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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Rousing, part four of our deep dive
Speaker 1: into Korean anarchism.
Speaker 2: You did it, you did it, Joe.
Speaker 1: Wait, I don't get it. Wait, that's okay, that's happening,
Speaker 1: It's okay. Was I being compared to Joe Biden for
Speaker 1: not having a memory?
Speaker 2: Oh I was so dark? Oh my god.
Speaker 1: No, you were being compared to Kamala Harris finding out
Speaker 1: Joe Biden beat Donald Trump out and calling him.
Speaker 2: And going you did it, Joe.
Speaker 1: Hooray.
Speaker 2: That was so much funnier than it was supposed to be.
Speaker 1: So to sum up where we're at Korea in case
Speaker 1: people are like just checking in on the last episode,
Speaker 1: that's fine. It's fine if you did that, although you
Speaker 1: miss a lot. Korea was a Japanese collum in the
Speaker 1: nineteen tens until World War Two, and a lot of
Speaker 1: Korean rebels, including a lot of anarchists, fled Tomentaria. This
Speaker 1: is my little like, little like. If you're catching up
Speaker 1: on the Batman episode, here's the recap. You know, a
Speaker 1: lot of Korean rebels, including a lot of anarchists, fled
Speaker 1: Tomentaria immediately north of Korea. Korean anarchists developed a lot
Speaker 1: of skills and ideas and philosophies and connections in China
Speaker 1: and Japan with comrades there. And I have been trying a
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff to make Korea both independent and also
Speaker 1: a horizontal society. They opened a ton of schools, they
Speaker 1: organized a ton of labor unions, they wrote a ton
Speaker 1: of books and newspapers, they organized gorilla bands. And that's
Speaker 1: the part I know at least about, and I want
Speaker 1: to know more about. But generally they were cool people
Speaker 1: doing cool stuff. And so there's two million Korean people
Speaker 1: living in Manchuria by the mid nineteen twenties or so,
Speaker 1: and they were at war on a lot of fronts.
Speaker 1: They were at war against starvation because they're in an
Speaker 1: incredibly inhospitable land like well, we'll talk about more in
Speaker 1: a second. They're at war against the Japanese military who
Speaker 1: wanted to destroy them as Korean rebels, but also wanted
Speaker 1: to colonize Manchuria. They were also fighting against the pressures
Speaker 1: from the constant warring in China, most specifically raids by
Speaker 1: bandits and acting like bandits Chinese Communist Party. Manchuria countries
Speaker 1: are fake and borders are fake. But Menoria is usually
Speaker 1: presented as a region of China, but what could get
Speaker 1: called Manchuria also extends up into what's currently Mongoli in
Speaker 1: Russia because borders regions alfake. I have seen the Korean
Speaker 1: presence in Manchuria described a lot of ways. I know
Speaker 1: that's the theme of this fucking episode. A whole gradient
Speaker 1: goes from oh, this is just warlordism whatever, They're just
Speaker 1: the same as everyone else too. This is an anarchist
Speaker 1: utopia of two million people who prove that all of
Speaker 1: our ideas are right and there's nothing wrong with any
Speaker 1: of them. I suspect that the truth is not just
Speaker 1: in the middle, but like a dialectical third thing.
Speaker 2: Ooh in narco warlordism.
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, yeah, a narco nationalist warlordism. No, it's
Speaker 1: funny and messy. It also, when I'm trying to read
Speaker 1: about all of it, it doesn't help that every text
Speaker 1: transliterates everyone's names differently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a whole thing. Oh yeah, And.
Speaker 1: Then a lot of the people are like related to
Speaker 1: each other and just their names will be extra similar.
Speaker 1: And then like translator, So I basically mean like, is
Speaker 1: this two guys, this one guy? Is this eight guys?
Speaker 1: Because I'm looking at eight names. You know that happened
Speaker 1: a lot, But I believe I have a clear picture.
Speaker 1: I'm going to present you a fairly clear picture. Koreans
Speaker 1: have been moving into Manuria since about nineteen ten. This
Speaker 1: is rugged mountains, which is usually the kind of place
Speaker 1: historically with the least government, and that is totally honestly
Speaker 1: part of why I live in West Virginia.
Speaker 2: Just be real.
Speaker 1: One source claims that the area was under warlord rule.
Speaker 1: One claims that the areas that they were in wasn't.
Speaker 1: And I suspect that the source claiming warlord rule was
Speaker 1: claiming the Korean generals as warlords. But there's also this
Speaker 1: thing where the Korean population was largely living in these
Speaker 1: very remote areas, and so the warlords that would rule
Speaker 1: mostly which were mostly Japanese aligned at this point, or
Speaker 1: at least the main particular war war that they came
Speaker 1: up against a bunch of times as Japanese aligned until
Speaker 1: they killed him.
Speaker 2: Which warlord is it? I remember him.
Speaker 1: I didn't write his name in and I feel so
Speaker 1: bad the Japanese eventually assassin I was like, I have
Speaker 1: too many names in the script. The Japanese assassinated him.
Speaker 1: I kind of actually didn't include him at all in
Speaker 1: the script. But eventually he didn't like successfully stop the
Speaker 1: nationalist enough Chang Kai Shek enough, so the Japanese who
Speaker 1: were his allies just like assassinated him by bombing the
Speaker 1: train he was on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so I will say this about that guy.
Speaker 2: I remember this guy from the Warlers episode that I did,
Speaker 2: and the source I was reading was claiming that he
Speaker 2: wasn't actually a Japanese asset. It's just that everyone accused
Speaker 2: him of being one because they assumed that he was
Speaker 2: because he was fighting the nationalists and he kind of wasn't. No,
Speaker 2: that would make sense because they yeah, they blew his
Speaker 2: ass up. So I'm blinking at his name because it's
Speaker 2: been like several years. Yeah, I really right to this stuff.
Speaker 1: No, and I considered him a side quest that I
Speaker 1: decided to abandon. He's like one of the trimmed branches. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: there's so much.
Speaker 2: Also, one thing I do want to mention that I
Speaker 2: think is kind of important to this story that isn't
Speaker 2: talked about that much is that like Mansuria is by
Speaker 2: Chinese standards, like fairly close to like it's not that
Speaker 2: far away from from Beijing, Like it's kind of remote
Speaker 2: in the sense that like it's not it's I mean,
Speaker 2: it's it's a different power center than most of the
Speaker 2: sort of like traditional Chinese power centers, right. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's make sure he is the place where the manchees,
Speaker 2: which is the the Qing dynasty came out of. But
Speaker 2: it's close enough to Beijing that it's kind of an
Speaker 2: issue for people.
Speaker 1: No. See, that's like, that's a good context. So overall
Speaker 1: the Korean people living there. Because I was trying to
Speaker 1: figure out, I was like, there's two million people here.
Speaker 1: It's not Tara Knollys right. I was like, how is
Speaker 1: it two million in Korean people in Korean societies? And
Speaker 1: the answer is that they best as I can tell,
Speaker 1: they did sort of find the areas that weren't super
Speaker 1: populated because they're in the mountains and shit. But overall,
Speaker 1: the Korean people are living outside of the Chinese state
Speaker 1: and outside of external warlord rule, and they are outside
Speaker 1: of control by Japanese or Russian forces. By nineteen twenty five,
Speaker 1: they set up three self governing prefectures, the jiong Chen,
Speaker 1: the Chanren, and the shin Men. These were set up
Speaker 1: by various gorilla groups that were all doing the fighting.
Speaker 1: They collectively had a militia basically those gorilla units, right,
Speaker 1: and they defended the area and they were occasionally raiding
Speaker 1: into Korea against the Japanese. As best as they understand,
Speaker 1: this was the Korean Independence Army, not to be confused
Speaker 1: with the other Korean Independence Army, which existed from nineteen
Speaker 1: nineteen to nineteen twenty one and is the main thing
Speaker 1: you find when you try to do more research about this.
Speaker 1: But it's also called the Army of the North, which
Speaker 1: is a sick name, that's true. And it grew out
Speaker 1: of these righteous armies, right, the original one, the one
Speaker 1: that disbanded in nineteen twenty one, the Korean Independence Army.
Speaker 1: It dissolved because the fucking Russian Red Army ordered them
Speaker 1: to integrate into the regular Red Army. Oh no, and
Speaker 1: the Koreans who joined the USSR were later betrayed during
Speaker 1: the forced ethnic cleansing of Manchuria in nineteen thirty seven,
Speaker 1: when one hundred and seventy two thousand people were deported
Speaker 1: to Kazakistan, which.
Speaker 2: Is, oh, they're those people.
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, it's not close. These are not nearby.
Speaker 2: No. I guess we should also mention geographically, like in
Speaker 2: terms of just what kind of like Vladivlastok is like
Speaker 2: technically it's not technically EVENTUREI yet depending in terms of
Speaker 2: where you're how you're doing the borders.
Speaker 1: There's like two maps if you look it up on Wikipedia.
Speaker 2: Yah. Yeah, yeah, Like Latavastok is like right there, right,
Speaker 2: So it's it's just like like in terms of like
Speaker 2: you know, we talked about Korea being sort of like
Speaker 2: the shatter zone, like Manchuria is an even bigger one
Speaker 2: because it's literally like it is bordered directly by China, Mongolia, Russia,
Speaker 2: and then Japan is very very close by sea, and
Speaker 2: then you know also like borders of Korea, etcter, et cetera.
Speaker 2: So like there's all of these sort of imperial influences
Speaker 2: are like literally right there. And like if the red
Speaker 2: arby in flat of Astok is like, hey, we're gonna
Speaker 2: do ethnic cleansings, deport you to whatever place that's some
Speaker 2: like Stalinist or whatever decides to send you to, it's
Speaker 2: exact Dania.
Speaker 1: They they have the ability to do that, which is
Speaker 1: completely on the other side of the country, and Russia
Speaker 1: is a very big country.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also I want to mention the Stalinist line on
Speaker 2: that was that they were scared that those people were
Speaker 2: Japanese spies, which is i know, the most like out
Speaker 2: of all of the Stalinist lions I've ever seen about anything.
Speaker 2: That is the single most unhinged one, Like yeah, that,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like their excuse for doing it is
Speaker 2: we are racist. That's what they're that's their excuse, their excuses.
Speaker 2: We don't trust Koreans because they might be friends with
Speaker 2: the Japanese. The fuck is wrong with you? Just me
Speaker 2: and they're the same, Like you think they look the same,
Speaker 2: that's what you're saying. Yeah, it's like you literally, these
Speaker 2: are a bunch of anti Japanese gorillas that you forcibly integrated,
Speaker 2: and then the anti Japanese guerrilla is that you integrated
Speaker 2: into your army. You are now sending a you are
Speaker 2: now ethnically cleansing across the country because you think they're Japanese.
Speaker 2: By was like, what is going? Oh god, So this
Speaker 2: just makes me very angry because this is one of
Speaker 2: the things there's a lot of kind of like weird
Speaker 2: denialism about I'm sure on the left, and it's infuriating
Speaker 2: to me. Yeah, no, I'm certain. I Like I read
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand of the Koreans from Entrereo removed, and
Speaker 2: then I also read that the whole thing was one
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy two thousand, and so I don't know
Speaker 2: whether that's like other people were also being moved.
Speaker 1: I don't know enough about that. And also some of
Speaker 1: the numbers that are wildly disparate, but none of them
Speaker 1: are small numbers. Is that between sixteen and fifty thousand
Speaker 1: of those people died. Yeah, so between a tenth and half,
Speaker 1: depending on how you calculate it all.
Speaker 2: Because it turns out that being an ethnic cleansing, even
Speaker 2: if they're technically not literally shooting you all, still kills
Speaker 2: enormous numbers of people. Yeah, deeply evil stuff.
Speaker 1: It also goes to show the primary lesson of history
Speaker 1: of the twentieth century is when you make friends with tankies,
Speaker 1: they kill you, even if you're a tanky. Maybe especially
Speaker 1: if you're a tanky. Yeah, but that's not what we're
Speaker 1: talking about. I just love a little side quest to
Speaker 1: point out that you shouldn't trust the fucking USSR. Yep,
Speaker 1: those earlier armies are gone. There's this new army, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's a lot of the same people. Actually,
Speaker 1: I learned some from Joshua that one of the reasons
Speaker 1: that a lot of these uh coming out of the
Speaker 1: Righteous Armies. A lot of these armies were people who
Speaker 1: had been part of like the Korean government and even
Speaker 1: like putting down the dong Hak rebellion in eighteen ninety four,
Speaker 1: and even some of them have been like kind of
Speaker 1: fighting for the Japanese. And we're like, no, never mind,
Speaker 1: and if I get anything wrong, it's not Joshua's fault
Speaker 1: to my own inferences. I want to be clear about that.
Speaker 1: But you have all of these like cops and soldiers,
Speaker 1: shit and shit showing up at like anarchist schools to
Speaker 1: be like, all right, here's how you organize the military
Speaker 1: to kill the japan Ris. History is very weird, yes,
Speaker 1: and ideological borders are like real borders, they're fake, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean there's also different places are different whatever. Anyway,
Speaker 1: the general of this army was a guy named Kim
Speaker 1: Joe jin, and he was pretty rat He's not an
Speaker 1: anarchist yet at the start of all this, and there's
Speaker 1: some stuff that I wonder about. He is talked up
Speaker 1: as like he's one of the big national heroes of
Speaker 1: all this, right because he's a general who like, well,
Speaker 1: i'll talk about what he did in the second If
Speaker 1: you read articles about him as soon as he turned eighteen,
Speaker 1: which is around like nineteen in the middle of the night,
Speaker 1: like nineteen oh five, nineteen oh six. I forgot to
Speaker 1: write down what year he was born. But when he
Speaker 1: turned eighteen, he's from this rich family. He freed all
Speaker 1: fifty families of slaves his family owned and gave them
Speaker 1: land and shit and burned the slave registry and this
Speaker 1: gets called the first act of a man's patient of
Speaker 1: modern Korea. The confusing thing about that, you're shaking your
Speaker 1: head a little, right, I could see you think. And
Speaker 1: didn't we just say in the last episode that slavery
Speaker 1: was outlawed in eighteen ninety four in Korea?
Speaker 2: Yes, we did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so huh myth making. Yeah, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: he still might have done it. He's still might his
Speaker 1: family probably still enslave people after it was illegal for
Speaker 1: them to do it, you know, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, see, for example, the entire history of the United States.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly why we celebrate Juneteenth instead of just the
Speaker 1: fucking yeah. Well and also, yeah, though, what fourteenth the
Speaker 1: fuck the amendment that means that slavery is still legal
Speaker 1: if you're in prison anyway, Kim jo Jin was cool,
Speaker 1: whether or not he's mythologized in this way or that right,
Speaker 1: or at least what I know about him is fucking cool.
Speaker 1: He served about three years in prison in Korea for
Speaker 1: rebellion and shit, and then he moved to Venturia and
Speaker 1: started taking up arms there, and this is like kind
Speaker 1: of he's pretty early on the scene there, and he's
Speaker 1: a really good general, and he kept killing all the
Speaker 1: Japanese soldiers who were sent after him and shit, including
Speaker 1: the first military victory by the Koreans against the Japanese
Speaker 1: of the entire colonial period.
Speaker 2: That rules. We simply love to see it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And as far as I can tell, these
Speaker 1: autonomous prefectures get set up in nineteen twenty five, and
Speaker 1: they're already pretty dang cool. I can see why non
Speaker 1: political historians refer to them as being under rule by
Speaker 1: war lords because they are created and supported by the military, wait.
Speaker 2: Which by theirs? Whose military? Yes?
Speaker 1: These gorilla groups, right, these like yeah, okay, these the
Speaker 1: descendants of the Righteous Armies are like, okay, we are
Speaker 1: defending this territory. So it is a militarily set up
Speaker 1: political structure, which is sort of warlordism, right. But the
Speaker 1: anarchists in the area, and there are a lot of
Speaker 1: them supported the militarily constructed societies. And Kim Joe Jin
Speaker 1: had a relative named Kim Jongjin, and he's one of
Speaker 1: the major figures of the Korean Anarchist Federation. I can't
Speaker 1: figure how they related. Everything's like a close relative. I've
Speaker 1: seen it called like in three different sources. And this
Speaker 1: is that federation that formed in northern Korea, right and
Speaker 1: had to be like super underground, and they kept trying
Speaker 1: to have conventions, and so I love that, like cause
Speaker 1: you kind of have this like wacky when you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna call ourselves the anarchists and try and have
Speaker 1: conventions and everyone's gonna get deported. Like no, they're like
Speaker 1: doing shit. There's armies involved, you know, like yeah, And
Speaker 1: so as these autonomous prefectures are getting set up, they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty good at like killing Japanese soldiers, you know what.
Speaker 1: I don't have any experience in constructing a society from scratch.
Speaker 1: Ah yeah, hello, my close relative who talks about this
Speaker 1: shit constantly, Like can't get you to shut up at
Speaker 1: family dinner. You got any ideas? And the anarchists are like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we have some fucking ideas, the rules, So this is
Speaker 1: how you have a like constructed from the top down,
Speaker 1: bottom up society. And the generals are like, all right,
Speaker 1: let's do it. Let's make an anarchist society. Let's fucking go,
Speaker 1: and they they did it. It seems to be the
Speaker 1: case from nineteen twenty five, but it's usually credited as
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty nine, which is when the Shinman District was
Speaker 1: renamed the Korean People's Association of Manchuria. It called itself
Speaker 1: quote an independent, self governing cooperative system of the Korean
Speaker 1: people who assembled their full power to save our nation
Speaker 1: by struggling against Japan. And if that isn't the most
Speaker 1: anarchist nationalist statement ever made, because they're not calling themselves
Speaker 1: a government. They're like, we are a self governing cooperative
Speaker 1: you know, like King I didn't, I don't whatever. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to do the mud farmer thing for Monty Python,
Speaker 1: but I can't do it off the top of my head. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, I'm kind of less sympathetic to the non political
Speaker 2: historians who are just calling the warlords because like the
Speaker 2: warlords have sort of two organizational modes there's one that's
Speaker 2: just almost pure banded army, and then the second one
Speaker 2: is that they're just straight up being the state, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, like there is like a Republic of China
Speaker 2: and in training the worlord period, and who has control
Speaker 2: over it depends on sort of like who you know,
Speaker 2: like but like like there's like people going through positions,
Speaker 2: people are getting appointed to stuff, so like they tend
Speaker 2: to be like parasitic on the existing state. And this
Speaker 2: is very very.
Speaker 1: Different from that even from the beginning totally. But you know,
Speaker 1: it isn't different from our current economic system.
Speaker 2: Is it the products of services?
Speaker 1: Well, interrupting a podcast about non capitalist societies with advertisements
Speaker 1: is an example of something that I don't know how
Speaker 1: to finish my sentence, but.
Speaker 2: Here's ads and we're back, okay.
Speaker 1: So, and you have this sea of complications happening where
Speaker 1: an anarchist structure was designed and implemented from the top down,
Speaker 1: and basically representatives from the anarchist non government though like
Speaker 1: cooperative structure or whatever, would go around and teach people
Speaker 1: how to set up horizontal structures in their villages, and
Speaker 1: it seems like people were into it. I don't think
Speaker 1: this was at gunpoint. Nothing I have read argues in
Speaker 1: that direction, and also nothing I have read argues that
Speaker 1: they were like extracting from these communities much in fact,
Speaker 1: specifically they were building infrastructure within these communities. How it
Speaker 1: worked is it used a federated system, seemingly similar to
Speaker 1: how like democratic and federalist systems like the one in Roshava.
Speaker 1: Work power is invested in village councils, who then sent
Speaker 1: delegates up to regional assemblies. The sort of bureaucrats working
Speaker 1: at the highest level were paid the same as everyone else,
Speaker 1: and they had executive departments working on agriculture, education, propaganda, finance, military, social, health, youth,
Speaker 1: and there's one for general affairs. They did voluntary collective,
Speaker 1: which is what the Spanish anarchists did not six years
Speaker 1: later in Catalonia, where you know, they were like, let's
Speaker 1: set up collective farms if you want. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't think that they actually like destroyed like the market economy.
Speaker 1: I don't get the impression that that happened. And I'll
Speaker 1: give you my reason why I think that. In a minute.
Speaker 1: They set up free education for everyone up to the
Speaker 1: age of eighteen. Ongoing adult education was available to anyone
Speaker 1: who wanted it, and there was arms training for all
Speaker 1: responsible adults, which makes sense.
Speaker 2: They're in a war. Yeah, it's really a war that
Speaker 2: is going to last from what like nineteen eleven to
Speaker 2: nineteen forty nine. No, that's not even true because like,
Speaker 2: well it's still technically going on. Yeah, yeah, it's just Yeah.
Speaker 2: There were mutual aid banks, is how I saw them described,
Speaker 2: and which I'm guessing these are sort of like the
Speaker 2: people's banks advocated for by Prudon and many other anarchists,
Speaker 2: which is basically a way for people to get capital
Speaker 2: to build cooperatives without creating a society built on the
Speaker 2: exploitation of capital. It's uncertain how many of their plans
Speaker 2: were implemented or just planned or in progress. And by
Speaker 2: that I mean of the like four or five sources,
Speaker 2: one says, hey, I don't actually know how much they
Speaker 2: actually pulled off, and then everyone else is like, they
Speaker 2: did all this stuff, you know. Yeah, this is also
Speaker 2: one of the records, one of the most of all
Speaker 2: time records are fragmentary of all uh huh. It's like
Speaker 2: the worst possible place on earth you're trying to get
Speaker 2: records out of. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, to quote that book Anarchism in Korea, There quote
Speaker 1: plans for agricultural development, education, and military training within its jurisdiction,
Speaker 1: as well as for its representative system along with its
Speaker 1: administrative body, have all been praised as a reflection of
Speaker 1: the anarchist idea of a government without compulsory government that
Speaker 1: assured the principles of no rule, no naked power, and
Speaker 1: no exploitation. It is unclear, though, whether they had a
Speaker 1: substantial chance to implement these or related principles, programs or
Speaker 1: policies during the short span of its existence, or just
Speaker 1: to only had them planned on paper. That's the only
Speaker 1: source that actually questions how much of it they got done.
Speaker 1: But I think it's worth highlighting just because there's so
Speaker 1: much myth making happening everywhere.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, yeah and so, and anarchists are not
Speaker 2: immune to that, right.
Speaker 1: Totally totally, because I could just be trying to add
Speaker 1: to the like, here's the pantheon of perfect societies that
Speaker 1: absolutely would have worked if it wasn't for the Dang
Speaker 1: Kamis and the Dang imperialists. Yeah, you know which is well,
Speaker 1: we'll get to it. It's like not that far from true,
Speaker 1: but like, who knows, who fucking knows. You know, they
Speaker 1: started off doing that thing that is doomed Horizontalist project.
Speaker 1: After horizontalist project, they decided that the Japanese Empire was
Speaker 1: the greater enemy, and so they didn't stop Bolsheviks from
Speaker 1: organizing in their areas. Younger anarchists, either more worldly or
Speaker 1: more hot headed, were like, no, we've seen the USSR
Speaker 1: and we can't let that happen here. But Kim chuijin
Speaker 1: that general was like, I don't know, I say we
Speaker 1: deal with Japan first, And I don't know whether that
Speaker 1: was like his call or not.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Spoiler alert.
Speaker 1: The most common belief of historians is that it was
Speaker 1: a communist who assassinated Kim Joi Jen soon after he said.
Speaker 2: This, Yeah, you know, it's it's funny we talked about
Speaker 2: this happening in Vietnam on this show, where in Vietnam
Speaker 2: is like the rare example with the Communists in Vietnam
Speaker 2: genuinely want to do this. But the problem is that, like,
Speaker 2: and this is the problem for all of these deserted
Speaker 2: bution of communis stuments, is that like they're not actually
Speaker 2: in control of their run movements, like they can have
Speaker 2: totally orders can come down from Russia from the common
Speaker 2: turn And this is totally I've talked about this with
Speaker 2: like in other podcasts, but like this is what like
Speaker 2: orders coming down from Russia to work with Like the
Speaker 2: nationalists gets a million Chinese workers killed, yeah, I in
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty seven, like in this period, like actually the
Speaker 2: communists finally pull off a revolution in Shanghai in twenty seven,
Speaker 2: and then they get ordered by Moscow to like let
Speaker 2: the nationalists the nationals kill everyone. Yeah, and this you
Speaker 2: know the result of blood bath of this kills a
Speaker 2: million people. And like this this issue, right, this issue
Speaker 2: of sort of these groups a like almost purely being
Speaker 2: in this for their own influence and be their willingness
Speaker 2: to just like accept orders from Moscow and murder everyone
Speaker 2: is just such a fiasco for just everyone in basically everywhere,
Speaker 2: but like particularly in East Asia. It's just complete fiasco.
Speaker 2: That makes sense to me.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's like one of the things
Speaker 1: that it's like, well, look, I can trust this person's intentions,
Speaker 1: but if they're part of an authoritarian structure, it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter how much I trust their intentions. It matters how
Speaker 1: much I trust the intentions of the person on top. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's sad, and like Vietnam is a
Speaker 1: perfect example of that, where like, overall, I think the
Speaker 1: Vietnamese Communists are you know, we're trying to do right.
Speaker 1: And yeah, we did a whole episode about a Trotskyist
Speaker 1: who had to flee from I think from the styles.
Speaker 1: Oh god, it's been a while since I did that
Speaker 1: fucking up episode anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those stylists. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So in the middle of this war on multiple fronts,
Speaker 1: they worked on developing the kind of infrastructure that would
Speaker 1: enrich small villages and give them more economic autonomy. For example,
Speaker 1: they wanted to build a rice mill in this one
Speaker 1: village so that rice could be milled locally instead of
Speaker 1: being sold to middle men merchants, and like basically like
Speaker 1: how to reverse economic extraction from these areas. And this
Speaker 1: is the why I like that they worked to avoid
Speaker 1: and counteract economic extraction.
Speaker 2: Is part of my life.
Speaker 1: They're not warlords.
Speaker 2: Also, I have an entire episode about the middle bitch
Speaker 2: structure in East Asian agriculture. That's about the company that
Speaker 2: poisoned one hundred thousand babies whoa really Yeah, just specifically
Speaker 2: in the milk industry later on, Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but that's very specifically that middle men structure is so
Speaker 2: noxious and yeah, yeah, so it's glad to see the
Speaker 2: like trying to knock out these things. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, Kim Juijin went in person to help build one
Speaker 1: of these rice mills, and I get no impression that
Speaker 1: this is like a photo op. I think he was
Speaker 1: just like, this is what we're doing, is we're building
Speaker 1: a society, and I'm going to go build it by
Speaker 1: putting bricks on top of each other. Hell yeah, we
Speaker 1: know about this particular rice mill and his work on
Speaker 1: it because at the age of forty, while working on
Speaker 1: a rice mill to cut out the middlemen, Kim Juijin
Speaker 1: was assassinated on January twentieth, nineteen thirty. No, at first,
Speaker 1: most historians say this assassin was sent by Japan. Most
Speaker 1: modern historians agree that it was a communist. Oh, this
Speaker 1: did not stop the Korean People's Association. One advantage of
Speaker 1: even a sort of accidentally top down anarcha's structure is
Speaker 1: that's still an anarcha structure. They kept going and it
Speaker 1: continued to grow throughout most of nineteen thirty. It expanded
Speaker 1: into nearby regions and eventually encompassed about two million people.
Speaker 1: The Korean anarchists in China in particular basically decided that
Speaker 1: they were like, all right, this is our thing, this
Speaker 1: is what we're supporting, and so you have this like
Speaker 1: all the like, yeah, not all of but you know,
Speaker 1: a ton of the Korean anarchists in China are like,
Speaker 1: there's all these women smuggling guns up to the area,
Speaker 1: and folks all start moving up there.
Speaker 2: That rules.
Speaker 1: But eventually anarchist Manchuria felt the way that more or
Speaker 1: less every anarchist project has fallen. The Bolsheviks and the
Speaker 1: right wing informally teamed up to fight it at the
Speaker 1: same time. Anarchists Ukraine, of course fell because while the
Speaker 1: anarchists were busy fighting against reactionaries, the Red Army came
Speaker 1: and destroyed it. Anarchist Spain fell, and this one's messier,
Speaker 1: but it fell because while anarchists were busy fighting Franco,
Speaker 1: the Stalins waged a dirty war against them, and the
Speaker 1: cohesion fell apart. And I'm only saying that one's messier
Speaker 1: because it's completely possible that if the anarchists and the
Speaker 1: communists had stuck together, they still would have lost to Franco.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because well, I mean that's one way they were fighting.
Speaker 2: They're fighting Franco, they were fighting the Italian Army and
Speaker 2: they were also fighting the Germans at the same time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which yeah, yeah. And Anarchist Shinman fell because the
Speaker 1: Japanese attacked it from the south while the Stalinists attacked
Speaker 1: it from the north. To quote historian Alan mcsimeon from
Speaker 1: his speech to the Worker Solidarity Movement in Dublin in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, quote, in early nineteen thirty one, the
Speaker 1: Stalinists sent assassination and kidnapping teams into the anarchist zone
Speaker 1: to murder leading activists. By the summer of nineteen thirty one,
Speaker 1: many leading anarchists were dead, and the war on two
Speaker 1: fronts was devastating the region. It was decided to go underground.
Speaker 1: Anarchist Shinman was no more. And just because I think
Speaker 1: this person seems kind of cool, I want to point
Speaker 1: out that another of the many people who was assassinated
Speaker 1: was a man named Sim Yong Hay, who was a
Speaker 1: Korean fluent in Chinese and Esperanto. Was murdered by the
Speaker 1: Japanese in Manchuria in nineteen thirty and he'd been an
Speaker 1: editor at National Customs Daily and he had lived in
Speaker 1: the office.
Speaker 2: I just I like this, like news.
Speaker 1: This is a cool guy, right, yeah, yeah, he worked
Speaker 1: at a newspaper called National Customs Daily that was an
Speaker 1: anarchist newspaper and he lived in the office. What. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amazing, I know, I know. And the other people
Speaker 1: helping I mean and when you're like, oh, that sounds nationalist, well,
Speaker 1: the other people who were working on it with him
Speaker 1: was a Chinese anarchist and two Japanese anarchists.
Speaker 2: Incredible stuff. And the group of.
Speaker 1: Them when this paper spoke about how quote all under
Speaker 1: Heaven comprises one family and the whole world is full
Speaker 1: of whole brothers.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's funny. Like the reputation of anarchists is that
Speaker 2: we're the ones who do assassinations, and then you actually
Speaker 2: look at the history and every single other faction is
Speaker 2: doing even more assassinations. Yeah, and it just like doesn't
Speaker 2: stick at.
Speaker 1: All, And you're like, oh, anarchists are the mad bombers
Speaker 1: of Like have you met countries?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Like like the day before we recorded this, fucking Israel
Speaker 1: just exploded pagers and radios to oh did it again
Speaker 1: today too? Yeah, yeah, yeah, who knows what it'll be
Speaker 1: by the time and that this comes out. But what
Speaker 1: won't explode in your pocket is anything you buy from
Speaker 1: our sponsors unless they're made in Israel.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Uh, it's Christ, here's ads and we're back.
Speaker 1: I'm under the impression that the pages are exploded weren't
Speaker 1: made in Israel, even though they were obviously you know,
Speaker 1: it's obviously orchestrated by.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a whole there's a whole debate right now,
Speaker 2: but who made them? Probably you in the future will
Speaker 2: know more about this than we do right now on
Speaker 2: day two. Absolutely, so enjoy your knowledge and your FEELINGO
Speaker 2: spoke superiority. It'll it'll get you through something. Hopefully the
Speaker 2: work day.
Speaker 1: A week from now, everyone will have like opened every
Speaker 1: piece of electronics they own with like a little thing
Speaker 1: to like see whether or not there's fucking explosives and
Speaker 1: planted into it.
Speaker 2: Anyway.
Speaker 1: After the Anarchist project went underground and the they weren't
Speaker 1: able to hold the space, the Koreans fought a long retreat,
Speaker 1: but Japan invaded and con Manuari in nineteen thirty one,
Speaker 1: creating the region known as Menchukuo. China appealed to the
Speaker 1: League of Nations who asked Japan to leave. Japan was like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't want it. Though, yep, the US refused to
Speaker 1: recognize Japan's presence there as legitimate, and that kicked off
Speaker 1: a naval arms race. And this seems like not not
Speaker 1: a factor in the US's trade embargo on Japan and
Speaker 1: Japan's bombing of Pearl Harbor, in the US declaring war
Speaker 1: on Japan, and World War two. This is not the domino,
Speaker 1: I don't think. But no, yeah, I mean like it
Speaker 1: was a kind of I know, I guess we don't
Speaker 1: need to fully go to the causes of World War two.
Speaker 2: Year it did have some role. Yeah.
Speaker 1: After the fall of anarchist Shinman, the remaining anarchists largely
Speaker 1: went underground. Some fought in World War Two. Most anarchists
Speaker 1: were so deep underground that while their actions were seen,
Speaker 1: there was no real trace of who they were, how
Speaker 1: they organized, or what they believed. There was another big
Speaker 1: push for a common front against Japan during the Second
Speaker 1: Sino Japanese War, which was from nineteen thirty seven to
Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, and anarchists seemed overall to sort of
Speaker 1: deradicalize in order to fight what they saw as their
Speaker 1: common enemy, anarchism. Probably as a result of this de
Speaker 1: radicalization or just whatever, it declined overall through that the
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, Korean anarchists stayed active elsewhere in China, in
Speaker 1: Minchuria and Korea. And I know, I keep separating China
Speaker 1: in Minuria and it's not actually true, but we're complicating things.
Speaker 2: Well, it technically isn't this period in the sense that like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's true because it's occupied by Japan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were involved in the war. They were bombing
Speaker 1: endeming positions and such like the Shanghai Black Terrorist Group,
Speaker 1: which in nineteen thirty three was a group of Korean
Speaker 1: anarchists in China that attempted to assassinate the Japanese consular
Speaker 1: and did a bunch of other shit, or the League
Speaker 1: of Korean Youth in South China, which was organized in
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty Shanghai. They killed Japanese high officials and military
Speaker 1: commanders in Korean Traders, and this was the sort of
Speaker 1: central group of Korean anarchists in China, many of whom
Speaker 1: had lived in Japan. And like, this is the kind
Speaker 1: of thing where I like, hope one day I'm going
Speaker 1: to find a fucking book or two about and just
Speaker 1: just talk about the League of Korean Youth in South China. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's platform because of course they had a
Speaker 1: platform too, right. They were like, even though they're underground,
Speaker 1: they're all wild shit. They were, Oh, there must have
Speaker 1: been pure anarchists. Their platform was included denying and rejecting
Speaker 1: political and syndicalist movements, as well as the family system
Speaker 1: and religion. They were into spontaneous alliances to build society
Speaker 1: that provided from each according to ability, to each according
Speaker 1: to need, and they developed theories about how to turn
Speaker 1: cities into organic, complex structures that looked like farming villages,
Speaker 1: but more complex and larger.
Speaker 2: That's cool, I know.
Speaker 1: I hope they don't all die at the end of
Speaker 1: this christ work. I don't fucking no, they're all underground
Speaker 1: if it's not. Yeah, yeah, living in China and being
Speaker 1: involved in the fight against Japan is not a good
Speaker 1: way to live a long life. But it's a oh yeah,
Speaker 1: the way to die nice, you know, a way to
Speaker 1: die proud. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like there were very few things in
Speaker 2: world history that you could die fighting against where you
Speaker 2: died like better than that, Yeah, Like it's totally.
Speaker 1: And so then in Japan there's still Korean anarchists. They
Speaker 1: are in the belly of the beast, and they ran
Speaker 1: Black Newspaper, which was a propaganda war in Japan by
Speaker 1: Korean anarchists and it went hard. At the time, Japanese
Speaker 1: anarchists were doing this thing called the Society of Youth
Speaker 1: and Farming Villages movement, and the slogan was let's appeal
Speaker 1: to the peasantry, which is like a thing that just
Speaker 1: keeps recycling as of Yeah, a theme like every sixty years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're due for another one soon. Like you're gonna
Speaker 2: see all these American kids being like it's time to
Speaker 2: go to the farming villages or whatever.
Speaker 1: I thought I was worriing my camo hat or recording,
Speaker 1: but I'm wearing a different hat.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But then after the invasion of China they moved into
Speaker 1: the combat period. Black Newspaper put out its first issue
Speaker 1: in the summer of nineteen thirty and it lasted about
Speaker 1: five years. It was funded by anarchist organizations and by
Speaker 1: Korean labor unions. It was published by the Tokyo Labor
Speaker 1: Alliance at first and later by the Federation of Black
Speaker 1: Friends and Free Youth. It was regularly banned and confiscated.
Speaker 1: Its editors went in and out of prison, and it
Speaker 1: was sent out and sealed envelopes to readers in Japan, China,
Speaker 1: and Korea.
Speaker 2: Are their rules?
Speaker 1: I know, I know, Like this ain't a safe thing
Speaker 1: they're doing, you know, like yeah, yeah, the slogan was
Speaker 1: rush with revolutionary actions at the irrational contemporary society.
Speaker 2: Oh, we love to see it. That's that's such a
Speaker 2: good one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so yeah, the imperial country had anarchists sending
Speaker 1: out information to its wartime enimy being like hell yeah,
Speaker 1: fight us win, fuck us a lot like Russian anarchists. Honestly,
Speaker 1: that's the main Well, we'll talk about more in a second.
Speaker 1: And this newspaper it also covered news from around the world.
Speaker 1: It kept people up with revolutionaries and also reactionaries, so
Speaker 1: like people were like learning Hitler and Stalin and shit
Speaker 1: while this is happening. They also actively worked to communicate
Speaker 1: worldwide and break down East versus West. And it was
Speaker 1: also run in partnership, probably run in partnership with Japanese
Speaker 1: language anarchist papers available at that time. Eventually, basically, as
Speaker 1: like the cycles of oppression against it kept happening, many
Speaker 1: or perhaps most of its editors had to move to
Speaker 1: China to avoid persecution. Imagine being like, I got to
Speaker 1: go to the country we're invading.
Speaker 2: It's safer there. Yeah, jus christ, Oh, I mean I
Speaker 2: hope they got to like, like, I hope they got
Speaker 2: the Western China because yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, honestly, I think most of them went and
Speaker 1: joined the like Black Friends, Murder Club or whatever. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean many, many such cases.
Speaker 1: Korea won its independence when the Japanese Empire fell. Some
Speaker 1: assholes are a random line across the middle. The US
Speaker 1: imperialized the South, the US the North, and they've been
Speaker 1: in a cold war ever since. Both sides claimed the anarchists.
Speaker 1: Both sides persecuted the anarchists. In nineteen forty five, the
Speaker 1: anarchists in Korea de radicalized fully because they are easy
Speaker 1: targets from the anti democratic governments. They launched an anarchist
Speaker 1: political party. I think in South Korea this did not work.
Speaker 1: This is also in part due to the rise of
Speaker 1: the National Front that had tried to unite everyone from
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties onward, and they figured they could fight
Speaker 1: for a society without government along the way, but for
Speaker 1: now they need to fight against a common enemy. And yeah,
Speaker 1: the closest parallel I can see is that there's anarchist
Speaker 1: Ukrainian involvement in the Ukrainian War, like and they're part
Speaker 1: of the traditional Ukrainian military alongside everyone else, because they're like,
Speaker 1: we can deal with that when that man is not
Speaker 1: murdering my family, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean it's like, especially in these conditions,
Speaker 2: it's like like you are fighting you were fighting Japan,
Speaker 2: You're you're finding go cheap who were going to kill
Speaker 2: thirty billion people? Like it's you know, totally, things are
Speaker 2: going extremely badly for everyone here. And it's yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like are people making the best decisions? Maybe not?
Speaker 2: But also like the scale of the slaughter is just
Speaker 2: sort of incomprehensible, no, totally.
Speaker 1: It's like we did an episode about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, right,
Speaker 1: and for most of that conflict there was three different factions.
Speaker 1: There's the anti Zionist Left, there was the Zionist Left,
Speaker 1: and there was the essentially fascists who were happened to
Speaker 1: be Jewish, and those three sides did not like each other.
Speaker 1: And then when there's like we're just all dying, we
Speaker 1: are just being exterminated. At that point, they coordinated their
Speaker 1: actions together. Still to the very I think it's been
Speaker 1: a while since the episodes. I think to the bitter end,
Speaker 1: the anti Zionist left was like, we're not fighting alongside fascists,
Speaker 1: but we will coordinate with them. We will coordinate our
Speaker 1: attacks together because we need to not die.
Speaker 2: We need to you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, things can always be worse, you know, yep, And
Speaker 1: so yeah. After nineteen forty five, during deradicalization, they were
Speaker 1: more about autonomous government and autonomous people, and they moved
Speaker 1: away from more specifically anarchistic ideas. Overall, this is the
Speaker 1: way it's presented when it's a vey. I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: people who stayed anarchist or whatever, and they were about
Speaker 1: building social movements to show how important rural life was
Speaker 1: alongside industrial development in cities, especially in the sixties and seventies,
Speaker 1: and they worked hard to distinguish themselves from the communists.
Speaker 1: Anarchism started to rise again in Korea in nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: after the collapse of the USSR, and I've read about
Speaker 1: how people are working to disentangle it from nationalism while
Speaker 1: still being proud of the enormous legacy of anarchist freedom
Speaker 1: fighters involved in a national liberation struggle. I heard from
Speaker 1: that listener Joshua King about the complicated mythologization of Korean anarchists. Basically,
Speaker 1: the role of the provisional government can't be downplayed, right,
Speaker 1: and that was full of anarchists, and this has been acknowledged.
Speaker 1: The previous president of South Korea, Moon jay jin, gave
Speaker 1: a speech in twenty nineteen that explicitly shouted out anarchist
Speaker 1: involvement in the struggle, which the right wing.
Speaker 2: Was not excited about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, imagine just like the president of your country being like, look,
Speaker 1: we gotta admit the anarchist did something.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, I mean this is like a whole
Speaker 2: other story. But like he's like Mija In's like from
Speaker 2: a like I mean, he doesn't like an incredible president,
Speaker 2: but he's like he's from a sort of like student movement,
Speaker 2: democracy movement, like organize your background and you know those
Speaker 2: people like you know, you could say what you want
Speaker 2: about them politically, but all like a lot of those
Speaker 2: people got machine gunned by by the Korean army, so
Speaker 2: like they have more of a like.
Speaker 1: They got some cred.
Speaker 2: It's like a little bit more like I respect him
Speaker 2: a little little tidy bit bore that I would like
Speaker 2: his equivalent in a country where like his people didn't
Speaker 2: get like absolutely bowed down with the backing of Jimmy Carter.
Speaker 1: So whow the first jim Carter slander on cool Zone media. Oh,
Speaker 1: one day I'm going to write the Jimmy Carter episode
Speaker 1: I Hate You Jimmy. Jimmy Carter was the first American neoliberal.
Speaker 2: People don't remember this because Reagan came afterwards and we
Speaker 2: got Reagan neoliberalism instead of like the Socialist Party of
Speaker 2: Italy and neoliberalism, which was what we were sort of
Speaker 2: like angling towards. But he has that man has a
Speaker 2: body count and it's no I believe it's largely in Korea. Yeah, No,
Speaker 2: I like I always sort of knew. I was, like,
Speaker 2: I assume there's some like you don't be president of
Speaker 2: the United States without skeletons, like not even in your closet,
Speaker 2: but like dancing around in the street. Yeah, So for
Speaker 2: people who don't know what I'm talking about. There was
Speaker 2: there was a giant so I mean, it's called pro
Speaker 2: democracy uprising, but it was like more leftist than that
Speaker 2: uprising in Korea, which is under that time like ruled
Speaker 2: by actually was it. I'm forgetting which configuration of dictatorship
Speaker 2: this was, but Jimmy Carter basically green lighted that, like
Speaker 2: it's called like the Guansha Uprising. They basically formed like
Speaker 2: a commune for a bit, and then Jimmy Carter green
Speaker 2: lights the Korean army just killing the ball and cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, also cool that the United States can green light
Speaker 1: another I mean this is not surprising to any listener
Speaker 1: of this show, but like, yeah, this is the thing
Speaker 1: we're pointing out, like, yeah, that's not our country. It
Speaker 1: turns out that's that's Korea. It's a different place. I
Speaker 1: know all countries are fake, but uh, that's over there.
Speaker 1: But what also is over there is the script because
Speaker 1: it's now behind us because we finished it. Because we
Speaker 1: talked about the Korean People's Association of Menuria and Korean anarchism.
Speaker 2: Oh I promised us getting revenge on Japan by aheorg
Speaker 2: hw Bush throwing up for the Japanese prime mitistry. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: let's do it now. I need to explain that, okay.
Speaker 2: So the arc of this is that one of the
Speaker 2: things that you know, the when the Japanese like Congress
Speaker 2: Venturia and destroys the anarchist movement, kills all of these people, like,
Speaker 2: that's one of the things that crystallizes I guess one
Speaker 2: of the Japanese fascist movements, but just the one that's
Speaker 2: going to take power. I did a bunch of episodes
Speaker 2: on u Ki Kishi, who was the prim to serve Japan.
Speaker 2: He's the guy who founded the Liberal Democratic Party, which
Speaker 2: is basically like effectively has ruled Japan as a one
Speaker 2: party state for basically since it was founded in the
Speaker 2: fifties until.
Speaker 1: Like now, I love how words just don't mean anything
Speaker 1: as soon as you get into politics.
Speaker 2: Uh huh, yeah, it's why. I mean, there's literally a
Speaker 2: line where k she walks out of prison and he said,
Speaker 2: he's kidding, he's about to run for office, and he goes,
Speaker 2: I guess we're all Democrats now. But so like they
Speaker 2: get installed by literally the CIA, and CIA has individual
Speaker 2: guys who are like running the election campaigns of individual
Speaker 2: LDP candidates to make sure they win their election and
Speaker 2: keep left out of power. Yeah, and so they do this.
Speaker 2: It works, and the LDP holds onto power. But it
Speaker 2: means that Japan is sort of like Semi's basically permanently
Speaker 2: subordinated to sort of American imperial control. And the lasting
Speaker 2: consequence of this is that when George H. W. Bush
Speaker 2: vomits on the Japanese Prime minister at a dinner, there's
Speaker 2: nothing they could really do about it, because this is
Speaker 2: a party that was put in charge by the institution
Speaker 2: that George H. W. Bush ran, the CIA. So and
Speaker 2: now you know, there's a lot of there's a lot
Speaker 2: made of the fact that the US sense as an
Speaker 2: ambassador to Japan Raba Manuel. But like I don't know,
Speaker 2: if you guys didn't what rab A manual is your ambassador,
Speaker 2: you should have taken all that CIA money in the
Speaker 2: fifties and sixties. So you know, this, this is our
Speaker 2: this is our Our small amount of revenge is that
Speaker 2: the head of the fascist party getting vomited on but
Speaker 2: George W. Bush and not being able to do anything
Speaker 2: about it. There's video of this, by the way, you
Speaker 2: can find you can find the video. I'm into it.
Speaker 1: I'm so into it.
Speaker 2: Well that's it. Uh, did you got plugs?
Speaker 1: We want we want to talk about it.
Speaker 2: You're on a podcast, Yeah, I have have the podcast
Speaker 2: that could happen here we do it. It comes out
Speaker 2: five Oh my god. Six No wait, I guess technically
Speaker 2: because the episode that's all of the episodes for the
Speaker 2: week comes out on Saturday. It's every day. It's a
Speaker 2: true daily, yes, so it is now literally every day
Speaker 2: there is an episode, including including you can find Margaret
Speaker 2: on there too. It's true. It's it's good. We we do.
Speaker 2: We do good stuff and.
Speaker 1: We're never tired as a result of running a daily
Speaker 1: Sometimes I explain to people like people are like, what's
Speaker 1: your writing schedule like, and I'm like, well, I write
Speaker 1: between five to nine thousand words of podcast script, two
Speaker 1: thousand words of substack post. Still have to stay on
Speaker 1: top of my fiction writing. And then yeah, I run
Speaker 1: two other podcasts.
Speaker 2: It's fine.
Speaker 1: I totally have a social life. His name is Rentraw
Speaker 1: and he is three years old and forty five pounds
Speaker 1: and barks dreamy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm happy with it.
Speaker 1: Well, the other thing I do is I'm on tour
Speaker 1: right now while this is released.
Speaker 2: I'm I think I'm in Philly today. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess I could look out the window if I
Speaker 1: were in the future like you are, but I'm not,
Speaker 1: and I'm on tour around some of the mid Atlantic.
Speaker 1: I'll be going up to Boston and Maine next weekend,
Speaker 1: and then the weekend after that, I'm gonna head up
Speaker 1: to Pitsburg, over to Cleveland, up to ann Arbor and
Speaker 1: points west. So you can catch me talking about the
Speaker 1: Sapling Cage, and then during Q and A you can
Speaker 1: ask me about the show. That's fine, I don't get mad.
Speaker 1: That's not sarcasm. I genuinely don't mind talking about it,
Speaker 1: even if I'm doing a different talk. So if you
Speaker 1: guys think you want to plug behind my Bastards is
Speaker 1: on YouTube, Daniel keeps telling me to plug that so
Speaker 1: you can see videos of our normal episodes every Wednesday
Speaker 1: and Friday.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh, and if you want this without ads, if you
Speaker 1: want all of cool Zone Media without ads, which is
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Speaker 1: You can just directly feed introl. Yeah, all right, see
Speaker 1: y'all next week. Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
Speaker 2: folzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
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