1
00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,200
Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

2
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,279
Speaker 1: My guest today is Yon Winner, who's got a new

3
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:21,480
Speaker 1: book of interviews entitled The Masters. Yon. How'd you decide

4
00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:22,400
Speaker 1: who's going to be in the.

5
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,520
Speaker 2: Book, Well, first off, it's good to be here with you, Bob,

6
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,920
Speaker 2: and I'm had to be glad to be welcomed and

7
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,080
Speaker 2: welcomed and welcomed. You bet. Surely I picked the interviews.

8
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,199
Speaker 2: I didn't choose the interviews. They chose me. They are

9
00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,520
Speaker 2: the ones I did over a fifty year period rolling Zone,

10
00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:42,800
Speaker 2: and they were just the people who I was totally

11
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,400
Speaker 2: interested in the most of talking to and finding out

12
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,960
Speaker 2: what they were thinking and about how they did, what

13
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:50,880
Speaker 2: they were doing, what they thought about rock and roll.

14
00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,440
Speaker 2: So it wasn't every deliberate. I didn't decide even to

15
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 2: do this until last year when I look back and

16
00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:03,920
Speaker 2: saw this collection of people represent a really great selection

17
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,280
Speaker 2: of the of the men not women unfortunately, who made

18
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,200
Speaker 2: rock and roll and over this last fifty years made

19
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,520
Speaker 2: it what it was today. They mainly were people, you know,

20
00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,160
Speaker 2: they were old. These are people who have been around

21
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:23,120
Speaker 2: for a while, but they weren't sense The Masters, the Stones, Dylan,

22
00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:30,399
Speaker 2: the Beatles, you know, Bono, the Dead, Bruce Springsteen to who.

23
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,160
Speaker 2: These are the great names of our times. They're not

24
00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,319
Speaker 2: all of them, it's not complete, but these are the

25
00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,560
Speaker 2: ones I gravitated to, and it turns out to be

26
00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:39,240
Speaker 2: a great selection.

27
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,120
Speaker 1: So who was left on the cutting room floor?

28
00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,480
Speaker 2: Well, nobody was left on the cutting floor. I mean

29
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,400
Speaker 2: there's a few interviews I did that I did were

30
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,640
Speaker 2: done with the kind of gravitass and length and intensity.

31
00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,840
Speaker 2: I mean I did leave a Hendrix's interview on the

32
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:58,360
Speaker 2: cutting room floor, because you know, looking back, I was

33
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,360
Speaker 2: like nineteen sixty eight. I just went he was in

34
00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,000
Speaker 2: San Francisco, and I went over to his hotel room.

35
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,600
Speaker 2: We sat aroun all afternoon, smoking dope and playing with

36
00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,400
Speaker 2: the tape recorder. It just wasn't that good. It's not

37
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,240
Speaker 2: very much one. It's going to last a long time.

38
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:15,960
Speaker 2: And then I'm one of the very first sentenced with

39
00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,480
Speaker 2: a guitar named Mike Blomfield, who was a great guitarist,

40
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,520
Speaker 2: somewhat obscure but also not a great think about rock

41
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,520
Speaker 2: and roll and all the issues that were attacked to

42
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,040
Speaker 2: it in terms of youth culture and the politics of

43
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:32,000
Speaker 2: the United States.

44
00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,280
Speaker 1: Okay, The interviews ranged from nineteen sixty eight with Pete

45
00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:42,040
Speaker 1: Towns into today twenty twenty three with Springsteen. Did you

46
00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,800
Speaker 1: always have in the back of your mind this fifty

47
00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:50,080
Speaker 1: five year old interview with Townshend or did you have

48
00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,120
Speaker 1: to go back and review what interviews you had done.

49
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 2: I always had it in mind. Once the idea that

50
00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,800
Speaker 2: I would do this book came, I didn't do that.

51
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,639
Speaker 2: I mean, this is this is most of the work

52
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,240
Speaker 2: that I did, because I didn't do interviews as a

53
00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,440
Speaker 2: general thing. I was busy running a magazine. But if

54
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,840
Speaker 2: there was somebody I was really interested in, wanted to

55
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,360
Speaker 2: talk and wanted to learn from, wanted to just soak

56
00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,280
Speaker 2: up the vibe, I understand, why is it that we're

57
00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 2: all so excited about this music? I would I would

58
00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,079
Speaker 2: go do interview them with so I knew that they

59
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,480
Speaker 2: were there. Of course I read them again, but it

60
00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,240
Speaker 2: was clear to me which they were. These were all

61
00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,240
Speaker 2: of them, really, except for Hendricks and Bloomfield. Okay, but

62
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,640
Speaker 2: I used to interview the presidents too. I interviewed Obama

63
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,200
Speaker 2: and Clinton and gal Go and so forth. But this

64
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 2: is about music, not about politics.

65
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,440
Speaker 1: Just staying with the politics for a second, could you

66
00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,640
Speaker 1: get straight? I mean, I read these interviews were in

67
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,120
Speaker 1: when they were in the magazine Rolling Stone, of course,

68
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,040
Speaker 1: but when you're there sitting down with them, are they

69
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 1: answering honestly or are they always weaseling? And how do

70
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:55,680
Speaker 1: you nail them.

71
00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 2: Down about musicians or politicians? Politicians politicians are not weasling

72
00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 2: or lying or if you try to ask them stuff

73
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,160
Speaker 2: that is kind of got youa question or is going

74
00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 2: to get them in trouble. You know they're not going

75
00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,800
Speaker 2: to answer you. Number one, because the slightest mistake they

76
00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,039
Speaker 2: make can be used by the opposing party. Now, these

77
00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,919
Speaker 2: are interviews I did in the middle of elections. You know,

78
00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,160
Speaker 2: the slightest little mistatement and the other guy's going to

79
00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,120
Speaker 2: jump on you. And the other guy being Republican, they're

80
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,080
Speaker 2: usually merciless, you know, I'm thankless, and they're ability to

81
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,000
Speaker 2: distort and anything. So there's a danger in it. So

82
00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,480
Speaker 2: also I find those areas boring. You know, the gotcha

83
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:47,599
Speaker 2: question is never interesting in the end what I'm trying

84
00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,360
Speaker 2: to do. And also the other thing is that because

85
00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 2: the politics are so rough these days and the communications

86
00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,680
Speaker 2: around us, media is so intense, you know, focus on everything.

87
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,039
Speaker 2: They are really pretty carefully rehearsed about everything they're going

88
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,480
Speaker 2: to say. Not rehearse in the sense of rehearsal for debate,

89
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,000
Speaker 2: but their practice. They know their positions on stuff. They've

90
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,000
Speaker 2: been vetted, They've discussed the stuff with their advisors. It's

91
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,520
Speaker 2: a product of a lot of policy stuff. They've decided

92
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,039
Speaker 2: already what they're going to stand for, and what they're

93
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,839
Speaker 2: going to campaign, and what they're going to stand for,

94
00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,280
Speaker 2: and what's the best compromise of interests, say between unions

95
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,680
Speaker 2: in the coal industry and you know, environmentals. They've come

96
00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,760
Speaker 2: up with their ability how to satisfy all the interests

97
00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:30,480
Speaker 2: where they want where they want to be on a position.

98
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,080
Speaker 2: So you're not going to get them to make any

99
00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,040
Speaker 2: breakthroughs there. So what I do is when I interview

100
00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:37,720
Speaker 2: them is I want to try and get to know

101
00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,520
Speaker 2: them a little better. I want to know a little

102
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,640
Speaker 2: about how they feel about things. How do you feel

103
00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,479
Speaker 2: about you know, when you go to the Arctic, like

104
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,440
Speaker 2: say Obama did or whatever. Do you worry about your

105
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,359
Speaker 2: own kids and what's going to happen you know in

106
00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,200
Speaker 2: twenty years, where's your level of compassion about this anything?

107
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,200
Speaker 2: And just trying to get the personal aspect. You have

108
00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 2: to know those persons. I always ask them, of course,

109
00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,920
Speaker 2: what's their favorite music? And not to me that's fascinating

110
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,640
Speaker 2: and it tells you a lot about the individuals. I mean,

111
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,280
Speaker 2: I can tell you exactly these people are almost by

112
00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,440
Speaker 2: type because of the music they listen to. You know,

113
00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,040
Speaker 2: al Go is a total Beatles fan, you know, Bob

114
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,160
Speaker 2: Dylan fan. The new Dylan record come out, he listened

115
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,760
Speaker 2: to thirty times. I know, I know that person. You know. Uh,

116
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,440
Speaker 2: Obama was a big Stevie Wonder loved the Rolling Stones,

117
00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,320
Speaker 2: picked all the right albums, you know. Quoted Dylan to me,

118
00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,560
Speaker 2: but not the when Obama said that's one of his

119
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,760
Speaker 2: favorite spoke to him during his campaign. The Dylan. He

120
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,080
Speaker 2: didn't say blowing in the wind or the times that

121
00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,680
Speaker 2: you know, or how many roads must say. He said, well,

122
00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,640
Speaker 2: it's Pizza's, you know, Maggie's farm. In others, I ain't

123
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,560
Speaker 2: going to work on Maggie's farm no more. And which

124
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,840
Speaker 2: is a song about, you know, it's working on plantation,

125
00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,200
Speaker 2: you know, black people being I mean, he was deep

126
00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 2: into it, you know, and he's getting the real anyway.

127
00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:59,120
Speaker 2: That's the politician thing not to say. You know, you

128
00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,280
Speaker 2: asked about issues and a lot of serious stuff. But

129
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 2: I think the issue with my interviewing, well, I like

130
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,560
Speaker 2: about my interviews with the musicians and with the politicians.

131
00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:16,960
Speaker 2: I am not there to challenge you, you know, or

132
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,200
Speaker 2: hold you up on the cross for your sins imagine. Otherwise,

133
00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,200
Speaker 2: I'm there to find out what you think you know,

134
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 2: and what you believe, and what's influenced you and where

135
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,720
Speaker 2: you came from, and what your vision is for yourself

136
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,920
Speaker 2: and for our country. And I find those things much

137
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,280
Speaker 2: more interesting, harder to get and rare to find. And

138
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,040
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the things that's so special

139
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,440
Speaker 2: about my interviewing and style and about the book I

140
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:46,800
Speaker 2: just wrote or just put out.

141
00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,360
Speaker 1: Just staying with politics for a minute, Jimmy Carter was

142
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,680
Speaker 1: constantly quoting Bob Dylan other rock lyrics. Was friends with

143
00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,920
Speaker 1: the Allman Brothers. Was that fake or was that real?

144
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,160
Speaker 2: So that was real? You know, I mean that was real.

145
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,680
Speaker 2: You look talked to re endorsed him, Hunter, fell in

146
00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,480
Speaker 2: love with him, but talked to Bob about it, for example,

147
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,040
Speaker 2: you know who spent all this time with Carter talking

148
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:18,640
Speaker 2: to him, you know, and uh, discussing all the concerns

149
00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,480
Speaker 2: that they would have in his lyrics. I mean, Jimmy

150
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,320
Speaker 2: Carter is the real deal, you know his I'm very

151
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,720
Speaker 2: unusual for president to be so direct and open, you know,

152
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,400
Speaker 2: and candidate about stuff. And you know, he paid the

153
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,840
Speaker 2: price for that a little, you know, he paid the

154
00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,839
Speaker 2: price for his times. He I don't you know, he

155
00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,439
Speaker 2: van against Reagan. He had the hostage christ. I mean,

156
00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,199
Speaker 2: I think that could have all worked, and he would

157
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,320
Speaker 2: if he had been in reelected. It wouldn have gone

158
00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,240
Speaker 2: through even greater things, you know, but in of itself,

159
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,080
Speaker 2: I think he would have did was so important. Okay.

160
00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,840
Speaker 1: There are two Dylan interviews in the book. One is

161
00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:01,120
Speaker 1: classic Dylan in the Yobs the Skates. One is more honest,

162
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,520
Speaker 1: what was your experience like in terms of getting some

163
00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,559
Speaker 1: level of truth, getting anything at all from doing well?

164
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,280
Speaker 2: Bob is the trickster, you know, he's a the joker man.

165
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 2: He's the you know, a song and dance guy. He's

166
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,520
Speaker 2: very funny, he has and a great wit was he

167
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,320
Speaker 2: like says, and he also it's an attitude which is

168
00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,360
Speaker 2: I don't he doesn't really want to explain a lot

169
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,840
Speaker 2: of stuff to you, you know, I mean he's reluctant

170
00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,000
Speaker 2: to give it up, and what do you need to

171
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 2: know it for? And also he's been bugged all his

172
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,199
Speaker 2: life by people who have found such deep meaning and

173
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,559
Speaker 2: views about life that are so more important to them.

174
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,480
Speaker 2: I mean, he understands the role he's played in people's

175
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,560
Speaker 2: life and people's lives, in our country's life, and he

176
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,320
Speaker 2: gets all that. And I think he understands where where

177
00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:58,160
Speaker 2: he stands in poetry and literature, and almost exactly where

178
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,680
Speaker 2: he stands. You know, he would never admen any of that.

179
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,640
Speaker 2: He would profess I don't know, you know this. I

180
00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaker 2: just can here to amuse people. I'man here to sing

181
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,720
Speaker 2: songs or amuse people, or I'm a song and dance

182
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,360
Speaker 2: man or stuff like that, which is patently untrue. And

183
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,800
Speaker 2: he knows that, but he and he just likes playing games.

184
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,400
Speaker 2: So I think when I read over the first interview,

185
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,520
Speaker 2: the one you're referring to it as a classic, and

186
00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 2: the one that's which he seems to be most evasive,

187
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,160
Speaker 2: read a little more carefully. He's not that evasive. If

188
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to answer a question, he won't answer it,

189
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,760
Speaker 2: and he'll say so, you know, I mean, it's or

190
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,280
Speaker 2: where was that one about? Or I say, well, we'll

191
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,360
Speaker 2: have to see about that. I mean, he gets out

192
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:49,480
Speaker 2: of it not by lying, you know, but by kind

193
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:54,520
Speaker 2: of amusingly, you know, softball in the question, throw any

194
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,880
Speaker 2: question away, or hitting with the side of his hand

195
00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:04,240
Speaker 2: in a gentle and very funny fashion. And at that period,

196
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,080
Speaker 2: at that time, for that period, that was as straight

197
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,760
Speaker 2: as he was ever and again straightforward with people in interviews.

198
00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,000
Speaker 2: So but I know what you're saying, and so you

199
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,320
Speaker 2: know these he's difficult to interview. But the thing about

200
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,360
Speaker 2: that partic an interview I thought was really great is

201
00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,040
Speaker 2: it felt so much of that time and place. It's

202
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,840
Speaker 2: so recalled that Bob Dylan. You know, you could just

203
00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,920
Speaker 2: hear it, you know, that was him. Then it was

204
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:30,400
Speaker 2: so authentic, you know. And he was also reading again

205
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,680
Speaker 2: readingting in life. He was very personal about stuff, you know,

206
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 2: because I was kept asking, how do you feel about being,

207
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,320
Speaker 2: you know, the so called youth theater and he said

208
00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:39,680
Speaker 2: I don't. And he says, I don't want to. I

209
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,480
Speaker 2: wasn't meant for that. You know, there are people in

210
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,280
Speaker 2: that position. I could lift every burden. I would, but

211
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:50,640
Speaker 2: that's not me. That's not my job. But then so

212
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,439
Speaker 2: I find it such an interesting document. I mean, just

213
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 2: that preserves Bob in that period so brilliantly, and it's

214
00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,760
Speaker 2: a better and nicer Bob than you see and don't

215
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,080
Speaker 2: look back. And then in the second one, which we

216
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,319
Speaker 2: did in two thousand seven, I think because the day

217
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 2: this is of course very much sure Bob. I mean,

218
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 2: he's got modern times out at that time, and he's

219
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,200
Speaker 2: just much more reflective and deep and thoughtful about everything.

220
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,880
Speaker 2: But it's that funny thing. It starts off with a

221
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,400
Speaker 2: tease he's doing to me, you know, like saying, well,

222
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,080
Speaker 2: I don't you know, like I'm not gonna hang I

223
00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,280
Speaker 2: can't you know what? You know? Like just putting me

224
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,120
Speaker 2: through the ringer a little. And by that time we

225
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 2: gotten to know each other and trust each other, and

226
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:32,920
Speaker 2: it's reflective of that.

227
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,839
Speaker 1: Okay, you leave the grammatical errors in Bob's language in

228
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,720
Speaker 1: the book. Is that an affectation? Does he really know

229
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,559
Speaker 1: the right word to use or is it him being uneducated?

230
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,520
Speaker 2: What is it? I don't think I leave the grammatical

231
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:53,000
Speaker 2: errors and.

232
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:58,800
Speaker 1: Well, no, he'll say them instead of they Yeah.

233
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,800
Speaker 2: Well, I think think when you edit a verbal interview

234
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,840
Speaker 2: for reading, you have to now turn into something as readable.

235
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,840
Speaker 2: And if you always get this, if you get a

236
00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,680
Speaker 2: constant repeating thing all the time, or misuse of grammar,

237
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,640
Speaker 2: you know, I gintly take it all out, unless somehow

238
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,240
Speaker 2: you're learning something from that or there's something idiomatic or

239
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:25,040
Speaker 2: special about that. But the repetition of stuff can become cliched. Also,

240
00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,440
Speaker 2: like and the ones who are hardest. It took a

241
00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,840
Speaker 2: lot of editing, particularly Jerry Garcia, because here's a lot

242
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,240
Speaker 2: of a man's and old man and wow, and you know,

243
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,480
Speaker 2: a lot of that kind of hippie stuff. And when

244
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,080
Speaker 2: you listen to the tape you don't even hear it,

245
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,480
Speaker 2: but if you see it on the written page, you know, Jesus,

246
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,160
Speaker 2: there's five wows in one sense, you know, in seven us.

247
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,439
Speaker 2: And so you want to clean up as a courtesy,

248
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,839
Speaker 2: but without changing any meaning and also leaving enough in

249
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:53,600
Speaker 2: so you can get the sense of the person, the

250
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,280
Speaker 2: way they talk and who they are.

251
00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,760
Speaker 1: So striking a balance. Okay, what's fascinating to me is

252
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,880
Speaker 1: in your talk with Dylan and your talk with Bono,

253
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,600
Speaker 1: there's a lot of accolades for bringing it all back home.

254
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:13,040
Speaker 1: Whereas conventional wisdom is highway sixty one, which has like

255
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,800
Speaker 1: a rolling stone and then blonde on blonde thereafter. So

256
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 1: in your own personal hierarchy from that early era, the

257
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,920
Speaker 1: pre seventy or the pre so called motorcycle accident era,

258
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,040
Speaker 1: what is the greatest work?

259
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,480
Speaker 2: Well, it's that's a hard and say. But say in

260
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,480
Speaker 2: that era if you want to talk about that pre

261
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,800
Speaker 2: John Mussey Harding, pre motorcycle accident, and you're saying, really

262
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,520
Speaker 2: the bawd I'm blombering out back Home or or Highway

263
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 2: sixty one. I mean it's a matter of personal preference really,

264
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,400
Speaker 2: or maybe when you first heard it, I'm a Highway

265
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:52,640
Speaker 2: sixty one guy. Yeah, but the other two are just

266
00:14:52,840 --> 00:15:00,600
Speaker 2: genius as well. Bono as an intellectual guy, so he

267
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,480
Speaker 2: he likes bringing it All back home, you know, and

268
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,480
Speaker 2: they're grateful dead first Jerry and those people came into

269
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,600
Speaker 2: it during Bringing It All Back Home, during that kind

270
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,480
Speaker 2: of folk era. But like Bruce says, he's listened to

271
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,720
Speaker 2: I Was sixty one of one hundred times, you know.

272
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,280
Speaker 2: I mean that's where he got his rock. That's when

273
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 2: he grew up and he came into it. Was it

274
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,520
Speaker 2: that record he didn't renewed Bringing All Back home and existed.

275
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,640
Speaker 2: He just heard that rock and roll sound on sixty

276
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,440
Speaker 2: one with Mike Bloomfield and Al Kubernet Band and went nuts,

277
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 2: as did I. So they're all it's hard to say.

278
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,920
Speaker 2: They are great records, you know, and they continue to

279
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:38,880
Speaker 2: be records.

280
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,920
Speaker 1: Okay. So were you aware of the first Dylan album

281
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 1: on Columbia which was mostly covers or did you come

282
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,040
Speaker 1: in on free Wheeling? Where did you come in?

283
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,200
Speaker 2: I came in on Bringing It All Back Home, and

284
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,200
Speaker 2: I suppose Highway sixty one more than anything.

285
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,320
Speaker 1: Okay, So how did you become aware of Bringing in

286
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,880
Speaker 1: It All back Home? Because of course there were covers,

287
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,880
Speaker 1: but it wasn't until Highway sixty one that Bob was

288
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 1: on top forty radio and this is prior to the

289
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,720
Speaker 1: breakthrough of underground FM radio.

290
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 2: Well, you know, the first big, big Dyn't hit song

291
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,440
Speaker 2: was Mister Tambourine Man by the Birds, and so once

292
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,360
Speaker 2: you heard that, which was a breakout song, you know

293
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,440
Speaker 2: in this writing and what was saying and take me

294
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,160
Speaker 2: on a trip on your wellness spaceship whatever you know,

295
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,440
Speaker 2: through the smoke brings of your mind with that so

296
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 2: called folk rock twelves Dring, Jim mcguinnac companyment. You know,

297
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:35,840
Speaker 2: you merely sat up and said, where'd this come from?

298
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,800
Speaker 2: And let me find out about it? But also your

299
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,520
Speaker 2: friends were telling you about it, and it just you know,

300
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,440
Speaker 2: everybody's discovering you know, a lot of people were discovering

301
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,000
Speaker 2: Bob Big at that particular point, you know, and the

302
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,120
Speaker 2: more populars that song broke broke Bob through to the

303
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,800
Speaker 2: rock and roll audience and broke through folk rock and

304
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,400
Speaker 2: set the stage for a sixty one.

305
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 1: Okay. There's a lot of debate fifty odd years later

306
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:08,280
Speaker 1: as to how extensive Bob's motorcycle accident was, whether that's

307
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,600
Speaker 1: an issue of retiring from public observation, or whether he

308
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,960
Speaker 1: was really banged up. What's your opinion.

309
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 2: I think he was really banged up. You can get

310
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,200
Speaker 2: pretty banged up in a motorcycle accident. But I also

311
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,600
Speaker 2: think it came at a time where he needed to

312
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,719
Speaker 2: be slowed down because I think he was taking a

313
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,440
Speaker 2: lot of speed then a lot of drugs, and I

314
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 2: think it's kind of evident in his behavior and his lyrics.

315
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,440
Speaker 2: You know, I'm just you know, this just an intuitive,

316
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:39,679
Speaker 2: non experts opinion. This is an expert opinion. The UH

317
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,760
Speaker 2: and he needed to slow down. He's forced to slow down,

318
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,600
Speaker 2: you know, by the hand of God or whatever by

319
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 2: taking a turn or too fast. And he understood it

320
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,240
Speaker 2: as such that it was a sign signal, you know,

321
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,200
Speaker 2: they wouldn't been out there recklessly motorcycles. So I think

322
00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,000
Speaker 2: it was key and critical to his work. I mean,

323
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 2: I think what he did next, because he did John

324
00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:06,239
Speaker 2: Wessey Harden, right, which is a complete turn from you know,

325
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 2: thirty minutes songs on blonde and Blonde I'm talking about,

326
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,119
Speaker 2: you know, amphetamines and pearls and your magazine husband just

327
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 2: has to go and stuff like that to a very

328
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,760
Speaker 2: very classic restrained country album made National, which is a

329
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 2: beauty and said, you know, it's a different Bob. After that,

330
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:25,640
Speaker 2: I think it was very real.

331
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,280
Speaker 1: Okay, in a different era where there are limited media sources,

332
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone broke the story of the basement Tapes, the

333
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,679
Speaker 1: Great White wonder, how did you become aware of that?

334
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,280
Speaker 2: I had forgotten that I had done that I had

335
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,679
Speaker 2: and I read it somewhere in its very small world

336
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 2: then of the music industry and music people and music scenes.

337
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,199
Speaker 2: Somebody gave me a copy of this tape that they

338
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,240
Speaker 2: had sent out for Demos to as Demos started selling songs,

339
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,760
Speaker 2: and it was circling around at A few people know

340
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,400
Speaker 2: about it, and here here's something special. Was well, had

341
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,199
Speaker 2: no public visibility whatsoever. And I heard it and loved it,

342
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 2: and then I thought, this is an album. I mean,

343
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 2: this could justifies easily being released on I wrote a

344
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,440
Speaker 2: thing in Rolling Stone and like issue fifteen or fourteen

345
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,359
Speaker 2: or something, say debate and said the Basement Tapes must

346
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,119
Speaker 2: be released, you know. And and I reviewed what was

347
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:24,679
Speaker 2: on there and said why it should be released, And

348
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,359
Speaker 2: soon enough they released him.

349
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: Okay, in the fall of seventies, I believe you printed

350
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 1: a whole story that was a hoax about this album.

351
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:43,480
Speaker 1: What was the genesis of that?

352
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,640
Speaker 2: I had nothing to do with it. It was greal Marcus.

353
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 2: It was a very distinguished Craig was our record review

354
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,679
Speaker 2: headed there, and he and some of the other his friends,

355
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 2: and there were also some of the critics decide they

356
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 2: put together. It was an album called the Masked Marauders

357
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 2: or was it called Yeah, Great Much Wonder the Hottest.

358
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,159
Speaker 2: The name of the album was A Great White Wonder.

359
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 2: This is after this is uh at the era of

360
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,919
Speaker 2: the super group. So called it was when you know,

361
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,800
Speaker 2: uh Bloomfield was playing. I forgot which the groups were.

362
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 2: Traffic may have formed in or maybe it was Cream

363
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,119
Speaker 2: was around then, and they started guest musicians with other bands.

364
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,399
Speaker 2: Was very unusual then it didn't happen. You had to

365
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 2: have the actual permission of the record company that you

366
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 2: were signed you to participate. I mean so antique. It's

367
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 2: these these are long ago days, feel And so they

368
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 2: wrote a spoof. They did a spoof for the super

369
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 2: group and they reviewed it. I mean, they didn't do

370
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 2: the right They wrote a review of the Great White

371
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 2: Wonder and said that Bob Dylan, Mick Jagger and Paul

372
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 2: McCartney or whomever had all assembled secretly in Hudson Bay, Canada,

373
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 2: you know, and put together this great record and it

374
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,439
Speaker 2: was flying out the shelves or whatever. People. So we

375
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 2: started getting phone call with the office asked how do

376
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 2: you get the record? How do you get in touch

377
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 2: with the group? You know, managers calling record comings balling

378
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 2: there because they want to get a hold of it. Well,

379
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 2: of course, so Greal said, whether they go ahead and

380
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 2: record the album? And then Warner Brothers signed it, you know,

381
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 2: no as a just general good time goof okay. In

382
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 2: the second Dillon interview, nowadays throw you in jail for

383
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 2: violenting your copyright.

384
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 1: The second Dillon interview, you talk about the Endless Tour,

385
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 1: although it's not referred to under that moniker. Whereupon he

386
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 1: rearranges the music and he the classic tunes. Anybody who

387
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,479
Speaker 1: goes to the show knows that he may play a

388
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 1: classic tune and you may not even recognize it. Bob

389
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,919
Speaker 1: gives his explanation. Do you buy his explanation, and do

390
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 1: you still enjoy the modern day concerts which are not faithful?

391
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 2: Well, I forget his explanation and just refresh me on that.

392
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: Well, it's basically he says, the song deems to be

393
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: played that way, that ultimately you start with the recording,

394
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: then the song evolves and every night there's a different listen.

395
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: It's a facocta explanation. That's why I asked you.

396
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 2: There's a you know, there's a grain of truth in

397
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 2: that explanation, but that's all. That's about what there is

398
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 2: on that beach. I think that there's a couple of

399
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 2: things work. He has more fun doing it differently rather

400
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 2: than singing at the same time. Eighteen million time in

401
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 2: a row, and then there's a period in there where

402
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 2: he would I thought, did it deliberately just to confuse, frustrate,

403
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 2: you know, do whatever kind of strange thing is in

404
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 2: his mind. I mean, he has got to have known

405
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 2: that the audience comes to hear some of the big

406
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 2: hits as well his new stuff, and it's a disappointments

407
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,400
Speaker 2: to people not to hear one of their favorite Bob

408
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: songs done in a way you expect to hear, and

409
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 2: then to not regulariz which he knows they're not recognizable,

410
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: and we called them on it, and I'm sure a

411
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 2: lot of other people that I remember even walking out

412
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 2: of a Dylan show years ago because of that. You know,

413
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 2: it's just so you know, you don't want to know

414
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 2: that the song is you know, you barely recognize it,

415
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 2: and it's frustrating and it's and it's disrespectful of his audience. Well,

416
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 2: somewhere along the line, you know, about ten years ago,

417
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 2: he changed that and he went back to doing this song.

418
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 2: So now he does something really interesting. He does a

419
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 2: couple of versions of the old songs in generally the

420
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: old style or the familiar style, you know, a little

421
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 2: a little better, a little that which is really satisfacing.

422
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 2: They don't take a few, he'll really rework them in

423
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 2: a way that's so amazing. He will turn something, you know,

424
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 2: a ballot into a stately, dignified, aching, beautiful song of

425
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 2: something like like don't Think twice, you know it just

426
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 2: it becomes a gospel tune almost. I mean, they're beautiful

427
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: what he does with it. And now what he's doing,

428
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 2: and that is he's really singing primarily his new records

429
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 2: and his new songs, which he's got a lot of now,

430
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 2: and he doesn't have the voice for the old songs,

431
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 2: you know, it's not they don't suit him anymore, and

432
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 2: it's better for him to stay away from them because

433
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 2: he can't do you know, tambourine man or blown in

434
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,360
Speaker 2: the wind like he used to in the way you want.

435
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 2: It's got to be in a different way. And he's

436
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 2: doing that with real taste and style of imagination now

437
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 2: and he's accepting, you know, his new voice. It's kind

438
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 2: of blown out and horsemen smoking, but nonetheless quite beautiful.

439
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: Let's switch to Jerry Garcia.

440
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 2: What do we know?

441
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: Had four albums, well, three albums before Live Dead, and

442
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: if you opened up Live Dead from nineteen sixty nine,

443
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: you saw the Grateful Dead playing in the streets of

444
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: San Francisco. The real breakthrough was working Man'stead and then

445
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: American Beauty. But since you were living on the West

446
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: Coast prior to Working Man's Dead. In the book, Jerry

447
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 1: gives a relatively complete delineation of his history and his

448
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: history of the band. But were you aware of the

449
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: Dead back then and what was their cultural impact? Oh?

450
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: Well, I was aware of the Dead before I even

451
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: started Rolling Stone. I mean they were part of this

452
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 2: kind of like hippie drug scene that I was getting into.

453
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 2: A few people in Palo Alto near Stanford, doing me

454
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: in Berkeley, and a bunch of kids in San Francisco

455
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: State And so everybody in each of those three scenes

456
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 2: was taking drugs and aware of the people in the

457
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: other scenes and go back and forth. That was the

458
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 2: genesis of it all. So I happened to because of

459
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 2: that run into the Dead. In nineteen sixty sixty five,

460
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 2: I went to a Rolling Stones concert in San Jose

461
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: and next door to the you know, or in that

462
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 2: same neighborhood. The very first as well, so the very

463
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: first asstest was being and I went to that and

464
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: it was The Dead was playing in the living room

465
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 2: of this big kind of college attorney or something like that.

466
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: And it was the first night they'd ever performed as

467
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: the Grateful Dead. They had been Mother McCurry's jug band

468
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: up until that, and that was the first night they

469
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 2: were using that name. It was just in somebody's living room,

470
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 2: but it was the group. It was them, and and

471
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 2: I went up to it was either less or we

472
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 2: Are and I said, well, wow, you guys, and I'm

473
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: taking acid at the time. You guys are like, oh

474
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: my god, mind blowing. What is your name? And he

475
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: turns around and goes, we are the Grateful Dead, and

476
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 2: well what is that? Okay? But then so anyway, I

477
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 2: would see them a lot before starting rolling the Stone,

478
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: and once I started Rolling Stone, they were, of course,

479
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 2: you know, part of what we did. One of my

480
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 2: best friends was the best friend of the Bill Kreisman,

481
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 2: a drummer, and kind of managed them on the road

482
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: for a little bit. And so you know, I saw

483
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 2: a lot of them, you know, And I'm a dead head.

484
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: And what about keys? You were you aware? Have you

485
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: read one flew overs the Cuckoo's Nests and the Acid

486
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: tests and was he a presence or did you have

487
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: to wait for Tom Wolves book to find out what

488
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: was really going on?

489
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 2: Oh? I didn't have to wait for Tom's book. I

490
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: we keasey how I was aware of Keysy. I went

491
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: to acid tests. I've been down at his house. We

492
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: uh uh. Everybody knew his books and there were brilliant,

493
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: great books, I mean great books. And he was just

494
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 2: a key member of that that tripartina was part tight

495
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 2: scene I was talking about. He was in Stanford. He

496
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 2: participated in the first LSD experiments conducted by some government

497
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: agency with Stanford under contract to Stanford, and part of

498
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 2: that group of guys go, who this stuff is fantastic.

499
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 2: I don't know what they're trying to test for, and

500
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: turned on the Grateful Dead and a lot of other

501
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: people to the acid around there. And so keysys in

502
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: a way the v godfather of the San Francisco scene

503
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 2: and asked tests and you know, just sort of one

504
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: branch of the hippie thing. Ken later, you know, became

505
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 2: a regular contribute to Throwing Stone. I mean, I think

506
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 2: I cut it up. He wrote about I think twenty

507
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: seven pieces for Rolling Stone over the years, and you know,

508
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: He's a hero of mine, and in a way I mean,

509
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 2: I think he's I said, the god of the sea.

510
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: He is a great man, great American novelist.

511
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: Okay, so to what degree did electrocool aid acid test

512
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: have an impact upon you personally?

513
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: He didn't personally impact I'd already been there and done that.

514
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 2: It impacted me on that. I was so impressed with

515
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: Tom and how he was able to catch what I

516
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 2: consider such an evanescent scene, you know, something that's ephemeral

517
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: and ethereal and hard hard to get, and he got it,

518
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 2: and it made me all the more impressed with him.

519
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: So I just one of the first things I did

520
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: when I started rolling stones try and find him, seek

521
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 2: him out, and to get the right to get to

522
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: get him to write for us. And I did, and

523
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: he did write for us, and the history came out

524
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 2: of that.

525
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: Okay. Unfortunately Tom has passed, But in the aftermath and

526
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: a little bit during his leader years, people said that

527
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: he was a Republican right winger. Would you agree with that?

528
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: Uh? You know, I never talked politics with Tom in

529
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: that way, partially because I suspected or new he was

530
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 2: very conservative individual, but not he wasn't concerned in this

531
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 2: hard right sense that people are now. Tom was a humanist,

532
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 2: you know, he liked people. He liked weird people, you know,

533
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: and weird culture. I mean, by no means was he

534
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: kind of one of those William F. Buckley type haters.

535
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: He was kind of snobby Tom. You know, he could

536
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 2: be very he was very elegant, aristocratic his thing. He

537
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 2: was very conservative. He's old fashioned. He's a very old

538
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 2: fashioned gentleman. And he was a great gentleman from the south,

539
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 2: from Virginia. But he wasn't a radical, you know. I

540
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: mean he would never go for something like Trump and

541
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: would be terribly imus this is my Trump. But uh yeah,

542
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 2: he was conservative. I think he was politically conservative, yes,

543
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: but not in that way that you hate people these days.

544
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: So the Dead have this burst of popularity in the seventies.

545
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: They ultimately have an MTV hit on earst in the eighties,

546
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: but there becomes this whole new wave of fans before

547
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: Jerry dies. Of course, we have the incident at the

548
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: gig where the stands, where people die, etc. But as

549
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: someone who has been there from day one, what do

550
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: you think about the latter day deadheads? Let me go

551
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: a little bit further. If I say anything about the

552
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: Grateful Dead, people correct me, even though I saw him

553
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy and they weren't even born yet.

554
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: Wells shown your age. I mean, what what is exactly?

555
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: What is the question there?

556
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: How do you feel do you feel that the latter

557
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: day that it's an affectation that the gen xers have

558
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: latched on to the grateful Dead? Let me go one

559
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: step further. Springsteen, who's in your book and very eloquent

560
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: in your book. You know I saw Springsteen. I bought

561
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: the first album, saw Im the bottom Line in seventy four,

562
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: the year before Bla to Run. What I always say

563
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: about Springsteen is I have no problem with Springsteen. I

564
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: just hate his fans. Same deal with the dead, their authorities.

565
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: You can't say anything negative, etc. Now the Grateful Day,

566
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: since you were around back then, they would play for

567
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: four hours. One hour would be unlistenable, one hour would

568
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: be great, and two hours would be so so. But

569
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: you can't even say that the dead have been iconized

570
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: at this point in time. So with your perspective, how

571
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: do you feel about the dead and the modern day

572
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: interpretation of them?

573
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I love the classical Dead, The Dead

574
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 2: before anybody, before they made their first record that was

575
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: The Dead. I grew up with herd gotten indelible and

576
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: was made indelible in my mind, whether Pig Pens blues

577
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 2: playing or Jerry's Garteit guars. Jerry's wonderful guitar playing, and

578
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: I liked where they evolved too, but they got to

579
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 2: a point for me that's hard to say. When I

580
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: got so involved with Rolling Stone Range in New York,

581
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 2: I kind of lost track for a while there. But

582
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: there's a period there that they just like I lost

583
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: Got two Jazzy too, prophevizational and I think that came

584
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 2: to go too many drugs, So I think I lost that.

585
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 2: Even to this day, I prefer the more structured songs

586
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: uh and uh, you know, where they're tight and they're

587
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: bluesy and you can really hear the guitar playing and

588
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 2: really act as a good rhythm section. I can kind

589
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: of get lost in China Cat Sunflower, you know, and

590
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: just I love to listen for Jerry's Garcian garci Is

591
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: guitar playing and it's really wonderful voice. But you know,

592
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: have a limited there's a limited range of dead stuff.

593
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 2: I like today the band of the last several years

594
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: with John Mayer and it I went. So it was terrific, actually,

595
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: and I think it's really shaped up. I think a

596
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 2: lot to do with John Mayer being there. I mean,

597
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: he's a wonderful interpreter, non imitator of Jerry, but I

598
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 2: think he bought some kind of missing structure and professionalism

599
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 2: to the band. You know that this set is organized

600
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: and tighter, and they're kind of thing more responsible to

601
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 2: the audience, and they still deliver the long jams and

602
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 2: they still deliver all that, and you know, but it's

603
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 2: the essence of it. I have no problem with the fans.

604
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 2: I mean I look at it, and you know, I

605
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 2: just see people, you know, when I see it, I

606
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 2: see people having a good time and trying to recreate

607
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: the old days or trying to live another live in

608
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: another era. And you know, whether they felt it deep

609
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: in their soul or where it came from, where his

610
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 2: style or whatever. I just think it's all sincere and

611
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 2: have a good time and looking strange and you know,

612
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: celebrating an era which was wonderful. I mean, it's great

613
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 2: to be a fan of something, you know. I mean,

614
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: I'm a more I'm a big fan, you know, of

615
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 2: lots of particularly Stones and Bruce and Bob and the

616
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 2: people I've had here in the Dead and you know,

617
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 2: it's deep into the trivia of it and the passionate

618
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 2: about what song is better? Alb and you liked one. Yeah,

619
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 2: it's fun. It's good to do that. And I think

620
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 2: with a group like that which has stands for such

621
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: positive stuff, you know, and with the music is so

622
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 2: interesting and fulfilling, I think it's great, you know. And

623
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: uh so I don't distain him and am I and

624
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 2: you know, half the time in their opinion, some random

625
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 2: fans opinion is as good as mine, you know. I mean,

626
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 2: Bruce plays for three and a half hours, the Dead

627
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 2: plays for three and a half hours. Stones just to

628
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 2: two and a half. I'm ripped off, you know. But they,

629
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: on the other had put fortunate to at fucking stage,

630
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: you know. Okay, just staying with John Mayer, Dead End

631
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: Company was tighter and more together than The Grateful Dead

632
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: with Jerry ever were, although if you say that, you

633
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: know you're a heretic. But let's switch to John Lennon.

634
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: You have an edited version of what came out as

635
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: a book as Lennon remembers. Now supposedly Lennon was pissed

636
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: that he gave you this interview that you turned into

637
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 2: a book that you sold as a book. Was that

638
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 2: your understanding and what was going on there? Well, the

639
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 2: book as it now is out is the full and

640
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 2: complete thing, and the interview that is in the book

641
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 2: that I'm just publishing. I cleaned up a lot for

642
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 2: as you mentioned before, for you know, verbal tics, and

643
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 2: I took a lot of stuff out there was just

644
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 2: not relevant, you know, some discussion of apple business. There's

645
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 2: things that are current then and names that don't mean anything.

646
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: They're just you know, focusing more stuff, and and uh,

647
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: the reaction, the reaction after the book came out was

648
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: pretty stunny. You know. It was like became worldwide headlines

649
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 2: because it was the first time that any Beatle talked

650
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 2: openly about what it was like to be in the Beatles,

651
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 2: who they were, what they did, let alone, you know,

652
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: who wrote what, and all the kind of musicianship questions.

653
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 2: But nobody had pierced or gone inside the Beatles. They

654
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 2: were sealed off. They were the most famous group in

655
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 2: the world. They had lovable mop tops kept behind glass barriers,

656
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: and all stuff. So this breaking of the silence and

657
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: this kind of and also saying that they were breaking up.

658
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 2: And in this interview he detailed the breakup and while

659
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 2: they wake up upset lots of people, and he was

660
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: harsh about McCartney. Any case. Reaction was amazing. I mean,

661
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 2: it was headlines around the world, every even in Tibet,

662
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: you know, the Laws of Laws of Daily covered in

663
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 2: the front page. You know, it was everywhere because the

664
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: Beatles were everywhere. They were the Beatles. So I think

665
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 2: it shocked John, and John did not want to see

666
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: it reissued as a book, and I did and uh,

667
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 2: because no more that was already published tonight, it was

668
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 2: my right to do so, uh, And I went ahead

669
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 2: and did it. And I regretted the bad feelings that caused,

670
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: but you know, because I didn't, I hated, you know,

671
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 2: doing that. I mean, John meant so much to me personally,

672
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 2: and he had done so much for Rolling Stone, including

673
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 2: giving us this interviews and earlier stuff that put Rolling

674
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: Stone on the map. You know, I don't. I don't

675
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 2: know how I would have done it today. You know,

676
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: today I might have done it differently. You know, today

677
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 2: I maybe didn't. I don't need the money, you know

678
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 2: I needed need it then or whatever it was. But

679
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: so anyway, customer. But we reconciled and we start corresponding again,

680
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 2: and Rolling Stones always backing him on everything he was doing,

681
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 2: and he was always writing us letters and uh, you

682
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 2: know in the end, Gabe, you know, I was giving

683
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 2: another huge interview view to you know, to Rolling Stone

684
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: at that time, and he was show me another cover.

685
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 2: So you know, I mean I we would become friends again,

686
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 2: you know.

687
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: So okay, so have you seen the extended let it

688
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: be get back on TV?

689
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 2: Know? I haven't.

690
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: Well, I would say, and as he had lenin Fiend,

691
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: he comes across as an asshole. Yeah, so what was

692
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: your experience one on one with him? Well, John was

693
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 1: a had a sharp tongue. It would be very tough,

694
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: you know, constantly going on. You know, I've talked all

695
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 1: the time and just sharp.

696
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 2: You know, one of those people's can't act just they're

697
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 2: with you know, they're saying something funny is more important

698
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: than any feelings or friendship. You know, if it's a

699
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 2: clever line, let's do it, you know. And if you're

700
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 2: not strong enough or tough enough to take it, too bad,

701
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 2: you know, and the when I saw that, when I

702
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 2: saw Well, I did see a little bit of that

703
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: movie though, but let it be uh well, the first

704
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: time I saw as I saw with John and his

705
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,479
Speaker 2: things after is Oh, it's just Paul's point of view.

706
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 2: This is an edit that came out years ago and

707
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,399
Speaker 2: I guess had a limited releasing with drawn or something

708
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: like that. He felt it was Paul doing his selections

709
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 2: of the stuff and the material. This point Paul's point

710
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 2: of view, and I was always kind of sympathetic to John,

711
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: and because I've been listening only to John about there

712
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 2: were conditions. But once you see that movie, see John

713
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: looks like he's trying to sabotage the whole session, difficult

714
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: to reign and difficult to pay attention, you know, always

715
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 2: making cutting remarks not available, slumped in the side of

716
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: the room, and Paul is desperately trying to organize this

717
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: session and make people show up on time and doing

718
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 2: all the things you do as a leader. It and

719
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 2: the movie is fantastic, but I saw a very I

720
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 2: saw a forty vinement selection of clips that were admittedly

721
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 2: assembled by Paul, and that he showed you a bunch

722
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 2: of friends and he had the director Peter Jackson put

723
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 2: this together as a private thing. And your first thing

724
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 2: is you told swept away by that history, by that

725
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 2: time that placed those songs down there, made the magic

726
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 2: of the entire thing is alive and full blast. Then

727
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 2: as you as you're a Beals fan like I am

728
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: was will always be, and you start parsing it for

729
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 2: the details of the relationship and things you're learning, and

730
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: things you thought this and all the little stuff that

731
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 2: goes along with it, and what every move of a

732
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 2: hander indicates or something like that. You see that you

733
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 2: know Paul, John was dealing. Paul was dealing John who

734
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 2: was trying to sabotage the session, you know, somewhat consciously.

735
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 2: Somewhat self consciously he'd had it. He wanted to make

736
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 2: it rough for Paul. You know, okay, Paul, if you

737
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 2: want to take this thing over, go right ahead, you

738
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: take it over. You run the sessions, you do, let's

739
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 2: do your material and you know, make me work, you know,

740
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: pay for it. You know. Meantime, I think he and

741
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,280
Speaker 2: the open corner taking junk, which doesn't help anything, and

742
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 2: Paul's trying to get it to going. Having said all that,

743
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,919
Speaker 2: at that album that came out of that, but It'd

744
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 2: be is their worst record for the obvious reasons. You

745
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 2: can see it in the studio. You know they're trying

746
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 2: to patch it together. Okay, that record.

747
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: Was legendarily remixed and added to by Phil Spector. Right,

748
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 1: forget Phil Spector's crimes and going to jail. Whatever, where

749
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: are you at with Phil Spector and his work with

750
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: the Beatles?

751
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 2: Okay, I think you're gonna want to critique that album

752
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 2: and I can. And people just said that's not such

753
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 2: a bout, And I say, okay, well, let's go through

754
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 2: the playlist. Can you tell me? Shall I bring it up?

755
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 2: Or is this pointless?

756
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: Well, let me be specific to you. The strings on

757
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: long and winding winding road, good or bad?

758
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 2: Soupy, soapy, you know, sentimental. Here's here's the songs. I'll

759
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 2: let it be. You tell me A few things is

760
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 2: a great be The Two of Us.

761
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: Two of Us is a good It's a minor George

762
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: Harrison song, but with the intro and the acoustic guitars,

763
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 1: I'm down with who two of Us?

764
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: Sweet? It's a sweet song. It's a long and minding road,

765
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: long winding road.

766
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: I have no time for.

767
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: Across the Universe, No time for one after nine oh

768
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: nine better, that's.

769
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: A song from before where they really were the Beatles.

770
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 2: It's okay, that's oh no, but it's not for you

771
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 2: Blue for.

772
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,919
Speaker 1: You Blue is once again. It was the flip side

773
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 1: I think of Long Winding Road. Whatever or get back.

774
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: It's got an interesting sound. It's a George Harrison album track.

775
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: Doesn't belong on that album.

776
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 2: It's my okay, get back. We all agree that's good,

777
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 2: right right? I mean mine? I mean mine.

778
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: No, it's strained.

779
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 2: Let it be. We can say that's a good one too.

780
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: Okay.

781
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 2: I don't love that feeling. I got a feeling I love.

782
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 2: I love.

783
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: It's a it's just you know, everybody had a good time.

784
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: Everybody let their hair down. When you get John going underneath,

785
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 1: I dig that.

786
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 3: You dig it. But it's a great song. But wait,

787
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 3: dig it dig a pony, Maggie. I agree with this

788
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 3: is this is my album.

789
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 2: Okay, let's go. It's got three songs that they're worth it.

790
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 2: You know, they got a lot of nice tunes, you know.

791
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 2: But that's anyway.

792
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: But the question, let's stay with Phil Spector, what's your

793
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: view of instant Karma.

794
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 2: I love that song. I mean it's powerful, but that's

795
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: John song. I mean, what they'll do it echo, But

796
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 2: the way.

797
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: The drums are the drums don't sound like anything on

798
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: a Beatles truck. I'm not talking about the ability, but

799
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: the way they sound. They like he's hitting cardboard. It's

800
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:00,280
Speaker 1: got a different feel.

801
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 2: Phil is a genius. He means a genius producer, and

802
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 2: he can strip it down. I mean, I like that.

803
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 2: But they did terrifically. You know what else did they

804
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 2: do together? Didn't Phil produce Imagine? It seemed to produce.

805
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, Phil worked with John. I always thought Imagine was

806
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: so obvious that I thought that John was laughing behind it,

807
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: although that doesn't seem to be the case. Sometimes when

808
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: something is too direct, it really kind of, you know,

809
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: rubs me the wrong way.

810
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's such a simple song, Imagine. It's

811
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 2: got such a simple track, and it's just a piano really,

812
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 2: and the notion that it's gonna be so spare and

813
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: Instacarma is very spare too. I mean, and if Phil

814
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: was a great producer turned into a crazy man, I'm,

815
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 2: you know, sorry to hear him go. I don't think

816
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: that he did pretty great work with the Beatles, you

817
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 2: know you Yeah, he's nuts. I enjoyed Phil sort of.

818
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: Okay, let's stay with the Beatles before we get back

819
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: to Phil. So if I snap my fingers and you

820
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: have to get either McCartney's seventies output or John's seventies output,

821
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:23,919
Speaker 1: what would you take if you could only pick one?

822
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 2: If I had to only, I mean of their solo

823
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 2: output post Beatles solo output, I'd be going for John.

824
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 2: I think Paul wrote wonderful songs and still does, and

825
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 2: they're pretty, but the major ones that live in history

826
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 2: are by John.

827
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: Okay, the plastic on would be in the first album.

828
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: You guys gave great reviews. It was not as commercially

829
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 1: successful as McCartney's first solo album, McCartney with Maybe I'm Amazed.

830
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: Of course, it had mother and it had other songs.

831
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: Do you think that and there was recently a re

832
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: release remix. Do you think that album was unfairly overlooked

833
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: or do you think that people really get that album today?

834
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 2: I think I don't think it was unfairly overlooked. It

835
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 2: was just not a commercial album in any sense, you know.

836
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,760
Speaker 2: I mean, there's one pretty song you know, maybe Boy

837
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:25,240
Speaker 2: was that it or so Paul's was the difference between

838
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,240
Speaker 2: the two them in that thing. Paul's was a commercial album,

839
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: is pretty you know, it's easy to take Paul's out.

840
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: John's album was much more interesting, much dealt with much

841
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 2: more complex subjects, much better writing, and frankly better melodies.

842
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 2: But it was a hard album to listen to. It

843
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,919
Speaker 2: was a confrontational album. You know. It wasn't about Moon

844
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: and June and Spoon and you know, maybe I'm amazed.

845
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 2: It was about mother, you did this to me, did

846
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: that to me? And the Beatles are over and just

847
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 2: everything was tough. You know, it came out of as

848
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 2: he said, I had a lot of pain. And it's

849
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 2: a great piece of work. That's the one that will

850
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: have a living history, no matter even if it wasn't

851
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 2: successful commercially.

852
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: When did you first hear the Beatles?

853
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 2: My first real awareness of the Beatles was seeing him

854
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 2: in Hard Day's Night. I totally missed the Sullivan Show

855
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 2: appearance and was told about it, but I wasn't on

856
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 2: my radar at that point. For whatever reason. I had

857
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: just gotten to college. When I saw Hard Day's Night.

858
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 2: I just that was a you know, real Road to

859
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 2: Damascus moment. That was a what do they call those things?

860
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 2: My age is getting it's a real revelation. It was

861
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 2: an epiphany. It was an epiphany for me.

862
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 1: Okay, for many boomers, and you're just a little bit

863
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: older than that. The Beatles were a line of demarcation.

864
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: You had Chuck Berry, you had Elvis in the fifties,

865
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: then we had the drek of Fabian slightly better with

866
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: Bobby Darren, and in the sixties we get the fourth

867
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 1: season and Beach Boys. Then the Beatles hits for you.

868
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: Is it just one long continuum or do you see

869
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: that as a vast turning point.

870
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 2: It's a vast turning point because it wasn't just the Beatles.

871
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 2: It was Beatles and Bob together and that changed it

872
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: all around, as well as the fact that but it

873
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 2: was also continuum. I mean, how can you say that

874
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 2: it was a continuum of Chuck to the Beach Boys

875
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 2: Elvis that all led to the Beatles. Limits It's a continuum, obviously,

876
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 2: but it was a huge pivot point. It wasn't an

877
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: abrupt start. It was just in the beginning of the

878
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 2: book The Matches, I wrote along essay about this and

879
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 2: about how the music of the fifties led into the

880
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 2: music of the sixties from a social and cultural point

881
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 2: of view, not from musical point of view. I don't

882
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,399
Speaker 2: get in there and think it's to say how Chuck

883
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 2: Berry's song became Stone Songs and the Beatles, and I

884
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: don't that's you know, kind of obvious, but that it

885
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 2: was continue these people set the stage, you know, I

886
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 2: mean Jeredy Lewis and Elvis, and it just led right

887
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 2: to the Beatles, you know.

888
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: Okay, So if you speak with people today, and I do,

889
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: many people say, oh, it's the same as it ever was,

890
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: or to quote you know, Paul Simon or paraphrase, every

891
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: generation puts an act on the pop chart. What do

892
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: you think about music's place and impact in society compared

893
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: to the sixties in the early seventies.

894
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 2: We have to be a little more specificed about that,

895
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 2: but I think it all this particular music rock and

896
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 2: roll as a continuum from its origins in the fifties,

897
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: go back even from its origins as black music, but

898
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 2: from its origins is teeny pretained teen white music in

899
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 2: the fifties too. To days has this in every step

900
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: of the way, has had this enormous impact on the

901
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 2: people who grew up with it, and the people do

902
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 2: it now. But the people grow it stood for liberation,

903
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 2: to for liberation and sexuality. It's for literation, styles and

904
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 2: fashion and thinking. When you get to the college years

905
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 2: in the early sixties and the mid sixties and the

906
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 2: Baby Boom coincide. The Baby Boom and its knowledge of

907
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 2: civil rights and awareness with all the injustice there and

908
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 2: the assassination of Kennedy and going to worm, it coincides

909
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: neatly with this music. Now that they've all their lives

910
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 2: have loved and led and spoken to him now really

911
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 2: speaks from in a big, broader, deeper sense. And these people,

912
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,359
Speaker 2: the Beats and Bob Millen coming along and articulate that.

913
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 2: Yet it continues as this musical form, and I think

914
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 2: it becomes just more and more important and more and

915
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 2: more profound, more moving, more powerful as you go on

916
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 2: and on, as the group's more popular and widespread, and

917
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 2: as technology comes with it, the technology of the long

918
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 2: playing record, that then the technology of the single, than

919
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: then the technology of the tape and the tape deck,

920
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 2: and now the a tract tape and the cassette and

921
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 2: all of a sudden the CD, and as we keep

922
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 2: on going, the music becomes bigger and more popular and

923
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 2: more widespread than ever. And today you can hear any

924
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 2: song ever written any place around the world that you

925
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 2: are at anytime free. So I mean, I think the impact,

926
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 2: the influence of the music is so broad and the

927
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 2: content was so important and real in people's lives, people's

928
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 2: personal lives emotionalized of how do I love two people ones?

929
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 2: Or how do I treat somebody I've wronged? Or you know,

930
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 2: just the deep or the personal moral level, plus the

931
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 2: political level, where do I Where do I stand? Where

932
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 2: I do in such an unjust as side that's been

933
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 2: so adjusted to its black population, or these unjust wars,

934
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 2: you know, and where we're destroying the plant. I mean,

935
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 2: So this music has spoken to it all all that

936
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 2: and for a generation and to the issue. And I

937
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: think two more than just a generation. And I think

938
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 2: it's it's influenced that generation, moved that generation and guided

939
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 2: that generation. And that has been the whole premise of

940
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,840
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone, one of the whole one of the premises,

941
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 2: the key premises of Rolling Stone from the beginning that

942
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 2: these people and these people have interviewed in the book

943
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: that I call the masters, you know, were the poets,

944
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 2: were the truth tellers of you know, the gatekeepers of truth,

945
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 2: is what I call them. You know, any people have

946
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 2: come out and tell the truth about society, you know,

947
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 2: which you could learn more about what was going on

948
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 2: in America from Bob Dylan or The Grateful Dead then

949
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 2: and today from Bruce then you learn from any of

950
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 2: the poets, from any of the politicians or the preachers,

951
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 2: you know, or the the entertainers. You know, that truth

952
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 2: was coming out of these mouths. So now these eyes,

953
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 2: Is rock dead today? No, not at all. I mean again,

954
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 2: it depends how you want to define rock. Are you

955
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 2: talking about rock in the fifties, you're talking rock in

956
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 2: a broader sense? Is the musical I don't know. I

957
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 2: still love it. I'm still totally taken by it. I

958
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,720
Speaker 2: know that thousands of my children and hundreds and thousands

959
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 2: of other people listen to it and love it because

960
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 2: they can hear it all the time. You have to

961
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: pay for it. So the Beals is still probably the

962
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 2: most popular group in the world, you know, of all

963
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 2: the things, and is its forefront of mine as it

964
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 2: was then. Now when we have these pop groups, in

965
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 2: the rap groups Domini and Charles all the place, which

966
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,280
Speaker 2: we did again earlier on. You know, we had Fabian

967
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 2: and as you were talking about earlier, we had all

968
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 2: the teen groups. So I don't I don't think so.

969
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 2: I don't think music as a form is dead or

970
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 2: less influential in the lives of people who love it.

971
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 2: I think they' ill lots and lots of messages and

972
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 2: lots and lots of concern it. I mean it's a

973
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 2: passionate music. Music in and of itself, all the arts

974
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 2: is the most passionate and soulful because it's not articulable

975
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 2: and something you feel. Yeah, it's not something you visualize

976
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 2: and see a painting. It's not something you read. You know,

977
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 2: you feel that stuff and has that.

978
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 1: Okay, In the sixties, seventies and even eighties, it was

979
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 1: anathema to sell out. Now everybody says credibility is not

980
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 1: an issue. Everybody accepts that everybody sells out. Where are

981
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 1: you on that?

982
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know again what you mean by selling out?

983
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 2: Do you mean accepting Curs's commercial sponsorship for scour or

984
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 2: selling your song for a car commercial.

985
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:50,879
Speaker 1: Sell your car for a car commercial? Brand extension into clothing, perfume, etc.

986
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 2: I to me, it has not affected the quality of music,

987
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:02,879
Speaker 2: what they've written, or my belief in the music. And

988
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 2: when I see Dylan doing a Jo Van commercial, you know,

989
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 2: or I think when I.

990
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: See the Stone started with the jove on for that

991
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:13,359
Speaker 1: too was their first one.

992
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 2: But let's start. Let's go back to what I consider

993
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 2: the beginning of it in our era, which is the

994
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 2: Jefferson Airplane lent their music in nineteen sixty seven sixty

995
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 2: eight to a commercial for white levis. Now is that

996
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 2: selling out? Well, if we go.

997
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: Back into history and it's all on YouTube, most of

998
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 1: these acts on the way Up did commercials for soft drinks,

999
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: et cetera. It was only when they reached ubiquity that

1000
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:41,280
Speaker 1: they said.

1001
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 2: No, well I don't like who. I don't know, I

1002
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 2: don't I'm taking the who did commercials?

1003
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: Everybody did commercials on the way up.

1004
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 2: I don't think that who. They had one commercial, I

1005
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 2: think that was it. But the reason I used to

1006
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 2: watch Jeffers start Airplane and as a examples that that

1007
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 2: is the very culture which started this whole bitch about

1008
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 2: selling out and making it a nathma and making it

1009
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 2: wrong thing to do and lack of conscience and good

1010
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 2: vibes and you're now a hippie capitalist and you don't

1011
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 2: subscribe to the new system of love is everywhere yet

1012
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 2: And there was some bitching, not a lot, but that's

1013
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 2: where the bitching started. And then bitching started right there

1014
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 2: and over that particular use of that particular song. I

1015
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 2: think it might have been White Rabbit. Now, I just asked,

1016
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 2: looking back at it, I said, oh, well, yes, of

1017
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 2: course they did accept money from a corporation for the

1018
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 2: use of their you know, this beautiful music that it

1019
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 2: is supposed to be their treasure and their special thing.

1020
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 2: But what what did what did they harm? Did it cause?

1021
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 2: What was the harmit did then or now? I mean,

1022
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 2: you heard the music, you thought about why the VI's

1023
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't that they weren't selling cigarettes. They

1024
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:58,919
Speaker 2: weren't telling you know, bad you know, uh cushion, bad

1025
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 2: safety cush for cars, I mean, and so so the

1026
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 2: Stones were letting their name to a perfume or Bob

1027
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 2: Dylan is selling It was just I don't I mean,

1028
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 2: in the end, I don't mind it at all, you know,

1029
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 2: And I see the people I do it. These are

1030
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 2: among the people who are have got the most integrity

1031
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 2: of everybody I know, whether it's Bruce or Bob or

1032
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 2: Neil Young, and they all do have their different things,

1033
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: you know. You know Bob never did it. You know

1034
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 2: you two does it with with iPhones or iTunes, which

1035
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 2: is not a bad product at all, but you know

1036
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 2: that's their attitude towards it. And they're relentlessly commercial bottom

1037
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 2: and see a bigger audience coming from it, and see

1038
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 2: most and all this sudden. If it doesn't bother them,

1039
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 2: frankly doesn't bother me. I'm quite used to it. I

1040
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 2: think it's harmless.

1041
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 1: Okay, let's switch gears to Towns and who opens the book.

1042
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: You interview them just before Tommy? Are you a Tommy

1043
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: guy or a quadrophenia guy?

1044
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 2: I have not thought in those terms. I'm not that

1045
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 2: passionate on it.

1046
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: Okay, then what was your motivation for opening the book

1047
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: with Townsend?

1048
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 2: He was the first real interview that I did, and

1049
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 2: I thought, and I mentioned before I did Hendrix, and

1050
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 2: that I mentioned I didn't air clapped into early on,

1051
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 2: before Rolling Still started. This is the first attempt to

1052
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 2: do a kind of deep dive. A lot of research

1053
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 2: interview with the Rocks. You know that it was the

1054
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: first one there, and it was nineteen sixty eight, and

1055
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 2: it was so clearly of its time and era, the

1056
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 2: way we were talking, what we were talking about, the passion,

1057
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 2: the confidence, you know, a stuff. And I published a

1058
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 2: whole book in chronological order, so it gives you a

1059
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 2: sense of the growth of rock and roll and the

1060
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 2: growth of the time period, the history of my own

1061
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 2: history and what I was looking for and how we

1062
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 2: all do and grow up. And really the epilogue is

1063
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 2: Dinner with Bruce Springsteen, which I did just this year,

1064
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 2: this last summer, this summer because I wouldn't put out

1065
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 2: a book called The Masters without brucing it. And he

1066
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 2: just happened to be a guy who I never got

1067
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 2: around the interviewing while I was doing it, while I

1068
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 2: was running Rolling Stone. I mean, the last one I did,

1069
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 2: it was like six or seven years ago, was Bono

1070
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 2: and uh by now and I just so it was

1071
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 2: nice to sit down Bruce's house and let's look back

1072
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 2: on all this. Now, remember when we were young and

1073
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 2: we did that, what do we think today? So it

1074
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 2: was the reason I put Pete first was to suggest

1075
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 2: a kind of a history, a kind of historical pursessive

1076
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 2: and that you could read this book also is a history.

1077
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: Okay, this is audio only, but in video on zoom,

1078
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: I can see you. You look young for your age,

1079
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: but you're not taking any steps to forestall the physical

1080
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 1: image of your body, whereas many of these acts they

1081
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: play the people who are in their seventies, yet they

1082
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 1: have plastic surgery and hair pieces. What do you think

1083
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 1: about these aging rock acts? Do you lament the fact

1084
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 1: that they haven't gotten older and instead of singing about

1085
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 1: Moon and June, they haven't sung about divorce and other

1086
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: issues that affect people who are older.

1087
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think that's wholly true. First off, of

1088
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 2: the people we're talking about here the message, I'm just

1089
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 2: trying to think who might have had plasic. First off,

1090
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 2: they're all thin as could be to begin with, Yeah,

1091
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 2: except for Bond.

1092
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: Well, you know when I say Mick Jagger rehearsing for

1093
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: a tour in a ballet studio dancing, that's a turn

1094
01:01:58,320 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 1: off for me.

1095
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 2: It is I look at it as my age. I think,

1096
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 2: my god, this guy is several years older than me

1097
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 2: and amazing shape. And same with Bruce. I mean younger

1098
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 2: than me. But these guys are an amazing shape because

1099
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 2: that's their profession. They I don't have to go up

1100
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 2: on the stage and dance around for two and a

1101
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 2: half hours. I don't have to look sexy and look

1102
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 2: good and stay in that kind of shape to do that.

1103
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 2: These guys do. That's their job, so I don't grudge

1104
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 2: any of it. And Mick is not shot and plastic surgery.

1105
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 2: Mick has not done plastic surgery. They take one look

1106
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 2: at Mick. That's not a plastic surgery type person. And

1107
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 2: I don't know anybody here I think that has done plastics.

1108
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 2: This has done plastic surgery. You know they live well.

1109
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 1: Well, I know things that I'd rather not reveal. But

1110
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 1: my point is that we have aged, and some of

1111
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 1: these acts, their major impact upon society in terms of

1112
01:02:56,080 --> 01:03:00,400
Speaker 1: new material is in the past, and therefore one go

1113
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 1: and have nostalgia. But aren't some of these acts frozen

1114
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: in the ember? They're just playing the same songs. Let

1115
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 1: me go one step further. Ruce Springsteen makes two solo albums. Okay,

1116
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: you've been touching Lucky Town. The audience says, you can't

1117
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: leave the EA Street behind Eastream being behind. Then he

1118
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 1: reunites with the Eastreet Band. For me, that is giving

1119
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: the audience what they want. One of the great things

1120
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: about Dylan. I don't want to see him anymore. I've

1121
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: been to the never ending tour, but he's making it interesting.

1122
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: He's still pushing the envelope. But he's one of the

1123
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 1: very few.

1124
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 2: All right, let's first off, that's a lot of stuff

1125
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 2: I have to deal with you, okay. And first off,

1126
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 2: plastic surgery and looking at your age. I would submit

1127
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 2: that Bob Dylan and Mick Jagger all look more than

1128
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 2: their age. They look look their age. I haven't seen

1129
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 2: Pete Laley, but I don't think he's gone for anything

1130
01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 2: radical anything. Secondly, but the bigger point is responding to

1131
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 2: your audience in and of itself bad. Listen to the audience,

1132
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 2: you know, listen from.

1133
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 1: From subterranean home, pick blues you know, uh, don't follow leaders,

1134
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 1: watch the parking meters.

1135
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 2: Great.

1136
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: Are you supposed to be independent?

1137
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 2: What do you mean? He is independent? He writes whatever

1138
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 2: he wants. He's not paying attention to his audience right now.

1139
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 1: He's writing, I say, Dylan is a beacon. I'm talking

1140
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 1: about these other racks, giving the audience what they want.

1141
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 2: All right, so we're talking about let's talk about who

1142
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 2: do you want to have Bruce? You mentioned Bruce's talk

1143
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 2: about Jakay, Okay, okay, let's talk about Mick. Mick is

1144
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 2: every each one of them is different. There's no rule

1145
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 2: applies them all. Mick has got a new record coming out.

1146
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 2: He's got some really great stuff on it. Okay, He's

1147
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 2: not had plastic surgery. He stays in shape. He is

1148
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 2: His whole thing is has to do with his audience.

1149
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 2: It's from the beginning of time to now. You know.

1150
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 2: He gets out there and he's a performer and he behaves, behaves,

1151
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 2: he creates the rules for performing and the relationship with

1152
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 2: the audience. That's his thing, you know. So he's still

1153
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 2: doing it and he deserves praise for being able to

1154
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 2: sing fucking jumping Jack Flash is good today as then,

1155
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 2: and also his new records and blowing it away. What

1156
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 2: is it? That's his job, the audience. He's not being

1157
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 2: told to do by anything. That's what he can do,

1158
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 2: and he enjoys doing. He loves getting out there. We're playing.

1159
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: Did you watch the UH press conference with Jimmy Fallon?

1160
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 2: I saw a business diough it.

1161
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:45,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, didn't it look sad to eighty year old

1162
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 1: guys out peddling their music with the jokester? These were

1163
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 1: this was a this was a band that was dangerous

1164
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 1: cutting edge at one point.

1165
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 2: Excuse me, Well, I don't know how old you are,

1166
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 2: but I'm seven. Okay. They were in their twenties, sixtyears

1167
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 2: years long on sixty years later, on sixty years. They

1168
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 2: may be less cutting edge, they may be less good looking,

1169
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 2: they may be doing not but they're still there. They're

1170
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 2: still performing in as pressively ever. They're still loving rock

1171
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 2: and roll. They're still loving their life and then bringing

1172
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 2: joy to all of ours. Hey six years wait, wait, wait,

1173
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 2: you're a guy.

1174
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: You're a guy who started Rolling Stone the music was

1175
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 1: religious sixty actively, and now you're basically being long in

1176
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 1: the tooth. Well, these off the cockers they're out there

1177
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 1: doing I got to give them some credit.

1178
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 2: No, I'm doing more than that. They're doing some of

1179
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 2: their best work. They're still performing nearly at the top,

1180
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 2: nearly at the top of their game. Wait, we're still

1181
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,919
Speaker 2: mark let me finish. They're still doing work that's vile,

1182
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 2: that's pertinent to today. The things that are singing about

1183
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 2: Ian Bruce is singing about this last album. He's singing

1184
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 2: about death, and he's dealing with the concerns of being

1185
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 2: his age and with death and going old and looking

1186
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 2: back and the stulves. I mean, he's he's vitally involved

1187
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 2: in the issues that are relevant to him and may

1188
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 2: not be irrelevant and are going to be irrelevant to

1189
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 2: his audience. I mean, I think you're I understand where

1190
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 2: you're coming from. I've heard this point of view often. Yes,

1191
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 2: we are getting old, b we look old. Yeah, see

1192
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 2: we walk old, but we're still alive and we're still kicking,

1193
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:30,919
Speaker 2: and we're still kicking his shit out of everybody else.

1194
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:35,640
Speaker 1: Well, one of the think one of the time, one

1195
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:39,920
Speaker 1: of the things you popularize via your serialization of what

1196
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 1: became the right stuff was the concept of pushing the envelope,

1197
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 1: Chuck Yeger pushing the envelope, and that's what this music did.

1198
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 1: If you wanted to know what was going on, you

1199
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 1: listen to a record. I don't think that's the case anymore,

1200
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 1: even in the hip hop. And therefore, I mean it's

1201
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 1: if I watch streaming television, okay, and I watched some

1202
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 1: of the Morgan Okay, Danish show on Netflix. I got

1203
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 1: an impact in it and a feeling that I don't

1204
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 1: get from most of the music. Doesn't mean there aren't

1205
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:18,760
Speaker 1: great records.

1206
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 2: Which the music, which music. The music we're talking about

1207
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:23,800
Speaker 2: the masters of the music today that's coming out by

1208
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 2: currently hot selling rocket records.

1209
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 1: Currently talking about We're not talking about classic records. So

1210
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: you're talking about new music. Okay, good, keep going, all right,

1211
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,640
Speaker 1: you want my response to that? Yes, basically, first and

1212
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: first off, you're fucking seventy years old, and this is

1213
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 1: the music being made by twenty and thirty year old,

1214
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 1: so of course it won't it's not going to impact you.

1215
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 1: You don't look at these people as being your contemporary,

1216
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,640
Speaker 1: you know the real their concerns are much groomer than

1217
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 1: yours ours as seventy. That's one number one, Okay, Number

1218
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:58,760
Speaker 1: two is, boy, have the times changed? And I'll tell

1219
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 1: you when this music came out, when the stones and

1220
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 1: stuff that moved us that I'm celebrating here that I

1221
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: think is still so great. Look at the media landscape.

1222
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 1: Then there are three networks. You know today there was

1223
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 1: no digital Today everything in the world is available instantly

1224
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 1: by camera, by the social media, by Google. By it,

1225
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 1: I mean there's no place in the world where something

1226
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 1: has not already been articulated. And now, all of a sudden,

1227
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 1: because of this new freedom of media, the media has

1228
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: it's able to deal with the most avant garde issues,

1229
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:34,559
Speaker 1: the most sensitive topics, the most extreme stuff, the weirdest stuff,

1230
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 1: whereas in back in the day you weren't allowed to

1231
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: do that, but now it's everywhere. So it makes the

1232
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 1: music that makes the music in this environment less vital

1233
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 1: and important impactful that it wasn't in an environment fifty

1234
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:50,920
Speaker 1: years ago when you couldn't hear a lot of the

1235
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:54,479
Speaker 1: stuff expressed on TV or newspapers or magazines, when Rolling

1236
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 1: Stone didn't exist, when the network, when the Internet didn't exist,

1237
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: where when CDs and exists. So it's in a much

1238
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,560
Speaker 1: different context, and you're a much different audience. You're not

1239
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 1: the audience for today's music. So I mean it makes sense.

1240
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 2: I say, you know, I say you should sit back

1241
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:14,559
Speaker 2: and enjoy and celebrate how great this music wasn't how

1242
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 2: lucky you were and I was to be alive in

1243
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 2: a period in the sixties and seventies, some of the

1244
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 2: eighties where all these brilliant fricking musicians and writers and

1245
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 2: singers were all together about the same time, creating it

1246
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 2: that same period, listening to each other, impacting each other,

1247
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,760
Speaker 2: influencing each other, driving each other along, you know, by

1248
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 2: by competition or by inspiration. And what a rare period

1249
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 2: this was in not just American history and musical history

1250
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 2: that just love little genius, but in world history. You

1251
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 2: know where we were present during one of the great

1252
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 2: renaissances of our times and of world times. And it's

1253
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 2: not something you see very often. Mean, Uh, it's easily

1254
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 2: fully comparable to what we've seen to Paris in the

1255
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:09,760
Speaker 2: twenties when there are all these painters, matists, cause, etc.

1256
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 2: When hemy Me and Fitstcher were there. But even and

1257
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 2: as good as all they were, and this may sound

1258
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 2: a extreme claim, they're change. The change they brought to art,

1259
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 2: the revivocation of art, bringing along modern art were you know,

1260
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 2: all art and writing by that time it become classical

1261
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:28,960
Speaker 2: and stale and borant. But this was also a company.

1262
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 2: What we did does not only revived, but it came

1263
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 2: along a time of great political, social, technological change in

1264
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 2: the world. And this is this era was when the

1265
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:43,240
Speaker 2: world is transferred from that old world pre nuclear world

1266
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 2: to this new world of destruction, of internet, of an

1267
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 2: unfathomable number of things that have changed. The world has

1268
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 2: more than shrunk. It's all a different place. It's not

1269
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 2: a bunch of isolated different countries around the world after

1270
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 2: World War Two. It's all We're now so unified as ever.

1271
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 2: And it's comparable of the change in the world. It

1272
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:05,720
Speaker 2: took place, you know, in Greece, you know, or in

1273
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 2: Italy and Venice in this in the classical era of

1274
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 2: that era, or during Elizabeth Elizabethan England when they came

1275
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:17,920
Speaker 2: out of these countries were hugely powerful within the world. Venice, Greece,

1276
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 2: you know which they were, and England they ran the world.

1277
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:23,360
Speaker 2: They were the richest countries in the world. They educated populace,

1278
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 2: they had this sense of mastering, achievement and domination, and

1279
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 2: they weren't charge themsel a bunch of stuff is more

1280
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 2: and more complicated to tease out. But that's what this

1281
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 2: period I think was about, you know, And and I

1282
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:42,560
Speaker 2: think that's what this work stands for. You know. It

1283
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:46,680
Speaker 2: had that relationship to its times, you know. And it

1284
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 2: wasn't painting, it wasn't writing. It certainly took advantage of

1285
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 2: the technology of the times. This is based on the

1286
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 2: technology of the times, both the reproducing spread it, the

1287
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 2: way that the printed word at one time reproducing spread

1288
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 2: that and so forth. So I mean, that's the long view,

1289
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:05,680
Speaker 2: and we're just older now, you know.

1290
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 1: No, I think that's very well articulated, that we don't

1291
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:11,480
Speaker 1: live in a monoculture. And you mentioned the word renaissance,

1292
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 1: which I wholly agree with. There was a Renaissance hundreds

1293
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 1: of years ago. People have painted and sculpted since then,

1294
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 1: but there's only one renaissance, right, just going through the decades. Though,

1295
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: to what degree do you believe our change in culture

1296
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:35,559
Speaker 1: and the attendant income inequality was driven by Reagan, who's

1297
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 1: been canonized by the right, And to what degree has

1298
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 1: that changed our society and left us where we are now?

1299
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:47,759
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think all these changes are afoot

1300
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:52,439
Speaker 2: despite without Reagan. I mean, this is all happened without him.

1301
01:13:56,040 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 2: He's almost irrelevant to them. But Reagan was it, you know,

1302
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:09,599
Speaker 2: a gentle, easy to swallow salesman of a really increasingly

1303
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 2: putrid influence on society, most particularly in what he did

1304
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 2: with income taxes and taxes where the extreme wealth divide

1305
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 2: which plagues us now started under him, under reduction of

1306
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 2: gutting of the union starting under him. And uh, the

1307
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:36,599
Speaker 2: empowering of the religious right started under him from modern times.

1308
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 2: And so he made it all seem smooth and wonderful.

1309
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 2: But I don't view him as a hero or a

1310
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 2: very good president or you know, but a funny, charming guy. Uh.

1311
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 2: But all these things, I mean, I think, all the

1312
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 2: worse stuff in contemporaries. It's not that it hasn't happened before.

1313
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,679
Speaker 2: You know, this kind of his warmart, the religious right

1314
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:00,200
Speaker 2: or income disparags haven't happened before in history. They've all

1315
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 2: of this. Truth've had many religious awakenings, We've had many

1316
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:07,599
Speaker 2: right wing crusades, We've had many cuses berries wealth before

1317
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 2: in modern times. Reagan was the first instrument of it,

1318
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 2: and it just continued under you know, Bush senior, Bush

1319
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 2: junior and Trump. Of them, all the worst has been

1320
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 2: was Bush junior, George W. Bush. Uh. So I mean,

1321
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 2: I I the Republican has been terrible. And I think, yes,

1322
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 2: it's been a fight against the Republican ideology.

1323
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: So you believe it's somewhat secular that these things wouldn't

1324
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 1: have happened without Reagan? What was in the culture that

1325
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:39,559
Speaker 1: was driving these things?

1326
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:43,639
Speaker 2: Reagan that the regiaction is that the history of America.

1327
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 2: I mean, America has been a weird place. We start

1328
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 2: off burning witches, we start off flee you know, kind

1329
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 2: is it pure in society? You know, there's very harsh

1330
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,719
Speaker 2: religious strictures in the society. We say we're a society

1331
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:01,720
Speaker 2: free of religion, but we had the puritanical stuff, and

1332
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:04,360
Speaker 2: so it's just been we were a slave society. We

1333
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 2: I mean, how do you how do you account for

1334
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 2: putting men in chains and whipping them in the way

1335
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 2: they were treated. We fought a fucking warm which because

1336
01:16:12,360 --> 01:16:14,679
Speaker 2: a couple of nine people died, I think the worst

1337
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 2: over the issue of slavery. Well, how you treat your

1338
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:20,640
Speaker 2: fellow man? That war's never been resolved, you know, So,

1339
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 2: I mean it's been lurking under the American surface as

1340
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 2: part of the modern dilim for years. We've created great

1341
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:32,960
Speaker 2: good good in the world and great evil. And I

1342
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 2: think that this kind of empowered this generation of America

1343
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:38,560
Speaker 2: has been called on to kind of look back and

1344
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:40,880
Speaker 2: sit back on that because we can't go on any longer.

1345
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:42,760
Speaker 2: As we've been going on. If we go on any

1346
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:46,920
Speaker 2: longer this, the planet's over, you know, by environmental destruction

1347
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:51,599
Speaker 2: and nuclear war. You know. So we need a change

1348
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 2: in consciousness, you know, not we have to do this thing,

1349
01:16:56,600 --> 01:17:00,080
Speaker 2: loved one another. We have to all these bromides that

1350
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,080
Speaker 2: we've heard in Wrock and all they're true, you know,

1351
01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 2: and we're where to point. If you don't do that,

1352
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 2: you know, we're going to We're gonna some awful things

1353
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 2: are going to happen. But I'm wondering whether that was

1354
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:10,880
Speaker 2: the question or not.

1355
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:13,120
Speaker 1: Well, no, you we answered, But let me let me

1356
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 1: just go to the present. So in your crystal ball,

1357
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 1: what happens in the future.

1358
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:22,240
Speaker 2: Jeez, I don't know, could go to me, It could

1359
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:27,839
Speaker 2: go either way, you know. I mean, there's great progress

1360
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:31,120
Speaker 2: are being made. We have great knowledge, great ability. Everybody

1361
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 2: knows what the problems are, you know, we know essentially

1362
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:38,200
Speaker 2: how to technically solve all these things, what should be done,

1363
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 2: what should be right. But they'll take you know, it's

1364
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 2: a change in political will and consciousness and right and wrong.

1365
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:46,360
Speaker 2: I think al Gore expresses, really, once we see the

1366
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:50,680
Speaker 2: environmental question and all these questions as issues of right

1367
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:56,800
Speaker 2: or wrong, then We're going to solve them because we'll

1368
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:58,560
Speaker 2: know what's right to do, we'll know what's wrong to do,

1369
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 2: and so patently clear what's right and what's wrong. And

1370
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 2: if people just get on the side doing the right thing,

1371
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, he keeps saying political will is

1372
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:12,000
Speaker 2: renewable resource. I hope so. But you've got powerful But

1373
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:14,200
Speaker 2: on the other hands, Bob Filne says to me, and

1374
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:17,839
Speaker 2: the last time, he's just human nature hasn't changed fundamentally

1375
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:21,840
Speaker 2: in three thousand years. You know, it's still greed power.

1376
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:24,840
Speaker 2: You know, the dim side is greed driven, is power driven?

1377
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:27,799
Speaker 2: How do we break that cycle? These are powerful interests

1378
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 2: and powerful wealthy people and corporations were up against you know,

1379
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 2: and their hands. They're deeply involved in social structures. Now

1380
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 2: things run. I mean, it's not just the greed of

1381
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:41,679
Speaker 2: the oil business, but it's greed of all the people

1382
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 2: who underline it first, people who work there, let alone

1383
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 2: people at Morgan Stanley who finance it. You know, the

1384
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:50,240
Speaker 2: Bank of America pay for and loan them billions of

1385
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 2: dollars every year to keep fun. So that's hard to know,

1386
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,840
Speaker 2: but I think that in the end you have to

1387
01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 2: live with hope and optimism, and you have to take

1388
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 2: the hopeful approach. I don't think you have any choice

1389
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:07,800
Speaker 2: but to do that, otherwise it's impossible to live.

1390
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 1: Okay, you're a student of the game. We remember the

1391
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:14,200
Speaker 1: sixties when you didn't want to have long here south

1392
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 1: of the Mason Dixon Line, red Knicks. Whatever's going on

1393
01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 1: is much further to the extreme. Now, what accounts for

1394
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:29,360
Speaker 1: the hardcore belief in Trump, irrelevant of the indictments and

1395
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:30,600
Speaker 1: other accusations.

1396
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 2: Well, I mean two things. Once again, I would bring

1397
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:38,920
Speaker 2: you back to American history and this kind of these

1398
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:41,719
Speaker 2: kind of people have been a constant part of American history.

1399
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,599
Speaker 2: I've just guessed it's been thirty percent of American history

1400
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:47,640
Speaker 2: at the beginning. Remember again, we fought the Civil War.

1401
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 2: We had hundreds of thousands of you know, millions of

1402
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:54,640
Speaker 2: people public fighting for slavery, like sacrificing our lives for slavery,

1403
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:58,840
Speaker 2: you know. And then we had Father Coughlin and the

1404
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:01,000
Speaker 2: pro Nazi movement keep America out of the war. We

1405
01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:04,479
Speaker 2: have McCarthyism, so there's a and the religious. We've always

1406
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:07,799
Speaker 2: had this strain in American, in American culture. So obviously

1407
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:11,040
Speaker 2: I think Trump is tapped into that strain. It's a

1408
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:16,360
Speaker 2: big strain and it uh, it's gonna be loyal to anybody.

1409
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 2: You know, it's loyal to me. And you cannot going

1410
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 2: to change your minds. You know, there's no man of logic,

1411
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 2: no man of grand jury, indictment. It's nothing that's going

1412
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:26,559
Speaker 2: to change their mind I mean not even as sinning

1413
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:30,600
Speaker 2: bastard Trump and his five wives and you know, on

1414
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 2: and on whatever, even that doesn't turn these people off.

1415
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:38,559
Speaker 2: Who are the fundamental any abortion religious people, God fearing

1416
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:42,559
Speaker 2: you know, these are the least Christian people in the world.

1417
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:46,880
Speaker 2: You know, Trump's supporters, they're the most negative. They're they're

1418
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 2: demeaning and of poor people. They're racial. I mean, let

1419
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:55,639
Speaker 2: me back off this. The other thing is that we've

1420
01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 2: got this economic disparity going on, this huge thing where

1421
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 2: people are making you know, thirty thirty forty billion dollars,

1422
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:04,599
Speaker 2: I mean, excuse me, three hundred million dollars a year.

1423
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:08,080
Speaker 2: They're worth billions of dollars. The wealth is spread around

1424
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 2: in the country is the wealth. The wealth. Wealth is

1425
01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 2: big and it's enormous and people, most people have been

1426
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 2: cut out of the system. It's they don't live unions anymore.

1427
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:20,280
Speaker 2: They don't have highways ers, they don't have two cars

1428
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:22,880
Speaker 2: in their garage, intelligence and get their summer vacation. So

1429
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:27,240
Speaker 2: people are feeling deprived of the system, you know, they

1430
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:29,640
Speaker 2: take it that they haven't received the benefit system. Even

1431
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:31,639
Speaker 2: then they work their ass off. And it's been done

1432
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:34,479
Speaker 2: historically in the last thirty forty fifth years by Democrats

1433
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 2: as well as Republicans, less so by the Democrats, more

1434
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:41,960
Speaker 2: so by the Republicans. But today it's stunning. The Democrats

1435
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,759
Speaker 2: are saying, let's lower debt, drug prices, let's give equitable

1436
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:47,439
Speaker 2: medical care, and the Republics are tooth and nail against

1437
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:51,839
Speaker 2: lowering dut prices. Let the farmer companies make billions of profits.

1438
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 2: So they feel justly deprived, and so they're going to

1439
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:59,639
Speaker 2: go with the burst presertion like Trump, who have however,

1440
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 2: in however inaccurately, he portrays it none less channels the

1441
01:22:04,479 --> 01:22:07,599
Speaker 2: frustration of the swamp, even though he's part of the swamp.

1442
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:10,000
Speaker 2: These people are so angry, they're going to believe that

1443
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:11,599
Speaker 2: because they don't look beyond that. They want to blame.

1444
01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:14,720
Speaker 2: So I'm getting fucked over by the establishment, you know,

1445
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:17,400
Speaker 2: by those people, and Trump says, I'm going to save you,

1446
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:20,519
Speaker 2: and that's it, and there's reason for it for him

1447
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:21,560
Speaker 2: them to think that.

1448
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: Just going to the opposite. For twenty odd years, we've

1449
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:30,480
Speaker 1: had Fox News, We've had this incredible hammering of Democrats

1450
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:33,800
Speaker 1: in the left. We have the DNC operating on the

1451
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 1: traditional principles nomine Hillary Clinton doesn't win. We have the

1452
01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:43,599
Speaker 1: same DNC saying, well, biden't be Trump once. He's our man,

1453
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:45,840
Speaker 1: even though he will be eighty six if he serves

1454
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:49,800
Speaker 1: the second term. What would you advise the DNC and

1455
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 1: Democratic Party?

1456
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 2: Tell her the truth, stick to your guns, don't be

1457
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:05,800
Speaker 2: intimidated by these assholes embraced byen. He's great, That's what

1458
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 2: I would say. Are you troubled at all by his age? Well,

1459
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:12,120
Speaker 2: of course everybody's troubled by the fact he's old. But

1460
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:16,720
Speaker 2: I'm not troubled by he is. I think he's the

1461
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:19,000
Speaker 2: most common person out there to run the country. He's

1462
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,600
Speaker 2: certainly better than any other Republican being discussed or in

1463
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:24,920
Speaker 2: the process. Now, I wouldn't trust one of those people

1464
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:28,000
Speaker 2: for throating the country, you know, but I trust Biden.

1465
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:30,720
Speaker 2: He's got the experience and the wisdom and knowledge. Look

1466
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:32,840
Speaker 2: what a great job he's doing right now. Look at

1467
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:36,000
Speaker 2: the legislation he's gotten past, which was stuck there all

1468
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:40,960
Speaker 2: these years. He's fighting both China and Russia at once,

1469
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:43,439
Speaker 2: you know, doing a hell of a job of that.

1470
01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:47,280
Speaker 2: This looks to me like a fully confident, prepared, knowledgeable,

1471
01:23:47,320 --> 01:23:50,439
Speaker 2: strategic present And he doesn't get roughed his feathers u

1472
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:53,400
Speaker 2: gruffled by the latest criticism or whatever. If you get

1473
01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:56,639
Speaker 2: into the news cycle responding the criticism all the time,

1474
01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 2: then you're a dead duck. Then you're playing the other

1475
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:03,599
Speaker 2: person's game. I think Fox is definitely a new part

1476
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:09,559
Speaker 2: of the equation these years, and it's just been It's

1477
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:15,080
Speaker 2: just poison. It's like a fear factory, you know. It

1478
01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:20,360
Speaker 2: goes out and creates fear wherever and drives this people along.

1479
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:24,160
Speaker 2: But you know, I like Biden. I like what the

1480
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 2: Demorats are doing.

1481
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:37,720
Speaker 1: Okay, it used to be Rolling Stone spoke to a generation.

1482
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 1: In the last handful of years, exacerbated by the COVID era,

1483
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:47,719
Speaker 1: all these magazines are going out of business. I'm always

1484
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:49,960
Speaker 1: weary of subscribing to a magazine. It will go out

1485
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 1: of business. Used to happen in the past, like the

1486
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:57,679
Speaker 1: Manhattaniak Clay Felk or whatever. But now Entertainment Tonight doesn't

1487
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 1: publish Entertainment Weekly. Excuse me, what is the future of

1488
01:25:02,120 --> 01:25:05,000
Speaker 1: the magazine business. You're an expert as much as anybody.

1489
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:09,880
Speaker 2: Well. The fact that the magazines are doing so poorly

1490
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:14,360
Speaker 2: is that there's no economic model left for them. The

1491
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:19,920
Speaker 2: Internet has taken away all the advertising without compensation. It

1492
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:23,559
Speaker 2: stole all the material there was the magazines and newspapers

1493
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:26,200
Speaker 2: assembled paid all this money for it. They took it free,

1494
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:29,040
Speaker 2: put it on their websites and sold advertising on it,

1495
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 2: and took away the advertisers that the magazines needed to

1496
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 2: survive on the newspapers and the news business what I

1497
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:38,880
Speaker 2: could call, by the way, the free press, which is

1498
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:41,720
Speaker 2: vital to this country, and they've replaced it with this,

1499
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:46,520
Speaker 2: you know, the Internet group of quick hits and no restraints,

1500
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:50,000
Speaker 2: no laws governing it, no laws requiring it to be

1501
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:53,040
Speaker 2: not libels or that be truthful and accurate. They somehow

1502
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 2: immunized themselves from all those rules, you know. But they're

1503
01:25:57,320 --> 01:26:00,559
Speaker 2: the most powerful press in the country. But this question

1504
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:04,840
Speaker 2: about there's no economical of there's no advertising left, so

1505
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:10,320
Speaker 2: you know, it's a more powerful medium more better meetum

1506
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:13,840
Speaker 2: for advertisers because you can target. Not only can you

1507
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 2: target down to the person, you can also send them

1508
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:21,880
Speaker 2: add TV advertising on the internet on your phone, you know,

1509
01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 2: visual advertising. So those the magazines and the newspapers pre

1510
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:31,160
Speaker 2: newspaper prepress was supported by advertisers. That's gone. And so

1511
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 2: there's there's going to be room for specially magazines and

1512
01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 2: trade journals. And there'll be room for some magazines that

1513
01:26:37,880 --> 01:26:41,080
Speaker 2: are really highly visual, the highly art trated. But I

1514
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:43,680
Speaker 2: don't think you're gonna have mass magazines anymore. You're not

1515
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:46,240
Speaker 2: gonna have general interest magazines like Rolling Stone anymore.

1516
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:50,680
Speaker 1: Okay, you have Margaret Sullivan, who was the ombudsman for

1517
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:53,720
Speaker 1: the New York Times then went to Washington Post now

1518
01:26:53,720 --> 01:26:56,519
Speaker 1: at the Guardian, wrote a whole book how to save

1519
01:26:56,680 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 1: the news industry. In my observation, whenever you try to

1520
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:04,479
Speaker 1: save something, you can't. It's only you have to progress

1521
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:07,040
Speaker 1: to the new thing in the future. Do you believe

1522
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:10,439
Speaker 1: newspapers need to be propped up or do you have

1523
01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:13,800
Speaker 1: to let the economic system work itself out and go

1524
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:14,639
Speaker 1: into the future.

1525
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:17,479
Speaker 2: I think they can be and should be propped up.

1526
01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:22,679
Speaker 2: First off, what is the Internet, which is his main commination.

1527
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:27,200
Speaker 2: But a government subsidized thing. And great part they've been

1528
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:30,840
Speaker 2: exempt from taxes for the longest period of time. They're

1529
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:34,560
Speaker 2: exempt from regulation that I was just speaking of of

1530
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:37,439
Speaker 2: content regulation by under the rules of the free press.

1531
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:41,439
Speaker 2: They were financed and support initially by the government, which

1532
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:44,799
Speaker 2: paid for the beginning of the Internet and invented the Internet,

1533
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:48,679
Speaker 2: and still subsidizes it with all kinds of tax breaks

1534
01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:53,080
Speaker 2: and all kinds of contracts from the Defense Department, Higher Education,

1535
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:56,680
Speaker 2: you know, paying these companies enormous months of money. So

1536
01:27:57,240 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 2: if you want to talk about a subsidized industry, you know,

1537
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:03,560
Speaker 2: it's the Internet. Now they've got billions and billions and

1538
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:05,479
Speaker 2: hundreds of millions I was sitting in their bank accounts,

1539
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:09,679
Speaker 2: which ought to be repurposed. That's tax money they should

1540
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:12,760
Speaker 2: have paid into the system. I'll repurpose. And you could

1541
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 2: do things that that you call it artificially propping up.

1542
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:18,760
Speaker 2: And I agree with you about how you can't save

1543
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:22,960
Speaker 2: a dying dog, but you could give the magazine newspapers

1544
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:26,680
Speaker 2: and mail them free. If we're going to give the

1545
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:30,840
Speaker 2: internet freedom of the public airwaves and the public utilities,

1546
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:33,760
Speaker 2: and they don't pay for that, then the newspapers and

1547
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 2: magazines maybe should get some of the same. So if

1548
01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:40,320
Speaker 2: you take away the calls of postage for them, you know,

1549
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:44,640
Speaker 2: and subsides by the government, that's a start, you know.

1550
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:46,759
Speaker 2: And I can think of a bunch of other ways,

1551
01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 2: you know, and which share subsidies, which would be good.

1552
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:54,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not talking about I'm talking about subsidizing

1553
01:28:54,360 --> 01:28:59,240
Speaker 2: something here that like the British subsidies of BBC. I mean,

1554
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:02,000
Speaker 2: we have MPR, could go further than that and such.

1555
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:06,080
Speaker 2: But this medium, the press, the free press, was deemed

1556
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:10,880
Speaker 2: by the founding fathers to be absolutely vital to the

1557
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:16,320
Speaker 2: function of democracy, that a well informed public was necessary

1558
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:19,000
Speaker 2: to make to elect the politicians that we wanted, and

1559
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:22,040
Speaker 2: to make the decisions and policy decisions that we wanted.

1560
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:24,840
Speaker 2: And I think that judgment they made was absolutely correct

1561
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:27,160
Speaker 2: in the first place, that when the public turns on

1562
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:31,439
Speaker 2: something and they properly formed public opinions, absolutely paradis to

1563
01:29:31,439 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 2: public policy. And we're not getting that now. It was

1564
01:29:35,240 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 2: so important that they made it the first Amendment to

1565
01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:42,360
Speaker 2: the United States that you could not inhibit the practice

1566
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:44,400
Speaker 2: of the free press. We need that and we need

1567
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:45,120
Speaker 2: to restore that.

1568
01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:54,439
Speaker 1: Okay, Lena Kahan, who is our antitrust point person, is

1569
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,680
Speaker 1: being more aggressive. Do you have a viewpoint on antitrust.

1570
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,960
Speaker 2: I think we all enforced the laws. I think every

1571
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:08,839
Speaker 2: time you've seen UH this kind of like anti competitive

1572
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:14,320
Speaker 2: uh combination of elements of manufacturing or initial elements, whether

1573
01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:16,920
Speaker 2: it was the three collar makers or the three UH

1574
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:22,680
Speaker 2: broadcaster network broadcasters, or the telephone company or you name it.

1575
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:27,000
Speaker 2: You know Microsoft yourself, you raise prices and you stultified

1576
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:31,160
Speaker 2: innovation and competition. Since we broke up the telephone companies.

1577
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 2: Look what's happened as the baby bills in the competition

1578
01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:38,840
Speaker 2: and started financing cellular service, same with Microsoft. That could

1579
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:41,920
Speaker 2: happen a thousand internet companies bloomed and all this you

1580
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:44,800
Speaker 2: know other stuff. The three networks are terrible enough to all,

1581
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:47,680
Speaker 2: you know they but they'll get back to one good

1582
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:51,400
Speaker 2: thing they did. But in terms of they're programming the

1583
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:54,760
Speaker 2: liberality of it. You know. Also now you've got and

1584
01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:58,680
Speaker 2: the three carding manufacturers because of their stifling of competition,

1585
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:01,640
Speaker 2: you know, because they were such a monoplist didn't have

1586
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:04,919
Speaker 2: to be. That led the open the market to Japanese Germans.

1587
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:08,759
Speaker 2: All the people denovated and did better cars, far better cars.

1588
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:13,000
Speaker 2: The problem wasn't how clever the Japanese were. It was

1589
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:16,160
Speaker 2: the fact that we were so retarded. We made clunky cars.

1590
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:19,720
Speaker 2: The doors didn't fit properly into the you know, into

1591
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:23,800
Speaker 2: the doorframe. No, they just didn't do good cars, and

1592
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:25,800
Speaker 2: somebody else came along. So I think if we had

1593
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:29,800
Speaker 2: some the history of competition is good for us. But

1594
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:35,480
Speaker 2: I say this about it. Regulated competition capitalism cannot be unregulated.

1595
01:31:36,160 --> 01:31:40,320
Speaker 2: There has to be supervision, has to be managed properly

1596
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:45,040
Speaker 2: because unready to competition where greed conguers all ain't gonna

1597
01:31:45,160 --> 01:31:47,600
Speaker 2: ain't good for us, and that's what happens. So we

1598
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 2: need regulated capitalism. What the networks did when there were

1599
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:53,760
Speaker 2: three of them and there wasn't all this kind of

1600
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 2: crazy Internet stuff, is we were able to unify society,

1601
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:03,160
Speaker 2: you know, with standards of everybody agreed upon. We could

1602
01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:08,080
Speaker 2: agree upon standards of truth, of fact and all this

1603
01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 2: Internet crap that goes on, the unregular, unregulated crap. If

1604
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:15,720
Speaker 2: we're really regulating that networks even more of that by

1605
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:20,920
Speaker 2: the FCC about objectivity, you know, fairness, truth, we would

1606
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:23,080
Speaker 2: have more results like we just had in the Fox

1607
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:29,160
Speaker 2: versus dominion case that they've been so unsupervised. Did they

1608
01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:35,479
Speaker 2: emit damaging society? So I want to we need managed

1609
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:39,360
Speaker 2: cap We cannot cannot have monopoly capitalism, that'll ruin us.

1610
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:40,760
Speaker 2: We need managed combolists.

1611
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:45,360
Speaker 1: Okay, you have a new book coming out. Fifty years ago,

1612
01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 1: you had your own publishing company, Straight Arrow Lennon remembers

1613
01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:52,840
Speaker 1: came out on that Bill Owen Suburbia. What you learn

1614
01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:54,480
Speaker 1: in that venture.

1615
01:32:55,840 --> 01:32:58,720
Speaker 2: The book publishing has its own very special business that

1616
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 2: requires its own intuitive touch and it's own time frame

1617
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:06,600
Speaker 2: and rhythm. And that wasn't my business. My business magazines

1618
01:33:06,640 --> 01:33:07,040
Speaker 2: and news.

1619
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:12,400
Speaker 1: Okay, switching to you, you ultimately got involved with US.

1620
01:33:12,600 --> 01:33:19,960
Speaker 1: You purchase US. Is gossip a fundamental element of society?

1621
01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:23,760
Speaker 1: Is it more powerful? Now less powerful? There's certainly much

1622
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:29,200
Speaker 1: more information online. By the same token, It's not like

1623
01:33:29,320 --> 01:33:31,840
Speaker 1: the old days where you went to the supermarket and

1624
01:33:31,880 --> 01:33:33,479
Speaker 1: you saw it just a couple of magazines. So I

1625
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:35,040
Speaker 1: headline and everybody knew those.

1626
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:40,000
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I was thinking I missed the very question.

1627
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:41,920
Speaker 2: The first part of that, the premisey.

1628
01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:45,960
Speaker 1: The bottom line with US magazine is gossip something that's

1629
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:51,240
Speaker 1: institutional that just transcends time. Or are we in a

1630
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:55,560
Speaker 1: waning era? And it's ironic because we have much more information,

1631
01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:58,720
Speaker 1: yet nothing has the penetration of the way it used to.

1632
01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:07,000
Speaker 2: Is eternal. You know. Uh, it's been with us since

1633
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:10,760
Speaker 2: the beginning of time. I mean, what's the world's oldest profession, right,

1634
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:15,200
Speaker 2: we say that's prostitution. What's the world's second oldest protests?

1635
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:19,200
Speaker 2: Professionals talking about who's doing it? Right? So, I mean,

1636
01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 2: you're gonna have gossip forget, don't don't you know, it's

1637
01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:26,360
Speaker 2: too much fun. Everybody likes it. We're told not to,

1638
01:34:26,640 --> 01:34:29,920
Speaker 2: you know, that shall not whatever. But the nature of

1639
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:38,880
Speaker 2: it has changed so much, the the that there's it's

1640
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:41,200
Speaker 2: first of it's sound the internet, it's everywhere, you know,

1641
01:34:41,280 --> 01:34:43,560
Speaker 2: so you don't have any filters on it anymore. And

1642
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:46,080
Speaker 2: you've got different sets of people, and frankly, more people

1643
01:34:46,120 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 2: are more interestedout gossip in among their these people in

1644
01:34:53,200 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 2: the real world or these in celebrities, or these influencers

1645
01:34:57,280 --> 01:35:03,400
Speaker 2: or people you know, they're not mostly they're not made

1646
01:35:03,479 --> 01:35:08,200
Speaker 2: by movie studios or or even you know anymore. I mean,

1647
01:35:08,680 --> 01:35:10,720
Speaker 2: what movie starts with television? Do you care about their

1648
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:12,800
Speaker 2: lives that muchmore? I don't know because I'm your age

1649
01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:17,479
Speaker 2: and we I don't know who they are, but they're

1650
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:20,160
Speaker 2: not the great unifying people. These are. There's thousands of them,

1651
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:23,360
Speaker 2: you know. And it's the result of reality TV. It's

1652
01:35:23,400 --> 01:35:26,040
Speaker 2: the result of as Andy Warhol said, everybody will be

1653
01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:29,719
Speaker 2: famous for fifteen minutes, you know. So everybody is famous

1654
01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:32,479
Speaker 2: for fifteen minutes, and we now have the technology that

1655
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:33,040
Speaker 2: enables it.

1656
01:35:34,840 --> 01:35:38,439
Speaker 1: So do you read the new J. Penske controlled Rolling Stone?

1657
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:42,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course I see it. Yeah. Do I read everything? No,

1658
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:46,439
Speaker 2: but of course it's Yeah. What am I supposed to say?

1659
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:49,519
Speaker 2: It's not in my era anymore?

1660
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:54,599
Speaker 1: Okay, but if you see it, if you could snap.

1661
01:35:55,000 --> 01:35:59,439
Speaker 1: Conventional wisdom is that Rolling Stone missed the Internet. It

1662
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:02,080
Speaker 1: was one of many companies that was accused of that.

1663
01:36:03,000 --> 01:36:06,880
Speaker 1: If you look at Rolling Stone today and you snap

1664
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:10,160
Speaker 1: my fingers and you're in charge, what would you do differently?

1665
01:36:13,320 --> 01:36:15,639
Speaker 2: Well, I think that the first question. I think every

1666
01:36:15,680 --> 01:36:18,360
Speaker 2: publishing company missed the Internet, except for The New York Times,

1667
01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:22,439
Speaker 2: which seems to have really did finally figure it out.

1668
01:36:22,520 --> 01:36:27,160
Speaker 2: I mean, God, bless uh, nobody, none of the no Hurst,

1669
01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:33,240
Speaker 2: no Disney, Condie, Nasty Murdoch. Remember my my Space for

1670
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:35,599
Speaker 2: a half a billion notes. Nobody figured out and nobody

1671
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:38,160
Speaker 2: you know, so you can't turn around a big old

1672
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:40,320
Speaker 2: you know, you're running a big old battleship. Nobody you

1673
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:43,120
Speaker 2: can't the new thing. It's hard to figure that out.

1674
01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:48,640
Speaker 2: So but I must say I'm the only We're the

1675
01:36:48,720 --> 01:36:51,519
Speaker 2: only company didn't lose millions and millions of dollars on

1676
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:55,680
Speaker 2: it by saying we're not going to jump into this prematurely. Uh.

1677
01:36:55,960 --> 01:36:59,200
Speaker 2: And if I could snap my fingers, I would put

1678
01:36:59,280 --> 01:37:03,280
Speaker 2: myself back in No. I would say, well, if you were,

1679
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:05,760
Speaker 2: if you were back in charge, what would you do.

1680
01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:08,599
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think I should be back in charge.

1681
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:10,880
Speaker 2: I think it's time for new group of people to

1682
01:37:10,960 --> 01:37:12,840
Speaker 2: do it. And they're doing it, and they're doing for

1683
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:15,360
Speaker 2: that kind of a newer audience and in a newer way.

1684
01:37:15,760 --> 01:37:19,160
Speaker 2: It's very Internet oriented now, more than magazine oriented. And

1685
01:37:19,560 --> 01:37:21,799
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have made those I would. I'm a magazine

1686
01:37:21,840 --> 01:37:24,519
Speaker 2: person on the Internet person. So you know I'm the

1687
01:37:24,600 --> 01:37:25,120
Speaker 2: wrong person.

1688
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:29,240
Speaker 1: Okay, but if you look at MTV, MTV.

1689
01:37:28,920 --> 01:37:30,880
Speaker 2: I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't say out there, I

1690
01:37:30,880 --> 01:37:31,880
Speaker 2: wouldn't accept the job.

1691
01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:37,720
Speaker 1: Okay. MTV famously decided they were going to stick with

1692
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:41,080
Speaker 1: a demo as supposed to stick with their audience. They

1693
01:37:41,240 --> 01:37:46,720
Speaker 1: fired the original vj's Rolling Stone certainly evolved. Was that

1694
01:37:46,960 --> 01:37:49,200
Speaker 1: something where you sat down and say we have to

1695
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:53,880
Speaker 1: change or was it something happened unconsciously? What was going

1696
01:37:53,920 --> 01:37:57,840
Speaker 1: on for those fifty years? Well, oh my fifty years

1697
01:37:58,479 --> 01:38:00,680
Speaker 1: were fifty years talking about you.

1698
01:38:02,200 --> 01:38:04,519
Speaker 2: We we basically followed the news. What was in the

1699
01:38:04,600 --> 01:38:07,240
Speaker 2: news was most people with the movies or was it

1700
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:11,360
Speaker 2: music stars or there's politics or whatever it is. We

1701
01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:13,600
Speaker 2: you know, both in terms of what we put on

1702
01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:16,559
Speaker 2: the cover and the stories we covered inside of an election,

1703
01:38:17,080 --> 01:38:20,360
Speaker 2: So we were always with what the most people were

1704
01:38:20,439 --> 01:38:23,920
Speaker 2: interested in. You know, it was a new music star

1705
01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:26,600
Speaker 2: like Taylor Swift who was causing us, we put her

1706
01:38:26,640 --> 01:38:29,679
Speaker 2: on the cover. You know, it was you know old

1707
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:32,720
Speaker 2: Coot running for office, Hillary Clinton, we put her on

1708
01:38:32,800 --> 01:38:35,280
Speaker 2: the cover. If it was you know, a movie star.

1709
01:38:35,400 --> 01:38:38,160
Speaker 2: You know, so we we did all kinds of things,

1710
01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:43,360
Speaker 2: but basically, what were people who in our culture We

1711
01:38:43,680 --> 01:38:47,240
Speaker 2: wanted to influence our generation and leaders of our jertion

1712
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:50,800
Speaker 2: and the people what were the most interested in and

1713
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:55,080
Speaker 2: seeing through the primise prism of culture, you know, using

1714
01:38:55,160 --> 01:38:58,600
Speaker 2: culture as a filter for it. So whether it's the

1715
01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:01,600
Speaker 2: actual culture or the value of that culture, what that

1716
01:39:02,040 --> 01:39:04,519
Speaker 2: culture stood for, what I thought the value should be

1717
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:10,000
Speaker 2: that we should stand for. And we probably covered everything.

1718
01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:12,920
Speaker 2: I mean, we we've covered all Team Pop, whether it

1719
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:15,200
Speaker 2: was you know, Brittany and Justin back in the day

1720
01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:17,720
Speaker 2: up to Taylor Swift under when I was there, we

1721
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:20,040
Speaker 2: did we had done at least three Taylor Swift covers.

1722
01:39:20,520 --> 01:39:23,519
Speaker 2: You know rap we had. We had every raps are

1723
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:26,200
Speaker 2: worth imagining, you know, worth worth it on the cover.

1724
01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:29,880
Speaker 2: We never gave us up an inch in our coverage

1725
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:31,479
Speaker 2: of that. And I had the best coverage of any

1726
01:39:31,560 --> 01:39:35,360
Speaker 2: magazine of the country on rap, including Vibe and and

1727
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:47,840
Speaker 2: UH almost besides Vibe the source UH and UH and

1728
01:39:47,960 --> 01:39:51,600
Speaker 2: politics absolute vital perforce in politics and national politics. We

1729
01:39:51,640 --> 01:39:58,080
Speaker 2: had a role of voice in that so and I

1730
01:39:58,280 --> 01:40:02,080
Speaker 2: like that. But obviously, you know, things are different now.

1731
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:06,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I think without that unique mix and all that,

1732
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:14,639
Speaker 2: the centrality of a magazine was diminished. And then because

1733
01:40:14,640 --> 01:40:16,280
Speaker 2: the impact of the importance of the Internet was so

1734
01:40:16,400 --> 01:40:19,439
Speaker 2: much greater, and it kind of diminished the voice. But

1735
01:40:20,880 --> 01:40:23,639
Speaker 2: you know, we were unusual, highly unusual.

1736
01:40:24,479 --> 01:40:28,320
Speaker 1: You know, Tom will famously disparage The New Yorker. What's

1737
01:40:28,400 --> 01:40:29,759
Speaker 1: your take on the New Yorker?

1738
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:34,280
Speaker 2: But I mean his thing was funny at the time.

1739
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:37,840
Speaker 2: I mean The New Yorker was one of my favorite magazines.

1740
01:40:40,040 --> 01:40:41,719
Speaker 1: Okay, do you miss scheme?

1741
01:40:43,880 --> 01:40:47,679
Speaker 2: I shouldn't. I do, yes, but I'm reconciling the fact

1742
01:40:47,680 --> 01:40:50,599
Speaker 2: that I can't. But I loved it. I put years

1743
01:40:50,640 --> 01:40:53,839
Speaker 2: of my life into it. Just great joy and pleasure.

1744
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:56,599
Speaker 1: So rumor was that if you heard it was good,

1745
01:40:56,680 --> 01:40:58,880
Speaker 1: you would fly out the sun Valley for the weekend

1746
01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:00,280
Speaker 1: ski the powder. Was that true?

1747
01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:00,920
Speaker 2: Yes?

1748
01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:03,800
Speaker 1: So how many days did you get in a year?

1749
01:41:04,920 --> 01:41:07,559
Speaker 2: I would do an average of about sixty to seventy

1750
01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:10,080
Speaker 2: if you season for about twenty seasons.

1751
01:41:12,840 --> 01:41:13,479
Speaker 1: Oh, very much.

1752
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:15,760
Speaker 2: So that's why you'd asked that question last year.

1753
01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:20,759
Speaker 1: Last year I got fifties. Well, I went to college

1754
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:23,240
Speaker 1: in Vermont at Middlebury. College had its own ski area.

1755
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:23,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1756
01:41:23,880 --> 01:41:27,240
Speaker 1: I was a starving freestyle skier in Utah at Snowbird

1757
01:41:27,400 --> 01:41:32,000
Speaker 1: for two years. Oh but my girl, those those were

1758
01:41:32,200 --> 01:41:33,920
Speaker 1: seventy five and seventy six.

1759
01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:39,440
Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah, I was, yeah going to stay because.

1760
01:41:39,240 --> 01:41:42,040
Speaker 1: Seventy seven, just to be clear, since we're going was

1761
01:41:42,160 --> 01:41:45,040
Speaker 1: the bad year there wasn't another bad year after that

1762
01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:48,080
Speaker 1: till twenty twelve. That was when you know, the skiers

1763
01:41:48,160 --> 01:41:51,800
Speaker 1: tell your rye closed for a while. But my girlfriend's

1764
01:41:51,800 --> 01:41:54,120
Speaker 1: families had a place in the lodge a Veil since

1765
01:41:54,240 --> 01:41:59,160
Speaker 1: the seventies. So although the skiing is not that difficult,

1766
01:41:59,240 --> 01:42:01,880
Speaker 1: it veil, that's where I spend most of my time,

1767
01:42:01,960 --> 01:42:04,120
Speaker 1: not all of my time. I had Aspen before that,

1768
01:42:04,360 --> 01:42:07,759
Speaker 1: I hit Little Cottonwood, Candy a little bit, Sun Valley,

1769
01:42:08,439 --> 01:42:12,519
Speaker 1: phenomenal mountain. Just they don't get that much snow, but.

1770
01:42:12,680 --> 01:42:18,720
Speaker 2: They got your best nomaking now absolutely absolutely. And the

1771
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:23,320
Speaker 2: season last year, yeah, I yeah, so good. Well, god,

1772
01:42:23,400 --> 01:42:25,800
Speaker 2: let's fifty eight days, a lot of skiing, as you

1773
01:42:26,040 --> 01:42:29,760
Speaker 2: know what that's like. And I'm sure I could have

1774
01:42:31,120 --> 01:42:34,040
Speaker 2: been more of an empire builder and made more money

1775
01:42:34,160 --> 01:42:36,720
Speaker 2: and you know, on and on if i'd paid me,

1776
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:40,200
Speaker 2: But I you know, what's life about. You know, it's

1777
01:42:40,320 --> 01:42:42,680
Speaker 2: enough money and I had so much fun and my

1778
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:46,479
Speaker 2: kids are all great skiers now, you know, still family time.

1779
01:42:46,600 --> 01:42:48,360
Speaker 1: And was it primarily sun Valley?

1780
01:42:49,479 --> 01:42:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, once you end up in a plate, I mean

1781
01:42:51,640 --> 01:42:54,559
Speaker 2: it was. It was Aspen at first was my favorite. Well,

1782
01:42:54,600 --> 01:42:56,920
Speaker 2: I grew up in San Francisco. So I ski Squaw Valley,

1783
01:42:56,920 --> 01:42:59,280
Speaker 2: in Hemley Valley and the Sugar Bowl, and so as

1784
01:42:59,320 --> 01:43:02,400
Speaker 2: a kid, my met on a ski trip. So I

1785
01:43:02,520 --> 01:43:05,599
Speaker 2: was really tell me that story. In the forties, they

1786
01:43:05,640 --> 01:43:10,439
Speaker 2: were both in your early forties, and my one of

1787
01:43:10,479 --> 01:43:12,559
Speaker 2: them put up a note as ski start saying, looking

1788
01:43:12,640 --> 01:43:15,160
Speaker 2: for rides this weekend to Hunter a mountain or whatever.

1789
01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:18,920
Speaker 2: And that's how they hooked up as skiers, you know,

1790
01:43:18,960 --> 01:43:22,599
Speaker 2: and that's how they met. So we as kids who

1791
01:43:22,600 --> 01:43:25,400
Speaker 2: were living in San Francisco at the time, naturally we're

1792
01:43:25,439 --> 01:43:28,080
Speaker 2: taking up skiing. Every vacation, we went skiing, you know,

1793
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:31,160
Speaker 2: every Christmas, everything, all the time. We went to Squad

1794
01:43:31,200 --> 01:43:32,840
Speaker 2: and they were just about to build a house there

1795
01:43:33,479 --> 01:43:37,920
Speaker 2: when they decided to divorce instead. So it just it

1796
01:43:38,120 --> 01:43:40,040
Speaker 2: just got in the blood, you know, just all of

1797
01:43:40,080 --> 01:43:43,800
Speaker 2: this was a family thing. And I picked up again

1798
01:43:43,800 --> 01:43:47,080
Speaker 2: as an adult, you know, I skilled till about college,

1799
01:43:47,120 --> 01:43:50,000
Speaker 2: and I stopped and started again as an adult. Coinciding

1800
01:43:50,080 --> 01:43:54,800
Speaker 2: with starting with Hunter, who lived in Aspen, and he

1801
01:43:54,960 --> 01:43:58,360
Speaker 2: was no great help for schime. Terrible terrible, terrible influence.

1802
01:43:58,760 --> 01:44:00,600
Speaker 2: If you can't if you stay at two o'clock in

1803
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:02,400
Speaker 2: the morning, you're not going to ski. I mean, that's

1804
01:44:02,479 --> 01:44:06,160
Speaker 2: not but started skiing and Aspen and finally when I

1805
01:44:06,200 --> 01:44:08,080
Speaker 2: decided I'm going to do this for a good long

1806
01:44:08,160 --> 01:44:11,439
Speaker 2: time and now it's time to buy a house, checked

1807
01:44:11,479 --> 01:44:14,280
Speaker 2: out the various other ski yeers. Now I've been skiing Aspen,

1808
01:44:14,800 --> 01:44:19,720
Speaker 2: Jackson Hole and Snowbirds as a trio. But I'd never

1809
01:44:19,760 --> 01:44:21,320
Speaker 2: been to some valley. But I went and looked around

1810
01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:25,599
Speaker 2: it tell your ride and Big Sky and Sun Valley

1811
01:44:25,880 --> 01:44:28,000
Speaker 2: in some valley was the place that had the best mountain,

1812
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:31,160
Speaker 2: the kind of skiing I like to do, the nicest environment.

1813
01:44:31,160 --> 01:44:32,800
Speaker 2: I wanted to get away from Asspen on the drug

1814
01:44:32,920 --> 01:44:36,639
Speaker 2: trade and from the living in a big high society culture,

1815
01:44:36,760 --> 01:44:38,800
Speaker 2: like the kids were going to grow up anyway, and

1816
01:44:39,160 --> 01:44:41,639
Speaker 2: it was just a family place, you know, world class

1817
01:44:41,640 --> 01:44:45,080
Speaker 2: skiing with family values and great places.

1818
01:44:45,720 --> 01:44:48,639
Speaker 1: So if you skied sixty or seventy days a year,

1819
01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:52,360
Speaker 1: would you park your ass in ketch them or would

1820
01:44:52,360 --> 01:44:55,040
Speaker 1: we just go out? You get in your plane whenever

1821
01:44:55,120 --> 01:44:56,080
Speaker 1: the conditions were good.

1822
01:44:57,400 --> 01:45:01,920
Speaker 2: Well, at first I would first few days, first first

1823
01:45:01,960 --> 01:45:04,360
Speaker 2: few years, I just parked my ass and you know,

1824
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:06,559
Speaker 2: just get a condo and catch them and all that stuff.

1825
01:45:06,560 --> 01:45:08,760
Speaker 2: And as I realized I was doing this more and more.

1826
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:11,280
Speaker 2: I said, we just have to buy a house. We

1827
01:45:11,400 --> 01:45:17,320
Speaker 2: bought a house in Hailey, Okay. And it started, and

1828
01:45:17,400 --> 01:45:20,559
Speaker 2: I realized that the thing was to spend two Actually,

1829
01:45:20,680 --> 01:45:25,719
Speaker 2: if I started scheduling in advance my appointments in stuff

1830
01:45:25,720 --> 01:45:28,120
Speaker 2: I do in New York and made it inviolable, then

1831
01:45:28,160 --> 01:45:31,479
Speaker 2: I could actually spend hanks of time in Sun Valley

1832
01:45:31,920 --> 01:45:33,559
Speaker 2: rather than going out on the spur of the moment.

1833
01:45:33,720 --> 01:45:35,360
Speaker 2: So I just converted my thinking too, you know what

1834
01:45:35,479 --> 01:45:38,000
Speaker 2: I'm gonna live, I'll think of it as living there

1835
01:45:38,080 --> 01:45:40,720
Speaker 2: and coming back to New York the occasional break. I

1836
01:45:40,840 --> 01:45:43,080
Speaker 2: started doing that successfully, and after that then I gave

1837
01:45:43,160 --> 01:45:47,120
Speaker 2: up the plane because I wasn't commuting back and forth. Yeah,

1838
01:45:47,120 --> 01:45:48,960
Speaker 2: I mean I didn't get up right away, but I

1839
01:45:49,120 --> 01:45:51,000
Speaker 2: was going out there to live for the season, coming

1840
01:45:51,080 --> 01:45:54,760
Speaker 2: back for two or three periods that First they'd be

1841
01:45:54,800 --> 01:45:56,479
Speaker 2: two weeks at a time, then it'd be a week

1842
01:45:56,520 --> 01:45:58,200
Speaker 2: at a time, and then finally I came back just

1843
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:03,160
Speaker 2: one week, you know, and so and I was, well,

1844
01:46:03,240 --> 01:46:06,160
Speaker 2: what are you the kind of guys with coincid? Anybody

1845
01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:10,160
Speaker 2: with technological progress like the Internet really helped, you know,

1846
01:46:10,640 --> 01:46:13,240
Speaker 2: rather than having things fedexed out overnight and having any

1847
01:46:13,240 --> 01:46:14,240
Speaker 2: approved layouts like that.

1848
01:46:15,120 --> 01:46:18,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so what would your schedule be? Would you take

1849
01:46:18,160 --> 01:46:21,560
Speaker 1: the calls from Europe before you went out there, you know,

1850
01:46:21,640 --> 01:46:23,439
Speaker 1: with a high speed list the run two and a

1851
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:26,600
Speaker 1: half times faster. Nobody skis from Bell to Bell. What

1852
01:46:26,800 --> 01:46:27,559
Speaker 1: was your schedule?

1853
01:46:28,040 --> 01:46:30,080
Speaker 2: I was skiing from Bell de Bell and I was

1854
01:46:30,200 --> 01:46:32,280
Speaker 2: exhausted at the end of it and couldn't do the

1855
01:46:32,360 --> 01:46:34,519
Speaker 2: work really because I was the only one going up

1856
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:37,760
Speaker 2: after lunch and I haven't got idiot, you know, but

1857
01:46:38,040 --> 01:46:41,960
Speaker 2: I as a much warmer. Yeah. And then also I

1858
01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:45,360
Speaker 2: was getting into smoking pot skiing and if you do that,

1859
01:46:45,520 --> 01:46:47,960
Speaker 2: and I can't smoke it. So I had cookies and

1860
01:46:48,040 --> 01:46:49,800
Speaker 2: then they just stay in you all day and then

1861
01:46:50,120 --> 01:46:54,360
Speaker 2: you're so tired when you get home. Somehow, I as

1862
01:46:54,400 --> 01:46:56,960
Speaker 2: I got older, I just said it wasn't I couldn't

1863
01:46:56,960 --> 01:46:59,240
Speaker 2: ski Bell de Bell anymore. That was for young people.

1864
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:03,120
Speaker 2: I stop. I had to finally stop taking cookies because

1865
01:47:03,120 --> 01:47:05,960
Speaker 2: I couldn't concentrate. But I got in the morning. First thing,

1866
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:08,680
Speaker 2: I visa to the lifts, and then when I might

1867
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:10,800
Speaker 2: put my young here's what we have, here's what you

1868
01:47:10,880 --> 01:47:15,519
Speaker 2: look at in the last over the last ten fifteen years.

1869
01:47:16,120 --> 01:47:19,320
Speaker 2: I put my younger kids into school there and not

1870
01:47:19,439 --> 01:47:21,160
Speaker 2: in New York City. So in the winters we go

1871
01:47:21,240 --> 01:47:24,000
Speaker 2: to community school and ketch them. So I get up early,

1872
01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:25,519
Speaker 2: about seven o'clock in the morning and take them out

1873
01:47:25,520 --> 01:47:27,559
Speaker 2: to community school and catch them from where we lived

1874
01:47:27,640 --> 01:47:29,960
Speaker 2: a half an hour away, drop off school, go over.

1875
01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:31,880
Speaker 2: I had a condo at the base of the mountain,

1876
01:47:32,680 --> 01:47:34,840
Speaker 2: at the base of Baldy, where I would do some

1877
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:37,720
Speaker 2: phone calls, do my half an hour Internet stuff and

1878
01:47:37,800 --> 01:47:40,040
Speaker 2: then go meet be on the first leve at eight

1879
01:47:40,120 --> 01:47:41,920
Speaker 2: thirty or nine.

1880
01:47:42,600 --> 01:47:44,000
Speaker 1: Was your condo? Worm Springs?

1881
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:47,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, the totally at the base of Warms right right.

1882
01:47:47,840 --> 01:47:49,479
Speaker 1: We're allowed to do And where where do you like

1883
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:50,679
Speaker 1: to ski? At Sun Valley?

1884
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:56,040
Speaker 2: Those my favorite? Well, skipping the powder days, you know

1885
01:47:56,120 --> 01:47:58,360
Speaker 2: when you always want to go to the bowls or

1886
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:01,400
Speaker 2: do some things. I mean skiing. Worm Springs itself is

1887
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:03,920
Speaker 2: just great straight shot down Warm Springs, which you could

1888
01:48:03,960 --> 01:48:06,120
Speaker 2: do most of the time. You can do a NonStop

1889
01:48:06,160 --> 01:48:08,479
Speaker 2: if you're in shape. Nobody's there except in the holidays.

1890
01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:12,360
Speaker 2: I loved that. I liked, you know, squirrel, I think

1891
01:48:12,479 --> 01:48:19,120
Speaker 2: was cool great, you know, I mean orange Springs was

1892
01:48:19,160 --> 01:48:21,680
Speaker 2: the thing for me, you know, and then I love

1893
01:48:21,800 --> 01:48:28,280
Speaker 2: Midriv and uh, what's the next midriv? What's that call?

1894
01:48:28,360 --> 01:48:29,800
Speaker 2: I think of it in the second of My memory

1895
01:48:29,840 --> 01:48:37,680
Speaker 2: is so shot these days. Uh, and those those are

1896
01:48:37,720 --> 01:48:41,080
Speaker 2: the great Those are the great runs. I mean mid

1897
01:48:41,160 --> 01:48:43,400
Speaker 2: Rive and worm Strings. You can just haul fucking ass

1898
01:48:43,880 --> 01:48:47,479
Speaker 2: so fast, unbelievable. And skin of bumps in the bowl

1899
01:48:47,560 --> 01:48:50,680
Speaker 2: is also great. Yeah, it's just that's so fun when

1900
01:48:50,680 --> 01:48:52,479
Speaker 2: the conditions are good. Well.

1901
01:48:52,520 --> 01:48:54,920
Speaker 1: The great thing about Sun Valley, unlike any other place,

1902
01:48:55,439 --> 01:48:58,400
Speaker 1: is the slope starts at a certain pitch and that

1903
01:48:58,600 --> 01:49:02,160
Speaker 1: doesn't flatten out until you get to the lift there.

1904
01:49:03,920 --> 01:49:06,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is the magic. No other is. There's no

1905
01:49:06,520 --> 01:49:07,840
Speaker 2: other mountain you can think of like that.

1906
01:49:08,600 --> 01:49:08,840
Speaker 1: None.

1907
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:11,880
Speaker 2: And if you're combine that the fact that nobody's there,

1908
01:49:12,800 --> 01:49:16,880
Speaker 2: and if patrol doesn't stop you, if nobody's around, you

1909
01:49:16,960 --> 01:49:18,960
Speaker 2: can do whatever you want. I mean, the days you

1910
01:49:19,040 --> 01:49:21,080
Speaker 2: go up there and warms is just empty for like

1911
01:49:21,479 --> 01:49:25,080
Speaker 2: nearly all day. It's just your mountain, your mountain.

1912
01:49:25,800 --> 01:49:27,640
Speaker 1: Did you go to other places? Did you go to

1913
01:49:27,720 --> 01:49:29,240
Speaker 1: South America? Did you go to Europe?

1914
01:49:29,920 --> 01:49:31,839
Speaker 2: We went to you. No, I never went to South America,

1915
01:49:31,880 --> 01:49:33,880
Speaker 2: but we went to Europe several times, and that was

1916
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:36,040
Speaker 2: a lot of fun. But it's in the end it's

1917
01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:37,200
Speaker 2: not as good as Hunt Valley.

1918
01:49:37,640 --> 01:49:38,200
Speaker 1: No it's not.

1919
01:49:39,120 --> 01:49:42,720
Speaker 2: I mean the food is better, but even then, and then,

1920
01:49:43,200 --> 01:49:45,160
Speaker 2: you know, we went over to Jackson a couple of times,

1921
01:49:45,479 --> 01:49:47,439
Speaker 2: and I went back to Aspen a couple times, sealed

1922
01:49:47,479 --> 01:49:50,000
Speaker 2: friends and ski a little bit, by and large. Once

1923
01:49:50,040 --> 01:49:51,439
Speaker 2: you're settled in, you know, you get to go to

1924
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:54,479
Speaker 2: your own home. You know, as you get older, it's

1925
01:49:54,560 --> 01:49:57,000
Speaker 2: more about the comforts than you know, the adventure of

1926
01:49:57,080 --> 01:49:59,360
Speaker 2: finding a new spot and you know, are you going

1927
01:49:59,439 --> 01:50:03,760
Speaker 2: to finally take culberts which I never did? And uh,

1928
01:50:04,920 --> 01:50:06,040
Speaker 2: it's just easier staying home.

1929
01:50:07,800 --> 01:50:11,160
Speaker 1: And to what degree did your health problems fuck you

1930
01:50:11,320 --> 01:50:11,839
Speaker 1: up mentally?

1931
01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:16,840
Speaker 2: I don't think they They make you sit back and

1932
01:50:16,920 --> 01:50:19,680
Speaker 2: really think about your life like they always do. And

1933
01:50:19,880 --> 01:50:23,439
Speaker 2: I thought that was good. That was helpful for me. Yeah,

1934
01:50:23,479 --> 01:50:25,720
Speaker 2: that didn't fuck me up at all. It made me

1935
01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:27,360
Speaker 2: think twice, which is great.

1936
01:50:29,320 --> 01:50:32,720
Speaker 1: Well, moving forward, to what degree are you impact your

1937
01:50:32,720 --> 01:50:35,639
Speaker 1: every day in life impacted by your health issues?

1938
01:50:36,240 --> 01:50:39,640
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not, you know, physically active at all. You know,

1939
01:50:39,680 --> 01:50:42,400
Speaker 2: I don't going out as a you know, pain any

1940
01:50:42,479 --> 01:50:45,360
Speaker 2: ass because they've got bad leg and use a cane.

1941
01:50:46,000 --> 01:50:50,120
Speaker 2: But you know, mentally, I'm having totally tons of fun

1942
01:50:50,160 --> 01:50:51,920
Speaker 2: and enjoying it, I think, much more than I ever

1943
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:54,360
Speaker 2: have in a way. You know. I've got the kids around,

1944
01:50:54,400 --> 01:50:58,800
Speaker 2: which are wonderful to have that life and that engagement around.

1945
01:50:58,920 --> 01:51:02,040
Speaker 2: And I'm going to write another book. I'm going to

1946
01:51:02,080 --> 01:51:04,439
Speaker 2: try and write another book as soon as I got

1947
01:51:04,479 --> 01:51:08,600
Speaker 2: this one out, and mm hmm, just have me a

1948
01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:11,960
Speaker 2: great time to love listening to music and learning and

1949
01:51:12,080 --> 01:51:14,160
Speaker 2: listening to classical music a lot these days and really

1950
01:51:14,240 --> 01:51:18,439
Speaker 2: enjoying that enormously. Uh the new you know, I'll look

1951
01:51:18,439 --> 01:51:21,360
Speaker 2: forward to the new Rolling Stones record. Bottom way know

1952
01:51:21,479 --> 01:51:24,120
Speaker 2: is cooking one up, and Bob and all my favorites

1953
01:51:24,120 --> 01:51:27,160
Speaker 2: are got records going on. Bruce has got one in

1954
01:51:27,240 --> 01:51:30,080
Speaker 2: a can two he's working on right now. And uh

1955
01:51:31,960 --> 01:51:35,800
Speaker 2: so I'm fulfilled, you know, great marriage, and you know,

1956
01:51:36,040 --> 01:51:38,519
Speaker 2: watch my kids throve. It's wonderful. I've me a great time.

1957
01:51:39,280 --> 01:51:40,679
Speaker 1: How much do you listen to music?

1958
01:51:42,080 --> 01:51:47,000
Speaker 2: A lot a lot, But I don't listen togainst temporary music.

1959
01:51:47,640 --> 01:51:49,840
Speaker 2: You know, I listen to my old things. I love

1960
01:51:49,920 --> 01:51:51,880
Speaker 2: and the love for a long time, you know, I'll

1961
01:51:51,920 --> 01:51:53,760
Speaker 2: go on a kick and I'll listen to Mark Now

1962
01:51:53,880 --> 01:51:56,120
Speaker 2: for for three months, you know, and then I'll switch

1963
01:51:56,160 --> 01:51:57,320
Speaker 2: and say, oh, it's kind to go back to the

1964
01:51:57,360 --> 01:52:00,120
Speaker 2: early Rolling Stones, and it goes around around. This is

1965
01:52:00,320 --> 01:52:06,880
Speaker 2: Sergeant Peppers this weekend, and I mean, I forgot. It's huge.

1966
01:52:07,240 --> 01:52:08,360
Speaker 2: It's amazing record.

1967
01:52:09,080 --> 01:52:11,599
Speaker 1: You know, people have forgotten that talking about Abbey Rude,

1968
01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:14,200
Speaker 1: which I don't think is as good that the White Album,

1969
01:52:14,240 --> 01:52:17,160
Speaker 1: which is great and uneven. Sergeant Pepper was such a

1970
01:52:17,320 --> 01:52:20,720
Speaker 1: breakthrough in those songs, it's unreal.

1971
01:52:21,120 --> 01:52:24,479
Speaker 2: I mean, but go it. Yeah, listen to it, go

1972
01:52:24,600 --> 01:52:27,080
Speaker 2: back and listen to it carefully, and then you realize

1973
01:52:27,200 --> 01:52:31,200
Speaker 2: what was going on before this. Nothing like that was

1974
01:52:31,240 --> 01:52:34,280
Speaker 2: going on before. Those are other good songs and good players,

1975
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:39,040
Speaker 2: but nobody had composed this whole thoughtful thing good morning,

1976
01:52:39,080 --> 01:52:42,200
Speaker 2: good morning bad and you know it was genius.

1977
01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:46,920
Speaker 1: One forgets and also it was in retrospect such a

1978
01:52:47,040 --> 01:52:51,479
Speaker 1: short period of time. Yeah, So what do you use

1979
01:52:51,560 --> 01:52:54,080
Speaker 1: to listen to? You listening to vinyl, You listen to files,

1980
01:52:54,120 --> 01:52:56,040
Speaker 1: listen headphone speakers.

1981
01:52:55,840 --> 01:53:00,479
Speaker 2: Anything goes to the yearbuds. They're the easiest, most convene thing.

1982
01:53:00,960 --> 01:53:03,400
Speaker 2: I haven't used a pair of really high quality headphones

1983
01:53:03,400 --> 01:53:06,519
Speaker 2: in a long time. I just you know, can lay

1984
01:53:06,560 --> 01:53:09,800
Speaker 2: down and listen to music, you know what, I and

1985
01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:12,120
Speaker 2: anywhere and anyway. It's the quality is good enough for

1986
01:53:12,200 --> 01:53:15,560
Speaker 2: me because headphone quality is just in of itself. I

1987
01:53:16,040 --> 01:53:18,160
Speaker 2: this is what my latest happens. I go to sleep

1988
01:53:18,240 --> 01:53:21,960
Speaker 2: every night, but in Heaven's Melissa Roberson. I made it

1989
01:53:22,360 --> 01:53:27,080
Speaker 2: the next tape of roverson I Loves Unbelievable.

1990
01:53:28,800 --> 01:53:31,639
Speaker 1: You know, I think that's also being a little bit older. Crying.

1991
01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:34,280
Speaker 1: I was too young for crying. Pretty woman is really

1992
01:53:34,320 --> 01:53:38,880
Speaker 1: when I came in. And so tell me about your

1993
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:42,639
Speaker 1: two top pinch me moments meeting people.

1994
01:53:43,000 --> 01:53:45,599
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, Roy Everson, first of he had two

1995
01:53:45,680 --> 01:53:51,200
Speaker 2: records of the modern era, Mystery Girl and Mystery Girl

1996
01:53:51,360 --> 01:53:57,560
Speaker 2: and what was the othering? What they call it? Not

1997
01:53:57,720 --> 01:54:01,240
Speaker 2: California Blue. Anyway, this last two records. Got to get

1998
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:05,000
Speaker 2: those two records. Okay, they're produced in the modern way,

1999
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:08,799
Speaker 2: and so all the modern and instrumentation is more modern.

2000
01:54:08,960 --> 01:54:11,320
Speaker 2: And get a guitar players my mother. So their beautiful

2001
01:54:11,360 --> 01:54:13,760
Speaker 2: records have some great great songs on it, and if

2002
01:54:13,800 --> 01:54:16,080
Speaker 2: you like them on Traveling Little Berries, it's kind of

2003
01:54:16,280 --> 01:54:21,160
Speaker 2: like that, Okay, I urge you to get those records.

2004
01:54:21,640 --> 01:54:25,000
Speaker 1: Oh okay, just while you're on this top anything else.

2005
01:54:25,120 --> 01:54:27,920
Speaker 1: Personal favorites that are overlooked by me or other people.

2006
01:54:28,720 --> 01:54:32,040
Speaker 2: Oh, I can't. That's too long. That's way too long.

2007
01:54:32,440 --> 01:54:35,120
Speaker 2: And I have to know what you overlooked, because I'm

2008
01:54:36,680 --> 01:54:39,040
Speaker 2: most of my personal favorites are popular stuff anyway, because

2009
01:54:39,040 --> 01:54:41,480
Speaker 2: that the best stuff usually gets to be the most popular.

2010
01:54:42,160 --> 01:54:44,280
Speaker 2: But Roy, and then if you go back and listen

2011
01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:47,480
Speaker 2: to the classic Roy the late fifties and sixty seventies,

2012
01:54:49,360 --> 01:54:53,680
Speaker 2: his singing is unbelievable. He's good, his voice is matchless, peerless.

2013
01:54:54,400 --> 01:54:58,240
Speaker 2: But the arranging is so wonderfully classic and old fashioned

2014
01:54:58,280 --> 01:55:00,520
Speaker 2: and detailed, you know, in the amount of stuff that's

2015
01:55:00,600 --> 01:55:02,800
Speaker 2: in the track, and the way they use the strings,

2016
01:55:03,000 --> 01:55:06,360
Speaker 2: you know, and how soaring strings and the vocals it's

2017
01:55:06,480 --> 01:55:11,680
Speaker 2: just some fonic you mean, other beautiful Go listen carefully

2018
01:55:12,240 --> 01:55:14,120
Speaker 2: and then the whole thing. I find it very soft

2019
01:55:14,280 --> 01:55:18,200
Speaker 2: and in a way that it's smooth. That's soothing, as

2020
01:55:18,440 --> 01:55:22,000
Speaker 2: was what I find. You know, rock is jangling music.

2021
01:55:22,080 --> 01:55:25,600
Speaker 2: It's a hard music, things like the who you Know

2022
01:55:25,640 --> 01:55:28,320
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. I mean, I'm more into the

2023
01:55:28,360 --> 01:55:30,880
Speaker 2: ballady thing. That's why I love Mark Knolfler and our

2024
01:55:30,920 --> 01:55:34,200
Speaker 2: straits for that, and Bob does. It's a balancing anyway.

2025
01:55:37,240 --> 01:55:44,160
Speaker 2: But two tingling moments, I mean they're all tingling. You know.

2026
01:55:46,880 --> 01:55:48,920
Speaker 2: Bob gives me tingles, Mick gives me, I mean all,

2027
01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:51,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't you know they're tingling moments.

2028
01:55:51,680 --> 01:55:53,680
Speaker 1: How about a non musician, It's.

2029
01:55:53,600 --> 01:55:55,640
Speaker 2: Hard to say. I mean, I got so accustomed to

2030
01:55:56,880 --> 01:55:59,160
Speaker 2: meaning presidents that I don't get tingles out of that,

2031
01:56:00,160 --> 01:56:02,920
Speaker 2: you know, seeking the most of meeting people, I mean, god,

2032
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:06,160
Speaker 2: you know, Bob, John Lennon, Mick.

2033
01:56:07,480 --> 01:56:09,920
Speaker 1: Okay, so do you have the same access, do you

2034
01:56:10,120 --> 01:56:12,800
Speaker 1: miss access? Do you care about access?

2035
01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:18,840
Speaker 2: I do. I have the same access. But those people,

2036
01:56:18,880 --> 01:56:24,560
Speaker 2: as I've always had, they are friends and colleagues. I mean,

2037
01:56:27,760 --> 01:56:34,320
Speaker 2: you know they you know, with Bono with their family,

2038
01:56:34,360 --> 01:56:38,000
Speaker 2: his family, and with the Springsteens, a very family relationship

2039
01:56:38,080 --> 01:56:41,280
Speaker 2: with those people. You know, they're you know, our families

2040
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:43,320
Speaker 2: are involved with each other. We're involved with our kids

2041
01:56:43,400 --> 01:56:47,560
Speaker 2: and our vacations. You know, our social lives are entwined.

2042
01:56:48,240 --> 01:56:53,280
Speaker 2: You know, really they're younger, but they're like I don't know,

2043
01:56:54,440 --> 01:56:58,360
Speaker 2: for years, you know, up until recently, Uh, you know,

2044
01:56:58,400 --> 01:57:04,919
Speaker 2: we're deeply involved with Yoko and Sean. I'm Sean's godfather,

2045
01:57:05,560 --> 01:57:08,840
Speaker 2: Sean Yoga's godfather, and one of my kids, Shawn has

2046
01:57:08,880 --> 01:57:12,840
Speaker 2: got other to one of my younger kids. And Mick

2047
01:57:13,320 --> 01:57:15,840
Speaker 2: I just had lunch with me a couple of weeks ago. Month,

2048
01:57:16,200 --> 01:57:18,720
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago. So I mean I'm in

2049
01:57:18,880 --> 01:57:21,960
Speaker 2: regular contact with everybody. I mean, Bob's not a social

2050
01:57:22,080 --> 01:57:26,240
Speaker 2: be and Pete is I don't Pete, I don't see.

2051
01:57:26,880 --> 01:57:29,680
Speaker 2: But the rest of the do Are you regularly a

2052
01:57:30,240 --> 01:57:30,960
Speaker 2: social being?

2053
01:57:31,040 --> 01:57:33,160
Speaker 1: An extrovert or moore of an introvert? Want to be

2054
01:57:33,240 --> 01:57:34,680
Speaker 1: home reading both?

2055
01:57:37,880 --> 01:57:38,600
Speaker 2: I love them both?

2056
01:57:39,800 --> 01:57:43,040
Speaker 1: And to what you wrote an autobiography. Now you have

2057
01:57:43,280 --> 01:57:45,920
Speaker 1: this interview book you're talking about another book. To what

2058
01:57:46,160 --> 01:57:48,440
Speaker 1: degree are you concerned about legacy?

2059
01:57:50,080 --> 01:57:52,960
Speaker 2: I don't pay attention to it that much. Yeah, it's

2060
01:57:53,000 --> 01:57:57,920
Speaker 2: not and it's not my issue. My issue is raising

2061
01:57:58,000 --> 01:58:02,240
Speaker 2: the kids and by myself. Now you know, let me

2062
01:58:02,320 --> 01:58:05,680
Speaker 2: a good, fruitful, productive life now, doing what I can

2063
01:58:06,520 --> 01:58:11,440
Speaker 2: to help people, trying to stay healthy and get bring

2064
01:58:11,880 --> 01:58:13,080
Speaker 2: happy is my life and others.

2065
01:58:15,240 --> 01:58:17,400
Speaker 1: Okay, Yoan, I want to thank you. As far as

2066
01:58:17,480 --> 01:58:20,680
Speaker 1: the book, the only interview I hadn't read was the

2067
01:58:20,800 --> 01:58:26,760
Speaker 1: first with Townsend, and it's really very interesting to see

2068
01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:30,320
Speaker 1: the insight and the intelligence of the different people. I mean,

2069
01:58:30,840 --> 01:58:34,440
Speaker 1: Dylan certainly comes across as intelligent. They all have different

2070
01:58:34,480 --> 01:58:40,080
Speaker 1: personalities and whatever the reason behind making the book, it's

2071
01:58:40,200 --> 01:58:43,320
Speaker 1: no hype that when you sit there, it really brings

2072
01:58:43,480 --> 01:58:47,040
Speaker 1: back the era. You know, sets the constellation right. I

2073
01:58:47,240 --> 01:58:49,760
Speaker 1: was surprised, not that because I thought it'd be negative,

2074
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:53,520
Speaker 1: but everyone's publishing a book, but it really brought the

2075
01:58:53,800 --> 01:58:57,680
Speaker 1: era and the people were part of the era alive.

2076
01:58:59,680 --> 01:59:02,840
Speaker 2: It's it's a way, it's a real history as well

2077
01:59:02,960 --> 01:59:06,480
Speaker 2: just an anthology collection. When I did it and read off,

2078
01:59:06,520 --> 01:59:09,640
Speaker 2: it was just shocked by how much good stuff is,

2079
01:59:09,680 --> 01:59:11,720
Speaker 2: how much people really spoke their mind. I mean, it

2080
01:59:11,800 --> 01:59:14,360
Speaker 2: had been years since I've read these things, and what

2081
01:59:14,600 --> 01:59:16,960
Speaker 2: was really there, I mean it was you don't get

2082
01:59:17,000 --> 01:59:20,080
Speaker 2: this at all today, And added all up, I felt

2083
01:59:20,080 --> 01:59:23,560
Speaker 2: that I'd taken a trip to my life until next time.

2084
01:59:23,960 --> 01:59:25,360
Speaker 1: This is Bob left Stets