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Speaker 1: On this episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly, pop culture and

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Speaker 1: sports collide when actor and comedian Ben Schwartz and Sports

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Speaker 1: Illustrated Senior writer Chris Herring joined us to discuss Chris's

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Speaker 1: new book, Blood in the Garden are shared love of

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Speaker 1: the nineties n b A and the state of the

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Speaker 1: current New York Next and later, Ben Simmons and James

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Speaker 1: Harden were part of a blockbuster trade during last week's deadline.

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Speaker 1: But how will Simmons look on the nets and will

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Speaker 1: Harden finally make the Sixers a championship contender. I'm joined

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Speaker 1: by my friends and former co workers Haleyo Shaughnessy of

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Speaker 1: The Spinster's Podcast and Dan Divine of The Ringer for

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Speaker 1: a reunion deep dive. But first, Matthew Stafford and the

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles Rams are Super Bowl champions. But before they

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Speaker 1: even got to the big Game, there were whispers and

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Speaker 1: rumors about the legendary trip to Cabo that ended up

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Speaker 1: with Stafford being traded from Detroit to l A. Sports

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Speaker 1: Illustrated Senior writer Greg Bishop pulls back the curtain and

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Speaker 1: explains how a joint vacation, an unusual l a rainstorm,

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Speaker 1: and fate changed the Rams fortunes and altered the course

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Speaker 1: of NFL history. It's February sixteen. I'm your host, John

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Speaker 1: Gonzalez from Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. This is

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Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated Weekly. PS donn it tuxdown? With this touchdown

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Speaker 1: to Cooper Cup, Rams quarterback Matthew Stafford changed the narrative

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Speaker 1: about his career for good. After failing to win a

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Speaker 1: playoff game in twelve seasons with Detroit, Stafford won a

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Speaker 1: championship in his first season with the Rams, cementing his

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Speaker 1: legacy in a pressure situation, I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: have ever seen anybody be better than Matthew Stafford and

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Speaker 1: Cooper Cup. A lot of the Rams were looking for

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Speaker 1: the same vindication, Aaron Donald, Odell Beckham Jr. Eric Weddle,

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Speaker 1: Andrew Whitworth, and of course head coach Sean McVeigh. But

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Speaker 1: the Rams were built to win the Super Bowl and

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Speaker 1: they have sealed the deal. But before any of them

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Speaker 1: could call themselves world champs, including an especially Stafford and

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Speaker 1: unlikely and now legendary, set of circumstances had to unfold.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what you're gonna do? You're gonna send

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Speaker 1: the tourism industry in Cabo off the chain, how about that?

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Speaker 1: I mean, nobody believes that story is true. What happened

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Speaker 1: one year ago between Matthew Stafford and the Rams has

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Speaker 1: become the stuff of rumor and intrigue. So I kind

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Speaker 1: of linked the two of them up while they were

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Speaker 1: in Cambo the stuff to be traded, and I'd love

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Speaker 1: to talk to him. It's been whispered about in NFL

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Speaker 1: circles ever since. It was also coincided with him being

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Speaker 1: granted permission to seek a trade. It's starting to feel

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Speaker 1: really are a trip to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico that

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Speaker 1: would change the fortunes of the Rams in wholly unexpected ways.

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Speaker 1: It was just something that I didn't think it was

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Speaker 1: gonna ever happen, And you know an hour here. It's

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Speaker 1: a story that hasn't been told until now. It's really

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Speaker 1: crazy and it was really special. It's not even believable,

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Speaker 1: but it's the truth. As somebody who lives in l A,

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Speaker 1: I can tell you, it never rains in l A

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Speaker 1: except for what it does. Here's Melissa Whitworth, Rams tackle

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Speaker 1: Andrew Whitworth's wife the season was over, and Sean's fiance

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Speaker 1: Veronica called me and said, hey, listen, it's supposed to

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Speaker 1: rain all week here. You only get out of here.

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Speaker 1: I was like, ah, that sounds great. So within forty

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Speaker 1: eight hours decided we were rolling out. Melissa's husband, Andrew,

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Speaker 1: is the Rams left tackle. He's the oldest position player

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Speaker 1: left in the National Football League, and because he's older

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Speaker 1: than Sean McVeigh, they've been friends since Andrew came over.

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Speaker 1: In This is Greg Bishop, senior writer for s I

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Speaker 1: who wrote SI Super Bowl cover story from Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: along with Connor Orr. He spent time with the Ellie

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Speaker 1: Rams uncovering a piece of recent NFL lore. They decided

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Speaker 1: they're gonna go to Cabo this. It wasn't like to

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Speaker 1: go out and recruit, you know, a player who might

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Speaker 1: be there. It was simply like, let's go find a

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Speaker 1: beach where we can sit around and do nothing for

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Speaker 1: a few days. We knew we wanted to get away.

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Speaker 1: We travel with the White Worst Three frequently and so

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Speaker 1: that's a place that we had been before. This is

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Speaker 1: Sean McVeigh. It's a good place to kind of online

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Speaker 1: as the season ends. I love that part of the story.

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Speaker 1: I love that the mcveigh's and the white worst for like,

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Speaker 1: let's just get out of here, Let's go and put

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Speaker 1: our feet in the sand and try to decompress a

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Speaker 1: little bit. What is that dynamic like with that group?

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Speaker 1: It sounds like they spend a lot of time together. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think Andrew and Sean would make fun of me

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Speaker 1: using Netflix Buddy Show. I mean, you gotta picture their

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Speaker 1: images just to start with. You know, Andrew is six six,

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Speaker 1: he's over three hundred pounds, he's big bald. Sean calls

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Speaker 1: him the swaggiest offensive lineman in the NFL. He's like

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Speaker 1: a great dancer. He wears Jordan's very stylish. And then

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Speaker 1: his coach is smaller, much more type A. His hair

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Speaker 1: is indicative of his personality. It's perfect, it's always in

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Speaker 1: the right place, and him and Andrew a sort of

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Speaker 1: a really cool contrast and styles. What I think is

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Speaker 1: even more interesting in that regard is that they've sort

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Speaker 1: of evolved together. You know, Andrew was a guy who

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Speaker 1: played it for the Bengals for eleven seasons. He'd been

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Speaker 1: in the playoffs six times and never won a playoff game.

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Speaker 1: And Sean was a guy who was really tightly wound.

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Speaker 1: And Andrews showed him how to relax a little, to

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Speaker 1: not take himself as seriously, to evolve into a little

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Speaker 1: bit more fuller of a person. It sets the stage

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Speaker 1: nicely for Kabo because it's a very unique relationship between

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Speaker 1: player and coach. So the what Worths and the mcveigh's

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Speaker 1: go to Kabba, and as it turns out, there not

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Speaker 1: alone because half of the NFL was on vacation there.

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Speaker 1: Greg tell us about Kaba. It is a beautiful town

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Speaker 1: right on the ocean. The geography around it is very striking.

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Speaker 1: The w wordst like to go there. It's a place

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Speaker 1: they generally take vacations to. And like you said, half

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Speaker 1: the NFL was there. You're talking Sean Paid and Drew Brees,

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Speaker 1: Matt Naggy. I mean there was a ton of people.

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Speaker 1: And Matt Stafford actually told you they were planning a

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Speaker 1: vacation to go to the Bahamas at the same time,

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Speaker 1: but a big storm had come through so their plans

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Speaker 1: completely changed. We're thing, we're going to the Bahamas, and

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Speaker 1: then it kind of just come back from our hurricane.

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Speaker 1: Called the people wh knew there and they said, only

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Speaker 1: one of our restaurants are open. You know, it's probably

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Speaker 1: not worth coming. You should go to the place of

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Speaker 1: my Dominican look it up on my house. Beautiful. But

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Speaker 1: it's four and a half five hours from Detroit. I'm

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Speaker 1: sitting there going, if we're gonna go four and a a

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Speaker 1: half five hours, might as well just go somewhere we

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Speaker 1: know that we're gonna like, let's just go to Cambo.

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Speaker 1: They decided on Cabo serendipitously and happened to arrive at

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Speaker 1: exactly the same time. So we've talked about the coach,

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Speaker 1: we've talked about the quarterback, but as usual, it's left

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Speaker 1: to the lineman to do the actual heavy lifting. So

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Speaker 1: tell us who Clint Bowling is and what was his

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Speaker 1: role in this story. You're right, lineman. Always know that

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Speaker 1: some of my favorite soviceis And what happened with Bowling

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Speaker 1: like was really interesting because he made the connection himself.

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Speaker 1: He knew that the Wit Worst often vacation in Cabo,

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Speaker 1: So I know Wit goes there in the off season,

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Speaker 1: and I know I think he was there with Sean

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Speaker 1: just kind of right after their season was unwinding. And

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Speaker 1: he played college football with Matthew Stafford at Georgia. So

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Speaker 1: he figures out that Matthew Stafford is in Cabo and

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Speaker 1: on vacation with his family, and he figures out by

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Speaker 1: texting Whitworth that Andrews also there. Yeah, so Clint sends

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Speaker 1: me his number. It's basically just like he'll be down there.

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Speaker 1: And then, um, one of those kind of sharing with Sean,

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Speaker 1: that I was gonna play golf with him. Uh. It

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Speaker 1: was like, dude, like he's like up to be traded

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Speaker 1: and I'd love to talk to him because I heard

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Speaker 1: he was like allowed to seek his own trade or whatever.

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Speaker 1: This moment is imprinted in Sean mcveigh's mind. You know,

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Speaker 1: we were watching the NFC Championship game. I can remember

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Speaker 1: how by the pool and uh, when Whitward found out

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Speaker 1: that Stafford and his family were going to be staying

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Speaker 1: in the same area and was also coincided with him

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Speaker 1: being granted permission to seek a trade, and so that

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Speaker 1: was something that we thought was pretty unique for sure.

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Speaker 1: Bowling sends him a text message says they're yelling Cabo.

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Speaker 1: Andrew says yes. He says, Matthew Stafford wants to play

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Speaker 1: golf with you. And Andrew says, give him my number.

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Speaker 1: That that's NFL history and one text exchange right there

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Speaker 1: and kind of passed along that Andrew I got a

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Speaker 1: friend in Cabo, he ends up in Cabo. I liked

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Speaker 1: them up to just go out and play some golf.

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Speaker 1: The wake Bowling knows Whitworth is that he was a

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Speaker 1: long time Bengal. In fact, not only were they teammates,

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Speaker 1: but they were the left side of Incinnati's offensive line

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Speaker 1: for multiple seasons. So the irony is not lost on

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Speaker 1: Clint now that ultimately that text message exchange and sending

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Speaker 1: Whitworths number to Stafford, you know, could have changed the

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Speaker 1: trajectory of Bengal's history. I spent eight years in Cincinnati's

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Speaker 1: to seeing them in the Super Bowl. I'm a little conflicted,

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Speaker 1: but I definitely think about, you know, let's shoot, what

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Speaker 1: if Matthew ends up in Baker's Bay, or you know,

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Speaker 1: if I didn't link them up, if it all ends

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Speaker 1: up happening kind of thing, right, and you know, if

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Speaker 1: they win, or you're gonna be like, man, maybe should

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Speaker 1: have never said that number, you know, Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I like I needed to be I need to get

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Speaker 1: my finders that it's such an awesome connection. And again

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Speaker 1: they're like, so much of this is left to luck.

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Speaker 1: So matt Stafford goes out plays golf with Andrew Witworth.

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned, what Worth had played his first eleven

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Speaker 1: season with the Bengals. They never want a playoff game,

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Speaker 1: had gone thirty one years before this season without winning

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Speaker 1: a playoff game. And then, of course Stafford well chronicled

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Speaker 1: issues with the Lions forever and ever just not playing well.

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Speaker 1: They never want to playoff game either, So they go

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Speaker 1: out on the golf course. How does what Worth pitch

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Speaker 1: the rams to Stafford? You know, this is a private

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Speaker 1: members only course. You can see the Sea of Cortez

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Speaker 1: on one side the deserts on the other. So we

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Speaker 1: Worth did something that I think was really brilliant on

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Speaker 1: the golf course. I don't like to go play like

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Speaker 1: casual golf. There's always gonna be some time we're playing

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Speaker 1: for something, or we're playing for bragging rights or some

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Speaker 1: kind of competition. But I'm like, you know what, like

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Speaker 1: I want to get to know Matthew and just talk.

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Speaker 1: And so that's what we did. We just kind of

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Speaker 1: split around talking and get to know one another. He

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Speaker 1: can tell that Matthew is distracted. His agent keeps calling.

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Speaker 1: He seems kind of burdened by the whole thing, the

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Speaker 1: idea of picking up and like Andrew and Melissa, he

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Speaker 1: has four children with Kelly Stafford, and you know, moving

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Speaker 1: your whole family, and you've been in this routine even

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Speaker 1: if it hasn't netted the results you want for your

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Speaker 1: whole life. And so Andrew decides to speak from his

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Speaker 1: own experience. He says to Matthew, I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: try to sell you on coming to l A, but

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Speaker 1: I am going to talk about my situation. He lays

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Speaker 1: out the similarities. He says, Okay, this is why I

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Speaker 1: knew it was time to leave. You know, I knew

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Speaker 1: I was gonna have to take my final shots at

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Speaker 1: a ring elsewhere. He just wasn't really sure what to do.

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Speaker 1: And Andrew said, listen, guy, this is Melissa Whitworth again.

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Speaker 1: I want you to think on this because it's the

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Speaker 1: rest of your life at your legacy first and foremost.

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Speaker 1: Having been through this myself, I know all the emotions

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Speaker 1: with it. I want you guys be happy. Whatever's best

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Speaker 1: and whatever makes you feel good about where you're going

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Speaker 1: is the number one thing. And when I talked to

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Speaker 1: Matthew Stafford this week, he said he actually that was

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Speaker 1: the thing he appreciated most, both the lines understanding and

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Speaker 1: whitworth and what he told them. I'm in a lot,

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Speaker 1: you know. I have a lot of respect for what

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Speaker 1: he's done in this league and who he is as

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Speaker 1: a person, and he was definitely eye leaned on. So

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Speaker 1: you mentioned that Matt Stafford there on the course, he's distracted.

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Speaker 1: He's on his phone the whole time. I'm he's trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out if he wants to go to the rams. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Sean McVeigh is supposed to be relaxing in paradise. He's

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Speaker 1: doing the same thing as you write in your story.

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Speaker 1: He seems agitated, he's withdrawn, he's on his phone constantly.

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Speaker 1: They're all in paradise, They're all supposed to be having

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Speaker 1: a good time, but what's going on with McVeigh behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes. I love this part because it's just so Sean.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I profiled them in seventeen, I wrote

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Speaker 1: a lot about work life balance, which to him is

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Speaker 1: sort of a goal that he would like to have

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Speaker 1: but realizes he had. They will never have it. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're all in paradise. The wit Words have four kids,

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Speaker 1: their paddle boarding, they're hanging out of the pool. They

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Speaker 1: got all those good drinks with the sugar and the

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Speaker 1: umbrellas and guests who's nowhere to be found, you know,

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Speaker 1: Sean McVeigh. And essentially they thought he was a little

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Speaker 1: bit grumpy, a little bit moody, and just definitely not

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Speaker 1: in vacation mode. But what he was really doing was

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Speaker 1: calling RAMS executives who had been very late into the

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Speaker 1: Matthew Stafford derby. They were the last team that was

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Speaker 1: seriously contending for him that came in. Could they pull

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Speaker 1: off another heist? And ultimately they decided very quickly that yes,

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Speaker 1: that he would be the difference maker and that they

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Speaker 1: would push as hard as possible while they all happened

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Speaker 1: to be in Cabo to go get him. So in

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Speaker 1: order to get him to Los Angeles, RAMS general manager

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Speaker 1: Less Sneed needs to spring into action. And I think

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Speaker 1: everybody who knows anything about less Sneed now knows he

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Speaker 1: is a man of action. He is willing to play

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Speaker 1: for the now at the expense of the future. So

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Speaker 1: what happens as this whole thing gets ramped up and

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Speaker 1: less It's brought into the process and he decides, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Matt Stafford's our guy. Yeah, well, his whole team went

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Speaker 1: to work on it instantly, and like strongly. I think

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Speaker 1: it's interesting this season that people say that Rams went

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Speaker 1: all in, like he's he's always been all in. This

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Speaker 1: is a guy who thinks that draft picks are overvalued.

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Speaker 1: You know. That's essentially where the Rams differentiate themselves from

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Speaker 1: other teams. They believe that they're less guaranteed than you think,

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Speaker 1: and that if you can trade a couple of six

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Speaker 1: to get a player who's established in some ways, you

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Speaker 1: have a competitive advantage. You know that that sort of

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Speaker 1: process has been picked apart over the years. Some people

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Speaker 1: have mocked it. Uh, some people have memed it. But

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Speaker 1: I think you know, what Less is looking for, based

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Speaker 1: on my conversations with him over the years, is essentially

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Speaker 1: a chance every year, you know, and so what what

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Speaker 1: gives you that best chance? If it's adding Matthew Stafford.

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Speaker 1: Great set the scene for us. It's a year ago.

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Speaker 1: It's January thirty there in Cabo. The Staffords and the

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Speaker 1: what Worst are at a restaurant in Cabo, and they

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Speaker 1: go and they have some drinks, and then they have

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Speaker 1: another rand and then they go to have dinner, and

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Speaker 1: then finally Sean McVeigh gets to walk in and break

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Speaker 1: the news. One person said, it was like where's Waldo?

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Speaker 1: Like everyone's just like, where the heck is Sean McVeigh,

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Speaker 1: What is he doing? And they learned enough drinks and

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Speaker 1: they're just hanging out because they have no idea really

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Speaker 1: where everything is at. You know, they know the Rams

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Speaker 1: are interested, obviously, they know that their negotiations that are ongoing.

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Speaker 1: But there were teams like Washington and Carolina that had

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Speaker 1: made significantly better offers, and there were rumors that if

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Speaker 1: Stafford went to a team that wasn't gonna contend, that

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Speaker 1: he planned to retire, rumors that people who close to

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Speaker 1: him have told me aren't true. But it also kind

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Speaker 1: of sets the background. So all of a sudden there

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Speaker 1: comes Mr Perfect hair spiked right in the front, just

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Speaker 1: like always, and he walks into the restaurant and at

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Speaker 1: that point, Sean McVeigh looks at the table, very much

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Speaker 1: dramatic effect, little pause, and he gestures in Matthew Stafford

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Speaker 1: and he says, guys, this is your new quarterback. So Greg,

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Speaker 1: everybody's having a good time, but what worth and Stafford

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Speaker 1: and McVeigh decided to make a phone call a FaceTime actually,

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Speaker 1: and they FaceTime Cooper Coup and they're all excited about everything.

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Speaker 1: It's the night of Stafford landing with the Rams. January

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Speaker 1: tell us about that FaceTime and what happens almost exactly

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Speaker 1: a year later. It was pretty amazing. So there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of face times, Like these guys called Aaron Donald,

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Speaker 1: they called the Rams executives. They each called like people

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Speaker 1: in their respective circles. But the one that stood out

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Speaker 1: to me, I believe that Sean started the call with like, Coop,

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Speaker 1: we got a quarterback. I mean, I actually have a

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Speaker 1: picture of the three of us FaceTime and Cooper top

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Speaker 1: right after it happened, and we're on the phone with

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Speaker 1: Cooper and so I took a picture of us. The

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Speaker 1: FaceTime calling in and of itself isn't incredibly noteworthy. But

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Speaker 1: what is noteworthy is that, exactly one year later, almost

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Speaker 1: to the exact time, I believe it was about a

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Speaker 1: thirty minute time difference, those guys won the NFC Championship

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Speaker 1: and beat the forty niners. And you know, they took

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Speaker 1: another picture of the TV screen and it's everyone that

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Speaker 1: was there in a circle, hugging in triumph. And from

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Speaker 1: one January to the next to me is the story

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Speaker 1: of the ram Super Bowl, from like knowing you gotta

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Speaker 1: do something, has to doing it, to everything that happened afterwards,

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Speaker 1: and from all those things combining for the win. I

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Speaker 1: do a lot of scriptwriting, but I don't think I

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Speaker 1: could write a script that good. It's been an unbelievable journey.

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Speaker 1: That's my family and I have been on and it's

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Speaker 1: been an amazing twelve months. But we're win for sure.

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Speaker 1: And now they've won the super Bowl, their super Bowl champions.

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Speaker 1: That's the perfect ending to their script. It's the Hollywood

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Speaker 1: ending that they always wanted and they got it. Greg Bishop,

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Speaker 1: excellent work by you. Thank you for this. Thank you friend.

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Speaker 1: You can read Greg bishops super Bowl cover story, which

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Speaker 1: he co authored with Connor Or, about the Cabo trip

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Speaker 1: and so much more on SI dot com. Well linked

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Speaker 1: to it in our show Notes. After a break, Actor

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Speaker 1: and comedian Ben Schwartz and SI senior writer Chris Herring

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Speaker 1: joined us to discuss all things Nicks and nostalgia. S

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Speaker 1: I Senior writer Chris Harry is the author of the

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Speaker 1: New York Times best selling book Blotted in the Garden,

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Speaker 1: The Flagrant History of the New York Knicks. It's a

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Speaker 1: terrific book that perfectly captures those teams and the nineties

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Speaker 1: NBA nostalgia that I love. But as a Sixers fan

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Speaker 1: who definitely did not romanticize those nixt teams, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to have a conversation with Chris and someone who actually

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Speaker 1: held those pat Riley and Patrick Ewing teams near and

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Speaker 1: dear to his heart. And for that we brought on

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Speaker 1: a special guest who is a lifelong die hard Knicks

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Speaker 1: fan who was kind enough to join us. We just

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Speaker 1: what Georges and we said, Picks be a New York.

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Speaker 1: Were on the New York Knicks. Ain't go New York,

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Speaker 1: New Ylet Goin' go go New Ylet go go. You

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Speaker 1: can watch him on the new Apple Plus series The

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Speaker 1: After Party, and the second season of Space Force is forthcoming,

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Speaker 1: and you can carry him as the star in Sonic

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Speaker 1: to Ben Schwartz is here, gentlemen, Welcome to Sports Illustrated Weekly.

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Speaker 1: Hi everybody, what an exciting time. We're thrilled to have you.

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Speaker 1: I think when I think about those Knicks and that era,

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Speaker 1: I'm reminded of like the physicality and the ISOs and

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Speaker 1: backing people down and no easy layups and hard fouls,

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Speaker 1: and Chris, you wrote the literal book on it, so

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Speaker 1: that Air really embodied all of that, right, that's putting

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Speaker 1: it mildly. Uh. The Knicks did not have the offensive

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Speaker 1: talent that the Lakers did when pat Riley had been there.

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Speaker 1: They had Patrick Ewing and that was pretty much it

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Speaker 1: as far as the offensive talent they had. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: Mark Jackson, would dare you? Chris, how dare you? My goodness,

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Speaker 1: you wrote a book about this, and you're saying they're

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Speaker 1: soft outside of Patrick, not that they're soft, but well,

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Speaker 1: I mean soft offensively if you want to put it

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Speaker 1: that way. They did not have much to go to

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Speaker 1: offensively aside from Mark Jackson. But even that, they were

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Speaker 1: not a real up tembo team and pat Riley couldn't

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Speaker 1: utilize that. So he said, you know what, what do

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Speaker 1: I have at my disposal? Here had a bunch of

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Speaker 1: big bodies. He was big on messaging, and he told

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Speaker 1: them literally in first practice that he wanted them to

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Speaker 1: hack and to confuse officials enough to where they, you know,

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Speaker 1: they couldn't keep calling files after the first few minutes

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Speaker 1: of games, and that he basically wanted them to have

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Speaker 1: a nastiness and a toughness to them that nobody else

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Speaker 1: in the league had. Looking back now and even then,

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Speaker 1: Ben pat Riley coached this team, the Lakers show time,

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Speaker 1: run and gone and have fun. Like he coached a

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Speaker 1: bunch of guys who were like, yeah, we're not gonna

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Speaker 1: beat Michael Jordan's, so let's beat Michael Jordan's. It was incredible.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's the most exciting. But by the way,

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Speaker 1: also I think it's a it's very to bring into

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Speaker 1: comedy a little bit. I think that everybody's version of

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Speaker 1: like their SNL cast is their favorite SNL cast, Like

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Speaker 1: my like you know, like, oh yeah, my favorite version

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Speaker 1: of cast was this. So like, when you're growing up,

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Speaker 1: you have such a nostalgia for the team that you

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Speaker 1: grew up rooting for falling in love with basketball. So

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Speaker 1: for me because I was born in eight one, I

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Speaker 1: mean the Nicks, especially when they're going on their big

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Speaker 1: playoff runs at the beginning in the early nineties, then

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Speaker 1: with Camby at the end of the nineties, it's all

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Speaker 1: I love basketball so much, but as a kid, it's everything,

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Speaker 1: Like it's everything you care about, Like when they lose

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Speaker 1: to the Houston Rockets. I'm outside being very emotional shooting

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Speaker 1: baskets by myself, and you know all those things you're

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Speaker 1: pretending to be when you're out there. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to know. By the way, I picked

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Speaker 1: number twenty because so when I was in high school

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Speaker 1: and was playing basketball on the team, I wasn't getting

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Speaker 1: utilized very much. And so I my number was number

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Speaker 1: twenty because Rolando Blackman, I thought was amazing on the

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Speaker 1: Knicks when he got traded over and again, the roll,

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Speaker 1: the round, the river, the glass he's got do you

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Speaker 1: remember a lot of that? And he was, wasn't he He

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Speaker 1: He must have been twenty on the Knicks. He was

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Speaker 1: twenty two, I think he was. He was. He was funny.

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Speaker 1: So I love the way he shot, and I loved

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Speaker 1: I thought he was great, and he never got enough

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Speaker 1: run in my head, so I made I made that

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Speaker 1: my number. And then when I got older, I could

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Speaker 1: just when people didn't understand the reference, I could just

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Speaker 1: point to Alan Houston, who was the greatest, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the greatest nick shoot. I'm warning you already, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm just warning you spoiler alert. I won't give it away,

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Speaker 1: but there's some rough stuff in there out Rolando as

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Speaker 1: it relates to the Houston series. Really, I'm just preparing

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Speaker 1: you for it. I'm just getting you ready for it.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you brought this up because the

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Speaker 1: ninety four finals that you just mentioned, John Starks did

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Speaker 1: not play great in Game seven Rolando black Man. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people thought they should have gone to him. Ben.

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Speaker 1: What do you remember about that series and what kind

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Speaker 1: of residual nightmares do you still have from it? I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's so unfair to keep because John Starks,

426
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 1: if you're a Knicks fan, he's like your guy. You

427
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: can have your Hubert Davis's and your Greg Anthony's and

428
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:31,719
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and it's so exciting to see them

429
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 1: get run and play and stuff like that. Which I

430
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: love watching shooters because my game was anytime I went

431
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 1: in the paint, I would get my ass kicked because

432
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: I'm just like all bones and Jewish Maza. So I

433
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 1: just learned how to get a mid range game and

434
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 1: like a step in front of the NBA three point line,

435
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: which is still a college three back then. So it's

436
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: like very exciting. But I remember John Starks is like

437
00:22:51,119 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 1: the hero of all heroes soon from a whole water starts. Yes, stars,

438
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: so star Tomablaska falls for his background of not coming

439
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 1: from like a d one school and stuff like that.

440
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: But first of all, the lefty dunk changes everything. Second

441
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: of all, like he just tries so hard and he's

442
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: that the epitome of that. But I feel like every

443
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: time we bring him up now said he had a

444
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: terrible three point shooting percentage in the finals, I feel

445
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 1: like we we uh and we're not talking enough about

446
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: those local New York commercials where he's trying to raise

447
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: money for high school kids. Yeah. I mean, look, John

448
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 1: Starks had a great career and I hated watching him

449
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 1: because he always throttled the Sixers. But now when we

450
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: think about the reason why the NIXT lost the finals,

451
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people blame John Starks. So, Chris, what

452
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: did you uncover when you were reporting that for your book?

453
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: So now I guess we're getting We're getting all the

454
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: way into the spoiler spoiler John Starks, John John Starks.

455
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: John Starks is really the reason they even have a

456
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: chance to win this series. Youing is really just not

457
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: up to the task of scoring on a Lajah one,

458
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 1: And so Starks kind of becomes their number one option

459
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: because of it. He has a rough Game one, maybe

460
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: because his great uncle died right before the series. He

461
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 1: was supposed to have thirty family members and the audience

462
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 1: for Game one. His great uncle passes away. It's kind

463
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: of like the closest thing to father figure he has.

464
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: And so he shoots three or eighteen in game one.

465
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: But then he rebounds games two to six and he's fantastic.

466
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 1: He had sixteen points in the fourth quarter of Game

467
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: six and he makes six shots in a row leading

468
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: up to the last play of Game six. The Knicks

469
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: were down by two on the last play of the game,

470
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: so Starks looks like he has a wide open three.

471
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: If this shot goes down, they win a title. The

472
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: Kimo Lage one gets maybe a fingernail on the shot start,

473
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: so the Nick's lose Game six. What happens next, Starks

474
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: ends up basically developing a three night insomnia because he

475
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: can't get the play out of his head. And he

476
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 1: goes into game seven and he's a mess basically because

477
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: he hasn't been able to sleep and the issue that

478
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: came up two and a half weeks before the finals.

479
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: They win Game seven against the Pacers in an emotional fashion.

480
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: No player on that roster, that Nicks roster would ever

481
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,959
Speaker 1: won a championship. I don't even think anyone had ever

482
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: been to the finals. Even Rolando steps up and asks,

483
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: can we bring our wives to Houston? Because this is

484
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: a huge crowning achievement for us, and Pat Riley says no,

485
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,719
Speaker 1: So he asks again, I'm not understanding Pat, like, you

486
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,479
Speaker 1: really aren't gonna let us bring our wives? Why not?

487
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: And Pat just against says no, and he's kind of

488
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: offended and angry that Rolando would even ask a second

489
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: time in front of the whole team like that, because

490
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: Pat was rarely challenged and that way. So then you

491
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: fast forward to the finals moment Rolando hasn't gotten into

492
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: the finals at all. The Rockets are petrified Rolando Blackman,

493
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: because Rolando played for the Mavericks, had killed the Rockets

494
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: throughout his career, and Rolando never got in. Riley essentially

495
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: wrote letters to him, handwritten letters to him and the

496
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: years after, saying that it was the biggest mistake of

497
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: his career to not put And now Bett knows the

498
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 1: backstory behind his guy. So that's been completely spoiled for you. Yeah,

499
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: so now what am I gonna do? Just throw out

500
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: the book, Chris? Is there anything else in there? There's

501
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: a lot of other stuff in there. You know you

502
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: mentioned Youing and like that team and the the opportunity

503
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 1: that was miss because I think about the Iverson era

504
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: where I go, oh, man, I can't believe they didn't

505
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: get one championship out of it, Like Ewing was fantastic

506
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: and yet no championships. You're sor right, It's almost like, uh,

507
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: And you're watching him get older, you know, before he

508
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: was traded to Orlando and stuff, and like, we gotta

509
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: grab one. We just gotta grab one before this thing ends,

510
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: because he deserves it. He was so good for us.

511
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: I have, uh. I like sneakers a lot. I used

512
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: to work at the athletes Foot in Eastchester, so I

513
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 1: have these Jordan threes that are Nick's colorway, and I

514
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: thought it was amazing and I wear them all the time.

515
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: And then I put down the tongue. There here in

516
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,719
Speaker 1: this hotel room, somewhere, I put down the tongue and

517
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: it's the date that Jordan went bananas on the Knicks.

518
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: It's celebrating the name that Jordan crushed the Knicks, and

519
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: I wear these sneakers all the time, not knowing that

520
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: it's like a celebration of us getting our asses kicked,

521
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: which I thought was very, very funny. The Jay's the

522
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: shoes are fantastic, but like you're walking around rocking these

523
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: things as a constant reminder of your childhood missed opportunities.

524
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: Never bought anything Jordan. I mean it's to expensive anyway,

525
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: but never bought anything Jordan when I was a kid.

526
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: Um never had Jordan's until I was grown. I mean,

527
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 1: maybe you know, seven years ago because as a Knicks fan,

528
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: you hate you hate the ball so much, and my

529
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: brain isn't smart enough and advance enough as a kid

530
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, look at what we get to

531
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: watch right now. It's more just like every year they

532
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: beat us, every single year they beat us. And then

533
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 1: that's why it was like a little bit more fun

534
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: to watch Indiana series because Reggie would kill us every

535
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: now and then, but we would get them every now

536
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: and then too. Yeah, this is a perfect time to

537
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: transition from Reggie Miller killing the Knicks to today when

538
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: now Trey Young is killing the next Because I'm wondering

539
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: how you guys feel about these next. At the beginning

540
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: of the season, there was bing bong and everybody was excited,

541
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: and people are hyped about Julius Randall and everyon Fournier

542
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: and Kemba Walker, and now none of that excitement exists.

543
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: So what happened? I don't get the Kemba stuff at all,

544
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: and I think it's just because I haven't been reading

545
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: up on and enough. He's still skilled offensively, but I

546
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: think it takes like his tank empties a lot faster. Now.

547
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: It's very clear Fournier is like an inconsistent guy for

548
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: them that can go off for forty five when he's

549
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: playing Boston, but it's not gonna be there every night.

550
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: I think a big part of his Julius not having

551
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: the same space like he played a lot of last

552
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: season without a true true center. Mitch was out for

553
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: most of the year. Now he's there, and now he's

554
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: got like a big man that's kind of clogging a

555
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: lot of the paint in a way that wasn't happening before.

556
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: Where they had all those shooters last year. Everybody shot

557
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: like from three last year, and now you know Julius

558
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: isn't doing that, and r j has done better lately,

559
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: but has had you know, hot and cold moments as well,

560
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: and not having Rose has been huge for them. But

561
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: I just think you can't really overstate how important that's

562
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: been for them. Oh it was so fun to watch

563
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: Derrick Rose again. Do you know? It's crazy. As frustrated

564
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: as you may get every now and then, I find

565
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: myself so excited still and so because there's always every

566
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: game there's a shot, I think, and in previous Nick

567
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: teams that was never the case, and it's like and

568
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: you just you know, you go through it. And all

569
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: my friends were Lakers fans and make fun of me,

570
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: and I hated it, and now we have the same

571
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: record as them, and it makes me so happy. All right.

572
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: So the Lakers are obviously a storied franchise, but the

573
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: Buses are legendary owners, and I just feel like Nix's owner,

574
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: James Dolan, is more notorious than legendary. Can they win

575
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: a championship with James Dolan? I think you could. I

576
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 1: just think the real kind of common denominator other than

577
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: Dolan is that they haven't had a superstar since you

578
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: like a legitimate like you know, you're in year out

579
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: you're gonna be in this thing superstar. Since Patrick, I

580
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: think that there was hope that Carmelo could be that guy.

581
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: So I think that's the bigger issue. Like I think

582
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: people would forget about Dolan if they were able to

583
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: have someone what aside there Now people aren't signing there

584
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: because of him. Then you can say that maybe it's

585
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: strictly adulent issue, but yeah, it could be that. Al Right,

586
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: so we're past the trade deadline? How do they fix

587
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: this thing now? If I'm management, I would probably scale

588
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: down a little bit and build for the future, because

589
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: you do have some young pieces that are really nice.

590
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: I would probably like you, guys, can't rush this thing

591
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: right next, are in it for the long game? Nice,

592
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: slow and study. Uh, this was very fun. I wish

593
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: nothing but another half century of futility for the next

594
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: although the Sixers have been just as bad. But I

595
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: appreciate both of you. Go read Chris Herring's fantastic new

596
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: book Blood in the Garden and read Yeah It's Waiting

597
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: for You at home, and go watch Ben on the

598
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: after party season to a Space Force and in Sonic

599
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: to gentlemen, thank you, nice to see you, guys, Thank

600
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: you for having me after a break an NBA media

601
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: reunion with Haleyo's Shaughnessy and Dan Divine to discuss Ben Simmons,

602
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: James Harden and the new Look Nets and seventy sixers.

603
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: She's one half of the Amazing Spinster's podcast, available wherever

604
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: you get your favorite shows, and he's one of the

605
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: best and most prolific NBA writers around. You can read

606
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: him every day on the Ringer. Haleyo Shaughnessy and Dan

607
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: Diviner here, Welcome to Sports Illustrated Weekly. My friends, we're back.

608
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: Whoop gons. Thank you so much for having us. Let's

609
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: talk about Derek White to the Celtics. Once upon a

610
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: time we did an NBA podcast together. Our producer on

611
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: that show is our producer on this show. Isaac Lee.

612
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: Good morning. He I am so hungover. How are you feeling?

613
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: Bright eyed and bushy tailed? We are recording this on

614
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: Monday morning. Yesterday was a Super Bowl. The Los Angeles

615
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: Rams won the Super Bowl. My Liver is not taking

616
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: it super well and he's a Rams fan, so congratulations

617
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: on that. But uh, I had to bring the gang

618
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: back together. Like I said, we used to do an

619
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: NBA podcast together and last week's Trey deadline shook the

620
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: NBA and filled my cold black Philly heart. Uh specifically

621
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: when James Harden was traded to the seventies Sixers and

622
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: Ben Simmons to the Brooklyn Nets. As It correct me

623
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, but I believe this is the first

624
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 1: time we've ever talked about the Sixers of podcast history

625
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: of audio. So I wanted to bring my friends together

626
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: to discuss this because it's a very important trade that

627
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: has changed the landscape of the NBA. As always, adhering

628
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: to our contractual obligations and protocols, Haley gets to go first. Haley,

629
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: were you surprised this deal got done given that it

630
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: came together so late and it involved two massive stars

631
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: and that they were traded to division rivals. Yes, pent

632
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: I never expected that this was going to happen during

633
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: the season. It seemed like obviously both sides wanted to

634
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: make something happen after the season, But all the initial

635
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: reports said that Harden realized the opportunity that this Nets

636
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: team had and where it could go, and so it's like,

637
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: why would you give up on a championship? And it

638
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: was only after the trade that they became not the

639
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: title favorites, which is wild there in the eighth spot.

640
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: So no, I didn't expect it all. I thought that

641
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: everyone wanted to remain in place at least this year,

642
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: and then it was just kind of after this time

643
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: out type of deal. Yeah, and you bring up a

644
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: really good point like that. You know, everybody expected the

645
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: Nuts to be the favorites, and Dan I was surprised

646
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: that the Nuts gave up on the Kyrie, Harden and

647
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: Katie experiments so quickly because they don't played sixteen games

648
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: together and they were thirteen and three during that time.

649
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: But I think you're right to point out the sixteen

650
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: games because it seems like the nature of the way

651
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: everything came together gave up on the experiment for them,

652
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: like Katie's injuries, the fact that they weren't able to

653
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: get through the playoffs last year with everybody intact, the

654
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: fact that Kyrie has chosen to make himself unavailable for

655
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,479
Speaker 1: a large portion of their games this year, and like

656
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: Katie's hurt, now Harden had to kind of shoulder this

657
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: huge burden on his own for a lot of this season.

658
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: They weren't getting what they hoped for. Nobody got what

659
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: they bought they sort of thought they were buying, Like

660
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: the picture on the package wound up looking a lot

661
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: different from what came together, and so I think Arden

662
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: looks at it and says, is this really my best

663
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: chance to win a championship? And then he goes and

664
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: he looks up the turnpike a little bit and he sees,

665
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: you know, maybe the m v P of the league

666
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: and says not, maybe the over there is better. And

667
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: that kind of sets everything in motion a lot faster.

668
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 1: Dan knows his audience calling him and be the m

669
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: v P. I love that. So, Haley, you brought this

670
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: up on Twitter, so I want to throw it out

671
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: to the gang. U asked if I have two more

672
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: despised star players ever made up a trade before? And

673
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,760
Speaker 1: I think that that's really interesting because James Harden forces

674
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: his way out of a second team in roughly as

675
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 1: many years. And then Ben Simmons, we all know how

676
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: he's thought of in Philadelphia. That's a complicated situation, but

677
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: he he obviously did not make himself well liked with

678
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: the way that he sat out this season. Do we

679
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 1: feel like that like that this is the epitome of

680
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: two guys who were hated by their own fan bases

681
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: being swapped for each other. No, it's not their own

682
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: fan bases with Ben Simmons, it is the Sixers fan base.

683
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: With Harden, he has been called thinks his entire career.

684
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: He's lazy, he does not play defense, he comes to

685
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: um training camps larger than people would like. The free

686
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: throws annoy people. He's literally been accused of ruining the

687
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: game of basketball. So I do think very much that

688
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: he's been hated by everyone. That's really not even all

689
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: of them either. I like that you mentioned that he

690
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: comes to training camp larger than people would like. It's

691
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: such a genteel euphemism. Isaac and Dan, what about Ben?

692
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: Because I think like I'm a little too close to

693
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: it to see how other people outside of Philadelphia feel

694
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: about him, Because look, he's a really good player in

695
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: a lot of respects. He influences the game in a

696
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: lot of positive ways. He's great on the break, he's

697
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: a great rebounder and excellent pass or other worldly defender

698
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: who can switch one through five. But deciding to take

699
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: your ball and go home because people were too mean

700
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: to you when I don't think that they were too

701
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: mean to you is difficult for Philadelphians too, And I'm

702
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: not using this in the way that you think I am,

703
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: but process it so like for you guys when you're

704
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,280
Speaker 1: watching from afar, like what did you make of Ben? Yeah,

705
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: I think that everybody kind of got what they want

706
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: it and that sort of sucks, Like it's kind of

707
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: a bummer that everyone got that they wanted in this case,

708
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: because the our lasting memory of Ben Simmons in Philadelphia

709
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: isn't like the All NBA trips and the you know,

710
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: near defensive Player of the Year caliber performances. It's him

711
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 1: turtling at the absolute worst time and then like not

712
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: giving you some kind of hero's journey return trip, Like

713
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: there's the narrative arc of what happened there you were

714
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: hoping for is just a straight line into a brick wall.

715
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: So he doesn't really go to Brooklyn with any kind

716
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: of momentum where people are like excited about this. It's

717
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: just like this guy, how did his way out of

718
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: one situation? The other guy powdered his way out of

719
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: two situations in thirteen months. We know this is a

720
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: big deal, but who should we be psyched about in

721
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: this context? And we're still gonna need to see Ben

722
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: Simmons be the guy we know he we think he

723
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: can be, because we didn't see that for the last

724
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: series we saw him, and we haven't seen him play

725
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: basketball in six months or eight months or whatever it is,

726
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: so to be revealed on that for sure. I have

727
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: a question if then comes back and he looks like

728
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: taller Tony Allen essentially, which is what he was last year,

729
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: wouldn't that be enough to fit next to Kyrie and

730
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: Katie and that next team to like make it pretty

731
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: far in the playoffs. Or does Brooklyn need Ben to

732
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,240
Speaker 1: be the Ben Simmons of promise. When you're saying of promise,

733
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: do you mean like the fully realized part that Philly

734
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: never got. Yeah, Magic Johnson without a jumper. And I

735
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: really feel like he's having a Wiggins moment right now

736
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: where he gets to take a step back and not

737
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: be in the spotlight, not have the expectations. It's going

738
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: to play out really well for him, because what is

739
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: very rewarding on a team if you can't do shooting

740
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: the other two most important things. He's excellent at playmaking

741
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: and defense. So my question, you know what I mean,

742
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: My my question about all that is just like, is

743
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 1: Ben Simmons gonna be okay with that? Like the last

744
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: time we saw him, he did not seem to want

745
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: very many parts of high leverage moments with the ball

746
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: in his hands. But everything else we know about Ben

747
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: Simmons is that he views himself as the point guard,

748
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: the number one guy, the guy who should have a

749
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 1: team built around him. Like if this turns into Kyrie

750
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: and k D get all the ball handling and shooting

751
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: opportunities late in the game, and you're just back in

752
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: the dunker spot again, like you are a couple of

753
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 1: playoffs ago. Is Ben Simmons okay with that? And there's

754
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: a read on this situation that is, it took all

755
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: this sort of drama and headaches and months and months

756
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: to get out and get what you wanted, And maybe

757
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: that is a time for reflection and sort of a

758
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 1: humbling experience where you figure out again who you supposed

759
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: to be. But if you're also like I just waited

760
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: and put my foot down until I got what I

761
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: wanted and now I'm in this other situation, are you

762
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: gonna maybe just think, no, I should be getting what

763
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: I want here too, So I'm really fascinated by what

764
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: kind of role he sees for himself there and like

765
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: how that actually looks in practice, provided we see the

766
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: realized version of that team with Kyrie Irving able to play,

767
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: which you know TBD, and with Kevin Durant healthy again,

768
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: which again we'll see you in a few weeks. But

769
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 1: I think a lot of that's gonna depend on Ben

770
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 1: simmons temperament, and man, if you are banking on something

771
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: Ben simmons Is temperament might not be the thing that

772
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: you want to be banking on. Yeah, I think the

773
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: answer to your question is, I mean, we saw it

774
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,320
Speaker 1: in the Toronto Series a couple of years ago, where

775
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: you know, if not for Kauai four bounced shot, maybe

776
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: the Sixers advanced. But Zach Lowe had asked Ben Simmons

777
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: about him being deployed in the dunker spot because they

778
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 1: basically had to take the ball out of his hand,

779
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 1: and they'd have in every single playoff because we saw,

780
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: you know what happens to Ben Simmons. He disappears because

781
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: he can't shoot and he doesn't want to shoot. And

782
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: he said, no, I'm not that guy. I'm not the

783
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: guy who's gonna be in the dunker spot. I'm better

784
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: than that, so I would be surprised if all of

785
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: a sudden he's like, yeah, I'm gonna do all the

786
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: little things that need to be done. I'm interested in this.

787
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna recuse myself from this. I'm gonna throw it

788
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 1: up to the group because again, I'm a little too

789
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: close to this. So I don't think that Sixers fans

790
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: really cared about the Nets before this, and I don't

791
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: really think that the Nets cared about Sixers fans either, right, So,

792
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: but now you have James Harden forcing his way out

793
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 1: and going to the seventi Sixers and Ben Simmons going

794
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: to Brooklyn. Does this make it an instant rivalry? I mean,

795
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 1: are we excited about this potential rivalry? I've literally only

796
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: met one Nets fan in my entire life, so I

797
00:39:55,320 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: don't know who is bringing the fury that Sixers fans have. Um,

798
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: I would say no, because everyone's happy. Like everybody is happy.

799
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: The only person who wanted Ben Simmons out of Philly

800
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: more than Sixers fans is Ben Simmons, So he's happy.

801
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: Sixers fans are happy hard and wanted out. He wasn't

802
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,919
Speaker 1: communicating with the team. He wasn't talking to Katie even

803
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: before the injury, So I think everyone's happy about this.

804
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think this has the bones for a rivalry,

805
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: but I could be wrong. What about it? Just as

806
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: consumers Isaac and Dan of basketball, are you excited to

807
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: see these two teams play each other? I mean, Isaac,

808
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: you're riding the post Super Bowl high. Is this going

809
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: to start really crank you up to another level? Actually? No,

810
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: not really no, because the exciting teams, unfortunately are in

811
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: the West. At the top of the West, Golden State

812
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: and Phoenix. They're the most exciting teams to watch right now,

813
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 1: day in and day out, and even in the East.

814
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 1: I feel like Milwaukee, having won the championship last year,

815
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: are still the quality team to beat, and it's not

816
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: these newly formed super teams. Now. The one player I

817
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: will highlight is going to be Joel Embiid. Dan, you

818
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: said earlier he might be the m v P. I

819
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: would go as far to say he is the m

820
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 1: v P. A big dude in Denver, my friend, there's

821
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: a big dude in Denver. Yeah. Yeah, But the team

822
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 1: is underperforming right, so, like it's really difficult to reward

823
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: him again, underperforming is the word. I think performing at

824
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: what they can do. They're injured, But I think I

825
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: think your point, Isaac is is well taken. Like the

826
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: top of the league is still at the top of

827
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: the West. But in terms of of I guess like

828
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: the storylines that kind of drive everything and the potential

829
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: for introducing new passion into it. I don't know that

830
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: anybody has associated passion, particularly with the Nets in any

831
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: of their iterations since moving to Brooklyn, Like there's been

832
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: a lot of attempts to kind of crank them up,

833
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: but it hasn't really happened yet. The idea of a

834
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: playoff series, Philly Brooklyn playoff series where like Simmons has

835
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: to perform in Philly under you know, the brightest lights

836
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 1: in the scrutiny, and Harden having to like address all

837
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: of the questions that he's had. Right, Like, the every

838
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: question that we have about James Harden always comes back

839
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: to what can you do in the playoffs when it matters?

840
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: And so far the answers so that have been pretty

841
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: lack luster here to say the least. So that's really

842
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,399
Speaker 1: interesting to me. Is that enough for a rivalry? I mean,

843
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: maybe in the context of an NBA where that this

844
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: really aren't a whole lot of rivalries. Players don't stay

845
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: with teams very long, Teams don't face each other all

846
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: that often. It's tough to do, but it might be

847
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: about as good as we get for right now. Like

848
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: it's close enough that if that series happens in a

849
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: couple of months, the pitch will be kind of feverish.

850
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: At that point. I think you guys are way overthinking this.

851
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: The answer is, yes, this is gonna be so fun.

852
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: I can't. I want to run something past you, guys.

853
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: So we had the All Star Draft last week and

854
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: Charles Barkley and Lebron James we're talking about James Harden's

855
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: health and I want to play that sound for you.

856
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: Is he can he? Is? He? Is? He? He hasn't played?

857
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: Is he healthy? Who's that? James? He hasn't played? What

858
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: happens if he got traded? He's healthy? Now he's missed

859
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: the last three with a with a handy And now

860
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: we know why Lebron carry a clipboard with right now

861
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,919
Speaker 1: it's not hot on that day he played the next game.

862
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: I love Charles Barkley alas his prediction is incorrect. The

863
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 1: Sixers announced as we were recording this that Harden is

864
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: out through the All Star break. He's going to rehab

865
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: his hamstring. He will not play in the All Star Game.

866
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 1: So that's a little bit of a bummer. We're gonna

867
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: have to wait a little bit to see James Harden

868
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 1: next to Joel Embiad. But let's talk about actual basketball here.

869
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: How do we think that he's going to pair with

870
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: Joel Embiad? Because our Sports Illustrated colleague Michael Peena little

871
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 1: lukewarm on this, is not sure how that's gonna work

872
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: out when you have two guys who are heavy usage

873
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: rate James Harden, as we know, loves the io and

874
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: Joel Embiad is having an m v P season. So

875
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: is this gonna be good? Or my should I start

876
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: getting nervous here? Yeah? I think the broad strokes on

877
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 1: Philly is like you are plugging a guy who, even

878
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: in a diminished state as he's been for most of

879
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: the season, is still an All Star. You're plugging him

880
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: into an empty space essentially in the lineup, or you're

881
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: having him replaced Seth Curry, who you know, as you said,

882
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: has been awesome as a dribble handoff partner in a

883
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: floor space and everything for him B but it's still

884
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,959
Speaker 1: not James Harden, you know. And we've talked so many

885
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: times with Sixers bloggers and other podcasters, like the guys

886
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: from the Right, Turkey Sanchez, about how it seems like

887
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: there's a rule where you can never have more than

888
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: one guard in Philadelphia who can dribble, pass and shoot.

889
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: And now they've got to Tyrese. Maxie has been fantastic

890
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: this season, so there's more firepower, more ways to fit

891
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: this together, more shooting. And I'm just like, if Embiid

892
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: wasn't on board for this and didn't have the kind

893
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: of big basketball brain to think about how we can

894
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 1: make it work, then I don't know that it would

895
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: have happened in this way. So there's a lot of

896
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: problems solving there. I think Doc Rivers will be able

897
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: to massage the egos and sort of help figure out.

898
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: Please Doc stagger these guys. Please let don't just make

899
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: it so that it's all bench lineups when you have

900
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: two guys like this, Um Isaac, I'm sorry, I know

901
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: that hurts you. It hurts your heart, you know, But uh,

902
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: if there's enough will. There will be ways to do it.

903
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: It's just it might take some sussing out. It might

904
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: take a little while to kind of break the eggs

905
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: to figure it all out. Dan, as a Clippers fan,

906
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be too optimistic about Doc Rivers staggering lineups.

907
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: I don't think that's within his vocabulary. Yeah, he hates

908
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: to do that for some reason. I'm more optimistic than

909
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: you guys are. Of course you are. I mean, look, yeah, surprisingly,

910
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: I think this is gonna work out great. Uh. Joel

911
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: Embiad forever has lacked a guard who can do the

912
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: things that James Harden can do, right. I mean, James

913
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: Harden is exactly what you in theory would want to

914
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: put with Joel Embiad. I mean, somebody who can dribble, pass,

915
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: and shoot, as we said, and he's one of the

916
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: best to ever do those things. So I'm excited for

917
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: Joel Embiad to have a running mate who is commensurate

918
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: with his with his ability. I'm also interested Bill and

919
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 1: we talked about this a little bit about how we

920
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: think Ben Simmons will pay in Brooklyn because on paper,

921
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: you look at it and go should work out great, right,

922
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: provided that he does all the things that Ben Simmons

923
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: does well and avoids doing the things that he doesn't

924
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 1: do well. But that caveat requires him not to be

925
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: the point guard with the ball in his hands at

926
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 1: all times, to be a glue guy. There's an exception

927
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: to even that, though. Are they gonna have him run

928
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: point when kay he's not playing because as of right now,

929
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: Kyrie still can't play at home, so they could There's

930
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 1: a couple of options. They could stick it and have

931
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 1: him be the four, or I've even seen some people

932
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,399
Speaker 1: play with the idea of the five the entire time,

933
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 1: or maybe they scoot Patty over. I'm really not sure

934
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: that's what I'm interested in. But because of the package

935
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: with Seth, I'm excited about this. I just think that

936
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: it's going to be away for Ben Samints to not

937
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 1: have all the pressure. You're really excited about Seth Curry.

938
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't think people are high enough on him.

939
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: And also, what's the Joe Harris status because that would

940
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: be extremely helpful as well, but that would take between

941
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: k D Joe Harris. The great mystery, Seth, you don't

942
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: need this man to shoot. I love that you keep

943
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 1: bringing up Seth Curry. I don't even think Seth Curry

944
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: is is excited about Seth carry as you are. But

945
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring this up because Doc Rivers now

946
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: he canceled practice, and somebody on Twitter mentioned that he

947
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: canceled practice so he could say goodbye to his grand kids,

948
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: which I think was hilarious. But Dr Rivers has now

949
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: traded his son in law and his son no compunction

950
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: whatsoever about trading family members. Uh. Last one for you guys,

951
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: I want to bring this up. March ten, the Nuts

952
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 1: are supposed to play at the Sixers and I'm sure

953
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: that the Sixers will have a touching tribute video for

954
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: Ben Simmons prepared. My question for you guys, it's gonna

955
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,919
Speaker 1: be wild if Ben Simmons plays. Do you think Ben

956
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: Simmons plays, Because if he does play, they're gonna have

957
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: to preemptively ban everybody who goes to that game for life,

958
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: like every Sixers fan is just never going to be

959
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: allowed back. But will Ben Simmons play against the Sixers? No,

960
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think that is exactly the situation.

961
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: You don't want to have to have him face before

962
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: it matters most. I mean there's an argument to be

963
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: made that, like ripping the band aid off and having

964
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: it happened before you get into a playoff series. It

965
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense too. But he made a

966
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: choice to not face a lot of that sort of

967
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: stuff already, and then he got to leave, got to

968
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 1: go where he wanted to go. I don't think he's

969
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 1: gonna stop making that choice. I don't see it. Yeah,

970
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: the heat you'd catch for skipping a game like that

971
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: or sitting out or whatever because you're like, have a

972
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 1: hammy or something, the heart and hammy. No one could

973
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:15,439
Speaker 1: see you wink, but I wink for you three, So

974
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 1: I didn't know this wasn't on YouTube. Sorry sorry, um.

975
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: The flag that you'd catch from something like that, like, oh,

976
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: you can't handle the pressure, you're a baby, you don't

977
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: want to face these guys. He's already gotten that. So

978
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: it's certainly not a case of him not wanting to

979
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: face those accusations. He's definitely already got that, like for months. See,

980
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: I'd love to be wrong about it, because I think

981
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: the only thing that we've seen in the recent past

982
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: it's been like that level of kind of intensity and

983
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: vitriol was when Lebron first went back to Cleveland and

984
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: that was like nuts. It was the loudest crowd I

985
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: ever heard through a TV. Was that Cleveland crowd sort

986
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 1: of responding to him coming back. And then we saw

987
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: how Lebron responded in a moment and the heat. It

988
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: was like a validation of the choice and that the

989
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 1: heat were amazing and he played fantastic in that game.

990
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: I'd love to see how Ben Simmons response to it

991
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: on the court. I'm skeptical that we're going to I

992
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: think it would be incredible. I can't wait. I'm very

993
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: excited about this and the trade in general. Isaac played

994
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: me out with a little so Many Sixers theme song.

995
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: As we do this, you can hear Haley and her

996
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: partner Jordan Ligann's on the Excellent Spinster's podcast. Please listen

997
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: and subscribe and always read Dan Devine on the NBA

998
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: is the most prolific NBA writer out there. I think

999
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: he wrote like seven pieces while we were recording this

1000
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: pot alone, Haley, Dan and Isaac, you guys are the best.

1001
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 1: It is always a good call when we get to talk.

1002
00:49:36,560 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: Thank you everybody. Sports illust Weekly is a production of

1003
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

1004
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1005
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite shows. And for more

1006
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated It's best stories and podcasts, visit SI

1007
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 1: dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced

1008
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: by Alex Kappelman, Cooper McKim and Isaac Lee, who was

1009
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: also our sound engineer. Our senior producer is Dan Bloom.

1010
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Scott Brody and me John Gonzalez.

1011
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Nolan Schneider. Thanks for listening,

1012
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: and if you've stuck around this long, we leave you

1013
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 1: with this from our conversation with Ben Schwartz. I'll introduce

1014
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: you guys, and we will run through nineties nostalgia, Nicks,

1015
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 1: Beanie babies, and all that ship