1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: O ye lugar a in Agosto, the mill noveci yai 2 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: we progrimes petroleo in Las Carters in de la de 3 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: las Suga. 4 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 2: This is Luis Janza. He moved to the Oriente area 5 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 2: of the Ecuadorian Amazon, on the eastern side of the 6 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 2: country in the seventies. He says, when he stopped off 7 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 2: the bus in Lago Agrio, the largest city in the 8 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 2: area at the time, the streets were literally filled with oil, 9 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: that there was oil running down them. He stepped onto 10 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: a street of oil. 11 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 3: There is a societ and yomama, there's a there's a 12 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 3: demos mia siemprevis negras yeh Principio Nosavilla kravis Negras. 13 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: Jansa says growing up he would see big black clouds 14 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 2: in the distance nubis Negras. He didn't know what those 15 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 2: clouds were from, but he found out later that they 16 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: were from the oil refineries in the area. Later he 17 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 2: would see pits of oil and wastewater in various parts 18 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: of the Amazon as well. All of that, the oil streets, 19 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 2: the black clouds, the pits. Who created those and whose 20 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: responsibility it is to clean them up? That's what's at 21 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,559 Speaker 2: the center of a lawsuit that started in nineteen ninety 22 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: three against one company, Texaco. That suit has lasted through 23 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: an acquisition. Chevron acquired Texco in two thousand and Multiple 24 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 2: trials and settlements in appeal aspects of this case have 25 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: been heard in courtrooms in Ecuador, New York, Canada, Argentina, 26 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: and the Hague. An American lawyer Stephen Donziger you met 27 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,839 Speaker 2: last time, is on house arrest and facing prison time 28 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 2: for his role in the case. Yansa is still working 29 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 2: on aspects of the case on the ground in Ecuador 30 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: and in various other courts around the world, and various 31 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: indigenous groups are just trying to figure out how they're 32 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 2: going to clean this stuff up and get access to 33 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: clean water. This is Drilled Season five, La Lucha Lahundla, 34 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 2: Episode two, The Colonizers. Today, we're going to go all 35 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,399 Speaker 2: the way back and look at how that oil got 36 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 2: onto those streets in the first place. That story coming 37 00:02:47,840 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: right up after this quick break from today's sponsor, Missing 38 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: America is the story of what happens when the United 39 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 2: States under Trump abdicates our role as an example for 40 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: the world. Ben Rhodes, who served as the deputy national 41 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: Security advisor to President Obama, hosts the show and speaks 42 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,679 Speaker 2: to inspiring leaders and activists who are fighting to take 43 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 2: up the slack in America's absence in a world where nationalism, authoritarianism, 44 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: and disinformation have taken hold like never before. This week, 45 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: Ben talks to several climate activists, including former Australian Prime 46 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: Minister Kevin Rudd, to ask can the biggest threat to 47 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 2: the entire world bring the entire world together? In their 48 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: penultimate episode, Be examines the enormous obstacles to confronting climate 49 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: change and how progressives in other countries have made headway. 50 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 2: Missing America is a nine part limited podcast series from Media. 51 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: Find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen 52 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: to your shows. 53 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 4: Hello, I'm Kyle Thomas. I've just been reading about Simon Believer. Believer, 54 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 4: the great patriot of Latin America, fought for the freedom 55 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 4: of not just one country, but for the freedom of 56 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 4: six Spanish colonies in Latin America. For centuries. 57 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 5: In their poor and remote villages, most of the people 58 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 5: lived quiet lives, close to the soil. Then in the 59 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 5: early nineteen twenties something happened which changed forever. The life 60 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 5: of the Venezuelan people oil. 61 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 2: As you can hear in these vintage oil industry promotional films, 62 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 2: oil companies didn't see themselves as colin Colonialism was something 63 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 2: Spaniards did American companies they brought freedom. Oil Colonialism was 64 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 2: deeply intertwined with religion, and the situation in Latin America 65 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 2: was no different. Missionaries throughout the continent were often funded 66 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 2: by oilmen, most intensely from the nineteen twenties through the 67 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, and it wasn't purely cynicism. Men like Lyman 68 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 2: Stewart and John D. Rockefeller were extremely devout Christians who 69 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 2: believed God had ordained them to find oil and prosper 70 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 2: from it. Darren Dochuk, a history professor at the University 71 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 2: of Notre Dame, has written several fascinating books on this subject. 72 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 6: Not all oilmen are developed Christian, but many of them are. 73 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 2: Dochuk says, there's a long history of missionaries and oilmen partnering, 74 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 2: and it was no different in the Amazon. 75 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 6: These missionaries are pushing into the jungles of the Amazon. 76 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 6: It's no accident that they are coming in direct contact 77 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 6: with petroleum geologists and they are going to collaborate, they 78 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 6: are going to partner in terms of the flow of information. 79 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 2: These partnerships weren't just bringing religion to the supposedly godless 80 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: primitive people of the Amazon and opening up new land 81 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 2: for oil exploration. They were also exporting American style democracy 82 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 2: throughout the world. 83 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 6: Of course, this is all premise on the assumption of 84 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 6: a superiority of the modern Christian who, as ambassador of 85 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 6: the American Way, privileges their knowledge and their expertise and 86 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 6: sees it as again a God given way for them 87 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 6: to help uplift the world, and that has deeply, of course, 88 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 6: racist undertones. 89 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 2: As the Cold War began in the late nineteen forties 90 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 2: and continued until nineteen ninety one, churches and oilman teamed 91 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: up again against a common enemy, Communism. 92 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 6: This pursuit of black gold is going to be all 93 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 6: the more intensified against the backdrop of the Cold War 94 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 6: and the fight with communism, in the fear that Latin 95 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 6: America might lose itself to the great secular communist threat 96 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 6: of the Soviet Union, So oil and the pursuit of 97 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 6: souls is going to become all the more important. 98 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 2: At that point, people began exploring for oil and Ecuador 99 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: in the nineteen twenties, but it wasn't until the nineteen sixties, 100 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: and then once again oilmen and missionaries teamed up to 101 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: explore deep into the jungle. In the nineteen eighties, Judith Kimberling, 102 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 2: an environmental lawyer from Alabama, was drawn to Ecuador by 103 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: that timeless desire of environmentalists everywhere. She wanted to save 104 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 2: the rainforests. When she arrived, kimberly learned about the exact 105 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: partnership between oil and religion that Dotuck describes. 106 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 7: What of the groups the Bia, they had no contact 107 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 7: with the outside world until nineteen seventy. 108 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: The Biwayeti are a subgroup of a larger tribe called 109 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: the Wadani, who lived throughout the Amazon in Ecuador. 110 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 7: They were subjected to a program of forced contact because 111 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 7: after Texco discovered commercial quantities of oil and Lago Agrio, 112 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 7: the company knew that it would want to expand its 113 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 7: operations into Warani territory. 114 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 2: Lago Agrio is the name of the first well Texaco 115 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: drilled in Ecuador in the great tradition of American companies 116 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: exploring overseas. Texaco named that well and the town it 117 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 2: built up around it after its own history. Lago Agrio 118 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 2: means Sour Lake, and back when Texico was just the 119 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: Texas Oil Company, it first struck black gold in the 120 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: tiny sundown town of Sour Lake, Texas. Thirty years later 121 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 2: Lago Agrio would be the center of this big legal 122 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: case we've been talking about. But in the nineteen seventies 123 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: there was still more exploring to do. That's where the 124 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: missionaries came into it. 125 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 7: And the Warni who lived in those areas had no 126 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 7: contact with the outside world. They were Fearce warriers and 127 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 7: great hunters, and so the company collaborated with US missionaries 128 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 7: to subject the Warani to a forced contact. 129 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: Kimberly wanted to see for herself what was happening in 130 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 2: the Ecuadorian Amazon, and when she first got to Quito, 131 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 2: she met an American oil consultant who repeated something she'd 132 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 2: read back home. 133 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 8: I had read that there was some oil development in Ecuador, 134 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 8: but I had read in this literature that oil extraction, 135 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 8: oil drilling, expiration, and production does not harm the rainforest. 136 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 7: That the only harm is caused by road construction, that 137 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 7: oil companies have to build roads in order to lay 138 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 7: their pipelines. And that road construction by the oil industry 139 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 7: Leacity Fares station and there's never there's no other. I 140 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 7: had read that without thinking about it, and then after 141 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 7: I got to Quito, I met a consultant for an 142 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 7: oil company who said the same thing to me, and 143 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 7: somehow when he said it, it just didn't sound right. 144 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: That consultant gave Kimerling a copy of his company's environmental 145 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 2: management practices and its plans for further drilling in the Amazon. 146 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: She took it to a group called Company I, an 147 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 2: organization that represents fifteen hundred communities in the Amazon. 148 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 7: An environmental management plan for Block sixteen, which is in 149 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 7: a really important areas of Yasuni National Park and also 150 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 7: the territory of the Warani nation. You know, they looked 151 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 7: at it and they asked me if they could see it, 152 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 7: if they could copy it, and I said, of course. 153 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 7: And I think that what made an impression on them 154 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 7: was that I was the first person who had ever 155 00:10:58,200 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 7: shared information with him. 156 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 2: Confany I asked her to come back, and then they 157 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 2: asked her, Okay, so you want to help. What exactly 158 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,599 Speaker 2: do you want to do? She said, she wanted to 159 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 2: go out and see what the oil companies were really 160 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: doing in the rainforest. 161 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 7: So I went with company I. They took me out 162 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 7: they and they took me to Coca, which is an 163 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 7: oil boom town, and they introduced me to the local 164 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 7: federation and I met with the with the leaders there, 165 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 7: and I told them about, you know, what I had 166 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 7: heard about oil extraction. And I asked them, you know, 167 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 7: I said, I have some doubts. 168 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 8: Is it true? 169 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 7: Is their contamination? And they looked at each other, they 170 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 7: looked at me. They had never heard that word before. 171 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 7: They did not know what it meant. And so when 172 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 7: I explained what the word contamination meant, they understood immediately 173 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 7: and they began to tell me about the oil operations, 174 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 7: the routine waste, the spills, and then they took mend 175 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 7: so that I could see for myself. And so I 176 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 7: still remember the first waste pit that I saw, the 177 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 7: first abandoned waste pit that I saw. It was at 178 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 7: an exploratory well site, and the company had just dug 179 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 7: a hole in the ground, dumped their toxic drilling waste, 180 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 7: and then abandoned it in the rainforest. And when you 181 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 7: abandon toxic waste in the rainforests, some of it seats 182 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 7: into the ground. You also get a lot of rain, 183 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 7: so it overflows into the surrounding areas. And I was 184 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 7: appalled because when I was a lawyer in New York City, 185 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 7: I had worked on the Love Canal litigation. I had 186 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 7: worked for the New York State Attorney General's Office suing 187 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 7: Occidental Petroleum Company, an Occidental chemical company to recover the 188 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 7: monies that New York State had spent to buy out 189 00:12:54,840 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 7: people's homes and contain the contamination at Love Canal. And 190 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 7: I thought that we had learned in this country from 191 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 7: Love Canal that you can't just dig a hole in 192 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 7: the ground, dump your toxic waste and walk away. But 193 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 7: that is exactly what Texico was doing. 194 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 9: A US company was doing in the Amazon rainforest in 195 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 9: Ecuador in the you know, I went there in nineteen 196 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 9: eighty nine and they were still doing it. 197 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 2: Then, This practice digging unlined open air waste pits, filling 198 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: them and just leaving them behind, and the dumping of 199 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 2: oil into rivers what we heard Hostino talk about in 200 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,959 Speaker 2: the last episode. These are the original issues at the 201 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:48,599 Speaker 2: center of this decades long case that Chevron ultimately inherited 202 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 2: from Texico, and that the Ecuadorians are still trying to 203 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 2: settle today. No one really denies that this was done. 204 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 2: It's more a question of who did what and whose 205 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: job it is to clean it up. We actually found 206 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: a petroleum geologist who worked in Ecuador in the mid 207 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 2: nineties who told us what he saw there. Tim Lagonegro 208 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 2: thirty six years in the patroleymy industry. 209 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 10: I've worked or lived in about seventy different countries. I 210 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 10: lived ten years in Latin America, eight in Brazil, two 211 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 10: in Ecuador. Going there, I did see these these oil 212 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 10: roads where they the crude oil was. It seemed like 213 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 10: it was deliberately spilled. I don't know how it happened, 214 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 10: but it seemed like it was also almost wat deep, 215 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 10: and it was lush, lush jungle out there. 216 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 2: An issue in this case is not whether this happened 217 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 2: or even whether Texaco was involved, it's whether they were 218 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: responsible for more cleanup than they actually did. Texicos and 219 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: now Chevron's arguments in this case boiled down to two things. First, 220 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 2: Texico cleaned up with the government said it had to, 221 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 2: and second that any remaining issues were the res responsibility 222 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 2: of the state run oil company Petro Ecuador. The plaintiffs say, basically, 223 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 2: we don't care who owned what percentage of this partnership. 224 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: It was Texico that was operating everything. Texico showed the 225 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 2: Ecuadorians what to do, Texico showed Petro Ecuador what to do, 226 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: and they're responsible. My co reporter on this series, Karen Savage, 227 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 2: asked lag Negro about that. 228 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 11: So Texico real lies in now chevrun on what they 229 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 11: call the settlement agreement that was signed I think it 230 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 11: was in ninety eight where they say they cleaned up 231 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 11: thirty seven percent of the unlined waste pits because they 232 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 11: said that's the percentage of their share of the consortium. 233 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 11: Is that a normal kind of thing where they would 234 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 11: only clean up whatever their share is and then leave 235 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 11: the rest for Petro Ecuador. 236 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 10: I think that's an outlandish statement because what happens is 237 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 10: the major runs everything. No, I don't want to say 238 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 10: they're like, you know, imperialists or whatever, but they definitely 239 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 10: go in there with this big boy attitude a lot 240 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 10: with these broad shoulders, and they're there to do the operations, 241 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 10: to operate it, and usually the national oil company it's 242 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 10: just an observer. They really don't get their hands on 243 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 10: the operation. So I think that's an outlandish deception there, 244 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 10: really and truly and don't believe that for a second. 245 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 10: Number one, you would never put wastewater in an unlined pit. 246 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 10: Never everyone knows that's toxic water. Putting that into a rainforest, 247 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 10: that is an outlandishly bold faced drilling one oh one error, 248 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 10: very extremely wrong, extremely dangerous. Doesn't app seven percent. I 249 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 10: think that's an outlandish deception really that it doesn't work 250 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 10: that way. 251 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: Kimberlin gives the example of the Trans Ecuadorian Pipeline, a 252 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 2: three hundred and thirteen mile pipeline that runs from the 253 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: Amazon up over the Andes and to the Pacific Ocean. 254 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 2: It was initially built by Texico in nineteen seventy two. 255 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 7: This pipeline that during the time it was operated by Texico, 256 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 7: this pipeline alone had spilled more oil than the Exxon 257 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 7: Valdis And this doesn't count the secondary pipelines, the flow lines. 258 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 7: I mean, most of the spills that occurred during Texico's 259 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 7: operations weren't even recorded. And there's actually a was a 260 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 7: directive from Texico in the US to the office in 261 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 7: Keito telling them not to record those spills, basically unless 262 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 7: they had to. 263 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 2: Both Texico and Chevron have admitted that Texaco was the 264 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 2: operator of the partnership, in other words, setting up oil fields, refineries, 265 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 2: and pipelines and running them from the beginning in nineteen 266 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 2: sixty four into at least nineteen ninety. They were still 267 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 2: in charge when Kimberling made her initial Save the Rainforest trip. 268 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 2: That experience prompted Kimberling to write the book Amazon Crude, 269 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 2: which introduced Americans to what was happening in the Ecuadorian Amazon, 270 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 2: including Cristobal Bonifas, an Ecuadorian who had immigrated to America 271 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 2: and was practicing law there. When he read about what 272 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 2: was happening back home, Bonifas convinced his son, who had 273 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 2: just graduated from law school, to go on a fact 274 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 2: finding mission with him and see if they might build 275 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: a case. His son brought his law school pal, a 276 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 2: young Stephen Donziger, the attorney we met last time. 277 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 12: I was invited by a former law school classmate of 278 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 12: mine and his father, his father from Ecuador, but was 279 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 12: practicing law in Massachusetts, to go on with them on 280 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 12: a trip to Ecuador to do an investigation of what 281 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 12: they described as a massive pollution problem. Caused by Texaco. 282 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety three, Fast filed suit against Texaco on 283 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 2: behalf of a group of indigenous tribes. Here he is 284 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 2: at a press conference about the case in New York. 285 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 2: What happened with Texico didn't have to be that way, 286 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 2: he says. He goes on to say more or less 287 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 2: exactly what Tim lagoon Neegro, the petroleum engineer we heard 288 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 2: from earlier said. Lago Negro worked throughout South America, the US, 289 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 2: and Africa as an engineer for Baker Hughes, an oil 290 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 2: field services company. He said that plenty of oil companies 291 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 2: were drilling responsibly at the time, that the pollution in 292 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 2: Ecuador was really over the top. 293 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 10: It was almost like a war on the environment. 294 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 12: That's what it seemed like. 295 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 2: Texico argued that it had cleaned up what it was 296 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 2: responsible for. The company also argued that New York, where 297 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 2: the suit was filed, had no jurisdiction over what had 298 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 2: happened in Ecuador. For almost a decade, the plaintiffs, led 299 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: by Bonifas, fought to keep the suit in New York. 300 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 2: That's at least in part because at the time, Ecuador's 301 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 2: government was almost entirely in the pocket of the oil companies, 302 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 2: whose profits were helping the country develop and modernize. In fact, 303 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 2: the government even filed amikus breeze backing Texaco. In this case, 304 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 2: they asked the judge to dismiss the case, saying it 305 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 2: would harm Ecuador's own oil industry and its relationship with 306 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 2: the US. In an internal Texico memo from nineteen ninety four, 307 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 2: doctor Rodrigo Perez, one of the company's representatives in Ecuador, 308 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 2: is reporting back on a meeting with the President of 309 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 2: Ecuador and various ministers and the executives of various oil companies. 310 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 2: This seems to be a fairly regular occurrence. The last 311 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 2: monthly meeting of the representatives of the oil companies was 312 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 2: organized by City Investing and took place on Saturday, September 313 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 2: third in the town of Bahia, where President Aaran Balin 314 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: owns a beach house that reads, we flew down in 315 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 2: Petro Ecuador's airplane. Keep in mind this is nineteen ninety four, 316 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: so two years after Texico has officially left Ecuador, but 317 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 2: the company is still pretty cozy with the government there. 318 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 2: When he gets to a section titled ecological problems, Perez writes, 319 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 2: quote the companies express their deep concern with what is 320 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 2: happening to Texaco. President Duran stated that the environmental issue 321 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 2: is being brought up by all lending agencies such as 322 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 2: the World Bank et cetera, which are conditioning their loans 323 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: to sound and firm environmental policies. With regard to the 324 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 2: Texico problem, he indicates that they are in the process 325 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 2: of being resolved through direct negotiation between the government and Texico. 326 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 2: The minister also said that he had met with the 327 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 2: leaders of the indigenous groups who have told him that 328 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 2: they are not interested in the lawsuits against Texaco, but 329 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 2: rather desired to have direct conversations with the company. The 330 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 2: president finally said that he received several letters from ecological 331 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 2: organizations from all over the world asking him to cancel 332 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 2: all contracts with foreign oil and mining companies, which he 333 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:24,479 Speaker 2: will obviously never do. Okay, So the oil companies are 334 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 2: all meeting with the president during his beach vacation, and 335 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 2: he and the environment minister are telling them, don't worry, 336 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 2: we'll sort all of these environmental issues out for you. 337 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 2: But also, hey, we're kind of going out on a 338 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 2: limb here with these banks and environmental organizations, so don't 339 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 2: forget the favor. It's all right there in black and white. 340 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 2: This is something that comes up in this case a lot, 341 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 2: the corruption of the Ecuadorian government for years. The plaintiff 342 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 2: said they wouldn't get a fair trial in Ecuador because 343 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 2: of it. Then Chevron said they wouldn't get a fair trial. 344 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 2: But Chevron also points to agreements the government made with 345 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 2: Texaco around this time as both valid and binding, particularly 346 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 2: a document in which the Republic of Ecuador signed off 347 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 2: on Texico's cleanup efforts in the country. That agreement was 348 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 2: signed in nineteen ninety eight. In various videos defending themselves 349 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 2: and in a written statement to us, Chevron is careful 350 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 2: with the language they use around this. They always say 351 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: the cleanup was done according to the government's requirements. 352 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 13: Before leaving, Texaco spent forty million dollars and worked with 353 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 13: independent environmental experts to clean up its share of well sides. 354 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 13: The whole process was overseen and verified by the Ecuadorian government. 355 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 5: Texico spent forty million dollars cleaning up its agreed upon 356 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 5: share of production sites, getting a complete release from the 357 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 5: Ecuadorian government and local communities. 358 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 7: An independent panel of experts found that Texico's remediation here 359 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 7: had followed Ecuadorian government requirements. 360 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: It was the Ecuadorian government's cozy relationship with the oil 361 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 2: industry that made Bone and the Equadorian plaintiffs fight so 362 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 2: hard for so long to keep their case in the US, 363 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 2: especially given that Texico was an American company. Here's Donziger again, 364 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 2: Given that. 365 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 14: The ecuador legal system seemed completely incapable of standing up 366 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 14: to the powerful Texico and then Chevron corporation, it didn't 367 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 14: exactly engender a whole lot of confidence that a lawsuit 368 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 14: in Equator could be successful, which is exactly why Texico 369 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 14: and then Chevron was so desperate to have the case 370 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 14: litigated down at Ecuador. They were so desperate that they agreed, 371 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 14: as a condition of the removal of the case to Ecuador, 372 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 14: they accepted jurisdiction of the Ecuadorian courts as an American company. 373 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 14: Very very significant victory for our side, and they also 374 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 14: agreed to pay any adverse judgment that might come out 375 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 14: of Ecuador if they were to lose the case, subject 376 00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 14: to certain conditions. 377 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 2: At this point, Donziger was becoming increasingly involved in the case. 378 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 2: It was unusual for an American company to agree to 379 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 2: conditions like these, but maybe less so when you consider 380 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 2: how friendly the Equadorian government had always been to oil companies. 381 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 14: They thought they could engineer a dismissal because of their 382 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 14: political influence. You know, they saw what we saw, which was, 383 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 14: you know, we saw a court system that for decades 384 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 14: hadn't issued even one ruling against Texaco, even though the 385 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 14: pollution was all over the place. I think they theorized 386 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 14: that we would either give up, that is, the law 387 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 14: firm or lawyers in the US who were financing the case, 388 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 14: which is quit because it'd be such a hassle to 389 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 14: start litigating in a foreign jurisdiction where none of us 390 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 14: were lawyers, none of us were members of the bar. 391 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 14: We would have to get a local legal team pay them. 392 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 14: The inconvenience factor rose significantly, and. 393 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 2: They knew that still the concessions Texico had made and 394 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 2: that Chevron accepted too, gave the plaintiffs enough of a 395 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 2: reason to keep going. 396 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 14: Having gotten those two concessions, which are huge because oftentimes 397 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 14: companies will then you know, the case will be removed 398 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 14: to another country, and these big companies like Texico just 399 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 14: won't show up, or they'll show up and say, hey, 400 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 14: this has to be dismissed because you lacked jurisdiction in 401 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 14: this case. That was not going to be an issue 402 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 14: for us. So the upshot is we decided to go 403 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 14: continue the case in Ecuador, which began what I call 404 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 14: really phase two of this battle. 405 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 2: Next time on Drilled, the case kicks off in Ecuador 406 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 2: and the surprising election of a wildly popular socialist president 407 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 2: changes the maths entirely. 408 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 9: Youa file prea Aliana Fay. 409 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 2: Drilled is an original production of the Critical Frequency podcast Network. 410 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 2: It's reported and produced by me Amy Westerbelt. My co 411 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 2: reporter on this season is Karen Savage. Our editor is 412 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 2: Julia Ritchie. Mixing and mastering by Mark Busch. Additional reporting 413 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 2: from Emily Gertz. Additional production help from Sarah Ventry. Original 414 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 2: score was composed by b Beeman. Matt Fleming created our 415 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 2: beautiful artwork for this season. Our fact checker is wood 416 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 2: On Yon, Our First Amendment attorney is James Wheaton, and 417 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 2: the First Amendment Project Maggie Taylor is our marketing director. 418 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 2: You can find supplenll stories, documents, photos and interviews on 419 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 2: our website at drillednews dot com. If you're a Patreon subscriber. 420 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 2: Thank you. 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