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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much

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Speaker 1: for tuning in.

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Speaker 2: Mommy, Who's who? Mommy? I love that?

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Speaker 1: Who's Who's that man over there in the corner, Why

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Speaker 1: it's the Willie Wonk of Ridiculous History. Our super producer,

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Speaker 1: mister Max Williams.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.

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Speaker 1: And over here in a different corner, in this corner,

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Speaker 1: in that corner, that's the one.

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Speaker 2: I'm in the snow brown And who are you?

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, yeah, I'm I'm Ben Bullen. They call me here.

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Speaker 1: We never say our last name. This may well be

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Speaker 1: a first.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if there was anyone out there blissfully unaware

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Speaker 3: of our.

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Speaker 2: Last names, and we've just ruined everything for them.

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Speaker 1: I think I think people are read onto this and

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Speaker 1: hopefully read onto part one of our exploration of the

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Speaker 1: preposterous history of artificial flavors now Noel. When we when

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Speaker 1: we last left you without a Dope beat the step two.

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Speaker 1: We spent a lot of time looking at the strange

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Speaker 1: evolution of vanilla and vanilla in which may well be

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Speaker 1: my favorite word of the week.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, chilling like a vanilla and villain that's here we

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Speaker 3: do is yeah, it's so and you know, and we

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Speaker 3: and we did decide to make this its own part

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Speaker 3: because the rest of the stuff that we have is

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Speaker 3: easily it's another episode which you're.

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Speaker 2: Gonna here right now.

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Speaker 3: But Vanilla does feel like the kind of foundation on

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Speaker 3: which the entirety of artificial flavoring is laid, and it

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Speaker 3: gets a lot more twisted and complicated, and even like

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Speaker 3: the set in the last episode for the Cliff had been,

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Speaker 3: there's a little intrigue, perhaps some industrial espionage type stuff, right, Yes, yes,

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Speaker 3: I did want to offer an apropos of something I guess,

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Speaker 3: a quick surprise for the top of the show, where

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Speaker 3: in last episode we started by expressing our wonderment and

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Speaker 3: appreciation of the Japanese KitKat bars and googling that and

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Speaker 3: looking for some places you could get those, and seeing

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Speaker 3: what flavors were available. I discovered that KitKat actually has

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Speaker 3: a sake, not at that tastes like sake, but a

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Speaker 3: sake that tastes like kit cat.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, has science gone too far?

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Speaker 2: I think it may have.

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Speaker 3: And this is their description for indulge in Kitkat's latest

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Speaker 3: and boldest creation sake flavored Kidkat exclamation mark. These Japan

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Speaker 3: limited edition kitkats are infused with sake powder and see.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, the Mobius strip just continues because now I'm

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Speaker 3: looking and seeing that it is in fact KitKat that

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Speaker 3: tastes like sake, but it comes in a package that looks.

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Speaker 1: Like a bottle of sake. But they do actually have

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Speaker 1: alcohol content.

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Speaker 3: Wow, there's a little caveats that uses zero point four

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Speaker 3: percent alcohol. Please refrain from serving if you are a

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Speaker 3: child or have difficulty drinking alcohol, meaning it could be

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Speaker 3: just enough to trigger you and get you.

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Speaker 2: Back on the wagon. Off the wagon, which was the

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Speaker 2: bad one.

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Speaker 1: I can't you know, I'm not the expert old wagons.

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Speaker 1: But the one thing, you know, this reminds me a

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Speaker 1: little bit of context funny story. So Brandy, my girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: told me recently. She was reading to me some warnings

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Speaker 1: in Japanese about these kind of treats with alcohol in them,

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Speaker 1: and there was one that translated roughly to do not

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Speaker 1: show to children. Yes, like it's weird, like don't show

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Speaker 1: it to them. But we should also say that the

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Speaker 1: kit kat is popular in Japan. It could be its

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Speaker 1: own episode. Honestly, because of the because of a weird

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Speaker 1: thing about language. It goes back to the phrase in

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Speaker 1: Japanese kito.

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Speaker 3: Oh so KitKat has some inherent meaning as is yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: so in Japanese who pronounce it kito kato, which sounds

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Speaker 3: a lot like kito katsu, which translates to fri wild

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Speaker 3: you will definitely win, oh Japanese.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But isn't katsu also like a style of thinly pounded

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Speaker 1: like chicken cutlets. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah katsu

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Speaker 1: means winning chicken wins winter winter chicken.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And this is uh, this is just a brief look

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Speaker 1: into how weird artificial flavoring is. Spoiler alert, folks. Uh,

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Speaker 1: chocolate does not naturally taste of sake, which is a

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Speaker 1: an alcoholic beverage derived from rice.

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Speaker 2: Correct, that is right, Yeah, fermented rice.

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Speaker 3: And we talked at the top of the previous episode

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Speaker 3: about how those processes that were initially designed to preserve

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Speaker 3: things ultimately led to like a sea change in like

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Speaker 3: flavor expectations and experimentations.

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Speaker 1: Oh, flavor Expectations is also a great name for your

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Speaker 1: next synth album.

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Speaker 2: Not bad.

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Speaker 1: We've been really searching for a name for a project.

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Speaker 1: Anyone out there has any suggestions.

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Speaker 3: Got a two person kind of electronic dancy experimental project.

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Speaker 3: Really Charlie struggling beating our heads against the wall, trying

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Speaker 3: to find a proper name.

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Speaker 2: But I'm going to put that on the list.

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Speaker 1: Ben's for an album name.

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Speaker 2: I take.

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Speaker 1: I think Huckleberry ain't bad though. Huckleberry's not a little goofy.

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Speaker 2: It's a little white.

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Speaker 1: It's a little dancy.

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Speaker 2: Well dancy, So I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know what, we'll work this together off.

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Speaker 2: Appreciate that, man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, to the matter at hand, Fellow ridiculous historians, we

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Speaker 1: tease this. We want to, with the help of several sources,

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Speaker 1: give you what Wisconsin would call the straight poop on

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Speaker 1: artificial flavors. They first enter the historical record in eighteen

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Speaker 1: fifty one. Modern Synthetic Flavoring and flavor Science. There's an

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Speaker 1: exhibition in London called the Crystal Palace. It's a Victorian showcase,

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Speaker 1: kind of like the World's Fair with all the world's

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Speaker 1: hot new technologies.

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Speaker 2: It's very.

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Speaker 1: It's very ted talkie, you know, different. Oh look at

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Speaker 1: this innovation kind of things, right, And if you're visiting

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Speaker 1: the Crystal Palace, you are also meeting a lot of

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Speaker 1: perfume experts from Paris, from London, all sorts of places

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Speaker 1: in Europe, and you will visit the stalls and you

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Speaker 1: can try candy. You can try candy the taste of

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Speaker 1: pear or grape, or apple or pineapple. And the thing is,

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Speaker 1: the candy flavor is not coming from the actual fruits.

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Speaker 1: It's coming from compounds synthesized in laboratories, all flavored with chemicals.

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Speaker 1: All these candies are flavored with chemicals that were discovered

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Speaker 1: not on purpose, but on accident by scientists in a

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Speaker 1: brand spanking new field called organic chemistry.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, basically byproducts of other experiments that they then kind

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Speaker 3: of oh, I'm gonna put that in my back pocket

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Speaker 3: for later, and then the next thing.

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Speaker 2: You know, this whole new industry.

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Speaker 3: I mean, because you're right, as a field of scientific study,

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Speaker 3: organic chemistry is relatively modern. And that's also a pretty

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Speaker 3: complex field. That is, you know, people specialize in that.

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Speaker 3: I think there was you could take organic chemistry classes,

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Speaker 3: like if you are like AP level type smart.

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Speaker 1: I have such admiration for chemists.

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Speaker 2: It's alchemy, man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is the it is the descendant of alchemy

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent and I still have nightmares about having

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Speaker 1: to calculate moles or whatever they're called. But that joke

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Speaker 1: for the chemist in the crowd aside. Could we really

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Speaker 1: quickly to sum up what the field of organic chemistry

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Speaker 1: is does don't have to do with structure properties and

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Speaker 1: kind of synthesizing things based on their molecular structure.

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Speaker 2: And then the number of you know, bonds or whatever.

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Speaker 3: They have in order to make something that has similar properties,

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Speaker 3: which can include flavor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the scientific study of the structure, properties, and

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Speaker 1: reactions of organic materials, which sounds way way more simple

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Speaker 1: than it actually is. I genuinely do have nightmares about,

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Speaker 1: you know, my time in the trenches of chemistry.

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Speaker 3: No doubt, and that was never my particular wheelhouse. But

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Speaker 3: I do you know, know enough, just enough about it

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Speaker 3: to be dangerous, literally dangerous. If I were trying to

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Speaker 3: mess with this stuff cold in a lab, I would

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Speaker 3: probably end up in a bit of a meth labby

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Speaker 3: explosion any kind of situation act, or you would accidentally

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Speaker 3: create the artificial flavor of pum quats or something.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean, certainly it's possible. Let's also not forget

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Speaker 1: that this was a time end of the nineteenth century

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Speaker 1: where there wasn't very much regulation.

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Speaker 2: Around this brand new field.

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Speaker 3: So it was almost a little bit more trickery in

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Speaker 3: certain ways. Like I don't know that it was necessarily

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Speaker 3: malicious inherently, but it was like they weren't exactly saying,

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Speaker 3: this candy has zero percent kum quat in it.

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Speaker 2: You know, this.

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Speaker 1: Candy is only red because of this gnarly chemical dye

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Speaker 1: that we used to make it that color.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The Crystal Palace ex phibition was very much a large

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Speaker 1: scale show and tell, you know, and they're like, well,

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Speaker 1: it's fair kind of situation exactly. They're like, hey, look

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Speaker 1: at this. Isn't this weird because you can tell this

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Speaker 1: is not an actual apple. Let's go to August Hoffman,

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Speaker 1: who was a member of the Royal Society, a distinguished chemist.

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Speaker 1: He analyzed the chemicals powering these imitation flavors, and he

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Speaker 1: made a report to the jury of the Crystal Palace Exhibition,

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Speaker 1: and he wrote the following He said, this striking similarity

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Speaker 1: of the smell of these ethos to that of fruit

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Speaker 1: had not escaped the observation of chemistry, So okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was. He also gave people homework. He said, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're smart, you will be the person who has

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Speaker 1: to understand the commercial possibilities of how these chemicals taste

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Speaker 1: of natural you know, agriculture.

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Speaker 2: That's absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: And you know, moving on a little bit into the

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Speaker 3: future where we get the soda fountain craze, you know,

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Speaker 3: of the pharmacies where a big part of it was

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Speaker 3: these young these kids, these show soshas and these greasers

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Speaker 3: come in and kicking it at the soda fountain and

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Speaker 3: get in there whatever it was cream sodas or their

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Speaker 3: egg creams or whatever. And a big part of this

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Speaker 3: was artificial flavoring in syrups, which, of course, the connection

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Speaker 3: between the history of artificial flavoring and syrups are they intersect,

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Speaker 3: but like syrups were initially made with like real fruit

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Speaker 3: extracts or real whatever, almost more like a jam or something,

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Speaker 3: you know. But then because of the reasons we addressed

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Speaker 3: in the last episode, artificial flavoring presents such an economic

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Speaker 3: opportunity to no longer have to worry about fresh produce

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Speaker 3: or things spoiling or whatever.

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Speaker 2: You can just use this this substance.

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Speaker 3: And a cream soda vendor told the Massachusetts Board of

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Speaker 3: Health inspector who was coming to take a look at

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Speaker 3: his I guess, you know, equipment or whatever for like

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Speaker 3: a health inspection in the eighteen seventies. That quote, customers

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Speaker 3: can't distinguish the artificial from the true fruit flavors, and some,

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Speaker 3: if properly made, actually prefer the imitation. But again, kind

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Speaker 3: of don't think they were differentiating. They weren't saying this

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Speaker 3: is artificial, this is all natural, which then became like

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Speaker 3: a badge of you know, branding in and of itself.

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Speaker 3: All natural, right, only natural. We'll get into the whole

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Speaker 3: natural flavoring thing, which well, yeah, and check out our

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Speaker 3: earlier episode. There are so many weird historical sodas for

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Speaker 3: some extra credit.

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Speaker 1: In most cases. In the early days, we see that

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Speaker 1: the first artificial fruit flavors involved single chemicals or simple

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Speaker 1: combinations of substances what we call esther's diluted in alcohol,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of writers of the time in these

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Speaker 1: early days of synthetic flavor science, they noted that these

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Speaker 1: pleasant fruity chemicals derived from substances that just smell terrible

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Speaker 1: on their own, including stuff like fusel oil. Fusel oil

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Speaker 1: which was a just terrible smelling waste product of fermenting alcohol,

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Speaker 1: and you combine them together right, and then they create

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Speaker 1: something that is actually enjoyable, And not every experiment was

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Speaker 1: a home run. We got to shout out this thing.

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Speaker 1: We found on popsi dot com in eighteen sixty four,

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Speaker 1: one guy, talking about the new era of flavor science said, quote,

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Speaker 1: artificial essences of nearly every fruit are made, some of

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Speaker 1: which are absolutely perfect in their resemblance to the real

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Speaker 1: fruit essence, while others leave a great deal to the imagination.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like for every one successful pineapple flavor,

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Speaker 1: they had a dozen just terrible mishaps.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent, and some of those mishaps or even

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Speaker 3: perhaps the additives and the ingredients that were not necessarily

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Speaker 3: the safest for consumers made it out into the market

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Speaker 3: because we did not yet have the Pure Food and

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Speaker 3: Drug Act, which is an important federal law that of

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Speaker 3: course established the FDA. Maybe didn't establish the FDA, but

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Speaker 3: they definitely were growing together in lockstep. I can't kind

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Speaker 3: of can't remember the chronology there, but the point is

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Speaker 3: a lot of these flavors, once they started flooding the market,

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Speaker 3: there started to be kind of a little bit of

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Speaker 3: concern right from the public about like.

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Speaker 2: Ooh is this safe?

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Speaker 3: Am I being like kind of low key poisoned by

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Speaker 3: this stuff?

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Speaker 2: Or is it just gonna taste kind of icky?

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Speaker 3: Or if it tastes really good, is that because it

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Speaker 3: has some delightful toxin in it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the age of yellow journalism, right of

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Speaker 1: the muckrakers, and so chemicals used in quote unquote fake

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Speaker 1: flavoring were often associated in the court of public opinion

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Speaker 1: with contamination, and food safety was a crucial political issue.

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Speaker 1: I would argue food safety is a crucial political issue

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Speaker 1: today in the United States. People were eating spoiled canned goods.

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Speaker 1: Upton Sinclair did not just make up the jungle on

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Speaker 1: his own. He was talking about this huge problem right

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Speaker 1: with regulation, and these journalists said, look how nasty the

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Speaker 1: production facilities are for your dairy and your meat, And

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Speaker 1: people reading this naturally started to become naturally, naturally started

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Speaker 1: to become just let it happen.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 1: Warry of chemical additives, preservatives, flavors, coloring, artificial coloring is

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Speaker 1: still a big deal.

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Speaker 3: Because yellow and a yellow five red for forty Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 3: not deadly, but not probably the best to consume in

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Speaker 3: large quantities a lot like things like saccarin artificial sweeteners,

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Speaker 3: which is its own thing. Where in certain lab studies

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Speaker 3: feeding tiny mice absolutely heroic quantities of this stuff sure

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Speaker 3: can cause them to develop cancer quantities that a human

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Speaker 3: being would likely to ever consume in a lifetime. Not

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Speaker 3: saying to discount these studies, but it is a little

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Speaker 3: bit of a thin thumb.

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Speaker 2: On the scale kind of situation here.

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Speaker 3: But did want to add that FDA, Federal Drug Administration,

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Speaker 3: was in fact created to enforce the Pure Food and

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Speaker 3: Drug Act of nineteen oh six, so absolutely lockstep with

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Speaker 3: those those items there.

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Speaker 1: And it was a very smart thing for Uncle Sam

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Speaker 1: to do because at this point in history, in the

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Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, without this regulation, a

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Speaker 1: lot of private manufacturers were using preservatives and flavoring and

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Speaker 1: coloring not to improve their product, but to conceal damage

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Speaker 1: or to conceal contamination.

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Speaker 3: It's like to make as much money as possible by

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Speaker 3: using the cheapest, most shoddy ingredients possible.

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Speaker 1: Going back to the old story about chocolate milk, right,

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Speaker 1: you know that one.

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Speaker 2: You'll have to remind you of that one. But wouldn't

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Speaker 2: you say.

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Speaker 3: This is also kind of in lockstep with snake oil

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Speaker 3: remedies and things like that using crazy amounts of alcohol.

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Speaker 3: Like I always think of the I Love Lucy Vitamina

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Speaker 3: veggamin commercial where it really is just tons of alcohol.

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Speaker 3: But there were folks that were putting forth these remedies

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Speaker 3: that supposedly could cure all kinds of stuff with absolutely zero.

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Speaker 1: Efficacy or backup. But yeah, Talma tell us about chocolate milk.

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Speaker 1: So the myth about chocolate milk is that dairy producers

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Speaker 1: would get you know, your regular milk, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's white ish, but then they would also get milk

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Speaker 1: that had blood clots in it or other fluids. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they still want to sell it, so they color it

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Speaker 1: differently and flavor it as chocolate.

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Speaker 2: That's a myth. Oh, this is like pink lemona and

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Speaker 2: cloud clown pants all over events.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So what we're saying is there are problems again

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Speaker 1: that need to be addressed. And this nineteen oh six law,

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Speaker 1: the Pure Food and Drug Act, had consequences for flavoring additives.

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Speaker 1: For the very first time in the United States. The

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Speaker 1: law created an imperfect distinction between natural and artificial ingredients.

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Speaker 2: Or products.

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Speaker 1: So products that were flavored with synthetic chemicals had to

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Speaker 1: clearly proclaim themselves as imitation or compound on their labels.

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Speaker 1: And it was meant to protect the consumers. It was

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Speaker 1: meant to say, hey, if you're buying something and it

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Speaker 1: tastes like a strawberry, but it's not made with strawberries,

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Speaker 1: you should be able to discern that.

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Speaker 3: And to double back to something I asked in the

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Speaker 3: first episode, I did just look it up. You mentioned

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00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:26,920
Speaker 3: compound or imitation, but concentrate is also another category, and

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Speaker 3: just to you know, put this out there if anyone

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Speaker 3: was wondering. It appears to be a substance that has

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Speaker 3: had most of its diluting agent removed, such.

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Speaker 2: As water from fruit.

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Speaker 3: So fruit juice concentrate is made by filtering and dehydrating

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Speaker 3: actual fruit juice to remove the water content. The concentrate

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Speaker 3: that's left over is then pasteurized and heated and frozen

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Speaker 3: and transported before the water is added back. So that

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Speaker 3: isn't technically artificial, but it also has a similar kind

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Speaker 3: of wrap in a way, the idea of concentrating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly right, Because again it's the court of

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Speaker 1: public opinion or I would even say, the court of

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Speaker 1: public comfort, how comfortable are we with purchasing and ingesting

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Speaker 1: these things? And you know, the folks in the flavor

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Speaker 1: extraction or manufacturing industry at this point, the ones who

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Speaker 1: are reputable, the ones who are not trying to grift

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Speaker 1: or sell snake oil or dangerous chemicals. They were pretty

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Speaker 1: on board with this law in nineteen oh.

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Speaker 3: Six, as they should be, because it's like it levels

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Speaker 3: the playing field and it makes it where there can't

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Speaker 3: be bad actors that are going to mess with their customers,

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Speaker 3: and it allows them to kind of rise above the

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Speaker 3: fray as being Look, we were doing this all along,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like there's no reason they

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Speaker 3: shouldn't be excited about them and these guys, to your point,

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Speaker 3: while they supported this nineteen oh six law, they also

349
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Speaker 3: had to weigh.

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Speaker 2: Campaign.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a pr blitz, we would call it against the

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Speaker 1: Court of public comfort. And they said, you know a

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Speaker 1: lot of these slurs against our industry are not based

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Speaker 1: on facts. Our products are not necessarily impure if you

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Speaker 1: think about it, they said, by the chemical definition and purity,

356
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Speaker 1: our synthetic flavors are much purer than.

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Speaker 3: The thing, the real thing, and what I was getting

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Speaker 3: at earlier, Ben was they I could see how they'd

359
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 3: be on board because it'd give that they gave them

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00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 3: an opportunity to kind of say it was these other

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Speaker 3: fly by night type operations that were the bad actors.

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Speaker 2: We've had your best interest at heart from the start.

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Speaker 3: Now let us educate you as now the newly minted

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00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 3: kind of like authority on the subject, at least in

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Speaker 3: the marketplace kind of right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, you're absolutely right, Noll. It was such a

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00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 1: big deal that they formed a trade group called the

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Speaker 1: Flavor and Extract Manufacturers Association. The first FEMA.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Not to be confused with the other FEMA, you know,

371
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 3: with the disaster relief and all of that they did.

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Speaker 3: They joined their powers, you know, they touched rings Wonder

373
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Speaker 3: Twins style, only there were three of them, and they

374
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 3: decided to combine their powers. Combined, they are captain Planet

375
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 3: in the form of an organized, very targeted ad campaign.

376
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Speaker 3: Did you mentioned already some version of this, but at

377
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 3: this point this was like the big push where they

378
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 3: all combined their powers to combat these negative public opinions

379
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 3: about artificial flavors with terms like adulterants, food poisoners and

380
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Speaker 3: drug dopsters.

381
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Speaker 2: Being flung around, you know.

382
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 1: The public, this idea of like, oh, they're all the crooks,

383
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 1: a bunch of crooks trying to poison us. Yeah, exactly,

384
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: this was very much a Wild West situation. We'd like

385
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Speaker 1: to introduce you to get ready for this name ridiculous historians.

386
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Speaker 1: Alois Vaughan, I Isakovic's.

387
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Speaker 2: Also his company name is dope. Yeah. He founded a company.

388
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Speaker 3: He was a chemist and founded this company called Sinfleuur. Yes,

389
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 3: it's very sci fi, very Isaac Asimov.

390
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: And he was on board with this nineteen oh six law.

391
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Speaker 1: He was kind of the Steve Jobs of synthetic aromatic

392
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: chemical companies, and he said, you know what, the great

393
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: thing about this pure food and drug act is it's

394
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 1: increasing the sale of all my stuff. In nineteen oh eight,

395
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: he wrote the following, Noel, can you give us a

396
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 1: cool voice for this one?

397
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 4: Previously the chemist did not get credit for the work

398
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 4: he did because many a manufacturer made a synthetic flavor

399
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 4: and labeled it genuine when it was in reality made

400
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 4: from synthetic substances entirely. Today the product is labeled truthfully

401
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 4: and sells just as well, proving conclusively that the public

402
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 4: will buy a product just as quickly when labeled properly.

403
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 3: And I think this is interesting because, like I said,

404
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 3: it did even the playing field where at least they

405
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 3: knew what they knew. Then everything was kind of regulated

406
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 3: in such a way where there weren't any of these

407
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 3: totally bad actors just sneaking horrible stuff into the marketplace,

408
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 3: therefore also contaminating along with the food, the reputations of

409
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 3: reputable companies, lumping them all in together.

410
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, very well. Put Man also Isakovic is advocating

411
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: in the public sphere. He's saying, look, synthetic flavoring isn't bad.

412
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 1: We are on the precipice of the future. And took

413
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: out to our point about an information campaign, took out

414
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: a lot of advertisements to try to win hearts and

415
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: minds in a nineteen thirteen issue of a magazine called

416
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: American Perfumer and Essential Oil Review, kind of a trade publication. Yeah,

417
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: specific I love my subscription lapse.

418
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 2: I really got to get back on this. You gotta

419
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 2: get right on my guy.

420
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: But so he he helmed an advertisement that said the

421
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: following Vanillu.

422
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 2: Deer v a n I L L word Dee you are.

423
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: Vanilu door is the only material in existence that will

424
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: duplicate in its entirety the fragrance of the finest vanilla bean.

425
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: In fact, it is something better than vanilla beans an invitation.

426
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 1: Under the Pure Food Law, they were required to include

427
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: the very last part here quote it develops much finer,

428
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: more intense vanilla effects than the finest beans, owing to

429
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: the entire absence of impurities and resinous matter. So they're

430
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: trying to sell it as a positive, but the government

431
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: required them to explicitly point out this was not from

432
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 1: the actual vanilla bean.

433
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 2: That's right.

434
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 3: I do also like that caveat that, like disclaimer, imitation

435
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 3: is capitalized almost like God is in the Bible, and

436
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 3: I love that. It also kind of is a feature,

437
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 3: not a bug, because it's an indication that this was

438
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 3: all done on the up and up under the guidelines

439
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 3: of the Pure Food Law. So it had this sort

440
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 3: of built in comfort factor. It's like sort of like, Okay,

441
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 3: we're good because someone's looking out for us now and

442
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 3: no one can just you know, shove anything they want

443
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 3: down our throats.

444
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. So they're arguing against the idea of the real McCoy,

445
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: which is an episode we should do in the future,

446
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: the Hatfields and the McCoy's. The message here is clear,

447
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: synthetics can be better than the quote unquote real thing,

448
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: and so government scientists have to follow through on the

449
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: man dates of the Pure Food Law of nineteen oh six.

450
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: So these g men scientists have to distinguish authentic stuff

451
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: from synthetic stuff. And this gets really complicated because vanillin, which,

452
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: as we found in part one of this episode, vanillain,

453
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: was synthesized in the eighteen seventies, but the synthetic chemical

454
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: itself is identical to the molecule found in nature. It's

455
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: kind of like comparing natural diamonds to lab created diamonds.

456
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 1: They're pretty much the same thing.

457
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: Which has now become kind of known, right. Isn't that

458
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 3: really wrecking shop a little bit in the diamond industry,

459
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 3: where now they can make lab grown diamonds that, for

460
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 3: all intents and purposes, are just as pretty, just as

461
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 3: shiny and and remarkable as the real ones, but also

462
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 3: don't cause people to lose their lives. And you know,

463
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 3: it just seems like a no brainer. But there's also

464
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: part of the weird thing that humans do where they

465
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 3: only want something if it causes somebody else to suffer.

466
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: Ooh, I am profoundly disturbed by how deep that observation is.

467
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: There's something gross, right, you're right. So, speaking of complicated relationships,

468
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: we also know that there was a strange sort of

469
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 1: retro active recognition, so the relationship between a flavored chemical

470
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: in a given additive and the genuine article it was impersonating.

471
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: These were often unknown. Perhaps the best example is something

472
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: called methyl anthnihilate. It was widely used to make grape

473
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: flavored candy and other you know, sodas and stuff. It

474
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: was used for like ten years before someone found the

475
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: chemical in actual grapes. This is a very true case

476
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: of faking it till you make it. And we know

477
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: that before the late nineteen thirties, people were kind of

478
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: just freestyling on the idea of flavored chemicals. And this

479
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they were bad. It just means that the

480
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: idea of taste is quite complex the science. Everything you

481
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: taste that may have a distinctive you know, mouthfeel, or

482
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,719
Speaker 1: distinctive aroma or flavor, it's going to be the result

483
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: of dozens or hundreds of different chemicals. Each of these

484
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: is usually in the natural world, present in very very

485
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: small quantities like parts per million or even less. And

486
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: flavor chemicals also, they're trying to impersonate this very nuanced agglomeration,

487
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: and they can be volatile and reactive. It took a

488
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: lot of work to do this, but humanity soldiered on.

489
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: As more and more food was produced in factories, the

490
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: demand for flavor additives just increased because, like you were

491
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: saying earlier in episode, what processed food has a lot

492
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: of high heat and other conditions involved in its production.

493
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: They change the way the food looks, taste, or smells,

494
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: and they usually change it for the worst. Shout out

495
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: to anyone who's eating an MRI.

496
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, I know, you're always I don't know if

497
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 3: you're singing their praises exactly, you're singing something about them,

498
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: if they fascinate you, I know, And I don't think

499
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 3: I've never actually had a chance to try one.

500
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: We have to, I do. We should do an MRI

501
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: date sometime. That sounds weird, are you in? Yeah, I

502
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 2: don't know.

503
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 3: Probably the condition won't allow it. I think they'll probably

504
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 3: kill him dead on the spot. Whatever is in those.

505
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: I can't have any preservative.

506
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 5: They will literally will those things are ninety preservative.

507
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: That's like the whole point of an mre.

508
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 5: Right, that's like that's where all the calories come from. Yes, preservative.

509
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: Okay, well, will you hang out and watch us? Seat mrs.

510
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: That's a little kinky. I don't know nothing weird.

511
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 6: I'm gonna watch you, but we got I'm gonna wait

512
00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 6: for you all look away. I'm gonna inject you with

513
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 6: condition beforehand.

514
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: You can't weaponize the condition.

515
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: I can do whatever, though, Okay, all right, I don't

516
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: know if it's you don't have the chops or the

517
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: or the stones.

518
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: So I gotta say really quickly though.

519
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: But I did promise a taste of some intrigue, and

520
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: I just wanted to mention I'd love to just have

521
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 3: a quick, you know, chat about this, the idea of

522
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: secret ingredients. Yes, so I found this article from the

523
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 3: Center for Science in the Public Interest from March nineteenth

524
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,959
Speaker 3: of this year. Actually, secret ingredients lurk in food hidden

525
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 3: as artificial flavor. In quotes natural flavor and spices. Because

526
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 3: we know the whole lore behind you know, our fabled

527
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 3: Coca Cola company here in Atlanta, the idea that the

528
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 3: secret ingredients for the coke, flavor, the syrup or whatever

529
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 3: can never be all of it, can't be in one

530
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 3: place at the same time, or like the two executives

531
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 3: that possess it, can't be on the same plane or something,

532
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 3: you know, crazy stuff like that, And that's a proprietary

533
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 3: trade secret.

534
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: But ah does the FDA know?

535
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 4: They must?

536
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not a wonder.

537
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 3: So there's this loophole apparently that the FDA allows that

538
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 3: allows companies to use terms like natural flavors, artificial flavors,

539
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 3: et cetera. These terms that were baked into the Federal Food,

540
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 3: Drug and Cosmetic Act, which otherwise required specific ingredients to

541
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: be like listed, you know, on on the label. They

542
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: are allowed to use these catch all terms to disguise

543
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: specific ingredients. But then the question becomes, and that's posed

544
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 3: by this article, who decides when a flavor substance is safe?

545
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 3: And the short answer here is that it's largely up

546
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: to food manufacturers to decide to paths to choose. One

547
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 3: is for coming to submit a formal food added petition

548
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 3: to the FDA that includes information that substantiates the safety

549
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 3: of the substance of the ingredients or the FDA can

550
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 3: perform a safety assessment on the substance that I guess

551
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 3: doesn't require them to know exactly what's in it.

552
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also the idea of the secret recipe depends

553
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: upon not just the ingredients, but the order of operations,

554
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: the combinations right, the temperatures, the applications, So that part

555
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: can still say secret. A lot of the research from

556
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: these early flavor companies was proprietary. It was their secret sauce.

557
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 2: It was a black box. Yeah.

558
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 3: And it is the last thing quote from the CSPI,

559
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 3: which was the Center for Science in the Public Interest

560
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 3: here just saying American consumers are likely laboring under the

561
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: false impression that the FDA reviews and affirms the safety

562
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 3: to the flavor additives used in food. The fact of

563
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 3: the matter is that the FDA has largely abandoned its

564
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 3: role in approving new flavor chemicals and has handed its

565
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: authority over to the food companies themselves, which is an

566
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 3: obvious conflict of interest and keeps consumers from knowing what's

567
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 3: in their food.

568
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and youre's your intrigue there it is.

569
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: You can also speaking of intrigue, you can hear war

570
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 1: stories from scientists in the trenches of the early days

571
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: of synthetic flavoring, Folks like James Broderick, who said when

572
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: he began his career as a flavor chemist in the

573
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, he was on a hunt. He was given

574
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: one of those situations where it's like, this is your mission,

575
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: should you choose to accept it? But instead of overthrowing,

576
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 1: you know, a far flung country, he had to find

577
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: a peach flavor made by a company out of Cincinnati

578
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: called Fries and Fries. He and a team of chemists

579
00:34:54,120 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: tried repeatedly and failed repeatedly to duplicate this artificial peach flavor.

580
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: This was like corporate espionage level kind of stuff. So

581
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: there's a lot of weird things here, but we have

582
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: to remember that the science of artificial flavoring, the history

583
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: of artificial flavoring, like so much great scientific innovation, it

584
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: comes through accident. You're aiming for one thing, you hit

585
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: another target. Our buddy Broderick learned that one of the

586
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: essential components in this peach flavor he was pursuing was

587
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: made by accident. It was a mistake in the processing

588
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: of castor oil, and when they messed up the castor

589
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: oil process. The chemist looked around and they were like,

590
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: why does this whole room reek of peaches?

591
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 3: I wouldn't mind that. I like the smell of beaches. Yeah,

592
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 3: peaches for me, right, peaches for free? Yeah, millions of beaches.

593
00:35:55,160 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 3: And another here's a gross part though. Another secret component

594
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 3: in this peach flavor from fries and fries was apparent,

595
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 3: and fries is great.

596
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 2: I just want that to be a restaurant that only

597
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 2: sells and yes there.

598
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: One of the other key players in their artificial peach

599
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 1: flavor was an alcohol soaked wedge of cheese that they

600
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: left by a basement furnace.

601
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 3: EO, mommy, indeed I can smell it, or just that

602
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 3: description little acrid, I think probably like dirty diaper vibes

603
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 3: would probably be in effect.

604
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 6: Now.

605
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: The flavor industry obviously continues in the modern day, shows

606
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: no signs of becoming any less cool nor any less ridiculous.

607
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: But noel Max before go the promised banana mystery, The.

608
00:36:58,680 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 1: Promised banana mystery.

609
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: Gotta do it.

610
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: We've got it, like we've all we're adults, we've all

611
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: eaten banana flavored candy. Just out of context. I'm going

612
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: to keep that sentence. I'm gonna post that somewhere. We're

613
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: all adults. We've all eaten banana flavored candy.

614
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 2: Put it on a slap it on a bumper sticker.

615
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 5: I can't eat banana conditions.

616
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the candy, No, I can't sure. The candy.

617
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 5: Is like, literally, it is.

618
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,439
Speaker 2: Kryptonite Russian basically. Yeah, it's a group.

619
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 5: Maybe it hits, maybe it doesn't.

620
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: That's fun.

621
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: It's for the kids, Colin. Let's play a little culinary

622
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: Russian roulette.

623
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: But no, it is weird, right that.

624
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 3: Like you know, I mentioned at the top of the

625
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 3: show episode one, I like a grape flavored soda, but

626
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 3: I don't particularly care for a grape and I think

627
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 3: that's largely because of the texture. I don't like the popping.

628
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 3: But yet I also like caviar and I like boba,

629
00:37:58,719 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: So what's wrong with me?

630
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: Now? Same deal with banana banana flavor and the flavor

631
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: of a banana, a ripe banana and a banana shaped

632
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: tiny runt, you know, you know the ones.

633
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 2: There's an essence, there's a vibe that they share, but

634
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: that's about it, and.

635
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 3: It's almost like an illusory kind of like vibe of

636
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 3: the mind where it's like, because it's shaped like a banana,

637
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 3: you sort of think it tastes a little like a banana,

638
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 3: but really couldn't be farther from the truth, And it

639
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 3: turns out that it actually goes the other way around.

640
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 3: Modern bananas don't taste the way bananas used to, and

641
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 3: the candy is what they used to taste like.

642
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: Kind of right, Yeah, that's that's the myth. And we've

643
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: talked about it in previous episodes. Also next at some point,

644
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to say yes to some sort of

645
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: food you have to you gotta eat, Max.

646
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, you got some gluten free bread, I got you.

647
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: There's some really good gluten free bakeries here in town.

648
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, gluten free. Yeah yeah, just some gluten free pastries.

649
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 6: To be completely off topic, but relevant to what we're

650
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 6: talking about right here. When I was actually in New York,

651
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 6: I deviated from the condition because, as both y'all know,

652
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 6: it's not a permanent condition.

653
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 5: Temporary it comes in. It's just like, well it's good, Well.

654
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 2: It came run.

655
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 6: No, yeah, it'll it'll It'll go away at one point

656
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 6: and I'll be back to normal.

657
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 5: And so I ate some street hot dogs in New

658
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 5: York and and I'm still still a live.

659
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 2: I'm just glad that you survived, Max, that's all.

660
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: And with this.

661
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 2: We have to bust the myth. So the story goes,

662
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: am I a sucker? Was I suckered man? Because I

663
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: think I believed this? Yeah? Give it to us.

664
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: So there was an older There are many varieties of banana, right,

665
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 1: just like there are many kinds of tubers. Uh. The

666
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: gross Michelle g R O S M I c h

667
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: E L translates to Big Mike.

668
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 2: Big Michael.

669
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Big Mike. The Big Michael was once the

670
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: go to banana in the you know, like the days

671
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: when United Fruit was overthrowing Latin American democracies. You would

672
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: buy Big Mics if you bought a banana and a

673
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: grocery store. But they got wiped out by something or

674
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: they got devastated by something called Panama disease or Fusarium oxysporum,

675
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: and it absolutely laid waste to the at scale agriculture

676
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: of Big Mic bananas. And so the myth goes, or

677
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: the legend goes, that to keep people on board with bananas,

678
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: the producers created a new strain of banana, the cavendish

679
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 1: and this is this part's true. This is probably the

680
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: banana that you see at your local grocery store. It's

681
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: entirely made to resist that Panama disease, and it tastes different.

682
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: A lot of old school folks will tell you it

683
00:40:55,520 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: doesn't taste as good. The story goes that artificial flavoring

684
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: had already successfully emulated the big mic banana and they's

685
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: taken holds right, Yeah, which is why change it up right. Also,

686
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: flavor science is super complicated. Oh, wasn't too much of

687
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: a sucker. So yeah, we still call it a bit

688
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: of a legend, a myth in an origin story. But

689
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: it does feel like there it does have the ring

690
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: of truth to it to a degree, it does.

691
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: But the myth is this.

692
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: If we go to an excellent BBC article by Chris

693
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: barrenook Yeah, the Secrets of Fake Flavors from August to

694
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. This journalist interviews a synthetic organic chemist named

695
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: Derek Lowe, and Lowe says the thing is, banana can

696
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: be mimicked most of the way with a simple compound

697
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: called isoamal acetate. Many chemists know it as banana esther

698
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: and anyone who smells it immediately goes.

699
00:41:54,120 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: But na maybe not like the minions, Yeah, become aminion.

700
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: So the idea is that maybe this story of an

701
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: artificial impersonation of a banana that has passed, maybe it's

702
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: a little bit embellish because the chemist that we can

703
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: find as verifiable primary sources say there's not a lot

704
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: of evidence that the artificial banana flavor is based on

705
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: the legendary big Mic. There are still also big mic

706
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: bananas that are grown, They're just not at the same

707
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: scale as the Cavendish.

708
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 3: But it is basically still saying that this isomal ascetin

709
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 3: or whatever. When you smell it, it smelled more tasted,

710
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 3: more like the older, the original.

711
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 2: Variety of banana.

712
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 3: I guess when you smell a banana flavor, a banana scent,

713
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 3: I think it's psychological though we just associate it, even

714
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 3: though I don't know that I would say it really

715
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 3: smells like what a banana smells like. It's almost more

716
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 3: like banana pudding, like it's got a vanilla extra thing.

717
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 2: Layered on top of it.

718
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: I'm trying to just like, how do you describe an

719
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 3: artificial flavoring that doesn't taste like the food that it's

720
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 3: meant to mimic.

721
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: It's a real tricky thought experiment, right, yeah, yeah, And

722
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: let's end with this thought experiment. I like where your

723
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: head's at here, all right, I like where your pallet's

724
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: at here. Have you guys ever tried juicy fruit gum? Yeah?

725
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: It is juicy. I don't know that it tastes like

726
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 2: a fruit.

727
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 3: This idea of fruity flavoring, though, even that is all

728
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 3: wrapped up in the history of artificial flavoring. Yeah, and

729
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 3: juicy fruit is good branding because you know immediately what

730
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 3: it is, what you're signing up for. And we know

731
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 3: this was a great example of good branding and marketing genius.

732
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 6: I just want to jump in and give you know,

733
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 6: a really old family guy has some amazing jokes, and

734
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 6: there's the juicy fruit jokes.

735
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 5: Is amazing because Peter of juicefruit and his mouth, he's like, oh.

736
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that.

737
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: They should have they should have aimed for zebra stripe

738
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 1: gum on that. Oh yeah, I love fred stripe gum. Hey, everyone,

739
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: future Max here credit where credit is due. The joke

740
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: is actually for fruit stripe gum, not juicy fruit so

741
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: sorry for slandering your name juicy fruit, but I am

742
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: not sorry. Fruit stripe gum all right, back to the episode.

743
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,720
Speaker 2: And that also has a vaguely fruity flavor.

744
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 3: But you're right, Max, the that's in, Yeah, that's I

745
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 3: think they've come a long way in making the flavor

746
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 3: of gums last but a little longer.

747
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 2: But it's it's it's meant to be ephemeral.

748
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 3: It's never gonna That's one thing that Willy Wonka himself

749
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 3: tried to do was to have gum that would never

750
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 3: lose its flavor.

751
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

752
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,240
Speaker 1: One thing I personally love about the concept of juicy

753
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: Fruit is that it it's like the pursuit of happiness.

754
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: It doesn't specify what it's promising you. It's like that

755
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: that seafood restaurant franchise, Legal Seafood. What the heck does

756
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 1: that mean? Legal Legal Seafood has it's got to have

757
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: some weird commercial where they're saying, you know, you may

758
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: be wondering, is it against the law for us to

759
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: sell you these foods ass seafood?

760
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 2: The answer is no, absolutely not. We've done our homework.

761
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 3: And then wasn't there here in Atlanta for a little

762
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 3: while a place called like illegal Foods or something like that.

763
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 2: Ye may like crazy burgers, or it was a pop up,

764
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 2: or it was really good.

765
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Stephen Limberg, there you go, friend of the

766
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: past way you know. Oh yeah, I didn't hear about

767
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: that made a mean burger though.

768
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 3: It was a good burger. They would run out kind

769
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 3: of special burger. They would have make a certain number

770
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 3: of and run out every night. That's how you know

771
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 3: it's good. That scarcity model is a big part of

772
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 3: like food culture, which I think is interesting, you know.

773
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: And we went to our friends at the Daily Mail

774
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: and Mental Floss to learn a little bit more about

775
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: juicy fruit. What if you make a flavor so artificial

776
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: that it doesn't exist in nature. You have made something

777
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: that is not a natural fruit, but it takes to

778
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 1: fruit of some sort, and it does indeed taste juicy.

779
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: People have been trying to crack the code on juicy

780
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: fruit for quite some time. One guy in two thousand

781
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: and two, big fan of juicy fruit, emailed the parent

782
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: company directly and asked, like, hey, hit me to this,

783
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: what is this? Where can I find the fruit this

784
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: gum is based on?

785
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 2: And they're fny fruit?

786
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there, pr folks said the following quote. I'm

787
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: afraid we can't be very specific because, for competitive reasons,

788
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: again intrigue, we consider our juicy fruit flavoring formula to

789
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: be a trade secret. I can, however, tell you that

790
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: the mixture of fruit flavors and juicy fruit is comprised

791
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: of predominantly lemon, orange, pineapple, and banana notes, which is

792
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 1: a great non answer.

793
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 3: We haven't even gotten into the question of the ages

794
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 3: as to whether the different colors of fruit loops taste different,

795
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 3: or if it's just your brain convincing you that it

796
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 3: tastes more like lemon because it's yellow, or more like

797
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 3: a freaking blueberry because it's neon blue, or whatever like.

798
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 3: There is a whole other psychological component to artificial flavoring

799
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 3: that we haven't even really touched on too much.

800
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 2: But I would argue that with juicy fruit.

801
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 3: The name is where the flavor comes from, almost more

802
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 3: than whatever freaking chemicals in it.

803
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,800
Speaker 2: And the juicy part, y'all, it's just your own spit.

804
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 2: Sorry not to be gross.

805
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 3: About it, but it it encourages the production of saliva,

806
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 3: and therein lies the juicy aspect of it, you.

807
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, you were the You were the superpower in

808
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: the flavor all along.

809
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 2: Folks.

810
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: We can tell you that just to sew up the

811
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:49,760
Speaker 1: juicy fruit thing, when juicy fruit first hit store shelves,

812
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: it was eighteen ninety three. They people believe that the

813
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: prime mover of the flavoring here is something called isoamal acetate.

814
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: So back in this time, in eighteen ninety three, this

815
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: scrappy little substance, isoammal acetate was most commonly produced by

816
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: whiskey distilleries. And at the same time, now I'm doing

817
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: like a Charlie Day conspiracy board. At the same time, Illinois,

818
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: which was home to Rigley, obviously famous for gum and stadiums, Illinois,

819
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: produced eighteen million gallons of whiskey every year. So this

820
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: leads us to speculate that Rigly the company may have

821
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 1: purchased this byproduct isoammal acetate from these whisky distilleries a

822
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 1: and then like and then used it to flavor their gum.

823
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: So juicy fruit might be booze based.

824
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 2: That's fascinating.

825
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 3: And then just to tie this back into the banana mystery,

826
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 3: iso ammo al acetate is in fact the chemical compound

827
00:48:58,600 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 3: that we were talking.

828
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 2: About as well, that one the banana flavor.

829
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 3: The idea that the myth is that this was just

830
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 3: the more convenient way to generate an approximation of banana flavor,

831
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 3: rather than they did it based on the old you know,

832
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 3: the old model banana kind of went off the market

833
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 3: because of that fungus. So isomal acetate is banana is

834
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 3: known as banana flavor, So.

835
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 2: It's the same. What right?

836
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, absolutely correct. This is just the beginning of

837
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,280
Speaker 1: a crazy journey. We can't wait to hear your favorite

838
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:39,439
Speaker 1: artificial flavors, folks. I think we we anticipated this would

839
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: be a delicious rabbit hole, but maybe not to the

840
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: degree that we have gone into it. And thank you

841
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: as always for tuning in, folks. Big thanks to our

842
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,479
Speaker 1: super producer mister Max Williams, who slid us slid into

843
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: our DMS on the chat and said, as a heads up,

844
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: we are over fifty minutes now, Oh my.

845
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 3: God, it's not allowed for ridiculous sysy. No, this is

846
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 3: a bonus episode within the second.

847
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 2: Part of the two parter. Consider it that way.

848
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: We'd like to keep these bite sized for you, but

849
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: there was just too much to discuss in it Also,

850
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 1: since the first one was so heavily weighted in the vanilla,

851
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: it made sense to break it up that way.

852
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 2: Otherwise this would have been the longest ridiculous history of

853
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:21,919
Speaker 2: all time.

854
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 3: Huge thanks to Alex Williams who composed our theme, Eve's.

855
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: Jeff Christopher hasiotis big, big thanks to you, well, big

856
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: thanks to gab Loes, yay Aj Bahamas, Jacobs, Doctor Rachel Big,

857
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: Spinach Lance, and of course the juicy fruit of our show,

858
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland aka The Twister.

859
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks.

860
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

861
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.