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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's

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Speaker 1: the Thing from iHeart Radio. It's summer and that means

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Speaker 1: it's time for our tradition at Here's the Thing. Will

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Speaker 1: the staff share their favorite episodes from our archives in

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Speaker 1: our Summer staff Picks series? Next up is producer Zach MacNeice.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Alec. On January fifth of this year, twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: on Alaska Airline's Boeing seven three seven Max nine made

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Speaker 2: an emergency landing in Portland, Oregon after a piece of

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Speaker 2: the fuselage blew out of the plane. Five days later,

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Speaker 2: on January fourteenth, a Boeing seven three seven eight hundred

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Speaker 2: was forced to turn around and land in Japan after

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Speaker 2: a crack was found mid air on the cockpit window.

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Speaker 2: On March seventh, a Boeing seven seven seven two hundred

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Speaker 2: made an emergency landing in Los Angeles after attire fell

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Speaker 2: off the plane during takeoff. And today, July thirty first,

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Speaker 2: Boeing has named a new CEO, Robert Ortberg, after announcing

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Speaker 2: a one point four billion dollar loss in the second

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Speaker 2: quarter of the year. These are just a few of

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Speaker 2: the many recent Boeing headlines In the past two and

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Speaker 2: a half years since the release of Rory Kennedy's documentary Downfall,

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Speaker 2: The Case against Boeing. Alex spoke with Rory in March

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two, and I couldn't think of a

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Speaker 2: better time to revisit this conversation about the film, The

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Speaker 2: Great American Company and Rory Kennedy's incredible life as a

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Speaker 2: documentary filmmaker.

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Speaker 1: My guest today comes from the most legendary of American families.

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Speaker 1: Rory Kennedy is the youngest daughter of Senator Robert F.

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Speaker 1: Kennedy and the niece of President John F.

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Speaker 3: Kennedy.

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Speaker 1: But as she will tell us during our conversation, she's

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Speaker 1: also one of the great Kennedy Women. Instead of following

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Speaker 1: her forbears into law or politics, Kennedy has made a

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Speaker 1: name for herself as a documentary filmmaker. Her films feature

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Speaker 1: a wide range of subjects, from surfing legend Laird Hamilton

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Speaker 1: to challenging issues like poverty, addiction, and mental illness. In

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Speaker 1: her current film, she's tackling corporate corruption. That film, Downfall

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Speaker 1: the Case against Boeing, investigates the circumstances that led to

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Speaker 1: two tragic passenger jet crashes. In twenty eighteen and nineteen,

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Speaker 1: Rory Kennedy and I talk about her remarkable upbringing and

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Speaker 1: how the people she's encountered in her life have influenced

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Speaker 1: her trajectory.

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Speaker 4: I think it's hard to detach anybody from how they

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Speaker 4: grew up, right, I mean, that's such an influence and

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Speaker 4: impact on who you become. And certainly that was the

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Speaker 4: case with me.

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Speaker 5: I grew up.

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Speaker 4: The youngest of eleven and in an obviously a very

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Speaker 4: political family, and I was impacted by that. I mean

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Speaker 4: I was also surrounded, my mother made a point of

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Speaker 4: this by really extraordinary role models, you know, when we

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Speaker 4: had such a the honor of meeting, whether it was

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Speaker 4: you know, presidents or congressmen and senators or people like

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Speaker 4: Nelson Mittndela and Desmond Tutu, you know, who were in

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Speaker 4: our homes, and also some of the great athletes and

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Speaker 4: you know NASA astronauts.

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Speaker 5: I mean, so, I think.

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Speaker 4: It was a life where we were surrounded by people

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Speaker 4: who created a sense of aspiration and to try to

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Speaker 4: make the world a bit of a better place.

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Speaker 1: Now, what would you say though, that, as you're making

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Speaker 1: a film, do you have protocols, rules, tenets, whatever word

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Speaker 1: you want to use, where you sit there and say

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Speaker 1: that's not something I'm going to do that's influenced by

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Speaker 1: the way your family's been treated. If you're making a

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Speaker 1: film and let's say some aspect of a story, there's

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Speaker 1: a very kind of scandalizing, tawdry to shy away from

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Speaker 1: that is the way you guys have been attacked from

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Speaker 1: time to time.

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Speaker 4: I think I have certain sensitivities. For example, with Downfall,

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Speaker 4: the case against Boeing, there's three hundred and forty six

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Speaker 4: people who died, and there are the family members who

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Speaker 4: are related to those people, some of whom we talked

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Speaker 4: to in our film, And I was definitely thinking, well,

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Speaker 4: how is it going to be for these folks to

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Speaker 4: watch this film right? And I've had to see scenes

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Speaker 4: over and over again that play themselves out on the

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Speaker 4: news that are very upsetting to watch about my family

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Speaker 4: dying right and being killed, and I didn't want to

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Speaker 4: subject them to that. But I also wanted to make

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Speaker 4: a film that was impactful. We do cgi recreations of

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Speaker 4: what it was like to be in the cockpit so

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Speaker 4: that we could really help people understand the perspective of

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Speaker 4: the pilots in these planes and what they were struggling

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Speaker 4: with with the MCS system. And you know, but I thought,

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Speaker 4: how are these folks going to watch this film? So

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Speaker 4: when I sent the film to them before it's coming out,

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Speaker 4: I highlighted all the sections that I thought would be

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Speaker 4: hard for them to watch, so that they could be

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Speaker 4: aware of that and go into it and decide to

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Speaker 4: watch those sections or not. So, you know, maybe I

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Speaker 4: have some sensitivity and moments like that. I think the

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Speaker 4: types of films I choose generally tend to be political

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Speaker 4: in nature and tend to you know, I hope when

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Speaker 4: people watch these films, whether it's this or a film

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Speaker 4: about Vietnam, the final days of the war, film about

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Speaker 4: Abu Grabe, that we learned from them, and we learn

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Speaker 4: from watching these stories and hopefully make better choices moving forward.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: So, I think the choices of the films I make

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Speaker 4: are certainly impacted by the family I grew up in.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting that you mentioned that, and this is only tangential,

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Speaker 1: but remember being invited years ago Clinton was in.

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Speaker 3: The White House.

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Speaker 1: I was invited to the White House to a screening

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Speaker 1: of the movie The Paper Howard, and I'm sitting in

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Speaker 1: a seat in the theater and the woman to my

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Speaker 1: right who's sitting next to me. A gun goes off

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the film, and that woman grabbed

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Speaker 1: my arm and gasped this huge gasp when the gun

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Speaker 1: went off.

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Speaker 5: It was your mom, right, So you know there's.

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Speaker 3: Me to this day, it's she's not prepared for that. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: those sounds.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's trauma related to that for sure.

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Speaker 3: Now to get to the film.

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Speaker 1: So I watched this film obviously, and I was mesmerized.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations by the way. I mean, you came to the

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Speaker 1: Hampton's Film Festival. Every year a film of yours comes

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Speaker 1: and we all look at together and we're like, can

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Speaker 1: we really invite her again? Do we bringing Rory down

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Speaker 1: to Easthampton again? I mean, is it enough enough? I mean,

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Speaker 1: how much more can we shine her up here? But

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Speaker 1: we loved your film about your mom. We're gonna get

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Speaker 1: to that later. I loved Last Days of Vietnam. That

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Speaker 1: was a great I'm not just saying this, that's a

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Speaker 1: great movie. Great movie. Really, just you what film can

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Speaker 1: do in this period of what's happening and understanding that

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Speaker 1: those moments that you did a great job and this

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Speaker 1: film made me angry this film. I was pissed off

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Speaker 1: because only one guy I think is criminally charged. Correct,

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Speaker 1: that's correct, and that we identify that person, Mark Forkner.

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Speaker 3: And he was in charge of what it is bowing.

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Speaker 4: He was a pilot, a test pilot, and he was

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Speaker 4: you know, he really wasn't responsible for what happened, and

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Speaker 4: a lot of people feel like he was scapegoaded because

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Speaker 4: he was really in charge of making sure, you know,

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Speaker 4: he was testing the plane and then he played a

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Speaker 4: role in keeping the MCS system away from the regulators.

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Speaker 4: And that's documented and there's proof of that, and so

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Speaker 4: they followed up with that. But you know, Congressman Defaisio,

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Speaker 4: for example, led the congressional investigation into what happened, the

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Speaker 4: biggest investigation the Infrastructure and Transportation Committee's history, and he

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Speaker 4: concluded that this was really top down right, that the

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Speaker 4: top group in management at Boeing was very aware of

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Speaker 4: the MCS system, that there was a concerted effort to

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Speaker 4: keep the system away from the regulators, to hide the system,

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Speaker 4: and to cut corners along the way, and that there

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Speaker 4: was you know, it was a culture of concealment, is

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Speaker 4: what he calls it. So I think that there are

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Speaker 4: a lot of people who feel like the folks who

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Speaker 4: are most responsible have yet to be held accountable. And

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Speaker 4: there's been no criminal charges. And you know, Lallenberg walked

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Speaker 4: away with the head of Boeing, the head of Boeing

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Speaker 4: sixty sixty two million dollars. So, you know, I think

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Speaker 4: after you've kind of watched the film and really understand

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Speaker 4: all the decisions that the management at Boeing made along

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Speaker 4: the way to prioritize profit over safety, that you know,

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Speaker 4: when you understand the depths of those choices that I

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Speaker 4: think many people like you are outraged.

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Speaker 1: Well for people, I don't want to I want them

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Speaker 1: to see the film obviously, but I want to give

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Speaker 1: them just a taste of So Boeing wants to create

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Speaker 1: I'll let you fill in the blank. So they want

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Speaker 1: to create a fleet. They're losing market share, they're getting

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Speaker 1: their hat handed to them by Airbus. Things are not

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Speaker 1: looking good for Boeing, who had been dominant around the

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Speaker 1: world for decades and then and were the pride of

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Speaker 1: not just Seattle but the United States aviation industry, and

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Speaker 1: then the things start to go down from so they

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Speaker 1: want to play ketchup and they want to produce a

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Speaker 1: lower cost, more fuel efficient I think was the goal

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Speaker 1: of the seven seven thirty seven MAX. Got to get

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Speaker 1: the word max and there the seven thirty seven fuel

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Speaker 1: efficiency was the goal. And then a part of this

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Speaker 1: was the development of this system which was to help

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Speaker 1: to so they don't make too steep a climb.

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Speaker 3: A system takes.

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Speaker 1: Over the plane and lowers the nose of the plane

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Speaker 1: and forces the plane down, but doesn't shut off. It

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Speaker 1: forces the nose of the plane down straight into the ground.

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Speaker 3: Correct.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that's there were concern at a certain angle

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Speaker 4: that the plane would stall, and so they instead of

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Speaker 4: changing the kind of structure of the plane and moving

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Speaker 4: the engines and whatnot, they decided to fix it with

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Speaker 4: a computer system, again in an effort to save money,

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Speaker 4: it seems, and that computer system was connected to one

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Speaker 4: sensor on the side of the airplane like a weather vein,

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Speaker 4: and so if that sensor was damaged, which happens off

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Speaker 4: and gets hit by bird, something happens to it, it

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Speaker 4: would send and this is what happened, erroneous information to

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Speaker 4: the computer system. So it would tell the computer system

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Speaker 4: that the plane was at a certain angle and you

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Speaker 4: needed to push the nose down, but it wasn't at

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Speaker 4: that angle. It was more at a flat angle, and

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Speaker 4: not only would it push the nose of the plane down,

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Speaker 4: but it would do it over and over and over again.

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Speaker 1: Probably the most powering details you covered the film is

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Speaker 1: and the pilots were not told about the installation of

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Speaker 1: this system.

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Speaker 4: That's correct, it's you know, prior to the Line air crash,

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Speaker 4: which was the first crash, the pilots were completely unaware

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Speaker 4: that the system was even on the airplane, which was

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Speaker 4: also kind of flew in the face of what had

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Speaker 4: been the normal relationship between Boeing and pilots, which was

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Speaker 4: to really educate and form pilots about everything training, you know,

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Speaker 4: make them fully equipped to handle any situation that would happen.

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Speaker 4: But in this case they in an effort to really

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Speaker 4: keep this from regulators. Really, what was motivating them is

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Speaker 4: that if they have a totally new system on the airplane,

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Speaker 4: then they have to train pilots. And if they have

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Speaker 4: to train pilots, it cost them a million dollars per

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Speaker 4: an aircraft, you know, on average to train these pilots.

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Speaker 4: So they wanted to again it seems, save the money,

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Speaker 4: and so instead of making people aware that this system

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Speaker 4: was on the airplane. They made a concerted effort to we're.

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Speaker 1: Not even going to tell you about this machine we've installed, which,

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Speaker 1: if it behaves badly, is going to crash the plane. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and there's a manual override that they might have been

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Speaker 1: able to activate. They could have gotten out of it,

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Speaker 1: I guess if they'd had the training.

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Speaker 4: If they had had the training. Except what we also

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Speaker 4: discover and showcase in the course of this film is

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Speaker 4: a document that came out in twenty sixteen. It's called

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Speaker 4: a coordination sheet that shows that if something went wrong

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Speaker 4: with the system, that the pilots would need to fix

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Speaker 4: it within ten seconds, otherwise the power of the MCS

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Speaker 4: system would overtake them if they didn't do it in

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Speaker 4: ten seconds, and.

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Speaker 5: The results would be catastrophic.

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Speaker 4: And catastrophic in airplane language means the plane will crash

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Speaker 4: and everybody will die. So you know, even if the

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Speaker 4: pilots right. So in the second instance, in the Ethiopian

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Speaker 4: airplane crash, the pilots were aware of the system, they

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Speaker 4: did everything right, they did what they were told to do,

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Speaker 4: and the plane still crashed. So you know, if you

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Speaker 4: don't and what you have to also remember, and this

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Speaker 4: is why we also created the kind of the CGI

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Speaker 4: recreation of what happens in that cockpit is there's this

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Speaker 4: cacophony of sounds and error alerts that are all contradicting

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Speaker 4: each other that the pilots are trying to understand and

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Speaker 4: navigate and figure out. Okay, this is thing where you know,

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Speaker 4: the altitude is in disagreement, the air speed is in disagreement,

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Speaker 4: the all systems alert is on the stickshaker is going,

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Speaker 4: there's all of these alerts coming at them, and then

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Speaker 4: with that they have to navigate. Okay, well, what this

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Speaker 4: all means is that I need to do these steps

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Speaker 4: within ten seconds and otherwise this plane is going to crash.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't want to go on a plane

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Speaker 4: that is putting pilots in that position. I don't want

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Speaker 4: to put my children.

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Speaker 1: Or fa people are whose job who'd give anything to

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Speaker 1: save the lives of their passengers. Think of something more

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Speaker 1: unimaginable than to be on the in the cockpit of

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Speaker 1: a plane and the plane is behaving and not in

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Speaker 1: some anomalous way. You see yourself hurtling towards the ground.

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Speaker 1: It's yeah, nine to eleven. You're the planes going into

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Speaker 1: the ground and you're sitting there thinking what can you

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Speaker 1: and you don't know what to do?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, right, it's completely funny. You know, maybe they're eating

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Speaker 5: a turkey sandwich.

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Speaker 4: You know, it does not like you're not there sitting

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Speaker 4: there on total alert for the entire plane ride.

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Speaker 1: Well, before we get into the macro of your filmmaking,

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Speaker 1: one more thing. I think you make it clear in

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Speaker 1: the film the idea that this is a different Boeing.

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Speaker 1: At this point, I thought it was fascinating how you

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Speaker 1: talk about the move to Chicago. They moved the headquarters

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Speaker 1: to Chicago for the purposes of distancing themselves from the influence, and.

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Speaker 3: I thought it was well that the influence was good.

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Speaker 3: It was a nice battery.

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Speaker 1: It was a nice exchange between Union's management, design, technology,

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Speaker 1: and the corporate And these guys are like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to be too close to those guys

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Speaker 1: in Seattle. So we're going to move to Chicago so

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Speaker 1: we can make our decisions in this bubble in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: And it seems like what was a great company that rare,

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Speaker 1: I mean, multi billion dollar enterprise. It made big, expensive

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Speaker 1: things that they were very proud of that defined the city,

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Speaker 1: and everything moves to Chicago, and it seems like that's

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Speaker 1: part of the problem was once that merger was made

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Speaker 1: and they moved to Chicago, that cost cutting thing becomes primary.

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Speaker 5: I think that's right, you know.

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Speaker 4: I think, like you, I love Boeing and what Boeing

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Speaker 4: stood for in this country, and you know the history

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Speaker 4: of Boeing, and we really celebrate that in the film

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Speaker 4: because it's been an extraordinary company for decades. You know,

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Speaker 4: it helped us get out of World War Two. It

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Speaker 4: helped build the fighter jets to win that war. It

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Speaker 4: helped get us.

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Speaker 5: To the moon with my uncle Jack.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they helped build those engines in the rocket chips.

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Speaker 4: They helped people be able to travel all over the

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Speaker 4: world for the first time, you know, with the seven

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Speaker 4: forty seven and extraordinary accomplishment. So we wanted to celebrate that.

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Speaker 4: And during those very early years and for many decades,

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Speaker 4: Boeing did one thing, which was to say, we're going

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Speaker 4: to prioritize excellence and safety and then the profits will follow.

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Speaker 4: We're going to make the best planes possible, We're going

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Speaker 4: to innovate, we're going to do new things and we're

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Speaker 4: going to think to the future. And then it changed hands,

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Speaker 4: taken over really. I mean, one person we interviewed said

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Speaker 4: somehow McDonald douglas bought Boeing with Boeing's money and the

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Speaker 4: McDonald douglas people were put in charge, and they had

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Speaker 4: a very different business model, which was very Wall Street

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Speaker 4: focused and quarterly earnings, you know, And so they made

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Speaker 4: a series of decision corporate decisions to cut back on

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Speaker 4: personnel who's whose job it was to ensure safety and

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Speaker 4: put pressure on the folks who are building the planes

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Speaker 4: to build them quicker and faster, and when people would

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Speaker 4: complain about safety, that slows that process down.

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Speaker 1: Documentary filmmaker Rory Kennedy. If you enjoy conversations about the

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Speaker 1: making of documentary films, check out my episode with British

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Speaker 1: filmmaker Lucy Walker. Her documentary Bring Your Own Brigade is

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Speaker 1: an in depth look at California wildfires and their effect

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Speaker 1: on local residents.

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Speaker 6: What I want to understand is, well, how are we

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Speaker 6: stopping it and why are people living in these areas

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Speaker 6: and building these houses that burn over and over and

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Speaker 6: over again. Could we do better? So you would think

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Speaker 6: that when people look at developing an area for housing.

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Speaker 6: They would think about far safety, but nobody's actually thinking about,

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Speaker 6: well are they going to be able to ensure these

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Speaker 6: homes and who's going to pay if these homes burn down.

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Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Lucy Walker, go

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Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, Rory

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Speaker 1: Kennedy and I discussed the filmmakers who have influenced her work.

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Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.

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Speaker 1: Filmmaker Rory Kennedy has made more than forty documentaries. Her

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Speaker 1: work has earned an Emmy and several Oscar nominations along

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Speaker 1: the way. I wanted her to share some of her

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Speaker 1: process as a filmmaker.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, different people and companies work in different ways.

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Speaker 4: I'm very hands on as a filmmaker, and I you know,

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Speaker 4: I love to be doing all the interviews and being

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Speaker 4: in the edit room, and so I don't take on

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Speaker 4: a huge number of projects at any given time. And

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Speaker 4: usually when I decide that I really want to do

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Speaker 4: a particular project, I really try to make it happen.

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Speaker 4: I was really committed. I felt like this story was

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Speaker 4: so important, the downfall story. I think, like so many

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Speaker 4: other people, I witnessed these two airplanes crashing within five

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Speaker 4: months of each other, the exact same aircraft. Three hundred

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Speaker 4: and forty six people died. And you know, I, like

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Speaker 4: so many other people, fly right, and I felt like,

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Speaker 4: I want to know what happened, who knew what when,

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Speaker 4: who is responsible for this? And I want to make

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Speaker 4: sure that something like this doesn't happen again. But I

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Speaker 4: also felt that, you know, during the last decades that

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Speaker 4: America has been really prioritizing corporate interests, right, And so

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 5: This film than usual.

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Speaker 4: I think this film, I hope, rises to something that's

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Speaker 4: not just about these crashes, which is, you know, as

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Speaker 4: meaningful as it gets. But I think it touches on

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Speaker 4: something else, which is the need to regulate, the need

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Speaker 4: to balance out corporate interests making money, making money, making money,

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Speaker 4: and the need to balance out with public interest right.

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Speaker 4: And we've seen corporations like Boeing balances for many decades

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Speaker 4: and do fantastically well. And I think that when that

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Speaker 4: gets out of balance, it hurts everybody.

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Speaker 3: So when you see.

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Speaker 1: Someone like Defasio, the head of the committee, the guy

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Speaker 1: that was the leading light there in the Congress. Did

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Speaker 1: he have as much integrity overall as it appears to

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Speaker 1: be on screen.

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Speaker 3: He's fantastic because you know as well as I do.

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Speaker 1: You know, where are people in government who care enough

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Speaker 1: and they want to fight the way we're going. Like

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Speaker 1: Boeing was a company, you say, well, you understand, you

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Speaker 1: want people to make money and make profits. Boeing was

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Speaker 1: doing quite well before. Sure they had a slump when

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Speaker 1: Douglas took over. But what you find is not only

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Speaker 1: do people want to make money, they want to make

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Speaker 1: obscene amounts of money. They want to make an amount

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Speaker 1: of money that they're looking at you like you're a child, like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, now, calm down, sunny, because there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of money at stake here for us who run and

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Speaker 1: own the company.

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Speaker 3: And my point is is that for me, I'm always

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Speaker 3: so sad.

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Speaker 1: I'm always so impacted by government officials who don't have

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Speaker 1: the guts to do their job, and the government's job

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Speaker 1: is to I mean, I watched people in testimony in

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Speaker 1: hearings and I think to myself, thank God I'm not there,

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Speaker 1: because I would be looking at the heads of car

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Speaker 1: companies or ol companies going you don't get it. You

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Speaker 1: come here, you answer our questions on behalf of the

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Speaker 1: American people. We have the authority, and I feel like

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Speaker 1: that authority is not always employed effectively. You said de

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Speaker 1: Fassio did.

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Speaker 3: A good job.

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Speaker 4: He's amazing. I mean he and his heart was so

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Speaker 4: in the right place. But he was also dogged and

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Speaker 4: he held these folks accountable. And you know when you

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Speaker 4: see him in those congressional testimonies and chasing down every

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Speaker 4: single document and you know, putting this report together, which

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Speaker 4: took years in the making and is incredibly thorough. They

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Speaker 4: go after Bowing and they hold them accountable, and they're

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Speaker 4: continuing to go after Boeing.

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Speaker 5: So I think there are.

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Speaker 4: A lot of extraordinary heroes who are celebrated who are

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Speaker 4: really on the front lines of this, whether it's Defasio

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Speaker 4: or Michael Stumo, who's the father of Samuel Stumo who

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Speaker 4: died in the Ethiopian plane crash and turned from a

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Speaker 4: victim to really an advocate. And he I mean, I

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Speaker 4: just got off the phone with him yesterday and he

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Speaker 4: he's not giving up on this. I mean, Boeing's thrown

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Speaker 4: a lot of money at these families to get them

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Speaker 4: to be quiet, and he is not going to be silenced,

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Speaker 4: and he is continuing to you know, spread the message

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Speaker 4: that he has very continued concerns about the safety of

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Speaker 4: the seven thirty seven Acts, the seven eighty seven Dreamliner.

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Speaker 4: They just announced yesterday the FAA that I mean as

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Speaker 4: though this should be news, but that the FAA is

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Speaker 4: going to actually regulate bowing and not let Boeing regulations regulating.

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Speaker 1: So, you know, point to watch the film because that's

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Speaker 1: another interesting point about how when I was studying government

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Speaker 1: at GW in the seventies, when I went down to

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Speaker 1: Washington to go to school, and we talked about that,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about how, you know, departmentalization, how people

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Speaker 1: are in these departments, like presidents come and go. We're

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Speaker 1: here civil servants for twenty thirty years, and so here

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Speaker 1: at the FA we have our own relationships with eight

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Speaker 1: with airline companies, and they allowed Boeing to self regulate

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Speaker 1: and self inspect.

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Speaker 4: I do think you're right that there's they're not enough

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Speaker 4: people in government who are advocating. But I guess my

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Speaker 4: point is is that in this film, you show a

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Speaker 4: world where advocacy comes from a lot of different perspective.

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Speaker 4: It comes from the government officials doing the right thing

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Speaker 4: in this case, Defasio. It also comes from you know,

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Speaker 4: people who don't think of themselves as advocates but turn

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Speaker 4: into ad before it's as a result. And then you

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Speaker 4: know Andy p Store, who's a dogged journalist who chases

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Speaker 4: down the story and gets us the information. And it's

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Speaker 4: the combination of all of those people who come together,

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Speaker 4: and you know, the storytellers, right, So I'm not putting

439
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 4: myself in that category, but we also have to you know,

440
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 4: the Lucy Walkers and yourself, the people who are packaging

441
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 4: these stories and getting them out in the way this

442
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 4: audience digestible to an audience, and so that that translates

443
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 4: hopefully into creating a better world.

444
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: I'm curious for people to understand how documentary films come

445
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 1: to the screen. Bob Drew, he did the trip tick

446
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: primary about your uncle. I mean, one of the funniest

447
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 1: things in the world you've ever seen in your life,

448
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: Hubert Humphrey walking into like some barn with men sitting

449
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: on bails of hay, saying America, we know what it's

450
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: got to do. And then you cut to your uncle

451
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: walking with his wife in your room. For the people

452
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: and people are crying and screaming like it's a Beatles

453
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: concert or who's going to win the primary.

454
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 3: Who were your influences in your filmmaking.

455
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 4: Well, certainly Bob Drew was, I mean an extraordinary filmmaker.

456
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 4: Penny Baker was a huge influence on me as well.

457
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 4: Barbara Kopple, who you know. The first documentary feature I

458
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 4: made was American Hollow, which was about a family in

459
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 4: eastern Kentucky, and it was really an extraordinary story of

460
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 4: a woman who had thirteen kids and they all lived

461
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 4: off the land, and we kind of spent a year

462
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 4: with them. Certainly influenced by Barbara and her extraordinary work

463
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 4: in Kentucky and Appalachia. So, you know, I think those

464
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 4: early veritay filmmakers have huge influence on the world of

465
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,959
Speaker 4: filmmaking today. And then they're just you know, there's just

466
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 4: a flew of incredible filmmakers who are colleagues of mine.

467
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 4: You know Lucy Wallerker you mentioned, I think she's a

468
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 4: fantastic filmmaker. My old partner Liz Garbis, is fantastic. Together

469
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 4: to the company, we're not still together as a company,

470
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 4: but we remain very good friends and advocates for each other.

471
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's fantastic.

472
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, gosh, your so knowledge well, Amy Berg is fantastic.

473
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 5: RJ.

474
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 4: Cutler, Davis Guggenheim. I mean there's just Don Porter. I

475
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 4: think that we're surrounded by really talented filmmakers, and I

476
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 4: think there's I think we've all also been influenced, you know.

477
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 4: I think this verite influence has impacted the kinds of

478
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 4: work that we do. But I think we're also influenced

479
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 4: by Hollywood and the films that we're seeing, the narrative

480
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 4: films and the dramatic storytelling, so that we're making films

481
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 4: that keep you a little bit more at the edge

482
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 4: of your seat of what's going to happen next, you know,

483
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 4: and really pull you into the characters and and and

484
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 4: to the plot, to you know, the storytelling. I think

485
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 4: it's very sophisticated these days. I think, you know, you

486
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 4: see it out in the world, and you know, when

487
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 4: you turn on your Netflix account, it's a mix up there.

488
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 4: It's not like, here's the narratives and then go down

489
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 4: deep into your Netflix account to find the documentaries. They're

490
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 4: up center, you know, because people are watching them and

491
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 4: there they're pulled in and I think it's.

492
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 5: Because they're really great storytellers.

493
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: Filmmaker Rory Kennedy, If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a

494
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: friend and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on

495
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

496
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: When we come back, Rory Kennedy talks about the film

497
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: of hers that was the hardest for her to make.

498
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's the Thing.

499
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: The Kennedy family has made history, and most of that

500
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: while occupying a path from Hyanna Sport, Massachusetts, down to McLean, Virginia,

501
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: and yet Rory somehow landed in California.

502
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 4: Well, my husband Mark, as you know, as a screenwriter

503
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 4: and a writer, and he is also my partner in

504
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 4: writing documentaries, but he has other writing that draws him

505
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 4: out there. So we decided we'd go out there for

506
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 4: a couple of years because at that time, ten or

507
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 4: twelve years ago, the kind of independent film world was

508
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 4: fizzling out here in New York and was sort of

509
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 4: pivoting over the West Coast.

510
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 5: We fell in love with California.

511
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 3: Your brother moves that I talked to him on Find

512
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 3: I Go how do you look. He goes, it's great.

513
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 3: I go, oh god, no, no, I said.

514
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 5: Not you not, you come on out?

515
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: I said, you're you're going out there? I said, I

516
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: think Cheryl's great, but there's a lot of other women

517
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: out there for you, Bob. And he doesn't have to

518
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: be living out there in California, and he loves it.

519
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 5: He came out there with his EMU, his bird.

520
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 4: I remember he was trying to figure out a way

521
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 4: to get the bird out there, and I said, well,

522
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 4: you know, I maybe try Richard Plepler. He's got that

523
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 4: HBO plane. So he called Richard and he said, can

524
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 4: I bring my Can you take my bird out? But

525
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 4: he failed to mention that the bird was six feet

526
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 4: high and needed to go with Richard anyway.

527
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 5: So he said order the bird.

528
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 4: Came out and then Bobby didn't have a house for

529
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 4: the first couple of weeks, so the bird lived at

530
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,239
Speaker 4: my house with Mark Nde blueberries and anyway. There are

531
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 4: lots of stories to tell about Toby the bird.

532
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 3: And he loves California no too, Yeah.

533
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, he loves he loves it out there.

534
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: Now, you did the movie about your mom, and of

535
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: course you make a little joke there, But how difficult

536
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: it was to recruit your mom?

537
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 4: Yes, she.

538
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: Was not, she was not a willing subject to be filmed. No,

539
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: but eventually she's set down.

540
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 4: My siblings were very difficult too, by the way. Really well, yes,

541
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 4: they just didn't make it easy.

542
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 3: They're busy.

543
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, they just wanted to make it difficult for me,

544
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 4: because why would it Why would they make it easy

545
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 4: when they don't have to know? They were all fantastic,

546
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 4: and including my mother, and they they did answer ultimately

547
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 4: all the questions I asked them. And my mother, I

548
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 4: was just with her yesterday I played backham and with her,

549
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 4: and I mean I was just I was winning the

550
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 4: whole game. My dice were so much better. I played brilliantly,

551
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 4: and then she beat me again. She's ninety four. I

552
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 4: cannot beat that woman playing backham and I'm not a

553
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 4: bad vackham and player.

554
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that.

555
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,959
Speaker 1: Your mother also, And you know this infly better than

556
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: I do. She just in her own wonderful way and

557
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: in a truly in a truly marvelous way, she just

558
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: doesn't suffer fools at all. And we're playing golf up

559
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: there at the golf tournament, and she says to me,

560
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: coming golf with me. You're you're gonna be with me,

561
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be with Frank and so and so

562
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: and so. And I go, I said, I beg your pardon.

563
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: I said, you have to really understand it's important. Could

564
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: this I've crossed this with this juncture before, I said,

565
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: I'm a miserable golfer.

566
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 3: Oh, of course you can hit a golf ball. Come on,

567
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: come on you.

568
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: I said, no, no, I don't think you really understand. I

569
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: need you desperately to listen to carefully what I'm saying. No, no, no, no, no,

570
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: please with this is non sets. Come on, you're to

571
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: come with me. You're gonna play with me and Frank

572
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: and I. As is always the case, I am scared

573
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: to do so. I do fairly well. I can drive

574
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: the ball. I could I get lucky with the irons.

575
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: I can put I can drive iron some terrible We

576
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: get to the second of me the third hold your

577
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: other t She goes, you're right, you really can golf?

578
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: Can you?

579
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 5: Did you shake you off your tea?

580
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 4: Get?

581
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:32,959
Speaker 3: Could we get lou in here?

582
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 4: Someone?

583
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 3: Where's the ringer that was following us to fill in

584
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 3: for me.

585
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: Now, one thing I noticed when I worked with the

586
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: Kunstler sisters who did disturbing in the Universe about their father,

587
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: William Kunstler, And when I was talking to them, it

588
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: was I kind of knew this, but it was brought

589
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: into sharper focus from me.

590
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 3: The cost.

591
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: I mean, they told me that they were trying to

592
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: retire a debt of like forty thousand, fifty thousand dollars

593
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: of debt they owed for archival footage from NBC and

594
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,959
Speaker 1: other network news organizations. Is that true for you as well?

595
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: Meaning do you find these costs or just I mean,

596
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: because I have one belief that old network news organizations

597
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: the material should be made free under fair use.

598
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: These are public airways.

599
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, well it is.

600
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,719
Speaker 4: It can be astronomical the cost associated with archive. I mean,

601
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 4: we're lucky enough with this film that it was. It

602
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 4: was fully financed by Netflix, who covered those costs for us,

603
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 4: so we're not dead on it. But it can really

604
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 4: make or break a lot of terrific documentaries out there.

605
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 4: I think more people are leaning into fair use, but

606
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 4: there has been a few instances of backlash against that

607
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,239
Speaker 4: where people chase them down and demand being paid you know,

608
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 4: particularly for these historical documentaries, it's a real cost.

609
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: It's like people who when I was working more consistently

610
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: on the issue of campaign financial form with creative coalition

611
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,239
Speaker 1: organizations I worked with years ago in the ninety is,

612
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: from disparate sources, we learned that one of the great

613
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: enemies of campaign finance reform is the National Association of

614
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: Broadcasters because these affiliates in the network TV world. Someone

615
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: said to me there are stations in this country that

616
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: make seventy percent of their annual budget during one election cycle, right,

617
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: and selling political advertising. They do not want to take

618
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: the money out of politics, and the NAB, the National

619
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: Association BOK is constantly finding campaign finance law changes.

620
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

621
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 4: Well, listen, I so appreciate your work in that air

622
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 4: area too, because I think, you know, when just circling

623
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 4: back to your point about you know, who are these

624
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 4: leaders now like Defasio who are advocating for us. I

625
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 4: think it's it's hard, given the system that we have

626
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 4: to really produce and encourage people who are in it

627
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 4: exclusively for the public interest, right, I mean, that's those

628
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 4: are the types of people who you want to be

629
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 4: driven to politics, as people who are going to make

630
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 4: the world a better place, but instead they're often driven

631
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 4: there because of money, and that's not really the reason

632
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 4: you want people ultimately in that position. So I think

633
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 4: there's a lot still to be done, obviously with campaign

634
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 4: finance reform in this country.

635
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: Which film for you was the most difficult to put

636
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: together as a film? What was the biggest challenge?

637
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 4: Well, I think the hardest one for me was ethel

638
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 4: you know, the stakes were so high and it was

639
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 4: so deeply personal. You know, I had to look through

640
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 4: lots of footage. We're talking about archive footage, you know,

641
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 4: some of which was extraordinary and beautiful and so fun

642
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 4: to see and just you know, gave me a depth

643
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 4: of understanding of my family and my father, who I

644
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 4: never met, you know, just watching him in this footage

645
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 4: and a lot of footage has never been seen before

646
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 4: was a really beautiful experience for me. But it was

647
00:34:54,880 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 4: also emotionally challenging and difficult, and I you know, I

648
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 4: wanted to ultimately make a film that showed, you know,

649
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 4: the challenges and the difficulties that my mother in particular

650
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 4: went through and.

651
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 5: Faced, but also.

652
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 4: You know, to celebrate her because I think that for

653
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 4: so many people in our family with they focus on

654
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 4: Robert Kennedy, John F. Kennedy, Teddy Kennedy, but there's not

655
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 4: as much focus on the women, right and there. You know,

656
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 4: my aunt units started the Special Olympic. She's contributed enormously,

657
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 4: but she hasn't quite gotten that same level of attention

658
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 4: and Nora has my mother and so many people when

659
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 4: they introduce me, they say, oh, this is Robert Kennedy's daughter,

660
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 4: and I'm like, well, my mother actually raised me, and

661
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 4: you know, she played a pretty big part in like

662
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 4: who I am. So part of it was like, I

663
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 4: think she deserves the spotlight at least for a moment, like,

664
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 4: at least to be understood, Yeah, and to help people

665
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 4: understand her contribution because she was also her nature was

666
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 4: to kind of stand behind and not you know, be

667
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 4: the one on the microphone and be the one sort

668
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 4: of at the front line. So anyway, I think just

669
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 4: for me personally, the stakes were higher on that one

670
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 4: and it was more challenging for me.

671
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 3: What are you working on next?

672
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 4: I'm working on a couple projects. I've got another film

673
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 4: with Netflix that is about a volcanic eruption that I'm

674
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 4: doing right now. And then I've got a film about

675
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 4: the global refugee crisis that's a big light. Yes, these

676
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,439
Speaker 4: are the main ones I'm focused on, and I'm very

677
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 4: excited to, you know, have this film coming out on

678
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 4: Netflix and committed to getting as many eyes on it

679
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 4: as possible.

680
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: Now, Last Days of Vietnam was in twenty fourteen. How

681
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: many of these films Ethel was in twenty twelve. I

682
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: can't believe that.

683
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 3: But of these last films, have most of them been

684
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 3: with Netflix?

685
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 4: Now, this is my first film that I've directed with Netflix.

686
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 4: Last Is was with PBF, a Etho was with HBO,

687
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 4: did a film about Naso with the Discovery Channel.

688
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 5: Let me just.

689
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 4: Say, Alec that I have such an admiration and respect

690
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 4: for you. You're such a talented artist, and you've always

691
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 4: committed yourself to making the world a better place, and

692
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 4: you have such a love for people and a heart

693
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 4: that is more open and more generous than anybody I know.

694
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 4: And I just have such deep admiration.

695
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 5: And respect for you.

696
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 3: I love for your mom.

697
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 4: II.

698
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 5: Will you take care?

699
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 4: Thank you.

700
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 3: Rory Kennedy.

701
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: Her documentary Downfall, The Case against Boeing, is available now

702
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: on Netflix. This episode was produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice,

703
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: and Maureen Hobin. Our engineer is Frank Imperio. Here's the

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00:37:53,520 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 1: thing that is brought to you by iHeart Radio