1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 2 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: My guest is the one and only Harvey Fire Steve, 3 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: who's got a brand new memoir. I was better last night, Harvey. 4 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: Why did you write it because of COVID? Had nothing 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: else to do. I'm sitting at home. They shut down 6 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: the theaters, they shut everything down. I'm sitting at home. 7 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: I said, well, I owe a couple of quilts. I 8 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: make quilts, as you might know from reading the book. 9 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: So I said, I owe a wedding quilt. I owe 10 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: a baby quilt. So I said, let me just go 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: ahead and make these quilts and catch up, which was great. 12 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: I made five quilts in a row. It was great. 13 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: Everyone loved their quilts. Who doesn't love a nice quilt, 14 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: because you know, as opposed to give him somebody a painting. 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: You give somebody a painting, they gotta put it on 16 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: the wall, They got to throw it in the closet 17 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: when you're not there. You know, they gotta hide it 18 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: under the bed or something. But you give him the quilt, 19 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: you let the dog lay in and if you hate it, 20 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: you know, you put it in the car and land 21 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: and use it in the back of the car for 22 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: when people get cold, they faded and if they love it, 23 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: they put it on the bed. So everybody loves the quilt. 24 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no, no, no, slow down. How 25 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: did you get into quilting? And how long does it 26 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: take to make one quilt? Oh? Usually I can turn 27 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: out too quilts a year, but with COVID and nothing 28 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: else to do, I was just putting out. Um and 29 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: how did I get into quilting? A show on PBS. 30 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: There was a show on PBS many years ago about sewing, 31 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: and um. I always was sort of interested in sewing. 32 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: My father sewed because he was in the business of 33 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: how he was in the baggage of business. He was 34 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: in the schmount To trade. He he managed a factory 35 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,119 Speaker 1: for the Guinea family, the miss Rockies and the Guineas, 36 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: and so he knew how to sew. We had a 37 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: professional sewing machine in our basement. My mother sewed. UM. 38 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: I always thought it was kind of cool. Maybe you 39 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: could make a piece of clothing or something. I don't know. Anyway, 40 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: I started watching a sewing program and all of a sudden, 41 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: I'm making quilts, which was a lot of fun. Um, 42 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: and I've been doing it's close to thirty years. Okay, 43 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: so in thirty years, what you learn now that you 44 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: didn't know that? In terms of making quilts, Um, you 45 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: start out. When you start out, you do those traditional 46 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: quilts and the traditional pattern he cut triangles and stuff 47 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: like that as you go along. Well, also the the 48 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: whole art quilt movement that has changed. There's a whole 49 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 1: art quilt movement now. Um people do incredible work. Um, 50 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: stuff that's never meant to be on the bed. It's 51 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: meant to be on wall, and so it's totally freeing 52 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: this this. I don't die fabric, but many people die fabric. 53 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: People paint on fabric, people use three dimensional stuff and 54 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: all that I don't do. I'm I'm like, put it 55 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: on the bed. People want something to put on the bed. 56 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: I put it on the bed. The wildest I ever 57 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: do is I'll make matching pillowcases. Oh, matching pillow gaze. 58 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: My nephew just called me and said, can I get 59 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: matching pillow gases for this? And I said, sorry, no, 60 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: you gotta get in line. Okay, when you do quiote, 61 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: how long will you quote it one time? And will 62 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: you multitask watch TV? Or is it to require complete concentration. No. 63 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: I used to leave the TV on all the time, 64 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: and I found I wasn't really listening to it or 65 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: watching it or anything. So why bother? So it doesn't 66 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: really matter. I do turn the TV on, but it 67 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: really doesn't matter. You get into a whole rhythm. Now. 68 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: Remember I'm not I'm not quilting by hand. I'm quilting 69 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: by machine. So you're cutting fabric, You're you're falling in 70 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: love with different fabrics, you're putting fabrics together. Okay, so 71 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: lockdown begins. You're quilting. You find you have a lot 72 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: of time on your hands. How do you end up 73 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: writing the memoir? An agent said to me when I said, 74 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: I'm going to kill myself. I can't take another quilt. 75 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 1: I've delivered by five quilts, and and I must say, 76 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 1: three years later, I still have two more quilts cut 77 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: out on my tables downstairs, waiting to be sowed. But 78 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: I just had had enough um and I said to 79 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 1: my agent, you know, is this gonna end? And he 80 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: said probably not. Why don't you write your memoir? And 81 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,799 Speaker 1: I said, I don't write prose. I mean I write articles. 82 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: I write opinion piece and stuff like that, but a 83 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: book is like it's a book. I said, I don't write, 84 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: and he said, well, why don't you try? And I thought, yeah, 85 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: why don't you? What the funk? No one's gonna know. Uh. 86 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: And and with the computer and all that, you don't 87 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: have to get the spelling right. And and if you 88 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: get editor, he'll fix what you what you can't say right? 89 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: Try it. So I sat down and I wrote, um, 90 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 1: not not what the preface is, but you. But in 91 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: the very first chapter, I tell a story about being 92 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,679 Speaker 1: in third grade or second grade. I think, um, where 93 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: where we were doing Sleeping Beauty? And I tell and 94 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: I and I told that story. I wrote that story 95 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: out phil Amina, who played the wicked witch in in 96 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: Sleeping Beauty. She and I are still friends. I don't 97 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: give up friends, eazy. They gotta die on me, that's 98 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: or or say something nasty, nasty and death. Those are 99 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: the ways out. So Philomina and I are still friends, 100 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: you know. Sixties something years later. And I take that 101 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: little story and I sent it to Philomena, figuring she'll 102 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: get a laugh out of it. In return, she sent 103 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: me the photograph that's in the book of of Me 104 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: and Drag, which is what the story was about getting 105 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: into dragons seven years old? And UM, I said, if 106 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: she kept that photograph for all these years and that 107 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: story was important enough for her to remember and me 108 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: to remember, it might mean something to somebody else, I'm 109 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: going to keep going. So I kept going. I wrote 110 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: probably three chapters, four chapters, gave it to my agent. 111 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: My agent gave it to a literary agent, who said, 112 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: this is good. I said, what do you know? I 113 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: could write? You know, well, do you know Tony Awards 114 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: didn't necessarily have to write? Uh? There was there was, Uh, 115 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: there was the best musical, the best book of a musical. 116 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: Once went to UM a show that had no dialogue 117 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: at all. It was it was an all Dan show. 118 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: I forget what the name of the show, but uh, 119 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: you gotta so. Uh. She sent it out to like 120 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: nine publishers, and every one of them made a bid 121 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: to buy it somebody, you know. So I I picked 122 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: an editor that I thought would be the right editor. 123 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: I picked the guy who edited the two big Stephen 124 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: Sondheim volumes of lyrics. I figured, if he's good enough 125 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: for Steve, he's good enough Harvey and uh. And I 126 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: also liked other works of his. But that's really how 127 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: I saw it. And he was and he's with Coop, 128 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: and you can't really do better than connob though they 129 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: they paid the least of all the offers, but you know, 130 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: it's only money. So that's how I chose him. And 131 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: he turned out to be a fabulous editor who basically 132 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: just kept saying, go, go, go, go go. He changed 133 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: very little in the in the book, made one or 134 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: two suggestions. I mean literally, he was just this wonderful, 135 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: wonderful cheerleader for me, um to just keep me going. 136 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: And uh, I got this book, which turned out to 137 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: be a New York Times best seller, hit me with 138 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: a brick. So you talked about the computer correcting, spelling, etcetera. 139 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: When you wrote it. How much did the editor change, 140 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: like construction intense or was it really pretty much the 141 00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: way you wrote it? It's the way I wrote it. 142 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: It's it was really sort of surprising, I think because 143 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: I used the theatrical mindset writing it. I used how 144 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: I would tell a story in a play or a movie, 145 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: so um so that gave me the structure. I allowed 146 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: each chapter to be its own story. I mean, it's 147 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: not an anthology by any means, but I allowed it 148 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: each one to stand on their own, hopefully. UM. The 149 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: only structural thing he wanted to change was there's a 150 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: story at the end of the book about my mother 151 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: and I that he wanted me that that took place 152 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: when I was fourteen. He wanted me to put it 153 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the book when I was fourteen, 154 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: and I said, no, you're you're, you're, You're wrong. It 155 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: belongs where it is. It's it's um because it was 156 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: actually inspired by something that happened between my brother and 157 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: I in present time, and and I knew that that 158 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: was the way that I wanted to end the book. 159 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: I wanted that memory. I wanted that that memory between 160 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: my brother and I, that memory between my mother and I, 161 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: to bring me to that moment um, which I thought 162 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: was a good ending for the book. Now, a book, 163 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: to write, the whole book is not something you can 164 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: do in a day. But when you wrote this memoir, 165 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: which of course reflects your life, which is linear with 166 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: ups and downs. When you do your creative work and 167 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: you do this book, do you start out not knowing 168 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: where you're going to go? Or do you have the 169 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: bones of it and you're just filling in having never 170 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: written this stuff before. Um, I had no idea none. 171 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: I knew my life, I knew I knew where I 172 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: was born, and I knew where I was at the 173 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: present moment, and I knew most of what I remembered 174 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: a lot of what went on between. So I guess 175 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: that means you know the structure in some way. But no, 176 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: I didn't know what stories there was several. What I 177 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: would do is I would sit down at the computer 178 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: every day and write a chapter. I basically wrote a 179 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: chapter a day. Um, sometimes they went back and edit it, 180 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: but but I basically wrote one of those chapters every day. 181 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: And I think, how many chapters are in this stupid thing? Uh? 182 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: Too many? There are fifty nine chapters, so so you know, 183 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: at least two months. But I probably probably took me 184 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: about four months to write, which still is pretty fast. 185 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: But when there's nothing else going on in the world, 186 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,719 Speaker 1: you know, it was the most exciting. I started it 187 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: during the summer, so I did have friends come over 188 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: to visit because we could see outside. You know, you 189 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: couldn't have people in the house because and everybody had 190 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: you know, we rolled lepers and stuff. It was like 191 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: a scene at a ben her with her mother and 192 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 1: sister hiding behind the stone the lepers. But um, so 193 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: I still had friends come over for play dates with 194 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: the dogs and stuff like that. But other than that, 195 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: there was shopping for food, and there was cooking, and 196 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: there was the computer and I guess streaming television. Okay, 197 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: so you finished the book. You're deep in the groove. 198 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,839 Speaker 1: Now when you're finished and it's done, it's going to 199 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: be exposed to the public. Were you anxious about that? 200 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: Did you said, well, maybe it's not that good, or 201 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: he said, no, this is great. Everyone's gonna love it. Um, 202 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: I've written enough stuff. I'm seventy years old. I've been writing, 203 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: even though I never wanted to be a writer. I've 204 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: been writing since I was twenties. So it's fifty years 205 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: of putting yourself out there. Um, people are gonna think 206 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: what they're gonna think. There's people who are gonna love 207 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: what you write, and these people who are gonna hate 208 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 1: what you write. And I'm more than used to that, 209 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: so I I really try not to judge that. If 210 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: I want to put something out, if I feel it's 211 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: true and I'm gonna put it out, I put it out. 212 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: I don't read reviews anymore. I used to read reviews, 213 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: and they didn't do me any good. Um, they only 214 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: heard and um, because you never remember the good ones, 215 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: you only remember the bad ones. And so uh, I 216 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: changed names. I did right to several people and say, 217 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: I've written this memoir, I've written about you. Do you 218 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: want me to use your real name? I'm more than 219 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: willing to change names, and like people I don't talk to, 220 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: I changed their names. But there were there were a 221 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: couple of excellent overs that wanted their names used. Um. 222 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: In fact, one of them doesn't speak to me anymore. 223 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: I used his real name and he stopped speaking to me. 224 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: But he told me to please use his real name. 225 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: So I think there's a difference. I think I would 226 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: if I didn't it over again. I just change everybody's 227 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: name because I signed on to tell my truth. They didn't. 228 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: I signed on to tell my story they didn't, And 229 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: of course my story about them is going to be 230 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: different than they remember it, so it only makes sense 231 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: to allow them that fictionalized cover. Okay, so a book 232 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: is a different artwork from a player a movie in 233 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: terms of promotion. In the sales arc, what was that 234 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: like doing that for the first time. It was very 235 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: low pressure because didn't know anything about it. You know, 236 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: I published plays. There are books out of my plays, 237 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: but I don't have to do anything. They sell them 238 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: in the lobby, or they sell them at theater, book stuffs. 239 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: You know, it's nothing you have to do. So I 240 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: was very curious, especially since COVID was going on and 241 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: I had very little else to do. I was very 242 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: curious as to what it would be like to sell 243 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: the book and and and do all that stuff. There's 244 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff to do, a lot of interviews, 245 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: but most of them were on Zoom, which is why 246 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: I'm I'm pretty good at zoom and well, I think 247 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: we all have gotten so good at zoom and Uh. 248 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: I did do some book signings that were fun. I 249 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: did some personal appearances that have been fun. Uh. I 250 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: don't think I read. I read a few. You know, 251 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: here's what I say about reviews. You don't really have 252 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: to read them. If they're bad, your friends will call 253 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: it tell you. If they're good, you'll see them in 254 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: the ad. You know. It's like, I go to Amazon 255 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: and they got all those quotes about the book, so 256 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: I didn't have to read any of those reviews. Uh, 257 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: they're They're all there. And as far and like I said, 258 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: as far as the bad ones, your friends will called. 259 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: I don't know how he said that you're so stupid, 260 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: because I don't think you're so stupid. I get it, okay. Also, 261 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: there's an audio version. Tell me about the creation of that. 262 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: And uh, because a lot of people listen to books 263 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: on tape, as they say, even though it's no longer 264 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: any tape, that was a That was the challenge that 265 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: I knew I was going to have to face. I 266 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: do voices, and I do narration for movies. I've I've 267 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: done the narration for several films, including the Academy Award 268 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: winning Times of Harvey Milk and and a few other 269 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: and I do voices of cartoons and stuff. So I'm 270 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: comfortable doing voice over work. The first book that I 271 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 1: did was my play Bella Bella about Bella abzug Um. 272 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: We did a recording of the entire play. It's a 273 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: one person play, and so I did that recording. So 274 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: I was that that is the background, but I already 275 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: had that memorized, so I had the pages in front 276 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 1: of me and I could read from the page, but 277 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: it was already memorized. I'm very dyslexic. As I say 278 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: in the book. The idea of sitting down and reading 279 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: an entire book, especially UH fifty nine chapter book, was 280 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: really frightening to me. So I said, could we get 281 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: a studio that was low pressure, which I thought meant, 282 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: don't go into the city to and go into that 283 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: evil city of New York because they're they're used to that, 284 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: They're used to people being very professional and reading. And 285 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: I lucked out. And they found this fabulous guy who 286 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: has a beautiful Victorian painted lady about half hour from 287 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: me ah and in his guesthouse slash garage, he's built 288 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: this beautiful studio where he does all kinds of recordings 289 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: and all kinds of celebrities have recorded their books there 290 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: and it's just you and him and no pressure because 291 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: he'll put in as many days as it takes. So 292 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: I think they told me I should figure on three 293 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: to four days to do the book. It took me six, 294 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,439 Speaker 1: because like I said, I'm so dyslexic, but I just 295 00:18:54,520 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: took my time and did it. Um. The only there 296 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: was it was all manageable. Even the sad stuff was manageable. 297 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: There was one section that I read aloud and I 298 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: had to leave the building, and for the life of me, 299 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was, but I will remember 300 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: what it was. I read that section and I had 301 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: to leave. Um. I became very emotional, which I had 302 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: already lived through writing the book and editing it. So 303 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: I sort of shocked myself, UM to have that kind 304 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,959 Speaker 1: of reaction. And like I said, at this moment, I 305 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: can't even think what it was. And it's not something 306 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: that that would knock out a reader. A reader would 307 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: understand what I was saying in that section, but to me, 308 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: it just it just ripped me apart when I read 309 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: it out loud. Okay, many cases they have people who 310 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: were professionals who that's what they do, read books for, 311 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, and then the other things. You are a performer, 312 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: both naturally and in front of the camera and on stage. 313 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: So when you approach the book, did you view it 314 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: as a performance? What attitude did you bring into the 315 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: reading of it. I thought the way to do it 316 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: is to just be as honest as I could be. 317 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: Just be like you and me talking here, not for 318 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: public consumption, not big, but just the two of us talking, 319 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: I'm telling you this story, and and that's what I 320 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: wanted it to sound like. I wanted it to sound 321 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: like I was sitting in your car, because I think 322 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,479 Speaker 1: most people listen to these things in the car, and 323 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: I wanted you to feel I was sitting in your 324 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: in your passenger seats, saying, oh wait, I gotta tell 325 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: you this story. And that's what I wanted it to 326 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: sound like. And so that's that's what I went for. 327 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: Um now, and then I did a little bit of 328 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: a car out to voice, you know, if I was 329 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: doing an invitation of somebody, which I don't do very much, 330 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 1: but but I did because I also feel that I'm 331 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: not exactly positive that I would get every word right 332 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: if I quoted somebody, so I didn't. I tried to 333 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: give you an impression of what someone said, rather than 334 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: actually put words in their mouths unless they were already dead. Okay, 335 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: have you got I know you don't read your reviews, 336 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: but you've got any specific feedback from friends, family, other 337 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: maybe unknown people who reach out to you about the 338 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: audio version as opposed to the reprinted version. No, my friends, 339 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: my friends all read the book because it was done 340 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: way before the audio version, so then I know. But 341 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: thanks to social media, you get strangers writing to you, 342 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: and I know, and I get a lot of comments 343 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: from people that read the book. I have that listened 344 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: to the book, and even a lot of people who 345 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: say they read the book while listening to the book, 346 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: which I found really interesting. That's, I guess, a very 347 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: fully immersive way to do that. But but never a 348 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: negative word. Knock wood, knock wood. I have not, They 349 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: have not written to me a negative word. I'm sure 350 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: this this is a world of negativity, so I'm sure 351 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: that's negative out there, but not to me. Okay, how 352 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: much do you participate on social media? Both surfing yourself, posting, 353 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: interacting with people you don't know. I don't serve myself 354 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: because I'll find myself. And like I said, it's like 355 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: reading reviews. You don't want to go looking for trouble. 356 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: Life is hard enough without looking for trouble. It's like 357 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: look walking down the street and saying, there's not a 358 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: mugger on this block. Let me walk on the next block. 359 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: Maybe I can find a mugger. You like, I'm looking 360 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: for a mugger. So no, I don't do that, but 361 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: I am on I joined them all for different reasons. 362 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: But I'm on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram. I was 363 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: on TikTok for a moment or two, but I don't 364 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 1: think I ever posted anything, and I was even They 365 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: even made me join LinkedIn because these are tools to 366 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 1: sell the book to, you know, to help, and I 367 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: had and I have a website which hasn't been updated 368 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: in six months and nights whatever, But that was also 369 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: to help. So I did all that stuff they told 370 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: me has to be done. Um, I mostly Facebook. I 371 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 1: do do with friends I belonged to. I mean, I 372 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: have friends that we follow each other and we write 373 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: about our dog. You know. I belong to a Liam 374 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: Burger page because I have a Liemburger, right, I got 375 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: follow other friends and stuff like that. On Instagram, I 376 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: mostly follow friends, but I mostly post stuff about my 377 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: shows coming up. It's advertising, it's it's sharing dates and 378 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Okay, you're a gay icon. Many people 379 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: look up to you. If someone you does it? How 380 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: reachable are you by the Holy eploy? People who are 381 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 1: not either household names themselves. You haven't met someone posts 382 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: a response to something you write. Is the public too dangerous? 383 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: Or are you open I'm pretty open um. It depends 384 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: on how it would get to me. I mean mostly 385 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: when people post something to me on Facebook or on 386 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: Instagram or one of those things, they're they're usually nice. 387 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: I will hear her about there's a controversy. Oh, kinky boots, 388 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: kinky boots. Um, I just had, I just had a 389 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: I dinner thing for page six. Well, Ginky Boots has 390 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: been brought back off Broadway, which I absolutely love because 391 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: the theater is smaller, so the audience is closer. I 392 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: come from off Broadway, you know, I come from that world, 393 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: so it's a smaller theater. There's no balcony in your way, 394 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: there's no bounce off of balcony for sound. The sound 395 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: in that place is gorgeous. Even Cyndi Lauper, who I 396 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: get so scared to let her in the theater because 397 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: she hates hours how her song sound. Even she's happy 398 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: with the sound in that theater. And like I said, 399 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: you can see from every seat because there's no balcony, 400 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: there's no So I'm really happy with the show off Broadway. 401 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: But I didn't interview um where I said that if 402 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: they make the movie. They were asking me who I 403 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: would put in the movie. I said, well, when I 404 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,239 Speaker 1: wrote the show and years ago, it would have been 405 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: different people. These are young people, but right now I 406 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: would put Harry Styles and Bruno Mars pick two names 407 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: out of nowhere. Well, that explode, I mean, the headlines 408 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: across the universe. But what's really funny to me is 409 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: that some of the argument is Harvey Fierstein casting heterosexual 410 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: men to play gay roles. They're okay, neither one is gay. 411 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: Charlie is heterosexual, and the drag queen is a heterosexual 412 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: cross stress her. He's very clear. The whole second act 413 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 1: opens with a big number called what a Woman Wants 414 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: about I am what a woman wants ah, And they 415 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: were like tearing me apart that I'd want a heterosexual 416 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: in that role. So that stuff cracks me up. And 417 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: then and then you're on. There were a bunch of 418 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: comments like that, and then it said, well, in Harvey 419 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: fire Stein's opinion, he's heterosexual, Well whose opinion to be? 420 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: I wrote it. In fact, what those idiots don't know, 421 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: I'll tell you the truth. What those people don't know 422 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: is that that character, which comes from the movie, the 423 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: English movie that I adapted to make the musical. He 424 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: took that. The writer of the movie took that character 425 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: from a novel about that made a movie you might remember, 426 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: starring Simon senor A called Madame Rosa. Yeah, sure, Madame Rosa, 427 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: the next prostitute. She'd been in in Auschwitz. Now she 428 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: took care of other people's children. Well, her next door 429 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: neighbor is a transvestite, well actually a transsexual waiting to 430 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: have an operation, an xboxer whose father made him be 431 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 1: a boxer so he would toughen him up. The whole 432 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: character was taken from that novel and putting Kinky boots, 433 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: and then I did an adaptation of that character from 434 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: My Kinky Boots. So these people who are telling me 435 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: I'm wrong don't even know where this came from. But 436 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: that's what I like about stupidity. There's no end of stupidity. 437 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: If you don't stop and ask a question, you're gonna 438 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: stay stupid the rest of your life. And the biggest, 439 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: the biggest enemy of art in every way is prejudice. 440 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: I say in the book. I think it's in the book. Um, 441 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: if you go into a gallery thinking you know what 442 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: a Picasso looks like, I guarantee you will never see 443 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: a Picasso if you if you're gonna go looking for 444 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: what is familiar to you as a Picasso, you'll never 445 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: see what else he painted in that picture. You'll never 446 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: see what else he did. And that's the truth about 447 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: any art. If you walk in thinking you know what 448 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: it should be, you'll never see what it is. And 449 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: that's my problem with critics. Critics think they have to 450 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: be the smartest person in the room. They go to 451 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: see a show. They come in with the history of 452 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: the songwriter, of the book, writer of the subject matter, 453 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: of the distance that they know every Broadway show that 454 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: was ever done, and they come in with all of 455 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: this knowledge to tell you where you fit in. But 456 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: they've walked in with so much prejudice. The only thing 457 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: they haven't come in with is the ticket they paid for, 458 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: which makes a difference. Which makes a difference. They also 459 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: have not come to have a good night out. They've 460 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: come to work. It's not the same experience as an audience, 461 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: not the same experience as an audience that's come to 462 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: have an experience and love what they're seeing. They don't 463 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: buy a ticket to not like it. Some critics too. 464 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: There's a very famous New York critic whose name I 465 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: will not mention. You know, if you're gonna get a 466 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: good reviewer a bad review when he comes into the theater. 467 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: If he brings his beard with him, you're going to 468 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: get a bad review. If he brings his young nephew 469 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: with him, you're going to get a good review. Listen, 470 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: I tell you know, just you know, I talk about 471 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: concerts your brother, in my in me or in that business. 472 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: I don't want to hear a review from someone who's 473 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: not a fan of the act. The people who pay 474 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: what was their experience, people who wanted to like, the 475 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: people who wanted to be there, or the person who's 476 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: never been there before, and it's having that first experience, right, 477 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: I know, thanks to radio and recordings and all that, 478 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: that doesn't happen all that much. We usually buy a 479 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: ticket because we know who the person is. I was 480 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: watching last night, I loved it on the news. Last 481 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: night was the opening of the metric of the season 482 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: at the Metropolitan Opera. So they broadcasted in Times Square 483 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: on the giant screens, and they put out two thousand 484 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: chairs and two thousand people sat, many of whom had 485 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: never seen an opera before. And watched Madeia. Of all 486 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: operas to watch Madeya killing their kids off um and 487 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: they just one woman said, I always nod out in 488 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: the theater. I didn't not out. I sat near the 489 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,479 Speaker 1: whole thing and loved every minute of it. You know, 490 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: being exposed to something like that for the first time, 491 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: it is so wonderful. Now think of that in terms 492 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: of the critic who's walking in having heard calluses Madeia 493 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: and having heard controbusious Madea and you know, in fifty 494 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: recordings of Madeia and seeing forty eight productions of Madeia 495 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: and this one's direction of it and that one's, and 496 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: they're walking in with all of this prejudice of what 497 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: they think Madea should be. Who would you rather hear 498 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: from that woman who said I've never seen nothing like 499 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: this before in my life. Well, this guy who's going 500 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: to tell you how she didn't hit that either way 501 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: she should have hit the e were you on this 502 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: recording from that? He was hit much better? Okay, I 503 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: see you on screen in your office, highly designed, uh 504 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:26,479 Speaker 1: full of highly designed all wait wait wait wait wait 505 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: let me no, no one can see it anyway. It's 506 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: got nothing to do with the question. I'm asking. My 507 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: point is, you appear to be living a nice lifestyle. 508 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: How do you feel about living alone at this point, 509 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: which begs the question of why you're alone? If you've 510 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: not met the right person, are you ultimately difficult to 511 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: have a relationship with? What do you think about all that? Well, 512 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: I built this house. I've been here. I've been here 513 00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: since four but I tore the house down seventeen years ago. 514 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: It was falling apart. It was either put a lot 515 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: of money into fixing the old house that was here 516 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: or just tear it down. So I tore it down because, 517 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: as you can see behind me, I collect folk art 518 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: and outsider art. I like art create. You know, I 519 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: have a degree in painting, but I don't well, I 520 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: do have a collection of of real of a real artist, 521 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: but I love outsider art. I love people that have 522 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: to create that it comes out of a place inside them. 523 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: They have had a painting lesson in their life, a 524 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: carving lesson. I mean the that lamp you see behind me. 525 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: See there's a woman there with a light bulb. I 526 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: have twelve of his lamps. He's a lifetimer in prison. 527 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: He makes those lamps in prison. They all look exactly alike. 528 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: They all have blond hair and blue eyes, and they 529 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: and he makes the clothing out of sleeves from from 530 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: T shirts and stuff like that. And yet he carves 531 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: the name or paints the name in each one. That 532 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: one there, that blonde hair, blue eye is Tina Turner. Oh, 533 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: look exactly. His Hillary Clinton looks exactly like Tina Journal. 534 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 1: It's exactly like like, Um, I mean, they're all, they're 535 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: all what's but it's he's a lifetime in prison. The 536 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,879 Speaker 1: above what you can't see those two you see those 537 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: two big frame pieces the wall hall drawings, um, you know, 538 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 1: in preparation to do silk screens. The one on this 539 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: side is of Wilhelmina Ross, who is a drag queen 540 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: who starred in two of my very first place that 541 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: I wrote. We were friends before war Hall discovered her 542 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: and all that. So my collection is stuff like that. So, yes, 543 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,399 Speaker 1: I live in a barn that my office is sort 544 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: of the hay loft, and I designed this place with 545 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: no walls. Um. I basically designed it for one person. 546 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 1: There are guest rooms on the on the other side 547 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: there's guest rooms my but I can close off my 548 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: bedroom and just have my world and they can be 549 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: in the house. I did that because I sort of 550 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 1: came to a realization in my life that I'm just 551 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: not good at relationships. I love men, and I love 552 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: playing with men, and I love romance, and I love 553 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: sex and I love the physicality. I just not good 554 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 1: at relationships. I lose myself completely in a relationship. The 555 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: very first thing I'm willing to do is give myself up. 556 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: Nobody wants a cipher, but that's what I turned myself into. 557 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: I just become like whatever for you. It's stupid, it's bad, 558 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: it doesn't work. Um. And so I stopped doing it. 559 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,720 Speaker 1: I stopped doing I had, you know, the book certainly 560 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:13,439 Speaker 1: numbers mess of my relationships, and I do mean mess um. 561 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: And then there's a lot more. I was actually I was. 562 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: Actually My editor sent to me, so what about the 563 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: next book? What is that gonna be? And I said, well, 564 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: I could write a book about all the boyfriends I 565 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: didn't talk about. I said, I even have a title 566 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: for it, bottomless. Okay, okay, you have so much self knowledge. 567 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: Have you been in therapy? No, but let me say this, 568 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: any gay person has been through therapy. When you're a 569 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: child you're you mostly brought into a family. Most children, 570 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,800 Speaker 1: lucky children are brought into a family. As you learned 571 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: language and really ships and all that, you look and 572 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,879 Speaker 1: see where you belong. Oh, this is what a daddy does, 573 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 1: This is what a mommy does, This is what a 574 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: brother does. This is and you find yourself in that. 575 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: A gay child goes through that process and goes, uh, 576 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: don't feel that way. I don't feel like that boys 577 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: and feeling or young lesbians. If I don't feel like 578 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 1: that girl is feeling, I have very difference. So they 579 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: go back and they do the math all over again, 580 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 1: and they do and they study themselves and they go, Okay, 581 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: I fit here, I fit here, I feel you I 582 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: don't fit there. So that's called the act of coming out. 583 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: Coming out. This is coming out in public, but this 584 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: is coming out to yourself. Every gay child, and I 585 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: would add transgender and questioning has been through self analysis. 586 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: They have to because they've got to figure out what 587 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: the hell they are in this world and how they 588 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: fit in. So most gay kids, transgender kids, whatever, have 589 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: so much more self knowledge than any heterosexual will have 590 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,359 Speaker 1: with twenty you know, than what do you allen have? 591 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: After a hundred and forty years of therapy, because we've 592 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: gone that deep in ourselves. What is it that's making 593 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: me attracted to that person? What do I want? This 594 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 1: so much going on there? So you ask where do 595 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: you get yourself knowledge? I think I have the same 596 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 1: self knowledge that many of the gay people do. Okay, 597 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 1: and uh, but you have so much self knowledge about relationships. 598 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: How you lose yourself with the other person. If but 599 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:54,280 Speaker 1: I would think the desire does not evaporate. So theoretically, 600 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: if someone or through some process could help you in 601 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: a relationship not to who's yourself. Is it that you're 602 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: seventy years old and you say I don't want to 603 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:09,839 Speaker 1: change or you don't believe that could happen? No, no, no, 604 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: I um this this this. I have a gentleman caller, 605 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 1: I have don't feel bad for blacks dubois. I have 606 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: a gentleman caller. I don't. I don't live without. I'm 607 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: not I'm not a eunuch. Um so I just don't. 608 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: I'm just not looking for at this moment, I have 609 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: never met the person that I could do that with, 610 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: that I could consciously couple with. I haven't met Mike 611 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: Gwyneth Paltrow, who know she consciously on couples, right, she 612 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: doesn't come she got the on couples. But yeah, am 613 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: I open to it? Yeah? And because age has nothing 614 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: to do with it, I'll never forget. There's a lovely 615 00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: um documentary about about gay life, and there as this 616 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: older couple that met in their late seventies and they 617 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: sort of looked at each other and said, should we 618 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: see what this is like at our age? You know, 619 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: we had all the sex in our twenties and thirties 620 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: and then the world sort of dropped us. Should we see? 621 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: And they did and they were together until they died. Um, yeah, 622 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: I'm I am. I am a believer. You know, I 623 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 1: have friends that that meant. I mean, I don't know 624 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: how armistic marpen I don't know how old he was 625 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,720 Speaker 1: when he met Chris, but but they're such a happy, 626 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:38,479 Speaker 1: wonderful couple. Um yeah, I believe it can happen. It's 627 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:43,319 Speaker 1: just do I need it? And the truth is I 628 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: mostly would rather hang out with my friends. You know, okay, boys, 629 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: but boys are different than then boys is so different 630 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: because you know, we we we like it's it's like exciting, 631 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: it's society. It's exciting, we orgasm and then we want pizza. 632 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:06,359 Speaker 1: S it's boys. Okay, let's go back to the point 633 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:12,280 Speaker 1: invention earlier about the end of the book, and you're 634 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,359 Speaker 1: connecting with your brother, which really has to do with 635 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: your mother and how she viewed the fact that you 636 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:24,279 Speaker 1: were gay. And it's quite heavy. So if you could 637 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 1: relate a little bit of that to my audience and 638 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: how it ultimately left you have accepted or you still scarred, 639 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: and tell us I think what your parents say to you. 640 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 1: I think Soundheim was so right when he wrote in 641 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: in Into the Woods, children will listen. You know what 642 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: your parents say to you, and how you grow up, 643 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: and the stuff that said to you, whether you're conscious 644 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: of it or not, stays with you and imprints on 645 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: you so heavily that all the therapy in the world 646 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: can't actually erase it. Ud Ronald Tavel, who created the 647 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,799 Speaker 1: Theater of the Ridiculous, I um he was agoraphobic, and 648 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: so I used to have to take him to therapy. 649 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: I just have to pick him up in his apartment 650 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 1: and take him uptown because you couldn't go uptown on 651 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 1: his own. And I would sit outside in the in 652 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: the lobby but I could hear when they got loud 653 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: and at what guy Ronald was in the sixties at 654 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,399 Speaker 1: the time, and I'm sitting there reading a magazine or whatever, 655 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: and I hear the therapists scream out, You're six day, 656 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: three fucking years old. Where are you gonna stop blaming 657 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: your mother? You know, it's true, it sticks with you, 658 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:48,239 Speaker 1: it's important, it's very important, but you gotta also let 659 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 1: it go. My mother may have had that bad moment, 660 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: and maybe that bad moment was a lot longer because 661 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: obviously was going on in her mind, whatever's going on. 662 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 1: But my mother went on to deliver meals for for 663 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,400 Speaker 1: um God's love. We deliver, you know, to AIDS patients 664 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: for years. He's a woman in her seventies and eighties, 665 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: driving around, she said, bay with her friends delivering meals 666 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:22,840 Speaker 1: to gay people. Shut in. My mother. She she spoke 667 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: at She didn't like speaking at groups because she said, 668 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,280 Speaker 1: what do I know, I'm no expert. But she spoke 669 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: to parents all the time. People would write to her 670 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: and she would and she would speak to them. She 671 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: supported causes left him right, you know. She had her 672 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 1: Jewish causes and she and then she had her gay causes. 673 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,840 Speaker 1: So was she still my mother who would make me crazy? 674 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,239 Speaker 1: I'll tell your story that's not in the book, that 675 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: will show you it has nothing to do with sexuality, 676 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,800 Speaker 1: has just to do with with mothers and sons. So 677 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 1: Lakajha Fall is about to open a revival of lakaj 678 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: at the at the Marquis Theater right across the street, 679 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 1: the Minskore Theater. I'm about to open in Fiddler on 680 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,840 Speaker 1: the Roof. So I'm rehearsing eight hours a day, killing myself, 681 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 1: learning those dances, the songs and all that. Across the 682 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: street they're rehearsing Lakasha Fall. I'm Lakasja Vos opening, let's say, 683 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,960 Speaker 1: on Saturday night, and I'm gonna open the next Monday 684 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 1: in Fiddler. So I rehearse all day. I get a 685 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,720 Speaker 1: room at the at the Marquis Hotel. There's a hotel 686 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 1: above the theater um, so I can change my clothes. 687 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 1: My family and friends are all waiting for me up 688 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,800 Speaker 1: in the thing. So I come across. I'm like dying. 689 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: I've been dancing all day. I'm dying. I jump in 690 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 1: the shower. I pulled on my casino. Okay, let's go 691 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 1: and As we're walking out the hotel door, my friend 692 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:05,879 Speaker 1: Patty says to me, you must be exhausted. You work 693 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 1: so hard. My mother under her breath goes, I should 694 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,200 Speaker 1: work so hard. Ha ha, that is classic Jewish mother. 695 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 1: Believe me, I understand. I turned around the finger in 696 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 1: her face and said, Jacqueline, you can go home right now. 697 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,360 Speaker 1: You don't have to go downstairs and take a bow 698 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,959 Speaker 1: as my mother. You don't have to sit through this 699 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 1: show of mine. You can just go home right now. 700 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:42,080 Speaker 1: What I say So, that's mothers and sons that had 701 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,240 Speaker 1: nothing to do with sensuality or anything else. I should 702 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: work so hard, Okay, pivoting just a little bit. Both 703 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,760 Speaker 1: you and your brother grew up in the city. Ron's 704 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: office was in the city, You lived in the city. 705 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: You both primarily live in the country. Now what's that about. Well, 706 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:08,759 Speaker 1: he needed to because he had his two sons, and 707 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:13,920 Speaker 1: they made a choice, um two of what schools they 708 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,319 Speaker 1: wanted their kids to go to. Because you can you know, 709 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,160 Speaker 1: I mean, these private schools in the city cost a 710 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 1: fortune and both kids, both of his sons went to 711 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,399 Speaker 1: lovely private schools when they were little, but as they 712 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: got older, they needed better schools so um. And I 713 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,320 Speaker 1: think I think they made that choice for that reason, 714 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 1: because because my sister in law is a lawyer and 715 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,319 Speaker 1: she still worked in the city to this day, she's 716 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,799 Speaker 1: still um commutes into the city. Uh, so they made 717 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:49,240 Speaker 1: that choice. I was looking. I was I was living 718 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 1: in the basement of Harvey to Wells Brownstone, and then 719 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: I and then I, uh, I moved into a a condo. 720 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: He needed to move his mother into the basement. So 721 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 1: I found a condo and I moved into this condo. 722 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 1: But I was looking for a place in Manhattan, and 723 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,279 Speaker 1: the places were so expensive in Manhattan. Brooklyn used to 724 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,320 Speaker 1: be cheap. Can you believe Brooklyn used to be cheap? 725 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,560 Speaker 1: It certainly ain't cheap now my apart. I just looked 726 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,799 Speaker 1: at my apartment, my old apartment, which I think I 727 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,239 Speaker 1: sold for two hundred thousand dollars, is worth it like 728 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,520 Speaker 1: a million and a half. Now. Anyway, I'm looking in 729 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,320 Speaker 1: the city, and there was there was one building that 730 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:37,440 Speaker 1: I really loved. It was a little standalone building in 731 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,239 Speaker 1: Greenwich Muse you know, one of those little streets in 732 00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,399 Speaker 1: Grenwed Village. But it really it literally was one room 733 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,880 Speaker 1: on four stories. There was on the first story was 734 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,800 Speaker 1: like a living room, the second story was the kitchen 735 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,800 Speaker 1: in the bathroom, the ne story was was the bedroom, 736 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,160 Speaker 1: and then the top was like the office. And that 737 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:06,080 Speaker 1: that was a million dollars. And friends said, really, why 738 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,000 Speaker 1: don't you just stay in your apartment in Brooklyn, take 739 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,279 Speaker 1: that money, nowhere near that money, and go buy a 740 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 1: country house. I said, what am I good guy from Brooklyn? 741 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,000 Speaker 1: What am I gonna do with the country house? And 742 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:21,799 Speaker 1: she said, because you love swimming, you love there, you know, 743 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,560 Speaker 1: just go and see what that's like, because I did. 744 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,080 Speaker 1: Used to come up to this town I live in. 745 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,080 Speaker 1: I live in a small fictional town in Connecticut, and 746 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,600 Speaker 1: I used to come up to this town because I 747 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 1: had friends who lived here and um, they had a pool, 748 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, and I love swimming. I love being out 749 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,920 Speaker 1: in the cut. I mean, a lot of our childhood 750 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,160 Speaker 1: was spent in the Catskills because that's where my father 751 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,640 Speaker 1: was from, so I guess it was already in the blood. 752 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,120 Speaker 1: So I got this weekend place and fell in love 753 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,200 Speaker 1: and spent less and less time in the city. And 754 00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,360 Speaker 1: also when you have animals, it makes it harder to 755 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,239 Speaker 1: move back and forth, you know. It's like I have 756 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,239 Speaker 1: two dogs and two cats. So I filled the car 757 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,960 Speaker 1: with the two carrying cases for the cats, and I 758 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,239 Speaker 1: put the dogs in the car, and then I drive 759 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,560 Speaker 1: into the city park in a garage. Take out the dogs, 760 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,120 Speaker 1: take out the cats, take them up to the apartment, 761 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,239 Speaker 1: put out the water, put out the food, change the 762 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 1: litter box, take the dogs down for a walk, bring 763 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,840 Speaker 1: the dogs backed up. Then you were first free to 764 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,280 Speaker 1: go out. You went out, come back to the apartment, 765 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,160 Speaker 1: got the dogs, got the cats backed downstairs, into the car, 766 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,400 Speaker 1: and drive home. What kind of you know, It was 767 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,560 Speaker 1: just silly. So that's how I ended up spending more 768 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,839 Speaker 1: time here. Okay, there's a pulse in the city, and 769 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 1: you certainly drew on that pulse, both for daily activities 770 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,319 Speaker 1: and inspiration. Do you I'll grow that? Is it an 771 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 1: age thing or is the city or is the city 772 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:58,279 Speaker 1: just different? The city has definitely changed, and maybe it's 773 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,240 Speaker 1: and maybe it has changed cost of age or whatever. 774 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:11,880 Speaker 1: But the so much of what I loved has changed. Um, 775 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,240 Speaker 1: you know, there's the gay bars, just people are openly 776 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,759 Speaker 1: ky now. It's it's a different vibe to all that 777 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:25,280 Speaker 1: Broadway is. When I arrived on Broadway, more than half 778 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 1: the theaters were empty. My friend Betty Lee, who had 779 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,640 Speaker 1: the house up here that that um that I used 780 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,040 Speaker 1: to come up to, she was the one who came 781 00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,960 Speaker 1: up with the idea instead of having all those empty theaters, 782 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,239 Speaker 1: to put up a sign that said see a Broadway 783 00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,000 Speaker 1: show just for the fun of it. Half the theaters 784 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 1: in New York said see a Broadway show for the 785 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:51,719 Speaker 1: fun of it. They were empty. Broadway was different. The 786 00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:57,160 Speaker 1: the shows on Broadway were four New Yorkers. Think about it. 787 00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,799 Speaker 1: You know they didn't have of a Phantom of the 788 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:05,920 Speaker 1: operand and Lion King and Aladdin and Alan Mankin lives 789 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,680 Speaker 1: over there. Don't tell him. I said that. Um, they 790 00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:15,400 Speaker 1: didn't have these tourists kind of shows. It was we 791 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,160 Speaker 1: had on on my block alone, where I had Towards Song. 792 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:30,040 Speaker 1: We had Night Mother plenty, um, Um good Kay two, 793 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:39,320 Speaker 1: um Amadeus. We had plays that were four New Yorkers. 794 00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:45,000 Speaker 1: We had musicals you know that there was a revival 795 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:50,040 Speaker 1: of of Pirates of pens And starring Linda Roundstadt. There 796 00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:54,640 Speaker 1: was Barnum. We had trying to think we had the 797 00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,480 Speaker 1: history of rock and roll. They were different. It was different. 798 00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:02,400 Speaker 1: Not that one's better than the Broadway goes through it's things. 799 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,880 Speaker 1: It's going through a thing right now, It's it is different. 800 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,319 Speaker 1: Can I go into the city and get enough of 801 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,479 Speaker 1: a flavor from spending a day in the city. Here. 802 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,440 Speaker 1: I go in, I go to the art galleries. I 803 00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,880 Speaker 1: go to an auction I go to the auction houses. 804 00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,720 Speaker 1: I come in, I see a Broadway show. I heeded 805 00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,520 Speaker 1: my favorite restaurants. I see my my friends and all that, 806 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:31,319 Speaker 1: and then I come home. I don't care. Well, you know, 807 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,880 Speaker 1: I told Barbara Corkran. You know who Barbara Cowkran is. 808 00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:38,520 Speaker 1: The big she wouldn't send to me. I was playing um. 809 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,359 Speaker 1: I was playing a real estate agent, and she was 810 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,640 Speaker 1: my coach, and she said, Harvey, how could you live 811 00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,319 Speaker 1: in Connecticut like that? What's wrong with you? Come back 812 00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,800 Speaker 1: to the city. I'll find you an apartment. I said, Barbara, 813 00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:55,480 Speaker 1: here's the difference. I live in the city. I have 814 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,160 Speaker 1: my friendly, my friends and all that. I go up 815 00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,920 Speaker 1: to my apartment. I get there, I unlocked the twelve locks. 816 00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,560 Speaker 1: I go inside. I closed the twelve locks. The city 817 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,160 Speaker 1: is right outside my door. It's right outside my window, 818 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,640 Speaker 1: it's right outside my door. I am always aware that 819 00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 1: I'm locked in my box and the city's right outside. 820 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,799 Speaker 1: I come home to Connecticut, I get out of my car. 821 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,799 Speaker 1: I walked straight through the house and throw myself in 822 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,400 Speaker 1: the pool, you know, under the stars. Float around in 823 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,560 Speaker 1: the pool for a while, come out, walk around to 824 00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,160 Speaker 1: I don't lock the door now I do, but back 825 00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:41,040 Speaker 1: in those days you didn't. Um. I never feel that 826 00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,480 Speaker 1: something is outside my door waiting to come in. I'm 827 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:52,239 Speaker 1: in a peaceful place. It's a big difference. How does 828 00:53:52,280 --> 00:54:00,319 Speaker 1: it affect inspiration creatively that you never know? You know, 829 00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:04,000 Speaker 1: if you if you don't meet John Doe, you're not 830 00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,239 Speaker 1: going to write about John Doe. So I wouldn't know. 831 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:12,080 Speaker 1: I mean, since I've been living here, I've written I 832 00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:18,360 Speaker 1: don't know how many things I've written so many. Um, 833 00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:23,640 Speaker 1: it's probably easier to write up here because this office 834 00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:30,920 Speaker 1: is very comfortable and uh, you don't have that hocking 835 00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,960 Speaker 1: at you from outside. You don't have that fever coming 836 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,880 Speaker 1: at you. I can concentrate. I don't know, you know, 837 00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:44,880 Speaker 1: do you have to live to write here? But I live? Um? Okay. 838 00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:51,480 Speaker 1: You are a very charismatic personality. You tell a good story. 839 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,759 Speaker 1: You take up a lot of space. Were you that 840 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,640 Speaker 1: way from a very young age or is this something 841 00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,840 Speaker 1: that you developed grew into. When I was a kid, 842 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,839 Speaker 1: I always had a friend that was more powerful than me. 843 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,040 Speaker 1: I was always the second banana. I was always the 844 00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:19,000 Speaker 1: best friend. Like my friend Michael was very charismatic and 845 00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:22,840 Speaker 1: very handsome, and I could get any guy he wanted 846 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,680 Speaker 1: and all that, and there was me and I had 847 00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:35,920 Speaker 1: several of those relationships, and I liked being second banana. Um. 848 00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,560 Speaker 1: I didn't feel ever that I wanted to be out there. 849 00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:46,600 Speaker 1: It wasn't until the until I got into the theater 850 00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:52,040 Speaker 1: and I got that taste of doing stuff. And I 851 00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,479 Speaker 1: guess what. The way I described it in the book 852 00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,840 Speaker 1: was what Tom O'Horgan said to me. Tom o horgan, 853 00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:05,080 Speaker 1: who directed Hair, and I said, Tom, I've run out 854 00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,200 Speaker 1: of unemployment. I have no work. You're doing a new 855 00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,120 Speaker 1: show at the Public Theater. Please give me a role 856 00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,719 Speaker 1: in the show. And he said, there's nothing in the 857 00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,560 Speaker 1: show for you. I said, put me in the chorus. 858 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,359 Speaker 1: I just need a job. And he said, Harvey, if 859 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,200 Speaker 1: I put you in the chorus, I have no chorus. 860 00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,640 Speaker 1: And that's when I started realizing there was something else 861 00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:29,440 Speaker 1: going on with me that I didn't wasn't really in 862 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:34,960 Speaker 1: control of what happens between you and the audience. The 863 00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:40,640 Speaker 1: real magic is not something you do, it's it just happens. 864 00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:44,680 Speaker 1: It happens because of who you are, or your personality 865 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,759 Speaker 1: or whatever. That magic is that you can't really put 866 00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:52,319 Speaker 1: your finger on, you know. Ah, I can't tell you 867 00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:58,120 Speaker 1: why audiences loved me anymore than I can tell you, 868 00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,600 Speaker 1: you know, some of the mystery. I no, I don't 869 00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,400 Speaker 1: think I'm a great actor. I don't think obviously not 870 00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:09,399 Speaker 1: a great singer, dancer, any of that stuff. But there's 871 00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:13,320 Speaker 1: something that people like about seeing me, so it's nice. 872 00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:25,440 Speaker 1: I don't mind. I don't mind it all forgetting about 873 00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,120 Speaker 1: the critics and the people we referenced earlier who might 874 00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:33,640 Speaker 1: say negative things. You're very successful. Do you find any 875 00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:40,800 Speaker 1: insider resentment of your success? There's that line in the 876 00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:44,960 Speaker 1: book that I think, I forget who said it. I 877 00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:51,840 Speaker 1: think it was Jay Well anyway, uh, And it's a 878 00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,840 Speaker 1: he's and it wasn't an original line of his, that 879 00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,160 Speaker 1: show business is the only business where it's not enough 880 00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:04,120 Speaker 1: that you succeed all of your friends and my fail um. 881 00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,120 Speaker 1: I don't think that we in the theater are the 882 00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,160 Speaker 1: only ones who feel that way. And I do certainly 883 00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:13,240 Speaker 1: understand that there are people who feel that way. The 884 00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:18,560 Speaker 1: older I get, the less I feel that I'm in 885 00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:23,640 Speaker 1: somehow in competition. I hate that we have award shows 886 00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:28,080 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. I loathe it. Um. Now, what 887 00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,040 Speaker 1: somebody can sid to me is that's fine. You have 888 00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,880 Speaker 1: six Tony Awards sitting in your bathroom, you know, so 889 00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,440 Speaker 1: you can say you don't like the Tony's. But I 890 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,440 Speaker 1: don't like what it does to us. It's a tool 891 00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,920 Speaker 1: to sell tickets, That's what it is. Can't we be 892 00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:47,240 Speaker 1: honest about that, um and not turn it into something else? 893 00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:53,920 Speaker 1: These popularity contests. But but I guess you know, I mean, 894 00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:58,400 Speaker 1: they give out awards in second grade, so I guess 895 00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:03,640 Speaker 1: that's just built into human I don't know. Okay, Emotionally, 896 00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:08,280 Speaker 1: not on paper, do you feel that you're this big success? 897 00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:14,200 Speaker 1: Emotionally do I feel like I'm a success? Not on paper? 898 00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you someone could say, Harvey, here's the list 899 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,680 Speaker 1: of your Tony Awards, here's the list of this, this 900 00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,640 Speaker 1: is your bank account that define success. But that might 901 00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:27,400 Speaker 1: be completely different from what you feel on the inside. Yeah, No, 902 00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:32,000 Speaker 1: I definitely feel because I don't feel. I mean, there's 903 00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,560 Speaker 1: certain certainly things I didn't do. You know, we all 904 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:41,720 Speaker 1: have little moments of like being conscious of a project 905 00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,920 Speaker 1: we didn't do that we should have done, or you 906 00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,240 Speaker 1: know that kind of stuff for something I wish I 907 00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:53,120 Speaker 1: had gotten. Um, but that doesn't have anything to do 908 00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:58,160 Speaker 1: with success. Yeah. No, I would have to say yes, 909 00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,040 Speaker 1: is that a good There's nothing I'd have to say 910 01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:09,840 Speaker 1: that that. I'm really very happy with what I've accomplished. Um. 911 01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:15,040 Speaker 1: Like I said, to sit down and write something, um, 912 01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:18,600 Speaker 1: you know, like whether it's this book. You know that, 913 01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:24,120 Speaker 1: I mean a New York Times best seller, goddamn. I mean, 914 01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,640 Speaker 1: you know, really as long as as long as you 915 01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:30,120 Speaker 1: can believe it. A lot of people can't accept it 916 01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:36,680 Speaker 1: even though they've achieved it. Yeah. No, I don't think 917 01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:40,840 Speaker 1: anything came to me so easily that I can't accept it. 918 01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:45,960 Speaker 1: I've worked really hard on most things. You know. Sometimes 919 01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:51,000 Speaker 1: sometimes something happens that that I just say, oh please. Um. 920 01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:56,280 Speaker 1: There's this movie that's opening Friday, your Friday, called Bros. 921 01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:58,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen the ads for it, 922 01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:02,760 Speaker 1: Billy Listener else. Yeah. So I'm in the movie for 923 01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:09,840 Speaker 1: about thirty seconds, literally thirty seconds. I hear from everyone 924 01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,680 Speaker 1: who's seen it from every screening they've had, including from 925 01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:17,280 Speaker 1: Billy Eichner, that as soon as the audience hears my voice, 926 01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:24,640 Speaker 1: they begin to applaud. They get so excited that I'm there. Unfortunately, 927 01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:29,560 Speaker 1: by the time they stopped a book over because I'm 928 01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:34,000 Speaker 1: on the screen for thirty seconds. Now, would you say, 929 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,720 Speaker 1: that's sort of embarrassing, you know, because you didn't really 930 01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,520 Speaker 1: do anything to get that kind of applause, But it's 931 01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:45,160 Speaker 1: also cute and fun and well you did plenty, Well 932 01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:46,960 Speaker 1: I guess, I guess in the long run, I did. 933 01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,360 Speaker 1: I took a lot of cocks to get that reputation. 934 01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:56,040 Speaker 1: So you talk in the book, but I'll tell you 935 01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:59,400 Speaker 1: a story. There's a new woman that writes page six, 936 01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,880 Speaker 1: you know, page sixth of course, So it's the opening 937 01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,800 Speaker 1: night of Funny Girl, and we're all nervous enough as 938 01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,160 Speaker 1: it is. This is the Funny Girl that's on now 939 01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,680 Speaker 1: that now starts. Liam Michellen is a huge hit. But 940 01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:17,720 Speaker 1: you may remember several months ago we opened with Beanie Feldstein, Feldman, 941 01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:22,080 Speaker 1: Feldspine whatever, and everybody was a little nervous. So it 942 01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,160 Speaker 1: was opening night of that and the woman from page 943 01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,680 Speaker 1: six is there, and they say, Harvey stay away from her. 944 01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:31,520 Speaker 1: She's so mean. She she writes very mean things. Just 945 01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,160 Speaker 1: stay away from I said, what the funk do I care? 946 01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:36,400 Speaker 1: So I go up to I said, what do you want? 947 01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:40,280 Speaker 1: She said? The way the world is going now, with 948 01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:44,240 Speaker 1: people changing language and all that, I don't even know 949 01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:48,280 Speaker 1: what to call you. Are you a homosexual? Are you 950 01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:53,480 Speaker 1: a faggot? Are you are are you gay? Are you queer? 951 01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,320 Speaker 1: And I said, just call me a cocksucker? That one 952 01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:04,720 Speaker 1: ever can't respond to that particular one. At what point 953 01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:08,000 Speaker 1: is some people now you talking about being gay, knowing 954 01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:12,720 Speaker 1: that you're different referenced earlier than the conventional person. At 955 01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,920 Speaker 1: what point did you wait a second? I can't let 956 01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:19,200 Speaker 1: you get away with conventional person. I can't let you 957 01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:23,240 Speaker 1: get away with saying that gays are conventional people. You're 958 01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:27,840 Speaker 1: absolutely right boring any heterosexual. I know some gaze. I 959 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,600 Speaker 1: know some gaze i'd like to throw back. You know 960 01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:32,960 Speaker 1: you measure them and you they're not big enough to 961 01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,480 Speaker 1: keeping your thrown back in the ocean. I know some 962 01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,880 Speaker 1: really conventional gaze. You can't get away with that with me, 963 01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,160 Speaker 1: and you are absolutely correct. If I want to give 964 01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,720 Speaker 1: myself an excuse, I was talking while I'm thinking of 965 01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:47,360 Speaker 1: something else, So let me go directly what I was thinking. 966 01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:53,160 Speaker 1: Did you know from a very young age you wanted 967 01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:56,800 Speaker 1: to we're going to be something? Because in the book 968 01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:01,800 Speaker 1: you portray someone who's not who's smart but as dyslexic. 969 01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:07,160 Speaker 1: Some of your parents are not absolutely behind you. A 970 01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,439 Speaker 1: lot of people who are someone ostracized too strong a term, 971 01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:12,960 Speaker 1: but people who are living in a separate This is 972 01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:16,280 Speaker 1: where I, you know, used conventional but and I won't 973 01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:21,440 Speaker 1: use it again, who are separate from the traditional. Um 974 01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:25,160 Speaker 1: they say I'm different, but I'm gonna make it. Other 975 01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,000 Speaker 1: people say, well, I'm just gonna go on my own course. 976 01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,480 Speaker 1: Who knows what's happening? What do you know? I had 977 01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:37,680 Speaker 1: no My mother had dropped out of school in seventh 978 01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:41,120 Speaker 1: grade because you had to help, uh, support the family. 979 01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:46,640 Speaker 1: My father has brought up in a orphanage in the Catskills, 980 01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:49,920 Speaker 1: where at thirteen you were an adult. So at thirteen 981 01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:52,840 Speaker 1: he was driving a truck for the bakery. He was 982 01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:57,000 Speaker 1: delivering bread for the local bakery. My father worked his 983 01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:01,440 Speaker 1: whole life in a factory as a mana here. I 984 01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:07,440 Speaker 1: was not raised to be Uh why not? I would, 985 01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:11,840 Speaker 1: but I was not raised to be in the uppercrost Um. 986 01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,040 Speaker 1: My brother and I were called the lawyer and the 987 01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:18,920 Speaker 1: doctor because we would choose. You know, I choose always, 988 01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:25,520 Speaker 1: that's what you what you? I watched my mother. You know, 989 01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:27,120 Speaker 1: I didn't know what the hell I wanted to be. 990 01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:29,200 Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to be some kind of an artist. 991 01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:32,560 Speaker 1: I didn't know. I love the arts. I love Disney. 992 01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:35,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to be a Disney cartoonist. But I knew 993 01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,200 Speaker 1: I wasn't good enough to be a Disney cartoonist. I 994 01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:42,000 Speaker 1: was good enough to copy a Disney cartoon. I could 995 01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:46,240 Speaker 1: copy the drawing, but could I create. No. But I 996 01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:50,720 Speaker 1: knew that there must be jobs in the arts for 997 01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:55,360 Speaker 1: for a technician type person. So that's what I figured 998 01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:57,800 Speaker 1: I would do. So I went ahead and got my 999 01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,920 Speaker 1: education as an art in the arts. I went to 1000 01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:03,000 Speaker 1: the High School of Art and Design. I went to 1001 01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:07,880 Speaker 1: Pratt got my degree in painting, et cetera. My mother, 1002 01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:11,800 Speaker 1: when I went to high school, went back to high 1003 01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:15,560 Speaker 1: school with me so she could finish high school. She 1004 01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,040 Speaker 1: then went to college with me. My older brother was 1005 01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:21,880 Speaker 1: already ahead of us, and my father sort of put up. 1006 01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,240 Speaker 1: It wasn't all that happy with it, but he put 1007 01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,000 Speaker 1: up with her going back to school, and she went, 1008 01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,320 Speaker 1: and she got as far she got her master's. She 1009 01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:32,200 Speaker 1: went as far as she could have gotten a doctor. 1010 01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:35,200 Speaker 1: But she didn't want to write that long paper because 1011 01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:36,919 Speaker 1: she was already at the top of the food chain 1012 01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:39,440 Speaker 1: as a New York City school teacher. She said, why 1013 01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:43,240 Speaker 1: do you all that work and not get anything for it? Anyway? 1014 01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:50,240 Speaker 1: So I watched people take care of business which had 1015 01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:56,360 Speaker 1: nothing to do with rising above in the way that 1016 01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:04,080 Speaker 1: you were asking. I my brother, as you probably know 1017 01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,680 Speaker 1: because you know him, he got out of school. He 1018 01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:10,240 Speaker 1: was supposed to be the doctor he found himself from 1019 01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:12,520 Speaker 1: pre med before he realized that he had been talked 1020 01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,680 Speaker 1: into it. I never wanted to be a doctor. He 1021 01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:19,320 Speaker 1: went and formed a rock and roll band. They didn't 1022 01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:22,600 Speaker 1: do very well, but they did okay enough so that 1023 01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:27,440 Speaker 1: he realized he could go back to law school because 1024 01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:29,640 Speaker 1: with a law degree there were lots of things he 1025 01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:32,720 Speaker 1: could do. He could understand contracts and all that and 1026 01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:35,200 Speaker 1: become a manager or whatever and then have the career 1027 01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:39,720 Speaker 1: that he had. I, on the other hand, just went 1028 01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:46,280 Speaker 1: forward with whatever opportunities came to me. Somebody said, draw posters. 1029 01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:49,200 Speaker 1: I drew posters. Somebody said, work on a set for 1030 01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,840 Speaker 1: a show. I worked on the set, pull the curtain, 1031 01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:55,479 Speaker 1: do the lights at this little role. What the hell? 1032 01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:58,840 Speaker 1: When Ronald Tavell said to me, why don't you write 1033 01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:02,320 Speaker 1: a play, and I said, I can't because I'm dyslexic. 1034 01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:06,160 Speaker 1: I can't spell. And he said to me, there are 1035 01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:09,560 Speaker 1: people who get paid two dollars an hour to fix 1036 01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:13,600 Speaker 1: your spelling. You go ahead and write. That was the 1037 01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:22,040 Speaker 1: freedom for me. So it wasn't that I had this ambition, 1038 01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:25,400 Speaker 1: this growing ambition that I wanted to now be a writer. 1039 01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:28,559 Speaker 1: I'm going to write Broadway plays. No, it was just 1040 01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:32,360 Speaker 1: an opportunity to do something else, and and I didn't 1041 01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:34,320 Speaker 1: know what I was doing. And the first couple of 1042 01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:37,840 Speaker 1: plays I wrote, as I say in the book, were 1043 01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:43,040 Speaker 1: imitations of my friends plays um which is another reason 1044 01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:45,320 Speaker 1: why I don't like critics, because they came in and 1045 01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:48,320 Speaker 1: reviewed it as if I was trying to do something else, 1046 01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, like, look what he's doing. He's imitating his friends. 1047 01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,920 Speaker 1: Such a rip off, That's all I was trying to 1048 01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:59,320 Speaker 1: I never wrote before, I never typed before. But anyway, 1049 01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:06,360 Speaker 1: so my life was in a funny way accidental. Did 1050 01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:10,520 Speaker 1: I have points where all of a sudden, I pushed, yes, definitely, 1051 01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:14,280 Speaker 1: you have to you know, you can't just swim with 1052 01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:17,400 Speaker 1: the tide all the time. So I did have moments, 1053 01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:24,559 Speaker 1: but for the most part it was with open eyes, saying, 1054 01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:31,160 Speaker 1: what's this next opportunity? Okay, I mean I just how 1055 01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:33,000 Speaker 1: many years ago? Let me just look at the script. 1056 01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:37,599 Speaker 1: Two thousand and twelve, they came to me to write 1057 01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:43,439 Speaker 1: a movie about May West for Bette Midler. I went 1058 01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:45,439 Speaker 1: through all the steps and all that. I'm sitting here 1059 01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:52,559 Speaker 1: with this open because yesterday, nine years later, ten years later, yes, say, 1060 01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,240 Speaker 1: I got a call from somebody who had heard about 1061 01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:58,639 Speaker 1: my script from Me West. They never made it um 1062 01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:00,720 Speaker 1: and said I hear it's good. Can I see it? 1063 01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:04,439 Speaker 1: Somebody would say, hey, Harvey's out there trying to sell 1064 01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:07,240 Speaker 1: the script from Me West. No, it's just one of 1065 01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:12,479 Speaker 1: them accidents. Life. Life is really interesting. Life is really 1066 01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,400 Speaker 1: interesting if you just live it, you just you know. 1067 01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:20,559 Speaker 1: I think the quote in the book is life is 1068 01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:23,800 Speaker 1: only as exciting as the number of times you say yes, right, 1069 01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,160 Speaker 1: I was just going to get there. So you say 1070 01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:29,840 Speaker 1: say yes, because you never know what will happen if 1071 01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:34,080 Speaker 1: you say no. Nothing's going to happen. Is it really 1072 01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:39,320 Speaker 1: saying yes to everything? Or now I see you shaking 1073 01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:45,800 Speaker 1: your head. So what does that ultimately mean? Is it 1074 01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:47,920 Speaker 1: when you're on the fence, you say yes? Because there 1075 01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:50,639 Speaker 1: are certain things when you're dying into when you get 1076 01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,800 Speaker 1: the offer and there so what we're talking on the 1077 01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,800 Speaker 1: certain that you say no way, But how does this 1078 01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:00,559 Speaker 1: actually operate in your life where you say, well, you know, 1079 01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,120 Speaker 1: I could stay where I am, but I'm gonna take 1080 01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:08,599 Speaker 1: a flyer. Um, if you're dying to do something, there's 1081 01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:11,240 Speaker 1: not really a question, then you're gonna do it. That's 1082 01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:16,080 Speaker 1: if you have. You know. I've come up with some 1083 01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:19,160 Speaker 1: rules over the years. I'm not sure any of them applied. 1084 01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:24,759 Speaker 1: I no longer will do anything for money. Um. Money 1085 01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:27,840 Speaker 1: is the wrong reason to say yes. And I only 1086 01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:30,400 Speaker 1: know that because I've said yes to things for money 1087 01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:35,880 Speaker 1: and they've always turned out disastrously. Um. The ones that 1088 01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:39,559 Speaker 1: are the things that that I was talking about, and 1089 01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,640 Speaker 1: the things that people don't pay attention to are not 1090 01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:45,040 Speaker 1: necessarily Somebody calls you up and says you ought to 1091 01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,800 Speaker 1: be in fither on the roof, that's a whole different thing. 1092 01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:51,720 Speaker 1: Somebody calls you up and says you want to go 1093 01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:57,040 Speaker 1: out to dinner. That dinner can change your life more 1094 01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:01,040 Speaker 1: than being in fither on the roof. You don't know. 1095 01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:04,320 Speaker 1: You don't know what will happen at that dinner unless 1096 01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:07,479 Speaker 1: you go to that dinner. It's the little stuff that 1097 01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:10,920 Speaker 1: we say no to, and we say no because it's uncomfortable, 1098 01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:13,639 Speaker 1: not because it's a big life changing thing, A big 1099 01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,599 Speaker 1: life changing thing you have to think about. I'm talking 1100 01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:20,479 Speaker 1: about I'm sitting here talking to you and I get 1101 01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:24,120 Speaker 1: a text message that says, meet me for dinner tonight. No, 1102 01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:27,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say no because I've got the script I 1103 01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:29,080 Speaker 1: have to edit, and I have this other stuff and 1104 01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:31,559 Speaker 1: I haven't answered email all day and all that, and 1105 01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:35,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say no. But if I said yes and 1106 01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,479 Speaker 1: I went out to that restaurant, I don't know that 1107 01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:40,720 Speaker 1: the guy sitting at the next table wouldn't turn out 1108 01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:43,960 Speaker 1: to be the great love of my life by angor 1109 01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:47,880 Speaker 1: meet him sitting there editing a script at home. So 1110 01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:51,679 Speaker 1: it's the little stuff that is really the important stuff 1111 01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:55,120 Speaker 1: to say, Yester. If you stay at home, if you 1112 01:12:55,200 --> 01:13:02,679 Speaker 1: do the comfortable thing, you will be comfortable, which means 1113 01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:06,719 Speaker 1: not living you. You have to you have to live, 1114 01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:12,479 Speaker 1: and live means making uncomfortable choices. It's not the big stuff. 1115 01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:16,080 Speaker 1: The big stuff you figure out. Okay, I'm interested. You're 1116 01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:20,400 Speaker 1: saying that you were busy right now the friend invited 1117 01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:23,120 Speaker 1: you to go to dinner, forget the person who sitting 1118 01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:27,120 Speaker 1: at home watching television. Whatever. You have things and that 1119 01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:31,679 Speaker 1: are going that you're focused on. Just to be clear, 1120 01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:35,040 Speaker 1: you are not going to go. And when should you say? 1121 01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:38,160 Speaker 1: I'm I got something going on literally just today, the 1122 01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:41,680 Speaker 1: same thing. I'm really busy And I say, well, you know, 1123 01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:43,439 Speaker 1: maybe at this time I can make a window, but 1124 01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:46,639 Speaker 1: I got so much in the schedule. Should I always 1125 01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:51,000 Speaker 1: be leaning towards yes? Or when can I just say no? 1126 01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:56,040 Speaker 1: When there's other people dependent on you to finish a project, 1127 01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:01,880 Speaker 1: you owe that. You owe that um a commitment. If 1128 01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:03,920 Speaker 1: it's a project you just want to get finished to 1129 01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:07,920 Speaker 1: get it off your desk, you don't necessarily owe that. 1130 01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:13,200 Speaker 1: You can say to yourself, as I would if somebody 1131 01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:16,000 Speaker 1: calls texting me right now, I would say, you know, 1132 01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:20,639 Speaker 1: it's four o'clock. I'm gonna have to stop for dinner 1133 01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,360 Speaker 1: sooner or later. Anyway, I haven't even had breakfast. I 1134 01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,519 Speaker 1: didn't even have lunch because I've been running. I came 1135 01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:29,599 Speaker 1: running home to do this with you. But I'm gonna 1136 01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:32,720 Speaker 1: have to stop for dinner anyway. That it's gonna take 1137 01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,920 Speaker 1: me longer to cook it myself than it will to 1138 01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:38,280 Speaker 1: just get in the car and go meet there at 1139 01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:41,760 Speaker 1: the diner. Let me go to the diner. That's what 1140 01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:45,599 Speaker 1: I mean. Okay. Is it harder to go to the dinner, yes, 1141 01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:50,960 Speaker 1: is there It's harder to go to the desk, make 1142 01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:55,639 Speaker 1: a sandwich and sit at my desk. Okay, let's go back. 1143 01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:58,439 Speaker 1: You say you have this May West script from almost 1144 01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:01,720 Speaker 1: a ten years ago. Right, are you the type of 1145 01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:06,880 Speaker 1: person right now there's fifteen thing. Well, there's some things 1146 01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:12,639 Speaker 1: that are relatively dormant, like that movie script. But are 1147 01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:15,200 Speaker 1: there a lot of dormant things or a lot of 1148 01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:18,759 Speaker 1: things in the middle? How many projects are you juggling 1149 01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:25,519 Speaker 1: or involved in it? Once? Um, I keep joking that 1150 01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:31,800 Speaker 1: I'm retired and I cannot stop with the project. So 1151 01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:35,599 Speaker 1: at the moment, like I said, this the May West thing, 1152 01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,519 Speaker 1: this will only take me two days to just I 1153 01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:41,240 Speaker 1: just have to clean it up because it's not even 1154 01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:46,559 Speaker 1: written on the same UM version of the Scriptwriting Program anymore. 1155 01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:49,479 Speaker 1: I just have to go clean it up everything. It'll 1156 01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:51,840 Speaker 1: take me two days to do that, no problem, and 1157 01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:55,160 Speaker 1: then that's gone. If they come back to me, it's fine, 1158 01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:58,040 Speaker 1: but it's nothing I'm gonna actively pursue. But I've got 1159 01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:01,880 Speaker 1: a play that I've always wanted to write that I've 1160 01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:06,240 Speaker 1: started to write. I've got a television show that I've 1161 01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:09,200 Speaker 1: been pitching and I have meetings for and I've had 1162 01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:13,280 Speaker 1: a few great meetings, and that's fine. I've got Kinky 1163 01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:16,360 Speaker 1: Boots off Broadway, which I still have to do press for. 1164 01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:21,840 Speaker 1: I've got Funny Girl on Broadway, which is going just fine. Now. 1165 01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:25,479 Speaker 1: Kinky Boots is gonna be on the Today's Show in 1166 01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:28,559 Speaker 1: two weeks and they need a lot. You can't say 1167 01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:31,280 Speaker 1: a certain word on television. I have to go rewrite 1168 01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:35,200 Speaker 1: the line. And then there's another line that's we're seven 1169 01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:38,760 Speaker 1: seconds over, and we can't be seven seconds over, so 1170 01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:41,519 Speaker 1: I have to cut seven seconds out. So there's always 1171 01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:43,559 Speaker 1: stuff like that that has to be done. I mean, 1172 01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:50,120 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's And I am offered a 1173 01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:52,880 Speaker 1: lot of work that I just say no to because 1174 01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:57,639 Speaker 1: there's a lot of stupid ideas out there, a lot 1175 01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:01,479 Speaker 1: of really bad ideas out there. And the other thing 1176 01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:05,400 Speaker 1: that I say no to is when somebody writes to 1177 01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:10,920 Speaker 1: me and says, I've always wanted to tell my story 1178 01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:14,880 Speaker 1: and you're the one to do it. Oh see, look 1179 01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:17,920 Speaker 1: at you nodding your head. I hear that all the time. 1180 01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:22,160 Speaker 1: And what do you say to them? I say two things. 1181 01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:24,799 Speaker 1: I say, Well, if I was going to write anybody's story, 1182 01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:27,479 Speaker 1: take that time, I would write my own. And I 1183 01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,400 Speaker 1: would say, I just don't have the time. Sounds like 1184 01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:34,040 Speaker 1: a great idea, I just don't have the time. Yeah, 1185 01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:38,960 Speaker 1: maybe I'm a little kind to that. You. What I 1186 01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:42,439 Speaker 1: say to them is, if someone's going to tell you 1187 01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:46,679 Speaker 1: a story, it should be you. But they always see 1188 01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:49,280 Speaker 1: your story, right, but they always say no, no, no, 1189 01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,679 Speaker 1: you're such a better writing That's that's what I say. 1190 01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:55,559 Speaker 1: Somebody's gonna tell you a story, it should be you. 1191 01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:58,000 Speaker 1: You have a great idea for a play, go ahead 1192 01:17:58,000 --> 01:17:59,840 Speaker 1: and write it. You have a great idea from you 1193 01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:04,760 Speaker 1: of the gig, because a day I have more than 1194 01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:08,000 Speaker 1: enough ideas of my own. And you know which doesn't 1195 01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:11,080 Speaker 1: mean that a bad a good idea could come. I 1196 01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:14,599 Speaker 1: wouldn't have written Kinky Boots unless I was guilty because 1197 01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:17,360 Speaker 1: I had already turned down two or three other shows 1198 01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:19,720 Speaker 1: offered to me by the same people, and I said, 1199 01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:23,599 Speaker 1: if I turned them down again, And and the produce, 1200 01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:27,439 Speaker 1: the main producer had produced my show Catered Affair, which 1201 01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:31,840 Speaker 1: she lost everything on it. It bombed. So I owed her, 1202 01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:35,679 Speaker 1: and I owed the director choreographer. So I did Kinky Boots, 1203 01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:40,200 Speaker 1: which turned out to be a wonderful experience. But it 1204 01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:43,599 Speaker 1: took me five or six years to write that show 1205 01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:47,360 Speaker 1: to get that score. Well, first of all, to find 1206 01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:52,360 Speaker 1: the right composer, which turned out to be Cindy Lauper, 1207 01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:55,360 Speaker 1: and then to get the fucking score out of that 1208 01:18:55,400 --> 01:19:00,120 Speaker 1: woman had to keep the producers from firing her a 1209 01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:06,400 Speaker 1: daily basis. They wanted to fire every single day. Um, 1210 01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:10,800 Speaker 1: you know, so it us how it worked. But okay, 1211 01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:15,439 Speaker 1: do you have that holy Gray grayal personal project that 1212 01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:18,599 Speaker 1: you just need to get done before you leave this 1213 01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:22,640 Speaker 1: mortal coil? Oh? I would have done it alround, do 1214 01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:25,080 Speaker 1: it all that? I mean, like, like I really want 1215 01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:29,720 Speaker 1: to write display. Will the world be fine without Display? Yeah? Will? 1216 01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:33,799 Speaker 1: I'd be fine without Display? Here. I'm not a believer 1217 01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:37,200 Speaker 1: in life after death. I've been dead, you know. When 1218 01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:41,920 Speaker 1: I had my my heart surgery. I've been dead. There's 1219 01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:45,679 Speaker 1: no life after death, so I don't worry about what 1220 01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:48,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to leave behind, or what somebody's gonna think 1221 01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:55,840 Speaker 1: of me or or whatever. It's such silliness. Other projects 1222 01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:59,040 Speaker 1: I wish there's there's things I wish I had done 1223 01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:02,800 Speaker 1: that I did. I'm doing here. But but but none 1224 01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:05,840 Speaker 1: of them are painful because I do enough of what 1225 01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:08,800 Speaker 1: I want to do, so none of it's painful. They 1226 01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:11,920 Speaker 1: just did the movie of of Little Mermaid. Would I 1227 01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:15,439 Speaker 1: have loved to have played Ursula the evil Witch? I 1228 01:20:15,479 --> 01:20:19,680 Speaker 1: would have loved it, But Rob wanted Melissa McCarthy. I 1229 01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:22,680 Speaker 1: happen to be a huge fan of Melissa McCarthy, So 1230 01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:27,400 Speaker 1: while I curse her, I will also applaud her because 1231 01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:29,439 Speaker 1: I'm sure she's going to do a fabulous job in 1232 01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:40,240 Speaker 1: the role. Okay, your father died surprisingly at a very 1233 01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:44,240 Speaker 1: young age. How did that affect you on a long 1234 01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:49,759 Speaker 1: term basis? And did it force you to pay closer 1235 01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:53,599 Speaker 1: attention to your health? You ultimately had hard problems? Were 1236 01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:57,760 Speaker 1: you lucky it was quarter? Would you've been paying attention? Well? 1237 01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:00,719 Speaker 1: My heart, then, as I tell the story in the book, 1238 01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:04,880 Speaker 1: is such a joke because two days before I went 1239 01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:08,000 Speaker 1: to the doctor, before my annual physical, I did a 1240 01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:11,360 Speaker 1: drag show for Broadway Cares that when he fights eighth 1241 01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:14,759 Speaker 1: and I had this huge fur coat and all this stuff. 1242 01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:18,480 Speaker 1: I had these bags that must wait sixty seventy pounds, 1243 01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,720 Speaker 1: and I dragged them up three flights of stairs to 1244 01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:25,360 Speaker 1: the dressing room. Did this show, you know, running up 1245 01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:27,519 Speaker 1: and downstairs and all that. I then go to the 1246 01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:31,240 Speaker 1: doctor and he said, your heart's about to fail the 1247 01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:35,479 Speaker 1: valve um. Don't lift anything over five pounds that don't 1248 01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:38,760 Speaker 1: run up and downstairs. I said, you don't. Und day, Well, 1249 01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:44,000 Speaker 1: don't do that again, but dude down let me okay. 1250 01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:48,800 Speaker 1: Um So some mortality came to me in such a 1251 01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:53,760 Speaker 1: strange way. And then I have this brother who immediately 1252 01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:58,760 Speaker 1: took charge as he's wont to do, and and and 1253 01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:02,960 Speaker 1: because he was pre men in college, he had a 1254 01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:05,560 Speaker 1: doctor friend who was able to hook me up with 1255 01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:10,120 Speaker 1: the number one cardiologist in New York. And so before 1256 01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:13,120 Speaker 1: I knew it, I was being operated. It wasn't even 1257 01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:18,680 Speaker 1: like a choice. Um. So did I ever stop to 1258 01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:26,040 Speaker 1: think that my father died of a heart attack? Yeah, 1259 01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:29,080 Speaker 1: And I'm not gonna say that life isn't precious. Life 1260 01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:35,839 Speaker 1: is precious. But do I think I'm gonna be cheated 1261 01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:42,200 Speaker 1: out of something if I died this evening. No, I 1262 01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:45,479 Speaker 1: wouldn't want them to find me naked. But no, I 1263 01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:50,720 Speaker 1: wouldn't feel like I was cheated. I've had this incredible life. Um, 1264 01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:55,759 Speaker 1: if it ends tonight, they're fast. If it ends thirty 1265 01:22:55,840 --> 01:23:00,080 Speaker 1: years from now, well not really. I have I have 1266 01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:04,960 Speaker 1: a pact with a friend of mine that when things 1267 01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:07,760 Speaker 1: get too hard, we take each other up to the 1268 01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:13,479 Speaker 1: roof and look at the view. Hey. Look, people couldn't 1269 01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:17,760 Speaker 1: see the push there on screen, exactly just right off 1270 01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:21,280 Speaker 1: the roof. But um, yeah, but we don't live in Russia. 1271 01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:24,040 Speaker 1: We don't have putin as our dear friend hel pushes 1272 01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:29,920 Speaker 1: off the roof. Uh. But yeah, you know. My philosophy 1273 01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:32,320 Speaker 1: of life, I guess this is a little different than 1274 01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:35,519 Speaker 1: other people's. And partly because I have my beliefs, and 1275 01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:39,439 Speaker 1: then partly because I've had this in I mean, what 1276 01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:44,080 Speaker 1: the fucking ride I've had already? Do I have more 1277 01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:47,320 Speaker 1: fun stuff to do? Absolutely? Every day I have more 1278 01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:50,960 Speaker 1: fun stuff to do. But I enjoy You're talking about 1279 01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:55,000 Speaker 1: somebody who enjoys being at home alone. With my dog 1280 01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:57,880 Speaker 1: as much as I do go into a Broadway theater. 1281 01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:02,160 Speaker 1: I love them both, but I love them both and 1282 01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:04,840 Speaker 1: I get something out of both. I love seeing my 1283 01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:07,679 Speaker 1: friends in the city. Hell, I love seeing my friends 1284 01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:12,960 Speaker 1: up here, which is the whole different crowd of people. Um, 1285 01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:17,240 Speaker 1: and then they sort of don't mix my life, don't mix. 1286 01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:20,840 Speaker 1: Or city city at my sewing machine and making a 1287 01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:26,920 Speaker 1: quilt or sitting at this computer writing a play. Okay, 1288 01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:33,120 Speaker 1: to what degree does Harvey Firestein both open doors and 1289 01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:36,160 Speaker 1: get what he wants? Or do you have to because 1290 01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:38,920 Speaker 1: projects can be so expensive? Do you always have to 1291 01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:45,600 Speaker 1: sell a projects are very sense and you always have 1292 01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:49,640 Speaker 1: to sell even if you want to do it in 1293 01:24:49,720 --> 01:25:00,920 Speaker 1: a tiny theater um, because because it's always It's my 1294 01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:05,599 Speaker 1: friend Martin Sherman who wrote Bent. You probably know his played, 1295 01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:08,280 Speaker 1: So he wrote a play that I did at the 1296 01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:11,360 Speaker 1: public theater Um called Gently Down the Stream. I did 1297 01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:15,960 Speaker 1: it about five years ago, and uh and we we 1298 01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:18,280 Speaker 1: had to work to find a theater to put it on. 1299 01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:21,720 Speaker 1: We absolutely did and you have so you have the 1300 01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:28,080 Speaker 1: writer of Bent and me and uh Sean Matthias directed 1301 01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:31,559 Speaker 1: and he's very well known English director. We had three 1302 01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:36,600 Speaker 1: very three people that you can trust to put on 1303 01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:38,920 Speaker 1: a good show, and we still had to work really 1304 01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:44,639 Speaker 1: hard to find the right theater. Um, it's just it's 1305 01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:49,599 Speaker 1: just just the way it is. I have projects all, 1306 01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:52,680 Speaker 1: you know, like Bella Bella. I did a reading of it. 1307 01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:56,840 Speaker 1: I must have had around ten twelve theaters come and 1308 01:25:56,920 --> 01:26:03,679 Speaker 1: everybody had different opinions on what should be done with it. Um, yeah, 1309 01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:06,600 Speaker 1: you're always selling, but that has nothing to do with 1310 01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:10,679 Speaker 1: writing it. I already wrote the show. Then you then 1311 01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:12,880 Speaker 1: you have to sell, and then you go back to 1312 01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:17,599 Speaker 1: being an artist again of producing it. Okay, so when 1313 01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:20,240 Speaker 1: you do go to sell, up, most of the creative 1314 01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:22,240 Speaker 1: work has already done in terms of, you know, the 1315 01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:25,400 Speaker 1: structure of the bones of what you got. No, your 1316 01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:33,240 Speaker 1: script is done, you're you know in the script is malleable. 1317 01:26:34,360 --> 01:26:38,840 Speaker 1: But theater is a theater is Uh, it's not a 1318 01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:41,920 Speaker 1: single person. Even even if you're doing a one person 1319 01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:46,479 Speaker 1: show like Bella Bella, you have the director, you have 1320 01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:53,120 Speaker 1: the designers, lighting, sounds, set designer, even costume of what 1321 01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:57,479 Speaker 1: you're gonna look like. Um, you have the theater owner 1322 01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:00,439 Speaker 1: and what that space is going to feel like when 1323 01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:04,559 Speaker 1: the audience comes into it. Do I I don't know 1324 01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:06,360 Speaker 1: if I tell the story in the book or not. 1325 01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:10,200 Speaker 1: When we were doing Bella Bella and this guy had 1326 01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:12,280 Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom so bad, but he did 1327 01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:14,439 Speaker 1: not want to leave that theater. He didn't want to 1328 01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:17,200 Speaker 1: leave that theater. So he went out the side door 1329 01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:21,640 Speaker 1: and he peted on the wall. What he didn't know 1330 01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:25,800 Speaker 1: was we get here and in the theater he peed 1331 01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:28,679 Speaker 1: on the wall of the theater and they were very 1332 01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:33,040 Speaker 1: thin walls, and of the entire audience. And the play 1333 01:27:33,439 --> 01:27:36,760 Speaker 1: takes place in a bathroom, so I was grateful that 1334 01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:38,640 Speaker 1: he didn't come up on stage and pee in the 1335 01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:43,080 Speaker 1: toilet boat on stage. But the guy, I mean, so 1336 01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:47,320 Speaker 1: even the theater can fit into what the whole evening 1337 01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:51,400 Speaker 1: is like. Um, but yes, theater is definitely it's not 1338 01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:55,040 Speaker 1: it's not a book. Even the book. I mean, Chip 1339 01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:59,559 Speaker 1: Read did a gorgeous job designing this book. You know, 1340 01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:05,120 Speaker 1: the coverage is absolutely beautiful. I mean took us weeks 1341 01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:08,600 Speaker 1: just choosing the photographs because my editor didn't want it 1342 01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:11,760 Speaker 1: to look like a showbiz book. You know, I would 1343 01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:14,519 Speaker 1: have put a couple of hundred photographs in there, but 1344 01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:16,519 Speaker 1: he didn't want it to look like a showbis book 1345 01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:21,240 Speaker 1: he wanted to look like a memoir. So you don't 1346 01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:24,559 Speaker 1: do anything alone. There's no such thing. I mean, while 1347 01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:27,519 Speaker 1: you and I sit here talking, you have Margaret sitting 1348 01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:31,000 Speaker 1: in the other room, you know, boared out of my mind, 1349 01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:34,080 Speaker 1: saying I gotta fix this ship. When this is over, 1350 01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:43,040 Speaker 1: nobody nobody's alone. That's well put. You've made your name 1351 01:28:43,160 --> 01:28:47,520 Speaker 1: on Broadway, but you've also had great success in films. 1352 01:28:48,040 --> 01:28:52,840 Speaker 1: Give me your take, Hollywood visa the Broadway, and you 1353 01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:55,600 Speaker 1: wish you were in more films which tend to have 1354 01:28:55,640 --> 01:29:00,839 Speaker 1: a permanence that Broadway does not. What's your take? Um, 1355 01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:05,799 Speaker 1: I couldn't care less about movies. I really couldn't. I've 1356 01:29:05,880 --> 01:29:11,800 Speaker 1: been in a few, not many. I've enjoyed myself. Sometimes 1357 01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:17,840 Speaker 1: most of the time I'm bored because movies, you know, 1358 01:29:18,160 --> 01:29:22,439 Speaker 1: they drag you to the set, you rehearse the scene. 1359 01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:24,960 Speaker 1: Then you go back to your trailer and you're sit 1360 01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:28,160 Speaker 1: in your trailer for several hours while they lighted or whatever, 1361 01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:30,559 Speaker 1: and they put you in the costume whatever. They drag 1362 01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:34,160 Speaker 1: you back to the set, they fix it again. You 1363 01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:37,479 Speaker 1: do it once or twice, so twenty thirty times doesn't 1364 01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:39,880 Speaker 1: even matter. You're out there for a couple of minutes 1365 01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:44,559 Speaker 1: back to your trailer. It's it's not There are people 1366 01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:47,360 Speaker 1: that know how to do that as an art I 1367 01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:53,360 Speaker 1: am not among them. I find it incredibly boring. Theater. 1368 01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:57,640 Speaker 1: You still rehearse like you do in movies, but you 1369 01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:02,720 Speaker 1: rehearse the whole piece, you form the whole piece, and 1370 01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:06,880 Speaker 1: then you go out and you perform it in front 1371 01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:10,320 Speaker 1: of an audience and you have the whole control. You 1372 01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:15,080 Speaker 1: are the control, You're the act just telling the audience 1373 01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:19,160 Speaker 1: what to look at well, um, what to feel at all. 1374 01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:26,439 Speaker 1: It's just much more control in that. Um. I love movies. 1375 01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:28,559 Speaker 1: I love going to the movies. I love watching movies, 1376 01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:31,720 Speaker 1: and I could care less about being in them. I 1377 01:30:31,880 --> 01:30:37,200 Speaker 1: loved doing certain movies. But if you knew what those 1378 01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:41,120 Speaker 1: circumstances really were, like, they're a joke. I mean, Mrs 1379 01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:44,760 Speaker 1: s doabtfire, you know which? Everybody recognized me from I 1380 01:30:44,840 --> 01:30:49,400 Speaker 1: was there two days. There was two days that I 1381 01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:55,000 Speaker 1: got a lifetime relationship out of it is the important 1382 01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:57,799 Speaker 1: thing to me. I couldn't care less about the movie. 1383 01:30:58,080 --> 01:31:06,720 Speaker 1: My relationship with Robin meant everything to me. Um, what's 1384 01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:12,040 Speaker 1: another one independence day there? One day I did the 1385 01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:15,599 Speaker 1: scenes with you know, in my in my offices or whatever. 1386 01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:17,680 Speaker 1: And then they took me outside, put me in a 1387 01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:20,439 Speaker 1: car in an alley, said we're gonna turn on a 1388 01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:23,120 Speaker 1: yellow light. When the yellow light goes on, that means 1389 01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:26,280 Speaker 1: the building is falling on you. Make a face. I 1390 01:31:26,360 --> 01:31:30,320 Speaker 1: made a face. I went home. Meant nothing to me. 1391 01:31:31,240 --> 01:31:33,320 Speaker 1: You know, very glad that the movie made a couple 1392 01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:37,439 Speaker 1: of hundred million dollars, but it's nothing I'm ever gonna 1393 01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:40,960 Speaker 1: care about. Well do you get at this point? Do 1394 01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:43,640 Speaker 1: you get offers? And if you get offers, do you 1395 01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:46,480 Speaker 1: turn them down? Or is that something that was infrequent 1396 01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:50,800 Speaker 1: to begin with? Um, it's infrequent to begin with. I 1397 01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:54,800 Speaker 1: get offers when they don't know what they want, so 1398 01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:58,679 Speaker 1: they say, get Harvey, he'll fill it in. We didn't. 1399 01:31:58,680 --> 01:32:01,240 Speaker 1: The writer didn't write anything. Get Harvey, he'll fill it in. 1400 01:32:01,920 --> 01:32:08,920 Speaker 1: Um so bother Um. I did the movie, Bros. Because 1401 01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:11,519 Speaker 1: Billy asked me to do it as a favor. He 1402 01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:14,960 Speaker 1: wanted all gay casts and wanted me people part of that. 1403 01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:17,639 Speaker 1: And that's why I did it. Um, Like I said, 1404 01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:20,400 Speaker 1: that minute for thirty seconds, what's the big deal? But 1405 01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:24,280 Speaker 1: I don't I don't get offered. Great movie roles I mean, 1406 01:32:24,720 --> 01:32:27,280 Speaker 1: and my feeling might be different if I did. You know, 1407 01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:29,920 Speaker 1: maybe I would like movies, if if I was offering 1408 01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:35,840 Speaker 1: a role that was more than you know, thankless. Okay, 1409 01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:41,360 Speaker 1: you've been in movies. You're physically recognizable, certainly in New 1410 01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:44,720 Speaker 1: York there's Broadway, there's all kinds of things you recognizable, 1411 01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:50,840 Speaker 1: and you also have this voice. Can you go anywhere unrecognized? 1412 01:32:51,240 --> 01:32:52,960 Speaker 1: And to what degree is that? And to what degree 1413 01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:56,439 Speaker 1: is out of burden when you are recogn No? I mean, 1414 01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:59,799 Speaker 1: that's another reason for living up here, is I can go. Also, 1415 01:32:59,800 --> 01:33:02,360 Speaker 1: it's placed up here. Nobody knows who I am. It's lovely, 1416 01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:06,920 Speaker 1: um not, you know I can't. I well, I can 1417 01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:12,000 Speaker 1: walk around New York City most most neighborhoods, and nobody 1418 01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:14,400 Speaker 1: will know who I am. You know, I can't walk 1419 01:33:14,439 --> 01:33:18,240 Speaker 1: around Broadway. I mean, who was it? And it was 1420 01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:22,880 Speaker 1: I think it was Um. When they were doing me 1421 01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:27,120 Speaker 1: for sixty minutes which never aired. Um, the reporter called 1422 01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:30,000 Speaker 1: me the Mayor of Broadway because we're walking down the day. 1423 01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:32,400 Speaker 1: We couldn't he could. We couldn't walk and do the 1424 01:33:32,439 --> 01:33:35,160 Speaker 1: interview at the same time because everybody kept coming up 1425 01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:41,639 Speaker 1: to me and and interrupting us, um, But that's just lovely. 1426 01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:44,639 Speaker 1: You know that's lovely. But then I can also escape 1427 01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:47,639 Speaker 1: it as lovely. I you know, I have friends like 1428 01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:51,360 Speaker 1: a Robin Williams or Henry Winkler or you know that. 1429 01:33:51,479 --> 01:33:56,560 Speaker 1: To spend time with somebody like that who can't go anywhere, 1430 01:33:57,200 --> 01:34:02,559 Speaker 1: do anything without causing a crowd it, I don't think 1431 01:34:02,600 --> 01:34:06,200 Speaker 1: I could live like that. How about the opposite? By 1432 01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:09,519 Speaker 1: being Harvey fire Stein, you get to meet people that 1433 01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:11,920 Speaker 1: you never thought you'd be able to meet. You had 1434 01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:15,720 Speaker 1: a couple of those experiences. Oh, all the time, all 1435 01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:19,200 Speaker 1: the time, and I usually embarrass myself. Did you have 1436 01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:23,479 Speaker 1: you watched Have you watched the what is it called 1437 01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:27,120 Speaker 1: the Offer that the new series about? No, I haven't 1438 01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:29,240 Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about? Right, Well, there's a 1439 01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:33,639 Speaker 1: scene with Mario Puozzo. He takes Mario Puozzo. Bob Evans 1440 01:34:33,640 --> 01:34:37,040 Speaker 1: takes Mario Puoso into a restaurant. I forget what restaurant 1441 01:34:37,080 --> 01:34:39,519 Speaker 1: it is that Frank Sinatra sitting there, and he tells 1442 01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:42,120 Speaker 1: him to not go over to the but he goes 1443 01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:44,719 Speaker 1: over to the table to meet Frank Sinatra, and Frank 1444 01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:47,760 Speaker 1: Sinatra screams and yells at him and calls them all 1445 01:34:47,840 --> 01:34:51,040 Speaker 1: kinds of horrible names and all that. That's that's me. I. 1446 01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:53,800 Speaker 1: You know, the first time I said, the first time 1447 01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:57,519 Speaker 1: I was seated with Meryl Streep, I think I tortured 1448 01:34:57,560 --> 01:35:02,080 Speaker 1: that poor woman. Be I had just written a catered affair, 1449 01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:05,599 Speaker 1: and I just if she would only do it, if 1450 01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:08,080 Speaker 1: I could just get out of starting cater affair, and 1451 01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:11,840 Speaker 1: I tortured them. She didn't have a chance. So so 1452 01:35:11,960 --> 01:35:17,760 Speaker 1: then the next celebrity I sit next to is um, 1453 01:35:17,960 --> 01:35:23,400 Speaker 1: what's the name? Uh Tom Tom, not Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, 1454 01:35:24,360 --> 01:35:28,120 Speaker 1: And so I decided, leave him alone, do not tort you, 1455 01:35:28,240 --> 01:35:30,639 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks. You're sitting in his tam one, Tom Hanks. 1456 01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:33,799 Speaker 1: Leave him alone. Don't say anything Tim. And I heard later, 1457 01:35:34,240 --> 01:35:36,160 Speaker 1: you know, Harvey didn't say a word to me. It 1458 01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:39,519 Speaker 1: was what's wrong with him? It's like I'm sitting there 1459 01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:45,360 Speaker 1: going hello, and Harvey's like ignoring me. So I'm very stupid. Okay, 1460 01:35:45,400 --> 01:35:48,559 Speaker 1: So you're saying, if you're in a public space and 1461 01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:51,559 Speaker 1: you see a celebrity, you will get up and talk 1462 01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:56,400 Speaker 1: to that celebrity. Sometimes they will and sometimes I won't. 1463 01:35:56,560 --> 01:35:59,719 Speaker 1: It doesn't whatever the choice I make, it's the wrong one. 1464 01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:02,720 Speaker 1: But There's that other thing about celebrities though, that I 1465 01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:06,519 Speaker 1: really love. My favorite thing about celebrities is that they 1466 01:36:06,560 --> 01:36:09,320 Speaker 1: all know each other because we all belong to the 1467 01:36:09,360 --> 01:36:13,759 Speaker 1: same club, you know. So, Um, the other night, Leah 1468 01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:17,080 Speaker 1: Michelle opened in Funny Girl and the place was packed 1469 01:36:17,080 --> 01:36:20,400 Speaker 1: with celebrities, and so there was celebrities saying hello this way, 1470 01:36:20,439 --> 01:36:23,880 Speaker 1: that way and all that, and and um, I'm so 1471 01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:26,880 Speaker 1: embarrassed to tell the story, but it's the truth. Drew 1472 01:36:26,920 --> 01:36:29,680 Speaker 1: Barrymore comes up to me and Oh, Harvey, how have 1473 01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:31,719 Speaker 1: you been? And I'm thinking to myself, Oh, we belonged 1474 01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:34,840 Speaker 1: to this club together, asshole that am We made a 1475 01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:41,440 Speaker 1: movie together. We we we spent weeks together on a movie. Um, 1476 01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:44,680 Speaker 1: we had a whole relationship with each other. I just 1477 01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:50,040 Speaker 1: haven't seen her in years, but you know that's me. Okay. 1478 01:36:50,120 --> 01:36:53,719 Speaker 1: Another thing that's very interesting in the book You take 1479 01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:58,160 Speaker 1: down Bill Maher. Now, Bill Maher is known for being 1480 01:36:58,400 --> 01:37:03,200 Speaker 1: very self satisfied, and a lot of people have been 1481 01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:07,120 Speaker 1: wanting to take him down. The experience you mentioned is 1482 01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:10,640 Speaker 1: very clear cut in terms of what was said and 1483 01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:13,240 Speaker 1: what was done. But to what degree did you say 1484 01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:15,000 Speaker 1: I want to put this in the book, And I 1485 01:37:15,040 --> 01:37:23,439 Speaker 1: want to mention him specifically. Um, I think you're right. 1486 01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:28,600 Speaker 1: I don't like the man. Um. I find him just disgusting. 1487 01:37:29,160 --> 01:37:31,519 Speaker 1: And yet, in a funny way, you almost have to 1488 01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:34,599 Speaker 1: check in with him every now and then to see 1489 01:37:34,600 --> 01:37:37,080 Speaker 1: what he's saying, because he does have a certain voice 1490 01:37:37,320 --> 01:37:39,400 Speaker 1: and people do listen to him, and I want to 1491 01:37:39,400 --> 01:37:42,479 Speaker 1: hear what he's saying, even though I always think he's 1492 01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:46,880 Speaker 1: so fucking wrong. He's so uh. This week he talked 1493 01:37:46,920 --> 01:37:53,840 Speaker 1: about the Santis sending the the immigrants to and he 1494 01:37:53,880 --> 01:37:58,240 Speaker 1: thought it was great. Right, Oh, he's been so well, yeah, 1495 01:37:58,320 --> 01:38:00,800 Speaker 1: they're complaining. Look at that beautiful a beach, look at 1496 01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:03,840 Speaker 1: that beautiful town. He has no idea what it is 1497 01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:06,240 Speaker 1: to be a human being. He hasn't been a human 1498 01:38:06,280 --> 01:38:09,799 Speaker 1: being in so long. He only does his complain about 1499 01:38:09,960 --> 01:38:13,160 Speaker 1: cancel culture because he can't tell the jokes he wants 1500 01:38:13,200 --> 01:38:16,240 Speaker 1: to tell. He has no feelings for anybody else. He 1501 01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:18,840 Speaker 1: couldn't care less what anybody else feels like. He just 1502 01:38:18,880 --> 01:38:21,200 Speaker 1: wants to tell the jokes. But that's the way it 1503 01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:23,840 Speaker 1: is with an addict. I mean the man. I don't 1504 01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:27,400 Speaker 1: think that man has gone two days in his life 1505 01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:32,040 Speaker 1: without smoking marijuana. I mean you're a drug addict. Admit 1506 01:38:32,120 --> 01:38:34,599 Speaker 1: you're a drug addict, and then we can talk if 1507 01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:37,760 Speaker 1: you can't go a day without smoking, And that's his 1508 01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:43,680 Speaker 1: big issue is, oh I finally have my Marijuanaoa. You know, 1509 01:38:44,040 --> 01:38:46,800 Speaker 1: there really is more to life than than checking out. 1510 01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:51,040 Speaker 1: You couldn't try enjoying life. And then his attack on 1511 01:38:51,160 --> 01:38:54,320 Speaker 1: fat people don't even strove me. But anyway, I decided 1512 01:38:54,360 --> 01:38:57,960 Speaker 1: to tell that story more in a funny way for Lynn, 1513 01:38:58,439 --> 01:39:02,840 Speaker 1: for Lynn Redgrave, who I do bard, and she was 1514 01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:06,160 Speaker 1: so hurt by what he did that day. She actually 1515 01:39:06,160 --> 01:39:08,920 Speaker 1: went back and did his show again and never mentioned it. Damn. 1516 01:39:10,240 --> 01:39:13,680 Speaker 1: She was a much bigger person than I am. But 1517 01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:17,200 Speaker 1: I wanted to tell that story for Lynn and and 1518 01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:20,519 Speaker 1: for and for women period, because it's still true to 1519 01:39:20,600 --> 01:39:24,320 Speaker 1: this day. He still doesn't have women on his show. 1520 01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:27,840 Speaker 1: It's still usually three men or two men and a woman, 1521 01:39:28,479 --> 01:39:32,000 Speaker 1: or but it's never three women because he has nothing 1522 01:39:32,040 --> 01:39:35,920 Speaker 1: to say to them. I fucked them, I smoke dope 1523 01:39:35,920 --> 01:39:46,240 Speaker 1: off them, and life goes on. Well, speaking of THATTS, 1524 01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:51,080 Speaker 1: you talk about your own experience with substance abuse and 1525 01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:56,519 Speaker 1: twelve step to what degree? Well, there are two sides. 1526 01:39:56,600 --> 01:40:00,320 Speaker 1: What degree were you? You know? Hooked and then a 1527 01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:02,240 Speaker 1: whole hard was it to get off? But did it 1528 01:40:02,360 --> 01:40:06,479 Speaker 1: affect the work or really it was separate from the work. Yes, 1529 01:40:07,200 --> 01:40:12,559 Speaker 1: it does. Addiction affect your work. Absolutely. I did not work. 1530 01:40:13,040 --> 01:40:17,080 Speaker 1: I did not really right in that hole, there was 1531 01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:22,640 Speaker 1: a long slide of alcohol. Alcoholism is not something that 1532 01:40:22,760 --> 01:40:25,960 Speaker 1: starts one day, and well it did end one day 1533 01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:28,400 Speaker 1: for me. I just hit the bottom. But I at 1534 01:40:28,439 --> 01:40:31,080 Speaker 1: the bottom sitting in my garage with the car running. 1535 01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:35,000 Speaker 1: Not really a choice there, you know, It's like, okay, 1536 01:40:35,479 --> 01:40:38,120 Speaker 1: you and I already had alan on behind me, but 1537 01:40:38,360 --> 01:40:40,640 Speaker 1: so I'm sitting in a garage or I wake up 1538 01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:43,479 Speaker 1: the next morning because I was too stupid to figure 1539 01:40:43,479 --> 01:40:48,280 Speaker 1: out how to kill yourself. Um, and I said, okay, 1540 01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:50,960 Speaker 1: the what they predict in ALAN or what they predict 1541 01:40:50,960 --> 01:40:55,000 Speaker 1: in a A has happened. My disease wanted to get 1542 01:40:55,040 --> 01:40:58,000 Speaker 1: me into a room alone and kill me. It just did. 1543 01:40:58,479 --> 01:41:02,040 Speaker 1: It's time to stop taking charge and let somebody else 1544 01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:06,800 Speaker 1: take charge. Twelve step pros will tell you God takes charge. 1545 01:41:07,240 --> 01:41:10,120 Speaker 1: God to me is a group of drunks. G O 1546 01:41:10,240 --> 01:41:13,200 Speaker 1: D group of drunks. You all tell me what to 1547 01:41:13,240 --> 01:41:15,400 Speaker 1: do and I will do it. And that's what I did, 1548 01:41:15,720 --> 01:41:19,759 Speaker 1: so I never looked back. I had that last drink 1549 01:41:20,640 --> 01:41:23,200 Speaker 1: and have never wanted to drink again. I have never 1550 01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:27,120 Speaker 1: touched a drink again. I have no desire. And it's 1551 01:41:27,160 --> 01:41:31,519 Speaker 1: twenty it's going on twenty eight years. Um. And I 1552 01:41:31,560 --> 01:41:35,840 Speaker 1: gave up smoking soon after that, and then eventually Kathen also, 1553 01:41:36,680 --> 01:41:41,040 Speaker 1: so does it affect your work? Yes, because working I 1554 01:41:41,080 --> 01:41:45,559 Speaker 1: didn't work on alcohol. You you think you're writing something great. 1555 01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:48,960 Speaker 1: You know you're drunk and you're writing something great. This 1556 01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:52,880 Speaker 1: value had the funniest day I ever wrote. Oh my god, 1557 01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:55,280 Speaker 1: that's hysterical, and you look at it the next day 1558 01:41:55,320 --> 01:41:58,200 Speaker 1: and go, what is this ship? If you can even 1559 01:41:58,240 --> 01:42:00,559 Speaker 1: read it? Because you've scrawled in a cross the beet 1560 01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:03,000 Speaker 1: of paper when you were drunk, and you know and 1561 01:42:03,080 --> 01:42:05,880 Speaker 1: you don't even know it. Yeah, no, it was. It 1562 01:42:05,960 --> 01:42:08,599 Speaker 1: was not good for work. Um. I did a bunch 1563 01:42:08,640 --> 01:42:14,080 Speaker 1: of acting in those bad years. UM, and that wasn't 1564 01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:17,120 Speaker 1: too bad because you there's a lot of drunk actors 1565 01:42:17,400 --> 01:42:21,479 Speaker 1: that can't away with being drunk or drunk. There's something 1566 01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:27,040 Speaker 1: about being vulnerable. I think that comes out. But I 1567 01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:30,439 Speaker 1: also was a secret drunk. Nobody knew I was drinking. 1568 01:42:30,439 --> 01:42:34,960 Speaker 1: I didn't drink once I knew that. I drank only 1569 01:42:35,000 --> 01:42:38,000 Speaker 1: once I knew my day was over, even if that 1570 01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:41,080 Speaker 1: was noon and I wasn't going to see anybody else. 1571 01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:43,639 Speaker 1: That's the other great part about living in the country. 1572 01:42:44,040 --> 01:42:46,120 Speaker 1: Couldn't do that in the city. Somebody could always ring 1573 01:42:46,120 --> 01:42:49,280 Speaker 1: your doorbell. But living in the country, I could sometimes 1574 01:42:49,400 --> 01:42:52,200 Speaker 1: be done with all my day by noon and drink 1575 01:42:52,360 --> 01:43:01,559 Speaker 1: until the next day. Um. Yeah, anyway, I don't know what. Yeah, 1576 01:43:01,600 --> 01:43:05,360 Speaker 1: I got it. To what degree does your Jewish upbringing 1577 01:43:05,400 --> 01:43:11,479 Speaker 1: in Jewish sensibility affect your work? Oh, it's everything, It's everything, 1578 01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:14,920 Speaker 1: it says, you know, it's Uh. Neil Simon said to 1579 01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:18,120 Speaker 1: me in my dress room at tord Song. Notice how 1580 01:43:18,520 --> 01:43:21,560 Speaker 1: how acutely I have just dropped that name. Um for 1581 01:43:21,720 --> 01:43:23,679 Speaker 1: Nil Simon said to me, where did you come from? 1582 01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:27,320 Speaker 1: I said, A couple of blocks from you. Uh, it's 1583 01:43:27,479 --> 01:43:32,000 Speaker 1: it's it's there. I there's all kinds of reasons, and 1584 01:43:32,080 --> 01:43:34,560 Speaker 1: you know, there are hundreds of books on the subject 1585 01:43:34,600 --> 01:43:38,400 Speaker 1: of of the You know, I guess the bottom line 1586 01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:42,679 Speaker 1: for dramatists anyway, is put two Jews in a room 1587 01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:47,679 Speaker 1: together and you'll have three opinions, you know, or or 1588 01:43:47,720 --> 01:43:51,559 Speaker 1: as I say, put two rabbis together and what I'm 1589 01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:56,040 Speaker 1: gonna be agnostic because they both can't believe the same thing. 1590 01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:58,719 Speaker 1: If you believe this, I have to believe something else. 1591 01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:02,280 Speaker 1: And that is how were trained. I mean, did you 1592 01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:07,160 Speaker 1: have that? Did you have religious training? Yeah? So then 1593 01:44:07,200 --> 01:44:10,200 Speaker 1: you know that's how we trained. Is the idea. You 1594 01:44:10,280 --> 01:44:13,400 Speaker 1: argue this side, you argue that side, and that's how 1595 01:44:13,560 --> 01:44:17,479 Speaker 1: you learn the Bible. That's you know, the Christian Bible. 1596 01:44:17,520 --> 01:44:21,840 Speaker 1: There lectured, the lectured to fucking death. Memorize this crap, 1597 01:44:21,880 --> 01:44:24,880 Speaker 1: and you and they translated, and they and they and 1598 01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:27,720 Speaker 1: they they they they add are the meetings that have 1599 01:44:27,840 --> 01:44:30,000 Speaker 1: nothing to do with the written word and all that 1600 01:44:30,400 --> 01:44:33,559 Speaker 1: which I always laugh when I watched those those preachers 1601 01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:39,000 Speaker 1: who turned an innocent phrase into something else choose. I'll 1602 01:44:39,000 --> 01:44:41,920 Speaker 1: never forget. When I was sitting doing cottage with my father, 1603 01:44:42,120 --> 01:44:44,800 Speaker 1: which I didn't my brother did. Most of the days 1604 01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:48,360 Speaker 1: of cottage. I only filled in fam um. But one day, 1605 01:44:48,400 --> 01:44:50,880 Speaker 1: you know how they take one line from the from 1606 01:44:50,920 --> 01:44:54,320 Speaker 1: the Bible and they discuss it after join the morning prayers. 1607 01:44:55,000 --> 01:44:59,000 Speaker 1: It was a measurement of one of the pieces of 1608 01:44:59,120 --> 01:45:04,960 Speaker 1: wood to build the arc. And these old men sitting 1609 01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:10,000 Speaker 1: there drinking schnaps at seven in the morning, suspected our 1610 01:45:10,520 --> 01:45:16,600 Speaker 1: arguing what was the meaning behind that measurement? What I 1611 01:45:16,600 --> 01:45:20,440 Speaker 1: always say is Judaism is a questioning religion, and Christianity 1612 01:45:20,479 --> 01:45:23,519 Speaker 1: is didactic. Everything's up for grabs. The other thing, you 1613 01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:26,200 Speaker 1: put two Jews in a room, it's not gonna be quiet. 1614 01:45:27,080 --> 01:45:31,800 Speaker 1: So let's let's just go back to Broadway. So you 1615 01:45:32,280 --> 01:45:36,920 Speaker 1: is Broadway always up and down? Or if we really 1616 01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:40,000 Speaker 1: hit a different phase with there being so much money 1617 01:45:40,040 --> 01:45:43,759 Speaker 1: in it, a lot of non Broadway people, rock stars, 1618 01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:46,840 Speaker 1: etcetera getting Broadway and as you say, there are many 1619 01:45:46,920 --> 01:45:50,640 Speaker 1: fewer traditional plays and there used to be. What do 1620 01:45:50,720 --> 01:45:55,600 Speaker 1: you think about the future of Broadway? I think we 1621 01:45:55,840 --> 01:46:02,439 Speaker 1: just missed a great opportunity to invent it all. The 1622 01:46:02,560 --> 01:46:07,040 Speaker 1: COVID closed down was such a great opportunity to go 1623 01:46:07,160 --> 01:46:10,160 Speaker 1: back and say, Okay, we've gotten a little out of 1624 01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:14,280 Speaker 1: control with ticket prices. Now we've gotten a little crazy 1625 01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:18,800 Speaker 1: with the unions. Everybody's living very comfortably, that's very nice, 1626 01:46:19,200 --> 01:46:22,080 Speaker 1: but charging four hundred I was the ticket for a 1627 01:46:22,200 --> 01:46:26,320 Speaker 1: ninety minute show is a little nuts. Can we like 1628 01:46:26,720 --> 01:46:29,880 Speaker 1: unravel some of this? And we didn't. They didn't even 1629 01:46:29,920 --> 01:46:32,960 Speaker 1: clean the theaters. The Thetis was shut down. Maybe they 1630 01:46:33,040 --> 01:46:36,760 Speaker 1: changed the air of filters, you know they but they didn't. You. 1631 01:46:36,920 --> 01:46:38,360 Speaker 1: I would have thought they would have gone in and 1632 01:46:38,439 --> 01:46:40,800 Speaker 1: painted the dress rooms, but the actors all went back 1633 01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:42,960 Speaker 1: and this stuff was still sitting there, exactly where they 1634 01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:46,040 Speaker 1: left it two years ago. So I think we missed 1635 01:46:46,040 --> 01:46:50,799 Speaker 1: a great opportunity there. But you can't ignore it forever. 1636 01:46:51,720 --> 01:46:55,599 Speaker 1: It's gonna come, you know, you you, it's gonna bite 1637 01:46:55,600 --> 01:46:58,080 Speaker 1: you on the as. Eventually the truth has to come 1638 01:46:58,120 --> 01:47:01,439 Speaker 1: out and change will happen, whether you want change to 1639 01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:04,640 Speaker 1: happen or not. So I still think it's coming, just 1640 01:47:04,800 --> 01:47:09,640 Speaker 1: like whoever thought Phantom of the Opera would close? But 1641 01:47:09,720 --> 01:47:16,120 Speaker 1: it's closed or it's closing, whether you like it or not, 1642 01:47:16,120 --> 01:47:20,360 Speaker 1: nothing stays the same. It moves on, it moves on. 1643 01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:23,720 Speaker 1: So there will be a new day on Broadway. It 1644 01:47:24,120 --> 01:47:27,200 Speaker 1: will be what we say in twelve Steps, we say, 1645 01:47:27,360 --> 01:47:29,800 Speaker 1: I never let let go of anything without leaving claw 1646 01:47:29,880 --> 01:47:35,360 Speaker 1: marks Broadway. Believe claw marks out all those buildings. But 1647 01:47:35,439 --> 01:47:40,519 Speaker 1: it will change just because it has to, because it's 1648 01:47:40,560 --> 01:47:45,720 Speaker 1: not it's not it's not a concert. You know, Um, 1649 01:47:46,040 --> 01:47:49,439 Speaker 1: what's the name Elton John? They just figured out he's 1650 01:47:49,439 --> 01:47:54,040 Speaker 1: gonna personally personally take over thirty million dollars from this 1651 01:47:54,240 --> 01:48:01,720 Speaker 1: next tour. He's doing Springsteen, who I adore, charging the 1652 01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:07,200 Speaker 1: prices he charged for his Broadway show, you know, absurd. 1653 01:48:07,720 --> 01:48:10,000 Speaker 1: He doesn't need that kind of money to come out 1654 01:48:10,000 --> 01:48:13,360 Speaker 1: of his house. He doesn't need that. Why can't you 1655 01:48:14,120 --> 01:48:20,080 Speaker 1: do a show for because you love it? Why? I mean, why, 1656 01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:22,920 Speaker 1: why does everything have to be about money? And why 1657 01:48:23,040 --> 01:48:26,320 Speaker 1: is a thousand dollars a ticket? Because I bought two 1658 01:48:26,360 --> 01:48:28,280 Speaker 1: tickets for my brother to see the show for a 1659 01:48:28,280 --> 01:48:30,760 Speaker 1: birthday president of thousand, and I was getting you know, 1660 01:48:30,840 --> 01:48:33,960 Speaker 1: I wasn't getting kicked up to the high prices I 1661 01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:37,040 Speaker 1: was getting from the theater owner, who's one of my 1662 01:48:37,080 --> 01:48:40,360 Speaker 1: best friends. I was getting a decent price. And it 1663 01:48:40,479 --> 01:48:44,120 Speaker 1: was nine something per ticket plus the extra charges they 1664 01:48:44,160 --> 01:48:47,840 Speaker 1: put on it. It's not right. Well, let me just 1665 01:48:47,920 --> 01:48:50,679 Speaker 1: ask you. Just staying on that point, we're not going 1666 01:48:50,720 --> 01:48:55,439 Speaker 1: into Springsteen Renny specific shows, not that I'm unwilling to 1667 01:48:55,520 --> 01:49:00,400 Speaker 1: do that. What many people say Hamilton's being the bestis ample. 1668 01:49:01,479 --> 01:49:04,840 Speaker 1: If we don't charge that price, the money goes to 1669 01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:13,599 Speaker 1: the scalpers, right, That's what That's what Springsteen just said. Um, 1670 01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:16,400 Speaker 1: he said Why should the money go to the scalpers. 1671 01:49:16,400 --> 01:49:21,000 Speaker 1: Why shouldn't I get that money? Uh? I do think 1672 01:49:21,040 --> 01:49:25,080 Speaker 1: they can control that better. I think producers and theater 1673 01:49:25,120 --> 01:49:28,200 Speaker 1: owners would rather have the money in the bank from 1674 01:49:28,240 --> 01:49:33,080 Speaker 1: the scalpers and then turn their backs. But could they 1675 01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:35,040 Speaker 1: turn to a scalper I don't know that that would 1676 01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:38,120 Speaker 1: be legal or not and say you could only add 1677 01:49:38,200 --> 01:49:40,920 Speaker 1: this much to the ticket price. I don't know if 1678 01:49:40,960 --> 01:49:43,680 Speaker 1: that's legal or not. Well, there are ways to do it, 1679 01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:46,880 Speaker 1: restrict with paperless I don't want to Why don't they 1680 01:49:46,920 --> 01:49:49,080 Speaker 1: work on that while while we were closed down for 1681 01:49:49,160 --> 01:49:52,799 Speaker 1: two years? Why not put I could have a whole 1682 01:49:52,840 --> 01:49:57,760 Speaker 1: discussion about this. The irony is people don't want it 1683 01:49:57,920 --> 01:50:00,680 Speaker 1: because people want to scalp the tickets them selves. They 1684 01:50:00,720 --> 01:50:02,439 Speaker 1: want to sell it. This has been a big thing 1685 01:50:02,439 --> 01:50:05,679 Speaker 1: in the music business forever. I'm not apologizing for the acts, 1686 01:50:05,960 --> 01:50:09,720 Speaker 1: I'm not apologizing for promoters. But you would think the 1687 01:50:09,760 --> 01:50:13,240 Speaker 1: public would be on the same page. Well, no, because 1688 01:50:13,280 --> 01:50:14,599 Speaker 1: then I won't be able to go to the last 1689 01:50:14,600 --> 01:50:16,599 Speaker 1: minute and pay or no, if I buy tickets, I'm 1690 01:50:16,600 --> 01:50:18,400 Speaker 1: gonna get rid of my tickets. But let's not go 1691 01:50:18,439 --> 01:50:21,360 Speaker 1: down that avenue today, because ultimately We're on the same page. 1692 01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:23,519 Speaker 1: It should not cost that amount of I had a friend. 1693 01:50:23,520 --> 01:50:26,760 Speaker 1: I had a friend sit outside the Harry Styles um 1694 01:50:27,120 --> 01:50:30,920 Speaker 1: Theater the other day because she had a connection that 1695 01:50:31,040 --> 01:50:32,680 Speaker 1: was supposed to be able to come through with the 1696 01:50:32,720 --> 01:50:35,800 Speaker 1: ticket if a ticket, And she stayed there until the 1697 01:50:35,840 --> 01:50:38,320 Speaker 1: curtain went up, and the ticket never came through. And 1698 01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:40,880 Speaker 1: she because she couldn't afford the thousand dollars to see 1699 01:50:40,920 --> 01:50:44,360 Speaker 1: Harry Styles, who she really wanted to see. And it 1700 01:50:44,400 --> 01:50:48,280 Speaker 1: breaks my heart. It breaks my heart. Why shouldn't they? 1701 01:50:48,360 --> 01:50:50,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I went, you know, when I was a kid, 1702 01:50:51,120 --> 01:50:54,280 Speaker 1: I went to Carnegie Hall to see Buffy Sick Marie. Okay, 1703 01:50:54,560 --> 01:50:57,880 Speaker 1: not Eric Styles, but I went to see down of It. 1704 01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:00,519 Speaker 1: I saw Bob Dilly, and I saw I saw oh 1705 01:51:00,640 --> 01:51:05,280 Speaker 1: my heroes live on the money I can afford, you know, 1706 01:51:05,600 --> 01:51:10,240 Speaker 1: twenty dollar tickets Broadway. I mean, of course, I'm being 1707 01:51:10,280 --> 01:51:13,519 Speaker 1: silly now, But when I was a little kid, my 1708 01:51:13,720 --> 01:51:16,720 Speaker 1: family and I four of us, my father, my mother, 1709 01:51:16,840 --> 01:51:19,960 Speaker 1: my brother, and I two dollars and fifty cents a ticket. 1710 01:51:20,240 --> 01:51:23,200 Speaker 1: We sat in the first row of the balcony, perfect seats. 1711 01:51:23,200 --> 01:51:26,960 Speaker 1: You could see everything. For ten bucks. Fifteen cents was 1712 01:51:27,040 --> 01:51:30,880 Speaker 1: the Subway. Well I think it was sixty cents. But 1713 01:51:30,960 --> 01:51:35,880 Speaker 1: the problem is bigger than Broadway. It's about incomm inequality. 1714 01:51:36,280 --> 01:51:39,559 Speaker 1: I mean, no one had billions back then. Well there's 1715 01:51:39,600 --> 01:51:42,080 Speaker 1: also but there's also that. You know, we added the 1716 01:51:42,120 --> 01:51:47,240 Speaker 1: half prize booth, which is a wonderful thing. But I 1717 01:51:47,400 --> 01:51:51,960 Speaker 1: was a child seeing Broadway. Whether I went into theater 1718 01:51:52,160 --> 01:51:56,800 Speaker 1: or not, my life was changed by seeing Just if 1719 01:51:56,800 --> 01:51:59,759 Speaker 1: I saw nothing but Fiddler on the Roof, my life 1720 01:51:59,800 --> 01:52:03,280 Speaker 1: was changed by seeing a stage full of Jews. Can 1721 01:52:03,320 --> 01:52:07,400 Speaker 1: you imagine the kid who's went to see whose kids, 1722 01:52:07,439 --> 01:52:10,519 Speaker 1: whose life is not so good, who went to see 1723 01:52:10,520 --> 01:52:14,519 Speaker 1: Hamilton's and had his life changed? Do you know how 1724 01:52:14,520 --> 01:52:18,000 Speaker 1: many lives Hamilton's can change? And I know they've got 1725 01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:21,680 Speaker 1: it on Disney Plus, it's not the same. It's not 1726 01:52:21,840 --> 01:52:25,000 Speaker 1: the same. It's not it's not having seen in a 1727 01:52:25,080 --> 01:52:28,040 Speaker 1: number of times with the original casts and subsequent casts. 1728 01:52:28,120 --> 01:52:35,800 Speaker 1: It's different. But what's this bit about you're retired. Oh well, 1729 01:52:35,840 --> 01:52:40,720 Speaker 1: I like to joke that I'm retired. I mean, it 1730 01:52:40,760 --> 01:52:43,439 Speaker 1: would take a lot to get me to do eight 1731 01:52:43,439 --> 01:52:46,400 Speaker 1: shows a week. I'd have to really love the play 1732 01:52:46,479 --> 01:52:51,839 Speaker 1: because it is hard to do eight shows a week. Um, 1733 01:52:51,880 --> 01:52:54,160 Speaker 1: you know working. I mean, who else works six days 1734 01:52:54,160 --> 01:52:56,439 Speaker 1: a week the way you know us theater people do 1735 01:52:56,800 --> 01:53:00,559 Speaker 1: and eight shows a week is hard, you know, But 1736 01:53:00,560 --> 01:53:03,879 Speaker 1: but there are things. I mean, I'm opening next week 1737 01:53:03,920 --> 01:53:08,920 Speaker 1: in Guys and Dolls at the Kennedy Center, and how 1738 01:53:08,920 --> 01:53:12,920 Speaker 1: about your commitment. I'm gonna be home every day because 1739 01:53:13,160 --> 01:53:19,519 Speaker 1: we prerecorded my role. They offered me the role of 1740 01:53:19,600 --> 01:53:24,120 Speaker 1: Big Julie, which is a fun role, but I said 1741 01:53:28,520 --> 01:53:31,439 Speaker 1: so he said, if you remember Guys and Dolls, they 1742 01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:35,200 Speaker 1: need a place to have the crap game. And so 1743 01:53:35,720 --> 01:53:40,920 Speaker 1: nicely nicely calls this guy who runs a underground garage 1744 01:53:41,720 --> 01:53:43,760 Speaker 1: and says, can we have the garage? Says here, you 1745 01:53:43,760 --> 01:53:45,559 Speaker 1: can have the garage. You gotta pay me up front. 1746 01:53:45,840 --> 01:53:48,439 Speaker 1: And it's a three page long scene of saying you 1747 01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:50,759 Speaker 1: gotta bay me up front. You gotta bay me up front. 1748 01:53:51,400 --> 01:53:54,920 Speaker 1: And so I record. I prerecorded it, and uh so 1749 01:53:54,960 --> 01:53:58,160 Speaker 1: I will be at the Kennedy Center. I think they 1750 01:53:58,240 --> 01:54:00,240 Speaker 1: don't even I don't even think I'm in the pro rap. 1751 01:54:00,400 --> 01:54:03,880 Speaker 1: I think you'll just hear my voice and people will 1752 01:54:03,920 --> 01:54:08,120 Speaker 1: realize it's me. Okay, Harvey, I can literally talk to 1753 01:54:08,160 --> 01:54:11,200 Speaker 1: you for days. You're so easy to talk to. But 1754 01:54:11,720 --> 01:54:13,599 Speaker 1: I think we've come to the end of the feeling 1755 01:54:13,640 --> 01:54:19,160 Speaker 1: we've known for today. Good. So I want to thank 1756 01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:23,080 Speaker 1: you Harvey for doing this. Uh you tell a great story. 1757 01:54:23,160 --> 01:54:26,599 Speaker 1: They're also in the book. You can get the audio version. 1758 01:54:27,120 --> 01:54:30,439 Speaker 1: So thanks again for taking the time. Thank you for 1759 01:54:30,520 --> 01:54:33,920 Speaker 1: having me. I realized it was also two hours out 1760 01:54:33,920 --> 01:54:37,480 Speaker 1: of your life. Okay, but it's also two hours for 1761 01:54:37,600 --> 01:54:41,760 Speaker 1: many people who don't have the access I have. Okay, 1762 01:54:41,920 --> 01:55:05,320 Speaker 1: till next time. This is Bob left sets