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Speaker 1: As media, Hello and Welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's another rerun episode because you know, each episode sort

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Speaker 1: of two parts, so this is the second part of

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Speaker 1: the rerun episode. And this one, much like the one

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Speaker 1: that you already heard on Monday, is about food out bombs.

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Speaker 1: I hope you like it. Hello and Welcome to Cool

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Speaker 1: People Did Cool Stuff or CPWDCCS for short, and by short,

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Speaker 1: I mean long because it takes at least as long

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Speaker 1: as say the acronym as does say the title of

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Speaker 1: the show. And one of my least favorite things is

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Speaker 1: people who try to correct me and say that acronyms

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Speaker 1: are only acronyms when they are pronounceable as words. So

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Speaker 1: I'm Mark kilj your host, and with me today is

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Speaker 1: the one and only Andrew T.

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Speaker 2: Andrew Good just gave dog two kills. Yeah right, everything's

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Speaker 2: going great.

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Speaker 1: On this day. That is definitely a different day from

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Speaker 1: last time, because we definitely don't just record both episodes

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Speaker 1: back to back most of the time. We've also got

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Speaker 1: our producer, Sophie. How are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Sophie?

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Speaker 3: Still doing well? Was doing well all those days ago

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Speaker 3: when we recorded part one?

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Speaker 1: Still well?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the days just fly by between recording part one

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Speaker 1: and part two.

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Speaker 3: Iy bye they do.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it just feels like I get up and get

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Speaker 1: a glass of water, yeah, and then that's it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah time.

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Speaker 1: We also have our editor, Ian, who's not on the call,

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Speaker 1: but later we'll be listening to everything we say, just

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Speaker 1: to twist our words around and make it sound like

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Speaker 1: we say are saying things that we're not saying. Like

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Speaker 1: I actually got the acronym correct at the beginning of

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Speaker 1: this episode, and then Ian switched it around to be wrong.

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Speaker 1: And our theme music was written by Unwoman and you

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Speaker 1: can check out the rest of her music if you

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Speaker 1: would like. So today we're talking about food nut bombs,

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Speaker 1: and we're talking about mutual aid. And if you didn't

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Speaker 1: listen to the first half of this episode, you are

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Speaker 1: missing out on us puntivacating about Catholic theology for a moment,

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Speaker 1: and also about why were or at least why I'm

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Speaker 1: not excited about people dressing up as homeless people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just so like a classic of

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Speaker 2: the genre. But I know, yeah, right, I know, so

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Speaker 2: the street theater kind of always has that element to it.

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Speaker 2: I guess, just.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, yeah, it's not a high art form, and

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Speaker 1: that is both its advantage and disadvantage, both artistically and politically.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so where we.

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Speaker 1: Last left our heroes. They're feeding people every week. They're

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Speaker 1: collecting donations from all over the city and delivering free

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Speaker 1: groceries everywhere because they think that people might need free groceries.

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Speaker 1: And then they're taking what's left over and making a

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Speaker 1: ton of free food and feeding people in the park.

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Speaker 1: And this is just a good thing to do. No notes,

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Speaker 1: the city is less convinced that it's a good thing

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Speaker 1: to do, or at least they don't like the other

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Speaker 1: stuff that these same activists are doing, like sticking their

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Speaker 1: noses into every protest and action that they possibly can,

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Speaker 1: fighting every good fight that they come across. So so

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Speaker 1: Keith McHenry, one of the founders of food nut Bombs,

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Speaker 1: the main person who's written all this history, who's actually

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Speaker 1: really cool most of the time. He doesn't like that

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Speaker 1: he's getting harassed by the city, Like he's getting harassed

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Speaker 1: a lot by the city. Apparently he's being kind of

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Speaker 1: threatened by the city. Don't totally know what that, don't

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Speaker 1: know exactly, So he fucks off, He fucks off to

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Speaker 1: San Francisco and Food Up Bombs Boston keeps going without him,

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Speaker 1: and in nineteen eighty seven he starts Food Up Bombs

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, and not long after, some people in Long Beach,

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Speaker 1: which I don't know if you all knew this, but

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Speaker 1: Long Beach is not actually the name of a beach

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Speaker 1: in LA. It turns out apparently it's its own city.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, Andrew, did you know that Los Angeles resident.

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Speaker 2: I think, I mean, I assume it is also a

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Speaker 2: beach though, right, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Is Los Angeles an actual city or is it just

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Speaker 1: a Hollywood fabrication?

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Speaker 2: Yes? So, yeah, definitely both. A is a ridiculous city

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Speaker 2: as far as that goes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, completely agree.

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Speaker 1: Okay, does cool Zone media have an official stance on

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Speaker 1: whether or not it's choe for me to spread conspiracy

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Speaker 1: theories like LA is a real place and not just

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Speaker 1: a Hollywood fabrication, because that's the conspiracy. Go for it.

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles is a real place. Stage wink at the

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Speaker 1: audience that they can't see I'm describing it.

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Speaker 2: Y'all can't see shit?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So, some people in Long Beach, legally

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Speaker 1: distinct from Los Angeles, started food not Bombs, and they

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Speaker 1: were nervous about stealing the name food nut Bombs, so

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Speaker 1: they started calling it bread not Bombs. But then they

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Speaker 1: got in touch with food nut Bombs and food nut

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Speaker 1: Bombs like, oh my god, we don't care that rules

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Speaker 1: use food not bombs, so they become food nut Bombs,

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Speaker 1: and food nut Bombs writes up a little how to

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Speaker 1: Get Started zine and they start passing it around. By

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two, there's thirty chapters. I had a conference

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Speaker 1: and decided on the three basic principles that I mentioned

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of Monday's episode, free veggie based food,

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Speaker 1: autonomous groups, nonviolence. And then they put out the first

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Speaker 1: edition of a book called food Nut Bombs that explains

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Speaker 1: the whole thing very direct titlers. I appreciate a good

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Speaker 1: direct title. So the group explodes in popularity after this.

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Speaker 1: Two years later, nineteen ninety four, six hundred people attended

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Speaker 1: international gathering in San Francisco, and they're representing the US, Canada, Mexico,

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Speaker 1: and various countries in Europe. And Okay, my theory is

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Speaker 1: that the only downside of the popularity food Net Bombs

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Speaker 1: is that we had to go through as activists the

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Speaker 1: whole generation of slogans with names that are like bikes

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Speaker 1: not bombs, homes not jails, food not lawn, solidarity not charity,

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Speaker 1: the something not something. I really appreciate that, y'all's is

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Speaker 1: something and something like. I feel like that's a really

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Speaker 1: positive development.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I wasn't around for the genesis of it. I

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Speaker 2: have no idea how any of that came to be,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, that is actually a good point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we were.

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Speaker 2: We were at a protest recently, and I hadn't been

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Speaker 2: involved in the early days of it when it was

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Speaker 2: mostly protest support for solidarity snacks mentioned last episode.

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Speaker 1: Which people can financially support, Yes, we.

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Speaker 2: Need uh or the fund is getting We only have

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Speaker 2: a couple more Saturdays left unless we get more funds,

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Speaker 2: which hopefully will come in. But I didn't realize that

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Speaker 2: the like cart that my friend used initially to start

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Speaker 2: the whole thing is like was like well known amongst people. Really,

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Speaker 2: people were like, Oh, it's the cart, know you, it's

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Speaker 2: the cart. That's cool, pretty amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So yeah, something and something that is my that

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Speaker 1: is my endorsement society.

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Speaker 2: It's a new a new riggule on the on the format.

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Speaker 1: We've progressed past the need for things, not the other

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Speaker 1: thing that said, all of those things that I named,

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Speaker 1: like home's not jails, homes not jails, rules, and I

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Speaker 1: actually almost did a whole thing about them, but I

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Speaker 1: ran out of time. They're like people who, well, they

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Speaker 1: do kind of what they say. They they open up

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Speaker 1: squads and.

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Speaker 2: Are great. It's often just the like, just another pass

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Speaker 2: at the copy, that's all usually.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally exactly what we need.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the main issue.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so that's why I would like to propose

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Speaker 1: a new something and something food and bombs for people

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Speaker 1: who want to kill the Czar of Russia. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you want to kill the Czar of Russia, it

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Speaker 1: has been proven empirically, through trial and error a lot

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Speaker 1: of air that the most effective way to kill the

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Speaker 1: Czar of Russia is with bombs. So just saying putting

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Speaker 1: that out there, please don't actually do that and then

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Speaker 1: say that I had anything to do with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so your mouth's shut.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, no fucking snitches and food and bombs, all right,

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Speaker 1: So food out bombs. It's getting super popular with people

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Speaker 1: who like to eat food, But there are people who

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Speaker 1: hate fun and freedom and people having nice things like

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Speaker 1: food who are waiting in the wings. And these people,

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Speaker 1: of course, best known as the government and the cops.

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Speaker 1: This conflict first arises in a serious way in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty eight in San Francisco. You've got this mayor. He's

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Speaker 1: super progressive. His name's Art Agnos. He ran on how

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Speaker 1: environmental and feminist and pro union and shit.

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Speaker 2: He was.

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Speaker 1: Spoiler. Okay, So he comes in during an intense period

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Speaker 1: of gentrification of San Francisco and it's starting to change

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Speaker 1: it into the yuppie hell hole we all know and

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Speaker 1: love today. He wants to solve the homelessness crisis, and

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Speaker 1: he starts off with some decent ideas about how to

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Speaker 1: solve the homelessness crisis. He wants to build low income housing,

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Speaker 1: which of course always gets complicated but is not inherently wrong.

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Speaker 1: He also makes sleeping bands, and then he revives a

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century law against lying down in public place with

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Speaker 1: camping gear. Because you know that the government's doing something

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Speaker 1: good when they find a law that has not been

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Speaker 1: enforced in one hundred years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, so you should look at the laws,

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Speaker 2: the other laws from that year and just see what else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, Like if this is who you're in company with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, can't be. These were not good legislators.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, they're like, and here's the law against the

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Speaker 1: following racial Oh wait no, Tessa.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, but that's not for a couple of years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's the sweet spot. That is the heyday

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Speaker 2: of the Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think San Francisco is like a started being all

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Speaker 1: the like like Chinese folks don't come here in the

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Speaker 1: late nineteenth century, I think. Yeah, and hooray, America has

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Speaker 1: a really cool history and present so wild the other thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, go ahead, Oh no, they're just recapping for

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Speaker 2: my brain, all right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, the laws back, Yeah, the laws back, and

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Speaker 1: he starts sending out cops two sweep parks full of

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Speaker 1: homeless folks. Fuck art agnos. He's not progressive, he claims it,

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Speaker 1: and and everyone I think starts seeing him as basically like, oh,

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Speaker 1: he's the classic democrat. He is a bait and switch.

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Speaker 1: He gets elected by progressives because the elector the people

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Speaker 1: who vote a manner are progressives, and then he serves

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Speaker 1: neoliberalism instead. Hooray and funup bomb shows up on the

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Speaker 1: scene around the same time as art Agnos and Fun

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Speaker 1: not Bombs. At the beginning, they weren't even trying to

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Speaker 1: be controversial. They actually applied for a permit and did

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Speaker 1: all of the paperwork and all that stuff. But the

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Speaker 1: local business owners were like, no, you can't have homeless

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Speaker 1: people eating food in public, as if there's some other

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Speaker 1: place for people who don't have houses to eat food.

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Speaker 1: So they pressure the city. The city denies the perbit,

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Speaker 1: and Food Out Bombs rolls over and accepts it and

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Speaker 1: ends as an organization. And wait, no, they say fuck it,

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Speaker 1: and they feed people food anyway, and they start to

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Speaker 1: get arrested for it, like a lot, Like in the

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Speaker 1: first few months, there's almost one hundred arrests. It becomes

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Speaker 1: an assembly line. Someone lines up to get a free meal.

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Speaker 1: Someone scoops food onto the plate of the person who's

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Speaker 1: there for a free meal, and the cops arrest the

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Speaker 1: person who serves the food. So the next server steps

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Speaker 1: up and feeds the next person in line and gets arrested.

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Speaker 1: And and they just do this right because they're not

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Speaker 1: afraid of civil disobedience. They do what's right, not what's safe.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also truly like you know, obviously, if you're

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Speaker 2: a fucking cop, you are the worst human being. But

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Speaker 2: like it's hard to have it more like in your face,

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Speaker 2: what a fucking discussing piece oftion you are? Yeah, that day,

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so the fight is about food, I guess

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Speaker 1: kind of, but not really. It's it's about more than that.

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Speaker 1: It's about who controls public space. Are the parks controlled

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Speaker 1: by the government or are they controlled by the people

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Speaker 1: who make use of the park. And the government, of

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Speaker 1: course tends to believe that they're the ones who get

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Speaker 1: to control the park, but I would argue, if you've

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Speaker 1: ever been to a park, you know that that's not

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Speaker 1: the case. The politics of a park are remapped daily

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Speaker 1: by the people who are there. Like there might not

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Speaker 1: be a sign up that says don't skateboard on the

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Speaker 1: basketball court, but like the basketball court most of the

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Speaker 1: time is for basketball players and who have their own

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Speaker 1: structures about who decides which courts are being used, and like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's I mean, parks are beautiful because there

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Speaker 1: are these informal organizational spots that happen daily all over

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Speaker 1: the world. I don't know, It's like one thing I

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Speaker 1: miss about living in cities and yeah.

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Speaker 2: Or just like like the like the yeah, the politics

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Speaker 2: of any like public place are like so interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's totally. You can make all the rules you want,

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Speaker 2: but those aren't the rules.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And you know, and people who have no

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Speaker 1: private space to return to, they're going to use public space,

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Speaker 1: which makes sense, right, And I've never had to deal

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Speaker 1: with homelessness. I used to be a traveling activist, but

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Speaker 1: that was my choice. Is very structurally different. But I

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Speaker 1: remember this one time I was taking a nap and

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Speaker 1: a van in a parking lot and it was really hot,

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Speaker 1: so I opened the doors, and I was just thinking

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Speaker 1: about how, like I could now get in trouble. It'd

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Speaker 1: be perfectly legal for me to park my van and

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Speaker 1: get out of it and leave my van in this

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Speaker 1: public space. But now that I'm sleeping in it, it's sketchy.

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Speaker 1: But even more than that, it seems so weird to

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Speaker 1: me that if I didn't have a car, I can't

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Speaker 1: just set my stuff down in this public space that

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Speaker 1: is meant for holding stuff, right, is a public spaceman

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Speaker 1: for people to leave their car and walk away. And

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Speaker 1: it just sort of like hits me.

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Speaker 2: It's a magic of a car yeah, used in a

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Speaker 2: certain way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And then even if you have a car, if

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Speaker 1: you don't have a private space to then take it

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Speaker 1: home to later, you're not usually not allowed to park

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Speaker 1: it anywhere. And it I don't know whatever, This isn't

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Speaker 1: news to anyone probably that there's a lot of laws

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Speaker 1: against homelessness that I wish I had the quote in

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Speaker 1: front of me, but I don't. There's that quote about

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Speaker 1: the law and it's it's uh, it's awesome equality. Uh

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Speaker 1: outlaws both the poor and the rich from like pissing

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Speaker 1: in the street. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: The law is like perfectly fair, like like no one

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Speaker 2: is permitted to sleep under the bridge or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: And La specifically, they've they've come out with all these

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Speaker 3: like where they pretend like it's not trying to do

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Speaker 3: that type laws where they're like like recently La City

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Speaker 3: Council approved an ordinance where it's like bike repair on

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Speaker 3: the street is now illegal and yeah, and then they

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Speaker 3: were like, what what do you mean this has not

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Speaker 3: this has nothing to do with you know, the unhoused communities.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: And and you know, anybody that that reads it is

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Speaker 3: like just be honest, Yeah, what are you what do

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Speaker 3: you what do you mean? And uh, you know, there's

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Speaker 3: there's so many different things. It's like putting boulders under

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Speaker 3: freeway underpasses and things like that. They're like, oh no,

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Speaker 3: it's to prevent and they make up some lights like yeah.

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Speaker 1: I saw a bat there once, and I don't want

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Speaker 1: people to get rabies. So that's why there's a boulder.

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Speaker 3: It's like, just treat people with dignity. Don't be so.

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Speaker 2: Politicians.

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Speaker 1: We'll just being gloves off and be like we want

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Speaker 1: our clean city. Actually, don't do that either. Don't do that.

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Speaker 1: That's nice, Like like oh.

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Speaker 2: I I prefer the open fascists, Like it's like sort

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Speaker 2: of it's glib, but yeah, don't tump them.

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Speaker 1: I know. I'm not looking forward to that stage.

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Speaker 2: It's like always like, oh I just prefer when people

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Speaker 2: are say what they really believe. It's like I promise.

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Speaker 1: You you don't yeah, totally, I know.

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Speaker 3: I know. We were talking about like Democrats that run

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Speaker 3: with these liberal policies and it's like, oh no, you're

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Speaker 3: a Republican and like that sucks. But but having like

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Speaker 3: the actual fascist run on fat like yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's like that, like, oh, I prefer it at least

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Speaker 2: I know where I stand. It's like, no, it's not

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Speaker 2: such of where you stand is like such a valueless thing.

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Speaker 1: And also like right, like when everyone had to be

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Speaker 1: quiet about them slightly more quiet about their racism and shit,

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Speaker 1: I think it made fewer young racists because if you

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Speaker 1: can't pass it on as this contagion, racism is a contagion.

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Speaker 2: So like, yeah, truly it is like like that, that

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Speaker 2: is like the thing it's like for all like the

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Speaker 2: you know, subconscious or like quiet racism, Like it truly

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Speaker 2: is better. It is just better. Yeah, a better society

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Speaker 2: where at least they have to experience some sort of

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Speaker 2: shame or second guessing themselves. Yeah, I'm not saying it's good,

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Speaker 2: but it's better than the alternative. It certainly is that

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Speaker 2: totally okay.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so all these people are getting arrested because

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Speaker 1: the city is real clear how they want to control space.

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Speaker 1: They're like, we control the parks. There's actually all these

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Speaker 1: quotes from different city council people that are like or

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Speaker 1: you know, from the city government that's like and cops

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Speaker 1: that are like, we control these parks, not these homeless

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Speaker 1: people and these anarchists or like they're making a political statement.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's like, yeah, of course, feeding people in

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Speaker 1: a society where there's people going hungry, dying in the

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Speaker 1: streets as a political statement, like this shouldn't be happening

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Speaker 1: is a political statement because the current political system isn't working.

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Speaker 2: Also like pathetic, that is the like, yeah, you're scared

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Speaker 2: of political statements?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally. So the civil disobedience works, and after

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Speaker 1: a few months, the city sits down to negotiate with

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Speaker 1: them and gives them a temporary permit. They have to

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Speaker 1: like move a couple blocks over to like get it

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Speaker 1: out of I think they're in Golden Gate Park at

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Speaker 1: this point. They have to go a few blocks away,

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Speaker 1: so they're like lesson public eye. But they drop all

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Speaker 1: the charges against all the arrestees and things are a

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Speaker 1: little better. But these radical homeless people. The next year

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Speaker 1: they set up an encampment outside of city Hall and

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Speaker 1: they have the coolest slogan ever for this exact thing,

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Speaker 1: which is, we're tired, we're hungry, we don't like the government.

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Speaker 1: Just say what you fucking mean. I want our side

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Speaker 1: to say what they fucking mean.

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Speaker 2: You know that's significantly better. Yeah, yeah, Well, the problem

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Speaker 2: is most of our side quote unquote our side yea

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean that that's true. Yep, that's that's the dark

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Speaker 2: side of things. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Ah, well, Fon up Bombs decides to go support that,

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Speaker 1: just to avoid lingering on that dark thought. Yea, up Bombs.

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Speaker 1: They decide to go support this homeless lead initiative. And

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Speaker 1: I believe it at this point a decent chunk of

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Speaker 1: the Food Up Bombs organizers are homeless folks themselves. I'm

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Speaker 1: not entirely certain about how all that works, but it's

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Speaker 1: more complicated than people might initially think. And they set

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Speaker 1: up a twenty four hour soup kitchen to feed the

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Speaker 1: protest camp. And this and the fact that some of

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Speaker 1: the organizers non violently occupy the mayor's office, gets the

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Speaker 1: whole encampment swept by the ostensibly progressive mayor, and Food

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Speaker 1: Up Bombs permit is revoked, and so Food up Bombs

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Speaker 1: is like, all right, fuck it, and they go back

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Speaker 1: to the park no longer a couple of blocks away,

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Speaker 1: and they just they're not going to be swept out

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Speaker 1: from public eye and they're just going to feed people.

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Speaker 1: And over the next seven years, this fight goes on

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Speaker 1: for seven years, over two administrations, over a thousand activists

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Speaker 1: gets sighted and or arrested for feeding people in the park.

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Speaker 1: Nuns and priests joined them at one point. My favorite

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Speaker 1: was that lawyers of the National Lawyers Guild showed up

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Speaker 1: shout out to the National Lawyers Guild. They're great. They

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Speaker 1: decided to serve food and get arrested. The cops are like, no,

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Speaker 1: we're good. I just don't arrest the National Lawyers Guild

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Speaker 1: because that's who they're actually afraid of as lawyers.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they used to be. I was at the

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Speaker 2: just for a part of and I wasn't able to

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Speaker 2: be around for like the most violent parts of the disgusting,

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Speaker 2: hopefully soon to be gone. City council member Mitchell Ferrell

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Speaker 2: ordered the LAPD to sweep Echo Park here and truly,

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Speaker 2: I mean it was one of those like right like

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Speaker 2: this this felt like a new thing. I'm not super

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Speaker 2: experienced with stuff, but like the LAPD like first of all,

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Speaker 2: all like you know, performing acts of violence now with

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Speaker 2: like everything recorded, but like actively going after journalists and

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Speaker 2: the like the green hat national right folks, targeting them

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Speaker 2: in some truly fascist ship and then setting up a

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Speaker 2: uh literal concentration camp at Echo Park, Like they fence

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Speaker 2: it off and you could not You didn't. You weren't

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Speaker 2: free to leave or enter.

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Speaker 1: They're just going to concentrate all the people into one

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Speaker 1: place so that they can be handled. It was fucking

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Speaker 1: not a concentration park. It was just concentration of people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was, it was you know, it

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Speaker 2: was so fucking disgusting. Yeah, it's unforgettable.

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Speaker 3: Major media wouldn't even like really cover it because they're cowards.

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Speaker 3: But it's like it was being live streamed on Twitter

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Speaker 3: and you're seeing it and you're like, yeah, this this

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Speaker 3: is a concentration camp in the middle of Los Angeles

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Speaker 3: being run by our by the LAPD, by actual fascist

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Speaker 3: Mitchell Ferrel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: If you're listening to this and you're an LA voter

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Speaker 2: and there's or if you're not, actually there's any way

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Speaker 2: to contribute to the UGO Sodo Martinez campaign in any

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Speaker 2: way to unseat open fascists, Mitchell Feral, please do that please. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I keep running when I

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Speaker 1: was like researching this. At one point, I like got

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Speaker 1: really frustrated about halfway through writing all this, where I

421
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Speaker 1: was like, it's also quaint. I know that they were

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Speaker 1: fighting for really hard things and it was really hard,

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Speaker 1: but I'm just like, oh my god, like just even

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Speaker 1: the what you're saying about, you know, the National Lawyer's

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Speaker 1: Guild actually gets arrested now right in the exact same situation,

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Speaker 1: and just like, yeah, I'm really not trying to downplay

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Speaker 1: the incredible amount of work that Funabum's well, that still

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Speaker 1: does and does now in this new context. So I'm

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Speaker 1: really not trying to knock it, but it is it's

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Speaker 1: it's hard to see how far we've not come in

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Speaker 1: terms of the move towards.

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Speaker 2: D Yeah, I mean I think it is also like

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Speaker 2: like probably the at least some version of this activism.

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Speaker 2: The stuff that I felt like I saw a lot

435
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 2: in the nineties was a lot of people insulated by

436
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 2: their whiteness from some of the worst things. But that

437
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 2: is like part of you know, it goes both ways too,

438
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 2: because it is like part of civil disobedience is like

439
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 2: civil disobedience only works if your oppressors have any kind

440
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 2: of conscience, and like, yeah, it's just like cops have

441
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 2: more of a conscience for like white teens than you know,

442
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 2: your average on house person. Your average black person, etc.

443
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 2: Like so there is some version of that, but then

444
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: that becomes like sort of this white saviory vibe that

445
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 2: can go the wrong way. It could turn into people

446
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 2: encouraging street theater where you dress up like the homeless

447
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 2: because you don't think about what that means. Yeah, I

448
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 2: don't know, sorry, I'm I'm just like on that little tangent. No. No,

449
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: it was like scary.

450
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 1: Now, that's such as to me, Like.

451
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 2: Like during the George Floyd uprising, it was just like, oh,

452
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 2: the lapd is like beating middle class white women in

453
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 2: broad daylight now, which feels like an escalation. Yeah, Like

454
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 2: you know, at least typically under they they in the past,

455
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: it feels like they would at least wait till sundown. Yeah.

456
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 3: To do that, they were like actively kettling people at

457
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 3: like on a on a Tuesday at like one pm

458
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 3: and then like and then like beating them on camera.

459
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

460
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was like pretty remarkable, honestly.

461
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

462
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

463
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 1: And you know what else is remarkable? Oh my god.

464
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 2: Market.

465
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: I was like, are you going to do that?

466
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 2: Because it's time.

467
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: The concept of dogs. Yeah, dogs, and oh we have

468
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: a new advertiser that I'm very excited about that we'll

469
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: be running an ad. It would actually be the first

470
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: host voiced ad that we'll be running on this network.

471
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: And that is the concept. Shut the fuck up.

472
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 2: Shut the fuck up.

473
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, shut the fuck up, don't talk to cops. That

474
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: is the concept. Oh smart, Yeah, no, sorry, I wasn't

475
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: on you all to shut the fuck up saying that

476
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: when you get arrested.

477
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,239
Speaker 2: Shut the fuck up. Oh there's that too, But some

478
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: of y'all do need also shut the fuck up.

479
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: Here's some ads, Hi, Margaret Kiljoy. Here, boy, the world

480
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 1: sure is a mess right now. Huh. Seems like every

481
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: day there are more and more reasons to get out

482
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: into the streets and protest. That's why when I get arrested,

483
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: there's only one strategy. I trust, I shut the fuck up.

484
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: I say, I would like to remain silent, I would

485
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: like to talk to my lawyer, and then I shut

486
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: the fuck up. In the United States of America, it's

487
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: constitutionally protected and recommended by the National Lawyers Guild. That's

488
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: s h U t thch f U c k up.

489
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: Once again, that's s h U T thh E f

490
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: U s up. Because you can't talk yourself out of custody,

491
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: but you can talk yourself into a conviction.

492
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 4: Providing identification to law enforcement required in some states and

493
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 4: situations giving them an address expedient in most circumstances. Never

494
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 4: discuss the events leading to arrest with anyone except your lawyer, doctor,

495
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 4: or therapist. Posting pictures of protests and actions on social

496
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 4: media may lead to complications. If you have already talked

497
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 4: to cops or experienced confusion about talking to cops, call

498
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 4: your attorney immediately, as these may be signs of more

499
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 4: serious legal problems. The concept of not talking to cops

500
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 4: does not provide legal advice, and the foregoing statements are

501
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 4: for informational purposes only. If you have specific legal questions,

502
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 4: consult an attorney.

503
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: And we are back and we are thinking about the escalation.

504
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: And also, yeah, how like people who actually ag are

505
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: more heavily marginalized by society have been dealing with this

506
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: shit and it wasn't as like quaint even back, you know. Yeah,

507
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: so that is a really good point.

508
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: I mean it's tough. Yeah, it just goes all ways,

509
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 2: like it's like yes, absolutely doing you know a good

510
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: thing on the balance, and like certainly there the allies,

511
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 2: but Yeah, it's just it is weird, like the using

512
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,959
Speaker 2: essentially you're on privilege to advance goals, but sort of

513
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: still you have that privilege and you can not extend

514
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 2: that privilege, which is always like the precarious thing too.

515
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I mean I think that has a

516
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: lot to do with like where you're taking direction from, right, Like, yeah,

517
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: you know, if I'm going to be protesting in a

518
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: context in which I'm attempting to use my white privilege,

519
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 1: it usually ideally would be in the context of like

520
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: listening to you know, the direction and the overall strategy

521
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: that is being proposed by the group that I'm attempting

522
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: to be in solidarity with.

523
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 2: You know.

524
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and which is of course also really complicated because

525
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: people are like people of color are not monolith even

526
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: among individual you know, like identities, and so you know,

527
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: you people choosing who they listen to.

528
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: It.

529
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: Well, this is why I don't run a politics podcast

530
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: as a shit gets messy. I just talked about history.

531
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 2: No exactly. I mean I think that's like it's both

532
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 2: messy and like ugly, and and you know the reality

533
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: is there is no like right.

534
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, way, totally yeah, Yeah, I think that that, And

535
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: that's one of the things I love about movements that

536
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: are so like like diverse in terms of ideologies, in

537
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: terms of ideas, in terms of strategies tactics, Like when

538
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: we can work to coordinate different strategies and tactics together

539
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: and different people coming from different positions, I feel like

540
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: that's where we are our strongest personally. So the next

541
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: mayor San Francisco, speaking of people getting a little more

542
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: glove off, the next pair of San Francisco was the

543
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: chief of police who orchestrated the crackdown on na pumps right,

544
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: and a runs an anti homeless camp on a he

545
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: runs on the anti homelesslatf and things just heat up

546
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: for food ut bombs. But of course also everywhere in

547
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: the city with this guy, and over the course of

548
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: the fight, the city removes all the benches from the park,

549
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: so folks have to eat sitting on the ground, which

550
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: didn't stop anyone from eating food. You'll be shocked to know.

551
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: Then they put up signs everywhere that said serving food

552
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: without a permit is a crime. These were probably roughly

553
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: as effective as skateboarding is a crime signs.

554
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like it really is, like what like

555
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: what society are you in? Yeah, you know that that

556
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 2: that is your like priority. That's say that means taxpayers

557
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: spend money on this. It's like is this really who

558
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: you fucking are? I mean it it is. Yeah, it's

559
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: gross to think about, like a be that person.

560
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: And the other thing they spent tax payer money on

561
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: was to remove the fountain from the park because I

562
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: guess though it's you know, all right, well they're gonna eat,

563
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: they better not be somewhere with like pretty things, better

564
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: not enjoy it, you know, have access to a water

565
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: feature anyway, So Food not Bomb starts getting it comes

566
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: up with different tactics to deal with all this harassment. Right,

567
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: people get sick of people of the cops stealing their food,

568
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: so they start having decoy food buckets where they put

569
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: a third of the food in the bucket and they

570
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: go up and they set up, and the cops steal

571
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: the bucket and then they're like, ah, shucks, you stole

572
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: our food, and the cops leave. So then they bring

573
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: out the next third of a bucket and they serve

574
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: some people and then the cops steal the food, and

575
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: then they bring out a final third in a third bucket.

576
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: And the flyer that they distribute all over the world

577
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: being like, here's how to deal with it. If the

578
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: cops are stealing your food, is like cops are too

579
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: embarrassed to come back the third time to steal the food.

580
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: And I don't know whether it's they're too embarrassed that

581
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: they got like Looney Tunes tricked, or if they're just

582
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: embarrassed about the fact that it really hits home about

583
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: the fact that they are like just stealing food. That's

584
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: what their job is, is steal food from the mouths

585
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: of hungry people. And Keith McHenry, the founder guy that

586
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: you know I have the most information about, he was

587
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: arrested ninety four times between nineteen eighty eight and nineteen

588
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: ninety four, which is more than once a month for

589
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: seven years straight. As he puts it, he was framed

590
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: up on three other felonies during that time it was

591
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: facing twenty five years in prison. I have no counter

592
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: argument to this. And during that same time period, for example,

593
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: the FBI had just covered up the car bombing of

594
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: two environmentalists, Judy Barry and Darryl Churney. Yeah, and the

595
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: FEDS might have even done the car bombing, but the

596
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: thing that's been proven in court is that they at

597
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: least covered it up, right, So this is the so

598
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: here I am being like, ahaha, different times, Like actually, no,

599
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: people are getting car bombed by the Feds probably yeah,

600
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, I mean it's just like it probably is.

601
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: I mean they are the same people. Yeah, they're worse

602
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: and they have the Internet now, yeah, but like they're

603
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: the same people that have always been doing this shit.

604
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah it is different. There was more innocent

605
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: and less innocent. Yeah, you know, in different ways. Different

606
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, just different, is honestly the Yeah.

607
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not any less murderous in service of right,

608
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 2: you know, right of their their little society.

609
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, just their tactics changed in different situations.

610
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

611
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: So he spends a total of Keith mccannery spends a

612
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: total of five hundred days in jail during this seven

613
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: year time, just with all of these minor rests for

614
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: serving food, and the harassment started getting so bad that

615
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: Amnesty International was wrote a letter to San Francisco saying

616
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: that they were considering designating food not Bombs activists as

617
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: prisoners of conscience, basically saying like, if you if you

618
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: don't stop harassing people based on their political beliefs, that

619
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: we're going to adopt them as prisoners are conscious you

620
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: will be breaking international law, and we will fight for

621
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: their unconditional release, and eventually, two mayors later, food ut

622
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: bombs just kind of wins by default because the city

623
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: stops war against them and they keep serving food. And

624
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: thirty years after all this stuff, they're still serving food,

625
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: and they still serve food all over the world. The

626
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: current best guests there's no official registry of food out bombs.

627
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: The best guess is that there's around five hundred cities

628
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: in the US with chapters and about five hundred more

629
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 1: cities around the world, and food up bombs of activists

630
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: have been spied on by the FEDS and arrested by

631
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: cops time and time again. Literally, while I was researching this,

632
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: I messaged Sophia since I figured this out. I ran

633
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 1: across a memo from the FBI about how they were

634
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: spying on Denver food out bombs in two thousand and four,

635
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: which is when I was in Denver cooking food out bombs,

636
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: and it stuck out to me because they're describing how

637
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: they were trying to get information out of my neighbors

638
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: like our house ran one day of cooking, and different

639
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: houses across the city ran different days of it, and

640
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: some punks like some it's like punks did it some days,

641
00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: students did it other days. Whatever. And so the document

642
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: points out that while they arrested AID activists at this

643
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: food not Bomb's house, none of them nor any of

644
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: the other people at the residence that the FBI was

645
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: trying to question, gave any information to the investigation, which

646
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: rules and is how you all should handle interactions with

647
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: the federal police. You tell them that you have representation

648
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: and that ask for their card, and that is the

649
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 1: only information you give them. You don't lie to them

650
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: and you don't tell them anything anyway. So after the

651
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: fall of the Soviet Union, let's just jump gears really quick.

652
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: Who ut bomb springs up all over Russia and the

653
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: former Communist block Poland, Ukraine, Serbia, Croatia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria,

654
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 1: and Russia all have or had chapters, and the stakes

655
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: there are a bit higher than they've been for a

656
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 1: lot of the US chapters. In November two thousand and five,

657
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: a who Nut bombser in Saint Petersburg, teamer Kachavera was

658
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: hanging out at a cafe a few hours after serving

659
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: food in the park. A boneheads, which are Nazi skinheads,

660
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 1: swarmed him chanting and this will be a familiar chance

661
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: to Americans. They were chanting anti Antifa Nazis were strained

662
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: Teamer while another another Nazi, who was only fourteen years old,

663
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 1: stabbed him to death five times in the neck. And

664
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: Timer was an anarchist and a philosophy student. He was

665
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: twenty years old and he played in a punk band

666
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,479
Speaker 1: called Sandinista. Two years later, Bonehead swarmed Food not Bombs

667
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: in Saint Petersburg again, and if I'm reading the various

668
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: articles correctly, they swarmed the actual feeding itself. This time

669
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: they attacked and another Food not Bombs are Ivan Yellen.

670
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 1: He survives, but he got stabbed twenty times for serving

671
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: food in the park. And while he was recovering in

672
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,959
Speaker 1: the hospital, dozens of his friends showed up to donate

673
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 1: blood to the hospital. Some came from as far away

674
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: as Moscow, which is like an eight hour train ride.

675
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: Basically people coming in solidarity to offer their blood. I'm

676
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 1: sure they had plenty of blood. I hope the people

677
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: showed up then gave blood to other people in the hospital,

678
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: which is an inch escalation of mutual aid.

679
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

680
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 1: And then on the fourth of February two thousand and seven,

681
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: Nazis went for the ultimate irony and they bombed a

682
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: food not bombs. No one gets killed they I just

683
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,720
Speaker 1: want to like say that upfront so there's less tension

684
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: around that. They hide a bomb in the flower stall,

685
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: and it's I hate to laugh at this. It's said

686
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: to go off at the time of the feeding, but

687
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,479
Speaker 1: the jokes on the Nazis because the feeding was run

688
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: by punks and so they were late, and so the

689
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: bomb goes off before anyone arrives, and no one was hurt,

690
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: and they fed people as usual on the day that

691
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: Nazis tried to bomb them. I said at the very

692
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: beginning where I was like, in this time, no one

693
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: gets killed by Nazis, and actually one person gets killed

694
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: by Nazis in this Yeah, And I remember.

695
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: I didn't, I didn't. I should have probably known where

696
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 2: I was going. I was. I was more chuckling at

697
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 2: the you know where anti Edtifa.

698
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're just fascist that, Yeah, you're regular fuss

699
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: terrible Yeah, yeah, no, I know, totally yeah, And I

700
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 1: remember when this happened, it hit us all kind of hard,

701
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: and it was like kind of sobering, right because we

702
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: would get harassed for serving food nut bombs and like

703
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: a couple of times I've served food ut bombs or

704
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: eating it with like riot police all around and helicopters

705
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,439
Speaker 1: overhead and all that shit. But fucking Russia, they're getting

706
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: bombed for it, and and the attacks were focused. It's

707
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: the same focus in the US. It's it's about who

708
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: controls spaces. Right in the US, it's the government is like,

709
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: we control the parks. And in Russia at the time,

710
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: the Nazis were like, no, we control the parks. And

711
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: so it was they were attacking the the Saint Petersburg

712
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: DIY leftist an anarchist punk scene which organized against the

713
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: fascists under the name Antifa, And so the regular fu

714
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: are not fans of Antifa, and so you know they.

715
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 2: No, it's but it's just like it's like again, if

716
00:37:54,800 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 2: you're murdering people for like handing out food, it's I mean,

717
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 2: but that's like such a like fascist through line, you know.

718
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 2: It's just like and that is a little you know,

719
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: we talked, I talked about it. It's like me not understanding,

720
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 2: you know. I was sort of like I guess I

721
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 2: was still also just like not not not clear, but

722
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 2: like when I was talking about just the small amount

723
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 2: of mutual aid stuff I've been doing over the last

724
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 2: couple of years, and like the like relative paranoia I

725
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 2: feel that, you know, these these you know, patriots like

726
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 2: have and I think the thing that is it's like

727
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 2: because my in my mind is like, what are they

728
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 2: going to do kill us for handing out you know,

729
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 2: granola bars? And the answer is yes.

730
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, it depends on how far things go, but.

731
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but the answer is yes, yeah. Like so

732
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 2: so that's like hard to internalize. And I think that

733
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 2: is It's like because often you like come to this

734
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 2: sort of thing with like the energy of this is

735
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 2: like a social thing, yeah, or at least it's part

736
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 2: of it. And it's like, yeah, very hard to not

737
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 2: you know, to realize that like yes, like we are

738
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 2: like doing something, but it's like we're actually there is

739
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 2: an element of peril to this that is hard to

740
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: like kind of like really realize sometimes, like right, this

741
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 2: shit is like real yeah, and like even though it

742
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: shouldn't be again totally it's literally just handing out fucking

743
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 2: snacks and like hand sanity.

744
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and almost every single food not bombs feeding that

745
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: happens worldwide is pleasant with good mediocre to good food

746
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: depending on the cooks and a good environment and safe,

747
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: you know, and like, and I definitely wouldn't discourage people.

748
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: You know, if you're in Moscow right now, it's a

749
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: lot more complicated, right, but you know, and things will

750
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: get more complicated here as things happen. But but that's going

751
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: to be true. It's going to be true wherever you are.

752
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, But it is also like, yeah, like elements of

753
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 2: like there's always something you can do totally. So it's like,

754
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 2: you know, if you get to the point where it

755
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: feels perilous to be there in person, there's things you

756
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 2: can do. Yeah, it feels perilous to like be with

757
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 2: a collective group of people cooking or organizing or whatever,

758
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 2: there's things you can do totally. Yeah, something there's always more.

759
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 2: You can always be doing more than you've been doing.

760
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: And like, and it can always be something that plays

761
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: to your strengths and it doesn't have to be something

762
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: that is like you can think about what you are

763
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: willing to risk and then think about how you can

764
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: go about meeting your own needs and still engage, you know,

765
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: and like yeah, just being the person to call like

766
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 1: food co ops or big chain organic stores or regular

767
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: stores and be like, hey, I'm working with you know, food,

768
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: not bombs or if they're burned on that make up

769
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: some other I don't know legality what I'm saying, find

770
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: ways to get donations of food, and like I think,

771
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: you know.

772
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, you probably can just not name the yeah, yeah

773
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 2: place I suppose, but yeah, yeah, yeah, there's always something.

774
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that I was doing also during

775
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 2: the George Floyd uprising was like trying to help out

776
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 2: with just listening to the police scanner. Yeah totally, which

777
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 2: was also illuminating in that I was like, oh, these

778
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 2: people are both Like it was wild listening to cops

779
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: be legitimately sound afraid. I mean, they're fucking fascist cowards.

780
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it really was.

781
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, you're scared of like I know

782
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 2: who's in that crowd, Like, yeah, I'm fucking scared of them. Yeah,

783
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,479
Speaker 2: like you have guns, you're the violent one.

784
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's I mean, because fascism is a coward's ideology,

785
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: like it's that's why they only attack when they're in

786
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: big groups. That's why, you know, like yeah, and when

787
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: there's a fair fight, they back down. It seems like

788
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: not universally, but it Yeah, and a lot of what

789
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: I'm reading not even a fair fight. Yeah, but I

790
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: mean you see it like in Portland. Yeah, and like

791
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: all like if you just like can stand up and

792
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: be organize, the fucking proud boy type folks just like

793
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: they're too stupid and weak and scared.

794
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean it is the difference in the ideologies.

795
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 2: It's like they don't have each other's backs.

796
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

797
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 2: So so the reason they need like the swarm is

798
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 2: because it's they're they're so brittle, because they are so cowardly.

799
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's literally just I'm afraid

800
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: of the other. That is the it seems to me

801
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: is like the core of fascism, you know. And yeah,

802
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: so speaking of people standing up to fascism, this isn't

803
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: an ad break. This is just you're talking more about

804
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: some of these Russian food up bombsters what it could

805
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: be dogs stand up to fascists. Uh, some of them,

806
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 1: some of them. Okay, No, that's a hard one.

807
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: Famously a bunch of them love fascists.

808
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well probably a lot of a lot of

809
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: our most famous dogs are pro fascists, you know, all right,

810
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: all right, fine.

811
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 2: Regrettably, I'm just saying, yeah, no, no more dogs more

812
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 2: dogs are cops than are not cops.

813
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: I know my dog.

814
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,439
Speaker 2: More dogs are not cops, but more famous dogs are cops.

815
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's riot dogs all over Greece and various

816
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: countries in South America, Central America. Who who hate cops?

817
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: All right, well, then here's some unrelated advertisements, because we

818
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: live in a capitalist hell world. Yes, and we are back,

819
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: and we are talking about in Russia and continues in Russia,

820
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: I believe to this day. During the invasion, at the

821
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: beginning of the current invasion of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Moscow,

822
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: food not Bombs put out a hasty translation of a

823
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: statement which is in order to keep and increase the

824
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: benefits in their hands. The government declares wars who will

825
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 1: collect their intestines with their hands, who will have their

826
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: arms and legs torn off by explosions, whose families will

827
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: bury their children. Of course, all of this does not

828
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: apply to the ruling minority. We must resist the militaristic

829
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: regime and the war it is waging with all of

830
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 1: our might. Spread information among your comrades, fight as best

831
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: you can. And then they've been doing that. A bunch

832
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: of food Nut Bombs activists were arrested in February and

833
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: anti war demonstration. You can see the video. It's literally

834
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 1: just some people walking down the street with a banner

835
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: and cops grabbing them off the street and arresting them.

836
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: And then in March, out of food not bombs, feeding

837
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: unknown assailants. They might have been cops, they might have

838
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: been just piece of shit warmongers. Kidnapped four people out

839
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 1: of food nut Bombs, threw them into a car, drove

840
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: them out into the forest, said they were going to

841
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: make them dig their own graves them off one by

842
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: one and beat the shit out of them with police

843
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: batons and seriously wounded several of them. I believe all

844
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: of them, but I'm not sure. Belarus Food Nut Bombs

845
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: has been going since two thousand and six, but they

846
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: had to suspend operations in January twenty twenty two because

847
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: of the repression there of the anarchist movement. Because Belarus

848
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: is boot looking for Putin and that things have been

849
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: going real hard for them there. But that was a

850
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: terrible bummer note for me to end this part about

851
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: food ut bombs on there's actually one more story that's

852
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: related to mutual Aid than I want to say, but

853
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 1: if you have a way to quickly turn this around

854
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: on a positive note about food nut bombs. I'm looking

855
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: at how I wrote the script and I'm not proud.

856
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think the thing that is like

857
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 2: it's this scary part, but it is the real part,

858
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 2: which is like again, I came to mutual Aid mainly

859
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 2: because you know, the world, but also like it was

860
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 2: like honestly just for my own mental health, like such

861
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: a like important thing. I wound up being to like

862
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 2: do something and it's like, yeah, there's a social element

863
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 2: to it, but like not that it's good that this

864
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 2: is this is a political action that is like violently

865
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 2: repressed by literal fascists. But I think to the extent

866
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: that there's a silver lining for like an American audience

867
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 2: is like this is like you are part of something

868
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:30,720
Speaker 2: actually powerful when you do things like this that again,

869
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 2: it's it's that like you know, you look around and

870
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 2: like for me, I'm like God, everyone seems here, seems

871
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: really fucking paranoid, and it's like they're not, but they're

872
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:44,439
Speaker 2: not that you know, it's still like like at least

873
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 2: there's that power there of realizing that you are like

874
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: really doing something. Yeah, can be helpful, but yeah, it's

875
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 2: fucking hard obviously.

876
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: Now that makes sense. I mean, like, we live in

877
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: a society that tries to deny us agency, right, that's

878
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: like one of its main structural ideas, And and here's

879
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: just a really good, almost always very safe way to

880
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 1: claim agency. And also this the society we're living in

881
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: right now is trying to even the society at large,

882
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: but chunks of it are trying to disappear people and

883
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: more and more people are trying are starting to fall

884
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 1: through the cracks. And it's not a coincidence from my

885
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: point of view that this is happening as other things

886
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: in the world are getting worse. And and here's a

887
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: way that you can help stop that. You know, there's

888
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: that there's that fucking poem about the you know verse

889
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,359
Speaker 1: they came for and then they came for. Yeah, and

890
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: like great, like give people give stuff to people who

891
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: are homeless, Like that's good. That is part of that

892
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: that is part of stopping that chain of events that

893
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: does lead to you and I, you know, like yeah,

894
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: you know.

895
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 2: The other like purely selfish way, if you want to

896
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 2: look at it this way, it's like like we're talking

897
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 2: about like sort of like in vaguely like militaristic terms.

898
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 2: But the thing is, it's like, again, I am past

899
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: probably my brick throwing days, but like.

900
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: Why do you keep winking when you say that? Though,

901
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: Oh sorry anyway.

902
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:24,720
Speaker 2: No, I really am.

903
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 3: I just like even like even like very funny though.

904
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 2: Carrying carrying a folding table the other day, I was like, god,

905
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:35,240
Speaker 2: damn it.

906
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like.

907
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 2: I just can't. Yeah, like you here's why not because

908
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 2: I'm like it's it's I'm just like you. You don't

909
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 2: want me. I'm not I'm not best used on brick

910
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 2: throwing duty on either side of things. It's just like not,

911
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 2: it's not good for anyone. However, it was a thing

912
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 2: where I was like during like some of the darkest

913
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 2: and the like perpetual up coming darkest moment, like the

914
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: darkest moments that come is that like these motherfuckers who

915
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 2: are like the paranoid people who are just like you know,

916
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 2: in my eyes, paranoid people who are like handing out

917
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 2: caranola bars, et cetera. Like when if and when like

918
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 2: shit really goes bad, like this is the network, this

919
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 2: is the thing that becomes a resistance or whatever or

920
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 2: like if not these people, then something like it or

921
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 2: something adjacent to it. Yeah, or like and you know

922
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 2: it's real because these people have been out on the

923
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 2: street doing shit, spending their own like energy and money

924
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 2: and like time, Like if they were narks, it would

925
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 2: be you know, they deserve it because if they put

926
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: in yeah, totally this shit. So it's like, yeah, fine,

927
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 2: send me to jail. It's great.

928
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this old earth burst thing where earth bursters

929
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: would be like Okay, once you figure out who the

930
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: cop is in the group, you don't you don't kick

931
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: them out. You just have them take all the notes

932
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: and you just like make sure that they pay for everything.

933
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: I am not recommending this as a strategy. I am

934
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: not trying to opine about how groups should deal with infiltration.

935
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 1: I am merely relaying a thing that has happened in

936
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 1: the past.

937
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 2: No, truly, Well, but yeah, it's like just the element

938
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 2: of like you know, yeah, just again on a purely

939
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 2: selfish level. It is like, these are the folks that

940
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 2: I having demonstrated having their back, they're going to have

941
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 2: my back. Yeah, and the people you meet, I don't know.

942
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 2: It's like, I mean, you know, if that's another way

943
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 2: to look at it, it's like you're just building the

944
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 2: structures that hopefully we will never need in a real way,

945
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 2: but what we already use them in a real way.

946
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 1: And like I've always been about, you know, I think

947
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,720
Speaker 1: that this dichotomy between the self interest in the community

948
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: interest is a false dichotomy because being part of a

949
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 1: healthy community that takes care of people rules for me

950
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: as an individual, Like I love food not bombs because

951
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: I ate it as so much and it let me

952
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: not have a job and just run around and hop

953
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: freight trains badly and mostly failed at that, and hitchhike

954
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: around and like live the life I wanted to lead

955
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 1: in my twenties, right, And and also yeah, building these

956
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: networks is like one of the only ways that I can, Like,

957
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not doing the work of building these

958
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: networks now, I just run a podcast and read history books.

959
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: Also rules, But I don't know, being part knowing these

960
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: networks exist is part of literally how I sleep as

961
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: well as I do as a trans woman in the

962
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: current environment.

963
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so yeah, it's like it's like, at

964
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 2: least you kind of have a sense that, look, you

965
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 2: have a chance, and you have people who are like

966
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 2: organized and doing something, and look, yeah, not every thing

967
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 2: is going to succeed. Mostly it doesn't, but yeah, you

968
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 2: know it's something.

969
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well that does not actually naturally lead to

970
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 1: But I want to pivot to talk about the final,

971
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 1: final part of this whole thing, which is I bet

972
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: you're wondering. I know a lot of people at home

973
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 1: are wondering, what do gay birds have to do with

974
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: mutual aid? And I have an answer for you, because

975
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: this is going to be a story that talks about

976
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,240
Speaker 1: the origins of mutual aid as a as a term

977
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,879
Speaker 1: at least, and it brings us back to Russia, where

978
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: the land where the government says there are no gay people.

979
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: I don't know whether they say or not there's any

980
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: gay birds. But so I can't remember the name of

981
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: the magazine, and I'm so annoyed. I spent so long

982
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: trying to find this magazine. But I read this magazine

983
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 1: in two thousand and four it was about gay birds

984
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: and mutual aid. And I wish I had a time

985
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: machine so I could go back and tell younger me that, like,

986
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: one day, all of these things that I read that

987
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: give me my ideas, I'll actually have to cite them

988
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: and source them. I would not have believed you. And

989
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 1: I find this magazine in a trash can and it's

990
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: about science. It's a science magazine I don't remember the

991
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: name of it, and has an article and it's talking

992
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 1: about scientists are finally starting to talk about gay animals

993
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: in the early turn of the millennia, the early aughts,

994
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 1: and and they're trying to figure out what the fuck

995
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: it means for evolutionary science. So so this brings us

996
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,720
Speaker 1: to Darwin, and I promise we'll come back to the birds.

997
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 1: You might have heard of this guy, this guy named

998
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 1: Charles Darwin. Sophie's nodding. Sophie's heard of this guy. And

999
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: he's this rich white British science dude who was like,

1000
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: whoa evolution? And then more than that, he was like,

1001
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: whoa natural selection is about? Drives evolution? And he wrote

1002
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: a book about it. And the book is called whoa

1003
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: Natural Selection? The Origin of the Species or something like that,

1004
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: and he wrote direct quotes yeah damn dog Yeah. And

1005
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,359
Speaker 1: he was actually way cooler than most of the people

1006
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,959
Speaker 1: who came after him who invoke his name, and way

1007
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: cooler than I expected him to be when I started

1008
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: researching this part of the story. Among other things that

1009
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with today's story, he and other

1010
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: scientists helped intervene on behalf of a French geographer a

1011
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: Lee Raclue, who fought in the Paris Commune and was

1012
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: going to be executed for trying to overthrow France basically,

1013
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 1: and all these scientists were like, no, I can't execute him.

1014
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: He's our guy. He's like a scientist. Darwin was also

1015
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: an abolitionist. He pushed back against race science that invoked

1016
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 1: his name, and he argued against any kind of like

1017
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 1: social planning that led to eugenics, and he believed that

1018
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:44,760
Speaker 1: people needed to be free to reproduce as they wanted,

1019
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: which is again since most eugenics is sort of based

1020
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,479
Speaker 1: and calling itself darwinistic, I feel like it's a big deal,

1021
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 1: and specifically it's kind of interesting to me because he

1022
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: didn't deny this concept of like, I guess you could

1023
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: change how humans work by selective breeding. But what he

1024
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 1: says is, and this is a paraphrase, not a quote, Okay,

1025
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: some traits are genetic, but if you control who reproduces,

1026
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 1: you will get rid of the single best trait in humanity,

1027
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 1: which is our capacity for empathy. And so he's just like, no,

1028
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: I would never work. And I kind of liked that.

1029
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: That's like a science approach to being like, oh, you

1030
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: can't do this racist thing because of this like science,

1031
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 1: you know.

1032
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 2: Well, but also too, it's like, because that isn't how

1033
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,879
Speaker 2: it works. It's like you need variance and randomness, and

1034
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 2: like trying to direct it is not going to work. Yeah.

1035
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just wrong on some fucking levels.

1036
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1037
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 1: What wasn't wrong were his iconic mutton chops, which later

1038
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: became an epic wizard beard that almost makes me sad

1039
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 1: I got laser hair removal. It's such a good beard.

1040
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:44,720
Speaker 1: I don't know why it's I mean, everyone has wizard

1041
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 1: beards back in the day, but Darwin's particularly good. Now

1042
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: that I don't hate him, I kind of always assumed

1043
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 1: he was.

1044
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I think, like all learned

1045
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 2: people of the time, you're still grading on a.

1046
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: Curve it's true. He yeah, I'm go it gets to

1047
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 1: some of that. Sorry, okay, no, no, no, okay. So he

1048
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,959
Speaker 1: was like, whoa, look how species differentiate, and other people

1049
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: are like, yes, this justifies imperialism and the abuse of

1050
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: the poor, of the strong survive the meek parish and

1051
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: he had to like waste his time being like, maybe

1052
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: you shouldn't base policy on what made one animal into

1053
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:23,919
Speaker 1: another animal. Yeah, And he he does spend a while

1054
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 1: trying to figure out if colonialism is comparable to evolutionary

1055
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: natural selection. And he also believed that men naturally dominate

1056
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: over women because of genetics or whatever.

1057
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean I think it's like just so

1058
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:41,399
Speaker 2: hard to like any scientists. It's like I think as

1059
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 2: humans clearly were like wired to believe, like it's if

1060
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 2: it happens, yeah, it's good.

1061
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

1062
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, it definitely happens. But like one of

1063
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 2: the trademarks of being human is realizing that things that

1064
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 2: happen aren't good just because they happened.

1065
00:56:59,239 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: Totally.

1066
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like wild, like yes, yes, absolutely, you know,

1067
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 2: survival of the fittest occurs, yeah, but is it good? Yeah?

1068
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: And there are other options and that's what other scientists.

1069
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: But first I'm to talk about a scientists who took

1070
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: it the wrong way. Sure, so oh oh, And the

1071
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: final note about Darwin, total science nerd. The year before

1072
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: he dies, he's like seventy something and which in the

1073
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 1: nineteenth century means you're kicking ass, because the life expectancy

1074
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 1: is forty for men in England at the time that

1075
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: he's alive. He's almost doubled that. And the year before

1076
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: he dies he publishes his last work. And his last

1077
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 1: work is called The Formation of Vegetable Mold through the

1078
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: Action of Worms, And I just, yeah, I love it.

1079
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 1: He's a science guy.

1080
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 2: He never stopped yeah yeah.

1081
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: And so there's two ways you can take all of

1082
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: the stuff he says, and there's the reasonable way and

1083
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: the way that doesn't make any fucking sense. And the

1084
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: guy who took it the most, the way it doesn't

1085
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: make any fucking sense, is best exemplified, at least by

1086
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: this guy named Herbert spent Here's another white British dude.

1087
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 1: He also has iconic mutton shops. Herbert Spencer should have

1088
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: been cool. His parents were Quakers. He grew up anti

1089
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 1: authoritarian and socialist and militantly feminist as someone who is

1090
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,919
Speaker 1: all of those things. I like that. Then he took

1091
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: a turn to the hard right libertarian thing, and he

1092
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: started opposing women's suffrage and saying that all socialism is

1093
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 1: slavery and that it sure is good that all the

1094
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: inferior races are being wiped off the face of the earth.

1095
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: And he spent time complaining about race mixing, diluting the

1096
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: white race. He doesn't sound anything like people who are

1097
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: around today. He's the one who coined the term survival

1098
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: of the fittest, and he laid the philosophical groundwork for

1099
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: what later became right wing libertarianism and the economics of

1100
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: I've got mind, fuck you.

1101
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 2: Survival of the fittest truly is yeah, like just a

1102
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 2: tiny sliver of the theory of evolution. Yep.

1103
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: That is like, yeah, no exactly. And for some odd reason,

1104
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: this guy died alone and lonely. I'm not it's hard

1105
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: to imagine why. He also might have invented the paper clip.

1106
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people who claim to have invented

1107
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 1: the paper clip. He is a man, then, So that's

1108
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: like the social Darwinism side, all about competition. The thing is, though,

1109
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:20,439
Speaker 1: that Darwin didn't only write about competition, he also wrote

1110
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 1: about cooperation. And this brings me back to the gay animals,

1111
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: because all these Darwinists that not the social darmies particularly

1112
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: that a problem. If every animal is just trying to

1113
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 1: fucking pass on their genes as widely as possible, then

1114
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 1: why are some of them gay? Which for a long

1115
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: time people just ignored the fact that dogs animals were gay.

1116
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 1: But have you met a dog, Like, I don't know,

1117
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: I only have one dog, and my dog as gay

1118
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: as fuck. My dog gay as fuck. Yeah, I'm pretty

1119
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 1: sure my dog's pan, but I haven't like proven this,

1120
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: partly because I removed his capacity to you.

1121
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 2: Know, like get it out.

1122
00:59:56,440 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, But so some animals are gay. For a while

1123
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 1: in the twentieth century, reactionaries used to be like, gayness

1124
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: isn't natural. If it was natural, then animals would be gay,

1125
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: and there's no gay animals. And then finally someone was like, yeah,

1126
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 1: there's so many gay animals, and so now reactionaries instead

1127
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: have to be like, we are better than those gay animals.

1128
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: That's what makes those human, you know. But then around

1129
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: the beginning of the twenty first century, basically people were like, okay,

1130
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:24,919
Speaker 1: we have to address the fact that animals are gay,

1131
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: and people were like, but why how does this work

1132
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 1: with if all we believe is survival of the fittest.

1133
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 1: And the answer is something that evolutionary biologists have been

1134
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 1: talking about for one hundred goddamn fucking years, and basically

1135
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: they realized a couple things one hundred fucking goddamn years ago. One,

1136
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: sometimes animals do things just because things are fun. We're

1137
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: not actually robots. Animals try to aren't just trying to

1138
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: maximize their reproduction or whatever. Birds fly around in flocks

1139
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 1: because like, holy shit, we can fucking fly. This rules,

1140
01:00:56,160 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 1: you know. And fucking is also fun unless you're lucky

1141
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: enough to be like fucking a right wing dude who

1142
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: buys into the Ben Shapiro thing, which case you're not

1143
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 1: necessarily having a good time. Yeah all of them, or

1144
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: you know, have other drama of it whatever anyway, anyway,

1145
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: yeah problem.

1146
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1147
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: So, but also, gay animals are good for community, and

1148
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: this is the main thing that was in this article

1149
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: that I read that like I have my like mind

1150
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: explode moment or whatever about this. Gay animals foster kids,

1151
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: and they also allow for relationships like within the animal communities,

1152
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 1: that aren't just like one boy Ostrich one I'm making

1153
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 1: this animal up for an example, and one girl Ostrich

1154
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: or whatever. You have a greater capacity for love within

1155
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 1: the community. And it turns out that that makes everyone happier,

1156
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: live longer, and everything is good. So this is a

1157
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 1: confirmation of this fight that had been going on one

1158
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: hundred years ago competition versus cooperation, which wasn't actually competition

1159
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 1: versus cooperation. It was one side saying competition is the

1160
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: only thing that happens, and the other side saying it's both.

1161
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 1: It's always been both, it will always be both.

1162
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, that's also like cooperation is. Typically it's cooperation

1163
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 2: within a sphere that helps a larger group possibly compete

1164
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 2: with a different groups or societies or whatever.

1165
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And the champion of this other school of

1166
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: evolutionary biology was none other than friend of the podcast,

1167
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: Peter Kopotkin. Who is this Russian prince. He's another rich

1168
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: white guy, let's be honest, and he renounces his royalty

1169
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: to declare war on Czarist Russia and all states. He

1170
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 1: dedicates his life to the twin goals of science and anarchism.

1171
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: He breaks out of the most impossible to break out

1172
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 1: of prison in Russia in the nineteenth century to circumnavigate

1173
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 1: the world the Foster revolution of let's take care of

1174
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 1: each other, like I watched some animals do while I

1175
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 1: was a biologist. And so he's the anti Spencer, the

1176
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 1: survival of the fittest guy, and he writes a book

1177
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: about it, and his book about it is called mutual Aid,

1178
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: A Factor and Revolution because he's also a very literal

1179
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:04,959
Speaker 1: title guy. And this is where the phrase mutual aid

1180
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:08,439
Speaker 1: in the modern context comes from. Is this book mutual aid?

1181
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 1: As far as I can tell, I don't believe this

1182
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 1: is this is absolutely not the origin of the idea

1183
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: of mutual aid. In fact, since k. Pawkin's a scientist,

1184
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: it's like he's like, no, I've observed this, this exists, but.

1185
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1186
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: And then he got into all these like arguments about

1187
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: it at the time, but basically people like sort of

1188
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 1: forgot about all of these arguments. And it was all

1189
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: of the Russian scientists all, not just the leftists. We're like, no, no, no,

1190
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 1: it's cooperation, it's both, you know. But the sort of

1191
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: further West idea kind of won over for a long time.

1192
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so yeah, so, I mean, I I learned

1193
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 2: most of the biological side of this from now right

1194
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 2: wing lunatic Richard Dawkins's books, Oh yep, but his like

1195
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 2: books on you know, on genetics, Yeah, correct, Okay, it's

1196
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 2: his ideas of how to apply the to with it.

1197
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, which Darwin would have had a fucking fist

1198
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:07,439
Speaker 1: fight with him over.

1199
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think, I mean, look, this might be

1200
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 2: just me liking an older thing, but I would have

1201
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 2: thought that the older version of Richard Dalker or the

1202
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 2: younger version of Richard Dawkins would also feel the same way.

1203
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 2: But truly, what do I know?

1204
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, we we can wreckon it either way and just

1205
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 1: declare that young Richard Dawkins would absolutely fist fight would

1206
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: be the champion for Darwin in the fight to death.

1207
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 2: Maybe even if you say it out loud, that sounds crazy,

1208
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 2: all right.

1209
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 1: My idea about the younger Richard Dawkin fighting older Richard

1210
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: Dawkins doesn't sound a lot.

1211
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 2: No, no, just not the fighting part, the being a good

1212
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:49,320
Speaker 2: person part.

1213
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay, who knows, Well, that's that's kind of

1214
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: so that's like the phenomenon, right, They went to observe

1215
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 1: this phenomenon, and it's a phenomenon that food not bombs,

1216
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: and literally countless other individuals and organizations such as Solidarity

1217
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 1: and Snacks not Solidarity not Snacks, which was the precursor

1218
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: organization that was popular, has been using this phenomenon all

1219
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 1: over the world and it is a phenomenon that rules.

1220
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 1: And that is my story of food, ot bombs and

1221
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 1: mutual aid.

1222
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 2: That's oh my god, thank you for having me for this.

1223
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 2: It has been like lovely and educational, but also I

1224
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 2: think like it is this like double edge thing of

1225
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 2: like the history is interesting, but one of the important

1226
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 2: parts of the I think the rules you talked about

1227
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 2: last week is like the most important part is like

1228
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:42,960
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, but also these people weren't gods that

1229
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 2: founded this thing.

1230
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: Yeah totally.

1231
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 2: It's like they made mistakes and it's fine, but the

1232
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 2: basic bedrock is fine. Yeah, and usable and adjustable.

1233
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 1: Yeah totally.

1234
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:58,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, but again, careful when you're serving that meat because

1235
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 2: it's a real pain in the ass the streets.

1236
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

1237
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 3: Andrew, do you have anything you'd like to plug at

1238
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 3: the end here for us?

1239
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well yeah, if you've enjoyed

1240
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 2: listening to me, Talk. I'm going to be on tour

1241
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 2: with a couple more dates, not really a tour, so

1242
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 2: a mini tour with my podcast He Knows This Racist

1243
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 2: I co hosted with Tawny Newsom. We're going to be

1244
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 2: in Austin on August twentieth and Brooklyn on September tenth,

1245
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 2: So possibly the single least profitable way to put together

1246
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 2: a tour, but it's fun and it's you know, just

1247
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 2: a nice chance to see everyone.

1248
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 3: Awesome. And Margaret, you have a book coming out, correct

1249
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 3: I do.

1250
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: It's called we Won't Be Here Tomorrow, And I didn't

1251
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 1: have a pun prepared about the fact that the title

1252
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 1: reference okay anyway, And you can get it from Akpress

1253
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: or you can get it from different independent bookstores and

1254
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 1: if you pre order it you get an art print

1255
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 1: and it comes out September twentieth, and it's full of

1256
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 1: all of my short stories about uh I know. There's

1257
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: like a trans woman who feeds men to she robs

1258
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 1: men and then feeds them to her mermaid lover and

1259
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 1: then it's like, you know, whole parable imagine that. And

1260
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 1: there's another one about someone who uses drones to troll

1261
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: CEOs into quitting and there's another one about the dead

1262
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 1: from Valhalla come back and fight in the civil War

1263
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 1: against Nazis because there's no Nazis in Valhalla. If you

1264
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: like that kind of thing, yeah, I know, it's kind

1265
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 1: of a it's a little bit of a yeah, you know,

1266
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 1: so you can you can buy that. And also you

1267
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 1: can listen to my podcasts. I have a podcast called

1268
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, which is on cool

1269
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 1: Zone Media and you can listen to it every Monday

1270
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 1: and Wednesday. I have another podcast called Live Like the

1271
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: World Is Dying and it is about individual and community

1272
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 1: preparedness and you can listen to it also on wherever

1273
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 1: you find podcasts. But Sophie's not on it, so it's

1274
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 1: not sad, y'all be sad about that for a moment,

1275
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 1: a moment of silence me. Where can people find you

1276
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 1: on the Internet?

1277
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 3: You can?

1278
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 2: You can, you can.

1279
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 3: You can find me on Twitter and Instagram. You can

1280
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 3: just search my name, I pop up and then you

1281
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 3: can follow out cool Zone Media also on Twitter and Instagram.

1282
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 1: And if you look on the Internet archive, you can

1283
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 1: find Sophie Lichtterman's MySpace page.

1284
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 3: Please don't put please do but please don't please don't there.

1285
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 2: It's really it's really not not it.

1286
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:30,799
Speaker 1: Baby.

1287
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:33,640
Speaker 2: You can find my profile.

1288
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 1: And my space.

1289
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:36,639
Speaker 3: Don't find mine.

1290
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 1: I'm not even going to tell you the name of

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Speaker 1: the band I was in in two thousand and five

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Speaker 1: thousand my space. It's terrible.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So everyone get research it. You have a vague

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Speaker 2: sense of your assignment. Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 3: And we'll be back on Monday with another story of

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Speaker 3: of a poopil did cool stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yea, bye bye.

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Speaker 3: All People who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

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01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 3: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

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01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 3: visit our website coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

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Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

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Speaker 3: your podcasts.