1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: From my Heart Radio. This is missing on nine eleven, 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: the story of one woman who vanished on the eve 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,319 Speaker 1: of history and my quest to find her. I'm your host, 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: John Wallzac. Well, you know, before I get into this 5 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: particular case, UM, tell me about your nine eleven experience. 6 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: What what happened? Where were you? Um? I was working 7 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: in the Tools Squad, Temple Squad, Tool Precinct, Upper West Side. 8 00:00:57,840 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: I was on my way. I was on the jaw. 9 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to interview somebody. UM. I was going over 10 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: the fifty Night Street Bridge and I sort of smoke 11 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: coming from the you know, downtown, and then I actually 12 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: going over the bridge, you can see more and more. 13 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: I could see the twin towers. You see smoke coming out, 14 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: and the first thing in my mind was like a 15 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: Cessna or something like. But it was a perfectly clear day. 16 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: So I'm like, how the Assessna hit twin towers? This 17 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: is retired NYPD Detective Richard Stark. And then as I'm 18 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: looking at it, the second plane hit and I sort 19 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: of I didn't see the plane hit, but I sort 20 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: of blowout on the other side of the building. It's like, 21 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: this is this is the termtives with a rookie detective 22 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: and the bombing of the coal just happened. So um, 23 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: I said to him, I go speaking fin Laden, he's 24 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: behind this night and like everybody, yeah, short bridge, but 25 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: now that's the extra guy was with. That's exactly what 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: I said about nine. I arride the canal Street and 27 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: Broadway and uh that why being there waiting to be 28 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: assigned a past because they don't know what the was 29 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: going on. It was like chaotic at that time. So 30 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: at the time we're waiting waiting for assignment the buildings, 31 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: when the buildings came down, and then we just see 32 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: people are running up roadway, like thousands of people and 33 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: they're all covered with dust. And I was grabbing him. 34 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: I had a call, so I was grabbing him that 35 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: want two at a time to take him to St. 36 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: Vincent's Emergency when was the closest hospital. And I went 37 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: back on the fourth I don't know how many times, 38 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: six maybe five or six times, and then just rendering 39 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: first day to people that really didn't have to go 40 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: to hospital. He said, you know, scorting water in their face, 41 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: getting dust out. Um. And then later on in the 42 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: in the day, we were signed post in the perimeter 43 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: of nine eleven in uniform, and then I finished that 44 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: about one in the morning on on September twelve, I 45 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: went home, which I lived, you know, close by from 46 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: the zero. Um. I got about three hours sleep, Uh, 47 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: just into street clothes to the shallows you know, construction 48 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: booths and stuff. I went down to Detective and Dowmint Association, 49 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: which is the you know, the assailiar time. So we 50 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: reported there and there's all volunteer work. At this point, 51 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: anybody can say it was volunteer. It was an assignment. 52 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: So the issue was helmets, mask, Did they have a mask? 53 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: We had the painter's mask to take the mask, gloves, 54 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: and then we all went down to the ground zero 55 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: had to be about six in the morning, and we 56 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: were we you know, coordinated with other you know, steel 57 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: workers and firemen and other cops that were the police officers, 58 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: and we were on top of literally on top of 59 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: the pile the fell and you had to kind of 60 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: circling your way out there. And then we had like 61 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: a we had um with the word for you know, 62 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: like a line of people um just handing like pieces 63 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: of you know, we're trying to like about a brigade. Yeah, 64 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: I can't buck a brigade, but you could see somebody 65 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: under the rubble or alive or not. And then we 66 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: were just like handling beams and pieces of steel and 67 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: there's one from a guy to the other. We're just 68 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: getting out of the way to clear that area. And 69 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: then if you came up with our body, then we 70 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: would have a gurney and put the body on top 71 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: of them and then we would passed the body because 72 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: those guys on each side, then the body will be 73 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: get passed out or body part um. That was there 74 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: for about UM six thirty to about five in the afternoon. UM. 75 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: At this point I was a wolf and work because 76 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: I was what's so busy to when I was supposed 77 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: to be a work at four o'clock and the other precinct, 78 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: So I, you know, got in touch with them and 79 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: told him what I was doing, and and then I 80 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: had to go from there and go home change and 81 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: they go to work. Two days at the night eleven, 82 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: I was transferred from the two old precinct to the 83 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: first Precinct, Lower Manhattan. UH. They needed help down next 84 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: they was shorthanded a little busy UM and I handled 85 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: cases in the first precinct and what we're here for 86 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: now is one of the cases was the missing personne House. 87 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: Philip Stark has never spoken publicly about this case until now. 88 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: We interviewed him in person during COVID, which is why 89 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: at points he sounds muffled through his mask. For of 90 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: your investigative effort, you checked hospitals, morgues, homeless shelters. Um, 91 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: I n s credit card records. Is that all correct? Um? 92 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: I assume that's relatively standard. Um. Did you recognize this 93 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: as a high profile case early on? Or did did 94 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: you give it any extra effort or attention? No, I 95 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: could say attention I give any case. Um. But but 96 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: I realized it was like a high profile until I 97 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: started seeing um, you know, violence putn't flies all over 98 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: the place. Now that was Manhattan. I found. I was 99 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: seeing him like in my neighborhood. I was like, you know, 100 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: I'm seeing pictures. So far he made up his own flies. 101 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: On September four, two thousand one, at eleven pm, Ron 102 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: filed a written complaint with the NYPD, triggering an official 103 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: investigation into Snake House disappearance. Initially it went to the 104 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: Missing Persons Squad, then it was flagged as a Category 105 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: G case and went to Detective Stark. Can you tell 106 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: me a little bit more about category G. What does 107 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: that include? Category GEZ just they just call a category G. 108 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: But it's the mission person doesn't fall on the missing 109 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: person protocol. If you don't come home tonight and you 110 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: go for know your wife, please say he's missing, to 111 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: go where it's not really missing, because just because he 112 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: could be out, he could have went on just if 113 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 1: you guys are not getting along. He went on a 114 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: week long trip. But he has to fall under the 115 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: category over a certain age which is seventy two, under 116 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: a certain age which is sixteen on the sixteen, and 117 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: he have to some kind of mental something going on 118 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: physically or mentally that makes you that you can't take 119 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: care of yourself. Then you become a missing person. But 120 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: if you're healthy and you know you're of age, especially 121 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: an active doctor, and you just you know, disappeared, um, 122 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,799 Speaker 1: it's not consider a missing person over a favorite of time. 123 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: Category G is a technical designation. It means that a 124 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: person is quote absent under circumstances indicating unaccountable or involuntary disappearance. 125 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: It requires an immediate investigation. There's two things you want 126 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: to police up on the kind of go with you 127 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: missing and a coupy. You know what the copy is, 128 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: that's an unsolved homicide with they can't determine if it 129 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: was a homicide or not, but they can't say it's 130 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: not a homicide. So it gets the worst. I mean, 131 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: it's just pretty much unsolvable most of the time. Not 132 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: well category G. It's sometimes it comes out. Most of 133 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: time it comes out in the bed because the person 134 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: turns out to see someone and so it gets it 135 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: gets kicked back to you guys, you get the case. Um, 136 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: after scanning the initial information, what were your first thoughts 137 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: that did it just stick out? Is this is a 138 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: bizarre case or was it more of a everything is 139 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: chaos right now and this is just everything is chaos 140 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: and there's uh, there's a lot of thousands of people 141 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: doing miss impression reports because they can't just like ron Um, 142 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: you know, he couldn't grasp that she was in the 143 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: building and she's dead. He couldn't grasp he believes she 144 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: was alive and something else happened. He just you know, 145 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: with a denial pretty much. So tell me just about 146 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: your togative steps that you would do in general, but 147 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: specifically with this case. Um, the steps that you took 148 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: and kind of walked me through that process. Well, Cole 149 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: Rono Ron came into the precinct and we sat down 150 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: for an hour or so and tald Um just learn 151 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: more about him and about Snayha and he you know, 152 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: he told me, you know, like I said, I don't 153 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: want to say too much stuff that he she was 154 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: having issues substance abuse, mental illness, marital trouble, legal trouble. 155 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 1: She was in court that monday. I don't know you 156 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: know about that right m on the on the tent. 157 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: So Um we were just talking about that and he 158 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,719 Speaker 1: believed that she was kidnapped or something else happened. And 159 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I was like we'll look into it, 160 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: of course, but I mean just logically, you know, you 161 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: live next to the Trade Center and you're telling me that, 162 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: you know, she said to her mother the night before 163 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: she was going shopping in the in the in the mall, 164 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: um the concourse mall, and in the trade enter. This 165 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: is extremely importon because although snay Hall lived near the 166 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: World Trade Center, according to ron quote, we never go there. 167 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: She had no business there. So in order to believe 168 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: that snay had died at the Trade Center, her family 169 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: had to understand why she was there in the first place. 170 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: They put forth at least four conflicting explanations. One snay 171 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: Hall was shopping at the mall underneath the World Trade Center. Two, 172 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: snay Hall was visiting Windows on the World, the famous 173 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: restaurant on top of the North Tower, in advance of 174 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: a friend's upcoming wedding reception there. Three the night before, 175 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: say attended a party at a hotel next to the 176 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: Trade Center, hosted by the city's quote South Asian community, 177 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: and presumably stayed the night even though she lived only 178 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: nine feet away. And four snay Hall was walking home 179 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: on eleven from somewhere else, passing by the towers just 180 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: as the attacks began. Obviously, snay Hawk could not have 181 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: been shopping at the mall, visiting Windows on the World, 182 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: leaving a hotel next to the towers, and walking home 183 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: from somewhere else all at the same time. But once 184 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: her family settled on the hero narrative that she ran 185 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: into the towers to help victims and died, they needed 186 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: a why to understand why she was there. In the 187 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: early days before the hero narrative. Snay House family genuinely 188 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: thought she was alive, and none of them, especially Ron, 189 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: wanted Detective Stark to prematurely declare snay Ha at nine 190 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: eleven victim. Detective Stark understood that impulse, the desire to 191 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: investigate everything, but to him, nine eleven always made the 192 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: most sense. So I'm just, you know, being a detect 193 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: kind of like leans that way. So I'm just leaning. 194 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: He goes see he understood that a little bit, but 195 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: he had a doubt in his mind this makeup. Can 196 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: I have a doubt my mind. I don't think she's 197 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: out of I don't think she died. I think something 198 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: else happened. So that's why we went through the hole. 199 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: UM and I just got information phone, you know, anybody 200 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: she got contact with. I wish he works. UM. I 201 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: responded to the apartment, looked at video footage. I identified her. 202 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: I don't not face identify. I don't know if um. 203 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: Did Ron tell you about this? So so yeah, so 204 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: they're attree am on nine eleven. There's an image of 205 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: someone that's the blurry image exiting her apartment building. Well, 206 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: it's not blurry that you had the slide and back 207 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: of her. But Ron did state that he recognized the dress, like, well, 208 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: that could be one of addresses, Like he was never 209 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: sure about anything. In the Court Rutgers, he said that 210 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: he did not think that that was her. Yeah, no, yeah, 211 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: well they was leaking towards not thinking. But again he 212 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: was he was really really in denial of this. So 213 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: you got to take that into consideration. Fair enough, but 214 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: I don't buy it. Ron was in a much better 215 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: position to determine whether or not thirty seconds of low 216 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: quality footage actually showed his wife. Were you able visually 217 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: to make an identification of that woman as or how much? 218 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: How certain were you? How much doubt did you not? 219 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: Not not a facial you no, no, not a positive idea? 220 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: What made you ninety percent sure? Just how mannerisms? Seeing 221 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: how watching her video for like hours and hours and 222 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,359 Speaker 1: Century one, the way she walks, the way, her mannerisms 223 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: and she had the exact same mannerisms, say the night 224 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: before you know, Century This doesn't make any sense. The 225 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: Century twenty one footage includes only a few frames of 226 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: snay Ha, making it next to impossible to compare it 227 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: to thirty seconds of a different low quality video and 228 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: declare with certainty that the woman who exited to Rector 229 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: Place at eight three am on nine eleven was actually 230 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: snay ha. If it was snay Haa the woman on 231 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: video at three, why wouldn't she have her shopping bags 232 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: because she had stayed somewhere else the night of the tent. 233 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: Then she was coming out of apartment, she was going shot. 234 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: So so you so you think that that person in 235 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: the video was already in the building, It wasn't because 236 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: I've read that speculation that it was something that walked 237 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: in and then turned around and walked out. So you 238 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: did that video show somebody entering the building and exiting 239 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: or just exiting the building, exiting, attended a lobby for 240 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: a few maybe exiting with that that would indicate that 241 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: she was in the building. Though and Ron said later 242 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: on that Um and the family said that they were 243 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: not able to find any sign that she had been 244 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: in the apartment. That's a big question, walk. That was 245 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: always a big question. Walk. It's also a big deal. 246 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: Detective Stark just said that he thinks Nah was inside 247 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: her apartment on the morning of nine eleven, then exited 248 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: the building at three, only three minutes before American Airlines 249 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: flight eleven hit the North Tower fet away. If true, 250 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: if that means that either sna did come home late 251 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: nine or early nine eleven and Ron lied when he 252 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: said she did not come home, or she snuck into 253 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: her apartment after Ron left for work and left no trace, 254 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: or Detective Stark is wrong. The woman at forty three 255 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: is not snay Ha. Snay Hall was not in the apartment. 256 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: One thing that would help answer this question is being 257 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: able to see the digital photos Ron took when he 258 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: returned to the apartment on September twelve, two one, Because 259 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: according to Ron, snay Ha left behind her passport, I 260 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: D wallet, glasses and other critical belongings. What do the 261 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: photos show? Do they show the passport, I D wallet 262 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: and glasses? Do they show any signs snay how it 263 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: was in the apartment after I don't know. There's also 264 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: a crucial witness who could help clear this up. His 265 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: name is Jimmy Nelson. He's the doorman who worked the 266 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: night shift that Ron and snay Haus building from eleven 267 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: pm on nine ten until seven am on nine eleven. 268 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: If anyone saw snay return or ro On leave, it 269 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: would have been Jimmy. Unfortunately, he did not respond to 270 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: interview requests. Finally, the apartments security footage is also vital 271 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: to Rector has at least three entrances, front, back, and side. 272 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they were all covered by cameras 273 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: in two thousand one. The front definitely was the rest. 274 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. Do the tapes show Snajab returning home 275 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: one or early nine eleven? Do they verify Ron's story? 276 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't have access to the footage. 277 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: I contacted the company that owns two Rector the related 278 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: companies to see if they saved nine ten and or 279 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: nine eleven security footage. They never responded. The NYPD probably 280 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: has the tapes, but it denied me access to most 281 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: case files. Finally, there was at least one big flaw 282 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: with the NYPDS investigation. According to court records. To tell 283 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: to Stark did not watch all of the security footage. 284 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: He testified that he did see Snay leave the building 285 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: around five pm on nine ten, and the mystery woman 286 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: who he thinks is Snay, exit at eight forty three 287 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: am on nine eleven, but he did not watch all 288 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: of the footage between five pm on nine ten and 289 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: eight forty three am on nine eleven, fifteen and a 290 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: half hours of footage. I don't think anyone has ever. 291 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: Let's return for a minute to the mystery call placed 292 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: at four oh five am on nine eleven from Ron 293 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: and snay house apartment landline to Ron's cell phone. Ron 294 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: said he was alone in the apartment at the time 295 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: and that half asleep, he probably used the landline to 296 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: dial his cell to see if snay Hall left him 297 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: a voicemail, but he has no memory of making the call, 298 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: so more or less he thinks he's sleep dialed his 299 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 1: cell from his landline. To me, it's just odd. I 300 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: get that nine eleven was traumatic, but this is such 301 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: a critical detail. Did he did he give you an 302 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: explanation about what that he couldn't. Do you have any 303 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: idea did you find any reasonable explanation of because he 304 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 1: said he didn't remember that a good feeling. I saw 305 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: her leave the next morning and she was going to 306 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: said to her mother who I was the night before? 307 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: She was going shopping the ground that it just all 308 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: went together. Do you think coinences Do you think she 309 00:17:54,640 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: was in the apartment? Done? Yes? See it? Then? Do 310 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: you ross story was that he was? He was He 311 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,719 Speaker 1: got home around eleven fifteen, and that he left I 312 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: think six thirty in the morning on nine eleven, um, 313 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: and that he never Yeah, so do you think she 314 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: entered there's there's there's some discrepancy. She either entered after 315 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: he left or she was there and he's not telling 316 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: the truth. Do you have any indication of it could be? Yeah. 317 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: I mean he changed the story about three or four 318 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: times with me to the whole investigation, so it's possible 319 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: he's lying. Or when you say changed the story three 320 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: or four times, any specific details or what do you 321 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: mean by that? Um, just saying that she was taught 322 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: she wasn't plot of Night eleven, that she was kidnapped, 323 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: and then later on what was real? Later on he 324 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: said she was plating Night eleven, But um story or 325 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: what what she did? Like she was adopted in community 326 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: and you know the situation happened. Now, the situation he's 327 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: referring to is the incident in which Snay had claimed 328 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: a fellow doctor sexually assaulted her in a bar, then 329 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: allegedly recanted and harassed the doctor and his wife, UM 330 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: and affilly with the brother, the brother's girlfriend. And you know, 331 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: he just he said it didn't happen, and the brother 332 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: said it, you know, said it, didn't you know what 333 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: she thought? He was inconsistent with some things. The quote 334 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: story with the brother and the brother's girlfriend. Okay, well, 335 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,479 Speaker 1: Detective Stark did not want to go into detail with 336 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: me out of respect for snay House family. But years 337 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: ago in court, Start said that snay has younger brother, 338 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: John told him that shortly before nine eleven, John walked 339 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: in on and his girlfriend having sex. John later denied 340 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: telling this to Start. In fact, he denied speaking to 341 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:59,479 Speaker 1: Start at all. So figuring out her, say has final 342 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: movements and communications on um, how did you go about 343 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: doing that? Just interviewing people? Can you talk about did 344 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: you actually visit CenTra one and view the footage or 345 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: was it sent to you? No, I was. I went 346 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: to I can't remember how we I think it was. 347 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: I think it was credit card uh usage. That's how 348 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: we found figured out she was there once we did UM. No, 349 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: he was finding that I was there for like four 350 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: or five hours video because it's I wish I had 351 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: the video I have now in this building. But it's 352 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: the old time. You know, it wasn't um motion sense. 353 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: You know, you had to look at the whole thing. 354 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: So ron Ron said that he spent several weeks going 355 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: and looking at that video too, and then he found her. 356 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: Um did you view it after he did? Or beef? 357 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: Did you who found her first? On the UM? And 358 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: I assume he probably was looking for other signs of 359 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: her and probably if you was, what was what somebody else? 360 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: You know who? Anybody could be anybody, but she wasn't 361 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: you know, she was by the whole time on what 362 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: I viewed. So that that's that's a very interesting point 363 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: because the last person to see her live was a 364 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: shoe salesperson, Sonya Mora the next floor. I never looked 365 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: at that footage. I just sent and what And so 366 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: the last person to see her a live said that, well, frankly, 367 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: their discrepancies with this um I've seen and read in 368 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: different records that um that Snayhu was with someone, that 369 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: she wasn't with someone that the sales clerk thought she 370 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: might be with someone, you know, versus a story that 371 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: the sales clerk was definitively sure and that had she 372 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: had talked to them and they said they were going, 373 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: you know, somewhere else afterwards, it seems kind of murky 374 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: do you have did you ever determine whether or not 375 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: UM with any certainty? Snayho was with anyone? That? No, No, 376 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: she wasn't you know that? I said, only view the 377 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: center one video. I don't know, why do you? I don't. 378 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: I can't remember why. I don't if it wasn't available, 379 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: it was, it was part of sent it wasn't. Yeah, 380 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: it was just a different, different part. Yeah, but you 381 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: didn't viewing the video, you didn't see any photographic evidence, 382 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: videographic evidence that's the hose with anybody else, because that 383 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,239 Speaker 1: would have been key, that would have been a key 384 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: part of it to find out who that person was. UM, 385 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: do you have any reason to doubt the story of 386 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: the person the last person to see her, who insinuated 387 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: or said that she was with somebody else? Maybe she 388 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: just met somebody, was talking to somebody and you know 389 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: that that I didn't see anybody what the um like, 390 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: you know, next to her or talking to her. Um, 391 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: But no, I don't know. Maybe he just missed him 392 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: to maybe he thought the person was with her. Uh so, 393 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 1: UM was it a male female? She said it was 394 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:55,959 Speaker 1: a female. So you obtained UM call records? Did you 395 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: explain tell me tell me about that. Can you get 396 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: these records? These are calling people? Did you contact Rizon? 397 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,479 Speaker 1: How do you investigate that at the time? Yeah, if 398 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: you have subpoena and um, you know sub minute to 399 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: the horizon. I believe it was a rising at the time, 400 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: and then you just get the records of the you know, 401 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: any phone calls. Like I said, it's twenty years ago, 402 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: but I think Ron even supplied some phone records. Yeah. Um, 403 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 1: and so you got I assumed the phone wreckers for 404 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: the apartment landline. Did you also get any cell phone 405 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: wreckers from either Snaha or Ron? Yes, I don't. I 406 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: know what I remember her phone was nothing, no activity 407 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: on her phone rule after nine eleven. This is another discrepancy. 408 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: Detective Stark says that snay Hot did have a cell phone. 409 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: Ron said she did not. To be fair, we're talking 410 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: twenty years ago. Memories fade and these are very specific questions. 411 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: Do you know this is a question I wasn't able 412 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: to tell from the records. Um, via the records, it 413 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: seemed that she did not have a cellphone, but that 414 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: he did have a cellphone. Does that seem accurate? I 415 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: don't even Yeah, myself just had a phone for two 416 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: years at that point. Something that I noticed, um in 417 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: the records is that there's no mention of a pager, 418 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: and since she was a doctor, she almost certainly would 419 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: have had a pager. Um, do you have any recollection 420 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: of either finding or obtaining a pager that she left behind, 421 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: or of obtaining records related to her pager? No? I 422 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: just I thought that was kind of odd because I've 423 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: talked to people that worked with her, and obviously she 424 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: was a doctor. Um, she certainly would have had a 425 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: pager at the time. She was worth in the St. 426 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: Vincent's Instan Island and she was on like modified duty. 427 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what she did when she went to work, 428 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: but she wasn't doing any like you know, she was modified. 429 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what that means in a medical field. 430 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: As part of his investigation, Detective Stark visited St. Vincent, 431 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: the hospital We're snay how worked for only ten weeks 432 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: before she disappeared. According to Stark, sna was having trouble 433 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: at her new job and was on quote modified duty. 434 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,239 Speaker 1: Plus she was off work one and nine eleven, So 435 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if she had a pager, either personal 436 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: or professional with her. On the day she vanished, and 437 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: I've seen no indication that the nyp D examined any 438 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: pager records. So you get this case. Obviously, this put 439 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: it into context again of the chaos of nine eleven 440 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: and the fact that there are six thousand people who 441 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: are alleged missing and the daily news is ten thousands 442 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: fear dead, and so I think it's important to put 443 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: it in context that it was chaotic and at the time, 444 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: beyond the three thousand people that died, Um, you know, 445 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,239 Speaker 1: there were thousands of other people. You do blicates of 446 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: different people listening their love the ones that's missing. Um, 447 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: when you got this, did you immediately think nine of 448 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 1: it World Trade Center? That's the answer or well, it's 449 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: not the answer, but it's what I thought at first. 450 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: But it wasn't the answer. You know, what do you 451 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: mean by that? I mean, it's always a possibility to 452 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: what Ron saying. So that's why we got the case 453 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 1: and we looked into it. We just dismissed it as 454 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: it's just part of nine eleven. There was a lot 455 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: of like I said, I told you Anifolias. You know, 456 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: the average homicide has one box of files. This case 457 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: had two box to files. There was a lot more 458 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: work done, you know, um on this case than like 459 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: a homicide. Well, it became a tide profile. Then we 460 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: got you know, not that we we've done more work, 461 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: but it just the family was pricing, was involved, they 462 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: hired a private investigator. UM, so it became more well involved. 463 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: What would what would be in those two boxes? What 464 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: kind of when you say two boxes of records or files? Um, 465 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: mostly like the forms of DV five which at any 466 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: time we talked to somebody like right now and talk 467 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: to you. If I was detective interviewing you. After a 468 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: interview you writing everything down, I would go to the 469 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: typewriter of a crime and have computer and the type 470 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: out of DD five about the whole conversation. We just had, 471 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: so a lot of those and then phone records, any 472 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: records anything to deal with the case, video footage. I 473 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: tried to get the records, d N y p D 474 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: would not confirm whether or not they even exist. So 475 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: in terms of alternate explanations, UM, how seriously did you 476 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: consider suicide foul play either you know, kidnapping or murder 477 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: or the fact that she possibly just ran off. Um. 478 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: I learned I'll lean more towards possible because of the situation. 479 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: But she was in I know that she just had 480 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: a fight with Ron that night, the night before Starkness spoke. 481 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 1: He meant the morning before the morning of possible suicide 482 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: and possibly just ran off those two possibilities. You don't 483 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: believe foul play is even possible though, No, I've seen 484 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: no reason in it. I don't see I mean talking 485 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: about what like, uh, well, in the beginning, maybe we 486 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 1: just looked at Ron saying because you know, the day 487 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: to fight, and yeah, we have all options are opened 488 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: that he possibly did something to him. That was that 489 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,719 Speaker 1: was on the table too in the beginning, In the beginning, 490 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: how do you how do you walk the line between 491 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: balancing the possibility that this is the family of a 492 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: possible nine eleven victim with also your responsibility is a 493 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: detective to look at people around her and close to 494 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: her and consider them, but you know, responsibly consider them 495 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: as potential suspects. How do you how did you walk 496 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: that line? Oh, just deal with him and like I'm 497 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: doing with you now, and just feel him out and 498 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: you could just learn from his character and you know 499 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: how to act and all the time, I mean me 500 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: and Ron meant about thirty times, so we were always meeting. 501 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: He's always coming over the precinct, and but he's got 502 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: to I just didn't see it and him doing it, 503 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: that's all, and doing anything banta huh. That's all he seemed. 504 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: I mean, he seemed to straw, and he seemed like 505 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: he really fought hard. But he felt more destrough and 506 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: hard because of the fight they had. And I think, 507 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,239 Speaker 1: deep deep down, he he felt he was splot at 508 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: Night eleven, but he had he was just in denial 509 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: and he was just wants to keep all options open 510 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: because he was guilty about having a fight with them, 511 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: like the last time he saw her, they had a fight. Yeah, 512 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: what when you say fight, what do you what do 513 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: you mean? I've read that they fought outside of the court. 514 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: You're talking about something at the apartment or outside the court, 515 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: and you know, I guess that. Well, I don't know 516 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: what they I don't not sure what they did after 517 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: the court, if they went back to their appointment. I 518 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: can't remember. He's he said that. They said that. He 519 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: said they went back to the apartment, and he was 520 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: just saying that they were He just remembers I remember 521 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: him saying that he just remember shads, you know, they 522 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: were fighting the last time he saw. Um, what about 523 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: the other family members? I mean, obviously, Uh, the interview 524 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: with her younger brother John is something that is a 525 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: point of contention. Um, what can you tell me about 526 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: interviewing him? Like I said, I don't want to stay 527 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: nothing bad about but you know, people they think I 528 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: made you know, why would I make some story like 529 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: that up? But I'm talking to him and he's telling me, 530 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: you know, if we told for like an hour his 531 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: own Yeah, well there was an incident that this happened 532 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: that again, John allegedly walked in on snay having sex 533 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: with his girlfriend. And then I'm like, oh, okay, well 534 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: all right, you know, not that happened, that snow breaking. 535 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: That's that's how that happened. But that's what he and 536 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: he was concerned about. And also huh Stark asked me 537 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: to go off the record, which we did briefly. Later 538 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: in court, the family said and the younger brother, John 539 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: said that you made that up, that it's not true. 540 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: What did you think when you heard that? Because somebody, 541 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: somebody's telling the truth. Who's telling this? The first time 542 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: I heard that was read. It was in the new 543 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: tape of auticle. I tried calling nuth they wouldn't talk 544 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: to me. I'm saying, it's a lie. You know, you 545 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: gotta you know this is what he told me. And 546 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: they're saying that I made it up. I mean, that's 547 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: why would I take that up? Why? I mean, think 548 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: about it. You know, it's not affecting the case. It's 549 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: not gonna Why don't I just come out of that 550 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: and make something like that? He lying, yes, he's lying 551 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: that he didn't tell If he saying he didn't tell 552 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: me that, then he's lying. Yes. Well he won't even 553 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: further um because he was It was probably Ron probably 554 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: yelled at him and you know, and made him say 555 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: that he didn't say it just sounds bad the family, 556 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: to the whole family, to the situation. Well, it went't 557 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: even further um. You know, years later, and I think 558 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: it was part of the court proceeding, uh that John 559 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: Snay has brother denied even ever talking to you. Okay, Well, 560 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: I probably have a paperwork saying, you know, when I 561 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: I said anything I told somebody I do to d 562 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: D five and that's on record that I told me. 563 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: Why why do you think he would deny even talking 564 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: to you or change his story. I don't know. Maybe 565 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: the family got to him Ron saying, you know, you 566 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: can't say a bit stuff about saying how like this 567 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: and you know say you didn't say it. You know, 568 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,959 Speaker 1: did you feel you were getting straight answers when you 569 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: interviewed the family? Uh? Yes, yes, Like I said, they're 570 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: all in denial, so I can't say anything you straight 571 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: answers because you know to the denial they were in 572 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: that she was not with us anymore. Um, but no, yeah, 573 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: yeah they will the filmily was you know, I talked 574 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: to the parents on the phone only and they was 575 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: just very distraught and I just told him what I 576 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: was doing. They asked me questions and then I didn't 577 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: really get into anything else stuff for that. The question 578 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: did you review snay has final emails? Um? Any records 579 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: of final calls? We talked about that instant messages? Did 580 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: you have a chance I can't remember. Is the one 581 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: to the mother saying she's going shopping the next early morning? 582 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: That the traits? Then did you actually did you hear 583 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: that from the mother? Did you actually get a copy 584 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: of her communication? I had a copy communication, So you 585 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: read it, read it over um other than the mother. 586 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: Do you remember if there was anybody who she spoke 587 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: to the afternoon of the tenth. Also remember is arguing 588 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: with Ron and talking to her mother. That was That 589 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: was here we have yet another discrepancy. No one disputes 590 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: that snay House spoke with her mom onto right before 591 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: she disappeared, But apparently she also spoke with one or 592 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: both of her brothers, and I don't know what she said. 593 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: According to an archived copy of a website created by Snayhouse, 594 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: all their brother Ashwyn snay Hawk communicated with Ashwyn via 595 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: instant messenger at two thirty pm on September, But according 596 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: to a different source, a Newsday article written by Hugo Kogia, 597 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 1: snay Ha sent emails to her mother and younger brother 598 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 1: John at two thirty and three pm. Hugo interviewed John 599 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: for the story, which Newsday published only two weeks after 600 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: nine eleven, So presumably it was John himself who said 601 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: that Say emailed him right before she disappeared. One brother 602 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: says snay Haw communicated with him via instant messenger. One 603 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: said she emailed him. Neither mentions. The other brother neither 604 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: reveals with Snaha actually said, have you ever have you 605 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: been interviewed in the last ten or fifteen years at all? 606 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: About nine eleven were this case? Oh no, when's the 607 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: last time you're Have you ever been interviewed about this case? Um? No, 608 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: I turned it down by they wanted to interview my 609 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,399 Speaker 1: lest year on a job and I was advised to talk, 610 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: you know, not not to do it. So this is 611 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: the first interview he's getting all this case. Um do 612 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: you still have any case records or case files or 613 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: anything that I don't somewhere? I don't know. So do 614 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: typically those two boxes that you collected? Would they be 615 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: thrown in a warehouse or art It would take a 616 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 1: while to find them. If I have to find out 617 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: who would be in charge of that, I don't even know. 618 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: Like I said, I've been out sixteen years now, so 619 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: everything is different now, please, department is totally different. Stark 620 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: left the NYPD in two thousand five. Hm. Is there 621 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: anything I'm missing? I've gone over my major points, But 622 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: I anything that you want to say anything that? No, 623 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:45,879 Speaker 1: Just that I was into this case at the time 624 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: a lot, you know, I mean when I was off 625 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: duty because I was a neighbor. I've looked down any 626 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: square and I see you. Yeah. I actually went so 627 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: far as to follow a lady and stop her, and 628 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,879 Speaker 1: I was nuts. She was in you know, actually come 629 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: out of hospital and scrubs actually just like you know, 630 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: look like her. But it wasn't how one size I 631 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: d card in the face was just the same size hair. 632 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: She was endian. But you know that's how I was 633 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: into this, not too many case. I'm into when I'm 634 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 1: more duty. When I was working. When when was that? 635 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: Was that? Sorally? After that had to be a couple 636 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 1: of weeks, you know when Ron put all the flies out, 637 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: had him at over the place. UM As an investigator, 638 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: when you're dealing with families that are suffering and trying 639 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: to figure out what happened to their loved one, to 640 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: missing loved one, how do you balance a sense of 641 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: compassion and doing what the family wants with drawing a 642 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: line and saying I've done all I can do? How 643 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: do you how do you find that line? And then 644 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: how do you convey that to the families? Well, it 645 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 1: gives compassion is much you can you know, typing a 646 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: personality what you like and then they know you have 647 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: to do your job, and I want you to do 648 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: your job, so you have to, you know, the compassionate, 649 00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: be nice, but I always was. Um Ron got nasty 650 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 1: it to me, but I kept my I just you know, 651 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: I never got an asked to him because I know 652 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 1: what he was going through the same time, the same 653 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: time she's going on. They you mentioned the what people 654 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: the compassion One of the other Jaws detective was to 655 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,399 Speaker 1: go to uh An Armory and it was an interview area. 656 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if you know about that. Yeah, you know, 657 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: you don't know, like hundreds of people outside online. We 658 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,320 Speaker 1: go there and I was interviewing families and these families 659 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 1: were like I don't understand. Like I was talking to 660 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: my son and all of a sudden, how to talk 661 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: to him? And you know, I need to need to 662 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: check the hospitals, and I know what fool is he on? 663 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: And it said something like the ninety four, which is 664 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: a bug. Would have fined it like and it works 665 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: for cancer, the sheralds. So I'm like, so I left 666 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: him talk and I'm like, sorry you were what could 667 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,760 Speaker 1: have happened? And he just put his head down and 668 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,399 Speaker 1: he's on the upper floors above the plane and if 669 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: you know, and they still you know, in denial, but 670 00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: you know they kind of was setting in. But we 671 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: had an interview, and it's families because they were they 672 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: wanted to know what happened to them love one, especially 673 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: when they were talking to them, you know, at the 674 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: same time on the phone. And I just went to 675 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: what was what was it like just for you as 676 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,280 Speaker 1: a New Yorker in the immediate days and weeks after? 677 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I do I do you have clear memories 678 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 1: of it or is it just kind of a blur 679 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,760 Speaker 1: because it was right now to talking about it brings 680 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 1: back memories, but it's got to blur in general. Um, yeah, 681 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: the whole day and just like I said, the day 682 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: after the twelve that went down, now, um, you know, 683 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: like I was on a pile voluntarily and then I'm 684 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: pretty shore was the third afternoon or the morning of 685 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: the thirteenth that the wind change and all of a sudden, 686 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: the smell of nine eleven was coming into the window 687 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 1: of my apartment and my wife was like, what the 688 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: happen is that? What was that smell? And uh, you know, 689 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: it just remind me of burn of flesh, That's what 690 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: it smells like, you know, like I said, like disintegrated, 691 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: Like this is that powder that was coming all over 692 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,839 Speaker 1: the That was a lot of those human remains that 693 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:08,280 Speaker 1: was disintegrated from the heat of that, you know, defian 694 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 1: from the jet fuel. Stark still suffers lingering health effects 695 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: from the time he spent volunteering at Ground zero when 696 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: he wasn't investigating this case. One of the things that 697 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: I thought was interesting is in court you said that 698 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,280 Speaker 1: you believe this case is closed and the leads are exhausted, 699 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: but you did not use the words solved to you 700 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:34,399 Speaker 1: specifically avoided using the words solved. Can you explain, well, 701 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 1: technically not solved until DNA pop came up from nine eleven, 702 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 1: so you can't say hundred, you know, until a DNA 703 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: pop shows from the remains you mentioned a few weeks 704 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: after nine eleven seeing someone who looked like her. There's 705 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: a uniquip. Do you do you still feel like you're 706 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: sometimes even though you believe she died in the towers 707 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,359 Speaker 1: that you kind of keep an eye out to see 708 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: if come my brain Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I 709 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: always say if I see any kind of medical but 710 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: my my my brother was the doctor. He's name. He's 711 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: from going so. Um even when I see anybody in yeah, 712 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 1: I do think about it. If I see from in 713 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: the hospital, will I see a doctor or you know, 714 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 1: that's just you know it's Indian has the teat and 715 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: she pops in my mind. How's the family doing? You 716 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,919 Speaker 1: keep in contact with him? I've talked loosely with them, 717 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:36,240 Speaker 1: but they just don't monitor New York. So the father died, uh, 718 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: I believe a year or two ago. Um, So's he's gone. 719 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 1: The mom still lives upstate. At Ron lives in California. 720 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: I remember him. And then the brothers, Um one is 721 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: in the city, and then I I'm not sure the 722 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,879 Speaker 1: other one I think is in Florida. So, but they're 723 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: they're all still around. I mean Ron's and I've the 724 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: mother mom Onto and Ron have just did polite least 725 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:04,240 Speaker 1: hold me that they just don't want to talk to anyone. Um. John, 726 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 1: the younger brother, is on the fence about talking. So 727 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of for me. It's kind of hard 728 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: because I want to be fair and you know, there's 729 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: there's what you have from an investigation in court records, 730 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: and I want to tell the story of who she 731 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 1: was as a person because she had thirty one years 732 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: on the planet. She was, you know, she's a human being, 733 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: beyond gated about five years she graduated, I think from 734 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: medical school. Ye, I think, I'm pretty sure in Chicago. 735 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: Um yeah, I mean she had only been married a 736 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: year and a half, not that long. Um, so you know. 737 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: I then you just see that the photos of that wedding. Yeah, 738 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,479 Speaker 1: some wedding, right, Yeah, I see. I've seen some video 739 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: from it too. Hey, I appreciate it. Um. I don't 740 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: know what I've missed. Always pour over my nose fifty 741 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: thousand times, but um, you know, any any final words 742 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 1: and summary. I think she was a good person, A 743 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: little confused. I'm not sure how good of a docks 744 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 1: she watches Rere New so how good I don't know, um, 745 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: but I do feel, you know, my gut nent that 746 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,400 Speaker 1: she was of nine eleven, that's what she pet. She 747 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: passed away, and I just feel bad for the family 748 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: and and Ron. I hope he's going okay in California. Well, 749 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: thank you so much. I appreciate it. Okay, welcome good 750 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,439 Speaker 1: next time I'm missing on nine eleven. The fact show 751 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: that everybody would be entitled to Destiny that they died 752 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: at the trade Center for two people, and one of 753 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: the two was and Philip homework this week? One do 754 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 1: you work for the NYPD and have access to the 755 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,920 Speaker 1: Snay Half Philip case files? Do you know if they 756 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,239 Speaker 1: even still exist? Two? Do you know Jimmy Nelson, the 757 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 1: doorman who worked the eleven to seven shift at Rectord 758 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: Place A nine ten and nine eleven? Three? Did you 759 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: work at St. Vincent's medical center on Staten Island in 760 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,839 Speaker 1: two thousand one? If so, you can reach us by 761 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 1: phone at one eight three three New Tips. That's one 762 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: eight three three six three nine eight four seven seven 763 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: again one eight three three six three nine eight four 764 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: seven seven, or you can reach us via email at 765 00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,239 Speaker 1: tips at iHeart media dot com. That's Tips, T I 766 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,719 Speaker 1: P s at iHeart media dot com. Ben Bollen is 767 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 1: our executive producer. Paul Decan is our supervising producer, Chris 768 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 1: Brown is our assistant producer. Seth Nicholas Johnson is our producer. 769 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 1: Sam T. Garden is our research assistant, and I'm your 770 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,320 Speaker 1: host and executive producer John Walzack. Cover art by Pam Peacock. 771 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,320 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Tamika Campbell at I Heart and to 772 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,880 Speaker 1: Christoph Zaprey in New Orleans. Also thank you to Detective 773 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,919 Speaker 1: Richard Stark and ASoP Rock. Original theme music by ASoP Rock. 774 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: Check out asops website at ASoP rock dot com. You 775 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter at at John wallzac j 776 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 1: O n W A L C C A K. If 777 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,440 Speaker 1: you like this show, check out our first season, Missing 778 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: in Alaska, about the nineteen seventy two disappearance of two congressmen. 779 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 1: Missing on nine eleven is a co production of I 780 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Greenfork Media