WEBVTT - Season 1 Update: A Return to Crystal Lake 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:14.560 My name is m Williams Phelps. This is Paper Ghosts, 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:30.880 a Season one update. It's been more than a year 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:35.120 since Season one of Paper Ghosts aired, and whether it 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:37.760 be a text or tweet, or even just a drive 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.280 around my own neighborhood, not a day goes by that 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:43.840 I still don't think about the young girls and women 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.080 who went missing in my hometown so many years ago. 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.360 Like any cold case investigation, the work never stops. Season 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:55.440 one may have come to an end, but the scores 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:59.520 of tips and queries I've received an email, social media messages, 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.560 and phone calls have only continued, not only to me, 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:08.480 but also to the Vernon, Connecticut Police Department and talland County, 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:13.600 Connecticut States Attorney's Office responsible for investigating the cases of 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:19.680 Janice Pocket, Lisa White, Debbie Spickler, Susan LaRosa, and Irene LaRosa. 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:24.440 I thought it was time for an update on what's 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:28.720 happened since the last episode air, talk about where things 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.480 currently stand, discussed the tips that have come in, and 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:36.760 respond to some of the unanswered questions the reinvestigation raised. 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.440 The first person I knew I wanted to speak with 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.240 was the man who oversaw a lot of the investigative 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.720 work in several of the cases, and whose voice can 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.600 be heard throughout much of season one, Lieutenant Bill Meyer. 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.920 After many years working with the Vernon Police, several of 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.000 which were spent heading up the Major Crimes Unit. Bill 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.520 has since retired from his life in law enforcement, but 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.640 the man can't stay away from his work. He maintains 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.720 a close relationship with his old department, a proximity that 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:17.280 has provided him with information and updates on his former cases. So, 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.760 I mean, since the podcast is aired, what's happened with 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.600 the Vernon Police Department in these cases? Bill? The podcast 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:26.799 has generated a lot of interest. Again, in the case, 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.760 we've received dozens of tips, uh and and we're following 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:32.880 up working jointly with the State Police in the States 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:37.600 Attorney's Office? Has the podcast helped in regard to pushing 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.560 the case forward? Moving the needle? The wide publicity across 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:46.480 the country certainly helps because we don't know who has 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.840 the information that we need and they could live anywhere. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:51.800 In reaching such a broad audience has been very helpful 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:55.520 for investigators not working these cases. I'd like to say 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.240 that a smoking gun tip came in and resolved one 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.480 or more of the cases. But of course that is 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:05.919 not how cold case investigation unfolds. The fact is this 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:10.560 is a time consuming process, more than most people can understand. 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.200 It's a hurry up and weight scenario that plagues so 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.239 many of these cases, which I have run into time 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.839 and again. I personally can only move things so far. 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:25.079 Then it's up to law enforcement, and law enforcement has 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:30.960 contemporary priorities and budget restrictions prohibiting them from dedicating any 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:37.680 serious time or person power to these older cases. I 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.160 asked Bill what he thought was going to happen next. 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:45.840 He gave me the stock reply, we don't know. I mean, 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.160 these girls advantage without a trace, and we've been working 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.360 since they disappeared to try and find them, and we're 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:56.480 looking for answers. What else can the guys say? Really, 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:01.280 what I can report is that the Conecticut State Police 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.560 did make a big push to investigate the Crystal Lake 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:09.000 areas I focused on in the podcast, after hearing about 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.440 the canine search featured in the show. The state Police 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.680 brought in their own dogs and conducted a search of 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:20.680 their own. They marked several areas of interest. They made 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.200 their presence known. They had the Wendells, the couple who 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.920 owns the property where the searches took place, believing they 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:33.040 were interested in results. Yet after the final podcast episode air, 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:38.720 the State Police disappeared once again stopped returning calls. And 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.400 I am not saying this to diss them in any way. 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:46.039 This is a fact. It's what happened. The Window family, 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.120 who were also featured in season one, were extremely disappointed. 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.000 They wanted to see some sort of action based on 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:58.240 where the State Police canines and my canines hit. The 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.480 State Police even told them they were going to bring 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:05.919 in ground penetrating radar to take a closer look underground. Sadly, 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:12.400 they did nothing, So once again I decided to do 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:46.040 the work myself. It's Peter hy right, let's see you. 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:52.039 Ground penetrating radar, or GPR, as it's more commonly called. 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:55.600 It's a nondestructive way to search underground and detect buried 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.920 or hidden remains. It is a fairly precise scientific way 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.559 of searching underground without digging holes and spending days, even 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:08.440 weeks sifting through dirt and rocks like an archaeologist hoping 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.320 to find fragments of a body. The idea is to 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.320 detect what are called subsurface caves in the underground landscape 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:21.039 using radiograms to penetrate the earth. As crime scene expert 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:25.440 Peter Valentin explained to me, cold case investigation or reinvestigating 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:29.039 cases that seem to have run their course, is tedious work. 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.839 But there are tasks that can be done with these 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:37.760 cold cases. And you know this better than anybody. If 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:42.200 you assume that what the initial investigators did was correct, 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:44.720 you're gonna wind up at the same dead end they 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.039 did right, And so you have to go back and 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:49.840 reread everything and see what's wrong with it, or to 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.400 you know, reinterview those people and listen for what never 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.040 made it into the reports the first six times they 0:06:56.040 --> 0:07:02.920 were written, and also to reinterview people. Peter is an 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.799 old friend. He's had a distinguished career with the Connecticut 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.040 State Police and retired in two thousand eleven as a 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:15.320 detective from the Major Crime Squad. His work encompassed homicide, 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:20.800 suspicious death, and major crime scene investigations. He was a 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.680 member of Connecticut's elite Urban Search and Rescue team, which 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:29.280 means he'd had extensive training in detecting criminal activity at 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:33.200 a major disaster, and has functioned as a rescue specialist 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:38.520 focused on saving injured and trapped to victims. Peter now 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.880 teaches at the Henry C. Lee College of Criminal Justice 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:46.360 and Forensic Sciences at the University of New Haven. After 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:50.120 listening to season one, it was Peter's colleague Dr Claire Glenn, 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.080 who I have also known for many years, who offered 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:56.720 up the institute's ground penetrating radar as a way for 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.200 us to search the Wendell property. So one day were 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:04.200 the summer, we all met up at the Wendell property. 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:12.400 So this stuff looks pretty basic. Uh, the equipment, Yeah, 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:17.760 it's old school, but it's definitely you know what it is. 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:19.960 It's just there's a limit to what you can do. 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.520 When you're looking into the ground. It's kind of difficult, 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.960 and reading it must be difficult. Yeah, that's actually so. 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:32.040 I was actually practicing yesterday in my neighborhood and just 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:36.000 looking at things making sure that I'm reading that the 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.400 right way. Does it work like a like say, a 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:43.480 fish finder, same same idea cruder than that? Really? Oh yeah, 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.240 wait till you see the the energies, You'll see it's 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.480 just what the hell is that good? I don't know. 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:50.080 And then you take it back to the lab and 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:51.640 you look at it. So, yeah, what I'm gonna do 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:53.920 is I'm gonna take pictures of it. We're gonna market 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:55.959 if if it's something really good, we can market if 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.239 we need to. But I think since it's so localized, 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.400 what you have there is good enough. Based on where 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.840 the canines I arranged to come up in showed the 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.520 most interest. There are two main areas were focused on. 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:12.760 Checking out near that a frame well and the flower 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:17.040 memorial I mentioned in season one. Starting at the well, 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.040 there's a large piece of rock directly behind it where 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.960 the dogs hit it juts out into a ledge. Think 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:28.120 of Volkswagen sized boulder that we're thinking is actually the 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:33.320 tip of a larger boulder buried under ground. I watch 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.840 as Peter begins tracing a pattern with the GPR equipment 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:41.320 north to south, east to west, working towards the place 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:46.679 marker where the dogs hit on. I mean, so you're 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.120 just running that over the ground like you're cutting the lawn, 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.400 but very very very slowly. And as you can see 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:59.880 with each pass, you see how yeah there's a change. Yeah, 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:06.240 And it gives you the depth approximate FET so you're 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:13.240 closer to year should see the ledge, right, they're looking 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:18.600 at that right there. See that's constant from two to five, 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:28.920 from half to five. How deep is a resolution? But uh, 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:35.840 where we are right now, probably twelve feet. Most bodies 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.200 are not buried more than eighteen inches underground a killer 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.199 and in these cases we're talking about a hasty type 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:45.480 of burial. If there are bodies near Crystal Lake, is 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.480 not going to dig a two, three or six ft 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:53.240 grave to bury a body. That only happens in the movies. Therefore, 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.440 GPR can be a highly effective tool to search a 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:01.200 wide area underground and determine the best spots Fenny to 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:05.080 perform an excavation. The average body is no more than 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.760 eighteen inches. No one's taking six f I was gonna say, 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:10.800 if I didn't even make a bad joke about Connecticut, 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:12.880 you don't even go that far because you're just constantly 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.120 hitting fieldstone. So what ends up happening is it's six 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:18.480 inches below the ground and you just have field stone 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:23.559 all over the top of them. Peter outlines the reality 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.120 of all this that we are basically looking for a 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.640 needle in a haystack out here, And as we discussed 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.400 it further, Peter mentions that if the a frame well, 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.720 which is where the original tip from the witness was centered, 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.480 is now cemented all the way down. The most likely 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.280 scenario is that a body could have been buried under 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:46.880 that cement, if it was placed there at all, or 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:54.920 has just washed away. Just as we're ready to move on, 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:57.800 Peter's attention is drawn to an image on the screen. 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.680 All I'm seeing something at about two ft You see 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:08.880 that right there here, right, So that's that's the depth 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:15.800 we're interested in. Let's get back to it there, you're 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:22.280 right right there. Okay, that looks like a cylindrical object 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.560 that I'm right over the top of. It's most likely 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:29.199 a route. And as these cases have gone for me 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:33.640 over the past fifteen years. Now, just as a mild 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.959 pang of excitement builds, it is quickly quashed by reality. 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.280 Peter is content and telling me that he has thoroughly 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.640 radar the area A few times I might add and that, well, 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:51.360 I'll let him explain. Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable here that 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:55.120 there's nothing in this area to be concerned about. So 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:57.280 he's had We have water, table, we have ledge, we 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:01.599 have roots, but we have no bodies. Good body parts, 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.079 if they are, they're scattered. You said that you would 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:08.520 you would see something localized with a shape to it, 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.840 and that's not here. There's nothing in this area. So 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:19.319 that's an answer. Not finding anything is indeed an answer, 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.880 not the one we want, but it's an answer. Nonetheless. 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.880 If you recall from the final episode of season one, 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.520 the Connecticut State Police decided to bring out their own 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:35.160 search dogs to give the appearance of working on the 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:39.480 case and not to be outdone by some investigative journalist dude, 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:42.760 as if this is some sort of competition. And look, 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.040 I get it, the state police have to be political 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.040 and at least make it seem like they are working 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.880 on the cases. But in my world, it's frustrating as 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.920 all hell, just like how my emails informing the current 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.600 lead detective of what Peter and I were doing out 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:04.520 here have been completely ignored. I mean, look, I'm in 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.840 this for the same outcome because, honestly, save her a 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.559 complete omission, there cannot be any arrest made in any 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:16.760 of these cases. There is zero evidence. The conclusion, if possible, 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.360 is finding one of the girls and bringing her home. 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:24.800 So for me, all the state police nonsense is just noise. 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:29.160 We could work together, but ego in power and control 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:36.360 get in the way of that. Back to Crystal Lake, 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.240 Peter and I, along with Dr. Claire Glenn and property 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.680 owner Ken Wendell, move over to where the Connecticut State 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:48.000 Police canines hit an area of flat land. I'd say 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.600 about fifty feet from the area my dog's hit on, 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.880 so it's not too far. And as Peter gets going, 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:00.240 running is contraption over the forest bed. As he is 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:04.000 buffing a wax floor, things get somewhat exciting as he 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:08.240 begins to see something very interesting. So this next area 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.680 here is where the State Police dogs hit and it's 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:18.800 marked and I don't know, there's definitely something that what's 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.720 under here again, we don't know. That's where the doors alerted. 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:31.040 You see all that. So there's there's, there's, there's all 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:37.120 kinds of activity there. It's like an opening down there somewhere. 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.640 And this is different too, This isn't that's an anomaly. Yeah, 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.240 Peter is definitely seeing something he has not seen all day, 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:52.600 and it interests him greatly. I've not seen this type 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:58.680 of concerned or concentrated focus on his face. But do 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.920 you see how they're the one that wasn't a great 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:05.800 feet is gone? Yeah, right, there's something here. Now it's 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:10.440 not so well, bring this back over here. There it is. 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.400 What Peter means is that he runs the GPR over 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:18.640 the area. An object underground, long and cylindrical, becomes clear 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.600 and then disappears as he runs the machine over it 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.000 a different way. Boom, there it is again, about a 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.240 foot long. We don't say it, but looking at it, 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.920 one could draw the conclusion this is a femur bump. 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:47.160 It has that same shape our ground and said, right 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.600 over there's bodies and car. After talking about it, we 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:56.280 decided to dig. There's a nervous energy among us. None 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.840 of us expect to find anything, but you just never know. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:12.720 And it's all. It wasn't just roots. Ken Wendell continues digging, 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.879 and as he meanders the shovel over thick and long roots, 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.560 he comes across a rather long, skinny rock and Peter 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:29.560 makes an observation, I mean that's what I was seeing. Yeah, 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:35.240 you know, good, you can actually hear Ken hit a 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:44.119 rock here, That's what I was seeing. Keep working towards this. 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:46.719 Oh yeah, I don't think you need to go much 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.440 further than that. And so what has been a common 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.760 theme for the past twelve years as I investigated these 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:58.399 cases continues. What it first seemed promising like maybe a 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:03.480 break leading somewhere turns into another stone blocking a path. 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.680 We searched several more areas, including the so called bunker 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:12.960 area near where the Irene LaRosa Flower Memorial is located, 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:17.199 an area the search dogs were not interested in, and 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:23.000 we found absolutely nothing. I am disappointed, yet in some 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:26.919 respects I am happy to report that, after all we 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.400 did on the Wendell property and across the street closer 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.560 to the LaRosa property, I do not believe any of 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:38.000 the girls are in this area, and if they were 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:53.520 at one time, fifty years has taken that prospect away. 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.639 I thought i'd end this update with the conversational Q 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:03.000 and A, facilitated by my executive producer, Christina Everett, who 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.760 is the wizard behind the curtain really with all things 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:10.320 paper Ghosts and my new weekly true crime podcast, Crossing 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:14.480 the Line with Them William Phelps. Christina was instrumental in 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:16.840 keeping me in check and keeping me on track during 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.879 season one and played the same role in season two, 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.720 which you might have heard her on Thanks. So I'm 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:25.920 excited to be here and to be able to talk 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.719 to you about you know, what happened behind the scenes 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.920 of Paper Ghosts. And We've gotten a lot of feedback 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.639 and emails, and I'd love to talk to you know 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:39.560 specifically about you know, what's the general consensus of the 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:44.320 tips that you receive. Well, the tips I feel are legit. 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:48.359 The problem is time someone will tell me that forty 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.520 five years ago a man with a similar description to 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:56.359 those in the podcast pulled over a similar vehicle and 0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:01.920 tried to abduct me. The other popular tip sadly my 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.080 father lived in the area and molested me and other 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.359 kids in the neighborhood. I mean, this is horrible. I 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.800 I feel for these people, but there's really not much 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.960 I can do with that information. All of these men 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.399 are dead, and with a fifty year old potential abduction tip, 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:22.239 there's nothing to go on along those lines. Didn't you 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:26.040 get a solid tip though about Bob Larrossa. Boy? Did 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:30.440 I ever? A former cop? He's working in the Rockville 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:34.520 near the LaRosa home. On the evening Susan LaRosa went missing. 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:41.399 He contacts me and I quote from seventy n I 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:45.200 was a Vernon police officer. I knew Bob lar Rosa 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.720 on the day that Bob's wife, Susan went missing. I 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:54.000 was assigned the police department's portable number one beat, which 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.840 was foot patrol in the Rockville section of town. It 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:00.960 was some time after five pm that day. This source 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.720 goes on to explain to me it wasn't even dark 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:07.040 out yet. He says he's walking near the old water 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.560 Fountain in the rock Fill section, which is a five 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:16.119 minute walk from the Larrosso apartment. Bob LaRosa approaches him. 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:22.760 Bob appeared very upset, acting nervous, quote almost in panic mode. 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:26.560 Bob said he wanted to report his wife missing, further 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:30.800 stating she had gone to the store earlier and hasn't 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:34.879 returned home yet. My source says I then told Bobby 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.320 he'd have to wait twenty four hours before he could 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:41.320 make an official missing person report. I can't recall his response, 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:44.359 but it always bothered me the way he acted that day, 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:49.080 more nervous that maybe he knew where Susan was. I mean, 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.480 I'm thinking about this, and it's like, so Susan goes 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:54.440 out to the store, she doesn't come back for an 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:58.600 hour or so, and Bob's already wanting to report her missing. 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:01.760 That's strange to me. Yeah, well, what about our other 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:05.840 man in question, the witness. Did you get any other 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:10.040 additional information or tips about him? I did get some 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.800 bonus information, if you will, about the witness. Someone close 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:16.960 to the witness told me about a day when the 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:21.080 witness he just up and left town without telling anyone. 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:25.840 Here's what my source said. Quote Suddenly, without warning or 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.760 any sort of announcement, he was gone. No one in 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:31.720 the family knew where he went or why he left. 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:35.840 The sudden exit from town baffled everyone who knew them 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:41.879 end quote. So the witness's disappearance was a mystery to 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:45.399 those he was closest to. And it's right after the 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:48.879 witness's departure from town that my source here quote began 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:53.600 hearing family members make comments about Susan and Bob the Rosa, 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.800 and he recalls one of the family members saying something 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:02.280 about the witness quote probably had something to do with 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:07.400 that LaRosa woman. I mean. And it's things like this 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:10.480 that I wish we were able to include in the show, 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:14.600 but sometimes it was a matter of timing or you know, 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:18.320 not being able to firm up enough sources to include it. 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:22.200 So I'm glad we can address that now. Here's the thing. 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:25.040 This source also told me that Bob LaRosa and the 0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:30.840 witness were quote tied to the hip. He remembers hearing 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:34.720 from family that the two of them were the last 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:37.960 to see some girl at a party in Rockville one night, 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:44.040 and then she was missing. That's remarkable. And to clarify, 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:47.560 you're not just saying this like based off of one 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:51.840 single email. I mean, you really research every single tip 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:54.560 that you get, and the things that you share are 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:58.480 not just gossip. So are there any other tips that 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:01.600 you received that we haven't touched on? You know? I 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:04.280 I received other tips I think embrace a bit of 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:08.320 validity within the scope of the cases too, but these 0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:11.800 tips require a lot more vetting and further investigation. I 0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:15.800 did also receive, you know, several psychic tips, which I 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:19.840 do not sorry, place any relevance in the One thing 0:24:19.880 --> 0:24:22.560 I do want to say, and this is important to 0:24:22.600 --> 0:24:26.800 me here at this stage of the investigation, I'm just 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:29.439 so sorry to all of those who have written in 0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:33.840 and were abused by a man in your life physically, sexually, 0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:37.880 or emotionally. I'm just so sorry this happened to you. 0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:41.399 I hear you. I am listening, and your voice is 0:24:41.400 --> 0:24:45.680 counted with me. It takes a lot to raise your 0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:48.080 hand and speak about this stuff, and I'm glad you 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:53.160 did so. Shifting gears. Let's talk about the Connecticut State Police, 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:57.560 you know, going back to our last episode and the 0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:00.159 work that you did with the search dogs and the 0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:03.480 local authorities did and didn't do. How has that gone 0:25:03.520 --> 0:25:06.159 with you? Have you heard anything from them. I've not 0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:09.800 heard a word from the State Police. They seem to 0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:13.160 think I don't know that we are in some sort 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:16.399 of competition, or that I harbor resentments against them, or 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:21.919 I'm holding back information, none of which is true. I 0:25:22.119 --> 0:25:29.160 emailed the lead detective in this case after Peter Valentine 0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:34.320 and Dr. Claire Glenn and Ken Wendell and myself went 0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:37.080 up in the woods to do the ground penetrating radar, 0:25:38.200 --> 0:25:43.520 and I shared with the detective Peter's findings and his thoughts, 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:48.720 et cetera. Now this lead detective and Peter know each 0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:53.320 other very well, in fact that they work together. I 0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:56.280 never got a response, So that says a lot to me. 0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:01.119 My job has always been to report what I feel 0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:04.240 is worthy of reporting. I don't get in the State 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:07.440 Police's way. I don't hold information from them and some 0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:11.280 people that you really don't hold information from our those 0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:14.919 closest to the victims, specifically the sisters we got married, 0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:19.440 Janna's Pocket sister, April Lisa White sister, and Terry Shanks 0:26:19.880 --> 0:26:23.800 Susan Leros's sister. You know, they were all huge parts 0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:29.159 of season one. All of their stories greatly affected listeners 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:32.840 and myself included. You know, so have you talked to 0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:37.080 them recently? What can you tell listeners about them? And 0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:41.399 and really how has the podcast and the investigation affected 0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:44.879 each of them. Today I went back and forth a 0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:48.600 little bit with them about coming on this update episode, 0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:50.520 and you know, I think they made the right decision 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:53.640 and just you know, letting it be. I mean, they 0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:55.919 don't have to keep revisiting this stuff. It's it's with 0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:59.359 them all day every day. To talk about it even 0:26:59.359 --> 0:27:03.200 more now, I think would just be uh overwhelming. Well, 0:27:03.240 --> 0:27:05.639 thanks for walking me through all of this. I know 0:27:05.720 --> 0:27:08.600 these are some burning questions that a lot of listeners had, 0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:17.080 so I'm glad we could take the time to address them. 0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:19.119 With all of that said, I want listeners to know 0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:23.080 that every email, phone, call, social media message regarding these cases, 0:27:23.160 --> 0:27:26.760 even if you do not hear back from me is read, considered, 0:27:27.359 --> 0:27:32.320 thoroughly vetted and checked out, and those tips or suggestions 0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:36.000 deemed potentially helpful to any of the cases are handed 0:27:36.040 --> 0:27:39.320 off to the right people in law enforcement. So please 0:27:39.400 --> 0:27:42.480 keep sending them in. No matter how insignificant you might think, 0:27:42.520 --> 0:27:45.040 the information you have is Every tip, no matter where 0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:48.480 it leads, is one step closer to a resolution to 0:27:48.600 --> 0:27:53.240 the families. I will continue to update the cases on 0:27:53.320 --> 0:27:58.280 an as needed basis, and please subscribe to Crossing the 0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:02.520 Line with m William Phelps. It's my new weekly podcast 0:28:02.920 --> 0:28:06.840 with I Heart Radio. Finally, I want to thank every listener. 0:28:07.040 --> 0:28:10.119 I am entirely humbled by your support of this podcast 0:28:10.280 --> 0:28:12.679 as well as my other weekly show, Crossing the Line. 0:28:13.400 --> 0:28:19.120 I have much more coming, so stay tuned. Paper Ghosts 0:28:19.400 --> 0:28:22.680 is written and executive produced by me Am William Phelps 0:28:22.920 --> 0:28:27.159 and I Heart executive producer Christina Everett. Audio editing and 0:28:27.240 --> 0:28:30.800