WEBVTT - Jann Wenner 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.200 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.279 My guest today is Yon Winner, who's got a new 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:21.480 book of interviews entitled The Masters. Yon. How'd you decide 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:22.400 who's going to be in the. 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:26.520 Book, Well, first off, it's good to be here with you, Bob, 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:28.920 and I'm had to be glad to be welcomed and 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:33.080 welcomed and welcomed. You bet. Surely I picked the interviews. 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:38.199 I didn't choose the interviews. They chose me. They are 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:40.520 the ones I did over a fifty year period rolling Zone, 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:42.800 and they were just the people who I was totally 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:46.400 interested in the most of talking to and finding out 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:48.960 what they were thinking and about how they did, what 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:50.880 they were doing, what they thought about rock and roll. 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.440 So it wasn't every deliberate. I didn't decide even to 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.720 do this until last year when I look back and 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:03.920 saw this collection of people represent a really great selection 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.280 of the of the men not women unfortunately, who made 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.200 rock and roll and over this last fifty years made 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:14.520 it what it was today. They mainly were people, you know, 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.160 they were old. These are people who have been around 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:23.120 for a while, but they weren't sense The Masters, the Stones, Dylan, 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:30.399 the Beatles, you know, Bono, the Dead, Bruce Springsteen to who. 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.160 These are the great names of our times. They're not 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.319 all of them, it's not complete, but these are the 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:38.560 ones I gravitated to, and it turns out to be 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:39.240 a great selection. 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:42.120 So who was left on the cutting room floor? 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:44.480 Well, nobody was left on the cutting floor. I mean 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:46.400 there's a few interviews I did that I did were 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:50.640 done with the kind of gravitass and length and intensity. 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.840 I mean I did leave a Hendrix's interview on the 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:58.360 cutting room floor, because you know, looking back, I was 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.360 like nineteen sixty eight. I just went he was in 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.000 San Francisco, and I went over to his hotel room. 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:06.600 We sat aroun all afternoon, smoking dope and playing with 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.400 the tape recorder. It just wasn't that good. It's not 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.240 very much one. It's going to last a long time. 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:15.960 And then I'm one of the very first sentenced with 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.480 a guitar named Mike Blomfield, who was a great guitarist, 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:23.520 somewhat obscure but also not a great think about rock 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.520 and roll and all the issues that were attacked to 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:31.040 it in terms of youth culture and the politics of 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:32.000 the United States. 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:37.280 Okay, The interviews ranged from nineteen sixty eight with Pete 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:42.040 Towns into today twenty twenty three with Springsteen. Did you 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.800 always have in the back of your mind this fifty 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:50.080 five year old interview with Townshend or did you have 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.120 to go back and review what interviews you had done. 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:56.760 I always had it in mind. Once the idea that 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.800 I would do this book came, I didn't do that. 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.639 I mean, this is this is most of the work 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.240 that I did, because I didn't do interviews as a 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.440 general thing. I was busy running a magazine. But if 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.840 there was somebody I was really interested in, wanted to 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.360 talk and wanted to learn from, wanted to just soak 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:14.280 up the vibe, I understand, why is it that we're 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.720 all so excited about this music? I would I would 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.079 go do interview them with so I knew that they 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.480 were there. Of course I read them again, but it 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:25.240 was clear to me which they were. These were all 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:29.240 of them, really, except for Hendricks and Bloomfield. Okay, but 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.640 I used to interview the presidents too. I interviewed Obama 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.200 and Clinton and gal Go and so forth. But this 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:37.960 is about music, not about politics. 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.440 Just staying with the politics for a second, could you 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.640 get straight? I mean, I read these interviews were in 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:48.120 when they were in the magazine Rolling Stone, of course, 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:52.040 but when you're there sitting down with them, are they 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.880 answering honestly or are they always weaseling? And how do 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:55.680 you nail them. 0:03:55.560 --> 0:04:03.760 Down about musicians or politicians? Politicians politicians are not weasling 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:09.600 or lying or if you try to ask them stuff 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.160 that is kind of got youa question or is going 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.320 to get them in trouble. You know they're not going 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.800 to answer you. Number one, because the slightest mistake they 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.039 make can be used by the opposing party. Now, these 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.919 are interviews I did in the middle of elections. You know, 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.160 the slightest little mistatement and the other guy's going to 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.120 jump on you. And the other guy being Republican, they're 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:34.080 usually merciless, you know, I'm thankless, and they're ability to 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:37.000 distort and anything. So there's a danger in it. So 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.480 also I find those areas boring. You know, the gotcha 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:47.599 question is never interesting in the end what I'm trying 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:50.360 to do. And also the other thing is that because 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:55.120 the politics are so rough these days and the communications 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.680 around us, media is so intense, you know, focus on everything. 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.039 They are really pretty carefully rehearsed about everything they're going 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.480 to say. Not rehearse in the sense of rehearsal for debate, 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.000 but their practice. They know their positions on stuff. They've 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:13.000 been vetted, They've discussed the stuff with their advisors. It's 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.520 a product of a lot of policy stuff. They've decided 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:17.039 already what they're going to stand for, and what they're 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:18.839 going to campaign, and what they're going to stand for, 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.280 and what's the best compromise of interests, say between unions 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.680 in the coal industry and you know, environmentals. They've come 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.760 up with their ability how to satisfy all the interests 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:30.480 where they want where they want to be on a position. 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.080 So you're not going to get them to make any 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:36.040 breakthroughs there. So what I do is when I interview 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:37.720 them is I want to try and get to know 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:39.520 them a little better. I want to know a little 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.640 about how they feel about things. How do you feel 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.479 about you know, when you go to the Arctic, like 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.440 say Obama did or whatever. Do you worry about your 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.359 own kids and what's going to happen you know in 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.200 twenty years, where's your level of compassion about this anything? 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:55.200 And just trying to get the personal aspect. You have 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.320 to know those persons. I always ask them, of course, 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.920 what's their favorite music? And not to me that's fascinating 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.640 and it tells you a lot about the individuals. I mean, 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.280 I can tell you exactly these people are almost by 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.440 type because of the music they listen to. You know, 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.040 al Go is a total Beatles fan, you know, Bob 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.160 Dylan fan. The new Dylan record come out, he listened 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.760 to thirty times. I know, I know that person. You know. Uh, 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.440 Obama was a big Stevie Wonder loved the Rolling Stones, 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.320 picked all the right albums, you know. Quoted Dylan to me, 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.560 but not the when Obama said that's one of his 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.760 favorite spoke to him during his campaign. The Dylan. He 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.080 didn't say blowing in the wind or the times that 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.680 you know, or how many roads must say. He said, well, 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.640 it's Pizza's, you know, Maggie's farm. In others, I ain't 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.560 going to work on Maggie's farm no more. And which 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.840 is a song about, you know, it's working on plantation, 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.200 you know, black people being I mean, he was deep 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:54.520 into it, you know, and he's getting the real anyway. 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:59.120 That's the politician thing not to say. You know, you 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:03.280 asked about issues and a lot of serious stuff. But 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:08.080 I think the issue with my interviewing, well, I like 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.560 about my interviews with the musicians and with the politicians. 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:16.960 I am not there to challenge you, you know, or 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:22.200 hold you up on the cross for your sins imagine. Otherwise, 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.200 I'm there to find out what you think you know, 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.400 and what you believe, and what's influenced you and where 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.720 you came from, and what your vision is for yourself 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:36.920 and for our country. And I find those things much 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.280 more interesting, harder to get and rare to find. And 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.040 I think that's one of the things that's so special 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.440 about my interviewing and style and about the book I 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:46.800 just wrote or just put out. 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.360 Just staying with politics for a minute, Jimmy Carter was 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:55.680 constantly quoting Bob Dylan other rock lyrics. Was friends with 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.920 the Allman Brothers. Was that fake or was that real? 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.160 So that was real? You know, I mean that was real. 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:06.680 You look talked to re endorsed him, Hunter, fell in 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.480 love with him, but talked to Bob about it, for example, 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:13.040 you know who spent all this time with Carter talking 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:18.640 to him, you know, and uh, discussing all the concerns 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.480 that they would have in his lyrics. I mean, Jimmy 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.320 Carter is the real deal, you know his I'm very 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.720 unusual for president to be so direct and open, you know, 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.400 and candidate about stuff. And you know, he paid the 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.840 price for that a little, you know, he paid the 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.839 price for his times. He I don't you know, he 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.439 van against Reagan. He had the hostage christ. I mean, 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.199 I think that could have all worked, and he would 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.320 if he had been in reelected. It wouldn have gone 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:49.240 through even greater things, you know, but in of itself, 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.080 I think he would have did was so important. Okay. 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.840 There are two Dylan interviews in the book. One is 0:08:55.960 --> 0:09:01.120 classic Dylan in the Yobs the Skates. One is more honest, 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.520 what was your experience like in terms of getting some 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:09.559 level of truth, getting anything at all from doing well? 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:13.280 Bob is the trickster, you know, he's a the joker man. 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:17.640 He's the you know, a song and dance guy. He's 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.520 very funny, he has and a great wit was he 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.320 like says, and he also it's an attitude which is 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:28.360 I don't he doesn't really want to explain a lot 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.840 of stuff to you, you know, I mean he's reluctant 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.000 to give it up, and what do you need to 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.640 know it for? And also he's been bugged all his 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:40.199 life by people who have found such deep meaning and 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.559 views about life that are so more important to them. 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.480 I mean, he understands the role he's played in people's 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.560 life and people's lives, in our country's life, and he 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.320 gets all that. And I think he understands where where 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:58.160 he stands in poetry and literature, and almost exactly where 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.680 he stands. You know, he would never admen any of that. 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.640 He would profess I don't know, you know this. I 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.000 just can here to amuse people. I'man here to sing 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.720 songs or amuse people, or I'm a song and dance 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.360 man or stuff like that, which is patently untrue. And 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:18.800 he knows that, but he and he just likes playing games. 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:21.400 So I think when I read over the first interview, 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.520 the one you're referring to it as a classic, and 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.000 the one that's which he seems to be most evasive, 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.160 read a little more carefully. He's not that evasive. If 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.120 he doesn't want to answer a question, he won't answer it, 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.760 and he'll say so, you know, I mean, it's or 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.280 where was that one about? Or I say, well, we'll 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.360 have to see about that. I mean, he gets out 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:49.480 of it not by lying, you know, but by kind 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:54.520 of amusingly, you know, softball in the question, throw any 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:56.880 question away, or hitting with the side of his hand 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:04.240 in a gentle and very funny fashion. And at that period, 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.080 at that time, for that period, that was as straight 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.760 as he was ever and again straightforward with people in interviews. 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.000 So but I know what you're saying, and so you 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.320 know these he's difficult to interview. But the thing about 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.360 that partic an interview I thought was really great is 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.040 it felt so much of that time and place. It's 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.840 so recalled that Bob Dylan. You know, you could just 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.920 hear it, you know, that was him. Then it was 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:30.400 so authentic, you know. And he was also reading again 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.680 readingting in life. He was very personal about stuff, you know, 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:35.760 because I was kept asking, how do you feel about being, 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.320 you know, the so called youth theater and he said 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:39.680 I don't. And he says, I don't want to. I 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:41.480 wasn't meant for that. You know, there are people in 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.280 that position. I could lift every burden. I would, but 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:50.640 that's not me. That's not my job. But then so 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.439 I find it such an interesting document. I mean, just 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.760 that preserves Bob in that period so brilliantly, and it's 0:11:57.800 --> 0:11:59.760 a better and nicer Bob than you see and don't 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.080 look back. And then in the second one, which we 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:06.319 did in two thousand seven, I think because the day 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.240 this is of course very much sure Bob. I mean, 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.040 he's got modern times out at that time, and he's 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.200 just much more reflective and deep and thoughtful about everything. 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:17.880 But it's that funny thing. It starts off with a 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.400 tease he's doing to me, you know, like saying, well, 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:22.080 I don't you know, like I'm not gonna hang I 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:26.280 can't you know what? You know? Like just putting me 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.120 through the ringer a little. And by that time we 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.800 gotten to know each other and trust each other, and 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:32.920 it's reflective of that. 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.839 Okay, you leave the grammatical errors in Bob's language in 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.720 the book. Is that an affectation? Does he really know 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:48.559 the right word to use or is it him being uneducated? 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:52.520 What is it? I don't think I leave the grammatical 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:53.000 errors and. 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:58.800 Well, no, he'll say them instead of they Yeah. 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:02.800 Well, I think think when you edit a verbal interview 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.840 for reading, you have to now turn into something as readable. 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:08.840 And if you always get this, if you get a 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.680 constant repeating thing all the time, or misuse of grammar, 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.640 you know, I gintly take it all out, unless somehow 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.240 you're learning something from that or there's something idiomatic or 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:25.040 special about that. But the repetition of stuff can become cliched. Also, 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.440 like and the ones who are hardest. It took a 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.840 lot of editing, particularly Jerry Garcia, because here's a lot 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.240 of a man's and old man and wow, and you know, 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:37.480 a lot of that kind of hippie stuff. And when 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.080 you listen to the tape you don't even hear it, 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.480 but if you see it on the written page, you know, Jesus, 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:45.160 there's five wows in one sense, you know, in seven us. 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.439 And so you want to clean up as a courtesy, 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:51.839 but without changing any meaning and also leaving enough in 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:53.600 so you can get the sense of the person, the 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:55.280 way they talk and who they are. 0:13:56.080 --> 0:14:00.760 So striking a balance. Okay, what's fascinating to me is 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.880 in your talk with Dylan and your talk with Bono, 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.600 there's a lot of accolades for bringing it all back home. 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:13.040 Whereas conventional wisdom is highway sixty one, which has like 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.800 a rolling stone and then blonde on blonde thereafter. So 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:21.080 in your own personal hierarchy from that early era, the 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.920 pre seventy or the pre so called motorcycle accident era, 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:27.040 what is the greatest work? 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.480 Well, it's that's a hard and say. But say in 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.480 that era if you want to talk about that pre 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.800 John Mussey Harding, pre motorcycle accident, and you're saying, really 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:43.520 the bawd I'm blombering out back Home or or Highway 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.040 sixty one. I mean it's a matter of personal preference really, 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.400 or maybe when you first heard it, I'm a Highway 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:52.640 sixty one guy. Yeah, but the other two are just 0:14:52.840 --> 0:15:00.600 genius as well. Bono as an intellectual guy, so he 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.480 he likes bringing it All back home, you know, and 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.480 they're grateful dead first Jerry and those people came into 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.600 it during Bringing It All Back Home, during that kind 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:11.480 of folk era. But like Bruce says, he's listened to 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:13.720 I Was sixty one of one hundred times, you know. 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:16.280 I mean that's where he got his rock. That's when 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:18.000 he grew up and he came into it. Was it 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.520 that record he didn't renewed Bringing All Back home and existed. 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:23.640 He just heard that rock and roll sound on sixty 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:28.440 one with Mike Bloomfield and Al Kubernet Band and went nuts, 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:33.240 as did I. So they're all it's hard to say. 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.920 They are great records, you know, and they continue to 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:38.880 be records. 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:43.920 Okay. So were you aware of the first Dylan album 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.840 on Columbia which was mostly covers or did you come 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.040 in on free Wheeling? Where did you come in? 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:53.200 I came in on Bringing It All Back Home, and 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.200 I suppose Highway sixty one more than anything. 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.320 Okay, So how did you become aware of Bringing in 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.880 It All back Home? Because of course there were covers, 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.880 but it wasn't until Highway sixty one that Bob was 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.760 on top forty radio and this is prior to the 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:09.720 breakthrough of underground FM radio. 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.280 Well, you know, the first big, big Dyn't hit song 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:18.440 was Mister Tambourine Man by the Birds, and so once 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.360 you heard that, which was a breakout song, you know 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.440 in this writing and what was saying and take me 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.160 on a trip on your wellness spaceship whatever you know, 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.440 through the smoke brings of your mind with that so 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:34.000 called folk rock twelves Dring, Jim mcguinnac companyment. You know, 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:35.840 you merely sat up and said, where'd this come from? 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:37.800 And let me find out about it? But also your 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.520 friends were telling you about it, and it just you know, 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.440 everybody's discovering you know, a lot of people were discovering 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.000 Bob Big at that particular point, you know, and the 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.120 more populars that song broke broke Bob through to the 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:56.800 rock and roll audience and broke through folk rock and 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:58.400 set the stage for a sixty one. 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.880 Okay. There's a lot of debate fifty odd years later 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:08.280 as to how extensive Bob's motorcycle accident was, whether that's 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.600 an issue of retiring from public observation, or whether he 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:13.960 was really banged up. What's your opinion. 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.760 I think he was really banged up. You can get 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.200 pretty banged up in a motorcycle accident. But I also 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.600 think it came at a time where he needed to 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:25.719 be slowed down because I think he was taking a 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:27.440 lot of speed then a lot of drugs, and I 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:31.000 think it's kind of evident in his behavior and his lyrics. 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.440 You know, I'm just you know, this just an intuitive, 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:39.679 non experts opinion. This is an expert opinion. The UH 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:43.760 and he needed to slow down. He's forced to slow down, 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.600 you know, by the hand of God or whatever by 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.760 taking a turn or too fast. And he understood it 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.240 as such that it was a sign signal, you know, 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.200 they wouldn't been out there recklessly motorcycles. So I think 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:59.000 it was key and critical to his work. I mean, 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.320 I think what he did next, because he did John 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:06.239 Wessey Harden, right, which is a complete turn from you know, 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.960 thirty minutes songs on blonde and Blonde I'm talking about, 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:14.119 you know, amphetamines and pearls and your magazine husband just 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.080 has to go and stuff like that to a very 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:20.760 very classic restrained country album made National, which is a 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:23.520 beauty and said, you know, it's a different Bob. After that, 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:25.640 I think it was very real. 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.280 Okay, in a different era where there are limited media sources, 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:36.000 Rolling Stone broke the story of the basement Tapes, the 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.679 Great White wonder, how did you become aware of that? 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.280 I had forgotten that I had done that I had 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:47.679 and I read it somewhere in its very small world 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:51.080 then of the music industry and music people and music scenes. 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.199 Somebody gave me a copy of this tape that they 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:58.240 had sent out for Demos to as Demos started selling songs, 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:00.760 and it was circling around at A few people know 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:04.400 about it, and here here's something special. Was well, had 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.199 no public visibility whatsoever. And I heard it and loved it, 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:10.240 and then I thought, this is an album. I mean, 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.119 this could justifies easily being released on I wrote a 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.440 thing in Rolling Stone and like issue fifteen or fourteen 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.359 or something, say debate and said the Basement Tapes must 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:23.119 be released, you know. And and I reviewed what was 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:24.679 on there and said why it should be released, And 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:26.359 soon enough they released him. 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.560 Okay, in the fall of seventies, I believe you printed 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:41.240 a whole story that was a hoax about this album. 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:43.480 What was the genesis of that? 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.640 I had nothing to do with it. It was greal Marcus. 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.760 It was a very distinguished Craig was our record review 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:52.679 headed there, and he and some of the other his friends, 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:54.520 and there were also some of the critics decide they 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:59.160 put together. It was an album called the Masked Marauders 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.240 or was it called Yeah, Great Much Wonder the Hottest. 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:05.159 The name of the album was A Great White Wonder. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:10.720 This is after this is uh at the era of 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:13.919 the super group. So called it was when you know, 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.800 uh Bloomfield was playing. I forgot which the groups were. 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.800 Traffic may have formed in or maybe it was Cream 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:25.119 was around then, and they started guest musicians with other bands. 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:27.399 Was very unusual then it didn't happen. You had to 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:29.560 have the actual permission of the record company that you 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.960 were signed you to participate. I mean so antique. It's 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:38.800 these these are long ago days, feel And so they 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:40.639 wrote a spoof. They did a spoof for the super 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.480 group and they reviewed it. I mean, they didn't do 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:45.600 the right They wrote a review of the Great White 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.200 Wonder and said that Bob Dylan, Mick Jagger and Paul 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:52.560 McCartney or whomever had all assembled secretly in Hudson Bay, Canada, 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.359 you know, and put together this great record and it 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.439 was flying out the shelves or whatever. People. So we 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:00.359 started getting phone call with the office asked how do 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:01.680 you get the record? How do you get in touch 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.560 with the group? You know, managers calling record comings balling 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:06.280 there because they want to get a hold of it. Well, 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:10.800 of course, so Greal said, whether they go ahead and 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:15.760 record the album? And then Warner Brothers signed it, you know, 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:20.359 no as a just general good time goof okay. In 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.680 the second Dillon interview, nowadays throw you in jail for 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:25.240 violenting your copyright. 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:31.520 The second Dillon interview, you talk about the Endless Tour, 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:36.840 although it's not referred to under that moniker. Whereupon he 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:42.760 rearranges the music and he the classic tunes. Anybody who 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:45.479 goes to the show knows that he may play a 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:49.119 classic tune and you may not even recognize it. Bob 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:53.919 gives his explanation. Do you buy his explanation, and do 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:57.480 you still enjoy the modern day concerts which are not faithful? 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.160 Well, I forget his explanation and just refresh me on that. 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:05.240 Well, it's basically he says, the song deems to be 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.800 played that way, that ultimately you start with the recording, 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.800 then the song evolves and every night there's a different listen. 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.080 It's a facocta explanation. That's why I asked you. 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:20.879 There's a you know, there's a grain of truth in 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:23.600 that explanation, but that's all. That's about what there is 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:27.440 on that beach. I think that there's a couple of 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:32.760 things work. He has more fun doing it differently rather 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:35.200 than singing at the same time. Eighteen million time in 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:37.440 a row, and then there's a period in there where 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:40.760 he would I thought, did it deliberately just to confuse, frustrate, 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:46.399 you know, do whatever kind of strange thing is in 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:48.680 his mind. I mean, he has got to have known 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:50.840 that the audience comes to hear some of the big 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:53.960 hits as well his new stuff, and it's a disappointments 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:56.400 to people not to hear one of their favorite Bob 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.000 songs done in a way you expect to hear, and 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:01.720 then to not regulariz which he knows they're not recognizable, 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:05.520 and we called them on it, and I'm sure a 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:07.680 lot of other people that I remember even walking out 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:10.159 of a Dylan show years ago because of that. You know, 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:12.840 it's just so you know, you don't want to know 0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:16.199 that the song is you know, you barely recognize it, 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:22.240 and it's frustrating and it's and it's disrespectful of his audience. Well, 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:24.800 somewhere along the line, you know, about ten years ago, 0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:27.600 he changed that and he went back to doing this song. 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:30.760 So now he does something really interesting. He does a 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:33.680 couple of versions of the old songs in generally the 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:36.600 old style or the familiar style, you know, a little 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:39.119 a little better, a little that which is really satisfacing. 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:42.960 They don't take a few, he'll really rework them in 0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:46.800 a way that's so amazing. He will turn something, you know, 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:52.159 a ballot into a stately, dignified, aching, beautiful song of 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:55.480 something like like don't Think twice, you know it just 0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:58.600 it becomes a gospel tune almost. I mean, they're beautiful 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:01.000 what he does with it. And now what he's doing, 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:05.120 and that is he's really singing primarily his new records 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:07.280 and his new songs, which he's got a lot of now, 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:10.119 and he doesn't have the voice for the old songs, 0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:13.040 you know, it's not they don't suit him anymore, and 0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:15.399 it's better for him to stay away from them because 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:18.800 he can't do you know, tambourine man or blown in 0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:20.360 the wind like he used to in the way you want. 0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:23.160 It's got to be in a different way. And he's 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:25.640 doing that with real taste and style of imagination now 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:30.640 and he's accepting, you know, his new voice. It's kind 0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:35.560 of blown out and horsemen smoking, but nonetheless quite beautiful. 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:38.280 Let's switch to Jerry Garcia. 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:39.600 What do we know? 0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:45.679 Had four albums, well, three albums before Live Dead, and 0:24:45.760 --> 0:24:48.520 if you opened up Live Dead from nineteen sixty nine, 0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:51.600 you saw the Grateful Dead playing in the streets of 0:24:51.680 --> 0:24:55.960 San Francisco. The real breakthrough was working Man'stead and then 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:59.720 American Beauty. But since you were living on the West 0:24:59.760 --> 0:25:03.520 Coast prior to Working Man's Dead. In the book, Jerry 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:08.919 gives a relatively complete delineation of his history and his 0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:12.119 history of the band. But were you aware of the 0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:16.280 Dead back then and what was their cultural impact? Oh? 0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:18.000 Well, I was aware of the Dead before I even 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:21.840 started Rolling Stone. I mean they were part of this 0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:25.880 kind of like hippie drug scene that I was getting into. 0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:30.280 A few people in Palo Alto near Stanford, doing me 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:33.240 in Berkeley, and a bunch of kids in San Francisco 0:25:33.359 --> 0:25:36.760 State And so everybody in each of those three scenes 0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:38.919 was taking drugs and aware of the people in the 0:25:38.920 --> 0:25:41.280 other scenes and go back and forth. That was the 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:44.439 genesis of it all. So I happened to because of 0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:49.200 that run into the Dead. In nineteen sixty sixty five, 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:51.840 I went to a Rolling Stones concert in San Jose 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:54.800 and next door to the you know, or in that 0:25:54.840 --> 0:25:58.720 same neighborhood. The very first as well, so the very 0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:01.840 first asstest was being and I went to that and 0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:03.440 it was The Dead was playing in the living room 0:26:03.480 --> 0:26:07.480 of this big kind of college attorney or something like that. 0:26:07.880 --> 0:26:10.480 And it was the first night they'd ever performed as 0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:13.560 the Grateful Dead. They had been Mother McCurry's jug band 0:26:13.640 --> 0:26:15.280 up until that, and that was the first night they 0:26:15.440 --> 0:26:18.399 were using that name. It was just in somebody's living room, 0:26:19.080 --> 0:26:22.600 but it was the group. It was them, and and 0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:24.639 I went up to it was either less or we 0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:27.400 Are and I said, well, wow, you guys, and I'm 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:30.000 taking acid at the time. You guys are like, oh 0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:32.480 my god, mind blowing. What is your name? And he 0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:35.320 turns around and goes, we are the Grateful Dead, and 0:26:35.800 --> 0:26:40.359 well what is that? Okay? But then so anyway, I 0:26:40.400 --> 0:26:42.639 would see them a lot before starting rolling the Stone, 0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:44.600 and once I started Rolling Stone, they were, of course, 0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:46.960 you know, part of what we did. One of my 0:26:47.000 --> 0:26:50.400 best friends was the best friend of the Bill Kreisman, 0:26:50.480 --> 0:26:53.200 a drummer, and kind of managed them on the road 0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:54.960 for a little bit. And so you know, I saw 0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:57.560 a lot of them, you know, And I'm a dead head. 0:26:58.880 --> 0:27:01.080 And what about keys? You were you aware? Have you 0:27:01.160 --> 0:27:04.800 read one flew overs the Cuckoo's Nests and the Acid 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:07.520 tests and was he a presence or did you have 0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:09.560 to wait for Tom Wolves book to find out what 0:27:09.640 --> 0:27:10.440 was really going on? 0:27:11.160 --> 0:27:14.879 Oh? I didn't have to wait for Tom's book. I 0:27:17.160 --> 0:27:21.960 we keasey how I was aware of Keysy. I went 0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:24.760 to acid tests. I've been down at his house. We 0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:31.040 uh uh. Everybody knew his books and there were brilliant, 0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:33.720 great books, I mean great books. And he was just 0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:37.760 a key member of that that tripartina was part tight 0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:40.280 scene I was talking about. He was in Stanford. He 0:27:40.920 --> 0:27:45.879 participated in the first LSD experiments conducted by some government 0:27:45.920 --> 0:27:49.280 agency with Stanford under contract to Stanford, and part of 0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:51.919 that group of guys go, who this stuff is fantastic. 0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:54.359 I don't know what they're trying to test for, and 0:27:54.440 --> 0:27:56.600 turned on the Grateful Dead and a lot of other 0:27:56.640 --> 0:28:00.760 people to the acid around there. And so keysys in 0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:04.040 a way the v godfather of the San Francisco scene 0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:07.720 and asked tests and you know, just sort of one 0:28:07.760 --> 0:28:10.560 branch of the hippie thing. Ken later, you know, became 0:28:10.560 --> 0:28:12.920 a regular contribute to Throwing Stone. I mean, I think 0:28:13.000 --> 0:28:16.159 I cut it up. He wrote about I think twenty 0:28:16.200 --> 0:28:20.720 seven pieces for Rolling Stone over the years, and you know, 0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:22.600 He's a hero of mine, and in a way I mean, 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:24.560 I think he's I said, the god of the sea. 0:28:24.600 --> 0:28:27.000 He is a great man, great American novelist. 0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:31.120 Okay, so to what degree did electrocool aid acid test 0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:32.919 have an impact upon you personally? 0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:38.120 He didn't personally impact I'd already been there and done that. 0:28:38.560 --> 0:28:41.800 It impacted me on that. I was so impressed with 0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:44.840 Tom and how he was able to catch what I 0:28:44.840 --> 0:28:48.960 consider such an evanescent scene, you know, something that's ephemeral 0:28:49.000 --> 0:28:53.160 and ethereal and hard hard to get, and he got it, 0:28:53.680 --> 0:28:55.400 and it made me all the more impressed with him. 0:28:55.400 --> 0:28:56.840 So I just one of the first things I did 0:28:56.960 --> 0:28:59.680 when I started rolling stones try and find him, seek 0:28:59.720 --> 0:29:01.920 him out, and to get the right to get to 0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:04.880 get him to write for us. And I did, and 0:29:05.760 --> 0:29:07.560 he did write for us, and the history came out 0:29:07.600 --> 0:29:07.880 of that. 0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:14.240 Okay. Unfortunately Tom has passed, But in the aftermath and 0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:17.640 a little bit during his leader years, people said that 0:29:17.760 --> 0:29:21.600 he was a Republican right winger. Would you agree with that? 0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:26.280 Uh? You know, I never talked politics with Tom in 0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:31.680 that way, partially because I suspected or new he was 0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:36.640 very conservative individual, but not he wasn't concerned in this 0:29:36.800 --> 0:29:40.480 hard right sense that people are now. Tom was a humanist, 0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:43.200 you know, he liked people. He liked weird people, you know, 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:47.640 and weird culture. I mean, by no means was he 0:29:47.720 --> 0:29:51.040 kind of one of those William F. Buckley type haters. 0:29:52.400 --> 0:29:55.960 He was kind of snobby Tom. You know, he could 0:29:56.000 --> 0:30:02.000 be very he was very elegant, aristocratic his thing. He 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:05.000 was very conservative. He's old fashioned. He's a very old 0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:09.480 fashioned gentleman. And he was a great gentleman from the south, 0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:12.640 from Virginia. But he wasn't a radical, you know. I 0:30:12.680 --> 0:30:15.400 mean he would never go for something like Trump and 0:30:15.480 --> 0:30:21.560 would be terribly imus this is my Trump. But uh yeah, 0:30:21.600 --> 0:30:24.000 he was conservative. I think he was politically conservative, yes, 0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:27.000 but not in that way that you hate people these days. 0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:32.360 So the Dead have this burst of popularity in the seventies. 0:30:32.800 --> 0:30:36.360 They ultimately have an MTV hit on earst in the eighties, 0:30:36.720 --> 0:30:41.000 but there becomes this whole new wave of fans before 0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:44.960 Jerry dies. Of course, we have the incident at the 0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:49.400 gig where the stands, where people die, etc. But as 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:53.080 someone who has been there from day one, what do 0:30:53.160 --> 0:30:55.760 you think about the latter day deadheads? Let me go 0:30:55.800 --> 0:30:59.400 a little bit further. If I say anything about the 0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:03.640 Grateful Dead, people correct me, even though I saw him 0:31:03.640 --> 0:31:06.360 in nineteen seventy and they weren't even born yet. 0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:16.160 Wells shown your age. I mean, what what is exactly? 0:31:16.280 --> 0:31:17.240 What is the question there? 0:31:18.200 --> 0:31:21.360 How do you feel do you feel that the latter 0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:26.240 day that it's an affectation that the gen xers have 0:31:26.480 --> 0:31:31.400 latched on to the grateful Dead? Let me go one 0:31:31.440 --> 0:31:35.600 step further. Springsteen, who's in your book and very eloquent 0:31:35.720 --> 0:31:39.120 in your book. You know I saw Springsteen. I bought 0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:41.560 the first album, saw Im the bottom Line in seventy four, 0:31:41.680 --> 0:31:45.760 the year before Bla to Run. What I always say 0:31:45.800 --> 0:31:49.440 about Springsteen is I have no problem with Springsteen. I 0:31:49.560 --> 0:31:55.720 just hate his fans. Same deal with the dead, their authorities. 0:31:55.800 --> 0:31:59.960 You can't say anything negative, etc. Now the Grateful Day, 0:32:00.200 --> 0:32:02.920 since you were around back then, they would play for 0:32:02.960 --> 0:32:06.760 four hours. One hour would be unlistenable, one hour would 0:32:06.800 --> 0:32:10.080 be great, and two hours would be so so. But 0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:13.560 you can't even say that the dead have been iconized 0:32:13.600 --> 0:32:17.280 at this point in time. So with your perspective, how 0:32:17.280 --> 0:32:19.800 do you feel about the dead and the modern day 0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:21.080 interpretation of them? 0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:25.560 Well, I mean I love the classical Dead, The Dead 0:32:25.600 --> 0:32:29.880 before anybody, before they made their first record that was 0:32:29.920 --> 0:32:34.640 The Dead. I grew up with herd gotten indelible and 0:32:35.320 --> 0:32:38.520 was made indelible in my mind, whether Pig Pens blues 0:32:38.560 --> 0:32:44.240 playing or Jerry's Garteit guars. Jerry's wonderful guitar playing, and 0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:48.120 I liked where they evolved too, but they got to 0:32:48.120 --> 0:32:52.240 a point for me that's hard to say. When I 0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:54.600 got so involved with Rolling Stone Range in New York, 0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:56.479 I kind of lost track for a while there. But 0:32:56.520 --> 0:33:00.600 there's a period there that they just like I lost 0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:06.360 Got two Jazzy too, prophevizational and I think that came 0:33:06.400 --> 0:33:08.640 to go too many drugs, So I think I lost that. 0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:12.400 Even to this day, I prefer the more structured songs 0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:15.560 uh and uh, you know, where they're tight and they're 0:33:15.600 --> 0:33:17.800 bluesy and you can really hear the guitar playing and 0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:21.320 really act as a good rhythm section. I can kind 0:33:21.320 --> 0:33:24.440 of get lost in China Cat Sunflower, you know, and 0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:28.400 just I love to listen for Jerry's Garcian garci Is 0:33:28.840 --> 0:33:32.360 guitar playing and it's really wonderful voice. But you know, 0:33:32.400 --> 0:33:35.000 have a limited there's a limited range of dead stuff. 0:33:35.040 --> 0:33:40.000 I like today the band of the last several years 0:33:40.000 --> 0:33:43.280 with John Mayer and it I went. So it was terrific, actually, 0:33:43.320 --> 0:33:45.600 and I think it's really shaped up. I think a 0:33:45.680 --> 0:33:47.960 lot to do with John Mayer being there. I mean, 0:33:48.120 --> 0:33:51.520 he's a wonderful interpreter, non imitator of Jerry, but I 0:33:51.560 --> 0:33:55.000 think he bought some kind of missing structure and professionalism 0:33:55.440 --> 0:33:58.360 to the band. You know that this set is organized 0:33:58.400 --> 0:34:01.040 and tighter, and they're kind of thing more responsible to 0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:03.720 the audience, and they still deliver the long jams and 0:34:03.760 --> 0:34:07.080 they still deliver all that, and you know, but it's 0:34:07.120 --> 0:34:09.920 the essence of it. I have no problem with the fans. 0:34:09.960 --> 0:34:12.560 I mean I look at it, and you know, I 0:34:12.640 --> 0:34:14.840 just see people, you know, when I see it, I 0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:18.880 see people having a good time and trying to recreate 0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:21.759 the old days or trying to live another live in 0:34:21.800 --> 0:34:27.600 another era. And you know, whether they felt it deep 0:34:27.640 --> 0:34:29.480 in their soul or where it came from, where his 0:34:29.600 --> 0:34:31.800 style or whatever. I just think it's all sincere and 0:34:31.880 --> 0:34:35.000 have a good time and looking strange and you know, 0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:39.040 celebrating an era which was wonderful. I mean, it's great 0:34:39.040 --> 0:34:41.359 to be a fan of something, you know. I mean, 0:34:42.560 --> 0:34:46.680 I'm a more I'm a big fan, you know, of 0:34:47.200 --> 0:34:50.360 lots of particularly Stones and Bruce and Bob and the 0:34:50.480 --> 0:34:56.080 people I've had here in the Dead and you know, 0:34:56.120 --> 0:34:58.800 it's deep into the trivia of it and the passionate 0:34:58.800 --> 0:35:01.759 about what song is better? Alb and you liked one. Yeah, 0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:04.359 it's fun. It's good to do that. And I think 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:07.600 with a group like that which has stands for such 0:35:07.680 --> 0:35:11.000 positive stuff, you know, and with the music is so 0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:15.319 interesting and fulfilling, I think it's great, you know. And 0:35:16.400 --> 0:35:21.520 uh so I don't distain him and am I and 0:35:22.200 --> 0:35:24.000 you know, half the time in their opinion, some random 0:35:24.040 --> 0:35:26.640 fans opinion is as good as mine, you know. I mean, 0:35:26.840 --> 0:35:28.680 Bruce plays for three and a half hours, the Dead 0:35:28.680 --> 0:35:30.920 plays for three and a half hours. Stones just to 0:35:31.000 --> 0:35:34.960 two and a half. I'm ripped off, you know. But they, 0:35:35.040 --> 0:35:37.440 on the other had put fortunate to at fucking stage, 0:35:37.520 --> 0:35:42.040 you know. Okay, just staying with John Mayer, Dead End 0:35:42.120 --> 0:35:46.840 Company was tighter and more together than The Grateful Dead 0:35:46.880 --> 0:35:50.600 with Jerry ever were, although if you say that, you 0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:53.880 know you're a heretic. But let's switch to John Lennon. 0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:57.120 You have an edited version of what came out as 0:35:57.120 --> 0:36:02.680 a book as Lennon remembers. Now supposedly Lennon was pissed 0:36:03.120 --> 0:36:06.040 that he gave you this interview that you turned into 0:36:06.120 --> 0:36:09.080 a book that you sold as a book. Was that 0:36:09.239 --> 0:36:13.279 your understanding and what was going on there? Well, the 0:36:14.200 --> 0:36:16.200 book as it now is out is the full and 0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:19.560 complete thing, and the interview that is in the book 0:36:19.640 --> 0:36:22.960 that I'm just publishing. I cleaned up a lot for 0:36:23.520 --> 0:36:26.240 as you mentioned before, for you know, verbal tics, and 0:36:26.320 --> 0:36:27.680 I took a lot of stuff out there was just 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:30.319 not relevant, you know, some discussion of apple business. There's 0:36:30.360 --> 0:36:32.680 things that are current then and names that don't mean anything. 0:36:32.719 --> 0:36:37.080 They're just you know, focusing more stuff, and and uh, 0:36:38.560 --> 0:36:42.120 the reaction, the reaction after the book came out was 0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:46.200 pretty stunny. You know. It was like became worldwide headlines 0:36:46.200 --> 0:36:50.840 because it was the first time that any Beatle talked 0:36:50.960 --> 0:36:53.160 openly about what it was like to be in the Beatles, 0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:55.640 who they were, what they did, let alone, you know, 0:36:56.080 --> 0:36:59.480 who wrote what, and all the kind of musicianship questions. 0:36:59.760 --> 0:37:02.839 But nobody had pierced or gone inside the Beatles. They 0:37:02.840 --> 0:37:05.360 were sealed off. They were the most famous group in 0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:09.320 the world. They had lovable mop tops kept behind glass barriers, 0:37:09.320 --> 0:37:13.000 and all stuff. So this breaking of the silence and 0:37:13.040 --> 0:37:16.000 this kind of and also saying that they were breaking up. 0:37:16.280 --> 0:37:19.319 And in this interview he detailed the breakup and while 0:37:19.320 --> 0:37:21.440 they wake up upset lots of people, and he was 0:37:21.440 --> 0:37:25.680 harsh about McCartney. Any case. Reaction was amazing. I mean, 0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:28.720 it was headlines around the world, every even in Tibet, 0:37:29.360 --> 0:37:33.000 you know, the Laws of Laws of Daily covered in 0:37:33.080 --> 0:37:35.759 the front page. You know, it was everywhere because the 0:37:35.760 --> 0:37:39.759 Beatles were everywhere. They were the Beatles. So I think 0:37:39.800 --> 0:37:41.759 it shocked John, and John did not want to see 0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:46.520 it reissued as a book, and I did and uh, 0:37:47.239 --> 0:37:49.440 because no more that was already published tonight, it was 0:37:49.440 --> 0:37:53.799 my right to do so, uh, And I went ahead 0:37:53.800 --> 0:37:57.720 and did it. And I regretted the bad feelings that caused, 0:37:57.719 --> 0:38:02.600 but you know, because I didn't, I hated, you know, 0:38:02.640 --> 0:38:05.720 doing that. I mean, John meant so much to me personally, 0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:09.320 and he had done so much for Rolling Stone, including 0:38:09.320 --> 0:38:12.600 giving us this interviews and earlier stuff that put Rolling 0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:16.960 Stone on the map. You know, I don't. I don't 0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:18.400 know how I would have done it today. You know, 0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:21.960 today I might have done it differently. You know, today 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:23.719 I maybe didn't. I don't need the money, you know 0:38:23.840 --> 0:38:27.080 I needed need it then or whatever it was. But 0:38:27.280 --> 0:38:31.960 so anyway, customer. But we reconciled and we start corresponding again, 0:38:31.960 --> 0:38:35.040 and Rolling Stones always backing him on everything he was doing, 0:38:35.040 --> 0:38:38.239 and he was always writing us letters and uh, you 0:38:38.280 --> 0:38:40.200 know in the end, Gabe, you know, I was giving 0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:43.719 another huge interview view to you know, to Rolling Stone 0:38:43.719 --> 0:38:45.520 at that time, and he was show me another cover. 0:38:46.080 --> 0:38:50.800 So you know, I mean I we would become friends again, 0:38:50.840 --> 0:38:51.040 you know. 0:38:51.160 --> 0:38:57.040 So okay, so have you seen the extended let it 0:38:57.160 --> 0:38:59.120 be get back on TV? 0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:00.560 Know? I haven't. 0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:05.279 Well, I would say, and as he had lenin Fiend, 0:39:05.320 --> 0:39:09.319 he comes across as an asshole. Yeah, so what was 0:39:09.360 --> 0:39:13.160 your experience one on one with him? Well, John was 0:39:13.200 --> 0:39:17.280 a had a sharp tongue. It would be very tough, 0:39:17.480 --> 0:39:21.640 you know, constantly going on. You know, I've talked all 0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:24.720 the time and just sharp. 0:39:24.800 --> 0:39:27.239 You know, one of those people's can't act just they're 0:39:27.280 --> 0:39:29.880 with you know, they're saying something funny is more important 0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:33.080 than any feelings or friendship. You know, if it's a 0:39:33.080 --> 0:39:35.560 clever line, let's do it, you know. And if you're 0:39:35.560 --> 0:39:38.239 not strong enough or tough enough to take it, too bad, 0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:48.200 you know, and the when I saw that, when I 0:39:48.200 --> 0:39:49.799 saw Well, I did see a little bit of that 0:39:49.840 --> 0:39:53.040 movie though, but let it be uh well, the first 0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:54.759 time I saw as I saw with John and his 0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:57.479 things after is Oh, it's just Paul's point of view. 0:39:57.920 --> 0:39:59.719 This is an edit that came out years ago and 0:39:59.719 --> 0:40:02.399 I guess had a limited releasing with drawn or something 0:40:02.440 --> 0:40:05.000 like that. He felt it was Paul doing his selections 0:40:05.000 --> 0:40:08.960 of the stuff and the material. This point Paul's point 0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:11.839 of view, and I was always kind of sympathetic to John, 0:40:11.920 --> 0:40:14.400 and because I've been listening only to John about there 0:40:14.440 --> 0:40:17.800 were conditions. But once you see that movie, see John 0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:21.120 looks like he's trying to sabotage the whole session, difficult 0:40:21.200 --> 0:40:24.520 to reign and difficult to pay attention, you know, always 0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:27.320 making cutting remarks not available, slumped in the side of 0:40:27.320 --> 0:40:30.560 the room, and Paul is desperately trying to organize this 0:40:30.680 --> 0:40:33.080 session and make people show up on time and doing 0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:37.360 all the things you do as a leader. It and 0:40:37.440 --> 0:40:40.840 the movie is fantastic, but I saw a very I 0:40:40.840 --> 0:40:44.759 saw a forty vinement selection of clips that were admittedly 0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:50.160 assembled by Paul, and that he showed you a bunch 0:40:50.160 --> 0:40:52.799 of friends and he had the director Peter Jackson put 0:40:52.840 --> 0:40:59.239 this together as a private thing. And your first thing 0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:03.440 is you told swept away by that history, by that 0:41:03.600 --> 0:41:06.440 time that placed those songs down there, made the magic 0:41:06.480 --> 0:41:11.719 of the entire thing is alive and full blast. Then 0:41:11.760 --> 0:41:15.359 as you as you're a Beals fan like I am 0:41:15.840 --> 0:41:19.440 was will always be, and you start parsing it for 0:41:19.560 --> 0:41:22.160 the details of the relationship and things you're learning, and 0:41:22.200 --> 0:41:24.120 things you thought this and all the little stuff that 0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:26.239 goes along with it, and what every move of a 0:41:26.320 --> 0:41:28.880 hander indicates or something like that. You see that you 0:41:28.920 --> 0:41:33.799 know Paul, John was dealing. Paul was dealing John who 0:41:33.840 --> 0:41:37.440 was trying to sabotage the session, you know, somewhat consciously. 0:41:37.640 --> 0:41:40.440 Somewhat self consciously he'd had it. He wanted to make 0:41:40.480 --> 0:41:43.000 it rough for Paul. You know, okay, Paul, if you 0:41:43.000 --> 0:41:44.799 want to take this thing over, go right ahead, you 0:41:44.800 --> 0:41:46.960 take it over. You run the sessions, you do, let's 0:41:47.000 --> 0:41:49.759 do your material and you know, make me work, you know, 0:41:49.840 --> 0:41:52.719 pay for it. You know. Meantime, I think he and 0:41:52.800 --> 0:41:56.280 the open corner taking junk, which doesn't help anything, and 0:41:56.440 --> 0:41:59.840 Paul's trying to get it to going. Having said all that, 0:42:00.040 --> 0:42:03.919 at that album that came out of that, but It'd 0:42:03.960 --> 0:42:09.320 be is their worst record for the obvious reasons. You 0:42:09.320 --> 0:42:12.200 can see it in the studio. You know they're trying 0:42:12.239 --> 0:42:21.879 to patch it together. Okay, that record. 0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:25.520 Was legendarily remixed and added to by Phil Spector. Right, 0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:31.280 forget Phil Spector's crimes and going to jail. Whatever, where 0:42:31.280 --> 0:42:34.000 are you at with Phil Spector and his work with 0:42:34.080 --> 0:42:34.680 the Beatles? 0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:38.920 Okay, I think you're gonna want to critique that album 0:42:39.160 --> 0:42:41.399 and I can. And people just said that's not such 0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:43.200 a bout, And I say, okay, well, let's go through 0:42:43.200 --> 0:42:45.600 the playlist. Can you tell me? Shall I bring it up? 0:42:47.480 --> 0:42:48.680 Or is this pointless? 0:42:49.040 --> 0:42:51.640 Well, let me be specific to you. The strings on 0:42:51.800 --> 0:42:54.160 long and winding winding road, good or bad? 0:42:55.760 --> 0:43:02.000 Soupy, soapy, you know, sentimental. Here's here's the songs. I'll 0:43:02.080 --> 0:43:03.400 let it be. You tell me A few things is 0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:06.240 a great be The Two of Us. 0:43:07.080 --> 0:43:10.360 Two of Us is a good It's a minor George 0:43:10.360 --> 0:43:13.040 Harrison song, but with the intro and the acoustic guitars, 0:43:13.200 --> 0:43:15.840 I'm down with who two of Us? 0:43:15.840 --> 0:43:18.600 Sweet? It's a sweet song. It's a long and minding road, 0:43:18.920 --> 0:43:19.680 long winding road. 0:43:19.680 --> 0:43:20.480 I have no time for. 0:43:22.040 --> 0:43:26.680 Across the Universe, No time for one after nine oh 0:43:26.760 --> 0:43:28.960 nine better, that's. 0:43:28.800 --> 0:43:31.080 A song from before where they really were the Beatles. 0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:36.440 It's okay, that's oh no, but it's not for you 0:43:36.560 --> 0:43:38.120 Blue for. 0:43:38.200 --> 0:43:40.919 You Blue is once again. It was the flip side 0:43:40.960 --> 0:43:43.320 I think of Long Winding Road. Whatever or get back. 0:43:43.560 --> 0:43:47.120 It's got an interesting sound. It's a George Harrison album track. 0:43:47.400 --> 0:43:49.680 Doesn't belong on that album. 0:43:49.920 --> 0:43:52.719 It's my okay, get back. We all agree that's good, 0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:56.840 right right? I mean mine? I mean mine. 0:43:57.000 --> 0:43:58.080 No, it's strained. 0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:01.879 Let it be. We can say that's a good one too. 0:44:02.000 --> 0:44:02.360 Okay. 0:44:02.520 --> 0:44:06.000 I don't love that feeling. I got a feeling I love. 0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:07.200 I love. 0:44:07.280 --> 0:44:10.160 It's a it's just you know, everybody had a good time. 0:44:10.320 --> 0:44:14.040 Everybody let their hair down. When you get John going underneath, 0:44:14.239 --> 0:44:14.839 I dig that. 0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:18.799 You dig it. But it's a great song. But wait, 0:44:19.120 --> 0:44:24.399 dig it dig a pony, Maggie. I agree with this 0:44:24.440 --> 0:44:26.560 is this is my album. 0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:30.120 Okay, let's go. It's got three songs that they're worth it. 0:44:30.239 --> 0:44:32.360 You know, they got a lot of nice tunes, you know. 0:44:32.440 --> 0:44:33.759 But that's anyway. 0:44:34.200 --> 0:44:38.719 But the question, let's stay with Phil Spector, what's your 0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:40.560 view of instant Karma. 0:44:41.320 --> 0:44:45.719 I love that song. I mean it's powerful, but that's 0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:48.799 John song. I mean, what they'll do it echo, But 0:44:48.880 --> 0:44:49.480 the way. 0:44:49.280 --> 0:44:52.120 The drums are the drums don't sound like anything on 0:44:52.160 --> 0:44:56.200 a Beatles truck. I'm not talking about the ability, but 0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:59.120 the way they sound. They like he's hitting cardboard. It's 0:44:59.120 --> 0:45:00.280 got a different feel. 0:45:01.960 --> 0:45:04.680 Phil is a genius. He means a genius producer, and 0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:08.239 he can strip it down. I mean, I like that. 0:45:08.520 --> 0:45:12.080 But they did terrifically. You know what else did they 0:45:12.080 --> 0:45:15.400 do together? Didn't Phil produce Imagine? It seemed to produce. 0:45:15.800 --> 0:45:21.279 Yeah, Phil worked with John. I always thought Imagine was 0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:26.080 so obvious that I thought that John was laughing behind it, 0:45:26.360 --> 0:45:29.719 although that doesn't seem to be the case. Sometimes when 0:45:29.719 --> 0:45:32.839 something is too direct, it really kind of, you know, 0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:34.000 rubs me the wrong way. 0:45:34.960 --> 0:45:38.560 Well, I mean, it's such a simple song, Imagine. It's 0:45:38.600 --> 0:45:41.880 got such a simple track, and it's just a piano really, 0:45:42.280 --> 0:45:45.759 and the notion that it's gonna be so spare and 0:45:46.040 --> 0:45:50.080 Instacarma is very spare too. I mean, and if Phil 0:45:50.400 --> 0:45:53.000 was a great producer turned into a crazy man, I'm, 0:45:53.360 --> 0:45:55.759 you know, sorry to hear him go. I don't think 0:45:55.800 --> 0:45:59.080 that he did pretty great work with the Beatles, you 0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:06.680 know you Yeah, he's nuts. I enjoyed Phil sort of. 0:46:08.920 --> 0:46:11.600 Okay, let's stay with the Beatles before we get back 0:46:11.640 --> 0:46:15.200 to Phil. So if I snap my fingers and you 0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:21.640 have to get either McCartney's seventies output or John's seventies output, 0:46:22.000 --> 0:46:23.919 what would you take if you could only pick one? 0:46:24.719 --> 0:46:27.640 If I had to only, I mean of their solo 0:46:27.719 --> 0:46:32.600 output post Beatles solo output, I'd be going for John. 0:46:34.120 --> 0:46:38.600 I think Paul wrote wonderful songs and still does, and 0:46:38.680 --> 0:46:42.640 they're pretty, but the major ones that live in history 0:46:42.680 --> 0:46:43.360 are by John. 0:46:45.760 --> 0:46:47.920 Okay, the plastic on would be in the first album. 0:46:47.920 --> 0:46:51.319 You guys gave great reviews. It was not as commercially 0:46:51.400 --> 0:46:56.280 successful as McCartney's first solo album, McCartney with Maybe I'm Amazed. 0:46:56.440 --> 0:46:59.840 Of course, it had mother and it had other songs. 0:47:00.320 --> 0:47:02.279 Do you think that and there was recently a re 0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:06.960 release remix. Do you think that album was unfairly overlooked 0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:09.840 or do you think that people really get that album today? 0:47:10.440 --> 0:47:13.040 I think I don't think it was unfairly overlooked. It 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:16.400 was just not a commercial album in any sense, you know. 0:47:16.480 --> 0:47:19.760 I mean, there's one pretty song you know, maybe Boy 0:47:19.920 --> 0:47:25.240 was that it or so Paul's was the difference between 0:47:25.280 --> 0:47:28.240 the two them in that thing. Paul's was a commercial album, 0:47:28.800 --> 0:47:33.080 is pretty you know, it's easy to take Paul's out. 0:47:33.440 --> 0:47:37.520 John's album was much more interesting, much dealt with much 0:47:37.560 --> 0:47:43.320 more complex subjects, much better writing, and frankly better melodies. 0:47:43.640 --> 0:47:46.440 But it was a hard album to listen to. It 0:47:46.520 --> 0:47:49.919 was a confrontational album. You know. It wasn't about Moon 0:47:49.920 --> 0:47:53.000 and June and Spoon and you know, maybe I'm amazed. 0:47:53.000 --> 0:47:55.319 It was about mother, you did this to me, did 0:47:55.360 --> 0:47:57.480 that to me? And the Beatles are over and just 0:47:57.560 --> 0:48:01.359 everything was tough. You know, it came out of as 0:48:01.360 --> 0:48:04.200 he said, I had a lot of pain. And it's 0:48:04.239 --> 0:48:06.640 a great piece of work. That's the one that will 0:48:06.680 --> 0:48:09.000 have a living history, no matter even if it wasn't 0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:10.319 successful commercially. 0:48:11.200 --> 0:48:15.080 When did you first hear the Beatles? 0:48:16.320 --> 0:48:19.239 My first real awareness of the Beatles was seeing him 0:48:19.239 --> 0:48:22.160 in Hard Day's Night. I totally missed the Sullivan Show 0:48:22.160 --> 0:48:24.960 appearance and was told about it, but I wasn't on 0:48:25.000 --> 0:48:27.520 my radar at that point. For whatever reason. I had 0:48:27.560 --> 0:48:29.920 just gotten to college. When I saw Hard Day's Night. 0:48:29.960 --> 0:48:34.040 I just that was a you know, real Road to 0:48:34.120 --> 0:48:39.360 Damascus moment. That was a what do they call those things? 0:48:39.840 --> 0:48:42.360 My age is getting it's a real revelation. It was 0:48:42.400 --> 0:48:44.799 an epiphany. It was an epiphany for me. 0:48:45.440 --> 0:48:48.799 Okay, for many boomers, and you're just a little bit 0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:52.759 older than that. The Beatles were a line of demarcation. 0:48:53.320 --> 0:48:56.080 You had Chuck Berry, you had Elvis in the fifties, 0:48:56.120 --> 0:48:59.200 then we had the drek of Fabian slightly better with 0:48:59.200 --> 0:49:01.799 Bobby Darren, and in the sixties we get the fourth 0:49:01.840 --> 0:49:05.759 season and Beach Boys. Then the Beatles hits for you. 0:49:06.040 --> 0:49:08.600 Is it just one long continuum or do you see 0:49:09.000 --> 0:49:10.840 that as a vast turning point. 0:49:15.719 --> 0:49:18.760 It's a vast turning point because it wasn't just the Beatles. 0:49:19.160 --> 0:49:25.400 It was Beatles and Bob together and that changed it 0:49:25.440 --> 0:49:29.160 all around, as well as the fact that but it 0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:31.520 was also continuum. I mean, how can you say that 0:49:31.640 --> 0:49:33.760 it was a continuum of Chuck to the Beach Boys 0:49:33.800 --> 0:49:37.240 Elvis that all led to the Beatles. Limits It's a continuum, obviously, 0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:40.319 but it was a huge pivot point. It wasn't an 0:49:40.320 --> 0:49:43.680 abrupt start. It was just in the beginning of the 0:49:43.680 --> 0:49:47.920 book The Matches, I wrote along essay about this and 0:49:48.000 --> 0:49:51.000 about how the music of the fifties led into the 0:49:51.080 --> 0:49:54.719 music of the sixties from a social and cultural point 0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:57.000 of view, not from musical point of view. I don't 0:49:57.160 --> 0:49:59.399 get in there and think it's to say how Chuck 0:49:59.440 --> 0:50:02.360 Berry's song became Stone Songs and the Beatles, and I 0:50:02.360 --> 0:50:09.000 don't that's you know, kind of obvious, but that it 0:50:09.120 --> 0:50:12.319 was continue these people set the stage, you know, I 0:50:12.320 --> 0:50:15.759 mean Jeredy Lewis and Elvis, and it just led right 0:50:15.800 --> 0:50:16.840 to the Beatles, you know. 0:50:18.320 --> 0:50:21.480 Okay, So if you speak with people today, and I do, 0:50:22.520 --> 0:50:25.080 many people say, oh, it's the same as it ever was, 0:50:25.280 --> 0:50:28.799 or to quote you know, Paul Simon or paraphrase, every 0:50:28.840 --> 0:50:31.719 generation puts an act on the pop chart. What do 0:50:31.800 --> 0:50:36.200 you think about music's place and impact in society compared 0:50:36.320 --> 0:50:39.200 to the sixties in the early seventies. 0:50:40.880 --> 0:50:42.560 We have to be a little more specificed about that, 0:50:42.600 --> 0:50:45.480 but I think it all this particular music rock and 0:50:45.560 --> 0:50:50.160 roll as a continuum from its origins in the fifties, 0:50:51.800 --> 0:50:54.520 go back even from its origins as black music, but 0:50:56.600 --> 0:51:01.279 from its origins is teeny pretained teen white music in 0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:04.440 the fifties too. To days has this in every step 0:51:04.480 --> 0:51:09.520 of the way, has had this enormous impact on the 0:51:09.560 --> 0:51:11.160 people who grew up with it, and the people do 0:51:11.200 --> 0:51:14.560 it now. But the people grow it stood for liberation, 0:51:15.560 --> 0:51:20.040 to for liberation and sexuality. It's for literation, styles and 0:51:20.120 --> 0:51:23.720 fashion and thinking. When you get to the college years 0:51:24.200 --> 0:51:26.400 in the early sixties and the mid sixties and the 0:51:26.480 --> 0:51:29.319 Baby Boom coincide. The Baby Boom and its knowledge of 0:51:29.680 --> 0:51:32.719 civil rights and awareness with all the injustice there and 0:51:32.840 --> 0:51:36.920 the assassination of Kennedy and going to worm, it coincides 0:51:36.960 --> 0:51:40.000 neatly with this music. Now that they've all their lives 0:51:40.680 --> 0:51:43.080 have loved and led and spoken to him now really 0:51:43.120 --> 0:51:46.640 speaks from in a big, broader, deeper sense. And these people, 0:51:46.680 --> 0:51:49.359 the Beats and Bob Millen coming along and articulate that. 0:51:50.440 --> 0:51:53.359 Yet it continues as this musical form, and I think 0:51:53.360 --> 0:51:55.440 it becomes just more and more important and more and 0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:58.440 more profound, more moving, more powerful as you go on 0:51:58.560 --> 0:52:04.040 and on, as the group's more popular and widespread, and 0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:10.000 as technology comes with it, the technology of the long 0:52:10.040 --> 0:52:13.359 playing record, that then the technology of the single, than 0:52:13.360 --> 0:52:16.239 then the technology of the tape and the tape deck, 0:52:16.320 --> 0:52:19.719 and now the a tract tape and the cassette and 0:52:19.719 --> 0:52:21.799 all of a sudden the CD, and as we keep 0:52:21.840 --> 0:52:25.000 on going, the music becomes bigger and more popular and 0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:27.560 more widespread than ever. And today you can hear any 0:52:27.560 --> 0:52:29.840 song ever written any place around the world that you 0:52:29.880 --> 0:52:32.640 are at anytime free. So I mean, I think the impact, 0:52:32.680 --> 0:52:35.520 the influence of the music is so broad and the 0:52:35.600 --> 0:52:39.960 content was so important and real in people's lives, people's 0:52:39.960 --> 0:52:44.000 personal lives emotionalized of how do I love two people ones? 0:52:44.160 --> 0:52:46.719 Or how do I treat somebody I've wronged? Or you know, 0:52:47.239 --> 0:52:51.200 just the deep or the personal moral level, plus the 0:52:51.200 --> 0:52:54.239 political level, where do I Where do I stand? Where 0:52:54.239 --> 0:52:57.600 I do in such an unjust as side that's been 0:52:57.640 --> 0:53:01.320 so adjusted to its black population, or these unjust wars, 0:53:01.560 --> 0:53:04.440 you know, and where we're destroying the plant. I mean, 0:53:04.640 --> 0:53:08.040 So this music has spoken to it all all that 0:53:08.480 --> 0:53:10.880 and for a generation and to the issue. And I 0:53:10.920 --> 0:53:13.600 think two more than just a generation. And I think 0:53:13.600 --> 0:53:17.400 it's it's influenced that generation, moved that generation and guided 0:53:17.440 --> 0:53:20.960 that generation. And that has been the whole premise of 0:53:21.000 --> 0:53:23.840 Rolling Stone, one of the whole one of the premises, 0:53:23.880 --> 0:53:26.880 the key premises of Rolling Stone from the beginning that 0:53:27.000 --> 0:53:29.040 these people and these people have interviewed in the book 0:53:29.320 --> 0:53:31.920 that I call the masters, you know, were the poets, 0:53:31.920 --> 0:53:35.000 were the truth tellers of you know, the gatekeepers of truth, 0:53:35.120 --> 0:53:36.920 is what I call them. You know, any people have 0:53:37.000 --> 0:53:39.239 come out and tell the truth about society, you know, 0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:41.840 which you could learn more about what was going on 0:53:41.840 --> 0:53:46.279 in America from Bob Dylan or The Grateful Dead then 0:53:46.760 --> 0:53:49.600 and today from Bruce then you learn from any of 0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:52.400 the poets, from any of the politicians or the preachers, 0:53:52.520 --> 0:53:58.000 you know, or the the entertainers. You know, that truth 0:53:58.160 --> 0:54:01.040 was coming out of these mouths. So now these eyes, 0:54:02.440 --> 0:54:06.759 Is rock dead today? No, not at all. I mean again, 0:54:06.840 --> 0:54:09.560 it depends how you want to define rock. Are you 0:54:09.600 --> 0:54:12.080 talking about rock in the fifties, you're talking rock in 0:54:12.080 --> 0:54:15.719 a broader sense? Is the musical I don't know. I 0:54:15.880 --> 0:54:19.880 still love it. I'm still totally taken by it. I 0:54:19.960 --> 0:54:23.720 know that thousands of my children and hundreds and thousands 0:54:23.760 --> 0:54:25.880 of other people listen to it and love it because 0:54:25.880 --> 0:54:27.279 they can hear it all the time. You have to 0:54:27.320 --> 0:54:29.560 pay for it. So the Beals is still probably the 0:54:29.600 --> 0:54:31.960 most popular group in the world, you know, of all 0:54:32.040 --> 0:54:37.040 the things, and is its forefront of mine as it 0:54:37.160 --> 0:54:40.759 was then. Now when we have these pop groups, in 0:54:40.800 --> 0:54:43.120 the rap groups Domini and Charles all the place, which 0:54:43.320 --> 0:54:46.280 we did again earlier on. You know, we had Fabian 0:54:46.400 --> 0:54:48.440 and as you were talking about earlier, we had all 0:54:48.480 --> 0:54:50.960 the teen groups. So I don't I don't think so. 0:54:51.040 --> 0:54:56.600 I don't think music as a form is dead or 0:54:56.680 --> 0:54:59.400 less influential in the lives of people who love it. 0:54:59.440 --> 0:55:02.279 I think they' ill lots and lots of messages and 0:55:02.280 --> 0:55:04.759 lots and lots of concern it. I mean it's a 0:55:04.800 --> 0:55:07.440 passionate music. Music in and of itself, all the arts 0:55:07.600 --> 0:55:12.480 is the most passionate and soulful because it's not articulable 0:55:12.480 --> 0:55:16.320 and something you feel. Yeah, it's not something you visualize 0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:18.880 and see a painting. It's not something you read. You know, 0:55:18.960 --> 0:55:21.680 you feel that stuff and has that. 0:55:21.760 --> 0:55:25.880 Okay, In the sixties, seventies and even eighties, it was 0:55:25.920 --> 0:55:31.239 anathema to sell out. Now everybody says credibility is not 0:55:31.320 --> 0:55:34.799 an issue. Everybody accepts that everybody sells out. Where are 0:55:34.840 --> 0:55:35.359 you on that? 0:55:36.239 --> 0:55:38.040 Well, I don't know again what you mean by selling out? 0:55:38.040 --> 0:55:42.160 Do you mean accepting Curs's commercial sponsorship for scour or 0:55:42.719 --> 0:55:45.320 selling your song for a car commercial. 0:55:45.440 --> 0:55:50.879 Sell your car for a car commercial? Brand extension into clothing, perfume, etc. 0:55:52.760 --> 0:55:56.680 I to me, it has not affected the quality of music, 0:55:57.160 --> 0:56:02.879 what they've written, or my belief in the music. And 0:56:03.000 --> 0:56:06.480 when I see Dylan doing a Jo Van commercial, you know, 0:56:06.680 --> 0:56:08.600 or I think when I. 0:56:08.560 --> 0:56:11.120 See the Stone started with the jove on for that 0:56:12.160 --> 0:56:13.359 too was their first one. 0:56:13.400 --> 0:56:15.600 But let's start. Let's go back to what I consider 0:56:15.640 --> 0:56:18.200 the beginning of it in our era, which is the 0:56:18.320 --> 0:56:21.279 Jefferson Airplane lent their music in nineteen sixty seven sixty 0:56:21.320 --> 0:56:27.440 eight to a commercial for white levis. Now is that 0:56:27.520 --> 0:56:30.399 selling out? Well, if we go. 0:56:30.480 --> 0:56:33.200 Back into history and it's all on YouTube, most of 0:56:33.239 --> 0:56:37.320 these acts on the way Up did commercials for soft drinks, 0:56:37.360 --> 0:56:40.480 et cetera. It was only when they reached ubiquity that 0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:41.280 they said. 0:56:41.120 --> 0:56:44.960 No, well I don't like who. I don't know, I 0:56:44.960 --> 0:56:48.680 don't I'm taking the who did commercials? 0:56:49.120 --> 0:56:51.640 Everybody did commercials on the way up. 0:56:52.520 --> 0:56:54.960 I don't think that who. They had one commercial, I 0:56:55.000 --> 0:56:57.520 think that was it. But the reason I used to 0:56:57.520 --> 0:57:01.480 watch Jeffers start Airplane and as a examples that that 0:57:01.640 --> 0:57:05.440 is the very culture which started this whole bitch about 0:57:05.480 --> 0:57:08.719 selling out and making it a nathma and making it 0:57:09.080 --> 0:57:11.920 wrong thing to do and lack of conscience and good 0:57:12.040 --> 0:57:14.600 vibes and you're now a hippie capitalist and you don't 0:57:14.600 --> 0:57:18.760 subscribe to the new system of love is everywhere yet 0:57:18.920 --> 0:57:21.200 And there was some bitching, not a lot, but that's 0:57:21.240 --> 0:57:24.240 where the bitching started. And then bitching started right there 0:57:24.280 --> 0:57:27.400 and over that particular use of that particular song. I 0:57:27.400 --> 0:57:29.880 think it might have been White Rabbit. Now, I just asked, 0:57:30.120 --> 0:57:32.040 looking back at it, I said, oh, well, yes, of 0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:34.720 course they did accept money from a corporation for the 0:57:34.800 --> 0:57:37.480 use of their you know, this beautiful music that it 0:57:37.560 --> 0:57:39.920 is supposed to be their treasure and their special thing. 0:57:40.440 --> 0:57:43.480 But what what did what did they harm? Did it cause? 0:57:44.120 --> 0:57:46.800 What was the harmit did then or now? I mean, 0:57:46.840 --> 0:57:49.600 you heard the music, you thought about why the VI's 0:57:49.760 --> 0:57:52.320 you know, it wasn't that they weren't selling cigarettes. They 0:57:52.320 --> 0:57:58.919 weren't telling you know, bad you know, uh cushion, bad 0:57:59.000 --> 0:58:02.680 safety cush for cars, I mean, and so so the 0:58:02.720 --> 0:58:07.000 Stones were letting their name to a perfume or Bob 0:58:07.080 --> 0:58:12.280 Dylan is selling It was just I don't I mean, 0:58:12.520 --> 0:58:14.960 in the end, I don't mind it at all, you know, 0:58:15.000 --> 0:58:16.520 And I see the people I do it. These are 0:58:16.560 --> 0:58:18.640 among the people who are have got the most integrity 0:58:18.640 --> 0:58:21.400 of everybody I know, whether it's Bruce or Bob or 0:58:21.640 --> 0:58:24.000 Neil Young, and they all do have their different things, 0:58:24.320 --> 0:58:26.840 you know. You know Bob never did it. You know 0:58:27.440 --> 0:58:30.520 you two does it with with iPhones or iTunes, which 0:58:30.560 --> 0:58:32.840 is not a bad product at all, but you know 0:58:33.000 --> 0:58:37.200 that's their attitude towards it. And they're relentlessly commercial bottom 0:58:37.240 --> 0:58:39.960 and see a bigger audience coming from it, and see 0:58:40.680 --> 0:58:44.120 most and all this sudden. If it doesn't bother them, 0:58:44.320 --> 0:58:47.720 frankly doesn't bother me. I'm quite used to it. I 0:58:47.720 --> 0:58:48.560 think it's harmless. 0:58:49.240 --> 0:58:52.200 Okay, let's switch gears to Towns and who opens the book. 0:58:53.160 --> 0:58:57.360 You interview them just before Tommy? Are you a Tommy 0:58:57.360 --> 0:58:59.200 guy or a quadrophenia guy? 0:58:59.880 --> 0:59:04.880 I have not thought in those terms. I'm not that 0:59:05.040 --> 0:59:05.840 passionate on it. 0:59:07.240 --> 0:59:11.720 Okay, then what was your motivation for opening the book 0:59:11.760 --> 0:59:12.480 with Townsend? 0:59:13.160 --> 0:59:16.960 He was the first real interview that I did, and 0:59:17.320 --> 0:59:20.200 I thought, and I mentioned before I did Hendrix, and 0:59:20.320 --> 0:59:22.320 that I mentioned I didn't air clapped into early on, 0:59:22.560 --> 0:59:25.480 before Rolling Still started. This is the first attempt to 0:59:25.520 --> 0:59:29.080 do a kind of deep dive. A lot of research 0:59:29.160 --> 0:59:31.840 interview with the Rocks. You know that it was the 0:59:31.880 --> 0:59:34.320 first one there, and it was nineteen sixty eight, and 0:59:34.360 --> 0:59:38.200 it was so clearly of its time and era, the 0:59:38.240 --> 0:59:41.520 way we were talking, what we were talking about, the passion, 0:59:42.040 --> 0:59:47.160 the confidence, you know, a stuff. And I published a 0:59:47.160 --> 0:59:49.560 whole book in chronological order, so it gives you a 0:59:49.600 --> 0:59:51.640 sense of the growth of rock and roll and the 0:59:51.640 --> 0:59:53.360 growth of the time period, the history of my own 0:59:53.480 --> 0:59:56.320 history and what I was looking for and how we 0:59:56.400 --> 1:00:00.760 all do and grow up. And really the epilogue is 1:00:01.080 --> 1:00:04.840 Dinner with Bruce Springsteen, which I did just this year, 1:00:04.960 --> 1:00:08.320 this last summer, this summer because I wouldn't put out 1:00:08.320 --> 1:00:10.720 a book called The Masters without brucing it. And he 1:00:10.880 --> 1:00:12.640 just happened to be a guy who I never got 1:00:12.680 --> 1:00:15.160 around the interviewing while I was doing it, while I 1:00:15.240 --> 1:00:19.240 was running Rolling Stone. I mean, the last one I did, 1:00:19.280 --> 1:00:20.880 it was like six or seven years ago, was Bono 1:00:22.240 --> 1:00:27.160 and uh by now and I just so it was 1:00:27.320 --> 1:00:29.640 nice to sit down Bruce's house and let's look back 1:00:29.640 --> 1:00:32.080 on all this. Now, remember when we were young and 1:00:32.200 --> 1:00:36.120 we did that, what do we think today? So it 1:00:36.160 --> 1:00:40.000 was the reason I put Pete first was to suggest 1:00:40.320 --> 1:00:42.960 a kind of a history, a kind of historical pursessive 1:00:43.200 --> 1:00:46.880 and that you could read this book also is a history. 1:00:54.080 --> 1:00:57.680 Okay, this is audio only, but in video on zoom, 1:00:57.760 --> 1:01:00.400 I can see you. You look young for your age, 1:01:00.480 --> 1:01:06.680 but you're not taking any steps to forestall the physical 1:01:06.720 --> 1:01:10.680 image of your body, whereas many of these acts they 1:01:10.800 --> 1:01:13.840 play the people who are in their seventies, yet they 1:01:13.880 --> 1:01:18.200 have plastic surgery and hair pieces. What do you think 1:01:18.240 --> 1:01:22.360 about these aging rock acts? Do you lament the fact 1:01:22.400 --> 1:01:25.880 that they haven't gotten older and instead of singing about 1:01:25.960 --> 1:01:29.240 Moon and June, they haven't sung about divorce and other 1:01:29.360 --> 1:01:31.840 issues that affect people who are older. 1:01:32.880 --> 1:01:39.680 Well, I don't think that's wholly true. First off, of 1:01:39.720 --> 1:01:42.720 the people we're talking about here the message, I'm just 1:01:42.720 --> 1:01:45.480 trying to think who might have had plasic. First off, 1:01:45.520 --> 1:01:48.680 they're all thin as could be to begin with, Yeah, 1:01:48.800 --> 1:01:49.480 except for Bond. 1:01:49.640 --> 1:01:53.120 Well, you know when I say Mick Jagger rehearsing for 1:01:53.200 --> 1:01:58.240 a tour in a ballet studio dancing, that's a turn 1:01:58.320 --> 1:01:58.800 off for me. 1:01:59.400 --> 1:02:02.080 It is I look at it as my age. I think, 1:02:02.280 --> 1:02:05.560 my god, this guy is several years older than me 1:02:06.120 --> 1:02:10.320 and amazing shape. And same with Bruce. I mean younger 1:02:10.360 --> 1:02:13.000 than me. But these guys are an amazing shape because 1:02:13.160 --> 1:02:15.720 that's their profession. They I don't have to go up 1:02:15.720 --> 1:02:17.360 on the stage and dance around for two and a 1:02:17.400 --> 1:02:20.320 half hours. I don't have to look sexy and look 1:02:20.360 --> 1:02:24.120 good and stay in that kind of shape to do that. 1:02:24.240 --> 1:02:28.000 These guys do. That's their job, so I don't grudge 1:02:28.040 --> 1:02:31.600 any of it. And Mick is not shot and plastic surgery. 1:02:31.680 --> 1:02:34.560 Mick has not done plastic surgery. They take one look 1:02:34.560 --> 1:02:37.120 at Mick. That's not a plastic surgery type person. And 1:02:37.160 --> 1:02:41.760 I don't know anybody here I think that has done plastics. 1:02:41.800 --> 1:02:44.680 This has done plastic surgery. You know they live well. 1:02:44.520 --> 1:02:47.240 Well, I know things that I'd rather not reveal. But 1:02:47.520 --> 1:02:52.240 my point is that we have aged, and some of 1:02:52.280 --> 1:02:56.000 these acts, their major impact upon society in terms of 1:02:56.080 --> 1:03:00.400 new material is in the past, and therefore one go 1:03:00.440 --> 1:03:03.920 and have nostalgia. But aren't some of these acts frozen 1:03:03.920 --> 1:03:06.680 in the ember? They're just playing the same songs. Let 1:03:06.680 --> 1:03:12.400 me go one step further. Ruce Springsteen makes two solo albums. Okay, 1:03:12.440 --> 1:03:16.760 you've been touching Lucky Town. The audience says, you can't 1:03:16.880 --> 1:03:20.240 leave the EA Street behind Eastream being behind. Then he 1:03:20.480 --> 1:03:24.080 reunites with the Eastreet Band. For me, that is giving 1:03:24.160 --> 1:03:27.280 the audience what they want. One of the great things 1:03:27.320 --> 1:03:29.560 about Dylan. I don't want to see him anymore. I've 1:03:29.560 --> 1:03:33.280 been to the never ending tour, but he's making it interesting. 1:03:33.360 --> 1:03:36.280 He's still pushing the envelope. But he's one of the 1:03:36.600 --> 1:03:38.680 very few. 1:03:38.880 --> 1:03:40.960 All right, let's first off, that's a lot of stuff 1:03:40.920 --> 1:03:43.880 I have to deal with you, okay. And first off, 1:03:44.800 --> 1:03:47.040 plastic surgery and looking at your age. I would submit 1:03:47.120 --> 1:03:50.360 that Bob Dylan and Mick Jagger all look more than 1:03:50.400 --> 1:03:53.880 their age. They look look their age. I haven't seen 1:03:53.920 --> 1:03:56.040 Pete Laley, but I don't think he's gone for anything 1:03:56.400 --> 1:04:01.360 radical anything. Secondly, but the bigger point is responding to 1:04:01.400 --> 1:04:06.440 your audience in and of itself bad. Listen to the audience, 1:04:06.480 --> 1:04:08.880 you know, listen from. 1:04:09.440 --> 1:04:13.880 From subterranean home, pick blues you know, uh, don't follow leaders, 1:04:13.920 --> 1:04:15.240 watch the parking meters. 1:04:15.640 --> 1:04:15.880 Great. 1:04:16.080 --> 1:04:17.640 Are you supposed to be independent? 1:04:18.960 --> 1:04:21.960 What do you mean? He is independent? He writes whatever 1:04:22.000 --> 1:04:24.640 he wants. He's not paying attention to his audience right now. 1:04:24.760 --> 1:04:30.520 He's writing, I say, Dylan is a beacon. I'm talking 1:04:30.560 --> 1:04:33.240 about these other racks, giving the audience what they want. 1:04:33.520 --> 1:04:36.920 All right, so we're talking about let's talk about who 1:04:36.960 --> 1:04:40.360 do you want to have Bruce? You mentioned Bruce's talk 1:04:40.360 --> 1:04:44.160 about Jakay, Okay, okay, let's talk about Mick. Mick is 1:04:45.320 --> 1:04:47.640 every each one of them is different. There's no rule 1:04:47.680 --> 1:04:50.240 applies them all. Mick has got a new record coming out. 1:04:50.240 --> 1:04:52.600 He's got some really great stuff on it. Okay, He's 1:04:52.640 --> 1:04:56.120 not had plastic surgery. He stays in shape. He is 1:04:57.200 --> 1:05:00.000 His whole thing is has to do with his audience. 1:05:00.000 --> 1:05:03.040 It's from the beginning of time to now. You know. 1:05:03.080 --> 1:05:08.080 He gets out there and he's a performer and he behaves, behaves, 1:05:08.200 --> 1:05:12.520 he creates the rules for performing and the relationship with 1:05:12.560 --> 1:05:16.160 the audience. That's his thing, you know. So he's still 1:05:16.200 --> 1:05:18.800 doing it and he deserves praise for being able to 1:05:18.840 --> 1:05:21.640 sing fucking jumping Jack Flash is good today as then, 1:05:21.960 --> 1:05:25.640 and also his new records and blowing it away. What 1:05:25.760 --> 1:05:29.840 is it? That's his job, the audience. He's not being 1:05:29.880 --> 1:05:32.120 told to do by anything. That's what he can do, 1:05:32.160 --> 1:05:34.840 and he enjoys doing. He loves getting out there. We're playing. 1:05:35.480 --> 1:05:39.520 Did you watch the UH press conference with Jimmy Fallon? 1:05:40.520 --> 1:05:42.040 I saw a business diough it. 1:05:42.120 --> 1:05:45.439 Yeah, okay, didn't it look sad to eighty year old 1:05:45.520 --> 1:05:50.200 guys out peddling their music with the jokester? These were 1:05:50.320 --> 1:05:53.000 this was a this was a band that was dangerous 1:05:53.080 --> 1:05:54.520 cutting edge at one point. 1:05:55.160 --> 1:05:57.520 Excuse me, Well, I don't know how old you are, 1:05:57.960 --> 1:06:01.960 but I'm seven. Okay. They were in their twenties, sixtyears 1:06:02.000 --> 1:06:06.280 years long on sixty years later, on sixty years. They 1:06:06.360 --> 1:06:09.680 may be less cutting edge, they may be less good looking, 1:06:10.520 --> 1:06:16.480 they may be doing not but they're still there. They're 1:06:16.560 --> 1:06:20.200 still performing in as pressively ever. They're still loving rock 1:06:20.240 --> 1:06:23.320 and roll. They're still loving their life and then bringing 1:06:23.400 --> 1:06:27.880 joy to all of ours. Hey six years wait, wait, wait, 1:06:28.000 --> 1:06:28.600 you're a guy. 1:06:29.000 --> 1:06:32.400 You're a guy who started Rolling Stone the music was 1:06:32.480 --> 1:06:36.720 religious sixty actively, and now you're basically being long in 1:06:36.800 --> 1:06:39.200 the tooth. Well, these off the cockers they're out there 1:06:39.320 --> 1:06:40.720 doing I got to give them some credit. 1:06:41.280 --> 1:06:43.400 No, I'm doing more than that. They're doing some of 1:06:43.480 --> 1:06:46.480 their best work. They're still performing nearly at the top, 1:06:46.760 --> 1:06:49.200 nearly at the top of their game. Wait, we're still 1:06:49.400 --> 1:06:52.919 mark let me finish. They're still doing work that's vile, 1:06:53.240 --> 1:06:55.560 that's pertinent to today. The things that are singing about 1:06:55.680 --> 1:06:58.800 Ian Bruce is singing about this last album. He's singing 1:06:58.800 --> 1:07:02.080 about death, and he's dealing with the concerns of being 1:07:02.160 --> 1:07:04.680 his age and with death and going old and looking 1:07:04.760 --> 1:07:08.360 back and the stulves. I mean, he's he's vitally involved 1:07:08.400 --> 1:07:11.360 in the issues that are relevant to him and may 1:07:11.440 --> 1:07:13.720 not be irrelevant and are going to be irrelevant to 1:07:13.800 --> 1:07:17.920 his audience. I mean, I think you're I understand where 1:07:18.000 --> 1:07:21.000 you're coming from. I've heard this point of view often. Yes, 1:07:21.120 --> 1:07:24.720 we are getting old, b we look old. Yeah, see 1:07:24.760 --> 1:07:28.280 we walk old, but we're still alive and we're still kicking, 1:07:28.600 --> 1:07:30.919 and we're still kicking his shit out of everybody else. 1:07:31.800 --> 1:07:35.640 Well, one of the think one of the time, one 1:07:35.680 --> 1:07:39.920 of the things you popularize via your serialization of what 1:07:40.120 --> 1:07:45.360 became the right stuff was the concept of pushing the envelope, 1:07:46.040 --> 1:07:51.200 Chuck Yeger pushing the envelope, and that's what this music did. 1:07:51.960 --> 1:07:54.400 If you wanted to know what was going on, you 1:07:54.560 --> 1:07:58.440 listen to a record. I don't think that's the case anymore, 1:07:58.600 --> 1:08:02.800 even in the hip hop. And therefore, I mean it's 1:08:02.880 --> 1:08:06.480 if I watch streaming television, okay, and I watched some 1:08:06.640 --> 1:08:10.160 of the Morgan Okay, Danish show on Netflix. I got 1:08:10.200 --> 1:08:13.400 an impact in it and a feeling that I don't 1:08:13.520 --> 1:08:17.719 get from most of the music. Doesn't mean there aren't 1:08:17.760 --> 1:08:18.760 great records. 1:08:18.680 --> 1:08:21.400 Which the music, which music. The music we're talking about 1:08:21.400 --> 1:08:23.800 the masters of the music today that's coming out by 1:08:23.880 --> 1:08:26.080 currently hot selling rocket records. 1:08:26.360 --> 1:08:30.080 Currently talking about We're not talking about classic records. So 1:08:30.120 --> 1:08:34.479 you're talking about new music. Okay, good, keep going, all right, 1:08:34.600 --> 1:08:38.640 you want my response to that? Yes, basically, first and 1:08:39.000 --> 1:08:41.360 first off, you're fucking seventy years old, and this is 1:08:41.400 --> 1:08:43.559 the music being made by twenty and thirty year old, 1:08:43.600 --> 1:08:45.360 so of course it won't it's not going to impact you. 1:08:45.640 --> 1:08:48.120 You don't look at these people as being your contemporary, 1:08:48.200 --> 1:08:50.640 you know the real their concerns are much groomer than 1:08:50.680 --> 1:08:54.639 yours ours as seventy. That's one number one, Okay, Number 1:08:54.720 --> 1:08:58.760 two is, boy, have the times changed? And I'll tell 1:08:58.760 --> 1:09:00.760 you when this music came out, when the stones and 1:09:00.800 --> 1:09:03.160 stuff that moved us that I'm celebrating here that I 1:09:03.200 --> 1:09:06.559 think is still so great. Look at the media landscape. 1:09:06.600 --> 1:09:10.479 Then there are three networks. You know today there was 1:09:10.560 --> 1:09:15.240 no digital Today everything in the world is available instantly 1:09:15.640 --> 1:09:19.880 by camera, by the social media, by Google. By it, 1:09:20.040 --> 1:09:22.240 I mean there's no place in the world where something 1:09:22.320 --> 1:09:25.280 has not already been articulated. And now, all of a sudden, 1:09:25.360 --> 1:09:27.479 because of this new freedom of media, the media has 1:09:27.760 --> 1:09:31.120 it's able to deal with the most avant garde issues, 1:09:31.120 --> 1:09:34.559 the most sensitive topics, the most extreme stuff, the weirdest stuff, 1:09:34.720 --> 1:09:37.080 whereas in back in the day you weren't allowed to 1:09:37.200 --> 1:09:39.200 do that, but now it's everywhere. So it makes the 1:09:39.280 --> 1:09:44.439 music that makes the music in this environment less vital 1:09:45.360 --> 1:09:49.080 and important impactful that it wasn't in an environment fifty 1:09:49.160 --> 1:09:50.920 years ago when you couldn't hear a lot of the 1:09:50.960 --> 1:09:54.479 stuff expressed on TV or newspapers or magazines, when Rolling 1:09:54.520 --> 1:09:58.599 Stone didn't exist, when the network, when the Internet didn't exist, 1:09:58.680 --> 1:10:01.880 where when CDs and exists. So it's in a much 1:10:01.960 --> 1:10:04.560 different context, and you're a much different audience. You're not 1:10:04.640 --> 1:10:07.240 the audience for today's music. So I mean it makes sense. 1:10:07.320 --> 1:10:10.000 I say, you know, I say you should sit back 1:10:10.240 --> 1:10:14.559 and enjoy and celebrate how great this music wasn't how 1:10:14.640 --> 1:10:19.000 lucky you were and I was to be alive in 1:10:19.160 --> 1:10:21.360 a period in the sixties and seventies, some of the 1:10:21.400 --> 1:10:26.080 eighties where all these brilliant fricking musicians and writers and 1:10:26.120 --> 1:10:29.240 singers were all together about the same time, creating it 1:10:29.560 --> 1:10:32.479 that same period, listening to each other, impacting each other, 1:10:32.560 --> 1:10:35.760 influencing each other, driving each other along, you know, by 1:10:36.080 --> 1:10:40.599 by competition or by inspiration. And what a rare period 1:10:40.680 --> 1:10:47.280 this was in not just American history and musical history 1:10:47.800 --> 1:10:50.720 that just love little genius, but in world history. You 1:10:50.800 --> 1:10:53.639 know where we were present during one of the great 1:10:53.720 --> 1:10:58.080 renaissances of our times and of world times. And it's 1:10:58.120 --> 1:11:02.800 not something you see very often. Mean, Uh, it's easily 1:11:02.880 --> 1:11:06.720 fully comparable to what we've seen to Paris in the 1:11:06.800 --> 1:11:09.760 twenties when there are all these painters, matists, cause, etc. 1:11:10.040 --> 1:11:13.040 When hemy Me and Fitstcher were there. But even and 1:11:13.120 --> 1:11:14.880 as good as all they were, and this may sound 1:11:15.560 --> 1:11:19.760 a extreme claim, they're change. The change they brought to art, 1:11:20.479 --> 1:11:23.760 the revivocation of art, bringing along modern art were you know, 1:11:23.960 --> 1:11:26.479 all art and writing by that time it become classical 1:11:26.520 --> 1:11:28.960 and stale and borant. But this was also a company. 1:11:29.160 --> 1:11:32.120 What we did does not only revived, but it came 1:11:32.120 --> 1:11:37.280 along a time of great political, social, technological change in 1:11:37.360 --> 1:11:39.840 the world. And this is this era was when the 1:11:39.840 --> 1:11:43.240 world is transferred from that old world pre nuclear world 1:11:43.600 --> 1:11:48.080 to this new world of destruction, of internet, of an 1:11:48.280 --> 1:11:50.880 unfathomable number of things that have changed. The world has 1:11:50.960 --> 1:11:52.880 more than shrunk. It's all a different place. It's not 1:11:53.160 --> 1:11:55.920 a bunch of isolated different countries around the world after 1:11:55.960 --> 1:11:59.000 World War Two. It's all We're now so unified as ever. 1:11:59.200 --> 1:12:00.880 And it's comparable of the change in the world. It 1:12:00.920 --> 1:12:05.720 took place, you know, in Greece, you know, or in 1:12:06.680 --> 1:12:09.120 Italy and Venice in this in the classical era of 1:12:09.160 --> 1:12:13.519 that era, or during Elizabeth Elizabethan England when they came 1:12:13.520 --> 1:12:17.920 out of these countries were hugely powerful within the world. Venice, Greece, 1:12:18.040 --> 1:12:20.240 you know which they were, and England they ran the world. 1:12:20.720 --> 1:12:23.360 They were the richest countries in the world. They educated populace, 1:12:23.560 --> 1:12:27.000 they had this sense of mastering, achievement and domination, and 1:12:28.720 --> 1:12:30.920 they weren't charge themsel a bunch of stuff is more 1:12:30.920 --> 1:12:35.040 and more complicated to tease out. But that's what this 1:12:35.240 --> 1:12:40.320 period I think was about, you know, And and I 1:12:40.400 --> 1:12:42.560 think that's what this work stands for. You know. It 1:12:42.640 --> 1:12:46.680 had that relationship to its times, you know. And it 1:12:46.800 --> 1:12:50.040 wasn't painting, it wasn't writing. It certainly took advantage of 1:12:50.080 --> 1:12:53.000 the technology of the times. This is based on the 1:12:53.080 --> 1:12:56.160 technology of the times, both the reproducing spread it, the 1:12:56.240 --> 1:12:59.200 way that the printed word at one time reproducing spread 1:12:59.240 --> 1:13:02.400 that and so forth. So I mean, that's the long view, 1:13:03.360 --> 1:13:05.680 and we're just older now, you know. 1:13:05.840 --> 1:13:08.599 No, I think that's very well articulated, that we don't 1:13:08.640 --> 1:13:11.480 live in a monoculture. And you mentioned the word renaissance, 1:13:11.880 --> 1:13:15.160 which I wholly agree with. There was a Renaissance hundreds 1:13:15.200 --> 1:13:18.880 of years ago. People have painted and sculpted since then, 1:13:19.600 --> 1:13:25.400 but there's only one renaissance, right, just going through the decades. Though, 1:13:25.600 --> 1:13:30.120 to what degree do you believe our change in culture 1:13:30.840 --> 1:13:35.559 and the attendant income inequality was driven by Reagan, who's 1:13:35.600 --> 1:13:39.200 been canonized by the right, And to what degree has 1:13:39.280 --> 1:13:43.120 that changed our society and left us where we are now? 1:13:44.439 --> 1:13:47.759 Well, I mean, I think all these changes are afoot 1:13:48.040 --> 1:13:52.439 despite without Reagan. I mean, this is all happened without him. 1:13:56.040 --> 1:14:03.240 He's almost irrelevant to them. But Reagan was it, you know, 1:14:03.560 --> 1:14:09.599 a gentle, easy to swallow salesman of a really increasingly 1:14:09.720 --> 1:14:17.960 putrid influence on society, most particularly in what he did 1:14:18.160 --> 1:14:24.080 with income taxes and taxes where the extreme wealth divide 1:14:24.120 --> 1:14:27.519 which plagues us now started under him, under reduction of 1:14:27.640 --> 1:14:32.040 gutting of the union starting under him. And uh, the 1:14:32.400 --> 1:14:36.599 empowering of the religious right started under him from modern times. 1:14:36.640 --> 1:14:39.120 And so he made it all seem smooth and wonderful. 1:14:39.160 --> 1:14:41.240 But I don't view him as a hero or a 1:14:41.360 --> 1:14:46.800 very good president or you know, but a funny, charming guy. Uh. 1:14:47.320 --> 1:14:49.080 But all these things, I mean, I think, all the 1:14:49.240 --> 1:14:53.040 worse stuff in contemporaries. It's not that it hasn't happened before. 1:14:53.680 --> 1:14:56.679 You know, this kind of his warmart, the religious right 1:14:56.880 --> 1:15:00.200 or income disparags haven't happened before in history. They've all 1:15:00.200 --> 1:15:03.360 of this. Truth've had many religious awakenings, We've had many 1:15:03.520 --> 1:15:07.599 right wing crusades, We've had many cuses berries wealth before 1:15:07.720 --> 1:15:10.400 in modern times. Reagan was the first instrument of it, 1:15:10.600 --> 1:15:13.880 and it just continued under you know, Bush senior, Bush 1:15:13.960 --> 1:15:16.960 junior and Trump. Of them, all the worst has been 1:15:17.360 --> 1:15:21.880 was Bush junior, George W. Bush. Uh. So I mean, 1:15:22.240 --> 1:15:26.880 I I the Republican has been terrible. And I think, yes, 1:15:27.120 --> 1:15:30.000 it's been a fight against the Republican ideology. 1:15:31.680 --> 1:15:35.439 So you believe it's somewhat secular that these things wouldn't 1:15:35.439 --> 1:15:38.200 have happened without Reagan? What was in the culture that 1:15:38.360 --> 1:15:39.559 was driving these things? 1:15:40.040 --> 1:15:43.639 Reagan that the regiaction is that the history of America. 1:15:43.640 --> 1:15:45.360 I mean, America has been a weird place. We start 1:15:45.400 --> 1:15:52.240 off burning witches, we start off flee you know, kind 1:15:52.479 --> 1:15:55.160 is it pure in society? You know, there's very harsh 1:15:56.160 --> 1:15:58.719 religious strictures in the society. We say we're a society 1:15:58.760 --> 1:16:01.720 free of religion, but we had the puritanical stuff, and 1:16:02.200 --> 1:16:04.360 so it's just been we were a slave society. We 1:16:06.240 --> 1:16:08.120 I mean, how do you how do you account for 1:16:08.160 --> 1:16:10.000 putting men in chains and whipping them in the way 1:16:10.280 --> 1:16:12.360 they were treated. We fought a fucking warm which because 1:16:12.360 --> 1:16:14.679 a couple of nine people died, I think the worst 1:16:15.160 --> 1:16:17.080 over the issue of slavery. Well, how you treat your 1:16:17.080 --> 1:16:20.640 fellow man? That war's never been resolved, you know, So, 1:16:21.120 --> 1:16:24.240 I mean it's been lurking under the American surface as 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:29.280 part of the modern dilim for years. We've created great 1:16:29.320 --> 1:16:32.960 good good in the world and great evil. And I 1:16:33.000 --> 1:16:36.360 think that this kind of empowered this generation of America 1:16:36.360 --> 1:16:38.560 has been called on to kind of look back and 1:16:38.640 --> 1:16:40.880 sit back on that because we can't go on any longer. 1:16:41.280 --> 1:16:42.760 As we've been going on. If we go on any 1:16:42.840 --> 1:16:46.920 longer this, the planet's over, you know, by environmental destruction 1:16:47.000 --> 1:16:51.599 and nuclear war. You know. So we need a change 1:16:51.760 --> 1:16:56.080 in consciousness, you know, not we have to do this thing, 1:16:56.600 --> 1:17:00.080 loved one another. We have to all these bromides that 1:17:00.080 --> 1:17:02.080 we've heard in Wrock and all they're true, you know, 1:17:02.160 --> 1:17:04.120 and we're where to point. If you don't do that, 1:17:04.280 --> 1:17:06.400 you know, we're going to We're gonna some awful things 1:17:06.439 --> 1:17:10.280 are going to happen. But I'm wondering whether that was 1:17:10.320 --> 1:17:10.880 the question or not. 1:17:11.640 --> 1:17:13.120 Well, no, you we answered, But let me let me 1:17:13.320 --> 1:17:16.760 just go to the present. So in your crystal ball, 1:17:17.280 --> 1:17:18.920 what happens in the future. 1:17:19.640 --> 1:17:22.240 Jeez, I don't know, could go to me, It could 1:17:22.240 --> 1:17:27.839 go either way, you know. I mean, there's great progress 1:17:27.880 --> 1:17:31.120 are being made. We have great knowledge, great ability. Everybody 1:17:31.200 --> 1:17:33.960 knows what the problems are, you know, we know essentially 1:17:34.040 --> 1:17:38.200 how to technically solve all these things, what should be done, 1:17:38.240 --> 1:17:40.320 what should be right. But they'll take you know, it's 1:17:40.320 --> 1:17:43.960 a change in political will and consciousness and right and wrong. 1:17:44.080 --> 1:17:46.360 I think al Gore expresses, really, once we see the 1:17:46.479 --> 1:17:50.680 environmental question and all these questions as issues of right 1:17:50.880 --> 1:17:56.800 or wrong, then We're going to solve them because we'll 1:17:56.840 --> 1:17:58.560 know what's right to do, we'll know what's wrong to do, 1:17:58.880 --> 1:18:02.120 and so patently clear what's right and what's wrong. And 1:18:02.200 --> 1:18:05.040 if people just get on the side doing the right thing, 1:18:05.680 --> 1:18:08.000 you know. I mean, he keeps saying political will is 1:18:08.080 --> 1:18:12.000 renewable resource. I hope so. But you've got powerful But 1:18:12.120 --> 1:18:14.200 on the other hands, Bob Filne says to me, and 1:18:14.800 --> 1:18:17.839 the last time, he's just human nature hasn't changed fundamentally 1:18:17.880 --> 1:18:21.840 in three thousand years. You know, it's still greed power. 1:18:21.960 --> 1:18:24.840 You know, the dim side is greed driven, is power driven? 1:18:24.960 --> 1:18:27.799 How do we break that cycle? These are powerful interests 1:18:27.840 --> 1:18:31.120 and powerful wealthy people and corporations were up against you know, 1:18:31.880 --> 1:18:37.200 and their hands. They're deeply involved in social structures. Now 1:18:37.280 --> 1:18:39.160 things run. I mean, it's not just the greed of 1:18:39.200 --> 1:18:41.679 the oil business, but it's greed of all the people 1:18:42.000 --> 1:18:45.000 who underline it first, people who work there, let alone 1:18:45.160 --> 1:18:47.880 people at Morgan Stanley who finance it. You know, the 1:18:47.920 --> 1:18:50.240 Bank of America pay for and loan them billions of 1:18:50.320 --> 1:18:54.400 dollars every year to keep fun. So that's hard to know, 1:18:56.360 --> 1:18:58.840 but I think that in the end you have to 1:18:58.920 --> 1:19:02.320 live with hope and optimism, and you have to take 1:19:02.360 --> 1:19:04.120 the hopeful approach. I don't think you have any choice 1:19:04.320 --> 1:19:07.800 but to do that, otherwise it's impossible to live. 1:19:08.680 --> 1:19:10.960 Okay, you're a student of the game. We remember the 1:19:11.080 --> 1:19:14.200 sixties when you didn't want to have long here south 1:19:14.280 --> 1:19:18.400 of the Mason Dixon Line, red Knicks. Whatever's going on 1:19:18.720 --> 1:19:23.360 is much further to the extreme. Now, what accounts for 1:19:23.960 --> 1:19:29.360 the hardcore belief in Trump, irrelevant of the indictments and 1:19:29.439 --> 1:19:30.600 other accusations. 1:19:32.200 --> 1:19:34.800 Well, I mean two things. Once again, I would bring 1:19:34.880 --> 1:19:38.920 you back to American history and this kind of these 1:19:39.000 --> 1:19:41.719 kind of people have been a constant part of American history. 1:19:42.000 --> 1:19:44.599 I've just guessed it's been thirty percent of American history 1:19:44.640 --> 1:19:47.640 at the beginning. Remember again, we fought the Civil War. 1:19:47.720 --> 1:19:50.200 We had hundreds of thousands of you know, millions of 1:19:50.200 --> 1:19:54.640 people public fighting for slavery, like sacrificing our lives for slavery, 1:19:54.960 --> 1:19:58.840 you know. And then we had Father Coughlin and the 1:19:58.920 --> 1:20:01.000 pro Nazi movement keep America out of the war. We 1:20:01.120 --> 1:20:04.479 have McCarthyism, so there's a and the religious. We've always 1:20:04.520 --> 1:20:07.799 had this strain in American, in American culture. So obviously 1:20:08.000 --> 1:20:11.040 I think Trump is tapped into that strain. It's a 1:20:11.120 --> 1:20:16.360 big strain and it uh, it's gonna be loyal to anybody. 1:20:16.400 --> 1:20:18.120 You know, it's loyal to me. And you cannot going 1:20:18.160 --> 1:20:21.200 to change your minds. You know, there's no man of logic, 1:20:21.560 --> 1:20:23.840 no man of grand jury, indictment. It's nothing that's going 1:20:23.920 --> 1:20:26.559 to change their mind I mean not even as sinning 1:20:26.760 --> 1:20:30.600 bastard Trump and his five wives and you know, on 1:20:30.800 --> 1:20:34.240 and on whatever, even that doesn't turn these people off. 1:20:34.280 --> 1:20:38.559 Who are the fundamental any abortion religious people, God fearing 1:20:38.600 --> 1:20:42.559 you know, these are the least Christian people in the world. 1:20:43.240 --> 1:20:46.880 You know, Trump's supporters, they're the most negative. They're they're 1:20:47.880 --> 1:20:52.920 demeaning and of poor people. They're racial. I mean, let 1:20:53.000 --> 1:20:55.639 me back off this. The other thing is that we've 1:20:55.680 --> 1:20:58.840 got this economic disparity going on, this huge thing where 1:20:58.880 --> 1:21:02.519 people are making you know, thirty thirty forty billion dollars, 1:21:02.520 --> 1:21:04.599 I mean, excuse me, three hundred million dollars a year. 1:21:04.680 --> 1:21:08.080 They're worth billions of dollars. The wealth is spread around 1:21:08.160 --> 1:21:11.400 in the country is the wealth. The wealth. Wealth is 1:21:11.680 --> 1:21:14.960 big and it's enormous and people, most people have been 1:21:15.000 --> 1:21:18.120 cut out of the system. It's they don't live unions anymore. 1:21:18.120 --> 1:21:20.280 They don't have highways ers, they don't have two cars 1:21:20.320 --> 1:21:22.880 in their garage, intelligence and get their summer vacation. So 1:21:23.280 --> 1:21:27.240 people are feeling deprived of the system, you know, they 1:21:27.400 --> 1:21:29.640 take it that they haven't received the benefit system. Even 1:21:29.680 --> 1:21:31.639 then they work their ass off. And it's been done 1:21:31.840 --> 1:21:34.479 historically in the last thirty forty fifth years by Democrats 1:21:34.560 --> 1:21:37.800 as well as Republicans, less so by the Democrats, more 1:21:37.880 --> 1:21:41.960 so by the Republicans. But today it's stunning. The Democrats 1:21:42.000 --> 1:21:44.759 are saying, let's lower debt, drug prices, let's give equitable 1:21:44.840 --> 1:21:47.439 medical care, and the Republics are tooth and nail against 1:21:47.479 --> 1:21:51.839 lowering dut prices. Let the farmer companies make billions of profits. 1:21:52.280 --> 1:21:56.320 So they feel justly deprived, and so they're going to 1:21:56.400 --> 1:21:59.639 go with the burst presertion like Trump, who have however, 1:21:59.800 --> 1:22:04.400 in however inaccurately, he portrays it none less channels the 1:22:04.479 --> 1:22:07.599 frustration of the swamp, even though he's part of the swamp. 1:22:08.120 --> 1:22:10.000 These people are so angry, they're going to believe that 1:22:10.040 --> 1:22:11.599 because they don't look beyond that. They want to blame. 1:22:11.680 --> 1:22:14.720 So I'm getting fucked over by the establishment, you know, 1:22:14.840 --> 1:22:17.400 by those people, and Trump says, I'm going to save you, 1:22:17.760 --> 1:22:20.519 and that's it, and there's reason for it for him 1:22:20.800 --> 1:22:21.560 them to think that. 1:22:23.240 --> 1:22:26.240 Just going to the opposite. For twenty odd years, we've 1:22:26.280 --> 1:22:30.480 had Fox News, We've had this incredible hammering of Democrats 1:22:30.560 --> 1:22:33.800 in the left. We have the DNC operating on the 1:22:33.920 --> 1:22:39.160 traditional principles nomine Hillary Clinton doesn't win. We have the 1:22:39.200 --> 1:22:43.599 same DNC saying, well, biden't be Trump once. He's our man, 1:22:43.720 --> 1:22:45.840 even though he will be eighty six if he serves 1:22:45.880 --> 1:22:49.800 the second term. What would you advise the DNC and 1:22:49.920 --> 1:22:50.960 Democratic Party? 1:22:55.160 --> 1:22:59.040 Tell her the truth, stick to your guns, don't be 1:22:59.120 --> 1:23:05.800 intimidated by these assholes embraced byen. He's great, That's what 1:23:05.880 --> 1:23:09.519 I would say. Are you troubled at all by his age? Well, 1:23:09.560 --> 1:23:12.120 of course everybody's troubled by the fact he's old. But 1:23:12.720 --> 1:23:16.720 I'm not troubled by he is. I think he's the 1:23:16.720 --> 1:23:19.000 most common person out there to run the country. He's 1:23:19.000 --> 1:23:22.600 certainly better than any other Republican being discussed or in 1:23:22.680 --> 1:23:24.920 the process. Now, I wouldn't trust one of those people 1:23:24.960 --> 1:23:28.000 for throating the country, you know, but I trust Biden. 1:23:28.240 --> 1:23:30.720 He's got the experience and the wisdom and knowledge. Look 1:23:30.760 --> 1:23:32.840 what a great job he's doing right now. Look at 1:23:32.840 --> 1:23:36.000 the legislation he's gotten past, which was stuck there all 1:23:36.080 --> 1:23:40.960 these years. He's fighting both China and Russia at once, 1:23:42.000 --> 1:23:43.439 you know, doing a hell of a job of that. 1:23:44.360 --> 1:23:47.280 This looks to me like a fully confident, prepared, knowledgeable, 1:23:47.320 --> 1:23:50.439 strategic present And he doesn't get roughed his feathers u 1:23:50.520 --> 1:23:53.400 gruffled by the latest criticism or whatever. If you get 1:23:53.400 --> 1:23:56.639 into the news cycle responding the criticism all the time, 1:23:56.920 --> 1:23:59.360 then you're a dead duck. Then you're playing the other 1:23:59.439 --> 1:24:03.599 person's game. I think Fox is definitely a new part 1:24:03.600 --> 1:24:09.559 of the equation these years, and it's just been It's 1:24:09.800 --> 1:24:15.080 just poison. It's like a fear factory, you know. It 1:24:15.160 --> 1:24:20.360 goes out and creates fear wherever and drives this people along. 1:24:20.479 --> 1:24:24.160 But you know, I like Biden. I like what the 1:24:24.240 --> 1:24:25.080 Demorats are doing. 1:24:32.479 --> 1:24:37.720 Okay, it used to be Rolling Stone spoke to a generation. 1:24:39.080 --> 1:24:43.559 In the last handful of years, exacerbated by the COVID era, 1:24:44.640 --> 1:24:47.719 all these magazines are going out of business. I'm always 1:24:47.760 --> 1:24:49.960 weary of subscribing to a magazine. It will go out 1:24:49.960 --> 1:24:52.280 of business. Used to happen in the past, like the 1:24:52.439 --> 1:24:57.679 Manhattaniak Clay Felk or whatever. But now Entertainment Tonight doesn't 1:24:57.760 --> 1:25:02.040 publish Entertainment Weekly. Excuse me, what is the future of 1:25:02.120 --> 1:25:05.000 the magazine business. You're an expert as much as anybody. 1:25:06.680 --> 1:25:09.880 Well. The fact that the magazines are doing so poorly 1:25:10.000 --> 1:25:14.360 is that there's no economic model left for them. The 1:25:14.560 --> 1:25:19.920 Internet has taken away all the advertising without compensation. It 1:25:20.040 --> 1:25:23.559 stole all the material there was the magazines and newspapers 1:25:23.560 --> 1:25:26.200 assembled paid all this money for it. They took it free, 1:25:26.600 --> 1:25:29.040 put it on their websites and sold advertising on it, 1:25:29.400 --> 1:25:32.479 and took away the advertisers that the magazines needed to 1:25:32.520 --> 1:25:36.080 survive on the newspapers and the news business what I 1:25:36.160 --> 1:25:38.880 could call, by the way, the free press, which is 1:25:39.040 --> 1:25:41.720 vital to this country, and they've replaced it with this, 1:25:42.240 --> 1:25:46.520 you know, the Internet group of quick hits and no restraints, 1:25:46.640 --> 1:25:50.000 no laws governing it, no laws requiring it to be 1:25:50.120 --> 1:25:53.040 not libels or that be truthful and accurate. They somehow 1:25:53.439 --> 1:25:57.320 immunized themselves from all those rules, you know. But they're 1:25:57.320 --> 1:26:00.559 the most powerful press in the country. But this question 1:26:00.680 --> 1:26:04.840 about there's no economical of there's no advertising left, so 1:26:06.600 --> 1:26:10.320 you know, it's a more powerful medium more better meetum 1:26:10.360 --> 1:26:13.840 for advertisers because you can target. Not only can you 1:26:14.000 --> 1:26:16.800 target down to the person, you can also send them 1:26:17.040 --> 1:26:21.880 add TV advertising on the internet on your phone, you know, 1:26:22.240 --> 1:26:26.280 visual advertising. So those the magazines and the newspapers pre 1:26:26.400 --> 1:26:31.160 newspaper prepress was supported by advertisers. That's gone. And so 1:26:31.280 --> 1:26:34.800 there's there's going to be room for specially magazines and 1:26:35.320 --> 1:26:37.439 trade journals. And there'll be room for some magazines that 1:26:37.880 --> 1:26:41.080 are really highly visual, the highly art trated. But I 1:26:41.080 --> 1:26:43.680 don't think you're gonna have mass magazines anymore. You're not 1:26:43.720 --> 1:26:46.240 gonna have general interest magazines like Rolling Stone anymore. 1:26:47.840 --> 1:26:50.680 Okay, you have Margaret Sullivan, who was the ombudsman for 1:26:50.760 --> 1:26:53.720 the New York Times then went to Washington Post now 1:26:53.720 --> 1:26:56.519 at the Guardian, wrote a whole book how to save 1:26:56.680 --> 1:27:00.720 the news industry. In my observation, whenever you try to 1:27:00.800 --> 1:27:04.479 save something, you can't. It's only you have to progress 1:27:04.640 --> 1:27:07.040 to the new thing in the future. Do you believe 1:27:07.439 --> 1:27:10.439 newspapers need to be propped up or do you have 1:27:10.680 --> 1:27:13.800 to let the economic system work itself out and go 1:27:13.920 --> 1:27:14.639 into the future. 1:27:15.400 --> 1:27:17.479 I think they can be and should be propped up. 1:27:19.200 --> 1:27:22.679 First off, what is the Internet, which is his main commination. 1:27:22.800 --> 1:27:27.200 But a government subsidized thing. And great part they've been 1:27:27.280 --> 1:27:30.840 exempt from taxes for the longest period of time. They're 1:27:30.880 --> 1:27:34.560 exempt from regulation that I was just speaking of of 1:27:34.720 --> 1:27:37.439 content regulation by under the rules of the free press. 1:27:38.000 --> 1:27:41.439 They were financed and support initially by the government, which 1:27:41.520 --> 1:27:44.799 paid for the beginning of the Internet and invented the Internet, 1:27:45.040 --> 1:27:48.679 and still subsidizes it with all kinds of tax breaks 1:27:48.920 --> 1:27:53.080 and all kinds of contracts from the Defense Department, Higher Education, 1:27:53.760 --> 1:27:56.680 you know, paying these companies enormous months of money. So 1:27:57.240 --> 1:28:00.320 if you want to talk about a subsidized industry, you know, 1:28:00.520 --> 1:28:03.560 it's the Internet. Now they've got billions and billions and 1:28:03.680 --> 1:28:05.479 hundreds of millions I was sitting in their bank accounts, 1:28:05.760 --> 1:28:09.679 which ought to be repurposed. That's tax money they should 1:28:09.720 --> 1:28:12.760 have paid into the system. I'll repurpose. And you could 1:28:12.840 --> 1:28:16.760 do things that that you call it artificially propping up. 1:28:16.800 --> 1:28:18.760 And I agree with you about how you can't save 1:28:18.800 --> 1:28:22.960 a dying dog, but you could give the magazine newspapers 1:28:23.000 --> 1:28:26.680 and mail them free. If we're going to give the 1:28:26.760 --> 1:28:30.840 internet freedom of the public airwaves and the public utilities, 1:28:31.160 --> 1:28:33.760 and they don't pay for that, then the newspapers and 1:28:33.800 --> 1:28:36.280 magazines maybe should get some of the same. So if 1:28:36.320 --> 1:28:40.320 you take away the calls of postage for them, you know, 1:28:40.600 --> 1:28:44.640 and subsides by the government, that's a start, you know. 1:28:44.800 --> 1:28:46.759 And I can think of a bunch of other ways, 1:28:46.840 --> 1:28:50.240 you know, and which share subsidies, which would be good. 1:28:50.320 --> 1:28:54.240 I mean, I'm not talking about I'm talking about subsidizing 1:28:54.360 --> 1:28:59.240 something here that like the British subsidies of BBC. I mean, 1:28:59.320 --> 1:29:02.000 we have MPR, could go further than that and such. 1:29:02.800 --> 1:29:06.080 But this medium, the press, the free press, was deemed 1:29:06.120 --> 1:29:10.880 by the founding fathers to be absolutely vital to the 1:29:10.920 --> 1:29:16.320 function of democracy, that a well informed public was necessary 1:29:16.360 --> 1:29:19.000 to make to elect the politicians that we wanted, and 1:29:19.360 --> 1:29:22.040 to make the decisions and policy decisions that we wanted. 1:29:22.280 --> 1:29:24.840 And I think that judgment they made was absolutely correct 1:29:24.840 --> 1:29:27.160 in the first place, that when the public turns on 1:29:27.280 --> 1:29:31.439 something and they properly formed public opinions, absolutely paradis to 1:29:31.439 --> 1:29:35.200 public policy. And we're not getting that now. It was 1:29:35.240 --> 1:29:37.400 so important that they made it the first Amendment to 1:29:37.400 --> 1:29:42.360 the United States that you could not inhibit the practice 1:29:42.360 --> 1:29:44.400 of the free press. We need that and we need 1:29:44.479 --> 1:29:45.120 to restore that. 1:29:47.680 --> 1:29:54.439 Okay, Lena Kahan, who is our antitrust point person, is 1:29:54.560 --> 1:29:57.680 being more aggressive. Do you have a viewpoint on antitrust. 1:30:00.000 --> 1:30:02.960 I think we all enforced the laws. I think every 1:30:03.000 --> 1:30:08.839 time you've seen UH this kind of like anti competitive 1:30:09.360 --> 1:30:14.320 uh combination of elements of manufacturing or initial elements, whether 1:30:14.320 --> 1:30:16.920 it was the three collar makers or the three UH 1:30:18.280 --> 1:30:22.680 broadcaster network broadcasters, or the telephone company or you name it. 1:30:23.040 --> 1:30:27.000 You know Microsoft yourself, you raise prices and you stultified 1:30:27.760 --> 1:30:31.160 innovation and competition. Since we broke up the telephone companies. 1:30:31.200 --> 1:30:34.360 Look what's happened as the baby bills in the competition 1:30:34.680 --> 1:30:38.840 and started financing cellular service, same with Microsoft. That could 1:30:38.880 --> 1:30:41.920 happen a thousand internet companies bloomed and all this you 1:30:42.000 --> 1:30:44.800 know other stuff. The three networks are terrible enough to all, 1:30:44.880 --> 1:30:47.680 you know they but they'll get back to one good 1:30:47.720 --> 1:30:51.400 thing they did. But in terms of they're programming the 1:30:51.560 --> 1:30:54.760 liberality of it. You know. Also now you've got and 1:30:55.160 --> 1:30:58.680 the three carding manufacturers because of their stifling of competition, 1:30:59.560 --> 1:31:01.640 you know, because they were such a monoplist didn't have 1:31:01.680 --> 1:31:04.919 to be. That led the open the market to Japanese Germans. 1:31:05.200 --> 1:31:08.759 All the people denovated and did better cars, far better cars. 1:31:10.080 --> 1:31:13.000 The problem wasn't how clever the Japanese were. It was 1:31:13.000 --> 1:31:16.160 the fact that we were so retarded. We made clunky cars. 1:31:16.560 --> 1:31:19.720 The doors didn't fit properly into the you know, into 1:31:19.840 --> 1:31:23.800 the doorframe. No, they just didn't do good cars, and 1:31:24.000 --> 1:31:25.800 somebody else came along. So I think if we had 1:31:25.920 --> 1:31:29.800 some the history of competition is good for us. But 1:31:30.520 --> 1:31:35.480 I say this about it. Regulated competition capitalism cannot be unregulated. 1:31:36.160 --> 1:31:40.320 There has to be supervision, has to be managed properly 1:31:40.520 --> 1:31:45.040 because unready to competition where greed conguers all ain't gonna 1:31:45.160 --> 1:31:47.600 ain't good for us, and that's what happens. So we 1:31:47.680 --> 1:31:51.920 need regulated capitalism. What the networks did when there were 1:31:51.960 --> 1:31:53.760 three of them and there wasn't all this kind of 1:31:53.840 --> 1:31:57.400 crazy Internet stuff, is we were able to unify society, 1:31:59.760 --> 1:32:03.160 you know, with standards of everybody agreed upon. We could 1:32:03.160 --> 1:32:08.080 agree upon standards of truth, of fact and all this 1:32:08.240 --> 1:32:12.880 Internet crap that goes on, the unregular, unregulated crap. If 1:32:12.920 --> 1:32:15.720 we're really regulating that networks even more of that by 1:32:15.760 --> 1:32:20.920 the FCC about objectivity, you know, fairness, truth, we would 1:32:20.960 --> 1:32:23.080 have more results like we just had in the Fox 1:32:23.400 --> 1:32:29.160 versus dominion case that they've been so unsupervised. Did they 1:32:29.320 --> 1:32:35.479 emit damaging society? So I want to we need managed 1:32:35.720 --> 1:32:39.360 cap We cannot cannot have monopoly capitalism, that'll ruin us. 1:32:39.479 --> 1:32:40.760 We need managed combolists. 1:32:41.960 --> 1:32:45.360 Okay, you have a new book coming out. Fifty years ago, 1:32:45.560 --> 1:32:49.400 you had your own publishing company, Straight Arrow Lennon remembers 1:32:49.439 --> 1:32:52.840 came out on that Bill Owen Suburbia. What you learn 1:32:52.960 --> 1:32:54.480 in that venture. 1:32:55.840 --> 1:32:58.720 The book publishing has its own very special business that 1:32:58.720 --> 1:33:02.360 requires its own intuitive touch and it's own time frame 1:33:02.520 --> 1:33:06.600 and rhythm. And that wasn't my business. My business magazines 1:33:06.640 --> 1:33:07.040 and news. 1:33:08.760 --> 1:33:12.400 Okay, switching to you, you ultimately got involved with US. 1:33:12.600 --> 1:33:19.960 You purchase US. Is gossip a fundamental element of society? 1:33:20.360 --> 1:33:23.760 Is it more powerful? Now less powerful? There's certainly much 1:33:23.840 --> 1:33:29.200 more information online. By the same token, It's not like 1:33:29.320 --> 1:33:31.840 the old days where you went to the supermarket and 1:33:31.880 --> 1:33:33.479 you saw it just a couple of magazines. So I 1:33:33.560 --> 1:33:35.040 headline and everybody knew those. 1:33:37.400 --> 1:33:40.000 I'm sorry, I was thinking I missed the very question. 1:33:40.080 --> 1:33:41.920 The first part of that, the premisey. 1:33:41.680 --> 1:33:45.960 The bottom line with US magazine is gossip something that's 1:33:46.080 --> 1:33:51.240 institutional that just transcends time. Or are we in a 1:33:51.320 --> 1:33:55.560 waning era? And it's ironic because we have much more information, 1:33:56.400 --> 1:33:58.720 yet nothing has the penetration of the way it used to. 1:34:00.360 --> 1:34:07.000 Is eternal. You know. Uh, it's been with us since 1:34:07.000 --> 1:34:10.760 the beginning of time. I mean, what's the world's oldest profession, right, 1:34:10.920 --> 1:34:15.200 we say that's prostitution. What's the world's second oldest protests? 1:34:15.600 --> 1:34:19.200 Professionals talking about who's doing it? Right? So, I mean, 1:34:19.280 --> 1:34:24.000 you're gonna have gossip forget, don't don't you know, it's 1:34:24.040 --> 1:34:26.360 too much fun. Everybody likes it. We're told not to, 1:34:26.640 --> 1:34:29.920 you know, that shall not whatever. But the nature of 1:34:31.000 --> 1:34:38.880 it has changed so much, the the that there's it's 1:34:39.040 --> 1:34:41.200 first of it's sound the internet, it's everywhere, you know, 1:34:41.280 --> 1:34:43.560 so you don't have any filters on it anymore. And 1:34:43.640 --> 1:34:46.080 you've got different sets of people, and frankly, more people 1:34:46.120 --> 1:34:53.120 are more interestedout gossip in among their these people in 1:34:53.200 --> 1:34:57.120 the real world or these in celebrities, or these influencers 1:34:57.280 --> 1:35:03.400 or people you know, they're not mostly they're not made 1:35:03.479 --> 1:35:08.200 by movie studios or or even you know anymore. I mean, 1:35:08.680 --> 1:35:10.720 what movie starts with television? Do you care about their 1:35:10.760 --> 1:35:12.800 lives that muchmore? I don't know because I'm your age 1:35:13.240 --> 1:35:17.479 and we I don't know who they are, but they're 1:35:17.520 --> 1:35:20.160 not the great unifying people. These are. There's thousands of them, 1:35:20.960 --> 1:35:23.360 you know. And it's the result of reality TV. It's 1:35:23.400 --> 1:35:26.040 the result of as Andy Warhol said, everybody will be 1:35:26.160 --> 1:35:29.719 famous for fifteen minutes, you know. So everybody is famous 1:35:29.720 --> 1:35:32.479 for fifteen minutes, and we now have the technology that 1:35:32.600 --> 1:35:33.040 enables it. 1:35:34.840 --> 1:35:38.439 So do you read the new J. Penske controlled Rolling Stone? 1:35:40.400 --> 1:35:42.880 Yeah, of course I see it. Yeah. Do I read everything? No, 1:35:43.800 --> 1:35:46.439 but of course it's Yeah. What am I supposed to say? 1:35:46.960 --> 1:35:49.519 It's not in my era anymore? 1:35:51.920 --> 1:35:54.599 Okay, but if you see it, if you could snap. 1:35:55.000 --> 1:35:59.439 Conventional wisdom is that Rolling Stone missed the Internet. It 1:35:59.600 --> 1:36:02.080 was one of many companies that was accused of that. 1:36:03.000 --> 1:36:06.880 If you look at Rolling Stone today and you snap 1:36:07.040 --> 1:36:10.160 my fingers and you're in charge, what would you do differently? 1:36:13.320 --> 1:36:15.639 Well, I think that the first question. I think every 1:36:15.680 --> 1:36:18.360 publishing company missed the Internet, except for The New York Times, 1:36:19.520 --> 1:36:22.439 which seems to have really did finally figure it out. 1:36:22.520 --> 1:36:27.160 I mean, God, bless uh, nobody, none of the no Hurst, 1:36:27.240 --> 1:36:33.240 no Disney, Condie, Nasty Murdoch. Remember my my Space for 1:36:33.280 --> 1:36:35.599 a half a billion notes. Nobody figured out and nobody 1:36:36.560 --> 1:36:38.160 you know, so you can't turn around a big old 1:36:38.400 --> 1:36:40.320 you know, you're running a big old battleship. Nobody you 1:36:40.400 --> 1:36:43.120 can't the new thing. It's hard to figure that out. 1:36:46.640 --> 1:36:48.640 So but I must say I'm the only We're the 1:36:48.720 --> 1:36:51.519 only company didn't lose millions and millions of dollars on 1:36:51.600 --> 1:36:55.680 it by saying we're not going to jump into this prematurely. Uh. 1:36:55.960 --> 1:36:59.200 And if I could snap my fingers, I would put 1:36:59.280 --> 1:37:03.280 myself back in No. I would say, well, if you were, 1:37:03.640 --> 1:37:05.760 if you were back in charge, what would you do. 1:37:06.640 --> 1:37:08.599 I don't. I don't think I should be back in charge. 1:37:09.040 --> 1:37:10.880 I think it's time for new group of people to 1:37:10.960 --> 1:37:12.840 do it. And they're doing it, and they're doing for 1:37:12.920 --> 1:37:15.360 that kind of a newer audience and in a newer way. 1:37:15.760 --> 1:37:19.160 It's very Internet oriented now, more than magazine oriented. And 1:37:19.560 --> 1:37:21.799 I wouldn't have made those I would. I'm a magazine 1:37:21.840 --> 1:37:24.519 person on the Internet person. So you know I'm the 1:37:24.600 --> 1:37:25.120 wrong person. 1:37:26.760 --> 1:37:29.240 Okay, but if you look at MTV, MTV. 1:37:28.920 --> 1:37:30.880 I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't say out there, I 1:37:30.880 --> 1:37:31.880 wouldn't accept the job. 1:37:32.920 --> 1:37:37.720 Okay. MTV famously decided they were going to stick with 1:37:37.840 --> 1:37:41.080 a demo as supposed to stick with their audience. They 1:37:41.240 --> 1:37:46.720 fired the original vj's Rolling Stone certainly evolved. Was that 1:37:46.960 --> 1:37:49.200 something where you sat down and say we have to 1:37:49.439 --> 1:37:53.880 change or was it something happened unconsciously? What was going 1:37:53.920 --> 1:37:57.840 on for those fifty years? Well, oh my fifty years 1:37:58.479 --> 1:38:00.680 were fifty years talking about you. 1:38:02.200 --> 1:38:04.519 We we basically followed the news. What was in the 1:38:04.600 --> 1:38:07.240 news was most people with the movies or was it 1:38:07.680 --> 1:38:11.360 music stars or there's politics or whatever it is. We 1:38:11.760 --> 1:38:13.600 you know, both in terms of what we put on 1:38:13.680 --> 1:38:16.559 the cover and the stories we covered inside of an election, 1:38:17.080 --> 1:38:20.360 So we were always with what the most people were 1:38:20.439 --> 1:38:23.920 interested in. You know, it was a new music star 1:38:24.080 --> 1:38:26.600 like Taylor Swift who was causing us, we put her 1:38:26.640 --> 1:38:29.679 on the cover. You know, it was you know old 1:38:29.760 --> 1:38:32.720 Coot running for office, Hillary Clinton, we put her on 1:38:32.800 --> 1:38:35.280 the cover. If it was you know, a movie star. 1:38:35.400 --> 1:38:38.160 You know, so we we did all kinds of things, 1:38:38.200 --> 1:38:43.360 but basically, what were people who in our culture We 1:38:43.680 --> 1:38:47.240 wanted to influence our generation and leaders of our jertion 1:38:47.600 --> 1:38:50.800 and the people what were the most interested in and 1:38:51.040 --> 1:38:55.080 seeing through the primise prism of culture, you know, using 1:38:55.160 --> 1:38:58.600 culture as a filter for it. So whether it's the 1:38:58.640 --> 1:39:01.600 actual culture or the value of that culture, what that 1:39:02.040 --> 1:39:04.519 culture stood for, what I thought the value should be 1:39:04.840 --> 1:39:10.000 that we should stand for. And we probably covered everything. 1:39:10.040 --> 1:39:12.920 I mean, we we've covered all Team Pop, whether it 1:39:13.040 --> 1:39:15.200 was you know, Brittany and Justin back in the day 1:39:15.280 --> 1:39:17.720 up to Taylor Swift under when I was there, we 1:39:17.760 --> 1:39:20.040 did we had done at least three Taylor Swift covers. 1:39:20.520 --> 1:39:23.519 You know rap we had. We had every raps are 1:39:23.560 --> 1:39:26.200 worth imagining, you know, worth worth it on the cover. 1:39:26.320 --> 1:39:29.880 We never gave us up an inch in our coverage 1:39:29.880 --> 1:39:31.479 of that. And I had the best coverage of any 1:39:31.560 --> 1:39:35.360 magazine of the country on rap, including Vibe and and 1:39:35.600 --> 1:39:47.840 UH almost besides Vibe the source UH and UH and 1:39:47.960 --> 1:39:51.600 politics absolute vital perforce in politics and national politics. We 1:39:51.640 --> 1:39:58.080 had a role of voice in that so and I 1:39:58.280 --> 1:40:02.080 like that. But obviously, you know, things are different now. 1:40:02.560 --> 1:40:06.560 I mean, I think without that unique mix and all that, 1:40:06.960 --> 1:40:14.639 the centrality of a magazine was diminished. And then because 1:40:14.640 --> 1:40:16.280 the impact of the importance of the Internet was so 1:40:16.400 --> 1:40:19.439 much greater, and it kind of diminished the voice. But 1:40:20.880 --> 1:40:23.639 you know, we were unusual, highly unusual. 1:40:24.479 --> 1:40:28.320 You know, Tom will famously disparage The New Yorker. What's 1:40:28.400 --> 1:40:29.759 your take on the New Yorker? 1:40:30.840 --> 1:40:34.280 But I mean his thing was funny at the time. 1:40:34.320 --> 1:40:37.840 I mean The New Yorker was one of my favorite magazines. 1:40:40.040 --> 1:40:41.719 Okay, do you miss scheme? 1:40:43.880 --> 1:40:47.679 I shouldn't. I do, yes, but I'm reconciling the fact 1:40:47.680 --> 1:40:50.599 that I can't. But I loved it. I put years 1:40:50.640 --> 1:40:53.839 of my life into it. Just great joy and pleasure. 1:40:54.120 --> 1:40:56.599 So rumor was that if you heard it was good, 1:40:56.680 --> 1:40:58.880 you would fly out the sun Valley for the weekend 1:40:58.920 --> 1:41:00.280 ski the powder. Was that true? 1:41:00.720 --> 1:41:00.920 Yes? 1:41:02.080 --> 1:41:03.800 So how many days did you get in a year? 1:41:04.920 --> 1:41:07.559 I would do an average of about sixty to seventy 1:41:07.640 --> 1:41:10.080 if you season for about twenty seasons. 1:41:12.840 --> 1:41:13.479 Oh, very much. 1:41:13.560 --> 1:41:15.760 So that's why you'd asked that question last year. 1:41:16.080 --> 1:41:20.759 Last year I got fifties. Well, I went to college 1:41:20.800 --> 1:41:23.240 in Vermont at Middlebury. College had its own ski area. 1:41:23.680 --> 1:41:23.840 Yeah. 1:41:23.880 --> 1:41:27.240 I was a starving freestyle skier in Utah at Snowbird 1:41:27.400 --> 1:41:32.000 for two years. Oh but my girl, those those were 1:41:32.200 --> 1:41:33.920 seventy five and seventy six. 1:41:36.360 --> 1:41:39.440 Interesting. Yeah, I was, yeah going to stay because. 1:41:39.240 --> 1:41:42.040 Seventy seven, just to be clear, since we're going was 1:41:42.160 --> 1:41:45.040 the bad year there wasn't another bad year after that 1:41:45.200 --> 1:41:48.080 till twenty twelve. That was when you know, the skiers 1:41:48.160 --> 1:41:51.800 tell your rye closed for a while. But my girlfriend's 1:41:51.800 --> 1:41:54.120 families had a place in the lodge a Veil since 1:41:54.240 --> 1:41:59.160 the seventies. So although the skiing is not that difficult, 1:41:59.240 --> 1:42:01.880 it veil, that's where I spend most of my time, 1:42:01.960 --> 1:42:04.120 not all of my time. I had Aspen before that, 1:42:04.360 --> 1:42:07.759 I hit Little Cottonwood, Candy a little bit, Sun Valley, 1:42:08.439 --> 1:42:12.519 phenomenal mountain. Just they don't get that much snow, but. 1:42:12.680 --> 1:42:18.720 They got your best nomaking now absolutely absolutely. And the 1:42:19.200 --> 1:42:23.320 season last year, yeah, I yeah, so good. Well, god, 1:42:23.400 --> 1:42:25.800 let's fifty eight days, a lot of skiing, as you 1:42:26.040 --> 1:42:29.760 know what that's like. And I'm sure I could have 1:42:31.120 --> 1:42:34.040 been more of an empire builder and made more money 1:42:34.160 --> 1:42:36.720 and you know, on and on if i'd paid me, 1:42:36.960 --> 1:42:40.200 But I you know, what's life about. You know, it's 1:42:40.320 --> 1:42:42.680 enough money and I had so much fun and my 1:42:42.800 --> 1:42:46.479 kids are all great skiers now, you know, still family time. 1:42:46.600 --> 1:42:48.360 And was it primarily sun Valley? 1:42:49.479 --> 1:42:51.400 Yeah, once you end up in a plate, I mean 1:42:51.640 --> 1:42:54.559 it was. It was Aspen at first was my favorite. Well, 1:42:54.600 --> 1:42:56.920 I grew up in San Francisco. So I ski Squaw Valley, 1:42:56.920 --> 1:42:59.280 in Hemley Valley and the Sugar Bowl, and so as 1:42:59.320 --> 1:43:02.400 a kid, my met on a ski trip. So I 1:43:02.520 --> 1:43:05.599 was really tell me that story. In the forties, they 1:43:05.640 --> 1:43:10.439 were both in your early forties, and my one of 1:43:10.479 --> 1:43:12.559 them put up a note as ski start saying, looking 1:43:12.640 --> 1:43:15.160 for rides this weekend to Hunter a mountain or whatever. 1:43:15.600 --> 1:43:18.920 And that's how they hooked up as skiers, you know, 1:43:18.960 --> 1:43:22.599 and that's how they met. So we as kids who 1:43:22.600 --> 1:43:25.400 were living in San Francisco at the time, naturally we're 1:43:25.439 --> 1:43:28.080 taking up skiing. Every vacation, we went skiing, you know, 1:43:28.200 --> 1:43:31.160 every Christmas, everything, all the time. We went to Squad 1:43:31.200 --> 1:43:32.840 and they were just about to build a house there 1:43:33.479 --> 1:43:37.920 when they decided to divorce instead. So it just it 1:43:38.120 --> 1:43:40.040 just got in the blood, you know, just all of 1:43:40.080 --> 1:43:43.800 this was a family thing. And I picked up again 1:43:43.800 --> 1:43:47.080 as an adult, you know, I skilled till about college, 1:43:47.120 --> 1:43:50.000 and I stopped and started again as an adult. Coinciding 1:43:50.080 --> 1:43:54.800 with starting with Hunter, who lived in Aspen, and he 1:43:54.960 --> 1:43:58.360 was no great help for schime. Terrible terrible, terrible influence. 1:43:58.760 --> 1:44:00.600 If you can't if you stay at two o'clock in 1:44:00.600 --> 1:44:02.400 the morning, you're not going to ski. I mean, that's 1:44:02.479 --> 1:44:06.160 not but started skiing and Aspen and finally when I 1:44:06.200 --> 1:44:08.080 decided I'm going to do this for a good long 1:44:08.160 --> 1:44:11.439 time and now it's time to buy a house, checked 1:44:11.479 --> 1:44:14.280 out the various other ski yeers. Now I've been skiing Aspen, 1:44:14.800 --> 1:44:19.720 Jackson Hole and Snowbirds as a trio. But I'd never 1:44:19.760 --> 1:44:21.320 been to some valley. But I went and looked around 1:44:21.360 --> 1:44:25.599 it tell your ride and Big Sky and Sun Valley 1:44:25.880 --> 1:44:28.000 in some valley was the place that had the best mountain, 1:44:28.200 --> 1:44:31.160 the kind of skiing I like to do, the nicest environment. 1:44:31.160 --> 1:44:32.800 I wanted to get away from Asspen on the drug 1:44:32.920 --> 1:44:36.639 trade and from the living in a big high society culture, 1:44:36.760 --> 1:44:38.800 like the kids were going to grow up anyway, and 1:44:39.160 --> 1:44:41.639 it was just a family place, you know, world class 1:44:41.640 --> 1:44:45.080 skiing with family values and great places. 1:44:45.720 --> 1:44:48.639 So if you skied sixty or seventy days a year, 1:44:49.200 --> 1:44:52.360 would you park your ass in ketch them or would 1:44:52.360 --> 1:44:55.040 we just go out? You get in your plane whenever 1:44:55.120 --> 1:44:56.080 the conditions were good. 1:44:57.400 --> 1:45:01.920 Well, at first I would first few days, first first 1:45:01.960 --> 1:45:04.360 few years, I just parked my ass and you know, 1:45:04.560 --> 1:45:06.559 just get a condo and catch them and all that stuff. 1:45:06.560 --> 1:45:08.760 And as I realized I was doing this more and more. 1:45:09.680 --> 1:45:11.280 I said, we just have to buy a house. We 1:45:11.400 --> 1:45:17.320 bought a house in Hailey, Okay. And it started, and 1:45:17.400 --> 1:45:20.559 I realized that the thing was to spend two Actually, 1:45:20.680 --> 1:45:25.719 if I started scheduling in advance my appointments in stuff 1:45:25.720 --> 1:45:28.120 I do in New York and made it inviolable, then 1:45:28.160 --> 1:45:31.479 I could actually spend hanks of time in Sun Valley 1:45:31.920 --> 1:45:33.559 rather than going out on the spur of the moment. 1:45:33.720 --> 1:45:35.360 So I just converted my thinking too, you know what 1:45:35.479 --> 1:45:38.000 I'm gonna live, I'll think of it as living there 1:45:38.080 --> 1:45:40.720 and coming back to New York the occasional break. I 1:45:40.840 --> 1:45:43.080 started doing that successfully, and after that then I gave 1:45:43.160 --> 1:45:47.120 up the plane because I wasn't commuting back and forth. Yeah, 1:45:47.120 --> 1:45:48.960 I mean I didn't get up right away, but I 1:45:49.120 --> 1:45:51.000 was going out there to live for the season, coming 1:45:51.080 --> 1:45:54.760 back for two or three periods that First they'd be 1:45:54.800 --> 1:45:56.479 two weeks at a time, then it'd be a week 1:45:56.520 --> 1:45:58.200 at a time, and then finally I came back just 1:45:58.520 --> 1:46:03.160 one week, you know, and so and I was, well, 1:46:03.240 --> 1:46:06.160 what are you the kind of guys with coincid? Anybody 1:46:06.240 --> 1:46:10.160 with technological progress like the Internet really helped, you know, 1:46:10.640 --> 1:46:13.240 rather than having things fedexed out overnight and having any 1:46:13.240 --> 1:46:14.240 approved layouts like that. 1:46:15.120 --> 1:46:18.080 Okay, so what would your schedule be? Would you take 1:46:18.160 --> 1:46:21.560 the calls from Europe before you went out there, you know, 1:46:21.640 --> 1:46:23.439 with a high speed list the run two and a 1:46:23.439 --> 1:46:26.600 half times faster. Nobody skis from Bell to Bell. What 1:46:26.800 --> 1:46:27.559 was your schedule? 1:46:28.040 --> 1:46:30.080 I was skiing from Bell de Bell and I was 1:46:30.200 --> 1:46:32.280 exhausted at the end of it and couldn't do the 1:46:32.360 --> 1:46:34.519 work really because I was the only one going up 1:46:34.560 --> 1:46:37.760 after lunch and I haven't got idiot, you know, but 1:46:38.040 --> 1:46:41.960 I as a much warmer. Yeah. And then also I 1:46:42.080 --> 1:46:45.360 was getting into smoking pot skiing and if you do that, 1:46:45.520 --> 1:46:47.960 and I can't smoke it. So I had cookies and 1:46:48.040 --> 1:46:49.800 then they just stay in you all day and then 1:46:50.120 --> 1:46:54.360 you're so tired when you get home. Somehow, I as 1:46:54.400 --> 1:46:56.960 I got older, I just said it wasn't I couldn't 1:46:56.960 --> 1:46:59.240 ski Bell de Bell anymore. That was for young people. 1:46:59.600 --> 1:47:03.120 I stop. I had to finally stop taking cookies because 1:47:03.120 --> 1:47:05.960 I couldn't concentrate. But I got in the morning. First thing, 1:47:06.000 --> 1:47:08.680 I visa to the lifts, and then when I might 1:47:08.760 --> 1:47:10.800 put my young here's what we have, here's what you 1:47:10.880 --> 1:47:15.519 look at in the last over the last ten fifteen years. 1:47:16.120 --> 1:47:19.320 I put my younger kids into school there and not 1:47:19.439 --> 1:47:21.160 in New York City. So in the winters we go 1:47:21.240 --> 1:47:24.000 to community school and ketch them. So I get up early, 1:47:24.040 --> 1:47:25.519 about seven o'clock in the morning and take them out 1:47:25.520 --> 1:47:27.559 to community school and catch them from where we lived 1:47:27.640 --> 1:47:29.960 a half an hour away, drop off school, go over. 1:47:30.200 --> 1:47:31.880 I had a condo at the base of the mountain, 1:47:32.680 --> 1:47:34.840 at the base of Baldy, where I would do some 1:47:34.960 --> 1:47:37.720 phone calls, do my half an hour Internet stuff and 1:47:37.800 --> 1:47:40.040 then go meet be on the first leve at eight 1:47:40.120 --> 1:47:41.920 thirty or nine. 1:47:42.600 --> 1:47:44.000 Was your condo? Worm Springs? 1:47:44.560 --> 1:47:47.840 Yeah, right, the totally at the base of Warms right right. 1:47:47.840 --> 1:47:49.479 We're allowed to do And where where do you like 1:47:49.560 --> 1:47:50.679 to ski? At Sun Valley? 1:47:51.760 --> 1:47:56.040 Those my favorite? Well, skipping the powder days, you know 1:47:56.120 --> 1:47:58.360 when you always want to go to the bowls or 1:47:58.400 --> 1:48:01.400 do some things. I mean skiing. Worm Springs itself is 1:48:01.520 --> 1:48:03.920 just great straight shot down Warm Springs, which you could 1:48:03.960 --> 1:48:06.120 do most of the time. You can do a NonStop 1:48:06.160 --> 1:48:08.479 if you're in shape. Nobody's there except in the holidays. 1:48:08.800 --> 1:48:12.360 I loved that. I liked, you know, squirrel, I think 1:48:12.479 --> 1:48:19.120 was cool great, you know, I mean orange Springs was 1:48:19.160 --> 1:48:21.680 the thing for me, you know, and then I love 1:48:21.800 --> 1:48:28.280 Midriv and uh, what's the next midriv? What's that call? 1:48:28.360 --> 1:48:29.800 I think of it in the second of My memory 1:48:29.840 --> 1:48:37.680 is so shot these days. Uh, and those those are 1:48:37.720 --> 1:48:41.080 the great Those are the great runs. I mean mid 1:48:41.160 --> 1:48:43.400 Rive and worm Strings. You can just haul fucking ass 1:48:43.880 --> 1:48:47.479 so fast, unbelievable. And skin of bumps in the bowl 1:48:47.560 --> 1:48:50.680 is also great. Yeah, it's just that's so fun when 1:48:50.680 --> 1:48:52.479 the conditions are good. Well. 1:48:52.520 --> 1:48:54.920 The great thing about Sun Valley, unlike any other place, 1:48:55.439 --> 1:48:58.400 is the slope starts at a certain pitch and that 1:48:58.600 --> 1:49:02.160 doesn't flatten out until you get to the lift there. 1:49:03.920 --> 1:49:06.400 Yeah, that is the magic. No other is. There's no 1:49:06.520 --> 1:49:07.840 other mountain you can think of like that. 1:49:08.600 --> 1:49:08.840 None. 1:49:09.600 --> 1:49:11.880 And if you're combine that the fact that nobody's there, 1:49:12.800 --> 1:49:16.880 and if patrol doesn't stop you, if nobody's around, you 1:49:16.960 --> 1:49:18.960 can do whatever you want. I mean, the days you 1:49:19.040 --> 1:49:21.080 go up there and warms is just empty for like 1:49:21.479 --> 1:49:25.080 nearly all day. It's just your mountain, your mountain. 1:49:25.800 --> 1:49:27.640 Did you go to other places? Did you go to 1:49:27.720 --> 1:49:29.240 South America? Did you go to Europe? 1:49:29.920 --> 1:49:31.839 We went to you. No, I never went to South America, 1:49:31.880 --> 1:49:33.880 but we went to Europe several times, and that was 1:49:33.920 --> 1:49:36.040 a lot of fun. But it's in the end it's 1:49:36.080 --> 1:49:37.200 not as good as Hunt Valley. 1:49:37.640 --> 1:49:38.200 No it's not. 1:49:39.120 --> 1:49:42.720 I mean the food is better, but even then, and then, 1:49:43.200 --> 1:49:45.160 you know, we went over to Jackson a couple of times, 1:49:45.479 --> 1:49:47.439 and I went back to Aspen a couple times, sealed 1:49:47.479 --> 1:49:50.000 friends and ski a little bit, by and large. Once 1:49:50.040 --> 1:49:51.439 you're settled in, you know, you get to go to 1:49:51.520 --> 1:49:54.479 your own home. You know, as you get older, it's 1:49:54.560 --> 1:49:57.000 more about the comforts than you know, the adventure of 1:49:57.080 --> 1:49:59.360 finding a new spot and you know, are you going 1:49:59.439 --> 1:50:03.760 to finally take culberts which I never did? And uh, 1:50:04.920 --> 1:50:06.040 it's just easier staying home. 1:50:07.800 --> 1:50:11.160 And to what degree did your health problems fuck you 1:50:11.320 --> 1:50:11.839 up mentally? 1:50:13.520 --> 1:50:16.840 I don't think they They make you sit back and 1:50:16.920 --> 1:50:19.680 really think about your life like they always do. And 1:50:19.880 --> 1:50:23.439 I thought that was good. That was helpful for me. Yeah, 1:50:23.479 --> 1:50:25.720 that didn't fuck me up at all. It made me 1:50:25.920 --> 1:50:27.360 think twice, which is great. 1:50:29.320 --> 1:50:32.720 Well, moving forward, to what degree are you impact your 1:50:32.720 --> 1:50:35.639 every day in life impacted by your health issues? 1:50:36.240 --> 1:50:39.640 Well, I'm not, you know, physically active at all. You know, 1:50:39.680 --> 1:50:42.400 I don't going out as a you know, pain any 1:50:42.479 --> 1:50:45.360 ass because they've got bad leg and use a cane. 1:50:46.000 --> 1:50:50.120 But you know, mentally, I'm having totally tons of fun 1:50:50.160 --> 1:50:51.920 and enjoying it, I think, much more than I ever 1:50:52.040 --> 1:50:54.360 have in a way. You know. I've got the kids around, 1:50:54.400 --> 1:50:58.800 which are wonderful to have that life and that engagement around. 1:50:58.920 --> 1:51:02.040 And I'm going to write another book. I'm going to 1:51:02.080 --> 1:51:04.439 try and write another book as soon as I got 1:51:04.479 --> 1:51:08.600 this one out, and mm hmm, just have me a 1:51:08.640 --> 1:51:11.960 great time to love listening to music and learning and 1:51:12.080 --> 1:51:14.160 listening to classical music a lot these days and really 1:51:14.240 --> 1:51:18.439 enjoying that enormously. Uh the new you know, I'll look 1:51:18.439 --> 1:51:21.360 forward to the new Rolling Stones record. Bottom way know 1:51:21.479 --> 1:51:24.120 is cooking one up, and Bob and all my favorites 1:51:24.120 --> 1:51:27.160 are got records going on. Bruce has got one in 1:51:27.240 --> 1:51:30.080 a can two he's working on right now. And uh 1:51:31.960 --> 1:51:35.800 so I'm fulfilled, you know, great marriage, and you know, 1:51:36.040 --> 1:51:38.519 watch my kids throve. It's wonderful. I've me a great time. 1:51:39.280 --> 1:51:40.679 How much do you listen to music? 1:51:42.080 --> 1:51:47.000 A lot a lot, But I don't listen togainst temporary music. 1:51:47.640 --> 1:51:49.840 You know, I listen to my old things. I love 1:51:49.920 --> 1:51:51.880 and the love for a long time, you know, I'll 1:51:51.920 --> 1:51:53.760 go on a kick and I'll listen to Mark Now 1:51:53.880 --> 1:51:56.120 for for three months, you know, and then I'll switch 1:51:56.160 --> 1:51:57.320 and say, oh, it's kind to go back to the 1:51:57.360 --> 1:52:00.120 early Rolling Stones, and it goes around around. This is 1:52:00.320 --> 1:52:06.880 Sergeant Peppers this weekend, and I mean, I forgot. It's huge. 1:52:07.240 --> 1:52:08.360 It's amazing record. 1:52:09.080 --> 1:52:11.599 You know, people have forgotten that talking about Abbey Rude, 1:52:11.600 --> 1:52:14.200 which I don't think is as good that the White Album, 1:52:14.240 --> 1:52:17.160 which is great and uneven. Sergeant Pepper was such a 1:52:17.320 --> 1:52:20.720 breakthrough in those songs, it's unreal. 1:52:21.120 --> 1:52:24.479 I mean, but go it. Yeah, listen to it, go 1:52:24.600 --> 1:52:27.080 back and listen to it carefully, and then you realize 1:52:27.200 --> 1:52:31.200 what was going on before this. Nothing like that was 1:52:31.240 --> 1:52:34.280 going on before. Those are other good songs and good players, 1:52:34.320 --> 1:52:39.040 but nobody had composed this whole thoughtful thing good morning, 1:52:39.080 --> 1:52:42.200 good morning bad and you know it was genius. 1:52:42.880 --> 1:52:46.920 One forgets and also it was in retrospect such a 1:52:47.040 --> 1:52:51.479 short period of time. Yeah, So what do you use 1:52:51.560 --> 1:52:54.080 to listen to? You listening to vinyl, You listen to files, 1:52:54.120 --> 1:52:56.040 listen headphone speakers. 1:52:55.840 --> 1:53:00.479 Anything goes to the yearbuds. They're the easiest, most convene thing. 1:53:00.960 --> 1:53:03.400 I haven't used a pair of really high quality headphones 1:53:03.400 --> 1:53:06.519 in a long time. I just you know, can lay 1:53:06.560 --> 1:53:09.800 down and listen to music, you know what, I and 1:53:09.920 --> 1:53:12.120 anywhere and anyway. It's the quality is good enough for 1:53:12.200 --> 1:53:15.560 me because headphone quality is just in of itself. I 1:53:16.040 --> 1:53:18.160 this is what my latest happens. I go to sleep 1:53:18.240 --> 1:53:21.960 every night, but in Heaven's Melissa Roberson. I made it 1:53:22.360 --> 1:53:27.080 the next tape of roverson I Loves Unbelievable. 1:53:28.800 --> 1:53:31.639 You know, I think that's also being a little bit older. Crying. 1:53:31.760 --> 1:53:34.280 I was too young for crying. Pretty woman is really 1:53:34.320 --> 1:53:38.880 when I came in. And so tell me about your 1:53:38.960 --> 1:53:42.639 two top pinch me moments meeting people. 1:53:43.000 --> 1:53:45.599 Wait a minute, Roy Everson, first of he had two 1:53:45.680 --> 1:53:51.200 records of the modern era, Mystery Girl and Mystery Girl 1:53:51.360 --> 1:53:57.560 and what was the othering? What they call it? Not 1:53:57.720 --> 1:54:01.240 California Blue. Anyway, this last two records. Got to get 1:54:01.280 --> 1:54:05.000 those two records. Okay, they're produced in the modern way, 1:54:06.000 --> 1:54:08.799 and so all the modern and instrumentation is more modern. 1:54:08.960 --> 1:54:11.320 And get a guitar players my mother. So their beautiful 1:54:11.360 --> 1:54:13.760 records have some great great songs on it, and if 1:54:13.800 --> 1:54:16.080 you like them on Traveling Little Berries, it's kind of 1:54:16.280 --> 1:54:21.160 like that, Okay, I urge you to get those records. 1:54:21.640 --> 1:54:25.000 Oh okay, just while you're on this top anything else. 1:54:25.120 --> 1:54:27.920 Personal favorites that are overlooked by me or other people. 1:54:28.720 --> 1:54:32.040 Oh, I can't. That's too long. That's way too long. 1:54:32.440 --> 1:54:35.120 And I have to know what you overlooked, because I'm 1:54:36.680 --> 1:54:39.040 most of my personal favorites are popular stuff anyway, because 1:54:39.040 --> 1:54:41.480 that the best stuff usually gets to be the most popular. 1:54:42.160 --> 1:54:44.280 But Roy, and then if you go back and listen 1:54:44.320 --> 1:54:47.480 to the classic Roy the late fifties and sixty seventies, 1:54:49.360 --> 1:54:53.680 his singing is unbelievable. He's good, his voice is matchless, peerless. 1:54:54.400 --> 1:54:58.240 But the arranging is so wonderfully classic and old fashioned 1:54:58.280 --> 1:55:00.520 and detailed, you know, in the amount of stuff that's 1:55:00.600 --> 1:55:02.800 in the track, and the way they use the strings, 1:55:03.000 --> 1:55:06.360 you know, and how soaring strings and the vocals it's 1:55:06.480 --> 1:55:11.680 just some fonic you mean, other beautiful Go listen carefully 1:55:12.240 --> 1:55:14.120 and then the whole thing. I find it very soft 1:55:14.280 --> 1:55:18.200 and in a way that it's smooth. That's soothing, as 1:55:18.440 --> 1:55:22.000 was what I find. You know, rock is jangling music. 1:55:22.080 --> 1:55:25.600 It's a hard music, things like the who you Know 1:55:25.640 --> 1:55:28.320 and stuff like that. I mean, I'm more into the 1:55:28.360 --> 1:55:30.880 ballady thing. That's why I love Mark Knolfler and our 1:55:30.920 --> 1:55:34.200 straits for that, and Bob does. It's a balancing anyway. 1:55:37.240 --> 1:55:44.160 But two tingling moments, I mean they're all tingling. You know. 1:55:46.880 --> 1:55:48.920 Bob gives me tingles, Mick gives me, I mean all, 1:55:49.280 --> 1:55:51.480 I mean, I don't you know they're tingling moments. 1:55:51.680 --> 1:55:53.680 How about a non musician, It's. 1:55:53.600 --> 1:55:55.640 Hard to say. I mean, I got so accustomed to 1:55:56.880 --> 1:55:59.160 meaning presidents that I don't get tingles out of that, 1:56:00.160 --> 1:56:02.920 you know, seeking the most of meeting people, I mean, god, 1:56:03.520 --> 1:56:06.160 you know, Bob, John Lennon, Mick. 1:56:07.480 --> 1:56:09.920 Okay, so do you have the same access, do you 1:56:10.120 --> 1:56:12.800 miss access? Do you care about access? 1:56:14.720 --> 1:56:18.840 I do. I have the same access. But those people, 1:56:18.880 --> 1:56:24.560 as I've always had, they are friends and colleagues. I mean, 1:56:27.760 --> 1:56:34.320 you know they you know, with Bono with their family, 1:56:34.360 --> 1:56:38.000 his family, and with the Springsteens, a very family relationship 1:56:38.080 --> 1:56:41.280 with those people. You know, they're you know, our families 1:56:41.280 --> 1:56:43.320 are involved with each other. We're involved with our kids 1:56:43.400 --> 1:56:47.560 and our vacations. You know, our social lives are entwined. 1:56:48.240 --> 1:56:53.280 You know, really they're younger, but they're like I don't know, 1:56:54.440 --> 1:56:58.360 for years, you know, up until recently, Uh, you know, 1:56:58.400 --> 1:57:04.919 we're deeply involved with Yoko and Sean. I'm Sean's godfather, 1:57:05.560 --> 1:57:08.840 Sean Yoga's godfather, and one of my kids, Shawn has 1:57:08.880 --> 1:57:12.840 got other to one of my younger kids. And Mick 1:57:13.320 --> 1:57:15.840 I just had lunch with me a couple of weeks ago. Month, 1:57:16.200 --> 1:57:18.720 a couple of weeks ago. So I mean I'm in 1:57:18.880 --> 1:57:21.960 regular contact with everybody. I mean, Bob's not a social 1:57:22.080 --> 1:57:26.240 be and Pete is I don't Pete, I don't see. 1:57:26.880 --> 1:57:29.680 But the rest of the do Are you regularly a 1:57:30.240 --> 1:57:30.960 social being? 1:57:31.040 --> 1:57:33.160 An extrovert or moore of an introvert? Want to be 1:57:33.240 --> 1:57:34.680 home reading both? 1:57:37.880 --> 1:57:38.600 I love them both? 1:57:39.800 --> 1:57:43.040 And to what you wrote an autobiography. Now you have 1:57:43.280 --> 1:57:45.920 this interview book you're talking about another book. To what 1:57:46.160 --> 1:57:48.440 degree are you concerned about legacy? 1:57:50.080 --> 1:57:52.960 I don't pay attention to it that much. Yeah, it's 1:57:53.000 --> 1:57:57.920 not and it's not my issue. My issue is raising 1:57:58.000 --> 1:58:02.240 the kids and by myself. Now you know, let me 1:58:02.320 --> 1:58:05.680 a good, fruitful, productive life now, doing what I can 1:58:06.520 --> 1:58:11.440 to help people, trying to stay healthy and get bring 1:58:11.880 --> 1:58:13.080 happy is my life and others. 1:58:15.240 --> 1:58:17.400 Okay, Yoan, I want to thank you. As far as 1:58:17.480 --> 1:58:20.680 the book, the only interview I hadn't read was the 1:58:20.800 --> 1:58:26.760 first with Townsend, and it's really very interesting to see 1:58:26.800 --> 1:58:30.320 the insight and the intelligence of the different people. I mean, 1:58:30.840 --> 1:58:34.440 Dylan certainly comes across as intelligent. They all have different 1:58:34.480 --> 1:58:40.080 personalities and whatever the reason behind making the book, it's 1:58:40.200 --> 1:58:43.320 no hype that when you sit there, it really brings 1:58:43.480 --> 1:58:47.040 back the era. You know, sets the constellation right. I 1:58:47.240 --> 1:58:49.760 was surprised, not that because I thought it'd be negative, 1:58:49.800 --> 1:58:53.520 but everyone's publishing a book, but it really brought the 1:58:53.800 --> 1:58:57.680 era and the people were part of the era alive. 1:58:59.680 --> 1:59:02.840 It's it's a way, it's a real history as well 1:59:02.960 --> 1:59:06.480 just an anthology collection. When I did it and read off, 1:59:06.520 --> 1:59:09.640 it was just shocked by how much good stuff is, 1:59:09.680 --> 1:59:11.720 how much people really spoke their mind. I mean, it 1:59:11.800 --> 1:59:14.360 had been years since I've read these things, and what 1:59:14.600 --> 1:59:16.960 was really there, I mean it was you don't get 1:59:17.000 --> 1:59:20.080 this at all today, And added all up, I felt 1:59:20.080 --> 1:59:23.560 that I'd taken a trip to my life until next time. 1:59:23.960 --> 1:59:25.360 This is Bob left Stets