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Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM

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Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,

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Speaker 1: and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with

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Speaker 1: Captain Ron.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and

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Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions

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Speaker 2: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast

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Speaker 2: to Coast AM, employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors

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Speaker 2: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do

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Speaker 2: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.

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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron, and each week on Beyond

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Speaker 3: Contact looks for the latest snooze and ufology, discuss some

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Speaker 3: of the classic cases and bring you the latest information

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Speaker 3: from the newest.

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Speaker 4: Cases as we talk with the top experts. Welcome to

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Speaker 4: Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron, and today we're going to

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Speaker 4: be speaking with Chris Ramsey, the host of Area fifty

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Speaker 4: two podcast. Chris also has a hugely popular YouTube channel

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Speaker 4: about magic and puzzle solving, as he is, in fact

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Speaker 4: also a magician and a mentalist himself. Hey Chris, how

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Speaker 4: you doing brother.

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Speaker 5: I'm doing great, Ron, Thanks for having me on today.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, man, it was great scene yet contact in the desert.

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Speaker 5: That was your first time, right, that was my actually

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Speaker 5: first time doing anything of the sort. So any type

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Speaker 5: of convention conference involving the sort of UFO space first

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Speaker 5: time ever.

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Speaker 4: Well, we've ruined it for you now, because if you

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Speaker 4: start there, there's nowhere to go. I mean, listen, I've

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Speaker 4: been gone to to a lot of these kind of events,

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Speaker 4: and obviously I've been involved in contact for years, and

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Speaker 4: I really do think this was sort of the pinnacle event.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's all downhill for here. It is.

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Speaker 4: It's pretty much just hope for good contact next year. Man. Sure,

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Speaker 4: so listen, I you know, I live in the middle

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Speaker 4: of these things. I'm very open minded to all these

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Speaker 4: topics around the UFO world, and I try to stick

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Speaker 4: to a very rational, logical approach to all of it.

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Speaker 4: I feel like your background learning how to do things

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Speaker 4: like in magic and mentalism would make you hyper aware

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Speaker 4: of a misdirect or to how to manipulate perception and

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Speaker 4: how how people's you know, view of things works, which

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Speaker 4: feels like it would be a great asset to stay

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Speaker 4: grounded and have a healthy skepticism when looking at these

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Speaker 4: sort of topics. Do you do you find that to

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Speaker 4: be the case?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, But you can fall into a trap as well.

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Speaker 5: I know a lot of magicians, most magicians actually, I

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Speaker 5: know who are vehemently just absolutely skeptical and just on

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Speaker 5: that whole side of the spectrum because they're so hyper

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Speaker 5: aware of all these methods and how things work. They

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Speaker 5: let that become their base reality. And I think that's

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Speaker 5: a trap. So you got to be careful, You got

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Speaker 5: to watch out not to fall too much on one

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Speaker 5: side or the other. And it's really playing this sort

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Speaker 5: of tight rope game of you know, you're kind of

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Speaker 5: like an astronaut walking a tightrope is kind of how

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Speaker 5: I like to put it. You gotta have one foot

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Speaker 5: in the atmosphere and sort of one foot out there

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Speaker 5: and just keep your mind open.

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Speaker 4: No, I agree. I think that's how you fit so

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Speaker 4: well with our both with our show here and with

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Speaker 4: contact in the desert, because you know, that's sort of

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Speaker 4: our lane and my lane is that middle road thing.

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Speaker 4: Trying to run that balance of healthy skepticism with uh

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Speaker 4: an openness to the possibility of something beyond our three

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Speaker 4: D world. You know what got you into this space? Man,

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Speaker 4: it feels like magic is somehow like adjacent to the

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Speaker 4: UFO community somehow. But I don't really recall of other

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Speaker 4: magicians that have actually dove into ufology like yourself.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you followed you. I might be a

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Speaker 5: little unique. Although I know David Copperfield's show in Vegas

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Speaker 5: is heavily based on UFOs his current deal right now,

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Speaker 5: so you know that's something that might tie in. But

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Speaker 5: aside from that, you know, I like to think back

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Speaker 5: to obviously Uri Geller, who's you know, very popular in

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Speaker 5: the SI community, but also equally, if not more popular

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Speaker 5: within the mentalism slash magic community. So that's a crossover.

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Speaker 5: And you could also look at the amazing Randy who

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Speaker 5: you know, kind of made it as life's mission to

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Speaker 5: debunk PSI effects and that type of thing. So but yeah,

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Speaker 5: you're right, in terms of UFOs, there isn't much of

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Speaker 5: a crossover, although there are some similarities in the sort

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Speaker 5: of people that I would say revolve around those communities.

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Speaker 4: So do you see an overlap you know, in these

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Speaker 4: different areas like like remote viewing and psionics and and

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Speaker 4: U EIGHTPS and how these these topics connect a definitely.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 5: There's also another that comes to mind, which, to my

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Speaker 5: surprise I found this out recently. But Russell targ who

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Speaker 5: is you know, famously the head of Stargate project at

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Speaker 5: SRI or the SRI rather and testing remote viewing. He

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Speaker 5: started his career off as being a stage magician, yes,

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Speaker 5: and his interest in sigh came directly from that. So

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Speaker 5: he was on stage performing magic and would sometimes have

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Speaker 5: these telepathic or psychic events happened during performances, which have

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Speaker 5: also happened to me and people I know as well.

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Speaker 5: So exactly very felt.

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Speaker 4: Those same things you've said, where you do something and

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Speaker 4: then you think it's going to be there and it

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Speaker 4: shouldn't be or whatever, and it is and it's not

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Speaker 4: just the trick, it's not just the setup deck. It's

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Speaker 4: something else and almost feels like a synchronistic thing. To

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Speaker 4: me that that feeling is probably very similar. Yeah, we

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Speaker 4: know Russell talk pretty well. I've interviewed him many times.

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Speaker 4: He won our Lifetime Achievement last year as a matter

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Speaker 4: of fact, a contact in the desert. So we love Russell,

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Speaker 4: you know. So this year we did a psionics thing,

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Speaker 4: you know, at Contact on a panel and you were

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Speaker 4: part of that panel. You participated in this psionics thing

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Speaker 4: with Diane Hennessy and jakeim Eisler who did a live

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Speaker 4: demonstration with this little girl Lido who who's on the

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Speaker 4: autistic spectrum. I want to see what you thought of

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Speaker 4: that demonstration that she gave.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, for me, it's tricky because as a magician,

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Speaker 5: I am fully aware that given the conditions, there is

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Speaker 5: a possible way to sort of fake that, right, And

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Speaker 5: that's my job as a magician. I just have to

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Speaker 5: acknowledge that if you give me a problem as a magician,

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Speaker 5: I have to find a solution, right, And magicians are

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Speaker 5: really really good at that. In fact, that's all we do.

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Speaker 5: That's all we think about. If you come to me

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Speaker 5: with an impossibility, I have to figure out a way

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Speaker 5: of doing it. So we literally manufacture the impossible constantly.

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Speaker 5: That's what we do. So given those conditions, I definitely

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Speaker 5: personally could find a way that I could manipulate the outcome.

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Speaker 5: Now the question is is that what Lee do and

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Speaker 5: Dallia work doing. I can't tell you for sure. You know,

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Speaker 5: I would love to, and I've heard that, you know,

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Speaker 5: doctor Diane Hennessy Powell. She had subsequently brought Lee do

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Speaker 5: To and Dahlia to this airbnb. They had this Stanford

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Speaker 5: research professor that was there. They had controlled parameters, like

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Speaker 5: very tightly controlled, and she still proceeded to do these

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Speaker 5: telepathic abilities and these telepathic demonstrations, which you know, to

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Speaker 5: my ears, sounds amazing and I'm very very happy to

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Speaker 5: hear that. I would love to double down and see

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Speaker 5: that as well. Now, at Contact, you know, there is

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Speaker 5: no room for a scientifically rigorous demonstration. You're there to

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Speaker 5: demonstrate and show the people, and you know, not to

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Speaker 5: put it lightly, but there is a show being put on,

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Speaker 5: you know, so people have to be sort of entertained,

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Speaker 5: and there's this whole thing. So I do understand that

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Speaker 5: the parameters that were given during Contact weren't ideal for

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Speaker 5: a scientifically, you know, viable test. That is totally fine.

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Speaker 5: Putting that aside. I did find Ledu and Dahlia to

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Speaker 5: be incredibly courageous to do something like that on stage.

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Speaker 5: I think takes a lot of guts regardless. I think

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Speaker 5: putting yourself out there vulnerably, you know, with your child,

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Speaker 5: I think that that's just, you know, something that is

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Speaker 5: really tough to do. So you know, my hat goes

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Speaker 5: off to them for doing that. And I was really

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Speaker 5: impressed by what I saw and incredibly intrigued and I

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Speaker 5: would love to, like I said, see this in a

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Speaker 5: little bit more of a rigorous test. And one more thing.

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Speaker 5: Hakim is also putting on something called the Side Games,

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Speaker 5: which I'll be a part of me too, And yeah, great, well,

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Speaker 5: we'll see you there and I'll be doing a talk

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Speaker 5: there and I hear that Dahlia and lead you and

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Speaker 5: some other people. Obviously, some competitors will be put to

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Speaker 5: the test, so to speak, in a playful, positive manner,

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Speaker 5: and the conditions will be more strict because there'll be

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Speaker 5: in the environment of some type of you know, some

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Speaker 5: type of competition. We'll say, friendly competition. Yeah, so I'm

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Speaker 5: looking forward to that.

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Speaker 4: My closest friends come there and they help me with

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Speaker 4: the show and everything, and they like yourself and myself

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Speaker 4: Immediately the whole time, we're all thinking, how could you

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Speaker 4: do this? How could this be done? What are the

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Speaker 4: possible ways? And I want to share a couple of

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Speaker 4: things with you. I actually jotted down a couple of

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Speaker 4: notes that I thought about this particular panel because it

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Speaker 4: was my favorite of the show. So we're all thinking

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Speaker 4: about how could this be done? And you know, I

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Speaker 4: wasn't planning on hosting that at the last second. I

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Speaker 4: wasn't prepared at all. I just kind of got thrown

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Speaker 4: into that role and so I became part of the

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Speaker 4: thing and hosted it. And you know, one thing that

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Speaker 4: was really cool is that every time I see something

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Speaker 4: like that, I think, well, that's a plant in the audience,

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Speaker 4: or while that's faked, or well that's not you know,

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Speaker 4: there's ways to do it. You could take all of

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Speaker 4: those off the table, because it was me. I put

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Speaker 4: on that mask and I could not see a freaking thing.

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Speaker 4: I was the one who handed the girl the thing.

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Speaker 4: I handed the thing. I was the one. So all

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Speaker 4: of that can be taken off, which is good for me.

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Speaker 4: It gives me more belief. Yes, obviously we didn't have

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Speaker 4: strict scientific things. That wasn't the point. As you well

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Speaker 4: pointed out, this was just a little demonstration to show

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Speaker 4: people what we're talking about here. And you know, in

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Speaker 4: talking to Diane over over the last eight months, who

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Speaker 4: I think is an incredible woman and a great scientist,

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Speaker 4: you know, she wants to get these things into a lab.

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Speaker 4: They want to do this in a farty cage. They

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Speaker 4: want to have rigorous conditions. And what I didn't like

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Speaker 4: about that was it did kind of feel almost like

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Speaker 4: a magic show, Like it's the same sort of setup. Hey,

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Speaker 4: pick a card, Pick a card, what color. It felt

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Speaker 4: a little like a trick. And I just want to

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Speaker 4: be clear, this was not a trick. It was not

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Speaker 4: something done to deceive. There was zero intention of anyone.

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Speaker 4: I don't believe doctor Diane or Hakeem we're trying to

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Speaker 4: deceive anybody. I sure as hell was not so I

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Speaker 4: don't know what was happening there, but it wasn't deception.

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Speaker 4: And I do think i'd love to see some more

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Speaker 4: scientific rigor on this. Sorry, brother, I took up all

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Speaker 4: that time. We're out of time here. We're going to

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Speaker 4: go to a quick break. We're going to come back

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Speaker 4: and talk more about this with Chris see where he

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Speaker 4: sits on what might be happening with some UFOs and

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Speaker 4: some contact deeds. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the

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Speaker 4: iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We

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Speaker 4: are back on Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron talking to

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Speaker 4: Chris Ramsey of Area fifty two podcasts. You know, like

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Speaker 4: you mentioned earlier, some magicians fall into this trap of

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Speaker 4: maybe being too smart for their own good, that they

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Speaker 4: feel like there's got to be a prosaic explanation for it.

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Speaker 4: You know, your fellow cohorts, famously Penn and Teller, whom

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Speaker 4: I love by the way, are very strict Newtonian atheist

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Speaker 4: guys who do not at all believe in any of this.

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Speaker 4: So you seem, though, at the very least, to be

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Speaker 4: quite open to there being something less tangible, something beyond

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Speaker 4: the three D world happening. Is that true?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? I think if you research this stuff long enough,

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Speaker 5: you tend to find those things to be true. You know,

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Speaker 5: I spent a year looking down the remote viewing rabbit hole,

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Speaker 5: being incredibly skeptical of remote viewing in general, being skeptical

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Speaker 5: of psychic ability in general, as someone who's aware of

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Speaker 5: a lot of mentalism and how to get away with that,

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Speaker 5: how to make people think you're psychic. So, you know,

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Speaker 5: going into this, I was really really skeptical. I had

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Speaker 5: a friend of mine who's a memory champion. His name

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Speaker 5: is Nelson Dells, and he also comes from a physics background,

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Speaker 5: and he's, you know, sort of very much on the

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Speaker 5: you know, this stuff can all be explained level. And

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Speaker 5: he was actually paid by this sort of hedge fund

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Speaker 5: that was hiring people to teach people how to remote

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Speaker 5: view for the stock market, and so he was doing

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Speaker 5: ARV associated remoteviewing for the stock market. And I thought

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Speaker 5: to myself, well, hold on, there's regular people paying actual,

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Speaker 5: real money. Well, then there has to be something to this.

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Speaker 5: And so I started looking down the remote viewing stuff,

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Speaker 5: you know, met with Joe mcmonagle, met with Major ed Dames,

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Speaker 5: spoke to Uri Geller, spoke to doctor Edwin May, who's

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Speaker 5: the chief research physicist at SRI. And after compiling all

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Speaker 5: this data and spending one year every single day doing

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Speaker 5: some remote viewing exercises and putting it together in a documentary,

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Speaker 5: and I found by the end of it, I was

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Speaker 5: by no means a good remote viewer, but I did

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Speaker 5: I did find that there was something there and enough

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Speaker 5: there to keep the government interested. Nonetheless, like they spent

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Speaker 5: obviously twenty years now on the record, as they say,

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Speaker 5: studying and looking into remote viewing and using remote viewing

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Speaker 5: as a piece of intelligence gathering.

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Speaker 4: I love that you actually talk the talk and walk

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Speaker 4: the walk, and you actually spend a year trying to

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Speaker 4: do exercises and learning the remote viewing thing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's important. I think, you know, boots

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Speaker 5: on the ground, we need more of that. A lot

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Speaker 5: of people can go on the internet and say things

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Speaker 5: and just repeat what other people say or something they

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Speaker 5: read in a book, which is fine, or even white

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Speaker 5: papers are studying and all this stuff. But to get

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Speaker 5: out there try it yourself like, that's what I highly

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Speaker 5: encourage my audience as well. And whether that's remote viewing,

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Speaker 5: whether that's the astral projection stuff, or whether that's just

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Speaker 5: orb WA, you know, whatever that is. Just try it

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Speaker 5: for yourself. Do the protocols that they're telling you to do,

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Speaker 5: and document it, try over and over, and don't go

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Speaker 5: into it being a skeptic. Go into it open minded

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Speaker 5: and see what happens, and you know, allow your world

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Speaker 5: you to expand a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely. I'll give you two things Russell Tark said. Number one,

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Speaker 4: he said, people that you would least suspect would be

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Speaker 4: into this that they tried at the SRII Institute ended

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Speaker 4: up being some of the best remote viewers. The people

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Speaker 4: that were skeptical, didn't even plan on being involved. They

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Speaker 4: just grab a secretary and she would be great. And

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Speaker 4: another thing, it's funny you were telling me that this

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Speaker 4: guy that your friend did it for a hedge fund.

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Speaker 4: You know, Russell Tard did a study where they actually

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Speaker 4: did invest money silver stock setting exactly silverstock, and it

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Speaker 4: was statistically significant that they were able to improve upon that.

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Speaker 4: That's that's pretty compelling.

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Speaker 5: It definitely is compelling. And there's so much more research

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Speaker 5: to it as well. If people new where to look.

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Speaker 5: And if you go down the videos that I've watched

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Speaker 5: and I've left a ton of links there, there's actual

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Speaker 5: data on this stuff, good and bad. It's not just

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Speaker 5: cherry picking the hits. It's everything. And you can see

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Speaker 5: that there's a constant line and the line isn't progressing

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Speaker 5: as these remote viewers keep practicing, but it isn't declining either.

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Speaker 5: It stays steady as something they found over thirty years.

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Speaker 4: Chris, if this worked ten percent of the time and

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Speaker 4: was accurate, I think that would be astonishing. That shows

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Speaker 4: that it's real. Just like the UFO thing, we only

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Speaker 4: need one of these to be an off world craft

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Speaker 4: for it to be real.

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Speaker 5: You know that's right. But the fun thing about the

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Speaker 5: side stuff is that it is testable. You know, when

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Speaker 5: you look at UAP, there's that first word is you know,

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Speaker 5: or unidentified, And then anomalists like we don't know when

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Speaker 5: it's going to happen. We're trying with psionics and all

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Speaker 5: sorts of other things and dog whistles and whatnot to

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Speaker 5: attract them. But frankly, we can't just study something when

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Speaker 5: we don't know when it's going to happen, which we

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Speaker 5: can do with sigh, and so I think it's really

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Speaker 5: important that we lock that down first. That might, to

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Speaker 5: a lot of people's dismay, be where we should start.

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Speaker 5: You know, if everything is connected and somehow these ets

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Speaker 5: are using psychic abilities for their UFOs and their gadgets, well,

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Speaker 5: then I think that's where we should be headed.

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Speaker 4: First.

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Speaker 5: Let's understand the mind and understand consciousness prior to understanding

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Speaker 5: the outs of bolts, because that might help us figure

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Speaker 5: everything out after.

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Speaker 4: Agreed, But I would argue that it's very difficult for

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Speaker 4: the mainstream world that's not into this topic to digest

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Speaker 4: that because that's a step too far for me. The

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Speaker 4: nuts and bolts, I think you can kind of get

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Speaker 4: your head around that. Oh, there's an Apple computer and

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Speaker 4: another planet that drove here. I see. Now, you know.

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Speaker 4: Now we've got sihabilities and humans are driving these craft

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Speaker 4: and bringing them in. That's another level. That's the next

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Speaker 4: thing I want to ask you about. Is the new thing.

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Speaker 4: Is this psionic stuff like from Jake Barber and the

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Speaker 4: Skywatcher program that these guys are saying they have a

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Speaker 4: dog whistle, they're able to psychically call in the craft

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Speaker 4: and they can land them, and they claim by the

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Speaker 4: end of the year they're going to give us some

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Speaker 4: results on this. This could be the next big thing. Huh.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it really could be, I hope. So, you know,

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Speaker 5: they are the first to try this stuff out, either.

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Speaker 5: The Russians have been doing this for a very long time,

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Speaker 5: apparently successfully as well, using like a three gigahertz frequency

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Speaker 5: to on the radars to some of them in and

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Speaker 5: they had some success with that allegedly. I spoke to

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Speaker 5: it was a John Ramirez actually recently who confirmed that

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Speaker 5: to me. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It

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Speaker 5: seems like this stuff's been going on for a while.

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Speaker 5: They're finally sort of helping to bring it into the light.

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Speaker 5: And make it public by creating a startup company that

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Speaker 5: people can be involved in. I think that's a good idea,

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Speaker 5: And honestly, any conversation we have about this stuff is

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Speaker 5: a good conversation. I think we should be talking about it,

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Speaker 5: and we should be normalizing the conversation of UFOs.

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Speaker 4: I like that you also share an interest in some

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Speaker 4: of these older cases, and you'll read up on them

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Speaker 4: and take a deep dive, and I'm even read them

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Speaker 4: on the air. It sort of feels more credible somehow,

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Speaker 4: like there must be something to some of these cases.

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Speaker 4: Like I too look at some of these older accounts

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Speaker 4: and you know their pre internet, pre proliferation, redissemination of

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Speaker 4: the UFO folklore, resocial media, and pre AI. Of course,

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Speaker 4: you know, do you prefer some of these cases for

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Speaker 4: that reason?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely? I think. You know, if if we have stories

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Speaker 5: that are uninfected, so to speak, by the current zeitgeist

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Speaker 5: and the current Internet world that's out there, I think

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Speaker 5: that actually weighs a lot more in comparison. Because not

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Speaker 5: only that, if you look at the early books that

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Speaker 5: were written on abduction, whether it's John Mack or Bud

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Speaker 5: Hopkins or David Jacobs, these takes weren't publicly available prior

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Speaker 5: to publication. It wasn't like you could go read up

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Speaker 5: on a thousand cases and then make one up. There

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Speaker 5: was a lot of things that were being said for

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Speaker 5: the first time, stories that were being corroborated from people

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Speaker 5: who had no access to that information, and so I

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Speaker 5: think that's really important. It gets harder and harder to

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Speaker 5: separate that as we move forward, obviously with chat, GPT

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Speaker 5: and whatnot. But yeah, I think the more we move forward,

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Speaker 5: the more we're going to be reliant on not only

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Speaker 5: old stories, but also film, photography and analog things. Things

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Speaker 5: that we might take for granted right now I think

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Speaker 5: might come of great importance in the future.

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Speaker 4: For sure. You know, there was like this window there

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Speaker 4: when people became I don't know, open to talk about

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Speaker 4: this thing before we got to now now with photoshop

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Speaker 4: and AI, everything immediately is suspect and I get that. Okay, Chris,

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Speaker 4: we got to take a quick break here. When we

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Speaker 4: come back, we're going to talk more to you about

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Speaker 4: you know how common some of these anomalist experiences may

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Speaker 4: actually be. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio

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Speaker 4: and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network. We are

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Speaker 4: back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Chris Ramsey today. Chris,

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Speaker 4: on that same episode that you talked about David Seawall,

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Speaker 4: you actually shared a moment about how your dad, who's

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Speaker 4: not interested in the space at all, shared that even

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Speaker 4: he had an experience of missing time. I love that

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Speaker 4: you shared that, and I often share how common it

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Speaker 4: is for me when I'm going about my day to

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Speaker 4: day life and I'll run into someone that I don't

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Speaker 4: know and they'll ask, for whatever reason, they ask what

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Speaker 4: I do for a living, and they find out they

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Speaker 4: immediately have no interest in UFOs. The whole thing's silly, no, no,

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Speaker 4: no no. But inevitably they end up saying, you know,

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Speaker 4: there was this one time this thing happened to me,

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Speaker 4: And I can't get over how often that happens to me.

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Speaker 4: How many people have well this one time? Have you

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Speaker 4: noticed that?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely? And I think it just goes to show you

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Speaker 5: how many stories are out there that we don't know about.

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Speaker 5: Like as compelling as the stories that we do know

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Speaker 5: about are, can you just imagine the books that we

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Speaker 5: could write and the stories that we could tell if

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Speaker 5: the people who are afraid to come out felt comfortable

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Speaker 5: enough to you know, divulge what they know in a

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Speaker 5: judgment free environment. I think that that's where we need

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Speaker 5: to be heading and I encourage that with the show

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Speaker 5: that I do. That's kind of the whole point of it.

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Speaker 5: It isn't to you know, figure out the truth or

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Speaker 5: to you know, get the latest whistleblower. It really is

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Speaker 5: about just having the conversation in a way that allows

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Speaker 5: everyone involved to listen. And I think that's important for

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Speaker 5: not for especially the experiencers, but also for people who

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Speaker 5: don't know anything about this. I think we have to

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Speaker 5: make it a comfortable environment for them too, because, like

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Speaker 5: you said, they might have some really interesting stories to

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Speaker 5: contribute that otherwise, you know, the world wouldn't hear about.

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Speaker 4: I literally feel like contact in the desert is that

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Speaker 4: safe space, and people just tend to start vomiting at

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Speaker 4: the mouth even well, you know, you'll hear the phrase.

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Speaker 4: You know, I never really talked about this, but because

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Speaker 4: that is the space to do it. You know, everybody's

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Speaker 4: got a story. Yeah, if I got into this topic,

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Speaker 4: they have a story.

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Speaker 5: It's incredible, definitely, And I feel like Contact of the

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Speaker 5: desert is unique because not only do we all have stories,

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Speaker 5: it's once we're all done telling those stories and it's

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Speaker 5: two in the morning, and then we just start digging

431
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 5: real deep. And then people just start, oh, yeah, I guess.

432
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 5: And then you want to hear some really weird stuff.

433
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 5: You know, all the people that are comfortable talking about

434
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 5: weird stuff, wait till they get to their weird experiences, right.

435
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 5: That usually comes out late at night.

436
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's all part of the experience. Man. You know

437
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 4: another fascinating thing I thought i'd talked to you about

438
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 4: is you know, when you dig into these various topics

439
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 4: as you you have as well as I have. You know,

440
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 4: around the UFO community, there's all these different little ants,

441
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 4: hilary things that kind of relate to the UFO topic

442
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 4: paranormal let's call it. I find it kind of hilarious

443
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 4: how often people point How often people will we all

444
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 4: have our own judgment on what is a level, like

445
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 4: you sometimes will do this. You'll say I have a

446
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 4: high confidence on that, I have a low confidence, like

447
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 4: you know, you sort of grade each one of these topics.

448
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 4: I've got these funny stories that I've I was like

449
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 4: talking to a guy who's like a bigfoot researcher or whatever.

450
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 4: And he literally said to me, how, oh my god,

451
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 4: that guy over there, he's looking into the Locknes monster.

452
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 4: Isn't that dumb? And it's like he thinks that's completely dumb,

453
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 4: but the bigfoot thing is completely legit. And it's just

454
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 4: like that's his worldview, his paradigm. And it's funny when

455
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 4: you get into a topic like the one that we

456
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 4: deal with. Everybody has that all day long, every one

457
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 4: of these things. We have a little on each thing

458
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 4: that what we believe and don't believe, And isn't that

459
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 4: Isn't that just fascinating?

460
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's so I'd like to do away with the

461
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 5: idea of belief personally. I don't think it brings anything

462
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 5: to the table whether I believe or I don't believe.

463
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 5: I can have high and low conviction on things, and

464
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 5: I can look at things based on evidence and absorb

465
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 5: them regardless. I always tell people like I hear some

466
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 5: people say I don't believe him. Why are you listening

467
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 5: to him? I don't believe anything he says, And I say,

468
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 5: you know whether or not what that person is saying

469
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 5: is true. If it's true or false, it's still valuable information.

470
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 5: So I think it's really important to just absorb information

471
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 5: in general. I have this.

472
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 4: Unless that person's intentionally deceiving, that's another level.

473
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 5: Well, that's still information because if I know they're intentionally deceiving,

474
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 5: then I'm going to listen openly at what they're trying

475
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 5: to deceive me with because it might give me some

476
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 5: clues at what they're trying to hide. So I really

477
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 5: think that just listening to everything and not outright saying

478
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 5: you believe or don't believe, just there's no you know,

479
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 5: you can you can say that when you're when you're

480
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 5: ninety nine, like, who cares? Right now, Let's just collect

481
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 5: the information at a ground level, be you know, low,

482
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,239
Speaker 5: low conviction, and then when we see things pop up,

483
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 5: we can start making connections, Oh it had four fingers,

484
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 5: Oh like this being over here in this case, and

485
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 5: this one over here also had scaly skin. And then

486
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 5: we start making these collections and forming, you know, subtle

487
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 5: hypotheses about the subject. I have this little analogy that

488
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 5: I like to give people. Essentially, it's like I'm having

489
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 5: a house party, okay, and and let's say remote viewing

490
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 5: shows up. Well, I've gotten to know remote viewing remote viewing.

491
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 5: I can let into my home. You can come in,

492
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 5: all right, because I know you now, you know it's

493
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 5: not about believing or I know remote viewing, So you

494
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,959
Speaker 5: can come in and astral projection. I've gone down that

495
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 5: rabbit hole. I know you. Now you can come in

496
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 5: as well. But a lot of people when they let

497
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 5: remote viewing an astral projection, and they'll leave the door

498
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 5: open and all before you know it, you got reptilians

499
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 5: eating out of the fridge, you got moon Nazis on

500
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 5: the couch. It it becomes like an unmanageable party, right,

501
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 5: So you have to be the gatekeeper at some point.

502
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 5: But you know, I'll let Bigfoot chill in the front yard.

503
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 5: That's okay. And my friends would be like, no, no,

504
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 5: I vouch for him. I'm vouching for Bigfoot. You should

505
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 5: let him in. I'm gonna I don't really know, but

506
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 5: I trust that you know Bigfoot. I just don't know

507
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 5: Bigfoot yet. But feel free to hang out in the

508
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 5: front yard. You know, there's a fire out there. They're

509
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,239
Speaker 5: singing camp songs and I'll have you. I'll have you

510
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 5: over once I get to know you. And so that's

511
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 5: kind of how I treat everything. Everything's welcome, but the

512
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 5: stuff that I know to be true, I think is

513
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 5: just a little different. So I don't go from believing

514
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 5: and not believing. I really just try to take everything

515
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 5: in and once I know something, I know something sure.

516
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 4: And I love that people like you mentioned I think

517
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 4: Bud Hopkins, also like David Jacobs, these guys who have

518
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 4: collected a lot of data. You know, when you talk

519
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 4: to David Jacobs and he talks about how he hears

520
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 4: the exact same phrasing in the in the exact same

521
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 4: thing from completely different people that would never have talked

522
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 4: to each other, particularly again pre internet. You know, uh,

523
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 4: I find that very compelling. Why would these people have

524
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 4: the exact same story and have like this weird ancillary fact,

525
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 4: you know, like the walls were rounded not straight. You know,

526
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 4: that's like a weird why would that be? And why

527
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 4: would they so often? And it comes up all the time,

528
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 4: so it's like, gosh, that really is compelling to me.

529
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 4: So those are the things I look for. I like,

530
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 4: I like the repeated things because then there must be

531
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 4: something to it. Anybody could make one crazy story up,

532
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 4: but but for you know, thousands of people to have

533
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 4: the exact same little pieces of information. I am just

534
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 4: compelled by that. For you, what's the most compelling UFO

535
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 4: case that you've come across.

536
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 5: That's that's a really good question.

537
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 4: They all are, Chris, But.

538
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 5: I would say, and this is not going to be

539
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 5: a popular answer, the Aztec crash interesting forty eight March

540
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 5: twenty fifth, nineteen forty eight, eight months after Roswell New Mexico.

541
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 5: I am very high conviction on that, and I think

542
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 5: there is so much data on that. Obviously, you know,

543
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 5: Bill Steinman put out a really good book, UFO Crash

544
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 5: at ASTech. But then there's prior to that, there's Frank

545
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 5: Scully's book that also detailed a lot of stuff in there.

546
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 5: And if you just read the topical articles debunking it,

547
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 5: you might feel satiated and say, oh, this is all

548
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 5: a hoax. But if you go deeper, and you know,

549
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 5: look into Scott and Suzanne Ramsey's work on Aztech and

550
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 5: so on and so forth, you'll realize that this is

551
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,959
Speaker 5: one of the biggest cover ups that's ever happened.

552
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 4: It's interesting how nineteen forty seven, in nineteen forty eight,

553
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 4: like right that that period there was so much activity

554
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 4: you know, it's really interesting. We need to take another

555
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 4: quick break here. When we come back, we're going to

556
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 4: talk to Chris more about his personal feelings on the

557
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,239
Speaker 4: UFO topic and see if he's had any of his

558
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 4: own experiences. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio

559
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 4: and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast. Now we are

560
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 4: back on Beyond Contact. It's Captain Ron talking to Chris

561
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 4: Ramsey flying by here today. Chris, let me ask you this.

562
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 4: Have you had any personal experiences yourself in your life

563
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 4: that you know are outside the normal three D world

564
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 4: that you might qualify as paranormal or UFO related.

565
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 5: I've had a few sightings. I can't say that they

566
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 5: were you know, legitimate et craft anything of that nature.

567
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 5: But I've seen, like, you know, the three lights in

568
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 5: the sky, the formation of a triangle sort of shaped craft.

569
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 5: I've also seen what seems to be a tic tac.

570
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 5: I shared that video that was flying over Las Vegas.

571
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 5: It's pretty clear, and you know, but again, is it

572
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 5: a blimp? I don't know. I'm not smart enough to

573
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,959
Speaker 5: know those things. And it's it's what I say when

574
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 5: I go sky watching and I see these celestial bodies

575
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 5: moving about. Sure, I'd like to think that it's all

576
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 5: you have. I have no idea. I'm not you know,

577
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 5: I'll get the latest app to see if it's a satellite.

578
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 5: That's That's about the extent of you know, my my

579
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 5: knowledge in regards to what I'm seeing in the sky.

580
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 5: But as far as et contact goes, I haven't had

581
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 5: any yet, you know, I don't know that the day

582
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 5: is young. Maybe maybe one day we'll have one on

583
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 5: the podcast, that's the goal. But I have had some

584
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 5: out of body experiences and that that really rocked my world.

585
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 5: It's not something I was looking for. It happened spontaneously,

586
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,959
Speaker 5: and then subsequently I fell into a rabbit hole, started

587
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 5: reading Robert Monroe's Journey Out of the Journeys Out of

588
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 5: the Body, followed up with a monro institute who graciously

589
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 5: let me film there for a week and make a

590
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 5: documentary about that, and then spent you know, three to

591
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 5: four months meditating an hour a day at like four

592
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 5: point thirty in the morning until eventually I started popping

593
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 5: out of my body and having these out of body experiences.

594
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 5: So that for me was a bit of a game

595
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 5: changer in terms of my own personal ontology.

596
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 4: I was just going to specifically ask you if you've

597
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 4: had an experience like that that changed your view of

598
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,959
Speaker 4: other things. For example, I have not had any experiences

599
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 4: like this, but I do have extremely profound synchronicities that

600
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 4: happened frequently. And because that happens to me and they're

601
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 4: so profound, it does somehow tend to make me a

602
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 4: little more open to some of the other phenomenon that's

603
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 4: a little bit further out there. And I wondered if

604
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 4: if this out of body experience has made you, since

605
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 4: you know that that's real, do you then feel like

606
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 4: you're a little more open to some of the other

607
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 4: phenomena that you maybe have not made a determination on you.

608
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 5: I wouldn't say I'm more open, but I definitely say

609
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 5: it makes me look through things with a different filter,

610
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 5: especially concerning like the astral realm or whatever that is.

611
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 5: You know, if you're studying abductions, like I'm reading a

612
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 5: lot about this stuff, you quickly realize the uncomfortable conversation

613
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 5: that has to happen when you bring forth the idea

614
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 5: of non physical abduction, and that's you know, for people

615
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 5: to even wrap their heads around aliens taking you out

616
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 5: of your bedroom. You also have to be like no,

617
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 5: and they float you through the walls and then like

618
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 5: there's all this like weird non physicalness about it. And

619
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 5: people who've had out of body experiences they know how

620
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 5: you know, terrifying they can be, they know how otherworldly

621
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 5: they feel. And so once I had that, it really

622
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 5: enriched I think my understanding of what a lot of

623
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 5: these experiences and or abductees to some extent, have felt.

624
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 5: And so that gave me a little bit more of

625
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 5: a broader sense of what's happening. So it informed me

626
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 5: a lot more, I would say, rather than like it

627
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 5: obviously shifted my own you know, I didn't know. I

628
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 5: didn't know any of this stuff. I didn't I didn't

629
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 5: think it was real. I just didn't know, kind of agnostic.

630
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 5: But then when it happened, I went, oh. And it

631
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 5: happened during you know, a daytime meditation where I was

632
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 5: not asleep, I was meditating, the sun was out, and

633
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 5: that's when I left my body, you know, and I

634
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 5: was I had my eyes opened five seconds before it happened, right,

635
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 5: It wasn't like some I was just really relaxed, And yeah,

636
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 5: so that'll that'll rock your world. And again, I spent

637
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 5: four months every single day meditating with the heavy sink

638
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 5: at four thirty in the morning, making sure that I could,

639
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 5: you know, have this happen because I wanted. I wanted

640
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 5: to find out for myself than just read it in

641
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 5: a book.

642
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 4: It is interesting when people have these things. You can

643
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 4: imagine what a profound effect each of these people who

644
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 4: have claimed to have whatever experience they've had had upon

645
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 4: their life. And I always think to myself, like, you know,

646
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 4: we always joke around about how if if, like, let's

647
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 4: just pretend right now for split second, if you and

648
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 4: I looked out the window and we either saw a

649
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 4: flying song sir, a craft right there, undisputed craft like

650
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 4: twenty feet above the ground, or even a bigfoot just

651
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 4: right there. It's just like you'd be like, oh my god,

652
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 4: holy shit, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.

653
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 4: You'd have this overwhelming thing. And then it's like, but

654
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 4: now what do you do with that? You'd call your

655
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 4: best friends up and you'd tell them and then go,

656
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 4: oh wow, you had a big foot sighting or you

657
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 4: had a UFO sighting, and it just sort of ends there,

658
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 4: and it seems so anticlimactic compared to the person who

659
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 4: had that experience, was like, you're probably feeling like the

660
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 4: whole world should change now, Like when you had that

661
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 4: out of body you were probably like, this should be

662
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 4: on CNN tonight. The whole world should know that this

663
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 4: is real and this can happen, right.

664
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 5: I feel like everyone should have the experience, and I

665
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 5: think the Monero Institute shares those same sentiments, and that's

666
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 5: been part of their mission and part of Bob and

667
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 5: Roe's mission. I believe. I think you called it like

668
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 5: M five thousand or something back in the day, where

669
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 5: like you wanted five thousand people to experience and out

670
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 5: of body experience, which I think they've surpassed greatly since then.

671
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 5: But if everyone could have an out of body experience,

672
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 5: I think the world will be a more peaceful place.

673
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 5: I think once you realize that there is more to

674
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 5: this physical reality, I think it makes you appreciate the

675
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 5: physical a lot more, and it makes you appreciate life

676
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 5: a lot more. It's like, because you think about this,

677
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 5: you think about this idea of Okay, let's say the

678
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 5: eternal sort of instant manifestation life is possible, and that

679
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 5: we can just whisper around the universe and have whatever

680
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 5: we want whenever we want. Well, then why would we

681
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 5: to come here?

682
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 4: Right?

683
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 5: There must be something special about this if we gave

684
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 5: that up, right, And so it gives you a renewed

685
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 5: rejuvenation of life and a value of the physical world.

686
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 5: And like there's a reason we're here and and whatever

687
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 5: that reason is, maybe that's the journey to figure it out.

688
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 5: But I think, uh, I think it's an important lesson

689
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 5: for people to learn. So I would encourage them to

690
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 5: at least, you know, try the meditations, because even that

691
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 5: will greatly improve your you know, your life.

692
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 4: How interesting also that the out of body idea ties

693
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 4: into so many other aspects of life, you know, in

694
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 4: many religions. How you know, we have a soul that's eternal,

695
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 4: that goes beyond our body. You know that that ties

696
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 4: right into that and this idea of you know, some

697
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 4: of these people think that the aliens, even Whitley says,

698
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 4: he's he's these aliens like put on the great costume,

699
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 4: like a like a uniform like that that their entity,

700
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 4: that their life force or whatever is, is not that being.

701
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 4: It's they put on this body to exist in our

702
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 4: plane or whatever. So it's funny how that notion of

703
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 4: out of body ties into so many other beliefs that

704
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 4: people have, even people to talk to the afterlife, or

705
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 4: the Michael Newton idea of life between lives and all

706
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 4: that that ties right into this. Like you would think

707
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 4: that that part of your body, consciousness would survive even

708
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:33,919
Speaker 4: mainstream Max Planck Einstein type guys say consciousness survives death. Well,

709
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 4: that would be the out of body thing, and then

710
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 4: our our bodies remain here.

711
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, it would seem that way, and if it isn't,

712
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 5: it might even just give us a closer perception of

713
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 5: what that's like. Like, I'm not convinced that the out

714
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 5: of body state is the state that will be in.

715
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,439
Speaker 5: I don't know, you know, And if you look at

716
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 5: Bob and Roe, he there are so many dimensions he

717
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 5: traveled to like d during his travels. And then yeah,

718
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 5: you mentioned that Michael Newton, you know, doctor Michael Newton

719
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 5: in his work, which is highly fascinating. I've even gone

720
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 5: down that rabbit hole. I had a few sessions with

721
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 5: Paul Aran who's now in charge of the Michael Newton Institute,

722
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 5: and he regressed me back to see, you know, my

723
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 5: life between Lowe.

724
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 4: Did you have a previous life.

725
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 5: I don't know. So I had a couple sessions and

726
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 5: we went pretty deep. I regressed back to the womb.

727
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 5: It was very emotional. I had filmed it, actually, I

728
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 5: just I was hesitant about putting it out there because

729
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 5: it's just so personal. Sure, you know so, but it

730
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 5: was really profound, and I'm trying to sort of find

731
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 5: the courage and build that back up to go at

732
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 5: it again and go even deeper, because yeah, I tore

733
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 5: through Michael Newton's books pretty rapidly, Journey of Souls and

734
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 5: Destiny of Souls, and you know, looked into Dolores Cannon,

735
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 5: who you know, obviously channeling something similar there as well.

736
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 5: And so there's yeah, there does, like you said, seem

737
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 5: to be a lot of overlap within the abduction stuff,

738
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 5: the religions, the you know, past life regression, all of

739
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,439
Speaker 5: this stuff seems and even quantum physics somehow. So yeah,

740
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 5: I'm excited to see, you know, what the future holds.

741
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 5: But until then, I'll keep keep trying it out for myself.

742
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,919
Speaker 4: Hey man, we're out of time, But thank you so much.

743
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 4: I really appreciated a lot of fun Chris, that was

744
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 4: a quick forty minutes. I gotta be honest with you, brother.

745
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 4: You guys can find Chris at YouTube at Chris Ramsey

746
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 4: fifty two or at Area fifty two Investigations. You can

747
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 4: find me on Twitter on Instagram at CD Underscore Captain Ron.

748
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 4: Stay connected by checking out contact inthedesert dot com. Stay

749
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 4: open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right

750
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 4: here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal

751
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 4: Podcast Network.

752
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost

753
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out

754
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going

755
00:40:55,080 --> 00:41:01,920
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