Speaker 1: From my Heart Radio. This is missing on nine eleven,
Speaker 1: the story of one woman who vanished on the eve
Speaker 1: of history and my quest to find her. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: John Wallzac. Well, you know, before I get into this
Speaker 1: particular case, UM, tell me about your nine eleven experience.
Speaker 1: What what happened? Where were you? Um? I was working
Speaker 1: in the Tools Squad, Temple Squad, Tool Precinct, Upper West Side.
Speaker 1: I was on my way. I was on the jaw.
Speaker 1: I'm going to interview somebody. UM. I was going over
Speaker 1: the fifty Night Street Bridge and I sort of smoke
Speaker 1: coming from the you know, downtown, and then I actually
Speaker 1: going over the bridge, you can see more and more.
Speaker 1: I could see the twin towers. You see smoke coming out,
Speaker 1: and the first thing in my mind was like a
Speaker 1: Cessna or something like. But it was a perfectly clear day.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, how the Assessna hit twin towers? This
Speaker 1: is retired NYPD Detective Richard Stark. And then as I'm
Speaker 1: looking at it, the second plane hit and I sort
Speaker 1: of I didn't see the plane hit, but I sort
Speaker 1: of blowout on the other side of the building. It's like,
Speaker 1: this is this is the termtives with a rookie detective
Speaker 1: and the bombing of the coal just happened. So um,
Speaker 1: I said to him, I go speaking fin Laden, he's
Speaker 1: behind this night and like everybody, yeah, short bridge, but
Speaker 1: now that's the extra guy was with. That's exactly what
Speaker 1: I said about nine. I arride the canal Street and
Speaker 1: Broadway and uh that why being there waiting to be
Speaker 1: assigned a past because they don't know what the was
Speaker 1: going on. It was like chaotic at that time. So
Speaker 1: at the time we're waiting waiting for assignment the buildings,
Speaker 1: when the buildings came down, and then we just see
Speaker 1: people are running up roadway, like thousands of people and
Speaker 1: they're all covered with dust. And I was grabbing him.
Speaker 1: I had a call, so I was grabbing him that
Speaker 1: want two at a time to take him to St.
Speaker 1: Vincent's Emergency when was the closest hospital. And I went
Speaker 1: back on the fourth I don't know how many times,
Speaker 1: six maybe five or six times, and then just rendering
Speaker 1: first day to people that really didn't have to go
Speaker 1: to hospital. He said, you know, scorting water in their face,
Speaker 1: getting dust out. Um. And then later on in the
Speaker 1: in the day, we were signed post in the perimeter
Speaker 1: of nine eleven in uniform, and then I finished that
Speaker 1: about one in the morning on on September twelve, I
Speaker 1: went home, which I lived, you know, close by from
Speaker 1: the zero. Um. I got about three hours sleep, Uh,
Speaker 1: just into street clothes to the shallows you know, construction
Speaker 1: booths and stuff. I went down to Detective and Dowmint Association,
Speaker 1: which is the you know, the assailiar time. So we
Speaker 1: reported there and there's all volunteer work. At this point,
Speaker 1: anybody can say it was volunteer. It was an assignment.
Speaker 1: So the issue was helmets, mask, Did they have a mask?
Speaker 1: We had the painter's mask to take the mask, gloves,
Speaker 1: and then we all went down to the ground zero
Speaker 1: had to be about six in the morning, and we
Speaker 1: were we you know, coordinated with other you know, steel
Speaker 1: workers and firemen and other cops that were the police officers,
Speaker 1: and we were on top of literally on top of
Speaker 1: the pile the fell and you had to kind of
Speaker 1: circling your way out there. And then we had like
Speaker 1: a we had um with the word for you know,
Speaker 1: like a line of people um just handing like pieces
Speaker 1: of you know, we're trying to like about a brigade. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't buck a brigade, but you could see somebody
Speaker 1: under the rubble or alive or not. And then we
Speaker 1: were just like handling beams and pieces of steel and
Speaker 1: there's one from a guy to the other. We're just
Speaker 1: getting out of the way to clear that area. And
Speaker 1: then if you came up with our body, then we
Speaker 1: would have a gurney and put the body on top
Speaker 1: of them and then we would passed the body because
Speaker 1: those guys on each side, then the body will be
Speaker 1: get passed out or body part um. That was there
Speaker 1: for about UM six thirty to about five in the afternoon. UM.
Speaker 1: At this point I was a wolf and work because
Speaker 1: I was what's so busy to when I was supposed
Speaker 1: to be a work at four o'clock and the other precinct,
Speaker 1: So I, you know, got in touch with them and
Speaker 1: told him what I was doing, and and then I
Speaker 1: had to go from there and go home change and
Speaker 1: they go to work. Two days at the night eleven,
Speaker 1: I was transferred from the two old precinct to the
Speaker 1: first Precinct, Lower Manhattan. UH. They needed help down next
Speaker 1: they was shorthanded a little busy UM and I handled
Speaker 1: cases in the first precinct and what we're here for
Speaker 1: now is one of the cases was the missing personne House.
Speaker 1: Philip Stark has never spoken publicly about this case until now.
Speaker 1: We interviewed him in person during COVID, which is why
Speaker 1: at points he sounds muffled through his mask. For of
Speaker 1: your investigative effort, you checked hospitals, morgues, homeless shelters. Um,
Speaker 1: I n s credit card records. Is that all correct? Um?
Speaker 1: I assume that's relatively standard. Um. Did you recognize this
Speaker 1: as a high profile case early on? Or did did
Speaker 1: you give it any extra effort or attention? No, I
Speaker 1: could say attention I give any case. Um. But but
Speaker 1: I realized it was like a high profile until I
Speaker 1: started seeing um, you know, violence putn't flies all over
Speaker 1: the place. Now that was Manhattan. I found. I was
Speaker 1: seeing him like in my neighborhood. I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm seeing pictures. So far he made up his own flies.
Speaker 1: On September four, two thousand one, at eleven pm, Ron
Speaker 1: filed a written complaint with the NYPD, triggering an official
Speaker 1: investigation into Snake House disappearance. Initially it went to the
Speaker 1: Missing Persons Squad, then it was flagged as a Category
Speaker 1: G case and went to Detective Stark. Can you tell
Speaker 1: me a little bit more about category G. What does
Speaker 1: that include? Category GEZ just they just call a category G.
Speaker 1: But it's the mission person doesn't fall on the missing
Speaker 1: person protocol. If you don't come home tonight and you
Speaker 1: go for know your wife, please say he's missing, to
Speaker 1: go where it's not really missing, because just because he
Speaker 1: could be out, he could have went on just if
Speaker 1: you guys are not getting along. He went on a
Speaker 1: week long trip. But he has to fall under the
Speaker 1: category over a certain age which is seventy two, under
Speaker 1: a certain age which is sixteen on the sixteen, and
Speaker 1: he have to some kind of mental something going on
Speaker 1: physically or mentally that makes you that you can't take
Speaker 1: care of yourself. Then you become a missing person. But
Speaker 1: if you're healthy and you know you're of age, especially
Speaker 1: an active doctor, and you just you know, disappeared, um,
Speaker 1: it's not consider a missing person over a favorite of time.
Speaker 1: Category G is a technical designation. It means that a
Speaker 1: person is quote absent under circumstances indicating unaccountable or involuntary disappearance.
Speaker 1: It requires an immediate investigation. There's two things you want
Speaker 1: to police up on the kind of go with you
Speaker 1: missing and a coupy. You know what the copy is,
Speaker 1: that's an unsolved homicide with they can't determine if it
Speaker 1: was a homicide or not, but they can't say it's
Speaker 1: not a homicide. So it gets the worst. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just pretty much unsolvable most of the time. Not
Speaker 1: well category G. It's sometimes it comes out. Most of
Speaker 1: time it comes out in the bed because the person
Speaker 1: turns out to see someone and so it gets it
Speaker 1: gets kicked back to you guys, you get the case. Um,
Speaker 1: after scanning the initial information, what were your first thoughts
Speaker 1: that did it just stick out? Is this is a
Speaker 1: bizarre case or was it more of a everything is
Speaker 1: chaos right now and this is just everything is chaos
Speaker 1: and there's uh, there's a lot of thousands of people
Speaker 1: doing miss impression reports because they can't just like ron Um,
Speaker 1: you know, he couldn't grasp that she was in the
Speaker 1: building and she's dead. He couldn't grasp he believes she
Speaker 1: was alive and something else happened. He just you know,
Speaker 1: with a denial pretty much. So tell me just about
Speaker 1: your togative steps that you would do in general, but
Speaker 1: specifically with this case. Um, the steps that you took
Speaker 1: and kind of walked me through that process. Well, Cole
Speaker 1: Rono Ron came into the precinct and we sat down
Speaker 1: for an hour or so and tald Um just learn
Speaker 1: more about him and about Snayha and he you know,
Speaker 1: he told me, you know, like I said, I don't
Speaker 1: want to say too much stuff that he she was
Speaker 1: having issues substance abuse, mental illness, marital trouble, legal trouble.
Speaker 1: She was in court that monday. I don't know you
Speaker 1: know about that right m on the on the tent.
Speaker 1: So Um we were just talking about that and he
Speaker 1: believed that she was kidnapped or something else happened. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I was like we'll look into it,
Speaker 1: of course, but I mean just logically, you know, you
Speaker 1: live next to the Trade Center and you're telling me that,
Speaker 1: you know, she said to her mother the night before
Speaker 1: she was going shopping in the in the in the mall,
Speaker 1: um the concourse mall, and in the trade enter. This
Speaker 1: is extremely importon because although snay Hall lived near the
Speaker 1: World Trade Center, according to ron quote, we never go there.
Speaker 1: She had no business there. So in order to believe
Speaker 1: that snay had died at the Trade Center, her family
Speaker 1: had to understand why she was there in the first place.
Speaker 1: They put forth at least four conflicting explanations. One snay
Speaker 1: Hall was shopping at the mall underneath the World Trade Center. Two,
Speaker 1: snay Hall was visiting Windows on the World, the famous
Speaker 1: restaurant on top of the North Tower, in advance of
Speaker 1: a friend's upcoming wedding reception there. Three the night before,
Speaker 1: say attended a party at a hotel next to the
Speaker 1: Trade Center, hosted by the city's quote South Asian community,
Speaker 1: and presumably stayed the night even though she lived only
Speaker 1: nine feet away. And four snay Hall was walking home
Speaker 1: on eleven from somewhere else, passing by the towers just
Speaker 1: as the attacks began. Obviously, snay Hawk could not have
Speaker 1: been shopping at the mall, visiting Windows on the World,
Speaker 1: leaving a hotel next to the towers, and walking home
Speaker 1: from somewhere else all at the same time. But once
Speaker 1: her family settled on the hero narrative that she ran
Speaker 1: into the towers to help victims and died, they needed
Speaker 1: a why to understand why she was there. In the
Speaker 1: early days before the hero narrative. Snay House family genuinely
Speaker 1: thought she was alive, and none of them, especially Ron,
Speaker 1: wanted Detective Stark to prematurely declare snay Ha at nine
Speaker 1: eleven victim. Detective Stark understood that impulse, the desire to
Speaker 1: investigate everything, but to him, nine eleven always made the
Speaker 1: most sense. So I'm just, you know, being a detect
Speaker 1: kind of like leans that way. So I'm just leaning.
Speaker 1: He goes see he understood that a little bit, but
Speaker 1: he had a doubt in his mind this makeup. Can
Speaker 1: I have a doubt my mind. I don't think she's
Speaker 1: out of I don't think she died. I think something
Speaker 1: else happened. So that's why we went through the hole.
Speaker 1: UM and I just got information phone, you know, anybody
Speaker 1: she got contact with. I wish he works. UM. I
Speaker 1: responded to the apartment, looked at video footage. I identified her.
Speaker 1: I don't not face identify. I don't know if um.
Speaker 1: Did Ron tell you about this? So so yeah, so
Speaker 1: they're attree am on nine eleven. There's an image of
Speaker 1: someone that's the blurry image exiting her apartment building. Well,
Speaker 1: it's not blurry that you had the slide and back
Speaker 1: of her. But Ron did state that he recognized the dress, like, well,
Speaker 1: that could be one of addresses, Like he was never
Speaker 1: sure about anything. In the Court Rutgers, he said that
Speaker 1: he did not think that that was her. Yeah, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: well they was leaking towards not thinking. But again he
Speaker 1: was he was really really in denial of this. So
Speaker 1: you got to take that into consideration. Fair enough, but
Speaker 1: I don't buy it. Ron was in a much better
Speaker 1: position to determine whether or not thirty seconds of low
Speaker 1: quality footage actually showed his wife. Were you able visually
Speaker 1: to make an identification of that woman as or how much?
Speaker 1: How certain were you? How much doubt did you not?
Speaker 1: Not not a facial you no, no, not a positive idea?
Speaker 1: What made you ninety percent sure? Just how mannerisms? Seeing
Speaker 1: how watching her video for like hours and hours and
Speaker 1: Century one, the way she walks, the way, her mannerisms
Speaker 1: and she had the exact same mannerisms, say the night
Speaker 1: before you know, Century This doesn't make any sense. The
Speaker 1: Century twenty one footage includes only a few frames of
Speaker 1: snay Ha, making it next to impossible to compare it
Speaker 1: to thirty seconds of a different low quality video and
Speaker 1: declare with certainty that the woman who exited to Rector
Speaker 1: Place at eight three am on nine eleven was actually
Speaker 1: snay ha. If it was snay Haa the woman on
Speaker 1: video at three, why wouldn't she have her shopping bags
Speaker 1: because she had stayed somewhere else the night of the tent.
Speaker 1: Then she was coming out of apartment, she was going shot.
Speaker 1: So so you so you think that that person in
Speaker 1: the video was already in the building, It wasn't because
Speaker 1: I've read that speculation that it was something that walked
Speaker 1: in and then turned around and walked out. So you
Speaker 1: did that video show somebody entering the building and exiting
Speaker 1: or just exiting the building, exiting, attended a lobby for
Speaker 1: a few maybe exiting with that that would indicate that
Speaker 1: she was in the building. Though and Ron said later
Speaker 1: on that Um and the family said that they were
Speaker 1: not able to find any sign that she had been
Speaker 1: in the apartment. That's a big question, walk. That was
Speaker 1: always a big question. Walk. It's also a big deal.
Speaker 1: Detective Stark just said that he thinks Nah was inside
Speaker 1: her apartment on the morning of nine eleven, then exited
Speaker 1: the building at three, only three minutes before American Airlines
Speaker 1: flight eleven hit the North Tower fet away. If true,
Speaker 1: if that means that either sna did come home late
Speaker 1: nine or early nine eleven and Ron lied when he
Speaker 1: said she did not come home, or she snuck into
Speaker 1: her apartment after Ron left for work and left no trace,
Speaker 1: or Detective Stark is wrong. The woman at forty three
Speaker 1: is not snay Ha. Snay Hall was not in the apartment.
Speaker 1: One thing that would help answer this question is being
Speaker 1: able to see the digital photos Ron took when he
Speaker 1: returned to the apartment on September twelve, two one, Because
Speaker 1: according to Ron, snay Ha left behind her passport, I
Speaker 1: D wallet, glasses and other critical belongings. What do the
Speaker 1: photos show? Do they show the passport, I D wallet
Speaker 1: and glasses? Do they show any signs snay how it
Speaker 1: was in the apartment after I don't know. There's also
Speaker 1: a crucial witness who could help clear this up. His
Speaker 1: name is Jimmy Nelson. He's the doorman who worked the
Speaker 1: night shift that Ron and snay Haus building from eleven
Speaker 1: pm on nine ten until seven am on nine eleven.
Speaker 1: If anyone saw snay return or ro On leave, it
Speaker 1: would have been Jimmy. Unfortunately, he did not respond to
Speaker 1: interview requests. Finally, the apartments security footage is also vital
Speaker 1: to Rector has at least three entrances, front, back, and side.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they were all covered by cameras
Speaker 1: in two thousand one. The front definitely was the rest.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Do the tapes show Snajab returning home
Speaker 1: one or early nine eleven? Do they verify Ron's story?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't have access to the footage.
Speaker 1: I contacted the company that owns two Rector the related
Speaker 1: companies to see if they saved nine ten and or
Speaker 1: nine eleven security footage. They never responded. The NYPD probably
Speaker 1: has the tapes, but it denied me access to most
Speaker 1: case files. Finally, there was at least one big flaw
Speaker 1: with the NYPDS investigation. According to court records. To tell
Speaker 1: to Stark did not watch all of the security footage.
Speaker 1: He testified that he did see Snay leave the building
Speaker 1: around five pm on nine ten, and the mystery woman
Speaker 1: who he thinks is Snay, exit at eight forty three
Speaker 1: am on nine eleven, but he did not watch all
Speaker 1: of the footage between five pm on nine ten and
Speaker 1: eight forty three am on nine eleven, fifteen and a
Speaker 1: half hours of footage. I don't think anyone has ever.
Speaker 1: Let's return for a minute to the mystery call placed
Speaker 1: at four oh five am on nine eleven from Ron
Speaker 1: and snay house apartment landline to Ron's cell phone. Ron
Speaker 1: said he was alone in the apartment at the time
Speaker 1: and that half asleep, he probably used the landline to
Speaker 1: dial his cell to see if snay Hall left him
Speaker 1: a voicemail, but he has no memory of making the call,
Speaker 1: so more or less he thinks he's sleep dialed his
Speaker 1: cell from his landline. To me, it's just odd. I
Speaker 1: get that nine eleven was traumatic, but this is such
Speaker 1: a critical detail. Did he did he give you an
Speaker 1: explanation about what that he couldn't. Do you have any
Speaker 1: idea did you find any reasonable explanation of because he
Speaker 1: said he didn't remember that a good feeling. I saw
Speaker 1: her leave the next morning and she was going to
Speaker 1: said to her mother who I was the night before?
Speaker 1: She was going shopping the ground that it just all
Speaker 1: went together. Do you think coinences Do you think she
Speaker 1: was in the apartment? Done? Yes? See it? Then? Do
Speaker 1: you ross story was that he was? He was He
Speaker 1: got home around eleven fifteen, and that he left I
Speaker 1: think six thirty in the morning on nine eleven, um,
Speaker 1: and that he never Yeah, so do you think she
Speaker 1: entered there's there's there's some discrepancy. She either entered after
Speaker 1: he left or she was there and he's not telling
Speaker 1: the truth. Do you have any indication of it could be? Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean he changed the story about three or four
Speaker 1: times with me to the whole investigation, so it's possible
Speaker 1: he's lying. Or when you say changed the story three
Speaker 1: or four times, any specific details or what do you
Speaker 1: mean by that? Um, just saying that she was taught
Speaker 1: she wasn't plot of Night eleven, that she was kidnapped,
Speaker 1: and then later on what was real? Later on he
Speaker 1: said she was plating Night eleven, But um story or
Speaker 1: what what she did? Like she was adopted in community
Speaker 1: and you know the situation happened. Now, the situation he's
Speaker 1: referring to is the incident in which Snay had claimed
Speaker 1: a fellow doctor sexually assaulted her in a bar, then
Speaker 1: allegedly recanted and harassed the doctor and his wife, UM
Speaker 1: and affilly with the brother, the brother's girlfriend. And you know,
Speaker 1: he just he said it didn't happen, and the brother
Speaker 1: said it, you know, said it, didn't you know what
Speaker 1: she thought? He was inconsistent with some things. The quote
Speaker 1: story with the brother and the brother's girlfriend. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: Detective Stark did not want to go into detail with
Speaker 1: me out of respect for snay House family. But years
Speaker 1: ago in court, Start said that snay has younger brother,
Speaker 1: John told him that shortly before nine eleven, John walked
Speaker 1: in on and his girlfriend having sex. John later denied
Speaker 1: telling this to Start. In fact, he denied speaking to
Speaker 1: Start at all. So figuring out her, say has final
Speaker 1: movements and communications on um, how did you go about
Speaker 1: doing that? Just interviewing people? Can you talk about did
Speaker 1: you actually visit CenTra one and view the footage or
Speaker 1: was it sent to you? No, I was. I went
Speaker 1: to I can't remember how we I think it was.
Speaker 1: I think it was credit card uh usage. That's how
Speaker 1: we found figured out she was there once we did UM. No,
Speaker 1: he was finding that I was there for like four
Speaker 1: or five hours video because it's I wish I had
Speaker 1: the video I have now in this building. But it's
Speaker 1: the old time. You know, it wasn't um motion sense.
Speaker 1: You know, you had to look at the whole thing.
Speaker 1: So ron Ron said that he spent several weeks going
Speaker 1: and looking at that video too, and then he found her.
Speaker 1: Um did you view it after he did? Or beef?
Speaker 1: Did you who found her first? On the UM? And
Speaker 1: I assume he probably was looking for other signs of
Speaker 1: her and probably if you was, what was what somebody else?
Speaker 1: You know who? Anybody could be anybody, but she wasn't
Speaker 1: you know, she was by the whole time on what
Speaker 1: I viewed. So that that's that's a very interesting point
Speaker 1: because the last person to see her live was a
Speaker 1: shoe salesperson, Sonya Mora the next floor. I never looked
Speaker 1: at that footage. I just sent and what And so
Speaker 1: the last person to see her a live said that, well, frankly,
Speaker 1: their discrepancies with this um I've seen and read in
Speaker 1: different records that um that Snayhu was with someone, that
Speaker 1: she wasn't with someone that the sales clerk thought she
Speaker 1: might be with someone, you know, versus a story that
Speaker 1: the sales clerk was definitively sure and that had she
Speaker 1: had talked to them and they said they were going,
Speaker 1: you know, somewhere else afterwards, it seems kind of murky
Speaker 1: do you have did you ever determine whether or not
Speaker 1: UM with any certainty? Snayho was with anyone? That? No, No,
Speaker 1: she wasn't you know that? I said, only view the
Speaker 1: center one video. I don't know, why do you? I don't.
Speaker 1: I can't remember why. I don't if it wasn't available,
Speaker 1: it was, it was part of sent it wasn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just a different, different part. Yeah, but you
Speaker 1: didn't viewing the video, you didn't see any photographic evidence,
Speaker 1: videographic evidence that's the hose with anybody else, because that
Speaker 1: would have been key, that would have been a key
Speaker 1: part of it to find out who that person was. UM,
Speaker 1: do you have any reason to doubt the story of
Speaker 1: the person the last person to see her, who insinuated
Speaker 1: or said that she was with somebody else? Maybe she
Speaker 1: just met somebody, was talking to somebody and you know
Speaker 1: that that I didn't see anybody what the um like,
Speaker 1: you know, next to her or talking to her. Um,
Speaker 1: But no, I don't know. Maybe he just missed him
Speaker 1: to maybe he thought the person was with her. Uh so,
Speaker 1: UM was it a male female? She said it was
Speaker 1: a female. So you obtained UM call records? Did you
Speaker 1: explain tell me tell me about that. Can you get
Speaker 1: these records? These are calling people? Did you contact Rizon?
Speaker 1: How do you investigate that at the time? Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you have subpoena and um, you know sub minute to
Speaker 1: the horizon. I believe it was a rising at the time,
Speaker 1: and then you just get the records of the you know,
Speaker 1: any phone calls. Like I said, it's twenty years ago,
Speaker 1: but I think Ron even supplied some phone records. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: and so you got I assumed the phone wreckers for
Speaker 1: the apartment landline. Did you also get any cell phone
Speaker 1: wreckers from either Snaha or Ron? Yes, I don't. I
Speaker 1: know what I remember her phone was nothing, no activity
Speaker 1: on her phone rule after nine eleven. This is another discrepancy.
Speaker 1: Detective Stark says that snay Hot did have a cell phone.
Speaker 1: Ron said she did not. To be fair, we're talking
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. Memories fade and these are very specific questions.
Speaker 1: Do you know this is a question I wasn't able
Speaker 1: to tell from the records. Um, via the records, it
Speaker 1: seemed that she did not have a cellphone, but that
Speaker 1: he did have a cellphone. Does that seem accurate? I
Speaker 1: don't even Yeah, myself just had a phone for two
Speaker 1: years at that point. Something that I noticed, um in
Speaker 1: the records is that there's no mention of a pager,
Speaker 1: and since she was a doctor, she almost certainly would
Speaker 1: have had a pager. Um, do you have any recollection
Speaker 1: of either finding or obtaining a pager that she left behind,
Speaker 1: or of obtaining records related to her pager? No? I
Speaker 1: just I thought that was kind of odd because I've
Speaker 1: talked to people that worked with her, and obviously she
Speaker 1: was a doctor. Um, she certainly would have had a
Speaker 1: pager at the time. She was worth in the St.
Speaker 1: Vincent's Instan Island and she was on like modified duty.
Speaker 1: I don't know what she did when she went to work,
Speaker 1: but she wasn't doing any like you know, she was modified.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means in a medical field.
Speaker 1: As part of his investigation, Detective Stark visited St. Vincent,
Speaker 1: the hospital We're snay how worked for only ten weeks
Speaker 1: before she disappeared. According to Stark, sna was having trouble
Speaker 1: at her new job and was on quote modified duty.
Speaker 1: Plus she was off work one and nine eleven, So
Speaker 1: I don't know if she had a pager, either personal
Speaker 1: or professional with her. On the day she vanished, and
Speaker 1: I've seen no indication that the nyp D examined any
Speaker 1: pager records. So you get this case. Obviously, this put
Speaker 1: it into context again of the chaos of nine eleven
Speaker 1: and the fact that there are six thousand people who
Speaker 1: are alleged missing and the daily news is ten thousands
Speaker 1: fear dead, and so I think it's important to put
Speaker 1: it in context that it was chaotic and at the time,
Speaker 1: beyond the three thousand people that died, Um, you know,
Speaker 1: there were thousands of other people. You do blicates of
Speaker 1: different people listening their love the ones that's missing. Um,
Speaker 1: when you got this, did you immediately think nine of
Speaker 1: it World Trade Center? That's the answer or well, it's
Speaker 1: not the answer, but it's what I thought at first.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't the answer. You know, what do you
Speaker 1: mean by that? I mean, it's always a possibility to
Speaker 1: what Ron saying. So that's why we got the case
Speaker 1: and we looked into it. We just dismissed it as
Speaker 1: it's just part of nine eleven. There was a lot
Speaker 1: of like I said, I told you Anifolias. You know,
Speaker 1: the average homicide has one box of files. This case
Speaker 1: had two box to files. There was a lot more
Speaker 1: work done, you know, um on this case than like
Speaker 1: a homicide. Well, it became a tide profile. Then we
Speaker 1: got you know, not that we we've done more work,
Speaker 1: but it just the family was pricing, was involved, they
Speaker 1: hired a private investigator. UM, so it became more well involved.
Speaker 1: What would what would be in those two boxes? What
Speaker 1: kind of when you say two boxes of records or files? Um,
Speaker 1: mostly like the forms of DV five which at any
Speaker 1: time we talked to somebody like right now and talk
Speaker 1: to you. If I was detective interviewing you. After a
Speaker 1: interview you writing everything down, I would go to the
Speaker 1: typewriter of a crime and have computer and the type
Speaker 1: out of DD five about the whole conversation. We just had,
Speaker 1: so a lot of those and then phone records, any
Speaker 1: records anything to deal with the case, video footage. I
Speaker 1: tried to get the records, d N y p D
Speaker 1: would not confirm whether or not they even exist. So
Speaker 1: in terms of alternate explanations, UM, how seriously did you
Speaker 1: consider suicide foul play either you know, kidnapping or murder
Speaker 1: or the fact that she possibly just ran off. Um.
Speaker 1: I learned I'll lean more towards possible because of the situation.
Speaker 1: But she was in I know that she just had
Speaker 1: a fight with Ron that night, the night before Starkness spoke.
Speaker 1: He meant the morning before the morning of possible suicide
Speaker 1: and possibly just ran off those two possibilities. You don't
Speaker 1: believe foul play is even possible though, No, I've seen
Speaker 1: no reason in it. I don't see I mean talking
Speaker 1: about what like, uh, well, in the beginning, maybe we
Speaker 1: just looked at Ron saying because you know, the day
Speaker 1: to fight, and yeah, we have all options are opened
Speaker 1: that he possibly did something to him. That was that
Speaker 1: was on the table too in the beginning, In the beginning,
Speaker 1: how do you how do you walk the line between
Speaker 1: balancing the possibility that this is the family of a
Speaker 1: possible nine eleven victim with also your responsibility is a
Speaker 1: detective to look at people around her and close to
Speaker 1: her and consider them, but you know, responsibly consider them
Speaker 1: as potential suspects. How do you how did you walk
Speaker 1: that line? Oh, just deal with him and like I'm
Speaker 1: doing with you now, and just feel him out and
Speaker 1: you could just learn from his character and you know
Speaker 1: how to act and all the time, I mean me
Speaker 1: and Ron meant about thirty times, so we were always meeting.
Speaker 1: He's always coming over the precinct, and but he's got
Speaker 1: to I just didn't see it and him doing it,
Speaker 1: that's all, and doing anything banta huh. That's all he seemed.
Speaker 1: I mean, he seemed to straw, and he seemed like
Speaker 1: he really fought hard. But he felt more destrough and
Speaker 1: hard because of the fight they had. And I think,
Speaker 1: deep deep down, he he felt he was splot at
Speaker 1: Night eleven, but he had he was just in denial
Speaker 1: and he was just wants to keep all options open
Speaker 1: because he was guilty about having a fight with them,
Speaker 1: like the last time he saw her, they had a fight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what when you say fight, what do you what do
Speaker 1: you mean? I've read that they fought outside of the court.
Speaker 1: You're talking about something at the apartment or outside the court,
Speaker 1: and you know, I guess that. Well, I don't know
Speaker 1: what they I don't not sure what they did after
Speaker 1: the court, if they went back to their appointment. I
Speaker 1: can't remember. He's he said that. They said that. He
Speaker 1: said they went back to the apartment, and he was
Speaker 1: just saying that they were He just remembers I remember
Speaker 1: him saying that he just remember shads, you know, they
Speaker 1: were fighting the last time he saw. Um, what about
Speaker 1: the other family members? I mean, obviously, Uh, the interview
Speaker 1: with her younger brother John is something that is a
Speaker 1: point of contention. Um, what can you tell me about
Speaker 1: interviewing him? Like I said, I don't want to stay
Speaker 1: nothing bad about but you know, people they think I
Speaker 1: made you know, why would I make some story like
Speaker 1: that up? But I'm talking to him and he's telling me,
Speaker 1: you know, if we told for like an hour his
Speaker 1: own Yeah, well there was an incident that this happened
Speaker 1: that again, John allegedly walked in on snay having sex
Speaker 1: with his girlfriend. And then I'm like, oh, okay, well
Speaker 1: all right, you know, not that happened, that snow breaking.
Speaker 1: That's that's how that happened. But that's what he and
Speaker 1: he was concerned about. And also huh Stark asked me
Speaker 1: to go off the record, which we did briefly. Later
Speaker 1: in court, the family said and the younger brother, John
Speaker 1: said that you made that up, that it's not true.
Speaker 1: What did you think when you heard that? Because somebody,
Speaker 1: somebody's telling the truth. Who's telling this? The first time
Speaker 1: I heard that was read. It was in the new
Speaker 1: tape of auticle. I tried calling nuth they wouldn't talk
Speaker 1: to me. I'm saying, it's a lie. You know, you
Speaker 1: gotta you know this is what he told me. And
Speaker 1: they're saying that I made it up. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: why would I take that up? Why? I mean, think
Speaker 1: about it. You know, it's not affecting the case. It's
Speaker 1: not gonna Why don't I just come out of that
Speaker 1: and make something like that? He lying, yes, he's lying
Speaker 1: that he didn't tell If he saying he didn't tell
Speaker 1: me that, then he's lying. Yes. Well he won't even
Speaker 1: further um because he was It was probably Ron probably
Speaker 1: yelled at him and you know, and made him say
Speaker 1: that he didn't say it just sounds bad the family,
Speaker 1: to the whole family, to the situation. Well, it went't
Speaker 1: even further um. You know, years later, and I think
Speaker 1: it was part of the court proceeding, uh that John
Speaker 1: Snay has brother denied even ever talking to you. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: I probably have a paperwork saying, you know, when I
Speaker 1: I said anything I told somebody I do to d
Speaker 1: D five and that's on record that I told me.
Speaker 1: Why why do you think he would deny even talking
Speaker 1: to you or change his story. I don't know. Maybe
Speaker 1: the family got to him Ron saying, you know, you
Speaker 1: can't say a bit stuff about saying how like this
Speaker 1: and you know say you didn't say it. You know,
Speaker 1: did you feel you were getting straight answers when you
Speaker 1: interviewed the family? Uh? Yes, yes, Like I said, they're
Speaker 1: all in denial, so I can't say anything you straight
Speaker 1: answers because you know to the denial they were in
Speaker 1: that she was not with us anymore. Um, but no, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah they will the filmily was you know, I talked
Speaker 1: to the parents on the phone only and they was
Speaker 1: just very distraught and I just told him what I
Speaker 1: was doing. They asked me questions and then I didn't
Speaker 1: really get into anything else stuff for that. The question
Speaker 1: did you review snay has final emails? Um? Any records
Speaker 1: of final calls? We talked about that instant messages? Did
Speaker 1: you have a chance I can't remember. Is the one
Speaker 1: to the mother saying she's going shopping the next early morning?
Speaker 1: That the traits? Then did you actually did you hear
Speaker 1: that from the mother? Did you actually get a copy
Speaker 1: of her communication? I had a copy communication, So you
Speaker 1: read it, read it over um other than the mother.
Speaker 1: Do you remember if there was anybody who she spoke
Speaker 1: to the afternoon of the tenth. Also remember is arguing
Speaker 1: with Ron and talking to her mother. That was That
Speaker 1: was here we have yet another discrepancy. No one disputes
Speaker 1: that snay House spoke with her mom onto right before
Speaker 1: she disappeared, But apparently she also spoke with one or
Speaker 1: both of her brothers, and I don't know what she said.
Speaker 1: According to an archived copy of a website created by Snayhouse,
Speaker 1: all their brother Ashwyn snay Hawk communicated with Ashwyn via
Speaker 1: instant messenger at two thirty pm on September, But according
Speaker 1: to a different source, a Newsday article written by Hugo Kogia,
Speaker 1: snay Ha sent emails to her mother and younger brother
Speaker 1: John at two thirty and three pm. Hugo interviewed John
Speaker 1: for the story, which Newsday published only two weeks after
Speaker 1: nine eleven, So presumably it was John himself who said
Speaker 1: that Say emailed him right before she disappeared. One brother
Speaker 1: says snay Haw communicated with him via instant messenger. One
Speaker 1: said she emailed him. Neither mentions. The other brother neither
Speaker 1: reveals with Snaha actually said, have you ever have you
Speaker 1: been interviewed in the last ten or fifteen years at all?
Speaker 1: About nine eleven were this case? Oh no, when's the
Speaker 1: last time you're Have you ever been interviewed about this case? Um? No,
Speaker 1: I turned it down by they wanted to interview my
Speaker 1: lest year on a job and I was advised to talk,
Speaker 1: you know, not not to do it. So this is
Speaker 1: the first interview he's getting all this case. Um do
Speaker 1: you still have any case records or case files or
Speaker 1: anything that I don't somewhere? I don't know. So do
Speaker 1: typically those two boxes that you collected? Would they be
Speaker 1: thrown in a warehouse or art It would take a
Speaker 1: while to find them. If I have to find out
Speaker 1: who would be in charge of that, I don't even know.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I've been out sixteen years now, so
Speaker 1: everything is different now, please, department is totally different. Stark
Speaker 1: left the NYPD in two thousand five. Hm. Is there
Speaker 1: anything I'm missing? I've gone over my major points, But
Speaker 1: I anything that you want to say anything that? No,
Speaker 1: Just that I was into this case at the time
Speaker 1: a lot, you know, I mean when I was off
Speaker 1: duty because I was a neighbor. I've looked down any
Speaker 1: square and I see you. Yeah. I actually went so
Speaker 1: far as to follow a lady and stop her, and
Speaker 1: I was nuts. She was in you know, actually come
Speaker 1: out of hospital and scrubs actually just like you know,
Speaker 1: look like her. But it wasn't how one size I
Speaker 1: d card in the face was just the same size hair.
Speaker 1: She was endian. But you know that's how I was
Speaker 1: into this, not too many case. I'm into when I'm
Speaker 1: more duty. When I was working. When when was that?
Speaker 1: Was that? Sorally? After that had to be a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, you know when Ron put all the flies out,
Speaker 1: had him at over the place. UM As an investigator,
Speaker 1: when you're dealing with families that are suffering and trying
Speaker 1: to figure out what happened to their loved one, to
Speaker 1: missing loved one, how do you balance a sense of
Speaker 1: compassion and doing what the family wants with drawing a
Speaker 1: line and saying I've done all I can do? How
Speaker 1: do you how do you find that line? And then
Speaker 1: how do you convey that to the families? Well, it
Speaker 1: gives compassion is much you can you know, typing a
Speaker 1: personality what you like and then they know you have
Speaker 1: to do your job, and I want you to do
Speaker 1: your job, so you have to, you know, the compassionate,
Speaker 1: be nice, but I always was. Um Ron got nasty
Speaker 1: it to me, but I kept my I just you know,
Speaker 1: I never got an asked to him because I know
Speaker 1: what he was going through the same time, the same
Speaker 1: time she's going on. They you mentioned the what people
Speaker 1: the compassion One of the other Jaws detective was to
Speaker 1: go to uh An Armory and it was an interview area.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know about that. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: you don't know, like hundreds of people outside online. We
Speaker 1: go there and I was interviewing families and these families
Speaker 1: were like I don't understand. Like I was talking to
Speaker 1: my son and all of a sudden, how to talk
Speaker 1: to him? And you know, I need to need to
Speaker 1: check the hospitals, and I know what fool is he on?
Speaker 1: And it said something like the ninety four, which is
Speaker 1: a bug. Would have fined it like and it works
Speaker 1: for cancer, the sheralds. So I'm like, so I left
Speaker 1: him talk and I'm like, sorry you were what could
Speaker 1: have happened? And he just put his head down and
Speaker 1: he's on the upper floors above the plane and if
Speaker 1: you know, and they still you know, in denial, but
Speaker 1: you know they kind of was setting in. But we
Speaker 1: had an interview, and it's families because they were they
Speaker 1: wanted to know what happened to them love one, especially
Speaker 1: when they were talking to them, you know, at the
Speaker 1: same time on the phone. And I just went to
Speaker 1: what was what was it like just for you as
Speaker 1: a New Yorker in the immediate days and weeks after?
Speaker 1: I mean, I do I do you have clear memories
Speaker 1: of it or is it just kind of a blur
Speaker 1: because it was right now to talking about it brings
Speaker 1: back memories, but it's got to blur in general. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: the whole day and just like I said, the day
Speaker 1: after the twelve that went down, now, um, you know,
Speaker 1: like I was on a pile voluntarily and then I'm
Speaker 1: pretty shore was the third afternoon or the morning of
Speaker 1: the thirteenth that the wind change and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: the smell of nine eleven was coming into the window
Speaker 1: of my apartment and my wife was like, what the
Speaker 1: happen is that? What was that smell? And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it just remind me of burn of flesh, That's what
Speaker 1: it smells like, you know, like I said, like disintegrated,
Speaker 1: Like this is that powder that was coming all over
Speaker 1: the That was a lot of those human remains that
Speaker 1: was disintegrated from the heat of that, you know, defian
Speaker 1: from the jet fuel. Stark still suffers lingering health effects
Speaker 1: from the time he spent volunteering at Ground zero when
Speaker 1: he wasn't investigating this case. One of the things that
Speaker 1: I thought was interesting is in court you said that
Speaker 1: you believe this case is closed and the leads are exhausted,
Speaker 1: but you did not use the words solved to you
Speaker 1: specifically avoided using the words solved. Can you explain, well,
Speaker 1: technically not solved until DNA pop came up from nine eleven,
Speaker 1: so you can't say hundred, you know, until a DNA
Speaker 1: pop shows from the remains you mentioned a few weeks
Speaker 1: after nine eleven seeing someone who looked like her. There's
Speaker 1: a uniquip. Do you do you still feel like you're
Speaker 1: sometimes even though you believe she died in the towers
Speaker 1: that you kind of keep an eye out to see
Speaker 1: if come my brain Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: always say if I see any kind of medical but
Speaker 1: my my my brother was the doctor. He's name. He's
Speaker 1: from going so. Um even when I see anybody in yeah,
Speaker 1: I do think about it. If I see from in
Speaker 1: the hospital, will I see a doctor or you know,
Speaker 1: that's just you know it's Indian has the teat and
Speaker 1: she pops in my mind. How's the family doing? You
Speaker 1: keep in contact with him? I've talked loosely with them,
Speaker 1: but they just don't monitor New York. So the father died, uh,
Speaker 1: I believe a year or two ago. Um, So's he's gone.
Speaker 1: The mom still lives upstate. At Ron lives in California.
Speaker 1: I remember him. And then the brothers, Um one is
Speaker 1: in the city, and then I I'm not sure the
Speaker 1: other one I think is in Florida. So, but they're
Speaker 1: they're all still around. I mean Ron's and I've the
Speaker 1: mother mom Onto and Ron have just did polite least
Speaker 1: hold me that they just don't want to talk to anyone. Um. John,
Speaker 1: the younger brother, is on the fence about talking. So
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of for me. It's kind of hard
Speaker 1: because I want to be fair and you know, there's
Speaker 1: there's what you have from an investigation in court records,
Speaker 1: and I want to tell the story of who she
Speaker 1: was as a person because she had thirty one years
Speaker 1: on the planet. She was, you know, she's a human being,
Speaker 1: beyond gated about five years she graduated, I think from
Speaker 1: medical school. Ye, I think, I'm pretty sure in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I mean she had only been married a
Speaker 1: year and a half, not that long. Um, so you know.
Speaker 1: I then you just see that the photos of that wedding. Yeah,
Speaker 1: some wedding, right, Yeah, I see. I've seen some video
Speaker 1: from it too. Hey, I appreciate it. Um. I don't
Speaker 1: know what I've missed. Always pour over my nose fifty
Speaker 1: thousand times, but um, you know, any any final words
Speaker 1: and summary. I think she was a good person, A
Speaker 1: little confused. I'm not sure how good of a docks
Speaker 1: she watches Rere New so how good I don't know, um,
Speaker 1: but I do feel, you know, my gut nent that
Speaker 1: she was of nine eleven, that's what she pet. She
Speaker 1: passed away, and I just feel bad for the family
Speaker 1: and and Ron. I hope he's going okay in California. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I appreciate it. Okay, welcome good
Speaker 1: next time I'm missing on nine eleven. The fact show
Speaker 1: that everybody would be entitled to Destiny that they died
Speaker 1: at the trade Center for two people, and one of
Speaker 1: the two was and Philip homework this week? One do
Speaker 1: you work for the NYPD and have access to the
Speaker 1: Snay Half Philip case files? Do you know if they
Speaker 1: even still exist? Two? Do you know Jimmy Nelson, the
Speaker 1: doorman who worked the eleven to seven shift at Rectord
Speaker 1: Place A nine ten and nine eleven? Three? Did you
Speaker 1: work at St. Vincent's medical center on Staten Island in
Speaker 1: two thousand one? If so, you can reach us by
Speaker 1: phone at one eight three three New Tips. That's one
Speaker 1: eight three three six three nine eight four seven seven
Speaker 1: again one eight three three six three nine eight four
Speaker 1: seven seven, or you can reach us via email at
Speaker 1: tips at iHeart media dot com. That's Tips, T I
Speaker 1: P s at iHeart media dot com. Ben Bollen is
Speaker 1: our executive producer. Paul Decan is our supervising producer, Chris
Speaker 1: Brown is our assistant producer. Seth Nicholas Johnson is our producer.
Speaker 1: Sam T. Garden is our research assistant, and I'm your
Speaker 1: host and executive producer John Walzack. Cover art by Pam Peacock.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Tamika Campbell at I Heart and to
Speaker 1: Christoph Zaprey in New Orleans. Also thank you to Detective
Speaker 1: Richard Stark and ASoP Rock. Original theme music by ASoP Rock.
Speaker 1: Check out asops website at ASoP rock dot com. You
Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter at at John wallzac j
Speaker 1: O n W A L C C A K. If
Speaker 1: you like this show, check out our first season, Missing
Speaker 1: in Alaska, about the nineteen seventy two disappearance of two congressmen.
Speaker 1: Missing on nine eleven is a co production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Greenfork Media