WEBVTT - Episode 10: The Witness

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin previously on Deep Cover.

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<v Speaker 2>Bob Cooley fled Chicago in November of nineteen eighty nine.

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<v Speaker 2>Bob's life as he knew it was over. He had

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<v Speaker 2>rejected the witness protection program and instead opted to improvise.

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<v Speaker 2>He took on a new identity and planned to hide

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<v Speaker 2>out Meanwhile, back in Chicago, Bob's efforts resulted in charges

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<v Speaker 2>against at least two dozen men, lawyers, judges, cops, and politicians.

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<v Speaker 2>Chief among them was Pat Marcy, who effectively ran the

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<v Speaker 2>first ward, the Mob's political stronghold.

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<v Speaker 3>So this is like a not just a cascade, it's

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<v Speaker 3>an earthquake on Chicago politics. This is a staggering revelation

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<v Speaker 3>involving a lawyer. Virtually no one outside of a circle

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<v Speaker 3>of real insiders knew at all.

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<v Speaker 2>Bob's days as a covert operative may have been over,

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<v Speaker 2>but he still had work to do. He would be

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<v Speaker 2>the prosecution's star witness in a series of trials. This

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<v Speaker 2>was the final stage of Operation Gambad, the goal break

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<v Speaker 2>the chokehold the Mob had on Chicago. There's a little

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<v Speaker 2>story Bob told me that kind of sums up what

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<v Speaker 2>his life was like after he fled Chicago and It's

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<v Speaker 2>about of all things furniture.

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<v Speaker 4>I started off I first, when I first left town.

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<v Speaker 4>I started off with all my own furniture and all

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<v Speaker 4>the rest of it.

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<v Speaker 2>And all the rest of it, you know, like a

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<v Speaker 2>toaster and a can opener and a TV. Not just that. Initially,

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<v Speaker 2>Bob built a little nest for himself. After bouncing around

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<v Speaker 2>from east to west, he settled down in Richmond, Virginia

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<v Speaker 2>and started getting all domestic.

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<v Speaker 4>I had met a girl who had moved in with me.

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<v Speaker 4>She thought maybe we'd get married, but that wasn't my idea.

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<v Speaker 4>But she had just moved in with me about a

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<v Speaker 4>week before, and I went to Chicago for a trial.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the rhythm of Bob's life. Now, hide out,

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<v Speaker 2>keep a low profile, and then every so often, hop

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<v Speaker 2>on a plane back to the Chicago area, show up

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<v Speaker 2>in court, take the witness stand, and then poof vanish again.

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<v Speaker 2>All told, Bob would end up testifying in nine trials. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>After one of his court appearances, Bob is ready to

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<v Speaker 2>head home back to Richmond, where his girlfriend is waiting

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<v Speaker 2>for him. But first Bob needs to stop by an

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<v Speaker 2>FBI office just to check in.

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<v Speaker 4>They had six agents standing there with machine guns and

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<v Speaker 4>with vests on, and they told me to put a

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<v Speaker 4>vest on. And they said, you can't go back home.

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<v Speaker 4>And I said why. They said, supposedly somebody was on

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<v Speaker 4>the way out there to kill me.

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<v Speaker 2>Bob tries to digest all of this. I mean, things

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<v Speaker 2>were going pretty well for him back in Richmond, but

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<v Speaker 2>apparently it was time to move again.

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<v Speaker 4>I said, well, I've got some stuff i'd like to get,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, back home, at my house. And so the

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<v Speaker 4>next day I flew into Richmond. A couple of agents

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<v Speaker 4>met me there. We went to the house and my

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<v Speaker 4>girlfriend I forgot her name now, wasn't home. She was

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<v Speaker 4>at work, and I just packed up a bunch of

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<v Speaker 4>stuff and left her a note. You know, I got

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<v Speaker 4>to leave. Something came up. I'm not coming back. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>everything here is yours.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was that the end of one of Bob

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<v Speaker 2>Cooley's many lives. So he started over in North Carolina,

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<v Speaker 2>where he stayed until there was another scare and he

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<v Speaker 2>had to flee again. It had been twenty years since

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<v Speaker 2>Bob first got involved with the Mob. Ever since then,

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<v Speaker 2>he had been haunted by his relationship with its political czar,

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<v Speaker 2>Pat Marcy and one of its hit men, Harry Elmann.

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<v Speaker 2>Now they would both be prosecuted. This was the reckoning,

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<v Speaker 2>the moment when Bob would have to stare them down

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<v Speaker 2>in court, tell the world what they'd done, and explain

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<v Speaker 2>his own role in it all. This would happen in

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<v Speaker 2>two separate trials that took place in the nineteen nineties.

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<v Speaker 2>These trials would in many ways to find the success

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<v Speaker 2>or failure of Bob's mission, and through it all, Bob's

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<v Speaker 2>main challenge was to stay alive so he could finish

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<v Speaker 2>what he started. I'm Jay Colburn and this is Deep

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<v Speaker 2>Cover mob Land, our final episode the witness. Before Pat

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<v Speaker 2>Marcy was indicted, prosecutors invited him to their off for

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<v Speaker 2>a little visit. Tom Durkin was there for that meeting.

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<v Speaker 2>Today he's a federal judge, but at the time he

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<v Speaker 2>was an assistant US attorney.

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<v Speaker 5>Pat Marcy came in with his lawyer. The attorney explained

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<v Speaker 5>what the charges would be.

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<v Speaker 2>Marcy was older now, he was in his seventies and

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<v Speaker 2>not in the best of health, and he was in

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<v Speaker 2>hot water. Marcy was about to be charged on multiple counts,

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<v Speaker 2>including racketeering, bribery, and extortion. The prosecutors wanted to see

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<v Speaker 2>if Marcy might cooperate.

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<v Speaker 5>And I distinctly remember Pat Marcy saying good luck to

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<v Speaker 5>you and standing up and walking out.

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<v Speaker 2>In other words, go to hell. So Tom and the

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<v Speaker 2>other prosecutors had to build their case, and they had

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<v Speaker 2>a lot to work with. For starters, they had all

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<v Speaker 2>those secret recordings that Bob had made, which they could

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<v Speaker 2>play for the jury. These would prove that Marcy had

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<v Speaker 2>orchestrated bribes. Sure, sometimes Marcy spoke in code, but that's

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<v Speaker 2>where Bob would come into play. He could get on

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<v Speaker 2>the witness stand and offer context, almost like a translator,

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<v Speaker 2>decoding mob speak. The prosecutors also wanted to prove that

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<v Speaker 2>Marcy had arranged to fix court cases in the more

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<v Speaker 2>distant past before Bob had flipped, like that notorious murder

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<v Speaker 2>case back in the seventies involving the reputed hitman Harry Elaman.

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<v Speaker 2>The Feds wanted to prove that Marcy had schemed to

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<v Speaker 2>fix that case, that he was the one who'd recruited

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<v Speaker 2>Bob Cooley to bribe the judge. But proving this would

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<v Speaker 2>be much harder. Sure, Bob could testify, but there were

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<v Speaker 2>no secret recordings to back him up. So who could

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<v Speaker 2>corroborate Bob's story. The judge on the case, Frank Wilson,

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<v Speaker 2>was now dead. He had taken his own life, and

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<v Speaker 2>that left only one person, Catherine Fleming. If you recall

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen seventy seven, the year of the Harry Elamann trial,

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<v Speaker 2>she was Bob's secretary and lover, but she knew little

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<v Speaker 2>about his shady dealings.

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<v Speaker 6>I wasn't looking to figure it out because it was

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<v Speaker 6>none of my business.

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<v Speaker 2>But Catherine was with Bob at the restaurant when he

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<v Speaker 2>made the payoff to Judge Wilson. She didn't see the

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<v Speaker 2>actual payoff or even know about it at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>but afterwards the judge had told her, you look like

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<v Speaker 2>a nice girl, stay away from him. Tom Durkin, the prosecutor,

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<v Speaker 2>felt that if he could persuade Catherine to testify, she

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<v Speaker 2>could be the lynchpin. Everything she witnessed indicated that Bob

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<v Speaker 2>was telling the truth. Catherine agreed to cooperate, but her

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<v Speaker 2>family was unhappy, especially her mom.

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<v Speaker 6>Oh, she went nuts. She had a fit, lots of screaming.

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<v Speaker 6>She demanded that I'd not testify, that it had nothing

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<v Speaker 6>to do with me, that Bob was wrong to do this, wrong,

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<v Speaker 6>to involve me. She felt that he was a horrible person.

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<v Speaker 6>She felt that everyone was you me, and the mafia

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<v Speaker 6>would kill me.

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<v Speaker 2>Even so, Catherine felt she had to do something.

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<v Speaker 6>I thought that it's very wrong for judges to get

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<v Speaker 6>paid off so that hitman can continue to murder people,

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<v Speaker 6>and nobody wants to testify because their mothers scream at

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<v Speaker 6>them that you're going to get murdered. And I wanted

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<v Speaker 6>to do the right thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Catherine's testimony would be a huge boost for Tom Dirkin

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<v Speaker 2>and the prosecution, especially because she had no reason to lie.

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<v Speaker 2>She was just a regular civilian, a bystander caught up

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<v Speaker 2>in a tangled scheme of corruption, and by testifying she

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<v Speaker 2>would in effect be taking on the mob. In short,

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<v Speaker 2>she bolstered Bob's credibility big time.

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<v Speaker 5>It was remarkable corroboration from a witness who had no

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<v Speaker 5>motive to lie. I thought that was the best piece

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<v Speaker 5>of corroboration I've ever had in any case I ever prosecuted.

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<v Speaker 2>So that was that the prosecution's case was coming together.

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<v Speaker 2>They had Bob, they had his secret recordings, and they

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<v Speaker 2>had Catherine Fleming, the stalwart secretary who would not be intimidated.

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<v Speaker 2>The trial of Pat Marcy kicked off on December fourteenth,

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety two, almost exactly three years after Bob Cooley

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<v Speaker 2>fled Chicago, and on trial alongside him as co defendant,

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<v Speaker 2>was one of Marcy's associates, the first word Alderman Fred Roady.

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<v Speaker 2>In his opening statement, Marcy's defense lawyer Ed Jensen told

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<v Speaker 2>the jury quote, Robert Cooley is a liar who will

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<v Speaker 2>say or do anything to convict Pat Marcy. He's an

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<v Speaker 2>envious man who has spent his whole life lying and cheating,

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<v Speaker 2>and he has decided to put these talents to work

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<v Speaker 2>for the government. So that was the game plan. Smear

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<v Speaker 2>Bob before he even took the stand. Make Bob Cooley

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<v Speaker 2>look like the rat of all time. Eventually, Bob arrived

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<v Speaker 2>at the courthouse to testify, and for the first time

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<v Speaker 2>in year, he came face to face with Pat Marcy.

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<v Speaker 4>I was brought into the courtroom. I was put up

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<v Speaker 4>in the chair. I'm sitting up there in the witness chair.

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<v Speaker 4>I see Pat over there and he's glaring at.

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<v Speaker 2>Me, Bob says. Marcy's lawyer approached him. The two men

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<v Speaker 2>knew each other brushing shoulders in the city's courts.

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<v Speaker 4>Jensen comes walking up to me while the jury is

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<v Speaker 4>being brought in and he says, how are you doing, Bob?

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<v Speaker 4>You know you look good? Everything okay, I get the

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<v Speaker 4>fuck out of here.

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<v Speaker 2>Bob was a witness for the prosecution, so they got

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<v Speaker 2>him first for the direct questioning. Tom Dirkin, the prosecutor,

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<v Speaker 2>asked Bob to tell his story, the whole saga of

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<v Speaker 2>how he got mixed up with the mob in the

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<v Speaker 2>first place, how he met Pat Marcy, and what Marcy

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<v Speaker 2>asked him to do. Bob was calm and collected, clarifying

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<v Speaker 2>the smallest of details. As a former criminal defense lawyer,

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<v Speaker 2>Bob knew exactactly what he needed to do. Tom says

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<v Speaker 2>Bob's performance as a witness was one of the best

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<v Speaker 2>he ever saw.

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<v Speaker 5>Every question I had was answered directly by him. The

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<v Speaker 5>evidence we were able to play the tapes. We put

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<v Speaker 5>up pictures of the main players as he was talking

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<v Speaker 5>about people.

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<v Speaker 2>All the while Pat Marcy sat there as if none

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<v Speaker 2>of this had anything to do with him.

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<v Speaker 5>You couldn't get any emotion out of him. He wasn't

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<v Speaker 5>grimacing or rolling his eyes or muttering under his breath

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<v Speaker 5>or anything like that. He's very stony faced.

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<v Speaker 2>Bob says he also remembers Marcy's cold, hard gaze.

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<v Speaker 4>Pat Marcy is staring at me. When he's staring at me,

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<v Speaker 4>I give him a wink. I give him a wink

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<v Speaker 4>and a smile, and he starts coughing. He started coughing

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<v Speaker 4>and wheezing, almost uncontrollably.

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<v Speaker 2>As all this is happening. Tom has his back to Marcy,

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<v Speaker 2>so we can't see him, but he remembers hearing coughing

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<v Speaker 2>in the moment. Tom didn't think much of it, but

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<v Speaker 2>turns out it was an omen of what was to come.

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<v Speaker 2>A day or so later, Marcy's lawyers announced that he'd

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<v Speaker 2>had a heart attack.

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<v Speaker 7>Tonight, Pat Marcy is in critical condition in the cardiac

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<v Speaker 7>care unit of West Suburban Hospital in oak Park. Despite

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<v Speaker 7>defense objections that the seventy nine year old Marcy should

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<v Speaker 7>not be tried at all due to poor health.

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<v Speaker 2>The plan was to prosecute Marcy again when his health improved,

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<v Speaker 2>but it never did. The case against Marcy ended in

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<v Speaker 2>a mistrial. A short while later, Marcy died. Now you

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<v Speaker 2>might think that Bob would be devastated by this. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean he risked his own life and spent the last

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<v Speaker 2>three years on the run, all in the hopes of

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<v Speaker 2>nailing this guy and sending him to prison. And now this,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's not the way that Bob saw it. Bob,

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<v Speaker 2>in classic Bob fashion, credit for Marcy's death. Wait, are

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<v Speaker 2>you saying that you think you caused him the heart attack?

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<v Speaker 4>I have no doubt in my mind. I have no

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<v Speaker 4>doubt in my mind. But I was gonna say, because

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<v Speaker 4>this man had so much hatred towards me in this system.

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<v Speaker 2>The truth is, there's no real proof that Marcy had

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<v Speaker 2>a heart attack right there in the courtroom while Bob

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<v Speaker 2>was winking at him. But as Bob tells it in

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<v Speaker 2>his mythology, that's how it all played out. In other words,

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<v Speaker 2>he won, though arguably Marcy lived by his own rules

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<v Speaker 2>to the right bold age of seventy nine and checked

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<v Speaker 2>out just in time. I asked Tom, the prosecutor, if

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<v Speaker 2>he felt that Marcy had basically escaped justice.

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<v Speaker 5>He didn't escape justice. He was indicted. He was held

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<v Speaker 5>up to the public as a person who had fixed

0:15:02.396 --> 0:15:05.036
<v Speaker 5>murder cases. He was on trial in a courtroom in

0:15:05.036 --> 0:15:07.156
<v Speaker 5>front of a jury. A lot of the secrets of

0:15:07.196 --> 0:15:10.636
<v Speaker 5>his life were exposed. So he didn't escape justice. Did

0:15:10.636 --> 0:15:14.436
<v Speaker 5>he escape going to jail, sure, but at what price

0:15:14.476 --> 0:15:14.876
<v Speaker 5>he died?

0:15:15.676 --> 0:15:19.356
<v Speaker 2>Pat Marcy's death was a mortal blow to the First Ward.

0:15:20.116 --> 0:15:23.716
<v Speaker 2>Marcy was more than just the boss in so many ways.

0:15:23.956 --> 0:15:27.476
<v Speaker 2>He was the first Ward. He'd been there for decades,

0:15:27.996 --> 0:15:31.796
<v Speaker 2>and his connections, his know how, and the fear that

0:15:31.876 --> 0:15:36.036
<v Speaker 2>he conjured it all died with him. No one could

0:15:36.076 --> 0:15:40.476
<v Speaker 2>really fill his shoes, and the other possible candidates, well,

0:15:40.916 --> 0:15:44.636
<v Speaker 2>they went down with him. Fred Roady was convicted on

0:15:44.716 --> 0:15:48.476
<v Speaker 2>multiple counts of racketeering and extortion. He was sentenced to

0:15:48.516 --> 0:15:52.476
<v Speaker 2>four years in prison. As for John Diarco Junior, the

0:15:52.516 --> 0:15:55.876
<v Speaker 2>poet and state senator, his case also went to trial.

0:15:56.316 --> 0:15:59.676
<v Speaker 2>He was convicted of extortion and sentenced to three years

0:15:59.716 --> 0:16:07.516
<v Speaker 2>in prison. In the years since Marcie's death, the political

0:16:07.556 --> 0:16:11.316
<v Speaker 2>boundaries of Chicago's war Words have been redrawn and then

0:16:11.436 --> 0:16:15.996
<v Speaker 2>redrawn again, and the old First Ward, in both shape

0:16:16.316 --> 0:16:22.636
<v Speaker 2>and power, is no more. Bob may rightly claim credit

0:16:22.796 --> 0:16:25.756
<v Speaker 2>for the downfall of the First Ward, but his most

0:16:25.796 --> 0:16:29.676
<v Speaker 2>defining moment would come in another trial where he would

0:16:29.676 --> 0:16:33.036
<v Speaker 2>face off with the hit man Harry Alaman and try

0:16:33.036 --> 0:16:36.756
<v Speaker 2>to atone for his own original sin. More on that

0:16:37.276 --> 0:16:57.196
<v Speaker 2>after the break, after the trial of Pat Marcy and

0:16:57.236 --> 0:17:01.116
<v Speaker 2>Fred Roady, much of Bob's story became public, and one

0:17:01.196 --> 0:17:04.476
<v Speaker 2>of the biggest revelations was this Bob had bribed a

0:17:04.596 --> 0:17:09.356
<v Speaker 2>judge and helped Harry Alamann, the hit man, go freely.

0:17:09.396 --> 0:17:13.316
<v Speaker 2>That but Catherine Fleming, Bob's secretary, had provided some corroboration,

0:17:14.276 --> 0:17:18.196
<v Speaker 2>And this, among other things, raised the question would prosecutors

0:17:18.236 --> 0:17:22.156
<v Speaker 2>go after Harry again some twenty years later. Mind you,

0:17:22.276 --> 0:17:25.596
<v Speaker 2>doing this wouldn't be easy. Harry had a very powerful

0:17:25.596 --> 0:17:28.156
<v Speaker 2>ally on his side. And I don't mean the mob.

0:17:28.556 --> 0:17:31.556
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about the Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution.

0:17:32.436 --> 0:17:35.436
<v Speaker 2>It said that no one could be placed in double jeopardy,

0:17:35.716 --> 0:17:38.676
<v Speaker 2>meaning you can't be prosecuted for the same crime twice.

0:17:39.436 --> 0:17:43.516
<v Speaker 2>But turns out state prosecutors came up with a clever workaround.

0:17:44.156 --> 0:17:47.036
<v Speaker 2>They argued that because the original trial appeared to have

0:17:47.116 --> 0:17:50.036
<v Speaker 2>been fixed, well, then Harry had never really been in

0:17:50.116 --> 0:17:53.756
<v Speaker 2>jeopardy in the first place. Hattie. This question was actually

0:17:53.756 --> 0:17:56.276
<v Speaker 2>appealed all the way up to the US Supreme Court.

0:17:56.796 --> 0:18:00.756
<v Speaker 2>In the end, the decision was Harry could be retried.

0:18:02.756 --> 0:18:02.956
<v Speaker 8>Now.

0:18:02.996 --> 0:18:06.156
<v Speaker 2>To give you a quick refresher. The first trial of

0:18:06.236 --> 0:18:10.116
<v Speaker 2>Harry Alamann occurred back in nineteen seventy six. There were

0:18:10.156 --> 0:18:13.836
<v Speaker 2>two eyewitnesses, both of whom identified Harry as the killer.

0:18:14.676 --> 0:18:17.716
<v Speaker 2>The public and Chicago media were shocked by the not

0:18:17.796 --> 0:18:22.156
<v Speaker 2>guilty verdict, but no one was more deeply impacted than

0:18:22.196 --> 0:18:26.876
<v Speaker 2>the family of the victim, Billy Logan. Billy's niece, Johanna

0:18:26.996 --> 0:18:30.636
<v Speaker 2>Santanello says her relatives were haunted for years by what

0:18:30.716 --> 0:18:31.276
<v Speaker 2>had happened.

0:18:31.756 --> 0:18:35.916
<v Speaker 9>They have nothing but this memory of how they last

0:18:35.956 --> 0:18:42.036
<v Speaker 9>seen their family member laying on a street full of

0:18:42.076 --> 0:18:43.556
<v Speaker 9>bull of the hole's moaning.

0:18:44.356 --> 0:18:47.636
<v Speaker 2>They wondered how exactly that trial had ended in an acquittal,

0:18:47.956 --> 0:18:50.796
<v Speaker 2>and they held on to the hope that somehow justice

0:18:50.836 --> 0:18:55.036
<v Speaker 2>still might be served. And then finally, in nineteen ninety seven,

0:18:55.316 --> 0:18:59.396
<v Speaker 2>two decades later, Harry was put back on trial, thanks

0:18:59.396 --> 0:19:02.076
<v Speaker 2>in part to Bob Cooley and the fact that he

0:19:02.116 --> 0:19:06.676
<v Speaker 2>would testify. But the whole thing left Johannah feeling worried.

0:19:06.756 --> 0:19:10.196
<v Speaker 9>Because I just felt, what if he walks again, you know,

0:19:12.676 --> 0:19:15.996
<v Speaker 9>how would my family handle that or could they handle

0:19:16.036 --> 0:19:16.676
<v Speaker 9>any more of this?

0:19:20.396 --> 0:19:24.196
<v Speaker 2>In many ways, this retrial was a culmination, a moment

0:19:24.196 --> 0:19:27.516
<v Speaker 2>of truth not just for the Logan family or even

0:19:27.556 --> 0:19:31.756
<v Speaker 2>for Operation Gambat, but for everyone in Chicago who'd witnessed

0:19:31.876 --> 0:19:37.236
<v Speaker 2>untold decades of judicial corruption. The credibility of the judicial

0:19:37.276 --> 0:19:40.236
<v Speaker 2>system itself seemed to be on the line, because in

0:19:40.276 --> 0:19:44.316
<v Speaker 2>the end, laws and judges and courthouses don't mean a

0:19:44.436 --> 0:19:52.396
<v Speaker 2>damn thing if no one has faith in them. As

0:19:52.396 --> 0:19:55.876
<v Speaker 2>the trial got underway, the prosecution called its witnesses to

0:19:55.916 --> 0:19:59.036
<v Speaker 2>the stand, many of the same people who testified twenty

0:19:59.116 --> 0:20:01.756
<v Speaker 2>years earlier. It was a bit like the reunion of

0:20:01.796 --> 0:20:04.836
<v Speaker 2>an old TV show, with the same actors and a

0:20:04.836 --> 0:20:08.036
<v Speaker 2>few new twists. There was the neighbor who said he'd

0:20:08.076 --> 0:20:11.276
<v Speaker 2>witnessed the murder, the accomplice who said he'd helped Harry

0:20:11.316 --> 0:20:14.156
<v Speaker 2>plan the whole thing. And there were new witnesses too,

0:20:14.596 --> 0:20:18.156
<v Speaker 2>including Bob Cooley. Bob says he showed up with his

0:20:18.196 --> 0:20:19.596
<v Speaker 2>own security detail.

0:20:19.876 --> 0:20:23.036
<v Speaker 4>Well, I guess it was like the mayor or the

0:20:23.276 --> 0:20:26.956
<v Speaker 4>rising coming in. They were so worried about my security

0:20:27.556 --> 0:20:30.556
<v Speaker 4>because of obviously this was going to be a case

0:20:30.596 --> 0:20:31.796
<v Speaker 4>that would be making history.

0:20:32.316 --> 0:20:34.036
<v Speaker 10>It's a very big deal.

0:20:34.796 --> 0:20:39.396
<v Speaker 2>Investigative reporter Carol Marine covered the trial. She also remembers

0:20:39.436 --> 0:20:41.156
<v Speaker 2>all the fanfare surrounding Bob.

0:20:41.436 --> 0:20:47.316
<v Speaker 10>They're surrounded by agents. They're in bulletproof vests. They're guarding you.

0:20:47.516 --> 0:20:51.556
<v Speaker 3>They've got automatic weapons everywhere.

0:20:51.676 --> 0:20:56.316
<v Speaker 10>Yes, you are the center of the universe.

0:20:57.036 --> 0:21:00.036
<v Speaker 2>When he finally took the stand, Bob told the courtroom

0:21:00.076 --> 0:21:03.076
<v Speaker 2>how in the past he'd been a fixer for Pat

0:21:03.156 --> 0:21:06.516
<v Speaker 2>Marcy and the first ward he was in effect a

0:21:06.556 --> 0:21:09.036
<v Speaker 2>tool of the outfit who'd been asked to protect when

0:21:09.196 --> 0:21:14.116
<v Speaker 2>of their most valuable assets, Harry the hook Alaman. Bob

0:21:14.156 --> 0:21:17.636
<v Speaker 2>explained how in the original trial he'd bribed the judge,

0:21:17.836 --> 0:21:21.516
<v Speaker 2>Frank Wilson, and how later after the not guilty verdict

0:21:21.516 --> 0:21:25.316
<v Speaker 2>came out, the judge had told him, you destroyed me.

0:21:27.596 --> 0:21:29.796
<v Speaker 2>Carol was there in the courtroom for this moment.

0:21:30.356 --> 0:21:33.636
<v Speaker 3>You know, Bob Cooley does not demonstrate much emotion at all.

0:21:33.676 --> 0:21:36.556
<v Speaker 3>He's got a pretty flat affect. But there was a

0:21:36.596 --> 0:21:41.916
<v Speaker 3>point in his testimony talking about really almost forcing Frank

0:21:41.956 --> 0:21:47.116
<v Speaker 3>Wilson to take the money in a men's bathroom. I mean,

0:21:47.316 --> 0:21:52.036
<v Speaker 3>he choked with emotion and had to kind of swallow

0:21:52.116 --> 0:21:52.956
<v Speaker 3>hard and.

0:21:53.036 --> 0:21:54.196
<v Speaker 10>Keep talking.

0:21:55.436 --> 0:22:00.356
<v Speaker 3>Because he knew that he was one of the instruments

0:22:01.356 --> 0:22:06.876
<v Speaker 3>of Frank Wilson's demise. He couldn't have been other. Yes,

0:22:06.996 --> 0:22:12.596
<v Speaker 3>the outfit ruined Frank Wilson. Yes, Frank Wilson ruined Frank Wilson,

0:22:13.316 --> 0:22:17.516
<v Speaker 3>But ultimately all of the players in the surround sound

0:22:17.676 --> 0:22:22.796
<v Speaker 3>of that were responsible for the death of Frank Wilson.

0:22:27.516 --> 0:22:31.156
<v Speaker 2>Afterwards, Harry's lawyer had a chance to cross examine Bob.

0:22:31.716 --> 0:22:35.236
<v Speaker 2>His strategy from the start was to discredit him, to

0:22:35.316 --> 0:22:39.116
<v Speaker 2>dredge up Bob's checkered past. He asked Bob if during

0:22:39.116 --> 0:22:42.876
<v Speaker 2>his days as a cop he'd ever been paid off. Yes,

0:22:42.916 --> 0:22:46.596
<v Speaker 2>said Bob, He'd taken so called street money that typically

0:22:46.676 --> 0:22:50.196
<v Speaker 2>meant tips or payoffs from businesses, you know, like bars

0:22:50.196 --> 0:22:53.116
<v Speaker 2>that want to cozy up with the cops. The defense

0:22:53.196 --> 0:22:56.396
<v Speaker 2>lawyer kept hammering away at Bob, portraying him as a

0:22:56.436 --> 0:23:01.556
<v Speaker 2>shifty and shadowy character. In response, Bob was remarkably candid.

0:23:01.956 --> 0:23:06.316
<v Speaker 2>He didn't make elaborate arguments or justifications. He just kind

0:23:06.316 --> 0:23:09.556
<v Speaker 2>of took it on the chin. At one point, he said, quote,

0:23:10.276 --> 0:23:13.276
<v Speaker 2>I'm not making any excuses for what I did. I

0:23:13.316 --> 0:23:15.316
<v Speaker 2>did what I did, but it was an easy way

0:23:15.316 --> 0:23:17.836
<v Speaker 2>to get to the top during that time, and I

0:23:17.916 --> 0:23:18.876
<v Speaker 2>took the easy route.

0:23:19.316 --> 0:23:21.076
<v Speaker 4>This guy is trying to make me out to be

0:23:21.236 --> 0:23:25.196
<v Speaker 4>somebody who's you know, who's a crooked cough passing out bribes.

0:23:25.276 --> 0:23:26.876
<v Speaker 11>Because I guess what he's trying to do is the

0:23:26.916 --> 0:23:29.676
<v Speaker 11>classic I'm going to turnish your reputation and credibility. But

0:23:29.716 --> 0:23:32.916
<v Speaker 11>the whole purpose of you appearing today as as a

0:23:32.956 --> 0:23:36.156
<v Speaker 11>guy who fixes cases in places bribes.

0:23:35.756 --> 0:23:38.076
<v Speaker 4>It's given me credibility in that sense.

0:23:38.916 --> 0:23:42.476
<v Speaker 2>The whole process was tricky for Bob. He wanted to

0:23:42.516 --> 0:23:46.036
<v Speaker 2>be seen as the guy who'd cleaned up Chicago, but

0:23:46.356 --> 0:23:49.356
<v Speaker 2>in order to do that, he had to admit publicly

0:23:49.436 --> 0:23:52.756
<v Speaker 2>to all the most questionable and unsavory things that he'd

0:23:52.796 --> 0:23:57.356
<v Speaker 2>ever done. The danger was that these admissions would define

0:23:57.436 --> 0:24:01.796
<v Speaker 2>who Bob really was because everyone was trying to make

0:24:01.876 --> 0:24:06.036
<v Speaker 2>up their minds about Bob. In his closing statement, the

0:24:06.036 --> 0:24:10.196
<v Speaker 2>prosecutor told the jury quote, I'm telling you you have

0:24:10.276 --> 0:24:13.036
<v Speaker 2>to like Bob Cooley. You don't have to like him,

0:24:13.196 --> 0:24:16.516
<v Speaker 2>but you know what. Bob Cooley faced what he was.

0:24:19.476 --> 0:24:23.396
<v Speaker 2>As the jury finished its deliberations, onlookers packed into the

0:24:23.436 --> 0:24:27.596
<v Speaker 2>gallery to hear the verdict. Johanna Santanello was there with

0:24:27.636 --> 0:24:31.556
<v Speaker 2>the other members of a Logan family, hoping that maybe

0:24:31.876 --> 0:24:36.316
<v Speaker 2>finally there'd be justice for Billy. The jurors came into

0:24:36.316 --> 0:24:40.916
<v Speaker 2>the courtroom and then the verdict was announced for the.

0:24:40.956 --> 0:24:46.396
<v Speaker 9>Murder of William Logan guilty, and it was like, oh

0:24:46.476 --> 0:24:53.316
<v Speaker 9>my god, it's happening. All these years they waited my

0:24:53.436 --> 0:24:58.876
<v Speaker 9>aunt and my uncle and my mom to hear that guilty,

0:24:59.836 --> 0:25:05.036
<v Speaker 9>and it was finally like a burden was lifted off

0:25:05.036 --> 0:25:10.236
<v Speaker 9>of them. Of course, their brother could never be replaced,

0:25:10.716 --> 0:25:15.716
<v Speaker 9>no matter, you know, but to see him actually have

0:25:15.836 --> 0:25:20.756
<v Speaker 9>to pay for what he did meant the world to them.

0:25:20.796 --> 0:25:35.356
<v Speaker 2>So, according to the Chicago Tribune, when the verdict was announced,

0:25:35.596 --> 0:25:39.756
<v Speaker 2>Harry Alamann didn't flinch. He simply blinked his eyes and

0:25:39.796 --> 0:25:44.356
<v Speaker 2>stared straight ahead. Harry was eventually sentenced to one hundred

0:25:44.356 --> 0:25:51.556
<v Speaker 2>to three hundred years in prison. He died behind bars

0:25:53.356 --> 0:25:57.036
<v Speaker 2>after the trial. As reporters clamored for quotes and comments,

0:25:57.236 --> 0:26:01.716
<v Speaker 2>one prosecutor proclaimed, quote, this will close the books on

0:26:01.756 --> 0:26:04.916
<v Speaker 2>an ugly era in Cook County. It's a great day

0:26:04.996 --> 0:26:17.516
<v Speaker 2>for American justice. The one person who was conspicuously absent

0:26:17.556 --> 0:26:22.276
<v Speaker 2>at that moment was Bob Cooley. After testifying, Bob flew

0:26:22.276 --> 0:26:28.236
<v Speaker 2>off to another undisclosed destination, vanishing once again even so

0:26:28.636 --> 0:26:32.476
<v Speaker 2>Bob's presence loomed large in the courtroom that day. After all,

0:26:32.676 --> 0:26:35.596
<v Speaker 2>he was the man who'd both started and finished this saga,

0:26:36.036 --> 0:26:38.556
<v Speaker 2>the fixer who bribed the judge in the first trial

0:26:38.876 --> 0:26:41.556
<v Speaker 2>and then exposed his own trickery at the second trial.

0:26:42.396 --> 0:26:45.236
<v Speaker 2>He was a rat or a hero, depending on who

0:26:45.276 --> 0:26:50.836
<v Speaker 2>you asked. But one thing was clear. Bob's work in

0:26:50.916 --> 0:26:55.196
<v Speaker 2>Chicago is now done. He hadn't expected to survive this process,

0:26:55.716 --> 0:26:58.516
<v Speaker 2>but he had. In fact, he was just fifty five

0:26:58.636 --> 0:27:02.796
<v Speaker 2>years old. So now what what kind of life could

0:27:02.836 --> 0:27:06.236
<v Speaker 2>he really expect? And had it all been worth it?

0:27:24.916 --> 0:27:30.676
<v Speaker 12>Caam driving down a desert highway here? And so you

0:27:30.756 --> 0:27:33.036
<v Speaker 12>got to make him turn left, turn.

0:27:33.796 --> 0:27:38.996
<v Speaker 4>In a mile. Well is.

0:27:41.116 --> 0:27:46.956
<v Speaker 2>Dusty and bleak out here. After almost a year of

0:27:46.996 --> 0:27:49.636
<v Speaker 2>talking to Bob on the phone, I went to see

0:27:49.716 --> 0:27:52.636
<v Speaker 2>him in the obscure little corner of the world where

0:27:52.676 --> 0:27:53.436
<v Speaker 2>he now lives.

0:27:55.636 --> 0:27:59.796
<v Speaker 8>You got to make a left up here. Oh, oh, yeah, somewhere.

0:27:59.996 --> 0:28:02.156
<v Speaker 8>I think I'm about to miss out here. It is here,

0:28:02.156 --> 0:28:06.996
<v Speaker 8>It is okay, Wow, it's.

0:28:06.876 --> 0:28:07.436
<v Speaker 12>Easy to miss.

0:28:08.916 --> 0:28:11.076
<v Speaker 2>Bob lives in a modest house at the edge of

0:28:11.076 --> 0:28:11.596
<v Speaker 2>the desert.

0:28:12.196 --> 0:28:12.396
<v Speaker 4>Here.

0:28:12.436 --> 0:28:15.196
<v Speaker 2>He has a small bedroom which he calls his cubby hole.

0:28:15.756 --> 0:28:18.836
<v Speaker 2>His bedroom floor is stacked with cylinders of pringles and

0:28:18.956 --> 0:28:21.956
<v Speaker 2>jugs of V eight vegetable juice that Bob buys in

0:28:22.076 --> 0:28:25.636
<v Speaker 2>bulk to save money. The place looks like what it is,

0:28:25.956 --> 0:28:26.556
<v Speaker 2>a hideout.

0:28:27.036 --> 0:28:29.596
<v Speaker 11>Hi are you Rosie?

0:28:31.276 --> 0:28:35.116
<v Speaker 2>Bob has a roommate, a woman named Rosie. When I visited,

0:28:35.316 --> 0:28:38.676
<v Speaker 2>she was wearing a house dress with brightly colored, psychedelic

0:28:38.716 --> 0:28:42.556
<v Speaker 2>looking flowers. She's actually the one who owns this house.

0:28:43.316 --> 0:28:45.756
<v Speaker 2>Bob told me that he's lived with her on and

0:28:45.796 --> 0:28:47.676
<v Speaker 2>off for roughly a decade.

0:28:48.076 --> 0:28:50.436
<v Speaker 4>She said, I'm pretty much of a recluse. She said,

0:28:50.476 --> 0:28:54.196
<v Speaker 4>I keep to myself or whatever. And I said, you know, well,

0:28:54.276 --> 0:28:56.036
<v Speaker 4>I think i'd like to move in. She had no

0:28:56.116 --> 0:28:57.116
<v Speaker 4>idea who I was.

0:28:57.956 --> 0:29:00.476
<v Speaker 2>Rosie told me that she knew the broad strokes of

0:29:00.516 --> 0:29:03.836
<v Speaker 2>Bob's life, but never asked about the details.

0:29:04.436 --> 0:29:05.156
<v Speaker 13>We don't talk.

0:29:06.916 --> 0:29:09.076
<v Speaker 2>Wait, how come you never talk your roommate.

0:29:10.236 --> 0:29:13.916
<v Speaker 13>He lives his life. I live my life minus with

0:29:14.036 --> 0:29:17.356
<v Speaker 13>the dogs back there, and his is in here, so

0:29:18.476 --> 0:29:21.556
<v Speaker 13>that's it. He comes in the kitchen. I'm not in

0:29:21.636 --> 0:29:24.196
<v Speaker 13>the kitchen. He does all the cooking. I don't do

0:29:24.316 --> 0:29:24.996
<v Speaker 13>any cooking.

0:29:25.396 --> 0:29:26.516
<v Speaker 11>But aren't you curious?

0:29:26.556 --> 0:29:29.036
<v Speaker 2>Like he used to work for the MOB as a lawyer.

0:29:29.076 --> 0:29:30.476
<v Speaker 12>Does that make you want to know more?

0:29:30.636 --> 0:29:31.356
<v Speaker 10>No?

0:29:31.356 --> 0:29:34.836
<v Speaker 13>No, no, I don't.

0:29:35.956 --> 0:29:36.356
<v Speaker 10>That's me.

0:29:37.676 --> 0:29:39.756
<v Speaker 13>No, I don't need to know.

0:29:40.796 --> 0:29:44.476
<v Speaker 2>So in some ways, Rosie is the perfect housemate for Bob.

0:29:45.036 --> 0:29:48.436
<v Speaker 2>She doesn't pry, though I should point out they did,

0:29:48.516 --> 0:29:52.116
<v Speaker 2>in fact talk. They argued more or less constantly during

0:29:52.116 --> 0:29:54.796
<v Speaker 2>the time that I was there, not small things like

0:29:54.996 --> 0:29:57.996
<v Speaker 2>whether the living room needed dusting or how the pillows

0:29:57.996 --> 0:30:00.756
<v Speaker 2>were situated on the couch. Rosie told me that Bob

0:30:00.796 --> 0:30:01.596
<v Speaker 2>had messed them up.

0:30:01.996 --> 0:30:04.076
<v Speaker 4>I'm kind of embarrassed, though I hope he doesn't take

0:30:04.076 --> 0:30:04.676
<v Speaker 4>a picture of that.

0:30:05.196 --> 0:30:07.956
<v Speaker 13>Kidding, you're embarrassed, Give me a break.

0:30:11.596 --> 0:30:13.876
<v Speaker 12>You guys are a regular odd couple. I gotta tell.

0:30:13.756 --> 0:30:18.316
<v Speaker 13>You we are we if we would be married, I

0:30:18.396 --> 0:30:19.876
<v Speaker 13>polly killed him by now.

0:30:20.676 --> 0:30:21.956
<v Speaker 4>Just to get the insurance right.

0:30:22.476 --> 0:30:23.316
<v Speaker 10>Absolutely.

0:30:24.156 --> 0:30:26.876
<v Speaker 2>Eventually, I suggested that Bob and I get out of

0:30:26.876 --> 0:30:30.276
<v Speaker 2>the house get some space. So we hopped in my

0:30:30.316 --> 0:30:34.316
<v Speaker 2>rental car, and as we drove we chatted. He told

0:30:34.316 --> 0:30:36.556
<v Speaker 2>me how lonely he was in the years after he

0:30:36.596 --> 0:30:37.636
<v Speaker 2>first left Chicago.

0:30:38.036 --> 0:30:41.716
<v Speaker 4>As I'm driving around, I'm so jealous of people. Look,

0:30:41.836 --> 0:30:43.876
<v Speaker 4>I say, somebody with somebody in the car with them,

0:30:43.876 --> 0:30:46.876
<v Speaker 4>and I'm jealous. I mean, it's really hard to explain this.

0:30:47.516 --> 0:30:50.236
<v Speaker 14>I'm curious, like, here you are, You're in this town,

0:30:50.356 --> 0:30:52.876
<v Speaker 14>you're at this roommate live with you for eight years

0:30:52.916 --> 0:30:54.996
<v Speaker 14>and knows nothing about you've got. You said, you've got

0:30:55.076 --> 0:30:58.076
<v Speaker 14>no friends in this town. I mean, are you good

0:30:58.116 --> 0:30:58.316
<v Speaker 14>with that?

0:30:58.396 --> 0:30:59.276
<v Speaker 2>Are you at peace with that?

0:30:59.436 --> 0:31:01.756
<v Speaker 4>Or are you at the moment at the moment, yes,

0:31:01.916 --> 0:31:05.916
<v Speaker 4>you know no, As I said, what are you gonna?

0:31:05.956 --> 0:31:10.196
<v Speaker 4>What am I gonna do? I can't feel sorry for myself.

0:31:10.196 --> 0:31:14.596
<v Speaker 4>It's such a decision I made, and I suspected it

0:31:14.636 --> 0:31:18.196
<v Speaker 4>would be bad, never as bad as I'd got in

0:31:18.316 --> 0:31:20.756
<v Speaker 4>terms of, you know, fighting off the loneliness for a

0:31:20.756 --> 0:31:21.676
<v Speaker 4>long period of time.

0:31:22.796 --> 0:31:25.436
<v Speaker 2>As we continued driving, Bob pointed out a few of

0:31:25.436 --> 0:31:28.996
<v Speaker 2>the local landmarks, restaurants and the like that he told

0:31:28.996 --> 0:31:31.916
<v Speaker 2>me he was so strapped for cash that he hadn't

0:31:31.916 --> 0:31:35.276
<v Speaker 2>really dined out in years. Bob also showed me the

0:31:35.316 --> 0:31:38.636
<v Speaker 2>office of his lawyer, who recently helped him file for bankruptcy.

0:31:39.316 --> 0:31:41.276
<v Speaker 2>Bob told me that he'd been living off credit cards

0:31:41.276 --> 0:31:44.316
<v Speaker 2>for a while, but then the monthly payments got so

0:31:44.516 --> 0:31:46.796
<v Speaker 2>high that they ate up what little money he made

0:31:46.796 --> 0:31:52.156
<v Speaker 2>from Social Security, so declaring bankruptcy, it had been kind

0:31:52.196 --> 0:31:58.836
<v Speaker 2>of a relief over the past twenty five years. It

0:31:58.876 --> 0:32:01.916
<v Speaker 2>hasn't always been like this for Bob. He says that

0:32:01.956 --> 0:32:05.316
<v Speaker 2>when he initially left Chicago, he had some money in savings,

0:32:05.876 --> 0:32:09.676
<v Speaker 2>but Bob, ever the gambler, had made some risky bets

0:32:09.716 --> 0:32:12.716
<v Speaker 2>on the stock market and lost almost all of it.

0:32:13.716 --> 0:32:16.916
<v Speaker 2>Bob also co wrote a memoir with a journalist, Hillel Levin.

0:32:17.476 --> 0:32:20.476
<v Speaker 2>He made some money off the book, but that was

0:32:20.516 --> 0:32:23.716
<v Speaker 2>back in two thousand and four, and in the years

0:32:23.756 --> 0:32:29.436
<v Speaker 2>since then, he's been kind of scraping by. It's ironic really.

0:32:29.996 --> 0:32:33.196
<v Speaker 2>As a kid, Bob loathed the feeling of being poor.

0:32:33.756 --> 0:32:36.396
<v Speaker 2>Remember he hated that his mother had to comb the

0:32:36.436 --> 0:32:39.476
<v Speaker 2>shelves looking for dented cans so she could ask for

0:32:39.516 --> 0:32:43.916
<v Speaker 2>a discount. This, as much as anything, fueled his ambitions

0:32:43.956 --> 0:32:47.876
<v Speaker 2>to become wealthy, to become no tie gold chain Bob

0:32:48.396 --> 0:32:51.196
<v Speaker 2>a guy who walked around town with thousands of dollars

0:32:51.196 --> 0:32:57.276
<v Speaker 2>in his pockets and now here he was all these

0:32:57.396 --> 0:33:01.956
<v Speaker 2>years later, clipping coupons and buying V eight and pringles

0:33:01.996 --> 0:33:09.676
<v Speaker 2>in bulk to make his money. Last in the Hollywoo version,

0:33:09.716 --> 0:33:13.396
<v Speaker 2>of this story, the Bob character would likely have ended

0:33:13.476 --> 0:33:16.476
<v Speaker 2>up on the beach somewhere, maybe down in the Caymans,

0:33:17.156 --> 0:33:20.356
<v Speaker 2>but that's obviously not how it panned out for him.

0:33:20.796 --> 0:33:23.596
<v Speaker 2>And this got me thinking, what was the ending that

0:33:23.636 --> 0:33:28.436
<v Speaker 2>Bob deserved, you know, given everything that he'd done. I mean,

0:33:28.596 --> 0:33:32.316
<v Speaker 2>it was complicated. Bob was the guy who induced his

0:33:32.516 --> 0:33:36.436
<v Speaker 2>friend into taking a bribe that ruined him, a guy

0:33:36.436 --> 0:33:39.796
<v Speaker 2>who helped a murderer walk free, a guy who prevented

0:33:39.796 --> 0:33:43.876
<v Speaker 2>a female cop who'd been beaten from getting justice. But

0:33:44.516 --> 0:33:47.356
<v Speaker 2>this was also the guy who tried to right these wrongs.

0:33:47.956 --> 0:33:51.756
<v Speaker 2>He'd shown tremendous courage. Bob made a stand against the

0:33:51.796 --> 0:33:55.956
<v Speaker 2>mob and expose systematic corruption, and the impact he had

0:33:55.956 --> 0:34:00.476
<v Speaker 2>in the city of Chicago, it's indisputable. Here's Carol Marine,

0:34:00.556 --> 0:34:01.876
<v Speaker 2>the investigative journalist.

0:34:02.236 --> 0:34:05.676
<v Speaker 3>Bob was one of the most consequential witnesses that ever

0:34:05.756 --> 0:34:10.276
<v Speaker 3>took the stand in a federal organized crime trial or

0:34:10.556 --> 0:34:15.996
<v Speaker 3>probably almost any trial. He did this city and this

0:34:16.156 --> 0:34:21.956
<v Speaker 3>state a great service. He risked his life. He did

0:34:22.036 --> 0:34:26.676
<v Speaker 3>something that no one else had done. He penetrated the

0:34:26.716 --> 0:34:31.676
<v Speaker 3>first Ward and he took down its power brokers. It

0:34:31.756 --> 0:34:35.716
<v Speaker 3>was tremendously important in fighting public corruption.

0:34:36.596 --> 0:34:41.156
<v Speaker 2>Of course, Chicago still has its challenges. In twenty nineteen,

0:34:41.556 --> 0:34:45.396
<v Speaker 2>the city's longest serving aldermen, a guy named Ed Burke,

0:34:45.876 --> 0:34:50.556
<v Speaker 2>was indicted on fourteen counts of racketeering, extortion, and bribery.

0:34:51.516 --> 0:34:55.636
<v Speaker 2>Burke went down because another city alderman betrayed him. That

0:34:55.716 --> 0:34:58.516
<v Speaker 2>guy wore a wire for two years and made a

0:34:58.556 --> 0:35:03.356
<v Speaker 2>series of secret recordings. It was a long con. Seemed

0:35:03.396 --> 0:35:06.756
<v Speaker 2>like he took a page right out of Bob Cooley's playbook.

0:35:10.396 --> 0:35:13.876
<v Speaker 2>Operation Gambat may now seem like ancient history, something that

0:35:13.876 --> 0:35:17.196
<v Speaker 2>happened way back in the eighties, but the ripple effects

0:35:17.196 --> 0:35:20.756
<v Speaker 2>are still being felt to this day. There's this concept

0:35:20.796 --> 0:35:24.756
<v Speaker 2>in the law known as camouflaging bias. The idea is

0:35:24.876 --> 0:35:27.396
<v Speaker 2>a judge takes a bribe in one case and then

0:35:27.556 --> 0:35:30.916
<v Speaker 2>to avoid suspicion, punishes the hell out of other defendants

0:35:31.196 --> 0:35:33.716
<v Speaker 2>so it looks like the judge is tough on crime.

0:35:34.476 --> 0:35:38.036
<v Speaker 2>Then years later the defendant cries foul, says, hey, that

0:35:38.076 --> 0:35:40.996
<v Speaker 2>wasn't fair. I got hit with this huge sentence because

0:35:41.036 --> 0:35:44.996
<v Speaker 2>this corrupt judge was covering his tracks. And that's what's

0:35:45.036 --> 0:35:49.996
<v Speaker 2>happening in Chicago right now. Prisoners arguing that they too

0:35:50.156 --> 0:35:54.076
<v Speaker 2>were victims of the corruption that Bob exposed, And so

0:35:54.636 --> 0:36:02.276
<v Speaker 2>the story goes on. Some members of Bob's family really

0:36:02.356 --> 0:36:05.596
<v Speaker 2>appreciate what he did for the city of Chicago. His

0:36:05.716 --> 0:36:09.036
<v Speaker 2>brother Joe, who was an assistant US attorney, told me

0:36:09.196 --> 0:36:12.156
<v Speaker 2>that he was proud of Bob's legacy, and his brother

0:36:12.236 --> 0:36:15.436
<v Speaker 2>Dennis told me he gradually came to respect what Bob

0:36:15.476 --> 0:36:18.636
<v Speaker 2>had done. But it's been trickier with some of Bob's

0:36:18.676 --> 0:36:19.476
<v Speaker 2>other siblings.

0:36:20.076 --> 0:36:23.316
<v Speaker 4>I mean, and I have a sister and another brother

0:36:24.196 --> 0:36:26.716
<v Speaker 4>who want nothing to do with me. They want absolutely

0:36:26.756 --> 0:36:29.396
<v Speaker 4>nothing to do with me. Why do you think that

0:36:29.516 --> 0:36:32.356
<v Speaker 4>is because they believe what they saw that I'm some

0:36:32.476 --> 0:36:35.236
<v Speaker 4>kind of a rat. I mean, why else would it be.

0:36:35.996 --> 0:36:38.876
<v Speaker 2>I spoke with both of the siblings Bob's referring to here,

0:36:39.316 --> 0:36:42.796
<v Speaker 2>Tim and Diane. Both of them conveyed to me in

0:36:42.916 --> 0:36:46.556
<v Speaker 2>so many words that they cared about Bob, but they'd

0:36:46.596 --> 0:36:49.636
<v Speaker 2>never really been close with him. That even as a kid,

0:36:49.916 --> 0:36:53.356
<v Speaker 2>Bob had been unscrupulous, hot headed, and full of himself.

0:36:54.076 --> 0:36:57.356
<v Speaker 2>I talked about this at length with Tim Cooley. If

0:36:57.356 --> 0:37:00.836
<v Speaker 2>you recall, Tim is the yoga instructor who lives in Vermont.

0:37:01.636 --> 0:37:02.156
<v Speaker 15>I don't know.

0:37:02.516 --> 0:37:03.676
<v Speaker 10>You know, why is Bob Bob?

0:37:03.956 --> 0:37:09.596
<v Speaker 15>You know I I've been thinking about it and and

0:37:09.636 --> 0:37:13.636
<v Speaker 15>this may sound weird, but I don't know if Bob

0:37:13.676 --> 0:37:17.796
<v Speaker 15>has ever felt loved. I've never known a loving relationship

0:37:17.796 --> 0:37:21.756
<v Speaker 15>that he's been in. Actually, you know, he's had a

0:37:21.756 --> 0:37:25.076
<v Speaker 15>lot of sex, I'm sure, but I don't think he's

0:37:25.116 --> 0:37:29.276
<v Speaker 15>ever been in love. He's never had a relationship that

0:37:29.356 --> 0:37:33.156
<v Speaker 15>I've ever been aware of, And so it's like he's

0:37:33.196 --> 0:37:39.076
<v Speaker 15>looking for he's looking to fill that lack in some

0:37:39.196 --> 0:37:39.756
<v Speaker 15>other ways.

0:37:40.396 --> 0:37:43.276
<v Speaker 2>Tim offered me a take on his brother that was

0:37:43.396 --> 0:37:47.836
<v Speaker 2>neither rat nor hero, but something else altogether.

0:37:48.356 --> 0:37:49.036
<v Speaker 10>I'm afraid that.

0:37:50.876 --> 0:37:53.876
<v Speaker 15>That what matters most of all is just that he's known,

0:37:55.796 --> 0:38:02.236
<v Speaker 15>that he's known, and the goodness is almost irrelevant. I'm

0:38:02.276 --> 0:38:08.476
<v Speaker 15>sorry to say. The most important thing is that, look,

0:38:08.516 --> 0:38:14.356
<v Speaker 15>I am a big man. Look I am somebody. I

0:38:14.356 --> 0:38:17.636
<v Speaker 15>can do really horrible things, I can do good things.

0:38:18.236 --> 0:38:18.916
<v Speaker 15>I'm somebody.

0:38:20.436 --> 0:38:23.716
<v Speaker 2>When I relayed all of this back to Bob, word

0:38:23.836 --> 0:38:28.116
<v Speaker 2>for word, to my great surprise, Bob shrugged his shoulders

0:38:28.196 --> 0:38:35.156
<v Speaker 2>and said he's right in a sense. In the year

0:38:35.156 --> 0:38:38.756
<v Speaker 2>that I spent talking with Bob, he was always upbeat

0:38:38.796 --> 0:38:42.236
<v Speaker 2>and quick to laugh. Part of this is just Bob's nature,

0:38:42.636 --> 0:38:44.676
<v Speaker 2>but I think he was also kind of selling me

0:38:44.756 --> 0:38:47.556
<v Speaker 2>on his story, as if to say, look at me,

0:38:48.036 --> 0:38:50.876
<v Speaker 2>I live quite a life, didn't I? And he had.

0:38:51.716 --> 0:38:54.996
<v Speaker 2>But when I visited Bob in person and saw his

0:38:55.076 --> 0:38:58.196
<v Speaker 2>cubby hole and the roommate who didn't really know him

0:38:58.516 --> 0:39:02.076
<v Speaker 2>or cared to know him, I got a different feeling entirely.

0:39:03.196 --> 0:39:07.316
<v Speaker 2>Bob's bravada was gone, and in its place was an

0:39:07.316 --> 0:39:11.676
<v Speaker 2>air of defeat and almost disbelief, as if he couldn't

0:39:11.716 --> 0:39:14.716
<v Speaker 2>quite fathom that this is how things had turned out.

0:39:16.276 --> 0:39:18.636
<v Speaker 2>I asked Bob if there was any part of him

0:39:18.636 --> 0:39:21.556
<v Speaker 2>that regretted what he'd done, if he could go back

0:39:21.596 --> 0:39:24.796
<v Speaker 2>in time, would he have done it differently? Not flipped

0:39:24.796 --> 0:39:25.156
<v Speaker 2>at all?

0:39:26.636 --> 0:39:31.276
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, I mean absolutely. The day I put on that

0:39:31.356 --> 0:39:36.436
<v Speaker 4>wire it was all over. I knew it was all over.

0:39:38.036 --> 0:39:39.996
<v Speaker 4>I knew that, you know, my life could never be,

0:39:40.196 --> 0:39:42.996
<v Speaker 4>But I never dreamed it would be as bad as God.

0:39:43.636 --> 0:39:46.196
<v Speaker 4>I'm no better rop than some of those beggars out

0:39:46.196 --> 0:39:50.596
<v Speaker 4>there in the street, and I'd better not even think

0:39:50.636 --> 0:39:52.876
<v Speaker 4>about it, because again, it is the way it is.

0:39:53.476 --> 0:39:55.836
<v Speaker 4>So I mean to say, I wish I could have

0:39:55.956 --> 0:39:57.196
<v Speaker 4>changed that are you kidding me.

0:39:57.356 --> 0:40:01.636
<v Speaker 12>I mean, I'm trying to understand how you think about

0:40:01.636 --> 0:40:03.756
<v Speaker 12>your own life. If the defining thing in your life

0:40:03.796 --> 0:40:05.076
<v Speaker 12>is the thing you wish you hadn't done.

0:40:05.836 --> 0:40:10.556
<v Speaker 4>You've seen my life now. Think about that. You've seen

0:40:10.636 --> 0:40:15.356
<v Speaker 4>my life now, and you can't understand how I wished

0:40:15.396 --> 0:40:18.636
<v Speaker 4>I hadn't done that. That makes no sense.

0:40:19.476 --> 0:40:22.636
<v Speaker 12>Well, I understand it. It's not that I don't understand it.

0:40:23.516 --> 0:40:24.036
<v Speaker 4>I just.

0:40:25.716 --> 0:40:27.236
<v Speaker 12>Trying to wrap my head around it, that's all.

0:40:27.356 --> 0:40:31.916
<v Speaker 4>But you know, again, I don't know. I'm just saying that.

0:40:31.956 --> 0:40:35.156
<v Speaker 4>There's no question in my mind. I'd be an idiot

0:40:35.196 --> 0:40:37.956
<v Speaker 4>to say, gee, I'm glad that I, you know, destroyed myself,

0:40:39.076 --> 0:40:42.036
<v Speaker 4>and that's what I wound up doing. I destroyed. Bob

0:40:42.156 --> 0:40:46.036
<v Speaker 4>Cooley is no longer. This is not Bob Cooley name

0:40:46.076 --> 0:40:49.356
<v Speaker 4>wise or even otherwise. What do you mean they left?

0:40:49.396 --> 0:40:52.756
<v Speaker 4>Bob Cooley was that person back there in Chicago that

0:40:52.876 --> 0:40:55.276
<v Speaker 4>everybody came to when they had trouble and was able

0:40:55.316 --> 0:40:57.756
<v Speaker 4>to help all kinds of people and be able to

0:40:57.756 --> 0:41:01.516
<v Speaker 4>do whatever he damned pleased, never worried about getting arrested

0:41:01.596 --> 0:41:04.676
<v Speaker 4>or getting parking tickets or anything whatever I wanted.

0:41:04.836 --> 0:41:05.756
<v Speaker 12>What is Bob Cooley.

0:41:05.796 --> 0:41:11.516
<v Speaker 4>Now just just to you know, somebody waiting to die.

0:41:12.516 --> 0:41:18.076
<v Speaker 4>That pretty much sums it all up right now at

0:41:18.076 --> 0:41:20.196
<v Speaker 4>this stage. I mean, they you kidding me? What is it?

0:41:20.316 --> 0:41:21.476
<v Speaker 4>He's nobody, he's nothing.

0:41:24.236 --> 0:41:27.596
<v Speaker 2>Hearing him talk like this, I had to wonder once

0:41:27.676 --> 0:41:31.436
<v Speaker 2>again why Bob had flipped in the first place. What

0:41:31.516 --> 0:41:35.156
<v Speaker 2>had he been hoping for. There were so many different theories,

0:41:35.316 --> 0:41:39.276
<v Speaker 2>and Bob himself kind of waffled on this question, offering

0:41:39.316 --> 0:41:43.356
<v Speaker 2>different explanations on different days. It was to clean up

0:41:43.396 --> 0:41:46.316
<v Speaker 2>the city, it was to heed the advice of his

0:41:46.476 --> 0:41:49.996
<v Speaker 2>dying father. He was to stand up to Pat Marcy,

0:41:50.156 --> 0:41:52.996
<v Speaker 2>who was a bully. And it's true Bob did not

0:41:53.196 --> 0:41:56.796
<v Speaker 2>like being pushed around. But my feeling about all of

0:41:56.836 --> 0:42:02.676
<v Speaker 2>these was yeah, maybe, but they seemed like partial explanations

0:42:02.956 --> 0:42:08.236
<v Speaker 2>at best. The theory I heard the most was that

0:42:08.356 --> 0:42:11.276
<v Speaker 2>Bob owed to the mob. That's what was in all

0:42:11.316 --> 0:42:15.116
<v Speaker 2>the papers at the time. But I don't really buy it.

0:42:15.596 --> 0:42:18.556
<v Speaker 2>I mean, think about the timeline. Bob flipped back in

0:42:18.636 --> 0:42:22.036
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty six, he fled town in nineteen eighty nine.

0:42:22.716 --> 0:42:26.396
<v Speaker 2>So put yourself in Bob's shoes if you were truly

0:42:26.436 --> 0:42:29.236
<v Speaker 2>worried about owing money to the mob, and you were

0:42:29.276 --> 0:42:31.916
<v Speaker 2>spooped that some goons were going to break your legs

0:42:32.036 --> 0:42:35.596
<v Speaker 2>were worse, Why would you flip and then stick around

0:42:35.676 --> 0:42:39.236
<v Speaker 2>town for the next three and a half years. You wouldn't.

0:42:41.076 --> 0:42:45.316
<v Speaker 2>It's true Bob was a gambler, and I think that

0:42:45.436 --> 0:42:48.836
<v Speaker 2>this does in fact explain what he did. I kept

0:42:48.876 --> 0:42:51.236
<v Speaker 2>thinking back to what Bob told me on the very

0:42:51.276 --> 0:42:54.396
<v Speaker 2>first day that we talked, that he'd been walking down

0:42:54.396 --> 0:42:57.556
<v Speaker 2>the street to get a Deli sandwich, he'd seen the

0:42:57.556 --> 0:43:02.836
<v Speaker 2>Prosecutor's office and just walked in on an impulse. And

0:43:02.956 --> 0:43:07.596
<v Speaker 2>now I could see it. Here's Bob the gambler, because

0:43:07.676 --> 0:43:10.596
<v Speaker 2>walking into that office was, in some ways the biggest

0:43:10.636 --> 0:43:14.356
<v Speaker 2>gamble of all. He was wagering his life. He was

0:43:14.396 --> 0:43:19.276
<v Speaker 2>betting that he could almost magically save himself and perhaps

0:43:19.636 --> 0:43:22.876
<v Speaker 2>the city of Chicago while he was at it. Not

0:43:22.956 --> 0:43:26.196
<v Speaker 2>a sensible bet, a real long shot, you might say,

0:43:26.876 --> 0:43:45.836
<v Speaker 2>which is probably exactly why he did it. One day,

0:43:45.916 --> 0:43:47.996
<v Speaker 2>toward the end of my visit with Bob, we had

0:43:48.076 --> 0:43:50.476
<v Speaker 2>lunch together at the little place where I was staying.

0:43:51.436 --> 0:43:54.156
<v Speaker 2>I ordered her some pizza, which we didn't finish, and

0:43:54.196 --> 0:43:56.836
<v Speaker 2>I was about to throw the leftover slices out when

0:43:56.876 --> 0:44:01.116
<v Speaker 2>Bob stopped me, no save those. He told me he

0:44:01.196 --> 0:44:02.756
<v Speaker 2>wanted to feed the wildlife.

0:44:03.196 --> 0:44:04.196
<v Speaker 12>Why do you like to do it?

0:44:04.796 --> 0:44:07.156
<v Speaker 4>Because I've been doing it all my life pretty much.

0:44:07.196 --> 0:44:09.436
<v Speaker 4>I like to feed the animals.

0:44:09.836 --> 0:44:10.076
<v Speaker 10>Why.

0:44:11.076 --> 0:44:14.636
<v Speaker 4>I'll be rewarded down the road for it.

0:44:14.636 --> 0:44:16.076
<v Speaker 12>It's always something for something.

0:44:16.196 --> 0:44:19.796
<v Speaker 4>I like you. I like animals. You know, I feel

0:44:19.796 --> 0:44:21.356
<v Speaker 4>bad when I see him out there. You know they

0:44:21.436 --> 0:44:24.996
<v Speaker 4>might be going hungry. It's always been my nature. I

0:44:25.156 --> 0:44:25.636
<v Speaker 4>just do it.

0:44:27.276 --> 0:44:29.636
<v Speaker 2>We took the scraps of pizza and drove over to

0:44:29.676 --> 0:44:32.956
<v Speaker 2>one of Bob's favorite spots. It was at the edge

0:44:32.956 --> 0:44:35.716
<v Speaker 2>of a parking lot next to a strip mall. He

0:44:35.796 --> 0:44:39.716
<v Speaker 2>came here often. This is kind of a random spot.

0:44:39.756 --> 0:44:40.756
<v Speaker 5>Why do you pick this spot?

0:44:40.796 --> 0:44:46.276
<v Speaker 4>We're like, we're at a over You'll see them all

0:44:46.316 --> 0:44:48.356
<v Speaker 4>over here over on the other side. There, they've got

0:44:48.356 --> 0:44:52.676
<v Speaker 4>a fast food restaurant, two fast food restaurants, and that's

0:44:52.676 --> 0:44:54.356
<v Speaker 4>where the birds seem to migrate.

0:44:58.156 --> 0:45:01.676
<v Speaker 2>I stood there and watched as the birds flocked around him,

0:45:01.716 --> 0:45:06.356
<v Speaker 2>swirling and chirping. For a moment, he seemed genuinely content.

0:45:09.156 --> 0:45:11.836
<v Speaker 2>The whole scene reminded me of how back when he

0:45:11.916 --> 0:45:14.916
<v Speaker 2>was still in Chicago, wearing a wire. He used to

0:45:14.916 --> 0:45:19.316
<v Speaker 2>feed the baby raccoons with no ulterior motives, just a

0:45:19.356 --> 0:45:24.556
<v Speaker 2>pure and simple act, a real rarity, because nothing in

0:45:24.636 --> 0:45:26.756
<v Speaker 2>Bob's life was ever simple.

0:45:38.036 --> 0:45:41.076
<v Speaker 12>Your herds are up there at the corner, looks like yeah.

0:45:40.916 --> 0:45:43.796
<v Speaker 4>No, they for some reason, they always fly away and

0:45:43.836 --> 0:45:45.716
<v Speaker 4>then they come back. But you'll get them cross the

0:45:45.716 --> 0:45:52.156
<v Speaker 4>way over here and they'll come back and get it.

0:45:55.516 --> 0:46:05.876
<v Speaker 4>The braver ones get fed the most. There's some of

0:46:05.956 --> 0:46:07.036
<v Speaker 4>them coming up above.

0:46:50.116 --> 0:46:53.556
<v Speaker 2>Deep Cover is produced by Jacob Smith and Amy Gaines

0:46:53.956 --> 0:46:58.556
<v Speaker 2>and edited by Karen Chakerji. Our senior editor is Jen Guera.

0:46:59.236 --> 0:47:02.596
<v Speaker 2>Original music and the deep Cover theme was composed by

0:47:02.676 --> 0:47:08.076
<v Speaker 2>Luis Garra, with performances by Luise Audrian Terrasas, Alan Fajardo,

0:47:08.396 --> 0:47:12.876
<v Speaker 2>Mi Longoria, and Jimmy Messer. Flawn Williams is our engineer.

0:47:13.276 --> 0:47:15.836
<v Speaker 2>Our art this season was drawn by Cheryl Cook and

0:47:15.916 --> 0:47:19.916
<v Speaker 2>designed by Sean Carney. Mia Lobel is our executive producer.

0:47:20.476 --> 0:47:25.316
<v Speaker 2>Special thanks to Heather Fain, John Schnarz, Carly Migliori, Maya Caning,

0:47:25.636 --> 0:47:30.996
<v Speaker 2>Christina Sullivan, Eric Sandler, Mary Beth Smith, Brant Haynes, Maggie Taylor,

0:47:31.276 --> 0:47:36.796
<v Speaker 2>Nicole Morano, Megan Larson, Morgan Ratner, Royston Deserve, Lucy Sullivan,

0:47:37.236 --> 0:47:43.276
<v Speaker 2>Edith Russello, Riley Sullivan, Jen Sanchez, Jason Gambrell, Martin Gonzalez,

0:47:43.636 --> 0:47:49.236
<v Speaker 2>and Jacob Weisberg. Additional special thanks to Jill Gillette, Travis Dunlap,

0:47:49.516 --> 0:47:55.116
<v Speaker 2>Maggie de Poy, Bill Hogan, David Grossman, Mike Shephard, Jim Wagner,

0:47:55.436 --> 0:48:01.516
<v Speaker 2>Denny Cherrillo, Lisa Chase Patterson, and Michael Deutsch. Also Christian McNally,

0:48:01.836 --> 0:48:07.356
<v Speaker 2>Isabel Vasquez, Jesse de Bartolomeo, Jane Miliotis, Sarah Kraditch, and

0:48:07.396 --> 0:48:53.556
<v Speaker 2>the National Archives at CHU Chicago. I'm Jake Halbert. If

0:48:53.596 --> 0:48:56.116
<v Speaker 2>you like this season of deep Cover, then you should

0:48:56.156 --> 0:48:59.436
<v Speaker 2>really check out our first season, The Drug Wars, which

0:48:59.516 --> 0:49:02.436
<v Speaker 2>tells the story of an FBI agent who goes under

0:49:02.436 --> 0:49:05.516
<v Speaker 2>cover with a biker gang and uncovers a series of

0:49:05.596 --> 0:49:08.556
<v Speaker 2>clues that leads to a war, I mean, a full

0:49:08.596 --> 0:49:14.076
<v Speaker 2>scale invasion. Also check out Pushkin's other true crime podcasts,

0:49:14.636 --> 0:49:18.556
<v Speaker 2>Lost Hills and Bad Women. These shows and more are

0:49:18.596 --> 0:49:23.476
<v Speaker 2>available ad free for Pushkin Plus subscribers. To find more

0:49:23.516 --> 0:49:29.516
<v Speaker 2>Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

0:49:29.756 --> 0:49:33.836
<v Speaker 2>wherever you listen to podcasts,