WEBVTT - Rory Kennedy - Summer Staff Picks 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.440 This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:07.840 the Thing from iHeart Radio. It's summer and that means 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:10.640 it's time for our tradition at Here's the Thing. Will 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.640 the staff share their favorite episodes from our archives in 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:20.240 our Summer staff Picks series? Next up is producer Zach MacNeice. 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:24.479 Thanks Alec. On January fifth of this year, twenty twenty four, 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.320 on Alaska Airline's Boeing seven three seven Max nine made 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.360 an emergency landing in Portland, Oregon after a piece of 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.960 the fuselage blew out of the plane. Five days later, 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:38.640 on January fourteenth, a Boeing seven three seven eight hundred 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.640 was forced to turn around and land in Japan after 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.760 a crack was found mid air on the cockpit window. 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.680 On March seventh, a Boeing seven seven seven two hundred 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.120 made an emergency landing in Los Angeles after attire fell 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:56.920 off the plane during takeoff. And today, July thirty first, 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:01.000 Boeing has named a new CEO, Robert Ortberg, after announcing 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:03.920 a one point four billion dollar loss in the second 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:06.720 quarter of the year. These are just a few of 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.480 the many recent Boeing headlines In the past two and 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.640 a half years since the release of Rory Kennedy's documentary Downfall, 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.319 The Case against Boeing. Alex spoke with Rory in March 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.600 of twenty twenty two, and I couldn't think of a 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.959 better time to revisit this conversation about the film, The 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.679 Great American Company and Rory Kennedy's incredible life as a 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:27.880 documentary filmmaker. 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:35.280 My guest today comes from the most legendary of American families. 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:40.039 Rory Kennedy is the youngest daughter of Senator Robert F. 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.240 Kennedy and the niece of President John F. 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:42.840 Kennedy. 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.800 But as she will tell us during our conversation, she's 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.880 also one of the great Kennedy Women. Instead of following 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:55.240 her forbears into law or politics, Kennedy has made a 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:59.440 name for herself as a documentary filmmaker. Her films feature 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.440 a wide range of subjects, from surfing legend Laird Hamilton 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:08.920 to challenging issues like poverty, addiction, and mental illness. In 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:13.840 her current film, she's tackling corporate corruption. That film, Downfall 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:18.400 the Case against Boeing, investigates the circumstances that led to 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:23.200 two tragic passenger jet crashes. In twenty eighteen and nineteen, 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.320 Rory Kennedy and I talk about her remarkable upbringing and 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.880 how the people she's encountered in her life have influenced 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:31.959 her trajectory. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.560 I think it's hard to detach anybody from how they 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.800 grew up, right, I mean, that's such an influence and 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.240 impact on who you become. And certainly that was the 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:43.800 case with me. 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:45.919 I grew up. 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:50.000 The youngest of eleven and in an obviously a very 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.799 political family, and I was impacted by that. I mean 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.120 I was also surrounded, my mother made a point of 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.519 this by really extraordinary role models, you know, when we 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:07.000 had such a the honor of meeting, whether it was 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.560 you know, presidents or congressmen and senators or people like 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:15.600 Nelson Mittndela and Desmond Tutu, you know, who were in 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:19.880 our homes, and also some of the great athletes and 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.520 you know NASA astronauts. 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:24.480 I mean, so, I think. 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.200 It was a life where we were surrounded by people 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:33.360 who created a sense of aspiration and to try to 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:35.160 make the world a bit of a better place. 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.800 Now, what would you say though, that, as you're making 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:43.280 a film, do you have protocols, rules, tenets, whatever word 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:45.040 you want to use, where you sit there and say 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:46.960 that's not something I'm going to do that's influenced by 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.640 the way your family's been treated. If you're making a 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.000 film and let's say some aspect of a story, there's 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:56.640 a very kind of scandalizing, tawdry to shy away from 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:58.280 that is the way you guys have been attacked from 0:03:58.320 --> 0:03:58.920 time to time. 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:03.800 I think I have certain sensitivities. For example, with Downfall, 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:07.400 the case against Boeing, there's three hundred and forty six 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.960 people who died, and there are the family members who 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:15.040 are related to those people, some of whom we talked 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.360 to in our film, And I was definitely thinking, well, 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:20.560 how is it going to be for these folks to 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:24.520 watch this film right? And I've had to see scenes 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.760 over and over again that play themselves out on the 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.880 news that are very upsetting to watch about my family 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:34.440 dying right and being killed, and I didn't want to 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.440 subject them to that. But I also wanted to make 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:42.400 a film that was impactful. We do cgi recreations of 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:44.400 what it was like to be in the cockpit so 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.719 that we could really help people understand the perspective of 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.839 the pilots in these planes and what they were struggling 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.480 with with the MCS system. And you know, but I thought, 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:56.800 how are these folks going to watch this film? So 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:00.240 when I sent the film to them before it's coming out, 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.039 I highlighted all the sections that I thought would be 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.960 hard for them to watch, so that they could be 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.920 aware of that and go into it and decide to 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.359 watch those sections or not. So, you know, maybe I 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:16.760 have some sensitivity and moments like that. I think the 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:21.480 types of films I choose generally tend to be political 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.120 in nature and tend to you know, I hope when 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:28.440 people watch these films, whether it's this or a film 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:32.440 about Vietnam, the final days of the war, film about 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:37.400 Abu Grabe, that we learned from them, and we learn 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:43.200 from watching these stories and hopefully make better choices moving forward. 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:43.560 Right. 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.360 So, I think the choices of the films I make 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.800 are certainly impacted by the family I grew up in. 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:51.880 It's interesting that you mentioned that, and this is only tangential, 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:55.360 but remember being invited years ago Clinton was in. 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:55.839 The White House. 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:57.760 I was invited to the White House to a screening 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:02.200 of the movie The Paper Howard, and I'm sitting in 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.159 a seat in the theater and the woman to my 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.039 right who's sitting next to me. A gun goes off 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.800 in the middle of the film, and that woman grabbed 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:13.080 my arm and gasped this huge gasp when the gun 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:13.440 went off. 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.919 It was your mom, right, So you know there's. 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:21.120 Me to this day, it's she's not prepared for that. Yeah, 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:21.719 those sounds. 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.360 Yeah, so there's trauma related to that for sure. 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:26.120 Now to get to the film. 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.560 So I watched this film obviously, and I was mesmerized. 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.080 Congratulations by the way. I mean, you came to the 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:36.679 Hampton's Film Festival. Every year a film of yours comes 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.760 and we all look at together and we're like, can 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:42.520 we really invite her again? Do we bringing Rory down 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.240 to Easthampton again? I mean, is it enough enough? I mean, 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.560 how much more can we shine her up here? But 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:49.600 we loved your film about your mom. We're gonna get 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.760 to that later. I loved Last Days of Vietnam. That 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.200 was a great I'm not just saying this, that's a 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:59.160 great movie. Great movie. Really, just you what film can 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.800 do in this period of what's happening and understanding that 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.200 those moments that you did a great job and this 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:09.440 film made me angry this film. I was pissed off 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.840 because only one guy I think is criminally charged. Correct, 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.600 that's correct, and that we identify that person, Mark Forkner. 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:19.679 And he was in charge of what it is bowing. 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:24.200 He was a pilot, a test pilot, and he was 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.640 you know, he really wasn't responsible for what happened, and 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.880 a lot of people feel like he was scapegoaded because 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.480 he was really in charge of making sure, you know, 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.080 he was testing the plane and then he played a 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:43.040 role in keeping the MCS system away from the regulators. 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.880 And that's documented and there's proof of that, and so 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:50.480 they followed up with that. But you know, Congressman Defaisio, 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:55.920 for example, led the congressional investigation into what happened, the 0:07:55.960 --> 0:08:00.440 biggest investigation the Infrastructure and Transportation Committee's history, and he 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.560 concluded that this was really top down right, that the 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:09.840 top group in management at Boeing was very aware of 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.080 the MCS system, that there was a concerted effort to 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:18.120 keep the system away from the regulators, to hide the system, 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.880 and to cut corners along the way, and that there 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.520 was you know, it was a culture of concealment, is 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.400 what he calls it. So I think that there are 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.200 a lot of people who feel like the folks who 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:34.439 are most responsible have yet to be held accountable. And 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.800 there's been no criminal charges. And you know, Lallenberg walked 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.040 away with the head of Boeing, the head of Boeing 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:44.600 sixty sixty two million dollars. So, you know, I think 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:48.200 after you've kind of watched the film and really understand 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.640 all the decisions that the management at Boeing made along 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:57.800 the way to prioritize profit over safety, that you know, 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.080 when you understand the depths of those choices that I 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:03.400 think many people like you are outraged. 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:05.880 Well for people, I don't want to I want them 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:07.520 to see the film obviously, but I want to give 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.960 them just a taste of So Boeing wants to create 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:12.600 I'll let you fill in the blank. So they want 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:17.000 to create a fleet. They're losing market share, they're getting 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.000 their hat handed to them by Airbus. Things are not 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.360 looking good for Boeing, who had been dominant around the 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.040 world for decades and then and were the pride of 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.240 not just Seattle but the United States aviation industry, and 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.319 then the things start to go down from so they 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.920 want to play ketchup and they want to produce a 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.480 lower cost, more fuel efficient I think was the goal 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:39.679 of the seven seven thirty seven MAX. Got to get 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:41.720 the word max and there the seven thirty seven fuel 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.040 efficiency was the goal. And then a part of this 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.160 was the development of this system which was to help 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.480 to so they don't make too steep a climb. 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:50.199 A system takes. 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.199 Over the plane and lowers the nose of the plane 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.280 and forces the plane down, but doesn't shut off. It 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.240 forces the nose of the plane down straight into the ground. 0:09:58.320 --> 0:09:58.760 Correct. 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.640 Well, yeah, that's there were concern at a certain angle 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:06.480 that the plane would stall, and so they instead of 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.920 changing the kind of structure of the plane and moving 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.320 the engines and whatnot, they decided to fix it with 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:18.160 a computer system, again in an effort to save money, 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:22.800 it seems, and that computer system was connected to one 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.920 sensor on the side of the airplane like a weather vein, 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:31.320 and so if that sensor was damaged, which happens off 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.160 and gets hit by bird, something happens to it, it 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:38.280 would send and this is what happened, erroneous information to 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.199 the computer system. So it would tell the computer system 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.800 that the plane was at a certain angle and you 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.520 needed to push the nose down, but it wasn't at 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.240 that angle. It was more at a flat angle, and 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.760 not only would it push the nose of the plane down, 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.640 but it would do it over and over and over again. 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.440 Probably the most powering details you covered the film is 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.480 and the pilots were not told about the installation of 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:03.120 this system. 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.880 That's correct, it's you know, prior to the Line air crash, 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:13.040 which was the first crash, the pilots were completely unaware 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.680 that the system was even on the airplane, which was 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.760 also kind of flew in the face of what had 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:25.720 been the normal relationship between Boeing and pilots, which was 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:30.120 to really educate and form pilots about everything training, you know, 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:34.040 make them fully equipped to handle any situation that would happen. 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.720 But in this case they in an effort to really 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.720 keep this from regulators. Really, what was motivating them is 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:45.960 that if they have a totally new system on the airplane, 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.360 then they have to train pilots. And if they have 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.400 to train pilots, it cost them a million dollars per 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.640 an aircraft, you know, on average to train these pilots. 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:59.440 So they wanted to again it seems, save the money, 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.240 and so instead of making people aware that this system 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.760 was on the airplane. They made a concerted effort to we're. 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:11.480 Not even going to tell you about this machine we've installed, which, 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.559 if it behaves badly, is going to crash the plane. Yes, 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:18.040 and there's a manual override that they might have been 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.480 able to activate. They could have gotten out of it, 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:22.160 I guess if they'd had the training. 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.880 If they had had the training. Except what we also 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.720 discover and showcase in the course of this film is 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:33.839 a document that came out in twenty sixteen. It's called 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.600 a coordination sheet that shows that if something went wrong 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:41.000 with the system, that the pilots would need to fix 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:45.400 it within ten seconds, otherwise the power of the MCS 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:47.800 system would overtake them if they didn't do it in 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:49.000 ten seconds, and. 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:50.920 The results would be catastrophic. 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:55.160 And catastrophic in airplane language means the plane will crash 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.440 and everybody will die. So you know, even if the 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:03.280 pilots right. So in the second instance, in the Ethiopian 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.720 airplane crash, the pilots were aware of the system, they 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.640 did everything right, they did what they were told to do, 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.760 and the plane still crashed. So you know, if you 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.920 don't and what you have to also remember, and this 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.320 is why we also created the kind of the CGI 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.719 recreation of what happens in that cockpit is there's this 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:27.640 cacophony of sounds and error alerts that are all contradicting 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.440 each other that the pilots are trying to understand and 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.400 navigate and figure out. Okay, this is thing where you know, 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:38.800 the altitude is in disagreement, the air speed is in disagreement, 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.800 the all systems alert is on the stickshaker is going, 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.360 there's all of these alerts coming at them, and then 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.800 with that they have to navigate. Okay, well, what this 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.000 all means is that I need to do these steps 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:57.680 within ten seconds and otherwise this plane is going to crash. 0:13:57.840 --> 0:13:59.240 I mean, I don't want to go on a plane 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.120 that is putting pilots in that position. I don't want 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:03.160 to put my children. 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:06.960 Or fa people are whose job who'd give anything to 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:10.199 save the lives of their passengers. Think of something more 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.360 unimaginable than to be on the in the cockpit of 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.840 a plane and the plane is behaving and not in 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:19.560 some anomalous way. You see yourself hurtling towards the ground. 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.200 It's yeah, nine to eleven. You're the planes going into 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.040 the ground and you're sitting there thinking what can you 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:25.600 and you don't know what to do? 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.400 Yeah, right, it's completely funny. You know, maybe they're eating 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:29.360 a turkey sandwich. 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.160 You know, it does not like you're not there sitting 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.360 there on total alert for the entire plane ride. 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.080 Well, before we get into the macro of your filmmaking, 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.240 one more thing. I think you make it clear in 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.880 the film the idea that this is a different Boeing. 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.960 At this point, I thought it was fascinating how you 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.640 talk about the move to Chicago. They moved the headquarters 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:53.440 to Chicago for the purposes of distancing themselves from the influence, and. 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.120 I thought it was well that the influence was good. 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:56.520 It was a nice battery. 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:01.239 It was a nice exchange between Union's management, design, technology, 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.880 and the corporate And these guys are like, no, no, no, 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:05.600 we don't want to be too close to those guys 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.640 in Seattle. So we're going to move to Chicago so 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.400 we can make our decisions in this bubble in Chicago. 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:15.120 And it seems like what was a great company that rare, 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.880 I mean, multi billion dollar enterprise. It made big, expensive 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.720 things that they were very proud of that defined the city, 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.720 and everything moves to Chicago, and it seems like that's 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.640 part of the problem was once that merger was made 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.840 and they moved to Chicago, that cost cutting thing becomes primary. 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:33.720 I think that's right, you know. 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.760 I think, like you, I love Boeing and what Boeing 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.280 stood for in this country, and you know the history 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.440 of Boeing, and we really celebrate that in the film 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:47.400 because it's been an extraordinary company for decades. You know, 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.160 it helped us get out of World War Two. It 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:52.560 helped build the fighter jets to win that war. It 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:53.760 helped get us. 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:55.640 To the moon with my uncle Jack. 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.960 I mean, they helped build those engines in the rocket chips. 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.920 They helped people be able to travel all over the 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.040 world for the first time, you know, with the seven 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:11.040 forty seven and extraordinary accomplishment. So we wanted to celebrate that. 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.800 And during those very early years and for many decades, 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:18.640 Boeing did one thing, which was to say, we're going 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:23.680 to prioritize excellence and safety and then the profits will follow. 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.160 We're going to make the best planes possible, We're going 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.640 to innovate, we're going to do new things and we're 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.000 going to think to the future. And then it changed hands, 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.600 taken over really. I mean, one person we interviewed said 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:42.320 somehow McDonald douglas bought Boeing with Boeing's money and the 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:46.120 McDonald douglas people were put in charge, and they had 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:50.000 a very different business model, which was very Wall Street 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:55.120 focused and quarterly earnings, you know, And so they made 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.720 a series of decision corporate decisions to cut back on 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:03.160 personnel who's whose job it was to ensure safety and 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.920 put pressure on the folks who are building the planes 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.640 to build them quicker and faster, and when people would 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:13.400 complain about safety, that slows that process down. 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:20.080 Documentary filmmaker Rory Kennedy. If you enjoy conversations about the 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.760 making of documentary films, check out my episode with British 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:28.280 filmmaker Lucy Walker. Her documentary Bring Your Own Brigade is 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.840 an in depth look at California wildfires and their effect 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:33.640 on local residents. 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:35.760 What I want to understand is, well, how are we 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.520 stopping it and why are people living in these areas 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.840 and building these houses that burn over and over and 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.760 over again. Could we do better? So you would think 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.480 that when people look at developing an area for housing. 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:54.159 They would think about far safety, but nobody's actually thinking about, 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:55.960 well are they going to be able to ensure these 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.200 homes and who's going to pay if these homes burn down. 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:04.200 To hear more of my conversation with Lucy Walker, go 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.760 to Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, Rory 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.879 Kennedy and I discussed the filmmakers who have influenced her work. 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.200 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:30.240 Filmmaker Rory Kennedy has made more than forty documentaries. Her 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:34.000 work has earned an Emmy and several Oscar nominations along 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.720 the way. I wanted her to share some of her 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:38.600 process as a filmmaker. 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:43.280 Well, you know, different people and companies work in different ways. 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.200 I'm very hands on as a filmmaker, and I you know, 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.919 I love to be doing all the interviews and being 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.840 in the edit room, and so I don't take on 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.800 a huge number of projects at any given time. And 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.520 usually when I decide that I really want to do 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.679 a particular project, I really try to make it happen. 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.760 I was really committed. I felt like this story was 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.960 so important, the downfall story. I think, like so many 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:13.400 other people, I witnessed these two airplanes crashing within five 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:16.000 months of each other, the exact same aircraft. Three hundred 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:20.280 and forty six people died. And you know, I, like 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.560 so many other people, fly right, and I felt like, 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.320 I want to know what happened, who knew what when, 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.359 who is responsible for this? And I want to make 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.439 sure that something like this doesn't happen again. But I 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:39.199 also felt that, you know, during the last decades that 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:45.240 America has been really prioritizing corporate interests, right, And so 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:46.040 I think. 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:46.960 This film than usual. 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:53.720 I think this film, I hope, rises to something that's 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.400 not just about these crashes, which is, you know, as 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.159 meaningful as it gets. But I think it touches on 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:05.600 something else, which is the need to regulate, the need 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:10.639 to balance out corporate interests making money, making money, making money, 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.399 and the need to balance out with public interest right. 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.600 And we've seen corporations like Boeing balances for many decades 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.800 and do fantastically well. And I think that when that 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.720 gets out of balance, it hurts everybody. 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:26.840 So when you see. 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.160 Someone like Defasio, the head of the committee, the guy 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:31.480 that was the leading light there in the Congress. Did 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.600 he have as much integrity overall as it appears to 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:35.399 be on screen. 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.040 He's fantastic because you know as well as I do. 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.800 You know, where are people in government who care enough 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.720 and they want to fight the way we're going. Like 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:45.800 Boeing was a company, you say, well, you understand, you 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:47.919 want people to make money and make profits. Boeing was 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:50.560 doing quite well before. Sure they had a slump when 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.879 Douglas took over. But what you find is not only 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:54.520 do people want to make money, they want to make 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:56.600 obscene amounts of money. They want to make an amount 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.680 of money that they're looking at you like you're a child, like, well, 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:01.960 you know, now, calm down, sunny, because there's a lot 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.679 of money at stake here for us who run and 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:05.360 own the company. 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.959 And my point is is that for me, I'm always 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:10.160 so sad. 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:14.080 I'm always so impacted by government officials who don't have 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.800 the guts to do their job, and the government's job 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:21.359 is to I mean, I watched people in testimony in 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:23.679 hearings and I think to myself, thank God I'm not there, 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.200 because I would be looking at the heads of car 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:28.800 companies or ol companies going you don't get it. You 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.040 come here, you answer our questions on behalf of the 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:34.359 American people. We have the authority, and I feel like 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:37.680 that authority is not always employed effectively. You said de 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:38.440 Fassio did. 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:38.800 A good job. 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:42.760 He's amazing. I mean he and his heart was so 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:46.080 in the right place. But he was also dogged and 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:48.840 he held these folks accountable. And you know when you 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:52.480 see him in those congressional testimonies and chasing down every 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:57.359 single document and you know, putting this report together, which 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:02.200 took years in the making and is incredibly thorough. They 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:05.800 go after Bowing and they hold them accountable, and they're 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:07.600 continuing to go after Boeing. 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:09.360