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Speaker 1: Whole Zone Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People did

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Speaker 1: cool stuff. Your podcast, it's yours, it's yours. Now you

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Speaker 1: can do it.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean? You know?

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Speaker 1: Fine, I'll do it. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy doing

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Speaker 1: my podcast. It's my podcast, but I have a guest,

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Speaker 1: and my guest is Mia wong Am.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Hello, also doing a bit of this podcast, like

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Speaker 2: five percent of this podcast.

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Speaker 1: That's true, and then also doing an awful lot of

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Speaker 1: the podcast at least as much as me. It's Sophie, Hi,

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Speaker 1: Sophie Hi. Also doing this podcast is Rory, our audio engineer. Hi, Rory, Hi, Rory, Sophie.

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Speaker 1: We can't continue until you say it. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: Hi Rory. I was just so I was thinking about

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Speaker 1: other things. I'm so sorry, Rory, my brain. Sophie was

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Speaker 1: thinking about dog costumes.

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Speaker 2: I kind of was. I won't lie. You're very cute.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about dog costumes and hats. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And our theme musical was written forced by un Woman.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Rousing, part four of our deep dive

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Speaker 1: into Korean anarchism.

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Speaker 2: You did it, you did it, Joe.

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Speaker 1: Wait, I don't get it. Wait, that's okay, that's happening,

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Speaker 1: It's okay. Was I being compared to Joe Biden for

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Speaker 1: not having a memory?

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Speaker 2: Oh I was so dark? Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: No, you were being compared to Kamala Harris finding out

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden beat Donald Trump out and calling him.

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Speaker 2: And going you did it, Joe.

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Speaker 1: Hooray.

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Speaker 2: That was so much funnier than it was supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: So to sum up where we're at Korea in case

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Speaker 1: people are like just checking in on the last episode,

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Speaker 1: that's fine. It's fine if you did that, although you

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Speaker 1: miss a lot. Korea was a Japanese collum in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen tens until World War Two, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: Korean rebels, including a lot of anarchists, fled Tomentaria. This

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Speaker 1: is my little like, little like. If you're catching up

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Speaker 1: on the Batman episode, here's the recap. You know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of Korean rebels, including a lot of anarchists, fled

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Speaker 1: Tomentaria immediately north of Korea. Korean anarchists developed a lot

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Speaker 1: of skills and ideas and philosophies and connections in China

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Speaker 1: and Japan with comrades there. And I have been trying a

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Speaker 1: bunch of stuff to make Korea both independent and also

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Speaker 1: a horizontal society. They opened a ton of schools, they

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Speaker 1: organized a ton of labor unions, they wrote a ton

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Speaker 1: of books and newspapers, they organized gorilla bands. And that's

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Speaker 1: the part I know at least about, and I want

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Speaker 1: to know more about. But generally they were cool people

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Speaker 1: doing cool stuff. And so there's two million Korean people

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Speaker 1: living in Manchuria by the mid nineteen twenties or so,

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Speaker 1: and they were at war on a lot of fronts.

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Speaker 1: They were at war against starvation because they're in an

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Speaker 1: incredibly inhospitable land like well, we'll talk about more in

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Speaker 1: a second. They're at war against the Japanese military who

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Speaker 1: wanted to destroy them as Korean rebels, but also wanted

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Speaker 1: to colonize Manchuria. They were also fighting against the pressures

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Speaker 1: from the constant warring in China, most specifically raids by

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Speaker 1: bandits and acting like bandits Chinese Communist Party. Manchuria countries

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Speaker 1: are fake and borders are fake. But Menoria is usually

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Speaker 1: presented as a region of China, but what could get

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Speaker 1: called Manchuria also extends up into what's currently Mongoli in

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Speaker 1: Russia because borders regions alfake. I have seen the Korean

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Speaker 1: presence in Manchuria described a lot of ways. I know

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Speaker 1: that's the theme of this fucking episode. A whole gradient

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Speaker 1: goes from oh, this is just warlordism whatever, They're just

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Speaker 1: the same as everyone else too. This is an anarchist

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Speaker 1: utopia of two million people who prove that all of

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Speaker 1: our ideas are right and there's nothing wrong with any

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Speaker 1: of them. I suspect that the truth is not just

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Speaker 1: in the middle, but like a dialectical third thing.

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Speaker 2: Ooh in narco warlordism.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, yeah, a narco nationalist warlordism. No, it's

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Speaker 1: funny and messy. It also, when I'm trying to read

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Speaker 1: about all of it, it doesn't help that every text

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Speaker 1: transliterates everyone's names differently.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a whole thing. Oh yeah, And.

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Speaker 1: Then a lot of the people are like related to

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Speaker 1: each other and just their names will be extra similar.

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Speaker 1: And then like translator, So I basically mean like, is

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Speaker 1: this two guys, this one guy? Is this eight guys?

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Speaker 1: Because I'm looking at eight names. You know that happened

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Speaker 1: a lot, But I believe I have a clear picture.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to present you a fairly clear picture. Koreans

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Speaker 1: have been moving into Manuria since about nineteen ten. This

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Speaker 1: is rugged mountains, which is usually the kind of place

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Speaker 1: historically with the least government, and that is totally honestly

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Speaker 1: part of why I live in West Virginia.

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Speaker 2: Just be real.

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Speaker 1: One source claims that the area was under warlord rule.

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Speaker 1: One claims that the areas that they were in wasn't.

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Speaker 1: And I suspect that the source claiming warlord rule was

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Speaker 1: claiming the Korean generals as warlords. But there's also this

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Speaker 1: thing where the Korean population was largely living in these

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Speaker 1: very remote areas, and so the warlords that would rule

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Speaker 1: mostly which were mostly Japanese aligned at this point, or

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Speaker 1: at least the main particular war war that they came

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Speaker 1: up against a bunch of times as Japanese aligned until

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Speaker 1: they killed him.

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Speaker 2: Which warlord is it? I remember him.

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Speaker 1: I didn't write his name in and I feel so

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Speaker 1: bad the Japanese eventually assassin I was like, I have

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Speaker 1: too many names in the script. The Japanese assassinated him.

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Speaker 1: I kind of actually didn't include him at all in

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Speaker 1: the script. But eventually he didn't like successfully stop the

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Speaker 1: nationalist enough Chang Kai Shek enough, so the Japanese who

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Speaker 1: were his allies just like assassinated him by bombing the

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Speaker 1: train he was on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so I will say this about that guy.

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Speaker 2: I remember this guy from the Warlers episode that I did,

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Speaker 2: and the source I was reading was claiming that he

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Speaker 2: wasn't actually a Japanese asset. It's just that everyone accused

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Speaker 2: him of being one because they assumed that he was

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Speaker 2: because he was fighting the nationalists and he kind of wasn't. No,

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Speaker 2: that would make sense because they yeah, they blew his

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Speaker 2: ass up. So I'm blinking at his name because it's

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Speaker 2: been like several years. Yeah, I really right to this stuff.

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Speaker 1: No, and I considered him a side quest that I

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Speaker 1: decided to abandon. He's like one of the trimmed branches. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: there's so much.

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Speaker 2: Also, one thing I do want to mention that I

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Speaker 2: think is kind of important to this story that isn't

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Speaker 2: talked about that much is that like Mansuria is by

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Speaker 2: Chinese standards, like fairly close to like it's not that

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Speaker 2: far away from from Beijing, Like it's kind of remote

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Speaker 2: in the sense that like it's not it's I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's it's a different power center than most of the

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Speaker 2: sort of like traditional Chinese power centers, right. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's make sure he is the place where the manchees,

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Speaker 2: which is the the Qing dynasty came out of. But

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Speaker 2: it's close enough to Beijing that it's kind of an

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Speaker 2: issue for people.

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Speaker 1: No. See, that's like, that's a good context. So overall

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Speaker 1: the Korean people living there. Because I was trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out, I was like, there's two million people here.

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Speaker 1: It's not Tara Knollys right. I was like, how is

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Speaker 1: it two million in Korean people in Korean societies? And

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Speaker 1: the answer is that they best as I can tell,

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Speaker 1: they did sort of find the areas that weren't super

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Speaker 1: populated because they're in the mountains and shit. But overall,

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Speaker 1: the Korean people are living outside of the Chinese state

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Speaker 1: and outside of external warlord rule, and they are outside

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Speaker 1: of control by Japanese or Russian forces. By nineteen twenty five,

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Speaker 1: they set up three self governing prefectures, the jiong Chen,

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Speaker 1: the Chanren, and the shin Men. These were set up

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Speaker 1: by various gorilla groups that were all doing the fighting.

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Speaker 1: They collectively had a militia basically those gorilla units, right,

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Speaker 1: and they defended the area and they were occasionally raiding

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Speaker 1: into Korea against the Japanese. As best as they understand,

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Speaker 1: this was the Korean Independence Army, not to be confused

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Speaker 1: with the other Korean Independence Army, which existed from nineteen

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Speaker 1: nineteen to nineteen twenty one and is the main thing

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Speaker 1: you find when you try to do more research about this.

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Speaker 1: But it's also called the Army of the North, which

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Speaker 1: is a sick name, that's true. And it grew out

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Speaker 1: of these righteous armies, right, the original one, the one

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Speaker 1: that disbanded in nineteen twenty one, the Korean Independence Army.

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Speaker 1: It dissolved because the fucking Russian Red Army ordered them

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Speaker 1: to integrate into the regular Red Army. Oh no, and

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Speaker 1: the Koreans who joined the USSR were later betrayed during

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Speaker 1: the forced ethnic cleansing of Manchuria in nineteen thirty seven,

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Speaker 1: when one hundred and seventy two thousand people were deported

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Speaker 1: to Kazakistan, which.

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Speaker 2: Is, oh, they're those people.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, it's not close. These are not nearby.

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Speaker 2: No. I guess we should also mention geographically, like in

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Speaker 2: terms of just what kind of like Vladivlastok is like

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Speaker 2: technically it's not technically EVENTUREI yet depending in terms of

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Speaker 2: where you're how you're doing the borders.

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Speaker 1: There's like two maps if you look it up on Wikipedia.

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Speaker 2: Yah. Yeah, yeah, Like Latavastok is like right there, right,

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Speaker 2: So it's it's just like like in terms of like

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Speaker 2: you know, we talked about Korea being sort of like

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Speaker 2: the shatter zone, like Manchuria is an even bigger one

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Speaker 2: because it's literally like it is bordered directly by China, Mongolia, Russia,

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Speaker 2: and then Japan is very very close by sea, and

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Speaker 2: then you know also like borders of Korea, etcter, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: So like there's all of these sort of imperial influences

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Speaker 2: are like literally right there. And like if the red

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Speaker 2: arby in flat of Astok is like, hey, we're gonna

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Speaker 2: do ethnic cleansings, deport you to whatever place that's some

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Speaker 2: like Stalinist or whatever decides to send you to, it's

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Speaker 2: exact Dania.

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Speaker 1: They they have the ability to do that, which is

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Speaker 1: completely on the other side of the country, and Russia

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Speaker 1: is a very big country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Also I want to mention the Stalinist line on

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Speaker 2: that was that they were scared that those people were

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Speaker 2: Japanese spies, which is i know, the most like out

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Speaker 2: of all of the Stalinist lions I've ever seen about anything.

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Speaker 2: That is the single most unhinged one, Like yeah, that,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's like their excuse for doing it is

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Speaker 2: we are racist. That's what they're that's their excuse, their excuses.

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Speaker 2: We don't trust Koreans because they might be friends with

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Speaker 2: the Japanese. The fuck is wrong with you? Just me

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Speaker 2: and they're the same, Like you think they look the same,

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Speaker 2: that's what you're saying. Yeah, it's like you literally, these

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Speaker 2: are a bunch of anti Japanese gorillas that you forcibly integrated,

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Speaker 2: and then the anti Japanese guerrilla is that you integrated

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Speaker 2: into your army. You are now sending a you are

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Speaker 2: now ethnically cleansing across the country because you think they're Japanese.

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Speaker 2: By was like, what is going? Oh god, So this

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Speaker 2: just makes me very angry because this is one of

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Speaker 2: the things there's a lot of kind of like weird

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Speaker 2: denialism about I'm sure on the left, and it's infuriating

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Speaker 2: to me. Yeah, no, I'm certain. I Like I read

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Speaker 2: one hundred thousand of the Koreans from Entrereo removed, and

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Speaker 2: then I also read that the whole thing was one

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Speaker 2: hundred and seventy two thousand, and so I don't know

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Speaker 2: whether that's like other people were also being moved.

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Speaker 1: I don't know enough about that. And also some of

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Speaker 1: the numbers that are wildly disparate, but none of them

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Speaker 1: are small numbers. Is that between sixteen and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: of those people died. Yeah, so between a tenth and half,

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Speaker 1: depending on how you calculate it all.

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Speaker 2: Because it turns out that being an ethnic cleansing, even

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Speaker 2: if they're technically not literally shooting you all, still kills

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Speaker 2: enormous numbers of people. Yeah, deeply evil stuff.

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Speaker 1: It also goes to show the primary lesson of history

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Speaker 1: of the twentieth century is when you make friends with tankies,

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Speaker 1: they kill you, even if you're a tanky. Maybe especially

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Speaker 1: if you're a tanky. Yeah, but that's not what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about. I just love a little side quest to

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Speaker 1: point out that you shouldn't trust the fucking USSR. Yep,

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Speaker 1: those earlier armies are gone. There's this new army, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's a lot of the same people. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I learned some from Joshua that one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: that a lot of these uh coming out of the

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Speaker 1: Righteous Armies. A lot of these armies were people who

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Speaker 1: had been part of like the Korean government and even

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Speaker 1: like putting down the dong Hak rebellion in eighteen ninety four,

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Speaker 1: and even some of them have been like kind of

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Speaker 1: fighting for the Japanese. And we're like, no, never mind,

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Speaker 1: and if I get anything wrong, it's not Joshua's fault

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Speaker 1: to my own inferences. I want to be clear about that.

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Speaker 1: But you have all of these like cops and soldiers,

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Speaker 1: shit and shit showing up at like anarchist schools to

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Speaker 1: be like, all right, here's how you organize the military

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Speaker 1: to kill the japan Ris. History is very weird, yes,

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Speaker 1: and ideological borders are like real borders, they're fake, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's also different places are different whatever. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: the general of this army was a guy named Kim

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Speaker 1: Joe jin, and he was pretty rat He's not an

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Speaker 1: anarchist yet at the start of all this, and there's

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Speaker 1: some stuff that I wonder about. He is talked up

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Speaker 1: as like he's one of the big national heroes of

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Speaker 1: all this, right because he's a general who like, well,

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Speaker 1: i'll talk about what he did in the second If

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Speaker 1: you read articles about him as soon as he turned eighteen,

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Speaker 1: which is around like nineteen in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 1: like nineteen oh five, nineteen oh six. I forgot to

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Speaker 1: write down what year he was born. But when he

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Speaker 1: turned eighteen, he's from this rich family. He freed all

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Speaker 1: fifty families of slaves his family owned and gave them

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Speaker 1: land and shit and burned the slave registry and this

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Speaker 1: gets called the first act of a man's patient of

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Speaker 1: modern Korea. The confusing thing about that, you're shaking your

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Speaker 1: head a little, right, I could see you think. And

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Speaker 1: didn't we just say in the last episode that slavery

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Speaker 1: was outlawed in eighteen ninety four in Korea?

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Speaker 2: Yes, we did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so huh myth making. Yeah, you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: he still might have done it. He's still might his

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Speaker 1: family probably still enslave people after it was illegal for

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Speaker 1: them to do it, you know, yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, see, for example, the entire history of the United States.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly why we celebrate Juneteenth instead of just the

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Speaker 1: fucking yeah. Well and also, yeah, though, what fourteenth the

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Speaker 1: fuck the amendment that means that slavery is still legal

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Speaker 1: if you're in prison anyway, Kim jo Jin was cool,

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Speaker 1: whether or not he's mythologized in this way or that right,

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Speaker 1: or at least what I know about him is fucking cool.

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Speaker 1: He served about three years in prison in Korea for

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Speaker 1: rebellion and shit, and then he moved to Venturia and

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Speaker 1: started taking up arms there, and this is like kind

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Speaker 1: of he's pretty early on the scene there, and he's

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Speaker 1: a really good general, and he kept killing all the

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Speaker 1: Japanese soldiers who were sent after him and shit, including

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Speaker 1: the first military victory by the Koreans against the Japanese

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Speaker 1: of the entire colonial period.

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Speaker 2: That rules. We simply love to see it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And as far as I can tell, these

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Speaker 1: autonomous prefectures get set up in nineteen twenty five, and

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Speaker 1: they're already pretty dang cool. I can see why non

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Speaker 1: political historians refer to them as being under rule by

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Speaker 1: war lords because they are created and supported by the military, wait.

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Speaker 2: Which by theirs? Whose military? Yes?

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Speaker 1: These gorilla groups, right, these like yeah, okay, these the

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Speaker 1: descendants of the Righteous Armies are like, okay, we are

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Speaker 1: defending this territory. So it is a militarily set up

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Speaker 1: political structure, which is sort of warlordism, right. But the

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Speaker 1: anarchists in the area, and there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: them supported the militarily constructed societies. And Kim Joe Jin

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Speaker 1: had a relative named Kim Jongjin, and he's one of

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Speaker 1: the major figures of the Korean Anarchist Federation. I can't

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Speaker 1: figure how they related. Everything's like a close relative. I've

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Speaker 1: seen it called like in three different sources. And this

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Speaker 1: is that federation that formed in northern Korea, right and

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Speaker 1: had to be like super underground, and they kept trying

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Speaker 1: to have conventions, and so I love that, like cause

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Speaker 1: you kind of have this like wacky when you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna call ourselves the anarchists and try and have

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Speaker 1: conventions and everyone's gonna get deported. Like no, they're like

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Speaker 1: doing shit. There's armies involved, you know, like yeah, And

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Speaker 1: so as these autonomous prefectures are getting set up, they're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty good at like killing Japanese soldiers, you know what.

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Speaker 1: I don't have any experience in constructing a society from scratch.

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Speaker 1: Ah yeah, hello, my close relative who talks about this

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Speaker 1: shit constantly, Like can't get you to shut up at

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Speaker 1: family dinner. You got any ideas? And the anarchists are like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we have some fucking ideas, the rules, So this is

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Speaker 1: how you have a like constructed from the top down,

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Speaker 1: bottom up society. And the generals are like, all right,

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Speaker 1: let's do it. Let's make an anarchist society. Let's fucking go,

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Speaker 1: and they they did it. It seems to be the

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Speaker 1: case from nineteen twenty five, but it's usually credited as

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty nine, which is when the Shinman District was

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Speaker 1: renamed the Korean People's Association of Manchuria. It called itself

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Speaker 1: quote an independent, self governing cooperative system of the Korean

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Speaker 1: people who assembled their full power to save our nation

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Speaker 1: by struggling against Japan. And if that isn't the most

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Speaker 1: anarchist nationalist statement ever made, because they're not calling themselves

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Speaker 1: a government. They're like, we are a self governing cooperative

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Speaker 1: you know, like King I didn't, I don't whatever. I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to do the mud farmer thing for Monty Python,

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Speaker 1: but I can't do it off the top of my head. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Like, I'm kind of less sympathetic to the non political

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Speaker 2: historians who are just calling the warlords because like the

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Speaker 2: warlords have sort of two organizational modes there's one that's

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Speaker 2: just almost pure banded army, and then the second one

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Speaker 2: is that they're just straight up being the state, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, like there is like a Republic of China

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Speaker 2: and in training the worlord period, and who has control

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Speaker 2: over it depends on sort of like who you know,

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Speaker 2: like but like like there's like people going through positions,

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Speaker 2: people are getting appointed to stuff, so like they tend

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Speaker 2: to be like parasitic on the existing state. And this

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Speaker 2: is very very.

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Speaker 1: Different from that even from the beginning totally. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it isn't different from our current economic system.

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Speaker 2: Is it the products of services?

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Speaker 1: Well, interrupting a podcast about non capitalist societies with advertisements

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Speaker 1: is an example of something that I don't know how

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Speaker 1: to finish my sentence, but.

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Speaker 2: Here's ads and we're back, okay.

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Speaker 1: So, and you have this sea of complications happening where

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Speaker 1: an anarchist structure was designed and implemented from the top down,

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Speaker 1: and basically representatives from the anarchist non government though like

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Speaker 1: cooperative structure or whatever, would go around and teach people

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Speaker 1: how to set up horizontal structures in their villages, and

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Speaker 1: it seems like people were into it. I don't think

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Speaker 1: this was at gunpoint. Nothing I have read argues in

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Speaker 1: that direction, and also nothing I have read argues that

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Speaker 1: they were like extracting from these communities much in fact,

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Speaker 1: specifically they were building infrastructure within these communities. How it

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Speaker 1: worked is it used a federated system, seemingly similar to

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Speaker 1: how like democratic and federalist systems like the one in Roshava.

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Speaker 1: Work power is invested in village councils, who then sent

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Speaker 1: delegates up to regional assemblies. The sort of bureaucrats working

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Speaker 1: at the highest level were paid the same as everyone else,

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Speaker 1: and they had executive departments working on agriculture, education, propaganda, finance, military, social, health, youth,

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Speaker 1: and there's one for general affairs. They did voluntary collective,

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Speaker 1: which is what the Spanish anarchists did not six years

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Speaker 1: later in Catalonia, where you know, they were like, let's

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Speaker 1: set up collective farms if you want. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that they actually like destroyed like the market economy.

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Speaker 1: I don't get the impression that that happened. And I'll

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Speaker 1: give you my reason why I think that. In a minute.

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Speaker 1: They set up free education for everyone up to the

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Speaker 1: age of eighteen. Ongoing adult education was available to anyone

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Speaker 1: who wanted it, and there was arms training for all

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Speaker 1: responsible adults, which makes sense.

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Speaker 2: They're in a war. Yeah, it's really a war that

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Speaker 2: is going to last from what like nineteen eleven to

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Speaker 2: nineteen forty nine. No, that's not even true because like,

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Speaker 2: well it's still technically going on. Yeah, yeah, it's just Yeah.

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Speaker 2: There were mutual aid banks, is how I saw them described,

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Speaker 2: and which I'm guessing these are sort of like the

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Speaker 2: people's banks advocated for by Prudon and many other anarchists,

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Speaker 2: which is basically a way for people to get capital

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Speaker 2: to build cooperatives without creating a society built on the

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Speaker 2: exploitation of capital. It's uncertain how many of their plans

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Speaker 2: were implemented or just planned or in progress. And by

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Speaker 2: that I mean of the like four or five sources,

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Speaker 2: one says, hey, I don't actually know how much they

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Speaker 2: actually pulled off, and then everyone else is like, they

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Speaker 2: did all this stuff, you know. Yeah, this is also

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Speaker 2: one of the records, one of the most of all

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Speaker 2: time records are fragmentary of all uh huh. It's like

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Speaker 2: the worst possible place on earth you're trying to get

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Speaker 2: records out of. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, to quote that book Anarchism in Korea, There quote

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Speaker 1: plans for agricultural development, education, and military training within its jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: as well as for its representative system along with its

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Speaker 1: administrative body, have all been praised as a reflection of

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Speaker 1: the anarchist idea of a government without compulsory government that

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Speaker 1: assured the principles of no rule, no naked power, and

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Speaker 1: no exploitation. It is unclear, though, whether they had a

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Speaker 1: substantial chance to implement these or related principles, programs or

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Speaker 1: policies during the short span of its existence, or just

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Speaker 1: to only had them planned on paper. That's the only

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Speaker 1: source that actually questions how much of it they got done.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's worth highlighting just because there's so

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Speaker 1: much myth making happening everywhere.

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Speaker 2: You know, yeah, yeah and so, and anarchists are not

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Speaker 2: immune to that, right.

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Speaker 1: Totally totally, because I could just be trying to add

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Speaker 1: to the like, here's the pantheon of perfect societies that

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Speaker 1: absolutely would have worked if it wasn't for the Dang

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Speaker 1: Kamis and the Dang imperialists. Yeah, you know which is well,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to it. It's like not that far from true,

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Speaker 1: but like, who knows, who fucking knows. You know, they

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Speaker 1: started off doing that thing that is doomed Horizontalist project.

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Speaker 1: After horizontalist project, they decided that the Japanese Empire was

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Speaker 1: the greater enemy, and so they didn't stop Bolsheviks from

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Speaker 1: organizing in their areas. Younger anarchists, either more worldly or

417
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Speaker 1: more hot headed, were like, no, we've seen the USSR

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Speaker 1: and we can't let that happen here. But Kim chuijin

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Speaker 1: that general was like, I don't know, I say we

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Speaker 1: deal with Japan first, And I don't know whether that

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Speaker 1: was like his call or not.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Spoiler alert.

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Speaker 1: The most common belief of historians is that it was

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Speaker 1: a communist who assassinated Kim Joi Jen soon after he said.

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Speaker 2: This, Yeah, you know, it's it's funny we talked about

426
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Speaker 2: this happening in Vietnam on this show, where in Vietnam

427
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Speaker 2: is like the rare example with the Communists in Vietnam

428
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Speaker 2: genuinely want to do this. But the problem is that, like,

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Speaker 2: and this is the problem for all of these deserted

430
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 2: bution of communis stuments, is that like they're not actually

431
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 2: in control of their run movements, like they can have

432
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 2: totally orders can come down from Russia from the common

433
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: turn And this is totally I've talked about this with

434
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 2: like in other podcasts, but like this is what like

435
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 2: orders coming down from Russia to work with Like the

436
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 2: nationalists gets a million Chinese workers killed, yeah, I in

437
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty seven, like in this period, like actually the

438
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 2: communists finally pull off a revolution in Shanghai in twenty seven,

439
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,479
Speaker 2: and then they get ordered by Moscow to like let

440
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 2: the nationalists the nationals kill everyone. Yeah, and this you

441
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: know the result of blood bath of this kills a

442
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 2: million people. And like this this issue, right, this issue

443
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 2: of sort of these groups a like almost purely being

444
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 2: in this for their own influence and be their willingness

445
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 2: to just like accept orders from Moscow and murder everyone

446
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 2: is just such a fiasco for just everyone in basically everywhere,

447
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 2: but like particularly in East Asia. It's just complete fiasco.

448
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 2: That makes sense to me.

449
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: And I think that that's like one of the things

450
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: that it's like, well, look, I can trust this person's intentions,

451
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: but if they're part of an authoritarian structure, it doesn't

452
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 1: matter how much I trust their intentions. It matters how

453
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: much I trust the intentions of the person on top. Yeah,

454
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: you know, and it's sad, and like Vietnam is a

455
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: perfect example of that, where like, overall, I think the

456
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: Vietnamese Communists are you know, we're trying to do right.

457
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 1: And yeah, we did a whole episode about a Trotskyist

458
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: who had to flee from I think from the styles.

459
00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: Oh god, it's been a while since I did that

460
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: fucking up episode anyway.

461
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, those stylists. Yeah.

462
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, So in the middle of this war on multiple fronts,

463
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 1: they worked on developing the kind of infrastructure that would

464
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 1: enrich small villages and give them more economic autonomy. For example,

465
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: they wanted to build a rice mill in this one

466
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: village so that rice could be milled locally instead of

467
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: being sold to middle men merchants, and like basically like

468
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 1: how to reverse economic extraction from these areas. And this

469
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: is the why I like that they worked to avoid

470
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: and counteract economic extraction.

471
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: Is part of my life.

472
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: They're not warlords.

473
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 2: Also, I have an entire episode about the middle bitch

474
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 2: structure in East Asian agriculture. That's about the company that

475
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 2: poisoned one hundred thousand babies whoa really Yeah, just specifically

476
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 2: in the milk industry later on, Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah,

477
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: but that's very specifically that middle men structure is so

478
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 2: noxious and yeah, yeah, so it's glad to see the

479
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 2: like trying to knock out these things. Yeah.

480
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: Well, Kim Juijin went in person to help build one

481
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: of these rice mills, and I get no impression that

482
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: this is like a photo op. I think he was

483
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: just like, this is what we're doing, is we're building

484
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,479
Speaker 1: a society, and I'm going to go build it by

485
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: putting bricks on top of each other. Hell yeah, we

486
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: know about this particular rice mill and his work on

487
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: it because at the age of forty, while working on

488
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: a rice mill to cut out the middlemen, Kim Juijin

489
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: was assassinated on January twentieth, nineteen thirty. No, at first,

490
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 1: most historians say this assassin was sent by Japan. Most

491
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: modern historians agree that it was a communist. Oh, this

492
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: did not stop the Korean People's Association. One advantage of

493
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: even a sort of accidentally top down anarcha's structure is

494
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: that's still an anarcha structure. They kept going and it

495
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: continued to grow throughout most of nineteen thirty. It expanded

496
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: into nearby regions and eventually encompassed about two million people.

497
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: The Korean anarchists in China in particular basically decided that

498
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 1: they were like, all right, this is our thing, this

499
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: is what we're supporting, and so you have this like

500
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: all the like, yeah, not all of but you know,

501
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: a ton of the Korean anarchists in China are like,

502
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: there's all these women smuggling guns up to the area,

503
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: and folks all start moving up there.

504
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: That rules.

505
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: But eventually anarchist Manchuria felt the way that more or

506
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: less every anarchist project has fallen. The Bolsheviks and the

507
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: right wing informally teamed up to fight it at the

508
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: same time. Anarchists Ukraine, of course fell because while the

509
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: anarchists were busy fighting against reactionaries, the Red Army came

510
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: and destroyed it. Anarchist Spain fell, and this one's messier,

511
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: but it fell because while anarchists were busy fighting Franco,

512
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: the Stalins waged a dirty war against them, and the

513
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: cohesion fell apart. And I'm only saying that one's messier

514
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: because it's completely possible that if the anarchists and the

515
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: communists had stuck together, they still would have lost to Franco.

516
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, because well, I mean that's one way they were fighting.

517
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 2: They're fighting Franco, they were fighting the Italian Army and

518
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 2: they were also fighting the Germans at the same time.

519
00:26:54,400 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, which yeah, yeah. And Anarchist Shinman fell because the

520
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 1: Japanese attacked it from the south while the Stalinists attacked

521
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: it from the north. To quote historian Alan mcsimeon from

522
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: his speech to the Worker Solidarity Movement in Dublin in

523
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, quote, in early nineteen thirty one, the

524
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: Stalinists sent assassination and kidnapping teams into the anarchist zone

525
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: to murder leading activists. By the summer of nineteen thirty one,

526
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: many leading anarchists were dead, and the war on two

527
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: fronts was devastating the region. It was decided to go underground.

528
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: Anarchist Shinman was no more. And just because I think

529
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: this person seems kind of cool, I want to point

530
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: out that another of the many people who was assassinated

531
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: was a man named Sim Yong Hay, who was a

532
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: Korean fluent in Chinese and Esperanto. Was murdered by the

533
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: Japanese in Manchuria in nineteen thirty and he'd been an

534
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: editor at National Customs Daily and he had lived in

535
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: the office.

536
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 2: I just I like this, like news.

537
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 1: This is a cool guy, right, yeah, yeah, he worked

538
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: at a newspaper called National Customs Daily that was an

539
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: anarchist newspaper and he lived in the office. What. Yeah,

540
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: it's amazing, I know, I know. And the other people

541
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: helping I mean and when you're like, oh, that sounds nationalist, well,

542
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: the other people who were working on it with him

543
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: was a Chinese anarchist and two Japanese anarchists.

544
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: Incredible stuff. And the group of.

545
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: Them when this paper spoke about how quote all under

546
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: Heaven comprises one family and the whole world is full

547
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: of whole brothers.

548
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: Oh, it's funny. Like the reputation of anarchists is that

549
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 2: we're the ones who do assassinations, and then you actually

550
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 2: look at the history and every single other faction is

551
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 2: doing even more assassinations. Yeah, and it just like doesn't

552
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: stick at.

553
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: All, And you're like, oh, anarchists are the mad bombers

554
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: of Like have you met countries?

555
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: Yes?

556
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: Like like the day before we recorded this, fucking Israel

557
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: just exploded pagers and radios to oh did it again

558
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: today too? Yeah, yeah, yeah, who knows what it'll be

559
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: by the time and that this comes out. But what

560
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: won't explode in your pocket is anything you buy from

561
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,719
Speaker 1: our sponsors unless they're made in Israel.

562
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 2: I don't know. Uh, it's Christ, here's ads and we're back.

563
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: I'm under the impression that the pages are exploded weren't

564
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: made in Israel, even though they were obviously you know,

565
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: it's obviously orchestrated by.

566
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a whole there's a whole debate right now,

567
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: but who made them? Probably you in the future will

568
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 2: know more about this than we do right now on

569
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 2: day two. Absolutely, so enjoy your knowledge and your FEELINGO

570
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: spoke superiority. It'll it'll get you through something. Hopefully the

571
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: work day.

572
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: A week from now, everyone will have like opened every

573
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: piece of electronics they own with like a little thing

574
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: to like see whether or not there's fucking explosives and

575
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: planted into it.

576
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: Anyway.

577
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: After the Anarchist project went underground and the they weren't

578
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: able to hold the space, the Koreans fought a long retreat,

579
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: but Japan invaded and con Manuari in nineteen thirty one,

580
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: creating the region known as Menchukuo. China appealed to the

581
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: League of Nations who asked Japan to leave. Japan was like, no,

582
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: I don't want it. Though, yep, the US refused to

583
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: recognize Japan's presence there as legitimate, and that kicked off

584
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: a naval arms race. And this seems like not not

585
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: a factor in the US's trade embargo on Japan and

586
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: Japan's bombing of Pearl Harbor, in the US declaring war

587
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: on Japan, and World War two. This is not the domino,

588
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: I don't think. But no, yeah, I mean like it

589
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: was a kind of I know, I guess we don't

590
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: need to fully go to the causes of World War two.

591
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 2: Year it did have some role. Yeah.

592
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: After the fall of anarchist Shinman, the remaining anarchists largely

593
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: went underground. Some fought in World War Two. Most anarchists

594
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: were so deep underground that while their actions were seen,

595
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: there was no real trace of who they were, how

596
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: they organized, or what they believed. There was another big

597
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: push for a common front against Japan during the Second

598
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: Sino Japanese War, which was from nineteen thirty seven to

599
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, and anarchists seemed overall to sort of

600
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: deradicalize in order to fight what they saw as their

601
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: common enemy, anarchism. Probably as a result of this de

602
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: radicalization or just whatever, it declined overall through that the

603
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, Korean anarchists stayed active elsewhere in China, in

604
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: Minchuria and Korea. And I know, I keep separating China

605
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: in Minuria and it's not actually true, but we're complicating things.

606
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 2: Well, it technically isn't this period in the sense that like, oh,

607
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: that's true because it's occupied by Japan.

608
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were involved in the war. They were bombing

609
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: endeming positions and such like the Shanghai Black Terrorist Group,

610
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: which in nineteen thirty three was a group of Korean

611
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: anarchists in China that attempted to assassinate the Japanese consular

612
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: and did a bunch of other shit, or the League

613
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: of Korean Youth in South China, which was organized in

614
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty Shanghai. They killed Japanese high officials and military

615
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: commanders in Korean Traders, and this was the sort of

616
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: central group of Korean anarchists in China, many of whom

617
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: had lived in Japan. And like, this is the kind

618
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: of thing where I like, hope one day I'm going

619
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: to find a fucking book or two about and just

620
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: just talk about the League of Korean Youth in South China. Yeah,

621
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: you know, it's platform because of course they had a

622
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: platform too, right. They were like, even though they're underground,

623
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: they're all wild shit. They were, Oh, there must have

624
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: been pure anarchists. Their platform was included denying and rejecting

625
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: political and syndicalist movements, as well as the family system

626
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: and religion. They were into spontaneous alliances to build society

627
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: that provided from each according to ability, to each according

628
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: to need, and they developed theories about how to turn

629
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: cities into organic, complex structures that looked like farming villages,

630
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: but more complex and larger.

631
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: That's cool, I know.

632
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: I hope they don't all die at the end of

633
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: this christ work. I don't fucking no, they're all underground

634
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: if it's not. Yeah, yeah, living in China and being

635
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,239
Speaker 1: involved in the fight against Japan is not a good

636
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: way to live a long life. But it's a oh yeah,

637
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: the way to die nice, you know, a way to

638
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: die proud. Yeah.

639
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like there were very few things in

640
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 2: world history that you could die fighting against where you

641
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: died like better than that, Yeah, Like it's totally.

642
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: And so then in Japan there's still Korean anarchists. They

643
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: are in the belly of the beast, and they ran

644
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: Black Newspaper, which was a propaganda war in Japan by

645
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: Korean anarchists and it went hard. At the time, Japanese

646
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: anarchists were doing this thing called the Society of Youth

647
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: and Farming Villages movement, and the slogan was let's appeal

648
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: to the peasantry, which is like a thing that just

649
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: keeps recycling as of Yeah, a theme like every sixty years.

650
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're due for another one soon. Like you're gonna

651
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: see all these American kids being like it's time to

652
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: go to the farming villages or whatever.

653
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: I thought I was worriing my camo hat or recording,

654
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: but I'm wearing a different hat.

655
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

656
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: But then after the invasion of China they moved into

657
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: the combat period. Black Newspaper put out its first issue

658
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: in the summer of nineteen thirty and it lasted about

659
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: five years. It was funded by anarchist organizations and by

660
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: Korean labor unions. It was published by the Tokyo Labor

661
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: Alliance at first and later by the Federation of Black

662
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: Friends and Free Youth. It was regularly banned and confiscated.

663
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: Its editors went in and out of prison, and it

664
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: was sent out and sealed envelopes to readers in Japan, China,

665
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: and Korea.

666
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 2: Are their rules?

667
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: I know, I know, Like this ain't a safe thing

668
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: they're doing, you know, like yeah, yeah, the slogan was

669
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: rush with revolutionary actions at the irrational contemporary society.

670
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 2: Oh, we love to see it. That's that's such a

671
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 2: good one.

672
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so yeah, the imperial country had anarchists sending

673
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 1: out information to its wartime enimy being like hell yeah,

674
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: fight us win, fuck us a lot like Russian anarchists. Honestly,

675
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: that's the main Well, we'll talk about more in a second.

676
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 1: And this newspaper it also covered news from around the world.

677
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: It kept people up with revolutionaries and also reactionaries, so

678
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: like people were like learning Hitler and Stalin and shit

679
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: while this is happening. They also actively worked to communicate

680
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: worldwide and break down East versus West. And it was

681
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: also run in partnership, probably run in partnership with Japanese

682
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: language anarchist papers available at that time. Eventually, basically, as

683
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: like the cycles of oppression against it kept happening, many

684
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: or perhaps most of its editors had to move to

685
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: China to avoid persecution. Imagine being like, I got to

686
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: go to the country we're invading.

687
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 2: It's safer there. Yeah, jus christ, Oh, I mean I

688
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 2: hope they got to like, like, I hope they got

689
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,280
Speaker 2: the Western China because yeah, totally.

690
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: Oh boy, honestly, I think most of them went and

691
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: joined the like Black Friends, Murder Club or whatever. You know.

692
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean many, many such cases.

693
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: Korea won its independence when the Japanese Empire fell. Some

694
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: assholes are a random line across the middle. The US

695
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: imperialized the South, the US the North, and they've been

696
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: in a cold war ever since. Both sides claimed the anarchists.

697
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: Both sides persecuted the anarchists. In nineteen forty five, the

698
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: anarchists in Korea de radicalized fully because they are easy

699
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: targets from the anti democratic governments. They launched an anarchist

700
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: political party. I think in South Korea this did not work.

701
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: This is also in part due to the rise of

702
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: the National Front that had tried to unite everyone from

703
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties onward, and they figured they could fight

704
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: for a society without government along the way, but for

705
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: now they need to fight against a common enemy. And yeah,

706
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: the closest parallel I can see is that there's anarchist

707
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: Ukrainian involvement in the Ukrainian War, like and they're part

708
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: of the traditional Ukrainian military alongside everyone else, because they're like,

709
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: we can deal with that when that man is not

710
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: murdering my family, you know.

711
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean it's like, especially in these conditions,

712
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 2: it's like like you are fighting you were fighting Japan,

713
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 2: You're you're finding go cheap who were going to kill

714
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: thirty billion people? Like it's you know, totally, things are

715
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 2: going extremely badly for everyone here. And it's yeah, yeah,

716
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: it's like are people making the best decisions? Maybe not?

717
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: But also like the scale of the slaughter is just

718
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 2: sort of incomprehensible, no, totally.

719
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: It's like we did an episode about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, right,

720
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 1: and for most of that conflict there was three different factions.

721
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: There's the anti Zionist Left, there was the Zionist Left,

722
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: and there was the essentially fascists who were happened to

723
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: be Jewish, and those three sides did not like each other.

724
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: And then when there's like we're just all dying, we

725
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: are just being exterminated. At that point, they coordinated their

726
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: actions together. Still to the very I think it's been

727
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: a while since the episodes. I think to the bitter end,

728
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: the anti Zionist left was like, we're not fighting alongside fascists,

729
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: but we will coordinate with them. We will coordinate our

730
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: attacks together because we need to not die.

731
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: We need to you know.

732
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, things can always be worse, you know, yep, And

733
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: so yeah. After nineteen forty five, during deradicalization, they were

734
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: more about autonomous government and autonomous people, and they moved

735
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: away from more specifically anarchistic ideas. Overall, this is the

736
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: way it's presented when it's a vey. I'm sure there's

737
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: people who stayed anarchist or whatever, and they were about

738
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: building social movements to show how important rural life was

739
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: alongside industrial development in cities, especially in the sixties and seventies,

740
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: and they worked hard to distinguish themselves from the communists.

741
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: Anarchism started to rise again in Korea in nineteen ninety

742
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: after the collapse of the USSR, and I've read about

743
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: how people are working to disentangle it from nationalism while

744
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 1: still being proud of the enormous legacy of anarchist freedom

745
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: fighters involved in a national liberation struggle. I heard from

746
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: that listener Joshua King about the complicated mythologization of Korean anarchists. Basically,

747
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: the role of the provisional government can't be downplayed, right,

748
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: and that was full of anarchists, and this has been acknowledged.

749
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: The previous president of South Korea, Moon jay jin, gave

750
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: a speech in twenty nineteen that explicitly shouted out anarchist

751
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: involvement in the struggle, which the right wing.

752
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 2: Was not excited about.

753
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, imagine just like the president of your country being like, look,

754
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: we gotta admit the anarchist did something.

755
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, I mean this is like a whole

756
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: other story. But like he's like Mija In's like from

757
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 2: a like I mean, he doesn't like an incredible president,

758
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 2: but he's like he's from a sort of like student movement,

759
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 2: democracy movement, like organize your background and you know those

760
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 2: people like you know, you could say what you want

761
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: about them politically, but all like a lot of those

762
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: people got machine gunned by by the Korean army, so

763
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: like they have more of a like.

764
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: They got some cred.

765
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 2: It's like a little bit more like I respect him

766
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: a little little tidy bit bore that I would like

767
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: his equivalent in a country where like his people didn't

768
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: get like absolutely bowed down with the backing of Jimmy Carter.

769
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: So whow the first jim Carter slander on cool Zone media. Oh,

770
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: one day I'm going to write the Jimmy Carter episode

771
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 1: I Hate You Jimmy. Jimmy Carter was the first American neoliberal.

772
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: People don't remember this because Reagan came afterwards and we

773
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: got Reagan neoliberalism instead of like the Socialist Party of

774
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: Italy and neoliberalism, which was what we were sort of

775
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 2: like angling towards. But he has that man has a

776
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: body count and it's no I believe it's largely in Korea. Yeah, No,

777
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: I like I always sort of knew. I was, like,

778
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: I assume there's some like you don't be president of

779
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 2: the United States without skeletons, like not even in your closet,

780
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 2: but like dancing around in the street. Yeah, So for

781
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 2: people who don't know what I'm talking about. There was

782
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 2: there was a giant so I mean, it's called pro

783
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 2: democracy uprising, but it was like more leftist than that

784
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 2: uprising in Korea, which is under that time like ruled

785
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 2: by actually was it. I'm forgetting which configuration of dictatorship

786
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 2: this was, but Jimmy Carter basically green lighted that, like

787
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 2: it's called like the Guansha Uprising. They basically formed like

788
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 2: a commune for a bit, and then Jimmy Carter green

789
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: lights the Korean army just killing the ball and cool.

790
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, also cool that the United States can green light

791
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: another I mean this is not surprising to any listener

792
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 1: of this show, but like, yeah, this is the thing

793
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: we're pointing out, like, yeah, that's not our country. It

794
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: turns out that's that's Korea. It's a different place. I

795
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: know all countries are fake, but uh, that's over there.

796
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 1: But what also is over there is the script because

797
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: it's now behind us because we finished it. Because we

798
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: talked about the Korean People's Association of Menuria and Korean anarchism.

799
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 2: Oh I promised us getting revenge on Japan by aheorg

800
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 2: hw Bush throwing up for the Japanese prime mitistry. Oh yeah,

801
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 2: let's do it now. I need to explain that, okay.

802
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 2: So the arc of this is that one of the

803
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 2: things that you know, the when the Japanese like Congress

804
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 2: Venturia and destroys the anarchist movement, kills all of these people, like,

805
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 2: that's one of the things that crystallizes I guess one

806
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 2: of the Japanese fascist movements, but just the one that's

807
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,240
Speaker 2: going to take power. I did a bunch of episodes

808
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: on u Ki Kishi, who was the prim to serve Japan.

809
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 2: He's the guy who founded the Liberal Democratic Party, which

810
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 2: is basically like effectively has ruled Japan as a one

811
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 2: party state for basically since it was founded in the

812
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: fifties until.

813
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 1: Like now, I love how words just don't mean anything

814
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: as soon as you get into politics.

815
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: Uh huh, yeah, it's why. I mean, there's literally a

816
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 2: line where k she walks out of prison and he said,

817
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: he's kidding, he's about to run for office, and he goes,

818
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 2: I guess we're all Democrats now. But so like they

819
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 2: get installed by literally the CIA, and CIA has individual

820
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: guys who are like running the election campaigns of individual

821
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 2: LDP candidates to make sure they win their election and

822
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 2: keep left out of power. Yeah, and so they do this.

823
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 2: It works, and the LDP holds onto power. But it

824
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 2: means that Japan is sort of like Semi's basically permanently

825
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 2: subordinated to sort of American imperial control. And the lasting

826
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: consequence of this is that when George H. W. Bush

827
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 2: vomits on the Japanese Prime minister at a dinner, there's

828
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: nothing they could really do about it, because this is

829
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: a party that was put in charge by the institution

830
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 2: that George H. W. Bush ran, the CIA. So and

831
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 2: now you know, there's a lot of there's a lot

832
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 2: made of the fact that the US sense as an

833
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: ambassador to Japan Raba Manuel. But like I don't know,

834
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: if you guys didn't what rab A manual is your ambassador,

835
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 2: you should have taken all that CIA money in the

836
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 2: fifties and sixties. So you know, this, this is our

837
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 2: this is our Our small amount of revenge is that

838
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 2: the head of the fascist party getting vomited on but

839
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 2: George W. Bush and not being able to do anything

840
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: about it. There's video of this, by the way, you

841
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 2: can find you can find the video. I'm into it.

842
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: I'm so into it.

843
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: Well that's it. Uh, did you got plugs?

844
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: We want we want to talk about it.

845
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 2: You're on a podcast, Yeah, I have have the podcast

846
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 2: that could happen here we do it. It comes out

847
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 2: five Oh my god. Six No wait, I guess technically

848
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 2: because the episode that's all of the episodes for the

849
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 2: week comes out on Saturday. It's every day. It's a

850
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: true daily, yes, so it is now literally every day

851
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: there is an episode, including including you can find Margaret

852
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 2: on there too. It's true. It's it's good. We we do.

853
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: We do good stuff and.

854
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: We're never tired as a result of running a daily

855
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: Sometimes I explain to people like people are like, what's

856
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: your writing schedule like, and I'm like, well, I write

857
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: between five to nine thousand words of podcast script, two

858
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: thousand words of substack post. Still have to stay on

859
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: top of my fiction writing. And then yeah, I run

860
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: two other podcasts.

861
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 2: It's fine.

862
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: I totally have a social life. His name is Rentraw

863
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,280
Speaker 1: and he is three years old and forty five pounds

864
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: and barks dreamy.

865
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm happy with it.

866
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: Well, the other thing I do is I'm on tour

867
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: right now while this is released.

868
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 2: I'm I think I'm in Philly today. I don't know.

869
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: I guess I could look out the window if I

870
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: were in the future like you are, but I'm not,

871
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 1: and I'm on tour around some of the mid Atlantic.

872
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 1: I'll be going up to Boston and Maine next weekend,

873
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: and then the weekend after that, I'm gonna head up

874
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: to Pitsburg, over to Cleveland, up to ann Arbor and

875
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: points west. So you can catch me talking about the

876
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: Sapling Cage, and then during Q and A you can

877
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: ask me about the show. That's fine, I don't get mad.

878
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: That's not sarcasm. I genuinely don't mind talking about it,

879
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: even if I'm doing a different talk. So if you

880
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: guys think you want to plug behind my Bastards is

881
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: on YouTube, Daniel keeps telling me to plug that so

882
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: you can see videos of our normal episodes every Wednesday

883
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: and Friday.

884
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 2: Hell yeah.

885
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: Oh, and if you want this without ads, if you

886
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: want all of cool Zone Media without ads, which is

887
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: becoming a better and better deal as time goes on,

888
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: because cool Zone Media has so many podcasts and they're

889
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: also good. You can sign up for Cooler Zone Media

890
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: and then you don't have to listen to ads and SOTAD.

891
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 1: You can just directly feed introl. Yeah, all right, see

892
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: y'all next week. Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is

893
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media.

894
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

895
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 2: folzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

896
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.