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Speaker 1: This is let's be clear, it's Shannon Doherty.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Rose McGowan, and I am here standing sitting with

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Speaker 1: my dog Perlita little Pearl for our dear departed, lovely,

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Speaker 1: amazing human, the Bravest, Bravest champion. I've known Shannon Doherty

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Speaker 1: and it's a real pleasure and an honor to be

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Speaker 1: able to do this. Her legion of fans worldwide, the

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Speaker 1: outpouring of love and affection and from her family and

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Speaker 1: friends and just and from strangers worldwide, has been magnificent

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Speaker 1: to behold. I feel Shannon around, I feel her energy

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Speaker 1: very strongly, and I think this would be a real

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Speaker 1: good thing for her to know that we're continuing on

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Speaker 1: in the bravery that she showed in telling her truth

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Speaker 1: and telling her story and getting to talk about things

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Speaker 1: she wanted to express. You know, there's something when you're

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Speaker 1: an actor and a performer, you get the lines that

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Speaker 1: are given to you, and that's what you talk about,

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Speaker 1: and that's what you say. And for me when I

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Speaker 1: wrote my book Brave, and for her when she did

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Speaker 1: this podcast, you know, that's when you get to speak

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Speaker 1: on your own terms. It's it's a very powerful thing

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Speaker 1: because imagine you go to work and your lines, everything

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Speaker 1: that you were going to say for yourself in your

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Speaker 1: own day and your own life, coming out of your

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Speaker 1: own mouth. Your thoughts are replaced by other thoughts, by

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Speaker 1: other voices, by a committee of voices, and that's who

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Speaker 1: you get to be, and that's who the world knows

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Speaker 1: you as. And a lot of times we can be

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Speaker 1: painted into a corner and we become this caricature, this

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Speaker 1: kind of false identity, and you kind of can't get

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Speaker 1: out from under a b you know, it's something that

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Speaker 1: traps you. I know what that's like, and I know

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Speaker 1: Shannon definitely knew what that was like as well. And

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Speaker 1: we both kind of were trapped and painted into these

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Speaker 1: corners until we kind of took a hold of our

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Speaker 1: own power and unpainted ourselves. There's always backlash that tries

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Speaker 1: to put you back in that corner, the false corner,

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Speaker 1: I call it. But it's been a real amazing thing

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Speaker 1: to watch and to know how many people she helped.

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Speaker 1: I first met Shannon when I did a cameo with

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Speaker 1: her in a movie called Nowhere. I had been discovered

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Speaker 1: maybe ten months before this in Hollywood, standing against a gym,

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Speaker 1: crying because my boyfriend had died and a woman came

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Speaker 1: up to me. And two weeks later, I'm starring in

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Speaker 1: this crazy movie called The Doom Generation, and the director,

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Speaker 1: Gregor Rocky was doing his next feature, a movie called Nowhere,

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Speaker 1: and he called and he's like, it's Shannon Doherty and

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Speaker 1: Tracy Lords, who'd been in a John Waters film at

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Speaker 1: that point. And I had known Shannon, like so many

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Speaker 1: others from Little House in the Prairie a few episodes

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Speaker 1: when I arrived in the US. I watched those and

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Speaker 1: loved them, and her role as Jenny was just so

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Speaker 1: amazing the fact that I can remember it all these

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Speaker 1: years later, and I don't remember almost anything else from

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Speaker 1: that show, just her, It's pretty special. And then of

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Speaker 1: course Beverly Hills nine o two on. Oh. And it's

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Speaker 1: funny because I was actually living in la for a

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Speaker 1: while at that point. I was around fifteen and a half,

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Speaker 1: and weirdly, because my life is a little strange and

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Speaker 1: hasn't followed kind of the normal path of most people's trajectory,

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Speaker 1: I was living on my own in an apartment, and

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Speaker 1: I had been emancipated from my parents and was completely

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Speaker 1: on my own, and I loved watching nine to two

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Speaker 1: and Oh, because it felt like there was this family,

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Speaker 1: this very loving family, while they're navigating this kind of wonky,

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Speaker 1: weird city, this weird reality that is Beverly Hills, that

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Speaker 1: is Los Angeles. And I was kind of on a

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Speaker 1: different side of Los Angeles, not the Beverly Hills side,

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Speaker 1: but it was still very like everybody else in the

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Speaker 1: world at that moment watching that show, you know. And

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Speaker 1: so the day I met Shannon, it's a very unique day.

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Speaker 2: We were dressed, I.

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Speaker 1: Don't know how to explain it in a completely ridiculous way.

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Speaker 1: I was orange, I believe she was blue or red,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember. And our hair was teased out giant.

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Speaker 1: We had braces on these crinoline kind of Cindy lapper skirts,

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Speaker 1: you could say. They're kind of big and puffy. And

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Speaker 1: there was the three of us and we had giant,

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Speaker 1: giant hair, and we're talking like valley girls, like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, did you see Eileen?

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Speaker 2: I hear she lives in Whittier.

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Speaker 1: And which is a I guess a suburb of Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: And we were on a main street in Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: and they'd block some of it off for traffic, but

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Speaker 1: of course we looked so strange. The first thing I

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Speaker 1: really remember about being next to Shannon is that we

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Speaker 1: caused a three car pile up, a giant automobile crash,

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Speaker 1: like three cars like they stacked on top of each

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Speaker 1: other and had steam coming out of them, and we

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Speaker 1: were just quite the sight to behold. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I should have known then that our relationship started with

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Speaker 1: a giant crash, that we were meant to be and

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Speaker 1: destined to be intertwined for most of our lives, for

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Speaker 1: the bulk of our adult lives, as it turned out.

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Speaker 1: How strange, right, And that day Shannon was in a mood. Recently,

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Speaker 1: the last time I was wish Hannon, she actually told

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Speaker 1: me about that day and what had gone on. That

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Speaker 1: somebody around us had called her then boyfriend and lied

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Speaker 1: and said Shannon was kissing a crew member or something

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Speaker 1: weird like that, and her and her then boyfriend, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure who it was at that time that you know,

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Speaker 1: there weren't cell phone so it wasn't like you were

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Speaker 1: texting back and forth blowing up each other's phones, you know,

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Speaker 1: denying something. And she was in a mood. She was

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Speaker 1: furious and there's just a very strange energy. And I

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Speaker 1: remember at the end of that day, I mean, she

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Speaker 1: invited me to sit in her car, her Mercedes with

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Speaker 1: her for lunch. I sat there with her for lunch

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Speaker 1: and she was just raging and I didn't kind of

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Speaker 1: understand what she was talking about. And it's amazing that

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Speaker 1: all these years later I finally got to understand and

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Speaker 1: understand that she was justified anger, definitely justified. Being lied

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Speaker 1: about at any stage and accused of something you haven't

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Speaker 1: done is rough, you know. So I think it actually

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Speaker 1: really impacted her relationship with that man she was with, unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: And that's the first time I met Shannon. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time, I remember her laughing, and I remember

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Speaker 1: her professionalism and they also I remember leaving there and thinking, like,

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Speaker 1: whoa if, I I don't think I want to be

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Speaker 1: an actor, I don't think I want a part of

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Speaker 1: this world's I don't think this world.

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Speaker 2: Is for me.

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Speaker 1: And then I did a movie called Scream and then

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Speaker 1: that hit and I kind.

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Speaker 2: Of got stuck in that world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's how I knew her before I joined Charmed.

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Speaker 1: And the thing is that was it's a very unique time.

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Speaker 1: There was not a lot of crossover between film and

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Speaker 1: television then, and I was on a very unique trajectory.

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Speaker 1: I'd had four movies at sun Dance, the most anybody

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Speaker 1: had in competition there at any time when something very

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Speaker 1: bad happened to me, and it was a setup and

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Speaker 1: the whole thing down the line from a ten am

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Speaker 1: breakfast meeting with my boss. I was in the middle

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Speaker 1: of my second film for this company, his company, and

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Speaker 1: I had to go back and finish filming that movie,

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Speaker 1: and from the outset, I was not okay with what

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Speaker 1: had happened to me, and I fought it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: words spread like wildfire in town. I refused to sign

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Speaker 1: a non disclosure. I didn't know what that was, but

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Speaker 1: when it was explained to me, I was like, wait,

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Speaker 1: so I can't talk to a therapist. I had this

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Speaker 1: idea that if I went to six months of therapy,

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Speaker 1: I could then be fixed and I could.

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Speaker 2: Be back to who I was before. And that's not

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Speaker 2: how it turns out.

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Speaker 1: That was just kind of a young mind approach to trauma,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't really understand kind of the levels of

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Speaker 1: what would happen to me at that point, and I

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Speaker 1: just I felt very lost and from I'd had about

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Speaker 1: four movies lined up to do that year, probably would

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Speaker 1: have made around like seven million dollars or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and they all fell apart and I got cast in

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Speaker 1: a show called Charmed. Now I'd known that Shannon was

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Speaker 1: on this show, but I never watched the show. I

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Speaker 1: didn't I didn't really watch TV. I was working. I

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Speaker 1: was just doing movie after movie after movie at that

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Speaker 1: point until you know, kind of the breaks slammed and

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Speaker 1: from then on we were like really pitted against each

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Speaker 1: other in the media. And it also wasn't until recently

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Speaker 1: that I understood kind of the backstory of her even

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Speaker 1: leaving there, because when I got there, it was it's

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Speaker 1: kind of, you know, like what Hollywood does.

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Speaker 2: I call Hollywood a cult.

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Speaker 1: I called it that in my book Brave, and it

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Speaker 1: compares the kind of the sect, the group that I

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Speaker 1: grew up in behind walls, to the cult of Hollywood

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Speaker 1: and how how cults work in general. It was not

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Speaker 1: about sexual harassment or assault or anything like that. It

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Speaker 1: was It's an idea book and bravery and the bravery

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Speaker 1: it takes to live of under under a lie that's

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Speaker 1: manufactured about you. And that's something that I know, Shannon deeply,

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Speaker 1: deeply understood I. However, at the time I joined charm

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Speaker 1: did not understand kind.

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Speaker 2: Of the backstory.

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Speaker 1: I was just told she was fired and nobody talked

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Speaker 1: about her, which is what happens in cults.

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Speaker 2: They memory hold you.

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Speaker 1: That's a term for just kind of blanking people's memory,

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Speaker 1: and they don't mention the person they're kind of they kind.

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Speaker 2: Of ceased to exist.

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Speaker 1: And I was just trying to keep my head above

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Speaker 1: water at that point. I was very famous at that point,

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Speaker 1: but I was persona non grata, non hirable. But I

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Speaker 1: was famous and caused disruptions everywhere I went. And I know, again,

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Speaker 1: this is kind of something that Shannon we later talked

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Speaker 1: about that she related to, you know, the weight of

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be to have the media machine

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Speaker 1: lie about you. She was vulnerable on that show. She

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Speaker 1: was vulnerable knowing what I know now, you know, knowing

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Speaker 1: that she had left nine oh two and zero in

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Speaker 1: kind of a cataclysmic way, and then when she joined Charmed,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really understand her passion for I didn't know

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Speaker 1: anything really about the show at all. So for me,

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Speaker 1: it was just perceived by the public as a very

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Speaker 1: strange move. Why would someone in movies, why would they

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Speaker 1: go do a TV show? And I couldn't explain, Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm famous and I can't get any other job, and

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Speaker 1: it looks interesting, and you know how it happened for me.

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Speaker 1: And I've told this story, you know, on stage with Shannon.

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Speaker 1: What a gift to be able to spend that last

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Speaker 1: year and a half with her, really really amazing gift.

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Speaker 1: But the story I told is I was in Romania

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Speaker 1: doing a movie and I get a call and it's

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Speaker 1: a producer named Aaron Spelling, and I hang up because

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Speaker 1: I didn't know.

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Speaker 2: I was like, why would Aaron Spelling be calling Romania? Haha?

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Speaker 1: Click, And I had this little voice like Rose McGowan,

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Speaker 1: would you like to join, you know, the cast of

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Speaker 1: Charmed on a show? And I was like, I didn't

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Speaker 1: really know what he was talking about, but I was

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Speaker 1: open to meeting him. So I am on a plane

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Speaker 1: home to Los Angeles. I'm like, okay, Universe, give me

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Speaker 1: a sign if I meant to be doing this. And

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Speaker 1: the weirdest thing is from never before and never since

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Speaker 1: have I ever seen Charmed on any airplane offered as

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Speaker 1: the entertainment on a flight and I was going from

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Speaker 1: a Romania to Los Angeles, and the pilot episode of

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Speaker 1: Charmed was the entertainment offering so strange, and it looked

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Speaker 1: cool and moody and dark and unique, and the acting

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Speaker 1: was really strong, And I said, yes, I didn't really

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Speaker 1: understand what it would entail.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'd still be here talking about it all

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Speaker 1: these years later, that there'd be legions of legacy fans

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Speaker 1: and new fans, and how interwoven we would be in

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Speaker 1: people's lives. And I think Shannon definitely did understand all

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Speaker 1: of that. She definitely understood the power of the medium

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Speaker 1: of television in a way that I had not. And

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Speaker 1: when I got there, it was just strange. And I

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Speaker 1: was told over and over and over, no show survives

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Speaker 1: a major cast change. You only have like two hundred

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Speaker 1: and something jobs on the line, and far more behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes of people you can't see in administration. But

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Speaker 1: no worries if everybody loses their jobs because you joining

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Speaker 1: it's going to tank the show.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry. It's not your fault.

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Speaker 1: And that was said to me that I was going

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Speaker 1: to fail over and over, and so I just kind

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Speaker 1: of refused to fail. And I also knew that I

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Speaker 1: was in a very vulnerable position. The thing in Hollywood

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Speaker 1: is if you got fired as a woman from a job,

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Speaker 1: you didn't get a second chance. So it was already,

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Speaker 1: you know, a miracle that Shannon was there in the

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Speaker 1: first place, and I think that's certainly what made her

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Speaker 1: vulnerable to kind of the operation behind the scenes that

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Speaker 1: took her out to be blunt. That's what made her

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Speaker 1: vulnerable to that, and that person knew it and that

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Speaker 1: group knew it, and that was that was she was

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Speaker 1: preyed upon in that way. And I don't think there's

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Speaker 1: anything wrong with someone wanting things to be better, and

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Speaker 1: that's kind of you know, they made it sound like

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Speaker 1: she was difficult. Shannon was good. She was really good.

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Speaker 1: She was a damn fine actress and director. She really

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Speaker 1: cared about what she was putting out there, as did I.

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Speaker 1: But I was in a different way joining I knew

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Speaker 1: I had no pull, and it was just very weird

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Speaker 1: on the set kind of from from the get go.

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Speaker 1: It was just very different universe from movies where it

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Speaker 1: might turn out badly, but everybody's all in it. There's

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Speaker 1: there's artists, there were artists there, you know, there was

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Speaker 1: and for me, I felt the business around the show,

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Speaker 1: the business people. It felt kind of like I could

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Speaker 1: be working at a pencil factory in Ohio churning out

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Speaker 1: things at a high volume, which was just kind of

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Speaker 1: a shock to my system. And at the time, granted,

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Speaker 1: they'd been on the air for quite a few years

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Speaker 1: when I joined, so it was a pretty well oiled machine.

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Speaker 1: They knew what they were doing. And yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I imagine now with hindsight, it was so strange for everybody involved,

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Speaker 1: everybody there, not just me and not just Shannon, And

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Speaker 1: looking back at it, you know, from the get go,

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Speaker 1: every question was like, do you think Shannon Doherty hates you?

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Speaker 2: Do you think she's jealous of you? Do you think?

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Speaker 2: Do you think? Do you think? Do you think? What

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Speaker 2: do you think? And I refused to take the bait.

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Speaker 2: I did not.

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Speaker 1: They wanted me kind of to continue or start a

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Speaker 1: war with her, and I just was like, absolutely not,

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Speaker 1: I will absolutely not do this. And to her credit,

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Speaker 1: she absolutely did not do that either. And that's been

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Speaker 1: something that's.

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Speaker 2: A real world.

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Speaker 1: Class character about her, you know. And the thing is

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Speaker 1: both of us have been I just put this exactly,

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Speaker 1: but I would say they use the term parasited.

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Speaker 2: It's not a word. But when a.

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Speaker 1: Parasite attached to the host body, they steal their creativity,

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Speaker 1: they steal their work, they steal their joy, they steal

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Speaker 1: their nutrients, their food, their their food supply. And that's

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Speaker 1: what a parasite does to a human body. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: I think there are parasites in human skin, and they

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Speaker 1: wear human skin.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we both.

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Speaker 1: In this life and on that show and around it,

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Speaker 1: and since.

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Speaker 2: Had a parasite attached to.

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Speaker 1: Us, I didn't understand a lot of what happened with

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Speaker 1: her in a way that I kind of wanted to

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Speaker 1: not know, because that way I couldn't I would not

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Speaker 1: be lying in any interviews and I wouldn't have to

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Speaker 1: have any feeling about it. But looking back, I mean,

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00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:27,359
Speaker 1: putting myself in her shoes, how devastating, how devastating, and

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Speaker 1: how dare someone say? You know, if I, honestly, if

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00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 1: I hear a parasite say hurt people, hurt people as

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00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,119
Speaker 1: an excuse for their crap behavior one more time, I

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00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 1: will actually scream and light the world on fire. I

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Speaker 1: think on Shannon's behalf and maybe my own two and

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Speaker 1: quite a few people who've experienced this. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: a narcissistic quality to parasites. They want what they want,

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Speaker 1: they take what they take, and they feel that they're

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Speaker 1: owed that, and they know that they're not the real talents,

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Speaker 1: that they are not the true ones, but they can

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Speaker 1: feed off other talent. And and I know that that

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Speaker 1: that's that's what was done to her and later on

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Speaker 1: done to me. And I think it is one hundred

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00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,719
Speaker 1: percent valid knowing you have a ticking clock. We all

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Speaker 1: have ticking clocks, but Shannon really knew she had a

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Speaker 1: ticking clock on her to to want to talk about

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Speaker 1: this and to set the record straight for herself, because

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Speaker 1: it gets exhausting being lied about, and when you're led

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Speaker 1: about on that scale, as I have personally experienced. You know,

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Speaker 1: in my case, a very very evil, evil predator that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people seem to be okay with, I

325
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Speaker 1: just was not okay with this. Bought a medium machine,

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Speaker 1: bought journalists off all over the world.

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Speaker 2: This is fact.

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Speaker 1: This has been put in a journalist ron in Pharaoh's

329
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 1: book and the New York Times book. Bought journalists contracts

330
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Speaker 1: and said, you know, go after this person if you

331
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Speaker 1: ever see them, I'll buy your I'll buy your story

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Speaker 1: and turn it into a movie, and in trade, you

333
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Speaker 1: need to character assassinate this person. So I'm just saying

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Speaker 1: I've I had for me. It was twenty something, two

335
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Speaker 1: and a half decades of stalking at the highest level

336
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 1: and ruining my good name to a point where I

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00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 1: couldn't fight. And Shannon knew that too. But what we

338
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,639
Speaker 1: both did and what I admired the hell out about her,

339
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 1: she just kept working and both of us were put

340
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 1: in things that we wouldn't have been doing had this

341
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:30,159
Speaker 1: not happened to us, we wouldn't have been in a

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00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,200
Speaker 1: different playing field, so to speak. But at the same time,

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00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,359
Speaker 1: this did not lessen our intention and honoring of the

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Speaker 1: work that was in front of us that we could

345
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Speaker 1: and were able to do. But it's very hard, and

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Speaker 1: what people don't understand is that it's not you know,

347
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Speaker 1: people talk about the show Charmed and Shannon leaving and

348
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 1: firing and like as if it was it it just

349
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Speaker 1: affected her career.

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00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 2: That's not the case.

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Speaker 1: When someone lies about you and they have a machine

352
00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:01,439
Speaker 1: behind them, a powerful machine affects how people in a

353
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 1: store where you're going to buy something, treat you. It

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00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,239
Speaker 1: affects certainly how the media treats you. It affects how

355
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,879
Speaker 1: people online treat you. It affects future relationships you meet someone,

356
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 1: how any stranger perceives you, because they have all this

357
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 1: like arsenal of kind of lies that they're taught to

358
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 1: believe and not question. And why would they because this

359
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 1: is the dominant narrative, and it's extremely hard to get

360
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,159
Speaker 1: out from under the dominant narrative. And I am so

361
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:34,199
Speaker 1: proud that our girl did that. She did that, She

362
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 1: did that in the end and on her terms, and

363
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 1: by doing it, she helps so many people, which is

364
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 1: something that for me, I, you know, I sometimes get

365
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 1: asked like, you know, why are you like how you are?

366
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Speaker 1: And I'm sure she was asked that too. The bravery

367
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 1: it took for her to share her health journey in

368
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 1: a town where it's all about the look and nobody

369
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 1: can ever see you weak, The bravery it took for

370
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 1: her to be real and raw. For her, it was

371
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Speaker 1: actually not that much, because that's.

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Speaker 2: Who she is. For other people, it would have taken.

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Speaker 1: That. GE's inconceivable that they would share those moments, these

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00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: moments of deep vulnerability, these moments of weakness, and the

375
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: fact that she knew she could help others and herself

376
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Speaker 1: by having a community around her all the hats off

377
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 1: and anybody suffering that I know she would want you

378
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: to go on and keep fighting because she fought.

379
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 2: She fought.

380
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 1: It was amazing. Sorry that brings tears to my eyes.

381
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 1: Moment for shoving it down. And what I'd love about

382
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,640
Speaker 1: this last year and a half, almost two years now,

383
00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 1: it was such a gift. She never complained. She complained

384
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 1: about like stuff that, you know, why is the microphone

385
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: not sounding right? Like professional stuff, like pro stuff.

386
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 2: She's a pro. She was a deep pro. We're both pros.

387
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 1: But she's a pro pro and like things to run

388
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 1: like a pro likes things to run. And But in

389
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 1: terms of her physical pain, her, if she had limitations,

390
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: if she was tired, she just kept going. And all

391
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: she would say is sometimes, you know, if too many

392
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: people tried to hug her at once, she was like,

393
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: you know, it's better for me not to. But she

394
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 1: almost always gave in and would hug anyway, even though

395
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: she was immuno compromised, which was.

396
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 2: What a hero, What a heroine she was was I

397
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: hate that word.

398
00:22:53,520 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm gathering my It's hard when uh, a public

399
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 1: warrior leaves because there's not that many. There's not that

400
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: many that inspire me, inspire others because there's so many

401
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: polished people, and I think what the world needs now,

402
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: you know, more than ever are heroes, real ones, people

403
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: you can really believe in, you know, and they're not

404
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: gonna sell you out, They're not gonna lie, and they're

405
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: gonna be transparent. And when I was so happy when

406
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 1: I found out she was gonna come on this kind

407
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: of reunion tour that we did.

408
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 2: It was so badass.

409
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 1: I loved sitting next to her on stage and like

410
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: all of you out there listening, you've.

411
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 2: Heard her laugh. God, what're a world class laugh?

412
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 1: Right? She was fun and something I didn't know about Shannon.

413
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: I mean I did know, but like watching her, like

414
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 1: how many close friends she had and how she had

415
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: love of her family around her. That's something I don't

416
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 1: have as much and didn't have, and it forms you differently,

417
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: and it's really inspiring and beautiful to know that, you know,

418
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: if you do the work to heal the trauma with it,

419
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: you don't have to be frightened of people that you

420
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 1: can reach out a hand across troubled waters and join

421
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: hands and join forces, as we did. And we had

422
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 1: every reason. We were pitted against each other for so

423
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: many years. She had every reason not to like me,

424
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: not like personally, but just as in somebody that's attached

425
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 1: to a traumatic period of your life. It's very hard.

426
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: That's hard, and God, she had grace with that. She

427
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: really did. It's like incredible, And my relationship for there

428
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: was funny. She had a tough venire at first, you know,

429
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: and we chipped away at it. And I was not

430
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: in the best physical shape when I started, not like

431
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: anything like she has, but something different that's manageable, and

432
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: it was not in great shape when I started to

433
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 1: tour with her, and as I started to get healthier,

434
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,959
Speaker 1: her started to decline.

435
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: And so I feel like there's a reason that.

436
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: We were put together in that last year and a

437
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 1: half of her life. What a life she lived, she

438
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,239
Speaker 1: really she lived so many lives in one life, and

439
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: that I certainly relate to. I know a lot of

440
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: us can, but she lived life on a grand.

441
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 2: Scale with gusto and just badass fun.

442
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: One of the things we learned, I think from each

443
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: other by being outspoken was actually how much more similar.

444
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 2: We were than different.

445
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: And about a month before she died, we got to

446
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: be together, just alone, just me and her, for the

447
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: first time ever and for the first time in twenty

448
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,719
Speaker 1: five years, and it was so cool and we just

449
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: we actually didn't want the night to end. And it

450
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: was both wholesome and that word is so dorky, but

451
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: here we are.

452
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 2: It was. It was sweet.

453
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: She told me stuff that I had never known, and

454
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,959
Speaker 1: I told her stuff that she didn't know, and she

455
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: had some questions for me and I answered them and

456
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: vice versa. And then she told me she was going

457
00:26:53,359 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 1: for some experimental treatment, and we talked about me doing

458
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: the podcast with her, and I was like, I'll wait

459
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: a little while longer. And I had a feeling when

460
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 1: she said about the treatment.

461
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 2: I just had this.

462
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: That this was not really going to go well. And

463
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 1: she looked frightened for the first time, frightened, and I

464
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: gave her a big hug and I told her I

465
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 1: loved her. I do regret not doing the podcast with her,

466
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I think because so much

467
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: of our relationship had played out publicly that to have

468
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: that period of time just for us was really special.

469
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 2: You know.

470
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: To get to be on stage with her and Holly

471
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: and witness their legendary friendship was really special.

472
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: There's so much.

473
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: About her that it's like it kind of had like

474
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: she had that kind of stardust on her.

475
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know.

476
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 1: And if I have any regrets, I wish I could

477
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: have gotten an hour sooner. I don't know how that

478
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: would have happened, but I wish we could have. Yeah,

479
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: you know, we both despised corporate feminism as they call it,

480
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: like slogans and fake fake activists and people that are

481
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: just do it for the clicks and the glory but

482
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: without putting in actually the work and the trauma that

483
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: it takes to do that work. That word is a

484
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: bit overused, but sometimes it's actually really what it is,

485
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: and it is and it takes a lot, you know.

486
00:28:54,640 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: So if I have regrets professionally transparently, I regret ever

487
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: being an actor. Yeah, I think that was the wrong

488
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: drop for me. I was quite good at it, but

489
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: like Shannon, I love directing more. And the last thing

490
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: I did in Hollywood was direct a movie and it

491
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: was nominated for Grand Jury Prize at Sundance, which was

492
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: very very proud of because only filmmakers can vote for that.

493
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: It's not a popularity contest. But behind the scenes it

494
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: got dismantled by my longtime stalker and his posse, and

495
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: that's when I knew that it would never ever stop.

496
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: It was never going to stop. And that's what I

497
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: said about for about four years, probably starting around twenty fourteen,

498
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: talking to journalists, following journalists all over the world on

499
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: Twitter as it was then called, and and writing things

500
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: in a way that they would kind of go viral

501
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,719
Speaker 1: about every three weeks. I kind of tricked them and

502
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: I hashtag something called Rose Army based on the Trojan

503
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: Horse myth and the Spartans. But I didn't have a

504
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: big fake horse. I just had me in a hashtag

505
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: and made it sound like there are millions and millions

506
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: of us, and now there are millions and millions of us.

507
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: But then it was just me, and I kind of

508
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: was so unusual in the things I was saying for

509
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: an industry that likes only kind of the shiny false

510
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: narrative that I was shocking people. And again I saw

511
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: seen so many people like say, I'm a feminist. I

512
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: don't even consider myself that I don't any kind of

513
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: psychological operation that's run on the public with a narrative

514
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: or a name. I don't consider myself a part of

515
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: always been an outsider, and Shannon, you know, was always

516
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: an outsider too, in a different way. But she loved Hollywood,

517
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: she loved in a lot of ways, the machine of it.

518
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: I did not. I was not raised there in that way.

519
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 1: I was raised by artists, truth tellers, scientists, very different minds,

520
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 1: and it formed me differently the way I was formed.

521
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: And for me, the things that I'm most passionate about

522
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: are letting people know that they are better than what

523
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: they've been told, that they're braver than what they know,

524
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: and in these especially scary times, that it's really important

525
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: for all of us to stitch together the little joys.

526
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: I live in Mexico, and my favorite word in Spanish

527
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: is allegria and that means joy. So I see it

528
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: like kind of just stitching together these joys, right, little things,

529
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: little things birds in the trees, that beautiful rose no

530
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: pun intended, growing through the crack in the sidewalk. And

531
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: you know, I regret that I had to do things

532
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: that were so stressful that it gave them the ammunition

533
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: to portray me a certain.

534
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: Way, like the angry blah blah blah.

535
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: I was angry literally at the interviewer because I realized,

536
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: oh my god, there's a.

537
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: Whole operation being run on me.

538
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: I was in the middle of my interview, an interview

539
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: for my book, when they said you're the face of

540
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: me too, and I didn't know. I said, what is that?

541
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: And then now they're joined forever. My thing was just

542
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: like power abusers, back up, We the people have a voice,

543
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: We matter, we count all of us. And Shannon did

544
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: that in a different way. For people struggling with a disease,

545
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: this crippling, brutal disease that's caused by so many factors

546
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: in our environment, caused by traumatic stress that's in our lives.

547
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: I mean that eats away at us. And you know,

548
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: I do think her getting to speak her truth most

549
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: likely helped her live longer because it relieves that stress.

550
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: And I hate that she had relationship stress towards the

551
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: end of her life. But we also laughed about how

552
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: neither of us were particularly very good at that sort

553
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: of thing.

554
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: Either.

555
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: It's hard being the breadwinner and being very independent and

556
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: strong and then being in a relationship, they don't kind

557
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: of always match, and I wish that she had more time,

558
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: as we talked about, to learn how to do it right,

559
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: and I wish that too. I think we were talking

560
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: about misconceptions, Shannon and I, and that the biggest misconception

561
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: about her is that she was hard, but that at

562
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: the same time it was the truth, but it's not

563
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: who she natively was. And I would say that's the

564
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: greatest misconception about me as well. We both just like

565
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: to laugh and soft underneath it all. She was really

566
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: good at being a star, better than me.

567
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: I didn't.

568
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: I was always kind of not great at that. I

569
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: was very impressed with her ability to be a star.

570
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: It was really cool to witness, and I had respect

571
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: for that. And I think people would be surprised to learn.

572
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: Probably that.

573
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: I was always very shy, very very shy, not a

574
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: natural born extrovert, and not somebody that ever wanted to

575
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: talk about dark things or put that on people and

576
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 1: have them look at their own darkness in their lives

577
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: and see where they could bring light to it. But

578
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: I am proud of that, and I am proud of collectively.

579
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: My goal was to see if I could make a

580
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: ten percent difference in the world, that people could think

581
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: differ differently, that they could look at each other differently,

582
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 1: that they could treat each other differently, that the dominant

583
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: narrative of this is how is always going to be worldwide.

584
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: I was like, why, I think I just see humans

585
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 1: as better and I know we can be better together

586
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: and not divided. And that was my own personal little goal.

587
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: I slapped a hashtag on it, but that was not

588
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: it for me. It was just about being better than

589
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: you had to be because I'd been told for a

590
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: long long time that I was, you know, not worth much,

591
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 1: that I was worthless, blah blah blah, the boring stuff

592
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: you know that gets said, the abusive stuff from home

593
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: and then out in the world. And I disagreed. I disagreed,

594
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 1: and I still do. You know, I think we grow,

595
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: we've become different than who we are who I was

596
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: in the late nineties. It's different than who I was

597
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: in the mid two thousands. You know, when I did

598
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: Charmed for so long, I really I was looking at

599
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: some fashion the other day and I got really confused.

600
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: I was like, why did I look a certain way?

601
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: And then after the show, like I think playing page

602
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: for so long, and I love that character. But I

603
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: had always kind of done more kind of artistic, strange

604
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: kind of jobs, not mainstream, and I was not.

605
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: I didn't.

606
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: My whole life was not like hanging out kind of

607
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: with mainstream people. It was always kind of fringe artists, weirdos,

608
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: unique writers, and there's kind of those who thought differently,

609
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: looked differently. Certainly my first boyfriend, I was like thirteen,

610
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: and this would be in the eight late eighties, Like

611
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: he had a long skirt and like.

612
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 2: Yeah so and makeup.

613
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: I just always like creative, strange looking, unique people. And

614
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: when I saw myself after Charmed, when I came out

615
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: of Charmed, all of a sudden, it was everybody had

616
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: to have a stylist and in Hollywood, and they had

617
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: to have a makeup artist. That was it was totally

618
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: different than when I started the show. And I hadn't

619
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: really done a lot of press during that show, just

620
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,439
Speaker 1: only for the show, not like red carpets or things

621
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: like that. So by the time I finished, all of

622
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: a sudden, you had to have a stylist. So all

623
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I'm being dressed like someone I'm not

624
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: by someone who I'm paying to make me look like

625
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: someone I'm not, not my taste, but I'd been un

626
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: charmed for so long, I'd actually forgotten who I was.

627
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: I had forgotten my own taste. And I regret that period.

628
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: I regret letting makeup artists put so much makeup on

629
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: me that I just looked like a kind of a

630
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: drag version of myself. And I regret. I regret being

631
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: lost for so long from myself. That's the one thing

632
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: with Shannon is I don't think she was ever lost

633
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: from herself.

634
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: Illness you lose.

635
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: Parts of yourself absolutely, And a few years ago I

636
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: went through something really horrific. I lost an extreme amount

637
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: of weight and a lot of physical suffering, an intense

638
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: amount of physical suffering, and I'm really proud to be

639
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: making it to the other side. And she was a

640
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: big part of that. She was a big part of that,

641
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 1: and inspiring and inspiring to me that she never lost

642
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: sight of who she was, She never let relationships in

643
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: her life go because of injury to her psyche or trauma.

644
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: She was just badass that way, and I honestly, I

645
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: think we could all do with a bit more of

646
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: that kind of loving badassery.

647
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 2: I don't think that's the word, but let's make it out.

648
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 1: I think the thing that Shannon and I were most

649
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: surprised about each other was just each other. Was that

650
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: away from everybody else, that we could be our soft selves.

651
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: What a gift.

652
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: I tried to participate in the episode right after she died,

653
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: and let's be clear where people were sending I think

654
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: voice memos and videos talking about her, and I tried

655
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: four different times, and I would have panic attacks each time.

656
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: I've never been good about shoving down emotionally, I feel

657
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: something cursed, curse, curse, I've never been good at that.

658
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 1: I definitely wear my heart on my sleeve. I couldn't

659
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: do it.

660
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 2: I couldn't.

661
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: I was not ready to to say was. So I

662
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 1: want to end this on a happy note, not crying.

663
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: But I know how many people miss her, and I

664
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: know how many are suffering. It's pretty amazing to have

665
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 1: been so loved in this life, and you know what,

666
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: she earned it and deserved it. So hats off to you,

667
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: Shannan Doherty, my friend, and that wherever you are, because

668
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: I feel you all around. I think you're definitely with

669
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: your mama, Rosa and all those you loved and your

670
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: beautiful dog, Bowie, and I know how much you loved

671
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: your fans. I don't like the word fans, but that's

672
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: the word we have to offer the people in your life,

673
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: those who didn't know your friends, that you had yet

674
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: to meet physically.

675
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 2: And seeing how many.

676
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: People loved you at these cons that these conventions was

677
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,320
Speaker 1: just so so awesome, so rad so cool.

678
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 2: For me, I.

679
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: Am focusing.

680
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: On getting better.

681
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,439
Speaker 1: You know, it takes a lot out of you when

682
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: you've been you know, kind of crucified by some parasites.

683
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: And I gave you know, I did my best. It

684
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: was David versus Goliath. I did my absolute best, and

685
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: I went to the mat for the people. Shannon laughed.

686
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: She's like, you're the only one and the whole thing

687
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: that didn't profit. And I'm like, yeah, I know, it

688
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: wasn't my goal. It would be nice, but it's not

689
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: my goal. And I'm getting back to.

690
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: Art.

691
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: I'm getting back to being the artist that I always

692
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: was and unique in different ways, and you know, getting

693
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: life from meeting people out on the road. And yeah,

694
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: I've got quite a few things up my sleeve. It'll

695
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: be cool. And I know that whenever they come out

696
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: that I'll be asking for her advice and her assistance

697
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: in guiding, and I asked for that now. So one

698
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: of the things that was very beautiful about Shannon was

699
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: her belief, her religious belief and it's not cool to

700
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: talk about, but I think it is actually and we

701
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: shared that, and so saying a prayer for her now,

702
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 1: lighting a candle for her always this is let's be clear.

703
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: And it's been an honor and privileged Shando, to speak

704
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: with you, for you, about you. Take care,