Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ook F Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: I'm taking a few days to reset as well as
Speaker 1: to celebrate. I don't know what the hell is left
Speaker 1: of this country, not really just my birthday, but in
Speaker 1: today's conversation, this was recorded on election day with doctor
Speaker 1: Jonathan Metzel, our friend and in house doctor, and I
Speaker 1: will say I am still, like many of you, still
Speaker 1: processing where we are and what's in store for us.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this for years. At this point, we
Speaker 1: know that there is a lot of darkness and a
Speaker 1: lot of pain that is headed our way beginning in January.
Speaker 1: I don't know how we will move move through. I
Speaker 1: don't know what is needed to move through. What I
Speaker 1: have been telling people is that you need to fortify.
Speaker 1: You need to fortify your homes, your hearts, your relationships,
Speaker 1: your communities, because what is going to be outside of
Speaker 1: the doors each and every day is going to be grotesque.
Speaker 1: It is going to be miserable, and that is the
Speaker 1: point to break our culture, our hope, our humanity. And
Speaker 1: so this conversation Jonathan and I just kind of reflect
Speaker 1: on where we've been over the last few years and
Speaker 1: where we think we are headed.
Speaker 2: Folks.
Speaker 1: You know that whenever we have the opportunity each week
Speaker 1: to speak with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzl,
Speaker 1: I am always thrilled. And this week we are coming
Speaker 1: to you. We are recording this on election day. We
Speaker 1: have no idea as millions of votes have already been
Speaker 1: cast and millions are lining up to vote what the
Speaker 1: outcome is going to be. But today, Jonathan, I actually
Speaker 1: want to talk about the fact that you and I
Speaker 1: have been in conversation for years. That it began I
Speaker 1: think during the pandemic or right before the pandemic.
Speaker 2: It is the beginning of the pandemic, the very.
Speaker 1: Beginning of the pandemic, and I think that both of
Speaker 1: us started. I asked you to come on to you know,
Speaker 1: to talk, be a doctor, help us through what we
Speaker 1: were trying to manage. And we've continued the conversation for
Speaker 1: four years every week, and so I don't know, I
Speaker 1: guess I want to say, like, how have you been feeling,
Speaker 1: how have you felt being on WOKEKF weekly for this time.
Speaker 1: We've had so many discussions, so much has happened in
Speaker 1: the world that we've been able to analyze and kind
Speaker 1: of you know, link arms and get through together. So
Speaker 1: how has that felt.
Speaker 2: I mean, we retrospect today, We'll do your retrospect the
Speaker 2: greatest of you know, and then we can do a
Speaker 2: prospect too. I'm happy to do some predictions here. But
Speaker 2: it's been you know, it's just funny. It really feels
Speaker 2: like on one hand, and I think rightly so, that
Speaker 2: so much of what we've spoken about has been leading
Speaker 2: up to this moment. In fact, like many many times
Speaker 2: over the past weeks, but particularly over this past week,
Speaker 2: something happened and I'm like Danielle, I talked about that
Speaker 2: six months ago actually, And so if there's something about
Speaker 2: like our process that I think is insightful about something
Speaker 2: that's happening that other people aren't seeing, I mean, that's
Speaker 2: among the many things I look forward to. But it's
Speaker 2: kind of like, it's not like we're conspiracy theorists. We
Speaker 2: are we have our ear to the ground in a way,
Speaker 2: and so I think that in addition to just the
Speaker 2: great the light of our conversations every week, which are
Speaker 2: just personally therapeutic and speaking to our listeners around the world,
Speaker 2: and beyond in other galaxies. I would say that there's
Speaker 2: something very prescient I think about our talks, because from
Speaker 2: everything from judges to election boards, to what would it
Speaker 2: mean to speak to white men? To what's Harris getting
Speaker 2: right and wrong? To where's this heading? The impact of
Speaker 2: Elon Musk, and especially for me this week, so much
Speaker 2: of our conversation when my book came out was about
Speaker 2: how public health becomes political. And then of course there
Speaker 2: goes RFK taken floor right out of our water and
Speaker 2: stuff like that, and so in a way, just there's
Speaker 2: just so many things that I think it's having this
Speaker 2: weekly dialogue kind of lets us unpack things in a
Speaker 2: way that I think is meaningful and useful and I
Speaker 2: think important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I think that we have had our
Speaker 1: finger on the pulse of a lot of conversations, a
Speaker 1: lot of because you know, you living inside of the
Speaker 1: world of academics, as well as movements in terms of
Speaker 1: public health, in terms of gun violence and gun reform.
Speaker 1: I think that it has helped guide this audience and
Speaker 1: provide some insight and also make people feel less crazy,
Speaker 1: knowing that people who do have their ear to the
Speaker 1: ground are feeling similarly in the way that they are.
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny. Right before I came on today,
Speaker 1: I'm you know, of course I'm going through the news,
Speaker 1: but I'm not turning on the news because I don't
Speaker 1: want to hear the chattering for seventy two, you know, hours.
Speaker 1: But I saw for the first time buildings in Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. Are boarded up, and they are it looks
Speaker 1: as if we were just told that a hurricane was
Speaker 1: headed to Washington, d C. In the way that plywood
Speaker 1: is going up and barricades are going up. And I
Speaker 1: said to my sister, who was here right before, I
Speaker 1: was just like, wow, this is really a sign of
Speaker 1: the times. And I don't want to ever take these
Speaker 1: images in as normal as just oh, that's what we
Speaker 1: do during elections. And so hearing that and maybe you
Speaker 1: saw the images because they were on BBC, They're on
Speaker 1: the National Review, They're everywhere right now, What does that
Speaker 1: symbolize to you? How does that make you feel to
Speaker 1: see that for the first time in our modern history,
Speaker 1: that this is how our nation's capital is preparing for
Speaker 1: an election.
Speaker 2: It's a sign of the times. We've had those barricades
Speaker 2: and smaller versions go up. Really after January sixth of
Speaker 2: zillion times, right after Supreme Court decisions, Supreme Court hearings,
Speaker 2: other kinds of things. You know, just use the title
Speaker 2: of an excellent book. This is what we've become because
Speaker 2: the idea that we are a very divided nation. And
Speaker 2: I also think that public gatherings, even celebratory gatherings, are
Speaker 2: wrought with politics. I mean, think about the Super Bowl parade.
Speaker 2: When the Kansas City Chiefs won the Super Bowl last year,
Speaker 2: there was a mass shooting at the super Bowl parade.
Speaker 2: So there's a level of awareness about just public gatherings
Speaker 2: and how people act in public and the relationship between
Speaker 2: like individual liberty and communal responsibility. That just we are
Speaker 2: essentially those barricades right now. That is who we are.
Speaker 2: And so the question of can we work back from that?
Speaker 2: And I do think that there are two models in
Speaker 2: front of us of how to work back from that.
Speaker 2: I mean, Trump is saying I'm going to take control
Speaker 2: of everything. We don't need these barricades because I'm going
Speaker 2: to take over the mechanisms of everything, and We're going
Speaker 2: to have military parades and all these kind of things.
Speaker 2: And Harris is saying, this is not who we are.
Speaker 2: And let's work back toward a more communal form of
Speaker 2: collaborative government. So in a way, those barricades present two
Speaker 2: very different models of how to move forward that ironically
Speaker 2: both are involved in taking them down, just in very
Speaker 2: different ways.
Speaker 1: What is the mood right now in Tennessee where you are?
Speaker 1: How are people in your state kind of moving about?
Speaker 1: We talked a couple of weeks ago about your record
Speaker 1: early voting that had happened. I talked to a couple
Speaker 1: of people actually in Tennessee that it's said for the
Speaker 1: first time when they went to vote, there were lines
Speaker 1: at early voting and like and feeling a certain kind
Speaker 1: of energy. What has the mood been.
Speaker 2: Well, we've talked about on this show that slaces like
Speaker 2: Tennessee that figure out this system are going to be
Speaker 2: models for everywhere, right, I mean the problem in Tennessee.
Speaker 2: We have incredible candidates running incredible I'm Sundell Brooks, the
Speaker 2: mother of a victim of the waffle house shooting, is running.
Speaker 2: Megan Barry is running against Marshall Blackburn and has tremendous
Speaker 2: support here in Nsville, where we have a great majority
Speaker 2: of the population of our area. Fantastic candidates covenant moms
Speaker 2: running things like that. The problem is we've been jare manders.
Speaker 2: So we're say we're fighting an uphill battle with both
Speaker 2: arms and both legs tied behind our back. Is kind
Speaker 2: of app and so the question is we're laying the
Speaker 2: groundwork for something here. There's tons of mobilization around gun safety,
Speaker 2: around other issues, and I think partially in the aftermath
Speaker 2: of mass shootings like the ones I write about in
Speaker 2: my book, people started to wake up to hey, wait,
Speaker 2: this system isn't working for us. But it's just hard
Speaker 2: to see how much germandering safe districts like Jim Cooper's
Speaker 2: old district of reliably great Democratic congressman here collapsing those
Speaker 2: into just adomized voting blocks. It's just hard to see how.
Speaker 2: And again, I'm just reinforcing something you and I have
Speaker 2: talked about a million times here, which is when the
Speaker 2: other side controls the judges, and judges can get away
Speaker 2: with yep this. So we're seeing that across the country,
Speaker 2: and so I hope there are some amazing surprise victories here.
Speaker 2: I think we've built coalitions here that I think are
Speaker 2: going to sustain. I think people are aware, but I
Speaker 2: also think that the flip side is if that doesn't happen,
Speaker 2: the other side can say, look, we've built this system
Speaker 2: that can weather even the most energized coalition on the
Speaker 2: other side and still win. And so we'll see. I'm
Speaker 2: going to a bunch of different election watch parties tonight
Speaker 2: for different candidates, and I'll let you know how that goes.
Speaker 1: Please do because I think you know, I think you
Speaker 1: said an important phrase, which is building infrastructure, that the
Speaker 1: ability to turn the reddest of states purple is not
Speaker 1: something that happens overnight. It's not something that happens in
Speaker 1: one election cycle or two election cycles. I never thought
Speaker 1: in my life that I would see the state of
Speaker 1: Georgia turn blue, and it's done so twice. And so
Speaker 1: I think that Georgia is a model for the kinds
Speaker 1: of decades long work that needs to go into these states,
Speaker 1: the same way that we are seeing work being done
Speaker 1: in Texas to mobilize people around these systems of ry
Speaker 1: mandering that have just been the law the land, and like,
Speaker 1: what can people do? But I think that when you
Speaker 1: see a Georgia, when you see in North Carolina, when
Speaker 1: you see these places that are fundamentally have been read
Speaker 1: for generations make this change. It's not like people all
Speaker 1: of a sudden woke up and had an epiphany. It's
Speaker 1: the work that's being done quietly and largely underfunded that
Speaker 1: gets to this place well.
Speaker 2: But also that we didn't get into this whole overnight either,
Speaker 2: And so there's a fifty year history of Republicans realizing
Speaker 2: that power runs through judiciaries and that grassroots organizations like
Speaker 2: the NRA at the time have tremendous way and deep
Speaker 2: pockets and things like that. And so I do think
Speaker 2: that you and I spoke about in the beginning that
Speaker 2: there was a frustration of our side to not see
Speaker 2: that for quite a long time. And I think right
Speaker 2: now there's it's encouraging to see organizations and other groups
Speaker 2: and people and voters recognizing that this is part of
Speaker 2: the process. That you can go off and say anything
Speaker 2: you want on social media, but if you don't have
Speaker 2: a plan for how school boards and election boards and
Speaker 2: library boards and things like that are the ground on
Speaker 2: which we build. And so I just you know, I
Speaker 2: think we also we've started in a hole in part
Speaker 2: because of this, and I think there's a waking up
Speaker 2: about that. But I don't know, it's funny that like
Speaker 2: Tennessee is the state of al Gore. It's the a
Speaker 2: form of centrism that we used to kind of have
Speaker 2: as a model that would be represented of the what
Speaker 2: was called the time the New South. And so it's
Speaker 2: not like people can't do it, it's just, you know,
Speaker 2: our politics don't allow it.
Speaker 1: Right now, Let's look ahead a little bit if we can.
Speaker 1: I personally can't see a damn things past today, but
Speaker 1: I do want to take a look ahead at the
Speaker 1: two versions of America that we're staring at right now.
Speaker 1: What do you see going forward? If Donald Trump wins.
Speaker 2: Well, predictions are hard. Again, people should know we're speaking
Speaker 2: before the election, but you know, I'm happy to predict,
Speaker 2: Like if anybody listens to this, I would bet that
Speaker 2: the Kansas City Chiefs are going to beat the Tampa
Speaker 2: Bay Buccaneers. I'm Monday Night football in overtime by six points,
Speaker 2: just a feeling I have. We'll have to see what happens,
Speaker 2: and I guess for the election, the issue is going
Speaker 2: to be. You know, it's funny because I've been asked
Speaker 2: a lot by the media, like how can people heal
Speaker 2: and how can people take back their mental health and
Speaker 2: things like that. And what I keep saying is uncomfortable
Speaker 2: blaming that on individual psychology because it's so responsive to
Speaker 2: external factors. And so in a way, if the candidate
Speaker 2: who quote unquote wins the election, says, we've had a
Speaker 2: hard time do this election, and now it's time to
Speaker 2: bring things back together. And unfortunately we're in a zero
Speaker 2: some political system, but let's make sure there are more
Speaker 2: voices at the table that would do more for mental
Speaker 2: health than anything that I could ever recommend in terms
Speaker 2: of like sleep and eat a lot of snacks and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. I don't have a ton of faith
Speaker 2: that if Donald Trump won he would do that. But
Speaker 2: even for Trump, he's been pushed into this crazy dark
Speaker 2: place and also been pushed by people to whom he
Speaker 2: sold his soul, like RFA Junior, to adopt crazy positions.
Speaker 2: And so in a normal election, there would be like, Okay,
Speaker 2: we've had this, let's all come together. But I think
Speaker 2: we have a winner take all, zero sum political system
Speaker 2: that Trump has taken to heart, and for him, winning
Speaker 2: means then wiping out your enemies. And so I guess
Speaker 2: the question would be if this is that, if that
Speaker 2: is the outcome here. There was shock in twenty sixteen
Speaker 2: went he won, and then people mobilized around democratic institutions.
Speaker 2: And the question will be is that going to happen
Speaker 2: here or is his power all that much greater because
Speaker 2: he's like the staypuff marshmallow Man at the end of
Speaker 2: the first Ghostbusters movie, like he's just ingested everything already,
Speaker 2: and he already has more mechanisms of power and more
Speaker 2: of a plan. Are people exhausted from the election or
Speaker 2: is there going to be resilience or are people you know,
Speaker 2: I've heard so many people say people get what they
Speaker 2: deserve or something like that, like kind of let it
Speaker 2: play out as a morality tale. So I think it'll
Speaker 2: be a pretty interesting you know, we can talk about
Speaker 2: this going forward. I think it'll be a pretty interesting
Speaker 2: challenge if that happens, which I don't hope it doesn't.
Speaker 2: For the left, do we move to the center, Do
Speaker 2: we move to the left or we in the resistance?
Speaker 2: Are we just giving up? Are we all going to
Speaker 2: take my advice and move to Dave and Busters? You know?
Speaker 2: And so we'll have to see. I don't know how
Speaker 2: would you answer that question.
Speaker 1: I don't ever remember because this has never happened before,
Speaker 1: the kind of collective anxiety and stress and fear that
Speaker 1: people have right now that you're seeing all around social media.
Speaker 1: And I that I have probably what I call pandemic
Speaker 1: level anxiety right now, where I'm worried about myself, my family,
Speaker 1: everyone around me, and like what is going to happen?
Speaker 1: Like what will America look like moving forward? And you know,
Speaker 1: much in the same way that I don't feel as
Speaker 1: a country we have processed the trauma induced by COVID.
Speaker 1: I don't know if A Harris wins. I think that
Speaker 1: the work ahead is so hard, right, like, at least
Speaker 1: we know that we can link arms and try and
Speaker 1: build and repair together. But the fracture is so deep
Speaker 1: and so big that it is going to take all
Speaker 1: of us to put it back together. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if we I don't think that we ever go
Speaker 1: back to the before time, much in the same way
Speaker 1: that I feel, like, quote unquote post COVID, that we
Speaker 1: haven't really gone back to a before time. Like you know,
Speaker 1: you know more so than anyone that if you don't
Speaker 1: process trauma, it you know, manifests itself in other ways.
Speaker 1: And so I'm curious as to what that looks like collectively.
Speaker 2: I mean, again, I have very strong opinions about if
Speaker 2: Harris wins, I have very strong opinions, but I don't
Speaker 2: feel like we're there right now. I mean, if Harris winds,
Speaker 2: reparation can't just be let's all come together around the table.
Speaker 2: It actually means trying to understand some deeper currents about
Speaker 2: what Trump has promised other people and why that resonates.
Speaker 2: It's not just like I mean, I'd never forget in
Speaker 2: my book, like some guys said, liberals think that if
Speaker 2: they just shout their policies louder or market them different,
Speaker 2: I'm going to agree with them. But I actually have
Speaker 2: a totally different paradigm. So it'll take understanding different paradigms
Speaker 2: for that. But we're not there right now, Like, let's
Speaker 2: let's figure out what's going to happen. I hope that's
Speaker 2: a problem we have.
Speaker 1: I mean I do. I will say the same. I
Speaker 1: do hope that it is a problem that we have,
Speaker 1: because I think that you and I will continue being
Speaker 1: in conversation about what comes next regardless. But I want
Speaker 1: to say, Jonathan, as we close out today, that I
Speaker 1: really I have deep appreciation for you for the way
Speaker 1: that you've shown up for the WOKF audience over the
Speaker 1: last four years, with such commitment and such passion. It
Speaker 1: really means a lot to me but also to the
Speaker 1: audience to have you as their weekly guide. And I
Speaker 1: really appreciate that.
Speaker 2: I feel the same so deeply, and I'm so excited
Speaker 2: to keep having these conversations and hopefully we'll be having
Speaker 2: them just as we always do, free and open. It
Speaker 2: might be like coming to you live from an undisclosed
Speaker 2: location behind the whack a mole at a Dave Investor somewhere.
Speaker 2: I get no money from Dave Investors. I just am
Speaker 2: a fan. But so you know, TBD. But we will
Speaker 2: keep talking, so.
Speaker 1: Everybody real booking talking. Buckle up, hang in there, everybody,
Speaker 1: as Jonathan has been telling us to do for four years,
Speaker 1: appreciate you. That is it for me today, Dear friends
Speaker 1: on WOKEF as always, power to the people and to
Speaker 1: all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.