1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: When the President of the United States says that he 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: can't win an election of every eligible citizen votes, we 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: should take him at his word and test his theory. 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton and this is You and Me Both, 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: where I get into some of today's biggest questions with 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: people I admire and find fascinating. Today we're talking about 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: an important, timely critical subject, voting. Now you might guess 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: I would be pretty focused on voting, but I would 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: be I think even if I'd never run for office 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: or held it, because when you get right down to it, 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: it is a power that every one of us has, 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: no matter who we are, where we live, how much 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: money we make, and if we don't exercise it, we 15 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: leave the field to people that don't agree with us. 16 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: So protecting the right to vote is an issue that 17 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: gets to the heart of every their issue that I 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: care about and all of the progress that we need 19 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: to make together. Today I'm talking to two guests who 20 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: really understand the power of voting. Stacy Abrahams, who you 21 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: just heard, the woman who should be governor of Georgia, 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: because let's not kid ourselves her election against Brian Kemp 23 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: was marred by blatant voter suppression, so she founded an 24 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: organization called Fair Fight to protect the right to vote 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: in Georgia and around the country. But first I'm talking 26 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: with John Legend. You know, if you watch the Democratic 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: National Convention in August, the Virtual Convention, you'll remember this 28 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: incredible performance. One day one look alicaus you will be 29 00:01:54,360 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: as you'll be. Oh. John wrote that song Glory with 30 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: the rapper Common for the movie Selma's. It won the 31 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: Best Original Song at the Academy Awards in John has 32 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: also won multiple Grammy Awards for his music to mention 33 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: an Emmy and Tony, making him the fifteen of only 34 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: sixteen people who have an EGOT and the only black 35 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: man who has achieved that Emmy, Grammy, Oscar Tony distinction. 36 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: He's also a very proud dad. He and his amazing 37 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: wife Chrissy Teagan have two wonderful kids, Luna and Miles, 38 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: and another on the way. But the reason I'm talking 39 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: to him today is because he's also a really strong 40 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: voice on issues of justice and voting. Last week, he 41 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: launched Free the Vote to raise money to pay the 42 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: fees and finds preventing over one million former felons in 43 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: Florida from sting their balance. I'm thrilled to be talking 44 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: with John Heve, my friend. Always a joy to see you. 45 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: I'm still smiling about the dinner we had at your 46 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: house pre covid um and and pre your latest news. 47 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: So give me give me a quick check in on 48 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: the whole family. Well, of course, Chrisy is pregnant with 49 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: our third child. She's having definitely her roughest pregnancy yet. 50 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: It's been a bit of a physical challenge for her. 51 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: Our doctor has her on bed rest right now, and uh, 52 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: we're just you know, taking good care of her. And 53 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: I'm trying to be home as much as possible and 54 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: help her as much as possible so she doesn't have 55 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: to move around and she can take good care of 56 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: that that little growing baby inside of her. Well, give 57 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: her a big virtual hug. You have been a staunch 58 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: supporter of not only candidates but causes. Where does that 59 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: come from, John? I mean, when you were young, did 60 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: you have some experiences that you really felt prepared you 61 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: or motivated you or was this something that you came 62 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: to later in life. Well, when I was young, my 63 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: parents first of all impressed on us that success wasn't 64 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: defined by how much you do for yourself, but it 65 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: was defined by how much you do for other people. 66 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: Part of that was kind of a Christian ethos, but 67 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: also just being good human beings. No religion has a 68 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: monopoly on that concept of being philanthropic, being generous, being humble, 69 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: caring about people who are struggling and and need your help, 70 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: but it came to us through a Christian ethos. They 71 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: also homeschooled us when we were kids for some of 72 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: our grade school years, and one of the things that 73 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: we would do as a family was we would go 74 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: to the county Public Library and we would kind of 75 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: be let loose on the library and we would go 76 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: and find whatever books interested us. And for me, from 77 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: a very young age, I always was interested in politics, leadership, 78 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: people who fought for justice. I particularly was interested in 79 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: act civil rights leaders and abolitionists who looks like me 80 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: and also were people who put their lives on the 81 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: line to fight for the rights of others. So I've 82 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: always had that conception, that ideal that those kinds of 83 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: people are the people we should look up to and 84 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: treasure in our society, and that if I had any 85 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: sort of success in life, I would try to use 86 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: it to be one of those kinds of people who 87 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: spoke out when I saw something, jus who tried to 88 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: fight for people whose voices are often overlooked. I wrote 89 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: an essay when I was fifteen years old in high 90 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: school that said exactly that that I I planned to 91 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 1: make Black history by becoming a successful musician and using 92 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: my success as an artist to get back and fight 93 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: for equality and justice in this world. And That's what 94 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: I've been doing since you were fifteen. Where did you 95 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: grow up? I grew up in Springfield, Ohio, a small 96 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: city between Dayton and Columbus. One. Wow, I love I 97 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: love that story about your parents dedication and determination to 98 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: you know, really set you on the right path. Did 99 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: you start being musical and singing in church as so 100 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: many people have, Yeah? Absolutely so. I grew up in 101 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: a Pentecostal church and my grandmother was the church organists, 102 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: my grandfather was our pastor, my mother was the choir director. 103 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: My dad was a deacon and taught Sunday school and 104 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: also saying in the choir and played the drums sometimes. 105 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: And so I grew up around a lot of music 106 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: and a lot of church, and that was my musical 107 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: foundation and remains a huge part of the story of 108 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: who I am as a musician. Well, let's talk about 109 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: your life as an activist, and certainly as someone who's 110 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: been involved in and supportive of political campaigns and causes. 111 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: I know that you've been particularly involved over the years 112 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: in protecting voting rights, making sure anybody eligible can actually 113 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: vote in practice, not just on paper. And you combined 114 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: your deep concern about incarceration and the injustices in the 115 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: criminal and penal systems with a real commitment to something 116 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: called the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, and your initiative Free 117 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: America launched something called free the Vote. And maybe you 118 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: could describe for our listeners you know how all of 119 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: this fit together for you. So let's start with how 120 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: I got interested in this issue. First of all, Um, 121 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: like many black and brown people in this country, I 122 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: had relatives and neighbors and community members who had gotten 123 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: caught up in the criminal justice system, including people as 124 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: close to me as my mother, but also good friends 125 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: that I went to high school with. Some of them 126 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: were in prison for a significant period of time. And 127 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: when you're a kid. I think your parents rightfully teach 128 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: you if you just don't get in trouble, then you 129 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: won't have to worry about those kinds of things. But 130 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: as you start to understand the system a little better, 131 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: you understand that it's not as cut and dry as that, 132 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: and it's not as fair as that sounds. For far 133 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: too many people, there's a different criminal justice system depending 134 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: on your poverty or lack thereof, depending on the color 135 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: of your skin, and how you're perceived by police and 136 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: by judges and by juries. All those things affect so much, 137 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: and we've come to think that these sentences that are 138 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: prescribed by law are just the way they are. They're 139 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: almost like their biblical or so so fixed that we 140 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: can't imagine an alternative. But what we have to realize 141 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: is those were all political choices that were made, and 142 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: they don't have to be this way. We're the most 143 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: incarcerated country in the world, so we've made policy decisions 144 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: that have been inhumane, and the consequences of that have 145 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: been felt throughout our society. And not only that. Every 146 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: time we've made the choice to spend more on policing, 147 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: more on jails, more on prisons, there's an oper tunity 148 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: costs because we're spending less on all the things that 149 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: would help prevent crime, help make people feel more safe, 150 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: help people live healthier, more productive lives in every other way. 151 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: And so Free America was born out of me kind 152 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: of discovering how big this issue was and how unjust 153 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: it was, through reading, through listening, through talking to folks, 154 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: and through there just the gut feeling of what I've 155 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: seen my family and neighbors go through, and then starting 156 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: to organize around listening to other people and trying to 157 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: find out where we could get involved to help. So 158 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: we went around and visited jails and prisons and immigration 159 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: detention centers and juvenile facilities. We also sat with district attorneys, 160 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: We sat with corrections officers, we sat with all kinds 161 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: of folks who had a stake in the system, and 162 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: everybody told us that it wasn't working, it wasn't humane, 163 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: it wasn't right, and we needed to change it. And so, 164 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: coordinating with organizations like the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition and 165 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: other grassroots organizing efforts, a lot of them lad by 166 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: formally incarcerated people, we started to figure out initiatives that 167 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: we wanted to get behind initiatives. We wanted to uplift, amplify, 168 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: get out there in the public conversation. I know, for example, 169 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: you went to um A court hearing in Miami back 170 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: in the fall, like last year, I think November, to 171 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: watch former felons have their right to vote restored, which 172 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: must have been incredibly Oh. I was crying a lot 173 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: of that day because just think about how many people 174 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: take voting for granted, how many people just can't be 175 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: bothered or or you know, there's all kinds of reasons 176 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: people don't vote, and some of them are are because 177 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: of voter suppression by the state. But you could just 178 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: tell that these people wanted to be part of society again. 179 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: They had made a mistake most of them. Most of 180 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: them were a lot older, and if anybody knows anything 181 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: about crime, most people's period of being prone to crime 182 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: is pretty much over by the time there. But too 183 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: often our society punishes them for so long, well after 184 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: the mistakes that they've made, and when they're completely new 185 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: people by that point. So some of these people were 186 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: forty five, fifty fifty five and hadn't been able to 187 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 1: vote for decades. The founder of f R R C. 188 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: Desma Meat. He is a returning citizen himself and had 189 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: committed a felony when he was young, and he hadn't 190 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: voted for thirty years. And these people want to be 191 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: a part of society again. They want to contribute. Desmond's 192 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: doing all these amazing things in this community, one of 193 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: the most exemplary citizens we could possibly imagine, but he 194 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: wasn't able to vote until this year. Voting is not 195 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: a privilege, it's a right, and it's a part of 196 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: being a citizen of this country because all of us 197 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: are affected by the laws that are written by our representatives. 198 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 1: All of us are affected by the decisions of our executives, 199 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: and all of us should have a say and who 200 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: those people are. Even if we've made mistakes in our lives, 201 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: even if we've harmed people in our lives, it's not 202 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: a right that should be taken away. You know. It's 203 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: interesting because after the amendment passed in Florida, the Republican 204 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: legislature tried to, you know, basically obstructed, didn't they. I Mean, 205 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: they said, okay, fine, you've served your time in prison, 206 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: that's okay. But some of you may have fines or 207 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: other kinds of restitution. So you're not going to be 208 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: able to vote until you pay all of that out. 209 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: How did that make you feel? Well, it's so enraging 210 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: and frustrating that there's an entire political party that has 211 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: built their entire political program on trying to discourage voting. 212 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: So anytime there's an expansion of the vote, anytime there's 213 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: an attempt to expand the vote, Republicans have decided that 214 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: it's against their interests for those things to happen, so 215 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: they fight it at every turn. In this particular instance, 216 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: the public voted sixty to thirty five. We're not talking 217 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: about a close margin here, and those those were voters 218 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: from everywhere, all everybody did that. The people of Florida 219 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly voted for an expansion of voting rights. But because 220 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: some of these institutions, like our state legislatures, aren't as accountable, arnest, transparent, 221 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: aren't as small d democratic in their response to what 222 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: people want, the state legislators wanted to maintain their hold 223 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: on power in Florida, and so they tried to devise 224 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: any tactics they could to reverse the will of the people, 225 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: and they found basically a loophole that if they determined 226 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: that you hadn't paid certain court fees and fines, that 227 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: you hadn't actually served your sentence. So essentially they're saying, 228 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: pay up or you can't vote. And we know poll 229 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: taxes are unconstitutional in America, but this was their way 230 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: of essentially charging people to vote. Some of them can't 231 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: afford it, and so what we've been trying to do 232 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,119 Speaker 1: is pay those fees and fines so these folks could 233 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: actually realize the gains in a suffrage that we fought for. 234 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: And so we've raised about million dollars with the help 235 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: of them really high net worth folks, but also tens 236 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: of thousands of ordinary people, individuals who have given what 237 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: little they can to help support these folks and extend 238 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: the vote to as many people as possible. We'll be 239 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: back right after this quick break. You know, there are 240 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people who don't vote for many different reasons, 241 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: and people who don't think it will make a difference, 242 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: people who don't believe that anything will change. They just 243 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: are at a stage in their life where it seems 244 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: like such a low priority. I'd love to hear you 245 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: really speak to people who may not yet be convinced 246 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: or may still be on the fence about whether they're 247 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: going to vote or not as to what they should 248 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: be considering that might encourage them to get out and 249 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: actually exercise that vote. Well, I think first of all, 250 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: we need to realize that this choice is not even 251 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: close when it comes to thinking about who would be 252 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: a better leader for this country, who would restore our 253 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: moral authority in the world, who would restore our credibility 254 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: in the world, that our word actually means something, that 255 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: we actually believe in science, that we can be trusted 256 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: as a partner to get major things done in the world, 257 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: as we think about climate change, as we think about 258 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: this pandemic. All of the solutions to these major problems 259 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: that the world faces require America to be a respected, 260 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: trusted partner in the world, and we are the opposite 261 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: of that right now. We're the laughing stock of the world. 262 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: I think climate change is the most pressing, most urgent 263 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: issue that we face in this country and in the globe, 264 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: and there's no way we make any progress on that 265 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: if Donald Trump is reelected, and it is guaranteed that 266 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: if Joe Biden is reelected and we have a democratic Senate, 267 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: that we will pass some version of the Green New Deal. 268 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: Joe put his plan up on his site, which I 269 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: think is robust and has been seen by a lot 270 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: of activists as a really strong plan that is critical. 271 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: And if we don't elect Joe Biden, I don't know 272 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: if we will ever be able to reverse the damage 273 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: that Donald Trump is doing and has done. That's enough 274 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: reason for me. Yeah, well, I know, I mean, that's 275 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: what you know. I think it's fair to say everything 276 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: that anybody cares about is on the ballot, and that 277 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: is on the ballot. Yeah, healthcare is on the ballot. 278 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: You know, better jobs for the future, you know, dealing 279 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: with the COVID vaccine issue. I mean, everything you care 280 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: about is on the ballot. And let's let's focus on 281 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: COVID for one second. Just look at what's happened in 282 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: other countries when it comes to death rates, when it 283 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: comes to overall spread of the disease. We have just 284 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: been terrible at it. And it makes perfect sense. We 285 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: have a terrible leader. He has no capability of thinking 286 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: long term about anything. He has no capability of thinking 287 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: about anyone outside of himself. He is a liar, He 288 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: is a conspiracy theorist, and he particularly doesn't care about 289 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: certain people, and a lot of those people are the 290 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: people who are being most affected by this, black and 291 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: brown people. So all of the things that would combine 292 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: to make him bad for COVID nineteen are present in 293 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. There's nothing about him that says he would 294 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: do a good job handling this. And now that there's 295 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: a possibility of a vaccine, we can't even trust him 296 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: as the president to uh to lead an administration and 297 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: f d A as c d C that's going to 298 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: handle it properly in a way that all Americans can trust. 299 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: So in every single way, he is exactly the wrong 300 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: person to be in charge in a crisis, particular crisis 301 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: of this magnitude and of this complexity. You've seen this 302 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: utter failure of a president. It's obvious that Joe Biden 303 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: is a better choice. And if you want to see 304 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: what his policies are, because I I kind of got 305 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: frustrated on Twitter one day and I was like, just 306 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: go to his website, because because Joe Biden's actually very yes, 307 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: he's actually worked with a lot of policy people on 308 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: the left to really formulate some really great ideas, and 309 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: the choice between his plans and Donald Trump's plan that 310 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: he keeps saying he has. I don't even understand what 311 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: that means. It just means it doesn't happen when. But 312 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: it's kind of amazing that he would even say that 313 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: with a straight face. It's so obvious that Donald Trump 314 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: should never lead anything that is of concern to anyone, 315 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: like any CEO, anyone who's in charge of hiring people. 316 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: He has all of the characteristics that you would red 317 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: flag and say this kind of person could never work 318 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: for me. I would never let him run anything, not 319 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: the dog pound, not the local fire department, Like, there's 320 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: nothing you would trust him to run. He has no plans. 321 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: But everybody needs a plan to vote, right, So people 322 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: to vote, you've got to have a plan to vote. 323 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: If you can vote early, vote early. If you are 324 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: going to vote by mail, get it in the you know, 325 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: the mail, as soon as you can. And then, no 326 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: matter how long they make you wait, if you're going 327 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: to vote on election day, don't go anywhere. Stay there, 328 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: bring a lunch, whatever it takes, you know. My advice 329 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: to folks is if you can vote early in person, 330 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: that's probably the That's what I'm gonna do you know. 331 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: John Lewis said that democracy is not a state, it's 332 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: an act. Exactly exactly we have to act for us 333 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: to maintain our democracy, and it is in peril right now, 334 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: is it is? Amen. I'm so grateful that you joined 335 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: me today because you have such a perspective and understanding 336 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: about what's at stake, and the life you've lived and 337 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: the way you've used your talents speak louder than words 338 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: ever could. So thank you so much, John. Give big 339 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: hugs to Chrissie and Luna and Miles. Okay, absolutely, I 340 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: love to build to Chelsea and all the grandkids, and 341 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: we love your family and want to send all of 342 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: our best team. Take care, Take care. If you want 343 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: to learn more about Free to Vote, the fund John 344 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 1: Legend created to help returning citizens exercise their right to vote, 345 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: please visit his website Let's Free America dot com. I'm 346 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: devastated to share with you that two days after we 347 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: published this episode, John and Chrissie lost their baby. I'm 348 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: sending them my love and my prayers, and I know 349 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: that you all join me in doing that. I first 350 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: met Stacy Abrams when she was a leader in the 351 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: Georgia Legislature. You know, from that very first meeting, I 352 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: could just tell that she was someone who had a 353 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: big future ahead. She ran a heroic campaign for governor 354 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: of Georgia. In her opponent, the Secretary of State at 355 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: the time, Brian kemp rewrote the rules on voter registration, 356 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: purged more than three hundred thousand people from the voter rolls, 357 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: and closed more than two hundred polling places across the state. 358 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: After that election, Stacy started a new organization called Fair Fight, 359 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: dedicated to making sure everyone can vote and have their 360 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: vote counted. It wasn't just that election that motivated Stacy. 361 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: She was also spurred on by the work of her 362 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: parents and grandparents to get started. I asked Stacy to 363 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: share a story from her book, Our Time Is Now. 364 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: That story is about a conversation she had during a 365 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: visit with her grandmother in the middle of Stacy's campaign 366 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: for governor. We were just talking about the election and 367 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: what was happening, and she was chiding me about, you know, 368 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: whether I was taking care of myself. But we started 369 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: talking about voting and and spontaneously I didn't know to 370 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: ask about the story. She grabs my hand and she 371 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: tells me about the first time she voted. And she 372 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: tells me that she was sitting in her bedroom in 373 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: November of nineteen sixty three years after the passage of 374 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: the Voting Rights Act, and you still had all of 375 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: the ignominies of Jim Crow, all of the challenges of 376 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: white folks who did not want this new thing to 377 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: be true, especially in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. And so my grandfather 378 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 1: and his brother were in the front room getting ready 379 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: to go, and they called from my grandmother, and she 380 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: tells me about sitting frozen on the bed and she 381 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: just could not move. She was paralyzed. And she said 382 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: that she just kept thinking about the dogs and the 383 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: batons and the hoses, and just those mean men who 384 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: had made their lives work denying her agency. And she 385 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: did not believe that it was really different. And so, 386 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, my grandfather, you know, calls for her. Finally 387 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: comes back, and it's like, you know, he calls her, 388 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: sugar honey. He's like, sugar, honey, come on, we've got 389 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: to go vote. And my grandmother's like, I don't want to. 390 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: And my grandfather reminds her that her son, at the 391 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: age of fourteen my dad got arrested registering people to vote, 392 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: that she and he had paid bail for their kids 393 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: to get them out of jail, when they would do 394 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: things because of their commitment to civil rights. Why would 395 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: you not now hold this power? And fundamentally, what she 396 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: was telling me was that the power scared her. And 397 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: what I think about every time I fight the fight 398 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: for voter suppression. Why I pushed so hard for the 399 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: senses to be completed by the communities who've been told 400 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: to be afraid of it. It's the power is terrifying, 401 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: the power to vote, the power to be seen. But fundamentally, 402 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: the power of citizenship is terrifying. And a woman who 403 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: had raised her children to want it, who had done 404 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: her part to make it so, I just didn't believe 405 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: it was true. It's not enough to tell some when 406 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: they have power. We've got to make that power real, 407 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: and we've got to make sure people are prepared to 408 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: wield it. You know, reading that story in your book, 409 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: I thought back to when I moved to Arkansas. I 410 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 1: moved in late summer of ur and my then boyfriend 411 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: was running for Congress, and I was teaching at the 412 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: law school there and on weekends, I'd go out and 413 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: knock on doors and ask people to vote for him. 414 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: And I kept running into black women who said they 415 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: hadn't paid their poll tax, and I said, well, there 416 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: is no more poll tax, because oh yeah, there is. 417 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: And I said, well, you know it's been struck down, 418 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: it's been eliminated that you know, you can't be charged 419 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: a poll tax. And they look at me like, you know, 420 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: what planet are you from. Of course they're going to 421 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: stop us from voting. The other thing that would happen 422 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: often with white women is I would knock on the 423 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: door and I'd maybe be with a young volunteer, and 424 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: I'd say I was, you know, here campaigning for you know, 425 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton or somebody else that I was campaigning for, 426 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 1: and the women would say, my husband does the voting 427 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: in our house. You know, those two real world experiences, 428 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: to me, really are in line with your experience and 429 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: your understanding that the reason we are having this very 430 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: intense and deep struggle over voting is because, at the 431 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: end of the day, it is the single power that 432 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: every citizen and has. So if people can be discouraged, 433 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: can be frightened, can be intimidated, can have their votes stolen, 434 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: not counted. You know, it does create a lot of 435 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: dissonance in people. They get scared, they get worried that 436 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: maybe there's going to be some kind of terrible consequence 437 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: for them trying to vote. So, how do you now 438 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: see where we are here at this point in our history? 439 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 1: And are you optimistic? Are you pessimistic? Are you both? What? 440 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: What do you think? I described myself as an ameliorist. 441 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: I've always loved the world amiliorg you to mitigate the harm. 442 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: And I believe in shorthand that the glass is half full. 443 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: It's just probably poisoned. And so my job is to 444 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: try to find the antidote. Our job is to try 445 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: to find that antidote. Whether that antidote is justice, that 446 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: antidote is mercy, if that antidote is investment. We've got 447 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: to find a way to fix what's broken. But we 448 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: can never believe that it won't be broken again. And 449 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: I think that's why I'm not an optimist. Optimism presumes 450 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: there's going to be some end state where good triumphs. 451 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: I've lived too long a life for that. But what 452 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: I do know to be true is that it gets better. 453 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: I mean, you you reference those women black and white. 454 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: And I think about being in South Georgia having a 455 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: conversation about folks going to vote and being told, well, 456 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: we don't vote early because if you want to vote early, 457 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: you've got to go to jail. And I was like, 458 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: what do you mean. The only place to early vote 459 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: was in the justice complex, which meant you had to 460 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: go to jail. And if you had a child who 461 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: had a warrant, if somebody had been pulled aside, and 462 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: in parts of Georgia where you were more likely to 463 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: be arrested just because of your race, why would you 464 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: risk your freedom to exercise your citizenship. And so my 465 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: clare and call about voter suppression was in part to 466 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: live out what you did in the election. With all 467 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: the other instrumentalities that were arrayed against Americans in that election, 468 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: you were the avatar. And I want us to be 469 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: really clear, you me any candidate. We are avatars for 470 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: people's dreams, for their beliefs, for their values, for their 471 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: demands for their life. And when voter suppression hits, it 472 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: is not to deny me a job, you a job. 473 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: It's not about the title. It's about the work that 474 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: we were going to do for those people, and the 475 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: righteous indignation that comes with suppression is because yeah, I 476 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: didn't get the title. Okay, what I'm angry about it 477 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: those black women, those brown women, those white women, those 478 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: young people who for the first time screwed their courage 479 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,719 Speaker 1: up and went inside that jail to cast their vote 480 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: only to be told their vote wasn't going to be counted. 481 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: And so I am an amelioris because I never believe 482 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: that power will ever say you can have me, and 483 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: that shared power is ever going to be permanent. But 484 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: I believe in the permanence of trying. I do too. 485 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: I believe in the permanence of trying. That's my job. 486 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: We'll be back right after this quick break. You know, 487 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: That's exactly how I am. And you know, sometimes people 488 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: get frustrated with folks like us because, you know, they think, well, 489 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, can't you just see we just waive the 490 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,239 Speaker 1: magic one, we run certain people for office and then 491 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: everything changes. And I said, well, no, I don't know. 492 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: I've read a lot of history, I've read the Bible, 493 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: I've experienced a lot. I don't think that's how it works. 494 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: And I love your your phrase, ameliorist. You know, When 495 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: some of us saw what happened in the Georgia primary 496 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: this past spring, we worried that it was a dry 497 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: run for the upcoming November election, not just in Georgia, 498 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: but in a lot of other states where the Trump 499 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: administration and the Republicans know that if there's a fair 500 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,719 Speaker 1: election and people are given the right to vote and 501 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: that right is protected, they're not likely to get reelected. 502 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: So what do you think about where we are now 503 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: in all the lawsuits were bringing. I'm supporting lawsuits through 504 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: my group Onward Together and the Democracy Docket, the advocacy, 505 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: You're doing everything that we are all so focused on. 506 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: What worries you about the upcoming November election? What worries 507 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: me is that Republicans know that their time is nigh, 508 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: and when cornered, they are willing to do whatever they 509 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: can to stave off the inevitable. And so we know 510 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: that they have agreed to spend twenty million dollars fighting 511 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: these lawsuits. We know they're going to raise an army 512 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: of fifty thou pull monitors to intimidate voters in ways 513 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: they haven't been permitted to do since. But back to 514 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: the amiliarist know fair fight exists, fair count exists, the 515 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: Sawyer's Committee, the Leadership Council, the a c P. These 516 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: exist because we know that we can fight back in 517 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: ways that we had never organized around before, and we 518 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: have to talk about this. You cannot solve a problem. 519 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: You will not call out and call by name and 520 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,719 Speaker 1: give people roadmap to understanding what it is. But the 521 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: second part is you have to have some solutions. Litigation 522 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: is a solution because the Lawyer's Committee, in the a 523 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: c L you are winning these suits, they are getting 524 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: changes made. The worst thing that can happen is that 525 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: we get surprised by what they intend to do. I 526 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: don't believe that every Republican is bad. I don't believe 527 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: every Democrat is good. But I do believe that the 528 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: party that calls itself the GOP has thrown its lot 529 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: in with fevery and suppression as opposed to running a 530 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: fair race and letting the chips fall where they may. 531 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: When the President of the United States says he can't 532 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: win an election if every eligible citizen votes, we should 533 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: take him at his word and test his theory. Sounds 534 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: like a plan to me, my friend. Thank you so much, Stacy, 535 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: and keep going we're gonna be ameliorating in every way 536 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: we know and hopefully taking our country back come November. 537 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: It has been a delight. Thank you so much to 538 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: Madame Secretary. Make sure to check out Stacy's new book 539 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: called Our Time Is Now, Power, Purpose, and the Fight 540 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: for a Fair America about how we can create a 541 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: more equal country. This year, we lost two people who 542 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: really understood how fundamental the right to vote is in 543 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: our democracy if we're going to keep a democracy. One 544 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: was my friend John Lewis, and what a loss in 545 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: the middle of a pandemic and at a time and 546 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: we need heroes like John more than ever. There wasn't 547 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: anybody who put his life on the line more often 548 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: to stand up for the right to vote than John Lewis. 549 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: The other loss was Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I think 550 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: about Ruth a lot because she changed the law. She 551 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: got constitutional interpretation that literally changed my life. You know, 552 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: when I was a young woman, I couldn't even get 553 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: a credit card in my own name. But she knocked 554 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: down barriers and obstacles to make sure that equality meant something, 555 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: and not just for women, but for all people. She 556 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: was famous for her descents and I've been thinking a 557 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: lot about the descent she made to a Supreme Court 558 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: decision in a case called Shelby. The holder back in 559 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: that case struck down key provisions of the Voting Rights Act, 560 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: and Justice gins knew the decision would make it much 561 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: more difficult for people to vote, especially people of color 562 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: and young people, low income people, the elderly. And she 563 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: said so in her descent. But she left us with 564 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 1: a rallying cry that sums up so much of her 565 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: philosophy on life. Here she is reading from that descent 566 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: from the bench. The great man who led the march 567 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: from Selma to Montgomery, and they are called for the 568 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: passage of the Voting Rights Act foresaw progress even in Alabama. 569 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: The ak of the moral universe is long, he said, 570 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: but it bends toward justice if there is a steadfast 571 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:53,439 Speaker 1: commitment to see the task through to completion. If there 572 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: is a steadfast commitment to seeing the task through to completion, 573 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: that a s and sums up Ruth Bader Ginsburg's life 574 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,919 Speaker 1: and work, and it gives the rest of us our 575 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: marching orders. There is no better way to pay tribute 576 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: to Justice Ginsburg than to get out and vote and 577 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: work as hard as you can to protect that right 578 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: for everyone. This election could come down to the slimmest margin, 579 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,479 Speaker 1: take it from me, and the best way to win 580 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: is to turn out in overwhelming numbers. So happy voting 581 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: and onward we go. You and Me Both is brought 582 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: to you by I Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie 583 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,720 Speaker 1: Subran and Kathleen Russo, with help from Huma Aberdeen, Nikki 584 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: etur Oscar Flores, Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, Lauren Peterson, Rob Russo, 585 00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: and Lona Valmorrow. Our engineer is Zack McNeice. Original music 586 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: is by Forest Gray. If you like You and Me Both, 587 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: don't keep it to yourself. Tell a friend. You can 588 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: subscribe to You and Me Both on the I Heart 589 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 590 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: While you're there, leave us a review. I'd really appreciate it. 591 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you, so send us your questions, comments, 592 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 1: or ideas for future shows at You and Me Both 593 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: pod at gmail dot com. Come back next week when 594 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 1: we're talking to some amazing women leaders, including the one 595 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: and only Gloria Steinhum