then moved west from

616
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: there into West Tennessee, Arkansas and Texas, and so that

617
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: whole area really probably the dominant group and nominate ethnic group,

618
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: you know, probably you know, half or so or close

619
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: to it. Okay, that's a good that's a I was

620
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: gonna ask you that, like, how so if it wasn't

621
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: all Scots Irish, how much of it was so maybe, yeah,

622
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: but they had a you know, a huge cultural impact,

623
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: and they brought a lot of things with them. Can

624
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: you describe kind of the dominant features of the Scots

625
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: Irish and what they did bring over here? And also

626
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: my my end question. I don't want to stack them

627
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: too deep here, but it's you know, where do we

628
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: see that culture still displayed today? You know, and a

629
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: lot of things. Again, you can get a little carried

630
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: away and stereotype these things. For one, You've got to

631
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: understand the way culture works is that it's it's not

632
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: and and and later on, particularly the early twentieth century,

633
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: people from the outside who come to the region want

634
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: to characterize this region is being like preserved in amber

635
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: or something. You know, it looks like they're they is

636
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: locked in the past. You know, which is not at

637
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: all true because culture is always evolving. And when they

638
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 1: come here, of course they don't survive in this area

639
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: unless they learn from the Cherokee, because you you know again, okay,

640
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 1: you know, for one thing, these are not hunting people

641
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: when they come I mean everything in the British house,

642
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 1: you know, the only people that are hunting are people

643
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: in the noble well unless you're a poacher. Yeah, you're

644
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: not hunting over there. So when they come here, of

645
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 1: course that's gonna be part of their subsistence. Okay, who

646
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 1: teaches them to hunt? You know, Daniel Boone doesn't come

647
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: at this as a he has to learn who's he

648
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: learned from. He learned from the from the from the Cherokee,

649
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: from the Native of Erkins. In this area, there's a

650
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: lot there would have been some positive, friendly relationship between

651
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: some of these people and some of the Native Americans. Yeah,

652
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: I mean you actually see early on with people like Boone,

653
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: there's a period in Boone's life where, you know, and

654
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: there were a lot of concerns in communities and with

655
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: people about people going native, you know, because there were

656
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: things that were very appealing and there were some questions.

657
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: Boone was actually captured by the Shawnee and taken into

658
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: what's now Oho. There are some questions about did he

659
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: have a Shawnee wife, did he have a Shawnee family?

660
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: Was Boon tempted to stay with the Shawnee. But but

661
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: these people bring a lot of things with them and

662
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 1: the things that they brought. One of course, of the

663
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: biggest things that they bring in the music. And so,

664
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the music that we think

665
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: about is Appalachian as traditional and stuff like that is

666
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: music that has made the trip across the ocean. The

667
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 1: old ballads and the fiddle tunes and things like that.

668
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: You can trace a lot of the music that's even

669
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, some of it's you know, a lot of

670
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: it's still being performed today. There may be in a

671
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: very very American take on it. It may be a

672
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: ballad about the about Tom Tom Dooley, you know, who

673
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: who conspires with one of his lovers to kill another lover.

674
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: You know, that becomes a popular song very later on,

675
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: Or about Frankie Silvery's who's a woman who kills ruds

676
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: when he gets gets executed. You know. Yeah, well, you

677
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: know the ballads we're a big part of that and

678
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: those are always tragic, you know, there's there's always that

679
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: theme in these things. But that of course, you know,

680
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: those things get combined with other influences. For instance, like

681
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: we think in the banjo as being characteristically Appalachian, but

682
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: it's an African instrument, you know, so that's where that

683
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: comes from. So again it gets combined with their their

684
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: culture of music, just families that played music in the

685
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: social aspects of gathering everybody up, playing music that's legit.

686
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: I mean, that is a real part of Advocacian culture. Yeah,

687
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: you get these influences that are coming over and then

688
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: and again you throw other influences in, but it really,

689
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: you know, is shaped by in the eighteen hundreds in

690
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: particular about what I call front porch culture, and so

691
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 1: you get, you know, you get music that's suitable for

692
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: a front porch or or folk tales or dancing, that

693
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: type of thing, you know, is largely influenced by what

694
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: the Scots Irish bring and and this is reinforced by

695
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: the area. But but you know they're bringing with him.

696
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: And again you can get real carried away with stereotypes.

697
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 1: Jim Webb, who was a senator, from what I think Virginia.

698
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: You know, you wrote a book on Scottsire is called

699
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 1: born Fighting, you know, and so you can get carried away,

700
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: but there is that independent streak of you're not going

701
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: to tell me what to do, and that's really reinforced

702
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 1: because people are living, you know, the way that they

703
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: the region is settled is very different from than say

704
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: like eastern Pennsylvania, where people tend to live in communities,

705
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: you know, but people are living in kind of scattered

706
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: I mean part and it's partly geography. You know, that

707
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: people are living in scattered so there's not a lot

708
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: of bottom land. So that what I'm hearing you say

709
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: is the geographic features of like we're in some pretty

710
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: rough country here, a lot of a lot of topography,

711
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,280
Speaker 1: a lot of elevation change and just steep mountains and stuff.

712
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: So there there just wasn't a big flat spot for

713
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: a big city to be have. It was like some

714
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 1: some family was down in this hollow and another family

715
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: was over here, and I mean you had communities, but

716
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: that that reinforced kind of isolation independence. Yeah, it works together.

717
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: The culture they're bringing with them with the topography really

718
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:43,439
Speaker 1: kind of does reinforce that that sense of rugged or

719
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 1: some people would call it cussod independence that uh, you know,

720
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 1: I think it's still much um there, and I think

721
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: again it's a kind of combination of culture and geography.

722
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 1: And another thing that you know is very much part

723
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: of that is making lick liquor. There we've said it.

724
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: To understand the impacts in the real story of how

725
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: Moonshine has attached itself to this region, you'll have to

726
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: listen to part two of this series. We're saving it.

727
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of these people when they came,

728
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: I mean one, they brought in their head the knowledge

729
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,720
Speaker 1: of how to make whiskey. And in many cases they

730
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, they brought us still with them, and so

731
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: this is an important part. You know, you look at

732
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,479
Speaker 1: how people lived in this region for a long time,

733
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 1: and there's still a few you know, it's primarily subsistence,

734
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: you know there and again you know, you you you

735
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: throw in other influence because they're not bringing their culture

736
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: and plopping it down. But you know, for instance, you know,

737
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: the grain that they're going to grow is not barley

738
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: or wheat, or it's gonna be corn, you know, which

739
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: is not which they learned when they got here. You

740
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: know from the Native Americans and so but they you know,

741
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,240
Speaker 1: they're raising most of their food, and then they're also

742
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: one of the things they bring with them, although there

743
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:09,720
Speaker 1: are a number of them already here that the Spanish

744
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: brother are hogs, and hogs are incredibly important and it's

745
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: a some people refer to this as a as a

746
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: hog and hominy economy because it's corn. You know, the

747
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: staples are corn and pork. Dr Pierce, How has this

748
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: culture been stigmatized in the negative way nationally? That's my

749
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: number one question. Number two question is how have we

750
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: glorified it in maybe ways that it didn't deserve. Yeah,

751
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: and actually that's those stereotypes cut both ways. It's it's

752
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 1: really interesting. But you see in the late eight one,

753
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: Appalachia enters a period prior to the Civil War, the

754
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: sudden Appalachian reading with a pretty good poor man's country.

755
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: I mean, you could could subsist pretty well. But in

756
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: the aftermath of war, a lot of things change. I mean,

757
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 1: one of the devastational war itself, and people don't think

758
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: about Appalachian the war, but there was really an internal

759
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: war going on here and then you know so much,

760
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: you know, so many men were lost because so many

761
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: men were either volunteered or were conscripted into both armies.

762
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: You know, there are significant numbers of people in the

763
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: Southern Appalachian reason they're fighting for the Union. And there's

764
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 1: community warfare you know between you know, kind of armed

765
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: malicious uh during this time. And so there's that that was,

766
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: and then what they called um impressment, where the particularly

767
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: Confederate army come in and say, okay, I need I

768
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: need your hawks, you know, and they would write you

769
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: out a receipt and say okay, go to the county

770
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 1: seat and you can get compensated in Confederate money, you

771
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 1: know for this. You know, you can't replace your hogs

772
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: or your horses or your mule or anything like that

773
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: that they're taking in that So the war itself, but

774
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: then after the war you get a number of things

775
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: that happened. One is that population grows and you know

776
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: so many and people had you know, pretty sizeable hundred

777
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: fifty to underd acre far before the war. You know,

778
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: they have families of like and kids or more, and

779
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: so when you die, you divide that up. It doesn't

780
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: take many generations to where you've got a farm that's

781
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: really not able to support a family and so and

782
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: and what do you do well? In increasing there's a

783
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: lot of land around here. There's not a whole lot

784
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 1: of good flat riverine farm land, you know, so you

785
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: start farming on land you shouldn't farm. And of course

786
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: it's just it. It exhausts very quickly, it eroads, it's

787
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 1: you know, and so it's just increasingly hard. And then

788
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: other things. You get the changing of the fence laws

789
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons, where now you have to

790
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: keep your animals pinned up. You can't free range anymore,

791
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: and so that really cuts into the whole livestock thing.

792
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: And and it becomes cheaper because of the railroads to

793
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: bring pork in from Cincinnati or somewhere like then, and

794
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: then the producer yourself, and so your market's gone, you know.

795
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: For another cash crop, you get the excise tax on liquor,

796
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: you know, and so all these ways, it's it's just

797
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: kind of a huge it's almost a conspiracy. You know.

798
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: You look at it and say, you know, everything bad

799
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: that could happen could happen, and so it's harder and

800
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: hard to make a living on the farm, you know.

801
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 1: And so you know, poverty, and of course education becomes

802
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: less of a priority in an environment like that. And

803
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: and this is a time when you get people coming

804
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: into the region and quote discovering Appalachia and kind of

805
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: defining Appalachia is this kind of different, unique kind of place.

806
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: And so you get a lot of these what are

807
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,399
Speaker 1: called local color writers who come in and they write

808
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: these stories, you know, and a lot of the stereotypes. Well,

809
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 1: and at the same time you're also having a in

810
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: the eighteen seventies eighteen eighties, you have what's called the

811
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: Moonshine Wars in the region where the federal government really

812
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: starts cracking down, and so the national press comes in

813
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,879
Speaker 1: and they're covering and sensationalizing it and then characterizing these

814
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: people as these brutish, ignorant, you know type people. And

815
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: so you're getting these images nationally, you know, and everything.

816
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,439
Speaker 1: You know, again, it is po already, it's ignorance, it's

817
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 1: and the media back then was probably much like it

818
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 1: is today. They're trying to sensationalize anything they can, probably right,

819
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 1: and so they love these stories of these shootouts between

820
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: revenue A that's he, that's right, and and the hat

821
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: fields and with coys, you know, and feuge and they

822
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 1: love huge, you know, and so it just all plays

823
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: into this image well you know, and that and that

824
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: image is perpetuated over the years in just incredible way,

825
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 1: you know, because then you know, so you get books,

826
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: you get the uh, the media you get, and then

827
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: you get movies. You know, a lot of the early

828
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 1: silent movies worthise, you know what what one historian called

829
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 1: the moonshine and feud movies, you know, and then you

830
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: get into music and and uh, those stereotypes in many ways,

831
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 1: and they're just perpetuated about the region. You know. You

832
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 1: see the the bumper stickers around here that people think

833
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 1: are funny, you know, it's you know, it's just paddle faster,

834
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: I hear band and chokes. So you know, you get

835
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. This still, I mean, it's amazing

836
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: cause we have so many people coming to this part

837
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 1: of western North Carolina from Florida, from New York or

838
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: New Jersey or something, and they come here, and it's amazing.

839
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: These could be highly educated people, but they you know,

840
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: they're fearful, you know, of going outside the Asheville city

841
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: limits because of you know those people, you know, and

842
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: they really really do fear them, you know, and so

843
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 1: but again it's just magnified and it seems like, you know,

844
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 1: in an era where you know, people are very uh like, well,

845
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: you don't stereotype people, you know, we don't do that,

846
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: you know, and we look at people's individuals. But the

847
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: one group that seems to be fair game. I mean,

848
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 1: all you have to do is turn on the cable TV.

849
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: You know, it seems like it's it's it's people, well,

850
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: people from Arkansas and people people from the Ozar, people

851
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 1: from the southern Appalachian region. So that's that's fair games. Still,

852
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,320
Speaker 1: and so again you get into all these these bizarre

853
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 1: stereotype you know, it seems like what I'm hearing you

854
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: say is that poverty was the driver for most of this. Yeah, yeah,

855
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Yeah, and of capturing the region at a

856
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: certain moment, you know, when they were in abject poverty,

857
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: you know, and then and then extending that, you know,

858
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,320
Speaker 1: for time immemorial. You know, if we're talking about poverty,

859
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 1: if you if you think about like kind of the

860
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 1: legs were taken out economically of this group of people,

861
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: and if they had been in a place that had

862
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,760
Speaker 1: massive river systems for transport, or had incredible crop land,

863
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 1: or had some incredible natural resource that could have stimulated

864
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: the their economy. They the whole culture would have been different.

865
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: But like, these mountains are so rough and rugged and

866
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 1: hard to live in that when the way they originally

867
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: started living was taken out, poverty came in. Like again,

868
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about how the natural landscape affects different places.

869
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: Because if this had been a port, you know, if

870
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 1: there had been an ocean here, like they would have

871
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: you know, but this is inland. This is a kind

872
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: of isolated again, thinking about how the landscape affects these cultures.

873
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: But well it does, and and you can get carried

874
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: away on on exaggerating isolation, you know, because there were

875
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: a lot there were most people, i mean, particularly by

876
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century, people are generally not too far

877
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 1: from a railhead, you know, and and they're you know,

878
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 1: the thing that amazes people is that people because you

879
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: look at it now and you see all these forests

880
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: and everything. But again, i mean, this whole region was

881
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: clear cut, right, So this wasn't and there were railroads

882
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: up into every covid holler in the region here, uh,

883
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: and then but then a lot of it, you know,

884
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: the federal government came in, the Forest Service brought it up,

885
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 1: and then you've got national parks and stuff like that,

886
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: and so you know a lot of it's now reforested

887
00:55:55,400 --> 00:56:00,320
Speaker 1: different as well. So but you know, isolation is is there,

888
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: and it limits your opportunity. So again you you face that,

889
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 1: you know, how do I live? You know, and so

890
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: you're you're either pretty crafty or you you live at

891
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: a very level or you leave. I'll tell you what

892
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:17,439
Speaker 1: Dolly Parton is like fascinating to me. I mean, we

893
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: we grew up, you know, listening to some of her stuff, like,

894
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:24,240
Speaker 1: but when you come here in the Appalachia, especially pretty

895
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 1: close to pigeon forage and severe able, there's just something

896
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: that the world just loves about this lady that was

897
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: really a true Appalachian at a very maybe common Appalachian upbringing,

898
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: just you know, one room, log cabin pour and coming

899
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 1: out of that. Her influence in this region is notable.

900
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: What I mean by Dolly's influence is notable is the

901
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 1: sheer number of billboards and images of Dolly that you

902
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: see here. Much of it is fueled by the Dolly

903
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: Parton theme park called Dollywood. I wish they would sponsor

904
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: this podcast Saw the Meteator, folks could get tickets. I

905
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: digress and I think, I mean, Dolly's obviously exceptional, but

906
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,879
Speaker 1: I think she illustrates a lot of things that are

907
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: important to the region. One, I think, you know, because

908
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: of that whole stereotype about ignorant hillbillies that I think

909
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: Dolly illustrates there, you know, and the and in the

910
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: deeper you look, you see, I mean, you know, poverty

911
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: has a huge impact on this but you have so

912
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: many people who have come out of this this region

913
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 1: who are you know, just incredibly creative intelligences, entrepreneurs, I mean,

914
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: just creators, you know, and uh, you know there are

915
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: shaped by their experience in this region, you know. And

916
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: Dolly is obviously you know, to um you underestimate uh

917
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: Dolly Parton at your peril. But at the same time,

918
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 1: Dolly has very effectively done something that a lot of

919
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: Appalachian people have done. And so stereotypes can be damaging,

920
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: but in some ways they can be beneficial. And if

921
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: you're smart and you know how to use it, you

922
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: make a lot of money off the Appalachian stereotypes. And

923
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 1: Dolly has made a lot of She plays the innocent hillbilly,

924
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: nave country girl card. But yeah, you don't have to

925
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: look very deep to see that she is a genius

926
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: in a lot of Wells. There's a friend of mine

927
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 1: named Wayne Colwell's novelist, and he wrote a book called

928
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: Requing by Fire, which is about a community and the

929
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: Smoky's when they create the National Park, you know, they

930
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: remove people, and these people go to a neighboring community

931
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: and they got a bunch of stuff from their barn,

932
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: and so they buy an all gas station, you know,

933
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 1: and they kind of put the stuff out, you know,

934
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: and make some souvenirs and stuff like that for the tourists.

935
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:00,919
Speaker 1: And so, you know, one day they're sitting in their store.

936
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: They you know, the business hasn't been too good since

937
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 1: they first started out, you know, when somebody comes in

938
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: and one of the women's kind of playing around. She

939
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 1: she finds an old body, you know, which was her

940
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: grandmother's and she puts that on, you know, and then

941
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: somebody comes in the store and it's like, oh man,

942
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: these are real you know hill billies or whatever, you know,

943
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 1: And then the guys start, well, we're gonna play into

944
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: that so they start wearing overalls, you know, and carving

945
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: you know, little geehawl womy diddles or whatever, you know,

946
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: that kind of playing in the stairs. And so, you know,

947
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: it's basically the idea that, Okay, you're gonna have the

948
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: stereotype of me, and so I'm gonna play into that

949
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 1: stereotype and sell it back to you. And so that's

950
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: what Dolly is doing in any way. She's selling that stereotype, uh,

951
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 1: in many ways, and it's very effective. And I have

952
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 1: to admit that I you know, um, you know, being

953
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 1: in academia, you know, and I kind of played to

954
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: the stereotype sometimes. I think, you know, I'll never forget

955
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: the look on a on a on the face of

956
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: a chancellor and and most of the administrators when I

957
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: was on this committ and and uh, we were talking

958
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: about something. I don't remember what it was, but you know,

959
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: the very serious kind of thing. And so I go,

960
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: I kind of had a different view than they did,

961
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: and I said, well, let me throw this gunk into

962
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: the middle of the table. And they kind of looked

963
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 1: at me like, who are you. Well, they got their attention.

964
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 1: You know, I don't really know what to say to

965
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 1: conclude in a statement stating what I've learned. I think

966
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: I can trace my deep respect for rural people back

967
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: to my dad. He was a banker in a rural

968
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: town in the mountains, and when he came home from

969
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 1: his white collar job, he didn't tell me about the

970
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 1: people that lived within the boundaries of the city. He

971
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 1: told me stories about the loggers, the moss gatherers, the

972
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: cattle farmers, and the hunters, because the people that mainstream

973
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: society didn't celebrate. It taught me not to take society's

974
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: word for who has value you and who doesn't. I

975
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: don't know if he did that on purpose, but he

976
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: marketed these people to me as if they were legends.

977
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 1: People like James Lawrence by Province and who you've met today,

978
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: Roy Clark, Mr Britt Davison our hero type figures to me.

979
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: None of these men ever asked for attention. I'm certain

980
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 1: many of you can identify people like this in your life.

981
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 1: Aside from being notable woodsmen, their trend is consistent. They

982
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: proved a high level of character through the use of

983
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 1: negative things in their life to build something positive. They

984
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 1: didn't let scarcity difficulty. They're hard times defined their life,

985
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: and they're all humble. None of these men are perfect,

986
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 1: but they have a unique brand of character. I believe

987
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: their stories are worthy to be told. There are no

988
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: answers in life foul by moving backwards, and I hope

989
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: the frequency of these stories doesn't cast too much of

990
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: a lustful eye on the past. But my hope is

991
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: that by looking back will become appropriately relevant for a

992
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 1: successful future. I'm glad to be alive. We were put

993
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 1: here for such a time as This Appalachian Mountain culture

994
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 1: is fascinating, and I continue to stand on the idea

995
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 1: that a person who can appreciate their own culture is

996
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: more apt to appreciate the culture of another. It's cold,

997
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: feels spring and favor love, springing way and the red

998
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: light all I say, You're faint. A many from my tea,

999
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 1: only them be Incess